Speaker 1: So I keep hearing about the Salt Lake City finale,
Speaker 1: and I have so many thoughts before even watching it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch it, and I'm going to tell
Speaker 1: you what I think after I watch it, but having
Speaker 1: not watched it, I want to tell you what I
Speaker 1: think about the whole concept beforehand. Okay, So people like
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lawrence are saying it was the most riveting television
Speaker 1: they've ever seen, and you know how people like Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts on watch What Happens Live talking about housewives in general,
Speaker 1: and the medium and the genre has evolved, devolved changed,
Speaker 1: and here's what I really think. So what was explained
Speaker 1: to me was that this girl seems like a sociopath
Speaker 1: and that she's the villain, she's happy to play the villain,
Speaker 1: that she was a show fan, that she had to
Speaker 1: hate account. People have hate accounts about me. People that
Speaker 1: I know on the Housewives have had many people who
Speaker 1: have had hate accounts about them. And what I do
Speaker 1: know to be true is while you make some friendships,
Speaker 1: like friendships, like people that you can enjoy, people that
Speaker 1: I like, like Sonya, who I text occasionally, but not
Speaker 1: that I see every day, not people that you know
Speaker 1: you've been able to sustain as a ride or die.
Speaker 1: It's next to impossible to sustain a ride or die
Speaker 1: on the Housewives. So I know that Teresa and Melissa
Speaker 1: weren't BFFs, but like, it's really disintegrated their relationship. Look
Speaker 1: at Dina Manzo and her family disintegrated relationships. Nini's been
Speaker 1: through so many relationships. It really took a toll on
Speaker 1: Jill and my relationship, which hadn't been going on that
Speaker 1: long beforehand. It didn't have the strong foundation that some
Speaker 1: might have before going in there, and still disintegrated Carol
Speaker 1: in myself. It goes on and on, Eric and List
Speaker 1: So we're locked.
Speaker 2: At the hip. Best friends.
Speaker 1: Yes they're friendly now, but they're not the same level
Speaker 1: of friendship. Because the show makes you need these alliances.
Speaker 1: It just makes the concentration strategic. And it's not intentional.
Speaker 1: It's not on purpose. You're not just saying, oh, sometimes
Speaker 1: you are. Sometimes people are being friends with someone or
Speaker 1: aligning or having allegiances or alliances because of the show.
Speaker 1: They know the show's coming back. They've got to have
Speaker 1: people to cling on to. Everyone's going to hate them
Speaker 1: once everybody hates one person. It's a feeding frenzy. Every
Speaker 1: scene is about that. You know, what goes up must
Speaker 1: come down, and it's a zero sum game. Someone's always
Speaker 1: hated or loved. But what I will say is that
Speaker 1: it is next to impossible to sustain positive relationships, whether romantic.
Speaker 1: But that's easier than friendships because with romantic the spouse
Speaker 1: or the boyfriend is usually not is not the main character,
Speaker 1: so they can not film much and they're not as
Speaker 1: much on the front lines. So now we realize that
Speaker 1: a lot of it's not real, that a lot of
Speaker 1: it's manufactured.
Speaker 2: That people.
Speaker 1: Go to jail, that people have sort of alter egos,
Speaker 1: that people have secret lives, infidelity, owe people money, have
Speaker 1: illegal practices, have different scandals associated with them. So we
Speaker 1: realize that a lot of this is fraudulent. We realize
Speaker 1: that people definitely don't have the money they.
Speaker 2: Say they do.
Speaker 1: They may not live in the cities they're pretending to
Speaker 1: live in, they may not own the houses they're pretending
Speaker 1: to own in or the cars they're pretending to own.
Speaker 1: So it's all pretty fraudulent and it's really for theatrics.
Speaker 2: No problem.
Speaker 1: The Hills was similar, So now we're trying to assign
Speaker 1: real relationships to a show that is based on casted relationships.
Speaker 1: The relationships and the friendships for the most part, and
Speaker 1: the tight knit aspect of.
Speaker 2: The group is usually not real.
Speaker 1: People become friends with the people, or spend time with
Speaker 1: the people, or have to go on vacation with the
Speaker 1: people because they're working with them, they're filming with them.
