1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. This week we talked about Carlos 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Swan Finlay and yellow fever, and we talked a lot 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: about mosquitoes. Yeah. When I was doing the research on this, 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: a statement was made in one of the papers that 7 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: I just did a double take about. And I don't 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to throw this author under a bus. 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna say what the sentence was, and 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: not more detail about the paper. The sentence was, historians 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: have only recently acknowledged the role of disease in history. What? 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: And I was like, right, that was my response. What? 13 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: And the context of this was a military history paper, 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: and so I was like, do you mean maybe only 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: military historians specifically? Right, I'm like, hello, sir, have you 16 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: met Samuel Peeps? Right? So, even then, like I remember 17 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: in elementary school learning what a problem smallpox was during 18 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War, Like I remember multiple mentions of diseases 19 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: being deadlier than combat in a lot of yes wartime engagements, 20 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: Like I remember learning about how devastating disease was during 21 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: the Civil War. So I read this statement and I 22 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: was like, what are you talking about? Well, and even 23 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: before that, like I think about the discussions of the 24 00:01:54,880 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: diseases that were introduced by European colonists into Norse Ryanica 25 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: that really really devastated a lot of indigenous communities. We 26 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: knew this isn't really yeah, none of this is new stuff, 27 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: and so this sort of made me wonder, like, is 28 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: this person writing is what they are trying to express 29 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: that there has not been as much really really deep 30 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: detailed analysis of diseases role in wars right from medical 31 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: history or from military historians specifically, Like is this a 32 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: statement that if it were being read by military historians 33 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: would go Okay, I get it, I get what you're saying. 34 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: But since I more of a generalist, AM reading it 35 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: and I'm like, what are you talking about? It is? 36 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: Am I just coming from a totally different context than 37 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: the person who wrote that sentence, because the rest of 38 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: the article did not seem like they did not know 39 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: what they were talking about. Right, Listen, We're gonna blame 40 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: an editor there, Yeah, I say that, having you know, 41 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: been a copy editor, Sure, I'll take the blame whenever 42 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: I don't. But the thing is even that, right, Like 43 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: there have been discussions of like this military force was 44 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: significantly weakened by disease and that's why they were not 45 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: effective in this conflict. Right, So that seems weird unless 46 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: they're talking about a very specific like no one has 47 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: been able to run the hard numbers quantify like what 48 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: percentage of disadvantage or problem was created by these specifics. 49 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: Like that's the only thing I can think of. But 50 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: that seems like such a general sentence. It's not talking 51 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, there there was a like footnote reference 52 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: to another paper that made it sound like military historians 53 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: specifically did not want to focus so much on disease 54 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: because focusing on the role of disease in war took 55 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the human agency about it. So if 56 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: what you wanted to be writing about was battles and 57 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: weaponry and tactics, and really the major driver of the 58 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: course of the war was diseases, it's like the diseases 59 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: are stealing your thunder if your interest is on the 60 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: battles and the weapons and the maneuvers, well, I have 61 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: feelings they're not charitable. I definitely said what out loud 62 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: very much the way you said. What when I read 63 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: that sentence, Yeah, yeah, that's so odd. It was very 64 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: very weird. I'm not parsing this file. I'm like, yeah. 65 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: Something that was much more on the delightful end of 66 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: the spectrum to me anyway, is that some of Finlay's 67 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: papers about yellow fever had these illustrations of mosquito mouthparts. 68 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: And I do not love mosquitoes. I do not like 69 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: being bitten by mosquitoes. I don't like mosquito bites. I 70 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: don't like the number of diseases that people can get 71 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: from mosquitoes, many of which don't have treatments or cures 72 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: that are very effective. Right now, I do like their 73 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: mouths are cool. Oh yeah, they have parts of their 74 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: mouths that turn into a straw basically. Yeah. They don't 75 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: fly around with it like a straw all the time. 76 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: It's like a little velcrow thing, right with the proboscis unfurled. Yeah. 77 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: And so when I saw that he had drawn these 78 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: little mosquito mouthparts, I was extremely excited about it. It 79 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: reminds me of when we talked about years ago Maria 80 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: Sibilia Media and her drawings of insects uh huh. Similarly, 81 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: like in that case it was about not biting people, 82 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: but about collecting and whatnot. Yeah, but often same you 83 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: would see the fully unfurled straw apparatus and it was 84 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Back when I used to write 85 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: for a website called how Stuff Works, I really enjoyed 86 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: all of the insect and iraqnid articles that I read 87 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: because they always had such interesting and cool anatomical features. 