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Speaker 1: This special edition Christmas Eve Show is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Welcome and

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Speaker 1: thanks for joining us for a special Christmas Eve edition

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Speaker 1: of Clay and Buck. Welcome in. We are taping a

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Speaker 1: very special edition of Clay and Buck. It is the

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Speaker 1: Christmas Eve Edition. I am in Israel right now. First

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Speaker 1: of all, Merry Christmas to all of you. I hope

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Speaker 1: you were having fabulous times with your friends and your family.

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Speaker 1: But I also know that a lot of you work

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Speaker 1: even on Christmas Eve, and so we wanted to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we had a special, original Christmas Eve edition

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Speaker 1: of the show, and we thought nothing better than to

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Speaker 1: do it from Israel, given that it is in fact

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Speaker 1: the Holy Land, and in particular, one of the first

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Speaker 1: things we did when we got to Israel was we

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Speaker 1: had a tour of the Old City of Jerusalem. That's

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Speaker 1: right in the center of Jerusalem. I know many of

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Speaker 1: you would love to go and visit at some point

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Speaker 1: in time, and if you have visited, then you will

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Speaker 1: understand maybe a little bit of what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: But we had a fabulous guide her name and she

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Speaker 1: is sitting with me here right now, Yaelle Goodman. She

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Speaker 1: took us all over the Old City of Jerusalem for

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Speaker 1: several hours, and we had such a great time that

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Speaker 1: we said, hey, what if we brought Yell on and

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Speaker 1: we asked her all sorts of questions so all of

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Speaker 1: you could understand the incredible knowledge and stories she had

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Speaker 1: to tell, so we could bring it to all of you.

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Speaker 1: So we bring in Yell Goodman first, and I'll get

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Speaker 1: into her background, but first, just for the bonafides, how

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Speaker 1: much work does it take to become a licensed tour

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Speaker 1: guide in Jerusalem? How does that come about? And how

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Speaker 1: did you come to have the job that you have

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Speaker 1: where you ended up with me and Ali and Andrew

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Speaker 1: our crew taking us around in the center of the

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Speaker 1: Old City of Jerusalem. How does that job exist? And

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Speaker 1: kind of give some sense of that if you could to.

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Speaker 2: Start, well, the tour guide course in Israel, it's a

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Speaker 2: rigorous course. It's a two year course. And in this

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Speaker 2: two year course you need to learn archaeology and history

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Speaker 2: and geology and everything it takes to just guide people

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Speaker 2: along all of Israel, not only Jerusalem. So it includes

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Speaker 2: six hundred hours academic hours and eighty tours. Eighty tours

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Speaker 2: where you tour all over Israel. From those eighty tours,

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Speaker 2: fourteen days are dedicated to Jerusalem. So basically what we

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Speaker 2: did in our three hour tour in Jerusalem was like

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Speaker 2: a condensed you know, fourteen days of what you study

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Speaker 2: the tour guide course in like three hours.

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Speaker 1: So there's so much to get into. But I couldn't

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Speaker 1: stop thinking about how close, regardless of what your religious

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Speaker 1: faith is, the holy sites for Christians, Jews, and Muslims

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Speaker 1: all are in the centrality of the Old City of Jerusalem.

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Speaker 1: For people who have not been before, the Western Wall,

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Speaker 1: the Sension I Guess of Muhammad for Muslims, and then

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Speaker 1: the Church of the Holy Separkle, the location of Jesus

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Speaker 1: christ crucifixion. All of these are within a short little

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Speaker 1: walking I mean you could almost since we got a

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Speaker 1: lot of football fans out there, you could almost basically

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Speaker 1: throw a football from one holy site to another holy

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Speaker 1: site of all three religions for people who have not

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Speaker 1: been Let's start with the Jewish faith. What is central

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Speaker 1: when you're going around on these tours for people who

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Speaker 1: have not been there before, what stands out that you

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Speaker 1: think they should know about? The sites that are important

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Speaker 1: to people of Jewish faith.

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Speaker 2: So I think for Jews, the most important site is

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Speaker 2: the Western Wall, but the Western Raw is a relic

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Speaker 2: of what the temple use.

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Speaker 1: What is the Western Walk. So a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have heard of that, and if they're not Jewish, they

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Speaker 1: may not know exactly what it is. What is the

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Speaker 1: Western Wall? You've seen many people have seen the pictures,

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Speaker 1: but kind of take us into why it's historically relevant.

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Speaker 2: So the Western Rale is basically a wall of the

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Speaker 2: fortress that was built around Temple Mount. Okay, let's go

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Speaker 2: back a little bit. Temple Mount is the mountain that

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Speaker 2: the temple was on top of it. That's why it's

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Speaker 2: called Temple Mount. Yes, I'm using my hands as if

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Speaker 2: people can see me, because exactly so, when you go

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Speaker 2: back to the source of Judaism, you go back to

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Speaker 2: that formative moment where Abraham was asked by God to

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Speaker 2: take his loved son Isaac and to bind him and

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Speaker 2: to almost sacrifice him. That that takes place on Mount Mariah,

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Speaker 2: which on top of that mountain the first temple was built.

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Speaker 2: So that is a focal point that goes back four

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Speaker 2: thousand years. King David chose Jerusalem as the capital and

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Speaker 2: his son King Solomon builds the first Temple on that

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Speaker 2: same location where Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac, and so the

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Speaker 2: first temple was built over there. That temple is destroyed

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Speaker 2: by the Babylonians and rebuilt again.

