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Speaker 1: Hey listeners, just a quick note to let you know

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Speaker 1: that this week we are taking a break from our

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Speaker 1: regular release schedule to bring you a special bonus episode.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to tune in next week when we return

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Speaker 1: with episode five. If you miss past episodes, you can

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Speaker 1: binge them ad free on Tenderfoot Plus. Hey listeners, Jessica here,

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Speaker 1: be sure to check out new episodes of undetermined every

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Speaker 1: Tuesday for free wherever you get your podcasts. For early

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Speaker 1: and ad free listening, check out Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

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Speaker 1: those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show,

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Speaker 1: and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings.

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Speaker 1: All individuals described or mentioned in the podcast should be

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Speaker 1: considered innocent until found guilty in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter such as violence and graphic descriptions,

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Speaker 1: which may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion

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Speaker 1: is advised. Hey everybody, Jessica here. In this special bonus episode,

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Speaker 1: we're continuing our behind the scenes analysis of Jessica Easterly

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Speaker 1: Derning's case. Now that we're a few episodes in we're

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Speaker 1: starting to hear more about some of the events that

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Speaker 1: happened before and after Jessica's death. In this episode, we

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Speaker 1: want to provide some insider perspective on what it looks

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Speaker 1: like to investigate a case like this, as well as

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Speaker 1: offer an overview of what we know about how NPD's

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Speaker 1: investmenttigation has been going up to this point in the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Joining me here to offer an experience perspective on investigations

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Speaker 1: is of course, our own former detective Todd Macoma's Hey Todd.

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Speaker 2: Hey Jessica, thanks for having me so.

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Speaker 1: Todd, There's one thing that I want to know right

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Speaker 1: off the bat before we go deep into this investigation.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what it's like to investigate a case like

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Speaker 1: this for a true crime podcast as opposed to what

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Speaker 1: it was like investigating it as a police detective.

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Speaker 2: I really like it.

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Speaker 3: I wondered initially what it was going to be like

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Speaker 3: compared to being a police detective. But what I'm finding

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Speaker 3: is now I get to focus one hundred percent of

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Speaker 3: my energy, time and effort on just one case, one

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Speaker 3: investigation right now. When you're a police detective, you have

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Speaker 3: a stack of other cases that compete with the one

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Speaker 3: you're trying to devote your efforts to and there's all

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Speaker 3: the other things that come with working for a government agency,

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Speaker 3: the bureaucracy of it, you training, the interrupts things.

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Speaker 2: All the time that you have to attend.

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Speaker 3: You might have to stop a criminal investigation because they

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Speaker 3: need you to do an applicant background investigation. So all

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Speaker 3: those things I really really like. I like that we

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Speaker 3: can go so in depth and just focus our efforts

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Speaker 3: in one direction.

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Speaker 1: And something that I have always had to deal with

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Speaker 1: being a journalist is not having necessarily access to everything

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Speaker 1: that has to do with the case. And so that's

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Speaker 1: kind of different for you. And maybe one of the

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Speaker 1: drawbacks in this type of investigation, Oh.

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Speaker 3: Man, it tries to be bonkers not to have all

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Speaker 3: the tools and resources that I had while I was

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Speaker 3: a police detective, you know, being able to just quickly

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Speaker 3: run on someone's driver's record, their criminal history, you know,

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Speaker 3: just to call another police department and them openly share

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Speaker 3: any information they have on someone that you're looking into.

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Speaker 3: All those things are hampering and they do handcuff.

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Speaker 2: Us a bit.

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Speaker 3: But again it's it's a new challenge also, right, so

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Speaker 3: to have to navigate the challenges of that is stimulating.

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Speaker 1: I find I also think it forces us to get

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Speaker 1: creative and take our investigation to a different level and

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Speaker 1: then bring it back to the whole storytelling aspect of this, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, focusing on the victim's story. And also I

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Speaker 1: have found as a journalist we can sometimes get people

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Speaker 1: to talk that may not want to talk to law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: Those interviews it's a different dynamic because You're right, it

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Speaker 3: can be scary talking to the police. So we're just

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Speaker 3: talking to people that are potential witnesses, or that we

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Speaker 3: know are witnesses, or we're just trying to gather that

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Speaker 3: initial round of information. A lot of times we can

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Speaker 3: get them to open up more so than when I