88 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: Beautiful like bees having all of these structures on their 89 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: bodies to hold pollen, including like sort of little pockets, 90 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: little pockets to fill up with their pollen as they 91 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: fly around. I love it. I love it. Get pollen pocket, 92 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: not to be an use of polypocket, no, no, yeah, 93 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: I have a My general fear of mosquitoes is more 94 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: about the cats, since they're a heartworm vector. Yeah, and 95 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: I will confess that I am not always amazing up 96 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: with the cats preventatives right right, because listen, we got 97 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: sassy girls at our house. Yeah yeah. We had a 98 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: discussion about this on the show at one point a 99 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: long time ago, and I don't even remember how it 100 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: came up. That was about heartworm prevention and cats. And 101 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: when I was living in like North Carolina and Georgia. 102 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: I had they were on heartworm prevention and a lot 103 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,119 Speaker 1: of the places that I lived, But then I moved. 104 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: One of the places that I moved, I had a 105 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: conversation with the vet that was about the risk of 106 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: heartworm in that area, yeah, versus the risk of the 107 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: preventive for the heartworm, right, which in that particular case, 108 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: it was like, there's there's not really a reason to 109 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: do this. There's there's not a major risk of heartworm here. 110 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: There would be more risk from the thing. And we 111 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: got an email from someone who was really upset because 112 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: I think they thought I had just decided based on vibes, 113 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: not that I'd had a thoughtful conversation with the veterinarian 114 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: about whether that was what they needed. Yeah. Yeah. Our 115 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: other thing, right, our ladies are always inside. They have 116 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: no exposure to dogs. We don't even have friends who 117 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: are dog people that are ever at the house. Yeah. 118 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: I can't think of any of our friends that has 119 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: a dog right now that would be over on the regular. 120 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: So the risk is pretty low if we're a little slacky. 121 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: Although I had a funny thing recently, gosh, it was 122 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: probably a month ago. We had everybody in for their 123 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: annual and they always asked like, are you keeping up 124 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: with And I'm like, I'm sorry, and they the vetech 125 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: that I talked to was like, you know what, probably 126 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: eighty five percent of our clients are really up to 127 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: date on it. I was like, well, that's a high number. Yeah. 128 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: We also have that problem of one of our cats 129 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: being extra robust and needing like the higher dose than Yeah. Yeah, 130 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: we do a flee in tick prevention on hours even 131 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: though they never go outside because I go outside a lot. 132 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're out in the woods having yeah, and 133 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: nature experiences. You know. If I can take a tick 134 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: prevention for myself, I would do that. Just put the 135 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: cat stuff on the back of your neck. And then 136 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: also because we live in a very old house in 137 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: an area that has woods and whatnot around it, occasionally 138 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: we do get mice inside and they can also bring 139 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: in yeah. Yeah, yeah, oh, I had not thought about 140 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: that for you. Yeah, it's a whole other, yeah, whole 141 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: other potential concern. Yeah. So, especially since Opal in particular 142 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: is she likes to find a mouse. We haven't seen 143 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: one in the house in quite a while, but she 144 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: likes she thinks they should be toys, and I try 145 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: to get them away from her anyway. To return to 146 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: Yellow to Yellow Few and Carlo Swan Finlay, we talked 147 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: about how a man named Juan Santos Fernandez had established 148 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: this institute, this research institute. He really wanted to find 149 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: the cause of yellow fever. And I think the impression 150 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: I get is that after Walter Reid came down and 151 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: confirmed what Finlay had been saying the whole time, Juan 152 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: Santos Fernandez was like really kicking himself. He was like, 153 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: I could have had this discovery on my list of achievements, 154 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: and I don't because I totally dismissed this guy and 155 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: called him the mosquito Man, which launched my brain when 156 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: we were talking about it onto a whole different, like yeah, 157 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: cryptid trajectory of what a mosquito man would look like, 158 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: And I'm like, how would it compare to moth man? 159 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: Would people also think it was a sand hill cret? 160 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: Like I was literally down the road so far, I 161 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: was realing back here now I'm thinking about a human 162 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: sized person with the mosquito mouthparts. Yeah, honestly, is really cool. 163 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: And his name is Captain Proboscis the brain is busy. 164 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm glad I finally got to this episode 165 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: because it's been more than a decade since I've said 166 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the Skuy some more. Yeah, 167 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: it's wild the way time passes. How dare it really does? 168 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: It really does? And we talked about Samuel Hartlib