1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Quality dars. But Joseph's gotten more. Let's see. Let me 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: reflect back just for a moment. I remember, obviously, when 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: my children were born. I remember graduation from kindergarten, first 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: trophy ceremony in Little League, dance trophies, gymnastics trophies. I 5 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: remember them going off to camp. I remember I'm starting 6 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: high school, graduating from high school. I remember graduation from college. 7 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: But you know what I can't share with other people, 8 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: particularly some people that have been on the radar for 9 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: some time, is I don't have a point of reference 10 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: for what it would be like to walk into a 11 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: courtroom and stand face to face with the individual that 12 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: had wiped out my family. And I don't mean in 13 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: a physical sense necessarily, but had completely wrecked my family 14 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: by nothing I had done except send my kid to college. 15 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: That's what happened today. As I'm speaking, I've just finished 16 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: watching the impact statements and the family members of the 17 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: four victims from Idaho, and I got to tell you 18 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: it left me feeling. 19 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: Hollow. 20 00:01:54,960 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body bags. Okay, 21 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: here's the deal, Dave. I'm going to do my best 22 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: brother to not say Brian Coberger's name again in another 23 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: episode of Bodybags. I have had it, tired of it, 24 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: but not as tired as family members are. Can you 25 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: imagine living in that world and inhabiting that world and 26 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: knowing the things that they know that we don't know, 27 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: that have been revealed to them by the district Attorney 28 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: or by the police detectives. And they've been having to 29 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: bear this burden all these years. Since November of twenty 30 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: twenty two. 31 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: I believe it's been that long. 32 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: I know, I know, That's what I was thinking today. 33 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: I was sitting there and I started off early this 34 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: morning on Court TV, hopped on with Long Crime, and 35 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: just finished up with Nancy a few minutes ago, and 36 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: you know that's the one. It's like you and I 37 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: are sympatical. Man. I was reflecting during each one of 38 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: those moments about how long we've been talking about this, 39 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: And you know, the thing about it is as callous 40 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: and I don't mean it to sound callous, but we're 41 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: part of the media. There are going to be other 42 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: cases that at the moment time, when we get them, 43 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: we will say, and I know, because I'm guilty of it, 44 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: we'll say, this is the most horrific thing that we've 45 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: heard of at that point in time. But I got 46 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: to tell you, I don't know that anything really matches 47 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: that we've covered, that we've listened to, that we've born 48 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: witnessed to. Nothing really comes close to the Idaho four. 49 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: It's touched a nerve in across the country. It certainly, 50 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: it certainly got hold of you and I, if I 51 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: may speak for you, yeah, in that sense, and it 52 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: hasn't let go since. 53 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 3: It's one of those cases that you know, it neighbors 54 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: across the street. Most people that I live around, you 55 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: know know what I do for a living, But I'm 56 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 3: a pretty low key cat, and this was the story 57 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: that they talked about with me. You know, I go 58 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: to the mailbox and it was hey, what about this? 59 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: And I found them watching all the coverage, watching on 60 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: all of the different shows that we're covering, because it 61 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 3: was that thing of innocence. Because most of the people 62 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 3: that are covering news and positions of authority have children 63 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: in college or older, and we've gone through that, and 64 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: you think about sending your twenty year old off to 65 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: college and the fun they're having, and you hear the 66 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 3: stories and they come home for the holidays, and you're 67 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 3: watching them grow into a person that you know their 68 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: their future looks in azel song futures of Right, I 69 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 3: Gotta wear shades, yep. And in this particular moment, for 70 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 3: those of us who followed crime, I couldn't help but 71 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: think of the Bundy attack at Kyle Omega in Florida. 72 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: You know, it was in the middle of the night. 73 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 3: It was a frenzied attack. But now after today, I'm 74 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 3: with you that I don't ever want to say that 75 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: man's name again. 76 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: Brian Cooper, and. 77 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 3: I was so thankful that the Gonzalvaz family. I'm so 78 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 3: thankful they spoke from the heart and from the head. 79 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: They I believe. 80 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 3: Olivia, the sister at Kaylee's older sister, Olivia, she's that 81 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 3: person who actually set out to accomplish something, to say something, 82 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 3: and she did. And I'm telling you, man, right now, 83 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 3: I'd vote for her or her dad for president. 84 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I know. And it was so well 85 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: thought out. They took time in crafting it. The fact 86 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: that they that she in the statement, she returned to 87 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: something that we had visited early on over the course 88 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: of these many years of covering this case. You know, 89 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: that when we were first introduced to Brian Koberger and 90 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: his academic pursuits with that questionnaire. She literally took that 91 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: questionnaire in the midst of her impact statement and threw 92 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: it back in his face. You know, she asked him 93 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: questions like, how did you feel right before you committed 94 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: these crimes? And you know, if you recall, that was 95 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: literally one of the questions that was on this questionnaire 96 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: that he had put together. You know, this probative tool 97 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: that he was going to use to to examine these 98 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: people or get their world view. You know that are 99 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: in a state of