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Speaker 1: Hello, delicious friends, and welcome to Who Did What Now?

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Speaker 1: The history podcast that is not your history class with me,

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Speaker 1: your host Katie Charlewood, history harlot and reader of books. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember the last time Scotland were in the

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Speaker 1: World Cup. Now I do. Actually I remember one of

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Speaker 1: the times Scotland was in the World Cup because they

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Speaker 1: played Brazil and they won a match that was probably

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Speaker 1: the peak. It was like the first game when it

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Speaker 1: was the peak of the whole show for them. Now,

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Speaker 1: as someone who is half Scottish, I take great pride

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Speaker 1: in the Tartan Army going to Boston.

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Speaker 2: And Boston running out of booze. Now I don't know why,

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Speaker 2: but this is just absolutely golden to me. And also

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Speaker 2: like all of the Asian tourists who are in Mexico

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Speaker 2: and they're discovering like chips and salsa, like it's it's great.

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Speaker 2: I love sort of cultural experiences that are being shared

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Speaker 2: and like I love the biggest thing like for me

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Speaker 2: is people discovering Costco.

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Speaker 1: I love Costco. Right, I went to a Costco when

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Speaker 1: I was in the States. I'm a cheap day. You

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Speaker 1: take me to the food court, which I haven't actually

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Speaker 1: been to yet because the one that I went to

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Speaker 1: the food court was being like done up, but I

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Speaker 1: did get some free samples. But like, you take me

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Speaker 1: to the food court and a Costco, I am your girl, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I support Costco. Like I even have a sticker on

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Speaker 1: my suitcase which is like a Costco sticker because it's

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Speaker 1: just it's amazing. Like that's one of the fun things

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Speaker 1: about the US is like the grandiness of it all.

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Speaker 1: And by that I mean the size because I got

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Speaker 1: a double gulp from a seven to eleven. It's it's

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Speaker 1: too It's simply too large. It is too large for me.

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Speaker 1: I could not I could not handle it. And I'm

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Speaker 1: someone who consumes a lot of beverages, like in general,

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Speaker 1: not like the Scots in Boston making Boston run out

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Speaker 1: of booze. And I love it. This was a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, it's goods are gonna come. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The Toton Army drank Boston dry, which is an achievement

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Speaker 1: I think we can all agree upon. But I just

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Speaker 1: think it's really for it. But nah, I love I

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Speaker 1: love this, this whole thing. I love that ordinary citizens

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Speaker 1: like are getting to see people enjoy their country. As

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Speaker 1: opposed to like all the shit that just gets shed

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Speaker 1: out for like all this stuff, and there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of you know, humanity, enjoy and consideration to one another.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the important part in all this.

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Speaker 1: It's that human connection. And like, oh the football coins.

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Speaker 1: I forgot about the football coins, Like that is a

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Speaker 1: Scottish tradition. Like if your statues, you're thinking, how did

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Speaker 1: they get a traffic cone up there? Determination? Okay, determination

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Speaker 1: and just a little bit of spike. That's how everything

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Speaker 1: gets done. But yes, I am really really enjoying this

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Speaker 1: whole scenario of just especially the topon Army because the

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Speaker 1: amount of people who are like hey, why is why

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Speaker 1: are they all playing bagpipes? Like does everyone in Scotland

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Speaker 1: learn the bagpipes? It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's your

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Speaker 1: last exam before you go into high school. It's like, eh,

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Speaker 1: your pipe will throw the flower to Scotland or else? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: fucked pal. Yes, it's Pride month. It's Pride month. And

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Speaker 1: what's interesting about Pride Month specifically now is like the

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Speaker 1: town that I live in Ireland, it has pride, it

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Speaker 1: has we pride a little bit of pride, not much

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Speaker 1: because we're Irish, so the only emotions were allowed to

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Speaker 1: have our shame and guilt. But that's what happens when

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Speaker 1: you're raised Catholic. But here's the thing, we push those

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Speaker 1: feelings down, down, down, down, down down, So like instead

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Speaker 1: of having emotional baggage, we have convenient little grief cases now.

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Speaker 1: But pride is new and so like, pride is happening

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Speaker 1: off my village. But last year it happened in August,

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Speaker 1: and this year it happened at the end of May,

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Speaker 1: which does feel a little bit like we just keep

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Speaker 1: starcumventing actual Pride month. Now. I don't know why specifically

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Speaker 1: this has sort of happened. I'm sure there's probably like

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Speaker 1: a really good reason for it, and me bringing up

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Speaker 1: has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I've

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Speaker 1: never been invited to be involved to how totally do

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Speaker 1: I want to be invented to do stuff, because like

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Speaker 1: I don't even know who to contact to be involved.

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Speaker 1: I tried, maybe I've just offended somebody, But anyway, it's

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Speaker 1: Pride month, and actually the amount of is Seali being

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Speaker 1: pragman Weather being pregnant? When why are we salibrating veterans?

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Speaker 1: Why don't we have a Veterans month. You do, okay,

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Speaker 1: United States of America, you do have a veterans month.

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Speaker 1: It's November, the same month which contains International Men's Day,

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Speaker 1: which surprisingly enough y'all don't seem to know about either.

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Speaker 1: Like anyway, I know you're thinking, you're thinking, Kerry, quite

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Speaker 1: your devil dabble in fact me, In fact you I will.

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Speaker 1: But first we've got to get our source on. Our

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Speaker 1: sources are Gay Ellie, A History of Sexual Outlaw, Power, Politics,

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Speaker 1: and Lipsick Lesbians by Lillian Ferreman and Stuart Timmants, The

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Speaker 1: Lavender Scare, The Cold War persecution of gays and Lesbians

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Speaker 1: and the Federal Government by David K. Johnson, Before Stonewall

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Speaker 1: Activists for Gay and Lesbian Rights, and historical context by

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Speaker 1: Verne L. Bulla Gay Rights and Moral Panic, The Origins

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Speaker 1: of America's debate on homosexuality by Fred Fez, Congregational Investigations,

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Speaker 1: and the Lavender Scare by Judith Adkins. McCarthyism and the

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Speaker 1: Second Red Scare by Landing R. Y Stores, and of

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Speaker 1: course her old favorites, the Smithsonian dot com.

