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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, this is George with a very quick stand

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Speaker 1: up tour update. You can see me in Portland, Oregon

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Speaker 1: on August third, San Francisco August seventh, Seattle August eighth, Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. August seventeenth, Philly August twenty second, and we

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Speaker 1: finally have a new Boston date with a ticket link

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Speaker 1: and everything. Boston is goingbe be the last stop on

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Speaker 1: this tour, and it's going to be August twenty ninth,

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Speaker 1: and I can't wait to be back. All tickets are

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Speaker 1: at George Severis dot com if you just click the

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Speaker 1: summer tour section, or at my link tree, or in

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Speaker 1: all my bios in all major social media platforms. Enjoy

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Speaker 1: the episode.

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Speaker 2: Podcast starts now, Wow Wow Wow Wow Wow. We are

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Speaker 2: hanging on by a thread, and yet here we are.

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Speaker 1: Podcast. Ask you something, Yeah, do you think the wow

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Speaker 1: wow wow has now become like a part of the intro?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Not consciously, but I think maybe you're right.

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Speaker 1: I think you used to do it occasionally, and it's

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Speaker 1: definitely like a samism, but I have noticed that it's

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Speaker 1: now always part of it.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Well, it wasn't on purpose, I do think, you know,

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Speaker 2: especially on a day like today where I do feel

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Speaker 2: like we're both struggling. It helps me sort of rev up.

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Speaker 2: If I say wow, wow wow enough, I'm sort of like, okay,

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Speaker 2: you're on what I was telling it to myself, I'm

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Speaker 2: like wow, wow wow, wow wow. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 1: There is nothing more humiliating than feeling too tired to podcast.

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Speaker 1: When I think about the things that other people have

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Speaker 1: to do. And I'm not even talking about nurses, doctors,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, I don't know political operatives, I mean

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Speaker 1: just other entertainers. The fact that people have to do

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Speaker 1: a matine and like two shows a night.

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Speaker 2: No. When I think about people that are on Broadway,

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Speaker 2: I get scared. I'd say, that's like I wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: able to do that, because right now we have it is,

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Speaker 2: you know, two pm my time we are podcasting. And

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Speaker 2: I literally before this, I was like, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I'm gonna be able to get through it. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if I'm gonna be able to do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And just to give people a peek into what's

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Speaker 1: going on with me, I so I just did the

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Speaker 1: first two nights of my Big World tour. I did

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Speaker 1: Chicago two nights to go in Pittsburgh last night.

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Speaker 2: How was it?

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Speaker 1: It was both of them were incredible. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: the dn Theater and shout out to Bottle Rocket in Pittsburgh,

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Speaker 1: Like I was. I have to say, Blue surpassed my expectations.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was so nice. Both places were so I'm I

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Speaker 1: almost am worried that I'm overdue for a big bomb

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Speaker 1: and so we'll see if that happens in Seattle for

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Speaker 1: Leonards San Francisco coming up soon. But in Pittsburgh, which

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Speaker 1: by the way, was an hour away, it was like

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Speaker 1: the next town over from Butler County where Trump got shot.

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Speaker 1: Oh so Trump got shot. We all learned about it

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Speaker 1: right before I went up on stage. It turns out

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Speaker 1: I've been getting dms all day. Some people learned about

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Speaker 1: it from me on stage. WHOA because they were like

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Speaker 1: going into the show, they hadn't read the news. They

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Speaker 1: were like, you know, buying a drink and taking their

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Speaker 1: seats while I was like looking at my you know,

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Speaker 1: all my different news apps. I get up on stage

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Speaker 1: and I made some joke. I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it took me a while to get here because I

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Speaker 1: had to make a stop in Butler County and then

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Speaker 1: half the audience lapped, and half the audience like didn't

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Speaker 1: know what I was talking about, and then we had

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Speaker 1: to like get into it and people learned about it

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Speaker 1: from me, which I felt it was my honor to be.

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Speaker 1: I was sort of you know, the Christianam'm poor of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: just for one night giving people the big news.

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Speaker 2: That's really exciting.

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Speaker 1: So I woke up today. I say this with nothing

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Speaker 1: but love and nothing but respect for the folks that

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Speaker 1: provide me my Airbnb. But unfortunately the ac was broken

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Speaker 1: and they accidentally forgot to give me bath towels. So

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Speaker 1: I when I woke up, I was it was a bit.

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Speaker 1: It was a bit touch and go, and then I

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Speaker 1: had to fly to New York. There's doing something you

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Speaker 1: at JFK where you have to take a bus to

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Speaker 1: take you to the Uber station, and then the Uber

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Speaker 1: home took a full two hours and I got home

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes ago. So that's where that's where you're catching me.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, well that's a bummer. Meanwhile, I just had an

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Speaker 2: incredible weekend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you're just hungover. Yeah that would be not to.

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Speaker 2: Be just just hungover.

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Speaker 1: That's actually you're basically just like at home and hungover,

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Speaker 1: kind of like you always are when we record.

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Speaker 2: No, it's actually you don't understand.

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Speaker 1: I was on the front lines of journalism.

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Speaker 2: Well I was, I'm making new friends, George, you know

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Speaker 2: what that's like, or with yourself out there.

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Speaker 1: I actually want to know more about this because, as

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Speaker 1: everyone knows, you know, I'm having a brat summer. I

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Speaker 1: We're switching spots and I'm going to you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to parties left three six five goal And I

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Speaker 1: told myself in Pittsburgh, you know, there's this gay bar

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Speaker 1: that everyone talks about is called Hot Mass. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, I, I'm gonna be brave and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go by myself. I have no friends in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go by myself and I'm gonna have a

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Speaker 1: good time. And I chickened out.

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Speaker 2: You chickened out.

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Speaker 1: I chickened out. And I will never forgive myself. And

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Speaker 1: I'm I need to get back on the brat summer

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Speaker 1: horse because I can feel myself slipping back into old habits.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, but tell me about your night.

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Speaker 2: Well, I literally, well, you know, as I firmly believe

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Speaker 2: there's no ethical way to make friends. As an adult,

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Speaker 2: I think you just have to put yourself out there

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Speaker 2: and everything has so much shame. So this is a

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Speaker 2: friend I met at the Eagle on one random night.

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Speaker 2: It turns out we have people in common, and now

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Speaker 2: I've been hanging out with him sometimes and guess what.

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Speaker 2: So it was his boyfriend's birthday party, and when I

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Speaker 2: met him at the Eagle, I was like, who is

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Speaker 2: this guy? Like? He looks so familiar to me. Turns

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Speaker 2: out remember when we did those like Apple ads? Yes,

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Speaker 2: he was there. Oh totally, he was recording us. Isn't

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Speaker 2: that weird?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got good vibes from him.

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Speaker 2: He's a fun guy.

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Speaker 1: So his boyfriend is you're a new friend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're yeah.

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Speaker 1: And now he's your new friend.

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Speaker 2: And now he's my new friend as well. And his

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Speaker 2: friends are your work friend.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Sam, so interesting. So your way of getting back

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Speaker 1: into the swing of things, I guess is hanging out

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Speaker 1: with work friends. And it's not work, That's what I'm hearing.

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Speaker 2: It's not work. It just was a second point of connection.

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Speaker 1: Just when you decide to try to catch up with

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Speaker 1: me while I am staying out past eight a m.

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Speaker 1: Every night, You're saying, Oh, I'm going to go out

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Speaker 1: to the Eagle hanging out with work friends who work

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Speaker 1: at Apple.

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Speaker 2: It's not It's not like that, George. It's not like that.

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Speaker 2: We're not coworkers. Okay, we don't follow HR rules. It's

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Speaker 2: not like that you better or not.

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Speaker 1: No, I was really I was. I have to say,

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Speaker 1: I was really disappointed in myself. I was like a better.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to Jake Cornell. Jake went a hot

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Speaker 1: mess after his show in Pittsburgh, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I was Jake Cornell, I would have

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Speaker 1: befriended people at the fucking venue and then gone to

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Speaker 1: the bar with them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, didn't you even like get on like an

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Speaker 2: app or something like?

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Speaker 1: You know? I did, just do I did. But I

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Speaker 1: have to say I wasn't excited by sort of the

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Speaker 1: interactions that were happening.

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Speaker 2: Okay, rude, Sorry, all of Pittsburgh doesn't have a single man.

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Speaker 1: That is not what I'm not making a common is

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Speaker 1: one's appear. I was, no, it's not at all. In fact,

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Speaker 1: there were many attractive people. I was just like, none

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Speaker 1: of these people are people I'm currently trying to be

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Speaker 1: friend and go out with you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Sure s sure, you know my favorite bar in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 2: I told you about it, right, Lucky's.

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Speaker 1: Oh is that the one with the naked people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, I thought that was the same one. How

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Speaker 1: does Pittsburgh have such an amazing gay scene? I guess

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Speaker 1: everyone talks about that? And also that lesbian movie with

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Speaker 1: Kristin Stewart is based there.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, and no one's talking about this.

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Speaker 1: Actually, you'd be surprised. People really are. If you look

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Speaker 1: up gay Pittsburgh, it's all things about that movie, because

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Speaker 1: I just did that two days ago.

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Speaker 2: As someone who you know, you work in the news,

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Speaker 2: you pretty much break the news. You're pretty Uh, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: what how did you? What did you sounded that notion

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Speaker 2: and make you feel?

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Speaker 1: God? You know, it's interesting. I when it happened, I

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Speaker 1: was like, damn, what are the chances I have to

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Speaker 1: do like an hour of stand up comedy truly, like

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Speaker 1: forty five minutes from where it happened. And I kept

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Speaker 1: saying that to myself. I kept self mythologizing and being like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of I'm like in cabaret, like I have

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Speaker 1: to do a big comedy performance, just you know, a

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Speaker 1: few miles from the big tragedy, and then I enter

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Speaker 1: the venue and I start sort of saying things implying

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Speaker 1: that to people, like I keep being like, wow, what

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Speaker 1: a night, huh, And no one cared about what I

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Speaker 1: was talking about. People are like, yeah, it's been hot today,

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Speaker 1: and I kept no, like, no one was in a

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Speaker 1: weird mood because of it. It was completely fine.

