WEBVTT - Episode 24: Queer Representation In Geek Culture 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:14.280 Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Nerdificent. I'm if 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.599 you wide away and sitting in the new corner of 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:22.880 the table kicked out. Yeah, it is I your other 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.520 co host, Danny Fernandez, and today we are joined up 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.960 top by comedian executive producer at Enemies of Dorothy, an 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.800 event coordinator at LAGS, which is the l A Gaming Society, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.680 Christopher Smith Bryant. Yeah, this is where I talk. Yes, 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.639 I am sitting in my spot. It feels weird. I 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.760 feel weird and I've never been here before. No, I'm 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.839 a incordinator at LAGS, l A Gaming Society, So I'm 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.480 super excited to be on your show and talk about 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.600 gay stuff. Yes, so we have another I know spoiler. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.960 You already said, what are our episode is? I'm just kidding. 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:58.880 They can see it in the title. And sitting next 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.120 to him is the technical program manager at PlayStation A 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.880 gaming enthusiasts and LGBTQ activist Cannon's backman. Hey, thanks for 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.360 joining us. Thank you so much for having me. I 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.720 wonder how did y'all meet? How do you two know 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.440 each other? Oh my god? We okay, well we did 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.960 go on one day. Okay, I'm sorry I did not 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.319 know this. No, it's it's okay. It didn't go well, um, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.320 but we're friends now, so it went well enough. Yeah. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:30.600 I think I think sometimes you meet people, especially being LGBT, 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.840 you meet someone that you have an attraction for, but 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.440 you're like, I'm not sexually at but I'm so attracted 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.080 to this person, and you're like, oh, it's just because 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:42.760 our souls are like friends souls. We um. We run 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.360 the l A Gaming Society Together, which is one of 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.360 the largest gay video game groups in America, where we 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.680 create these giant parties and programs for LGBT nerds that 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.760 live in Los Angeles to kind of meet up UM. 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:58.720 And it's just been a really cool way. I mean 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.520 I met Cannon through that and we've met multiple friends 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.480 through that as well. Yeah, you guys actually had the 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.760 Dragon Ball Fighters tournament that I was at that. Yeah, 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:13.320 we had a great time with Funimation, uh doing Dragonball 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.880 Fighters tournament. It's a really great way because I feel like, 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:21.320 especially LGBT people who moved to l A, they feel lost, 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.400 and especially if they're nerds and they might have, you know, 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:30.200 some sort of social issues like you know, aspergers or whatever. 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.400 It's a great way for them too. I said that, right, right, Okay, 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.560 it's a great way for them to meet with other nerds. 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.400 I did it to other nerds who can't socialize like 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:44.840 I can't socialize Christianize. The extent of our friendship is 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.359 sending memes to each other like four times a day. 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.920 That's how we communicate. That's all of my friendships. And 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:53.960 then that's it. And I'll see Danny like once every 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.680 six months. But I feel closer to her because of 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.720 our memes. That's a millennial friendship. And I need up 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.200 our meme game. We seen them here and there. Yeah, 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.960 we're we are meme light usually it's just only it's true. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.440 We spill a lot of tea in our in our chat. 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.880 So I wanted to talk about a little bit canon 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.640 about you work with WITS. Is that what it's called 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.320 Women in Technology? So yeah, yeah, yeah, can you tell 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.240 us a little bit about that group? Sure. So one 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.560 of the really cool things about being at PlayStation now 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.440 is we're experiencing a lot of change for the better. 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.440 We've we weren't from two different companies at Sony that 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.640 we're considered kind of the redheaded stepchild. We were the 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:37.200 gaming division UM and now since the PlayStation four is launched, 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.360 we've kind of become the crown jewel of the Sony companies, 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:41.800 and that's ushered in a lot of really positive change. 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.720 So our headquarters moved from Tokyo to san Mateo, and 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.560 we're kind of embracing a lot of modern UM culture 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.640 things and culture changes UM to kind of, I guess, 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.560 invite more people to be a part of what it 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.240 is that we do at Sony. So what has come 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.360 with that has been a lot of diversity initiatives, and 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.240 one of them was m making what we call employee 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.400 resource groups, and we haven't played resource groups. There's five 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.760 at Sony currently. There's Women in Technology at Sony, which 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.560 is our women's group. There's Proud at Sony, which is 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.799 our LGBT group. There's PAN, which is PlayStation African American 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.280 Network at Sony. I think it's PANS, and then there's 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.000 a fourth and fifth one. I don't remember what the 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.880 other on are. But having all those groups that Sony 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:26.720 has been a really really good experience because it's been 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.680 able to bring people I work with together in a 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.520 really different way, in a really interesting way, and it's 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.800 had a lot of really interesting effects on our work 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.640 culture and on the projects we do and pretty much everything. 