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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, October twenty second,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am

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Speaker 1: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm

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Speaker 1: in LA He's in New York, and vriighty has reporters

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Speaker 1: around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk with Variety's Brent Laying about the future of

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Speaker 1: the Sundance Film Festival as it prepares for its final

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Speaker 1: edition in Park City, Utah in January. And we'll hear

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Speaker 1: from Joe Otterson about why old fashioned board games like Monopoly, Clue,

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Speaker 1: and Catan are suddenly hot properties for TV development. Will

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Speaker 1: any of them pass go? Joe has some thoughts on that.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, here are a few

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Speaker 1: headlines just in that you need to know. Netflix's third

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Speaker 1: quarter numbers sent the markets on a seesaw yesterday. First,

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Speaker 1: the stock was down on a revenue miss, then it

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Speaker 1: spiked on the strength of K pop Demon Hunters and

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Speaker 1: the color commentary from the conference call. The bottom line

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Speaker 1: is Netflix is projecting eight point five billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: free cash flow for twenty twenty five. The House of

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Speaker 1: Ted Sarandos and Greg Peters is on a solid foundation.

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Speaker 1: In other streaming news, that comes as no surprise, HBO

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Speaker 1: Max is hiking its monthly fees across the board by

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Speaker 1: a dollar to two dollars a month, depending on your plan,

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Speaker 1: and that's effective immediately. Gen Z wants more animation and

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Speaker 1: less sex on the screen. Those are among the conclusions

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Speaker 1: highlighted in the annual Teens and Screens Survey conducted by

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Speaker 1: UCLA's Center for Scholars and Storytellers. A survey of fifteen

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Speaker 1: hundred Americans ages ten to twenty four found that nearly

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Speaker 1: half of those they prefer animation to live action content,

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Speaker 1: and more than sixty percent say they want to see

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Speaker 1: romantic relationships on screen that are more about friendship and

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Speaker 1: less about coitus. A bunch more interesting insights and charts

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Speaker 1: are in the story from my colleague Andrew McGowan. All

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Speaker 1: of these stories and so much more can be found

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Speaker 1: on Variety dot com. Right now, now we turn to

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Speaker 1: conversations with Variety journalists about news and trends in show business.

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Speaker 1: On Tuesday, the Sundance Film Festival announced plans to pay

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Speaker 1: tribute to its founder, Robert Redford at the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: sixth edition of the festival in January. That will no

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Speaker 1: doubt be a heartfelt salute to a seminal force in

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Speaker 1: American film. Brent Lang weighs in on the future of

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Speaker 1: Sundance as it heads into its final outing in Park

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Speaker 1: City before moving to Boulder, Colorado in twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: Brent Lang, thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk Sundance. It's never too early to start talking Sundance.

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Speaker 1: The Sundance Film Festival today announced to no one's surprise

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Speaker 1: that they will have a tribute to the founder of

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Speaker 1: the institute and the festival, the incredible artist Robert Redford,

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Speaker 1: who died last month. That will undoubtedly be extremely heartfelt.

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Speaker 1: And of course this is coming as Sundance gets ready

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Speaker 1: to move. This will be the last edition in Park

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Speaker 1: City after forty plus years, and they will move in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven to Boulder, Colorado. So let me ask you, Brent,

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Speaker 1: Sundance says. We've been reporting for the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: especially post pandemic, has had a bit of an identity crisis.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that we will see a groundswell of

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Speaker 1: people coming for the last edition in Park City in January?

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Speaker 2: I do. I think that a lot of people will

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Speaker 2: actually come out, largely in a way to say goodbye

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Speaker 2: to a place that's meant so much to this business,

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Speaker 2: to this industry. And you know, it's really impossible to

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Speaker 2: think of Sundance and not think of Park City, of

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Speaker 2: its main street, its iconic mountain, ranges of huddling together

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Speaker 2: in the snow, waiting in long lines, waiting to go

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Speaker 2: to that hot movie, feeling that buzz. In a way,

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Speaker 2: Park City is a terrible place to have a film festival.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to get to, it's expensive, it's cold, there's

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Speaker 2: ice all over the place. People are constantly slipping and falling.

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Speaker 2: But that's also what makes it so magical that you

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Speaker 2: do have to make this great effort to go there,

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Speaker 2: that you have to literally go to the top of

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Speaker 2: the mountain to see this amazing art form that so

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Speaker 2: many people love.

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Speaker 1: What are you thinking is going to be the direction

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Speaker 1: for Sundance in its future as it goes through this

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Speaker 1: big transformation.

