1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Just a heads up. This episode contains adult language and 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: some violence, so take care while listening. We're almost like 3 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: cliff Bluff thing looking over like kind of like the 4 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: east end of the train yard, train yard up on 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: the hill. Let's see, there's the other train line. That's 6 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: where Amtrak comes in. It's a warm night in northern 7 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: California and I'm drinking beers on a hill with a 8 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: hobo named Mike while he waits to hop a train 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: to Kansas City. This train has been leaving since the 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: seventies um and it hauls mail alway to Chicago and 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: like Kansas City to um So the same train has 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: leaves pretty much every day, like at like four or 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: five in the morning. I've caught it three times. And 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: so here we are again. We're here pretty early, but 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: we have nothing else to do. Like everyone else in America, 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: I never paid much attention to the rails until someone 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: I love disappeared into them. And for the last fourteen years, 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: I've been in train yards with hoboes and talked to 19 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: hundreds of people like Mike. But the rails don't give 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: up their secrets easily. You might hear hobo and picture 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: an old bum in a box car. But there's more 22 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: to train hopping than that. Every night, in train yards 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: all over America, people wait in the shadows, crouched behind bushes, 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: scanning the tracks for freight cars to take them somewhere anywhere. 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: But here riders used alias is like Jobo the hobo. 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: Long haired Donnie and Tuck don't give a fuck to 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: make themselves untraceable, and there's a pretty good chance they're 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: lying to you when they tell you where they're going. 29 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: So getting to hang out with Mike Brodie, a guy 30 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: using his real name, was a big event, so we 31 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: can see it. I appreciate that impulse to escape. I've 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: thought about it every since she left, but I'm not 33 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: brave enough to do it. So Mike's agreed to let 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: me tag along and get a firsthand look at what 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: it's like to live on the rails. Tonight, Mike's getting 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: ready to hop out of town and he's looking for 37 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: a very specific kind of train car I want to 38 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: pick with wings. It's a bunch of train cars that 39 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: have truck chassis on top of them. So if you 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: look at trucks in the highways, you see these big, 41 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: long plastic wings or they're called skirts, but it's like 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: a modern day box car. You just get behind the 43 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: skirt or the wing and you can't be seen. So 44 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: you're under the trailer behind a wall. So pick with wings. 45 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: It's ideal. Do you sit up much? You could sit 46 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: up and lay down, but you can't stand, you know, 47 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: because you're under a truck truck trailer. Why would anyone decide, Oh, yeah, 48 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to do with the next twenty 49 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: four hours of my life. I'm gonna lay underneath the 50 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: truck chassis and piss into the wind. And that's how 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: I'm getting to Kansas City, even if I have no 52 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: reason to go there, but to Mike Brody and two 53 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: thousands of train hoppers, this is a great idea. Yeah, 54 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: so does your body get a little sore a little stick. Yeah, 55 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: you get really stiff and sore. It gets pretty old. 56 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: But every time the train stops or sometimes you just 57 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: hop down and stretch your legs. It's worth it because 58 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: you can just haul as cross country. It's kind of 59 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: shadowed under the car, so anyone looking for you can't 60 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: really see you because it's like bright outside. It's ideal. 61 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: We live our lives under surveillance, monitored data, harvested with algorithms, 62 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: scanning our phone calls, and yet here's a person flying 63 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: across the country undetected on a pig with wings. When 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: you go into a reporting assignment, you open a door, 65 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: and you better open your mind because you're going to 66 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: see a lot of things you didn't expect. And as 67 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: soon as I started looking into the railroads, I began 68 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: to see them as a secret city rumbling through all 69 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: of our lives. It's citizens are always on the move, 70 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: here and gone. They slide through the world on loco 71 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: would be so enormous. We rarely notice who hiding in 72 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: the cracks. But I'm getting way ahead of myself here. 73 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: I have to take you back to the very beginning, 74 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: the whole reason I ended up in this dangerous place. 75 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: It all started the day my daughter Ruby ran off 76 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: to hop trains. This is the story of what I 77 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: found when I followed Ruby into the city of the 78 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: rail I'm DEDELM Morton. Before I started sneaking into rail yards, 79 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: traveling to meet famous hoboes, tracking down rail cops. Before 80 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: I ever met Mike Brodie on that hillside, I was 81 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: a journalist. I supported my daughter Ruby and her brother 82 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: Ben working at newspapers and magazines. I'd raised them mostly 83 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: in Santa Monica, where I worked for People Magazine. But 84 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: I got tired of reporting on celebrities and we needed 85 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: a change. When I got a fat advance from my 86 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: first book, The Single Mom Effect, I moved back home 87 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: to Oakland and Triumph, happy to be where I grew 88 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: up and closer to Ben, who was in college at Berkeley. 