Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. We come to
Speaker 1: you every Wednesday. This week, don't get to a topic
Speaker 1: that we haven't really gotten to discuss. Club fitting. True
Speaker 1: Spec it's one of the big club fitting outfits here
Speaker 1: in the US, and we have their mobile fitting card
Speaker 1: here and Jordan Patrick as one of the fitters. He's
Speaker 1: helped me with my game and I just think so
Speaker 1: many players could benefit from getting fit properly. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of players are scared to get fit. They
Speaker 1: think it's coln they think it's going to be a
Speaker 1: waste of money. But I promise you you make some serious,
Speaker 1: serious gains by getting club fit, by understanding what club
Speaker 1: fitting is all about. So let's get to it with
Speaker 1: Jordan Patrick. My guest today is Jordan Patrick. He works
Speaker 1: for True Spec. They do club fitting. Jordan, how many
Speaker 1: locations do you guys have across the United States?
Speaker 2: Currently twenty four locations and for mobile unis and.
Speaker 1: You're part of and you're part of the mobile team.
Speaker 1: It's been really cool to have you guys here on
Speaker 1: site here at the learning center at the Floridian. Clubfitting
Speaker 1: is something that I think a lot of golfers get
Speaker 1: scared of I think a lot of people think that
Speaker 1: there's some sort of kind of voodoo, kind of magic
Speaker 1: that clubfitters are trying to sell you golf equipment.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And then there's also golfers that think, listen, I'm not
Speaker 1: good enough to take a club fitting. But as you
Speaker 1: and I both know, I think every golfer, if you
Speaker 1: can get the golf ball airborne, if you're playing golf,
Speaker 1: if you're just not a beginner who's just hitting golf
Speaker 1: balls on a driving right, but if you're venturing out
Speaker 1: on the golf course, club fitting is vital for you
Speaker 1: to get done for your game. I see it at
Speaker 1: the highest level on tour all the time, right, the
Speaker 1: difference between changing a shaft, changing lofts, changing a set makeup.
Speaker 1: But for the average regular golfer that's listening, what do
Speaker 1: you feel is the single most important thing that club
Speaker 1: fitting can do for a player.
Speaker 2: So club fitting is not always going to be, Hey,
Speaker 2: we're going to gain as much distance as we can.
Speaker 2: Everyone wants to gain distance, but you know, just limiting
Speaker 2: to one miss is huge. It can take your scores down.
Speaker 2: But making it just that way, they're all the same
Speaker 2: throughout the set too, and that way you're not getting
Speaker 2: hand me downs, but that allows you to kind of
Speaker 2: have consistency throughout the set. Whether your tour first time
Speaker 2: playing can all make a difference.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of golfers when they start out,
Speaker 1: they're getting golf equipment from parents, fathers, friends, other people,
Speaker 1: and they're getting golf clubs that they have. I mean
Speaker 1: it's a little bit like going to a pharmacy and
Speaker 1: saying that you've got an ill and they give you
Speaker 1: a pill box and you don't actually know what's in it,
Speaker 1: and you're just going to take it and you're surprised
Speaker 1: that you're not feeling any better.
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah, So a lot of people they'll get a
Speaker 2: set of clubs and where they'll have a couple of
Speaker 2: clubs that actually do the same thing. So, you know,
Speaker 2: getting something truly fit for you is huge.
Speaker 1: When we look at So let's go through the bag.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, I think most people are getting club fit.
Speaker 1: I would say for drivers more so than they are
Speaker 1: for putters, wedges or irons. Drivers seem to be, in
Speaker 1: my experience, the thing that people are changing the most
Speaker 1: people aren't. I don't see golfers on mask changing their
Speaker 1: irons on a regular basis. But putters and drivers seem
Speaker 1: to be the quick, interchangeable. They also seem to be
Speaker 1: the thing that all the manufacturers seem to come out
Speaker 1: with yearly on a regular basis. So every year, all
Speaker 1: of the manufacturers that everybody uses, they're all coming out
Speaker 1: with new drivers, they're all coming out with new equipment.
Speaker 1: So let's start with drivers and work our way down
Speaker 1: to irons and then wedges and putters. From a driver standpoint, Jordan,
Speaker 1: I know it's it's it's hard to generalize, but you
Speaker 1: do this almost you know, three hundred days a year.
Speaker 1: What do you see from a fit standpoint that would
Speaker 1: be a generalization, but that somebody can that's listening can
Speaker 1: learn with what do you see across the board that
Speaker 1: players are coming in and you're changing their driver because
Speaker 1: of what?
Speaker 2: So most players think that just by going down on
Speaker 2: the loft, they're going to hit it further. But with
Speaker 2: that decrease in loft and most of the loft sleeves
Speaker 2: across the manufacturers, going down in the loft, we're also
Speaker 2: opening the face. So they just take that wrench, they
Speaker 2: crank it down. They'll be like, hey, I'm gonna hit
Speaker 2: it further.
Speaker 1: So if you've got a ten let's say you've got
Speaker 1: a ten and a half degree driver. All the drivers
Speaker 1: now are adjusted. They've all got different settings to where
Speaker 1: you can adjust what the loft is right, So you've
Speaker 1: got the ten to five, you're hitting that kind of
Speaker 1: high week spinning shot, you think, or someone that's got
Speaker 1: an eight degree driver or a nine degree driver says, hey,
Speaker 1: I've got a nine degree and they hit it further.
Speaker 1: Just turn the loft down. So how does turning the
Speaker 1: loft down make the face go more open?
Speaker 2: So by going down a loft, the face is open
Speaker 2: about one to one ratio. So for every degree of
Speaker 2: loft we take off, the face is opening for that much.
Speaker 1: So if you're a slicer of the golf ball and
Speaker 1: you're losing distance, which I think most people that are
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, I think if everybody that's listening
Speaker 1: raise their hands, the majority of people, their miss is
Speaker 1: probably going to be some sort of miss to the right.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing that I see giving golf
Speaker 1: lessons across the board over the course of a year
Speaker 1: with regular golfers, even even lower handicap golfers, the miss
Speaker 1: tends to be to the right. Do you see that
Speaker 1: as well with the driver?
Speaker 2: Yeah, more people right than like that.
Speaker 1: High spinny right one. So if that's your miss, you
Speaker 1: then knock the loft down to eight degrees because you're
Speaker 1: losing distance. So now the face is going to come
Speaker 1: in more open, and if you're already swinging left in
Speaker 1: the path has already opened. The faces already open the
Speaker 1: death move. So how does the average golfer that's losing distance,
Speaker 1: that's slicing the golf ball to the right. What are
Speaker 1: some of the fixes that you as a club fitter
Speaker 1: can do from an equipment standpoint.
Speaker 2: So we can go to something that is definitely lighter
Speaker 2: than what they're playing, because most average golfers they play
Speaker 2: something that's too heavy and too stiff. So by getting
Speaker 2: something that is going to be lighter, softer, it'll allow
Speaker 2: them to close the face and make a more natural
Speaker 2: move and having to work with something that's just not
Speaker 2: for them. But now all the heads are adjustable, so
Speaker 2: you have tons of flexibility to make them more upright,
Speaker 2: draw biased, move the center gravity back, make them hit
Speaker 2: it higher but not actually spin it. Because that's the
Speaker 2: highest misconception is that a lot of golfers think just
Speaker 2: because I hit it hot, it's gonna spin. But you
Speaker 2: can still hit it high and not have it spin
Speaker 2: a ton and then it's not affected by the wind.