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Speaker 3: And Biography dot com iosid incomfortably good, then let's begin today,

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Speaker 3: my dear friends, my delicious friends. Somebody even say, we

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Speaker 3: are going to be talking about the Lavender Scare, a

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Speaker 3: moral panic, which you know, I do know far too

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Speaker 3: much about moral panics. Like it's almost unnerving, like it's

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Speaker 3: become something that I have just gained a lot of knowledge.

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Speaker 3: And it was never my intention to know specifically about

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Speaker 3: moral panics.

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Speaker 1: But here we are now. Actually, before I go on,

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Speaker 1: I should warn you content warning. Time claxons are ringing.

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Speaker 1: That's really I was going to try and do a

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Speaker 1: sound effect, and then I just gave up before I

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Speaker 1: even said a word. But content warning, trigger warning. There

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Speaker 1: will be mentions of sexual assault and suicide this episode.

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Speaker 1: So if that is something you don't think you can handle,

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Speaker 1: if that's not something you want to hear about in

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Speaker 1: any way, even as a reference, then maybe best to

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Speaker 1: exit stage left and we will see you next time.

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Speaker 1: So the Lavender Scare, which in case you were wondering,

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Speaker 1: was very much linked with the Red Scare. Understanding one

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Speaker 1: helps understand the other. And of course we're gonna slip

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Speaker 1: into some context because the Red Scale came in waves,

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Speaker 1: the first of which was in nineteen seventeen, following the

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Speaker 1: Bolshevik Russian Revolution. You know, the whole overthrowing the Romanovs ac.

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Speaker 1: If you've seen the animated movie Anastasia, it glosses over

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Speaker 1: this quite a bit. It's like, oh, this stuff happened

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Speaker 1: because of evil, ghoulish rasbuilding as opposed to the government

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Speaker 1: being overthrown by the people, the Bolsheviks. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the murdering of a whole family after being kidnapped for

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Speaker 1: a year or maybe not even a full year anyway.

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Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on the Romanovs I know like

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Speaker 1: a bit, but yeah, this kind of mass revolt really

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Speaker 1: terrified the Western world. In fact, people worried that the

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Speaker 1: same thing could happen in America. Could you imagine the

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Speaker 1: people having power the nerve. It's almost as if the

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Speaker 1: powers that we forget that it is in fact working

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Speaker 1: class people that are the backbone of society, especially back then.

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Speaker 1: See after the end of the First World War, people

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Speaker 1: started demanding a better work environment. What shocking, I know, right,

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Speaker 1: because like health and safety wasn't a huge consideration back

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Speaker 1: in interwarm Erica. Neither was fair pay for fair day's work.

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Speaker 1: But then collectively workers began holding strikes for better working

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Speaker 1: conditions and better pay. Now. I always remember the story

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Speaker 1: of Goes. It was someone talking about, Oh, my dad

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Speaker 1: used to say that, you know, Christmases were so weird.

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Speaker 1: One year you'd get a bucket, the next year you

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Speaker 1: get a bike. And like they were relaying this story

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Speaker 1: to like their grandma and their grant had just gone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the year they got bikes was the year we joined

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Speaker 1: the union. Like today, it's because you were being paid fairly.

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Speaker 1: You were able to get a bike for Christmas, you know,

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Speaker 1: And that's something that people like forget, Like, the whole

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Speaker 1: purpose of a union is to ensure that the workers,

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Speaker 1: you know, are paid fairly and that they are safe

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Speaker 1: and secure and their positions and they're not going to

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Speaker 1: be screwed over by you know, the business AnyWho. Instead

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Speaker 1: of treating it like it was, you know, workers expecting

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Speaker 1: to get paid fairly and to have lower risks of

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Speaker 1: being maimed or killed during the workday, the American press

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Speaker 1: decided to portray these acts as something decidedly un American.

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Speaker 1: But wait, there's more. Apart from being distasteful to one

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Speaker 1: of the best muppets of all, Sam the Eagle, it

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Speaker 1: was clearly the first steps to communism. The press were

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Speaker 1: utilized by companies and the governments, because how could everyone

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Speaker 1: keep getting higher profits if they actually had to invest

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Speaker 1: in their workforce. Thanks to the smear campaign by the

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Speaker 1: news agencies, the US government was able to push the

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Speaker 1: workers down, and with this the seeds of distrust were sown,

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Speaker 1: and from there well kind of snowballed. That very year,

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Speaker 1: Joe Wilson, the twenty eighth President of the United States,

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Speaker 1: passed the nineteen eighteen Sedition Act, which limited the exercise

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Speaker 1: of free speech by criminalizing any language that could be

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Speaker 1: seen as disloyal to the US government. And around this time,

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Speaker 1: certain states past laws that allowed the police to investigate

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Speaker 1: in prison and you bought people that they suspected of

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Speaker 1: being communist. But wait, there's more. Not just people they

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Speaker 1: thought might possibly a little bit maybe could be communist,

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Speaker 1: but also anyone with left leaning politics. Now this may

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Speaker 1: come a surprise to some of you gentle listeners, but

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Speaker 1: back then they had trouble distinguishing between socialism, communism, anarchism,

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Speaker 1: social democracy, yary yary, yary, yeah, yeah, okay, cyber. Most

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Speaker 1: of the time, when people throw around communist, maist, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: ask them if they've actually read the Communist Manifesto, because

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Speaker 1: at nine times out of ten if they say they have,

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Speaker 1: they absolutely have, not like like they're lying, Okay, what

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Speaker 1: they've done is listen to what someone else has said

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Speaker 1: about it, or they've read someone else's cliff notes about

