Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
Speaker 1: mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I am
Speaker 1: your host, Rams's job.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsey's job. I am q Ward. You are
Speaker 2: tuned into Civic siden, Yes you.
Speaker 1: Are, and we got some stuff to talk about today,
Speaker 1: so please stick around. Today. We are going to stand
Speaker 1: in solidarity with our Muslim sisters, in particular because, as
Speaker 1: it turns out, Muslim women are having their hit jobs
Speaker 1: torn off by police all over America, and this is
Speaker 1: something that we wanted to talk about and we really
Speaker 1: wanted to have a Muslim woman on the show, but
Speaker 1: it just hasn't timed out, and we wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure that we got to the conversation while it was
Speaker 1: still more or less in the news, so that you
Speaker 1: could you find the articles and do whatever research you
Speaker 1: wanted to do to supplement that. Also, we're going to
Speaker 1: spend some time talking about Donald Trump, Joe Biden, their debate,
Speaker 1: and the Supreme Court. So some housekeeping, some maintenance, some
Speaker 1: catching up that we've had to do because we haven't
Speaker 1: really been able to spend anytime in the past few
Speaker 1: episodes discussing the goings on that are central to politics
Speaker 1: in this country and exactly what is at stake, And
Speaker 1: so we are going to again spend some time discussing.
Speaker 1: Really we have to talk about the Supreme Court because
Speaker 1: we are kind of in some unprecedented scary times. But
Speaker 1: also we need to, you know, speak to the concerns
Speaker 1: surrounding the two candidates and help each other because we're
Speaker 1: still processing it as well, but help each other reconcile
Speaker 1: what a path forward looks like. There will be a
Speaker 1: path forward. We do have to make a decision as
Speaker 1: a country, and we need to make sure that it's
Speaker 1: the right one. So that and so much more to
Speaker 1: stick around for here on Civic Cipher. But before we
Speaker 1: get there, like we always do it, this time, let's
Speaker 1: start off with excellence, shall we? I think you shall.
Speaker 2: This week's Ebony Excellence ironically sponsored by Actively black. There
Speaker 2: is greatness in our DNA visit actively black dot com.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to highlight actively black and their founder
Speaker 2: Lannie Smith and congratulate them for providing the apparel and
Speaker 2: uniforms for the Nigerian Olympic team. As the Olympics are
Speaker 2: in a few weeks now. That's a really really big deal.
Speaker 2: So Actively Black is a black owned entity created by
Speaker 2: former professional basketball player, and that's NBA player Lannie Smith.
Speaker 2: We saw avoidant representation, ownership, and investment back into our
Speaker 2: communities from existing brands that have profited billions by utilizing
Speaker 2: black talent, black culture, and black consumerism. This is a
Speaker 2: brand designed by us for us the mission to uplift
Speaker 2: and reinvest back into black into the Black community, and
Speaker 2: to improve the mental health and physical fitness of our people.
Speaker 2: We are not building an apparel brand. The clothes are
Speaker 2: just the uniform for the movement. I love that everybody
Speaker 2: is welcome to purchase where and support Actively Black, regardless
Speaker 2: of race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. As long as
Speaker 2: you know and support the purpose and the mission to
Speaker 2: uplift the Black community, you are welcome into our tribe.
Speaker 2: And a quote from founder Lannie Smith, We're not asking
Speaker 2: for a seat at the table anymore. We are building
Speaker 2: our own table. I've had the opportunity to meet and
Speaker 2: spend time with brother Lannie, and he's an incredible brother.
Speaker 2: The brand is incredible. Please check out actively black dot
Speaker 2: com and look for actively Black on the Nigerian national
Speaker 2: team at this year's Olympics.
Speaker 1: Real quick, I want to add something before we move
Speaker 1: on that a lot of times non black people will
Speaker 1: look at black stuff like it's not for them. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that's rarely is that true? And I think actively
Speaker 1: black is putting that on full display. So I love that. Okay.
Speaker 1: So again, we wanted to cover this story a little
Speaker 1: bit sooner because we had heard about these instances of
Speaker 1: Muslim women at the protest on the college campuses in
Speaker 1: support of Palestine being attacked on the campuses and specifically
Speaker 1: having their hit jobs removed, and that is something that
Speaker 1: was always very sensitive. It's a sensitive topic, you know.