89 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: When we moved, Ruby was a junior in high school, 90 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: and she was cool. But she's always been the coolest 91 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: person I knew. I tell my friends that even when 92 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: she was in elementary school, there was something rich and 93 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: deep going on behind her bright blue eyes, a hidden 94 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: aspect of her that always left you wanting more. When 95 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: we moved to Oakland, I rented the nicest apartment I've 96 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: ever had, a three bedroom with big windows overlooking the 97 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: gleaming blue of Lake Merritt. I had an open door policy. 98 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: Anyone could drop by the house for dinner, and I 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: was amazed by how quickly Ruby liked a social circle 100 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: in her new school. We started having guests the second 101 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: week of the semester. At first, her guests were school friends, 102 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: study buddies didn't take long for that to change. By spring, 103 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: she started a punk band with a friend, and soon 104 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: they were booking shows at Gilman at Berkeley Club, where 105 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: Green Day got its started. They began performing at shows 106 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: in backyards and local music festivals, and by the midpoint 107 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: of her senior year, her guests were older, scruffier, hungrier, 108 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: and a little feral, and some of them hopped trains. 109 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: Ruby's trained friends were great dinner guests, but entertaining as 110 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: they were, they left me with questions, ones that I'd 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: ask every writer I met. Why would you choose to 112 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: live this way? Why would you choose to get your 113 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: clue out of a dumpster? Why wouldn't choose to living 114 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: in the illegal place where you get arrested in the moment? 115 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: Because and we can. It goes way beyond that. I 116 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: think it's disgusting, But there's waste everywhere in that one 117 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: use it. I don't want to pay for it, I 118 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: don't want to have to work for it, and I 119 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: want to be free. That's Ruby's friend Aaron. Their description 120 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: of radical freedom intrigued me, but I also wanted to 121 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: hear stories of the beauty you can only see from 122 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: a train. Another friend, Momo, described it well. We were 123 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: traveling together. I went through a security where everybody we 124 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: encountered kept asking us why we're doing what we were doing. 125 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: Then we hoped to train and we were running through 126 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: Montana and you can see it. Every star in the sky. 127 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: Was like me and my boyfriend and our dogs ever 128 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: eating food and went jacking a beer and we're looking 129 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: at every single star in the sky and it's like 130 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: quiet and peaceful and open and beautiful. We're like, oh, 131 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: this is why we do it. I imagine myself alongside 132 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: Momo in that box car, waitless, and when my dinner 133 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: guests were telling train stories, I'd look across the table 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: will at Ruby, who was gazing at the lake. I 135 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: saw a young girl getting swept up in the same 136 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: romance I was. But she wasn't daydreaming. She was making plans. 137 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: But my journey into the City of the Rails was 138 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: still a long way off from those dinner table conversations. 139 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: The day my years long obsession with the rails really 140 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: begins as Ruby's high school graduation. Three weeks from graduation, 141 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: Ruby seems sullen and withdrawn in the car and the 142 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: way to school As we pulled up in front of 143 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: the entrance, she told me she was going to drop out. 144 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: High school meant nothing to her and she could always 145 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: get her g e d. I was having none of that. 146 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: I rose up in my full listen young lady fury 147 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: and told her, you're graduating if I have to drag 148 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: you across that stage. That seemed to work. We carried 149 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: on over the next three weeks. We stopped talking about 150 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: dropping out and so planning for graduation. Which was a 151 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: beautifully tailored sewing pattern for her graduation dress. At the 152 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: fabric store. We picked out a deep pink silk for it, 153 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: and Ruby got a great haircut. The whole time, she 154 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: was cheerful, cooperative, even a little excited. The big day 155 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: came and I was so proud Ruby's four years of 156 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: high school. While high schools she had been to six 157 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: different ones, had been rocky, but she was graduating in 158 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: a tiny academic setting. She thrived. Plus Ruby had a 159 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: scholarship to a great school, the California College of Arts. 160 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: The day was sunny and warm as we took our 161 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: seats in the courtyard of a church decorated with bunting 162 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: and flowers. The dozen graduates clustered together around the podium. 