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Speaker 1: it with it. I've not read it. Most people haven't

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Speaker 1: read it, right. I read it because I had to write.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, because I studied sociology, which is actually really

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Speaker 1: funny because I remember saying that I studied sociology to

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Speaker 1: someone one time and they were like, well, of course

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Speaker 1: you did your Marxist And I was like, do you

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Speaker 1: think socialism and sociology are the same thing? You think

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Speaker 1: that car Marks invented the study of all societies? Do

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Speaker 1: do you think that? Or did you find two words

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Speaker 1: that so vaguely similar and when that must be it? No? No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this happens all the time. But like, yeah, so these

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Speaker 1: people very very rarely actually know the difference between communism, Stanalinism, socialism, Marxism,

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Speaker 1: so on and so forth. Like they're different, they're not

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Speaker 1: the same things. I mean, if Styalism is out there

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Speaker 1: on it's fucking own right, that's that's like I'd argue

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Speaker 1: that Stalinism is its own form of totalitarianism, like on

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Speaker 1: its own, like it's just absolute tom Fuckeray. Now, finally,

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Speaker 1: there's always this argument about how there's been no successful

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Speaker 1: communist country just because anytime a regime has genuinely tried it,

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Speaker 1: it's been attacked by a military force from a capitalist

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Speaker 1: nation who has funded cou disruptive trade relations, and a

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Speaker 1: bunch of other bollocks that we will get into another day.

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Speaker 1: Now you're thinking, hey, Kerry, you big filthy left to you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, hey, my favorite thing about Marx, right,

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Speaker 1: and the last last thing about car Marx, right, I

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Speaker 1: promise this episode is that Marxism only exists within capitalism,

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Speaker 1: Like Marxism cannot exist out with a capitalist structure because

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Speaker 1: the core of Marxism is effectively the rich should not

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Speaker 1: be as rich and the poor should not be as

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Speaker 1: poor as it Like, that's the core factor, right, That's

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Speaker 1: what it all boils down to is nobody should be

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Speaker 1: too fucking rich, nobody should be too fucking poor. Right. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: capitalism relies on debt to survive anyway, So the red

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Speaker 1: scare clumped all these together. Anything left was so bad.

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Speaker 1: It was practically and sometimes literally treason, but eventually the

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Speaker 1: red scale died down up until the years following the

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Speaker 1: Second World War. It's almost as if there's a pattern here.

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Speaker 1: The second red scale rears its ugly head during the

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Speaker 1: early years of the Cold War between the USA and

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Speaker 1: the USSR, which is less of an actual war and

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Speaker 1: more of an ideological one. But this second wave is

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Speaker 1: spearheaded or more accurately given gusto by Wisconsin Republican Senator

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Speaker 1: Joseph McCarthy, which has led to this whole thing often

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Speaker 1: been known as McCarthyism. But three years before his frothing

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Speaker 1: at the mouth campaign, which feels very cultive clutterus if

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Speaker 1: you ask me, there was President Harry S. Truman, the

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Speaker 1: thirty fourth President of the United States, who had signed

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Speaker 1: an executive order to screen any federal employees for any

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Speaker 1: association with the organizations that were seen to be communist, fascist, totalitarian,

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Speaker 1: or even subversive. It's kind of like they have this

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Speaker 1: assumption of sort of the old enemy and the new

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Speaker 1: So you have the older enemy, which is like fascism

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Speaker 1: and Nazis, even though they hired many as scientists hello

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Speaker 1: Operation pepper Clip, and then the new enemy, which is

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Speaker 1: like communism. Now post war America is complicated. The First

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Speaker 1: World War happened and everyone was told that it was

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Speaker 1: the war to end all wars. And then the Second

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Speaker 1: World War happened right off the back of the depression.

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Speaker 1: Well not long that depression. Things were starting to look up,

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Speaker 1: and then depression and for some people things were looking up.

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Speaker 1: The US, it had gone through this massive upheaval. It

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Speaker 1: was barely back on its feet, and people were afraid

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Speaker 1: that another war was coming. This fear had compounded with

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Speaker 1: the rumor that the Soviets were already making nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: So you've got the USA, this big upheaval over one

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Speaker 1: and a half generations, the threat of being nuked by

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Speaker 1: the commis. Then you have all of these internal changes,

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Speaker 1: the start of the civil rights movement. More and more

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Speaker 1: women were entering or staying in the workforce, and the

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Speaker 1: queer community was becoming more visible to general society. And

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Speaker 1: here's the thing about government, right, the whole thing. I

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Speaker 1: mean the US government anyway, at least at this time,

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Speaker 1: and most governments in the world run by dudes, right.

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Speaker 1: I think the Senate at this point had two female

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Speaker 1: senators out of one hundred. Like there was a female

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Speaker 1: senator back in the twenties and she was a senator

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Speaker 1: for one day and it was like a whole publicity

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Speaker 1: thing to get women to vote. It was just or

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Speaker 1: vote the right way, you know. It was more of

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Speaker 1: a decorative position than an actual one. But yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: there no women for like years and years and years

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Speaker 1: and news years, and now you have two female senators

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Speaker 1: out of one hundred senators. And in case you're wondering,

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Speaker 1: the House of Representatives had eight women serving out of

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Speaker 1: four hundred and thirty five. And for posterity, there were

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Speaker 1: no Asian or Black senators serving at this time. I checked.