Speaker 1: Right, So give me a life hack for the fifteen
Speaker 1: handicapper that's spinning it a lot missing it to the right,
Speaker 1: like you said, and again, I see this in golf
Speaker 1: lessons all the time. Right across the board. I think
Speaker 1: the average golfer has equipment that they fundamentally just don't
Speaker 1: they can't use. It's a little bit. I always look
Speaker 1: at club fitting and looking at getting a set of
Speaker 1: golf cours or getting golf clubs. Like cars like race cars, right,
Speaker 1: Racing cars are designed a formula. When race car is
Speaker 1: designed to be driven at the speed that maxverstaff and
Speaker 1: drives it. If I try and do that, I don't
Speaker 1: know how to drive, so I'm going to crash the car.
Speaker 1: Golf equipment I see is very similar. I see a
Speaker 1: lot of golfers massively influenced by television. I see them
Speaker 1: massively influence Jordan by television and by what they hear
Speaker 1: on TV. I see that from a distance standpoint. I
Speaker 1: know you guys see that as well. Talk to me
Speaker 1: about the misconception in how far players hit their drivers
Speaker 1: and what I'm always saying to drivers, and I think
Speaker 1: you'd agree with this. We need to give you usable
Speaker 1: distance distance. It doesn't matter if you hit the golf
Speaker 1: ball a long way and it's going offline. We need
Speaker 1: you to So what's a life hack for the slicer?
Speaker 1: Where do the weights need to be in the head?
Speaker 1: All the heads now have interchangeable weight, So you're high,
Speaker 1: you're hitting it to the right, it's spinning a lot,
Speaker 1: and you're losing distance. So from a head makeup, what
Speaker 1: can players that are listening say, Okay, what can I
Speaker 1: do with the head of the driver if I'm slicing
Speaker 1: the golf ball? Where do I put the weights?
Speaker 2: Yep, So for that player that's going to slice it,
Speaker 2: the first setting would be to get to an upright setting.
Speaker 2: So definitely don't want to go down and loft all
Speaker 2: those things. But since all the drivers in that middle
Speaker 2: category of you know your core models are going to
Speaker 2: have that adjustable weight, move that weight into the heel,
Speaker 2: let that toe close quicker for a right handed golfer,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 1: The weight, so a heavier weight in the heel a
Speaker 1: lighter weight out on the toe is going to help
Speaker 1: get that club to feel like it's closing. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: And when we're looking at weights at the back of
Speaker 1: drivers on the head, that's affecting the CG of where
Speaker 1: that is talk to us. We hear that a lot.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people get confused and don't
Speaker 1: want to go to club fitting because they hear terms
Speaker 1: of things with golf clubs that they don't necessarily understand.
Speaker 1: So when we're talking about CG, that's the center of
Speaker 1: gravity in the head of the driver, how does that
Speaker 1: affect what the ball is doing?
Speaker 2: So that's going to affect what the ball does because
Speaker 2: so if we have the center gravity further back in
Speaker 2: the head, it is going to be more forgiving, it's
Speaker 2: going to launch higher. But then if you just take
Speaker 2: that same weight and move it to the front, you
Speaker 2: are generally going to get more balls being lower spin
Speaker 2: for those players just with the same headset up in
Speaker 2: the neutral setting all those things just flipping that can
Speaker 2: change your spin by you know, anywhere from four to
Speaker 2: six hundred RPMs and ad and forgive forgiveness.
Speaker 1: The Holy Grail and driver fitting obviously is high launch,
Speaker 1: low spin. I mean, that's DJ. Last week we were
Speaker 1: looking at spin numbers. He's got a new driver in
Speaker 1: the bag this year, and where we know he plays
Speaker 1: his best when he's long. I mean, and here's the
Speaker 1: other thing. I don't think the average golfer listening realizes
Speaker 1: how much loft some of the best players in the
Speaker 1: world have in their driver. I mean, DJ is over.
Speaker 1: I think he's probably right now close to eleven degrees
Speaker 1: of loft, which the average golfer would think that DJ
Speaker 1: would be playing with something that's kind of around the
Speaker 1: eight to nine range. So when you've got that driver
Speaker 1: and you're trying to figure it out the cg of
Speaker 1: where that is more forgiving to the back. So if
Speaker 1: if it has weights where you can put a weight
Speaker 1: at the front and a weight at the back, you're
Speaker 1: going to want to have the weight or what we
Speaker 1: would call back weight that driver. Right. And then DJ,
Speaker 1: when he plays his best, spins it kind of in
Speaker 1: that eighteen hundred to two thousand range, right, and he's
Speaker 1: launching it at ten or eleven. That is very optimal
Speaker 1: if you have his type of speed. What we see
Speaker 1: a lot of the average golfer do is there the
Speaker 1: opposite with the driver, they have high launch or low
Speaker 1: launch and massively high spin. So if we can reverse that.
Speaker 1: One of the easy ways what I hear you saying
Speaker 1: is listen, get that weight more in the heel so
Speaker 1: the toe's going to close, and then get that weight
Speaker 1: as far back as possible. Get the heaviest weight back.
Speaker 2: Yep. Definitely at lower speeds, heaviest weight back, and don't
Speaker 2: be afraid to use the loft because quite honestly, the
Speaker 2: more loft we're adding, the easier it is to close
Speaker 2: that face.
Speaker 1: Which is the opposite I think of what a lot
Speaker 1: of the people listening feel like. They feel like the
Speaker 1: way they're going to get that face closed is to
Speaker 1: d loft the driver, and that's going to shut it down.
Speaker 1: But as soon as they de loft it at address,
Speaker 1: it's going to set up open and then it's going
Speaker 1: to come in more that way. Talk to me Jordan
Speaker 1: about where players are hitting it on the face with
Speaker 1: the driver. Again, generalizations, but if you have the generalize,
Speaker 1: do you guys see more heel strikes with the average
Speaker 1: handicapped golfer or do we see more toe strikes?
Speaker 2: So I would say that it's definitely more heel strikes.
Speaker 2: But the one that goes I mean better for more
Speaker 2: people to know would be that high and low is
Speaker 2: more effective than hel in tow. So a lot of
Speaker 2: players strike it very very low on the face, which
Speaker 2: is going to be the spinniest driver. They all just
Speaker 2: want to te it lower, and they figure when they
Speaker 2: tee it lower, they're going to hit it lower, but
Speaker 2: really they're hitting it low on the face, so it's
Speaker 2: spinning more, and then it's going to be higher. So
Speaker 2: t at higher, spin it and get more distance.
Speaker 1: Again, I when we're watching players and I'm watching and
Speaker 1: giving golf lessons to the average golfer, one of the things,
Speaker 1: especially with the driver, I'm constantly telling them, T the
Speaker 1: golf ball higher. T the golf ball higher, which is
Speaker 1: so again, golf is counterintuitive. Everybody that I'm telling to
Speaker 1: t the golf ball higher already has the idiot marks
Speaker 1: on top of the golf ball. They've already got marks
Speaker 1: on the top of their driver anyway, So the disconnect
Speaker 1: in their brain is like no, no, no, I'm already
Speaker 1: slicing it. I'm already hitting it high, it's already going short.
Speaker 1: I've already got a bunch of ballmarks kind of on
Speaker 1: the top crown of my driver. Now you want me
Speaker 1: to get more loft t it higher? That just doesn't
Speaker 1: sound logical.
Speaker 2: Why does that work? So that works just because we
Speaker 2: are spinning it less and it's going to force them
Speaker 2: to hit up on it a little more. And a
Speaker 2: lot of golfers they just don't. They don't want to
Speaker 2: change their swing. They just want to change into a
Speaker 2: new product. But hitting up on it is going to
Speaker 2: be the easiest way for them to maximize their distance.
