WEBVTT - Let's Talk About Guns 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:11.639 Uh, that was the introduction, I did it, Sophie. Sophie 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.440 is saying, that's an acceptable introduction. You know what podcast 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:16.200 this is. You clicked on it, so I don't need 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:17.680 to tell you the title. I don't need to say 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.160 who we are. I'm just going to dive right into 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.000 the fucking episode. No, I'm not. This is It Could 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.920 Happen Here, a podcast about things falling apart and uh 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.680 and what to maybe do to to arrest that and 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.919 do something better in its place, and uh, you know, 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.519 folks who are are regular listeners who listened to the 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.760 original scripted episodes of It Could Happen Here, the first 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.360 fifteen episodes, which I certainly recommend to everybody. Know that 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.760 one area in which I kind of separate from a 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.600 lot of particularly more liberal folks and even some folks 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.279 on the left is an embrace of the fact that 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.480 firearms are sometimes necessary tools, especially in times of collapse 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.640 when things get bad. Um. Now that said, we're also 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:04.760 not uh kind of gun culture people here. We try not, to, 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.399 for one thing, recommend that everybody necessarily pick up a gun. 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.600 There's a lot of people, perfectly nice people you shouldn't 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.280 have them who don't need to have them, you know, 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.720 if you're dealing with suicidal ideation or whatever. We're not. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:17.640 The point is, we try to be very careful about 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:22.319 how we we talk about firearms as a potentially useful, 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.200 even potentially necessary tool in the times that we're in. 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.160 And today, since we're a few weeks into this, we've 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.800 covered producing food, We've covered some medical stuff. We've talked 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.280 about uh, community organizing, and a number of other things 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.400 that I think our priorities for most people before, you know, 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.520 getting strapped. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.840 getting strapped. And my guest today is Paul. Paul, do 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:46.959 you want to kind of introduce your background in brief 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.720 so people know why why you're on here, Sure, Robert H. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.920 I was in the Marine Corps and Infantry, and after 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:59.080 that I went to security consulting and then to the 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.920 Federal Protector of Service and finally the A T F 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:09.799 some of our funnest agencies. Yeah, all my favorite organizations there. Well, 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:11.679 they're better than the the what is it, the f 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.280 d A. Yeah, they beat the f d A. I 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.480 mean in terms of body count, they're certainly better than 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:21.480 the f d A. And what what do you do now, 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.520 Paul that you're you're you're out of that line of work. Uh, well, 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.480 I do two things. I got a day job at 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:32.160 disney World and then uh, the side gig is we 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:38.240 run a explosives and machine guns supply company, also body armor, 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.080 a handful of other things. But that's the big thing 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:47.080 is destructive devices. Yeah, and uh, you've you've got I 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.680 think experience that a lot of people, particularly on this 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.880 side of the political I'll lack you know. One of 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.600 the one of the downsides of kind of rejecting the 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.480 federal government in the military and all its forms, is 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.760 that there's a lot of people who may accept the 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.520 validity of being armed and don't really have much in 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.920 the way of practical training. And firearms are tools that 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.360 to use most efficausly do require training and practice. You 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.360 can't just um you can pick them up and be dangerous, 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.720 but not in a way that is particularly protective to 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:20.840 you in your community. Oh yeah, Um, so I wanted 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.040 to talk about kind of recommendations and and everything. We 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.600 talk about nothing. We're not talking in the context of 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.880 forming a militia or in the context of you know, 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.240 showing up with guns to to yell at people at 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.360 a protest. If that's the thing you're choosing to do, 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.160 that's a whole different ball game. We're talking about, um, 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.640 kind of responsibly arming yourself in your community in a 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.600 way that is not going to get you in legal trouble. Um, 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.840 it is also not going to endanger them. Because one 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.880 of the things you have to accept about firearms is that, um, 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.680 there's a risk you know, related to owning a firearm. Um. 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.720 Not just the risk that like you know, suicide risk 0:03:57.880 --> 0:03:59.360 raises if you have a gun in the house, but 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.560 just if you don't use them properly. Even carrying a gun. 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.560 You know, it's not unheard of for people carrying guns 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.840 to have those weapons taken from them and used against them. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.920 It happens to police, and it happens to armed citizens. 