WEBVTT - Behind the Scenes Minis: Disease Pact 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:14.360 of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.000 and I'm Holly Frye. This week we talked about Carlos 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.000 Swan Finlay and yellow fever, and we talked a lot 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:25.720 about mosquitoes. Yeah. When I was doing the research on this, 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:32.000 a statement was made in one of the papers that 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.840 I just did a double take about. And I don't 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.160 I don't want to throw this author under a bus. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.559 So I'm just gonna say what the sentence was, and 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:46.920 not more detail about the paper. The sentence was, historians 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:51.120 have only recently acknowledged the role of disease in history. What? 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.440 And I was like, right, that was my response. What? 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.880 And the context of this was a military history paper, 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:05.080 and so I was like, do you mean maybe only 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:10.480 military historians specifically? Right, I'm like, hello, sir, have you 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:18.440 met Samuel Peeps? Right? So, even then, like I remember 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:25.120 in elementary school learning what a problem smallpox was during 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:33.319 the Revolutionary War, Like I remember multiple mentions of diseases 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:39.959 being deadlier than combat in a lot of yes wartime engagements, 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:45.440 Like I remember learning about how devastating disease was during 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.000 the Civil War. So I read this statement and I 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:52.160 was like, what are you talking about? Well, and even 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.840 before that, like I think about the discussions of the 0:01:54.880 --> 0:02:00.600 diseases that were introduced by European colonists into Norse Ryanica 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:06.080 that really really devastated a lot of indigenous communities. We 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.840 knew this isn't really yeah, none of this is new stuff, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:12.760 and so this sort of made me wonder, like, is 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.760 this person writing is what they are trying to express 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:22.480 that there has not been as much really really deep 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:31.560 detailed analysis of diseases role in wars right from medical 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:36.160 history or from military historians specifically, Like is this a 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:41.480 statement that if it were being read by military historians 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.200 would go Okay, I get it, I get what you're saying. 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:48.440 But since I more of a generalist, AM reading it 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.040 and I'm like, what are you talking about? It is? 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.239 Am I just coming from a totally different context than 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.720 the person who wrote that sentence, because the rest of 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.280 the article did not seem like they did not know 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.600 what they were talking about. Right, Listen, We're gonna blame 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.400 an editor there, Yeah, I say that, having you know, 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.680 been a copy editor, Sure, I'll take the blame whenever 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.840 I don't. But the thing is even that, right, Like 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.680 there have been discussions of like this military force was 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.080 significantly weakened by disease and that's why they were not 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.240 effective in this conflict. Right, So that seems weird unless 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.680 they're talking about a very specific like no one has 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.040 been able to run the hard numbers quantify like what 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:39.640 percentage of disadvantage or problem was created by these specifics. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:40.880 Like that's the only thing I can think of. But 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.320 that seems like such a general sentence. It's not talking 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.400 about that. Yeah, there there was a like footnote reference 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:53.000 to another paper that made it sound like military historians 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.360 specifically did not want to focus so much on disease 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.360 because focusing on the role of disease in war took 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.280 a lot of the human agency about it. So if 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.240 what you wanted to be writing about was battles and 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:12.600 weaponry and tactics, and really the major driver of the 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.600 course of the war was diseases, it's like the diseases 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.800 are stealing your thunder if your interest is on the 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:26.800 battles and the weapons and the maneuvers, well, I have 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.279 feelings they're not charitable. I definitely said what out loud 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.760 very much the way you said. What when I read 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:43.320 that sentence, Yeah, yeah, that's so odd. It was very 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:48.160 very weird. I'm not parsing this file. I'm like, yeah. 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.719 Something that was much more on the delightful end of 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:55.640 the spectrum to me anyway, is that some of Finlay's 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.960 papers about yellow fever had these illustrations of mosquito mouthparts. 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.640 And I do not love mosquitoes. I do not like 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:10.160 being bitten by mosquitoes. I don't like mosquito bites. I 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.080 don't like the number of diseases that people can get 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.480 from mosquitoes, many of which don't have treatments or cures 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.480 that are very effective. Right now, I do like their 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.000 mouths are cool. Oh yeah, they have parts of their 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:32.039 mouths that turn into a straw basically. Yeah. They don't 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.880 fly around with it like a straw all the time. 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:40.600 It's like a little velcrow thing, right with the proboscis unfurled. Yeah. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:42.200 And so when I saw that he had drawn these 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.480 little mosquito mouthparts, I was extremely excited about it. It 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.039 reminds me of when we talked about years ago Maria 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:54.599 Sibilia Media and her drawings of insects uh huh. Similarly, 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.520 like in that case it was about not biting people, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:03.240 but about collecting and whatnot. Yeah, but often same you 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.880 would see the fully unfurled straw apparatus and it was 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:11.480 pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Back when I used to write 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.320 for a website called how Stuff Works, I really enjoyed 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.200 all of the insect and iraqnid articles that I read 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:25.760 because they always had such interesting and cool anatomical features. 