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Speaker 1: There was, however, African American representation in the House of Representatives,

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Speaker 1: not much, but there was, like there wasn't a black

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Speaker 1: senator in the United States like from the end of

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Speaker 1: the restoration up until nineteen sixty six. Like that is

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Speaker 1: that is the time period. Now there was an Asian

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Speaker 1: senator when Hawaii like became was it the fiftieth stay

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Speaker 1: This is probably like something that you learn in elementary

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Speaker 1: school and it's like, yeah, Hawaii became the fiftieth state,

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Speaker 1: it's the last one, and that's like that's something you'll

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Speaker 1: learn when you're like little, that's not we don't learn

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Speaker 1: that over my side of the pond. It's not a thing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, So when Hawaii becomes a state in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty nine, that's when there's finally, you know, Asian Pacific

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Speaker 1: calendar representation in the Senate. Now out with that, no,

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Speaker 1: not a lot really, so effectively the government is mainly

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Speaker 1: a pale and stale male scenario. These men in power

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Speaker 1: saw a society changing intently the look at that, and

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Speaker 1: so they started pushing for the good old days and

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Speaker 1: traditional values like this is actually where the myth of

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Speaker 1: the nuclear family is born. Like, they want to enforce

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Speaker 1: a system that continues to provide them power and control.

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Speaker 1: So while some members of society are excited for change, others,

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Speaker 1: the bal and stale males, thought that this was the

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Speaker 1: destruction of America as they not, and as always, there

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Speaker 1: was a man ready to capitalize on that fear, the

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Speaker 1: aforementioned Senator Joseph Raymond McCarthy. So McAthy wasn't exactly what

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Speaker 1: you would call a rock star politician. He wasn't even

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Speaker 1: a pop star. He wasn't even in the indies. Really,

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Speaker 1: he was just kind of there. He wasn't making waves.

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Speaker 1: He was altogether unremarkable, like he never passed an important bill,

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Speaker 1: and his complete in total well midness was forcing him

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Speaker 1: to trickle out of favor, along with the fact that

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Speaker 1: he was a liar, insufferable, and generally disliked by the

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Speaker 1: majority of his fellow senators. Like, all of this was

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Speaker 1: causing his political career to go down the tube, something

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Speaker 1: that was becoming clear to him because you know, his

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Speaker 1: entire political career was circling the drain. Because on the

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Speaker 1: ninth of February nineteen fifty, while the top politicians were

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Speaker 1: getting in Washington, d c. To celebrate Lincoln's birthday, he

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Speaker 1: was relegated to speaking at a Lincoln dinner at the

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Speaker 1: Republican Women's Group of West Virginia. Right, they were all

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Speaker 1: at the Lincoln party, and he is here chatting to

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Speaker 1: these old ladies. Right now, he has a speech about

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Speaker 1: the importance of housing for disabled veterans. Now that's a

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Speaker 1: fairly noble cause there should be, you know, procedures in

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Speaker 1: place to help veterans, especially disabled veterans, Like yeah, now

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Speaker 1: that is what he's supposed to be doing now for

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Speaker 1: the sake of accuracy, because you know, there was no

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Speaker 1: exact agreement on what McCarthy said at the dinner, Like

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Speaker 1: nobody knows word for word or verbatim, none of that, right,

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Speaker 1: but it is agreed that he goes off on one right,

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Speaker 1: McCarthy rants about how America is being beaten by all

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Speaker 1: these other countries. They are gaining in technology and the like,

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Speaker 1: well the US has fallen behind. He goes on to

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Speaker 1: claim that the US is keeping its citizens safe, and

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Speaker 1: he says this is all because of the enemies within.

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Speaker 1: He straightall claims that the US State Department and other

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Speaker 1: government agencies have been infiltrated by communist agents, telling you

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Speaker 1: call it clitterists. It's the called it clitterists. Okay, except

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Speaker 1: it's the delegation of decks. I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: That was a bad that was a bad reference. But

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Speaker 1: he pulls out this strip of paper and he's waving

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Speaker 1: about spouting that upon this page there are the names

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Speaker 1: of two hundred and five men from the State Department

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Speaker 1: who have been named as members of the Communist Party.

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Speaker 1: Now this was a big deal. Like Ron Burgundy, see

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Speaker 1: the word communists off alarm bells for people. It was

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Speaker 1: almost a dirty word. And he is shining a light

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Speaker 1: directly at the State Department, which initially denied any such thing.

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Speaker 1: But with all this traction, many leaders were regurgitating this

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Speaker 1: idea that there were undercover communists infiltrating their lives and

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Speaker 1: influencing you without you noticing. Commons could be everywhere anywhere, journalists, teachers,

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Speaker 1: artists underneath your floorboards, living in your attic, only coming

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Speaker 1: down to steal sandwiches from your fridge. Maybe now. McCarthy

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Speaker 1: also made the distinct connection with communism and homosexuality, because

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties the worst thing you could be

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Speaker 1: was communist or gay. I suppose communist and gay. McCarthy

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Speaker 1: created a culture of suspicion and fear across the United States,

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Speaker 1: and if you disagreed, you were disloyal to the country.

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Speaker 1: No one trusted anyone, and you could be arrested if

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Speaker 1: you were being perceived as too radical. Direct quote, homosexuals

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Speaker 1: mustn't be handling top secret materials. The pervert is easier

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Speaker 1: prey to the blackmailer. It is so called of glitterist.

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Speaker 1: It's on rum like he shouting about how gay people

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Speaker 1: would be blackmailed by the reds into giving away America's

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Speaker 1: secrets like somebody called mod Allen. Right, this obviously sets

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Speaker 1: off the homophobes, who are practically salivating at the idea

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Speaker 1: of ruining the lives of queer people. You have good,

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Speaker 1: god fearing folks word that this will spread and will

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Speaker 1: taint American society, and you've got the media just all

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Speaker 1: fired up into a frenzy. And what do you know,

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Speaker 1: Finally this saka shit has all the attention he ever wanted.