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Speaker 2: That's so funny. You're you were really being my middle

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Speaker 2: school after nine to eleven and being like for the

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Speaker 2: Space High School in Ohio, like they're coming for us next,

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Speaker 2: Like I know.

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Speaker 1: I really was, like I told I was like, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if there's gonna be police presence. I really had

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Speaker 1: it in my head that I was like in the

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Speaker 1: scene of the crime. And then in fact, so it

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Speaker 1: turns out, so I looked outside my Airbnb and there

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Speaker 1: were like four police cars and I was like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: like there's a police presence. Turns out I just was

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Speaker 1: right next to the police station. So they were parked

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Speaker 1: there permanently because for the job, and in fact they

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Speaker 1: were off for the night because it was a Saturday.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, I really enjoyed the sort of like like

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Speaker 2: like Michelle Obama tweeting like this is not who we are.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was so fun. And I will tell.

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Speaker 1: You one of the nice things about working as a

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Speaker 1: night live performer that night was that I wasn't seeing

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Speaker 1: any of that, and I was, And I had the

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Speaker 1: instinct this morning when I was like heading to the airport,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I should catch up on what

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Speaker 1: everyone has said. And then I was like, no, what

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Speaker 1: if I just skipped this one?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I was like, yeah, I thought it was really funny.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny for like Joe Biden have to be like,

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Speaker 2: you guys, stop, don't do this. This is bad.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait, can't in fact get we can get

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Speaker 1: into it. But with our guest, how does that sound?

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Speaker 2: That sounds really nice?

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Speaker 1: Well, I am actually so excited to have her on

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Speaker 1: and it sort of is incredibly overdue that we haven't

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Speaker 1: had her on recently. She's what I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you know this, dam she's one of my not only

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Speaker 1: my oldest friends in comedy, but maybe the first comedian

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Speaker 1: I ever met.

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Speaker 2: What the hell?

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Speaker 1: Well, please welcome Kate Willie.

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Speaker 3: Hey, am I really the first comedian you met?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so, Kate before I ever started a comedy When

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Speaker 1: I lived in San Francisco. I saw you open for

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Speaker 1: Margaret show at the Convent.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, yes, I remember that show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like met you just because we had

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Speaker 1: a mutual friend, our friend Helen, And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: how cool, Like I only the only comedians I was

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Speaker 1: aware of were like people I grew up watching on TV.

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Speaker 1: I'd never met like an actual working came that was

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Speaker 1: like around my age.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah, and that was such a fun show too.

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Speaker 4: Margaret was so amazing. Yeah, and it was such a

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Speaker 4: small venue.

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Speaker 1: That was sort of cool. So it was so this

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Speaker 1: was in this like cooperative housing thing that our friends

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Speaker 1: lived in and correct me if I'm ro on CAPA.

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Speaker 1: Did Margaret move in there for a while?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So she went like basically she was at a time

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Speaker 4: where she was I think ending an extremely long term relationship. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and she was kind of just like looking for a

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Speaker 4: change while like her ex kind of was moving out

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Speaker 4: and stuff. And so I met her at a show

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Speaker 4: and started talking to her, and then she's like can

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Speaker 4: I I told her about this place that I lived,

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Speaker 4: the Convent, and you know, I was like, we should

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Speaker 4: do a show there, And so she did the show.

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Speaker 4: But then after the show, she's like, could I like

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Speaker 4: sub let a room here or something? And I'm like,

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Speaker 4: are you joking?

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Speaker 1: It was a crazy yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then she did.

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Speaker 4: She's sublet there for like two months, and I hang

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Speaker 4: out with her all the time, and she hung out

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Speaker 4: with like these all these weirdo hippie artists, like guys

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Speaker 4: who do reiki and stuff. Well, it was like twenty fourteen, so.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of white guys with dreads total

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Speaker 3: times white.

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Speaker 2: There's a dread.

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Speaker 1: Very burning man. I would say, yeah, very burning man.

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Speaker 1: It was very like Sam. I think I can't remember

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Speaker 1: talking to about this, but it's like it's like a

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Speaker 1: it used to be an actual convent, that's what it's

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Speaker 1: called the convent, and then they've made it into this

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Speaker 1: like how many people live there, like twenty five maybe.

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Speaker 4: There were like twenty three people who lived there. It's

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Speaker 4: shut down now, unfortunately a few years ago. Yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think the landlord wanted to do something else with the building,

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Speaker 4: tear it down and you know, replace it with whatever

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Speaker 4: new luxury condos or whatever. And that'll happen eventually, I

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Speaker 4: don't know when, but as it is now, it still stands.

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Speaker 3: But it's boarded up.

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Speaker 1: Oh god.

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Speaker 4: But you know, it was like this kind of really

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Speaker 4: interesting place where you know, it wasn't that cheap till there,

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Speaker 4: but it was cheap compared to other housing in San Francisco,

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Speaker 4: and there was a really neat creative community associated with it.

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Speaker 1: But what I remember it was also like, because this

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Speaker 1: was like sort of mid gentrification, it was like half

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Speaker 1: people who were true hippie, dippy back to the Earth type,

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Speaker 1: so then half people who truly worked as software engineers

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Speaker 1: at Google but like wanted a cool housing environment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, San Francisco actually having hippie is like, I know

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Speaker 2: that really did happen, but I only know what the

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Speaker 2: San Francisco of today is. So it's really hard for

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Speaker 2: me to imagine it being any form of krusty in

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Speaker 2: a real way.

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Speaker 1: It's really like it's in fact, one of the one

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Speaker 1: of my great interests is the culture of the Bay Area.

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Speaker 4: It has changed so much, and even in the past,

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Speaker 4: like I mean from basically from twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, it was kind of like the last of

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Speaker 4: the old San Francisco. Like I just saw the artists

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Speaker 4: started getting you know, not started but continue to be

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Speaker 4: priced out and stuff. And then you know, everybody who

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Speaker 4: still lived there was replaced by like a super highly

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Speaker 4: paid tech bro. Yeah, and then the pandemic happened, and

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Speaker 4: then downtown San Francisco, all the commercial real estate was

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Speaker 4: basically abandoned because everyone started working from home and they

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Speaker 4: keep trying to get people to like come back into

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Speaker 4: the office, but.

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Speaker 3: They don't want to.

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Speaker 4: And these tech guys have a ton of leverage because

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Speaker 4: you know, like it's just it's it's a sphere where

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Speaker 4: employees have a lot more power because like the high

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Speaker 4: scale level of what they're doing and the you know,

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Speaker 4: and so anyways, then you know, there was kind of

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Speaker 4: this like panic about downtown San Francisco, and you know crime,

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Speaker 4: most of which was shoplifting small amounts of stuff, nothing

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Speaker 4: really a big deal or whatever, but you know, there's

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Speaker 4: just a lot of homelessness there, especially from you know.

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Speaker 3: That like that process of just all these people getting

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Speaker 3: kicked out.

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Speaker 4: So what happened is like the all these like tech billionaires,

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Speaker 4: they all started all these like weird organizations like nonprofits,

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Speaker 4: which are basically just a vehicle for lobbying for their

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Speaker 4: political agenda. But they all have like maybe thirty organic members,

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Speaker 4: and they've succeeded in like taking over the city politics

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Speaker 4: for the most part, and even like you know, the

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Speaker 4: local like Democratic Party, and you know, got an extremely

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Speaker 4: corporate mayor in there, got like you know, a bunch

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Speaker 4: of just tech complete you know, like I don't even

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Speaker 4: know what the word is, but like the people people

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Speaker 4: in office who were just going to do exactly what

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Speaker 4: tech wants, like based on this like kind of pro

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Speaker 4: police platform.

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Speaker 3: And it's like very strange.

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Speaker 4: There now because there still is some of the kind

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Speaker 4: of old school lefty artist thing, but it's pretty minimal

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Speaker 4: and it's like kind of like the sort of cutting

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Speaker 4: edge of like fascism marketed to brawls, where it's like it.

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Speaker 1: Really is sort of a microcosm of larger issues facing

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Speaker 1: the rest of the country, and it's almost like you're

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Speaker 1: sort of like, oh, this is a preview of maybe

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Speaker 1: what's to come more broadly or something, which I already

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Speaker 1: felt when I lived there, because when we live there,

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Speaker 1: tech was taking over, and then the tech industry took

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Speaker 1: over like every other industry. So now it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: entertainment is tech, like every other industry is being eaten

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Speaker 1: up by tech, so then the tech logics like invade everything.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. But it's also the other thing with

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Speaker 1: b Area culture is like this is there's this rich

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Speaker 1: history of like booms and busts dating back to like

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Speaker 1: the Gold Rush, and it's sort of like this weird

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Speaker 1: thing where there's just like massive amounts of wealth. But

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Speaker 1: then there's like the dot com crash, and then it

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Speaker 1: happens again and there's masive amounts of wealth, and it's

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Speaker 1: somehow it always this like thirst for large amounts of money,

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Speaker 1: and this like kind of techno libertarianism always coexists with

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Speaker 1: this like free love hippie ethos.

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Speaker 4: It's very interesting because a lot of these guys, I

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Speaker 4: know you already did like an.

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Speaker 3: Episode on polyamory.

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Speaker 4: I think that the kind of way that it plays

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Speaker 4: out in the Bay Area is a little bit unique

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Speaker 4: because you have all these like tech bro nerds who

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Speaker 4: you know, are always trying to optimize everything and hack everything,

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Speaker 4: combined with like the old school sort of sex positive,

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Speaker 4: clear positive culture of the Bay Area, and so you

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Speaker 4: get like these just weirdo in cell libertarians, but like

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Speaker 4: they're making spreadsheets about you know, all of their partners

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Speaker 4: and giving like numerical ratings to like who gives the

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Speaker 4: best head and who's the most fun to hang out with.