163 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: I waved to a bunch of Ruby's hobo friends sitting 164 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: in the back. They cleaned up nice, The men wore 165 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: for doors, and the women had on dresses. It was 166 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: great they'd come to celebrate with Ruby. The whole place 167 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: was buzzing as graduate as came to the podium to 168 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: thank their parents in the school. When Ruby approached the mic, 169 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: I saw she had her ukulelean hand. She never told 170 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: me she was going to sing, say no Montica, saying 171 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: Nomtica to turn fourteen as well be drinking. As I 172 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: looked around at the other parents as Ruby sang, so 173 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: many of them had tears in their eyes, just as 174 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: everyone in my family did. Look what you've done. Ruby 175 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: had done it. Whatever our weaknesses as a family, we 176 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: worked hard together to get to this moment. It all 177 00:10:51,600 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: to anyone because of God made a fool? What a 178 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: fool of everyone? What was this song about? Well? Ruby 179 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: got hugs from her friends. The family wandered to the 180 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: reception hall. We got our flutes of champagne and attacked 181 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: the appetizer spread. We stood eating at a tall table, 182 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: waiting for Ruby to join us. It seemed like she 183 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: was taking an awfully long time. Yeah, asked Ben to 184 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: look for her. He came back incredulous Ruby was gone. 185 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: What did you mean gone? Then had looked in the 186 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: church around the courtyard. Ruby wasn't even in the parking lot. 187 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: So I called her, But I got her voicemail pretty 188 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: rude that she left graduation without saying goodbye. Maybe she 189 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: was at a friend's house and wasn't picking up her phone. 190 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: Boy was she going to hear about it when she 191 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: got home. The next day, I realized she wasn't coming home. 192 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: Maybe she really was gone and I had no idea 193 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: where she was. That whole time we were sewing her 194 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: dress and talking about what her college dorman would look like, 195 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: she was planning her escape on graduation day. She'd made 196 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: a real drop the mic departure. She had made a 197 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: fool of everyone, and I was first on that list. 198 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: M we we had made a fool of everyone. While 199 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: we were getting ready for her graduation. She was planning 200 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: to ditch us. She even wrote a song about it. 201 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: Then she stepped from the podium at her high school 202 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: graduation straight to the road with no clues about where 203 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: she was headed. I bet she didn't see it that way. 204 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: She just turned eighteen, and she didn't have to answer 205 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: to in of us anymore. But where was she? Where 206 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: had she run off to? I kept trying her phone. 207 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: Ruby wasn't answering, so I spent a few days trying 208 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: to get ahold of her friends. But the information I 209 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: got was hardly solid. Sam said Ruby was road tripping east. 210 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: Others said she was hitching north to Roseville, a town 211 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: with a major train yard a few hours away. My 212 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: money was on Roseville, so I began my search like 213 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: I was launching an investigation. I tacked a map of 214 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: the United States on my office wall and got colored 215 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: pushpins to charge her travels, and I kept a notebook 216 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: by the phone. Running away like she did was a 217 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: hostile act, but she'd call sooner or later. She would 218 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: miss her mom. But whatever I did to prepare, I 219 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: couldn't just sit there. The clues to where she was, 220 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: who she was with, and how she was surviving definitely 221 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: were not in my house. I knew I had to 222 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: get up from the dining room table and out into 223 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: the train yard to find train riders who would talk 224 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: to me. It was the only way to find out more. 225 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: The other thing that was bugging me was who is she? 226 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: Of all the things to do after graduation, she chose trains? 227 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: What was the allure? And my first phone call with 228 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: Mike Brodie before we ended up on that hillside looking 229 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: for a pig with wings, I asked him that question. 230 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: I was asking everyone, why live this way? It's about youth. 231 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: It's it's just absurd that that young people in this country, 232 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: like we live in a country with so much wealth 233 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: and privilege, and like essentially choose to live so subsistently 234 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: and like in poverty and explore the country that way 235 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: and sunk up your life sometimes and ride trains to 236 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: do that is it's fascinating. There is a self righteousness 237 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: where a lot of it ties into radical ideologies, and 238 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: people are just like it's like a protest, you know, 239 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: people riding trains out of protest. They're protesting, you know, 240 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: this American whale. There's a lot of a lot of 241 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: lost young people who think like rotting trains as the 242 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: answer did Ruby Phil lost? Has she been faking it? 243 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: Around our dinner table. Mike had been writing for years 244 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: chronicling the lives of young people who took to the rails, 245 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: his fellow travelers. If there was such a thing as 246 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: a well known hobo, Mike was it. I first came 247 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: across Mike in an art exhibit in San Francisco. The 248 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: gallery featured photos Mike had taken over a decade of 249 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: hopping trains. There was a book to a period of 250 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: juvenile prosperity, and I bought a copy. I poured over 251 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: it in the days after Ruby left. His work helped 252 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: me visualize the risks. She was taking images of young 253 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: people in box cars, sleeping on filthy mattresses, eating from 254 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: garbage dumps, or getting arrested, but also in motion, running 255 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: alongside a moving train, trying to hop on. After all 256 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: that time on the rails, Mike knew a lot. He 257 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: has an insider's college, but he saw that life for 258 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: what it was. Maybe Mike