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.560 Beautiful like bees having all of these structures on their 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:33.279 bodies to hold pollen, including like sort of little pockets, 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.520 little pockets to fill up with their pollen as they 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:41.719 fly around. I love it. I love it. Get pollen pocket, 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.720 not to be an use of polypocket, no, no, yeah, 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:51.200 I have a My general fear of mosquitoes is more 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:56.560 about the cats, since they're a heartworm vector. Yeah, and 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.560 I will confess that I am not always amazing up 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:05.640 with the cats preventatives right right, because listen, we got 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:10.720 sassy girls at our house. Yeah yeah. We had a 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.280 discussion about this on the show at one point a 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.200 long time ago, and I don't even remember how it 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:20.040 came up. That was about heartworm prevention and cats. And 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.240 when I was living in like North Carolina and Georgia. 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.120 I had they were on heartworm prevention and a lot 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.119 of the places that I lived, But then I moved. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.720 One of the places that I moved, I had a 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:37.320 conversation with the vet that was about the risk of 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:42.080 heartworm in that area, yeah, versus the risk of the 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:46.600 preventive for the heartworm, right, which in that particular case, 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.000 it was like, there's there's not really a reason to 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.240 do this. There's there's not a major risk of heartworm here. 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.520 There would be more risk from the thing. And we 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.880 got an email from someone who was really upset because 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:06.400 I think they thought I had just decided based on vibes, 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.480 not that I'd had a thoughtful conversation with the veterinarian 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.960 about whether that was what they needed. Yeah. Yeah. Our 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.600 other thing, right, our ladies are always inside. They have 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.800 no exposure to dogs. We don't even have friends who 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.880 are dog people that are ever at the house. Yeah. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:26.680 I can't think of any of our friends that has 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.440 a dog right now that would be over on the regular. 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.800 So the risk is pretty low if we're a little slacky. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.719 Although I had a funny thing recently, gosh, it was 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:38.760 probably a month ago. We had everybody in for their 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.320 annual and they always asked like, are you keeping up 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:45.200 with And I'm like, I'm sorry, and they the vetech 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.280 that I talked to was like, you know what, probably 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.240 eighty five percent of our clients are really up to 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.600 date on it. I was like, well, that's a high number. Yeah. 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.920 We also have that problem of one of our cats 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:03.440 being extra robust and needing like the higher dose than Yeah. Yeah, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.800 we do a flee in tick prevention on hours even 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.080 though they never go outside because I go outside a lot. 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.800 Oh yeah, you're out in the woods having yeah, and 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.800 nature experiences. You know. If I can take a tick 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.120 prevention for myself, I would do that. Just put the 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.000 cat stuff on the back of your neck. And then 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.640 also because we live in a very old house in 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.640 an area that has woods and whatnot around it, occasionally 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.760 we do get mice inside and they can also bring 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:34.920 in yeah. Yeah, yeah, oh, I had not thought about 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.480 that for you. Yeah, it's a whole other, yeah, whole 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:43.280 other potential concern. Yeah. So, especially since Opal in particular 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.400 is she likes to find a mouse. We haven't seen 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.440 one in the house in quite a while, but she 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.320 likes she thinks they should be toys, and I try 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.880 to get them away from her anyway. To return to 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:03.800 Yellow to Yellow Few and Carlo Swan Finlay, we talked 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:08.959 about how a man named Juan Santos Fernandez had established 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:14.880 this institute, this research institute. He really wanted to find 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.920 the cause of yellow fever. And I think the impression 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:24.160 I get is that after Walter Reid came down and 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.080 confirmed what Finlay had been saying the whole time, Juan 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.360 Santos Fernandez was like really kicking himself. He was like, 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.640 I could have had this discovery on my list of achievements, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.560 and I don't because I totally dismissed this guy and 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:43.320 called him the mosquito Man, which launched my brain when 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.920 we were talking about it onto a whole different, like yeah, 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.720 cryptid trajectory of what a mosquito man would look like, 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.640 And I'm like, how would it compare to moth man? 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:54.880 Would people also think it was a sand hill cret? 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.560 Like I was literally down the road so far, I 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:03.600 was realing back here now I'm thinking about a human 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:09.360 sized person with the mosquito mouthparts. Yeah, honestly, is really cool. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:16.040 And his name is Captain Proboscis the brain is busy. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.080 So yeah, I'm glad I finally got to this episode 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.360 because it's been more than a decade since I've said 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.959 I want to talk about the Skuy some more. Yeah, 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.520 it's wild the way time passes. How dare it really does? 