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.000 So it's it's a matter of um, you know. I 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.479 think when you accept that you're going to be armed, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.080 there's something incumbent upon you to understand the risks of 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:23.760 being armed. And I guess that's kind of where I 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:25.200 want to start, Like, what are some of the big 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:29.560 pitfalls you see people uh fall into, Like um that 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.479 I think traditionally, training is supposed to help allay to 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:39.279 some degree. Uh well probably number one is uh grandpa's 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.480 gun in the closet that's been there for forty years unfired, 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.760 and somebody just picks it up and throw some ammo 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.080 in it to go huna deer, and you know it's 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.120 got a barrel obstruction or something that just blows up, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:56.000 you know. Um. But number two and and the one 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.719 that can be mitigated by training rather than just general 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.599 uh not being stupid, because it's kind of stupid to 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.280 pick something up that's really old and just try to 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:10.360 shoot it. Is um, not shooting yourself, and when you 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.040 do go out to the range, not shooting other people, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:18.560 and then not shooting people in your own home. Um, 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.400 you know you don't as much as you might want to, say, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.280 defend your own home, do you want to shoot your 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.760 wife when she comes home at two thirty in the morning, uh, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.039 after work and wakes you up. And there are ways 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.680 to mitigate that and and it's really easy and it's 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.280 really cheap. So yeah, let's let's let's start with some 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.480 of those. Just if you're if you're new too, if 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.760 you've decided I need a gun for whatever reason, you 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.200 purchase a gun. Um, you know, I think the most 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.799 basic first things are in terms of like actually making 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.160 that relatively safe. Is number one, knowing which which kind 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.560 of firearm to purchase, and number two, and these are 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.000 not in order of importance, these are both very important. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.239 Number two is securing that weapon properly, as opposed to 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.240 just having it laying loose in the house, which is 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.480 never the best place. The best way to store a firearm, 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:15.559 is it. Um, Yeah, I mean I own a number 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:19.320 of personal firearms. Um. You know, I'm in my office 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.039 right now where I got a locked door where nobody 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:23.640 can get in, and I got a gun safe back 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:29.200 behind the monitors. Um. And you know I'm comfortable with that. 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.479 But if if it was in a place where kids 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:33.920 could get at it, you don't want to just stuff 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.040 it in, uh, in a sock in the closet, which 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.680 is actually what my mom did when I was a kid. Yeah, 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.360 I mean safe storage and I mean really being able 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.240 to identify your target is probably the biggest preventer of 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.039 like inter family accident, because I know, you know, we 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.200 do talk about safe storage kids and all that. But um, 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.960 back to the wife coming home. If you just put 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.839 a light on your gun, hundred dollar light, you can 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:03.680 look at the thing that you're shooting in the middle 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.720 of the night and uh, not shoot someone you don't 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.360 want to shoot. Yeah. I would go so far as 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.880 to say that, like if you've got a home defense 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.800 weapon without a light on it, Um, you don't fully 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:20.240 have a home defense weapon. No, no, yeah, you know, Um, 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.880 it's gonna be useless in roughly half of the situation. 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.440 And statistically, like if you're looking at when people are 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.480 actually tend to be endangered in their own homes, the 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.720 vast majority of the situations in which you might be 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:35.320 in danger. Um. When it comes to weapons selection, uh, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.640 this is another area where like if you go on 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:39.560 maybe one of the worst places in the world to 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.240 have this discussion as Twitter, because everybody has the opinions 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.840 on Twitter. Um. I tend to say because I think 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.520 most people when they're looking for a first gun, if 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.120 they're if they're committed, just like thinking of personal defense, 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:52.880 they're going to go for like a lock or something. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.320 And I think unless you're planning on carrying a gun, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.520 And you can correct me if you disagree here, but 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.560 I tend to think a handgun again, unless you're intending 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.880 on carrying a concealed weapon is the last thing that 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:08.360 you should own as a gun owner. Um. I got 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:13.880 a mixed opinion on that. I mean, yeah, I think that, uh, 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:20.160 the handiness of a handgun can outweigh some of the issues. 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.560 I know you guys dealt with fires up there, we 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:27.360 have hurricanes. Um, being able to stick a handgun into 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.480 a backpack you know it can go a long way, 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.640 or being ab um, keep keep it on you in 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:40.880 your car because here were depend on state laws. Everything 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.480 you say depends on state laws. Yeah, there are states 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.360 where you can. Yeah. Yeah. If you're in California and 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.880 you're in one of the counties that it doesn't issue 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.600 a concealed carry of license like l A, it's really 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.720 hard to get one. From what I understand, you got 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.320 to get to San Berndino if you want to get 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.839 one of those. Yeah, I mean, first off, like tooth, 0:08:58.120 --> 0:08:59.920 I got a short list of guns, and like two 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.280 thirds of the list illegal in California. They're they're not 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:08.720 on roster. But for what's most usable against our most handy, 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:13.400 it's probably a handgun. But if you're expecting a threat 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:18.400 more than like thirty feet away, have something other than 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.920 a handgun. Handguns they suck at hurting people, they suck 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.080 at killing people. They're they're ineffective. They're hard to use. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.440 I mean, say thirty ft away. But if you're not 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.240 training regularly hitting something reliably in a stressful situation at 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:36.280 thirty with a hand it can be difficult. It's not easy. Yeah, um, 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.520 it's not easy, And I tend to recommend number one. 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.360 There are some options, like even if you're sticking with 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.679 a handgun, there are different kind of um like uh 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.280 options for that. Like I I'm a big advocate of 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:51.360 pistol caliber carbines, which is essentially the size of a 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.280 small rifle, so you can fit them easily in a backpack. 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.720 Every backpack I've owned, you can. You can stick something 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.679 like um like a Sazy scorpion in without much difficulty. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.640 And because they're so When you're talking about what makes 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.680 a weapon easier to use, Number one of the number 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.840 one things is size. So the longer the barrel, the 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.240 more accurate it is. The heavier the gun, the less 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.360 recoil is a problem, the easier it is to use it. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.040 Range um and a pistol caliber carbine, you know, you 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.720 stick a light on that. That's a really good home 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:23.760 defense weapon. Oh absolutely, yeah, I mean especially uh people 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.200 will argue about the different types of magazines. But if 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.640 you buy one that takes a glock magazine and you 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.720 have a glock, you can build a full little load 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.760 out that's just takes all the same magazines. One is 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.480 more accurate. One is a handgun. UM, and you know, 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.400 all the same AMMO. You're not having to uh figure 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.920 out and read a bunch on on what kind of 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.600 AMMO you need and stuff like that. You just buy 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.320 one and it works for everything. Yeah, and when when 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:53.920 you're talking about AMMO, I think one of the most 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.360 important things, like especially if you're worried about a survival situation, 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.160 is availability UM, which is the nice thing about like 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.640 what we call the NATO calibers, and the NATO calibers 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.880 are nine millimeter seven six two by fifty one better 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.720 known as three O eight your grandpa's hunting rifle seven 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.080 UM or it's thirty six but whatever UM and then 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.960 five five six slash two to three and those are 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.440 the rounds that's like five six is the standard. That's 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.560 what's in your bog standard a r UM and so 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:28.240 almost no matter what happens, UM, including you know ammo crunches. 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.880 You will be able to find some amounts of those 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.600 calibers generally, and you're going to find a box of bullets. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:37.160 They might not even own a gun and they got 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.040 a boxing nine millimeter. Yeah, everybody's got nine millionaire and UM, 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.880 so yeah, I think that the basics of like, um, 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:47.679 what to get if you're looking at kind of just 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.199 a basic defensive arm. Um, you know how to store 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.760 it safely? You know those kind of questions are important. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.360 Um when it comes to training. Uh, what are some 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.600 of in your opinion, like the mistake that you see 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.199 people make when it comes to kind of of practicing 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.880 training with their weapon. Um, going to an n R 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.800 a basic like four hour class and thinking that you 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.800 are a god. Um, they're there are people who have 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.920 spent um five days a week going to classes and 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.360 doing training because there's practice and then there's training. Training 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.040 is where someone teaches you something. Uh, practices where you 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.200 go with what you're already taught. Right. Um, So there 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.720 there are people that spend all that time and there's 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.959 still not the best in the world. Um, there are 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.200 people who do a ton of practice. Jerry Micklock. You know, 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:42.920 I don't know if you've ever seen him shoot, but 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.760 he's uh, he's like the fastest gun in the world 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.840 or something like that. Um, his videos are crazy. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.360 I mean he'll he'll outshoot a full auto gunyah with 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.680 with revolvers and it's just like, you know, it's just 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.240 absolutely mind blowing. Um. But know he's like he's like 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.120 he's like Michael Jordan or something. You know, you just 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:08.839 get people who have almost it's just not natural ability. Um, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.480 certainly married with a practicing but yeah, continue, if if 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.840 you had a fight a gunfight, which they really don't 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.360 happen that much, but if you had a gun fight 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.600 between um, a guy with a high point C nine 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:28.240 who had the cheapest, cheapest quote reliable handguns on the 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.720 face there. If if you had a guy with that 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.320 that had had paid five hundred dollars for a training 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.240 class over weekend and still went in uh, went to 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.640 the shooting range every week and practiced and um or 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.520 not even every week, just every month, and then did 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.520 dry fire drills once a month in his garage or whatever. 