could help me see this 259 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: world clearly. And when he and I spoke, Mike put 260 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: Ruby and me in context. There were other parents like me, 261 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: So many people. They have assets and and parents that 262 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: love them, and homes, safe homes, you know, but they 263 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: don't care. They don't want the society. They don't want 264 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: this like they go off and find it on their own. 265 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: Mike is familiar with his impulse. He's lived many lives 266 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: on and off the rails. He's been married and owned 267 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: a home. He's even had a railroad job working as 268 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: a diesel mechanic, and when all that broke apart, Mike 269 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: started traveling again. Mike was on the road when we spoke, 270 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: and he said he'd swing by for a visit. This 271 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: was my chance to get more of my questions answered. 272 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: So I was eager and I was lucky Mike would 273 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: be passing by. Will be on me because I'll be 274 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: coming from you, kay it with all my ship. Tuesday 275 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: should work. It might end up being later in the day. 276 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: If so, we need to spend time together those to 277 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: kind of state your place that needs me or something. Okay, 278 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: but you know, I don't want to be like Hi 279 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: for an hour deep, you know, or I'll come back later. 280 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: So I'm really living where now. Mike and I had 281 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: a plan, but as any hobo will tell you, sh 282 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: it happens. Trains surprise you. So I didn't see him 283 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: that Tuesday, or the Tuesday after that, or the Tuesday 284 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: after that. In fact, I didn't see him for another 285 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: five months. But when he did finally arrive. He spent 286 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: two days with me. Mike answered every question I had, 287 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: and he let me tag along with him and a 288 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: friend as they hopped back out of town. We climbed 289 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: up to the top of the hill, with San Francisco 290 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: glittering in the distance across the bay. Mike pulled out 291 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: some beers from his pack and handed them around as 292 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: we settled in on the hillside. We should just Mike's 293 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: book made me think hopping a train was a frenzy. 294 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: One of his photos was of a guy trying to 295 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: catch up to a train, running with a heavy pack 296 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: and carrying a guitar. Often the distance behind him was 297 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: another guy really hoffing it. But on the hill, it's peaceful. 298 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: We're just relaxing while Mike waits for a pig with wings, 299 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: And despite being a season hobo, he doesn't look how 300 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: you might expect. No faded car hearts and thrift store boots, 301 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: and he certainly isn't dressed like someone about to hide 302 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: under a truck trailer. Describe your adfits so that we know, 303 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: because we all Gucci clothes and I'm about to hop 304 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: freight trains. These are like these Gucci dress boots that 305 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: are black leather with zippers on the side. These are 306 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: like wool pants with like zippers on the front, more 307 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: of like a fashionable detail. Got Gucci socks, it was 308 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: a Gucci coat, which really isn't that practical or warm? 309 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: A silk shirt that I have buttoned up my glasses 310 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: are Gucci. It's pretty much. I went all out. I 311 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: got as many Gucci items as I possibly could. Why. 312 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, really. I I sick of being dirty 313 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: and filthy, and I had some money, and I got divorced, 314 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: and maybe I was going through some midlife fashion crisis, 315 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm gonna buy Gucci clothes and 316 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: help trains. I know, but like, don't you think that 317 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,479 Speaker 1: a lot of train hoppers Mann be like, who the 318 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: fuck is this guy? But for the most part, people 319 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: have been into it. Which people did other hobos take 320 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: a look at Mike's three thousand dollar designer where and 321 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: think there's a guy who knows how to ride. I mean, 322 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: it's absurd to writing Gucci. It's uncomfortable. He's going to freeze. 323 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: But Mike says one of the things he likes about 324 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: train riding is how much he suffers. It makes you 325 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: really appreciate these other more mundane, simple aspects of life, 326 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: using a clean bathroom or sleeping in a nice hotel, 327 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: or just you know, having a nice more meal, or 328 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: it just helps you appreciate just the simple things in life. 329 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: When you're like stuck on this massive freight train going 330 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: through the elements, you know, as exciting it as it 331 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: as it is to catch that train that you want 332 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: or you think you want, it's just as exciting. You 333 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: get the funk off of it because you've been on 334 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: too long, so get for like twel of twenty four hours. 335 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: You're like, okay, we're there yet, I'm done. I'm ready 336 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: to get back to civilization. And by that time you're 337 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: usually out of water and food and you're just like, 338 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: I want to bathe. A couple of months ago, I 339 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: went from Reno, Tamarillo via Cheyenne, Wyoming, and I did 340 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: not know, but it was I went through a snowstorm. 