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Speaker 1: There comes a moment when you know you have to

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Speaker 1: do something new. Jack Carr went from Navy seal commander

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Speaker 1: to best selling author of The Terminalist. He shares how

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Speaker 1: to know when it's time to move on and embrace

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Speaker 1: a new mission. I'll get into it all on this

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Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande show. Come on, I'm Raimond Arroyo. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: a Royal Grande. Go subscribe to the show. Now turn

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Speaker 1: the notifications on. You want to know what's coming. We've

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Speaker 1: got a great series of interviews coming. And for twenty years,

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Speaker 1: Jack Carr served the country as a Navy seal. He

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Speaker 1: led special operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philippines. He poured

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Speaker 1: all that experience into action pack thrillers like The Terminalists

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Speaker 1: The Devil's Hand in his most recent book, Cry Havoc,

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Speaker 1: a prequel to The Terminalist. He is a New York

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Speaker 1: Times best selling author. Of course, it's a joy to

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Speaker 1: have Jack Carr on Arroyo Grande. Jack, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being here. You just got back from Morocco. What were

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Speaker 1: you doing there?

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Speaker 2: I did do a little filming there for the next

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Speaker 2: season of the TV show. So for True Believer. In

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Speaker 2: my second book. So we're going to wrap that up

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Speaker 2: over the next month and a half or so, and

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Speaker 2: I don't know exactly when it will come out, but

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Speaker 2: I think next summer. Based on past events, I would

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Speaker 2: guess next summer, but nothing officially.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we're going to talk about Dark Wolf, the

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Speaker 1: new prequel to the Terminal List and which is really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into that in a little bit. But you

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Speaker 1: first learned about the Navy Seals when you were seven

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Speaker 1: years old. How did that happen?

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Speaker 2: That's right, Well, I'll tell you, but first I have

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Speaker 2: to I promise my wife that I would say, you

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Speaker 2: know that we enjoy watching you so much when you're

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Speaker 2: when you're on TV and when you're on Laurel, you

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Speaker 2: bring a uh, you bring a logic, humor, and most importantly,

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Speaker 2: I think a thoughtfulness to everything that you do.

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Speaker 1: So Jack, well, thank your what your wife has very

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Speaker 1: good taste. Jack, I'll like share that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll take that too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, very kind to you.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I found out about seals early on. I

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Speaker 2: think serving the military was just in my blood regardless.

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Speaker 2: But I also had some family military history. My grandfather

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Speaker 2: was killed off Oknawa in nineteen forty five. He was

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Speaker 2: a Marine Corse air pilot, which are those planes that

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Speaker 2: had the goal wings that fold up so they could

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Speaker 2: fit on aircraft carriers. And back in the late seventies

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Speaker 2: early eighties, there was a TV show on called Black

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Speaker 2: Sheep Squadron with Robert Conrad as Pappy Boynton. And Pappy

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Speaker 2: Boynton was a Marine Corsair pilot served in World War Two,

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Speaker 2: received the Medal of Honor and it was pow actually.

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Speaker 2: And so that was that generation, like my father's generation

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Speaker 2: and mine. That's connection to his father, who he never knew,

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Speaker 2: was through the medium of popular culture because there wasn't Facebook.

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Speaker 2: There weren't people you couldn't know who to write a

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Speaker 2: letter to. You just didn't didn't know. You couldn't connect

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Speaker 2: with that generation because they came home and just got

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Speaker 2: back to work. If you lost a father, there was

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Speaker 2: very hard to find someone who knew him could tell

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Speaker 2: you a little. We watched war movies and TV shows

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Speaker 2: and all those things. And I grew up with his wings,

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Speaker 2: his medals, the pictures of him and his squadron. Maps

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Speaker 2: they used to give aviators back then, because if you

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Speaker 2: had a paper map, it would just disintegrate when you

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Speaker 2: hit the water, so a silk map would just get wet,

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Speaker 2: but you could still use it. So I had all

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Speaker 2: those things. I still have them today. I think they

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Speaker 2: made an impact. Uh. And then I found out about

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Speaker 2: seals in second grade, so seven years old, found out

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Speaker 2: about seals once again through the medium of popular culture,

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Speaker 2: through an old movie called The Frogmen and my mom's librarian.

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Speaker 2: So I grew up surrounded by books and a love

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Speaker 2: of reading. As you can you can tell here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can.

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Speaker 2: And we went to a local library and did some research.

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Speaker 2: And back then, if you remember, you could find the

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Speaker 2: end of the Internet by getting to the end of

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Speaker 2: that bookshelf. And I did all the search I could

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Speaker 2: possibly do on seals and special operations in general, and

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Speaker 2: I knew that was my.

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Speaker 1: Path on laz What did your dad, dude track?

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Speaker 2: He was He was an attorney and retired a bit ago.

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Speaker 2: So I had that legal side from my dad and

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Speaker 2: the books from my from my mom, and they both

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Speaker 2: encouraged reading and read to me every day until I

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Speaker 2: could read myself. And then by the time I was

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Speaker 2: in fifth grade, that's about the time I switched from

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Speaker 2: kind of the adult fiction into the same kind of

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Speaker 2: books my parents were reading. Certainly by sixth grade, I

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Speaker 2: was reading those kind of books. And that was around

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Speaker 2: the time that Hunter for Red October came out. And

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Speaker 2: then I'm finding a lot of books actually through my mom,

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Speaker 2: but also through the novelizations that they used to do

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Speaker 2: in the nineties. So I found Rambo First Blood Part

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Speaker 2: two novelization written by David Morrell, who created the character

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Speaker 2: Rambo back in eighteen seventy two, with First Blood, a

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Speaker 2: book that's never been out of print. And so I

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Speaker 2: just started reading all those books with protagonists that had

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Speaker 2: backgrounds in real life that I wanted to have or

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Speaker 2: in the books that I wanted to have in real life.

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Speaker 2: One day, so reading all David Morrel and Neilson, to

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Speaker 2: mill Agy, Quinell, J. C. Pollock, Mark Olden, Louis the Moore,

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Speaker 2: Stephen Hunter, Tom Clancy, all these guys who became my

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Speaker 2: professors in the art of storytelling. And I just feel

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Speaker 2: fortunate that my parents made reading and books just as

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Speaker 2: natural is sitting down to eat.

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Speaker 1: Well, I love that your mother read aloud to you.

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Speaker 1: You know, I recently had Megan coxcurtin here, who's the

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Speaker 1: children's reviewer. She reviewed children's books for the Wall Street Journal.

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Speaker 1: She wrote a book called The Enchanted Hour, and it's

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Speaker 1: about reading aloud and the power of reading aloud. Give

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Speaker 1: me a sense of what that did, how that shaped

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Speaker 1: your sense of adventure. There's something also, there's an emotional

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Speaker 1: connection made I think when parents and family members read

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Speaker 1: to their children and vice versa.

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Speaker 2: Certainly I still have memories of that, of going over

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Speaker 2: to pick a book on our bookshelf, picking it out,

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Speaker 2: running over to the couch and sitting there with them.

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Speaker 2: They'd switch off nights of who's going to read to

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Speaker 2: us and sitting there and I can all the way

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Speaker 2: back to books like like like Make Way for Ducklings

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Speaker 2: or like Tony's Hard Work Day or The Giving Tree,

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Speaker 2: and on all those books. I have these amazing memories

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Speaker 2: of them reading those to me and then us as

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Speaker 2: I had my brother and sister growing up, and us

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Speaker 2: all being there together on the couch, no TV on,

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Speaker 2: nothing like that. But you're right, there's a connection that

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Speaker 2: comes through reading that doesn't really come any other way.

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Speaker 2: And it was certainly foundational to everything that I was

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Speaker 2: going to do later in life, both in the seal

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Speaker 2: teams and then now as an author.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. No, the imprint because you're also imprinting tone values,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the intangibles in between, the imaginative sharing

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Speaker 1: of that story. She's right, it's an enchanted hour. There's

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Speaker 1: something enchanted about it and deeply human. I mean, we're

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Speaker 1: wired to hear stories, I think. And I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about your six and a half years that you

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Speaker 1: specialized in communications and intelligence in the Seals. How did

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Speaker 1: that help you as a writer to shape the material

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Speaker 1: and prepare you know, right, Look, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: daunting task. I've been there too. The start is the

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Speaker 1: hardest part.

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Speaker 2: This is this is true, and then you get some

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Speaker 2: momentum going and then you're really what you're doing is

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Speaker 2: solving problems on the page. That's what I find myself

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Speaker 2: doing range in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was solving problems

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Speaker 2: aggressively and creatively on the battlefield, and they're doing the

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Speaker 2: same thing on the pages of a novel. But I

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Speaker 2: can come back and edit those the next day if

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Speaker 2: it's not great. So the stakes are a lot lower

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Speaker 2: obviously when I'm writing writing the books, but very similar.