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Speaker 2: Next year will be celebratory year, a kind of acknowledgment

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Speaker 2: of the storied pass that Sundance has had. But as

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Speaker 2: part of that, there are going to be some really

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Speaker 2: difficult questions being asked about Sundance and its future because

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Speaker 2: in many ways, the mission of Sundance has never been

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Speaker 2: more vital, which is to support e merging artists, to

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Speaker 2: give them a leg up, to give them a platform

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Speaker 2: to share their work, because it's harder and harder for

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Speaker 2: these people to make a living and to find distribution

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Speaker 2: platforms that pay them in a meaningful way. And yet

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Speaker 2: I think the business apparatus around the independent film industry

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Speaker 2: has never been more challenged. You had something of a

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Speaker 2: sugar high that happened in the last decade or so

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Speaker 2: where a lot of streamers came in, There were these

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Speaker 2: streaming wars, and they really really needed content and they

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Speaker 2: came to Sundance they bought a lot of it, and

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Speaker 2: the prices for this went up. That put a lot

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Speaker 2: of pressure on those true independent film distributors who ended

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Speaker 2: up in some cases overpaying for films in a way

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Speaker 2: that they never could really get their money back in

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Speaker 2: a more traditional theatrical ecosystem, and so it wasn't sustainable

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Speaker 2: and in fact it has not been sustained, and what

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Speaker 2: you're seeing is that it is taking longer for movies

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Speaker 2: to sell. They are selling for less money. A lot

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Speaker 2: of these streamers have gone into producing their own content.

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Speaker 2: The documentary business had a really good run there. That

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Speaker 2: business has completely collapsed, particularly as streamers have decided to

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Speaker 2: really avoid political documentaries, which was something that Sundance was

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Speaker 2: known for highlighting. So I think as the fortunes of

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Speaker 2: the independent film business have shifted, so have sundances fortunes.

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Speaker 2: And like so many of these film festivals today, it's

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Speaker 2: facing some existential questions that it needs to answer. And

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Speaker 2: part of the reason it moved to Boulder, and they

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Speaker 2: will admit this, is that they got a better deal.

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Speaker 2: They're getting more support, more financial support, and they were

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Speaker 2: not able to make it work on Park City.

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Speaker 1: Inning I know that at times they have wrestled with

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Speaker 1: the whole big money influx the sponsors. At times they've

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Speaker 1: taken steps to curb the level of sponsorship in Park City.

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Speaker 1: With the move to Boulder, which is kind of a

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Speaker 1: natural reset, do you think that they will do any

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Speaker 1: efforts to curb some of the let's call it spectacle

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Speaker 1: that has grown up around Sundance.

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Speaker 2: I know that Redford actually really didn't like the festival

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Speaker 2: to be written about as a market. He felt that

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Speaker 2: was not the mission, that was not why he started

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Speaker 2: the film festival, and it was supposed to be for artists.

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Speaker 2: It was not supposed to be part of the business.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the reality is that brands go to Sundance

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Speaker 2: because there's a certain cool factor and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of big name stars who are part of these independent films.

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Speaker 2: Many of these films can only get financing if they

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Speaker 2: have big stars attached to them. The brands follow the stars,

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Speaker 2: and the stars go to Sundance, so with a inevitable progression,

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Speaker 2: if you will, and I think if Sundance would like

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Speaker 2: to curb branding, I'm not sure it will do that

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Speaker 2: initially because it really needs to make Boulder work. So

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Speaker 2: it needs to have a certain level of excitement and

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Speaker 2: sizzle and sex appeal to its new location.

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Speaker 1: I know it's so early, but do you think they'll

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Speaker 1: actually scale it up in the new city.

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Speaker 2: Well, apparently there are many different venues in Boulder that

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Speaker 2: can showcase movies. And another reason that Sentance was having

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Speaker 2: some difficulties with Park City was that certain theaters had

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Speaker 2: gone offline for various reasons, and there were fewer venues

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Speaker 2: to have premieres. I have heard that there's some concern

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Speaker 2: that there's not as much of a central gathering spot

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Speaker 2: in Boulder. I think that's something that Sundance will look

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Speaker 2: to address, to try to figure out a way to

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Speaker 2: really give the feeling of you are in some sort

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Speaker 2: of central area, you are with your community. I think

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Speaker 2: people are kind of interested in how they will do that.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of people are happy about the

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Speaker 2: move to Boulder because it had become just so prohibitively

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Speaker 2: expensive to go to Park City. I mean, it was

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Speaker 2: really really difficult to make the money work, and the

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Speaker 2: independent film business is a business that operates with very

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Speaker 2: very thin margins.