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Speaker 1: That first ti would have been built. How many thousands

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Speaker 1: of years ago? Roughly, I'm not expecting you to know

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Speaker 1: the exact year, but we're talking about like twenty five

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Speaker 1: hundred twenty seven hundre years.

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Speaker 2: We're talking. We're talking three thousand years ago. Yep, we're

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Speaker 2: talking one thousand years BCE. Yes, okay, roughly.

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Speaker 1: So the first temple is built.

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Speaker 2: The first temple is built, the first Temple is destroyed.

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Speaker 2: The people, the Israelites living in the area, the rebel

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Speaker 2: against the Babylonians, and the Babylonians come, they destroyed the

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Speaker 2: first Temple. We're talking about five eighty six BCE or BC.

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Speaker 2: We use before Common Era, before Christ.

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Speaker 1: We can do Christ exactly.

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Speaker 2: So let's go for BC exactly. And the Jews are

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Speaker 2: exiled to Babylon and they come back. Not all of

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Speaker 2: them come back. A lot of them stay in Babylon,

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Speaker 2: which becomes a thriving Jewish community. It's the first Jewish diaspora,

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Speaker 2: but the people come back build the Second Temple, and

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Speaker 2: that Second Temple was renovated by King Herod. King Herod

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Speaker 2: was an appointee of the Romans to come and control

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Speaker 2: in Israel because just open brackets. And this also will

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Speaker 2: eventually connected the story of Jesus, the geopolitics around Jesus,

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Speaker 2: because you know, everything is about politics in the end,

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Speaker 2: and the geography that you're in and what decisions different

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Speaker 2: leaders and rulers needed to make in the context of

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Speaker 2: the time. So Herod comes to rule because the Romans

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Speaker 2: understand that there's a unique group of people that lives

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Speaker 2: in the province of Judea, which is what they called

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Speaker 2: Israel at the time. They're monotheistic. They believe in one God,

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Speaker 2: which was absurd if you think about it two thousand

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Speaker 2: years ago, where everyone was idle worshippers and.

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Speaker 1: They believed of multiple gods, exactly multiple gods.

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Speaker 2: And so the Romans knew that if there would be

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Speaker 2: direct Roman rule, there would be uprising in the province

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Speaker 2: of Judea and there'll be friction between the Jews and

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Speaker 2: this direct Roman ruler, and so they needed someone from

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Speaker 2: their own so they choose King Herod, who's also a

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Speaker 2: Jew and who also was raised in Rome, so he

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Speaker 2: can also understand the Jewish traditions and not have any

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Speaker 2: friction with the Jews. But also, you know, do what

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Speaker 2: Rome does, build a Roman city, a car, a theater,

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Speaker 2: all the things that the Romans wanted to see in

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Speaker 2: order to spread their Roman culture. So Herod comes, he

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Speaker 2: sees this temple and he's like, thinking Roman style, Roman architecture.

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Speaker 2: He's like, what do you mean this isn't a temple.

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Speaker 2: So he shows them what a temple is. So basically,

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Speaker 2: if you can use this imagery, there's a mountain. It's

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Speaker 2: like he takes a shoe box, a rectangular shaped shoe box,

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Speaker 2: and dresses it over the mountain. That is the platform

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Speaker 2: upon which the temple was built. If you fly on

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Speaker 2: a helicopter, it's as big as twelve soccer field. Speaking

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Speaker 2: of sports analogies, it's a massive area because it's a

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Speaker 2: venue where quarter of a million Jews are coming three

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Speaker 2: times a year to worship, and so he made it.

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Speaker 2: So what is the Western Wall? Back to your original question,

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Speaker 2: I think when we were together in the Old City,

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Speaker 2: I said, every question you have, it will take me

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Speaker 2: time to answer, because everything is really complicated and complex

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Speaker 2: with the answers. And so the Western Wall basically is

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Speaker 2: a tiny little part of that massive fortification that was

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Speaker 2: built around Temple Mount and this is what's exposed of it,

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Speaker 2: and it's closest to where the Holy of Holies was.

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Speaker 1: And this would be the Western Wall how many thousands

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Speaker 1: of years ago?

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Speaker 2: Two thousand years ago, two thousand years ago.

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Speaker 1: It's important because everyone who's listening to us in America

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Speaker 1: something that's two hundred years old, people say, oh, my goodness,

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Speaker 1: can you believe that's so old. We're talking about two

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Speaker 1: thousand year old.

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Speaker 2: Wall, two thousand year old wall, which probably Jesus came

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Speaker 2: to visit when he came to Jerusalem. This is the wall.

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Speaker 2: People went to the wall after the Second Tible was destroyed.

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Speaker 2: If you were a Jew two thousand years ago, you

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Speaker 2: would go and worship on the temple. And how would

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Speaker 2: you worship? You had a mediator, You had the priests,

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Speaker 2: the Kohanim. They would take your sacrifice, sacrifice it for you.

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Speaker 2: So there was a mediator between man and God and

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Speaker 2: the holiest place for Jews. For going back to the

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Speaker 2: Jewish question, is the Holy of Holies is the temple itself, yes,

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Speaker 2: because only one person can go in once a year,

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Speaker 2: and that is the High Priest, and he goes in

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Speaker 2: the day of Atonement, you don't keep poor, and he

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Speaker 2: goes into the Holy of Holies. But when the Temple

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Speaker 2: was destroyed, we don't know exactly where the location is.