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Speaker 1: And also that relates back to like things starting there

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Speaker 1: and then reaching the rest of the country. Like I

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Speaker 1: do feel like that was a thing when like you

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Speaker 1: lived in the convent and when people we knew were

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Speaker 1: doing polyamory in San Francisco, and now it's everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it is.

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Speaker 4: I was thinking, like, you know who, I feel like

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Speaker 4: most embodies there's mentality that I feel like regular people

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Speaker 4: probably know about. Yeah, maybe not regular people, but online people.

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Speaker 3: You know that woman what's.

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Speaker 4: Her name, like Ella or Aya or whatever, But she

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Speaker 4: kind of blew up online because she like made a

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Speaker 4: list of like all the things that she had done

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Speaker 4: in a given year, and.

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Speaker 3: It was like this amount of times.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like the amount of times that she

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Speaker 4: had had sex was like three hundred, oh and the

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Speaker 4: amount of times that she had showered was like one hundred.

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Speaker 2: And I love it.

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Speaker 3: So people were like, but she's also really hot. She's

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Speaker 3: like a sex worker, but she's also like a.

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Speaker 4: Libertarian, you know, and just very kind of adjacent to

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Speaker 4: this like Silicon Valley tech world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to say shout out to the tech industry. Congratulations,

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Speaker 2: you guys really nailed it. You did it. And I

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Speaker 2: also want to ask you guys a question. If you

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Speaker 2: were in the tech Polycule, what would your rankings be?

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Speaker 1: Go, oh, the two of us? Yeah, oh god, I

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Speaker 1: mean that's a good question.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Would you be in sort of the good personality or

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Speaker 2: the gives blow jobs? You know?

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Speaker 1: Oh like well, oh, not ranking, Like what will my

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Speaker 1: role be?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What is your role? It's sort of D and D

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Speaker 2: almost yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I hate to say it, but

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Speaker 1: I could see myself suddenly becoming you know, not realizing it,

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Speaker 1: but suddenly waking up one day and becoming the one

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Speaker 1: the cooks.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, I would definitely be like the one that

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Speaker 2: you don't want to talk to on any weekday. Like

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Speaker 2: I feel like they would be written in the Excel

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Speaker 2: spreadsheet and it would be like only for Thursday through Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Also, I think sometimes people think I'm, you know, with

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Speaker 1: a naked eye. People think I'm very organized because I

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Speaker 1: sort of have a very condescending tone of voice. Correct,

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Speaker 1: But I think and so people I think because everyone

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Speaker 1: else would be so free, love and hippy dippy. They

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Speaker 1: would be like, oh, you organize the group trip, and

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Speaker 1: then I would completely fuck up organizing the grip trip.

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Speaker 2: Now, it's actually one of your most charming qualities is

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Speaker 2: that when that you like, you even kind of like

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Speaker 2: the idea that people think of you as organized, but

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Speaker 2: it actually comes to organizing, it's always like, you can

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Speaker 2: do it, but it's stressful.

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Speaker 1: I can do it, though, can you give me that?

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Speaker 2: I like, you always pull it off, but it's like,

429
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Speaker 2: at the.

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Speaker 1: End of the day, I do pull it off, but

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Speaker 1: and I'm getting better about not complaining every step of

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Speaker 1: the way. But yes, I do think unfortunately I would

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Speaker 1: I would be organizing the group camping trips. Wow, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's do our first segment because then I really want

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Speaker 1: to get into the topic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great idea. Okay. Our first segment is

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Speaker 2: called straight Shooters, and in the segment, we're going to

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Speaker 2: ask you a series of rapid fire questions, especially this

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00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 2: thing or this other thing, to gauge your familiarity with

440
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 2: and complicity and straight culture.

441
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: Okay.

442
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: The only rule is you can't ask any follow up

443
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 2: questions or we will scream at you so loud that

444
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 2: the Internet will freeze.

445
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's not gonna make any sense and you

446
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: just have to embrace that. And that's okay.

447
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 4: And I just say if I know what I okay.

448
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: All right, Sam, I'm gonna take it away.

449
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 2: Okay, something Mackavellian or something Jack Skellington.

450
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: Mackavellian, Okay. The wheels on the bus go round and

451
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: round or appeals to Liz Trust are gaining ground.

452
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 5: Uh, appeals to Liz Trust, the Kid's Choice Awards or

453
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 5: the twenty twenty four presidential election.

454
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty four presidential.

455
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 1: Election, Adult literacy or insult comedy.

456
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 5: Insult comedy, lust for life or thirst for sprite, lust

457
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 5: for life, falling out of a coconut tree, or Ballin'

458
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 5: out to the nth degree Ballin' out.

459
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 2: Okay, all the world's a stage, or thanks all for

460
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,120
Speaker 2: coming to my page.

461
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 3: Thanks all for coming to my pig.

462
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: Okay, getting rave reviews in the press, or seeing the

463
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: brave Tom Cruise jump without a vest.

464
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 3: Oh Tom Cruise, Wow.

465
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 2: I mean talk about to tech Bro. That was efficiency culture.

466
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: That was efficiency at play. I think you know, I

467
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: think Kay immediately heard us say if you ask any

468
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: followup questions, you will be sentenced to death. And immediately

469
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: I saw she she got in line and she was

470
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 1: a nice little Amazon worker. I'm a sheep, you're a sheep.

471
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

472
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 1: We really need oh you need is two gay guys

473
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: to tell you, hey, listen up.

474
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we taught me platonically.

475
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 2: We really stifled your sense of play, and for that,

476
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: I apologize.

477
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 4: Oh god, okay, I'm not gonna I'm not going to

478
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 4: derail this into a tangent, but I do have to

479
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 4: say about the tech.

480
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 3: Bro thing that we were talking about. They all call

481
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 3: sex play.

482
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: Yes, no, it's actually one of them discussed. One of

483
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: the most disgusting phrase turns of phrase I can think

484
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: of is calling sex play and also being like, do

485
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: you play play?

486
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 2: Play partner?

487
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 4: I find you know, I mean, okay, look, if you're

488
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,959
Speaker 4: doing like BDSM and you're like a kink person, I

489
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 4: get it. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to

490
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 4: malign those interests or anything like that. But if you're

491
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 4: just regular vanilla fucking yeah totally, and you call it

492
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 4: play like.

493
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: You're barely playing, you should be killed. Like it's actually

494
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: not play. You're basically working in nine to five like

495
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: you're doing missionary.

496
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 4: It's fucking or it's having sex, and those are the

497
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 4: only two legitimate options.

498
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: Do you remember like as a kid hearing in movies

499
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: hearing someone being like, are we gonna fuck? And being like,

500
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, they're using the effort to mean sex.

501
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

502
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 2: I remember as a kid hearing like watching like sitcoms

503
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 2: and then being like, you know, talking about someone being

504
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: good in bed, and I was like, how is that possible?

505
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 2: Like the idea of someone being better at sex than

506
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 2: someone else really did not make any sense to me.

507
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 2: And now as an adult, I'm like, no, one hundred percent,

508
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 2: I'm the tech bro. I'm ranking everyone. I have a

509
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: full Excel spreadsheet.

510
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 4: It's when my parents when I learned about sex. When

511
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 4: I was in elementary school, I asked my parents what

512
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 4: it was and they said it was.

513
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 3: A special cuddle.

514
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 4: So I probably thought until I was about eleven or

515
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 4: twelve that everybody was just loved to cuddle.

516
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 3: WOA so much.

517
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, naked though, I was like picturing, just like I

518
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 4: didn't know about the penetrative aspect of heterosexual intercourse.

519
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: I'm very old. I knew about the fact that the

520
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: sperm needs to go in, but I did not know

521
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: there was penetration, so I thought I thought it was

522
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: sort of like, Okay, let's get it in there, necessary, folks,

523
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: we got to get it in there. It just had

524
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: never occurred to it, like, because I also thought the

525
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: cuddling part was cuddling, and I was just like, oh,

526
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: it's like getting everyone in the mood.

527
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: I feel like I learned pretty early on. I feel

528
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: like boys on the bus were sort of, you know

529
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: of like fingers, Oh, I think I'm getting what's going

530
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 2: on here.

531
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: Right, But I even that I thought was like an

532
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: exaggeration in the way that you would like any kind

533
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: of hand gesture is inherently exaggerating something. So I was like, oh,

534
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: that's like you're just making the shape of a vagiant

535
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: in the shape of a penis. Doesn't necessarily mean that's

536
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: literally what's going on, you know what I mean?

537
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: Interesting? So you're like, I'll do my own research. You

538
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: were like, I see, yeah.

539
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think you guys get it, Okay, okay,

540
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: I would love to know what your straight topic is

541
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: and maybe a few words on what you think is

542
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: straight about it, Although honestly it's pretty self explanatory and

543
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to do a lot of teaching us

544
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: today and I can't wait.

545
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 3: Well, okay, so my topic is like in cell culture.

546
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 4: Okay, but you know I'm not I just want to

547
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 4: say I'm not an expert on it.

548
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: I've just I've just paid attention to it.

549
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: I think it's something that fascinates you, because I feel

550
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: like I've talked to you about it before, Like I

551
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,959
Speaker 1: think you correct me if I'm wrong. I would say

552
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: you're someone who like is fascinated by dark corners of

553
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: the Internet.

554
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent.

555
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 4: I mean I think that, like, well, particularly with this

556
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 4: in cell culture, I'm amazed at.

557
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 3: The degree to which it has like made its way.

558
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 4: Into like the normal, totally yeah, straight person way of

559
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 4: talking about things like given the whole idea of a

560
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 4: body count, like that's an in cell idea, and now

561
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 4: gen Z they're just like throwing it around, you know,

562
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 4: like people have, you know, like this idea of you know,

563
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 4: like a person's.

564
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 3: Like sexual market value or whatever.

565
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 4: Like sometimes I'll just see people who we are not

566
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 4: even in cells say that and stuff, and I'm like,

567
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 4: this was like a Reddit idea from like twenty thirteen,

568
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 4: twenty fourteen.

569
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so gross.