Speaker 2: So there comes a point of return where you can
Speaker 2: only put so much in and get so much out.
Speaker 2: We're not just magically going to gain twenty five yards
Speaker 2: by use swinging the same swing and getting a new head.
Speaker 1: I think that's another big misconception in driver fitting. Everyone
Speaker 1: is looking for the silver bull, I mean the magic bullet, right,
Speaker 1: Everyone's looking Marina Alex who I've had on the pod.
Speaker 1: Marina plays on the LPGA Tour. Marina's you know, under
Speaker 1: five foot five. She doesn't have a ton of speed.
Speaker 1: The holy grail for her is getting more distance. But
Speaker 1: there aren't unicorns out there. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of golfers think that their equipment is going to be
Speaker 1: this unicorn to where they're going to get a new driver,
Speaker 1: they're going to hit it thirty yards further. Let's say
Speaker 1: you're hitting your driver and you're spinning it at you know,
Speaker 1: you're spinning it in kind of the mid three thousands
Speaker 1: to four thousands. You're launching it low, it's curving to
Speaker 1: the right, and it's carrying you know, two fifteen to
Speaker 1: two twenty in the air. How by all of the
Speaker 1: things that you've talked about, if we knock the spin off,
Speaker 1: so if the spin goes from thirty eight hundred with
Speaker 1: a driver to thirty two hundred, what does that mean
Speaker 1: in distance?
Speaker 2: So that's gonna you might not necessarily notice it in
Speaker 2: the air, but once it hits the ground then it's
Speaker 2: going to start running. But adding that spin keeping it
Speaker 2: more straight, then it's going to be more consistent on
Speaker 2: a golf course. And that's what a lot of players
Speaker 2: don't realize is that, hey, hitting you know eight fairways
Speaker 2: out of twelve instead of four is huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other thing that if you look at
Speaker 1: the best drivers of the golf ball in the world,
Speaker 1: then listen, I'm unbelievably lucky to work with two of
Speaker 1: them in Brooks and DJ. One of the things that
Speaker 1: they do when they're drive, when they hit the drivers,
Speaker 1: it's I always think of it like an airplane. The
Speaker 1: airplane is taking off, it gets up to altitude, and
Speaker 1: then it doesn't keep climbing. The average golfer has that
Speaker 1: driver swing to where the ball is getting up in
Speaker 1: the air and then it's continuing to rise up. That's
Speaker 1: the other thing than when we look at trying to
Speaker 1: change it. If we can change the land angle, the
Speaker 1: angle of descent to where the ball isn't coming down
Speaker 1: like a like a lob wedge, to where it's getting
Speaker 1: out and it's coming down flatter, you're going to get
Speaker 1: more roll. That's one of the things when I watch
Speaker 1: you do driver fittings. I always hear you say, listen,
Speaker 1: that's going to roll. That ball is now going to
Speaker 1: roll when it hits the ground. Because so many people
Speaker 1: with their drivers, they spin it so much and they
Speaker 1: hit it so high, it comes down basically soft like
Speaker 1: it would be on a really really soft green and
Speaker 1: has no roll. And again I've heard you say we
Speaker 1: can get you some more distance on the ground. What
Speaker 1: does that mean?
Speaker 2: So you know, flattening that descent angle out. It doesn't
Speaker 2: matter where you play. The ball is going to carry away.
Speaker 2: It carries but allowing it to then roll out once
Speaker 2: it's on the ground, versus spinning more to the right.
Speaker 2: So you know, lowering that CG moving it more towards
Speaker 2: the ford, it might flatten the ball flight out a
Speaker 2: little bit, but spin is going to be your biggest factor.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people just don't realize that their
Speaker 2: height is not from them hitting it high, but they're
Speaker 2: actually spinning it high. So then it's now we're losing
Speaker 2: on both ends.
Speaker 1: For the regular average golfer, non competitive golfer in that
Speaker 1: kind of ten to twenty handicap range. Give us some
Speaker 1: numbers from a launch standpoint and from a spin standpoint
Speaker 1: that everyone listening could say, Okay, let me see if
Speaker 1: I can get on a launch monitor. Go get and
Speaker 1: see what would you like to see what would be
Speaker 1: optimal playability wise for you launch.
Speaker 2: Spin wise, So playability wise launching from you know, anywhere
Speaker 2: from twelve to sixteen degrees is plenty high, and then
Speaker 2: the lowest spin we can have the better. So anywhere
Speaker 2: from twenty two hundred to twenty six hundred is very
Speaker 2: playable for the average golfer not swinging it, you know,
Speaker 2: much higher than one hundred miles per hour. A lot
Speaker 2: of people just don't realize that they are being so
Speaker 2: left out on distance, but really what they're putting in,
Speaker 2: they can't get much more out of it, so tightening
Speaker 2: up that forgiveness, launching it high, hitting fairways is huge.
Speaker 1: We've talked about the club head. More so than the
Speaker 1: club head, the biggest miss that I see with people
Speaker 1: with their drivers is the shaft. They are playing shafts
Speaker 1: that you mentioned it that are too stiff and they're
Speaker 1: too heavy. Why is that?
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the old one, Like everyone just
Speaker 2: has those clubs that they've played forever, and times have changed.
Speaker 2: Everything's becoming so much more light and soft now versus
Speaker 2: heavy and stiff. So as we'll play something light and
Speaker 2: swing it faster, hit the center of the face more,
Speaker 2: and tolerances are just becoming so high from shaft manufacturers.
Speaker 1: I'll give you. I haven't told you this story, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure Brooks wouldn't mind me. Toning is he played
Speaker 1: terrible on Saturday I Live and I watched him and
Speaker 1: he was missing fairways the first four or five holes.
Speaker 1: He's missing fairways by forty yards. Hen't do that there,
Speaker 1: He can't do that there, right, So he basically just
Speaker 1: hit three wood the rest of the round. So the
Speaker 1: driver that he was using the day before cracked broke,
Speaker 1: so he put a new driver in. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: believe this. For some reason, he had a sixty gram
Speaker 1: shaft in his bag, and his gamer shaft is a
Speaker 1: seventy gram shaft. He just put the other head. So
Speaker 1: he took the head, the broken head off, put it on,
Speaker 1: and he didn't even think and he just grabbed the sixty.
Speaker 1: So halfway through the round he realizes she using a
Speaker 1: sixty gram shaft versus a seventy gram shaft. Now, for
Speaker 1: everybody that's listening, that's basically like choosing a car that's
Speaker 1: got You're in a race and they tell you the
Speaker 1: car has got three hundred horsepower, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you get in and it has two hundred. At his speed,
Speaker 1: that ten gram difference is enormous because now the driver
Speaker 1: becomes much more unstable at the speed he's swinging.
Speaker 2: That for sure, at his speed, that's a huge change.
Speaker 1: I mean, we got done, and the three of us
Speaker 1: sat there and we went I think that's a first
Speaker 1: for us, and it's not one that you would think
Speaker 1: because you're just not thinking right. And it's out of
Speaker 1: all the things that driver. I mean, Ricky Elliott always
Speaker 1: is counting how many clubs he's got in the bag
Speaker 1: Brooks's caddy, and there was one time that Brooks was tested.