341 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: When you have like windshield like whipping over your whole 342 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 1: sleeping bag for hours and hours and hours, like all 343 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: your body heat starts to go away and you start 344 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: like I had my boots on, I had all my gear, 345 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: my insulated coveralls, all my clothes, my boots, thick socks, 346 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: everything in the sleeping bag. And if your body is 347 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: stagnant for long enough on metal, it'll just suck all 348 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: that energy out of you. But that's like how it is. Uh, 349 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: I'd kind of just like to suffer. Okay, here's another way. 350 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: This world doesn't sound like Ruby in my eighteen years 351 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: with her, she is not someone who likes to suffer. 352 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: She likes it cozy, or so I thought, because suffering 353 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: was part of it. In this misery, you're definitely living 354 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: in the moment, very aware of every breath you take. 355 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: The risks that train hoppers take are what make the 356 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: rides so special. It costs a lot to get into 357 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: the city of the rails. That's why for riders, being 358 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: called a hobo isn't a slur or a synonym for homeless. 359 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: It's an honor. I think with anything you do, trades 360 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: or activities, you've got to kind of like do it 361 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: really hard for like ten years before you call yourself 362 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: like a carpenter or a mechanic or something the sounds 363 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: a master train. Yeah, it's the same thing with train riding. 364 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't consider say, oh, I'm a hobo or 365 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: a train rider or whatever, or a tramp. Until I 366 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: did it for a long time, so like it was 367 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: probably a year or two ago. I was like, oh 368 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: I am this, and that's okay. I went through all 369 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: these experiences, thousands of thousands of miles riding trains and 370 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: met all these people, did all this stuff. It's okay 371 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: to throw a label there and say, oh, I am this. 372 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: With Mike, I saw my idea of hobo's there's nothing 373 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: but drunks and criminals was wrong. The people RUBY was 374 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: traveling with chose this life. They had a culture and 375 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: a code of honor. I never expected. I thought that 376 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,479 Speaker 1: this world would be brutal. It had to be, if 377 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: you're throwing your body on a train, But it was 378 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: more than that. It was also tender and reflective, a 379 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: different kind of cozy. Maybe it was the frogs. You know, 380 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: I hear the kind of sound in most of northern California, 381 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: like the cities where I lived, You never hear this 382 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: like chirping of the frogs. What's cool about waiting for trains? 383 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes what passes the time is just like kind of 384 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: learning to be your own best friend, or just being 385 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: amused by simple things like listening to frogs, listening to 386 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: horns off in the distance, just appreciating those simple little pieces. 387 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: Mike's been working on being his own best friends since 388 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: he took to the rails at seventeen. He was a 389 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: board teenager in Pensacola, Florida, who came alive when he 390 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: started riding with a polaroid camera friend gave him. The 391 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: camera wasn't the point at first. He just needed to 392 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: get the hell out of Pensacola. That was just a board. 393 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: Like a board, young person, I knew the train would 394 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: take me somewhere that was more interesting than like rotting 395 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: in Pensacol, Florida, with no direction, with no guidance of 396 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: no you know, no interest, no skill. I had no 397 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: real skills, no trade skills. No dad, you're like, oh 398 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: you should you know, work on cars. Here's how you've 399 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: changed to fix a head gasket. You know who, dude, 400 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: go do this. There was no direction, so I had 401 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: to direct myself in A train was a symbol of that, like, oh, 402 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: it's going there over there, to that town and maybe 403 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: there'll be something there, even though there's not really ever 404 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: anything anywhere. You're just kind of going around in circles, 405 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: But Ruby had a direction when I thought worked for her. 406 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: Did she think our school was just going around in circles? 407 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: Or maybe she just didn't want to listen to anyone? 408 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: Was the Ruby who fled different than the way I 409 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: knew her? What did I know about this person who 410 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: had spent her whole life with me? When Mike talked 411 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: about how suffering was part of it, I had to 412 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: know more, even if it was going to scare the 413 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: hell out of me. I think most Americans agree that 414 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: it's our fundamental right, protected in the Constitution, to say, 415 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm sick of this ship. I've acted 416 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: on those words of time or two myself. But to 417 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: leave out right, leave it all behind, to let everyone 418 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: else figure out why you changed your number, that takes guts. 419 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: So maybe it was inevitable that as I continued digging 420 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: for information about Ruby's world, I found myself reading about 421 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: hobos throughout history. I wanted to understand what she could 422 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: have been thinking, and I started to see she had company. 423 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: There's a long line of Americans who have used the 424 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: rails to escape the catastrophe of their lives. But catastrophe 425 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: and the railroads go hand in hand. So much of 426 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: our language for disasters has its roots in railroading, like 427 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: getting off track, a runaway train, or a project getting derailed. 428 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: The word for forcing something through without concern for others 429 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: is railroaded. My name is Richard White, and I'm historian. 