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Speaker 2: And according to Jewish tradition, only when the Messiah comes,

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Speaker 2: he will rebuild the temple. And that's when the dream

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Speaker 2: of Orthodox Jews. Not all Jews feel this way or

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Speaker 2: believe in this, but that that's when the Priest will

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Speaker 2: come back and everything will come back. So until then

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Speaker 2: we are prohibited as Jews to even go up to

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Speaker 2: Temple Mount.

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Speaker 1: So people as a result come and they worship at

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Speaker 1: the whaling at the Western War exactly and I almost

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Speaker 1: said whaling Wall because there is often crying exactly associated

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 2: Right, you go to the wall. You know, every Jew

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Speaker 2: I know has grandparents who dreamt to come to Jerusalem.

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Speaker 2: And you go to the wall, and there's just that moment,

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Speaker 2: even it doesn't matter how you feel or how religious

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Speaker 2: you are, it's just kind of like a moment and

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Speaker 2: it's a wall, right, you're there, It's just a wall,

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Speaker 2: but it brings out so much emotion because the amount

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Speaker 2: of energy and prayer that was brought into that wall.

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Speaker 2: You literally feel.

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Speaker 1: It, and so a lot of people put notes. People

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Speaker 1: may have seen or heard about this. It's separated. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. Women have one entrance, men have another. You're

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Speaker 1: not side by side. But anyone can approach the wall,

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Speaker 1: regardless of what their religious or ethnicity might be.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely anyone can go to the wall, anyone, any religious,

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Speaker 2: any ethnicity. Yes, there is a separation between men and

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Speaker 2: women because it's controlled by the Israeli Rabbinical Authority and

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Speaker 2: over there it's a separation between men and women. But

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Speaker 2: I find in my experience of everyone that I guided,

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Speaker 2: the Western Wall is really what moves people the most.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it was. It was incredibly profound. All right. When

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Speaker 1: we come back, I'm going to ask you about Christian

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Speaker 1: holy sites in the Old Center of Jerusalem, also Muslim

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Speaker 1: holy sites. We'll get into that because I think it's

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Speaker 1: super fascinating, in particular the Church of the Holy Sepulcher,

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Speaker 1: which is not easy to pronounce, but what exactly is

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Speaker 1: in there, and we will discuss that on this special

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Speaker 1: Christmas Eve. Addition of Clay and Buck. Okay, we're here

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Speaker 1: on the Christmas Eve edition. We hope all of you

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Speaker 1: are having fabulous Christmas Eves across the country and around

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Speaker 1: the world as listening to us. We are taping this

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Speaker 1: in Israel in December. Many of you know that I

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Speaker 1: made a trip along with a couple of members of

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Speaker 1: our show cast behind the scenes to Israel. We had

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Speaker 1: an incredible guest who took us all around the center

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Speaker 1: of Old Jerusalem. Her name is Yeal Goodman. When I

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Speaker 1: went to break, I was saying, I wanted you to

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Speaker 1: tell me about the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and

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Speaker 1: why it is a integral part of the Christian faith.

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Speaker 1: But I hadn't really thought about this before. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: should have. Based on how old the city is, there

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Speaker 1: is a constant interplay between maybe what the religious story

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Speaker 1: is and what the historic story is. And before we

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Speaker 1: even get to that, you can walk through the old

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Speaker 1: city of Jerusalem. I'm the siner here and there is

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Speaker 1: a pathway that they say is likely to have been

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Speaker 1: what Jesus walked on his way to being crucified. Based

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Speaker 1: on your study, how accurate do you think that pathway is?

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Speaker 1: And I want everybody to understand out there, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about Jesus as a historic figure right now, for that

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Speaker 1: pathway someone who was crucified, that you could follow the

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Speaker 1: history here was really kind of staggering to me. When

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Speaker 1: Christians come and you give them tours, what do they

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Speaker 1: ask about it? How accurate do you think that pathway

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Speaker 1: is for what Jesus may have walked when he was

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Speaker 1: being crucified.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a tough question to answer, only because I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking about the Christians out there who are listening to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: on Christmas, on Christmas Eve exactly, So no pressure. Firstly,

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Speaker 2: I'll say that a path that has been walked for

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Speaker 2: over a thousand years, that's where the sanctity is, doesn't

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Speaker 2: really matter if it happened or not, because you're right,

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Speaker 2: there is a question. We have the religion and we

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Speaker 2: have the facts and the history in the archaeology. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: they don't mesh together, not for Jews, not for Christians,

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Speaker 2: not for Muslims. So you know, as a guide in

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Speaker 2: Jerusalem who guides different demographics, some more religious, some less religious,

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Speaker 2: I try to really be sensitive to the audience with

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Speaker 2: my answer. What I can tell you most likely do

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Speaker 2: I know for sure.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean because it's that kind of staggering though,

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Speaker 1: sorry to cut you off, but the fact that something

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Speaker 1: that is so iconic and embedded in common thought, it

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Speaker 1: was really kind of staggering to me to think, we

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Speaker 1: know that there had to be a pathway, right, and

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Speaker 1: it's rare that there is something that is this old. Again,

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Speaker 1: I think this is important every one of the United States.

