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Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where fourth and goal at the

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Speaker 1: half yard line is an automatic go for us forever.

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Speaker 2: I am Greg Rosendal.

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Speaker 1: I am here in my garage for a surprise podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's not an emergency podcast. There's no emergency happening here,

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Speaker 1: but there is some news. New York Giants have fired

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Speaker 1: Brian Dabole on Monday morning, and we are joined by

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Speaker 1: none other than NFL Network Grand puba insider, Ian Rappaport

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Speaker 1: to help us break down the news.

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Speaker 2: Ian, where you surprise that it happened?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 4: I was not surprised.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 5: I would say, you know, once the questions start, there's

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Speaker 5: really only two ways to handle it, right, And I

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Speaker 5: think everyone you look on the field, you can hear

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Speaker 5: all the stuff, but really the product is what it

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Speaker 5: is on the field, right. And so we've there's been

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Speaker 5: rumors about Brian Dabele and a potential firing for quite

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Speaker 5: a while, and then you see how the player react.

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Speaker 5: And it was another lead, it was another game that

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Speaker 5: they had in hand on the road, and then it

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Speaker 5: was another inexplicable collapse.

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Speaker 4: Plus Jackson Dark got hurt.

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Speaker 5: So I think this is the kind of thing that

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Speaker 5: you know, for me, was on my radar all morning,

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Speaker 5: knowing that for sure it could be a possibility. It

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Speaker 5: makes sense, and I think once you know, look, no

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Speaker 5: one wants to do this during the season, right, It

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Speaker 5: doesn't doesn't help. It only makes the season just a

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Speaker 5: lost season. Nobody wants to do it during the season.

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Speaker 4: But once you know that you're going to fire him,

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Speaker 4: just do it, right. I mean, just there's timing.

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Speaker 5: Is always bad, everything's always bad. Just make it clean,

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Speaker 5: break and move on. So yeah, I mean, I would

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Speaker 5: say it was not a surprise. And unfortunately, because Brian

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Speaker 5: Davie was a really good guy, probably what was necessary.

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Speaker 1: He chose to kick a field goal. Like like I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: it was fourth and goal at the one. They were

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Speaker 1: up seven in the fourth quarter. We talked about it

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Speaker 1: in a recapture. It's just a sad way to go out. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: their defense had been struggling overall, but they had had

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Speaker 1: a great game through three quarters. They get a penalty

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Speaker 1: on that potential field goal, they hit the field goal,

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Speaker 1: and they decide not to take the penalty would have

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Speaker 1: been from the half yard line, and then they blow

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Speaker 1: the lead in a few days later, it's gone.

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Speaker 2: I did notice a beat writer.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Pat Leonard, excuse me if I'm wrong, said,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that could get Dable

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Speaker 1: fired before the bye week, let's say, because they have

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Speaker 1: three tough games before their bye week, was getting Jackson

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Speaker 1: Dart hurt. And I do wonder if the four concussion

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Speaker 1: tests that he has done in his brief time as

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Speaker 1: a starter and then being ruled out with a concussion

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Speaker 1: in this game after running again and again and taking

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Speaker 1: some big hits, some of that is on Dart not

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Speaker 1: protecting himself, but some of that is on Dable. How

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Speaker 1: do you think like the Jackson Dart equation played into

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Speaker 1: this because you know, one thing I think people said

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Speaker 1: to make the case for DA balls, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to take away Jackson starts, you know, coach when he's

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Speaker 1: good with quarterbacks and he's off to a good start.

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Speaker 2: In his career. How do you think that worked out

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Speaker 2: when when making this decision.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I don't think Brian Dayball got Jackson

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Speaker 4: Dart hurt.

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Speaker 5: I think he got hurt because football is a violent

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Speaker 5: game and people unfortunately sometimes get hurt. I mean, there's

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Speaker 5: been plenty of really good coaches who have not been

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Speaker 5: able to get quarterbacks to slide instead of Harm's way.