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Speaker 3: walk in with a badge on my belt and a

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Speaker 3: gun on my hip. And I've learned a lot from

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Speaker 3: you in that regard, because you've been interviewing people under

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Speaker 3: these circumstances your entire career, and I'm really enjoying that

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Speaker 3: aspect as well. And listen, I now compare this to

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Speaker 3: because I like to use my experience, I'm really going

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Speaker 3: to kick out of using my experience to be able

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Speaker 3: to analyze a police investigation now, So I very much

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Speaker 3: find myself in a position now like Troy Aikman, you

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Speaker 3: know who used to play in the NFL and now

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Speaker 3: he's going to armchair quarterback instead of quarterback and be

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Speaker 3: an analyst.

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Speaker 2: Of the game.

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Speaker 1: Or Tony Romo or Tony Romo.

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Speaker 2: Ah, I'm an Akman fanily can I say?

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Speaker 3: And you know, I think because when I first started podcasting,

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Speaker 3: there were literally no cops podcasting. Now again, I started

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Speaker 3: in the comedy realm, in the sports realm, but as

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Speaker 3: I started to gravitate back toward that law enforcement world

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Speaker 3: and eventually into true crime, there were very few cops podcasting.

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Speaker 2: If any.

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Speaker 3: And now just in a matter of three four years,

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Speaker 3: it's flooded. The podcast industry is flooded with former forensic experts,

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Speaker 3: lab personnel, police, former prosecutors or current prosecutors. And I'm

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Speaker 3: happy to see it because I know for you, it

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Speaker 3: was initially kind of an investigative journalist thing. But now

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Speaker 3: that we have people like you and people like me

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Speaker 3: that can mesh together, it's a well rounded, in depth

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Speaker 3: look into these cases.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's only.

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Speaker 3: Improving the quality of the podcast in regards to how

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Speaker 3: effective they are with helping these.

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Speaker 1: Families right, let's talk a little bit about We just

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Speaker 1: came out of the Jessica V episode. We've heard the

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Speaker 1: caam footage from the first two episodes, so we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of police interaction with THEPD so far with

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Speaker 1: characters within this story. So I want to kind of

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Speaker 1: go into a little bit of depth with you of

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Speaker 1: things that should have been done from the moment she

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Speaker 1: went missing, from the moment she was found. We had

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit about investigating not just from that

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Speaker 1: moment she was missing, but starting to look back at

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Speaker 1: her life prior to that day she went missing. So

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Speaker 1: talk to me a little bit about as a detective,

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Speaker 1: how you go into this case from ground zero.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So, what the listener so far has been able

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Speaker 3: to experience in witness is the initial taking of a

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Speaker 3: missing person's report. That's what the bodycam footage was about.

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Speaker 3: That's what Officer Gantner was doing. What they haven't been

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Speaker 3: privy to yet, and to beyond, we're not privy too

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Speaker 3: because we have not been handed the case file is

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Speaker 3: what happens after that. So we heard Officer Gantner speak

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Speaker 3: over the phone with Detective One. Detective One at that

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Speaker 3: time was a detective assign to the missing person's unit.

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Speaker 3: So his job from that point is to do some

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Speaker 3: of the things you just touched on. The main focus

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Speaker 3: is going to be trying to fill in gaps in

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Speaker 3: Jessica's timeline.

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Speaker 2: The officers that.

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Speaker 3: Initially responded to take the missing person's report, they did

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Speaker 3: a good job of filling in the timeline for the

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Speaker 3: most part, hours prior day of her disappearance. Now it's

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Speaker 3: the detective's job to go back further, go back weeks,

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Speaker 3: maybe even months, to try to determine if there was

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Speaker 3: a significant change in her life, if there was a

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Speaker 3: signal an event that occurred that could possibly be directly

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Speaker 3: related to why she is now deceased.

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Speaker 1: And one of those things that we already know from

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Speaker 1: the bodycam footage and from Maria herself is there was

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Speaker 1: some turmoil in Jessica's life the day before and leading

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Speaker 1: up to the day she went missing.