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Speaker 1: If a building is two hundred years old, you were like,

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Speaker 1: this is so old, can you believe we still have this.

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Speaker 1: We met a guy whose family has lived in the

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Speaker 1: same house in the center of Jerusalem for eight hundred years.

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Speaker 1: I mean the same house for eight hundred years. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I always think it's funny when you go

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Speaker 1: to England or something and there are bars, literal pubs

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Speaker 1: that are older than the United States of America. They've

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Speaker 1: been serving beer there longer than our country has existed.

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Speaker 1: So my point on this is, as we're walking through

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Speaker 1: the old city of Jerusalem, the idea that you could

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Speaker 1: be on the same sort of pathway in any way,

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Speaker 1: or you said earlier that Jesus himself could have walked

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Speaker 1: down to the Western Wall, it would have been there

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Speaker 1: when he was there, I think is really eye opening

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Speaker 1: for many people. So the idea that there is this

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Speaker 1: pathway and that it's right there and you can even see,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know for many Christians these are the

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Speaker 1: steps that Jesus would have walked. It's marked, you said,

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Speaker 1: for a thousand years people have been trying to figure

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Speaker 1: this out. And we'll get into the Church of the

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Speaker 1: Holy Sepulcher here in a moment, But that is the

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Speaker 1: idea of that church is that it's built right on

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Speaker 1: top of where they would have crucified everyone, and that's

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Speaker 1: where the walk ends exactly.

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Speaker 2: So the fourteen Stations of the Cross basically start in

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Speaker 2: the place that was believed a Pontius pilot came to

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Speaker 2: Jerusalem and that's where he sentenced Jesus to death. Yes,

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Speaker 2: totally makes sense because Herod built that building beforehand, and

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Speaker 2: every building that Herod built, the Roman governors would come

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Speaker 2: after him would live in those facilities because they were good,

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Speaker 2: they were big, they were fancy.

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Speaker 1: Because you're looking at the historic record and considering the

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Speaker 1: biblical record and trying to figure out how do we

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Speaker 1: determine the likely elements here, and it is as all

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Speaker 1: archaeology is oftentimes a best guest scenario, because the records

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Speaker 1: are only as good as the.

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Speaker 2: Records are exactly, and you have to like cross reference,

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Speaker 2: and you have to cross reference with archaeology and with

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Speaker 2: history and with a bunch of other stuff. So basically,

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Speaker 2: roughly the Fourteen Stations probably could be that path because

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Speaker 2: it does go from point A for a Pontius pilot

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Speaker 2: sentences Jesus to death, and to point B, which is

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Speaker 2: the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, and somewhere along the

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Speaker 2: way is the path that he won.

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Speaker 1: And there's only so many ways to go for that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a relatively small distance, right for people

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Speaker 1: who have not been to Jerusalem.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, And we know that topography doesn't change. The streets,

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Speaker 2: the alleys, the homes, they may change, but the topography

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Speaker 2: doesn't change.

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Speaker 1: In other words, if you've got to go uphill to

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Speaker 1: get something, there's only so many ways to.

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Speaker 2: Go up that head exactly. So we went uphill or

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Speaker 2: for example, the walls of Jerusalem. Jerusalem was a Jewish

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Speaker 2: city in the time that Jesus was executed. It was

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Speaker 2: controlled by the Romans politically, but religiously. It was a

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Speaker 2: Jewish city, so anything that had to do with the

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Speaker 2: death had to be done outside the city, and so

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Speaker 2: we were touring Jerusalem and the walls of the Ottoman

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Speaker 2: period of fifteen thirty nine. We remember when I stopped

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Speaker 2: in that place and I said, right now, we're exiting

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Speaker 2: the city in the time of Jesus. So at some

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Speaker 2: point Jesus walks outside the city in order to go

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Speaker 2: to the Golgotha, to the cavalry, which was outside of

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Speaker 2: the city. And it's very deceiving because today we're in

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Speaker 2: the city right the Church of the Holy Supplicker is

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Speaker 2: in the center of Jerusalem, but we need to imagine

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Speaker 2: it that it was outside of Jerusalem. And so we

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Speaker 2: get to the cavalry, which was kind of like the Golgoltha.

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Speaker 2: In Aramaic, Golgolet is a skull. So when people come

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Speaker 2: to this hill they see like a hill that looks

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Speaker 2: like a skull, which is associated with execution. This is

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Speaker 2: probably the place where they executed everyone, and right by

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Speaker 2: this side that they revealed. Archaeologically speaking, Second Temple burial,

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Speaker 2: it's a specific style that that's exactly how Jesus would

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Speaker 2: have buried two thousand years ago. We have style of

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Speaker 2: burials that change. First temple burial is different than second

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Speaker 2: Temple burial. And we saw we went into that place

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Speaker 2: in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and we saw

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Speaker 2: the caves where you can place the body, roll the

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Speaker 2: stone over and read the scriptures and really see that

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Speaker 2: it was there.

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Speaker 1: I want to come back to that moment. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go into the church there in Jerusalem. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that. We'll also talk it is the Christmas Eve edition.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about what exactly that church represents. I hope

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Speaker 1: many of you are enjoying this as much as we did.