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Speaker 2: You looking for gaps in the enemy's defenses. You're looking

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Speaker 2: to adapt to that enemy faster than they're adapting to

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Speaker 2: You're looking to capitalize un momentum, but really problem solve.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what I'm doing in the pages and

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Speaker 2: back in the seal team. So I was in for

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Speaker 2: twenty four years, but you're right, those six and a

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Speaker 2: half years that I was enlisted, I was in communications

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Speaker 2: guy in my platoon, the comms guy, and then the

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Speaker 2: intelligence representative for my seal platoon. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: if those specific things helped as far as when it

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Speaker 2: comes to running a novel, but overall the twenty year

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Speaker 2: experience certainly did, and not in the way that most

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Speaker 2: people would think, and not in the way that I

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Speaker 2: thought at first either. When I sat down to write

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Speaker 2: for the first time, I thought, Okay, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: get the sniper weapon systems right. I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: some of those types of things right. And if I

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Speaker 2: don't know something about a helicopter, an aircraft or a satellite,

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Speaker 2: I'll know someone who knows someone that can put me

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Speaker 2: in touch and I can figure the technical side out.

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Speaker 2: But what I didn't realize all the way through my

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Speaker 2: and my processes remained the same the whole time I

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Speaker 2: come up with a title and a theme and a

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Speaker 2: one page executive summary. I asked myself what that executive

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Speaker 2: summary is worth the next year, year and a half

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Speaker 2: of my life. If I say yes, I read it

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Speaker 2: again with trying to put it in some else's eye,

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Speaker 2: if they were to walk by a Hudson News and

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Speaker 2: pull it off the shelf there to read that on

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Speaker 2: the back of a book. Is this interesting enough for

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Speaker 2: them to spend time in these pages that they're never

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Speaker 2: going to get back. If the answer is yes, then

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Speaker 2: I move on to the outline. And so even through

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Speaker 2: that outline phase, I didn't realize until I sat down

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Speaker 2: to turn it into the narrative how much of my

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Speaker 2: personal experience would come in, meaning how the emotions and

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Speaker 2: feelings behind things I was involved with in Rock and

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Speaker 2: Afghanistan and other places would find themselves morphed into a

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Speaker 2: fictional narrative. So character gets ambushed in let's say Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: California is part of a completely fictional narrative. I can

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Speaker 2: remember what it was like to be ambushed in Baghdad

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and six, and I can take those

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Speaker 2: feelings and emotions and apply them to a fictional narrative.

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Speaker 1: And I think that did that surprise you? Jack? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, you've got all these emotions that Reese goes

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Speaker 1: through in that interminalist, for instance, behind the Scope as

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Speaker 1: you call it. Did it surprise you the depth of

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Speaker 1: those emotional memories and the wave of that while you

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Speaker 1: were writing the book?

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Speaker 2: It did?

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Speaker 1: It did?

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I wasn't expecting it. And then but

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Speaker 2: as soon as I wrote those first couple of sentences,

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Speaker 2: then I thought, oh, this is going to be a

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Speaker 2: much more therapeutic writing experience than I initially anticipated at

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Speaker 2: the outset. So it wasn't something that I thought about

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Speaker 2: before that those I started typing those first words. But

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Speaker 2: now it's in every book. I get emotional in every

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Speaker 2: book as I'm writing, and I think that's a good thing.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's in those types of scenes, but usually it's

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Speaker 2: in conversations with people, and I get as I get

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Speaker 2: to know those characters feelings and emotions. Certainly was a

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Speaker 2: surprise to me as I started, and it's not a

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Speaker 2: surprise to me now, but it's a part of each

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Speaker 2: and every.

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Speaker 1: Book tell me about that transition from being a seal

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Speaker 1: for twenty years, you're enlisted, you retire in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: What was the first thing you did? Did you always say,

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Speaker 1: when I'm finished this adventure, I'm going to turn to

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Speaker 1: writing books.

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Speaker 2: Yep. My earliest days, actually in sixth grade, I told

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Speaker 2: myself that I would one day write a thriller that

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Speaker 2: paid tribute to the short story The Most Dangerous Game

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Speaker 2: by Richard Connell, written in the early nineteen twenties. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they still reach it some places today, i've found out.

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Speaker 2: But I told myself back then that I do that,

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Speaker 2: And I wanted the first book to be my third one,

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Speaker 2: which is called Savage Sun, because that's the book that

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Speaker 2: pays tribute to that short story and really explores the

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Speaker 2: dark side of man through the dynamic of hunter and hunted.

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Speaker 2: But I knew I couldn't start there. I knew I

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Speaker 2: had to develop these characters and get them to a

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Speaker 2: place where I could then explore that theme. But I

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Speaker 2: always knew that after my time in the military, I

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Speaker 2: would write. And I think if I was a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: i'd be writing legal thrillers. If I had been drawn

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Speaker 2: to medicine, I would be writing medical thrillers. If I

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Speaker 2: was a police officer. I'd be writing some sort of

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Speaker 2: a crime type thriller, but it happens that I was

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Speaker 2: in the military, and I write these political thrillers. And

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Speaker 2: now this next one is more of an espionage type theme.

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Speaker 2: But what really helped more than anything else was all

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Speaker 2: that reading that I did. I mean it helped me

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Speaker 2: in the seal teams. And I'd studied history, I'd studied warfare,

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Speaker 2: I was studying my enemy. That nonfiction study coupled with

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Speaker 2: all those guys that I read growing up who essentially

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Speaker 2: became my professors in the art of storytelling, and then

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Speaker 2: add into the personal experience and that emotion and that

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Speaker 2: heart from the things I was involved with down range.

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Speaker 2: That all came together at the right time and place.

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Speaker 2: And sent the manuscript to Simon and Schuster a few

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Speaker 2: months after I got out of the military, and they

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Speaker 2: wanted to wanted it, and so off we went to

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Speaker 2: the races.

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Speaker 1: How close is Reese to you? How close is James

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Speaker 1: Reese to you? I mean, aside from your coffee habits

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Speaker 1: light roast with a little honey, half and half, I

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Speaker 1: mean homework. You done your homework, you bet I did.

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Speaker 1: I've read a lot and I mean Ian Fleming did

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Speaker 1: something similar. He did.

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Speaker 2: He's right over here actually, and these there's Fleming collection

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Speaker 2: right over there, I see them. But everything else in

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Speaker 2: here is nonfiction. The other room over there is the

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Speaker 2: all the fiction. But yeah, he did do something similar there.

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Speaker 2: But my character is definitely faster, stronger, smarter, wittier than

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Speaker 2: I could ever hope to be. And as an author,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you know this, it's you know, when

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Speaker 2: you have it, you're talking to somebody. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if this happens to you on TV. I'd be curious

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Speaker 2: if when you get off TV and you go, ah,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like what happened to you because you're

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Speaker 2: so good, But it would happen to me, and it

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Speaker 2: does happen to me. Whenever I do one of those

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Speaker 2: spots I get off, I'm like, why didn't I say this?

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Speaker 2: That would have been perfect? But as an author you

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Speaker 2: can do that. As an author, you can come back

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Speaker 2: to it, you can think it through, and you can

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Speaker 2: have the perfect response to something in the pages of

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Speaker 2: a novel that in real life you're getting yourself on

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Speaker 2: the side of the head for because you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: how did I not think of that to say in

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Speaker 2: this argument or conversation or negotiation or whatever. Yeah, it's fun.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely love every part of it. But he's we

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Speaker 2: had a similar background, both enlisted seals, both snipers, both

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Speaker 2: transitioned into the officer ranks and became retired or got

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Speaker 2: out of the military at the same time. We meet

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Speaker 2: him at a time in the first book where he's

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Speaker 2: thinking about getting out when he comes back from Afghanistan,

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Speaker 2: because that'll be the last time that he tactically maneuvers

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Speaker 2: guys on the battlefield. And when I got back from

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Speaker 2: the last trip to Iraq, I knew that was the

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Speaker 2: last time that I'd be doing that, and then I'd

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Speaker 2: been more of a managerial leadership position going forward. That

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Speaker 2: wasn't my wasn't my strength. So it's important to know

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Speaker 2: your strengths and weaknesses. And it was time for me

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Speaker 2: to get out. So I decided that after that, say

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Speaker 2: it's time to move on.

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Speaker 1: Well, while we're while we're on Ian Fleming and you

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Speaker 1: pointed him out there. I know you went to his

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Speaker 1: house in Jamaica to GoldenEye. What was that like? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you sat at the desk where he created all you know,

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Speaker 1: a number of those novels anyway I did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wrote all those novels down there. I think

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Speaker 2: it's some editing back in the UK, but it was incredible.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to go there my whole life, and then

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Speaker 2: my seventh book. I thought it was very fitting that

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Speaker 2: my seventh double seventh novel was a tribute to Ian Fleming.