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:42.240 It really does? And we talked about Samuel Hartlib in 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.920 the Heart Lib Circle this week. Uh huh. I find 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.120 this whole concept fascinating. Yeah, that there are I mean, 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.439 this is a thing that always fascinates me. In everything 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.720 that we talk about, there are just, in a manner 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.600 of pattern recognition, people that pop up over and over 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.120 that get that are obviously next to points in history 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.000 where they knew a lot of people, influenced a lot 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:08.280 of people, et cetera. He's unique because he's that, but 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.480 there's not a whole lot of knowledge about him in 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.080 like you know, general history. You kind of have to 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.600 find the HEARTLB scholars to learn about him, and I 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.800 just think that's interesting. Yeah. One of the things that 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.800 I am always tickled by, but especially in this instance, 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.840 is how you know when there's not a lot of 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:34.720 ready documented information about somebody. Sometimes you can see the 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:36.880 vibe of when people are kind of filling in the 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.520 blanks or making some positions, or even kind of putting 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:45.160 their own opinion in the mix. Sure, which is I'm 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.120 not dogging any of those people, like you're trying to 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.240 make the narrative work. It's fine. But one of the 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:55.400 things that was interesting was that any of the times 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.680 when Heartlib was excluded from something, why the office of 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.679 a dres never happened, or why he was left out 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:07.960 of the Royal Society, and one especially with the Royal Society. 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:13.520 I saw one paper about it that kind of hinted like, well, 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.280 he was so tied to like, you know, the hyper 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:21.440 sort of almost puritan thing and so religious that the 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.760 Royal Society was like, yeah, I mean, we're Christians, but 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.640 you're you're a lot. But that doesn't seem to have 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.959 really been the thing, right when you look at it. 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.400 He wasn't. I mean, as we mentioned in the show, 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.439 he wasn't that he wasn't in the mix talking out 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.040 like any of these scientific concepts with a lot of people. 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.520 He wasn't trying to be part of their their meetings 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.679 or their little circle. He was just trying to like 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:52.120 be a steward of that information. Yeah, So I just 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:59.679 find that interesting he was more like a librarian than 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.480 a scientific researcher, and a lot of the other people 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:05.920 that were part of the founding of the Royal Society 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:11.160 were like doing hands on research of some sort. Yeah, 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.720 and it's at least from the quoted material in the episode, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.720 it seems like he not only was he not doing 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.160 some kind of hands on research, he also seems like 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.440 he wasn't really super in depth reading anybody else's stuff. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.880 He was more passing it around, like circulating it. Yeah, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.960 he was like a catalog librarian. Yeah. Yeah, he and 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:34.840 was like, oh, would you do you have a request 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:36.640 for that paper that so and so wrote? I have, 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.080 I'm making you a copy, that's my problem, and was 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.840 like making sure that people got those And because he 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:46.160 was publishing things, he clearly had access to, you know, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.520 print materials and could could make duplicates of things in 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.840 whatever way he was doing it. So, I mean, I 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.400 I feel like it just was like a It would 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.920 have been almost weird for him to have been, yeah, 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.480 a member when you view it through that lens, like, no, 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:04.360 you're you're yeah, you're cataloging things. Okay, we have to 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.640 talk about the pact because I'm obsessed with it. It's 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.480 so funny. It's sort of cute, sort of sweet. I 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.840 feel like they had a treehouse and they would go 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.440 up there and they would pull the ladder up after them. Yeah, 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.240 but what I find so what just I had fits 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.400 of giggles when I was reading about it because this 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:28.280 idea of like and it's our secret. I'm like, my, dudes, 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.560 everybody knows this is your life work, and this isn't 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.720 a secret, Like why did you put that clause in there? 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:40.560 Like is there some aspect of this I'm not grasping, 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.480 Like yeah, and we won't tell anyone. And I'm like, 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:49.440 you tell everybody all the time. I guess they're just 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.920 not saying. And we signed a document about it. I don't, right. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.160 And that's the other thing. If it's supposed to be 0:15:55.200 --> 0:16:01.960 a secret, you documented it. You kept that document forever. Yeah. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:06.840 I love it so much. It's so silly. Yeah, Tracy, 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.080 we're gonna make a podcast, but it's our secret. It's 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:15.920 gonna be a secret. This feels like like this feels 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:20.920 like something that would have happened between like me and 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.800 two other girls standing at the end of the hallway 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:30.040 in high school. We're gonna decide we're gonna form this 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:35.120 secret pact. Yeah, my mental picture of how this would 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.800 enact for me went even farther back than this. I'm like, 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.800 this happened on the four square core in second grade. Okay, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:47.120 we couldn't write in Latin then, so now or ever. 