430 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: I'm now an emeritus historian. I taught at Stanford University, 431 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,719 Speaker 1: among other places, and I've concentrated on the American West. 432 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: He's being modest. Richard White won the MacArthur Genius Award 433 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: for his lifetime of original research into the forces that 434 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: shaped the American West. He used that grant money to 435 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: write a definitive history of the rails. White called his 436 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: book Railroaded, and that title attracted me in those weeks 437 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: after Ruby left, when I wanted to know everything I 438 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: could about this world she entered. Railroad had opened my 439 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: eyes to the real history of the rails. Most histories 440 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: tell the building of the railroads as a heroic tale, 441 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: men of vision and actions, haiming the West as they 442 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: tie the continent together with steel the railroad. It is 443 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: about the scoundrels and liars who built the rails, the 444 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: corrupt corporate culture they created, and how they got one 445 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,239 Speaker 1: over on the American people. This history is nothing like 446 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: the history we were taught in school. I found that 447 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: out from my very first question when I sat down 448 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: to interview Richard White. I think it's hard for modern 449 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: people to imagine what the West was like. You know, 450 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: it was just a vast open space, was it not? No, 451 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: it's not a vast open space. It was Indian country, 452 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: as it was called at the top. All the West 453 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: is inhabited. It is inhabited by Native people. So the 454 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: land is being given away. Did I actually belonged to 455 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: the United States. There's not been treaties for much of 456 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: this land. The United States is subsidizing railroads by giving 457 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: away other people's country. Then they will have treaties with 458 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: the Indians, which will get titled to the land to 459 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: give to the railroads. But the United States is giving 460 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: away Indian country um to private corporations. And this sets 461 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: up what it makes the railroads into the one of 462 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,719 Speaker 1: the greatest tools for eradicating Native lands in the Western 463 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: United States. It really has never covered as that story 464 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: very much, is it. No, No, it's it's usually covered 465 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: as the country's empty. The railroad populates that it doesn't 466 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: populated replaces one population with another. What railroaded men in 467 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds was that the railroads laid track independent 468 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: of the consequences over sacred native lands, across private property, 469 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: without asking anyone's permission. Richard White estimates that if you 470 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: combined all the land the United States gave to the 471 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: railroads would be the size of Alaska. Everywhere you look 472 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: in history, you find people getting railroad in with a 473 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: little regulation from the government. The railroads got to play 474 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: by their own rules. They were willing to allow your 475 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: competitor lower rates than they were willing to allow you, 476 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: you were out of business. The railroads picked winners and losers, 477 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: and Americans nineteenth century hated it. The other thing Americans 478 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: hated was the huge influence railroads had on politicians take 479 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: lobbying invented by the railroads during the Civil War. In 480 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, Lincoln signed the Transcontinental Railway Act. And 481 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: why would you do something like that when the country 482 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: was bankrupt. Most people don't know that Lincoln was a 483 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: railroad lawyer before he was a president, and he saw 484 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: the railroads as a way to unite the country from 485 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: coast to coast, so stuffs into the Railway Act and 486 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: many bills thereafter where massive construction subsidies, government backed bonds, 487 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: and miles and miles of free land. The railroads were 488 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: booming after the war ended, everybody wanted their own railroad. 489 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: And that's where the lobbyists come in. This is the 490 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: time you have to imagine the federal government is incredibly small. 491 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: Congressmen do not have staff, They very rarely have even 492 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: much office space. So a lot of their work is 493 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: going to be done in public. That's what lobbyists do 494 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: for their profit. Where did this public work happen? Wherever 495 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: the congressmen were When they traveled to Washington, d C. 496 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: They all stayed to the same hotel, the Willard. And 497 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: they're called lobbyists because they hang around the lobby. To 498 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: hang around the lobby of the Willard Hotel, and they 499 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: hang around the lobby in Congress. So the railroads sent 500 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: their men to the Willard Hotel carrying literal sacks of cash. 501 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: Their goal was to persuade Congressmen to pass the bills 502 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,719 Speaker 1: that would subsidize railroad construction. You would see tons of 503 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: letters from congressmen, senators, even Supreme Court justices asking for 504 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: free passes on railroad so they could go back and forth. 