WEBVTT - Expert Analysis (Bonus) 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.080 Hey listeners, just a quick note to let you know 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:05.520 that this week we are taking a break from our 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:09.440 regular release schedule to bring you a special bonus episode. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.480 Be sure to tune in next week when we return 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.960 with episode five. If you miss past episodes, you can 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:23.520 binge them ad free on Tenderfoot Plus. Hey listeners, Jessica here, 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.560 be sure to check out new episodes of undetermined every 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.880 Tuesday for free wherever you get your podcasts. For early 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:37.080 and ad free listening, check out Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.760 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.480 those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.040 and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.640 All individuals described or mentioned in the podcast should be 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.760 considered innocent until found guilty in a court of law. 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:04.480 This podcast contains subject matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.720 which may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:37.200 is advised. Hey everybody, Jessica here. In this special bonus episode, 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.720 we're continuing our behind the scenes analysis of Jessica Easterly 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.040 Derning's case. Now that we're a few episodes in we're 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.120 starting to hear more about some of the events that 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.320 happened before and after Jessica's death. In this episode, we 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.400 want to provide some insider perspective on what it looks 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.360 like to investigate a case like this, as well as 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.680 offer an overview of what we know about how NPD's 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.760 investmenttigation has been going up to this point in the podcast. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.280 Joining me here to offer an experience perspective on investigations 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:13.520 is of course, our own former detective Todd Macoma's Hey Todd. 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.560 Hey Jessica, thanks for having me so. 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.880 Todd, There's one thing that I want to know right 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.800 off the bat before we go deep into this investigation. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.920 Tell me what it's like to investigate a case like 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:31.600 this for a true crime podcast as opposed to what 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.720 it was like investigating it as a police detective. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:36.760 I really like it. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.720 I wondered initially what it was going to be like 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.880 compared to being a police detective. But what I'm finding 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:49.880 is now I get to focus one hundred percent of 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:55.440 my energy, time and effort on just one case, one 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.160 investigation right now. When you're a police detective, you have 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.840 a stack of other cases that compete with the one 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.880 you're trying to devote your efforts to and there's all 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.040 the other things that come with working for a government agency, 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.960 the bureaucracy of it, you training, the interrupts things. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:12.040 All the time that you have to attend. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.919 You might have to stop a criminal investigation because they 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:20.520 need you to do an applicant background investigation. So all 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.320 those things I really really like. I like that we 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.200 can go so in depth and just focus our efforts 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:28.800 in one direction. 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:33.680 And something that I have always had to deal with 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:40.120 being a journalist is not having necessarily access to everything 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.160 that has to do with the case. And so that's 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.960 kind of different for you. And maybe one of the 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.920 drawbacks in this type of investigation, Oh. 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.680 Man, it tries to be bonkers not to have all 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.200 the tools and resources that I had while I was 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.320 a police detective, you know, being able to just quickly 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.360 run on someone's driver's record, their criminal history, you know, 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.280 just to call another police department and them openly share 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.360 any information they have on someone that you're looking into. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.560 All those things are hampering and they do handcuff. 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:15.800 Us a bit. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.400 But again it's it's a new challenge also, right, so 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:24.400 to have to navigate the challenges of that is stimulating. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:29.720 I find I also think it forces us to get 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:34.960 creative and take our investigation to a different level and 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.920 then bring it back to the whole storytelling aspect of this, right, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.839 you know, focusing on the victim's story. And also I 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.440 have found as a journalist we can sometimes get people 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:47.680 to talk that may not want to talk to law enforcement. 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:52.120 Those interviews it's a different dynamic because You're right, it 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.280 can be scary talking to the police. So we're just 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.080 talking to people that are potential witnesses, or that we 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.080 know are witnesses, or we're just trying to gather that 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.240 initial round of information. A lot of times we can 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.039 get them to open up more so than when I 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.080 walk in with a badge on my belt and a 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.440 gun on my hip. And I've learned a lot from 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.000 you in that regard, because you've been interviewing people under 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.400 these circumstances your entire career, and I'm really enjoying that 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.359 aspect as well. And listen, I now compare this to 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.760 because I like to use my experience, I'm really going 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.239 to kick out of using my experience to be able 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.839 to analyze a police investigation now, So I very much 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.640 find myself in a position now like Troy Aikman, you 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.400 know who used to play in the NFL and now 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:45.479 he's going to armchair quarterback instead of quarterback and be 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:46.800 an analyst. 