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Speaker 1: And this is where he really shows just how sleek

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Speaker 1: it he is. He goes to the press and tells

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Speaker 1: him that there is a secret report from inside the government,

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Speaker 1: proof of the entire gay communist situation. And within this

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Speaker 1: report the confirmed firing of ninety one homosexual men from

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Speaker 1: their government possessions. Now here's here's the thing. He's not

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Speaker 1: talking out of his arsia, at least not completely though. Well,

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Speaker 1: ninety one men fired from the government. You know, they

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Speaker 1: were fired from their government jobs for being gay. But

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Speaker 1: this had actually happened about five years before this, and

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Speaker 1: so he's using this old information to make waves and

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Speaker 1: just keep that spotlight on himself. For a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: this is proof that McCarthy is onto something. They were

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Speaker 1: writing him letters thanking him for keeping America safe. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: he's using rumors and intimidation to set himself up as

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Speaker 1: one of the most powerful figures in American politics at

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Speaker 1: this time. That he would throw accusations around like Jubjub's,

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Speaker 1: accusing anyone who disagreed with him as being a communist,

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Speaker 1: a communist sympathizer, or simply a homosexual. Now, this did

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Speaker 1: make some people bend the knee, but this whole witch

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Speaker 1: hunt led to the molding of people in positions of

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Speaker 1: power to match his views and forcing those who didn't

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Speaker 1: basically basically pushing everyone who didn't concur with his opinions

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Speaker 1: and beliefs. And the press they're lapping up right, Fia

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Speaker 1: sells newspapers, right, Scandal seales newspapers, and you know what

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00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: else sells newspapers, fucking conspiracies. Right. And Senator Joseph McCarthy

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Speaker 1: hawks up this list of people working in the government

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Speaker 1: that he believes are communists, communist sympathizers, are gay, and

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Speaker 1: the government begins terrorizing and destroying the gay community in

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Speaker 1: the name of national security because closeted people were easy

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Speaker 1: targets for blackmail by foreign agents, and so membership in

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Speaker 1: left leaning political groups dropped during this time, and keil

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Speaker 1: Syprize the quail scene just fled deeper underground. What's funny

397
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Speaker 1: about this whole thing is like, no one, no one

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Speaker 1: at any point thought, well, if we just decriminalized homosexuality,

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Speaker 1: thus removing the very thing that attracts the blackmailers, then

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Speaker 1: they won't have anything to blackmail people with. If we

401
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Speaker 1: made being gay acceptable, then how are they going to

402
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Speaker 1: blackmail them, because there's nothing to blackmail them with, right,

403
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Speaker 1: but no ostracizing the queer community even further was apparently

404
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Speaker 1: the way to go. It just shows the level of

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Speaker 1: paranoia because like the military does an investigation, like the

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Speaker 1: government does an investigation, Like there's a whole thing, right,

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Speaker 1: and not one United States citizen right had spilled secrets

408
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Speaker 1: under blackmail. Right, No one had been blackmailed into giving secrets, right,

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Speaker 1: No one. Some people sold secrets, some people were double agents,

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Speaker 1: but like, nobody was blackmailed, like especially not for being gay. Right.

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Speaker 1: So the lavender scare goes into full swing because the

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Speaker 1: news with that ninety one gay men had been removed

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Speaker 1: from the government, the question swelled. How did so many

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Speaker 1: homosexuals manage to infiltrate the government? How many were still there?

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Speaker 1: And just how many more people had been corrupted by homosexuality. Now,

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Speaker 1: this caused a knock on effect, like because once businesses

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Speaker 1: saw the government removing people for being gay, that gave

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Speaker 1: them carplanche to do the same. And this scale it

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Speaker 1: gets teeth right because Truman is actually accused of not

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Speaker 1: doing enough to combat the great threat of homosexuality to

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Speaker 1: the nation as a result, in June of that year,

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Speaker 1: four months after his first gam and Ramble, the Senate

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00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: began an investigation into the employment of homosexuals within the

424
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: government and accusations. They're being thrown around all over the place. Right,

425
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: if you were accused, you're basically screwed. You were collected

426
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: from your home and then brought in to testify under

427
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: oath to government officials, sometimes in a private office, sometimes

428
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: in Congress. You're talking about your life, intimate details about

429
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: your life, from your political affiliations to your friends, your family,

430
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: to your sex life. It's all very intense, and some

431
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: people were forced to resign. Others didn't want to risk

432
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: being outed and just quietly left and moved to another

433
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: sector and hoped, you know, this would just blow over,

434
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: because it wasn't just about being out it, it was

435
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: about being seen as disloyal to America. And again, this

436
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: knock on effect was happening, and there was no guarantee

437
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: that you were safe. Unfortunately, this led to the misdirection

438
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: situation where the only way to shake off the accusation

439
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: of being a big gay communist was to acute other

440
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: people of being homosexual lefties. And McCarthy, this shit bag

441
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: even goes after the librarians, like he's convinced that just

442
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: because the libraries hold communist materials, like they've got books

443
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: on Marxism and shit, right, so because of this, the

444
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: libraries must be secret meeting places for commies and the

445
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: Alphabet mafia. Watch out. It's a well read lesbian how

446
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: to your children like. But wait, there's more. McCarthy's sub

447
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: committee looking into the Communist influences on American life has

448
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: Roy Marcus Cohn as chief counsel. Now, this really is

449
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 1: a gruesome tosome, right, Roy, he came from good stock,

450
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: He was from a well connected family, he was well educated.

451
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: He came out of Columbia Law with something to prove.

452
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 1: So when he gets to Washington, he wants the trumpets blaring,

453
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: he wants to make it big, and he jumps on

454
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: the first trend, which is going after communists. And he

455
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: made a name for himself in one of the most

456
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: infamous trials of the early twentieth century. He was the

457
00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: prosecutor against the Rosenbergs. Right, It's just he's that guy. Now.

458
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: Con was always in the papers, front page headlines about

459
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: the perversions of homosexuality and how it had to be eradicated.

