Speaker 1: M Hey everyone, Since it's political season, I thought for
Speaker 1: this Saturday Select, we'd go back in time to May
Speaker 1: twelve and learned a little bit about labor unions. That's
Speaker 1: abound to be a hot topic in debates and as
Speaker 1: we ramp up to the primary season or through the
Speaker 1: primary season into the dreaded November date. But give it
Speaker 1: a listen. Educate yourselves on how labor unions work. Right now,
Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. With me is always is Charles W.
Speaker 1: Chuff Bryant, which makes this stuff you should know. Heck no,
Speaker 1: we won't go. That's different. Heck no, we won't record.
Speaker 1: That's more along the lines of what we're talking about
Speaker 1: better pay for podcasters. Yeah. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: we could get together like Adam Curry and um Joe
Speaker 1: Rogan and maybe even IRA and form like some sort
Speaker 1: of local He would be our Jimmy Hoffa, Ira would
Speaker 1: be Is that a threat? No? Are you threaten? No?
Speaker 1: He would be our Jimmy. He would make things happen.
Speaker 1: James P. Hoffa, the one that the current team's Church
Speaker 1: president either one. I'm not saying get rid of him
Speaker 1: burying a giant stadium, from saying IRA would make it happen.
Speaker 1: He would break legs if need be. There's a leg
Speaker 1: breaking goon um. So for those of you who have
Speaker 1: already seen the title of this you are you are
Speaker 1: you understand the banter? I guess if you have no
Speaker 1: idea what we're talking about, I'll bet you guessed by
Speaker 1: now that we're talking about labor unions. Tom. It's a
Speaker 1: good one man that we had this request a lot
Speaker 1: last year from Scanni's when the whole Wisconsin Scott Walker things.
Speaker 1: I know, and we're just now getting to it because
Speaker 1: the Scott Walker thing is like my intro. Well, let's
Speaker 1: hear it. So do you remember last year in Wisconsin? Yes,
Speaker 1: there was this big hubbub that was going on. A
Speaker 1: lot of people were wondering if this is going to
Speaker 1: be like the beginning of the Arab Spring in the
Speaker 1: United States, this is going to be the flash point
Speaker 1: for it. Because Governor Scott Walker was accused of trying
Speaker 1: to deunionize the public sector employees State Employees UM through
Speaker 1: a little bit of legislation that he was trying to introduce.
Speaker 1: That is very true, and it caused quite a stirt,
Speaker 1: like thousands of protesters. Yeah, there was some serious protests
Speaker 1: going on. UM. And at the heart of this whole
Speaker 1: thing was some legislation where he was trying to get
Speaker 1: the public sector employees unions UM to get their union
Speaker 1: members e g. The public or i e. The public
Speaker 1: sector employees. I E means that is e g is
Speaker 1: for example. But I realize that UH to basically pay
Speaker 1: in half of their pensions, UM to give up some
Speaker 1: other concessions like UM, if they were going to get
Speaker 1: a raise, it had to be through public referendum. Yeah,
Speaker 1: anything over the rate of inflation, I think yeah, UM.
Speaker 1: But probably the biggest one was that they were stripped
Speaker 1: of their ability to collectively bargain. Yeah, that was the
Speaker 1: begining and it worked. It got pushed through, and now
Speaker 1: if you are a state employee union member in Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: you can't collectively bargain anymore, which means you are effectively
Speaker 1: neutered as a union member. In a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: that is one of the hallmarks of the unions. And
Speaker 1: depending on where you come from, what you believe who
Speaker 1: raised you, whether or not your grandpa was still alive
Speaker 1: when you were old enough to understand what he was
Speaker 1: talking about. UM that, I think that largely depends on
Speaker 1: how you feel about unions. A lot of people think
Speaker 1: they're a good thing. A lot of people think they're bad,
Speaker 1: A lot of people think they're necessary, a lot of
Speaker 1: people think they're evil. A lot of people think they're
Speaker 1: necessary evil, And in fact, they're kind of America as
Speaker 1: it stands as kind of split down the middle these days.
Speaker 1: A pew pole that was taken during this whole hubbub
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, UM showed that forty of Americans had a
Speaker 1: positive view of organized labor, which I found surprising. You
Speaker 1: thought that was high, Yeah, I was. I was surprised
Speaker 1: because the the decline of union has also been attended
Speaker 1: by a change in perception towards them, you know, like
Speaker 1: they're kind of bad or that they hamstring business is
Speaker 1: another big one. UM. But they also found that fift
Speaker 1: still believe unions are needed to improve working people's lives.
Speaker 1: So necessary evil. I nailed it, you did, and Uh,
Speaker 1: unsurprisingly a lot of times your feelings on unions are
Speaker 1: drawn a political lines these days, of being like the
Speaker 1: an organizing backbone for the Democratic party. Sure, but that's
Speaker 1: not always true, Like very frequently unions throw their waiting
Speaker 1: their support behind Republicans as well. At any rate, let's
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of what all this is. Are
Speaker 1: our unions good? We're probably going to avoid this kind
Speaker 1: of qualitative descriptor and instead just kind of stick to
Speaker 1: the facts and let the people decide. Power to the
Speaker 1: people to decide whether unions are good or not. I
Speaker 1: think that's a good move. Josh, thank you. Uh so
Speaker 1: we got stats. We'll get to those later. Unions, Josh. Uh.