incarceration, that have been done, that 100 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: had committed violent crimes. And isn't it fascinating, Oh, how 101 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: the worm has turned that he's that person. Now, he's 102 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: that person that will endwel those spaces that none of 103 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: us have ever really seen or understood. He's going to 104 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: be in there. I love the way, I think, to 105 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: a certain degree, I love the way that they kind 106 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: of dehumanized him, they defamed him. They had obviously come 107 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: to an agreement, they said that we no longer use 108 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: this name. We referred to him as Bukay again. That 109 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: was really impactful, I think, But you know, going back 110 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: to something that we've talked about off and on. I'm sorry, 111 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: I'm all over the board with this. There's so much 112 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: that kind of flooded into my brain during these past 113 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: few hours. She revisited this idea of how he he 114 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: was the smartest guy in the room, or he perceived 115 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: himself to be the smartest guy in the room, and 116 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: she went on to say, you're not. You're not the 117 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: smartest guy in the room as a matter of fact. 118 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: You know, and this is me paraphrasing, you know, you're 119 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: essentially a failure. You're a failure at everything you've ever done. 120 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: That you are you're pathetic, you know, and that you 121 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: you have believed I think that she said. And this 122 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: was and I had never heard this, Dave. This was 123 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: quite a big reveal. She said that you actually believed 124 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,559 Speaker 1: that you were the smartest person based on an IQ 125 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: test that you've took online in twenty ten, that that 126 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: was your validation for your. 127 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 3: This is what she said, Like that you have, yeah, 128 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,599 Speaker 3: go ahead, exactly. This is what she said. Because I 129 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 3: actually got this. You thought you were exceptional all because 130 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 3: of a grade on a paper. You thought you were 131 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 3: a elite bait because your online IQ test from twenty 132 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 3: ten told you so, all of that effort just to 133 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 3: seem important. 134 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: It's desperate. 135 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 3: There's a name for your condition, though your inflated ego 136 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 3: just didn't allow you to see it. I want to 137 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: be You act like no one could ever understand your mind. 138 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 3: But the truth is your basic, your textbook case of 139 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 3: insecurity disguised as control. Your patterns are predictable, your motives 140 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 3: are shallow. You are not profound. You are pathetic. Wow, 141 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 3: that was Kayleian's obvious sister. 142 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't. I don't know, you know, I 143 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: will think when Dad got up, I really I really 144 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: did expect. I expected to see, well, I expected to see, 145 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, his head explode essentially. You know, because we've 146 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: watched him in interviews, we know that he feels that 147 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: there has been a disservice because the trial did not 148 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: move forward. Uh there. He had even hinted that the 149 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: family was not going to attend, right, and thankfully they 150 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: yet not going to attend the trial, and thankfully they 151 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: were there for the impact statements and as impactful as 152 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: he was, this sister, Oh my lord in heaven, I 153 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: did I mean you talk about coming out of left field. 154 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: I did not see this coming from her. 155 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 3: Have you ever seen impact statements that got an applause? 156 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, people applauded. 157 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: When I actually in talking to Nancy just a few 158 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: minutes ago, I had. I mentioned that to her in 159 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: my closing comments on her show, where you know, I said, 160 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: and all of the thing that really stuck with me 161 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: about the impact statements was the fact that there was 162 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: applause in the courtroom. And again a tip of the 163 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: cap to the judge for allowing it, because I've seen 164 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: judges would you can make the slightest little move in 165 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: core and they'll say, I won't have any of this. 166 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: You'll be you know, you'll be taken out of here. 167 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: And I don't remember, and I was there from the 168 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: I watched the whole thing, and maybe I'm wrong, but 169 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: I do not recall him giving a warning to the 170 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: court to say, Okay, we're not going to tolerate any 171 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: kind of comments. If anybody acts out, if you feel 172 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: like you can't control yourself, leave He never said any 173 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: of that. I was and I was shocked by that 174 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: because generally, and then't that the way it is? You know, 175 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: you think about it, you think about everything these families 176 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: have endured, and that the DA folks don't understand something 177 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: like the DA does not represent the families. The DA 178 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: represents the state of Idaho, Okay. And there's really no 179 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: advocacy for families. You know, You've got people that do 180 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: therapy with them, and they'll speak on behalf of families 181 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: and all that sort of thing. But Dave, I got 182 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: to tell you, just through that one small thing that 183 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,479 Speaker 1: I've seen in other courts when I'm covering trials on television, 184 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: suddenly the judge became an advocate for the families because 185 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: they are the victims here. You know, We've got the 186 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: victims that are now hopefully at peace, that are deceased 187 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: hoping you know that they are at peace. But those 188 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: victims that remain are you know, are these family members 189 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: that forever and ever they will be linked in blood 190 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: to these events that occurred back in November twenty twenty two. 191 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: I don't know that any joy could spring forth from this, 192 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: but I know something that they can be joyful about 193 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: that b K is now off the streets in a 194 00:12:54,679 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: deep dark hole. On that night when Brian Coburger slithered, 195 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: and that was a term that was actually used in 196 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: court today slithered into that address on King Road. He 197 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: essentially was a judge and the jury, not that they 198 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: needed a judge or jury, but he was also the executioner. 