460
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: What is wild is that Con here is the witch

461
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: finder general, like he has the highest possible position, like

462
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: in this witch hunting scenario. But the irony is it

463
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: is likely that Roy was a closet and homosexual. Now,

464
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: I hate the trope of the self hating gate gets

465
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: thrown around bigots, but it's a cop out because some

466
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: homophobes are just shitty people. But back to Roy for

467
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: a sec See his friends in later years would say

468
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: that he was very open at home and with his friends. However,

469
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: professionally he was closeted. It's like he's throwing mud so

470
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't stick to him. You know, I'm not making

471
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: any assumptions about the man, because there are different ways

472
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: in which HIV can be contracted. But I would be

473
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: remiss if I did not say that he passed away

474
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: at the age of fifty nine from complications related to AIDS. Now,

475
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: before you start feeling too sorry for the man, he

476
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: was complicit and destroying the lives of gay men under

477
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: his tenure. Like in this space of a few months,

478
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: actually four hundred and twenty five men were fired from

479
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: their government positions for the crime of being gay. Their

480
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: lives ruined, their livelihood's gone, and many of them committed suicide,

481
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: which brings us to Joseph McCarthy himself. What's interesting is

482
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 1: that some of the parameters that were accepted as evidence

483
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 1: you know that someone was a homosexual communist also applied

484
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: to McCarthy himself. At this point in time, he was

485
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: an unmarried man in his forties, still living with his mother.

486
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: But the plot thickens allegedly's McCarthy was a frequent visitor

487
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: to the White Horse Inn, a gay bar in Milwaukee.

488
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: Now there is a consistent narrative and his preference for

489
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: younger men. In his FBI file, it says there are

490
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: statements from an army lieutenant who was picked up by

491
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: McCarthy in a hotel in Washington. He gets him absolutely

492
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: blotto and then they have anal sex. J Edgar Hoover,

493
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: who was a buddy of McCarthy, said reports like this

494
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: were just homosexuals trying to sully McCarthy's name and reputation

495
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: on the flip side. And this gets horrible because of

496
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: course there's more. There are reports of McCarthy being unable

497
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: to take his hands off of young girls, especially when

498
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: he had been drinking. And that is something that is

499
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: said by friends of his people who supported him and

500
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: liked him. Okay, that's where this is coming from. In

501
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: other news, Joseph McCarthy got married in January nineteen fifty

502
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: three to Jean Fraser Care. They would go on to

503
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: adopt a baby four years later with the help of

504
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: Cohen's dear friend, Cardinal Francis Spelman, the Archbishop of New York.

505
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: Oh he acquired a baby for the rich people. Did he?

506
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 1: I wonder where this cardinal acquired this baby? Huh, maybe

507
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: we should ask a nun.

508
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: Which brings us to.

509
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: Eisenhower. That is right, thirty fifth President of the United States,

510
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 1: Dwight D. Eisenhill who issues the Executive Order one zero,

511
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: four or five zero, which orders all federal agencies and

512
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: government contractors to fire anyone who fell under the criteria

513
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: any criminal, infamous, dishonest and moral or notoriously disgraceful conduct,

514
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: habitual use of intoxicants to excess, and sexual perversion. Now,

515
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: I don't mean to say that it's painting with a

516
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: wide brush there, Like it's somehow specific and yet very

517
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: deliberately vague. Right, it just seems to have you all

518
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: encompassing and yet very much open to interpretation. So this

519
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: was all done under the pretext of strength and insecurity

520
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: procedures because less we forget, homosexuals were a massive threat

521
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: to national security. Like here's here's the main issue, right

522
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: between the federal agencies and all the government contractors. The government.

523
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: At this point in time, the government was the largest

524
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: employer in the country, and so it affected so much

525
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,479
Speaker 1: more like so many like branches into society, like people

526
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: were just being screwed everywhere, and agencies even established new

527
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: procedures for detecting homosexual men and women, like everything is

528
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: very much within a gender binary here, Like this continues

529
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: on for actual decades. You know that someone is either

530
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: gay or straight. Now, the idea that a bisexual person

531
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: could exist, but I'm fairly say it wasn't even generally

532
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: accepted until like the millennium. Like like it was it

533
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: was a whole it was a whole thing, right. The

534
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: idea of someone being bisexual was just odd because, I mean,

535
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is that it always revolves around men, right,

536
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: So like if like there was this idea for years

537
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: that you know, men could just like turn a lesbian straight, right,

538
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: and if you know, like at one point, the metrosexual

539
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: was like a thing that people were saying about men

540
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: who were clean in the city and sometimes had a

541
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: bag like messenger bags. It was it was very much

542
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: like ooh, look at mister offense. It bends with this

543
00:41:52,719 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: Missinger bag. It was a weird time right now. They

544
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: actually there was like a a system like people were

545
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: trained to spot gay people like sniffle doogs for homosexuals.

546
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes someone just has bacon in their

547
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: pocket because these agencies are looking for every teeny tiny

548
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: little hint that someone could possibly maybe be gay if

549
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: the women seemed more butcher than your average Josephine while

550
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: you're out, A man has a higher voice, well, uh,

551
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: you are being hunted, and whether or not you were

552
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: actually gay or straight, you were absolutely buggled. Eyes of

553
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: suspicion would fall upon you if you had friends or

554
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: family members who were LGBTQ. Police raids became more common,

555
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: with known gay spots being rated more often if you

556
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: were accused. There was a polygraph test, which we all

557
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: know is bullshit, like if you're nervous or angry, it's

558
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: not gonna give the right answer. The lavender scare is

559
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: basically this precursor to stonewall, like it led to it,

560
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: and this harassment and abuse just continues, and it gets

561
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 1: worse because McCarthy decides to take on the Army, which

562
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: is something you just don't do. He accuses the Army

563
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: of hiding communists and supporting draft dodgers. Oh well, McCarthy

564
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 1: had lied about all of his wartime achievements, but that's

565
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: another rant for another day. But the army shoots back

566
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: with well, Roy Cohen was supposed to be drafted, but

567
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: we didn't because you personally asked him not to be. Now,

568
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: my favorite thing is like McCarthy was shocked that they

569
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: called him out. They were like, what are we pinky

570
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: promised man. So this just riles McCarthy up, and he

571
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: publicly accuses the Army's lawyer of having communists in law form,

572
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: and this blows up spectacularly in his face and he

573
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: starts losing power. He's kept on as a senator, but

574
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: nobody really listens to his bollocks again, and it doesn't

575
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: really matter because he dies of liver failure on the

576
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: second of May nineteen fifty seven, and the hunt continues,

577
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: but not for communists. The fervor for comm hunting kind

578
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: of died down because there wasn't exactly a playbook on

579
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: how to spot communists because McCarthy did it all on

580
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: vibes right. But there was still a threat bushed by

581
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: Senator Clyde hohowey HOI so that the Ho Commission. I'm

582
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: gonna go haway. I don't care how they pronounce it.

