1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: When never told your prediction of ihet radio, And today 3 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: we are bringing a book that I am so excited 4 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: we chose I thrilled about this. So for our book 5 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: club for Women's History Month, we're doing I don't think 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: we've ever done one quite like this. We are talking 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: about Madeline Lingles nineteen sixty two classic, A Wrinkle in Time. 8 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: It's a young adult science fiction fantasy novel that explores 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: themes of feeling different, conformity, science, religion, family, and love. 10 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: It tackles some pretty big ideas, but in a way 11 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: that is accessible and really creative and draws you in. 12 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: It encourages curiosity, it asks questions, It encourages you being yourself. 13 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: While it was rejected by several publishers, about twenty six publishers. 14 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: Apparently they thought it had too much evil for a 15 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: children's book, and having a girl being the main protagonist, 16 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: and the science fiction book just wasn't done At the time, 17 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: they were really struggling with like, what is this? How 18 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: do we classify this book? It did go on to 19 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: be a massive critical success, including winning at numerous awards 20 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: like the Newberry Medal in nineteen sixty three, and it's 21 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: a hugely popular and beloved book. It is still relevant today. 22 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: I was struck by it rereading it this time. It 23 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: sold over ten million copies. It's been adapted more than 24 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: once as a film. It has audio productions, there's an opera, 25 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: there's a graphic novel, and it's featured in countless other properties. 26 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: And it helped pave the way for other feet male protagonist. 27 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: This book is also the first in a series that 28 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: follows the characters and their families. I believe she wrote 29 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: like forty to sixty books. She wrote a lot of books. Yes, 30 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: just a fun fact about Lingole, who we are going 31 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: to talk about more about her beliefs in the themes. 32 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: She worked alongside Betty Frieden on her university literary magazine 33 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: and once said, I'm a female. Why would I give 34 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: all the best ideas to a male? 35 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: Amen? 36 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: Right? Right? So there were a couple of reasons that 37 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,119 Speaker 1: this was on my mind, But one of the big 38 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: ones was I was hanging out with a friend of 39 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: mine and we were talking about I used to have 40 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: this bookshelf that she would kind of use as a library, 41 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: and she would you borrow my books, and that The 42 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: Wrinkle in Time was just so well born, and I 43 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: still have it, and it's like falling apart. I read 44 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: it so much. I loved it so much, and she said, 45 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: she said, like, I remember thinking I should choose this one, 46 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: because clearly this is a well loved book of hers. 47 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: And it's true. I did want to go over this 48 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: before we get started, and then I wanted to ask you, 49 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: because you've also read it before this, so I really 50 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: did remember quite a bit about it. On the reread. 51 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: I remembered the plot pretty much. I remembered there's an 52 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: illustration in it, for clear as day. I remember that illustration, 53 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: which we are going to talk about. There's a character 54 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: named Calvin. I did not remember at all, which I 55 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: think is very telling given some things about me I 56 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: will talk about. I do remember when they get to 57 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: Kamisots and kind of the like uniform jump roping and 58 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: playing and that being really creeped out by that whole idea. 59 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: I really remember the eating scene where they were eating 60 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: the food and it's like bland, and then Charles, Charles 61 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: Wallace gets super into it, and then I remember the 62 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: Big Brain and how Meg defeated it, So I feel 63 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: I think it was there. I think most of the 64 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: stuff was there. I remember, other than Calvin, the characters 65 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: were all there. 66 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, No, I remember very little. Actually I only 67 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: read it once, and I think I read it due 68 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: to its popularity and being religious as a young kid 69 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: and loving C. S. Lewis. I think I had like 70 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: a pretty conceived feeling that it wasn't going to be 71 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: as good or it wasn't going to be as good 72 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: in my book, because I loved all of the like 73 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: the Lion, the Witch, the Wardrobes, Chronicles of Narnia, so 74 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: this was a little different. So I don't remember, like 75 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: I can clearly tell you everything about the Chronicles of 76 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: Narnia the things about this book, and I don't know. 77 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: I read the other two that go along with it. 78 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: It's a trilogy, right, it's Quintet, oh Quintet. But I 79 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: did not remember hardly anything. I knew there were three 80 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: kids that went on the adventure. I knew the dad 81 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: was missing, and I remember thinking that because the dad 82 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: was not as significant a role as it plays out 83 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: to be. Like the recent release with Chris Pine, you 84 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 2: know I'm talking about you know, he plays the father. 