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.840 Versus a guy who went out and bought a Wilson 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:53.160 Combat three thousand dollar nineteen eleven but had only taken 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.200 the n R A class. I will bet on the 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.600 guy with the eight or the C nine all day long. Um, 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.760 even if he's only got one bullet, you know, yeah, 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.400 don't don't care. He'll win. And often like for all 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.280 of it, for all of the guys you see, you know, 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.040 within all of their tactical gear and whatnot, and their 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.440 spare mag's taking a three hundred rounds out. If you 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.440 actually look at most defensive shootings, Um, it's very common, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.840 and I think like like three to five rounds, three 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.960 to five rounds generally closer than thirty feet, sometimes closer 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.320 than like ten or fifteen. It sits in my pocket 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:35.120 most of the time. It's nineteen. It's so tiny. Um, 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.840 it has more bullets than I'll ever need to gunfight. Probably. 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.040 I think I want to pivot from this point to um. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.520 We started this by it introducing that you you spent 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.880 some time in the A t F, spent some time 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.080 in the FPS. I haven't had any personal interactions the 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.160 A t F, but I have met some FPS guys. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.240 You know, I'm kind of curious, especially as because I 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.080 came in contact with you through your through your Twitter, 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:14.600 where you're you're very my personal Twitter. Yeah, and you're 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.320 you're quite politically active now, um, in a way that 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.000 I think is surprising people for someone with your background. 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.720 Are you comfortable with kind of tracing sort of the 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.480 broad strokes of your journey there, because I think that's instructive, 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.440 um for folks oh at FPS specifically, well, just kind 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.360 of what brought you from there to hear? Oh? Um, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:39.200 So I got kind of uh, oh man, what what's 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.200 what's the word for when you just get uh? I 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.440 don't know. I just I got to a point I 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.240 showed up for for work at four thirty in the morning, 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:54.840 and I was literally shuffling through some some paperwork and 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.760 and was getting ready to file a warrant and just 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:02.080 kind of realized I didn't think that it needed to happen, 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.840 And you know, I talked to my supervising agent about it, 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:11.480 and um, was kind of told too bad, And and 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.280 I put in for some vacation time and ended up 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.720 putting in a resignation while I was on vacation. I 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.040 mean that that's the gist of how I became not 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.400 a cop. Yeah, And UM, I'm wondering, kind of what 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.840 do you think is there anything that kind of I 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.480 don't know what looks different to you now as you've 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:36.280 kind of left that behind. Was it like sort of um, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.960 I'm guessing there's like a period like a goldfish, you know, 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.920 in a new bowl of of acclamation to to life 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.960 outside of being a cop um? Like what what were 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:47.800 the first kind of things that started to shift in 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.240 your perspective when you left that that thought space. I'll 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:57.000 tell you what, watching or reading whatever, an article or 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.600 a YouTube video, especially now that body cams are more 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:07.640 and more are prevalent. It is watching something, reading the 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.280 the press release, and going But that's that's not what happened. 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.800 Like I just watched it and and and going from 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.919 being able to justify it in your own mind and 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.960 literally argue with people and be a hundred percent convinced 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:25.560 like that was a good shoot. Um Castillo? What it was? 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.719 Philandro Castillo? Yeah, oh god? And he was. Man, if 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.840 you've if you've gotten lost track of this shooting in 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.280 between all the others. Filando was a black man, a 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.040 legal gun owner with a legal concealed carry permit, who 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.280 was pulled over with his girlfriend and child in a 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.720 car and hands on the wheel, told the officer he 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.960 had a gun uh, and got shot. Um, and it 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.760 did the thing you're supposed to do. Although now actually 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.240 since then you will get like some states will and 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.280 some training classes will recommend if it's not legally required 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.000 and you're carrying a gun, don't say anything for that reason. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:05.919 But I mean, yeah, the command to not reach for 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.840 the gun to being shot multiple times in the chest 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.639 was like under two seconds. Um, So I mean, I 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:15.640 mean the decision was already made as soon as as 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.560 soon as he gave the command, the decision was made. 