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Speaker 1: Octopuses known for being wiggly, famous for being eight wiggles, specifically,

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Speaker 1: nobody thinks much about them. So let's have some fun.

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Speaker 1: Let's find out why octopuses are secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey

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Speaker 1: they're folks. Welcome to a whole new podcast episode of

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Speaker 1: podcast All about why being Alive is more interesting than

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Speaker 1: people think it is. My name is Alex Schmidt, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not alone. I'm joined by my co host, Katie Golden. Katie,

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Speaker 1: what is your relationship to or opinion of octopuses?

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Speaker 2: I love them. I love them one of my favorite animals.

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Speaker 1: I take your time to think about it. I know,

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Speaker 1: I know it's difficult to figure out how you feel.

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Speaker 2: I love them. I love octopuses so much they are Yes,

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Speaker 2: I really think they are one of my favorite animals.

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Speaker 2: They're just so weird, so different from us, and yet

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Speaker 2: so cute and cuddly except for some of them, which

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Speaker 2: shouldn't touch because you'll die. But other than that, very

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Speaker 2: cute and cuddly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're really cool and generally they don't set off

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Speaker 1: my phobia of sea creatures oddly. Oh good, even though

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Speaker 1: they're pretty wiggly, like especially the biggest ones like the

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Speaker 1: giant Pacific octopus. It just seems like a megafauna in

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Speaker 1: a way where that doesn't bug me. Basically, all the

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Speaker 1: huge sea creatures except maybe giant squids. I know that

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Speaker 1: sounds similar, but basically all the huge sea creatures don't

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Speaker 1: really bug me very much.

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Speaker 2: Ah, you don't like a giant squid. It's they're huge eyeballs,

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Speaker 2: isn't it. Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That, and I feel like two of the tentacles are

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Speaker 1: just too long, you.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Like there's smaller ones, and then there's two that are

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Speaker 1: just way out there twice as long, like NBA player

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Speaker 1: arms or something, but in a bad way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those are ship grabbing r.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like it feels like I'm gonna lose

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Speaker 1: my crew. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: I do like octopuses more than I like squid. I

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Speaker 2: like squids as well, but octopuses they hold a special

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Speaker 2: place in my heart. They're cute, they're smart. They are

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Speaker 2: just kind of spluty, which I like. I like a

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Speaker 2: good splooty animal. Technically, a splute is sort of what

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Speaker 2: a squirrel or animal does when they like flatten out

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Speaker 2: on the pavement to kind of cool off. So it's

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Speaker 2: a kind of pancaking motion a splute. So an animal

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Speaker 2: to me that is somewhat gelatinous in either behavior or

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Speaker 2: actual physiology and just sort of splutes out when you

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Speaker 2: PLoP it on something. To me, that's a spluty animal.

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Speaker 2: Something like a a cat is a spluty animal, But

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Speaker 2: so is an octopus because it just kind of it

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Speaker 2: pank it flattens that it pancakes out. A long time ago,

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Speaker 2: I talked to Professor David Shiel, who's a professor of

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Speaker 2: marine biology at Alaska Pacific University, and he kept an

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Speaker 2: octopus in his living room for I think pretty much

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Speaker 2: the octopus's entire lifespan like about a year, and just

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Speaker 2: interacted with it daily, made friends with it and observed it.

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Speaker 2: And it was really interesting because it would do things

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Speaker 2: like play around. It seemed to do things like dream

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Speaker 2: because it would change color while it was sleeping into

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Speaker 2: sort of these patterns that are typically associated with hunting.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I would love to befriend and octopus, but

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Speaker 2: their lifespans are a little bit short, so it'd be

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Speaker 2: kind of heartbreaking. It'd be like getting a dog and

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Speaker 2: having it only last a year. Just heartrending.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that oddly leads us into the numbers

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Speaker 1: for this topic. Numbers and by the way, thank you

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Speaker 1: to Gannick ganame on the discord. Also to Jason Stash

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Speaker 1: and other folks too for selecting this topic as you

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Speaker 1: know supporters.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, that's like an action figure name like Jason Stash. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be in Fast and Furious two thousand.

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Speaker 1: See. That's why if you join the discord, you get

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Speaker 1: to give yourself a Lance Armstrong style name. Even though

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Speaker 1: that's a real guy. I just always think he has

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Speaker 1: a superhero name. Oddly, but yeah, okay.

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Speaker 2: The thing with Lance Armstrong is shouldn't be Lance leg Strong.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, I'm here all week. All right, numbers, Alex,

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Speaker 2: let's get get into them. Stop distracting us.

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Speaker 1: So every episode, our first fastening thing about the topic

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Speaker 1: is a quick set of fastening numbers and statistics. This

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Speaker 1: week that's in a segment called I Like to be

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Speaker 1: statistically on an octave plus fact podcast with you.

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Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That was submitted by Cleo Mancer teed it up for this.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Cleo Mancer having a name for this every week.

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Speaker 1: Please make a missillion making bed as possible. Submit through

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Speaker 1: that discord where Jason Stash hangs out or to sippod

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Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. The first number here is about

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Speaker 1: five years, because about five years is the usual total

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Speaker 1: lifespan of the giant Pacific species of octopus, and that's

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Speaker 1: one of the longest octopus life spans in the world.

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Speaker 1: As Katie was saying, these animals don't live a super

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Speaker 1: long time, even though they're very intelligent, very advanced as

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Speaker 1: an animal, and often very large.

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Speaker 2: It's so sad. I just you know, like, there is

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Speaker 2: that other documentary called My Octopus Teacher, and it's I

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Speaker 2: definitely recommend it. It's documentary, lovely film about a man

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Speaker 2: in an octopus. But yeah, it is one of those

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Speaker 2: things where it's it's very sad to us humans, I

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Speaker 2: think because we put a lot of stock in a

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Speaker 2: long lifespan, because you know, the idea of not having

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Speaker 2: a future or only living five years is very sad.

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Speaker 2: I wonder though, if that is too much of a

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Speaker 2: human perspective, like it octopus maybe doesn't have any concept

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Speaker 2: of longevity of tomorrow, so it's just kind of vibeing

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Speaker 2: in the moment and enjoying itself and uh yeah, so

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, are we going to get

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Speaker 2: into one of the interesting reasons why their live spans

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Speaker 2: are so short.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have one here also, as always, I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad you here, Katie, but especially for animal episodes. You

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Speaker 1: know so much. It's great and octopus. It seems like

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Speaker 1: with many octopus species they just sort of opt to

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Speaker 1: pass away after reproducing. One source this week is the

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Speaker 1: book The Soul of an Octopus by naturalist and writer

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Speaker 1: Si Montgomery, and she describes how in many species, the

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Speaker 1: female octopus just sort of dedicates the rest of their

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Speaker 1: life to tending and hatching eggs mm hm, because these

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Speaker 1: are mollusks that lay eggs. But the male also will

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Speaker 1: sort of just consider its life complete after mating. The

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Speaker 1: female will consider its life pretty complete. After the eggs hatch,

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Speaker 1: they'll both enter what's usually called senescence, which is a

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Speaker 1: life stage where they stop feeding and maintaining themselves, and

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Speaker 1: their reproductive hormone can also deactivate their bodies digestion. Another

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Speaker 1: number this week is more than three hundred species. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of different kinds of octopus, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of them just sort of stop living after they have

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Speaker 1: completed their evolutionary reproductive task. They say, okay, camel set.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's simil paris, which means when you reproduce once

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Speaker 2: and you die. And a lot of species of animals

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Speaker 2: do this. What's interesting about the female octopuses, Yes, for

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Speaker 2: so many species, she devotes so much of her energy

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Speaker 2: into caretaking for her offspring, which while she's alive, there

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Speaker 2: generally speaking, like egg sacs full of like little embryonic octopuses,

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Speaker 2: and she'll do things like she gives up on eating

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Speaker 2: and she just guards them and maintains a constant water

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Speaker 2: flow over them because a flow of water is important

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Speaker 2: to oxygenate the eggs, and she will pretty much just

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Speaker 2: start to die at that point because, like you said,

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Speaker 2: she's not eating, her hormones are kind of causing this senescence.

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Speaker 2: Researchers were able to increase the female's lifespan by doing

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Speaker 2: a surgery where they went into the brain. And the

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Speaker 2: brain is kind of interesting in the octopus because it's

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Speaker 2: we might talk about this more later, but it's not

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Speaker 2: as central as a human brain is, where it's like

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Speaker 2: kind of the tentacles even contain a lot of sort

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Speaker 2: of neural matter in it, but they essentially turned off

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Speaker 2: a gland that produces this reproductive hormone, and so when

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Speaker 2: the female then would because like even if females don't

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Speaker 2: breed necessarily, they still have this like short life span.

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Speaker 2: But when they surgically turned off that hormone, even after

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Speaker 2: the female laid eggs, it ignored the eggs completely and

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Speaker 2: kept eating and kept living. So, man, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if they've ever done a study to see how long

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Speaker 2: the female can live in that circumstance, but they've at

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Speaker 2: least established that it will continue eating and it can

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Speaker 2: increase its sort of lifespan after that. What's interesting is

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Speaker 2: that in theory, the male could continue living right, but

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, perhaps just due to the way in

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Speaker 2: which octopuses develop, you know, the male has a similarly

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Speaker 2: short lifespan as the female, and it ends up working

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Speaker 2: out in terms of the species maintaining a healthy population size.

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Speaker 1: That's just astounding. I feel like if you could talk

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Speaker 1: to an octopus as that scientist who turned off that land,

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Speaker 1: you would be like, I've essentially discovered immortality for you,

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Speaker 1: Like your body will wear out eventually, but what you

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Speaker 1: thought was the end of your life span, No, you

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Speaker 1: could live kind of forever by your standards. But what they.

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Speaker 2: Wanted, Like, that's the thing is, you know, is it

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Speaker 2: would it be more fulfilling for an octopus to live

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Speaker 2: out its short life doing all the things an octopus

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Speaker 2: does and caring for its young and reproducing, or would

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Speaker 2: it prefer a long life? But in terms of that

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Speaker 2: long life, it has no interest in taking care of

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Speaker 2: its offspring. So it's an interesting thing. We can't ask

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Speaker 2: an octopus what it wants though, until we learn octopus

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Speaker 2: sign language, which requires more arms than we have.

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Speaker 1: You just have to sign really fast, use your legs.

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Speaker 1: Our greatest soccer players will be recruited for the Octopus

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Speaker 1: Language project.

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Speaker 2: I just think of that squid Word episode where he's

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Speaker 2: doing interpretive dancing and all his tentacles are wiggling. I

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Speaker 2: know you have recently started getting into Spongebobs, so those.

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Speaker 1: Big news folks, I have not two episodes into SpongeBob SquarePants,

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Speaker 1: and it's it turns out it might be the best

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Speaker 1: show ever made. Very exciting. That's pretty good.

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Speaker 2: It all started when I was like, Alex, have you

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Speaker 2: heard of this square yellow man? He's very funny.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, he'd better live in a pineapple under

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Speaker 1: the sea. Otherwise I'm not interested. Also, it just turns

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Speaker 1: out canonically squid Word is an octopus, not a squid.

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Speaker 1: Is he From interviews with Stephen Hillenberg, Apparently it's more

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Speaker 1: fun to draw like an octopus bulbous head. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: if you look at like the show Bible or whatever

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Speaker 1: of SpongeBob, squid Word is an octopus.

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Speaker 2: But he's kind of the cross between an octopus and

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Speaker 2: a squid because he's got a couple of squid tentacles,

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of the long tentacles with the diamond

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Speaker 2: shaped ends is something that you'll see in a squid,

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Speaker 2: but not an octopus, whereas the rest of its tentacles,

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Speaker 2: I guess there're someone octopus like. So he's the unholy

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Speaker 2: mix between an octopus and a squid.

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Speaker 1: That's why he's so mad. Both societies have rejected him.

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Speaker 1: These octopuses. The whole show could just be how they

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Speaker 1: think and how we try to understand how they think.

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Speaker 1: It's honestly, this happened with a few topics on the

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Speaker 1: show before. Is this topic too interesting on its face? Right? Like,

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Speaker 1: octopuses are very popular, very cool, and this is such

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Speaker 1: an enormous and vast topic just the thinking could be

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Speaker 1: the whole show. We'll talk about that and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of mother stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they are amazing creatures, I think, especially

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Speaker 2: when you consider that they have evolved a brain and

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Speaker 2: cognition and eyes and all these things pretty much independently,

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Speaker 2: like parallel to our own development of a brain and eyes.

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Speaker 2: Because when our last common ancestor between like mammals and

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Speaker 2: octopuses and other fish was I think this little flatworm.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of a nematoade like flatworm that was just

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Speaker 2: very simple. It maybe had an eye spot, like a

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Speaker 2: couple of photosensitive cells, but in like a few nerves,

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Speaker 2: not really a brain. So all of these things like

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Speaker 2: eyes and brain involved completely parallel to our own development,

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Speaker 2: and so it's really fascinating that they exist in such

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Speaker 2: complexity at all.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, there's another number for that, which is five hundred

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Speaker 1: million years ago, because that's the minimum amount of time

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Speaker 1: ago when we diverged from octopuses evolutionarily octopuses in humans. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it was that thing. And I know all millions

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Speaker 1: of years evolution numbers just see them giant and hard

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Speaker 1: to follow it all. But for context, the extinction event

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Speaker 1: that killed the dinosaurs was about sixty five million years ago.

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Speaker 1: Five hundred million years ago is shortly after what's called

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Speaker 1: the cam And explosion, where life on Earth rapidly diversified,

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Speaker 1: So we're about as far away from octopuses as we

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Speaker 1: can be in terms of life evolution. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 1: also partly think they found this number by finding a

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Speaker 1: similarity between human serotonin receptors and octopus serotonin receptors. And

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Speaker 1: one study that helped find this was scientists taking two

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Speaker 1: octopuses and dosing them with MDMA, which is a drug

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Speaker 1: nicknamed ecstasy by the cool kids.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine an octopus at a rave, just tinnagles

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Speaker 2: going everywhere, flopping around.

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Speaker 1: We kind of don't have to imagine that. This study

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Speaker 1: it was JOHNS Hopkins University and Woodshole Oceanographic Institute, so

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Speaker 1: two very distinguished organizations. But they took two octopuses and

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Speaker 1: gave them each a Star Wars action figure. And then

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Speaker 1: octopuses are also not very social with each other in

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Speaker 1: a way we'll talk about more later, Like they don't

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Speaker 1: really live in groups very much or want to see

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Speaker 1: each other. Right, So they had these two octopuses, each

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Speaker 1: with their own action figure. They mostly played with their

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Speaker 1: action figure, and then when dosed with MDMA, the octopuses

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Speaker 1: got quote cozy with its pal wow and like kind

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Speaker 1: of cuddle a bit of stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting because, like I've heard this about MDMA and

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Speaker 2: other sort of psychedelics in humans, where someone who's maybe

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Speaker 2: a bigot or maybe sort of more buttoned up will

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Speaker 2: take it and being like, well, I just want to

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Speaker 2: love my fellow man. Man, I'm not saying that's exactly

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Speaker 2: the same thing that's happening with these octopuses, but that

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Speaker 2: there's some kind of neural expansion happening for the octopus

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Speaker 2: that is making it behaviorally act in a way that

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Speaker 2: is not, you know, typical, Like in nature, they will

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Speaker 2: occasionally interact with each other, but they just it's not

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Speaker 2: they're not a social species.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And another one of these huge differences. The next

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Speaker 1: number is nine, because that's the number of clusters of

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Speaker 1: neurons and the bodies of some octopuses, like Katie, as

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Speaker 1: you were saying, they have a distributed brain more or less, yes,

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Speaker 1: And that's takeaway number one. In some octopus species, consciousness

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Speaker 1: might be spread across the equivalent of nine brains, which

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Speaker 1: is one central brain and then a brain in each arm,

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Speaker 1: each of the eight arms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the arms almost move and act like individual organisms,

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Speaker 2: which is really weird. I mean, it'd be like having

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Speaker 2: sort of brains in your arms and your fingers just

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Speaker 2: kind of doing stuff and then reporting their behaviors back

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Speaker 2: to your brain to some extent, Right, we have a

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Speaker 2: cent nervous system, and we have a brain, but we

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Speaker 2: do actually have some distribution of brain activity throughout the body.

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Speaker 2: We have, you know, the spinal cord. We have actually

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Speaker 2: a lot of feedback between our gut and our brain.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons that like you can get

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Speaker 2: a tummy ache when you're anxious, or if you're getting

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Speaker 2: a stomach ache, you can get anxious. So that's kind

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Speaker 2: of this like feedback loop. Like you eat something a

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Speaker 2: little off, you can feel a little more anxious, or

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Speaker 2: if you're anxious, that can actually cause the stomach ache.

288
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Speaker 2: You have kind of a gut brain, which is weird,

289
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Speaker 2: and you have a lot of like sensory information that's

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Speaker 2: coming from the rest of your body. Obviously, it's just

291
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Speaker 2: not to the extent that octopuses probably experienced because octopuses

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Speaker 2: have so much activity in their tentacles compared to say,

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Speaker 2: like the distribution of neural activity and say a human body.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's occasionally enter headlines that claim octopuses or quote

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Speaker 1: unquote aliens, and it usually just means this very different evolution,

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Speaker 1: including having clusters of neurons that are brain like or

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Speaker 1: fully brains in each of their arms. That's just not

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Speaker 1: what we do as a different species humans. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: those those giant Pacific octopuses, the biggest kind, have about

300
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Speaker 1: five hundred million neurons, but it's spread across their body.

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Speaker 1: There are various studies of how this works. One found

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Speaker 1: that octopuses can do what they call arm up decision making,

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Speaker 1: where the arm senses something before the central brain and

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Speaker 1: initiates a motor response without consulting with the central brain.

305
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Speaker 3: Right, and arm.

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Speaker 1: Up is the opposite of what we call brain down

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Speaker 1: with humans and many of our other bodies up here

308
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Speaker 1: on land and in the sea, where there's just one

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Speaker 1: brain and related functions that are still at least somewhat

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Speaker 1: tied to one brain is kind of our structure and plan.

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Speaker 1: There's also there's a twenty twenty two study from the

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Speaker 1: University of Chicago. They looked at another active with species

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Speaker 1: and found that it's arm neurons linked to each other

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Speaker 1: through intramuscular nerve cords, which also suggests that the arm

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Speaker 1: neurons could connect to each other somewhat without necessarily going

316
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Speaker 1: through the central brain, Like there might even be some

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Speaker 1: ability to bypass it as needed, and this might just

318
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Speaker 1: be sort of more of an interconnected web than the

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Speaker 1: top down thing we're used.

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Speaker 2: To, which is amazing because when we think about our brain,

321
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Speaker 2: like we do a lot of things with our bodies

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Speaker 2: that feel like we're not thinking about right, But that's

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Speaker 2: just because we're not consciously aware of thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: Like when we're walking moving something, you're not really thinking

325
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Speaker 2: like now I move this leg and now I move

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Speaker 2: that leg. But that's just sort of your conscious experience.

327
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Speaker 2: Like you know, you have this feedback between your brain

328
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Speaker 2: and your leg muscles and your nerves. There's even sort

329
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Speaker 2: of this proprioception, like these cells that communicate position in

330
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Speaker 2: space to your brain. Wow, even if you're not consciously

331
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Speaker 2: aware of it, your brain is still doing the work.

332
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Speaker 2: And octopuses, it sounds like a lot of this stuff

333
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Speaker 2: doesn't actually need to go to their central brain. It

334
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Speaker 2: is just being processed in these sort of dispersed brains

335
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Speaker 2: throughout its body, which is really interesting.

336
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that could be the whole one hundred puckcasts.

337
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Speaker 1: That could be the whole thing. Like, how do they think?

338
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Speaker 1: How do they feel? Do they feel like they have

339
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Speaker 1: nine identities? Yet another number here is three, because it

340
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Speaker 1: turns out octopuses have three hearts. New Scientist magazine says

341
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Speaker 1: that there are two peripheral hearts that pump the octopus's

342
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Speaker 1: blood past their gills to pick up oxygen from water

343
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Speaker 1: through the gills, and then there's a third central heart

344
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Speaker 1: to circulate that oxygenated blood. So not only do they

345
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Speaker 1: not have brains structured the way we do, they also

346
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Speaker 1: don't have hearts structured the way we do. So either

347
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Speaker 1: the literal or figurative version of thinking and having a self,

348
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Speaker 1: octopuses just do it differently. It's a whole different setup.

349
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Speaker 1: It's why that internet headline framing you see sometimes of

350
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Speaker 1: aliens is like a little bit fair, because that's different. Man,

351
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Speaker 1: that's not from the earth where you ste up here

352
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Speaker 1: on the land.

353
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Speaker 2: No, I mean, I feel like that is an app thing.

354
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Speaker 2: I think I've even said that on my podcast that

355
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Speaker 2: if you want to know like the closest intelligent life

356
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Speaker 2: form we have on Earth that is kind of like

357
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Speaker 2: an alien I think would be an octopus because it's

358
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Speaker 2: very distant from us evolutionarily and it's smart. So like,

359
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Speaker 2: there are plenty of things that are extremely far from

360
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Speaker 2: us in terms of evolution, but are maybe a bacteria,

361
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Speaker 2: so they're not necessarily intelligent. But an octopus is intelligent,

362
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Speaker 2: it's complex, and it developed these things almost entirely into

363
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Speaker 2: evolutionary path which is really really interesting, and it's one

364
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Speaker 2: of the pieces of evidence that I use sort of

365
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Speaker 2: to argue that if there are planets that could support life,

366
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Speaker 2: and you have the necessary ingredients for life, I think

367
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Speaker 2: the chance that some form of intelligent life like an

368
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Speaker 2: octopus developing eyes pretty pretty good.

369
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Speaker 1: That makes sense. Yeah, I guess that on crabs, right,

370
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Speaker 1: there's the Earth evolution thing where stuff is crab shaped

371
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Speaker 1: over time.

372
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Speaker 2: Crabs, crabs, crabs, crabs of crabs. Yes, Nature loves the

373
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Speaker 2: shape of a crab, and things keep independently or in

374
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Speaker 2: parallel evolution evolving to be crab shaped, from spiders to

375
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Speaker 2: various crustacean species, various arthropods. Someday humans, maybe we're going

376
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: to go crab.

377
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Speaker 1: This is This is also why SpongeBob is such a

378
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: rich text, because the krusty krabs owner and first employee

379
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: are the two most effective shapes of being right, Like,

380
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool, that's a good business choice.

381
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Scott, I can hear the scuttle of mister

382
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Speaker 2: crabs right now, just in a loop in my little

383
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Speaker 2: length going and they have that like scuttling soundtrack. I

384
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Speaker 2: thought I'd never have to remember that again, but thank you, Alex.

385
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 2: Now now it's stuck in my head.

386
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Speaker 1: These next couple numbers are about terminology stuff. Ooh, because

387
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: it turns out there's two interesting things here with that

388
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: and with how humans speaking English talk about them. One

389
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Speaker 1: is that we'll probably use tentacles and arms pretty interchangeably

390
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: about octopuses. But I think arms is the less famous

391
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: name for these eight limbs that octopuses have. Yes, apparently,

392
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: tentacles are usually a longer, thinner limb with suckers only

393
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: near the end, and arms are the term for what

394
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 1: octopus limbs are, which are shorter and stronger and suckers

395
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: on most of the length of it. So a lot

396
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: of like scientists and others will call them arms.

397
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 2: Turns out yeah, because like squid have both arms and tentacles, right.

398
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the ones I don't like are the tentacles,

399
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: I think.

400
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is why squidword is a cross between an

401
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: octopus and a squid, because he's got a pair of

402
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: tentacles as well as arms.

403
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's usually depicted with six limbs, so you know,

404
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot going on there. Yeah.

405
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: Whereas octopuses, as their name implies, have eight arms.

406
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: And that brings us to the other terminology thing, because

407
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: the number for that is four, and four is the

408
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: number of different ways that modern English speakers say the

409
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: plural form of the word octopus. And as folks have heard,

410
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: I've pretty much stuck to octopuses.

411
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: That's me what I say, too good.

412
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: You know, you and me are great. And then there

413
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: are some people on the internet.

414
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: Word objectively the best saying octopuses.

415
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: It turns out, like as I was looking in this

416
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: topic learning about it, some people on the Internet are

417
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: militant about how to say the plural form of the

418
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: word octopus. And I don't want to emphasize how much

419
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: we should all be nice to each other with a

420
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: miniature takeaway number Two, do not let anybody be weird

421
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: at you about your plural form of the word octopus,

422
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: because everybody's drawing on some kind of Latin or Greek

423
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: and putting it into English the best they can. There

424
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 1: are four common ways people say it, and they're all

425
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: at least a little bit valid, like they're all kind

426
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: of drawing on a language thing. But the four ways

427
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: you hear are octopuses, which we've been using, also octopi,

428
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: and then two pronunciations of a word, either octopodes or octopities,

429
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: depending on how they get to it.

430
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: Octopities is one I have not heard. I've heard octopodes,

431
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: but topitys is that sounds like a Greek hero who

432
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: has eight arms and punches Zeus with all of them.

433
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should go right that later. It's awesome. But

434
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: the reason there are so many ways English speakers say

435
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: this plural is a weird mechanism with how the ancient

436
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: Greek language also got adapted into Latin, and then how

437
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: both of those got adapted into English. But all of

438
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: it comes from an ancient compound word for eight foot.

439
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: I know we're calling them arms and tentacles, but the

440
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: ancient word called them feet. Oh, there's an animal with

441
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: eight feet. That's where we get the word octopus.

442
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: It's also where we get the word millipedes, right, because

443
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: that's a thousand.

444
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: Feet Yeah right, Yeah, it's these very similar connections between

445
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: these two wiggly animals in our language.

446
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, wiggly and squiggly. I used to not like millipedes

447
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: because we had a lot of them in our backyard

448
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: when I was growing up, and like, i'd feel a

449
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: tickle on my leg and I'd look down and the

450
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: marching of many little feats going up my leg, and

451
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't a huge fan of that. That upset me.

452
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't live in a millipede region. I

453
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: guess I'd never had that experience, since it would probably

454
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: leave me with some stuff. Yeah, I like them.

455
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if I want them on me.

456
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 1: Linco in a bunch of sources Merriam Webster's Dictionarydictionary, dot Com,

457
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: the Ocean Conservancy, and some more about just how this

458
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: word works. Octopus Octopus is a Latinized form of the

459
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: Greek words for eight and for foot put together in

460
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: a compound word. And so then what people speaking English

461
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: have done is either used the usual way we translate

462
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: Latin words, or the usual way we translate Greek words,

463
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: or the usual way we translate Latinized Greek words. Yeah,

464
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: and so, so that's why there's many plurals hanging out,

465
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: And in most cases latinized forms of Greek words get

466
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: pluralized with an es ending, which would be octopuses. And

467
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: that's why I have opted for that one out of

468
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: all the options, but an i ending is often used

469
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: for Latin words. Also, apparently, octopi is the earliest printed

470
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: version in English. Merriam Webster says that there's early eighteen

471
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: hundreds examples of octopi and writing and then either octopodes

472
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: or octopities, which are spelled the same. That is probably

473
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: coming from English speakers trying to be overly correct about

474
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: adapting Greek and kind of skipping the Latin part. So

475
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, all of these are broadly fine, especially because

476
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: everybody knows what you're talking about whichever one you use,

477
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: and so you know, I celebrate anyone who has a

478
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: huge passion for one of these specifically, but you can

479
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: let it go when other people use the other ones.

480
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: It's fine. They're all just not me.

481
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: I'm I'm team octopuses, and I'm going to die on

482
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: that hill.

483
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,239
Speaker 1: What if I'm saying all this be cool stuff as

484
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: a trick so we can spring a surprise attack on

485
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: the octopi people like they let their card down, you know,

486
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: we strike it down, and then everyone waves eight weapons.

487
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's much like an octopus's arms,

488
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: just kind of coming in from the side, like a

489
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: pincer movement. Oh, we're back to crabs.

490
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's.

491
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: Everything is crabs.

492
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: That's the gist of this, especially internet thing about plurals.

493
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: This is also oddly one of my favorite stories about

494
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 1: English being a living language. Right, the language we are

495
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: speaking taping this podcast a language. You probably understand English

496
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: is a living language. If people use a word a lot,

497
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: it pretty much just becomes part of English. There's no

498
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: quote unquote right or wrong when it comes to the language.

499
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: One of my favorite linguists is McCullough, who hosts the

500
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: podcast Enthusiasm and has written extensively about modern and Internet English.

501
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: She says, quote, I think that it can come as

502
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: a tremendous relief to realize that you don't have to

503
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: be angry about language. You don't have to be annoyed

504
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: about people doing something different from you. End quote. Yes,

505
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: and also it turns out the ancient world is just

506
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: amazingly connected to octopuses. You know, the ancient world gave

507
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: us these words. But I'm also going to link a

508
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: digital resource from the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, England, because

509
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: they obtained a large jar made by the Mycenaean civilization

510
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: on the modern island of Crete. It's a jar next

511
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: number nearly three thousand, five hundred years old, three thousand,

512
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: five hundred year old jar with amazing octopus art on it.

513
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, it speaks to how long humans have been

514
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: connected to these animals that are usually deep under the

515
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: ocean and being weird, we've still met them and been

516
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: fascinated by them.

517
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the jar and it's a typical jar,

518
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: but the octopus art is adorable. I mean, there are

519
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: some very very cute species of octopuses. One of the cutest,

520
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: the blue ring octopus, is something you absolutely don't want

521
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: to touch because it'll kill you dead.

522
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're weirdly incredibly deadly, those guys. There's even a

523
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: number here, more than one thousand times because the blue

524
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: ring octopus has saliva that is more than one thousand

525
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: times more toxic than a similar quantity of cyanide. Yeah,

526
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: so look out, don't let them bite you.

527
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 2: Look out. The thing that makes my butt pucker. The

528
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: most seeing on the internet is someone taking a photo

529
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 2: of them holding a blue ring octopus because they think

530
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: it looks cool. And they do look very cool. They're

531
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: bright yellow with these blue rings. They're very very pretty,

532
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: and they're little, so they seem harmless, right, like they

533
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: fit in the palm of your hand. But yeah, it

534
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: if it bites you, I don't know, man, I think

535
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: that's it. I think it's very hard to get you

536
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: to the hospital on time. Basically, the treatment for it,

537
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: as far as I know, is just like replace your fluids,

538
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: try to keep you alive. There's not really an anti

539
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: toxin that I'm aware of.

540
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: That's right, And it turns out people often get good care.

541
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: But it seems like also there are probably unrecorded deaths

542
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: from this because according to Newsweek, another number here is three. Allegedly,

543
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: there are three confirmed human deaths due to the blue

544
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: ringed octopus's toxin. But there's no anti venom or anti toxin.

545
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: There's just keeping an eye on you, supplying you with

546
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: oxygen and making sure you keep breathing while you pass

547
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: this through. The toxin is called tetrototoxin, very toxic. But

548
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: also this animal is so small. Apparently most adults will

549
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: receive an amount where if there's medical intervention right away,

550
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: they'll be Okay, it's just a horrible experience and you

551
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: have to get that intervention. And also these live in

552
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: the waters near Australia, the blue ring octopus, so that's

553
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: the specific region to watch out for them.

554
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

555
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: Again, there's hundreds of these octopus species, and like the

556
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: blue ring octopus is very small. It's the adults are

557
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: about twenty two centimeters long, or less than nine inches,

558
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 1: and apparently other species that are not so toxic can

559
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: be as small as less than one inch across. In

560
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: the case of a small adult in the starsucker pigmy

561
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: octopus species.

562
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 2: It's so cute, you know, and tiny.

563
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's internet pictures of it on a fingertip, the

564
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: human fingertip, you know, so it's pretty good. That's really cool.

565
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. A thing about like, don't I don't want people

566
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: to be super afraid of the blue ring octopus though,

567
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: because like they are not going to like seek you

568
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: out and bite you for no reason. They generally don't

569
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: want to spin their toksin if they don't have to,

570
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: because it's, you know, it is a resource that they

571
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: want to conserve. So if you don't handle them, you're

572
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: you're gonna be fine.

573
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, and it's yeah, it's a rare thing.

574
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: Enjoy yourself in the ocean and everything. It's good.

575
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Just leave them alone and they will

576
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: most likely leave you alone.

577
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. And another number here is two, because that is

578
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: the number of parts of an octopus beak. Yes, most

579
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: species have a beak, and it's underneath those famous eight

580
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: arms on their underside, and it can be two sharp

581
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: hooking points, sort of like the beak of a parrot,

582
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: which is also very strange. And it also led me

583
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: to a very adorable Google result where people ask if

584
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: octopuses are related to birds, and the result just kindly

585
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: walked people through. Absolutely not just octopuses and parrots both

586
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: came up with this beak. They are otherwise mega differ.

587
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: They're not related at all.

588
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: I mean, another amazing instance of independent evolution of the

589
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 2: beak in the parrot or other bird species. And then

590
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 2: in octopuses, I mean it's you know, it's definitely different

591
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: in its structure and sort of the mechanism of action

592
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: in terms of the muscles, but very similar, weirdly similar.

593
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: That's right. And also it's strong enough to crunch apart

594
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: prey like crabs and clams, and octopuses also will often

595
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: use paralyzing saliva to catch prey, and so that's why

596
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: the blue ring octopus has this toxic saliva. It's not

597
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: out to get you. It's just living in the ocean

598
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: hunting stuff. And it's one of many octopus species that

599
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: toxify an animal in order to then eat it with

600
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: its beak.

601
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially something little like the blue ring octopus, it

602
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: is beneficial to be able to incapacitate prey that might

603
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: otherwise be a little too strong for it to do.

604
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: So now I'm just rooting practicuses.

605
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: This feels great, Go little guy, go use that neurotoxin.

606
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and folks, that's a heck of a lot of

607
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: numbers and a few takeaways. So we're going to take

608
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: a short break and come back with some more about

609
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: this eight armed, nine brained animal. And folks, we are

610
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: back with a mystery. Ooh, mystery fun ooh, because the

611
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: next number here is one hundred six.

612
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 2: That's a specific number.

613
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, what happened is a few years ago there was

614
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: a research team that sent an underwater camera fourteen thousand

615
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: feet into the ocean's depths and it reached the bottom

616
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: of the fram Strait, which is an Arctic sea passage

617
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: between Greenland and Svalbard, and their camera observed one hundred

618
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: and six matching octagon shapes drawn into the floor of the.

619
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: Ocean aliens underwater aliens.

620
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: That's right, internet headline underwater aliens aka octopuses. Because it

621
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: turns out they said, hey, what's going on with this?

622
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 1: And then a German university research team new study in

623
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 1: June twenty twenty three. They shared observations and camera footage

624
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: of an octopus species making these octagon shapes.

625
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 2: And go, that's very on the nose for them. Are

626
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: they just kind of like sitting and then like sweeping

627
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 2: each of their legs into the sand or something? Why

628
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: is it seems too good to be true for an

629
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: octagon to be made by an octopus.

630
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: Exactly like octopuses and people who make stop signs are

631
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: the famous octagon things? In the world that it was

632
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: one of them.

633
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

634
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: This is from an amazing piece by Sabrina Imbler at

635
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: defector dot com. They say that there is a serrated

636
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: species of octopus called Syratouthus mule. It's one of the

637
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: only ones that lives in Arctic waters, and the octopuses

638
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: are usually in warmer waters, but they are octopus species

639
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: in every ocean, and this Arctic water's octopus syra Toothyus muleri.

640
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 1: It is gelatinous, it is inkless, and so the way

641
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: they hunt for food is they sort of descend all

642
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: the way to the bottom of the ocean, plant their

643
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: eight arms, which have webbing between them, like plant their

644
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: eight arms on the floor of the ocean and then

645
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: just sort of suck up anything that's on the ground

646
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: right there. And then this leaves behind an octagon print

647
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: on the floor of the ocean.

648
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 2: So it's like the rumba technique, but it's kind of

649
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: a stationary rumba. Yeah, it's like it couldn't be just that,

650
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: like a little octagon shaped thing suckered itself to the

651
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: bottom of the ocean. And yes, that is what it is.

652
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: That's it.

653
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.

654
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: That's so cute. Just this little guy just going and

655
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: then sucking things up from the bottom of the ocean.

656
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like the funniest straightforward behavior you could Yeah, yeah.

657
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it just it seems like something from a cartoon.

658
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 2: Octopuses are one of the wackier animals, aren't they. It's

659
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: the it's the arms that like wiggle around their uh,

660
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: the inflatable wacky arms of the ocean, just with even

661
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: more arms to be wacky. But yeah, it's interesting because

662
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: some some octopuses have like very distinct arms that are

663
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: all separate, but this one seems like it's kind of

664
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: it's almost like a membranous skirt connects all the arms.

665
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: That's right. It turns out there's a set of octopus

666
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: species where it's a set of webbed arms and sort

667
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: of a gelatinous body and no ink sack and I

668
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: guess a little bit like jellyfish, but also like they

669
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: have a dress on. You know. It's it's a very

670
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: specific and willowy, wafty kind of octopus.

671
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 2: I want to see them twirl like Maria in the

672
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 2: Sound of Music with their little little membrane skirt. It's

673
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: very very cute.

674
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: Wow, that's really the vibe. I was thinking of Maria

675
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: a West Side story as well. A lot of Maria's

676
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: out here are a very Maria.

677
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 2: I guess this the name for a real squirrel twirling' lady.

678
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: That's right.

679
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: Did I say squirrel twirling lady? I meant to say

680
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: skirt twirling lady, but I can't say words.

681
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: Look, we're trying to do biology and musical theater. We're

682
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: spinning a lot of plates. We're doing great.

683
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: Maybe they also twirl squirrels. I don't know. That's what

684
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: I'd do if I had a squirrel.

685
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: She's like, the hills are alive, and the squirrels just

686
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: like meet meet meep, meet me and more. Octopuses being

687
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: fun underwater. At the next number here is three forty

688
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: seven BC, because in three forty seven BC, the Greek

689
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: thinker Aristotle recorded an observation of the male octopus's sexual organ.

690
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: And you know, often Aristotle is just guessing that stuff,

691
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: but this was more or less correct. He observed a

692
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: specialized arm that we now call a hectocatalyus, because it

693
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: turns out, in most male octopuses of their species, one

694
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: of their arms has the organs for sperm production. And

695
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: they reproduce by reaching that into a part of the

696
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: female octopus to fertilize thousands of eggs all at once.

697
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: That's kind of interesting. It's like a handshake, but a

698
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: lot more than a handshake, I guess for octopuses. It

699
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 2: really is true that if you hold hands you can

700
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: get pregnant.

701
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: Wow. Then I guess the one way it's more iNTS

702
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: than that nineteen fifties concept is that in one set

703
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: of octopus species called the argonaut, the male can detach

704
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: that arm and sort of leave it behind and.

705
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: Throws it like towards the female because he's afraid of

706
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: getting eaten. It's really funny. It's like, yeah, here's what

707
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: I's firm. Bye.

708
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

709
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: Some octopus species are also cannibalistic, which is part of

710
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: the not being so social element of octopus. Slice. You

711
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: might get eaten by another octopus.

712
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 2: Look. I mean it is a type of going out

713
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: to dinner, just one that only one person goes home for.

714
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: I would be so mad if I was a waiter

715
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: and I seated a couple and then one of them

716
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: started eating the other, I'd be like, well, I'm not

717
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: going to get any Like the check's gonna be a

718
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: dollar for iced tea. I'm not gonna get any tip man.

719
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't fill up on bread and don't fill up

720
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: on your date.

721
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, like I work for tips man. Come on,

722
00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: just chomp, chump.

723
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: Chump, here's a tip and then you throw your reproductive

724
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 2: organ at them.

725
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 1: And then related to all that, there's another number here.

726
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: July third, twenty twenty three, So a couple weeks ago,

727
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: July third, twenty twenty three, that's when researchers announce the

728
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: third ever discovery of an undersea octopus nursery. Ooh, because

729
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: another takeaway here. Takeaway number three. Octopuses are pretty antisocial,

730
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 1: but we've discovered a few undersea octopus breeding colonies and

731
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: that this is probably not an example of octopuses being

732
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: more social than we expected, but they are tolerating each

733
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: other at specific advantageous locations for laying eggs and breeding.

734
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really interesting because it's almost like you could

735
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 2: see this as maybe a step in evolution towards being

736
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 2: more social. But they're not there yet. They're still very introverted.

737
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: They're still all just like busy playing Diablo for on

738
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: their little octopus computers, not paying attention to each other,

739
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: but they don't, you know, they kind of they might

740
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: have these sort of brief interactions and then they get

741
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: really shy and like move away.

742
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: That's the next time I lose at Diablo, for I'm

743
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: going to claim my opponent had eight arms or seven

744
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: if they reproduced recently their mail. But yeah, yeah, they

745
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: There's some headlines that have called these locations Octopolis or Actlantis,

746
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: you know, fun stuff about an ocopas city under the sea.

747
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: It's like, we say, this is octopus is finding a

748
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: space where they all want to be, and this new discovery.

749
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: The key sources NPR. They're also covering research from a

750
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: nonprofit called the Schmidt Ocean Institute. Hey, folks, the former

751
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt and his wife Wendy are

752
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: fun in a bunch of research and I'm going to

753
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: feel like it's from me. The Schmidt Ocean Institute is

754
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: going on now.

755
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: So a Schmidt with a wife named Wendy and you're

756
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 2: a Schmidt with a wife named Brenda. Mm hmm, yeah,

757
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 2: it's all comment. It's too m are you are you?

758
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: Did you try to like ditch your old identity as

759
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: a Google co founder?

760
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: He he was like the CEO who worked with the

761
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: two co founders. Yeah, he's like the third guy who

762
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: made all the money.

763
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: You're really good at speaking in the third person there.

764
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: I didn't say this on the recent Name Alex episode,

765
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: but consistently, if people miss here my name Alex, they

766
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: think I said Eric, and I kind of get it.

767
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: But it's surprising, you know, that that's not the name

768
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: I would think they would hear.

769
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 2: I would think that they would hear Lex Luthor or something.

770
00:45:53,360 --> 00:46:00,240
Speaker 1: Like that and run screaming ya Wenda. The Schmidt team.

771
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: They announced the discovery in July twenty twenty three of

772
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: a giant breeding group of a deep sea octopus species

773
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: called mus octopus, and they breed near a warm hydrothermal

774
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: vent on the Dorado outcrop near Costa Rica. That's a

775
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: big discovery because the previous two octopus groups were in

776
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: a different place and a different species. In two thousand

777
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: and nine and again in twenty seventeen, researchers found the

778
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: gloomy octopus species yet another fund name, the gloomy octopus

779
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: congregating and breeding in a location in Jervis Bay near Sydney, Australia.

780
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: The first find was on a piece of discarded metal,

781
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: and they just thought that was a fluke thing. But

782
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: then they found a whole other group of octopuses elsewhere

783
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: in Jervis Bay, and the group was ten to fifteen

784
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: octopuses at a time, so not a atlantis or something,

785
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: but they were finding that these octopuses only live about

786
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: three years, and each successive generation would leave behind burrows

787
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: or piles of shells, and then the next generation would

788
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: use those to build their own homes and burrows. And

789
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: it's vaguely social, vaguely urban in a way we didn't

790
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: think octopuses did.

791
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting because when you look at social

792
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: species of terrestrial animals a lot of time, it is

793
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: limited resources that draws them together. So even there's a

794
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: theory for you social animals, which are animals like ants

795
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: or prairie dogs, where it's like you have this hierarchy

796
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: and you have sort of the soldiers or the sisters

797
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: kind of working together for the good of the colony,

798
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 2: and you have like a breeding pair. The idea behind

799
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: that is that if you have conditions where resources are scarce,

800
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 2: it's actually more advantageous to like pool resources and even

801
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: if you're not the one breeding a lot of these

802
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 2: genes that you actually have into getting passed down and

803
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: so it'll result in someone like you who is more

804
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: use social being in the next generation. So it's cool.

805
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: Octopuses have been around a really long time. It doesn't

806
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 2: mean just because we see some of these proto social

807
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: behaviors and octopuses where it's like, especially like at the

808
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: bottom of the ocean, when you're near hydrothermal vents, you

809
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: have limited area that is either not too cold and

810
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: desolate and not too hot, so you have kind of

811
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: these like goldilocks areas around these hydrothermal vents, and so

812
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: it would make sense that they would kind of congregate

813
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: in an area that is because basically real estate is

814
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 2: limited down there where you can live. But you know,

815
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean they would necessarily ever evolve into the

816
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 2: next stage of being social, but it you know, give

817
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: them another few million years. And maybe I.

818
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: Like that because so many of them are highly intelligent

819
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: as much as we can rate animal intelligence, Like they

820
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: have the mental horsepower to hang out if they just

821
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: really aren't choosing to and sometimes eat each other. But

822
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: if they're gathering in these same advantageous spots, maybe they

823
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: get there.

824
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: The key is you would need some evolutionary pressure on

825
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 2: them to be social, so you need some kind of

826
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: advantage for their offspring for them to be more pro social. Yeah,

827
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: I mean it is. It is interesting to see such

828
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: an intelligent animal that seems to do behaviors that you

829
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 2: see in more social animals like playing, you know, potentially dreaming,

830
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 2: have being curious, Like they seem very curious about like

831
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 2: humans and stuff. And so you'd think it has all

832
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 2: the markings of an animal that you would think would

833
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 2: be more social, but it's it just doesn't have the

834
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: necessity to be social. It doesn't have the motivation to

835
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 2: be evolutionary motivation that is, to be social, and so

836
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 2: it generally isn't unless it's on MDMA, right, unless it

837
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: is high out of its nine minds.

838
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: It is strange that one team is like, we can

839
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: make octopuses love, and another team is like, we can

840
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: make octopuses want to live forever. You know, there's a

841
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: lot of scientists out there who.

842
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: Are and if you combine them, you create a new God.

843
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: Right, Like we are so close to making these are

844
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: co super animals of Earth, you know, like we're so

845
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: close if we want to do it.

846
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: I would love an all knowing, all loving super being octopus.

847
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 2: I would probably become religious if that were the case.

848
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 1: There's one last takeaway for the band show, and it

849
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 1: is fun in the context of that idea because takeaway

850
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: number four octopuses punch fish and possibly for no reason.

851
00:50:54,160 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, for funsies. You know, I've heard about octopuses punching fish.

852
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 2: I think actually from our one of our sister podcasts,

853
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: Just the Zoo of Us, we talked about octopuses punching fish.

854
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: Shout out to them.

855
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Alana Christian are so great. And and also I

856
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: love the people are studying this observing this. I feel

857
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: like it's mostly a product of good video cameras that

858
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: we are now understanding that just through some recent observations,

859
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: we've seen octopuses following fish around, which we knew they did,

860
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: but then also using one of their arms to suddenly

861
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: punch them. Yes, it's another human like behavior, but also weird.

862
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: That's octopus stuff. It's sometimes human like and also really weird.

863
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one theory that like, when they're with these

864
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 2: fish that sometimes they do kind of like co hunting

865
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 2: behaviors with fish. So there will be like a reef, right,

866
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 2: and you have little fish trying to escape in the reef.

867
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: And then if you have one fish hunting that is

868
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: like blocking one entrance, and then the octopus who's like

869
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 2: squeezing its tentacles into all the knicks and crannies, the

870
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: fish and the octopus can kind of it's a friendship

871
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 2: of convenience, like in badgers and coyotes, where you have

872
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: a burrow, you have some prairie dogs or groundhogs in

873
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 2: these burrows, and then if you have a coyote on

874
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: one end of the burrow and then a badger digging

875
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: up the other entrance or exit to the burrow, then

876
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: at least one of them is gonna get a tasty snack.

877
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 2: Theory with octopus and the fish is that if the

878
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 2: octopus is annoyed that the fish is maybe like eating

879
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 2: more than it should, maybe it gives it a punch.

880
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 2: But it's unclear if that's actually what's going on, because

881
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 2: sometimes it just seems to punch it randomly, so we're

882
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 2: not really sure why it does that, if it's just

883
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: doing it for fun, if it just gets annoyed with

884
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 2: the fish, if it's like trying to put the fish

885
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: in its place. Like, Remember, I could punch you at

886
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 2: any time, so don't get too cocky here. It's hard

887
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: to know exactly what is going through the octopus's mind.

888
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 2: I would definitely buy it if the octopus just thinks

889
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: it's funny, because octopus is also like, there's octopuses in

890
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 2: like tanks and aquariums will sometimes play so like they

891
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: take like an empty pill bottle that's buoyant and then

892
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: they toss it into like this stream, like the water

893
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 2: filter has kind of a jet stream, and they'll like

894
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 2: basically play fetch with themselves where they toss it over

895
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 2: and over. So they seem to enjoy stimulation like that.

896
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe they just think it's fun, or maybe

897
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: they're punishing the fish. Who knows.

898
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all exactly it and what a quote a

899
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: researcher here at Duardo Sempio of the Max Planck Institute

900
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: of Animal Behavior in Germany, who yeah, observed all those

901
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: possible reasons for it, and also says there are different

902
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: octopus punching styles. He says, quote, some punches are almost

903
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: like a small boot, and the other ones that even

904
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: the whole arm curls up and uncurls afterwards, you know,

905
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 1: like the motion of a boxer doing a punch. End quote,

906
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: and yeah, he says like exactly what he said. It

907
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: could be to guide fish hunting. It could be to

908
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: punish a fish and get the food first. But in

909
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: some cases the octopus punches the fish quote with no

910
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: discernible insensive. So they could just be playing whack a

911
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: mole at an arcade. You know, they could just be bullying.

912
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: It could be just goofing around.

913
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: Just doesn't like the way the fish is looking at it.

914
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 2: It's like, what are you looking at? The punch?

915
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 1: And who can blame them? Basically, every fish face is freaky.

916
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 2: You know, I've got it too it Yeah, unblinking.

917
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: It's Walleye to literally forget it.

918
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. The lesson we've learned on today's show is that

919
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: Alex is pro punching fish again.

920
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: Bring us back to the rich text of SpongeBob. The

921
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: anchovies are very funny, but also that's a flat face.

922
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: There's not a lot going on there. And if I

923
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: was an octopus, so I'd just be like, get out

924
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: of here.

925
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: The.

926
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: Folks. That's the main episode for this week. Welcome to

927
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: the outro with fun features for you, such as help

928
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: remembering this episode with a runback through the big takeaways.

929
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: Takeaway number one, In some octopus species, consciousness might be

930
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: spread across the equivalent of nine brains. Takeaway number two,

931
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: do not let anybody be weird at you about your

932
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: plural form of the word octopus. Takeaway number three. Octopuses

933
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: are pretty antisocial and sometimes cannibals, but we're also discovering

934
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: some undersea octopus pre colonies. Takeaway number four octopuses punch

935
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: fish and possibly for no reason. Plus a ton of

936
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: numbers about octopus hearts, beaks, toxins, mysteries, and you know,

937
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: enough stuff to get us up to what's eight takeaways

938
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: basically right, perfectly on theme for octopus. Those are the takeaways. Also,

939
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: I said that's the main episode because there is more

940
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you right now. If

941
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: you support this show at maximum fun dot org, members

942
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: get a bonus show every week where we explore one

943
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: obviously incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode. This

944
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: week's bonus topic is a slew of amazing octopus lore,

945
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: either from mythology or from modern security cameras. Visit sifpod

946
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: dot fun for that bonus show, for a library of

947
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: almost thirteen dozen other secretly incredibly fascinating bonus shows, and

948
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: a catalog of all sorts of max Fun bonus shows.

949
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: It's special audio. It is just for members. Thank you

950
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: for being somebody who backs this podcast operation additional fun

951
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 1: things check out our research sources on this episode's page

952
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: at maximum fund dot org. Key sources this week include

953
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: digital resources from Professor Gretchen Rollwagen Bowlands of Washington State University.

954
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: For the resources from NPR London's Natural History Museum, the

955
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: South Carolina Aquarium, the Ashmolean Museum. Also the book The

956
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: Soul of an Octopus by naturalists and writer Si Montgomery,

957
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: and hey the podcast Creature feature by the great Katie Golden.

958
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: That page also features resources such as Native dash Land

959
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: dot c A. I'm using those to acknowledge that I

960
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: recorded this on the traditional land of the Canarsi and

961
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: Lenape peoples. Also, Katie taped this in the country of Italy,

962
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: and I want to acknowledge that in my location, in

963
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: many other locations in the Americas and elsewhere, native people

964
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: are are very much still here. That feels worth doing.

965
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: On each episode, and hey, join the Free Sift discord,

966
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: where we're sharing stories and resources about Native people and life.

967
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: There's a link in this episode's description to join the discord.

968
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: We're also talking about this episode on the discord and hey,

969
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: would you like a tip on another episode? Because each

970
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: week I'm finding you something randomly incredibly fascinating by running

971
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: all the past episode numbers through a random number generator.

972
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: This week's pick is episode twenty one that is about

973
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: the topic of musk oxen. It's me and Katie Golden

974
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: and Elliott Klin, our buddy from the Flophouse to discover

975
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: that fun fact some scientists studying musk oxen do it

976
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: wearing full body polar bear costumes, so I recommend that episode.

977
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: I course recommend Creature, feature, Katie Golden's weekly podcast about

978
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: animals and science and more. Our theme music is Unbroken

979
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: Unshaven by the Buddos Band. Our show logo is by

980
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: artist Burton durand special thanks to Chris SUSA for audio

981
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: mastering on this episode. Extra extra special thanks go to

982
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: our members and thank you to all our listeners. I'm

983
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: thrilled to say we will be back next week with

984
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: more secretly incredibly fascinating, So how about that.

985
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 3: Talk to you then, Maximum.

986
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 2: Fun, a worker owned network

987
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: Of artists owned shows supported directly by you.