in 169 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: the Heart Lib Circle this week. Uh huh. I find 170 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: this whole concept fascinating. Yeah, that there are I mean, 171 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: this is a thing that always fascinates me. In everything 172 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: that we talk about, there are just, in a manner 173 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: of pattern recognition, people that pop up over and over 174 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: that get that are obviously next to points in history 175 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: where they knew a lot of people, influenced a lot 176 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: of people, et cetera. He's unique because he's that, but 177 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of knowledge about him in 178 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: like you know, general history. You kind of have to 179 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: find the HEARTLB scholars to learn about him, and I 180 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: just think that's interesting. Yeah. One of the things that 181 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: I am always tickled by, but especially in this instance, 182 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: is how you know when there's not a lot of 183 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: ready documented information about somebody. Sometimes you can see the 184 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: vibe of when people are kind of filling in the 185 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: blanks or making some positions, or even kind of putting 186 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: their own opinion in the mix. Sure, which is I'm 187 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: not dogging any of those people, like you're trying to 188 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: make the narrative work. It's fine. But one of the 189 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: things that was interesting was that any of the times 190 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: when Heartlib was excluded from something, why the office of 191 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: a dres never happened, or why he was left out 192 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: of the Royal Society, and one especially with the Royal Society. 193 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: I saw one paper about it that kind of hinted like, well, 194 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: he was so tied to like, you know, the hyper 195 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: sort of almost puritan thing and so religious that the 196 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: Royal Society was like, yeah, I mean, we're Christians, but 197 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: you're you're a lot. But that doesn't seem to have 198 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: really been the thing, right when you look at it. 199 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: He wasn't. I mean, as we mentioned in the show, 200 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: he wasn't that he wasn't in the mix talking out 201 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: like any of these scientific concepts with a lot of people. 202 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: He wasn't trying to be part of their their meetings 203 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: or their little circle. He was just trying to like 204 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: be a steward of that information. Yeah, So I just 205 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: find that interesting he was more like a librarian than 206 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: a scientific researcher, and a lot of the other people 207 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: that were part of the founding of the Royal Society 208 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: were like doing hands on research of some sort. Yeah, 209 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: and it's at least from the quoted material in the episode, 210 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: it seems like he not only was he not doing 211 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: some kind of hands on research, he also seems like 212 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: he wasn't really super in depth reading anybody else's stuff. 213 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: He was more passing it around, like circulating it. Yeah, 214 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: he was like a catalog librarian. Yeah. Yeah, he and 215 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: was like, oh, would you do you have a request 216 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: for that paper that so and so wrote? I have, 217 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: I'm making you a copy, that's my problem, and was 218 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: like making sure that people got those And because he 219 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: was publishing things, he clearly had access to, you know, 220 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: print materials and could could make duplicates of things in 221 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: whatever way he was doing it. So, I mean, I 222 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: I feel like it just was like a It would 223 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: have been almost weird for him to have been, yeah, 224 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: a member when you view it through that lens, like, no, 225 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: you're you're yeah, you're cataloging things. Okay, we have to 226 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: talk about the pact because I'm obsessed with it. It's 227 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: so funny. It's sort of cute, sort of sweet. I 228 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: feel like they had a treehouse and they would go 229 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: up there and they would pull the ladder up after them. Yeah, 230 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: but what I find so what just I had fits 231 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: of giggles when I was reading about it because this 232 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: idea of like and it's our secret. I'm like, my, dudes, 233 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: everybody knows this is your life work, and this isn't 234 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: a secret, Like why did you put that clause in there? 235 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: Like is there some aspect of this I'm not grasping, 236 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: Like yeah, and we won't tell anyone. And I'm like, 237 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: you tell everybody all the time. I guess they're just 238 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: not saying. And we signed a document about it. I don't, right. 239 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: And that's the other thing. If it's supposed to be 240 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: a secret, you documented it. You kept that document forever. Yeah. 241 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: I love it so much. It's so silly. Yeah, Tracy, 242 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna make a podcast, but it's our secret. It's 243 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: gonna be a secret. This feels like like this feels 244 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: like something that would have happened between like me and 245 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: two other girls standing at the end of the hallway 246 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: in high school. We're gonna decide we're gonna form this 247 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: secret pact. Yeah, my mental picture of how this would 248 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: enact for me went even farther back than this. I'm like, 249 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: this happened on the four square core in second grade. Okay, 250 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: we couldn't write in Latin then, so now or ever. 251 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: It made me laugh so hard. It made me laugh 252 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: so hard. I love the whole like there will be 253 00:16:53,160 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: no secrets, it's gracious. I don't mean to mock. There's 254 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: an earnestness to it that is actually so charming. But 255 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: the part that like we're going to keep it secret 256 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: just I was like, but you're not. You write other 257 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: pamphlets about how important this work. Yeah, I love it. 258 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 1: I love it, and I'm glad of it because you know, 259 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: he distributed a lot of information, listen do I I 260 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: don't agree with his concepts that like if we all 261 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: read the Bible more, we would be a better nation. 