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.680 Here's what that brings me to in terms of a 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.480 question that's relevant to the topic of community self defensive potential, 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.760 community armed self defense, because that's not that is a 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.720 that is a cop problem, but that's not just a 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.840 cop problem. And what happened everybody problem in the chop 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.680 in the chairs in Seattle, the the autonomous zone is 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.160 evidence of that. You had this situation where people, after 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.840 nights and nights of mostly inaccurate warnings about proud boys 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.360 coming to attack, got amped up, they had guns, some 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.400 kids drove by in a car and they fucking shot 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.160 him to death. Um. And it is the same it's 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.320 the same mental thing happening. You don't have to have 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.439 a badge for that that mindset to infect, especially when 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.719 you're carrying a gun. Um, how do you, in your opinion, 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.679 fight back against that? Be fucking chill? Uh? You know, 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:16.440 like like honestly, Um, if you were a teenager, which 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.640 we grew up in almost the same place you're from, plain, Oh, 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:23.919 I'm from Capel, so I would have argued with you 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.479 about them being the same place when I was. But 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.840 they're the same place. Yeah, they're absolutely the same place. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.760 Yeah one has uh one has uh woot dot com 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.240 and the other one has raytheon so you know, and 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:45.840 a bunch of hospitals. Um. But uh, you and I 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.280 grew up in the same time, same place, same types 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:52.160 of schools. How many times did you see in like 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.640 high school or even middle school, just a guy hit 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.560 on a girl and then the girl's boyfriend comes over 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.480 and just start fighting him, like like like the guy 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.840 had no reason to know, he didn't know he was 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:11.280 doing anything wrong. Um. And I'm not suggesting, I'm sorry. 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:16.200 What I'm pointing out is that, Um, it's almost ingrained 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:22.200 in us at a societal level to react violently to 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:27.280 maintain like our personal position. And if that means that 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:33.240 I'm in my neighborhood and I don't recognize someone, it 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.600 may seem like violence is the right way to go. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.240 That's actually what what you're doing when like what's it 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.720 called Karen ng you know where you call somebody the 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:45.920 black kid yelled, uh selling water bottles or whatever. UM. 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:47.879 I know that was one in New York where the 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.000 police came and harassed you know, some like twelve year 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.359 old black kids because they were selling water bottles. Um. 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:57.399 It's the same thing. I mean, you know in that case, 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.840 you're not personally doing the violence, You're just calling somebody 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.840 else to do it for you. UM. Because you know, 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.720 the police are kind of violence, violence, of monopoly and 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:11.520 all that. Yeah. Yeah, And that's U. One of the 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.640 most I think important things about that is the idea 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:19.359 of UM violence is like when you when you're willing 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.800 to accept violence to kind of maintain your your your 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.800 social position or something. UM. And I think that has 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:26.960 a huge amount to do with with the kind of 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.680 violence you see UM at protests with like we've had 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.680 you know, protests quote unquote security here in Portland, people 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.520 kind of declaring themselves security and what does that mean 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.520 shooting other kids with guns for graffiti, Like, but it is, 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.680 it is a matter for it's they're not doing it 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.360 to protect anybody. They're doing it because they've declared themselves security. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.760 Somebody doesn't listen to what they say and their ego 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:50.800 is hurt. It's the same thing that again cops do. 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.080 It's this, it's a human mindset. It's not just a 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:58.160 a cop mindset. And um, I think you when you're 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.399 talking about like, I think there's a couple of things. 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:02.199 Number One, if you're going to be armed and if 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.440 you're going to be armed in the community self defense role, 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.080 one of the things you have to accept is that 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.919 like you're not as a person who is armed and 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:11.960 cares about the defense of your community, you're not a 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.159 separate thing from them. I think that's one of the 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.359 areas where which policing goes wrong. May view yourselves as separate. Yeah, 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:23.080 and I know you guys have a big problem with that. Um, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.480 we do here too. I live in a metro and 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:32.160 our metro police, like them, don't even live in the county. Yeah, 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:35.080 they all go the same here. Yeah. Yeah, they don't 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.480 even not just the city, they don't live in the 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.760 whole county. Um. And that's despite they get a living 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:44.080 allowance if they'll live in the city, and there's a 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.760 bunch of if they live in the city, they get 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.840 a take home car. There's a bunch of incentives to 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.600