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Speaker 1: Right, That combination is very tough. Well, there is so

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Speaker 1: much to watch for. It does feel like that twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six Sundance will be filled with nostalgia. They announced

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday that there will be a legacy program devoted

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Speaker 1: to screenings of you know Sundance darlings like Little Miss Sunshine,

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Speaker 1: like Saw, which I did not remember was a Sundance movie,

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Speaker 1: Reginald Hudland's House Party, Ryan Flex Half Nelson and Barbara

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Speaker 1: Copple's documentary American Dream. All of these titles are bringing

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Speaker 1: back memories of headlines from Sundance's past. I remember when

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Speaker 1: Sundance made Steven Soderberg and sex. Salizes of Videotape was

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Speaker 1: the movie that catalyzed what Sundance could be in terms

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Speaker 1: of a launch pad for movies.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Sex Size of Videotape is what really put it

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Speaker 2: on the map, followed shortly thereafter by films like Reservoir

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Speaker 2: Dogs and Little Miss Sunshine, things like that. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we've definitely written a lot about the issues that Sundance faces,

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Speaker 2: and those issues are very real and they are very serious,

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Speaker 2: but there is a lot to celebrate. It's no exaggeration

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Speaker 2: to say that Sundance completely transformed the American film created

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Speaker 2: the independent film movement, and the world of cinema would

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Speaker 2: be a far less rich place where it not for Sundance,

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Speaker 2: And were it not for Robert.

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Speaker 1: Redford, well, there is a lot to look forward to.

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Speaker 1: One thing I can tell you, when you are going

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty seven to Bolder, you will lose about

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Speaker 1: fifteen hundred feet in altitude because Boulder is at about

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Speaker 1: fifty four hundred feet and Park City is almost at

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Speaker 1: seven thousand feet. Brent, as always, thank you for taking

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Speaker 1: the time today.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Now let's talk about the games people play. Joe Otterson,

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Speaker 1: Variety's TV News editor, discusses the recent wave of TV

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Speaker 1: development deals for vintage board games. Joe Otterson, thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining me today.

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Speaker 3: Always a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: We woke up Tuesday morning to the news that Netflix

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Speaker 1: has done a deal for the board game Catan. When

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Speaker 1: I have spent time in groups playing, it's a blast.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like, kind of like a lighter version

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Speaker 1: of risk. It moves along. But as you know, in journalism,

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Speaker 1: it's a law of journalism. Three is a trend, and

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Speaker 1: with Netflix alone, we now have three interesting examples of

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Speaker 1: truly board games, the most old fashioned kind of play

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Speaker 1: irls you'd sit around a board with your friends and

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Speaker 1: actually play.

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Speaker 3: I am hokens the whole nine.

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Speaker 1: I am an enormous fan and proponent of board games

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Speaker 1: and card games because they're so much fun in a group.

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Speaker 1: But clearly these are hot, hot properties for TV. Joe,

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Speaker 1: as always, I ask you what's going on here?

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Speaker 3: It's Hana is a massive, massive following it's been around,

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Speaker 3: you know, since the mid nineteen nineties, sold over forty

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Speaker 3: five million copies of the original game worldwide, not to

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Speaker 3: mention after the different expansions and variations that have come

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Speaker 3: out since then. But I think it's also just people.

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Speaker 3: They're always looking for the next ip. They're always looking

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Speaker 3: for the next thing that can get eyeballs on the screen.

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Speaker 1: These games, especially the more involved games like Monopoly, like Catan,

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Speaker 1: they are character rich. You know, in Monopoly, nothing started

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Speaker 1: until I got to be the little dog in.

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Speaker 3: My I really liked being the car in Monopoly.

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Speaker 1: So Monopoly is also one of the other games that

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Speaker 1: Netflix recently has licensed. What else is on their docket.

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Speaker 3: They're doing a competition series based on Monopoly. They're also

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Speaker 3: doing a competition series based on the board game Clue. Interestingly,

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Speaker 3: there's also a scripted series based on Clue that's out

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Speaker 3: in the marketplace, and it was reported a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: So just apparently Clue is a very hot commodity right now.

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Speaker 1: These are sturdy franchises that people know, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of things that are associated with childhood.

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Speaker 1: You have kind of a warm, fuzzy feeling. What are

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Speaker 1: some of the challenges though, of adapting that a game

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Speaker 1: that everybody kind of has their own relationship. How do

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Speaker 1: you make that work as a TV show in the

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Speaker 1: mass way that Netflix needs it to. Do you see

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Speaker 1: anything about the creative auspices or any signs of how

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Speaker 1: they're gonna make these shows stand out in the sea

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Speaker 1: of options that people have.