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Speaker 3: They have that knowledge, sure, So now he's going to

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Speaker 3: take an in depth dive, or he should take an

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Speaker 3: in depth dive in filling in that timeline and maybe

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Speaker 3: what led up to the events that Maria touches upon

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Speaker 3: when she relays that information to the police to cause

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Speaker 3: the missing person's report to even occur. So he's going

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Speaker 3: to start with the husband. Most cases like this do

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Speaker 3: most cases like this, where you have a missing person

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Speaker 3: under suspicious circumstances, you have some suspicious information or at

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Speaker 3: least concerning information coming in from the initial reporting party Maria.

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Speaker 2: So now you.

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Speaker 3: Start with that husband because that's the person, for one,

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Speaker 3: as far as you know, was the last.

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Speaker 2: Person to see her before she went missing.

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Speaker 3: And also he's going to have the most intimate knowledge

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Speaker 3: of what's happening in her life day to day, so

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Speaker 3: you expect him to immediately touch base that next morning,

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Speaker 3: if not an hour or two after the report is generated,

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Speaker 3: and really explore with him what was going on in

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Speaker 3: the last couple months. Did you see anything, did you

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Speaker 3: get suspicious of anything significant that was going on with

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Speaker 3: her that would cause her to want to leave or

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Speaker 3: could cause someone to have done something horrible to her.

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Speaker 2: It starts there, and then you go to other.

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Speaker 3: People that are intimately involved in her life, family, very

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Speaker 3: close friends. All this an attempt to create that timeline.

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Speaker 3: Now you don't have to rely on people's word either,

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Speaker 3: right because we're in the technological.

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Speaker 2: Age that we are.

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Speaker 3: One are the very first steps you're going to do

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Speaker 3: to help complete that timeline. Is you going to send

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Speaker 3: or you should send a preservation request to the service

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Speaker 3: provider of her cellular device, as well as probably the

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Speaker 3: husband's anyone else who could be very intimately connected with

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Speaker 3: her in.

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Speaker 2: The time period preceding her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: Stepping away a little bit from the technology side of things,

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Speaker 1: boots on the ground, I mean, canvassing the neighborhood. You

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Speaker 1: and I we spoke to people in that neighborhood who

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Speaker 1: had no idea that someone had gone missing, someone had

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Speaker 1: been found dead. In fact, someone we spoke to didn't

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Speaker 1: know for a year until he saw flyer up asking

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Speaker 1: for information. He had no idea that in his own neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: what was it, a block away from his home, there

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Speaker 1: was a body found.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is where the detective is going to elicit

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Speaker 3: the help of the uniform side of the house officers

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Speaker 3: that work that area. He's going to reach out to them.

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Speaker 3: He's going to say, hey, I'm going to be doing

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Speaker 3: some stuff. I'm going to be sending out preservation requests

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Speaker 3: all these cellular providers, and then the same thing for

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Speaker 3: you know, Facebook accounts, social media stuff. Because, for one,

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Speaker 3: if you ever want to go back to actually view

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Speaker 3: texts from her device in particular, that's going to disappear

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Speaker 3: in a matter of days, that gets purged.

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Speaker 2: By the phone company.

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Speaker 3: But if you send that preservation request, the cellular provider

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Speaker 3: will freeze that from happening until they hear back from

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Speaker 3: you and you say it's okay to go ahead and purge,

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Speaker 3: So that will always be there in case you need

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Speaker 3: to subpoena or get a court order or search.

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Speaker 2: Weren't for it.

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Speaker 1: Later, even if someone were to delete it from the

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Speaker 1: actual device.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that doesn't matter, right, It's going to be on

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Speaker 3: the server. So two things, You'll be able to get

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Speaker 3: some insight on communications she was having preceding her disappearing.

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Speaker 3: It's if not the content of it, who she was

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Speaker 3: communicating with. You also be able to check for geolocation

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Speaker 3: where she physically was in that timeline. So those things

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Speaker 3: are happening, they're going to tie you down to a

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Speaker 3: desk for a while. So let's reach out now to

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Speaker 3: the uniform side of the house officers that work that

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Speaker 3: district and say I need a thorough canvas right away

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Speaker 3: of that Lakeview neighborhood. Okay, Now at this point she's

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Speaker 3: not found yet, she's still a missing person, So you

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Speaker 3: really want to focus heavy on that neighborhood. Do houses

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Speaker 3: nearby have cameras on them, blink systems, whatever, And if

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Speaker 3: they find those, then get permission from the homeowner to

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Speaker 3: maybe dump that footage and start to review it. Do

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Speaker 3: we see her walk off, Do we see a car

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Speaker 3: pull up at the intersection near her home and pick

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Speaker 3: her up after she walks off? Any of these things

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Speaker 3: that could be important to help fill in that timeline.