Speaker 1: It's no different than you working down the office from
Speaker 1: Jane that you may have to go to a company
Speaker 1: retreat with, or you may have to see in the breakroom,
Speaker 1: or you just see it work every day. You're not
Speaker 1: hanging out with them or doing holidays with them. So
Speaker 1: now it's this alternate universe where you're friends with people,
Speaker 1: you're not friends with them, and it's the upside down
Speaker 1: because you think it's real and it's not. And I've
Speaker 1: never ever learned more about people than when we've gotten
Speaker 1: off the show. That's when I really start to like
Speaker 1: a lot of the housewives because I'm not on the
Speaker 1: battlefield with them. I don't have to see them either
Speaker 1: as sort of a manufactured alliance or an enemy. They're
Speaker 1: just people that I know socially that I'll see out
Speaker 1: and I can appreciate for who they are. They don't
Speaker 1: have to be my everything, they don't have to be
Speaker 1: my nothing. So now you have a person who was
Speaker 1: a fan and wanted some level of fame and had
Speaker 1: accountants and wanted on that show so badly, and this
Speaker 1: person got what they wanted. They don't care about any
Speaker 1: of these people, and maybe they're more authentic than most
Speaker 1: because they're walking into this experience saying I'm coming in,
Speaker 1: I'm on the battlefield. No one really cares about anybody
Speaker 1: else in this whole experience, So I'm gonna walk in
Speaker 1: that way. I'm walking in not giving a shit. I'm
Speaker 1: walking in casting myself not as somebody who's going to
Speaker 1: be beloved, but as the villain. So while everybody's around
Speaker 1: here pretending everybody's best friends, and I've been filtrated this
Speaker 1: group of really good friends, which is bullshit because all
Speaker 1: these people are constantly trashing each other and fighting. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm walking in as a villain. So when I get
Speaker 1: caught as a villain, and I get caught as being
Speaker 1: someone who hates these people, I'm dispassionate because I never
Speaker 1: promised any of them anything.
Speaker 2: None of them are paying my rent.
Speaker 1: I came in here for fame, for relevance, for reality TV,
Speaker 1: the bag of bullshit that it is.
Speaker 2: So this woman.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet, but from what I understands,
Speaker 1: it seems like a sociopath because she acted like she
Speaker 1: was friends with everybody and played this role where she
Speaker 1: was part of this group when she was really their enemy.
Speaker 1: I completely understand why this other woman, Heather, would feel
Speaker 1: completely violated, also by production and by the whole entire experience,
Speaker 1: because she feels like she's sleeping with the enemy. She's
Speaker 1: living in the same house with the enemy. But on
Speaker 1: reality TV, most people are the enemy. I've seen people
Speaker 1: that have called up shows where I'm supposed to do
Speaker 1: a hosting gig for shows, called up shows these people
Speaker 1: are supposed to be my friends, and called up those
Speaker 1: shows and said, why Bethany not me, I'm so much
Speaker 1: better than her. I've had people call up brands that
Speaker 1: I'm working with and say why not me. I've had
Speaker 1: every single situation where different.
Speaker 2: Housewives have trashed me.
Speaker 1: I've had Andy Cohen trashed me to other housewives, and
Speaker 1: other housewives trash me.
Speaker 2: To Andy Cohen.
Speaker 1: This is what goes on in this environment. So for
Speaker 1: someone like Jennifer Lawrence. To love it as entertainment, that's
Speaker 1: one thing. But whether it's Jennifer Lawrence, Julia Roberts, or
Speaker 1: Jane in the cul de Sac in Ohio, they all
Speaker 1: need to know that these are actual, real human beings
Speaker 1: on these shows playing a role.
Speaker 2: It's like, entertain me, you're in front of the king.
Speaker 1: They're jesters. Entertain me at any cost. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: You're gonna go to jail, You're gonna be accused of something.
Speaker 1: Someone's gonna rat someone out, someone's gonna have a hate
Speaker 1: account on someone, someone's gonna say that someone's money isn't real.
Speaker 1: It's all's fair in love and war in this thing.
Speaker 1: And so maybe in some cases now I'm starting to
Speaker 1: realize that everybody, I guess does have to realize what they.
Speaker 2: Sign up for.