199 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: Relative to these four students, he ended their lives. But 200 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: here's something else that he did, by no fault of 201 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: their own, Dave. He sentenced every family member, even those 202 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: that weren't in the court but yet are related to 203 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: all of these victims. He sent an them to a 204 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: life that will be filled with grief because you know me, 205 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: I don't believe in closure, and this is never going 206 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: to be closed, as convenient as that would be for 207 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: some people to want to toy around with in their 208 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: own brains, these people will bear a burden for as 209 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: long as they're drawing breath on this Earth day, where 210 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: there's not going to be a day that they don't 211 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: remember these children. You know, I use the term empty 212 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: chair a lot Thanksgiving. I think about all of us 213 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: as a family gathered around the table, and when there's 214 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: the empty chair, you're always going to remember there will 215 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: forever be an empty chair these lives were. You know, 216 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: you've got parents that are burying their children, man, and 217 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: that's just that shouldn't happen. It just shouldn't happen. And 218 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: you and I have been at this for a while. 219 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: Man. The one thing that. 220 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 3: As we have gotten into this that there have been 221 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 3: a number of things we don't know and still don't 222 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 3: know that I wanted to know. And I guess it's 223 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 3: the prurient interest. Okay, Joe. There was something that was 224 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: said by mister Gonzavz that I wanted to ask you 225 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 3: about because he said that they had been told certain things. 226 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 3: And you mentioned this in your opening, that the victims' 227 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: families have been told certain things about what took place 228 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 3: with their daughters, and we haven't heard it mentioned from 229 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 3: anybody else. And you mentioned that the prosecutor he represents 230 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: the state. He's not defending the family. He's not there 231 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 3: for the families. He's there to get a conviction or 232 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 3: to get some kind of resolution to the crime. 233 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: I guess. 234 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 3: But what we had Kale Gonzava's father actually said that 235 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 3: Brian Koberger was motivated to kill by his weird porn fetishes, 236 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 3: and Kaylee's body was found with marks around her mouth. Now, 237 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 3: I went and researched that comment in particular because I 238 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 3: haven't heard it mentioned by anybody else. We were told 239 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: from the very beginning they were killed in their beds 240 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 3: while they were asleep. But Steve Gonzavez from the very 241 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: beginning alluded to something more took place. And now that 242 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 3: they've pulled the gag order away, he is speaking out. 243 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 3: And he said that, and I found out that back 244 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 3: in right after it happened, when they had their first meeting, 245 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 3: and I guess I don't know if it was Kathy 246 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 3: Mabbutt or whoever, but somebody told them that she did 247 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 3: have markings over her mouth as if to keep her 248 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 3: from screaming. Now, to me, that means they weren't asleep 249 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: in their bed, Joe, if you're covering her and you're 250 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 3: leaving marks to her mouth. But he also says he 251 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: points out something that the weird porn fetishes. And he 252 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: pointed out that he's mad because they didn't talk more 253 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 3: about what they found on his phone, and Steve Gonzavz 254 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 3: said that they were getting calls from people close to 255 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 3: this investigation, they being the Gonzavaz family because they recalling 256 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: is saying that they're mad that the prosecutors are totally 257 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 3: dismissing the sexual nature of content found on Coberger's phone, 258 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 3: and that two of the fetishes passed out drunk girls 259 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 3: and gagging are found in that one room. He gagged, 260 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: kaylegan Zavez. That's what the marks are from. Now, Joe, 261 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 3: I'm telling that what we've been told is a lie 262 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 3: if that's the truth, because we've been told they were 263 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 3: killed in their beds asleep. 264 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that was discounted for me, at least very 265 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: early on, you know, when the coroner spoke out, and 266 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: I've been very robust. I think in my comments relative 267 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: to that feeling that nothing should have been said in 268 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: the first place inside the investigative bubble. The injuries to 269 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: the mouth, though they could be generated by any number 270 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: of ways, I think that it's important that we, you know, 271 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: kind of think about, you know, these internet searches and 272 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: being gagged. What does gag actually mean? You know, was 273 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: there an object placed in the mouth and it created 274 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: some kind of trauma where this thing is tied, you know, 275 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: in the back of the head. I think my suspicion 276 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: is is that with these insults that mister Gonsolveus has 277 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: alluded to, I think that it's probably a control of 278 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: violent control mechanism in order to get her to submit, 279 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: maybe to stop fighting. They could be you know, the 280 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: end of the end of a k bar knife can 281 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: be used as a bludgeon. He may have popped her 282 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: in the mouth of that. He may have popped her 283 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: in the mouth with his fist wrapped around the handle 284 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: of the blade. And that's why you're getting these traumatic 285 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: events around or seeing this as well, where you can 286 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: create all kinds of contusions around the mouth and within 287 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: the mouth just simply by violently pressing your hand over 288 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: the mouth to prevent them from what you think you're 289 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: preventing them from screaming, from yelling out. You get these 290 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: tiny little lacerations in the mouth from the teeth actually 291 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: because of the pressure being applied. So is that part 292 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: and parcel of BKA's fantasy maybe, And I think that 293 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: it also goes back to It also goes back to 294 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: was he surprised in any way by finding these other 295 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: occupants within the house when he had gone to such 296 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: great links to observe the house, surveil the house. And 297 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: then you're going to make such a stupid mistake by 298 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: showing up at this house on this particular night. And 299 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: there's four occupants in there. Was this part of his 300 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: fantasy or did he target one specific person? I think 301 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: that's that's going to be a question that hopefully as 302 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: these documents are gradually going to be released, and I 303 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: think that they will be. I was watching the post 304 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: trial or the post sentencing presser, and they had both 305 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: the detectives, the lead detectives in there, and what's going 306 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: to have to happen? I think it was also the 307 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: State Attorney General of the DA that made this comment. 308 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: They were having to go through there and actually, and 309 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: lord have we heard this term a lot lately on 310 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: the national front. They're having to redact a bunch of 311 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: comments or statements within these files, and they're going to 312 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: redact them and then release these documents. They did say 313 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: that at the website, the website for these documents is 314 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: going to be up and running today, And I'll go 315 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: ahead and tell our listeners, I mean today is July 316 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: twenty third. We're speaking on that Wednesday, and they said 317 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: affirmatively that that website would be up and running today. 318 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: So what are we going to see? What else is 319 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: going to be revealed in these documents? And yeah, I 320 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: guess some of it is is curiosity on our part, 321 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, because we've been we've been you know, speculating 322 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: at best for a long time now about what we 323 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: thought had happened, who was involved in it, and there's 324 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: been all kinds of crazy things. I've already had comments 325 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: from people directed to me that there were members of 326 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: the area nation that actually did this, it was had 327 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: nothing to do with Brian Coberger. You know that people 328 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: still hold on to this idea about Papa Roger, which 329 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: the detectives got up said they found no evidence of 330 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: that and their investigation that this anonymous online person that's 331 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: making comments that people were swearing up and down that 332 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: this Papa Roger was actually Brian Koberger. A lot of 333 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: this deserves clarity, I think, and if not, this is 334 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: what I found happens when you kind of hide the truth, 335 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: it festers. It festers over a long period of time, 336 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: and these stories will continue to generate momentum and grow. 337 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: And if you think it's hard trying to understand and 338 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: know what the truth is, now, all you got to 339 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: do is if you don't release the documents and have 340 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: full full release, you're only going to encourage that infection 341 00:22:53,720 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: that will eventually go systemic. I was just on a 342 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: podcast with my friend Julian Dorry. I urge you to 343 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: check it out. It's on YouTube. It was just uploaded today, 344 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: the twenty third of July, and I made a comment 345 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: in my conversation with Julian that I don't care about justice. 346 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: And the reason I don't care about justice is that 347 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: there are all these people that beat their chest over 348 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: justice and shout it from the rooftops that they want justice, 349 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: and no one ever really knows what that means, you know, 350 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: because in this particular case, have we arrived at a 351 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: place of justice relative to these victims and their families. 352 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: I submit to you that we don't. That term in 353 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: and of itself is you know, you're chasing ghost if 354 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: that's what you want. Just like this idea of why 355 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: we can never we can never understand the why behind 356 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: somebody like this monster that's now been sentenced to consecutive 357 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: life terms of life in Idaho. But I think that 358 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: the most important thing for me, particularly as a forensics guy, 359 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: is following the science and trying to understand that. And 360 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: I would for me, at least on a superficial level, 361 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: I think that it's important that we reflect back to, well, 362 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: what did the science accomplish in this case. I know 363 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: that there was a lot of shoe leather that was expended. 364 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: I know there was a lot of knocking on doors 365 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: and all this sort of thing. But I believe in 366 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: my heart of hearts that the detectives that were involved 367 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: in this case used allience as the main tool at 368 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: their disposal. That it was the science behind this that 369 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: actually got this guy caught. Uh, you know, just multiple 370 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: areas his digital footprint, even when you think about things 371 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: like Amazon, which actually Kaylee's sister mentioned. But do you 372 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: have that quote day that she. 373 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 3: Said, she actually said it was all in that in 374 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 3: her presentation where she was just knocking him silly with 375 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 3: actual truth bombs. Okay, and here let me just let 376 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 3: me just quote a couple of lines here. Yeah, before 377 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 3: making your move, did you approach my sisters talking about 378 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 3: She's talking about Mattie and Kaylee. 379 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: You know, she's Kayley Gonzava's sister. 380 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 3: But Mattie and Kaylee were so close they looked at 381 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 3: them as sisters, Maddie as part of their family, you know. 382 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 3: And that's why before leaving, before leaving their home, is 383 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 3: there anything else you did. How does it feel to 384 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 3: know the only thing you've more miserably at than being 385 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 3: a murderer is trying to be a rapper. Did you 386 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: recently start shaving or manually pulling out your eyebrows? 387 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: Why? 388 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 3: November thirteenth, did you truly think your Amazon purchase was 389 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 3: untraceable because you used a gift card? How do you 390 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 3: find it enjoyable to stargaze with such a severe case 391 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 3: of visual Snow? Where is the murder weapon? 392 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: I know? And you know you listen to that, and 393 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: I mean, she you're right, it was. It was. It 394 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: was a series of left handed jabs with a great 395 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: big right haymaker, Yeah, thrown into it. Just pop pop pop, 396 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: pop boom, and that she you know, she just let 397 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: this guy have it. We go back and we think 398 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: about the science involved in this, things that maybe some 399 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: people don't consider to be science. But leaving behind a 400 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: digital footprint is one of the biggest tools that we 401 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: have in forensic science. Now, because you know, I'm looking 402 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: at my cell phone right now, which I wish I wasn't. 403 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: It's sitting here before me. Years is sitting before you. 404 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: We have a digital footprintice left behind and it's really 405 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: hard to erase. It is almost as identifying as the 406 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: DNA that was found on that button snap that he 407 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: left behind. We think about the CCTV about his car. 408 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: You know, they took that car, that image of that car, 409 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: they sent it to Quantico and those people up there 410 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: ran it through their system as far as the image itself, 411 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: just to get that narrowed down. What does that digital 412 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: image reveal, Well, they were able to narrow it down 413 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: by your model, that sort of thing. How many of 414 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: those year models are there around there? Are they any 415 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: register to that area? How long? How many times I'm 416 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: thinking about this kind of talking out loud? I thought, 417 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: how many times did the Washington State University Police Department 418 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: drive by his car parked in the parking lot, not 419 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: necessarily giving it a second thought? All the while there 420 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: were people that were looking at this. You know, you 421 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: think about what kind of evidence may have been left 422 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: at his apartment contained there end go back to the 423 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: Amazon searches again with the replacement sheath and originally the 424 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: knife that he had purchased. Dave this, I don't think 425 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: that for the rest of my days, I will ever 426 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: hear k bar and not associated with these crimes. Again, 427 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: painting this picture and kind of filling it out all 428 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: along the way. And then you know, when they finally 429 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: served that warrant, and she talked about that, the truck 430 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: pulling up outside of the house in Pennsylvania, at his parents' house, 431 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,239 Speaker 1: how did you feel at that moment in time. He 432 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: is in his drawers in the kitchen, you know, and 433 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: he's separating out garbage in there as he's wearing rubber gloves, 434 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: knowing he knew enough forensic science that he knew that 435 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: he had to get separation between himself and any kind 436 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: of DNA markers that he had left behind. I don't know. 437 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: It was an overwhelming volume of forensic evidence. I think 438 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 1: that that really put him away. I think it's not 439 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: really a disappointment. I think that it was I use 440 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: the term hollow, and I'm saying that from an academic sense. 441 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: I would I would certainly like to know what we're 442 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: absent here, what could have come out in trial that 443 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: we don't know right now. When you begin to put 444 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: people under cross examination and you begin to mind those lawyers, 445 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: mind those nuggets out of there, and all of a sudden, 446 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, a whole new world opens up to you. Yeah, 447 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, Dave. 448 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 3: Well, I will tell you the one thing that two 449 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 3: things in particularly that still hit me. You mentioned the 450 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 3: truck pulling up the night he's arrested, you know, at 451 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 3: his mom and dad's house, and you know, they're taking 452 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 3: out the in ziptize, you know, his elderly parents. They're 453 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 3: taken out in ziptize and put in the back of 454 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 3: a car. 455 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: Yep. 456 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 3: But when they get him out, you know, the first 457 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 3: thing Brian Coburger said to the law enforcement after he 458 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 3: had handcuffs on, was anyone else arrested? 459 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah? And I think that that when that statement was 460 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: released all those months ago, that he that he had 461 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: actually made that statement that sent chin's wagging, I think 462 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: in social media world certainly. And I got to ask 463 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: you a question, Dave. Do you think he was smart 464 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: enough at that time to plant that seed in their brother? 465 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: Yes? 466 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: Do you think that that was intentional? 467 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: Yes? I always have. 468 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: So you're thinking in the affirm of here that he 469 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: was he was trying to plant that idea in their 470 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: brain at that point in time. 471 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Because think about the question, was anyone else arrested? Yeah, 472 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 3: that's not the question you would ask if you were 473 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 3: in cahoots with other people, that would come later because 474 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 3: you had to find out what did they say? Right, 475 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 3: you know, because you can deny it culpable deniability. But no, 476 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 3: if you volunteer at the first thing you say is 477 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 3: was anybody else arrested? Well, now we know you're tied 478 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 3: to the other guys that are sitting in the back 479 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 3: of the car across the street, you. 480 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 2: Know, right, that's my thought on it. 481 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, and it's almost an affirmation of involvement, I 482 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: think on his part. 483 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 484 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: So I don't know. Maybe maybe Kaylee's sister is a 485 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: lot more insightful than a lot of people are relevant. 