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.159 It's been really great well with Cannon and I, especially 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.559 especially because we're running events with the l A Gaming 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:49.160 Society UM. PlayStation let us hold their first LGBT E 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.240 three party. Oh that's so cool, which was really amazing 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.080 because we we just like put up an event like Okay, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.280 this will be fine, and luckily we put up an 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.040 event on Facebook because like within a week, I think 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.680 there are two thousand people that clicked interested in it 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.920 and we're like, oh, sorry, were you having this at 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.000 your house? Because we luvely had an event space for it. 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:13.640 But I remember Cannon's like, I don't know how we're 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.320 gonna fill this, and we're like, oh, we're not going 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.120 to be able to get everyone in. But it was 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.039 kind of a cool moment, especially because I don't think 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:26.120 anyone realized how many LGBT nerds there are and how 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.520 underrepresented they are as a group, and it was an 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.200 amazing way, especially to get a lot of people who 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.120 worked for PlayStation to kind of be like, oh my god, 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:39.240 this is a huge, huge, huge group. And especially it 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.800 was awesome because they had the E three presentation from 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:49.479 PlayStation actually opened up with a lesbian moment, a lesbian 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.560 kiss between two characters for the Last of Us two. 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.440 Uh so it's just a really powerful moment for all 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.120 of us. Also, what it was really cool too, was 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.560 because Ellie being lesbian was alluded to in the DLC 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.080 but not confirmed, and I feel like a lot of 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.080 LGB characters are has have to deal with that with 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.159 the off screen you know representation, where it's like we're 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.120 supposed to assume that or even like you know, uh, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.080 to take it back to Nickelodeon, Like a few people 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.239 were wishy washy with the end of Legend of Cora 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.800 because it wasn't as strong of it ending to really 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.760 confirm everything. So to kind of just have that kiss 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:31.800 there and like yep, we're here, it was I even 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.160 thought it was like really cool because you know, I 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.520 think just from the perspective of being like a black 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:42.040 person and wanting to see you know, representation, it's cool. 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.480 Like it's it's funny how like we can cheer each 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.760 other on, like everyone something. I feel like some people 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.280 in our respective like you know groups, think that it's 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.600 a contest when it really is just we want everybody winning. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.839 Like I was hyped to see crazy rich agents do well. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.719 I'm like, yes, it get it, you know, And I 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.080 feel like, you know, it's just like there's room for everyone, 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.600 and it is funny because you know when you do 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.040 have like so many I think white dude bros think like, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.880 oh man, this is dumb and trying to you know, 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.240 s j W and all this when they don't even know. 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:23.160 Like I think it's crazier because I feel like lgbt 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.680 Q is a little more invisible, Like you can, like 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.600 someone can be Chris's homeboy and not know that he 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.960 is gay and then be like, what do you think 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.280 of this LGBT You know s j W always clogging 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.640 up trying to ruin my games. You know, they would 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:46.960 have to be blind to not know that I'm gay, 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:50.280 but you would actually be surprised though you are. No, 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.400 they just don't sometimes they don't think of it, like 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.760 they just don't what we're gonna say. You are wearing 0:07:55.000 --> 0:08:00.119 a sailor moon necklace with nelace, another very LGBT pro 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.480 you know, I mean all of the sailors. I feel 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:08.880 like in general, but specifically Neptune and urineus are so 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:10.440 and I saw that you were posting that you were 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.360 watching it this past weekend. You know what was amazing 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.880 is for a show that was in the nineties, there 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.239 was a character that said that they had they admitted 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.960 of having a crush on Usagi and most animals at 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.960 the time, the main character, if someone of the same 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.080 sex admitted that they were attracted to him, they would 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.120 be like, WHOA gross, So like try to make a 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.800 comedic moment out of it. And the weird thing was Usagi, 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.119 which is like she took care of the person's feelings. 