Speaker 1: Industrial revolution is kind of where actually we can go
Speaker 1: back further, which we will with what medieval times. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the trade guilds. Trade guilds sort of where the
Speaker 1: beginnings seeds of the unions and uh, they originally sort
Speaker 1: of came about though just too uh swap techniques and
Speaker 1: recipes and uh. Then that sort of evolved a bit
Speaker 1: into hey, why don't we get together and also share
Speaker 1: aside from our knowledge, get together and maybe share expertise
Speaker 1: on how to how to do things better and get
Speaker 1: better wages maybe or fixed prices. That's one before they
Speaker 1: figured out that that was um immoral and this is
Speaker 1: medieval Europe a long time ago. Yeah. Uh. And the
Speaker 1: trade guilds, Um, we're definitely the origin of unions. It's
Speaker 1: just a bunch of workers getting together and figuring out
Speaker 1: because it is essentially what a union is that they have,
Speaker 1: um more strength than numbers exactly. Um. And it's also
Speaker 1: an indication of workers understanding their value in the production process,
Speaker 1: that what they're essentially doing in return for their salary
Speaker 1: was producing a profit or business. Yeah, so you have
Speaker 1: labor in business, right and um. That gives them a
Speaker 1: certain sense of value, whereas uh and a lot of
Speaker 1: situations workers feel like, you know, they're very grateful for
Speaker 1: their job and they don't want to make any waves
Speaker 1: or anything like that, and they're not fully aware of
Speaker 1: their value. UM. And unions. One of the roles that
Speaker 1: unions plays to point out to a worker, Hey, you're
Speaker 1: doing something in return. This isn't some sort of welfare
Speaker 1: situation that you're involved in. You're producing labor and that
Speaker 1: has value and certain rights as well. Exactly. All right.
Speaker 1: So flash forward a bit to the Industrial Revolution nineteenth century. Uh,
Speaker 1: things moved away a little bit from agriculture, uh, and
Speaker 1: agricultural jobs moved into the factories. As we all know
Speaker 1: and kind of right off the bat, factories weren't a
Speaker 1: good scene for fair wages and safe conditions and kids
Speaker 1: working in factories and women in children not being paid
Speaker 1: as much as men. Um. Triangle shirtwaist fire. That was
Speaker 1: a big turning point. What was the triangle shirtwaist company fire?
Speaker 1: Where the working conditions were really really dangerous? That it
Speaker 1: was a clothing company, clothing manufacturer, I think in Chicago
Speaker 1: or New York, I can't remember. Um, and it caught fire,
Speaker 1: the factory did because there was all this fabric in
Speaker 1: the air and it just ignited and the whole place
Speaker 1: went up and all of these women had to jump
Speaker 1: to their deaths. And UM, that kind of brought in, UM,
Speaker 1: brought working conditions into the limelight and help their union.
Speaker 1: Um sentiment. I guess a flash point, if you will,
Speaker 1: exactly from your favorite Mr Cladwell the heath flash point,
Speaker 1: tipping point, tipping point, good lord, get it together, Chuck, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've got it together now, tipping point. I had to
Speaker 1: take a little break. Uh. Uh. In the nineteenth century,
Speaker 1: they would do things called striking. Yeah, they still do today,
Speaker 1: but back then it was a more uh contentious and
Speaker 1: violent affair. Than it is today, Like people died, bombs
Speaker 1: went off, guns were shot. Yeah, there was, and it
Speaker 1: was on both sides too, I mean, like the workers
Speaker 1: were striking. The point was the whole was the same,
Speaker 1: where we're not working anymore and you're not going to
Speaker 1: make any money because we're not producing the product that
Speaker 1: you need to go sell. Right. Um, But during these times,
Speaker 1: like the National Guard would show up, or um, the
Speaker 1: cops would show up, or maybe the Pinkerton Detective Agency
Speaker 1: would show up and just start beating the tar out
Speaker 1: of the striking workers in order to scare them back
Speaker 1: into working. Workers also would um defend themselves. Uh, there
Speaker 1: was this one. I can't remember what striker was. I
Speaker 1: just read about it where like the workers managed to
Speaker 1: like chase the cops off really because they were they
Speaker 1: were shooting two pound hinges in these oversized sling shots
Speaker 1: like at the cops. And I can't imagine getting hit
Speaker 1: by a two pound hinge. Was a hinge factory, I
Speaker 1: had to have been, yeah sure, but yeah, so the
Speaker 1: strikes were very violent. People like you said, would die
Speaker 1: and the cops like why couldn't the cotton ball factory
Speaker 1: had been right? Uh, but not funny though, because people
Speaker 1: did die. Uh, not making light of it, like at
Speaker 1: the Haymarket riot for incidents, for incidents, that was a
Speaker 1: big one, for instance, that was a turning point, a
Speaker 1: flash point, if you will. It was early May. Um,
Speaker 1: there was a nationwide strike saying we only want to
Speaker 1: work eight hours a day. Um. And in Chicago's Haymarket
Speaker 1: there was a violent protest. Um. Not a lot of
Speaker 1: people were there because the weather, thank goodness. Because someone
Speaker 1: threw a bomb into the crowd, yeah, went off and
Speaker 1: shots were fired by the cops, maybe by the protesters
Speaker 1: probably Aparently they were not just strike labors, but they
Speaker 1: were anarchists there, and uh, you know this anarchist their trouble. Well. Um,
Speaker 1: this is one of the places where in the public
Speaker 1: imagination at least that anarchists and socialists became married to
Speaker 1: labor like pro labor um. And it's always kind of
Speaker 1: haunted labor unions, is that idea? But it was born
Speaker 1: out of this era, if not this riot, I'm sure yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: In the end, eight people were charged and convicted. Um.
Speaker 1: The labor leaders tried to get them out, saying this
Speaker 1: is not fair. One of the people committed suicide by
Speaker 1: placing a stick of dynamite in his mouth in prison.
Speaker 1: And uh. In the end, in a few years later,
Speaker 1: the governor of Illinois granted a full pardon to the
Speaker 1: remaining three convicted, and that ended up leading to an
Speaker 1: observance of May Day or Labor Day in other countries.