Speaker 1: This is probably eight years ago. Brooks was testing a
Speaker 1: driver and they put it on and they didn't click
Speaker 1: it all in place, so we hit it. It kind
Speaker 1: of moved. So now it's mandatory for Ricky before every
Speaker 1: single all the woods, he's going to go through with
Speaker 1: the wrench, and Brooks makes him do it. He says, hey,
Speaker 1: check all the woods. So checking the shaft is just
Speaker 1: not something you're not going to think that you're going
Speaker 1: to have a different shaft in, but it had such
Speaker 1: a major effect on it. So my point behind that
Speaker 1: is if if ten grams of weight affects the best
Speaker 1: player in the world, if you're playing with something that's
Speaker 1: got that's too stiff and too heavy, again, if you're
Speaker 1: a slicer of the golf ball, the golf club, the
Speaker 1: club head has no chance to catch up and close
Speaker 1: itself without you having to do something with your hands
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: I mean not enough people ever think about like letting
Speaker 2: the club close.
Speaker 1: So but technology, now, the shaft technology in the last
Speaker 1: I think in the last five years, the way that
Speaker 1: you know, the auto flex shaft some of these really
Speaker 1: really ultra light shaft that have some kick at the bottom.
Speaker 1: When we talk about flex points and kick points, we're
Speaker 1: always hearing that there are shafts that are kind of
Speaker 1: low spin shafts, and then there are shafts that are
Speaker 1: going to have a little bit more high spin. What
Speaker 1: does that mean in Layman's term for the average golf
Speaker 1: if somebody says, hey, that's a low spinning shaft, or
Speaker 1: that's a high spinning shaft, what does that mean?
Speaker 2: So basically what that means is a shaft is broken
Speaker 2: down into three categories, so like the tip, the middle,
Speaker 2: and then the butt. So where that is flexing for
Speaker 2: that particular shaft is going to determine more or less
Speaker 2: on paper what that's going to be higher, launch, loading, spin,
Speaker 2: all those things. So generally a stiffer tip is going
Speaker 2: to be lower spinning than something with a softer tip.
Speaker 2: But the biggest thing that plays into that too is
Speaker 2: for the where you need the flex is going to
Speaker 2: be how hard you load the golf club. So somebody
Speaker 2: that loads it super hard is not generally going to
Speaker 2: have super success with a off their mudded shaft. They're
Speaker 2: going to lose awareness of where that club head is.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I don't think people listening with
Speaker 1: shaft technology realize some of the best long drivers in
Speaker 1: the world are not using stiff shafts. I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean Kyle Berkshire's shaft isn't what you would think it
Speaker 1: would be. Bryson has talked a lot about that. Bryson
Speaker 1: has said, listen, you know when I was doing long drive,
Speaker 1: I was trying to get as whippy shafts as I
Speaker 1: could get. You wouldn't think that that would be the
Speaker 1: case because you would think, at the speed he's trying
Speaker 1: to hit the golf ball, he's going to need as
Speaker 1: much stability at the bottom. But the long drive guys,
Speaker 1: they're trying to get as much load and they put
Speaker 1: a lot of force on the handle, so they need
Speaker 1: the golf club to be a little bit more flexible
Speaker 1: and have that kick at the bottom.
Speaker 2: Definitely, they're looking for that rubber band effect at the bottom,
Speaker 2: which is what just letting that club head passed the
Speaker 2: hands at impact, and if the tip is too stiff,
Speaker 2: that thing is never going to pass.
Speaker 1: When we hear another term that I hear a lot
Speaker 1: of people that is out there is are we going
Speaker 1: to tip the tour? They're always talking about if if
Speaker 1: a player on tour is going to get a driver
Speaker 1: shaft made, the builder is the first thing he's going
Speaker 1: to say, are we are we? Are we tipping this
Speaker 1: or are we not? What does tipping the shaft mean
Speaker 1: from a driver standpoint? And what is it? What effect
Speaker 1: does it have?
Speaker 2: So tipping the driver's shaft is just basically going to
Speaker 2: be when they install it, they're going to cut extra
Speaker 2: off the tip. So basically, when a manufacturer sells us
Speaker 2: a shaft, they say, hey, you want to cut half
Speaker 2: an inch off the tip, and then from there it's
Speaker 2: we're adding stiffness to that tip section and then the
Speaker 2: rest is cut from the butt.
Speaker 1: So the more you cut off the tip at the bottom,
Speaker 1: the stiffer.
Speaker 2: The stiffer it's going to get, okay, and then we
Speaker 2: can cut off the butt just for the length, but
Speaker 2: it's not really changing the profile of the shaft.
Speaker 1: Where's a grip is if we take any length. So
Speaker 1: let's say someone's got a forty five degree driver and
Speaker 1: they want to get a little bit more control, role
Speaker 1: go to forty three. You could cut off the top
Speaker 1: and it's not really going to change the shaft profile
Speaker 1: at the bottom or in the middle on how it.
Speaker 2: Works, correct, It's just going to change that length. But
Speaker 2: tipping it will change how that shaft affects.
Speaker 1: So obviously all of the bombers, guys like Gary Woodland,
Speaker 1: all the guys with big speed they need they want
Speaker 1: to tip.
Speaker 2: They want to tip it.
Speaker 1: So if they need it stiff at the bottom.
Speaker 2: Yep, so they'll tip anywhere from an inch to two
Speaker 2: inches on most of those guys drivers.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: But a lot of the amateurs are like, hey, you
Speaker 2: know so and so's tipping it. Well, really, you're swinging
Speaker 2: fifteen miles per hour slower than he is. You don't
Speaker 2: need that shaft to be any stiffer than it is.
Speaker 1: So you helped me get a new driver and we
Speaker 1: worked on the shaft and one of the shafts you
Speaker 1: put me in that new Vanquish.
Speaker 2: From miss Specie.
Speaker 1: Okay, that type of shaft. I think everybody's building something
Speaker 1: like that in that range. Now, that type of shaft
Speaker 1: is doing what.
Speaker 2: So it's allowing the tip section to be softer than
Speaker 2: the rest of the shaft, allow players that do early
Speaker 2: extend all of those things get the clubhead to come
Speaker 2: through the impact zone.
Speaker 1: Because that was something that in talking to Dave Phillips,
Speaker 1: who've had on the podcast before from the titleist performance,
Speaker 1: that they were looking at, you know, when that new
Speaker 1: Vanquish came out, they were you know, Jimmy Walker was
Speaker 1: crushing that thing.
Speaker 2: He was playing the auto flex.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was playing the auto flex and he was
Speaker 1: crushing that. He's got a lot of early extension. But
Speaker 1: the way that club loads and the way it comes
Speaker 1: into the ball, Dave was saying, it was almost like
Speaker 1: it was an anti thrust fixer. You could still thrust,
Speaker 1: but if you've got a shaft at the bottom thrust,
Speaker 1: meaning when we when we when we're setting up to
Speaker 1: the golf ball, if you think about where your lower
Speaker 1: body is on the downswing, if the pelvis is moving
Speaker 1: closer to the ball you're extending, then the upper body
Speaker 1: has to go back. So there are guys that do
Speaker 1: that Jimmy Walker is one of them. So a little
Speaker 1: bit more kick at the bottom again helps square the
Speaker 1: club face up at the bottom without you feeling it's
Speaker 1: the player like you have to do it so much
Speaker 1: with your hands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily feel soft in any means,
Speaker 2: but allowing that to close is huge for a lot
Speaker 2: a lot of golfers to gain distance and ball speed
Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, spin it lass.