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Speaker 3: And here's something else to keep in mind right when

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Speaker 3: we're looking for maybe eyewitness within the neighborhood during this

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Speaker 3: canvas or hopefully some video footage, is that we know

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Speaker 3: she left items at her home that a person would

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Speaker 3: normally take with them. She didn't leave in her own car.

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Speaker 3: She left her wallet, her ID, all these things, her phone,

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Speaker 3: things that a normal person would take with them if

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Speaker 3: they were just going to go run an errand, or

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Speaker 3: even if you were going to run off with the

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Speaker 3: intention of never coming back, you would want to have

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Speaker 3: those things on you. So officers and detectives should not

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Speaker 3: be afraid to use common sense in the absence of evidence. Yet,

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Speaker 3: or to follow their gut. When you're armed with that information,

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Speaker 3: you have to immediately use common sense and think, well,

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Speaker 3: she left that home on foot.

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Speaker 1: I do want to point out, though we also don't

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Speaker 1: know if she left by foot.

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Speaker 3: What if there's camera footage from a neighbor's house the

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Speaker 3: covers the front her house, and another camera from another

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Speaker 3: neighbor's house that covers the rear exit or the side exit,

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Speaker 3: and during this timeframe you never see that door open.

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Speaker 2: That could be important.

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Speaker 3: Right we have video of every exit from that house

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Speaker 3: and we never see her leave. Wouldn't that be important

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Speaker 3: information because that would contradict probably what you were told

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Speaker 3: initially when this missing person's report was taken.

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Speaker 2: I mean, think about this.

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Speaker 3: I worked at a time well before body camps as

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Speaker 3: a detective. So if I wasn't the first person at

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Speaker 3: the scene to take the initial report, which many times

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Speaker 3: I was not, I had to rely on that first

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Speaker 3: responding officer's report, which is going to be a summary

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Speaker 3: as best that officer can recall by the time they

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Speaker 3: sit down to actually type out that report. Now, why

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Speaker 3: would I want to rely on that when I could

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Speaker 3: visually and audibly win witness the interaction with the person live,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to hear exactly how it happened.

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Speaker 2: Not only that, because I can see it visually.

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Speaker 3: Not only can I hear exactly what the person was reporting,

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Speaker 3: but I can visually see body languids, facial expression, all

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Speaker 3: those nonverbal behaviors that are important when trying to determine

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Speaker 3: if you're getting truthful information from them. So it's an

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Speaker 3: invaluable tool, and it is standard practice today for detectives

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Speaker 3: to pull that bodycam footage and then thoroughly look through

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Speaker 3: it to aid them in their investigation.

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Speaker 1: Just to be fair, we don't know because we don't

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Speaker 1: have access to the case file or any investigative notes

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Speaker 1: from Detective lun or anyone else with the n OPD.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they did use the bodycamp footage as part of

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Speaker 1: that investigation. Maybe they did thoroughly canvass the neighborhood, albeit

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Speaker 1: not with neighbors we spoke to. But let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how police have had this case for

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Speaker 1: ten days and her family from out of state who

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Speaker 1: comes in to do a search uncovers her body.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let's think in these terms everything that I

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Speaker 3: just talked about. We don't know obviously, whether or not

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Speaker 3: those were things that were done by detective Want or

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Speaker 3: anyone else for that matter. We just know that these

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Speaker 3: are things that should be done. So everything I just

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Speaker 3: listed off should let the listener know. At this point

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Speaker 3: this case potentially had a lot of positive things working

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Speaker 3: for it. Now it's in the hands initially for somewhere

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Speaker 3: between seven and ten days of a missing person's detective

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Speaker 3: and the family is not hearing anything back. According to them,

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Speaker 3: that leads them to believe that any sort of physical

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Speaker 3: search in the nearby and surrounding area of her home

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Speaker 3: is going to be conducted by police or anyone via police.

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Speaker 3: So they're organizing their own search. They're going to go

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Speaker 3: scalt best locations in that area to form a search

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Speaker 3: party and conduct.

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Speaker 2: Their own search. That shouldn't have to be done.