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.680 She said, I don't have the same you know, emotions 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.720 that you feel towards me. But it was just like 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.360 really sweet about it. And it was such a progressive 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.839 show in that way for its time that it means 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.160 so much to you know, ALGBT nerds for that reason. Well, 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:52.880 I wanted to ask you guys, like what were some 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.120 of the characters and shows that you latched onto as 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.400 a child, or when did you first feel like you 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:04.240 saw yourself in media were represented. Oh that's a tough one. Um, 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:06.800 this is going to be horrible to say, but I 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:11.400 think it started with fan fiction. Yeah, I really started 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:16.000 with like fan web comics, like even just seeing because 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.640 I I mean I remember as far as like, I'm 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:23.320 really into comic books, the as a Marvel fan. The 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.400 Young Adventures was kind of like and is it North 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.840 Star as well from X Men. Yeah, that were the first, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.280 like big ones from Marvel and then Batwoman, But it 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.880 kind of started before then, seeing like web comics on 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:42.600 the Internet. Some of them were very racy, um of different, 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.160 like characters that I would ship together like people, you know, 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.120 are like fan fiction and sometimes it's just sweet to 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.360 see people that I like shipped together. I think that 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.040 was actually the first thing I had because there really 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:59.360 as a kid, there wasn't there wasn't really that much 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.439 representation as someone who's you know, turning thirty soon. There 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.840 really wasn't as a kid any representation, especially in video games. 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:17.160 They're birdel like that was a transgender bird from in 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.920 Sailor Moon. That was in Sailor Moon. They changed in 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:24.440 the American version, they changed the lesbian scouts to be cousins. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.160 And I think all of us at the time, we're like, 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.920 what type of relationship, like are you having with your cousin? 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.200 I mean, my it is just weird. I don't know 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.520 if I split my tongue into my cousin's mouth. But 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.200 sometimes how people get cannon? What about you like? What 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.800 were if not like that you felt represented? What were 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:44.440 some of the characters and shows that you at least 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.160 latched onto as a as a kid, like? What characters 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.280 did you like? So that's a good question. I grew 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.880 up watching He Man, which I think is why I'm gay. No, 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:57.400 I'm just makes sense, makes sense? Um. I think the 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.559 earliest video game reference that I can think it was 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:01.640 actually from Dragon Age. I don't know if anyone ever 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:03.640 played Dragon Age, but it was the first game I 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:08.640 played that had gay optional romances, which I played that 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.720 game every which way to get all of the gay 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.800 romances because I wanted because it was like my first 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.320 exposure to that and I was like, holy crap, Like 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.480 even replayed it as a female character in romance all 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.000 the female characters that you can romance, and it was 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.719 just cool to have that option because I've never had 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.480 that option before. Yeah, speaking of that, that actually reminds 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.040 I now can think the very first video game for 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:33.120 me was The Sims. The Sims because I think I 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.320 remember them adding like LGBT relationship and there's a huge 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:40.000 controversy around it, but when you could add, when you 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.680 could woo hoo, and the bed like that was my 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:51.240 first gay porn was pixelated woo hoo, and I was 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.120 wild too, just just the pixelated like who and then 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:59.520 it would have like almost the fighting smoke, like okay, 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.280 I'll own crazy Simsy's. I was like, is this what 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.600 it's supposed to be? When you see it's not pixe 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:10.640 laid what um? I I would say fan fiction was 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.000 how I explored my sexuality as well. Um and also 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.400 just like anime what is it? I forgot the name 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.000 of it now when it's not the manga, but it's 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:25.400 like fan made manga. I can't remember tom Anyways, there's 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.920 a lot of exploration there. But I was able to be, 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.000 I guess the best way to describe it as a 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.640 passenger in that experience because my best friend in high 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.920 school came out to me in like like the summer 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:44.599 between eighth grade and freshman year, and it was yeah, 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.439 I'm I'm a good guy. Guys, I'm one of the 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.440 hashtag woke Yeah no, And it's so funny because to me, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.200 that's also kind of been my frustration with bigotry because 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.880 it was that simple it's just like you're still the same. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.400 Why would I care like who you love? It was 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.560 so too for me to think back and as a 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.760 like thirteen year old have no inhibitions and no like, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.959 oh man, this is that or whatever. It's It's like 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.520 crazy to see how grown adults will like go back 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.960 and forth on this with nothing. And also I'm like 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.640 a strong proponent of like my own business, you know, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.480 and if it has nothing to do with you, why 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.200 would you even have an opinion on it? But I'm 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.760 side tracking a bit, but too But like even him 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:33.800 growing up, it was the same thing. He really kind 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.280 of gravitated towards uh sailor Moon because you know, it 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.800 was that same thing because they're like the uncut version. 