570
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 4: And you know, the saddest thing to me is seeing

571
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 4: like women kind of adopt these internalized these ideas to

572
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 4: some extent, you know, and like think about like, you know,

573
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 4: the regular straight guys or are really going to give

574
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 4: a shit about something like a body count or whatever,

575
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 4: because it's just like none of this stuff applies to

576
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 4: a guy who's even like a remotely functional partner.

577
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: So is the body count thing that men want women

578
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: to be virginal so they want their BodyCount to be

579
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: low or is it more about like men want to

580
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: be virile and want their own BodyCount to be high.

581
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 4: I think it's both, but I've noticed more emphasis on

582
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 4: that you want a woman with a low body count.

583
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 3: Like there's all these.

584
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 4: Men who have a very hard time getting lad you know,

585
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 4: they don't they don't get to play wow, and so

586
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 4: like yeah, I know. But so then then they like

587
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 4: extra fetishize it where they're like, oh, actually it's bad

588
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 4: to have sex a lot, like you don't want a

589
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 4: woman that's done that, like you can.

590
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: Just Be's like when I didn't get on a UCB team,

591
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 2: I was like, wait u seeb sucks and whoever's on

592
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: there is bad.

593
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's like they think they like they

594
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: both like.

595
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 4: Want to have sex so bad, and they think that

596
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 4: like if a woman has sex too much that she

597
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: is like ruined.

598
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, Like if you're a guy who.

599
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 4: Is an in cell and you really want to get laid,

600
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 4: like what's your what's your best bet? It probably is

601
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: going to be to slightly improve your social skills and

602
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 4: make friends with slutty people who are kind of sex

603
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 4: positive and kind of get over that hump or whatever.

604
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 4: But you know, they adopt these like reactionary values. It

605
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 4: almost sounds like it's almost kind of Christian, but it's secular, you.

606
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: Know, sound.

607
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: Yeah it is, it is.

608
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: I mean in a way, it's not really like it's

609
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 4: not news. These aren't like new ideas, like humanity has

610
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 4: been sex shaming women since Adam and Eve, you know.

611
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 4: But I think that these these ideas kind of like

612
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 4: making making its way sort of back into society, like

613
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 4: in like a mainstream way after kind of like the

614
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 4: millennial like you know, sex positivity, which which is its

615
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 4: own can of worms. You know.

616
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: But but I do think you're I think the sex

617
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: positivity I think so much of the conservative reactionary stuff

618
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 1: in the culture wars is like a reaction to like

619
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: sex positivity, body positivity, and like LGBT inclusion. Basically, like

620
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: it's like people suddenly during the Obama years, it all

621
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: too many companies posted about pride, yes, and then people

622
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: really needed to react against that.

623
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 4: Well, I mean we were talking about San Francisco earlier,

624
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: and the funny thing about San Francisco, like it's the

625
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 4: city where extreme people became gay, yes, and like it

626
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 4: originally like that that's how so much of like these

627
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 4: ideas around sex positivity originated, even like these you know

628
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 4: kind of old school you know, sex positive writers, like

629
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about like anti sprinkle and stuff, and these

630
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 4: like these you know women and queer people in the

631
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 4: nineties and early two thousands that were you know, kind

632
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 4: of exploring you know, like making kink or having a

633
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 4: lot of sexual partners more of like a mainstream idea,

634
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: and like a lot of the kind of stray people

635
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 4: in San Francisco have really adopted that, Like they have

636
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 4: this you know, like like sorry to be vulgar, but

637
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: I feel like it's probably a safe space on these podcasts,

638
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 4: like men in San Francisco will be like eat my

639
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 4: asshole like straight men. And I'm like, don't you realize

640
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 4: the only reason that this is possible for you is

641
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 4: because of the gay men who came before you. You

642
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 4: should be waving the pride flag every day, you know,

643
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 4: just because it's like you you get to do this,

644
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 4: like you get to be a straight guy that has

645
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 4: a fun, adventurous, you know, maybe even non monogamous sex

646
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 4: life because you live in a city where queer people

647
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: pioneered this stuff, you know, and it's just like, you know,

648
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 4: it all kind of came out of the Bay Area,

649
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: and I lived in the Bay Area, like, you know,

650
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 4: in the early two thousands. I was in college and

651
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 4: stuff like that, so I was like kind of right,

652
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 4: you know, right on the forefront of like the millennial

653
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 4: sex positive crusade or whatever. And I mean, I definitely,

654
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: you know, I definitely remember like being in college and

655
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 4: after college kind of feeling like, okay, like this idea

656
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: that I'm supposed to have sex as much as possible,

657
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 4: which isn't really what sex positivity is, but like, I

658
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 4: think a lot of people kind of felt that pressure,

659
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 4: you know, and I was just like, wait, I'm not

660
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 4: supposed to expect anything, you know, and I like it

661
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 4: didn't it wasn't always great, but it was a big

662
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 4: break with the kind of like conservative values I grew

663
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 4: up with. And I understand why there's a backlash to it.

664
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 4: Like I get why people are like, no, I want

665
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: to have meaningful relationships with someone who's committed.

666
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: To me forever. Like I understand that emotional impulse.

667
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think like the way that it's kind

668
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,479
Speaker 4: of metastasized into a backlash.

669
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 3: Like both in the culture at large and specifically in.

670
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 4: These kind of like you know inzell corners of the Internet,

671
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 4: where you know, like these are the men who very

672
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 4: much like couldn't maybe they would love to live that

673
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 4: sex positive lifestyle, but nobody's interested in having sex with them,

674
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 4: and so they're like extremely angry about it. Whereas like maybe,

675
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 4: you know, if you went like fifty years back, like

676
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 4: those guys would have just had a wife, you know,

677
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 4: like they just would have like met a lady that

678
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 4: they got along with, and they're like, oh yeah, like

679
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 4: let's both be like kind of works together and like

680
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: have our friends over for board games.

681
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: And it's like that's actually like the lifestyle that a lot.

682
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 4: Of people are more suited for But I think as

683
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 4: there became you know, sort of like an increased.

684
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: Pressure to like fuck a lot, and then.

685
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 4: It became like a sort of like, uh, I don't

686
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 4: want to say, like a status symbol, but almost you

687
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 4: know where like having a lot of sexual partners became

688
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 4: something that is like bragworthy instead of something that was like,

689
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 4: you know, reflective of being a bad d.

690
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, do you think queer people really pioneered that

691
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: as well?

692
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: Queer people pioneered that. I think sex societal expectations of

693
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: sex are interesting because at any given time, depending on

694
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: what your immediate community is, everyone feels a certain level

695
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: of shame for either not having enough sex or having

696
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: too much sex. And it's like, actually, the real sex

697
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: positivity is not about having as much sex as possible.

698
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: It's about actually feeling comfortable with the level of the

699
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: level with which you express for sexuality and not trying

700
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: to conform because so often, because I've been in both

701
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: of them, I've been in like I wouldn't ta conservative environments,

702
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: but I've been in sort of like more traditional environments,

703
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: and I've been in like very very promiscuous queer environments,

704
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: and in both cases, everyone's unhappy.

705
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: I know, I'm trying to live the status. Thing ever,

706
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: is a queer vacation, like a gay vacation, and it's

707
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 2: like like day one, you're like, okay, everyone's having fun.

708
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: Like day three, if people haven't like had a sexual

709
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 2: experience yet, like there's panic, panic starts to come into

710
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: play because it's like your entire self worth is like, well,

711
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: I want to make I'm on a gay vacation. How

712
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 2: am I not going to have something happened to me?

713
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 4: You know? I think there's a like this this kind

714
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 4: of like male in cell thing. Obviously that's the main one,

715
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 4: but there is even like a lady in cell version

716
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: that kind of developed.

717
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 3: There was a sub Brennett called.

718
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 4: The Female Dating Strategy, which I think eventually got shut

719
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 4: down for being a hate supper. And this place was

720
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 4: fucking insane, so like, you know, it was like these

721
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 4: women that were like we're reclaiming our standards and like

722
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 4: we're pushing back against this like sex positivity.

723
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 3: And it was obviously a lot.

724
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 4: Of women, you know, very very very strange, incredibly straight place,

725
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 4: like no one query in there.

726
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: But were they trying to be dom women?

727
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 3: No, Oh, they were trying they were trying to is.

728
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 2: It like more like tradwife stuff.

729
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: Not even tradwave.

730
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 4: So the main things they were really against is like

731
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 4: men watching porn, men uh, kind of not doing chivalry anymore.

732
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 4: Like it was a big thing on this like if

733
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: if you go on you know, this many dates and

734
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 4: he doesn't pay for the whole bill, like you're done

735
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 4: with him forever. But then it also got like really psycho,

736
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 4: like I mean not that that isn't psycho, but you know,

737
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 4: like there was this one lady that was like, you know,

738
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 4: I went on a date with this man and you know,

739
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 4: he briefly mentioned that someone that he knew recently died

740
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 4: and he was still feeling sad about it, and like

741
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 4: this isn't a fucking therapy session, and you know, like

742
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 4: everybody was voting it and stuff, and it became this

743
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 4: like I don't know, like it was like kind of

744
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 4: it was in cell like but for women where they

745
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 4: were also I think having a very hard time, and

746
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 4: the kind of like you know increased like sex positive zone,

747
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 4: and you know, I ended up I think adopting like

748
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 4: a good bit of like the men the men's rights rhetoric,

749
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 4: you know, like this there's this like idea and kind

750
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 4: of the manosphere that there's like low value women and

751
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 4: high value women and they would be like low value

752
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 4: men and high value men just like all this shit

753
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 4: like this kind of like imagining of human relationships that

754
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 4: is not what people think if you've had relationships, Like

755
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 4: if you've had a relationship, like you know, like it's

756
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 4: like you meet somebody, you get along with them, and

757
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 4: then you kind of see where it goes, and you

758
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Look, it's not I'm not saying

759
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 4: it's super easy for everyone. Like I've gotten way better

760
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: at communicating, you know, what it is that I you know,

761
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 4: I'm looking for and what my boundaries are as I've

762
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 4: grown older. But you know, I think like instead of

763
00:36:54,320 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 4: developing those healthy communication skills for like expressing interest in

764
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 4: somebody or expressing like oh hey, I'm you know, I'm

765
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: actually you know, gonna wait a while to have sex.