Speaker 1: Right May first, USB Labor Day. Um. This whole affair, though,
Speaker 1: you left out that four of the guys who were
Speaker 1: convicted were hanged, and then one guy committed suicide, and
Speaker 1: then three were but they were charged with like basically
Speaker 1: agitating violence. Um. This was back when free speech wasn't
Speaker 1: protected quite as much as it is now. Um. But
Speaker 1: the they and they were pardoned and as a result,
Speaker 1: this whole Mayday thing, this Labor Day thing came up
Speaker 1: about in May one. But then within like five years,
Speaker 1: Grover Cleveland was like, well, this is kind of a sordid,
Speaker 1: like scary association with labor. Let's just celebrate labor, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to move it to, um the first Saturday, now,
Speaker 1: the first Monday Monday in September till Saturday be no good.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't get off work exactly. Uh did he move
Speaker 1: it to to disassociate from that interesting specifically, So that's
Speaker 1: why you can't wear white after September. September exactly. That's
Speaker 1: exactly the origin that stuff. Mm hm. Alright, So maybe
Speaker 1: let's talk about some of the basics of a labor union, Josh. Um,
Speaker 1: there's many different kinds, and like you said, it's all
Speaker 1: about strengthened numbers to get together to form what's called
Speaker 1: a bargaining unit UM with an elected leader to deal
Speaker 1: with the employer, right, because I mean, think about it.
Speaker 1: If you are if you have somebody who's advocating for
Speaker 1: your success, for your rights, higher wages, better conditions, whatever
Speaker 1: it might be, Um, you are removing yourself to a
Speaker 1: certain extent from that negotiation. So it's a little less
Speaker 1: sticky for you because you're not talking to your employer.
Speaker 1: You're not saying, I really want some more money. Somebody
Speaker 1: else is going These guys are making a bunch of
Speaker 1: money for you, and you need to share it a
Speaker 1: little better like an agent exactly right in a way,
Speaker 1: And at the same time, you also have that element
Speaker 1: of that bargaining unit being a collective bargaining unit, meaning
Speaker 1: there's that strengthen numbers. So it's a bunch of people
Speaker 1: becoming satisfied at the same time, and implied in there
Speaker 1: is if you don't do this, then you're gonna lose
Speaker 1: a bunch of people all at once, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: have some trouble. Right And Uh, they do this uh
Speaker 1: agreement in the form of the c b A or
Speaker 1: collective bargaining agreement, and a fan of any professional sports
Speaker 1: will understand what a c b A is and how
Speaker 1: tinuous they can be. Uh. Once you have negotiated this agreement,
Speaker 1: and everyone on the employer sizes, you know, we can
Speaker 1: live with these terms. Everyone on the employee side said, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can live with this. We both give a little bit.
Speaker 1: They sign it, and uh it is set for a
Speaker 1: certain period of time, and you cannot break the c
Speaker 1: b A on either side without there being legal action
Speaker 1: or grievance is filed, which usually means an arbitrator will
Speaker 1: come in and say, you know, let me get involved. UM,
Speaker 1: you I feel like just hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 1: Though for an ideal union presence in business, everyone give
Speaker 1: a little yeah, you know, you can't have UM too
Speaker 1: much for on one side or the other. But I
Speaker 1: think that that's kind of the history of UM. The
Speaker 1: presence of unions in business in America, it's been If
Speaker 1: you look over time, it's maybe even down. But if
Speaker 1: you look at in any specific decade, it's more on
Speaker 1: one side than the other of as far as who's
Speaker 1: in the beneficial position or who's asking more, who's extracting more? Yeah, like, um,
Speaker 1: Samuel Gompers, who who got together the American Federation of Labor,
Speaker 1: I think yeah. When he was asked what the a
Speaker 1: f L wanted his answer was more. Yeah. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, you have to say, well, business
Speaker 1: isn't going to just say just give it away. Very
Speaker 1: rarely do they. Um, the whole presence of unions is
Speaker 1: to extract that. At least that was the original idea
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah. You know. Uh. Unions, like any organization,
Speaker 1: costs a little money to run. Um, so you have
Speaker 1: to pay dues. It's a membership thing. Um. If I
Speaker 1: was in the Screen Actors Guild, which I'm not, I
Speaker 1: would pay dues to the Screen Actors Guild every year
Speaker 1: to keep my membership current and then they would go
Speaker 1: fight for me and they would have a staff that
Speaker 1: gets paid out of that money. UM. I love in
Speaker 1: here that this is dues vary, but many are around
Speaker 1: fifty a month. What a deal? Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's completely various depending on what union you're in. Sure,
Speaker 1: I don't know that you can put a average number,
Speaker 1: or maybe you can if you average it, well, if
Speaker 1: you counted them all up. And I don't think that's
Speaker 1: what they did here. Um, No, it was fifty dollars
Speaker 1: a month UM act now. Uh. They're also supposed to
Speaker 1: be democracies with elected officials, elected leaders who UM take
Speaker 1: action based on referendums and votes and basically just using
Speaker 1: UM voting to take the pulse of the union members
Speaker 1: to see what they want to do. Ideally, that's how
Speaker 1: it works. Yeah, I get the feeling it doesn't always
Speaker 1: work that way throughout history. Yeah, especially once the mob
Speaker 1: got involved, which we'll get to UM a lot of times.
Speaker 1: You can be uh local union member, which is sort
Speaker 1: of like being a fraternity member of a larger national charter. Uh.
Speaker 1: And if you're a local union that means that you
Speaker 1: maybe work in that same business sector, but you're employed
Speaker 1: by a different company. But it's like, hey, I'm in
Speaker 1: the in a key going back to film business stuff,
Speaker 1: because they were lousy with unions still are like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm I work in the art department. I'm a prop
Speaker 1: sky so I'm a member of the local I can't
Speaker 1: remember the number union here in Atlanta, but it's a
Speaker 1: national charter, probably pushed out of l A. Not mistaken.
Speaker 1: It's like, um, a chapter of a fraternity or a sorority. Yeah,
Speaker 1: much is what I said. Yeah, did you say fraternity
Speaker 1: or sorority? No you didn't. I said fraternity. You didn't.
Speaker 1: You didn't add sorority? No? No, good point, sororities as well, chuck, Um,
Speaker 1: what's the point of all this? I think we've kind
Speaker 1: of touched on a little bit of it, like in
Speaker 1: the especially in the strength and numbers thing, But there's
Speaker 1: other benefits to being in a union, correct, Yeah? Um,
Speaker 1: should we throw out some stats here? I think this
Speaker 1: is high time for stats. Your wages, for one, your
Speaker 1: median weekly income, it's going to be as a union member,
Speaker 1: about nine d and forty dollars. Uh, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: about seven and thirty dollars if you're non union. Um,
Speaker 1: let me see here. You've got some about healthcare? Correct? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so eight percent of union workers and this is from
Speaker 1: the Department of labor. This isn't like from the A
Speaker 1: F L C, I O or anything. UM eight percent
Speaker 1: of UM union workers have health coverage, of non union
Speaker 1: workers don't do UM. It's the same with dental plans.