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Speaker 1: I know you are. We'll be back and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem in

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Speaker 1: the next segment. Welcome back in special Christmas Eve edition

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Speaker 1: of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. I am

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Speaker 1: Clay Travis Live right now. As we are taping in Israel,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do Our producer Ali said, hey, we

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Speaker 1: should do a special Christmas Eve edition focused on the

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Speaker 1: fact that we're in Israel and it is christ No pressure, yeall, goodman,

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Speaker 1: who if you were just getting in your cars or

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Speaker 1: you're just starting to listen, was our tour guide for

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Speaker 1: the historic center of the Old Jerusalem City that we

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Speaker 1: took a tour with. We loved it and we said

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Speaker 1: we want you to come talk to our audience. Okay.

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Speaker 1: When we left, we were talking about the walk with

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Speaker 1: Jesus on the crucifixion and the fact that he ends

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Speaker 1: up at this place called Golgotha, which is the skull

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Speaker 1: like location. There is now a church there and will

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Speaker 1: work our way towards it. The idea that they have

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Speaker 1: in the church is that they have pinpointed the location

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Speaker 1: of the of the cross and then of where Jesus

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Speaker 1: dies inside of that during that crucifixion. Okay, And the

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Speaker 1: church is fascinating because there are multiple different orthodoxies, different

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Speaker 1: denominations basically that have different aspects of the church. Never

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Speaker 1: I've been in a lot of cathedrals, I've been in

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Speaker 1: a lot of churches in my life. I've never seen

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Speaker 1: one that has this many different orthodoxies this minute, this

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Speaker 1: many different methods that they're celebrating with. So let me

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Speaker 1: start with this. What are the different groups that are

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Speaker 1: represented inside of this church? And let me clarify for

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Speaker 1: people out there listening, this is like you have a

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church with a Baptist Church, with a with a

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Speaker 1: Seventh day Adventist Church, all these different denominations all rolled

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Speaker 1: into one. I've never seen anything like this. What are

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Speaker 1: the denominations and how in the world did this come

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Speaker 1: to be?

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Speaker 2: Well that we have five different denominations in the Church

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Speaker 2: of the Holy Sepulcher from three different continents. So it's insane. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you know, when I try to explain this to a

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Speaker 2: Jewish audience, I say, it's kind of like putting reform

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Speaker 2: Orthodox Conservatives and like Iraqi and Yema night Jews all

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Speaker 2: in one. Senegomay you never get along. Kind of like

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Speaker 2: what you said right now.

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Speaker 1: I mean the idea of having Catholics and Baptists in

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Speaker 1: the same building and each of them controlling a different

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Speaker 1: portion of the building is a way I think of

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Speaker 1: kind of illustrating that, right, absolutely, So I set you off.

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Speaker 1: But so what does it look like?

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Speaker 2: So what it looks like? Well, we have the Greek Orthodox,

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Speaker 2: uh huh. We have the Franciscans, who are the arm

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Speaker 2: of the Catholic the Pope. We have the Armenians, they

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Speaker 2: have a very big territory over there. The Coptics, which

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Speaker 2: are the Egyptian with the Egyptians and the Syrianic Orthodox,

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Speaker 2: which we were lucky to visit their church, the Aramaic

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Speaker 2: speaking Syrianic Church where they have that small room. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so every denomination according to the power that they had

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Speaker 2: at the time, how much real estate they have in

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Speaker 2: the church, what times of prayer they have, They're all

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Speaker 2: very much divided in how they pray. Now this is

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Speaker 2: also a unique example. How you have a Western church,

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Speaker 2: the Franciscans, okay, the Catholic Church together with all these

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Speaker 2: all the rest of our Eastern churches, so you have

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Speaker 2: like one Catholic and then the other Eastern churches. But also,

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Speaker 2: and I think we talked to this a lot about

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Speaker 2: on our tour, how like it's much harder to get

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Speaker 2: along within your family as opposed to outside. So like

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Speaker 2: Jews and Muslims and Christians kind of get along in

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Speaker 2: the old city, but like what happens inside that church,

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Speaker 2: So how they get along basically is something that the

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Speaker 2: Ottoman Empire decided in the middle of the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 2: It's called the status quo. They just realized they were

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Speaker 2: all fighting between them, between the churches, who has it

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Speaker 2: and this all started in the Church of Nativity in Bethlehem. Okay,

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Speaker 2: someone stole the star of that indicated where Jesus was born,

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Speaker 2: and a big war started from that war. Now, if

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Speaker 2: you zoom out, a lot of wars started because of religion.

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Speaker 2: You blame religion for a lot of wars, but really

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of undertow that went on years and

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Speaker 2: years beforehand, and that religious reason is kind of like

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Speaker 2: the match that sparks the war. But regardless, the Ottoman said, okay,

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Speaker 2: we can't do this anymore. We're going to go to

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Speaker 2: every church in the Holy Land in Israel, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to see where every denomination prays right now, So like,

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Speaker 2: for example, your Armenian, this is your area, this is

434
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: your time of prayer. This is where you have to clean.

435
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: And cleaning is an honor in the Church of the

436
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 2: Holy Supplicer. People don't fight who doesn't clean, people want

437
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 2: to clean it. And the Greek Orthodox and so kind

438
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: of like deciding what hours and what time and everything

439
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: that they wrote at the time that they wrote it

440
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 2: had to freeze in time. It's called the status quo.

441
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: So if you've been to Israel, you know the famous

442
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: story of the ladder outside the Church of the Holy

443
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: Suppliker that's still there since eighteen fifty six. And even

444
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 2: more crazy is this aluminium ladder between April and May

445
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 2: that they take out and just put it. It's dysfunctional.