Speaker 1: And I think since the auto flex came out, you
Speaker 1: know auto Flex, Korean right technology, you know pink shaft,
Speaker 1: you know twelve and what's it like? You got to
Speaker 1: you gotta get a new mortgage for your house to
Speaker 1: get one of these shafts, right, But what I think
Speaker 1: the market and all the manufacturers have gone, okay, let's
Speaker 1: take that and let's put a version of that in
Speaker 1: our lineup. So I think all the shaft manufacturers are
Speaker 1: making something that's going to have a little bit more
Speaker 1: kick at the bottom, so that if you are someone
Speaker 1: that needs distance, or you are someone that needs that
Speaker 1: face to close, that would be what if you're that player? Right,
Speaker 1: what model of shafts should be players be looking at
Speaker 1: if they want, if they if they're slicing it if
Speaker 1: they want a little bit of distance and they want
Speaker 1: that bottom part of the shaft at the bottom to
Speaker 1: square up. Give me some names that that shafts that
Speaker 1: people could look at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's definitely definitely different for any kind of speed.
Speaker 2: But in that average golfer range, you can go auto
Speaker 2: flex Missubgie Vanquish, like a C six red from Missubichi Chemical.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of good options. I mean, each line
Speaker 2: has a good option. And generally, when you look at
Speaker 2: a shaft wall, the ones that are colored in red
Speaker 2: are generally going to mean that throughout the whole shaft
Speaker 2: manufacturing thing. So anything that's red is generally gonna be
Speaker 2: a little softer. That tip's gonna close all those things.
Speaker 1: Obviously, all the tour players, Brooks plays the Black Blacks
Speaker 1: seventy X, I mean, that's as stiff as I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's funny Brooks has got a really stiff driver.
Speaker 1: I mean, DJ's use that forever, right, I Mean, that's
Speaker 1: just there are players that play with the same shaft
Speaker 1: all the time, and then there are players that kind
Speaker 1: of move around. I think in DJ's case, it's just
Speaker 1: I think it's a comfort thing more than anything else.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I think it's he's Brooks is the same, right. I
Speaker 1: mean you could try and get him out of the
Speaker 1: driver shaft that he was working with, right. Brooks will
Speaker 1: mess around with lofts and heads and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: but the one thing that he will not budge on
Speaker 1: is the shaft. And anytime any of the manufacturers that
Speaker 1: he'd been with have talked to him about, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe we try a little bit different shaft and stuff,
Speaker 1: and he always says the same thing. The shaft in
Speaker 1: my driver has won me five majors. I'm not changing it, okay,
Speaker 1: But for the average golfers it's almost the opposite. Don't
Speaker 1: be afraid to go try. So what questions from a
Speaker 1: driver fitting? For everyone listening if they are going to
Speaker 1: get fit, what question should they be asking you guys
Speaker 1: as the fitters. So I think that's something that's massively important.
Speaker 1: I've said that before. I gave a pod I think
Speaker 1: last year on how to take a golf lesson as
Speaker 1: the player what you should be asking and looking for
Speaker 1: from the instructor. So for everyone listening, if they are
Speaker 1: going to get club fit, what are the questions they
Speaker 1: need to be asking the club fitter.
Speaker 2: So one big question is, hey, what is actually achievable
Speaker 2: for what I'm putting in is a lot of people
Speaker 2: want to get that super extra distance, but really that
Speaker 2: speed that they're at, they're maxing it out. So at
Speaker 2: that point we need to get forgiveness and be realistic that, hey,
Speaker 2: I might not gain all the yards, but hitting something
Speaker 2: more in the middle consistently across at the course of
Speaker 2: the round is huge. Another one is, hey, what is
Speaker 2: a good spin rate for my speed range? And then
Speaker 2: a good Another thing that a lot of people don't
Speaker 2: think about is set makeups the board is like, just
Speaker 2: because hey, go into a three wood, Hey we're going
Speaker 2: to hit it further, we might not just because the
Speaker 2: five wood launching higher, spinning higher.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's the next part of this. So and
Speaker 1: I think the most forgotten part of club fitting are
Speaker 1: from where the irons end and the driver begins. So
Speaker 1: whatever your last iron in your bag is and then
Speaker 1: where you are in your driver, what is in between there?
Speaker 1: I think for everyone listening that is looking to improve
Speaker 1: their scores, hybrids, five woods, three woods, to me, that's
Speaker 1: a lot of low hanging fruit because I see a
Speaker 1: lot of players that their putters are good, the wedges,
Speaker 1: the irons, the driver, but what they've kind of got
Speaker 1: in between is just garbage and it's not not helping them.
Speaker 1: So again average goal for loft wise, and the modern
Speaker 1: three woods, you know this, the longer the hitter, the
Speaker 1: harder it is to find a three wood, because the
Speaker 1: three woods today go way too far, which you would
Speaker 1: think would be great. But like DJ says, they give
Speaker 1: him sometimes three woods and he's like, that goes as
Speaker 1: far as my driver. I have no possible way to
Speaker 1: use that because if I do try and hit it
Speaker 1: into a par five, I can't hold the green. So
Speaker 1: from a three wood standpoint, and again DJ's got a
Speaker 1: shit ton of loft on his three wood, but I
Speaker 1: see fifteen twenty handicappers have thirteen degrees three woods, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what what are you going to do with this?
Speaker 1: You're certainly not going to get in the air. So
Speaker 1: from a three wood standpoint, where do you think that
Speaker 1: you think most people have two They don't.
Speaker 2: Have enough loft in the three where they don't have
Speaker 2: enough loft, and a lot of people turn those three
Speaker 2: woods down too opening the face. I mean, you got
Speaker 2: to be able to launch it. So I mean a
Speaker 2: lot of the manufacturers this year did make three hls,
Speaker 2: which is gonna be like a sixteen sixteen and a
Speaker 2: half degree three wood versus a fifteen. But definitely a
Speaker 2: lot of amateur golfers come in with something that's twelve
Speaker 2: thirteen degrees and I'm like, that's really your driver.
Speaker 1: So with the three wood with the ball now being
Speaker 1: on the ground, not on the tee, so obviously, I
Speaker 1: think what everybody needs to realize is there are two
Speaker 1: swings in golf. Right there is the driver swing and
Speaker 1: there is the iron swing. The iron swing the ball
Speaker 1: is on the ground, you need to have an angle
Speaker 1: of attack to where the angle of attack is down.
Speaker 1: You're hitting down on the golf ball. Hitting down on
Speaker 1: it is going to get it up. When we hit
Speaker 1: a driver, we put it on a tee. If we
Speaker 1: hit down on that.
Speaker 2: It's still gonna go up.
Speaker 1: It's still gonna go up, but it's going to spin
Speaker 1: a lot. So with the driver, you're trying to hit
Speaker 1: up on it. And unfortunately, and I know you see this,
Speaker 1: I think I see over a year, I see more
Speaker 1: golfers have a driver swing with their irons. They don't
Speaker 1: take dibbots. They don't get the golf ball in the air,
Speaker 1: and then they have an iron swing with their drivers
Speaker 1: where they're skying it. They're hitting it off the top
Speaker 1: of the driver. With the driver, you're trying to swing up.
Speaker 1: With the iron, you're trying to swing down. But three
Speaker 1: woods Jordan are so hard for the average golfer to
Speaker 1: hit because I think they don't realize the golf balls
Speaker 1: on the ground if you try and swing up on it,
Speaker 1: it's not on a tee like the driver. Most people
Speaker 1: would be surprised that some of the best players in
Speaker 1: the world, and you know this, with the three wood,
Speaker 1: they take a little bit of a divot because they
Speaker 1: are hitting down on it. So if you don't have
Speaker 1: enough loft on your three wood and then you're trying
Speaker 1: to hit up on it and it's not on a tee,
Speaker 1: that is a recipe for top spin. Four hands basically
Speaker 1: barely get over the neck, so higher loft in the
Speaker 1: three wood.