Speaker 1: Of the disparities even more of non union workers have
Speaker 1: dental plans, where something like sixty six percent have a
Speaker 1: dental plan. If you're a member of a union, UM
Speaker 1: half of union jobs have vision coverage and only about
Speaker 1: a quarter of non union jobs UH have it. Which
Speaker 1: in reading this also I was kind of like, man,
Speaker 1: we have pretty good benefits here discovery. Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1: You know, Uh, if you're a minority, if you're a
Speaker 1: woman at an American or Latino, you're gonna make more money.
Speaker 1: Women are in about nine thousand more a year if
Speaker 1: you're in a union, African Americans eight thousand more a year,
Speaker 1: and Latinos close to twelve thousand more year if you're
Speaker 1: a union member. So aside from UH, safe working conditions
Speaker 1: and health insurance and things like that, which are great,
Speaker 1: wages are really the big deal, right Wages benefits UM
Speaker 1: pensions are another huge UM and they're also there to
Speaker 1: UM protect workers from being unjustly fired. So like we're
Speaker 1: not union, and we could somebody could come in here
Speaker 1: and say, you know what, I didn't like the way
Speaker 1: that you looked at your boss. I saw you scowling.
Speaker 1: You're fired. You're fired, you're fired, you're fired. And we'd
Speaker 1: be like, you can't do that, and they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: yes we can, and that would be that right. Um.
Speaker 1: There was like a big hubbub in Florida of out
Speaker 1: some uh some workers that all wore orange, either depending
Speaker 1: on who you ask, because they were all going happy
Speaker 1: already together that night, or because they were um simulating
Speaker 1: a prisoner garb to um protest the working conditions at
Speaker 1: this law firm, which is really what they were doing.
Speaker 1: And like twelve of them were fired. They were just
Speaker 1: taking into a conference room and the guy was like,
Speaker 1: you're all fired and that's that. And they're like, you
Speaker 1: can't fire us for wearing an orange shirt, and actually, yes,
Speaker 1: very much so. The since it's a work right to
Speaker 1: work state or an at will work state right to work, um,
Speaker 1: the the the the employer very much can fire you
Speaker 1: for wearing something is seemingly arbitrary, is wearing orange If
Speaker 1: you're a union member, that is not the case. The
Speaker 1: union protects you from unjust dismissal, and basically you if
Speaker 1: you feel like you've been fired for wearing orange, you
Speaker 1: can go to your union rep and a big stink
Speaker 1: comes about. That's another big one is protecting them. But
Speaker 1: I also feel like here is a good point to
Speaker 1: mention a lot of the criticisms of unions because that
Speaker 1: same protection from unjust dismissal UM. Unions are frequently criticized
Speaker 1: for that extending to workers who performed poorly. If like
Speaker 1: it's part of that give I think with unions among
Speaker 1: labor to say, okay, yes we're gonna protect you, but
Speaker 1: you have to be productive, or you have to be
Speaker 1: good at your job or whatever. Right, don't hide under
Speaker 1: the the shield of the union just to go phone
Speaker 1: in your your job every day and collect your paycheck
Speaker 1: exactly and you know, flaunt that protection. That's not what
Speaker 1: it's there for. UM. Another big criticism is that union,
Speaker 1: just the presence of unions in any country harms economic
Speaker 1: progress on the whole by hamstringing business and making it
Speaker 1: less competitive among countries that don't have unions. UM. And
Speaker 1: so for states that have state employee unions. A big
Speaker 1: one is that UM state employee pensions can be a
Speaker 1: drain on UM tight state economies. Uh. That's another big
Speaker 1: one too. So there's criticisms of unions that are very legitimate. True,
Speaker 1: But again I think it comes down to, like where
Speaker 1: your political affiliation is. Well, yeah, I mean these days,
Speaker 1: UH Republicans are more likely to not be in favor
Speaker 1: of unions, and they have consistently been called the backbone
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party. That wasn't always the case though. UM.
Speaker 1: The nineteen fifties H Republican President Dwight Eisenhower UM said
Speaker 1: that unions have a secure place in our industrial life.
Speaker 1: Only a handful of reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of
Speaker 1: breaking unions and depriving working men and women of the
Speaker 1: right to join the union of their choice. And also,
Speaker 1: throughout history, unions have kind of dabbled out outside their
Speaker 1: own labor negotiations and protection to fight for things like
Speaker 1: UH medicare, social security, civil rights. Civil rights was a
Speaker 1: big one, UM. I think Missouri Congressman Richard Bowling said quote,
Speaker 1: we would have never passed the Civil Rights Act without labor.
Speaker 1: They had the muscle the other civil rights groups did not.
Speaker 1: So there, you know, you don't want to see anyone's
Speaker 1: strong arm, but there is certainly something to be said
Speaker 1: for strength and numbers, especially when it comes to something
Speaker 1: like the Civil Rights Act. UM. The who was Eisenhower
Speaker 1: who had that quote about union rights. UM. Eisenhower speaking
Speaker 1: at a time that was just after the peak of
Speaker 1: union membership in NIVE UM, thirty five of all non
Speaker 1: agricultural workers, which is like everybody but farmers, UM, belonged
Speaker 1: to unions. Now it's down to eleven point eight percent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and UM the public sector thirty seven percent. But where
Speaker 1: they're really getting hurt is the private sector. Less than
Speaker 1: seven percent of the private sector is unionized these days.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of people that, UH say, a
Speaker 1: lot of the problems that we have in Washington, and
Speaker 1: a lot of the financial troubles we've had in this
Speaker 1: country have been to a certain degree UM because of
Speaker 1: the non unionizing of like the rust belt in the
Speaker 1: private sector. So UM to Sociologist Bruce Western and Jake
Speaker 1: Rosenfeld actually wrote a paper that said that UM, the
Speaker 1: decline of organized labor unions UM from the nineteen seventies
Speaker 1: on can account for as much as a third of
Speaker 1: the increase in Uh, income inequality in the US, which
Speaker 1: has been significant, and they can attribute a third of
Speaker 1: that increase just to the decline of labor. Well, and
Speaker 1: I think it also coincided with the nineteen seventies. Uh.