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:46.799 Of the game. 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.880 Or Tony Romo or Tony Romo. 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.680 Ah, I'm an Akman fanily can I say? 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.320 And you know, I think because when I first started podcasting, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.919 there were literally no cops podcasting. Now again, I started 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.640 in the comedy realm, in the sports realm, but as 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.919 I started to gravitate back toward that law enforcement world 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.480 and eventually into true crime, there were very few cops podcasting. 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:11.640 If any. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.560 And now just in a matter of three four years, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:21.480 it's flooded. The podcast industry is flooded with former forensic experts, 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:27.440 lab personnel, police, former prosecutors or current prosecutors. And I'm 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.520 happy to see it because I know for you, it 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:35.400 was initially kind of an investigative journalist thing. But now 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.800 that we have people like you and people like me 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.560 that can mesh together, it's a well rounded, in depth 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:43.440 look into these cases. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:45.200 And I think it's only. 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.640 Improving the quality of the podcast in regards to how 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:51.840 effective they are with helping these. 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:56.560 Families right, let's talk a little bit about We just 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.719 came out of the Jessica V episode. We've heard the 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.520 caam footage from the first two episodes, so we have 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:09.080 a lot of police interaction with THEPD so far with 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.720 characters within this story. So I want to kind of 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.800 go into a little bit of depth with you of 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.120 things that should have been done from the moment she 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.440 went missing, from the moment she was found. We had 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:28.040 talked a little bit about investigating not just from that 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.120 moment she was missing, but starting to look back at 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.640 her life prior to that day she went missing. So 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:36.800 talk to me a little bit about as a detective, 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.280 how you go into this case from ground zero. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.800 Okay, So, what the listener so far has been able 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:50.320 to experience in witness is the initial taking of a 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.440 missing person's report. That's what the bodycam footage was about. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.680 That's what Officer Gantner was doing. What they haven't been 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.840 privy to yet, and to beyond, we're not privy too 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:06.080 because we have not been handed the case file is 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:11.240 what happens after that. So we heard Officer Gantner speak 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:16.320 over the phone with Detective One. Detective One at that 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.000 time was a detective assign to the missing person's unit. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.320 So his job from that point is to do some 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.760 of the things you just touched on. The main focus 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:32.720 is going to be trying to fill in gaps in 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:34.280 Jessica's timeline. 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:35.840 The officers that. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.800 Initially responded to take the missing person's report, they did 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.679 a good job of filling in the timeline for the 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:49.079 most part, hours prior day of her disappearance. Now it's 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.160 the detective's job to go back further, go back weeks, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.800 maybe even months, to try to determine if there was 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.640 a significant change in her life, if there was a 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:05.240 signal an event that occurred that could possibly be directly 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.760 related to why she is now deceased. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.959 And one of those things that we already know from 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.560 the bodycam footage and from Maria herself is there was 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.240 some turmoil in Jessica's life the day before and leading 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:22.800 up to the day she went missing. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.480 They have that knowledge, sure, So now he's going to 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.240 take an in depth dive, or he should take an 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.679 in depth dive in filling in that timeline and maybe 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.960 what led up to the events that Maria touches upon 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.079 when she relays that information to the police to cause 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:46.160 the missing person's report to even occur. So he's going 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.520 to start with the husband. Most cases like this do 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.280 most cases like this, where you have a missing person 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.680 under suspicious circumstances, you have some suspicious information or at 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:01.640 least concerning information coming in from the initial reporting party Maria. 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:03.960 So now you. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.400 Start with that husband because that's the person, for one, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.320 as far as you know, was the last. 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.040 Person to see her before she went missing. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.920 And also he's going to have the most intimate knowledge 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.720 of what's happening in her life day to day, so 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:24.400 you expect him to immediately touch base that next morning, 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.599 if not an hour or two after the report is generated, 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.920 and really explore with him what was going on in 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.440 the last couple months. Did you see anything, did you 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.360 get suspicious of anything significant that was going on with 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.720 her that would cause her to want to leave or 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:49.000 could cause someone to have done something horrible to her. 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.480 It starts there, and then you go to other. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.040 People that are intimately involved in her life, family, very 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.480 close friends. All this an attempt to create that timeline. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.880 Now you don't have to rely on people's word either, 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.920 right because we're in the technological. 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:05.000 Age that we are. 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.800 One are the very first steps you're going to do 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.320 to help complete that timeline. Is you going to send 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.920 or you should send a preservation request to the service 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.120 provider of her cellular device, as well as probably the 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.680 husband's anyone else who could be very intimately connected with 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:25.760 her in. 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:27.880 The time period preceding her disappearance. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.760 Stepping away a little bit from the technology side of things, 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.760 boots on the ground, I mean, canvassing the neighborhood. You 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.560 and I we spoke to people in that neighborhood who 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:43.559 had no idea that someone had gone missing, someone had 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:48.200 been found dead. In fact, someone we spoke to didn't 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.960 know for a year until he saw flyer up asking 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.040 for information. He had no idea that in his own neighborhood, 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.319 what was it, a block away from his home, there 0:11:58.400 --> 0:11:59.240 was a body found. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.320 Well, this is where the detective is going to elicit 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.559 the help of the uniform side of the house officers 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.080 that work that area. He's going to reach out to them. 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:10.400 He's going to say, hey, I'm going to be doing 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.240 some stuff. I'm going to be sending out preservation requests 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.320 all these cellular providers, and then the same thing for 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.600 you know, Facebook accounts, social media stuff. Because, for one, 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.440 if you ever want to go back to actually view 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.000 texts from her device in particular, that's going to disappear 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.040 in a matter of days, that gets purged. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:30.480 By the phone company. 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.600 But if you send that preservation request, the cellular provider 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.040 will freeze that from happening until they hear back from 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.800 you and you say it's okay to go ahead and purge, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.000 So that will always be there in case you need 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.040 to subpoena or get a court order or search. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:46.680 Weren't for it. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.360 Later, even if someone were to delete it from the 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:50.800 actual device. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.360 Yeah, that doesn't matter, right, It's going to be on 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.400 the server. So two things, You'll be able to get 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.960 some insight on communications she was having preceding her disappearing. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.360 It's if not the content of it, who she was 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.280 communicating with. You also be able to check for geolocation 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.760 where she physically was in that timeline. So those things 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.640 are happening, they're going to tie you down to a 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.760 desk for a while. So let's reach out now to 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:15.880 the uniform side of the house officers that work that 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.560 district and say I need a thorough canvas right away 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.760 of that Lakeview neighborhood. Okay, Now at this point she's 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.920 not found yet, she's still a missing person, So you 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.560 really want to focus heavy on that neighborhood. Do houses 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:36.559 nearby have cameras on them, blink systems, whatever, And if 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.680 they find those, then get permission from the homeowner to 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.280 maybe dump that footage and start to review it. Do 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.600 we see her walk off, Do we see a car 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.680 pull up at the intersection near her home and pick 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.600 her up after she walks off? Any of these things 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.319 that could be important to help fill in that timeline. 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:57.839 And here's something else to keep in mind right when 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.520 we're looking for maybe eyewitness within the neighborhood during this 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.520 canvas or hopefully some video footage, is that we know 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.680 she left items at her home that a person would 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.200 normally take with them. She didn't leave in her own car. 