Speaker 2: Don't be afraid to play a seven either. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you're going to go up in your three, then
Speaker 2: having a three, five and seven there can be some
Speaker 2: overlap there.
Speaker 1: So this.
Speaker 2: Don't be afraid to skip one.
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson currently has a seven wood and a nine
Speaker 1: wood in his back. Why because the irons that are
Speaker 1: replacing that he hits them so flat that he can't
Speaker 1: hold the green. So the nine wood in the seven
Speaker 1: wood allows him to come into greens softer and not
Speaker 1: have just low kind of head height bullets iron replacements
Speaker 1: handicap ranges to get. I mean, I don't have. The
Speaker 1: longest iron I have in my bag is a six iron, right,
Speaker 1: Because I've tested you and I have gone through this,
Speaker 1: You're like, dude, you hit this hybrid way more consistent
Speaker 1: than you hit the five hybrid way more consistent than
Speaker 1: you hit the iron. And you've told me, with the
Speaker 1: limited amount you have to practice and as little as
Speaker 1: you play, you need as much help as possible. So
Speaker 1: I have a five iron hybrid, I have a four iron.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about hybrids. What handicap range would you
Speaker 1: say for a player? Hey, bro, you need you need
Speaker 1: to take the ego out of this equation and we
Speaker 1: need to start to put more head covers in the
Speaker 1: bag for.
Speaker 2: You for sure. So that's that's a fine line for
Speaker 2: that breaking point of a lot of players, is hey,
Speaker 2: is it a five iron? Is it a six iron,
Speaker 2: where our descent angle starts to become below forty degrees,
Speaker 2: And that's the biggest deciding factor is once that gets flat,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna hold it on a green, so you
Speaker 2: might as well just take some loft. Get a hybrid.
Speaker 2: Center gravity is lower, it's going to be better out
Speaker 2: of the rough, more forgiving hit it higher, land it softer.
Speaker 1: Shaft wise, when we start going into hybrids, what do
Speaker 1: players need to be looking at with regards to what
Speaker 1: they're playing Obviously and their driver, their three, the other
Speaker 1: there are other woods, and then what they're playing in
Speaker 1: their irons.
Speaker 2: So I would say driver and fairwoods are going to
Speaker 2: be pretty consistent between those two. General we're going to
Speaker 2: go up and weight in our fairway woods, and then
Speaker 2: we're also going to go up and wait in our hybrids.
Speaker 2: But our hybrids are going to be more similar to
Speaker 2: our iron shafts throughout the bag, just because that is
Speaker 2: playing like a three or a four iron for most players.
Speaker 1: And again everyone that listens if you are hitting a hybrid,
Speaker 1: take a divot. It's basically, if you've got a hybrid
Speaker 1: in your bag, you need to play it like it's
Speaker 1: an iron. The same type philosophy. You don't need that.
Speaker 1: If you've got a hybrid in your in your bag,
Speaker 1: you do not need that golf bowl way up in
Speaker 1: your stance like you would with your three wood or
Speaker 1: your driver. It needs to be very similar to where
Speaker 1: it would be for an iron so that you can
Speaker 1: hit down on it. Iron technology, game improvement irons. It's
Speaker 1: so funny. There was I can't remember the fitter's name,
Speaker 1: but he was a longtime fitter out at a TPI
Speaker 1: and they had the Chinese national team in right, that
Speaker 1: the entire and the best kid on the Chinese national team.
Speaker 1: So they're fitting him for irons, and they're going through
Speaker 1: an interpreter, right, because the kid doesn't speak English, if
Speaker 1: you heard this story. So they're going through an interpreter.
Speaker 1: And this kid wants he wants a title. He wants
Speaker 1: the Adam Scott titleist blades, right, he wants I mean,
Speaker 1: he wants something that looks like it's from nineteen seventy one, right,
Speaker 1: because he's the best player, right, And they're trying to
Speaker 1: fit him into something that's got a little bit more
Speaker 1: of kind of like a cavity back thing like that,
Speaker 1: and he's going back and forth, and they're like, this
Speaker 1: is the one, and that's through the interpreter back to
Speaker 1: him and the kids getting more and more. So finally
Speaker 1: the fitter says to the interpreter, He's going to hit
Speaker 1: the golf ball. Bet what is the problem? And the kid,
Speaker 1: in perfect English says too much offset and the top
Speaker 1: line is too long, And the Fitter's like, now you
Speaker 1: speak English, because I'm trying to get you into something
Speaker 1: that's going to be a little bit more forgiving. So
Speaker 1: my point around that story is, I think everybody wants
Speaker 1: to play a blade. They want something that does and
Speaker 1: have a lot of offset, that doesn't look clunky and big.
Speaker 1: What are the advantages versus a forged blade type, you know,
Speaker 1: the type of iron that Rory uses, the type of
Speaker 1: iron that Scottie Scheffler DJ, I mean Brooks has gone
Speaker 1: to that Srixon cavity. But what is the advantage for
Speaker 1: everyone listening in game improvement irons? What does offset do?
Speaker 2: So offset is going to allow the player to close
Speaker 2: the club face quicker. So now that irons have gotten
Speaker 2: so so strong and loft compared to the stuff that
Speaker 2: those guys are playing.
Speaker 1: And that's the other thing that everybody lists the best
Speaker 1: players in the world want the golf clubs to go
Speaker 1: the shortest. They don't need the distance. They're not looking
Speaker 1: for rockets. I mean, I've said to Ben Showman at Cobra.
Speaker 1: I've had them look at players and I say, hey,
Speaker 1: what if we get this iron in his head and
Speaker 1: he's like, he'd hit that too far, have no ability
Speaker 1: to control the distance. And I'm thinking nobody thinks that
Speaker 1: that would be what a problem would be. So, but
Speaker 1: the average goal for needs that they need the forgiveness.
Speaker 1: Offset means what closure? Right, So the player is looking
Speaker 1: down at an iron, if the iron is offset, what
Speaker 1: are they going to see.
Speaker 2: They're going to see where the leading edge meets the hozzle.
Speaker 2: There's going to be a little bit of an angle there, right.
Speaker 1: So it's ball designed through impact again, same thing we're
Speaker 1: talking about with the weights in the driver to get
Speaker 1: that toe of the driver to close at the moment
Speaker 1: of contacte gapping in irons. What should people be looking
Speaker 1: at from their nine iron to their five iron in
Speaker 1: an ideal world? What would we like.
Speaker 2: To see In an ideal world, We're going to see
Speaker 2: anywhere from twelve to fifteen yards differencing gap between each iron.
Speaker 2: So they're I mean, if we're getting to where you're
Speaker 2: hitting your seven iron and your nine iron only ten
Speaker 2: yards apart, we either got a loft problem or we
Speaker 2: just need to change.
Speaker 1: It shaft wise for irons. Again, what are we looking
Speaker 1: at for the regular golfer? What are some of the
Speaker 1: things that they want to stay away from from an
Speaker 1: iron fit shaft wise?