446
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 2: People don't climb in it or fix something. It just

447
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 2: stands there because it's written in the Status Quo, which

448
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: shows you how things just need to freeze in order

449
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: to work. Just like, stop there, you know, you don't

450
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: move anymore. This is how it's going to work. And

451
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: it does, and it's unbelievable because the Church of the

452
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: Holy Supplicker is a microcosm of Jerusalem, the Old City.

453
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like a little area where you

454
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: can see where all these different denominations get along, or

455
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say get along, they parallel live, which is huge.

456
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: So inside of this church is they Basically, the Crusaders

457
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: came a thousand years after Jesus you can correct me.

458
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: I'm this a rough historical record, and they decided they

459
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: wanted to build a church on the scene basically of

460
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: the Crucifixion.

461
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: Well, the original church was built by Constantine Yea in

462
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 2: three hundred and thirty five.

463
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it was destroyed.

464
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: And it was destroyed in the church that we sized Crusader. Yes,

465
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: and it's a third of the size of the Byzantine

466
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 2: church that was built by Saint Helen Constantine's mom.

467
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: Which is crazy because it's a big church already, to

468
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: think about the size of the church that was built

469
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: that far back. Yes, So the initial church is built

470
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 1: three hundred some odd years after the crucifixion, and the

471
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: idea is that they have built this church on the

472
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: scene of the site of voyag Jeus Jesus was crucified exactly.

473
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 2: The chronology of archaeology of Christian sites in Israel is

474
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: similar in many different sites. The event that took place,

475
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: the early Christian community that preserved that place and remembered

476
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: where it was, and then think about it, from the

477
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 2: moment that Jesus is crucified until the Byzantine come into

478
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: power is three hundred years. That's a long time to

479
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: preserve a place. So Saint hell and Constantine Mom, she

480
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: comes and looks for those places, and that's where the

481
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 2: churches are built. Those churches are destroyed, unfortunately and rebuilt

482
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 2: by the Crusaders. So a lot of Christian sites in Israel,

483
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: this is their story, the event that took place, the

484
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: early Christian community that guarded these places, and their memory

485
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 2: from father to son, from father to son, and the

486
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 2: churches that were built afterwards over that, and so we

487
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 2: have a very good indication as to where these churches are,

488
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: combined with the archaeology around it.

489
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: Based on what you've seen, do you think that that

490
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: church is in the place where the and by the way,

491
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't just Jesus. There were lots of people being

492
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: crucified back in those days, which is important. Do you

493
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: think that they built it roughly where the crucifixions were

494
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: likely to have occurred?

495
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, I don't want to make any Protestants

496
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: upset because they have a different location in Jerusalem. It's

497
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: called the Garden Tomb. Yes, and so there are two

498
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: locations of where the crucifixion and resurrection took place. I listen,

499
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 2: ever since I'm ever, since I'm a little girl. My mother.

500
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: You know, my mother's from Oklahoma City. Let's open this up.

501
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: My mother's from Oklahoma City. She comes from a Roman

502
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: Catholic family, partly Native American. So you know, I'm like,

503
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: I have a mess of a background and my grandmother

504
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: was a devout Catholic woman and every time she would

505
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: come to Jerusalem, my mother would say, sugar Doll, take

506
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: her to the church. And like, I just knew one church,

507
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: and that was the Church of the Holy Supplicker. So

508
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: ever since I'm like seven years old, I walk my

509
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: grandma to the Church of the Holy Supplicker and I

510
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: see and so I have a very deep connection to

511
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: that church as a young Jewish girl in Jerusalem taking

512
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 2: her Catholic grandmother to this church. Yes, in my tour guide,

513
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 2: I realized the necessity of these different communities to have

514
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: different locations. You know, religion comes with logistics and you

515
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: got to take that under consideration. And the Church the

516
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: Garden Tomb is located outside the walls today and they

517
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: have their own story and their own area, and I

518
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: get it, but I definitely think that the Church of

519
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: the Holy Supplicker is the location.

520
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So we've talked about the historic sites for Jews

521
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: for Christians, also a historic site for Muslims, and I'm

522
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: not as familiar with this one. So you took us

523
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: and when we come back, we'll discuss that. To kind

524
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: of close out this hour about the Holy Land, on

525
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, Muslims don't allow you to walk into their

526
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: holy site. I didn't know this, but I'm going to

527
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: have you tell us about that. I will say, I

528
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: think this is important. Right now, it's not very crowded

529
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: in the Old City of Jerusalem, and you had to

530
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: as a tour guide come through COVID when nobody basically

531
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: is allowed. And you started running tours at that time,

532
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: and you said during our tour, there's very few Americans

533
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: over here, as in the wake of October seventh, there's

534
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: been very few people coming to Israel on and tourist

535
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: strips or anything else. How did our crowd compare to

536
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: a usual crowd and a pre COVID era in Jerusalem.

537
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: First of all, I have a lot of appreciation for

538
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: people who come at times like this right showing support

539
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: and solidarity, And it's very moving for us Israelis, especially

540
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: you know, the people who work with foreigners like you

541
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: all year and all of a sudden everybody disappeared. Yes,

542
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 2: So I find that you and Ali and the and

543
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: Andrew and the people that come over here are super engaged,

544
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: really want to be here, highly curious, and and it

545
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: just makes makes me want to give as much as

546
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: I can, you know, Like like on our tour, I

547
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: did a lot more than I planned because I saw

548
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: how engaged you were and how you wanted to be here,

549
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: and and to me, the old city always feels like

550
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: home and safe. I don't know how you felt.