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:45.199 They're lesbians. It's tight and beyond that, I'm trying to 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.440 think because we're both hyper nerds, Like we watched DVZ together. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.800 He made DBC has a lot of queers characters. I 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:58.160 remember we I will bring this back. Every is the 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:04.160 gay icon. We've talked about this. It's zarbon so so um. 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.439 I remember that you posted like a picture. I think 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.520 it was a Dragon ball Z related I think I 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.439 was in my underwear next to freezer and we're both 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.560 sticking our butts out as you do, as you do 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.200 on Instagram, and somebody was like, don't bring your homosexuality 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.120 into Dragon ball Z and I'd be like, have you 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.560 watched it? Well, my favorite is Danny. Then went off 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.440 on this person and she's like, oh you think you 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.880 know about Dragon ball Z And I was like this 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.760 comment I should say, I thought like I brought the facts. Yeah. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.200 I used to post these like belfies on Instagram and 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.120 I just put like, you know, hashtag butt or whatever. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.720 But I think people straight guys would just see a 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.360 feminine figure and be turned on by it and then 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.560 like then look at the picture and then realize that 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:54.920 there's a guy, and um, I think, yeah, exactly. We've 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.560 we've all been there, you know Eusually you're like, oh, like, 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:04.240 I I've done that with your post because so many 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.600 boot models that like, I'll see Chris come up, but 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.000 you know, I'm not reading the screen. I'm like, oh nice. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.760 But I was like, oh, look it's Chris again. But 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.920 you're very supportive. Yeah, yeah, very supportive. But I think 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.600 that's what happens is then he got angry and then 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.960 try to school me on Dragon ball Z and Danny 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.920 was not having it. She was like, no, well, it's 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.960 so fascinating to me because anime they don't have necessarily 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:34.920 the same weird religious, extremely structured like homophobia and stuff 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.560 that seems to be over here where they made Where 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.680 a Cure to Rama made a lot of these characters 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.560 kind of gender fluid for a reason and has commented 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.200 on this. So it's just frustrating to me that people 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.120 are like, no, it's this, when well, that's what's so 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.920 funny is all the like super weaves you know, who 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.640 want to copy everything about Japan will just skip over 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.960 that part, which is the Japan's not having their huge 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.840 obsession over masculinity where there is that kind of gender fluidity. 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.600 There's so many anime characters that are androgynous that can 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.800 go either way. I mean even like Double Man cry Baby, 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.920 like you know, spoilers, but I'm gonna give you thirty 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.960 seconds to speed past this if you really want to 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.760 see it. But at the end, when Satan has like 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.680 straight up breast and it's like never addressed, it's never 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.920 like a thing. It's like, yeah, no, I I am 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.800 a man, I have breast, I am beautiful and this 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.440 is in let me destroy the world. You know, japan 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:37.040 culture is very interesting though they because they still have homophobia, 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:41.880 but it's different. And I believe homosexuality is illegal in 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.640 Japan for Japanese citizens. Is that correct canon Yeah, so 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.760 it's it's an interesting law they have. I I go 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.080 to Japan fairly regularly for work, so I have a 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.840 little bit of experience with Japanese culture and it's fascinating 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:56.760 and I love going to Japan. But one of the 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.280 really interesting things I learned very early on was so 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:04.400 things like institution are illegal between Japanese citizens, but prostitution 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.879 between a Japanese citizen and a non Japanese citizen is 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.680 not legal. And you'll find a lot of things or 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.080 is like I'm sorry, yes, yeah, what about homosexuality in Japan? 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.159 So being gay is not illegal in Japan. But if 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:18.919 you ask any Japanese people like are they're gay people here, 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.720 they will tell you no. It's a very fascinating thing. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.880 Yet in a lot of their art nor culture, you'll 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.320 see a lot of gender nonconforming people. You'll see a 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.040 lot of queer people. You'll see people that don't fit 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.560 the normal gender spectrum, so they're very comfortable with it 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.440 in their art and in their style and in their culture. 