766
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 4: That takes me a while to feel comfortable with someone,

767
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 4: but I am attracted to, you know. Like it's like

768
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 4: they make all these the common thread is like they

769
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 4: make all these like rules for how it's supposed to

770
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 4: go that have like literally nothing to do with real

771
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: human interaction.

772
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: Do intel men and in some women get along, like

773
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: are do they do their values align? Like if the

774
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: incredible question, like if they meet up, are they like, Wow,

775
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: we get each other like it's like magical, or are

776
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: they like no, I think completely differently.

777
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: I think it's the opposite. Like I think that.

778
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 4: They've both devalued like these like in cell type women

779
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 4: and these in cel type men have both devalued.

780
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: Like I don't want to say the other the other gender,

781
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 3: because there's many genders, but in their in their world,

782
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: in the world of this, there's only.

783
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 4: Two genders, you know, but like they've both devalued the

784
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 4: other like so greatly, and they've made it into this

785
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 4: like Okay, here's this like whole other kind of person

786
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 4: that thinks man thoughts or thinks woman thoughts, and I

787
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 4: can never understand them. And they're a serious being, and

788
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 4: I certainly can never ask them how they feel or

789
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 4: what would make them more comfortable.

790
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 3: You know.

791
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 4: It's just like there's all this kind of like psychoanalyzing

792
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 4: of like these are the tricks that work on them.

793
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: I would say, I'm trying to think, like to sort

794
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: of put it in the framework of straight culture. I

795
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, spitballing here. But the elements of

796
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: this are like, first of all, a fundamental defensiveness, like

797
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: everything is a reaction to something. Second of all, this

798
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: obsession with categorization and quantification like that, I think is

799
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: something that keeps coming up with a lot of our topics,

800
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: with a lot of like straight coded ideologies. And also

801
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to stigmatize online communities because there are

802
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: many that are very gay and very queer and whatever.

803
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: But I do think a big part of it is

804
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: also when you are doing most of your socializing and

805
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: most of your interacting with people not in meat space,

806
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: you start getting warped ideas of just like how normal,

807
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: how a conversation and how interaction should work.

808
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

809
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of like like I've seen in

810
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 4: you know, these like in cell type of dudes you know,

811
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 4: talk about like there's this like common thread that like

812
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 4: women like it if you're like slightly mean to them,

813
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 4: like obviously you probably that the idea of like nagging

814
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 4: has very much made its way into popular culture.

815
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: So nagging is from like fully from in cell culture.

816
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 4: In the manosphere, so nagging is from a shake up artists, Yes,

817
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 4: it's it's a pickup artist idea. And I don't know

818
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 4: exactly when it emerged, but I'm going to put it

819
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 4: like somewhere within a couple of years of twenty ten

820
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: on either side. I don't know exactly, but you know

821
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 4: this idea that like, you know, you insulted women a

822
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 4: little bit, and you make her desperate and for your

823
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 4: approval and then she fucks you, and like, you know,

824
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 4: it's these like pickup artist idios.

825
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 3: It's pickup artists.

826
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 4: Isn't the same as in cells, Like the pickupartists are

827
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 4: actually into having a lot of sex, but like a

828
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 4: lot of the in cells have like adopted this pickup

829
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 4: artist ideology, like they think that that is how it

830
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 4: works and really yeah.

831
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: And the Rules of the Game, which is sort of

832
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: a classic pickup artist text, came out in twosand and seven, so.

833
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of like I feel

834
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 4: like there is an idea with like a lot of

835
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: these men that what women are super into is you know,

836
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 4: if you're a little mean to them. And it's like, yeah,

837
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 4: maybe for like women who are highly traumatized that have

838
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 4: not worked through their trauma and like learned, you know,

839
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 4: I mean, but it's like I don't think that it's

840
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 4: a this idea that like women love assholes.

841
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so prevalent.

842
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: There's also something okay, and this is related to the defensiveness,

843
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: but there's a sort of general conspiratory thinking. It's like

844
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: you always have to do the thing you think is

845
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: the opposite to get the thing that you actually want.

846
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: Like you have to say something mean and then they'll

847
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: like you, or you'll have to like stop speaking and

848
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: then they'll be impressed with your silence. I mean, I

849
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: just made that up. But it's like there's always like

850
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: it's like women and relationships are these like black boxes

851
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: and you have to master them by doing really intricate

852
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, by playing three dimensional chess.

853
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

854
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 4: And I think also women, I think like a lot

855
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 4: of women on the internet have gotten into this mentality too.

856
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 3: They're like, you have to trick a man in order,

857
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 3: like the way that you get.

858
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 4: A boyfriend or a husband or whatever is you trick

859
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 4: them like you you withhold sex for like a amount

860
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 4: of time. You make them perform various tasks that usually

861
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 4: include paying for things and you know, maybe maybe doing

862
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 4: you know, physical labor of some kind and you're not

863
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 4: honest about you know, your your feelings, like if you

864
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 4: like them a lot, you certainly don't tell them. It's

865
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 4: you know, it's like this kind of like if you

866
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 4: followed like any of these in cell ideas or like

867
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 4: pick up artist ideas or like lady in cell ideas,

868
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 4: like they probably will work from like a certain kind

869
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 4: of person who is like very damaged and like not

870
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 4: somebody who's probably ready to be in a healthy relationship.

871
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: I think this is like I'm kind of I feel

872
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: like I'm seeing it all. I'm like scared at how

873
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 2: mainstream all these ideas.

874
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: Are now, because yes exactly, I.

875
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: Really was like I know what in cells are, and

876
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 2: I'm like aware that this is like happening on these

877
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: weird dark corners of the Internet. But I also I

878
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 2: haven't been paying attention to like how these things have

879
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: become like little dating jokes, like like even the thing

880
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 2: about like I need a man who's six too, or

881
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: like the like the man has to pay for dinner.

882
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: There's all these weird things, but like I thought we

883
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: had like moved on from and now they feel so

884
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: back and like back in with like a wink, like

885
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 2: everyone's like, oh, it's playful. It's playful, and it's like,

886
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: I don't know if it is playful.

887
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: And I think the biggest I mean, okay, like to

888
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: take it back. I think a big part of this

889
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: is this resurgence of which we've talked about before, half

890
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: joking about the differences between men and women.

891
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, gender has never been more back.

892
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's just like girl dinner boy logic. And

893
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: I understand that all of these are with a wink

894
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: and everyone's half joking. But then when you start to

895
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: like listen to what people are saying, are like, are

896
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: you actually joking? And I think this I think a

897
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: big part of in cell culture, whether it's man in

898
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: cell culture, women in cell culture, and a big part

899
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: of the sort of like conspiratorial thinking that I was

900
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: talking about and how to unlock something that's unfamiliar to you.

901
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: A big part of it is simply this very straight

902
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: idea of like men are from Mars, women are from Venus.

903
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: Like it's really like it all goes back to just

904
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: like men and women are fundamentally different and definitely and

905
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: like they will never be able to actually fully communicate

906
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: with one another, so you have to invent these weird

907
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: heuristics to like bridge the gap.

908
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very strange.

909
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 4: But you know, I think one thing that kind of

910
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 4: complicates it is that there's always a there's like a

911
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 4: little grain of truth in like some of the things

912
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:19,959
Speaker 4: that they say.

913
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 3: And I don't think that.

914
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 4: It's inherent or like biological, but I'll give you like

915
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 4: a concrete example of what I mean. Okay, like when

916
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 4: I you know, I've been on a lot of dates

917
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 4: with straight man a lot like in a relationship now,

918
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 4: but I probably dated literally what probably went on like

919
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 4: a hundred or maybe even over one hundred first dates,

920
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 4: like in the process of like meeting somebody that I

921
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 4: wanted to you know, spend all my time with.

922
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 3: But I noticed that there's a huge correlation.

923
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 4: Between men who do not offer to pay on a

924
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 4: first date and men who are otherwise rude. And so

925
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 4: for myself, I definitely if a guy didn't offer to pay,

926
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 4: would like downgrade him in my mind. And that wasn't

927
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 4: because I feel like there is any inherent moral value

928
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 4: to a guy paying, or even because I'm interested in

929
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 4: having an incredibly heteronormative relationship. It's just that that's enough

930
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 4: of a social convention still totally that men who disregard

931
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: it are highly correlated with not being polite in other ways.

932
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 4: And I'm like, Okay, I wish it wasn't like that,

933
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 4: But every single time I've been out with a guy

934
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 4: who didn't at least it, like a lot of times

935
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 4: I'll be like, oh no, let's split it or whatever,

936
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 4: you know, But like the guy who like never made

937
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 4: the offer, like he's just an impolite person who was

938
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: otherwise badly behaved. And it's like, I think, I think

939
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 4: navigating this stuff with like a level of you know,

940
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it takes like a bit of sort

941
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 4: of reflection and sophistication to be like okay, you.

942
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 3: Know, and to take everything to account.

943
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 4: Like, you know, it's one thing if a guy's like

944
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 4: between jobs or something and they're like, okay, he's that

945
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 4: you know, we're going off for ice cream or we're

946
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 4: just gonna pay for ourselves because he's broke his hell,

947
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 4: that's different, right, Like that's a completely different situation. But

948
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 4: you know, like I think that like straight men who

949
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 4: kind of completely disregard like all aspects of chivalry, at

950
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 4: least in this moment in time where that stuff hasn't

951
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 4: fully made its way out.

952
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 3: It's like.

953
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 4: There they might end up just being an otherwise inconsiderate person.

954
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 2: That's a really good point.

955
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: That's it really is so challenging. Like yeah, I mean

956
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: I think this is like incredibly I don't even know

957
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: what all right, I'll just say what I was about

958
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: to say, Like to imagine seeing let's say a straight

959
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: couple on a date and the man is dressed to

960
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: the nines, like designer head to toe Gucci loafers, and

961
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: the woman is like sort of schlubby like imagine like

962
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, because the stereotype is like the man could

963
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: be wearing like a flannel and ripped jeans and flip

964
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 1: flops and the woman in is in like a mini

965
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: dress and full makeup. Yeah, like is it like is

966
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 1: it like weird or something? If it's the other way around.

967
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

968
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 6: Like I don't know, Like, yeah, it's very It's it's

969
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 6: a complicated moment because you know, we have parted ways

970
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 6: with like a lot of these kind of antiquated ideas

971
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 6: of gender roles and there's not really like a set

972
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 6: of rules anymore.

973
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, they haven't been replaced with anything. It's true, no.

974
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 4: And I think that these like I think that these

975
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 4: online spaces, whether it's like in cell dudes or like

976
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 4: you know, in cell women or whatever, like they're desperately

977
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 4: looking for a set of rules, yes, to replace whatever

978
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 4: came before, or maybe even to go back to the

979
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 4: previous set of rules. And it's like it's I mean,

980
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 4: I empathize, it's very hard not to have a set

981
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 4: of rules, like especially when we haven't made it all

982
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 4: the way to a point, you know where like you

983
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 4: can expect your average straight guy to be emotionally intelligent,

984
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 4: Like I think that'll be the thing that finally like

985
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 4: frees us from this is like when straight men learn

986
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 4: to communicate and everyone.

987
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: Gets the point like, oh okay, like we're just two people.

988
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 4: And if we want something we could say, you know,

989
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 4: but we're not there yet, And so I understand.

990
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 3: Why people want to.

991
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 4: Kind of fall back on like if he does this,

992
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 4: that means this, you know, or if she does this,

993
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 4: that means this. And I can assess if somebody is

994
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 4: like meeting the criteria of you know, being a good person.

995
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 3: I mean it's like and you know, it can be

996
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: really and.

997
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 4: Like when you meet somebody that it really works with

998
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 4: like when it's kind of it almost always is a

999
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 4: situation when we're like the rules have gone out the window.

1000
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 3: Like my when I met my boyfriend.

1001
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 4: I had a great conversation with him in like a

1002
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,479
Speaker 4: it's kind of like a cafe that our mutual friend

1003
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 4: works at. We had an awesome conversation and it was

1004
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 4: really you know, it was like we talked for like

1005
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 4: an hour and it was like, Holy moly, I have

1006
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 4: so much in common with this person. And then he

1007
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 4: didn't text me after and it came, you know, it

1008
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 4: was like three days, four days, and I was like

1009
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 4: waiting for him to text me because I'm like, okay, well,

1010
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 4: the information is that if a guy likes you, he

1011
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 4: will text you, and that's usually true. But I decided

1012
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 4: we had a good enough conversation that I like broke

1013
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: down and texted him and was like, hey, you know,

1014
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 4: I had fun talking to you other night. You want

1015
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 4: to meet up, you know? And I then we met up,

1016
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 4: and I was like, he must not be very interested.

1017
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 4: But he turns out he he's like a very academic

1018
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 4: brained kind of person.

1019
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 3: He felt like to talk to me more.

1020
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 4: He needed to like go through and listen to like

1021
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 4: the back episodes of my podcast. He gave himself homework,

1022
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 4: which would be very strange if it was like any

1023
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 4: other person. But he just has such a dorky, like

1024
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 4: endearingly academic personality that I'm like, of course, that's how

1025
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 4: you would approach a relationship. And I'm like, one day

1026
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 4: I asked him, I was like, would you have texted me?

1027
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 4: He's like, oh, yeah, you know, I just I didn't

1028
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 4: want to come off too eager, so I thought I'd

1029
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 4: wait a couple of weeks.

1030
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, a couple weeks, what the hell?

1031
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 4: You know?

1032
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: Like what planet are you from?

1033
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 4: And you know, it's like these I think when people

1034
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 4: are like, oh yeah, you wait three days to text her,

1035
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 4: or you have sex with him on the fourth date,

1036
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 4: and you have this assumption that everyone else is operating

1037
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 4: with that same information, right right, right, It's comforting except

1038
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 4: for the fact that nobody else is operating with that

1039
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 4: same information that they were on your weird online community.

1040
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: I mean the whole like if you text you back,

1041
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: blah blah. That also points to like such a big

1042
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: part of this cultural history, which is like women's magazine Total,

1043
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: you know, Cosmo, and like Women's magazine quizzes and like

1044
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: fifteen ways to you know, to know he's cheating, or

1045
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: fifteen ways to driving wild and blah bah blah.

1046
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I find myself. It's also funny that when you

1047
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 2: learn that stuff when you're like thirteen, it is really

1048
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 2: hard to not think of it as fact. Like I

1049
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 2: one time read like some literally like Cosmo thing that

1050
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I'm not even supposed to be reading this.

1051
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: This is for girls, and I read it and it

1052
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: was like touch his leg and if he touches yours,

1053
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: like that means he's into you. And like, now twenty

1054
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: years later, I like touch someone and they don't touch

1055
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: me back. I'm like, Okay, they hate me, they don't

1056
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: want to have sex with me. And it's like, but

1057
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 2: that's not always the case. It's just like I made

1058
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: this rule and it's like I'm doing I'm giving them

1059
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 2: a test, which doesn't make any sense because I didn't

1060
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 2: know that I'm giving them a test.

1061
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: Something truly that like the true like peak of the

1062
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: insanity of straight culture is the fact that during this

1063
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: time of like you know, let's say nineties early odds,

1064
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: Maxim and Cosmo were right next to each other at

1065
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: the magazine stamp. Anyone could read both, and yet each

1066
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: of them was giving conradictory advice to each gender, to

1067
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: each you know, alleged gender. It is really truly, it's

1068
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: like I can't even believe it. Like it's just men

1069
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: are just like reading something that's like if she does this,

1070
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: do this, and women are reading the exact opposite, and

1071
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: they're going on dates and they're being like he was

1072
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: being weird, she was being annoying.

1073
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 3: It's like why did.

1074
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 4: She just I mean, but it's like, okay, like you know,

1075
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 4: I just don't have a naturally flirty demeanor at all.

1076
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 3: I'm a super cerebral person.

1077
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 4: And so there was a time like I was in

1078
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 4: monogamous relationships basically until I was like twenty nine, twenty

1079
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 4: eight or whatever, and then then started dating without a

1080
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 4: lot of experienced dating, and I was going on all

1081
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 4: of these dates and it would just like never turn

1082
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 4: into like a second date. And I was like, I

1083
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 4: feel like I don't know. I was talking to a

1084
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 4: friend who is you know, she's very charismatic and she's

1085
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 4: very good at this stuff, and she's she's like, maybe

1086
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 4: they can't tell if you're into them or if you're

1087
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 4: attracted to them, And I was like, well, what am

1088
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 4: I supposed to do? And she's like, just look at

1089
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 4: them in their eye and say, you look really cute.

1090
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 4: And so I was like, okay, I'll try that. And

1091
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 4: then all of a sudden, like one hundred percent of

1092
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 4: my first dads turned into like second dates. Like I

1093
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 4: just like them to have this like formulaic yeah, to

1094
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 4: just have this like formulaic way of like okay, like

1095
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 4: I can express some interest or attraction to this person

1096
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 4: in a way that like so that that like freed

1097
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 4: me and I don't like I don't have to do

1098
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 4: that anymore, but just like I needed like some like

1099
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 4: very concrete advice for like how to get over the

1100
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 4: hump of my social awkwardness.

1101
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 3: And I think that some of these some of this.

1102
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 4: Stuff online is very much like about that. Like at

1103
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 4: a friend who was really into the pickup artist stuff

1104
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 4: in the like maybe twenty twelve. He was a comedian,

1105
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 4: he's a nice guy, and I was like, why are

1106
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 4: you into the pickup artist stuff, Like it just doesn't

1107
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 4: seem like something.

1108
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 3: He's like, well, it's you know, has a bad reputation.

1109
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 4: But I've actually gotten a lot of advice to really

1110
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 4: you know, helps me.

1111
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 3: And he explains what he does.

1112
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 4: He's like, I go up to women, I start talking

1113
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 4: to them, and then I say these things, and I'm

1114
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 4: like thinking in my head, like, Okay, the part that

1115
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 4: works about what you're doing is the part where you

1116
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 4: start talking to women like that is actually that has

1117
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 4: been the main ingredient in your success. It's that you

1118
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 4: started conversations with people, whereas before you did not at all.

1119
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: And if a goal is to ultimately sleep with them,

1120
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: maybe you are trying to I don't know the details,

1121
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 1: but maybe you're trying to be extra nice, or maybe

1122
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: you're trying to smile more, and these those things just

1123
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 1: are objectively nice things to do.

1124
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1125
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's like dating favors people that are

1126
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 3: you know.

1127
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 4: Physically attractive, of course, but you know, like there's also

1128
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 4: this element of like social intelligence, emotional intelligence that really

1129
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 4: helps so much. Like if you know, the times in

1130
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 4: my life where I've like connected with a you know,

1131
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 4: a straight man or or even a bisexual man who

1132
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 4: was interested in me, like there is this kind of

1133
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:54,959
Speaker 4: fine balance where they're conveying interest but it's not creepy. Yeah,

1134
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 4: and that's something that like I don't even know how

1135
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 4: I would explain to.

1136
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 3: A how to do that.

1137
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 4: It's just like they're very good at like tuning into

1138
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 4: me and like conveying just enough that I'm certain that

1139
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 4: they are interested, but I'm not weirded out and it

1140
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 4: doesn't feel desperate, And it's like, I think that's a

1141
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 4: lot of the people who do get into this, like

1142
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 4: in cell mantosphere, you know, online dating advice stuff, like,

1143
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,919
Speaker 4: they just don't have that skill, and I very much

1144
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 4: relate to it because I'm it took me so long.

1145
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 3: To figure out totally how to have that skill totally.

1146
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 2: It's almost like, because these things have moved from the

1147
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 2: magazines into like weird online corners, they just got weirder.