Speaker 1: I did not know that that's what I was signing
Speaker 1: up for all those years ago, which is why I
Speaker 1: left multiple times. So now I'm gonna say the public
Speaker 1: service announcement to anyone signing up for reality TV, you
Speaker 1: are signing up to possibly go to jail, be called
Speaker 1: a fraud, be called a cheat, or be called a liar,
Speaker 1: to be tempted to actually be a cheater, to actually
Speaker 1: be a liar, to want to pretend you have more
Speaker 1: money than you actually do, to want to rent cars,
Speaker 1: to keep up with the jones, is to have to
Speaker 1: look rich. It doesn't matter if you are rich. It
Speaker 1: just matters if you look rich. It doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: you're a good person. It just matters if the audience
Speaker 1: thinks you're a good person. It doesn't matter if you're
Speaker 1: a villain. As long as you're a good villain that
Speaker 1: people love to hate. You need to be loved or
Speaker 1: someone who people love to hate. Don't get stuck in
Speaker 1: the middle. That's the riptide. That's when you get fired
Speaker 1: from the show. So if you're trying to be famous
Speaker 1: and you're going in there and you want to be relevant,
Speaker 1: whoever that girl is, I think her name is Monica.
Speaker 1: She accomplished her goal. So I don't know if she's
Speaker 1: a sociopath. I don't know if she's a genius. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. She walked in, she was a nobody, and
Speaker 1: now everybody's talking about her, and she's a somebody. You
Speaker 1: go in, you have an affair, You fuck around with
Speaker 1: somebody that you know. Alas Vanderpump rules, and the show
Speaker 1: has higher ratings and had so scandal sells, hate sells,
Speaker 1: hate accounts sell and evidently being a villain or being
Speaker 1: a sociopath also sells. It's all about the Benjamin's baby,
Speaker 1: It's all about business, the production company, Bravo, and that girl.
Speaker 1: They're all winning, and so are the victims. Heather's winning too.
Speaker 1: Everybody's winning because none of it's real, none of it
Speaker 1: ever mattered, And no one should walk into reality television
Speaker 1: or the Housewives for that matter, thinking this is where
Speaker 1: you're going to forge real, genuine, authentic, meaningful, spiritual, deep
Speaker 1: relationships that enrich your life.
Speaker 2: It's a cesspool, it's a garbage dump.
Speaker 1: Go in there and get dirty and grab everything you
Speaker 1: can and pay those women anything that they want because
Speaker 1: they're in the mudpit getting dirty and it might.
Speaker 2: Just affect the rest of their lives.
Speaker 1: Exploitation with comp compensation, that's what they should get. So
Speaker 1: what strikes me about the Salt Lake City Monica character
Speaker 1: is that within the show, we're seeing these trolls that
Speaker 1: we see on tiktoks. There are hate pages about people.
Speaker 1: People host live instagrams and TikTok events where they just
Speaker 1: trash other people and speculate on their lives, their money,
Speaker 1: their sex, their relationships, and they thrive on it. And
Speaker 1: there are a lot of these trolls. This is a
Speaker 1: very common thing. It's just that she's in plain sight. Now.
Speaker 2: We see it all the time, people thriving.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing about it is that everyone's acting
Speaker 1: so surprised because the name of the game on Housewives,
Speaker 1: the name of the game, the number one name of
Speaker 1: the game on.
Speaker 2: Housewives is exposed.
Speaker 1: Everybody's everything, So anybody would have exposed jen Shaw. This
Speaker 1: girl is just doing it as a sniper from the side.
Speaker 1: Everybody exposes everything. It could be something Luan's kids are doing.
Speaker 1: It could be something jen Shaw's doing. It could be
Speaker 1: something that anyone has in their past. Everything has to
Speaker 1: come to the surface on Housewives. That's what the producers want,
Speaker 1: That's what Bravo wants.
Speaker 2: There can be no secrets.
Speaker 1: Why is it that we have Teresa talking about Melissa's
Speaker 1: husband Joe and speculations about women that he's been with.
Speaker 1: Why is everybody always digging to look for stuff on
Speaker 1: Teresa's husband, Like everybody's acting like this isn't how everybody
Speaker 1: is And this is what the name of the game is.
Speaker 1: This is just a situation where the person didn't probably
Speaker 1: really as they'd ever get on the show, and they
Speaker 1: had this account doing it.
Speaker 2: But you can ask anyone.
Speaker 1: I've seen dms to and from Jill and Derinda and
Speaker 1: everybody from this franchise. With people gossiping, that's how people
Speaker 1: find a lot of their information. People civilians text Housewives
Speaker 1: and give them information and then they bring it into
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: This happens with everyone.