Speaker 1: To Q into me, we know people who are Muslim,
Speaker 1: and then women in particular, we know how much discrimination
Speaker 1: and fear comes with wearing that out in public, because
Speaker 1: there are people who are looking for the easily identifiable
Speaker 1: others in this country, as Q would say, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's kind of like a wheel that keeps turning. For
Speaker 1: a while. It'll be Black people for a while, It'll
Speaker 1: be you know, Mexican people for a while. It'll be
Speaker 1: Asian people for a while, It'll be folks from the
Speaker 1: Middle East, Muslim people, et cetera. But you know, we
Speaker 1: all noticed something around here in two thousand and one
Speaker 1: because we were alive back then, but we noticed that,
Speaker 1: you know, there was a shift in the country in
Speaker 1: the way that the country approached Muslim people, and the
Speaker 1: way the news covered Muslim people, and the way that
Speaker 1: the jokes went back and forth on stage about Muslim people.
Speaker 1: And somehow the faith known as Islam became associated with
Speaker 1: terrorism and suicide bombings and all of these things that
Speaker 1: that is not what the faith is about. Just a
Speaker 1: little bit of background on me. I grew up Christian.
Speaker 1: My father was a Christian minister, but my father had
Speaker 1: his doctorate in theology, meaning that he had to study
Speaker 1: all of the religions, not just Christianity. And one of
Speaker 1: the things that I've said many times throughout my life
Speaker 1: is that where education exists, prejudice cannot. And often enough,
Speaker 1: that's the truth. Education and prejudice are like natural enemies
Speaker 1: to each other. My father was not a prejudiced man
Speaker 1: when it came to other faiths, certainly not Abrahamic religions
Speaker 1: like Islam, like Judaism, because they are all born from
Speaker 1: the same sort of root system and as a result
Speaker 1: of that, we were not raised me, my brothers, my sisters.
Speaker 1: We were not raised to regard Christianity as something that
Speaker 1: is greater than or lesser than any other faith. Right.
Speaker 1: And so once nine to eleven took place and people
Speaker 1: who subscribed to Islam for their faith became under attack
Speaker 1: and under this intense scrutiny, my heart was broken for them, right,
Speaker 1: and I did my best to you know, stand in solidarity.
Speaker 1: But you know, I was a kid at the time,
Speaker 1: and you know, you just do what you can on
Speaker 1: your college campus or whatever. You know, not certainly weren't
Speaker 1: at a level we're at now, right. But I remember
Speaker 1: talking to people who lived through that time, and you know,
Speaker 1: again we have friends who lived through that time, and
Speaker 1: they have told us how scary that was and how
Speaker 1: they had to hide a piece of themselves and had
Speaker 1: to you know, for safety and for fear. Right. And
Speaker 1: I discovered how important he jobs are. It's not unlike
Speaker 1: you know, for Jewish folks who wear yamakas or keep
Speaker 1: us right. And there are Jewish women who cover their
Speaker 1: hair as well. They're Catholic women, you know, Nuns cover
Speaker 1: their hair. You know what I mean. This is not
Speaker 1: something that's exclusive to one faith. But for some reason
Speaker 1: in this country after nine to eleven, in particular, that
Speaker 1: his job started to be associated with terrorism and anti
Speaker 1: americanism and so forth and so on, and so the
Speaker 1: folks that felt like this is America would see that
Speaker 1: as a symbol of anti American hate, right, and so
Speaker 1: it became a target. And we've heard over the years
Speaker 1: people wearing hit jobs being attacked, their hard jobs being
Speaker 1: snatched off at schools and places like this. And I
Speaker 1: will say this out loud, and I know you feel
Speaker 1: the same way. If I was ever to witness someone's
Speaker 1: a job being torn off, like in my peripheral, that
Speaker 1: is the sort of thing that would make me like
Speaker 1: I might lose my life on a day like that,
Speaker 1: because it's just I realized the amount of I realize
Speaker 1: what goes into that, you know what I mean. That's
Speaker 1: not a commitment to a culture as much as it
Speaker 1: is a commitment to God. And I believe that the
Speaker 1: bond between a human being and their faith is sacred.