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Speaker 2: So I thought, this is a great excuse to go

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Speaker 2: to Golden Eye with my wife, and so we went

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Speaker 2: down there and spent a week or so down there

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Speaker 2: where he brought these and it's an amazing place, so relaxing,

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Speaker 2: and got to see walk the same paths that he walked,

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Speaker 2: walked down to his little beach right there, stood in

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Speaker 2: the water, and just you have to think about him

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Speaker 2: being there in this place that this such creativity and

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Speaker 2: gave us, gave us bond.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, there's something about touching those places, you know.

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Speaker 1: I took my boys many years ago we were in

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Speaker 1: London and went to Charles Dickens's house and when you

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Speaker 1: stand in front of that desk where he wrote you know,

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Speaker 1: Great Expectations and Alliver Twists. I mean, it is an

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Speaker 1: amazing thing to be, you know, at that place where

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Speaker 1: so much of this literature that reshaped our culture happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I think for an author, it does

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Speaker 1: have its own power.

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Speaker 2: It does, it does act. And in twenty in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: right before COVID hit, there was a manager who managed

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Speaker 2: managers the right word for it, because it was more

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Speaker 2: of a personal relationship type of thing with Hevyway. And

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Speaker 2: he passed away I think at age one hundred or so,

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Speaker 2: maybe even one hundred and one, and later of twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 2: and all of his memorabilia went up for auction, and

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Speaker 2: back then I still didn't couldn't afford much. But somebody,

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Speaker 2: it's behind the stack of books over there, got me

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Speaker 2: Hemingway's typewriter that he wrote a movable feast on. So

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Speaker 2: it's right over there in that corner, and it's just

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Speaker 2: here and I just I can feel it. So it's

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Speaker 2: so I don't know, it's it's specially humbling to have

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Speaker 2: that and that somebody would do that for me and

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Speaker 2: have a piece of history here as I'm writing my

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Speaker 2: own books now right at this very desk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something. Look, I wrote a book about a

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Speaker 1: young boy who his family collected relics, and it's something

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Speaker 1: I think we can all sympathize with you get there

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Speaker 1: is something about having those touchstones, and it's not that

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Speaker 1: they have any magical ability, but they remind you of

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Speaker 1: that person and the dedication on the work that goes

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Speaker 1: into what you do. I know, Jack Carr is a

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Speaker 1: non diploma. That last name is intentional, particularly the sea

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Speaker 1: in car. Why did you choose that name?

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Speaker 2: Well, first it was security, and then that kind of

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Speaker 2: got blown right out of the gate, and then it

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Speaker 2: went to something that Lee Child to me before I

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Speaker 2: got published, and he said he was at this party.

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Speaker 2: No one else was there. I think he was contractually

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Speaker 2: obligated to be there. And someone called me and said,

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Speaker 2: you got to run down here to this thing if

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Speaker 2: you want to meet Lee Child. And I hadn't published yet,

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Speaker 2: I hadn't even sent it to Simon and Schuster yet.

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Speaker 2: I had a couple months left to the military. And

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Speaker 2: he said, yeah, you want to be on the shelf

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Speaker 2: next to me, next to Tom Clancy, next to Clive Cussler,

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Speaker 2: next to Mary against Clark. I went to Cromwell and

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Speaker 2: all these Sea best selling authors, and I said, yes, sir,

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Speaker 2: And so that was that's how that came about.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's where the car came from. Interesting when do

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Speaker 1: you write and where?

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Speaker 2: So here now? But it's more because we've moved around

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Speaker 2: a little bit. The first book was really between ten

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Speaker 2: o'clock at night and three in the morning, because that's

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Speaker 2: the only time it was quiet in our house. Is

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Speaker 2: I was still in the in the military, three kids, dog, wife,

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Speaker 2: chaos constantly. So unfortunately it's kind of remained that way,

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Speaker 2: just because there are so many other things going on

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Speaker 2: some screenwriting. Now, I feel like it's more of an

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Speaker 2: entrepreneurial type venture these days when you step into publishing,

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Speaker 2: very different than how I expected it to be looking

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Speaker 2: at it as of a kid in nineteen eighty five

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Speaker 2: or nineteen ninety five or something like that, where I thought,

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Speaker 2: you write a book, you send it to New York,

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Speaker 2: maybe you do one interview and an in the next one,

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Speaker 2: and maybe you do able tour. But I thought that's it,

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Speaker 2: and that was appealing to me because I am very

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Speaker 2: introverted naturally. I think I had to teach myself to

386
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Speaker 2: be more extroverted in the seal teams just to be

387
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Speaker 2: heard much rather just be in a cabin in the

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Speaker 2: mountains by myself writing, send it to New York, do

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Speaker 2: my one interview, and go back to writing. But I

390
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Speaker 2: saw we're living at different times. As I crept up

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Speaker 2: on that first publication date, I realized, Okay, we're carrying

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Speaker 2: around these devices that are meant to keep us from reading,

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Speaker 2: essentially meant to keep us from doing much deep thought,

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Speaker 2: and they're in our pockets every single day. And we're

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Speaker 2: up against the biggest, most powerful companies in the history

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Speaker 2: of mankind that are essentially keeping people from reading, and

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Speaker 2: people are reading less and less. So I thought, Okay,

398
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Speaker 2: step into this, and I need to support I have

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Speaker 2: a middle child who is severe special needs and needs

400
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Speaker 2: twenty four cents full time care forever, and I really

401
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Speaker 2: want to make sure that he's taken care of. So

402
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Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, I'm gonna have to do other things

403
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Speaker 2: than right, meaning I'm gonna have to do this marketing

404
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 2: and some advertising, and I'm gonna have to do social media.

405
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to provide something of value to people

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Speaker 2: throughout the year on these different channels so that when

407
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Speaker 2: that time comes for them to purchase the book, they

408
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Speaker 2: feel like they're a part of this journey. But it's

409
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Speaker 2: also a way for me to express gratitude because in

410
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Speaker 2: the past you could only say thank you to someone

411
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Speaker 2: on book tour and shake their hands, look them in

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Speaker 2: the eye, and that's still so powerful, But then you

413
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Speaker 2: didn't have a kny interaction with those readers for the

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Speaker 2: rest of the year, and now you can. And so

415
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Speaker 2: I try to get on every night and if somebody says, hey,

416
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Speaker 2: I got the book and I read it and I

417
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Speaker 2: loved it, thank you, and I try to say thank

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Speaker 2: you so much, really appreciate that. Or someone says they

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Speaker 2: watch the show. So I really try to get back

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Speaker 2: to everybody because I really feel fortunate that I'm doing

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Speaker 2: exactly what I wanted to do from my earliest days,

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Speaker 2: and it's sincerely appreciated.

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Speaker 1: It's a full time job, Jack, it really is. People

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Speaker 1: don't realize, you know it. The old days you could

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Speaker 1: do that. You could write your book once a year,

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Speaker 1: send it in and then you know, do a couple

427
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Speaker 1: of interviews and coast for the rest of the time.

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Speaker 1: That's no longer reality. You mentioned your middle son with

429
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Speaker 1: special needs. How has that changed you as a writer,

430
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Speaker 1: as a father? Has it changed your perspective? Has it

431
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Speaker 1: changed your work at all?

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it has but I don't know exactly how

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Speaker 2: because I don't have anything to compare it to you

434
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 2: because it is my life experience. And he's in high

435
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: school now, but he's still in these twenty four seven

436
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 2: full time care So I think it's made us closer

437
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,879
Speaker 2: as a family, and that's what's at the beginning. Essentially,

438
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 2: that's all I could really hope for, is that, or

439
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 2: more loving compassionate people, because it is so hard, especially

440
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 2: for my wife. I mean, I get to go off

441
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 2: on these trips and I go book tours and I

442
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 2: go to sets, and I'm filming things and doing interviews,

443
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 2: and she has to deal with that day in and

444
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: day out, and also raise two other kids so that

445
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,439
Speaker 2: their memories of childhood aren't solely about us taking care

446
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 2: of their brother. So we try to keep that in

447
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 2: mind and certainly extremely tough. But I think it's made

448
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 2: us more loving, compassionate people, and I think some of

449
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 2: that maybe compassion has found its way into the pages

450
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 2: of the book. I have a character who has a

451
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: son that has the same thing, a mutation of the

452
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,120
Speaker 2: two one gene, and that's Freddy Strain and the show

453
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 2: that we're filming right now, and actually came to cast

454
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 2: that part of the Sun and I said, you know,

455
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,439
Speaker 2: I don't think I should be involved in the casting

456
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: of that. I'm just too close to it because I

457
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 2: can remove myself when I'm looking at other things, because

458
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 2: I know we're making a TV show and make the

459
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 2: best show we possibly can. Things are going to change

460
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 2: from the book once again, First Blood, the book nineteen

461
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 2: seventy two, very different than the movie First Flood starring

462
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 2: some usis alone in the early eighties, but both fantastic.