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Speaker 3: Not to say that police have time on every missing

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Speaker 3: person's case to pull in a bunch of bodies and

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Speaker 3: conduct searches everywhere that they can find in the surrounding

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Speaker 3: area of where the person went missing. What they have

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Speaker 3: to do is take a look at the circumstances surrounding

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Speaker 3: that person's disappearance in its totality, is it suspicious, Does

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Speaker 3: it lead me to believe in my gut and using

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Speaker 3: my common sense that it's likely this person fell victim

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Speaker 3: to foul play of some sort, and then decide from there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I know I can't.

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Speaker 3: Do this in every case, but this is a case

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Speaker 3: that I think likely is going to elevate into something

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Speaker 3: much worse. So I'm going into help as much as

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Speaker 3: I can with that. Not that I can pull thirty

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Speaker 3: or forty cops off the street from what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: We know New Orleans is a very busy city and

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of violent crime there and a lot

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Speaker 3: of things actively to be worked on that you don't

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Speaker 3: want to pull that many people away from being able

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Speaker 3: to respond to. But there are resources within the area

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Speaker 3: of New Orleans in every big city to lead a

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Speaker 3: search and get community involvement. You know, you can use

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Speaker 3: the National Guard. There are these other private resources that

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Speaker 3: you can access to bring you bodies to search, and

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Speaker 3: all you got to do is help manage it.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to jump ahead a little bit to this

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Speaker 1: encounter that Jessica Vee had and the letter that she received.

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Speaker 1: I think the episode flushed that out enough, but I

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Speaker 1: do want to talk about the interactions that she had

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Speaker 1: with NPD and get your take on how they could

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Speaker 1: have used Jessica v as more of a re source

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Speaker 1: than they did.

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Speaker 3: So a couple of things with Jessica Vee. Without reiterating

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Speaker 3: all the details of the interaction she had with Justin,

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00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 3: we do know that she was concerned enough that she

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Speaker 3: reached out to police and whoever it was on the

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Speaker 3: police and told her there was not a homicide investigator

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Speaker 3: assigned to this investigation. So they direct her to the

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Speaker 3: coroner's office because from other things that she is telling them,

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Speaker 3: they are concerned that this might be a mental health crisis,

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Speaker 3: so they direct her the coroner's office because that's the

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00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,679
Speaker 3: first stage and initiating maybe a seventy two hour mental

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Speaker 3: health hold, an involuntary hold of someone for mental health concerns.

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Speaker 2: So she goes.

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Speaker 3: There and despite the lack of professionalism and some of

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00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 3: the things that happened, protocol wise, things are done correctly.

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Speaker 3: What I don't like about it was that a copy

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Speaker 3: of made of this letter and then prepares her paperwork

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Speaker 3: and then puts it in an envelope along with possibly

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Speaker 3: the original letter, seals it up and then gives it

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Speaker 3: back to Jessica Vie and says, what you need to

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Speaker 3: do now is go hand deliver this to this office

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Speaker 3: within the police department. So now she's acting as kind

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Speaker 3: of an employee herself of this process, like she's an

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Speaker 3: employee of the City of New Orleans and has to

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Speaker 3: go do this. The reason I don't like that is

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Speaker 3: it's very discouraging for people.

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Speaker 2: To bring forward information.

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Speaker 3: It's scary enough to interject yourself into this situation if

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Speaker 3: you're Jessica Vee, But now that just adds further discouragement

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Speaker 3: of her or anyone else ever wanting to do the

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Speaker 3: right thing and insert themselves in such a situation.

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Speaker 2: And then she gets to the police.

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Speaker 3: Department, and you know, they do properly what they should

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Speaker 3: to help initiate a seventy two our mental health hold.

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Speaker 2: On an individual.

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Speaker 3: But there are other circumstances involved here. This is wrapped

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Speaker 3: within now at this point, a death investigation that is

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Speaker 3: considered suspicious.

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Speaker 2: There are suspicious circumstances.

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Speaker 3: The police department knows that a detective currently assigned to

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Speaker 3: that case knows that, and whether or not this particular

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Speaker 3: person she dealt with has any kind of direct knowledge

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Speaker 3: of this.

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Speaker 2: They are now being informed.

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Speaker 3: By Jessica Vee of the parties, and after a quick

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Speaker 3: little CAD search, you would see that this is in place.