Speaker 1: Some say that big business really went hard at Washington
Speaker 1: for the not for the first time, but in a
Speaker 1: way that they've never had before, and that changed the
Speaker 1: landscape of the distribution of wealth in this country. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's a really interesting um point, Chuck, Like we
Speaker 1: were raised after that period, but so that's just kind
Speaker 1: of like our you know, we the Secret of My
Speaker 1: success or, um, American Psycho, you know, all those great
Speaker 1: movies about the eighties or set in the eighties, Like
Speaker 1: that's just the way it was, like all these like
Speaker 1: you just go after money and like you spend that
Speaker 1: money on cocaine and pinstripe suits, you know, in Maserati's
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. And so we were kind of raised
Speaker 1: with that sentiment. But there was a time prior to
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies where it was labor who was running
Speaker 1: the charge. It was the unions and they were fully
Speaker 1: in control, and business figured out how to regroup and
Speaker 1: reassert itself, and that's the age that we're in now. UM.
Speaker 1: So back to Eisenhower, though when he was talking, he
Speaker 1: was kind of carrying on a tradition where the US
Speaker 1: government figured out that, Okay, there is a um there's
Speaker 1: a balance of power that has to be struck between
Speaker 1: labor and business because business is part of this economic engine.
Speaker 1: Labor helps fuel economic engine. But they really kind of
Speaker 1: represent two different sectors of the the US, not just
Speaker 1: econ economy, but the population, and we need to keep
Speaker 1: them happy. We need to strike this balance. So the
Speaker 1: federal government got involved, starting in with the National Labor
Speaker 1: Relations Act, and they basically said, Okay, we can't have
Speaker 1: strikes where you guys are shooting two pound hinges at cops,
Speaker 1: and we can't have strikes where cops are like murdering, uh,
Speaker 1: striking workers. Let's get to the heart of this matter
Speaker 1: and figure out how to strike a happy balance between
Speaker 1: what labor wants and what business wants and progressed from there.
Speaker 1: And it was a really smart thing to do, but
Speaker 1: they figured out that it was very much like Homer
Speaker 1: trying to keep Pinchy lobster alive with the goldfish in
Speaker 1: that freshwater tank, you know, adding salt, adding water. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's been that was kind of the mark of
Speaker 1: the twentieth century in an American economic history, was that
Speaker 1: adding the salt and adding the water over time through legislation. Well,
Speaker 1: in the nl r A was like you said, the
Speaker 1: first one. And prior to that, they companies didn't even
Speaker 1: have to recognize a union or negotiate with a union leader.
Speaker 1: So this actually required by law that they not necessarily
Speaker 1: that they give workers what they want, but they had
Speaker 1: to at least negotiate in good faith and sit down
Speaker 1: to the table with them. Yeah, which effectively said it
Speaker 1: brought unions out of the dark and legalized them and
Speaker 1: gave them a legal voice and legal recourse. That's right.
Speaker 1: And to enforce that, they soon passed the National Labor
Speaker 1: Relations Board to oversee, uh what was going on with
Speaker 1: n l r A and UM. The article points out
Speaker 1: here that they accomplished three things. UM. It allowed workers
Speaker 1: to have elections to you know, like their own union leaders.
Speaker 1: UM established laws protecting employees from discrimination based on union activity.
Speaker 1: So like are you union, Well, we don't want to
Speaker 1: hire you that kind of thing, or even worse, like
Speaker 1: in the case of Ford Motor Company led forward Security
Speaker 1: Wing led by Harry Bennett, a two thousand man strong
Speaker 1: goons squad that used to like beat up workers, beat
Speaker 1: up like organizers, beat up union reps um and do
Speaker 1: it like on camera. They really were kind of above
Speaker 1: the law in a lot of ways. But this was
Speaker 1: definitely target that was targeted at guys like that for
Speaker 1: the goons. UM and this kind of sneak spy but important, uh.
Speaker 1: An important thing to note here is an l R
Speaker 1: I also protected collective bargaining even if you're not in
Speaker 1: a union, and the ability to bargain for better conditions
Speaker 1: for all workers. So I mean it's it's the unions
Speaker 1: was one of the main things. But it protected everybody,
Speaker 1: but not everybody. There are a bunch of groups that
Speaker 1: were left out of this. Agricultural workers UM, domestic service
Speaker 1: workers UM, federal, state and local government employees, which obviously
Speaker 1: yeah when when a different way UM, railroad and airline employees,
Speaker 1: that one kind of became important. Like we talked about
Speaker 1: in the air traffic control one UM under Reagan when
Speaker 1: he fired all the air traffic controllers you know who
Speaker 1: went on strike. Yeah, and that's important. UM. I guess
Speaker 1: was that the Taft Hartley that ensured. Yeah. Taft Hartley
Speaker 1: Act came along in nine seven, or the Labor Management
Speaker 1: Relations Act, and one of the important things it did
Speaker 1: was said, you know what, if there's any reich that's
Speaker 1: gonna put the public health and danger, then we can
Speaker 1: issue an eight day injunction that basically says you cannot strike.
Speaker 1: And in the case of the I guess was did
Speaker 1: that put the country in danger? Necessarily I put the
Speaker 1: country's economy and danger. But at the same time, Reagan
Speaker 1: didn't have file an injunction through the UM Relations Board.
Speaker 1: He fired fired work. You're fired man, that guy? I know? Uh?
Speaker 1: And what else did that? Oh? At outlawed secondary boycott's
Speaker 1: the Taft Hartley Labor Act, which was a big deal
Speaker 1: because the example they use here in this article is
Speaker 1: really good. Like let's say you're a brewery and you're
Speaker 1: striking against your employer. You might have a boycott against
Speaker 1: the glass company that makes the beer bottles, just to
Speaker 1: put the strong arm on the company from another direction.