583
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm going howay. So the Holy Commission turned the Lavender

584
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: Scare all the way up to eleven they stayed there

585
00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: is one target, okay, the Gaze. That was a massive shakedown,

586
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: and the Commission interrogates everyone, policemen, judges, doctors, government staff, everybody.

587
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: They want names, they want places, they want dates, and

588
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: they released to the press that out of the five

589
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: thousand queer people in Washington, DC, three thousand and seven

590
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: hundred of them worked for the government. Quick grab your

591
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: smelling salts, all right. They go after so many people, right,

592
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: so many people. Like there's Carmel Offy, who had worked

593
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: in the US government for Yonks like he had been,

594
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: you know, working for diplomats, had been all over like,

595
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: and then he becomes the assistant to the ambassador William C. Bullet,

596
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: all right, and so he ends up meeting like the Kennedys.

597
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: He's in Paris, he's in Russia. He's like in all

598
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 1: these places, and he's like the guy who's like gossip

599
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: because like Bullet's a gossipe bitch, and so's they can

600
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: affy here they're gossipe, but they can also, like OFFI

601
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: can find anything. He's the guy who can acquire like

602
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: the secret Russian Caviat and all that kind of stuff. Right,

603
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: So in nineteen forty three he was cruising in Lafayette Park.

604
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: As I have gone back in time, it's relevant. So

605
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: he's in Lafayette Park, DC. Now, cruising was a big

606
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 1: part of gay culture. It was one of the only

607
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: ways to safely get it on. But he approaches this

608
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: undercover police officer and gets arrested for disorderly conduct. Now,

609
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: he was close to so many politicians that this got

610
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: hush hushed, and there was like this whole spiel about

611
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: how he was their own official government business. Like this

612
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: state department gets involved and they're like, yeah, he was

613
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: totally there on an era and you looked like the

614
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: person he was supposed to meet about official government business,

615
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: important business, so much business. Right, So it's done. He

616
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: loses like that job, but he's got all these connections

617
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: from like again diplomat to the Kennedys, wh just gets

618
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: a job in like a different area. Skip forward a

619
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 1: few years and he's very openly saying that he's gay

620
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: but he's not a communist, and because he was open

621
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: and everyone really knew, how could he be blackmailed? He's like,

622
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: but everybody knows, like he was as openly gay as

623
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: someone could be like back then, which is like a

624
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: common like recurring statement about him. But again with a

625
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: lavender scare, he's fired again. Originally there was no trial,

626
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: but the Howay Commission was detalmented to pull everyone up

627
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: and have it on record now. Apart from being a

628
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 1: bit gossipy, Afy was seen as quote normal, and he

629
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: was also really good at his job. But the Holy

630
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: Commission wanted the record right. They wanted the record to

631
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: state that gay people were mentally unfit and dangerous. So

632
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: they bring in a bunch of people to reinforce this,

633
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: which kind of goes well until it gets to a

634
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: bunch of medical professionals who were like, now, when the

635
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: Holy Report comes out, they let these doctors have their

636
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: heads in the sand, like and it stated one homosexual

637
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: can pollute a government office. And that was the nail

638
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: in many a coffin, because although some still manage to

639
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: rise up, like doctor franklin Erwald Cameny, who after the

640
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: Second World War got his doctorate in astronomy from Harvard

641
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty seven, gets a job he's accepted as

642
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: an astronomer for the Army Map Service, but he ends

643
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: up being filed just months later when the executive order

644
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: came through, and while others hit away, Cammaney said fuck

645
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 1: this for a game of soldiers and sued the federal government,

646
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: saying that discrimination against someone because of their sexual orientation

647
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: was a violation of their civil rights and that there

648
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: were zero connection between someone's personal off duty life and

649
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: the ability for them to do their job. Now, he

650
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: did lose twice in federal court, with his appeal refused

651
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court, but he did not give up

652
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: and instead became a full time gay rights activist. He

653
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: would go on to protest at the Pentagon, the White House,

654
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: the United Nations, the US Civil Service Commission, and Philadelphia's

655
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: Independence Hall. He launched the campaign to overturn DC's sodomy

656
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: laws in nineteen sixty seven, with the bill passed thirty

657
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: years later. He even got homosexuality removed as a mental

658
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: illness from the DSM. You know, one day I'm going

659
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: to do a full episode on him, because I don't

660
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: think I'm doing him justice here, all right. So anyway,

661
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: another thing he did was he organized the first advocacy

662
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: group for gay rights, like the Mattachine Society of Washington, DC. Now,

663
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: the Madachine Society was an anonymous group of gay men,

664
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: or at least anonymous as much as it could be now.