551
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 1: I felt completely safe, But I understand people out there

552
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: are nervous about making trips to Israel. But having been

553
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: to Rome, which I loved, I was stunned. And in Florence,

554
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: which are swarmed, it's almost impossible to move in some

555
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: of those streets. I was stunned by how open it

556
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: felt in the Old City of Jerusalem right now, So

557
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a benefit.

558
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: It is, But like right before COVID, it was you

559
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: would you were not able to walk in the Old

560
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: City of Jerusalem. We walked so like openly up the

561
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: Via de la Rosa, think of like a concert, like

562
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: with like shoulder or shoulder tight. That's what it used

563
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: to be. Like, Yes, pre COVID, you can barely walk

564
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: around Jerusalem was it wasn't even fun to guide anymore.

565
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: Going to the Church of the Holy Supplocker, you'd wait

566
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: outside in line for ever, and there is no regulation

567
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: like there is in Rome to go into the Vatican. Yeah,

568
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: everybody comes whenever they want. We're in you know, we're

569
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: in the Middle East.

570
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: No, now, when we come back, we'll talk about being

571
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: in the Middle East. Jewish, Christian, Muslim, all within a

572
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: short distance of each other. It's Christmas Eve. We appreciate

573
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: you hanging out with us. Special edition of Clay and

574
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: Buck Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show Special

575
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve edition that we are taping in Israel with

576
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: our tour guide for the historic center of the Old

577
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: City of Jerusalem. Yeah, old goodman. I appreciate her being

578
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: with us. You heard that she's got all sorts of

579
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: family back in America. But you are born and raised

580
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: in Israel, born.

581
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: And raised in Jerusalem, I always say, born, raised in stayed.

582
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: And but you have a lot of family in Oklahoma.

583
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: I do, which is maybe not the overlap that people

584
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: would anticipate. So they maybe they're listening some of your

585
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: family in Oklahoma right now on Christmas Eve. We should

586
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: mention there's an amazing midnight Mass in the Church of

587
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: the Holy Sufflicker that takes place today as we are

588
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: talking to all of you, which is an incredible scene

589
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: and I imagine pretty incredible.

590
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: It's incredible. I mean for anyone. You know, we were

591
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: talking about the Western Wall, how everybody you want is

592
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: drawn to that. A lot of even Israelis go to

593
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: this mass Yes, it's special and it there's something about

594
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: that church that it just it just very moving.

595
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: I agree. I really really deeply appreciated being able to visit,

596
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: and you being our tour guide there. We mentioned that

597
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: you can walk in and see that whether you're a

598
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: Christian or a Jew. For those two holy sites, not

599
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: so for the Muslim site.

600
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: Well, the Muslims. Listen, the Muslims. If you're a Muslim,

601
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: you can go up, yeah, to El Aktsa. You know,

602
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: when I say Temple Mount, it's a very Jewish way

603
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 2: of referring to Temple Mount because it referred to temple

604
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: on the mountain. Yes, right, So when I talk about

605
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: it in a Muslim framework, I'll use the word el

606
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: Akta or dome of the rock. Now they can go

607
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: up whenever they want. Remember, we went up. We saw

608
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: where they can go up, and the police stopped us.

609
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: You can't go up from here. But there are times,

610
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: there are certain days and times that we can go

611
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: up from a different place. And the absurdity in Jerusalem

612
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: and things that people don't understand is that the area

613
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: of El Akta, of what we call Temple Mount, is

614
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: controlled by the Walf, which is the holy entity of

615
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: the Muslims, and they decide what times people can come

616
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: up and down to visit, and the people who implement

617
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: what the Muslim authority decides or the Israeli police. Oh

618
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: that's interesting, Okay, Now this is parallel living. This is

619
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: understanding that there is a holy site and that we

620
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: need to police it a little bit. And in order

621
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: to go up, you need to make sure. You know,

622
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: they have very strict rules as to what you're allowed

623
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: to bring. You're not allowed to bring any holy scriptures,

624
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: you're not allowed to wear any religious identifications like a

625
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: yamaka for a jew or a cross outside and a necklace.

626
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: And you're allowed to visit the sites. And it's an

627
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: incredible place to visit. You know, we can go on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,

628
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: but the hours are very specific, so it's much more

629
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: controlled up on El Aksa.

630
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: What happened there so according to the Muslim.

631
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: According to the Quran in chapter seventeen Sura seventeen, Muhammad

632
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: goes on a night journey, and on this night journey

633
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: he gets to a place called Ilakta. It doesn't say

634
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: where it is geographically, It just says il Akta, which

635
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: in a means the place that is furthest And from

636
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: this place he ascends to the heavens from this big

637
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: rock to have a negotiation with Allah. How many prayers

638
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: must a Muslim have a day? And he comes back

639
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: with the answer five. So the Golden Dome indicates the

640
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: location of that ascension and arrival back. So it's not

641
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: a mosque the Golden Dome. The Mosque of El Aksa

642
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: is like right right beside it. One was built in

643
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: six hundred and ninety one AD and the other one

644
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: was built in seven hundred and twenty eighty. The Father

645
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: built the first one, the Sun built the second one,

646
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: and that's how they established the third holiest place in

647
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: Islam in the world.