463
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 2: So I kind of went into it with that mindset

464
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 2: knowing things were going to change and that being okay,

465
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 2: and I'm approaching it from the perspective of a student

466
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 2: so that I can learn. Casting that particular part, I

467
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 2: thought that I was a little too close to it,

468
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: so I didn't participate in that.

469
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 1: The writing and the overnight, I did that for many

470
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,199
Speaker 1: years when I was writing, particularly fiction. I find you

471
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 1: know Bill Bladdie, who was a friend of Happy Memory,

472
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: he used to write in the overnight, and he said,

473
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, he would start at like midnight and write

474
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: till four am. And Bill would say, it's the time

475
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: when you dream and that the world is quiet and

476
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: you can it's like your body is into the dream rhythm,

477
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: if you will, so you're dreaming with your eyes open

478
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: as you write. Do you ever get a sense of that.

479
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: I think there's something to that, because even if I

480
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 2: block off time during the day, there's still a little

481
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: bit of my brain, a little bit of bandwidth that's

482
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 2: wondering if anyone's trying to get in touch with me,

483
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: wondering if the kids are texting, wondering all these different things.

484
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 2: And at night, I know where everyone is, everyone else

485
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 2: is sleeping, and I know that I'm the only one up,

486
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 2: and there's something different about that in my faces knowing.

487
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: And I used to have that in the seal teams too,

488
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: even on training trips. I wouldn't be able to go

489
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: to bed until I knew that all the guys were back.

490
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: If we had like a day of eave or something

491
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 2: like that, I just had to make sure I knew

492
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: that everybody was back safe before I could go to bed.

493
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 2: And I guess it's similar here. I just know that

494
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 2: everyone and I'm not. I know, I'm not expecting anything

495
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 2: from New York right California because being here in Park City, Utah,

496
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: you get California late and you get New York early

497
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 2: and so emails and then in the text coming from

498
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 2: both sides. So it might not be the most ideal

499
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 2: place if you're in this this sort of a business,

500
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 2: when you're dealing with both coasts. Once again, it feels

501
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: very fortunate.

502
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, at two am you get very few emails.

503
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: It's a perfect time to do your work.

504
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 2: I've going to change that. I've got to change it

505
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: and just block things off and start working at let's

506
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: say seven am, and go to noon and just then

507
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 2: start the day. But because the all ninders are getting

508
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: a little harder, as I can it's hard Gray and

509
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: the beard here, they're getting a little harder than this

510
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: time than previous novels.

511
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 1: Rough when you have to work during the day, I mean,

512
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's hard to do the over school.

513
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 2: You're still getting up and getting the kids to school

514
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: and doing all the stuff. So it's not like you

515
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: can sleep in if you pull it all nine ers.

516
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, going, well, I want to go back. Brad Thorpe,

517
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: the author gets your book and he does an introduction

518
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: to Simon and Schuster. Chris Pratt embraces it and turns

519
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: it into this wildly successful series. Has his performance changed

520
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,959
Speaker 1: the way you approach the Race character now when you

521
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: go to write the ensuing sequels.

522
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: Yep, I think so, but not in the way that

523
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 2: one might think. And it would have started with the

524
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 2: four fifth book, because that's when we were filming. I

525
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: started writing that when we're filming the first season. But

526
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: I think more in terms of flashbacks and memories to

527
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 2: his father. I think that the first season, having those

528
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: conflations with his daughter and his wife and not knowing

529
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: what was real and what wasn't, being that unreliable narrator.

530
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: I think that. So it wasn't Chris Pratt specifically, because

531
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: I wanted Chris to play the role as soon as

532
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 2: I started writing it as a child in the eighties.

533
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: I wrote my first sentence and I thought, who should

534
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: play this character? And I thought, oh, you know what,

535
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 2: I want someone who hasn't done this before. And I

536
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: had no connection to Hollywood or publishing, but I thought,

537
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: you know, Chris Pratty. I just saw him. He was

538
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: in Parks and rec and so I'm a little little

539
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: old jolly fat, you know, kind of funny and all

540
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 2: that hilarious. But then I saw him in Zero Dark

541
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: thirty and that's right about the time I said the

542
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 2: first book, and I thought, I saw this change. I

543
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: saw him change physically, I saw a different performance, and

544
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: I thought, this is a guy who needs this for

545
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: his career. He needs this book for his career. And

546
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: of course after I started writing course, then we have

547
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: we have gardens, the galaxy and Jarassic and a list,

548
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: stardom and all the rest of it. So he took off.

549
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: But before he did, and I thought of Tom Hanks

550
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 2: in the eighties doing all comedies and then taking a

551
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 2: risk of Philadelphia in the early nineties and then really

552
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: being do whatever he wanted. And I thought, who's that

553
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: actor for this generation? I thought, that's Chris Pratt.

554
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, because I guess Ian Fleming had the same

555
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: experience with Sean Connor in the Later Adventures of Bond.

556
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 2: You didn't like him at first, and then he actually

557
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: ended up writing into the book a Scottish background. Future

558
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: books definitely his portrayal in the novels, but mine would

559
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: be more the flashbacks and the conflations and the memories

560
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: of his father and getting that wisdom and remembering it

561
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: and allowing that wisdom to now solve problems in present time,

562
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: and he is contempt So so that's how it's affected me,

563
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: I think more than anything else.

564
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: Okay, I want you to widen the aperture for a moment,

565
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: because you know, on this podcast I often look for

566
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: lessons that people can take away from your journey. What's

567
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: the best advice for a person who has devoted themselves

568
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: like you did, to a mission for a long time

569
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: and now they're feeling this this tug, maybe an internal

570
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: mandate to shift to another mission. How do you know

571
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: it's time to leave?

572
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: You know, he's gott to listen to that voice. There's

573
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: a reason that we're all here today. It's because our

574
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 2: ancestors listened to that little voice inside them. Also, they

575
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: were good at the fighting and the hunting, and that

576
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 2: allowed us to be here today. But they listened to

577
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: that little voice inside. They listened to that sixth sense.

578
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: I listened to the calling to test myself in the

579
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: military and then we into publishing. That was a call

580
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: I listened to it. I think there's something different about

581
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 2: a profession versus a career. We call it the career

582
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 2: the profession of arms, not the career of arms. For

583
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 2: a reason, I look at writing profession as well, and

584
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 2: as I was getting to and people are going to

585
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: all have transitions in life, whether it's a job, a divorce,

586
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 2: the death of a loved one, whatever it might be.

587
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: And I knew mine was coming up in the military,

588
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: so I got to think about it a little bit

589
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: ahead of time. And I knew my passion was writing.

590
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: I knew my mission was taking care of my family,

591
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: specifically our middle child with the special needs. How do

592
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: I combine those two to give me purpose? So if

593
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 2: I can articulate my passion and my passion and my mission,

594
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: that can combine give me purpose moving forward. And that's

595
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: going to be different for everyone, also being able to

596
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 2: articulate what is important to you going forward. So even

597
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: though I knew I wanted to write, I had a

598
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: couple you know, I had to have a backup plan.

599
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: But I also knew it was important to me, which

600
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: was time, being able to control my time because someone

601
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: else had done that for the previous twenty years, and

602
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 2: then financial freedom and that ties into our son as well.

603
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: So someone offered me an amazing job with crazy some

604
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: sort of compensation package. But I didn't control my schedule instant, No,

605
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: I don't have to waste any more time thinking about that.

606
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 2: I don't have to sit down and talk to my

607
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: wife and say, oh, this thing is in this other city.

608
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 2: Should we go out there? Should we look at schools?

609
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 2: How's it? No, I don't have to do that at all.

610
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: It's an instant no. And so being able to articulate that,

611
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: I think saves time and efficiencies and allows you to

612
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 2: focus your ergy that they need to be And mine

613
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: was on the book. And then the other thing I

614
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 2: tell people is never miss an opportunity to make somebody's day.

615
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: And I tell that to my kids because the reason

616
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: that we're here today actually is that a friend was

617
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: getting out of the seal teams. And I didn't know

618
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: him very well back then. Now we're your friends. And

619
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: I said, he was getting out. He's a great operator,

620
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: and I asked him to come to my office. We

621
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: sat down, I talked to him about getting out of

622
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 2: the military, introduced him to some people in the private sector,

623
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 2: and then I followed up with him. And then five

624
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 2: years later, in the fall of twenty seventeen, he calls

625
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 2: and asks if I remember him, and of course I do,

626
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: and he said, I always wanted to thank you what

627
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 2: you did for me in the military. And I couldn't

628
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: even remember that, and he said, you're the only person

629
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: that did that for me. I sincerely appreciate it. Always

630
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: wanted to thank you. And I said, no problem. How's

631
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: it going, He says, going great? But I heard you

632
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: wrote a book and I said, yeah, I have a book.