85 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: Disney The New Yeah, okay, I didn't know Chris Pine was. 86 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: Yes, he plays the father, but yeah, I just remember again. 87 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 2: I also forgot about Calvin. I really thought it was 88 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 2: three sibling groups. I forgot the youngest existing, uh at all. 89 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: I don't know why. 90 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: In my mind it was the twins who were but 91 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: they weren't twins. It was just two boys, so it 92 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: wasn't like the twins specifically. It could have been the 93 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 2: youngest one, but I didn't remember how young he was. 94 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: What I do remember again is the three sibling groups. 95 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: I remember the two D world because that whole feeling 96 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: of like I couldn't breathe. I was like, oh yeah, 97 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: I remember the scene because it made me panic a 98 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: little bit the way it was described. I remember the 99 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: three creatures, the women missus which missus what all of those? 100 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: I remember them, and that they weren't worldly. That I remember. 101 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: That's all I remember. I forgot about Aunt Beast, which 102 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: if I read it back then, I probably would have 103 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: loved and fixated on her mainly because of like the 104 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: kindness and the touch and all of that. That I 105 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: was like, huh, I can't believe I can't remember her either, 106 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: like I did not remember much at all. I did 107 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: not remember the brain and didn't remember the brain I remember. 108 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: I think that probould be about it. And I remember 109 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: again the mother being the beautiful woman. M h that 110 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: was a clear part in my head. 111 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well this was a big I obviously read 112 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: it a ton when I was a kid, and I 113 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: read all of the series, and I read a lot 114 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: of her books. I obviously did not read all forty 115 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: to sixty, however mean it is, but I read a 116 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: lot of the I read that whole quintet, and then 117 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: I read she did like a some others that were 118 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: kind of similar, and I read those. So maybe it 119 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: was just my thing. I'm not sure. But it is 120 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: a quick read. It goes fast, like the plot is 121 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: like nope, we're moving on. Yeah. 122 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: I thought like the ending was a lot faster, Like 123 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: the resolve was way quicker than the actual adventure part 124 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,559 Speaker 2: that I was like, wait, that was quick. 125 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: She solved that really quickly. What just happened? Yep, yep, 126 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: you just need to figure out the power of love, Samantha, 127 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: power of law? Yes, okay, well I would I would 128 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: love to hear from listeners about this because it is 129 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: a big As I said, it's had a huge impact. 130 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: It's also very commonly on like reader's list or something 131 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: that you read for school. So let us know your 132 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: thoughts and I've yeah, I guess no spoilers, but because 133 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: this has been out for a while, yes, and it 134 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: gets referenced everywhere. But uh, here we go. Let's go 135 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: over the plot. The story follows thirteen year old Meg Murray, 136 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: who is a bit of an outcast at her school, 137 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: playing as she calls herself an incredibly smart Her younger brother, 138 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: Charles Wallace, is also incredibly smart and seems to have 139 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: some kind of extrasensory gift, and Meg's parents are both scientists. However, 140 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: her father went missing while doing some top secret work 141 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: for the government, and he hasn't been seen or heard 142 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: from in many years, a fact that causes a lot 143 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: of gossip around town that infuriates Meg. Meg has never 144 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: given up on the facts that he will return. One night, 145 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,479 Speaker 1: Meg and her mom meet an acquaintance of Charles Wallace's, 146 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: a quirky neighbor named missus What's It? She brings up 147 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: a tesser act, something that seems to leave Meg's mom 148 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: really shaken to get answers. Charles Wallace and Meg go 149 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: to visit her the next day and run into a 150 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: boy Meg's age, named Calvin. Calvin explains that he had 151 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: a feeling that he should be there, and the three 152 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: of them go to visit Missus What's It, only to 153 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: meet Missus Who a woman who speaks through quotes and 154 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 1: literary references, and they also meet an unseen presence named 155 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: Missus Witch. They promise to help Meg and Charles Wallace 156 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: find their father. The three women teleport the children through 157 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: space time to the planet Uriel, where they explain that 158 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: they just traveled by tess ring or wrinkling, And this 159 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: is where the illustration comes in. But basically, by using 160 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: the fifth dimension, they take something that would be a 161 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: long distance and wrinkle it so it is a short one. 162 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: So in the illustration, it's a string pulled tot with 163 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: an ant going across it, and then the fingers holding 164 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: the string come together to wrinkle the string and the 165 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: ant has to travel a much shorter distance. I remember 166 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: it so clearly. The process is more noticeably uncomfortable to Meg, 167 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: who doesn't have the extrasensory whatever that Charles Wallace and 168 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: Calvin do Missus What's It, the youngest of the three women, 169 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: who is still over a billion years old, has the 170 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: easiest time vocalizing, meaning speaking in English to them in 171 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: this case at least, so she transforms into a pegasus 172 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: and takes the three children up past the atmosphere to 173 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: show them the Black Thing, a cloud of black that 174 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: threatens the entire universe, including Earth. They visit a friend 175 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: of the women, happy Medium, who uses her crystal ball 176 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: to show the partial cover around Earth that so far 177 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: has been held back over the years by various thinkers, scientists, 178 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: and artist. Missus What's It informs the kids that she 179 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: was once a star that sacrificed herself to fight back 180 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: the dark. They then go to Kamizots, a planet completely 181 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: overtaken by the Black Thing, and the W's as they're 182 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: called tell them that their father is somewhere here. He's 183 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: somewhere nearby. They tell the children that it will be 184 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: very dangerous and that they need to stay together. While 185 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: the women cannot accompany them, they give them gifts and 186 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: some parting words. They strengthen Calvin's ability to communicate, Charles 187 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: Wallace's childhood resilience, and they give Meg her faults Missus, 188 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: who also gives Meg her glasses to be used as 189 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: a last resort, and Charles Wallace is warned that he 190 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: doesn't know everything. Then the children set off. It is 191 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: immediately clear something is wrong here. They walk through a 192 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: neighborhood where everything looks the same. The children jump rope 193 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: at exactly the same rhythm. They bounce their balls at 194 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: the same time. Their mothers all open the door at 195 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: the same time. When one of the children falters bouncing 196 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: his ball out of sink, his terrified mother rushes him 197 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: inside and refuses to answer any of the trio's questions 198 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: when they attempt to return his ball back to him, 199 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: especially because they don't have papers. She keeps asking, like 200 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: where are your papers? They stop someone else who is 201 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: equally suspicious of them, and he tells them to go 202 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: to Central Central Intelligence, where they immediately are reported and 203 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: taken it to the Man with the Red Eyes, who 204 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: is controlled, along with everybody else, by a large telepathic 205 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: brain called it Red Eyes, hypnotizes Charles Wallace, who Charles 206 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: Wallace kind of let it happen because he thought I 207 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: could use this to find our father before Meg stops him. 208 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: They are able to get away, and Charles Wallace leads 209 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: them deeper inside, explaining that everything is the way it 210 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: is here because everyone's uniqueness has been stripped away. They 211 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: find Meg and Charles Wallace's father being held prisoner, but 212 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: he cannot see them or hear them through the glass 213 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: walls that are encasing him. Meg uses missus Who's glasses 214 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: to reach him and they reunite, only for Charles Wallace 215 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: to lead them to it. It attempts to hypnotize Meg, 216 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: her father, Doctor Murray, I guess I should have said, 217 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: and Calvin, just as it has Charles Wallace. At first, 218 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: they are able to resist by shouting things that might 219 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: not make much sense to it, but upon realizing that 220 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: they won't last long, doctor Murray testers them away to 221 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: a nearby planet, leaving Charles Wallace behind. This requires them 222 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: moving through the black Thing, and Meg is temporarily paralyzed. 223 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: The planet's inhabitants have forearms, tentacles, and featureless faces. They 224 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: cannot see. One of them patiently nurses Meg back to health. 225 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: Meg calls her aunt Beast. The W's arrive and say 226 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: that it is up to Meg to save Charles Wallace, 227 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,479 Speaker 1: claiming that she has something it doesn't. She is transported 228 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: back to it and realizes it is her love for 229 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: Charles Wallace that will save him. Once the hypnosis is broken, 230 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: the W's and the rest tester back to Earth to 231 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: the Murray Home. A few minutes before they left there, 232 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: their mother had a reunion with her husband, and the 233 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: W's disappear the end. I loved it. I'm so glad 234 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: we chose this lego. I remember, I remember why I 235 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: loved this so much. People have written a lot about this, 236 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: So we are going to go over some themes, but 237 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: just know there's so much written about this, right If 238 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: you want to look more. 239 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 3: Into theological studies on this series, oh yes absolutely, But 240 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: that does bring us to one of the first themes 241 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about, which is signed It's in Religion, 242 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: because this is a very science heavy book, and it's 243 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 3: really interesting to me that it was aimed at a 244 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 3: young adult audience, but it's talking about like the fifth dimension, 245 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 3: and it has all these scientific principles that they bring in. 246 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: They have all these scientists they bring up. Both Charles 247 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: Wallace and Meg are very smart, like scientifically, mathematically all 248 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: of that. But then you have these big themes of 249 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: religion also in spirituality, so the themes of light and dark, 250 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: that's a big one, and the light being like the 251 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: love of God or the love of Jesus Christ or 252 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: something like that. You do have this moment where the 253 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: children are saying of the w's, oh my gosh, you're 254 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: guardian angels, and they're kind of like, uh, yeah, but 255 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: not really. And I think that's interesting too, because there's 256 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: a lot in this book I love about how language 257 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: limits ys maybe, or understanding limit says maybe. And it's 258 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 1: fascinating to me just the different ways that ws communicate 259 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: because they've been around so long and so having that 260 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: idea of maybe this is the best way you can 261 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: understand a concept, but that might not necessarily be what 262 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: it is, but that's how you understand it. There's also 263 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: a big thing throughout the whole book of curiosity and 264 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: asking questions, so you know their names, what's it missus? Who? Missus? 265 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: Which just having these questions. It is a very creative 266 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: story in terms of you know, on this plant as 267 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: a two dimensional planet. You know, here they're singing the 268 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: song you don't understand, but maybe somebody can interpret it 269 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: for you or with missus Beast. You know, she kept 270 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: saying to Meg, I don't understand this sea concept that 271 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: I don't see. You need to tell me in a 272 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: different way, and so asking those questions and trying to 273 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: not always arriving at the answers. So here's a quote. 274 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: But you see, Meg, just because we don't understand doesn't 275 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: mean that the explanation doesn't exist. So there is that 276 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: level of it, but there's also a very mysteries of 277 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: the universe level of it, like we might never know, 278 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, here's a quote. We look not at 279 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: the things which are what you would call seen, but 280 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: at the things which are not seen. For the things 281 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: which are seen are temporal, but the things which are 282 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: not seen are eternal. Yeah, that was a Missus Beast. 283 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: M m hmmm. I like miss Beast. Missus Beast was great, Yes, 284 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: And so I did want to put a quick point 285 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: in here about the author's views because I was really like, huh, 286 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: what's going on here? Because it's got so much science 287 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: in it, and it's got all this religion in it. 288 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: So Lingol was very interested in modern science. She was 289 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: also what was called a liberal Christian or a universal Christian, 290 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: and she got a lot of flak for that at 291 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: the time from conservative Christians. She got the most flack 292 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: for that than from any secular audience. Obviously. Yeah, they 293 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: hated that she brought up Buddha. They hated that she 294 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: had a happy meat a witch using a crystal ball. 295 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: They thought, like the three the W's were witches. And 296 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: also universal Christian if you don't know means even if 297 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: you don't believe God loves you enough, you're gonna be fine, 298 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: which conservative Christians do not like. 299 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: No, Yeah, apparently she attended Episcopal Church, which is a 300 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: lot more well known now. But yeah, during the hell 301 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: far Burnstone era of these times, that was not so 302 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: much alive. But we also know the splintering of different 303 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: kinds of religion a bit different sects, and especially like 304 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: among the Protestants, that they want it, they love hating 305 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: on their own. 306 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, I've talked about before. Yep, we sure have, 307 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: We sure have. And she she wrote a lot of 308 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: essays about it and kind of came to terms with it, 309 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: and she was a very she had her specific belief 310 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: system and I believe she said of this book, this 311 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: is like the most religious thing I've ever written, Like 312 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: this is the most true to how I feel in 313 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: my spiritual beliefs. So she also uses a lot of 314 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: names from different religions in the books. So like camizots 315 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: is I think, a Mayan god, Uriel obviously, Archangel Malek 316 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: is Hebrew, I think. So a lot of a lot 317 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: of the names are there in there are very religious, 318 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: and she is somebody who was really interested in religion 319 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: and studying religion. So that was interesting. And the book 320 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: has been on the top one hundred most banned books 321 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: list since at least the nineteen nineties for being anti 322 00:21:54,359 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: Christian and promoting witchcraft Bible verses in there. When asked 323 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: about this by The New York Times, Lingle said, first 324 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: I felt horror than anger, and finally I said, all 325 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: the hell with it. It's great publicity. Really she is correct, yep, yep, okay. 326 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: So another big theme is conformity versus individuality. So I 327 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: wanted to read this quote from the forward by Anna Quinnlin, 328 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: Conformity knows no time or place. It is the struggle 329 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: all of us face to be ourselves despite the overwhelming 330 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: pressure to be like everyone else. Perhaps one of the 331 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: most compelling and moving descriptions of that internal battle comes 332 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: near the end of the book when Missus Watson tells 333 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: the children that life, with its rules, its obligations, and 334 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: its freedoms, is like a sonnet. You're given the form, 335 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: but you have to write the sonnet yourself. What you 336 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: say is completely up to you. This book came out 337 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: during the Cold War and America's fear of communism. However, 338 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: later interviews and a cut passage from the book revealed 339 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: that it is not a commentary on communism so much 340 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: as dictatorship and totalitarianism. It also came out after the 341 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: growing post World War two suburbia, so we're getting these 342 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: blossoming of neighborhoods that do look exactly the same. Yes, 343 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: and if you think about the dark thing, there's obviously 344 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: the darkness, the light versus dark, but it's also kind 345 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: of the conformity of it's taking away, it's shadowing your uniqueness, 346 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: it's flattening things, it's holding earth back. And there is 347 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: a through line through the book of when conforming or 348 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: following the rules hold you back. And so one of 349 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: the examples that really suck out to me is Meg 350 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: is talking about doing her math home work. Now she's really, 351 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: really good at it, but the teacher always docks her 352 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: because she doesn't she doesn't show her work in the 353 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: way he thinks she should show her work. And this 354 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: happened to me in high school. 355 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: It happened to me in middle school. 356 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: It's what I was the only one who got the 357 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: answer right, and the teacher brought me up to the 358 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: board to show everybody, and I did it, and he 359 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: was like, how did you do that? I said, well, look, 360 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: I just did it. I was saying what I was 361 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: doing it. And he was like, but that doesn't make sense, 362 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: and I said, well, I got the right answer. 363 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: Apparently it does me. 364 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: It did to me, but it didn't make sense to 365 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: anybody else. I guess, you know, sometimes it works that way, 366 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: and it's okay, yes, yeah, So that being an instance 367 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: of conforming holding her back, like she's having to spend 368 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: more time to do it in this one specific way. 369 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: And then the language I do, Like I said, I 370 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: I love that aspect of this where and this is 371 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: a really popular something that's popularly explored in science fiction 372 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: books is when we don't have the words for things 373 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: and they exist, but we just the language isn't there 374 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: to describe it. And so I love that with the 375 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: Wus and how they communicate, and I love how they're 376 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: trying to communicate with these kids from Earth who have 377 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: this kind of because language can put your thoughts in 378 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: a box if you're not careful, like because you don't 379 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: have the words for something, then you can you're like, 380 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: well that doesn't exist, but it might and you just 381 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: don't have the words for it yet. So here's a quote. 382 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: It's in miss Witch's voice, and I'm not going to 383 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: do it, but she is kind of like an embodied 384 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: ghostly voice. Everybody, there will no longer be so many 385 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: pleasant things to look at if responsible people do not 386 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: do something about the unpleasant ones. Yes, and then there's 387 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: this whole idea of taking away choice or relinquishing choice, 388 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe doing that willfully or not. Here's 389 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: a quote from it. You see, what you will soon 390 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: realize is that there is no need to fight me. 391 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: Not only is there no need, but you will not 392 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: have the slightest desire to do so. For why should 393 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: you wish to fight someone who is here only to 394 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: save you pain and trouble for you, as well as 395 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: for the rest of all of the happy, useful people 396 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: on this planet I and my own strength am willing 397 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: to assume all the pain, all the responsibility, all the 398 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: burdens of thought and decision. So obviously this is a 399 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: been a theme that has been explored in a lot 400 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: of things. One that has through like the test of time. 401 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: I remember is a book I got at the book fair, 402 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: which the book fair was awesome, by the way, still around. 403 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: I'd loved the book fair. It was like the most 404 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: exciting thing. But there was a series called pen Dragon, 405 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: and it was It was a series where in the 406 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: main character would go to different planets and try to 407 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: save them from falling. I like a like some historical 408 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: point that they point of no return, you try to stop. 409 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: And I think for the first four books success, but 410 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: like I think it's the fifth one. The fourth or 411 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: fifth one. He goes to this planet where they invent 412 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: like a pod you can get into and you can 413 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: live like a virtual life, and you know, it looks 414 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: like it's going on all great and all this stuff, 415 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: and then in the end everybody chooses to go into 416 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: the pod, even though they know they'll die, because they'd 417 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: rather live their virtual life than live their real life. 418 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: And I've never forgotten it that was the first planet 419 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: he lost. Yea, yes, it's dark right, They all even 420 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: and he was like, don't you know you'll die? Like 421 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't care. Oh my gosh. And 422 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: I'm like a twelve year old reading this thing. Oh no, 423 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: but it's one of those things where you can't like. 424 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: When I was reading that book, I was thinking, their 425 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: their virtual lives do sound really nice. They would describe 426 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: them like, oh, it's a matrix for kids, exactly exactly. 427 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: It got me. I still remember it. I still remember 428 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: if anybody's read Pin Dragon. 429 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 2: I have never read Pin Dragon, but I did. We 430 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 2: were driving by a bus in our little town near 431 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: us and they had a giant truck for the book 432 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: fair art there unloading books. 433 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: I was like, oh. 434 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 2: Yaych Elastic book Fair made me very happy. 435 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: Yes, oh, I loved it so much. Another part of 436 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: this whole thing is embracing your weirdness. So if you're 437 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: fighting against the conformity of it all, embracing your weirdness, 438 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: and it go out of its way to show that 439 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: children being taught conform me. They're being taught it from 440 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: a very young age that you should this is how 441 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: you should be. If you're not that, then something is 442 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: wrong with you. You've got Meg being bullied for not being 443 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: smart enough or pretty enough, even though she's, like we've said, 444 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: very smart, she just doesn't do it in the quote 445 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: traditional way. Here's a quote. But of course, we can't 446 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: take any credits for our talents. It's how we use 447 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: them that counts. And then here's another one, Meg, I 448 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: give you your faults, my faults. Meg cried your faults, but 449 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm always trying to get rid of my faults. Yes, missus, 450 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: what's it said? However, I think you'll find they'll come 451 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: in very handy on camasots. And they did, yeah, because 452 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: the brain didn't know what to do. It was like 453 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: whoa had to deal with this before? And then you 454 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: can see like it's a real air of paranoia on Camus. 455 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: Eye's everybody being worried that people are trying to catch 456 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: them out for not conforming that they're going to be reprocessed. 457 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: So having those faults are that uniqueness being erased by 458 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: fear or controlled by fear. There's also some ableism in 459 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: it because Charles Wallace is four years old. I believe 460 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: he's young, and he's very smart, but he only really 461 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: talks to his family, and there's just a lot of 462 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: rumors that something is wrong with him and his development. 463 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: And I think Meg also got some of those. I 464 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: haven't been talking about the twins much because they're barely 465 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: they're siblings of twins, because they're barely there in this book. 466 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: But they were sort of the quote normal ones. But yeah, 467 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: there's an air of that as well. And then you know, 468 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: also fighting conformity. We've got some weird role models who 469 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: are women perhaps because this is another thing I like 470 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: about science fiction. They present as women on earth, but 471 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: they also transform, potentially change genders. And I know I 472 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: talked about this with Octavia Butler, but Octavia Butler wrote 473 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: about this a lot in her books about again, if 474 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: the language doesn't exist, like we're still in kind of 475 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: a binary perhaps, but there's all this other stuff that, 476 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's not what we were, and we 477 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: just that they were, and we don't have the word 478 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: for it, yeah, or the understanding for it yet, right, Yes, 479 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: and they are billions of years old, billion eOne. We'll 480 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: talk about that. That she was a star, Yes, this 481 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: is what's it. Yeah, And so they would have such 482 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: a different understanding of things than all of us would have, 483 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: all of us mere humans would have. I think about 484 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: this a lot with Yoda, like he must have a 485 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: completely different maybe nine hundred years old right then, and 486 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: people different like humans die so young compared to I 487 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: don't know. I do think about this, yes, yeah, well 488 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: I have to. I have to. And also yeah, through that, 489 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: through all of that challenging what you think, and they 490 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: do often ask the kids questions like what do you 491 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: think of this? Or do you think this? Are just 492 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: pushing them to really consider and I kind of love 493 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: that there. They don't back down. They're like, no, really 494 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: think about this. You've kind of made me angry with 495 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: what you said, actually, so I want you to think 496 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: about it. And then kind of going off of that 497 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: at the end, when Meg has to go, she's the 498 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: one that they say, You're the one that asks to 499 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: go to Camusots to rescue Charles Wallace and her dad 500 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: and Calvin are both like, no, way, it's me or 501 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: she's not going alone, and it's the three ws that 502 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: are like, no, she can do it. She's gonna do it. 503 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: You can't do it. And so I kind of liked 504 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: that flip because it could come off as pretty brutal 505 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: that they're selling no, send this young girl right there 506 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: by herself. But instead they're no, she can do it, 507 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: and we're not gonna hold her back, right, yes, And 508 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: that brings us to the power of love. This is 509 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: what saves Charles Wallace. This is what Meg realizes, Oh, 510 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: this is what I have that not only the brain 511 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't have, but her father doesn't have because he 512 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: wasn't really there. He didn't know Charles Wallace. Calvin doesn't 513 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: have right. She was the one that loved Charles Wallace 514 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 1: and he loved her, and he loved her. Yeah, and 515 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: they were siblings who really saw each other and had 516 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: a connection. And we're both outcasts but understood each other. 517 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: Like Charles Wallace will say stuff completely out of nowhere 518 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 1: and Meg would just be like, all right, yeah, sure, 519 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: let's go. Okay, I believe you. And this brings us 520 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: to my final point. I would say, as I mentioned, 521 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: you can read so much about these books, but I 522 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: wanted to just say the importance of childhood books like this, 523 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: the importance of the book fair, the importance of something 524 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: that you read and means so much to you. And 525 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: this book has a lot of themes about coming of 526 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: age at your own time, on your own terms, feeling 527 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: less alone, and as a reader, you feel less alone 528 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: reading it. It also has a theme of when you 529 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,760 Speaker 1: realize your parents aren't perfect. Because Meg thought her dad, 530 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,800 Speaker 1: like finding her dad would fix everything, he would fix everything, 531 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: and she gets kind of mad him because he, in 532 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: her mind, left Charles Walls behind and then he's not 533 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: the one that can save him. She is, but also 534 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: that you are not perfect and that's okay. So like 535 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: giving men her faults and being like, nope, this is 536 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: what's this is what's going to say to you. And 537 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: it is really cool to see how many people of 538 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 1: all types were impacted by this book and how young 539 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: people today are still reading it. I was reading a 540 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: Smithsonian article about it, and it was just so many 541 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: people have mentioned this book. Without this book, I don't 542 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: know if I would have done what I did, and 543 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: so that's amazing and I do too. I do too. 544 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 1: I'm so glad we chose this book. 545 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 2: I'm glad to read it as an adult and not 546 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 2: a prejudiced Christian child. 547 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: I was glad to read it as an adult too, 548 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: because it does have some pretty big concepts in it. 549 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: And I after I read it, I thought, oh, I 550 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: think I understood this well enough as a child, but 551 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: I really understand it. Yeah now as an adult. It's 552 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: just fantastic. Well listeners, please let us know if you 553 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: have any thoughts about this book, or any books that 554 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: you feel had a huge impact on your childhood, We 555 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: would love to know. You can email us at Hello 556 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: at stuffonnevertold you dot com. You can find us on 557 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: Polu Scott Mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok 558 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: at Stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. 559 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: We have merchandise at Common Bureau, and we have a 560 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks 561 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: as always too, our super just Christine, our executive Bruce, 562 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: to my an contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to 563 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told you this prediction 564 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: of my Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 565 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,240 Speaker 1: you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 566 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.