665
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: They were never really seen with each other or pictured

666
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: together because they had to keep each other safe and remember,

667
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: like whether some were in lavender marriages or were you know,

668
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: married marriage, they still had to protect their spouse and

669
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: or children. Now, the Madachine Society, it's sort of like

670
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: this is like the Washington like charter of it. Now,

671
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: there was the original Matachine Society which was in la

672
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: a founding member of which was Dale Jennings. Right, he

673
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: was a playwright and an author, and he was arrested

674
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: for allegedlies soliciting a police officer in a toilet at

675
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: Westlake Park which is now MacArthur Park. So he's in

676
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: Westlake Park on the twenty first of March nineteen fifty two,

677
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: and he goes in to use the toilet. Now Westlake

678
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: is a known cruising spot. But again according to Jennings,

679
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: he uses the loo. But as he leaves there it

680
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: had kind of been creepy, creeping a bit, so Jennings

681
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: legs it and this dude is still behind him. He

682
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 1: heads in the direction of the cinema, so the movie theater,

683
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: and he realizes he's still being tailed, so instead of

684
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: going inside, he heads home. So like, he makes it

685
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: to his apartment, like, he gets in, but the stalker

686
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: follows him inside. And now where it's where it gets

687
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: weird and You're thinking this is already weird, Katie, and

688
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, it gets worse. But wait, there's more. This

689
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: random dude just lies down on his bed. Jennings, Right,

690
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: he's a bit perplexed by this situation because he's expecting

691
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: them to be like robbed or murdered, but this is odd.

692
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: This stranger followed him home broken to his apartment, lays

693
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: on his bed and is now manning sex and Jennings

694
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: is like, eh no. The stranger gets off the bed,

695
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: goes up to him and tries to force Jennings hands

696
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: down his trousers and Dale is like, absolutely not and

697
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: then boom, handcuffs. He's arrested and put in the back

698
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: of the police car where he is interrogated while they

699
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: drive around really really slowly, right, like they're threatening him

700
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: and they're going around and yeah, Eventually they take him

701
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: to the station where he is arrested for lud vagrancy,

702
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: which was the most common charge with undercovered things like this.

703
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: It's basically cruising for sex. Right. So when he is

704
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: finally allowed to make his phone call at three am,

705
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: he calls the Matachine Society. They get the money, they

706
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: to discribe it together and they bail him out at

707
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: half six in the morning. Typically, if you were entrapped

708
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: in this way, you know by the cops, he just

709
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: paid your fine and got on with your life. But

710
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: Dale Jennings was sick of this shit, and so he

711
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 1: decided to take this to court. Now, this is a

712
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: secret group which kind of thrives on anonymity, right, and

713
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: so they make a separate committee to raise money for

714
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: Jennings campaign, the Citizens Committee to outlawn treatment. They made

715
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: flyles and they put them everywhere, all the cruising spots,

716
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: all the haunts. They're putting into people's hands when they could.

717
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: It was all over the shop, right, And he gets

718
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: George Shibley to represent him. Now in the court room,

719
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 1: Dale Jennings does something that no one expects. He admits

720
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: to be engay. He's just a gay man using a

721
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: public urinal. And the only parther on the court was

722
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,919
Speaker 1: that widow officer who followed him home and broke into

723
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: his apartment. And so the jury they all agree, apart

724
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: from like one person, that Dale Jennings is innocent, and

725
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: this results in a hung jury. But yet it's it's

726
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: kind of a victory, like like it just reminds me

727
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: of that line in Buffy and the Musical where Giles

728
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: rip Anthony Stewart head, where he goes, the battle's done

729
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: and we kind of one, so we sound of Victorachy

730
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: like that, and I'm like, yeah, kind of, you know,

731
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: it's kind of kind of sort of yeah. I mean,

732
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: small victories and you take them where you can, you know.

733
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Around ten thousand people lost their

734
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: jobs and livelihoods because of the Lavender skin Those who

735
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: were dismissed forced to resign, those who did not or

736
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: could not become activists, those who literally lost their lives.

737
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: They did not receive a personal apology for what had

738
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: happened to them. In twenty fifteen, the US Secretary of

739
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 1: State John Kerry apologized to the LGBT community on behalf

740
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: of the federal government. But the Lavender Scare forced every

741
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: queer person out of government, a government that maintained and

742
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: sort of kept producing this conservative culture. And as much

743
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: as I would like to cleim the lavender scarers in

744
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: the past, the attacks on the dolls in recent years

745
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: show that there was a lot to be concerned about.

746
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: I wish I had a happier note to end on

747
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: for a prior episode. But history rarely has a happy ending.

748
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: Now that being said, if we work to get, if

749
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: we fight for each other, we might be able to

750
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: help each other out with this. And for all of

751
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: my amazing, wonderful listeners in the US, get voting, get involved,

752
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: grassroots it, you know, message people, design flyers, you know,

753
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: answer hotlines like whatever, a little bit you can do,

754
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: do it because if enough of I mean, I don't

755
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: want to have to quote the Three Ninjas, which is

756
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: a classic movie. Fight me a rope of one string

757
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: and maybe paraphrasing, a rope of one string is very

758
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: easy to break. A rope made of three strings, no

759
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: enemy can cut now again paraphrasing and children's nineties movies.

760
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: But that's a thing. Stronger together is a real thing,

761
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: Like you can't get rid of everybody, and if everybody's

762
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: fighting and standing up for basic ethics and humanity right

763
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, you deserve respect,

764
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: and you deserve compassion, and fuck you deserve basic human rights.

765
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: But with that, before I go off on a rat

766
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: like I did at a barista when they joked about

767
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: the riots happening in Northern Ireland, I think you'll learn

768
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: this lesson, but I'm going to stop here. And if

769
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: you made it this far, please remember to you know,

770
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: choose where I should go on tour. Like I'm already

771
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: looking at venues and spots. So if you want to

772
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: see me, get telling me where to be. I can

773
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: follow the socials and all that jazz. But now recommendations.

774
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: Time for reading, because as you know, I am a

775
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: reader of books. So there is a murder mystery series

776
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: by a queer writer, Katy Murphy. Right. The first book

777
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: in the Dublin Drag mystery series is Death and Heales.

778
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: Go get it. It's amazing, Go with it, Go get her.

779
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: Loved Katy. For listening for no reason whatsoever, I think

780
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: everybody should listen to Go Outside by George Michael, and

781
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: for watching Transaction. It's comedy gold And with that I

782
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: will Gene Welder. And but your gooday to you, sir,

783
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: I said, good day, adios au revoir wid them my friends,

784
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: bye bye