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Speaker 5: I don't know that that's Brian Dayball's fault and.

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Speaker 4: I don't know that.

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Speaker 5: I mean whether or not Jackson Darts starts the next game, Like,

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Speaker 5: to me, that wouldn't change the trajectory of the Giant season.

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Speaker 5: Like there's been so many games that have followed the

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Speaker 5: same script that it's like, what could I have seen?

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Speaker 5: You know, what could I have seen that would make

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Speaker 5: me say, like, all right, well now because he got

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Speaker 5: Dart injured, therefore fire him. It's like, no, you know, look,

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Speaker 5: the development of quarterback is always the most important. And yes,

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Speaker 5: Jackson Dart has looked very good in Brian dabols system.

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Speaker 5: We are going to see what he looks like with

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Speaker 5: Mike Kafka, because this is a little bit of a

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Speaker 5: tryout to challenge, but a little bit of a try

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Speaker 5: it And I'm sure Kafka will get interviews. Interim coaches

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Speaker 5: always get interviews, and you know, we'll kind of see

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Speaker 5: what he looks like in the same system with a

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Speaker 5: different head coach. I would also say that, you know,

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Speaker 5: as we look at this thing, I mean, you have

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Speaker 5: you know, obviously the Titans and Giants is the only

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Speaker 5: job that's open. There's a couple other possibilities in Miami

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Speaker 5: who seem but a lot better this week. That's a possibility.

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Speaker 5: There's some other possibilities. But this is a really good job.

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Speaker 5: I mean, Jackson Dart is someone who with the right

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Speaker 5: coach and system and you know, infrastructure around him, has

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Speaker 5: proven that he can be a guy.

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Speaker 4: And so if you're you know, a young.

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Speaker 5: Head coach, a retread head coach who wants another shot,

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Speaker 5: really anyone like this, this would be a job you

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Speaker 5: want because you don't have to search for a quarterback.

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Speaker 4: You have a quarterback.

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Speaker 1: It's a great call in terms of Jackson Dart is

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Speaker 1: such a great starting point. Like in that game yesterday

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Speaker 1: in particular, although he's looked good overall, I was really impressed.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just his running ability.

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Speaker 1: And I do think you can get on Dable a

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Speaker 1: little bit for running like QB power a few times

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Speaker 1: it's like they're building their offense around him running the

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Speaker 1: ball quite a bit. But he did more things throwing

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Speaker 1: the ball in that game and has looked better than

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Speaker 1: I would have ever expected. In to buttress your point, Ian,

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Speaker 1: there's a great word Buttress, got Jackson Dart, got a

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Speaker 1: top five NFL left tackle in Andrew Thomas. You have

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Speaker 1: Malik Neighbors coming off of an injury next year, But

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Speaker 1: you have Milik Neighbors, and you have a defensive line

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Speaker 1: where Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, and Abdul Carter are all

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Speaker 1: signed through at least twenty twenty seven. You even have

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Speaker 1: Caven Thibodeau next year still too. For a renovation project,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty good, especially because of Dark Now, I will

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Speaker 1: put to you I have my own opinions on this,

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Speaker 1: but I'm cure curious if you have a feeling of

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Speaker 1: how the Giants want to operate. Do you think it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a full rebuild with a new front office

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Speaker 1: helping to choose a new head coach, or do you

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Speaker 1: think Joe Shane, who was brought in at the same

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Speaker 1: time as Brian Dable, could potentially survive this or even

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Speaker 1: as likely to survive this and still be running the

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Speaker 1: team in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's been no changes other than Brian Dabel.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 5: Historically, when you have a major move, it's either one

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Speaker 5: or both. It's rarely we did see you do see

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Speaker 5: it sometimes we saw it with Jacksonville last year and

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Speaker 5: what I would consider to be extenuating circumstances. But almost

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Speaker 5: always the changes happen and then it's about the next

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Speaker 5: it's about moving on, it's about fixing and all that. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, I'd be surprised if that was the case.