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Speaker 3: With Monopoly and Clue. I think that's very smart doing

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Speaker 3: them as some kind of a competition series, because ultimately,

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Speaker 3: that's what people love about these games, like you're playing

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Speaker 3: against your friend. A lot of these games, they don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily have characters or like defined conflicts necessarily like Katan. Ultimately,

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Speaker 3: if you are playing this as yourself, but you're also

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Speaker 3: trying to acquire resources in your trading and your building,

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Speaker 3: and while it is fun to play, I don't know

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Speaker 3: if that necessarily lends itself to a scripted series or

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Speaker 3: a movie unless you are to drastically change or add

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Speaker 3: to the story and introduce characters that maybe didn't exist

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Speaker 3: in the game. But then again, and you've also seen

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Speaker 3: stuff like Minecraft or Super Mario Brothers where they just

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Speaker 3: adapted almost exactly as it is and people loved it.

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Speaker 3: But I think in the case of Katan, I think

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Speaker 3: the thing people would really love is if you did

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Speaker 3: some sort of competition series route with it. Because people

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Speaker 3: love to play the game. They get very competitive with

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Speaker 3: the game. So if you had some sort of grand prize,

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Speaker 3: grand champion tournament of Catan out there and like this

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Speaker 3: life size board, like something crazy like that, I think

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Speaker 3: that's something that people would really get into. But how

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Speaker 3: you do that as a scripted show is above my

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Speaker 3: pay grade at this time.

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Speaker 1: Even just as you're talking like the product placement, the

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Speaker 1: integration opportunities, they practically right themselves. Another example of the

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Speaker 1: intertwining of the toy and game business with media because

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Speaker 1: Netflix also inked a deal with Hasbro and Mattel, basically

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Speaker 1: the two biggest toy makers in the world. They inked

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Speaker 1: a deal for K Pop Demon Hunter's merch toys, collectibles, plushies, games,

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Speaker 1: and role playing products. According to the announcement, this k

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Speaker 1: Pop Demon Hunters has been an enormous hit and clearly

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Speaker 1: they are looking to monetize every stitch of this animated film.

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Speaker 1: And it is very unusual that Hasbro and Mattel, which

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Speaker 1: are like two warring factions in toyland, very unusual that

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Speaker 1: the two would agree to do a joint deal, but

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Speaker 1: that's how much they want to get their hands on

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Speaker 1: KPE Pop, Demon Hunters Merch. Let me close Joe by

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Speaker 1: asking you going back to board games, what favorite board

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Speaker 1: game from your youth would you like to bring back?

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Speaker 1: I will submit I would watch the heck out of

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Speaker 1: Hi Ho Cherio. It's a blank slate. You could write

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Speaker 1: all kinds of storylines about the baskets and the trees,

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Speaker 1: and the farms and all the animals. I loved playing

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Speaker 1: that game with my son. What about you?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I was a huge fan of Risk when

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Speaker 3: I was a kid. My friends and I would play

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Speaker 3: that game for days on end. But the way things

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Speaker 3: are going nowadays, I think it's just a matter of

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Speaker 3: time before we get with Checkers TV series before too long,

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Speaker 3: or a new Checkers movie of some kind.

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Speaker 1: Knowing that you are a risk player says a lot

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Speaker 1: about why you're so strategic at covering this incredibly ever

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Speaker 1: expanding universe. Joe Otterson, thank you so much for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you as always.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for Variety's International Festival's team is heading next

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Speaker 1: to the Tokyo Film Festival. They'll produce the first of

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Speaker 1: three digital dailies starting October twenty eighth. As always, all

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Speaker 1: of that coverage can be found on Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: Mariah Carey is the choice for the twenty twenty six

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Speaker 1: Music Cares Person of the Year, which always coincides with

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Speaker 1: the Grammy Awards. Mimi's coronation by Music Cares and the

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Speaker 1: Recording Academy ought to be a memorable affair on January

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Speaker 1: thirtieth in downtown La Sinners is getting a special Imax

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Speaker 1: re release just in time for Halloween. Starting October thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Coogler's spooky drama will have a one week run

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Speaker 1: in the large format screens that are driving so much

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Speaker 1: box office these days. Before we go, congrats to Osca Yamagucci.

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Speaker 1: She's advanced to Senior Vice President of worldwide TV Production

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Speaker 1: Financing and US Film Sales for Canal Plus's Studio Canal division.

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Speaker 1: She's an La native now based in Paris. Yamagucci joins

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Speaker 1: Studio Canal in twenty fifteen. Thanks for listening. This episode

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Speaker 1: was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions

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Speaker 1: from Brent Lang and Joe Otterson Stick's Nick's hick Picks.

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Speaker 1: Please leave us a review at the podcast platform of

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Speaker 1: your choice, and please tune in tomorrow for another episode

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Speaker 1: of Daily Variety.