Speaker 1: And you can't do that. It's called the squeeze. Can't
Speaker 1: do the squeeze. It's not legal. You can't as a union,
Speaker 1: but consumers frequently do that kind of it's like UM
Speaker 1: trying to get like Rush Limbaugh off there, boycotted a
Speaker 1: lot of people, boycotted his UM advertisers until they said,
Speaker 1: you know what, Okay, well we'll stop advertising with him.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, Russia Limbaugh has the
Speaker 1: double squeeze on him. Same with the UM. I can't remember.
Speaker 1: There was some special interest group, some pack that was
Speaker 1: getting funding from like McDonald's, Wendy's, a bunch of people
Speaker 1: and UM because of their alleged unfair and UM very
Speaker 1: much pro business only practices. UM like all of these
Speaker 1: companies is kind of abandoned them recently. Really Yeah, Alec
Speaker 1: a l EC, I don't remember what it stands for,
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin, No, no, no, no, okay stuff mhm uh
Speaker 1: the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act of Josh, what's
Speaker 1: that all about? Well, this was during a time when
Speaker 1: UM the winds had really shifted towards not only the
Speaker 1: unions having the uh, the labor UM business under their thumb,
Speaker 1: they also had their union members under their thumb. The
Speaker 1: MOB was involved the the democracy UM where the democratic
Speaker 1: basis of unions had eroded, and UH, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of shady stuff going on UM. This what I
Speaker 1: thought was cool was rather than the federal government going, oh, well,
Speaker 1: then we need to re reinvigorate the power given a
Speaker 1: business under these union laws, instead they went and invested
Speaker 1: more power in union members. That's right. Yeah, Like you
Speaker 1: couldn't use union dues anymore to promote one candidate over
Speaker 1: another in a union. For union, the elections were really
Speaker 1: pretty heavily monitored from that point on. Uh, every single
Speaker 1: union member has to be notified by mail at least
Speaker 1: fifteen days before the election, like you can't sneak an
Speaker 1: election by them, which probably used to happen in the
Speaker 1: old days. Yep. UM. To to increase transparency in the
Speaker 1: whole union thing, there was a lot of UM disclosure
Speaker 1: and reporting requirements that were added, and not just for
Speaker 1: the unions, but for also like employers, consultants. They want
Speaker 1: to know where the money was going and basically they
Speaker 1: wanted to see how the mob was involved as a
Speaker 1: big one. Well, in speaking of money, UM, I don't
Speaker 1: think we pointed out that a lot of times UM
Speaker 1: unions will have a strike funds and some of the
Speaker 1: money that you pay into it will actually pay you
Speaker 1: when you go on strike to keep you from going hungry.
Speaker 1: It's like Affleck. You know that Gilbert Godfrey didn't do
Speaker 1: that anymore. I don't think I know. And I wonder
Speaker 1: how ironic would it be if he had Affleck insurance
Speaker 1: and that it kicked in once Affleck fired him. Interesting?
Speaker 1: Why do you think he got fired because he wanted
Speaker 1: too much money? No? No, he got fired for making
Speaker 1: Twitter jokes about um, the Japanese tsunami, like the day
Speaker 1: of Yeah, I thought it was a money issue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm worried about the sense of humor in this country
Speaker 1: in the direction it's going, like there's stand up comedians
Speaker 1: have always almost always been allowed to some they're exempted
Speaker 1: from a lot of the standards that average joes are
Speaker 1: held to, you know, like their stand up comedians that's
Speaker 1: their job. Sometimes they make tasteless jokes and all that stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they'll go over the line and they'll just go people
Speaker 1: go oh, and they'll go what too soon? And then
Speaker 1: that right exactly, and then people will be like, yes,
Speaker 1: it is um, but they there seems to be it
Speaker 1: seems to be open season on comedians well because of
Speaker 1: platforms that they've never had before, probably like Twitter, I
Speaker 1: guess I guess all of a sudden, that's like your
Speaker 1: official statement instead of a joke he made. Or yeah,
Speaker 1: and the audience is much much wider and much more
Speaker 1: um varied and diverse too. So yeah, I beg for
Speaker 1: God read so piste off. I would imagine so because
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got tell me there's like not ten
Speaker 1: thou people lining up voice actors to go afract for
Speaker 1: a huge page. I think he just made a pretty
Speaker 1: good argument for yourself. That wasn't as good as g
Speaker 1: But but I mean, and the problem is I realize
Speaker 1: what's at risk is you know, cultural sensitivity, even individual
Speaker 1: sensitivity towards people who are going to be offended or hurt,
Speaker 1: but they're also there has to be a balance between that.
Speaker 1: And I mean, the other thing that's at risk is
Speaker 1: like our national sense of humor, which is really important.
Speaker 1: It's one of the sees you could be like, well,
Speaker 1: that's just a stupid joke. No, Like our ability to
Speaker 1: take a joke is a very vital and important thing
Speaker 1: about keeping us from like all, you know, killing ourselves
Speaker 1: and stand One of the roles that stand up comedians provide,
Speaker 1: or any kind of comedian provides, is to keep that
Speaker 1: healthy and vital and going agreed. There's nothing more of
Speaker 1: a turn off to me than when you see a
Speaker 1: humorless celebrity, like when Ricky Gervais is doing a thing
Speaker 1: in the Golden Clubs and you see like the people
Speaker 1: out there that just are offended by this. I'm like,
Speaker 1: come on, man, yeah, I don't know. I I think
Speaker 1: for yourself, I can see Ricky Gervais being We'll make
Speaker 1: him the sacrificial lamp leap over God for you alone.
Speaker 1: You know, man, that was a sidebar, Yes, it was.
Speaker 1: Are we talking about labor unions? I don't remember labor
Speaker 1: unions today, Josh. You mentioned the a f l C.