Speaker 1: I've been all over the world seen faith expressed through
Speaker 1: every type of human being that they make. I've hiked
Speaker 1: mountains to see people pray to statues of Buddha. I've
Speaker 1: been in Muslim countries. I've been to the Grand Mosque
Speaker 1: in Abu Dhabi. I've been to synagogues, I've been to temples.
Speaker 1: I've been allowed to pray with seek people. You name
Speaker 1: it again, My dad did right by us. You made
Speaker 1: sure that we weren't afraid or prejudice.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: But I believe in attack on someone's faith, it's attack
Speaker 1: on their hope, it's attack on their dreams and so forth. Right,
Speaker 1: So this story stood out to me, and again we
Speaker 1: really wanted to do it right. But enough time has
Speaker 1: passed and enough of these stories have come about that
Speaker 1: today is the right time. Now, I've said a lot
Speaker 1: be gaming the picture. I feel like you got to
Speaker 1: jump in here.
Speaker 2: So you said that education and prejudice don't often share
Speaker 2: the same space, and I want to push back a
Speaker 2: little bit and say that intelligence and enlightenment. There we go,
Speaker 2: I've been prejudiced don't often share the same spaces. We
Speaker 2: see very highly educated people go to the Supreme Court
Speaker 2: to shut down affirmative action, to shut down diversity, equity
Speaker 2: and inclusion, and to shut down things like the Fearless Fund.
Speaker 2: And those people are highly educated in law degree things
Speaker 2: in that and our self. With enlightenment, empathy and intelligence,
Speaker 2: prejudice typically ceases to exist. Education doesn't seem to mean
Speaker 2: much with regards to that, because these leaders have attended
Speaker 2: Harvard Law and gotten scholarly mentions and degrees and put
Speaker 2: on all of robes and capes and all of these things,
Speaker 2: and they still are blatantly prejudiced and racist and bigoted
Speaker 2: and homophobic and xenophobic, and the list goes on and on. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I definitely go with that empathy. The thing that is
Speaker 2: done so effectively by those who very intentionally other people
Speaker 2: is the removal of empathy because I'm not the one
Speaker 2: being attacked, so that they really don't have nothing to
Speaker 2: do with me. And they've done such a masterful job
Speaker 2: of splintering us into people, I mean into pieces rather
Speaker 2: not into people, so that we do not approach things
Speaker 2: as members of the human race. We approach things as
Speaker 2: black people, as tribes, we approach things as members of
Speaker 2: the LGBTQ plus community. We approach things as women, we
Speaker 2: approach things as Christian, we approach things as Muslim, separately
Speaker 2: broken into these tribes. Because if we ever looked next
Speaker 2: to one another and realized that we were all fighting
Speaker 2: for the same thing. We would fight together, and we
Speaker 2: would storm the streets of this country, probably daily, but
Speaker 2: we'll storm it, you and I and our small group,
Speaker 2: and all the other groups will look in, you know,
Speaker 2: support from a distance or you know, obstruct us, but
Speaker 2: definitely not join in because that's not their fight. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And what we're seeing happen in this country, even today,
Speaker 2: right now as we record this is everyone watching everyone
Speaker 2: go through their own plight and just kind of watching
Speaker 2: it happen. And you know, thoughts and prayers and wish
Speaker 2: you the best. But this should be the most of
Speaker 2: it should be one of the most offensive stories and
Speaker 2: headlines in the news. But there's a mixture of so
Speaker 2: many awful things happening and so many people kind of
Speaker 2: not caring because it doesn't apply to them. You know,
Speaker 2: people that would be grossly offended if someone removed their
Speaker 2: yamaka from their head are not moved at all by
Speaker 2: this story. They should be enraged. They should be enraged
Speaker 2: because they know how they'd feel where the shoe. On
Speaker 2: the other foot, it's not like they're not enlightened enough
Speaker 2: to know, or not educated enough or not to know,
Speaker 2: or not mature enough to know, they know exactly how
Speaker 2: they'd feel if placed in that same position. So when
Speaker 2: we don't storm the streets for one another, when we
Speaker 2: don't stand up for one another, when we do not
Speaker 2: platform one another, it's very, very discouraging because we should
Speaker 2: be just as angry. I should be just as angry
Speaker 2: by a Muslim woman having to deal with this as
Speaker 2: I was when my son was kicked and called the
Speaker 2: N word at school. I should be just as angry.