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.040 It made me laugh so hard. It made me laugh 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.120 so hard. I love the whole like there will be 0:16:53.160 --> 0:17:00.720 no secrets, it's gracious. I don't mean to mock. There's 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.119 an earnestness to it that is actually so charming. But 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.160 the part that like we're going to keep it secret 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.640 just I was like, but you're not. You write other 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:17.800 pamphlets about how important this work. Yeah, I love it. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.719 I love it, and I'm glad of it because you know, 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.520 he distributed a lot of information, listen do I I 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.520 don't agree with his concepts that like if we all 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.960 read the Bible more, we would be a better nation. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.840 You gotta have got to let people do their thing, 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.600 whatever religion they choose or don't choose. It's fine. I 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:43.560 also found the very funny the idea of like uniting 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:49.240 all of the Protestants into one like this is sort 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:54.040 of running a foul of the concept of the Protestant movement, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.720 the Protestant Reformation. Yeah, I mean, I do love the 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:02.000 idea of like, if everyone has universal education, we will 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.720 all understand each other better. Yeah, it will be a 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:11.640 more egalitarian and utopian community because everybody will get it. 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:13.960 But at this point in our lives that we're living 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.040 right now, it seems like even if you give people 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.800 the information, they may not digest it. They might willfully 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:25.000 misuse it to hurt other people. Yes, the worst, But 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.479 I love the idea. I love the hippie part of it, 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.280 where it's like, you, guys, we would all be cool 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.359 to each other if we all spoke Latin, if we 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:38.199 could all mean ancient Latin texts. Do you know what 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.119 was one of the hardest parts of this episode for me? 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:47.240 It's very silly John Durry, because you know, I want 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.280 to call him John Drury all the time for no reason. 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.840 I'm afraid I did at some point and neither of 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.040 us caught it. I don't think you did, because I 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.239 was listening for it because I knew I was so 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.520 predisposed to do so, So I don't think you did. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.320 But I feel like he lives on very lane right 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:11.080 in the theater where all the ghosts are. I really 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:16.000 Samuel Hartlib is kind of a precursor to me wanting 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:21.640 to talk about boil in his chemistry. So oh yeah coming, Yeah, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.280 I'm not sure when, but it is coming. Yeah, And 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.800 again I do love the idea of like a little 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:34.800 you know, intellectual correspondence group, but like that's not exclusive, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.120 and like anybody who wrote to him and was like, hey, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.000 I heard you have this thing like a broker of 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:45.600 great information. Terrific. Yeah, yeah, I have it right from 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.040 the source. Do you want to read that guy's paper. 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:52.480 I'll make you a copy. Absolutely terrific. I love your 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.959 noble efforts, even if I don't agree with all of it, 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.480 the concept is real good. I wonder what he would 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.280 make of the end. He might feel like he's been 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.120 put out of a job. He'd either be really into 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.520 it or really heartbroken. Well, or maybe it would be 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.360 his job. I think he would find things like Wikipedia 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.639 just spectacular. I was thinking more archive dot org and 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.480 probably but remember and he was in the contemporary thing, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.960 so it wasn't all about archives for him as much 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.879 as about sharing newly developing ideas. Like now his stuff 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.399 is in dot org, and I do love that the 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.840 University of Sheffield makes all of his papers available. Nice. 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.960 I had some tricky times with search, but I think 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.560 that's a user error thing and not of them thing. Uh, 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.280 but you can if you just want to kill a weekend. 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.880 I mean, there's thousands and thousands and thousands of documents. 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.840 You could not read them all unless you put aside time, 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.800 like a large chunk of your life to just become 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.399 a heart lip scholar. But it's it's very interesting if 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:01.920 you can get through the very clunky linguistic style, right. Sorry, Samuel, 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.639 and I don't mean to criticize, it's just hard to 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.960 speaking of chunks of time in your life. If you 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:13.000 have days off coming up, I hope they're stupendous. I 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.320 hope that you hang out and relax and do whatever 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.879 hippie or non hippie thing you want to do that 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:23.119 makes you feel rejuvenated and good about the world, and 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.679 that we are all kind to one another. If you 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.800 have to work or you are saddled with a lot 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.119 of obligations this weekend, I hope that those go super 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:34.920 duper smoothly and that they all wrap up a little 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.520 faster than you're expecting, so you get some time back 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:42.200 to do whatever you want. Eat a cupcake sounds great. 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:44.600 We will be right back here on Monday with a 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.040 new episode. We will also be here tomorrow with a 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:55.720 classic Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:00.000 of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.239 Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:03.959 favorite shows.