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Speaker 3: So then you might want to get a hold of

381
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Speaker 3: the detective that is assigned jess Caasereely during death investigation, right,

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Speaker 3: whether that be a district detective or whoever has it

383
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Speaker 3: at that point, reach out to them and let them

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Speaker 3: know what's going on, so at least they have the

385
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Speaker 3: chance to decide whether or not Jessicavi's intervention now is

386
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Speaker 3: of use to that investigation if you decide it is.

387
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Speaker 3: There are a couple creative outside the things that are

388
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Speaker 3: simple to do, and I have done very similar things

389
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Speaker 3: in my career, and I've witnessed it done by other

390
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Speaker 3: people in investigations similar to this before. And that is

391
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Speaker 3: simply I have a person here who had what they

392
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Speaker 3: deem as an uncomfortable interaction with the husband of Jessica

393
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Speaker 3: Easterly Journey.

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Speaker 2: That's my victim.

395
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Speaker 3: That person seems very forthcoming in conversation with information about

396
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Speaker 3: the death of his wife to this person, Jessica V.

397
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Speaker 3: Maybe I could explore the possibility of using Jessica V

398
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Speaker 3: as a means of recording conversations either over telephone or

399
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Speaker 3: in person with Justin Dearney.

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Speaker 2: Now, at this point, we don't.

401
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Speaker 3: Know obviously if Justin is considered a suspect or if

402
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 3: he is not considered a suspect. But what we know

403
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: is that there are some suspicious things surrounding her disappearance

404
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 3: and her death. So it's possible that they're considering that

405
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 3: option or they're not ready to dismiss him as a

406
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 3: person of interest.

407
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: Story suspect yet.

408
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 3: So this could be a mechanism to help you get

409
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: off or on the fence about this with Justin to

410
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 3: decide once and for all if he's someone who should

411
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 3: be considered a person of interest or a suspect or.

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Speaker 1: Not not necessarily information that's going to implicate him, but

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Speaker 1: just additional information that had not been gathered yet from police.

414
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Speaker 3: Honestly, I will be looking to see if he provides

415
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Speaker 3: information that contradicts information that he reported to my officers.

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Speaker 3: If so, you know, that's going to be of concern.

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Speaker 3: You know, I just think it's an opportunity. And again,

418
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Speaker 3: I've done this before in past investigations I was involved with,

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Speaker 3: So it's something that's easily done. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: Jessica vee would even be willing to do it, But

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Speaker 3: you know it's worth exploring beyond this seventy two our

422
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Speaker 3: mental health hoold.

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Speaker 1: We don't know if once she was found then that

424
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: investigation was then handed off to another investigator. What we

425
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: do know is that there was a homicide detective on

426
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: the scene when her body was discovered, but we don't

427
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: know from that point on who may have been investigating it.

428
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Speaker 1: Talk to me a little todd about why it would

429
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Speaker 1: be so harmful if there was a gap in the

430
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Speaker 1: investigation while they're waiting on a manner of death. And

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that is we go from missing

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Speaker 1: person to death investigation. Meanwhile, six months later, her cause

433
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Speaker 1: and manner death is ruled as undetermined.

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Speaker 3: Let's explore that, and maybe this is a good way

435
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 3: to wrap up this conversation.

436
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Speaker 2: Let's thoroughly look into just.

437
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 3: What happens in cases like this when missing person's report

438
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: is first made. Obviously that and immediately gets assigned to

439
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 3: a detective within the missing person's unit. If your agency

440
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 3: has such a thing, Larger agencies do, so let's just

441
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: stick with protocol at these large agencies, so it goes

442
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: immediately to a missing person's detective, and it will stay

443
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Speaker 3: with that missing person's detective until that person is no

444
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 3: longer missing, meaning they are found alive or deceased. In

445
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: this instance, she's found deceased seven or ten days later.

446
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 3: So at that point it leaves the hands of the

447
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: missing person's detective. It gets transferred to a detective at.

448
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: The district level.

449
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 3: So once we know this is a death investigation, you're

450
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 3: going to have a homicide detective and a district detective

451
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 3: show up when that body's found, and there's a conversation

452
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: that takes place. Both just kind of way I've seen this.