Speaker 1: I oh um. A lot of people might not know
Speaker 1: that that is actually a collection to labor federation made
Speaker 1: up a fifty four member union ten million strong. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of people changed to win as sort of
Speaker 1: a new one. Two thousand five it was formed, but
Speaker 1: it isn't also a labor federation encompassing seven unions in
Speaker 1: six million workers. Big time. Yeah, The a f l
Speaker 1: that was founded by Samuel Gompers who I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: and he got some cigar makers and some other industrial
Speaker 1: laborers together to form that and then that was in
Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century, and I can't remember exactly when,
Speaker 1: but maybe in the forties of the fifties, he got
Speaker 1: together with the C i OH to form the A
Speaker 1: f L C i OH because he loves cigars. U
Speaker 1: a W is a huge one. Auto Workers. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: have something like, um one point four million members. Uh no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The Teamsters has one point four million members,
Speaker 1: and they're the ones who are probably the most well
Speaker 1: known by the average job thanks to one Jimmy Hoffa.
Speaker 1: Do you know his story a little bit here there? Um.
Speaker 1: The whole mob involvement I think with the UM, with
Speaker 1: any union was they realized that there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: guys um who are sitting on enormous piles of money,
Speaker 1: and let's see how much of that we can steal
Speaker 1: or get their hands on or used to build ourselves casinos.
Speaker 1: And Jimmy Hoffa was in with these guys and he
Speaker 1: just went missing right in. Yeah. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's any secret would happened to him, but they
Speaker 1: definitely don't know exactly what happened. And I thought the
Speaker 1: whole point wasn't it was a secret. What happened to him. Well,
Speaker 1: he was snuffed out. Oh I don't. I don't think
Speaker 1: he you know, I just had a heart attack while
Speaker 1: hiking in the wilderness and his body decomposed naturally. Well,
Speaker 1: he was supposedly going. He was last seen waiting on
Speaker 1: to Mafia Associates. It's kind of the giveaway too, But
Speaker 1: his son, James P. Hoffa UM has really kind of
Speaker 1: brought the family name back tremendously. He's the head of
Speaker 1: the t Asters today, Yes he is. He's the president
Speaker 1: of the Teamsters Union UM and is doing a lot
Speaker 1: of work toward UM real legitimizing UM unions again in
Speaker 1: this country, which is pretty cool. Well, anyone who's ever
Speaker 1: been on a film set and has seen a two
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five pound man eating a doughnut sitting
Speaker 1: in his truck, you can say I've met a teamster
Speaker 1: and they they do great work, and they're basically there's
Speaker 1: a I can't remember the number, but they're there. If
Speaker 1: you're an industrial worker, you're basically eligible to be a
Speaker 1: teamster and in just about any kind of industry. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get hate mail for that. Oh, you'll be fine.
Speaker 1: There's like two guys that you described who listened to
Speaker 1: this podcast, so you get two pieces of hate mail.
Speaker 1: If I was a teamster, I would do nothing but
Speaker 1: listen to this podcast because you're just sitting a raffle.
Speaker 1: That's not true. Teamsters do great work. But on film
Speaker 1: sets is sort of the old joke is that they'll
Speaker 1: park the truck and then they sit in it until
Speaker 1: they leave in the truck, you know, the um There
Speaker 1: was another Simpsons reference just came up with the um,
Speaker 1: the one where that film for Radioactive Man comes to
Speaker 1: town and Homer tries to see who can out lazy
Speaker 1: the teamsters. Good stuff. That is just a stereotype. Although yeah,
Speaker 1: but stereotypes are there for a reason, right, has not funny?
Speaker 1: Is not funny? What else? I don't have anything else?
Speaker 1: You get anything else? Um? No, I guess I think
Speaker 1: we covered pretty much everything. Yeah, it's a nice broad
Speaker 1: overview if people can and like you said early on, Man,
Speaker 1: you hit it on the head, my friend, whether or
Speaker 1: not you are pro union or anti union largely depends
Speaker 1: on your family's background. Yeah, it's a it's a very
Speaker 1: tried and true uh thing through through families, through generations
Speaker 1: that you know, people feel very strongly about it that
Speaker 1: are involved in unions or like my actually my parents
Speaker 1: are in the teachers union. Oh yeah, yeah, you're a
Speaker 1: union kid. Huh yeah. But that that wasn't like factory
Speaker 1: stuff like I never heard them besides complaining about not
Speaker 1: making up money, which every teacher should complain about. Um.
Speaker 1: And if you don't have any kind of passionate feelings
Speaker 1: about it whatsoever, I would advise you to look into it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if you do have passionate feelings about it, I
Speaker 1: think a great exercise would be to explore how the
Speaker 1: other side sees it and see if it changes your
Speaker 1: mind one way or the other. Look at you. UM.
Speaker 1: You can do that by reading this fascinating article that
Speaker 1: we just based this podcast on, UM, how unions work.
Speaker 1: You can type in the search bar at house touff
Speaker 1: works dot com. You can also go into WAPO. There
Speaker 1: was a pretty cool UM editorial as the Washington Post.
Speaker 1: By the way, that's right, UM, the Wisconsin union fight
Speaker 1: isn't about benefits, it's about labor's influence. From March six,
Speaker 1: two eleven was a good article. That was a good
Speaker 1: article too. And I already said search bar, which means
Speaker 1: it's time for a listener mail. You know our buddy
Speaker 1: Joe Garden was he's a scanni. He was really upset
Speaker 1: last year. You can tell you you can see right
Speaker 1: through his skin. He's so pale, he's translucent. Vote Joe Garden. Yeah,
Speaker 1: big craftwork guy. Oh yeah, did he get tickets now?
Speaker 1: He did? Ah, he promoted his own craft work. Um.
Speaker 1: I believe it was a craftwork covers show and he
Speaker 1: got different bands to come and play craft work and
Speaker 1: he's a big deal for Joe was it was awesome.
Speaker 1: He wore like white suit and introduced everyone. That is sweet.
Speaker 1: When was that very recently? Did you see footage over?