648
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: Having lived in Jerusalem your whole life, how and obviously

649
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: October seventh is fourteen months ago, continues to be incredibly

650
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: jarring and impactful for Jews around the world and many

651
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: people who are not Jewish. Are you optimistic or pessimistic?

652
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: About where we are right now in society on this

653
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve of twenty twenty four. When it comes to Jews, Muslims,

654
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: Christians being able to get along, especially in Jerusalem, which

655
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: is the central location for all three of those religions

656
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: in many ways.

657
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we do. I'm an optimist. I'm

658
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: always an optimist. My heart has been shattered and broken

659
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: over and over since October seventh because we're still in war.

660
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: It's still happening. Our heart broken October seventh. Then it

661
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: breaks every day and every soldier that is killed out

662
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: in battle or every casualty that we have. But life

663
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: in Jerusalem exists. We parallel live all the time, especially

664
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: in the Old City. So listen, it's not like Kumbayah.

665
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: Let's go to each other's houses and we'll have tea together.

666
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: It just doesn't work. But the parallel living exists. The

667
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: mutual interest to bring back tourism and income is a

668
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: mutual interest for everyone. Yes, you know, that's where I

669
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: get along with my Arab colleagues in the Old City

670
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: and make Christian colleagues in the Old City. We all

671
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: want the same thing. We want people to come. We

672
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 2: want people to visit and want we just want to

673
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: live our life on the day to day. People just

674
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: want to live their life. They want to wake up

675
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 2: in the morning, go to work, hug their kids goodbye,

676
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,959
Speaker 2: and come back. That's it. So if you're thinking about

677
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: the level of just the person to person walking in

678
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: the street buying some stuff, that is I'm very optimistic

679
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: about that. It's the radicals, it's the politics, it's the

680
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 2: higher up. That's where it doesn't.

681
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: Work for people out there listening to us right now

682
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: and again, it's Christmas Eve who maybe Christian, Jewish, Muslim,

683
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: whatever their religious faiths are. Maybe they're not very religious

684
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: at all, Maybe they don't have a particular religion that

685
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: they feel connected to. Why should they come to Jerusalem?

686
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: What do you think people of all different denomination and

687
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 1: walks of life would benefit from having spent your whole

688
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: life teaching so many people about the history of Jerusalem.

689
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 2: In my experience, anyone who came to Jerusalem would always

690
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: tell me I feel like I'm home. Rather you're religious,

691
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: whether you're not, you just come to Jerusalem and you

692
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 2: just get this feeling like something on the inside feels right.

693
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: What was the rest of your question?

694
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: I think so many, Like for instance, my grandparents came

695
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: to Jerusalem when I was maybe before I was born,

696
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: or when I was super young, and it was a

697
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: lifelong dream of theirs as evangelical Christians to come and

698
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: get to see Jerusalem. I think there are a lot

699
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: of people listening to us like that right now. I

700
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: think there are also Jews and Muslims who are listening

701
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: to us right now. I think there are people on

702
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: this Christmas Eve that don't have a particular religious faith.

703
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: My contention is that I think they would all benefit

704
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: by coming and seeing Jerusalem absolutely depending. Basically, no matter

705
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 1: what your background is.

706
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: It really doesn't matter to come and see a city

707
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: that has four thousand years of history, where you know

708
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: all the stories that we all grew up on. If

709
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: it's Abraham, if it's David, if it's Jesus, if it's Muhammad,

710
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: every religion, the basic of the story, even if you're

711
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: not religious, we all grew up on these on these

712
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: stories and what happened over here, and to see how

713
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: they're all intertwined and combined in one city. I mean,

714
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: Jerusalem sounds like a place that is separated. Like you

715
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: hear Jerusalem Christians Jews, Muslims. It sounds like separated. Jerusalem

716
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: is connective tissue. You feel connected. It has a connective

717
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: You go there and you feel connected to yourself, to

718
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: the ground, to the stories, to other people too. People

719
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 2: open up to you. You walk around, and every time

720
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 2: I guided people in Jerusalem, people would meet someone they

721
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: who from the past. In Jerusalem, there's like this insane

722
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: energy in Jerusalem that you just say to yourself, how

723
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: have I never been here before? I can't believe I

724
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: only came right now.

725
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: Courage all of you to come on this Christmas Eve.

726
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: I hope you were having fantastic times with your friends

727
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: and your family. Yell Goodman, Oklahoma based family born and raised.

728
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: However in Jerusalem, this was amazing. I appreciate the time.

729
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: I know people loved it. If by chance they're listening

730
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: and they want a tour, how could they find you?

731
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: Wow? Thank you?

732
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: Well.

733
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: I have a website with my running tours. It's run

734
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: JLM like Jerusalem dot com, so you can always reach

735
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 2: me at my website.

736
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: I bet we're gonna send some people to you. Run

737
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: jlml com.

738
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: And as I always you know, say to my family

739
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: in Oklahoma and Massachusetts, Shalom y'all. I always have a

740
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: sign of my mom that says Shalom y'all.

741
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: This has bit fantastic. It's the Christmas Eve edition of

742
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: Clay and Buck. We'll be back with more for all

743
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: of you in a bit