Speaker 2: And if you find a way to make me just
Speaker 2: not care enough right here, you got your own problems
Speaker 2: to worry about, can't worry about those people's problems too.
Speaker 2: You effectively isolated those people and remove the power of
Speaker 2: empathy and solidarity with our fellow human beings. There are
Speaker 2: so many ways that they masterfully divide us and force
Speaker 2: us to not be there for one another. I told
Speaker 2: a young lady yesterday who started a business recently, and
Speaker 2: through conversation she ended up asking me what can we
Speaker 2: do for each other? And she didn't mean me and her,
Speaker 2: she meant people, And I said, continue to show up
Speaker 2: for one another. That's the most It's not the money,
Speaker 2: it's actually caring and showing up. You know, Ramsey and
Speaker 2: I are working on something really important with regards to
Speaker 2: allyship right now, and I hear people that don't like
Speaker 2: the word allyship or the idea of it, and it's like,
Speaker 2: there's something that you're missing. We cannot do this alone.
Speaker 2: Whatever this is for whoever's listening, whatever that mission is
Speaker 2: that you have, whatever that plight is that you're trying
Speaker 2: to get over or get through, you cannot do it
Speaker 2: by yourself. We cannot do it by ourselves. So stories
Speaker 2: like this should inferior us. You should not have to
Speaker 2: be a Muslim woman for this to I almost use
Speaker 2: the bad way for this to make you upset. You
Speaker 2: should just have to think about how you would feel
Speaker 2: if your self determination was being torn off of you. Yes,
Speaker 2: if your sense of self, if your sense of pride,
Speaker 2: if your sense of love, if your sense of joy,
Speaker 2: if your deity was being snatched away from you, how
Speaker 2: would you feel? And if you are a person that's atheist,
Speaker 2: you care about something, you care about someone. If you don't,
Speaker 2: I'm not talking to you just to make that simple,
Speaker 2: to make that plan. If you don't care about anything
Speaker 2: or anyone, the message is not for you, but for
Speaker 2: most of us that do care about something or someone.
Speaker 2: Imagine that thing or that person being snatched away from you,
Speaker 2: and imagine how that would make you feel. And that's
Speaker 2: how you should feel. Every time you read a headline,
Speaker 2: every time you hear or see a story where someone's
Speaker 2: dignity and self determination and self worth and love and
Speaker 2: heart is being torn away from them and they're being
Speaker 2: denied their most basic rights, you should be infuriated, even
Speaker 2: if it does not knock on your door.
Speaker 1: I want to follow that up with the actual article
Speaker 1: that we chose to base today's conversation on, but I
Speaker 1: don't know how much it's going to add because I
Speaker 1: think you said everything that we needed to hear. You
Speaker 1: well said. This comes from the nation. The title is
Speaker 1: Muslim women are having their hit jobs turn off by
Speaker 1: police Oliver America. The influx of arrests of Muslim women
Speaker 1: at pro Palestine protests highlights a critical flaw in the
Speaker 1: criminal justice system. The hijob is an expression of a
Speaker 1: Muslim woman's faith, symbolizing modesty, privacy, and agency over one's body,
Speaker 1: and depriving a woman of that coverage can be humiliating
Speaker 1: and traumatizing. That's one of the things I want everybody
Speaker 1: listening to know. Some women have a clear First Amendment
Speaker 1: right to keep their heads covered for religious purposes, including
Speaker 1: in spaces where others might have to remove head coverings.