Speaker 2: So a big thing now, like we said that with
Speaker 2: all the clubs getting so so strong, you still have
Speaker 2: to be able to launch it and spin it. So
Speaker 2: a lot of players are now able to play a
Speaker 2: lighter shaft. It's higher launching, higher spinning just because those
Speaker 2: heads are so strong, But you still have to be
Speaker 2: able to hit it high. So just because they're you know,
Speaker 2: you're playing a stiff driver shaft, doesn't mean you have
Speaker 2: to play a stiff iron shaft. Just the technology in
Speaker 2: that graph height, we can make it so light but
Speaker 2: so so stable you might as well take the clubhead
Speaker 2: speed when you can get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's so when players are looking at the
Speaker 1: difference between steal and graphite in their irons, what are
Speaker 1: the advantages and what are the gains and the wins
Speaker 1: that going to graphite could do for a player.
Speaker 2: So by going to graphit, we're able to move where
Speaker 2: that shaft is kicking a lot easier. But I think you're.
Speaker 1: Talking about with the driver at the bottom with the
Speaker 1: tipping conversation, right.
Speaker 2: So by moving that weight, the flexibility to move that
Speaker 2: weight with graphite, we can really, you know, fine tune
Speaker 2: where it's distributed and where it's going to kick.
Speaker 1: Cavity back irons versus more blade irons. Is there a
Speaker 1: cutoff for you on handicap range or is it player dependent?
Speaker 2: I would say it's definitely player dependent. But we are
Speaker 2: seeing more and more players get away from those traditional blades.
Speaker 2: With all the new models that we have, they are
Speaker 2: beginning to look better in that player's cavity players distance.
Speaker 1: I do think that all the manufacturers, you know, I've
Speaker 1: been with Kroba for a long time now, I love
Speaker 1: their quit I've said to the guy, the game improvement
Speaker 1: stuff is starting to look more and more like the
Speaker 1: player's irons, and that's I think that's huge, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Because as golfers, again we're massively influenced by television. We
Speaker 1: want to be using the stuff that our heroes are using.
Speaker 1: But you've just got to be careful in going down
Speaker 1: that rabbit hole of having an iron in your bag.
Speaker 1: That again, I always say that in golf lessons, we're
Speaker 1: trying to improve the miss. You guys in the club
Speaker 1: fitting world are trying to do the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: You're fitting for the miss, not the good shot. And
Speaker 1: that is a big thing that I think is important
Speaker 1: for everyone. Everyone thinks they're going to go into a
Speaker 1: club fitting and go, Okay, my good shots are going
Speaker 1: to get better. You guys are coming to it from
Speaker 1: the angle the same angle that I'm coming to it
Speaker 1: from a golf lesson. No, no, we're going to try
Speaker 1: and make your bad shots better. We're not gonna try
Speaker 1: and make your good shots better.
Speaker 2: I would say that's the biggest thing that we see
Speaker 2: as a player will be in front of us and
Speaker 2: they won't accept their true miss, and you and I
Speaker 2: both look at it and we say, hey, you're going
Speaker 2: to hit it this way every time, but they're like, no,
Speaker 2: I really actually miss it to the left. But you
Speaker 2: know they're across it with a wide open face and
Speaker 2: it's slicing. So it's really just accepting what you do
Speaker 2: and making the most of it.
Speaker 1: Parents that are listening for kids, golf equipment is expensive
Speaker 1: that and I'm sure you get a lot of these
Speaker 1: those those juniors that are in the they were playing
Speaker 1: golf clubs that were too long and too heavy. They
Speaker 1: got into kind of that US kids range of golf clubs.
Speaker 1: But now they're looking to get out of that. I
Speaker 1: see so many young juniors playing with golf clubs that
Speaker 1: are just so damn long for them, Jordan, and because
Speaker 1: they're so damn long, they're too stiff, and then we
Speaker 1: start to see their bodies break down because of the
Speaker 1: golf clubs. When we're looking at players, parents especially, how
Speaker 1: do we future proof the fit So your son is
Speaker 1: trying to get out of kids clubs and get into
Speaker 1: more real, regular golf equipment. But they're going to be
Speaker 1: growing there. If they're going to keep going, they're probably
Speaker 1: going to need another set of golf clubs in the
Speaker 1: next two to maybe three years. How do we future
Speaker 1: proof golf clubs for juniors so that they can give
Speaker 1: the parents a little leeway financially, so that they don't
Speaker 1: have to go spend money for a new set of
Speaker 1: irons this year and then go, Okay, my son grew,
Speaker 1: I gotta go spend another boatload of money on another
Speaker 1: set irons.
Speaker 2: So one way would be just when they're moving that
Speaker 2: jump from the kids clubs up to the new ones,
Speaker 2: make sure you get into a good head because we
Speaker 2: can't take that good head and then shift it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so then you're not out you know, the full set
Speaker 2: every time. And chefts, I mean you're only gonna need
Speaker 2: six or eight of them, so moving across that. But
Speaker 2: once we're into a good head, chaft weight is huge
Speaker 2: for those kids, Like, don't put them in something too stiff,
Speaker 2: don't cut Dad's clubs down because that's just changing the
Speaker 2: whole flex point of that shaft and they're gonna have
Speaker 2: to alter their swing at the end of the day
Speaker 2: to fix that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's something that I've seen more
Speaker 1: junior golfers get injured and be on not playing because
Speaker 1: they're playing with golf equipment. At one they asked for
Speaker 1: for Christmas because Tiger Rory, DJ John Ram they use that.
Speaker 1: They don't make a lot of the stuff that the
Speaker 1: players on tour using junior sets like that, they don't
Speaker 1: make them, so then it's hard to get John Rahm's
Speaker 1: driver when you're five to one and you weigh one
Speaker 1: hundred and something pounds. Yeah, and you're I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you over the course of the year how
Speaker 1: many junior golfers I see using forty five inch drivers.
Speaker 2: And at the same point, they don't have enough speed
Speaker 2: to play most of those products because they're not creating
Speaker 2: the angles to make it spin and launch high enough.
Speaker 2: So by going to that, it's yeah, you're just setting
Speaker 2: yourself back more trying to play the products that they play.
Speaker 1: Lastly, wedge fitting to me, that is again low hanging fruit.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of players using wedges where the
Speaker 1: bounce configuration. Bob vok At titleist was the first one
Speaker 1: to kind of come up with the term of digger
Speaker 1: versus slider, but digger being more back in your stance,
Speaker 1: hitting more down on it like a bump and roll slider.
Speaker 1: Where the tour players are playing closely Moan Augusta type
Speaker 1: runoffs into the grain, they're playing the ball more neutral,
Speaker 1: so they're sliding the club more on it. Bounce configuration.
Speaker 1: If you are going to be someone that's going to
Speaker 1: be more of a bump and run back in your stance,
Speaker 1: you need more bounce or less.
Speaker 2: Bounce, so more bounce there. So what bounce is going
Speaker 2: to do is bounce is going to help you exit
Speaker 2: the term. So for that player that is very steep,
Speaker 2: we need to get out of the turf.
Speaker 1: So that twelve to fourteen range. And then if you
Speaker 1: are someone that's a little bit more of a competitive player,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want give me a wedge that is from
Speaker 1: a bounce standpoint, that is that can do both. That
Speaker 1: would be a good kind of starting point for a
Speaker 1: player that's not going to be a ton of bounce,
Speaker 1: but it's not going to be little What range is
Speaker 1: that for you?
Speaker 2: So that one would be anywhere from an eight to
Speaker 2: a ten bounce And obviously each manufacturer has a different
Speaker 2: soul for that is, so you can kind of have
Speaker 2: a little bit of bounce. A good example would be
Speaker 2: a vokey like eight M. It's going to have that
Speaker 2: little bit of crescent soul where it's going to have bounce,
Speaker 2: but give you that versatility to open it up with
Speaker 2: the trailing edge relief and really make the most best
Speaker 2: of both worlds there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I and then gapping with wedges, I mean again,
Speaker 1: I come in sometimes and I look, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, who fits you for this setup when we're
Speaker 1: looking at so give me a range for the So,
Speaker 1: if you've got a lobwedge in your bag, lob wedges
Speaker 1: are going to be anywhere between.