505 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: The free pass became a kind of currency. They were 506 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: congressmen who would give receipts for bribes. It goes without 507 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: saying when you have to bribe people to offer them 508 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: a hundred two hundred five dollars for a vote, that 509 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: means the systems breaking down. Seems similarly, the system is 510 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: just getting started. And this kind of corruption wasn't limited 511 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: to congressional bribes. Railroad company needs created a lot of 512 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: the financial dodges and shell games that corporations employed to 513 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,479 Speaker 1: this day. So railroads show you how it's done. They 514 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: show you how to raise capital, set up management, operate 515 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: things on a very very large scale, and also they 516 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: show you how to cheat. That system created by the 517 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: railroads is still shaping our day to day. When that 518 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: chooses winners and losers, it gives most of us very 519 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: few rewards for showing up and doing as we're told. 520 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: Mostly it favors those who cheat. With a system this corrupt, 521 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: how can you ever think your hard work will be rewarded. 522 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: It's rigged against you unapologetically. If you look at America 523 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: this way, it's easy to understand why Mike Brodie says, 524 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: you're just kind of going around in circles. Listening to 525 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: him again, I felt the pointlessness of every day striving. 526 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: That's why this story of a young man in Texas 527 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: stuck with me, the story of a guy who went 528 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: on the rails because he got promoted when he quit 529 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: junior college. Pizza Hut hired him as a delivery guy. 530 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: When they are for him an assistant manager's job. His 531 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: family started celebrating he was on his way bright horizons. 532 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: They bought him a used car and rented him his 533 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: own place, But he didn't spend many nights at that 534 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: apartment and abandoned his car near the rail yard. The 535 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: idea of working his way up the chain at Pizza 536 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: Hut put him on the next train to New Orleans. 537 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: I think I'm starting to get it. There's got to 538 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: be something better than this. And when you get the 539 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: urge to go, you just gotta go. And like Ruby, 540 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: there's no time to say goodbye. Momo, who told me 541 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: about seeing all the stars in the sky from a 542 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: box car, described how determined she was to get out 543 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: of town when the woman who was going to teach 544 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: her how to ride trains didn't show. Mamma decided she'd 545 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: give it a try on her own, and the train 546 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: stops that was going on it, which is stupid. As 547 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: I read a suicide, it's like that, it's like containers, 548 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: but it's a big hole in the middle. Writing Suicide 549 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: his Home both speak for riding an empty frame that 550 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: normally holds a shipping container, and there's just like a 551 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: little corner that you can like stand off. Most of 552 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: those frames have floors, but when they don't, you're riding 553 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: in the corner of a big rectangle with tracks flying 554 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: by a few feet underneath. Riders sit with their backs 555 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: at the corner, left leg on one beam, right lego 556 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: and the other open track rushing below them. The entire 557 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: ride that seemed like the craziest fucking thing in the world. 558 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: Plus in the middle of this mayhem, MoMA took a nap, 559 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: or at least on the corner for my waiting me 560 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: and like hook my arm through the thing, and I 561 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: was like, and then I woke up him. I see 562 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: that was all flapping, and I was like, what if 563 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: MoMA had moved in her sleep, she would have fallen 564 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: into the tracks. Riding the rails was insane. It was violent, unpredictable, 565 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: and dangerous beyond belief. So what dr Ruby here? It 566 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: couldn't be Mike's need to suffer. It certainly isn't thrilled 567 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: seeking she would hate writing suicide. It had to be 568 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: something else. Bruby's fan Aaron showed me what that could be. 569 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: When everything is like a group decision, whether you're with 570 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: like two people that you don't know very well, or 571 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: like even someone even knowing for years, you will get 572 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: to know so much better when everything you're doing is 573 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: like for survival. I mean even just like a snowstorm, 574 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: like trying to keep each other alive, like going through 575 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: things like that. Those make you like bonded for life. 576 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: That's like absolute freedom, and that's like what we're all 577 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: striving for. Is nobody telling us what to do. We 578 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: could go where she wanted, whenever she wanted, with whomever 579 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: came along, and they'd figure out together where to sleep, 580 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: what to eat, and where to go next. This kind 581 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: of freedom and friendship could be what was drawing Ruby in. 582 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: I guess it was not all your mind to judge, 583 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: but I still wanted to find out. Mike showed me 584 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: being a hubbo was an actual goal to be truly free. 585 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: But Hubba was like, MoMA, are paying the price for 586 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: that freedom, paying the price for not being the pizza 587 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: hike manager. After her first ride, Mama ended up in 588 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: San Diego, where sub marines didn't like the way she 589 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: and her friends looked. I was on the pay phone 590 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: talking to my grandma and these days came out there 591 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: like you can't sit there, and public bench on the 592 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: sidewalk as they can, you know, and they're like, no, 593 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: get up, hippy, and they put me an armbar with 594 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: one guy ond me on the ground like face down. 595 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: He was choking me in This other dude had my 596 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: arm twisted, he was trying to break