486 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: I think she ain't too damn smart. 487 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 3: No, she actually said so many things that were dead 488 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 3: on that I was really amazed. It actually helped me 489 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 3: with her talking today, actually really helped me understand better. 490 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: What the family. 491 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 3: The Gonzavaz family has been very verbal, you know, they've 492 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 3: been since the earliest parts of this. They've circled the 493 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 3: ways and said we've got to do something. They're action people. 494 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 3: But I wanted to go back to something you were 495 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 3: talking about. The forensics, you know, the science. We know 496 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 3: there's another aspect of the science that you and I 497 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 3: have been talking about on body bags. That is something 498 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 3: that's fairly new, and it's happened in a slow boil 499 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 3: because back when we were growing up, when they always 500 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 3: talk about the good old days and you leave your 501 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 3: doors unlocked and stuff like that. By the way, I 502 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 3: didn't live in that generation. I don't know if you did, 503 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 3: but my parents talked about the days when you used 504 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 3: to leave your doors unlocked. And then they were like, yeah, 505 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 3: but not during the depression, you know. Anyway, locked Hobo 506 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 3: Joe was going to create exactly. But anyway, I was 507 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 3: saying about the surveillance cameras that are now available, and 508 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 3: when a crime takes place, it's not just the business 509 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 3: down the street that has to have them, you know, 510 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 3: for their store or the bank. It's now the doorbell 511 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 3: cameras that we have. Yeah, and so because of what 512 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 3: is available, I actually put this timeline together for Nancy 513 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: because it was like, wait a minute, you realize that Coburger. 514 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 3: They know Coberg got in his Hyundai and turned off 515 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 3: his mobile phone at two forty seven am. They know 516 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 3: that he was at that he did that at his 517 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 3: place in Washington, and pull him in Washington. Then they 518 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 3: are able to they know he did it because he 519 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 3: turned his fonse so they couldn't track it. But cameras 520 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 3: picked him up crossing the state line at three h 521 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 3: two am. So you leave his house at two forty 522 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,959 Speaker 3: seven three two, you're crossing the state line normal driving. 523 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 3: Surveillance cameras picture him there. They've been picked him up 524 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 3: at three point thirty when he reaches eleven twenty two 525 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 3: Kang Road. He circles the area three times. He is 526 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 3: seen on multiple cameras three times in the middle of 527 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 3: the night. Late you know, we're talking two forty seven 528 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 3: at three thirty in the morning and they're getting him 529 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 3: on video. Joe cameras catch him from businesses. At three 530 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 3: point fifty nine am. The door dash driver delivers the 531 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 3: jack in the box the zantakronodle at four oh seven 532 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 3: to four twenty. That's the time they believe Brian Coberger 533 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 3: got in the house to the back door, the sliding 534 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 3: door in the kitchen, went straight up the stairs. 535 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:43,720 Speaker 2: He knew where he was going. 536 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: Yep. 537 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 3: He entered on the second floor and immediately goes to 538 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 3: the third floor. And the first person that was apparently 539 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 3: attacked is Matty Mogan. She's attacked in her bed. Kayle 540 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 3: Goanzavez is attacked second, where she's beaten in the face. 541 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 3: She's trapped between Mattie's body and the wall and can't 542 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 3: get out, and he stabs her death multiple times, stabbed 543 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 3: multiple times. 544 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 2: They were able to put all this together, Joe and spell. 545 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 3: It out and re rebuild the night. I was really frustrated. 546 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 3: They've tore the house down. Yeah, and I still am. 547 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 3: But now we know that he killed Kaylee and Maddie 548 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 3: or Maddie then Kaylee, and we believe Xana was awake. 549 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:34,959 Speaker 2: Now. 550 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 3: I know it's not it's impolite to say that they 551 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 3: were drunk, but Gonzaba's family has talked about how they 552 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: were all partying. Everybody in the house was drinking. Ethan Japin, 553 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 3: bless his heart, he was already crashed out. Now Xanna 554 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 3: is eating Jack in the box at four o'clock in 555 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 3: the morning. Ethan's crashed out. 556 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:56,479 Speaker 2: He's out. 557 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 3: Now, Xanna, here's what's going on. It stairs and she 558 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 3: knows this is something different, so she goes to look. 559 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 3: And that's when I believe, based on what we've been told, 560 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 3: that's when b Kay is coming down the stairs. He 561 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 3: sees her and attacks her, and she doesn't make it 562 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 3: back to her room all the way, and he attacks 563 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 3: her and kills her, multi stabs her multiple times. I 564 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 3: think she's the only one that really knew what was 565 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 3: going on. 566 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, probably so. And you and I spoken about this 567 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: about being in a deep, deep sleep and being awakened 568 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: all of a sudden with the crash of thunder or 569 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: whatever it is outside. I can't I can't imagine waking 570 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: up in my last memories or my paint centers firing 571 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: all over my body as somebody who's inserting steel into me. 572 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's essentially how it happened. I 573 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: think Zenna did did have an awareness. It would seem 574 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: that Ethan be not so much. Uh. And look, we 575 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: have no idea, you know, as mister Benzolvez had pointed 576 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: out that they had been partying. We have no idea 577 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: what their blood alcohol level is or was. 578 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 2: Uh. 579 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: Maybe that's something that will eventually be revealed. It would 580 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: give us an idea as to maybe a lack of