Speaker 1: This woman just reflects something that is completely rampant and
Speaker 1: that we've all seen a million times. It's just that
Speaker 1: now she's a cast member. That's what makes it so different.
Speaker 1: But I have had so many people from the show, Sonya, Derinda,
Speaker 1: all of them show me and talk to me about
Speaker 1: messages that fans have sent saying this is this, this
Speaker 1: one's doing that, Ramona is doing this, Sonya's doing that.
Speaker 2: That's not real. This isn't real. That's not a real job,
Speaker 2: it's not a real product.
Speaker 1: That business person really wanted to go into business with me,
Speaker 1: the Tipsy Girl guy, for example, that guy I wanted
Speaker 1: to go into business with. This one and that one
Speaker 1: and the other one. Everything about the Housewives is about
Speaker 1: information and dirt as currency. This is just the one
Speaker 1: episode that is highlighting and showcasing it, and the four
Speaker 1: women standing on the beach looking aghast as if this
Speaker 1: is something so shocking. They're just shocked that the wolf
Speaker 1: is in sheep's clothing living in their house. But everybody
Speaker 1: is an iteration of this the sala He's crashed a
Speaker 1: party at the White House that they were grifters. Jenshaw
Speaker 1: went to jail for fraud. Erica Jane's husband was defrauding
Speaker 1: people out of their retirement and taking playing crash victims money.
Speaker 1: Dorrit and p K have been accused of owing people
Speaker 1: money and things not being what they seem. Kyle's husband
Speaker 1: accused of infidelity, like Luan trying to Alley that Dennis
Speaker 1: and I were cheating while he was still married or
Speaker 1: because I was still legally married.
Speaker 2: This is the name of this game.
Speaker 1: So that's why when I see people like Jennifer Lawrence,
Speaker 1: who I'm a big fan of glamorizing it, or John
Speaker 1: Hamm or Julia Roberts, they don't realize what this entire
Speaker 1: cesspool that I was knee deep in the middle of
Speaker 1: for several years perpetuates and It was never as bad
Speaker 1: as it is now. It is another level now, Garcelle
Speaker 1: her Son, he was getting threats online. Wasn't Lisa werenna
Speaker 1: accused of being some account or of calling some publicist.
Speaker 1: Wasn't the dog in Lisa vander Pump. Wasn't there a
Speaker 1: situation where there was, like some other publicists, the source
Speaker 1: talking about that dog or that situation with that dog
Speaker 1: gate It's endless. Was it Jill Zarren's assistant who asked
Speaker 1: for the funeral to be filmed? This is what this
Speaker 1: show is about. This is just the single crystallization of
Speaker 1: this aspect. Every successful member of this franchise is guilty
Speaker 1: of this crime.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to the beginning. Let's go back to
Speaker 2: the book Coop.
Speaker 1: Without a badge on the table to expose Danielle in
Speaker 1: her past engage, nineteen times criminal record, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: Alex McCord nude pictures. That's what this show is about.
Speaker 1: And anyone that wants to pretend that this show is
Speaker 1: about female empowerment, women elevating women, women supporting women laws
Speaker 1: is delusional. It's about the demise of women. It's about
Speaker 1: the gotcha of women. It's about the trashing of women.
Speaker 1: It's about the catching other women in mistakes. It's about
Speaker 1: finding out that someone's not worth the amount that they
Speaker 1: say they're worth, that they're sleeping with someone who they
Speaker 1: say they're not sleeping with, that they don't really come
Speaker 1: from where they come from, that their accent isn't really real.
Speaker 1: That's what the entire show is about. Accountability to the core,
Speaker 1: but to a damaging effect. People have gone to jail.
Speaker 1: Multiple people have gone to jail. How many mugshots like
Speaker 1: That's what the show is about. So any person celebrating
Speaker 1: the show is celebrating that I walked out twice. Someone's
Speaker 1: got an addiction issue, someone's over consuming.
Speaker 2: What's happening.
Speaker 1: Is it being handled, No, it's being exposed. Is it
Speaker 1: under the guise of being for their best interest?
Speaker 2: Baby? Is it truthfully? Just gotcha?
Speaker 1: They say that they're recovering, and we know that they're drinking.
Speaker 1: Bring it to the table. When Jill's Arren and I
Speaker 1: came back after a summer hiatus, the first thing she
Speaker 1: said to me is you didn't call Bobby when he
Speaker 1: had cancer. It didn't matter if that was entirely true.
Speaker 1: The first thing I said to Carol when I came back,
Speaker 1: was that Adam wanted to be paid for a relief trip.
Speaker 1: The point of the matter is the rules of engagement
Speaker 1: on the Housewives are dig up every piece of dirt
Speaker 1: that you can put it in the middle, because it
Speaker 1: takes the energy, emphasis, and focus off of you and
Speaker 1: puts it on someone else. What kind of worse example
Speaker 1: can we set for our daughters than that? Do another rant?
Speaker 1: Once I watch, I don't think it will be all
Speaker 1: that different.
Speaker 2: Watch what happens.
Speaker 1: So I finished the Salt Lake City finale, and it's
Speaker 1: a very interesting dynamic because the one girl, Monica, is
Speaker 1: the gossip girl, and it sounds like her account is
Speaker 1: definitely comprised of information from a lot of different people.
Speaker 1: That's what happens in this sphere. It's constant exchanging and
Speaker 1: lots of dms from civilians, from people in the Bravo
Speaker 1: crossover sphere, and that's what basically happens. And that's why
Speaker 1: things like Bravocon really concentrate all of that, because Bravocon
Speaker 1: is like a massive Bravo trip, Like if the Real
Speaker 1: Housewives of New York go to Mexico, Bravocon is bringing
Speaker 1: all of the different shows into one place, so it's
Speaker 1: that in greater scale, and that's where all kinds of
Speaker 1: information is shared and everything does come to light. And
Speaker 1: this girl walked in as one of these troll blogger
Speaker 1: people that takes other people down. She's just a Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame version of what all housewives do, which is
Speaker 1: constantly dig up and expose information about each other. This
Speaker 1: woman just did it in a very stealthy and sleuth
Speaker 1: like manner where she was the self elected villain who
Speaker 1: was going to accumulate all of this gossip about a
Speaker 1: bunch of different people. And it did sound like it
Speaker 1: did start with Jenshaw and she said the rest were
Speaker 1: collateral damage because people just talk about everyone. That's just
Speaker 1: what this is about. And the name of the game
Speaker 1: is exposure. And all of the girls, I actually think
Speaker 1: the girls say, I don't know the show that well,
Speaker 1: but I've met Lisa and they all seem like fairly
Speaker 1: nice people overall. It's just the nature of this beast
Speaker 1: that it's killed or be killed. And they weren't very
Speaker 1: articulate in just screaming at each other and you're a
Speaker 1: piece of shit, and you're a piece of shit, And
Speaker 1: it did sound like there's a lot more under the surface.
Speaker 1: And while yes, it's villainous and heinous and and you know,
Speaker 1: a very explosive finale, none of it's really surprising because
Speaker 1: it's just a crystallization, a condensation, an ultimate reflection of
Speaker 1: what this entire atmosphere is about. And there are no
Speaker 1: secrets and anybody who decides to do this show needs
Speaker 1: to just know that because they're all just playing the
Speaker 1: game well, which is why they're now going to have
Speaker 1: a reunion about this. And I don't even know that
Speaker 1: the girl will be asked to leave the show or
Speaker 1: they'll have something of her next year. Probably a lot
Speaker 1: of people won't film with her. It's shocking, but it's
Speaker 1: not ultimately it's shocking. It was like shock value, but
Speaker 1: it's not ultimately surprising because it's just a more I
Speaker 1: keep saying, concentrated version of what's going on everywhere in
Speaker 1: this space.
Speaker 2: Is it disgusting? Yes? Do any of these women need
Speaker 2: to adore this? No? Do they choose to endure this? Yes?
Speaker 2: Are they being paid to endure this? Yes? Is any
Speaker 2: of it real?
Speaker 1: No? Because you're going on TV and you're doing press
Speaker 1: about this, you're perpetuating this you're being paid to dig
Speaker 1: up all of everybody and yourselves dirty laundry. Jennifer Lawrence
Speaker 1: and Julia Roberts get to play other characters.
Speaker 2: They don't have to be.