it with his hand, 597 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: and I was just like so pist off. I was 598 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: like spitting on his face. Somebody else like dropped their 599 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: knee and it broke my humorous and shattered my elbow 600 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,439 Speaker 1: head of surgery. That was my introduction to the road. 601 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: It was like everything's gonna suck and everybody hates you. 602 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: But after getting out of the hospital with her arm 603 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: held together with pins, she and I right back on 604 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: the rails, I mean pressed on because I was into it. 605 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: I was into it at that point. I was like, cool, 606 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: we can do whatever we want whenever we want. And 607 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: people would always be like, why are you doing this? 608 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: Why are you doing what you're doing? Then? And I'm like, 609 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: so I don't have to do what you do. And 610 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I do what I do, so I 611 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: don't have to do what you do. Okay, don't do 612 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: what I do. I don't want to do it anymore either. 613 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: All those years of showing up on time, taking late 614 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: meetings for what a lifetime of striving left me flat broke. 615 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: So why was I trying to make Ruby do what 616 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: I had done? Because it was what I knew. But 617 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: that was about to change. After Ruby left. I was 618 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: no longer such a good citizen. I didn't see the 619 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: point when my daughter's life was at risk. I spent 620 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,479 Speaker 1: more and more of my time researching trains and reading 621 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: books about hoboes. It wasn't spending as much time as 622 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: I showed writing The Single Mom Effect. When I blew 623 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: past the deadline, I had already spent most of my advance. 624 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: I was putting everything on credit cards and watching my 625 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: debt grow, hearing stories of Momo writing suicide and Mike 626 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: Brodie suffering through a snowstorm made me understand that none 627 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: of the normal parenting moves would get Ruby home. I 628 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: couldn't take away her allowance or ground her. I couldn't 629 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: even get her on the phone. All I could do 630 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: was hope for a call and listen for clues about 631 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: where she was. I got the sense that I was 632 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: in a race against time. Anything could happen out there. 633 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: The longer Ruby was gone, the bigger the chance was 634 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: she'd never make it back. But it wasn't just about 635 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: where she was or what she faced, but who she was. 636 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: That's what kept me searching to find the person who 637 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: lived with me all her life and yet remained hidden 638 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: from me. This search for her led me to the 639 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: gang infested streets of cold in California, squats in New Orleans, 640 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: even mountains along the Mexican border, and along the way. 641 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: I started rethinking everything I thought I knew about being 642 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: a mom, about our shared history, and about the quote 643 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: unquote American dream. I heard Ruby might have gone to Rooseville, 644 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: which meant I knew exactly where I was going next. 645 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: Roosevelt is a real working yard where trains come in 646 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: and out every hour. That's where the dangers are and 647 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: that's what I wanted to see. It's it's dangerous if 648 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: you're just worn around and you can't hear what's going on, 649 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: you have nothing that you can go on. It's just 650 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: completely out of the blues. Things are just gonna happen. 651 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: Little did I know that when I tried to follow Ruby, 652 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: I'd become entangled in the story of the Rails. But 653 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: the fun thing about the railroad is that there's a 654 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of like the nation that we 655 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: have that a lot of people don't. You know. Cameras 656 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: aren't going to see Interneyre, drones aren't going to see 657 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: interneth here, and you can quickly jump onto a train 658 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 1: that sight. There's all this brotherhood talk, and it's easily 659 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: to get wrapped up into this whole fucking cowboy movie 660 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: that you're a part of. Every night. That's next time 661 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 1: on City of the Rails, sand Martika said them picka 662 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: to turn fourteen. That's while we drinking gasoline. Then this 663 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: Malapo sit on the beach is just turning. The glue 664 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: came out with the brand new drug and that sat 665 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: it to pull the plug and there said, look what 666 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: you've done. City of the Rails is hosted by me 667 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: tol Morton and developed in partnership between Flip Turns Studios 668 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: and I Heeart Podcasts. At I Heart, our team is 669 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,479 Speaker 1: executive producer and showrunner Julian Weller, Senior producer and editing 670 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 1: master Abouza far and our excellent producers Emily Maronov, Sina 671 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: Ozaki and Zoey Denkla, who survived hours and hours coaching 672 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: me how to speak, with production support from Marci de Pina. 673 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: Original music every episode by Aaron Kaufman. Our theme music 674 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: is Wayfaring Stranger, performed by Profane Sass thanks to Scott 675 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 1: Machad at Flail Records. Our logo is by Lucy Quingtonia 676 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: and uses a photograph by Mike Brody. Mike, if you're listening, 677 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: text or email me your phone nument doesn't work anymore. 678 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: Our executive producer at Flip turn is Mark Healey, and 679 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: at I Heeart thanks to Nikki Etur and Bethan Machalooso. 680 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: We'll be back with Roseville, California on the City of 681 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 1: the Rails.