633
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: It's coming out in a few months. Here, I have

634
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: a galley copy I can send you. I learned what

635
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: a galley was like five minutes before that, and I'd

636
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: liked that, but I'd like to give it to a

637
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: friend of mine. And I said who's that and he

638
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: said Chris Pratt And I said, oh, it's very convenient

639
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: for me, and so send it to my friend Jared Shaw,

640
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 2: who is now a producer, executive producer, writer, actor, and

641
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 2: technical advisor on the TV show he plays Boozer, and

642
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: gave it Chris, and Chris called the next week and

643
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: won adoption it, so off we went to the races.

644
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: Incredible. Yeah, and you know that the military training, that

645
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: discipline of saying these are the non negotiables in my life.

646
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: This is the clearly articulated mission that we're on. Just

647
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: this that is something most people do don't frankly have

648
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: the discipline for in their life.

649
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's because of that calling. You got

650
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: to listen because too many people are going to tell

651
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: you you can't do something. And it doesn't even have

652
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: to be them telling you on social media, telling you

653
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: to your face. It can be a look. It can

654
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: be a look from a parent when a kid says

655
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: they want to be an astronaut at age seven and

656
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: you get this look like you grow out of it

657
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: type of a thing. Those things can really impact a

658
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: kid along the way. But I just never paid attention

659
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: to any of that, and I used it as fuel.

660
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: So I know how hard it is to go to buds.

661
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: People told me time and time again how difficult it

662
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: is to make it through seal training. And then people

663
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: told me how hard it is to get published. Do

664
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: I know how hard it is to get published? And

665
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: I kind of shrugging, like somebody did it? And so

666
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: I have this thing where I say, I, you know,

667
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: never tell me the odds. Never rather, never pay attention

668
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: to the odds.

669
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: Somebody, you know, I came across something, Jack, when you

670
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: made that transition from military life to your writing life,

671
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: you chose a logo that which is on your hat

672
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: the across access there. What's the significance of that logo?

673
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: I saw it at the UFC fight the other day

674
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: on the Williams.

675
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: It was crazy to see that. We were out there

676
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: with Taylor Kitch and Lamonica Garrett, both amazing guys were

677
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: sitting there at the front row. To see the cross

678
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: Tomawks in the UFC ring was wild. But yeah, so

679
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: Tomahawks have a history in the Marshall culture. I guess

680
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: you could say to have a totem of sorts have

681
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: been once again being a child of the eighties and

682
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: having this connection to Stevester Stallone's character Rambo, which and

683
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: his knife, which became a big thing in the eighties.

684
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: Knife and the bow and the arrows and all that stuff.

685
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: But the knife was the thing in the eighties that

686
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 2: really stuck with that character. And it's not in the book,

687
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: It's not in Morell's novel. It was something that Stallone

688
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,719
Speaker 2: brought in because he knew the importance of having some

689
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: sort of some totem, and so I thought, well, I

690
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: need something like that for my character. And I can't

691
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: just do another knife because that's been done time and

692
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: time again. And no one's done it as good as

693
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: well as Sevester Stallone did it with Rambo. And I thought, tomahawks.

694
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: I've always had a thing for tomahawk since I was

695
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: a kid, from throwing them, and I just love that,

696
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: you know, that First Nation type history stuff, and I

697
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: just I just had this connection. And guys did carry

698
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: them down range. Also there are are they were used

699
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: down range. And Daniel Winkler in Boone, North Carolina, he

700
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: did all the knives and the hatchets for Last of

701
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: the Mohicans the movie, and I got to know him

702
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: over the years. And so when I got out of

703
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: the military, when I had my retirement ceremony, I gave

704
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: my kids four gifts, and I gave them a Bible

705
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: and a not old nautical compass, an anti vintage nautical compass,

706
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: and I said, here these are things to These two

707
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: things are to guide you. Then I gave leather bound

708
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: edition of the Constitution of Bill of Rights and I said,

709
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: here's our natural rights. And then I gave them to

710
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: the tomahawk, and I said, and here's the means to

711
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: defend them. So I was in my office and I

712
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: had the kids because I couldn't want to leave them

713
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: in their rooms with them. They're so very young at

714
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: the time. So I had three tomahawks there, and I

715
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: was thinking about this logo and this totem for my character.

716
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: I want in my character to be a student of

717
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: history and of warfare, and so I wanted to give

718
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: him this tomahawk and has this connection to the seal teams.

719
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: A lot of guys carried Winkler hawks down range and

720
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: I was looking at them, and I put him on

721
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: the floor and I crossed them and then I took

722
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: a picture of it, and I sent it to Daniel Winkler,

723
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: and I said, do you mind if I use this

724
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: as my logo as I as I get out of

725
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: the military, And he said it would be an honor.

726
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: And we're dear friends to this day. And I think

727
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: I've sold a few for him. So that's that's fantastic,

728
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: and and so that's how the that's how the logo

729
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: came about.

730
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: And really I want to point out here because I

731
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: just watched these episodes of Dark Wolf last night. James

732
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: Reese in the opening episode of this show, which is

733
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: a prequel, not in the novels, I want to talk

734
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: about that in a minute, he gifts the other guys

735
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: in the Brotherhood a nautical compass from Reese's father books.

736
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm seeing the crossover here.

737
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: I have that. I think I have one of those

738
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: compasses right here. Oh yeah, right here, right right there.

739
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: So that's a welcome compass from from the Nam. We

740
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: usually wan on a Saiko watch. And I talk about

741
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: how Tom Reeves, the dad of James Rees in my

742
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: novel that comes out in October, set in nineteen sixty

743
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: eight Vietnam, how he I didn't say lose is, but

744
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: how he moves from the Seiko watch to the Rolex submariner,

745
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: which actually plays a role in future novels there. But yeah,

746
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: there's that scene around the campfire, and I think every

747
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: special operator, probably anybody that's ever sat around a campfire

748
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: telling stories, we'll be able to. And I use fire

749
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: very deliberately in my novels as well. Whether people know

750
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 2: it or not, it's in there because we have such

751
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: a connection to it, and there's such a connection to storytelling,

752
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: because of course we're told around the fire passing on

753
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: lessons from world warfare in the hunt really so that

754
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: those lessons would stay alive and the tribe could survive

755
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: and move forward. So sitting around a campfire and telling

756
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: those stories and James Rees gifting that and gifting one

757
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: of my favorite books, Once an Eagle by Anton Meyer,

758
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: which is on the shelf well somewhere all right over, Yes,

759
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: it's right over there.

760
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: I know. That's a big inspiration. And was it the center?

761
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: It is? There's a great in the lesson of that book. Really,

762
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: I mean, it's historical fiction and follows you guys from

763
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: before World War One up to Vietnam. It's fantastic if

764
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: anyone hasn't read it. But really the lesson of that

765
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: book is to see to your character and your reputation

766
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: will take care of itself. That's real, and it's such

767
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: a valuable lesson, especially today for kids with all these

768
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: outside influences coming in through the devices in their pockets.

769
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, it's really dangerous. The Terminalist Darkwolf just

770
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: premiered on Prime. As I mentioned, explain to people because

771
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: it's not based on a novel, it's about Ben Edwards background,

772
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: that's Taylor Kitch's character. How involved were you on this?

773
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, very involved in all of it. And usually in

774
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 2: Hollywood they want the author out of there as soon

775
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 2: as they can say, you ruined my vision. But Chris

776
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: wanted to me involved. Chris Pratt wanted to be involved,

777
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: and Antoine Fuqua, the director, wanted me involved, and we've

778
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: all got to be dear friends over all these years.

779
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: So for this one, we got to the premiere of

780
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 2: The Terminal List back in the summer of twenty twenty,

781
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: and the numbers came in and they'll never tell us

782
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: the exact numbers. Amazon won't, but they were off the charts.

783
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: They wanted more immediately, but Chris Pratts booked out for

784
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: three years. I mean, he's a you know, an A

785
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: List star. So he called and said, hey, what do

786
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: you think And I was already thinking about spinoffs. I

787
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: had a different one than I was actually writing up

788
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: at the time. But he calls and says, what do

789
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: you think about doing a spinoff on the Ben Edwards

790
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: character and explore how he gets to do the thing,

791
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 2: gets to a place where he can do the things

792
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 2: that he does in The Terminal List. And I thought, Chris,

793
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: that's a brilliant idea. Let's do that one. And he

794
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: called Taylor and Taylor was on board, and so immediately

795
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: we got into putting the story together and then pitching

796
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: it to Amazon and they wanted it, so that was

797
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: in by the end of October of twenty twenty two,

798
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: and then we so pretty fast and then we'll move

799
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: in to the twenty twenty three and then we have

800
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: a little slow down with a writer's strike that lasted

801
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 2: about seven months and an access strike on top of that,

802
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: and then we could still do some other things as

803
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: long as we weren't writings. Lots of writers weren't involved,

804
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 2: and so we had it. We're all set to film

805
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: in the Middle East, and then Israel happens on October seventh,

806
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: and we have to scramble and find a new place

807
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: to film because there are some security concerns, and so

808
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 2: we put us behind by a good solid year, the

809
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 2: writer's strike, actor strike, and then the war in Israel.