responsiveness, 581 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: you know, because one of the questions has been and 582 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: has been asked of me several times, has been well, 583 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: how can somebody not react to this level of violence 584 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: and how do people not have an awareness of it? Well, 585 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: you don't know what anybody's state of mind is at 586 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: any point in time, particularly if it's been influenced by 587 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, let's just say alcohol. You have no idea. 588 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: You've got people that are exhausted. There, it's been a 589 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 1: long semester. They're done, they're almost done with it. They're 590 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: getting ready to go on Thanksgiving break. They just wanted 591 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: to party one last time. You've got one roommate this 592 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: coming back to visit everybody else she's done, yeah, car, 593 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: yeah exactly, and so uh and has in effect already 594 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: moved out. 595 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 2: She was she didn't have a room there anymore. 596 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: Didn't That's why she was. She was in mass room. Yeah, 597 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: and so I don't know. You think about this, And 598 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: again this goes back to what Kaylee's sister had said 599 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: about lack of my own phrasing, lack of intelligence and 600 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: self awareness on his part. How is it that you're 601 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: going to expend so much time And she addresses this 602 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: in her statement day, how is this that you're going 603 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: to expend so much time to fail so miserably? How 604 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: could you not know that there were other people in 605 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: that house that particular night. How could you not know that, 606 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: particularly given the fact that, as you had well mentioned, 607 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 1: his phone goes off while he's it's turned off while 608 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: he is still over in Pull one and he leaves 609 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: out of there to head over to Moscow at that 610 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: point in time. Uh, and then you're going to circle 611 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: and view and all these sorts of things. And what 612 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: about what about the door dash driver? He According to her, 613 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: it would seem that on some level they made contact. 614 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's from a great distance, if 615 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: their eye to eye, how close the cars were, but 616 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: she saw him. She was primed to be a witness, 617 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: an eyewitness that would put him there at that particular time, 618 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: and he being the only person. Remember it was just 619 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: last week that his defense team was putting out the 620 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: idea that there was more more than him and it 621 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: wasn't him, that it was somebody else. It came out today. 622 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: I think that there was an article that had surfaced 623 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: in People today that said, well, yeah, the plan all 624 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: along was to put it off on four acquaintances of 625 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: the kids, and the judge was like, yeah, this is 626 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: the biggest bunch of crowd, No, you can't use this defense. 627 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 3: I was so thankful Joe that the way that they 628 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 3: were able to I'm thankful from a defense standpoint that 629 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 3: they were allowed to bring out a theory, and I'm 630 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 3: thankful that the judge followed the law said present your evidence. 631 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 3: We're going to do it without anybody here. It's just 632 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 3: the lawyers and me. Present your evidence about this possible theory. 633 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 3: If it holds any water, I'll let you present it. 634 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 3: And the judge listened to both sides as they presented 635 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 3: their theory of because they didn't have DNA from three 636 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 3: other from four of the people. Three that had there 637 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 3: were acquaintances of the people in the house and another 638 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 3: person who had no connection whatsoever, and that was what 639 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 3: they they petitioned, you know, to be able to use 640 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 3: this theory, and. 641 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 2: The judge listened, He discussed it. 642 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 3: He then went and thought about it and came back 643 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 3: and said, hey, wait minute, next time you do this, 644 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 3: go ahead and bring a bag in some charman, because 645 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 3: I'm not This ain't working. So and that's why as 646 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 3: soon as he said you cannot use this, because so 647 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 3: again now you're back to a jury. 648 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 2: You only need one. 649 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 3: You only need one person that says it's possible could 650 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 3: have been that guy, you know. And when they lost that, 651 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 3: when they lost the ability to throw these other people 652 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 3: under the bus. And if you notice, the judge didn't 653 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 3: even let them put the names out there. I thought, 654 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 3: I don't know how people got the info, and I 655 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 3: hope you don't want to ruin people's reputations by putting 656 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 3: them into this, and so the judge didn't allow that. 657 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 3: So anyway, but there was another part of this show, 658 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 3: Joe that in all of this, when you have talked 659 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 3: about this, a lot of it has impacted us because 660 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 3: I've mentioned in Orlando in the September twenty twenty three 661 00:41:53,960 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 3: crime Con, you did a presentation about this. Yeah, and 662 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 3: you spent the first fifteen or twenty minutes of your 663 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 3: talk to a By the way, when you go to 664 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 3: crime Con, it's big and there are several sessions taking 665 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 3: place all the time. A big session, I'll have a 666 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 3: thousand people and there will be a couple. Joe's was 667 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 3: filled up. There was no seat. I did not have 668 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 3: a seat. I actually gave my seat to someone else. 669 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 3: I had to stand. There are over three thousand people 670 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 3: in there, and the first twenty minutes was devoted to 671 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 3: talking about the students because as a professor at Jacksonville 672 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 3: State University, as a man and a husband and father 673 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 3: of young people in the age group here, it was 674 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 3: important for you to spend a lot of time on that. 675 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 3: And I thought, I thought it was time well served too, 676 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 3: because we forget the victims, and you spend a lot 677 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,320 Speaker 3: of time on that. And after you got done with 678 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 3: your presentation, somebody who was not there for the first 679 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 3: twenty minutes, she only came in for the last thirty 680 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,280 Speaker 3: minutes or so, maybe not even that long. 681 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 2: It was Ethan Chapin's mom. 682 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 3: They came in and said some things on a microphone 683 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 3: and then said some things in the press later on. 684 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 2: And I thought, look, man, you got the right to 685 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 2: do whatever you want. 686 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 3: Okay, I understand, but if you're going to shill a book, 687 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 3: make sure you criticize people for the right thing. And 688 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 3: I you brought me to tears in talking about the students. 