262 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: You gotta have got to let people do their thing, 263 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: whatever religion they choose or don't choose. It's fine. I 264 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: also found the very funny the idea of like uniting 265 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: all of the Protestants into one like this is sort 266 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: of running a foul of the concept of the Protestant movement, 267 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: the Protestant Reformation. Yeah, I mean, I do love the 268 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: idea of like, if everyone has universal education, we will 269 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: all understand each other better. Yeah, it will be a 270 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: more egalitarian and utopian community because everybody will get it. 271 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: But at this point in our lives that we're living 272 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: right now, it seems like even if you give people 273 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: the information, they may not digest it. They might willfully 274 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: misuse it to hurt other people. Yes, the worst, But 275 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 1: I love the idea. I love the hippie part of it, 276 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: where it's like, you, guys, we would all be cool 277 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: to each other if we all spoke Latin, if we 278 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: could all mean ancient Latin texts. Do you know what 279 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: was one of the hardest parts of this episode for me? 280 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: It's very silly John Durry, because you know, I want 281 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: to call him John Drury all the time for no reason. 282 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: I'm afraid I did at some point and neither of 283 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: us caught it. I don't think you did, because I 284 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,239 Speaker 1: was listening for it because I knew I was so 285 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: predisposed to do so, So I don't think you did. 286 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: But I feel like he lives on very lane right 287 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: in the theater where all the ghosts are. I really 288 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: Samuel Hartlib is kind of a precursor to me wanting 289 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: to talk about boil in his chemistry. So oh yeah coming, Yeah, 290 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure when, but it is coming. Yeah, And 291 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: again I do love the idea of like a little 292 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: you know, intellectual correspondence group, but like that's not exclusive, 293 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: and like anybody who wrote to him and was like, hey, 294 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: I heard you have this thing like a broker of 295 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: great information. Terrific. Yeah, yeah, I have it right from 296 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: the source. Do you want to read that guy's paper. 297 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: I'll make you a copy. Absolutely terrific. I love your 298 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 1: noble efforts, even if I don't agree with all of it, 299 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: the concept is real good. I wonder what he would 300 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: make of the end. He might feel like he's been 301 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: put out of a job. He'd either be really into 302 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: it or really heartbroken. Well, or maybe it would be 303 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: his job. I think he would find things like Wikipedia 304 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: just spectacular. I was thinking more archive dot org and 305 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: probably but remember and he was in the contemporary thing, 306 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: so it wasn't all about archives for him as much 307 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: as about sharing newly developing ideas. Like now his stuff 308 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: is in dot org, and I do love that the 309 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: University of Sheffield makes all of his papers available. Nice. 310 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: I had some tricky times with search, but I think 311 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: that's a user error thing and not of them thing. Uh, 312 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: but you can if you just want to kill a weekend. 313 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there's thousands and thousands and thousands of documents. 314 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: You could not read them all unless you put aside time, 315 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: like a large chunk of your life to just become 316 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: a heart lip scholar. But it's it's very interesting if 317 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: you can get through the very clunky linguistic style, right. Sorry, Samuel, 318 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: and I don't mean to criticize, it's just hard to 319 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: speaking of chunks of time in your life. If you 320 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: have days off coming up, I hope they're stupendous. I 321 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: hope that you hang out and relax and do whatever 322 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: hippie or non hippie thing you want to do that 323 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: makes you feel rejuvenated and good about the world, and 324 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: that we are all kind to one another. If you 325 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: have to work or you are saddled with a lot 326 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: of obligations this weekend, I hope that those go super 327 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: duper smoothly and that they all wrap up a little 328 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: faster than you're expecting, so you get some time back 329 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: to do whatever you want. Eat a cupcake sounds great. 330 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: We will be right back here on Monday with a 331 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: new episode. We will also be here tomorrow with a 332 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: classic Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production 333 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart 334 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,239 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 335 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 1: favorite shows.