Speaker 1: Were you there? No? He was just he wouldn't shut
Speaker 1: up about on Facebook and even admitted like guys, I
Speaker 1: know you're tired of hearing about craftwork. That is significant
Speaker 1: for Joe. Um. Yeah. There's also I guess kind of
Speaker 1: in with the music sampling episode. There's I think a
Speaker 1: DJ Food or a DJ Shadow I think DJ Food
Speaker 1: um Craftwork cover mix. Yeah, there's like maybe three volumes
Speaker 1: of it and it's like just mixing together all these
Speaker 1: people who like sampled craft work for their songs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they just did a big thing at the some museum MoMA. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god, we you mean? And I tried very
Speaker 1: hard to get those tickets. Did you try? Dude? It
Speaker 1: was such into a cluster. I'm not into craftwork, and
Speaker 1: this solidifies it. When I saw the reviews of it
Speaker 1: and said they did like a twenty one minute of
Speaker 1: auto bon and I was just like, somebody put a
Speaker 1: gun to my head. Oh, you're just supposed to zone
Speaker 1: out and forget where you are for a little bite
Speaker 1: where it takes. I'm not a craft work guy, but
Speaker 1: I know people are. People don't know. I'm not a
Speaker 1: craft work guy either, like um, but I will say
Speaker 1: that like that would have been just a momentous, just
Speaker 1: a momentous thing to see MoMA into pretty much okay,
Speaker 1: like the Tupac hologram. I'm sure seeing that it Coachella
Speaker 1: is just amazing. Yeah, and a bit way more amazing
Speaker 1: for some people than others even. All Right, So should
Speaker 1: I read a listener mail? I guess I'm gonna call
Speaker 1: this a good cause we like to promote these and
Speaker 1: attach it to our Labor Union episode. How appropriate, Big
Speaker 1: big fan, guys. I was just down at south By
Speaker 1: Southwest where I caught your variety show and shook your
Speaker 1: surprisingly supple hands. I also I know I also sat
Speaker 1: on a panel called Harnessing the Power of the Benevolent Internet,
Speaker 1: something you guys seem pretty skilled at yourselves, which is
Speaker 1: why I thought you might be game to help students
Speaker 1: across the country learn all sorts of stuff they should know,
Speaker 1: in many cases, is stuff they need to know. I
Speaker 1: work for a nonprofit website called donors Choose dot org,
Speaker 1: where anyone with a dollar can give support to classrooms
Speaker 1: in need. Teachers from all fifty states post request for
Speaker 1: resources they feel their students need, and kind folks from
Speaker 1: all over the world help bring those lessons to life.
Speaker 1: It's cool. It sounds almost like a Kiva for teachers.
Speaker 1: I need fifty tickets to craft working well. Since our
Speaker 1: founding in two thousand, we've delivered over a hundred and
Speaker 1: ten million dollars of resources directly to public school classrooms,
Speaker 1: supporting more than six million students. Uh And if you
Speaker 1: or my fellow listeners would like to help, you or
Speaker 1: my fellow listeners, see have listeners fellow listeners. Okay, we
Speaker 1: have listeners. That listener has fellow lists check out the
Speaker 1: page I set up. He set up a page with
Speaker 1: our name, and I was like, that's cool, you can
Speaker 1: do that, but we're not, like, we can't officially like
Speaker 1: sign on because then it has to go through corporate
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. But oh, I already signed us
Speaker 1: on officially, he did. I made T shirts and everything
Speaker 1: they didn't, so you can go to donors choose dot
Speaker 1: org slash stuff kids should know and UM, let me
Speaker 1: know if you have any questions. And this is from
Speaker 1: Zack and he said, by the way, we recently hired
Speaker 1: a system admin a couple of months back. Drove me
Speaker 1: crazy for a few weeks. Then I realized he sounds
Speaker 1: exactly like Josh, and he said, I've enjoyed working with you. Josh.
Speaker 1: Who is the other voice double for me? There's another
Speaker 1: person that was some dude. Well, there's a writer that
Speaker 1: writes about running. He wrote one thing about running Clark
Speaker 1: and have been asked five times if it was me?
Speaker 1: What's ironic? Started? Now? I actually you should write your
Speaker 1: own article. Um, I can't remember. There was some other
Speaker 1: voice person that did like Pike videos or something. I
Speaker 1: don't man, I don't remember. Yeah, well, if okay, who
Speaker 1: is that that was Zach donors choose dot org slash
Speaker 1: kids stuff. Kids should know that donors choose dot org
Speaker 1: slash stuff kids should know indeed. Nice. Uh, if you
Speaker 1: have a great charitable organization you want to us to
Speaker 1: let everybody know about Again, we're always happy to do that.
Speaker 1: And if I sound like somebody, let me know because
Speaker 1: it's driving me crazy. Who it is I've heard from
Speaker 1: like a bunch of people, you sound just like this
Speaker 1: or whatever? Yeah? Remember? Or I want to hear from
Speaker 1: people who have um actively been on a worker strike,
Speaker 1: or if you have been a scab as they called them,
Speaker 1: and been a strike buster, or I want to hear
Speaker 1: about that. If you've ever been beaten up by the cops,
Speaker 1: we want to hear about that too. Yes. And anarchists,
Speaker 1: any anarchists out there, We're always interested in hearing from anarchists.
Speaker 1: I guess I got shipped down by the cops and
Speaker 1: Athens one night. If you get beat up, there's difference. No,
Speaker 1: but they like threw me against the wall and like
Speaker 1: we're kicking my legs out from under me, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it was weird, and then they had just left. Are
Speaker 1: you sure there are cops and not just some eternity
Speaker 1: boys dressed up as Appens police in a car. Me
Speaker 1: and my three friends. Don't know what they thought we
Speaker 1: were doing, but they they got out of there really quick.
Speaker 1: I'll say that they must have thought you were somebody else,
Speaker 1: Kevin Smith, or the reality of their situation hit them
Speaker 1: and they realized that what they were doing was wrong. Maybe. Uh.
Speaker 1: You can communicate with Chuck and I electronically via Twitter
Speaker 1: at s y SK podcast that's our handle, UH, Facebook
Speaker 1: dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know, or you can
Speaker 1: send us an email to Stuff podcast at how stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for
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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.