810
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: So it's so so we find ourselves now with the

811
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: prequel that just just dropped last night, first two nights ago,

812
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: the first three episodes, and it's already doing amazing. Feedback

813
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: is incredible, and hopefully we'll get another season or two

814
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: out of it. I see a three season arc there,

815
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: but we'll see what. We'll have to wait for the

816
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: numbers to come in and maybe we won't get anything,

817
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: but of it, who knows. Try to remain hopeful, but

818
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 2: also you know that this might be the last swing.

819
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: You never you never know.

820
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: I think you're going to get. I think you'll get

821
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: a few more seasons. It was really compelling. Look, I

822
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: had come back from a long trip and I started watching.

823
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I'm just going to watch a half hour.

824
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: I ended up watching two of the episodes. So it's

825
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: it's really compelling.

826
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: Thank you, And I think they just get better as

827
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: they go along. Also, and it moves from this military

828
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 2: thriller into this espionage thriller up in Europe, so change

829
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: in tone from the first season, and it's and Taylor

830
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: does such a good job. All the supporting cast does

831
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: an amazing job. And we really got to be like

832
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: a family over the last few years. It's and I

833
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 2: hear from the other actors and from people on set

834
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 2: all the time how that doesn't usually happen. And it's

835
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: a really special thing to work together. And people come

836
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: up to me on set and from here and makeup

837
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 2: and say, I've been involved in hundreds of these things,

838
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: and I've I've never felt this way on a set before.

839
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 1: I didn't even know Pratt was going to be in it.

840
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: I thought he was just, you know, gonna maybe make

841
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: a cameo and disappear. He's there through a chunk of it.

842
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: He's that first few episodes you saw, and then he

843
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: might be back for another one and won't spoil it.

844
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: But people can keep it to keep their eye out

845
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: and then and they might see somebody that looks like

846
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 2: me in one of the episodes. If they they don't blink,

847
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: If they don't.

848
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: Blink, okay, we'll keep an eagle eye out for that.

849
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: I'll get my scouts watching. The new book, Cry Havoc

850
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: is coming out in October. It's already getting ready for reviews. Now,

851
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: this is another prequel. This is the story of James

852
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: Reese's father in Vietnam. Ryan Stick wrote the other day

853
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: after reading the book. It's a scorching, immersive thriller that

854
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: proves yet again nobody writes with more intensity, authenticity, or

855
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: raw emotion than Jack Carr and firmly cements him as

856
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: not only the hottest author in the genre today, but

857
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: a worthy heir to Tom Clancy's thrown was that an aspiration?

858
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: You know, I just wanted to well, yes, because I

859
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: didn't read anybody obviously wasn't published because they're not published

860
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: growing up. And so what I saw on the top

861
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 2: of all those books was number one New York Times bestseller.

862
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: Whether that was a John Grisham or a Tomcy or

863
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: whoever else, that's what I saw. So that's why I

864
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: thought one did. When you are ten years old, eleven

865
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: years old, twelve years old, you just think, Okay, I'm

866
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: gonna write these books, and that's what I'll do, and

867
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: then they'll get adapted to film or television, and I'll

868
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 2: write more and we'll adapt those. And so that's just

869
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: what I thought it would be. It's not like I

870
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: targeted specifically. It's certainly there are lessons that I took

871
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: from them, like branching off into the nonfiction, which Tom

872
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: Plants he did in the early nineties. Get a there

873
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: it is right there.

874
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: Look at that Oh my goodness, which I'm halfway through

875
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: this is this is about Beirut, the Beayroot bombing of

876
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: the barracks, which is you know, kind of terrifying, and

877
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 3: I mean it reads like a thriller, but it's nonfiction.

878
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I saw Tom Flancy did that so in

879
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: my head even before in the nineties, I thought, well,

880
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 2: one day I'll do that. I will also when I'm

881
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: writing thrillers, and at some point it will be naturally

882
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: the natural time to branch off and explore nonfiction. I

883
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: explore so many different events from history in the pages

884
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 2: of my thrillers as it is, And so I did

885
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: take lessons from from Tom Flancy certainly, and and other

886
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: authors as well. But then I also thought, Okay, this

887
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: isn't the nineties, this is this is a new century,

888
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: a new dawn, and there's some other things I have

889
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: to do as well. But I can take some of

890
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,439
Speaker 2: those lessons and then apply them to a century type

891
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: of a model.

892
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: And Jack, you are a student of history, and I

893
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: want your thoughts on some contemporary events. Talk to me

894
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 1: about the Trump administration making the decision to bomb Iran

895
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: in the way they did with those tactical strikes. There

896
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: were some saying at the time this was going to spark,

897
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, a world war, it would cause mayhem in

898
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: the region. Your perspective on what happened there, man doesn't seem.

899
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: To have done that. And of course we'll I like

900
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 2: to look back on things after they've had a little

901
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 2: time to breathe. I don't jump on and comment on

902
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: things as they're happening or right after they happened. I

903
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: like to as you said, I like to think of

904
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: myself as a student and a student of history, so

905
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 2: I like to look back on them. They've had a

906
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 2: little time. But certainly we were never going to let

907
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: Iran get a nuclear weapon, and that doesn't matter who

908
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: was in office. Some way, they were not going to

909
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: be able to do that, whether it's an upstream type disruption,

910
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: which is actually something that the Dark Wolf explores, or

911
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: if it's something or more kinetic and immediate, like our

912
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: strikes were around over the summer. So, but any administration

913
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: I think would have taken some sort of action, and

914
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: we've done in the past, whether it's virus or an

915
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: upstream disruption, and now kinetically, these rallies have hit kinetically.

916
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: Obviously over the years, they've been doing a lot of

917
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 2: our work for us, taking out some of the scientists

918
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: and those involved in building up that program. So it's

919
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 2: really a part of our foreign policy.

920
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Your thoughts on the administration labeling those cartels in

921
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: Mexico as terrorist organizations? What happens now. I mean, give

922
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: me your perspective as a former seal.

923
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, but it's something we thought a

924
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: lot about before September eleventh, because we were all we

925
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: all get into the seal teams and we get issued

926
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: our beepers, and all of a sudden they'd go off,

927
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: and we'd go off and do the Save the Princess

928
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: op and then come back and time for beers. And

929
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: that was kind of what we thought. And that was

930
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: not how it was in the nineties. It was not

931
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: at all. You were just training in your job as

932
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: a seal or your job in the military is to

933
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: be prepared for war, prepared to go to war. So

934
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: that's what we did. So we did think a lot

935
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: about some contingency type things, like, hey, why why don't

936
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 2: they use us to do that? To disrupt the flow

937
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: of narcotics in the United States, Okay, it just seems

938
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: to be fairly free flowing. The DEDA has a lot

939
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,959
Speaker 2: on there, a lot on their plate there, Post Guard

940
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: has a lot on their plate. There. We could supplement somehow,

941
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: and then of course we never really could. But some

942
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 2: guys were involved in some little things here and there.

943
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: I think but I never was, and so we'll see.

944
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it'll be very interesting to see how it

945
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: plays out. And of course, you never want to make

946
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: a situation worse, and you want to keep those tabs

947
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: on things, just like a doctor. You never want to

948
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 2: make it worse. And so we're going to keep those

949
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 2: tabs on it and see what happens. But I certainly

950
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: think that we could be quite effective in taking out

951
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 2: some of these cartels with the lessons, hopefully the lesson

952
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: We're not very good in this country, I guess, as

953
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: people in taking the lessons of the plat past and

954
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: applying them going forward as wisdom. And we had twenty

955
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: years in Afghanistan, we never even did it there, had

956
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 2: a little less time than that in Iraq and then

957
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: had to go back and all of that. But we're

958
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 2: not really taking those lessons and applying that. But we

959
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: can take some of those lessons, apply them to this

960
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: and hope change quickly if if the course needs to

961
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: be corrected.

962
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you've seen these stories of these Chinese cells

963
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: here in the United States at colleges. There was that

964
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: police station. How widespread do you think this is? Active

965
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: Chinese cells here in the United States, or even Islamic

966
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: cells from from the Middle East.