Speaker 1: On screen playing themselves in the name of the game
Speaker 1: called gotcha and trash somebody else, So you're not getting
Speaker 1: trashed in that moment. It's just all strategy. It's just
Speaker 1: all hunger games and Game of Thrones. And when we
Speaker 1: first started out years ago, it wasn't like that because
Speaker 1: it wasn't just there wasn't decades and hundreds of women's
Speaker 1: worth of cattiness and competitiveness and jealousy and bringing the
Speaker 1: worst out in women. It just wasn't like that. It
Speaker 1: was a fresh, blank slate. And then add social media,
Speaker 1: add fake Instagram, TikTok accounts, ad trolls, add cyber bullying,
Speaker 1: add all of it. People are miserable, and people viewing
Speaker 1: this it makes them feel better. It's just gossip that's
Speaker 1: not on them. It's the same thing in a macro scale,
Speaker 1: like the people viewing at home, it's like, thank god,
Speaker 1: they just don't have to talk about what's going on
Speaker 1: in their own lives or their infidelity or their miscarriage
Speaker 1: or their financial issues, because they get to talk about
Speaker 1: the people on the screen, so they don't have to
Speaker 1: be the one in their own call de sac being
Speaker 1: talked about. This is just a gigantic public cul de
Speaker 1: sac where you just want the bag of shit to
Speaker 1: be on anybody but yourself, and this one girl was
Speaker 1: holding many people's bags of shit. She's got the bag,
Speaker 1: you know. It's basically, let's take it all of the
Speaker 1: bag of shit. But that's what the whole entire thing
Speaker 1: has been for years, whether it's Teresa's tax evasion, Jenshaw
Speaker 1: being a criminal, Luan going to rehab getting arrested. That's
Speaker 1: what the show's about. Don't be so surprised. Just think
Speaker 1: about it. I'm not defending a sociopath or a troll
Speaker 1: or a person who runs hate accounts. That's an animal
Speaker 1: in and of itself. I'm just saying that every woman
Speaker 1: who is so aghast at this compilation of information all
Speaker 1: does the same thing, just not in one concentrated format.
Speaker 1: It's just that this is a switchboard for all this
Speaker 1: gossip about this one group. This hate account is just
Speaker 1: a formalized accumulation of hateful gossip, which is what The
Speaker 1: Housewives is all about all day, air day with every
Speaker 1: woman doing it to each other in the name of
Speaker 1: ratings and money. Successful accounts like Desmois are basically a
Speaker 1: combination of sources that provide vetted information about different people
Speaker 1: in the media, reality television, celebrities, etc. And then that
Speaker 1: information is combined and then disseminated to the public. And
Speaker 1: that's a real credible site that has a podcast, and
Speaker 1: they're giving the tea. They're basically spilling the tea that
Speaker 1: they've collected from mostly reliable and credible sources with some exception.
Speaker 1: So the fact that an entire cast and society would
Speaker 1: be agast at this, people are just aghast at the
Speaker 1: fact that this girl got away with it. But what
Speaker 1: she got away with was doing a combination and a
Speaker 1: culmination of the same thing every other person in this
Speaker 1: entire medium and genre does. Was it any different than
Speaker 1: when everybody had you dig to the bottom of the
Speaker 1: barrel and get all the meat off the bone. As
Speaker 1: to what Kathy Hilton did or did not say to
Speaker 1: Lisa Rinna in that van an Aspen, or what happens
Speaker 1: on The Real Housewives of Orange County when the cameras
Speaker 1: go down after dark, and the girls are using their
Speaker 1: personal phones to film everything that happened because it all
Speaker 1: has to be spilled out onto the table. Nobody's safe,
Speaker 1: nobody's secrets are safe. So this was just somebody that
Speaker 1: orchestrated and organized it and pulled one over on anyone else.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying any of it's right, because it's
Speaker 1: all disgusting and I was part of it. But I'm
Speaker 1: saying no one should be shocked and aghast, and that
Speaker 1: this girl should not be excommunicated from this church any
Speaker 1: more than anyone else. That would just be bullshit. Let's
Speaker 1: not forget this is the name of this game. Please
Speaker 1: do not act, Please do not act surprised. But also
Speaker 1: people who are for female empowerment and women supporting other
Speaker 1: women shouldn't pretend that this genre and this vehicle does that,
Speaker 1: because this is part and parcel for what this entire
Speaker 1: medium does.
Speaker 2: No surprise is there