453
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 3: Both are like chomping at the bed. You know, am

454
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 3: I going to get to work this case? Or am

455
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: I going to get to work this case? Well, you

456
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: hope for that because you want detectives to be passionate

457
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: about solving these cases. So both will be there and

458
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 3: then there will be an initial determination of is this

459
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 3: going to most likely be a homicide or not. So

460
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 3: if the determination is made, we can't say that this

461
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 3: is probably going to be a homicide, So right now

462
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 3: we're going to assign a district detective to it. If

463
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: something changes because of the medical examiners examination, and as

464
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 3: classified as a homicide, then that district detective will hand

465
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 3: it off to the homicide detective.

466
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 2: Now, all this I.

467
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 3: Could give a shit less about from an investigation standpoint,

468
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 3: because there should be no gaps, as you mentioned, in

469
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: investigating this case, and everybody should be working it in

470
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 3: the same manner, regardless of the title of the unit

471
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 3: that you work with. In so everything the detective lun

472
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: is doing would be the same things that the district

473
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 3: detective and that the homicide detective would be if they

474
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: were working this from the ground up. So once it's

475
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 3: handed off, it should be a seamless transition for the

476
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: missing person's detective to hand this off to the district detective.

477
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 3: The district detective now has all the information. They will

478
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 3: work in concert with the missing person's detective for a

479
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: period of time long enough that they feel comfortable Okay,

480
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: I am up to speed to where you are. I

481
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 3: can now take it over, and then the missing person's

482
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 3: detective is freed up to work other missing person's cases.

483
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: So the district detective has it and picks up where

484
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: they left off. Hopefully everything that we discussed earlier has

485
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: already been done. That's the advantage this district detective has,

486
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 3: so now his job is to follow up from there. Okay,

487
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: help solidify that timeline. If there are still gaps, I know,

488
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: I've got these preservation requests for all this data from

489
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: electronic devices and social media accounts. I can now decide

490
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: if I want to send subpoenas, court orders or warrants

491
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: for that stuff, and continue to try to find more

492
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 3: and more people to talk to. Then when we reach

493
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: this point in January where finally a cause and manner

494
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: of death is listed, each undetermined, then we know it's

495
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: going to stay with that district detective. It's not gonna

496
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 3: be handed off to a homicide detective. But the emphasis

497
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 3: I want to place on this is, let's say it

498
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: does at some point change to a homicide, and then

499
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: it must be transferred from the district detective to a

500
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: homicide detective who gives a shit. It does not change

501
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: the way you investigate this. And I will say this,

502
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: if within this process at NPD we find out that

503
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: there is a gap that someone at some investigative level

504
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: is not working it because they're just simply waiting for

505
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: the right classification or for the right circumstances to present themselves.

506
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: That will be a shame because that's potentially catastrophic to

507
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: this investigation.

508
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: Sure, because we're going from the first forty eight to

509
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: the first six months, and how much of anything then

510
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: is completely gone and lost.

511
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: So we just have to hope that's not the case

512
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: here because there would be irreversible damage costs from that.

513
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 3: So we have to hope for the best and that

514
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: everybody is doing the right things up to this point,

515
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 3: and that if a handoff must occur, that that happens

516
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: seamlessly and it does not burden this investigation at all.

517
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: Well, what you and I can tell listeners at this

518
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: point we will be talking to the NOPD to find

519
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: out where their investigation stands.

520
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: Stay tuned.

521
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode. I want to

522
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: remind you again that we'll be back next Tuesday with

523
00:30:51,520 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: episode five. Until then. Is a production of Resonate Recordings

524
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: and Tenderfoot TV in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and

525
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: hosted by me Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper

526
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: and Todd McComas, with additional production by Whitney Bozarth. Executive

527
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: producers are Dennis Cooper, Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozarth, Donald Albright,

528
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: and Payne Lindsay. Our senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing,

529
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: mastering and sound design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and

530
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: Pat Kicklider of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have

531
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: a podcast or are looking to start one, check us

532
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: out at Resonate Recordings dot com. Our theme song and

533
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: original score is by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring

534
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: by Dayton Cole. Our cover art is by Station sixteen.

535
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: You can follow Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter

536
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: at Undetermined Pod. Show notes as well as bonus content

537
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: can be found on our website undeterminedpod dot com. If

538
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate,

539
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: and review. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if

540
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: you have any information about this case, call crime Stoppers

541
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: at one eight seven seven nine zero three seven eight

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00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: sixty seven