Speaker 2: Fifty eight fifty eight to sixty two sixty two.
Speaker 1: Does anybody that is a regular high handicapped golfer need
Speaker 1: to be above sixty degrees in the loft?
Speaker 2: No, because that's going to only create a bigger gap
Speaker 2: between our pitching wedge in there. Right.
Speaker 1: So then so if you're sixty, what are we looking at,
Speaker 1: are you, guys? Because the four kind of degree increments.
Speaker 1: So if you're sixty, the sand wedge should be fifty six.
Speaker 1: Then the gap wedge should.
Speaker 2: Be generally fifty two or fifty right, depending on where
Speaker 2: your pitching wedge's at. But a lot of these newer
Speaker 2: iron sets, you have to be careful because our pitching
Speaker 2: wedges are getting so strong they're going to pack two
Speaker 2: more wedges in before you get to the gap wedge.
Speaker 1: So, like most of the new stuff in game improvement,
Speaker 1: pitching wedges degree wise are at what.
Speaker 2: Now forty three forty four, So from there to get
Speaker 2: to sixty, we have to do it within a reasonable
Speaker 2: amount of wedges without having you have too many that
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, which one do I hit for this?
Speaker 1: And then you have to start saying, okay, well, then
Speaker 1: I need to look at taking other clubs out of
Speaker 1: my back for the for the regular average goal, for
Speaker 1: how many wedges do you think would be beneficial for
Speaker 1: them to have in their back. So starting at the
Speaker 1: pitching wedge and going from there.
Speaker 2: So generally I would go pitching wedge and then keep
Speaker 2: a gap wedge with your iron set that's going to
Speaker 2: be anywhere from forty eight to fifty two, and then
Speaker 2: follow up with maybe a fifty four to fifty eight.
Speaker 2: So really four wedges across the board is going to
Speaker 2: be suffice for most If you.
Speaker 1: Go fifty, you're keeping within that four degree range.
Speaker 2: Yep, fourty five degrees is great.
Speaker 1: Turf interaction with wedges. I think that's one of the
Speaker 1: main areas that I see that the average golfer just
Speaker 1: struggles so much with is the way the wedge is
Speaker 1: interacting with the ground. They're already steep on it, they're
Speaker 1: already hitting down on it. Talk to me about how
Speaker 1: the sole configuration, because every manufacturer now across the board
Speaker 1: is going to have a different not only different bounces,
Speaker 1: but different soul configurations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so grind options are going to give the different
Speaker 2: players versatility to really match that to their angles that
Speaker 2: they're creating through the turf. So whether you need trailing
Speaker 2: edge relief, heel and tow relief, or center gravity that's
Speaker 2: higher or lower. And they do make game improvement wedges
Speaker 2: too that a lot of people shy away from. They're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get as much spin, but going
Speaker 2: to that product, it really fits how you deliver the
Speaker 2: golf club is going to make around the green so
Speaker 2: much easier.
Speaker 1: So if you could change you only had what So
Speaker 1: if a player came to you, and obviously this would
Speaker 1: never happen, but if a player came to you and
Speaker 1: you watch them hit golf balls and you said, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: watching them do everything that they're doing in their golf swing,
Speaker 1: I can change the irons, I can change the driver,
Speaker 1: I can change the fairway, would make up change the
Speaker 1: wedges if they said okay, you'd only change one. What
Speaker 1: would be your choice to say, hey, you want to
Speaker 1: knock some shots off your game, let's change this.
Speaker 2: I would say the irons are probably going to have
Speaker 2: the biggest effect there because most people are playing steel
Speaker 2: shafts all those things. So really naturally thought you were
Speaker 2: going to say driver.
Speaker 1: I really thought you were going to.
Speaker 2: Say no, you'd be surprised, like and I am.
Speaker 1: Surprised by that because Mike, now that now that I think,
Speaker 1: and here's the other thing, you're going to hit a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot more iron shots than you aren't
Speaker 1: going to.
Speaker 2: Hit one hundred percent. I mean you figure almost every
Speaker 2: hole you're hitting at least one. And then Part three
Speaker 2: is even just to launch it high and spin it
Speaker 2: enough to you know, have it land and not hit
Speaker 2: on the front and roll off the back. That's the
Speaker 2: most deceiving part. And how far your distances actually are
Speaker 2: for the players. A lot of players will say, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, I hit it one hundred and seventy yards
Speaker 2: and then we get up onto a part three and
Speaker 2: it's one seventy one to carry the water. That ball's
Speaker 2: not getting over the water. So really realizing Carrie versus
Speaker 2: total is huge for a lot of players.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I think that's that's really really great stuff.
Speaker 1: If people wanted to come check out truspect, where do
Speaker 1: they go?
Speaker 2: So I would go to our website. We are across
Speaker 2: the US. There's five locations here in Florida. So if
Speaker 2: you ever find yourself here here dot com, respect dot com.
Speaker 1: Anybody wants to come get club fitted at the at
Speaker 1: my place here at the Floridian. Jordan is here. Jordan,
Speaker 1: thanks for talking to us. And uh listen, man, you've
Speaker 1: you've helped me a lot for as little as I
Speaker 1: play golf. One of the things that you did we tested,
Speaker 1: going back to the reason why I use one lengths,
Speaker 1: the Cobra one lengths. I mean, we've gone through this,
Speaker 1: We've tested everything that all the new stuff from Cobra,
Speaker 1: the one lengths for me, they work for me. They're
Speaker 1: based off of what my body does, what my body. Listen.
Speaker 1: I'd love to use the irons Ricky Fowler uses. I'd
Speaker 1: love the black I mean those ones that he came
Speaker 1: out with a coup. I mean, I love I get
Speaker 1: all the cool stuff, right, I get it all and
Speaker 1: it looks cool and I want to use it so bad.
Speaker 1: But I've got the new Cobra one length dark speeds
Speaker 1: a lot of offset and it helps me hit the golf.
Speaker 1: Ball more solid, and listen, my ego is very very small,
Speaker 1: you know that. What I just want to hit it
Speaker 1: straighter and I just want to hit it further. So
Speaker 1: everyone listening, don't be afraid to get club fit.
Speaker 2: Thanks Jordan, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: So some really good stuff there from Jordan Patrick from
Speaker 1: TRUSPEC and I think we got into a lot of
Speaker 1: good talks about a lot of different subjects there. But
Speaker 1: get club fit. I mean, if you're using golf clubs
Speaker 1: that you've just bought, that you were given, someone gave
Speaker 1: you as a gift, they're not helping you. I mean
Speaker 1: you have to get I mean, it's like winning the
Speaker 1: lot of If someone buys you a set of golf
Speaker 1: clubs and just gives them to you, that they're going
Speaker 1: to work for you. If you are serious about improving
Speaker 1: your game, if you were serious about getting better, if
Speaker 1: you're serious about lowering your handicap, one of the easiest
Speaker 1: ways to do that is to get equipment that is
Speaker 1: fitted for you and your game by someone like Jordan
Speaker 1: that has the experience and the knowledge and that can
Speaker 1: help you get the right equipment. It really really does
Speaker 1: make a massive, massive difference. I want to thank everyone
Speaker 1: for listening some of it. Butch comes to you every Wednesday.
Speaker 1: We will see you next week.