1148
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: Because it's because at least magazines had editors exactly, because

1149
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: it's the same things we've been dealing with always.

1150
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: It's just now it's unedited and it's.

1151
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 3: Like and it's more resentful.

1152
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it can be racist, and it can be

1153
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: like just like way more misogynist than a really explicit

1154
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: way or and it's not seen by Again, if the

1155
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: magazine is not in the magazine sent the supermarket, no

1156
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: one's gonna complain about it. I'm not going to go

1157
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: actively into the manosphere and be like, you, guys, this

1158
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: is problematic. I'm calling the police, I'm suing you. Yeah,

1159
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: I really I think that your point about creepiness is

1160
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: so important but also so fraud because I think one

1161
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 1: of the ways in which I really empathize with straight

1162
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: men is there is always this specter of quote unquote creepiness,

1163
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: and it's actually such a difficult thing to navigate because

1164
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: I think often it is assigned as a quality to

1165
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: basically just like being a straight man. Here's something about it,

1166
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 1: a straight man just walking around where you're like, what

1167
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 1: the hell is he up to?

1168
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, one hundred percent. I had this boyfriend

1169
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 3: that who shall not be named, but George won't know

1170
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 3: who it is.

1171
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 1: Yes, he was really.

1172
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 4: Resentful that like the kind of like you know, sex

1173
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 4: positive brand idea was like really dominated by women, and

1174
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 4: that like nobody wants to hear from a sex positive

1175
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 4: man about his play because it grosses everyone out.

1176
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 3: He felt like insulted by that.

1177
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 4: But I'm just like, yeah, you're right, no one wants

1178
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 4: to hear that, Like it's gross as hell. Nobody wants

1179
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 4: to know what like a just a random guy, like

1180
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 4: how he fucks? Like that's private information, and yes, you're right,

1181
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 4: people do want to know that about like a very

1182
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 4: attractive woman.

1183
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: Sure, it's also just.

1184
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: I mean what's tough is like the messages that men,

1185
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, the whole thing is like straight men have

1186
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: taken up too much space. So now the responsible thing

1187
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: to do is to sort of make yourself a little smaller,

1188
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: give other people a chance to speak. But then at

1189
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: the same time, the way if you're dating, the way

1190
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: you put yourself out there is by like speaking and

1191
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: trying to show that you are worthy and that you

1192
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: are interesting and that you're smart. So they're caught in

1193
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: this like bind where on the one hand, they're trying

1194
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: to like make space.

1195
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 2: You know.

1196
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: Again, this is like some people don't even think about this,

1197
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: and that's you know, its own thing. But the people

1198
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: that are trying to be socially conscious, it's like, on

1199
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: the one hand, they're trying to make space and not

1200
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, proverbially manspread. But on the other hand they're like, well,

1201
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: if I don't do anything, then how will people know

1202
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm interesting and smart?

1203
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1204
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 3: No, it's one hundred percent.

1205
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 4: And it's like I you know, I really I think

1206
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 4: that like that was something really a challenge for me

1207
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 4: and has been for some of my friends, or like

1208
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 4: the guys that we've gone out with, like the straight

1209
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 4: guys like are more of a sort of like feminist

1210
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 4: conscientious you know, politically like leftist or liberal type, and

1211
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 4: they in their minds like especially since like me too,

1212
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 4: you know, it's like this new thing to account for

1213
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 4: and this like subconscious rules of like okay, he's trying

1214
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 4: not to be creepy. And so there were a few

1215
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,919
Speaker 4: instances where I think I went out with someone either

1216
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 4: one or two times and they didn't you know, make

1217
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 4: any sort of like flirtatious moves or physical overtures. And

1218
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 4: then I realized, like, oh, like now like I'm going

1219
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 4: to have to do it or at least let him

1220
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 4: know that it's invited, you know, because it's not like

1221
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,439
Speaker 4: it's not this time anymore. We're like a conscientious guy

1222
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 4: is just going to maybe be like super sexually forward

1223
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 4: if he's not sure that you are totally one hundred

1224
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 4: percent welcoming that, you know. And it's just I think

1225
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 4: it just takes so much like I mean, you know,

1226
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 4: the answer to all of this is like direct communication,

1227
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 4: but that's so scary and it's so vulnerable, you know.

1228
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: It Also, like I have to say, obviously it's great

1229
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: to have direct communication, but sometimes it doesn't work. And

1230
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: sometimes people have different communication styles and they both in

1231
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: fact think they're being direct and honest, but it is

1232
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: a different kind of direct and honest.

1233
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Do you ever meet someone who's like this

1234
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: really self proclaims to be really direct and you're like, no,

1235
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 2: you're just like rude and yeah.

1236
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: Or sometimes you're actually more fake than anyone else, like

1237
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: you are just doing this performance of and it doesn't

1238
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: even have to be rude. I think sometimes people are

1239
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: not in and I'm not saying I'm immune to this,

1240
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: but like I think some people are not in touch

1241
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: with what they actually think. So what they think is

1242
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 1: honestly is like they're weird warped idea of what is

1243
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: going on inside their mind.

1244
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent.

1245
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 4: Or people will say, you know, things like they've worked

1246
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 4: with their therapists on how it's direct, and then it

1247
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 4: just comes off as like really artless, you know. Like

1248
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 4: I I remember, like probably ten years ago, I had

1249
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 4: this kind of friends.

1250
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 3: We weren't like great friends.

1251
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 4: But we had hung out a few times and we

1252
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 4: had sex one day, and he was like, I want

1253
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 4: to keep dating you, but I don't want to have

1254
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 4: sex anymore for a while.

1255
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 3: And I you know, heard that, and I.

1256
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 4: Got so defensive, and in my head, I was like,

1257
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 4: what did you think the sex was really bad? Or like,

1258
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 4: you know, like you're not checked it to me or

1259
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 4: I'm ugly or something like that. But at this point,

1260
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 4: like if that happened now, you know, like I would

1261
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,439
Speaker 4: probably just ask a follow up question of like, oh,

1262
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 4: like how did you reach that decision, you know, and

1263
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 4: like try to understand, Like I think in this guy's case,

1264
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 4: like he you know, just kind of felt like he

1265
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 4: didn't want to put the sex part like before the

1266
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 4: emotional part so much like he didn't feel like he

1267
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 4: could fuck someone and get to know them at the

1268
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 4: same time, you know, And you know, I was just like, well, no,

1269
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 4: that's a deal breaker for.

1270
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 2: Me, you know.

1271
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 4: And it's just like I think, like with all of

1272
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 4: these like the kind of like I want to say,

1273
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 4: like the commodification of like direct communication, like you you

1274
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 4: kind of get to like this, you know, this point

1275
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 4: where like people just sort of sound like psychos because

1276
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 4: they're not interested in receiving any feedback from the other

1277
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 4: person or paying attention to the other person's reaction.

1278
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 3: It's just like, here is my announcement.

1279
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 1: Wait, okay, so this is so important because communication people

1280
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: think direct communication is like the end rather than the means.

1281
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: People are like, well, I did my honesty.

1282
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:56,919
Speaker 4: I did.

1283
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: I just said an honest statement, so I'm done. It's

1284
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: like no communication is is someone saying an on a statement,

1285
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: someone else replying with it on a statement, and then

1286
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: trying to find common ground.

1287
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like a lack of empathy in the self

1288
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 2: proclaimed yah direct communicators.

1289
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: So and that's why we're anti therapy on this podcast,

1290
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: needless to say, I mean nice to say.

1291
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it is like the thing if you like,

1292
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 4: I'm not anti therapy, but you know, like if you think.

1293
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: Of it, we are jokingly. We are jokingly we're sort

1294
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: of us being anti therapy as like people joking about

1295
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: girl dinner.

1296
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean no, it is kind of like that

1297
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,439
Speaker 4: that same guy that was like talking about the sex

1298
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 4: positive stuff. He's like, I'm gonna go to therapy, That's

1299
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 4: how I'm gonna get better.

1300
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 3: And I'm like thinking in.

1301
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 4: My head, Like the thing that would make you better

1302
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 4: is not talking about yourself more, it would be considering others.

1303
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: You know.

1304
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I mean that is so that's such

1305
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 2: good advice for so many people.

1306
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, And it's like, you know, a therapist

1307
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 4: is like a relationship where you're literally just talking at

1308
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 4: the person. You know, they don't expect anything from you.

1309
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 4: It's just a one way street of you just like

1310
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 4: spewing out your thoughts maybe the last follow.

1311
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 3: Up questions sometimes.

1312
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 4: Or give advice if you really ask for it, you know,

1313
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 4: but it's not it's not related to like how one

1314
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 4: would communicate in a romantic relationship or even a friendship,

1315
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 4: you know.

1316
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 3: So it's just like, you know, I think like a lot.

1317
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 4: Of the stuff is like a lot of dating and

1318
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 4: romantic relationships, they do come down to exactly what you said,

1319
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 4: which is empathy.

1320
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 3: Like that's what helps people be better at it.

1321
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 4: Empathy with also balanced with I don't know, a little

1322
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 4: sexuality or some kind of intangible thing that makes it hot.

1323
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 4: And that's just like I don't think that that's something

1324
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 4: that the people who gravitate to these spaces are naturally

1325
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 4: good at, and we almost need people who can like

1326
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 4: teach that stuff, but it doesn't exist, and so these

1327
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 4: like hyper toxic spaces develop where it's like people just

1328
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 4: making rules without learning that sort of fundamental like, hey,

1329
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 4: here's you communicate well but with an energy of flirtation.

1330
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 2: Wow, wait, I don't want to necessarily. Is are there

1331
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 2: gay in cells?

1332
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: Yes, someone was telling you. I don't have any further details,

1333
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: but I do someone was telling me at some point

1334
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: that there are. And also, of course there are.

1335
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 2: Sure, Sure, of course there are. We can do anything.

1336
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 4: I feel like there's not as many though, because they

1337
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,439
Speaker 4: like I feel like you can go on grinder as

1338
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 4: a guy and just get laid a lot of the time.

1339
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 3: There's probably some people who can't.