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Speaker 5: I'd be surprised if they made a change a general manager.

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Speaker 4: You know, they didn't.

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Speaker 5: They didn't come in as a package deal, but essentially

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Speaker 5: they did come in together. You know, I would say,

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Speaker 5: allowing a GM to make more than one coaching hire

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Speaker 5: is what most organizations do. Like rarely you bring in

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Speaker 5: a guy, you package them together, and then you say,

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Speaker 5: all right, you're done. You don't get the chance to

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Speaker 5: hire a head coach, so generally you do. I would

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Speaker 5: also say, you know, as a GM, like really what

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Speaker 5: you want to do, it's not just about collecting talent,

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Speaker 5: because I think that's important.

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Speaker 4: That's not the job. It's building a team.

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Speaker 5: And I would say at least what Joe Shane has

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Speaker 5: done is built enough talent to win. It has not

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Speaker 5: been a cohesive team, so like they have not been

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Speaker 5: you know, they have not won a lot of games,

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Speaker 5: but the people have spoken with like that defense should

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Speaker 5: be a lot better.

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Speaker 4: They got a lot of talent on the defense.

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Speaker 5: I know there was a lot of discussion about moving

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Speaker 5: on from their defensive coordinator this past offseason. I know

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Speaker 5: Brian Dable didn't want to do it, and they ended

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Speaker 5: up not doing it. Would they be better with a

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Speaker 5: different DC, I think possibly, But to the based on

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Speaker 5: the people have spoke with, they believe there was more

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Speaker 5: than enough talent on that roster to win, certainly more

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Speaker 5: than enough talent to be two and eight.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting having gotten a peek into the Giants

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Speaker 1: front office with that hard knocks, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: personally Joe Shane came off incredible in that, not just

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Speaker 1: in terms of the decisions letting Xavier McKinney and Saquon Barkley,

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Speaker 1: but just you weren't watching that and feel like you

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Speaker 1: were seeing you know, nineteen sixties Red hourback or anything

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: And since since janior.

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Speaker 5: I would say let me just interrupt to I would

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Speaker 5: just say those conversation like that feel was pretty normal, Like.

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Speaker 4: That's what it sounds like, you know, Like yes, I

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Speaker 4: mean I.

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Speaker 1: Heard from some people in the league that we're kind

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Speaker 1: of like these are the conversations. We're glad we're we're

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Speaker 1: competing against these guys.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't get that, And I talked

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Speaker 4: to a lot of gms.

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Speaker 2: You talked to a lot more than me.

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Speaker 4: Let's be ir Yeah, so I didn't get that.

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Speaker 5: Now, the decisions, like Saquon went on to be an

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Speaker 5: MVP candidate, would he have been a candidate with the Giants?

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Speaker 4: Like, I don't think so.

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Speaker 5: The offensive line's a lot worse, like they spent the

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Speaker 5: money elsewhere, Like there are different arguments to be made,

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Speaker 5: but I don't think that, Like the hard knocks maybe

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Speaker 5: looked bad to the public because you let Seguon go

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Speaker 5: and then he plays so great, But I don't get

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Speaker 5: the sense that really altered Joe Shane's actual job status.

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Speaker 2: No, I hear that to me.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it was more about just like when they were

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Speaker 1: talking about Brian Burns and you know they pop in

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Speaker 1: there like, hey, he had a lot. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: like counting up the quarterback hits and stuff, and just like,

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Speaker 1: isn't there didn't there something more there here? I'll just

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Speaker 1: give you some record, some numbers though. Okay, you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the four double digit losses on the road this year,

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Speaker 1: which is crazy. Yeah, Dables, Giants have crazy, by the way,

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Speaker 1: been just crazy. Really bad luck too, but also just crazy.