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.680 But if you ask them straight up, like what is 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.679 the l g T community here, they'll say, oh, Japan 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.960 doesn't have those. That doesn't happen here. It's bizarre. And 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:44.760 then they'll say, if you do see it here, it's 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.399 because foreigners have come here and they've like and I 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.360 wonder if the art is that is like their expression 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.240 of it, because like, yeah, if we're just looking at 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.040 animate and like, it's so not all of it, but 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.119 a lot of it is sexual and sexual between them 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.560 and women, men and women, man and man, like just 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:08.760 a large spectrum, and so yeah, I find that fascinating. Yeah, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.320 it's it is interesting. And that's just a whole another 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.160 deep dive of a whole another culture because that they're 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:20.080 because there's just so many nuanced levels to it. I 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.119 don't think this is okay at all, because to me, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.560 the way it sounds on paper is like appropriation. You're 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.919 you're willing to make money off of the imagery and 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.080 having it in your media, but when it comes time 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.320 to actually allow it to happen, to allow certain people 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.000 to be free, now we're going to pretend they don't exist. 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.280 That's well, that's their kind of way of dealing with 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.400 anything in Japanese culture is just they if they don't 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.119 like something or if it makes them feel uncomfortable, they 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:48.760 kind of are just shut it down or like this 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.440 isn't happening. What are you talking about? I did want 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.080 to talk about, Sorry to transition. I wanted to talk 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.560 about some queer characters in Ner dumay So. Some of 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.960 the ones that I personally love would be zena warrior princess. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.080 I don't know if he watched her. Amazing You and 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.760 I Chris have talked extensively about Wonder Woman. So and 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.320 who is she? She's officially bisexual, right, which I mean 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.840 it's basically been hinted forever but and was then openly confirmed. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.000 But for me, it was it was frustrating to see 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.480 people upset about this when it was like, she lives 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.879 on an island of all women. Women know how to 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.760 pleasure other women. There's no way that these goddesses are 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.400 just sleeping alone every night by themselves. I don't think 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.840 anyone that's read a Wonder Woman comic was upset by it. 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:41.800 I think it was like a lot of people like 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:48.159 Linda Carter. No, but it's so true. And another thing 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.359 I would have to say before I move off of 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.400 her is that in the movie with her being with 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.840 Steve Trevor and people were like, well, clearly she's not 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.399 by I'm like, no, it's just the clock struck straight 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.080 this time, might not next time. But that's like, you know, 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.800 it's she can still be a bisexual woman and have 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.280 relations with a man. That's actually how that works. That's 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.840 a problem with bisex, I mean people's opinions on bisexuality 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:14.959 in general, as they don't understand that you can be 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.200 with someone that's the opposite sex and still be bisexual. Yeah, 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.040 so many people take that away from bisexual people. It's 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:25.440 sad to see that. Oh yeah, no, even to go 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.800 even a little further into it. It is funny that 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.600 type of nerd, which is basically, you know, for lack 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:37.040 of a better term, just really just only trying to 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.280 protect their sexual desires around the character. Like the same 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.160 thing with the outrage of Shira. You know, some people 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:44.840 are like, oh, it's just because it's done with. There 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:46.760 is a camp of people who are like, this isn't 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.720 the Shira. I remember who you know, it was very sexy, 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.760 or whenever they make a character more modest than they 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.520 get mad. It's like, you're not even in my eyes, 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.600 a real fan of this character. You only like this 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.640 care for your sexual pleasure and think that no one 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.080 should touch it to make you happy in a way 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.800 that the character wasn't even built for in the first place. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.880 Like you know, go to Rule thirty four and get 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.320 your rocks off, believe like the actual art and the people, 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.640 actual fans of the character, like let them have the 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.520 things they want, which is good story progressive styte storytelling, 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.199 like leave leave your like weird. You know, I'm not 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.240 going to kink shame you, but leave it out of it. 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.000 You know. The really funny thing just about Wonder Woman, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.399 real quick, they're really funny about Wonder Woman. So she 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.160 has a totally queer origin story. There's actually a movie 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.720 about her three creators, and it's a man and two 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.040 women that we're in a relationship at the time that 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:46.000 we're super into bondage, and that's why Wonder Woman's power 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.520 is the lasso of truth and she would tie people off, 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:50.960 make sense. So there's this whole like all of the 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.520 queer undertones of Wonder Woman are absolutely intentional. Yeah, well, 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.160 do you remember even in the film in the boat 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.800 scene when she was like, oh no, I about you know, 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.520 pleasures or whatever with a man and a woman, and 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.320 he was like, what did you find out that we 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:09.479 don't really need you? That is a queer like moment 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:11.800 of being like, yeah, no, we've know how to pleasure 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:14.080 each other. We don't actually need you unless we want 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.040 to have children. So, like you said, the undertones, but 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.960