1340
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 4: But I think that if all you're looking for is sex,

1341
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 4: like the gay end that I know that I've had trouble,

1342
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 4: it's more like that they can find only people who

1343
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 4: are looking for sex versus like not totally.

1344
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, well I do think there's Yeah, it's funny.

1345
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: I think the reactionary, I think the equivalent of the

1346
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: insul in the game male community is the reactionary of

1347
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: people that are like the gay community is only about

1348
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: sex and like no, I don't like I don't want

1349
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 1: I don't like pop music, and I don't like just

1350
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 1: having crazy sex and doing drugs, Like I just want

1351
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 1: a family.

1352
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 2: Okay, I know what the gay in cell is. Okay,

1353
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 2: gay and Cell is guys that are like, no, open guys.

1354
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 2: Why are people in open relationships save something for the

1355
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:15,439
Speaker 2: rest of us?

1356
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 4: Like yeah, but I mean I kind of felt like

1357
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 4: that person at some point where I'm just like okay,

1358
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 4: like I'm just meeting all of these guys that are

1359
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 4: just like, oh, yeah, you want to be my fourth girlfriend?

1360
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 3: Really don't know.

1361
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: It actually is a really difficult because I've been you know,

1362
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 1: we've all been there, but like the experience of actually

1363
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: looking for a relationship, whether or not you wanted to

1364
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: be open, whatever, but you are looking for a partner.

1365
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 1: You want that to be part of your life. And

1366
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: then you're going out there and everyone is like, oh,

1367
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: happily partnered, like but would love to fuck.

1368
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it sounds like when you describe a whole

1369
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 4: relationship in this environment, you know, like, I mean, I

1370
01:05:54,880 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 4: just like to to articulate directly, like why what an

1371
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 4: actual kind of like relationship? I don't want to say actual,

1372
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 4: but you know, like either a monogamous relationship or a

1373
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 4: very primary relationship. If you were like, Okay, well what

1374
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 4: I want is to have the kind of relationship or

1375
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 4: if I told you that I was having a big problem,

1376
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 4: that you would drop everything, but I won't abuse that

1377
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 4: perfect you know. And it's like that sounds that I

1378
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 4: that you would you know largely, uh, that you would

1379
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 4: hang out with me, like you know, four times a

1380
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 4: week or something like it just it all sounds like

1381
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 4: psycho if you like put if you if you really

1382
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 4: begin to describe it. And so I think that a

1383
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 4: lot of these like people that get really bitter on

1384
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 4: the internet like that they're they're reacting to this sense

1385
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 4: of like I know that like what society is talking

1386
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 4: me into feels like too little for me, but I'm

1387
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 4: not brave enough to ask for the thing that I

1388
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 4: actually want or have no way to get it.

1389
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 1: And on that note, we reach your do our final segment, Kate,

1390
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 1: I got this has actually been such a refreshing episode

1391
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: because I'm like, we really are talking about straight culture.

1392
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 4: We really are, and I feel like as a bisexual,

1393
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 4: but I am, you know, I got a lot of

1394
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 4: I engage deeply in the straight culture, but also with

1395
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 4: an anthropologist.

1396
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 2: I yeah, you're talking about it, you really are. I

1397
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 2: haven't really given much thought to this type of culture,

1398
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: and I feel illuminated. Kate.

1399
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 1: Before we do our last segment, let's maybe take this

1400
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: chance to promote anything you want to talk about. Smart, okay, crazy,

1401
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 1: We might forget otherwise.

1402
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1403
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 4: So I have a new comedy special on Amazon and

1404
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 4: Apple TV.

1405
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 3: It's called Loopholes.

1406
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 4: I have a lot of dating jokes on there, and

1407
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 4: I think one thing that would be of interest to

1408
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 4: your listeners will say, have an audiobook called Audible called

1409
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 4: Dirtbag Anthropology where I wrote about men. Yes, I did

1410
01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 4: like a kind of a semi comedic anthropologist study of

1411
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 4: guys I know, and I ended up talking about a

1412
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 4: lot of this stuff. So check either one or those

1413
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 4: two things out dirt Bag Anthropology on Audible and or

1414
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 4: my special on Amazon Loopholes. Thank you, and follow me

1415
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 4: on Instagram Kate dot will it with two l's and

1416
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 4: two teas.

1417
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 1: And Kate's first album has the best cover I've ever seen.

1418
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 1: It is a like direct reference to my favorite album

1419
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 1: Live Through This by Whole.

1420
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 3: It is a millennial fave.

1421
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:33,759
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, wow, Well then let's George, will you introduce

1422
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 2: our final segment?

1423
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:43,600
Speaker 1: Of course I would be delighted. Our final segment is

1424
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 1: called straight Shooters, and in this wait what am I saying?

1425
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 1: Our final segment is called shout Outs. And in this

1426
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: segment we pay homage to a to the classic straight

1427
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: tradition of the radio shout out. You're in TRL shouting

1428
01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: out something back home, and in classic straight lab fashion,

1429
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 1: we think of them on the spot. So each of

1430
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: us is going to shout out something that we are

1431
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: absolutely living for. And Sam, do you have one?

1432
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 2: No? I think if I'm really racking my brain.

1433
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: Okay, I can this is I can do one. I

1434
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: can do one. Okay, okay, what's up listeners out there?

1435
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 1: And what's up people on planes? People pressing play on

1436
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: movies on planes. I recently rewatched Mis Congeniality on a

1437
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: flight from New York to the Great American City of Chicago,

1438
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: and I remember when I was young, I didn't quite

1439
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 1: get Benjamin Brad. I said, you know, Coursty's hop, but

1440
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 1: it's not the It's not really my type. When I

1441
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: watched this movie, now, to say it was feral would

1442
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 1: be an understatement. I almost got out of my seat

1443
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,679
Speaker 1: took you know, and started, you know, doing a mating

1444
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: ritual dance in the middle of the airplane. I said,

1445
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: this man should have Brad its career. It is, as

1446
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, it is Benjamin brat summer. So

1447
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: write that down and shout out to Benjamin Brad. I

1448
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: don't know what he's up to. I looked him up.

1449
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: He so hot, older eight in miscons Reality that film,

1450
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of things have not aged well

1451
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: in it, I'm sorry to say, one of which is

1452
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 1: that as a joke, he keeps and I kid you,

1453
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: not slapping the ass of his female coworker, just as

1454
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: a joke throughout the entire movie. But you know what,

1455
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: we've all grown. Shout out to Sandra Bullock, shout out

1456
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 1: to Benjamin Bratt, and shout out to beauty pageants. Let's

1457
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 1: bring him back. I love they are great.

1458
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 2: We're anxiety love those. Okay, let's think, let's think, okay,

1459
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, what's up everyone around the globe. I

1460
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 2: want to give a shout out to wearing white pants.

1461
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 2: I have never in my life owned white jeans before,

1462
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 2: and now I do. And I put them on and

1463
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 2: I said, am I really going to be a guy

1464
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 2: who wears white jeans, and then you're like, actually, once

1465
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 2: you wear them, you're like, wait, everyone around me is

1466
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: wearing white jeans too, and they're actually very normal. And

1467
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 2: we create these rules where we're like, I'm not that,

1468
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 2: I'm not that, I'm not that, and then if you

1469
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,879
Speaker 2: just wear them, you're like, well, I guess I am that. Basically,

1470
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 2: we're all just a collection of clothes and we can

1471
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 2: change at any point, and everything is fake, and it's

1472
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 2: actually really amazing to put on something that you've written

1473
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 2: off forever and ever and then you're like, Okay, I

1474
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 2: guess it's actually really normal. And I was being weird

1475
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: about this the whole time. Shout out to white jeans.

1476
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 2: It's pretty exciting. We're in a brand new world and

1477
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 2: now I'm in LA and I can wear whatever the

1478
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 2: hell I want because no one knows me.

1479
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: Xoxo, Sam Who All right, Kate, whenever you're ready.

1480
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 4: I want to give a shout out to an old friend,

1481
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:34,759
Speaker 4: a reliable friend.

1482
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 3: The breakfast sandwich. You know, I have had.

1483
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,759
Speaker 4: A lot of different breakfast in my life, and I really,

1484
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,440
Speaker 4: you know, I think that there's nothing so simple, complete

1485
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 4: and elegant as a breakfast sandwich. I had one two

1486
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 4: days ago for breakfast that was it was sausage and

1487
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 4: egg on.

1488
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 3: A roll. It was delicious. And then the following day this.

1489
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 4: More I had, you know, just eggs and toast, and

1490
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,640
Speaker 4: it really just was like not the same. I was like,

1491
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 4: why don't we just put the egg on the toast,

1492
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 4: you know, and also have it with a little bit

1493
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 4: of bacon.

1494
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 3: And you know, if you're looking for a simple.

1495
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 4: Hortible breakfast, it's a classic, reliable favorite. And I just

1496
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 4: you know, I want to give some love to all

1497
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 4: the breakfast sandwiches out there.

1498
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 3: Thank you for always being there for me.

1499
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 1: We love it. Well, that's huge, that is yes, especially

1500
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: you know I've been traveling this weekend and to find

1501
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: a good breakfast sanmature breakfast burrito even oh yeah, the

1502
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: whole day.

1503
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 2: It can really make your day better.

1504
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: Well, Kate, this has been an absolute delight. Everyone watch

1505
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: Kate's special, listening to Kate's audiobook, listen to Kate's previous album,

1506
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 1: Follow Kate on all platforms, and you know, maybe cold

1507
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: DM her with any dating questions if you're a great idea. Yeah,

1508
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: that's a really good idea. Actually, definitely do that.

1509
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 2: Do that?

1510
01:12:59,520 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 1: All right?

1511
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 2: All right, thank you, Thank you guys.

1512
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 1: This is a blast podcast and now want more. Subscribe

1513
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month, discord

1514
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: access and more by heading to patreon dot com. Slash

1515
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: Stradio Lab.

1516
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 2: And for all our visual learners, free full length video

1517
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 2: episodes are available on our YouTube.

1518
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 1: Now get back to work.