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.880 She left her wallet, her ID, all these things, her phone, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.480 things that a normal person would take with them if 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.280 they were just going to go run an errand, or 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.240 even if you were going to run off with the 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.680 intention of never coming back, you would want to have 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:34.280 those things on you. So officers and detectives should not 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.760 be afraid to use common sense in the absence of evidence. Yet, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.800 or to follow their gut. When you're armed with that information, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.520 you have to immediately use common sense and think, well, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.160 she left that home on foot. 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:51.880 I do want to point out, though we also don't 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.040 know if she left by foot. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.880 What if there's camera footage from a neighbor's house the 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.440 covers the front her house, and another camera from another 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.760 neighbor's house that covers the rear exit or the side exit, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.360 and during this timeframe you never see that door open. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:12.320 That could be important. 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.800 Right we have video of every exit from that house 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.240 and we never see her leave. Wouldn't that be important 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:24.200 information because that would contradict probably what you were told 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.600 initially when this missing person's report was taken. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:29.240 I mean, think about this. 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.760 I worked at a time well before body camps as 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.960 a detective. So if I wasn't the first person at 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.960 the scene to take the initial report, which many times 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.840 I was not, I had to rely on that first 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.960 responding officer's report, which is going to be a summary 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.200 as best that officer can recall by the time they 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.360 sit down to actually type out that report. Now, why 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.440 would I want to rely on that when I could 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:03.360 visually and audibly win witness the interaction with the person live, 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:05.560 I'm going to hear exactly how it happened. 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:07.720 Not only that, because I can see it visually. 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.120 Not only can I hear exactly what the person was reporting, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:17.160 but I can visually see body languids, facial expression, all 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:22.720 those nonverbal behaviors that are important when trying to determine 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:26.480 if you're getting truthful information from them. So it's an 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:31.720 invaluable tool, and it is standard practice today for detectives 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.600 to pull that bodycam footage and then thoroughly look through 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.120 it to aid them in their investigation. 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.280 Just to be fair, we don't know because we don't 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.960 have access to the case file or any investigative notes 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.680 from Detective lun or anyone else with the n OPD. 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.360 Maybe they did use the bodycamp footage as part of 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:57.320 that investigation. Maybe they did thoroughly canvass the neighborhood, albeit 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.280 not with neighbors we spoke to. But let's talk a 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.760 little bit about how police have had this case for 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.280 ten days and her family from out of state who 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:12.479 comes in to do a search uncovers her body. 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.320 Okay, so let's think in these terms everything that I 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.760 just talked about. We don't know obviously, whether or not 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.399 those were things that were done by detective Want or 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.359 anyone else for that matter. We just know that these 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.240 are things that should be done. So everything I just 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:35.440 listed off should let the listener know. At this point 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.600 this case potentially had a lot of positive things working 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.760 for it. Now it's in the hands initially for somewhere 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.560 between seven and ten days of a missing person's detective 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.960 and the family is not hearing anything back. According to them, 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.400 that leads them to believe that any sort of physical 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.960 search in the nearby and surrounding area of her home 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.640 is going to be conducted by police or anyone via police. 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.359 So they're organizing their own search. They're going to go 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.119 scalt best locations in that area to form a search 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:14.240 party and conduct. 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.840 Their own search. That shouldn't have to be done. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.800 Not to say that police have time on every missing 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.600 person's case to pull in a bunch of bodies and 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:29.000 conduct searches everywhere that they can find in the surrounding 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.720 area of where the person went missing. What they have 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.600 to do is take a look at the circumstances surrounding 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:39.680 that person's disappearance in its totality, is it suspicious, Does 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.920 it lead me to believe in my gut and using 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.280 my common sense that it's likely this person fell victim 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:51.560 to foul play of some sort, and then decide from there. 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:53.000 Okay, I know I can't. 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.520 Do this in every case, but this is a case 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.679 that I think likely is going to elevate into something 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.199 much worse. So I'm going into help as much as 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.520 I can with that. Not that I can pull thirty 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.320 or forty cops off the street from what they're doing. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.280 We know New Orleans is a very busy city and 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.320 there's a lot of violent crime there and a lot 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.960 of things actively to be worked on that you don't 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.120 want to pull that many people away from being able 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:20.080 to respond to. But there are resources within the area 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:24.119 of New Orleans in every big city to lead a 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.040 search and get community involvement. You know, you can use 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.800 the National Guard. There are these other private resources that 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.159 you can access to bring you bodies to search, and 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:36.680 all you got to do is help manage it. 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.399 I'm going to jump ahead a little bit to this 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.920 encounter that Jessica Vee had and the letter that she received. 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.439 I think the episode flushed that out enough, but I 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.399 do want to talk about the interactions that she had 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:56.320 with NPD and get your take on how they could 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.560 have used Jessica v as more of a re source 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:02.040 than they did. 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.800 So a couple of things with Jessica Vee. Without reiterating 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.400 all the details of the interaction she had with Justin, 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.040 we do know that she was concerned enough that she 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.480 reached out to police and whoever it was on the 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.760 police and told her there was not a homicide investigator 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:26.280 assigned to this investigation. So they direct her to the 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:31.040 coroner's office because from other things that she is telling them, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:35.760 they are concerned that this might be a mental health crisis, 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.800 so they direct her the coroner's office because that's the 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.679 first stage and initiating maybe a seventy two hour mental 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.840 health hold, an involuntary hold of someone for mental health concerns. 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:48.520 So she goes. 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.359 There and despite the lack of professionalism and some of 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:56.000 the things that happened, protocol wise, things are done correctly. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.879 What I don't like about it was that a copy 0:20:59.920 --> 0:21:03.800 of made of this letter and then prepares her paperwork 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.120 and then puts it in an envelope along with possibly 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.159 the original letter, seals it up and then gives it 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.240 back to Jessica Vie and says, what you need to 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.840 do now is go hand deliver this to this office 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.320 within the police department. So now she's acting as kind 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.600 of an employee herself of this process, like she's an 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.199 employee of the City of New Orleans and has to 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.760 go do this. The reason I don't like that is 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.520 it's very discouraging for people. 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:33.760 To bring forward information. 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:38.719 It's scary enough to interject yourself into this situation if 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.960 you're Jessica Vee, But now that just adds further discouragement 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:46.560 of her or anyone else ever wanting to do the 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.000 right thing and insert themselves in such a situation. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:50.960 And then she gets to the police. 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:55.439 Department, and you know, they do properly what they should 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.680 to help initiate a seventy two our mental health hold. 0:21:58.440 --> 0:21:59.200 On an individual. 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:03.880 But there are other circumstances involved here. This is wrapped 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:09.520 within now at this point, a death investigation that is 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:11.280 considered suspicious. 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:13.320 There are suspicious circumstances. 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.760 The police department knows that a detective currently assigned to 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:21.000 that case knows that, and whether or not this particular 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.439 person she dealt with has any kind of direct knowledge 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:24.720 of this. 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.439 They are now being informed. 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.160 By Jessica Vee of the parties, and after a quick 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:34.000 little CAD search, you would see that this is in place. 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:36.200 So then you might want to get a hold of 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:40.879 the detective that is assigned jess Caasereely during death investigation, right, 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.800 whether that be a district detective or whoever has it 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.040 at that point, reach out to them and let them 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.119 know what's going on, so at least they have the 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:54.080 chance to decide whether or not Jessicavi's intervention now is 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:56.919 of use to that investigation if you decide it is. 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.920 There are a couple creative outside the things that are 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.840 simple to do, and I have done very similar things 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:06.880 in my career, and I've witnessed it done by other 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:10.439 people in investigations similar to this before. And that is 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:14.880 simply I have a person here who had what they 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:19.439 deem as an uncomfortable interaction with the husband of Jessica 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:20.320 Easterly Journey. 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:22.200 That's my victim. 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:28.920 That person seems very forthcoming in conversation with information about 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.320 the death of his wife to this person, Jessica V. 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:38.760 Maybe I could explore the possibility of using Jessica V 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:44.840 as a means of recording conversations either over telephone or 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:47.240 in person with Justin Dearney. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.360 Now, at this point, we don't. 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:53.600