689 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 3: That's why that impacted me so much. Because doing this 690 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 3: or a living, you know, we do a lot of stories. 691 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 3: Some of them do hit closer to home. This one 692 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 3: hit both of us very close to home. We get 693 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 3: kids in the age group. I mean, I've got a 694 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 3: daughter who looked like Kayley, and every time I see them, 695 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 3: I think of I think my daughter. I think of 696 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 3: Hannah and Ailey, and I think of I can't imagine 697 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 3: what I what would I do as a man, as 698 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 3: a husband, as a father. 699 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 2: I would feel like I just abandoned my child. 700 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: Yep, and uh, the same on my side. I you know, 701 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: I thought about Uh. I thought about Manoah, who would 702 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: have graduated. He and Ethan would have graduated at the 703 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: same time, you know, from college. Uh. If Ethan had 704 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, which had appeared that he was having success 705 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: in college. Yeah, I would have stayed on track as 706 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: the other things. 707 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 3: Joe very quickly. Those students, they were all. I was 708 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 3: not a good student in college. I was an idiot. 709 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 3: These kids, they actually they're the dream man. 710 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, all of them. 711 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. Most most schools that you visit or you talk to, 712 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: there's a more than statistical significant, statistically significant number of 713 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: kids that start college and don't finish. These kids were 714 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: all going to finish, yes, you know, and so they 715 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,360 Speaker 1: were the exception. I think to a great degree. Their 716 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: their dream kids, kids that any parent would love to 717 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: have and again through his actions, he destroyed you know, 718 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: he destroyed everything. He destroyed first off, the lives of 719 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 1: these children, destroyed their parents, their siblings, lives, anybody, the grandparents. 720 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: There was a grandparent that was speaking today, step parents 721 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: that were there, you know, younger siblings that probably could 722 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: not have been there. And you know, to a great degree, 723 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,280 Speaker 1: they scarred this little town and it is a little 724 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 1: town where nothing like this has ever happened before. They 725 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:43,879 Speaker 1: scarred an institution, they scarred a state. You know, he 726 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: did not they, but Brian Coberger did by these selfish 727 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,839 Speaker 1: actions on his part, because it is when it comes 728 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:55,959 Speaker 1: down to it, it was pure selfishness. So I don't know, Yeah, 729 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: I do feel hollow, but I know this at the 730 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,439 Speaker 1: end of the day, as much as I think many 731 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: of us would have liked to have seen Brian Koberger 732 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 1: strapped to that chair, and which is the way they 733 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: do it, with a firing squad with sandbags all behind him, 734 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: and you've got these riflemen that are loaded with thirty 735 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,800 Speaker 1: caliber rounds and they send rounds down range pierce his chest. 736 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: A lot of people would have There would have been 737 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 1: as many people if they'd have been open to the public. 738 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: There would have been as many people waiting online to 739 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: watch that event as there were people were lining up 740 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: last night in Moscow to be present in the gallery. 741 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,759 Speaker 1: I submit to you there would have been that many 742 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: people wanting to see him die. 743 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,359 Speaker 3: I want to share what I got to share this 744 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 3: because it's important. I earring a sister. Yeah, just that 745 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 3: was everything for me. I can walk away from the case. 746 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I think, yeah, she said. 747 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 3: She says this to him. You aren't special or deep, 748 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 3: not mysterious or exceptional. Don't ever get it twisted again. 749 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 3: No one is scared of you today. No one is 750 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 3: intimidated by you, no one is impressed by you. No 751 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,839 Speaker 3: one thinks that you are important. You orchestrated this like 752 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 3: you thought you were God. Now look at you begging 753 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 3: a courtroom for scraps. You spent months preparing, and still 754 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 3: all it took was my sister and as she your 755 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 3: work so hard it seemed dangerous. But real control doesn't 756 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 3: have to prove itself. The truth is the scariest part 757 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 3: about you is how painfully average you turned out to be. 758 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:56,760 Speaker 3: The truth is as dumb as they come, stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty. 759 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,600 Speaker 3: Let me be very clear, don't ever try to convince 760 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 3: yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name 761 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:11,240 Speaker 3: out loud. I see through you. You want the truth, Here's 762 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 3: the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked 763 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,319 Speaker 3: them in their sleep in the middle of the night 764 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 3: like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your blanking ass. 765 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,240 Speaker 1: Friends. There is nothing on the face of this planet 766 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: that I could add to that last comment period end 767 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: of paragraph. I hope that the victims rest in peace, 768 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,400 Speaker 1: and I hope that along the way these family members 769 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:45,280 Speaker 1: can find some sembilance of peace. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 770 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,840 Speaker 1: and this is body Backs