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Speaker 1: Twenty ninth in scoring since he arrived. Since the day

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Speaker 1: they went to Philadelphia Ian for the divisional round of

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Speaker 1: the playoffs in January of twenty twenty three, not that

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Speaker 1: long ago, the Giants have gone eleven and thirty four

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Speaker 1: since they hired Brian Dable and Joe Shane. They have

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Speaker 1: the fourth worst record in football. Since they won the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl against the Patriots, they have won the third

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Speaker 1: least amount of games, So Giants are thirtieth, Browns and

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Speaker 1: Jets are two wins behind. And if you break it down,

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Speaker 1: if you start like since they fired Coughlin's second worst

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Speaker 1: since McAdoo, fourth worst since Shermer, second worst since Judge,

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Speaker 1: fourth worst, like, they have consistently been a bottom five franchise.

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Speaker 2: Which is crazy to say.

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Speaker 1: Has felt like that, I guess so, but it's just

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Speaker 1: like you, the Giants ownership has been getting a lot

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Speaker 1: of I think, benefit of the doubt for a long

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Speaker 1: time for being good ownership because of what happened, you know,

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Speaker 1: before the last twelve years. But the reality is they

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Speaker 1: have not made a good decision, And personally, I do

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Speaker 1: think it's cleaner when you have a full teardown and

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Speaker 1: the GM and the coach are starting at the same time.

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Speaker 2: But we'll see if you tend to think that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we'll do that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't, And I also am not sure that's true.

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Speaker 5: And the reason why I would say that is because

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Speaker 5: it's a hard job and at the beginning a lot

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Speaker 5: of people are not good at It's just it's really hard.

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Speaker 5: Like I'll give you another example. The Commander's right, great

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Speaker 5: offseason last year. Everything that Adam Peters did work right.

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Speaker 5: I mean they had the second pick of quarterback. Now

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Speaker 5: both them, you know, Caleb Williams and Jane Danels are

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Speaker 5: both looking good now, but they had the second pick

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Speaker 5: of quarterback. And every every veteran that Adam Peters brought

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Speaker 5: in worked and they went deep into the playoffs. This year,

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Speaker 5: everything has been bad the whole every move. It seems

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Speaker 5: like veterans are looking lower. Some of the high price

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Speaker 5: additions they made have not worked. Like, now, does that

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Speaker 5: mean Adam Peters as bad as No, It's like these

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Speaker 5: are hard jobs, these are huge decisions, and people make

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Speaker 5: mistakes and I think the only way to really get

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Speaker 5: better unless you just have a Ferrari that you just

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Speaker 5: get behind the wheel of and you're like ready to roll,

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Speaker 5: you know, which there's a couple of those.

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Speaker 4: They're really hard. And my sense is, considering.

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Speaker 5: That he's built a ton of team with a lot

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Speaker 5: of talent, and considering he has the experience of making

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Speaker 5: mistakes over the last three years, it feels like they

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Speaker 5: will be better off with Joe Shane as GM than

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Speaker 5: you know, someone else who does not have this experience,

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Speaker 5: because historically there's almost no retread GMS.

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Speaker 4: It just doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think look, if you look at some

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Speaker 1: of the drafts there with them, they've had been pretty

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Speaker 1: big swings and missus too. They had Evan Neil was

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Speaker 1: their first draft pick in the MIDI. They had Deonday Banks,

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Speaker 1: which is a pretty big miss. Last year's class which

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Speaker 1: looked really good last year looks solid. But you know,

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Speaker 1: Tyler Newbin, Drew who is it in the back end,

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Speaker 1: Drew Phillips.

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Speaker 5: You know, they've they've been okay, like Neighbors. You know,

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Speaker 5: injuries happen, but Neighbors doesn't get injured. That's looking like

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Speaker 5: a win. So it's like there's it's like it's like,

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Speaker 5: you know, not everyone can be like like the Browns

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Speaker 5: draft class they are like all going to be good

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Speaker 5: this year.