Speaker 1: Reflecting this, the Bureau of Prisons allows for incarcerated Muslims
Speaker 1: to keep their jobs on in federal prisons, and at
Speaker 1: least seventeen states, including New York, specifically allow for religious
Speaker 1: headcoverings to be worn throughout a prison. Yet there are
Speaker 1: no federal laws that explicitly protect a woman's right to
Speaker 1: keep on her job while being arrested in police custody
Speaker 1: or in a temporary holding facility, either for a mugshot
Speaker 1: or otherwise. The difficulty that Muslim women have experienced is
Speaker 1: also reflective in the general vitual that Muslim women have
Speaker 1: been facing in activism spaces. Even even before pro Palestine
Speaker 1: solidarity encampment spread across American universities, many Muslim activists had
Speaker 1: already been experiencing violations of their religious liberties. I'm going
Speaker 1: to share this story because it's really important, and I
Speaker 1: think it helps paint the picture and gives you some
Speaker 1: human insight and to what this is like and for
Speaker 1: those that are not Muslim, for those that don't have
Speaker 1: these cultural elements that are so dear to you. Suffice
Speaker 1: it to say that the belief in this is worth
Speaker 1: dying for, and people have died for it. So it's
Speaker 1: perhaps among the most significant of beliefs that a human
Speaker 1: being can have. It's that important. I don't care how
Speaker 1: much hatred you have. A human being deserves dignity. I
Speaker 1: guess hatred and dignity, and how much you don't like somebody,
Speaker 1: a human being deserves dignity, So I'll share. Jannan, a
Speaker 1: twenty seven year old engineer from Maryland who requested to
Speaker 1: keep her last name anonymous, was arrested in March while
Speaker 1: protesting in front of the Israeli Nbascy in Washington, DC.
Speaker 1: While in custody, Janan said she was ordered to take
Speaker 1: off her job for a mugshot. Confused and uncomfortable, she
Speaker 1: asked countless questions like who would be seeing the photos?
Speaker 1: I don't even need to go on who asked that question?
Speaker 1: Think about it? Who would ask a question like that?
Speaker 1: Who's going to see these photos? Say for a person
Speaker 1: where it's that important to them that their hair is covered.
Speaker 1: Other questions do people normally resist here? In other words,
Speaker 1: I'm not resisting. You have me, I'm in your custody.
Speaker 1: I don't need to deny my God in this moment.
Speaker 1: But Jannan eventually complied and took off her head covering
Speaker 1: fearful that her resistance in the jail would impact the
Speaker 1: outcome of her charges. Quote. I felt awful. I felt violated, confused, stunned, naked.
Speaker 1: I felt the most important thing to me was taken away.
Speaker 1: I'm worried about other women. There needs to be a
Speaker 1: system in place if a Hijabi woman or if a
Speaker 1: Muslim gets arrested, where do they pray? And again, for
Speaker 1: those aren't who are intimately familiar with this faith, this
Speaker 1: next question, this is a mouthful yeah, yes, yes, And
Speaker 1: that's why I put it there. So you put these
Speaker 1: women at an intersection of do you comply with God
Speaker 1: or do you comply with the police? And if you don't,
Speaker 1: if you don't know anything about the Muslim faith, you
Speaker 1: do know something about faith in general. And there are people,
Speaker 1: countless people, millions, maybe billions of people who have chosen
Speaker 1: God throughout the existence of human beings over whatever else.
Speaker 1: Faith is that strong belief in a better tomorrow for
Speaker 1: yourself and your posterity. Is that strong A higher power,
Speaker 1: a purpose is that strong. It's that powerful of a motivator.
Speaker 1: Once upon a time, we had a Muslim man coming
Speaker 1: here just to tag onto that where do they pray thing?
Speaker 1: He came and prayed in our studio. He did his
Speaker 1: episode with his name Resistance is Beautiful. Please look him
Speaker 1: up on social media. Is a real one. Love that guy.
Speaker 1: He had to take a moment to pray. For those
Speaker 1: who don't know, Muslim people will pray five times a day.
Speaker 1: And this studio never felt more blessed than that moment.
Speaker 1: And we're not overly you know, religious folks here, that's
Speaker 1: not what we are. But there's something very special and
Speaker 1: very sacred about a person following their faith. And here
Speaker 1: on this show, we wanted to bring your attention to
Speaker 1: the fact that this is a thing that's happening to
Speaker 1: our Muslim sisters, that they deserve your protection, they deserve
Speaker 1: your voice, they deserve your support. And when and if
Speaker 1: legislation makes its way to protect Hijabi women in the
Speaker 1: same way that the Crown Act was passed and so
Speaker 1: forth and so on, we need to show up for them,
Speaker 1: because they deserve that, and anyone who chooses to exercise
Speaker 1: their religious freedoms however they however, it's consistent with their faith,
Speaker 1: so food for thought, bearing in mind,