967
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it would be fairly robust, meaning

968
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: we have essentially an open society, which those those societies don't,

969
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: but they can look at us, and what you want

970
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: would do is exploit weaknesses of your enemy. So weakness, Well,

971
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: maybe it's that we are such an open society, such

972
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: a giving society, such an understanding society, and and so

973
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: I would say that we are fairly infiltrated, particularly by

974
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: by the Chinese, at all sorts of different levels, public

975
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: and private. And there's a lot of overlap now these days,

976
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 2: of course when it comes to technology, there that there

977
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: is in front as well. I mean, I would be

978
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: shocked if we haven't been exploited and there weren't cells

979
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 2: in the United States, just because that's that's what I

980
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: would do.

981
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: Wow, what's the greatest threat you think we face as

982
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: a country? And and what do you make of this

983
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: church shooter situation in Minnesota?

984
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: So heartbreaking just that that, I mean I can hardly

985
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: even just look at it, which is why I get

986
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 2: asked to come on in comment about those things, and

987
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 2: I always say just no because it's just so hurtful,

988
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 2: just personally, you know, it's just so heartbreaking. But sorry

989
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: was the other question?

990
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: The other Quesse, Well, I'm with you, it's it's such

991
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: a depressing thing. I mean, we were talking for a

992
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: minute before we came on. When you get you know,

993
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: because of the nature of what I do, you get

994
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: dragged into this, and because it was a Catholic church,

995
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, you know, it affects the other half of

996
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: my life. You know, the show I have at e

997
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: WTN and you look at this and you wonder what

998
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: what is motivating this? But more importantly the human tragedy

999
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: here for these families and these babies you know who

1000
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: were who were taking, you know, their lives take and

1001
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: it's such an early age. But the other question was

1002
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: what's the greatest threat we face as a country in

1003
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: your estimation?

1004
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I think it comes from within.

1005
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: And depending on who you asked that question, if they're

1006
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: an expert in Iran, they're going to say I Ran.

1007
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: If they're an expert on China, they're going to say

1008
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 2: it's China. That's sort of. They're an expert in Russia,

1009
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: they're going to say it's Rusia type of a thing.

1010
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: So kind of the boogeyman in the closet is the

1011
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: one that you're the expert in, that you're the matter

1012
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: expert on. So but really I think it comes from

1013
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 2: from within. It's it's us. We're our own worst enemy.

1014
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: In many cases, Unfortunately, because we don't take those lessons

1015
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: of the past, we are consuming so much media that's

1016
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: shoved down our throats. Media is also controlling our thoughts

1017
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 2: and actions. So a lot of people don't even realize

1018
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: that this device in their pocket is doing that. It's

1019
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: not just advertising, it's controlling your thoughts and actions. So

1020
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: I think recognizing that is the is the first step,

1021
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 2: and then making decisions based in that voting in particular,

1022
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 2: but based on history and based on study and based

1023
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: on deep thought rather than some sort of an influencer

1024
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: or even worse, some tech company algorithm now even worse,

1025
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: a tech company algorithm AI that is is now morphing

1026
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 2: your thoughts and behaviors.

1027
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: And I think that's prob Well, that's what's so scared.

1028
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: You answered exactly what I thought you were going to say,

1029
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: it was a foreign threat. You answered exactly what I

1030
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: would have, which is, we are our own worst enemy.

1031
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: We are our own greatest threat because of this thing

1032
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: and that, you know, people say, well, I've been hearing this,

1033
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: and i've been seeing that, and I've been seeing that,

1034
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: and I want to tell them, how slow your role.

1035
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: The algorithm's just spitting back more of what you're already consuming.

1036
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 1: It's tailoring the thread to you. You don't realize it,

1037
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: but that's what's happening. So you're right. The repetition of

1038
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: these thoughts with no interruption is so dangerous, and it's

1039
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: reading our thoughts in some ways.

1040
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: Oh, it certainly is. It's listening right now. I'm sure

1041
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to get something out of this conversation is

1042
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 2: going to pop up on this phone right after we're off,

1043
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 2: But it's it's it's an interesting time to be alive.

1044
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: If I could go back to nineteen eighty, I think,

1045
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: and live it over nineteen eighty and nineteen ninety, I think.

1046
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 2: I think I do it in a heartbeat it was,

1047
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 2: and take your kids with you. Yeah, you know, just

1048
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: let's just go live back there. That'd be fantastic. My

1049
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: time machine now though, or the books that I read

1050
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: back then, the movies that I watched back then. I

1051
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: actually want to get a Dolore and park it in

1052
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 2: some sort of a little theater thing that I build,

1053
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: and then I can watch things on rca video disc

1054
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: of VHS data and just watch it through the windshields,

1055
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: sitting in the Delore. And that's my that's my.

1056
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: Back Your dream gives out. My son is a huge

1057
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: Back to the Future fan, so I think he'd share

1058
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: that dream with you. He wants to come over, and well.

1059
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: That's fantastic. There was a great novelization of it. I

1060
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: read it in the summer of nineteen eighty five and

1061
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: saw the movieization.

1062
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: It was fantastic, unbelievable. Okay, it's time for our Royal

1063
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 1: Grande questionnaire. I asked all of my guests a series

1064
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: of these questions. Okay, these are just quick, rapid response.

1065
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: You don't have to think deeply about it, and you're

1066
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: a deep thinker, so I don't want to drag you

1067
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: into that. Okay, who's the person you most admire?

1068
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 2: Jack, Oh, my goodness, you know it's my parents. But

1069
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 2: then also my grandfather, who I said I never knew

1070
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 2: and knew his photographs, so he's kind of my idealized hero,

1071
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: I guess you would say, because I never knew him,

1072
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 2: and I never knew him to have any faults, and

1073
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: I never knew him didn't have to grow old and

1074
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: all those things. So he's the idealized version of a hero.

1075
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: To me, who's the person you're most despised?

1076
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 2: Ooh geez, that is a great question, you know. It's

1077
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 2: it's in general it is rude people. I think, ah, yeah,

1078
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: more than that, mean rude people. And unfortunately these devices

1079
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: once again in the comment section, they yeah, they don't

1080
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: lend themselves to discourse.

1081
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 1: Civility stability is not high on me on the AI change.

1082
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: It's not the opposite, it's true. So yeah, rude people.

1083
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 2: I would say, in.

1084
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: General, okay, Jack, what is your best feature and your worst?

1085
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 2: Oh geez, best feature? Or maybe it's they might be

1086
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 2: the same. It might be just being so focused on

1087
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 2: something when it comes to the books or a project

1088
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: or whatever, that that becomes all consuming. I think because

1089
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: I want my readers. I don't want to waste their time,

1090
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be like that device and

1091
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: the doom scroll. I want someone if they're spending time

1092
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: with me, if they're trusting me at that time, they're

1093
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: never going to get back. Then I want to honor that,

1094
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 2: and I take that very seriously. So I think that's

1095
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: probably a good trait, but also a bad one at

1096
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: the same time, because there's other things happening in life

1097
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 2: and family and juggling all that and all the rest

1098
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: of it, so that that drive might be both.

1099
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're focus, You're so intensely focused. But it's necessary

1100
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,959
Speaker 1: to get these works out. It's part of the imaginative occupancy.

1101
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: You know, your mind can only hold so much. I

1102
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: totally get what do you fear? Jack?

1103
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: Ooh do I fear? This is? These are deeper questions

1104
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: than I was anticipating.

1105
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 1: Well, this is Royal Grande Way, this is how we roll.

1106
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 2: It's good. I love it. I love to talk to you.

1107
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 2: It's fantastic, you know. I mean, I'm fearful. Fearful for

1108
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: my kids. That's the first thing that pops to mind.

1109
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: It's about them, and I just worry about them. Like

1110
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 2: we just talked about the school shooting. Whether it's physical,

1111
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: whether it's not physical, it's emotional, it's being controlled by

1112
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: other people through those devices or having that impact them

1113
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 2: or relationships or whatever it might be going forward. It's

1114
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 2: just a different time and I'm glad I'm not growing

1115
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: up in that time. Yeah, so most fearful for Yeah,

1116
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 2: those my kids and then the future generation as well.

1117
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: I try to remain hopeful, especially I sit down with

1118
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: my wife at the end of the day and have

1119
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: that glass of wine and talk about things in the future,

1120
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: in the day and everything. We try to remain hopeful.

1121
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's very difficult.

1122
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: Well, you have to arm them for the reality around them,

1123
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: and it is in many ways. There's a veneer I

1124
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: think in some ways that we live in and there

1125
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: are dark realities for them as well that you have

1126
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: to prepare them for. And it's a lot darker than

1127
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: when we were growing up. It just is. Uh, the

1128
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: greatest virtue is what Jack.