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Speaker 4: Like that's you know, like they can't all be like that.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, my general argument, not just as it pertains

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Speaker 5: to Joe Shane, is unless it's like two systems clashing

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Speaker 5: where the guys a total jerk and a head coach

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Speaker 5: refuses to work with him, which is not the case here,

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Speaker 5: I think they'll be better off having a GM.

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Speaker 4: Who's been through it.

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Speaker 5: He's put enough talent on the field and will work

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Speaker 5: with the next head coach that he will help high

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Speaker 5: That is my general thought.

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Speaker 1: Mike Kafka and yeah, you mentioned I should have, but

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Speaker 1: you know you're the real newsman. I should have mentioned

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Speaker 1: it right off the top of Mike Kafka is the

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Speaker 1: interim head coach. They did not fire Shane Bowen, who's

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Speaker 1: their defensive coordinator, and Kafka's gotten a lot of head

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Speaker 1: coaching interviews over the last three or four years. He

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Speaker 1: had his time in Kansas City with Patrick Mahomes. It

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Speaker 1: could be interesting to see what he does because the

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Speaker 1: number one thing I would think they're looking for out

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Speaker 1: of a head coach is who can maximize Jackson Dart.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I do compare it a little bit

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Speaker 1: to the Drake May situation a year ago. I think

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Speaker 1: Drake May physically was more obviously going to be a dude.

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Speaker 1: That's my own personal bias. I thought that before the

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Speaker 1: Patriots took him. But Jackson Dart has played to a

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Speaker 1: level where he looks like a dude as well, So

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Speaker 1: everything should be about maximizing Jackson Dart will rap at

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Speaker 1: least on the Giants just with do you think if

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Speaker 1: he has a realistic chance to maybe be the dude Mike.

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Speaker 4: Kafka, Uh yeah, I kind of do.

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Speaker 5: And it's been interesting because, like, on one hand, he's

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Speaker 5: Brian Dables guy they able hired him, but he's not

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Speaker 5: only Brian Daboles guy. He's been in a lot of

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Speaker 5: different places. He is a good enough leader, he has

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Speaker 5: you know, sort of done it, like the league has

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Speaker 5: done a good job of putting guys in position to lead,

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Speaker 5: Like he's done the Senior Bowl, you know, and like

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Speaker 5: coach to the Senior Bowl, like and from what I

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Speaker 5: was told, got pretty good reviews doing it.

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Speaker 4: So like I think he does have a chance.

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Speaker 5: Now, it'd be a surprise because it almost never happens.

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Speaker 5: But like he's well, he's he's well thought of as

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Speaker 5: a as a off it'sive coordinator. He has had head

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Speaker 5: coach interviews. I think in particular in Seattle he did

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Speaker 5: really well. Didn't get it, but did well. So I

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Speaker 5: do think he has a chance and probably you know,

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Speaker 5: probably should.

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Speaker 2: Mm before I let you go, since you're here. It's

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Speaker 2: been a while.

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Speaker 1: By the way, if you go back to like the

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Speaker 1: early NFL daily days, I mean rap sheet was on

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Speaker 1: there all the time. But now now he's on NFL Network.

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Speaker 1: You he's always always been on a villa. He's on

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Speaker 1: pass back of fee probably right now.

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Speaker 4: I always come on when I always come on when

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Speaker 4: I'm asked.

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Speaker 1: You really do you're the man you broke the news that,

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Speaker 1: or at least you were the first one I saw

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Speaker 1: that Joe Burrow is back at practice this week.

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Speaker 2: Is there is there.

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Speaker 1: Anything to I mean, it's November tenth, Uh they started

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Speaker 1: his activation. That even if he joins the team and

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Speaker 1: plays at the end of that activation, which I would

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Speaker 1: think is possible, that's earlier than I expected. What what

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about Joe Burrow before you go

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Speaker 1: off into wherever the insiders hide during the day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty cool news, I have to say.

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Speaker 5: For the Cincinnati Bengals, you know, it's it really I'm

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Speaker 5: not there and they're about to go on the practice

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Speaker 5: field in a couple of minutes as we're taping this now.

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Speaker 5: But you know, you talk about a dude like that,

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Speaker 5: guy's a dude, and for him to be out on

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Speaker 5: the practice field like that is going to give them

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Speaker 5: the kind of balance that you can't manufacture.

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Speaker 4: Manufacture.

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Speaker 5: They have been you know, they've won some games. They're

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Speaker 5: not out of it, are I think three and six.

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Speaker 4: Right, isn't that the record?

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Speaker 2: Three and three and six?

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Speaker 3: Yes, this week, if they can, you know, come out

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Speaker 3: and play well enough, maybe win a game or two,

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Speaker 3: God forbid, they go two and one over the next

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Speaker 3: three games, Like Joe Burrow could be back with a

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Speaker 3: chance to help this team get to the playoffs.

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Speaker 4: Like it's crazy, but it's not that crazy.

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Speaker 5: And like I would also say this three and six,

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Speaker 5: like you, it's uphill battle, but you got a chance.

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Speaker 5: I think he would probably be back almost anyway, Like

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Speaker 5: I just I don't know that it was ever a decision.

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Speaker 5: I think it was like, as soon as I can

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Speaker 5: come back, I'm coming back.

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Speaker 4: And that is pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, by by all accounts, in terms of how they

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Speaker 1: run the offense, maybe even how they're deciding to sign people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's kind of the boss and he should be.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's the most important person in the organization

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Speaker 1: and if he wants to play, they're not gonna stop.

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Speaker 1: You don't think there's any chance of like him playing Sunday?

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Speaker 2: Do you not?

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Speaker 4: Sunday? Now? I have to look at the schedule.

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Speaker 2: It's the Patriots the week after the problem is and.

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Speaker 4: It makes Sunday Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, They're all Sundays coming up, and then a Thursday,

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Speaker 1: sorry on Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 6: That would be interesting. Wait a minutes Thanksgiving night. I

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Speaker 6: mean that's how many days eighteen days from now? Yes, possible,

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Speaker 6: That's crazy and possible.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: It kind of breaks my heart though, that they blew

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Speaker 1: the Jets game and the Bears game because Wacko played

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Speaker 1: so well, and if they had just won one of

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Speaker 1: those two, hell, if they had won both those, they'd

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Speaker 1: be five and four and Joe Burrow coming back in

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Speaker 1: a few weeks.

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Speaker 2: Like they could afford to lose.

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Speaker 1: Because their schedule gets tougher now and it really it

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Speaker 1: bums me out that they could be three and eight.

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Speaker 4: But we'll see because you know, he comes back again.

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Speaker 5: Like say they go two and one. So let's say

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Speaker 5: they're five and seven.

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Speaker 2: Sure, five and seconds nut scenario.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a chance, but you're also playing the Steelers,

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Speaker 1: the Patriots, the Ravens, the Bills, the Ravens in the

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Speaker 1: next five weeks. So they kind of just got through

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Speaker 1: the easy part of their schedule. Unfortunately they got some

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Speaker 1: tough ones, but they could take out Pittsburgh. Appreciate you

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Speaker 1: making the time on a busy day.

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Speaker 2: Ian. You're more than just an insider.

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Speaker 1: You're a man, you're a husband, you're a father, and

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Speaker 1: you're a friend.

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Speaker 2: We've known each other a long time.

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Speaker 4: Now we know each other a long time.

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Speaker 1: We've been through a lot. I appreciate you and we

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Speaker 1: will be back tonight. By the way, this is a

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Speaker 1: surprise episode, so we would back join us YouTube live

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Speaker 1: after Eagles and Packers.

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Speaker 2: Me and Pick Shook. We will see you the