1129
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: Carr, Oh, greatest virtue I know. I think it's that,

1130
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 2: uh you know, knowing it's it's that character. It's I

1131
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: don't know if that's an actual virtue or not, but

1132
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 2: we talked about character earlier and really that's that's foundational

1133
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 2: to everything else that you're that you're gonna do. So

1134
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: a lot of things that are involved in that, but

1135
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: but yeah, that that character and that's gonna that's gonna

1136
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: see you through or it's gonna you know, lead you lead,

1137
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 2: you astray, So yeah, to it, tend to it heart

1138
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 2: and that soul.

1139
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: What is your greatest regret?

1140
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 2: Oh, that is also a good question, And I think

1141
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: I thought through this before. I don't like tend to

1142
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: dwell on regrets. Yeah, because you can go back and

1143
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 2: I can pick out a nitpick a thousand different things.

1144
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 2: Of course all could so I couldn't say, oh, I

1145
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: have no regrets. Of course I'm gonna have a million

1146
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 2: regrets of varying degrees. I can go back to that

1147
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 2: first book and read a sentence and go, oh, I

1148
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 2: could have made that so bad character.

1149
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: And that's not a greatest regret. This is the greatest

1150
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 1: regret the.

1151
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: Ones that I'm thinking of, because it's you know, the

1152
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: the career path, trajectory, profession. So it is what I

1153
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 2: think about, you know, I do know, I do know

1154
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 2: what it is. And I would have spent more time

1155
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: with my grandmother. I wish I could spend has spent

1156
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 2: more time with her. I thought that she was going

1157
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: to live forever, and she was so important to me

1158
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 2: growing up. Both parents worked, and so I spent so

1159
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 2: much time with her, got to see so many great

1160
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: movies back in the eighties with her see Indiana Jones's

1161
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: Lost Her. And I was way too too young seeing

1162
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: those faces melt when I was like eight or something

1163
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: and maybe seven, yeah, seven, sol six, I don't know.

1164
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: I was too young, But going to all those movies

1165
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 2: with her close Enclounters are the Third Kind and war

1166
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 2: games and all that. So we used to plaid runner

1167
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 2: we saw. So I have such wonderful memories being with

1168
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: her watching the James Bond movies on HBO because she

1169
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 2: had HBO we didn't. Uh, so we got to got

1170
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 2: to do that. And I just thought, as a child

1171
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 2: of the depression, uh and then go work, living through

1172
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: a world war and then everything else afterward, that she

1173
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 2: was just gonna live forever, and uh she she didn't.

1174
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 2: So I wish I could spend one more dinner, one

1175
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: more dinner with her. And I think I did it.

1176
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: I mean I did it. I think I did a

1177
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 2: pretty good job. But I just do look back on

1178
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 2: that as a regret as I wish I could have.

1179
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: But what a gift, you know, grandparents, having great grandparents.

1180
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: I grew up both my grandparents in my life, and

1181
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: then my great grandmother lived with us so the impact

1182
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: of that, all of that, you know, cultural wisdom that

1183
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: they kind of in part without knowing it. You know,

1184
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: she introduced me to that but in Costello and you know,

1185
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Jack Benny Oh, I would have never

1186
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: known those people if it weren't for my great grandmother

1187
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: who loved them and kind of introduced me to it

1188
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: and knew them, you know, knew them a little bit.

1189
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: So it's kind of fascinating. What do you know that

1190
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: other people don't know?

1191
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: Jack, Oh, I don't know. I look at myself as

1192
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: a student, so I never thought of it in that way.

1193
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: I've never even considered that much. What do I know

1194
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: that most people don't. It's it's more than I just

1195
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: try to treat people with respect and be kind and

1196
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: be respectful, but also know when it's you have to

1197
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 2: know when it's time to not the old Rick Swayzy

1198
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: uh uh from Roadhouse, you know, be nice until it's

1199
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 2: time to not be nice. You know, there's there's some

1200
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: wisdom there. But yeah, for the for for the most part,

1201
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: just you know, it's not something that I know that

1202
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: most people don't, but it's just something that seems very

1203
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 2: very simple. Just treat others kind lend that helping hand,

1204
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 2: be a good citizen, be a good father, be a

1205
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 2: good husband, like those basics. Like if we can do

1206
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 2: the basics right, that really there's nothing you can't do.

1207
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

1208
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Well the one that I that I that

1209
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: I mentioned a minute ago. But it's my advice.

1210
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 1: So going back, that's not that's not allowed.

1211
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 2: Never ye never missed opportunity to make somebody's day. When

1212
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 2: it comes to to to U to writing, there's there's

1213
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: a couple though that come to my food specifically, and

1214
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 2: and one of them is the only difference between a

1215
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: published author and an unpublished author is that the published

1216
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: author never quit. And from somebody in the seventies. I

1217
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 2: think it comes from a woman author, uh, in the

1218
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 2: seventies sometime, but it's been repeated. It's been often repeated.

1219
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 2: But that's a that's a good one. And also, since

1220
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,439
Speaker 2: we're on writing, to write it for yourself, people today

1221
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 2: I think are they see the end result finished the

1222
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 2: novel or whatever they're working on. So whether it's a

1223
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 2: novel or just a project, it's making sure that project

1224
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: that product. In this case it's a book, is the

1225
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 2: best it can possibly be? Before any bandwidth is wasted

1226
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: on how do I find an agent? How do I

1227
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: find a publisher? Do I need a website? Do I

1228
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 2: need a social media presence? Do I have to have

1229
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 2: a podcast? Before you've done any of that, make the

1230
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: book as good as you can possibly make it, and

1231
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 2: then start thinking about those other things.

1232
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: What is your favorite book and the last one you read?

1233
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: Ah, well, the one on the shelf right here, Once

1234
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 2: an Eagle, But I have five five favorites. Once an

1235
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 2: Eagle by Anton Meyer, The Winds of War, Warned, Remembrance

1236
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 2: by Herman Woke, and then The Fountain Head and Atlas

1237
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 2: Shrugged by Iron Rand. Like those five right there would

1238
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: be my top fives. And the last one I just read.

1239
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 2: I'm working my way through Jean Lacay so in order

1240
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 2: now because I missed you along the way. Obviously I

1241
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,720
Speaker 2: was too young for some of them, and so I've

1242
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 2: read the kind of the standouts of each decade, but

1243
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 2: I haven't met them in order from the beginning. So

1244
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,479
Speaker 2: I just finished The Spy that Came Here from the Cold,

1245
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: and I just read I think it's in the other

1246
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 2: room now, But The Widow, which is coming out by

1247
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 2: John Grisham, comes out next month.

1248
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: I got a roll I am.

1249
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 2: I'm almost done with that so I about two or

1250
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 2: three chapters which i'll finish tonight in that book, and

1251
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 2: it's it's fantastic.

1252
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, final question, what happens when this is.

1253
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 2: Over, when this podcast is over?

1254
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: I leave that up to you to interpret.

1255
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so many levels of that one, right,

1256
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 2: and I think we just don't know. That's that's what

1257
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 2: faith is all about, is uh. I mean, because you

1258
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 2: have to trust. We don't really know, but you do

1259
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 2: know if you have faith. So I think that's the

1260
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: I mean, there's that you know people around you will

1261
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 2: well obviously your your friends and loved ones and family

1262
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 2: will miss you, miss you, but they'll go, they'll they'll

1263
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: they'll move on, hopefully better for having known you from

1264
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: the lessons that you've But it's that that partially above faith.

1265
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: We will leave it there, Jack Carr, I can't thank

1266
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: you enough for being here. And Jack's podcast Danger Close

1267
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: is available everywhere and Cry Havoc is out in October. Jack,

1268
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 1: thank you for being here.

1269
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, really appreciate all you do and

1270
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'll be seeing you on TV tonight or

1271
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 2: very soon.

1272
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: You bet, Thank you, my friend.

1273
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: Take care.

1274
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the hole. I love that Jack. Not only

1275
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: is he obviously a disciplined writer and one who knows

1276
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: how to spin a yarn and the books are incredible,

1277
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: but I love that idea that in a moment of transition,

1278
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: you have to clearly define not only your goal but

1279
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: your mission, what your mission is and what's not negotiable

1280
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: in that transition, and then you find your purpose. That

1281
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: is such a great I think tactic when you're negotiating

1282
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: a big transition, and those are those can be traumatic moments.

1283
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Speaker 1: So Jack Carr, thanks for the advice, and we will

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Speaker 1: continue to watch for more stories. I hope you'll come

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Speaker 1: back to a Royal Grande soon. Why live a dry,

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Speaker 1: constricted life when if you fill it with good things,

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Speaker 1: it can flow into a broad, thriving Arroyo Grande. Marimat Arroyo.

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Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe like this episode. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: diving in, and we'll see you next time. Arroyo Grande

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Speaker 1: is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, Divine Providence Studios,

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Speaker 1: and is available on the iHeartRadio, Apple, wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts,