WEBVTT - Cities of Wood and Bone 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.160 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:14.920 Forward Thinking, say there, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.360 podcast that looks at the future and says, isn't it good? 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.560 Norwegian would? I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren Bogbon, and I'm 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.200 Joe McCormick. And today, yeah, what what what are we 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.320 doing today, Lauren? Today we're talking more about the building 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.440 materials of the future. We've threatened to do it, and 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.200 now we're making good on that threat. Yes. In April sixteen, 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.159 we published an episode called Building Materials of the Future 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.560 colin Bio Edition, um and uh yeah, so that we 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.400 would return to the topic of construction materials science at 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.320 some point, because in that episode we went, okay, we 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.040 we a went really deep into the problems with concrete 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:57.760 and cement, which are largely environmental um and and we 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.680 also went into a couple of potential alternatives to concrete, 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:05.080 including a materials built by bacteria or fungus, or materials 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.840 made in part with hemp or wool or seaweed or 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.520 animal blood. Oh yeah, the blood bricks, those are good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.399 I'm just thinking about bricks made of wool and Minecraft 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.560 right now, it's just it's always but then I have 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.920 to be fair. Minecraft is always close at the top 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.520 of my mind. Do they have bricks made of blood? No, 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:27.920 but you can't make brakes made out of wool. Did 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.600 we have the same conversation last time. I think we did, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.160 and I talked about how in a thunderstorm, if lightning 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.440 strikes your wool structure, it will catch on fire and 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.600 burned out. But at any rate, one of the things 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.000 that drove that discussion was that if you look into 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.679 how much it costs US an energy and and in 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.520 carbon emissions to make concrete and cement, it is not 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.800 a trivial amount. According to the U s Energy Information Administration, 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.360 if you choose to believe them, the cement industry accounted 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.360 for a quarter of one percent of national energy consumption 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.560 in the United States. And and that that sounds like 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.680 it's small. You're talking about one quarter of one percent, 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:12.320 but that's total energy consumption, which is a huge number. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.960 So it's a slightly less huge number. Yeah, And to 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.880 put it into another perspective that that accounts for like 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:26.520 ten times it's fair share of energy consumption compared to 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.160 its its output in terms of gross national goods and 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.920 services in the United States. Right, So it's economic value, right, 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.360 It's economic value is much lower than the energy value 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.120 we're pouring into it compared to other industries. And by 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.520 that very nature, that's what got us talking about, well, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.720 why are we still using it and are we looking 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.280 into anything else? Well, the reason we're still using it 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.120 is that it's it's the it's very useful. It's it's useful, 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:57.600 and there's an established industry, there's an established infrastructure for it. 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.359 So you know, there are reasons why we're using it. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.240 But there are a lot of reasons that people are 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:07.960 looking into alternatives because of this energy requirement, the fact 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:12.680 that the carbon emissions are pretty high, and that transporting 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:17.160 this stuff is not cheap either. And so so there 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.520 are lots of other materials that we didn't get around 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.160 to covering in the last episode, and let's get into 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.800 a few of them today. How about would would Well, wait, 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.200 we already use wood to build things, but this is 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.560 a little bit different, isn't it. We're gonna use more 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:35.920 wood better, future, would better? Better? Better? With more wood? Now, 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.240 please timber things. It sounds like I've just had a 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.520 complete brain event, but No, seriously, one of the building 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.400 materials of the future may very well just be be 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.720 would But well, I say, just, but that's not really true. 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.520 It's gonna be a new type of wood that goes 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.080 through a specific manufacturing process so that it increases its 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:01.760 strength and its resistance to stuff like fire, which is 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.720 important and allows it to hold a much heavier load 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:10.080 than say your traditional wooden house. Right, So the way 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:14.040 we use wooden construction today is for small scale construction 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.080 a couple of stories. Maybe there's no reason not to 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.800 build a wooden house. But once you're talking about high 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:26.760 density occupancy, that's where our big large scale industrial building 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:31.400 materials like steel, concrete, cement, Uh, they sort of take over. 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.039 Like when you're we're building tall buildings in an urban environment, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.239 and tall buildings and urban environments is kind of where 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.040 we're going with buildings. As we have talked on this 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.279 podcast about the floor. Yeah, there's a worldwide urbanization trend. 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.080 People are moving into the city's and packing them in right, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.560 and being able to build up helps take care of 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.640 this density problem as opposed to sprawling further and further 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.400 out from a city center, which can come with a 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.320 lot of different problems that we in Atlanta are very wilier. 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:05.120 With all that good infrastructure stuff transport and water and 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.760 et cetera, you'll see a lot of other things, uh, 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.440 increase in cost because of that. So being able to 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.760 build upward has a lot of different benefits. So we're 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.800 actually seeing a project. It's a it's a cooperation between 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:23.840 Cambridge University's Department about Architecture and p LP ARCHICHEC Tecture 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.800 and engineers Smith and Walwork and they're working on an 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:33.320 eighty story building that would be three or four feet 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:39.320 tall made out of timber. Essentially. That sounds pretty crazy, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.919 it's it's The project is being called the Oakwood Tower. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.880 Um it would be if it was If it goes 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.320 on to be to be built, it will be the 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.919 second tallest building in London after only the Shard. You know, 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.880 I used to live in Oakwood, but that was Oakwood, Georgia. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.440 So you might wonder like, well, why are we even 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.880 looking at Wood again, What's what's the big deal? Why 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:05.920 why appear to take a step backward in human architecture. 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.200 But actually, as it turns out, Wood has got a 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:09.680 lot of things going for it. For one thing, it's 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.760 a renewable resource. That's a big one, right, as long 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.800 as you harvest it responsibly. Yeah, and plant more trees 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.000 right right, exactly. Yeah, you have to have good stewardship 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.560 of forests in order for this to be a truly 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.440 renewable resource and not having a net negative impact. But 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:31.000 it would potentially be a much better resource than some 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.799 of the other alternatives. Also, if you were to process 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.880 the wood properly, you're talking about building material that would 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.920 ultimately create a building that could weigh less so it 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:45.520 produces less of a strain on the area around it. Uh, 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.640 it would cost less, it would take less time to 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:53.039 build these these structures actually go up pretty fast, um, 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.919 and it could be uh more resistant to fire actually, 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:59.520 which is a little weird to think of when you're 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:05.280 talking about we're lying so alright, So the way I've 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.000 seen it described is that the way this wood is made, 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.000 you get a char that's on the outside of the wood. 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.560 But it is very difficult for fire to penetrate further 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:19.040 in than the surface. Given however many layers of would 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.640 you have, and the more layers of would you have, 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.160 the more time it would take for the fire to 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.960 actually penetrate and burn through, right, because we're not talking 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.120 about about just a big old block of wood from 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.119 a single tree. Obviously, perhaps because if you're talking about 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.440 a thousand foot high skyscraper, that's a much larger tree 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.560 than I've personally seen. Um but uh but but yeah, 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.800 so you're you're talking about wood composed in layers. And 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.320 also yeah, like like the natural tendency of a char 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.520 on the outside of wood acts as a protective layer 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:54.040 against the stuff further inside. Right, So in these circumstances, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.080 with a large enough item of wood, yeah, you could 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.880 also have treated wood as well, which would make it 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.760 even more fire resistant. And this is all very important 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.520 because so so a lot of this work is being done. 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.400 Like we said, in London, let me tell you a 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:13.240 little bit about London wooden buildings and fire. There was 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.119 a little event in sixteen sixty six, the Great Fire 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:22.080 of London. London was devastated by this fire. More than 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:27.640 thirteen thousand houses were destroyed, uh somewhere almost like seven 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.440 different major churches and landmarks were destroyed. I think I 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.520 remember reading Samuel Peep's diary entry about this. Did he 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.720 have one? It was it about a different fire? Maybe 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.000 I'd have to, I would have to do more research 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:42.640 to tell you that. The fact on that I can 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:47.520 tell you that there were only six recorded deaths. Now, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.720 there were probably a lot more that didn't go recorded, 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.040 but there are only six recorded deaths that were connected 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.520 to the sixteen sixty six Great Fire of London. There 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.800 were a lot of reasons why this fire was able 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.600 to rage out of control and caused so much devastation. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.640 A big one was that London at that time had 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:09.959 no official organized fire brigade. It's a huge drawback. Um. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:11.640 But another big one was that a lot of the 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.080 buildings were made out of wood and they were very 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.800 close together. If you've ever been through any of the 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.480 historic areas of England and you see like the like, 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.640 you'll see these super narrow alleyways where buildings will actually 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:27.400 touch above the alley, they'll be in contact with each other. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.400 And that's how London at the time looked, and so 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.440 fire could spread very easily from from house to house 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.160 because they were pretty much in contact with one another. UM. 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.240 So things are different now, obviously, and the actual timber 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.680 we're using is different now. Very important when you're talking 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.439 about a city that one of its defining historical moments 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.960 was a massive fire, and certainly other cities as well 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.600 have sure, yeah, Chicago has had a massive one as well. 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.920 Planta is a little bit upset about it still, Yeah, Atlanta, 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.880 who was a purposefully set fire. But yes, yeah. Another 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.920 possible benefit to using wood as opposed to other materials 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:15.280 is really aesthetic. According to the project leaders, the Brits 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.679 might be more receptive to taller buildings if they're made 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.680 out of natural materials rather than concrete. Here's where we 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:24.840 get a little touchy feely, because they say, like, hey, 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.960 you know how sometimes you go outside and it just 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.199 feels nice. I wouldn't be great if it felt nice 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.600 when you win inside. What if we talk the stuff 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.720 that's outside and put it inside, then inside would be 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.280 nice like the outside. I'm being a little facetious, but 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.400 that's kind of how it comes across. And there is 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.680 science behind this, like feeling of nice science it. Yeah, 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.359 So there have been studies, I'll say that now. According 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.720 to a piece on the University of Cambridge website, recent 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.800 studies have shown that timber buildings can have a positive 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:02.320 health effect, and from an armchair psychology perspective, it certainly 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.520 seems intuitive right, the idea that you could have this 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.800 a natural setting or a more natural setting may feel 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:15.679 more relaxing than a very sterile, you know, artificial synthetic setting. UM, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.680 but it's it's hard to say, like is that true 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.199 or is that just uh an intuition that may or 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.840 may not have any founding in science. Well, one of 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.560 those studies was conducted by the University of British Columbia 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.880 and FP Innovations. But to be fair, FP Innovations is 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.280 a nonprofit Canadian organization that's closely tied to the forest industry, 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.559 So you gotta keep that in mind, like who is 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.200 the person, Like what are the entities that are sponsoring 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.400 and conducting the study and do they have a vested 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.520 interest in the outcome? But the study claims that would 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:51.480 surfaces lower the sympathetic nervous system activation UH, the S 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.760 and S in other words, so that means that areas 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.480 with wind services tend to be more relaxing and can 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.200 help with stress management, which in turn can have a 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.400 positive impact on health in general. We've done episodes about 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.640 the future of stress, and it is clear stress UH, 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.280 certain types of stress affected by the environment, and and 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.400 they can have a very powerful effect on your health 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.959 and well being. So that's that's not in question. So 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.960 in the study, what they ended up doing was they 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.960 held an experiment. They had four different office environments with 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:30.480 varying levels of artificial versus natural kind of surfaces, like 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.119 wood surfaces and like. Some had a couple of accents 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.360 that were made out of wood. There was one where 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.520 like the shades were all made out of wood, the table, 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.600 the desk was would they had plants in the room. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:43.920 There was another one that was made out of things 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.240 like painted press board, you know that kind of stuff. 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.600 So they had a different range um that they could 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:54.079 put the various test subjects into. Those test subjects were 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.559 one nineteen university students, And I wrote in the notes, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.640 I'm always in favor of doing mental health tests on 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:04.200 univer city students. That's what they're there for. Uh, And 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.560 it is what most mental health tests are done on. Yeah. Yeah, man, 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.720 if it weren't for university students, science would be lacking. 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.719 Maybe I shouldn't have said mental health psychology behavioral psychology, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.160 especially to be fair. To be fair, I I said 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.080 mental health is more or less kind of a tongue 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.800 in cheek snarky comment on this, but behavioral psychology would 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.720 be much more accurate. So each student was assigned to 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.400 one of those four types of office environments. No one 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.480 was told what the study was about specifically. Uh So 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.280 they had no idea what they were, what was going 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.040 to be measured, or how it would be measured. So 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.439 that was, you know, it's at least a single blind. 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.400 I don't know that. I don't think it was double blind. 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.600 I'm pretty sure that people administering the test knew what 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.920 was going on. Uh So they had like skin contact 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.920 sensors put on to kind of uh detect when there 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.080 were spikes in stress. You know, the idea being that 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.079 if you detect sweat, someone's obviously feeling a little more 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.080 stress than someone who isn't sweating that kind of stuff. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.320 So they put these students in one of those four 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.400 office environments. Each student then had to go through three phases, 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.160 again not being told what was happening or why it 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.760 was happening. The first phase was they were left alone 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.680 for ten minutes in the room, which actually had their 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:23.080 their anxiety start to climb because they're sitting there wondering 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.840 what's going to happen to them they don't know. Uh. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.200 Then the next phase was that they had to take 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:33.880 an audio mathematic test, so they're listening to math problems 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.920 and having to work on them. This this was in 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.760 order to again increase their level of anxiety. Let's see 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.360 what happens when we take the puppy away. Um. And 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:45.760 then at the end they were left alone again to 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.520 kind of decompress, to to recover from the stressful experience 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.200 they just had. And UH. All the data would be 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.680 analyzed later. And according to the researchers, the S and 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.520 S activation was lowest in office environ mints that had 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.880 wood services and furnishings. Uh. And they were lowest during 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.520 all three phases. So it didn't matter if you're talking 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.160 about the initial phase, the actual test, or the distressing part. 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.760 Those layers were all lower in the for students who 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:16.960 were in the the office environment that had the wood 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.080 surfaces in them. But we gotta keep in mind it 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.720 was a small study. Hundred nineteen people's not a lot 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.280 in the grand scheme of science. Uh. And it also 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:30.400 had vested parties that were involved in the administration of 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.840 this test. And that doesn't mean that the test is invalid. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.000 It doesn't mean that the conclusions are wrong. It just 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.920 means we have to keep that in mind when we 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:44.000 hear this and not just say all right, well case closed, 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.440 it's definite. Now, well, you know, one thing I would 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.880 think is, uh, I was just running through this in 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.320 my mind, wondering how I would feel in different different 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.640 material environments as far as stress goes trying to do 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.080 math problems, and I would think, you know, I wonder 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.600 if environments that are most like the environments where I 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.600 went to school would be the most stressful, uh so like, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.240 and that would not be wooden environments, so that could 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:16.800 be another you know, like associations. I mean there there's definitely, 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.960 again the gut feeling type of stuff. There's definitely some 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.440 stuff that makes me feel that they're onto something here. 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.240 Even if I don't go so far as to say 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:30.400 this definitively proves to me that that their hypothesis holds water, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.360 because I think of experiences if I had going to 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.320 like a rustic cabin and breathing in the smell of 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.400 like you can smell the wood and and it has 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.720 that very warm tone to it, like there is something 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:48.320 very kind of termites, There is something kind of cozy 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:53.360 and relaxing about that. And uh, it's just the question 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.760 of is that in fact something that is scientifically supportable 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.560 or is it just like you know, does it have 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.400 no bearing whatsoever. Well, I mean another way you could 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.240 look at this is you wouldn't even have to get 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.560 to the level of science and talking about, you know, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.960 scientifically measurable effects on stress. You could just say what 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.800 what do people like? More more people would tell you, yeah, 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.520 I like wooden environment. What's what's aesthetic? And uh and 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.960 and there are certainly lots of kind of bunk psychology 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.879 experiments into into the esthetics of an environment, in the 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.040 in the color tones of an environment that are going 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.960 to inform uh, you know, your opinion one way or another, 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.320 at least your opinion of the scientists. That's fair. I 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.400 often think of like my like, I like I like 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.000 the whole cabin get away kind of thing, Like I 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.439 I enjoy that experience, and I enjoy that environment. My 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:49.520 wife has a preference for very modern kind of architecture 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:55.840 and furnishings, which don't necessarily fall into that same category. 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.520 But that's what she finds really relaxing. So it doesn't 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.359 necessarily mean that you know, the science is wrong or whatever. 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:07.199 It just may be more complicated than this hypothesis or 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.760 it maybe that's totally correct. It's just a study with 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.880 a hundred nineteen people. It's hard to say at any rate. 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.480 I want to talk a little bit about what makes 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.040 this particular type of wood so strong. We we mentioned 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.960 that it's lots of different layers. Um. We're specifically talking 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.440 about a type of wood product, industrial wood product called 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:31.080 cross laminated timber or c LT. And you're starting to 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:35.400 see this being used in the UK and Canada fairly extensively. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:39.240 It's starting to get adopted more widely in the United States, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.800 especially since it's the possibility of of having a new 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.679 industry in the U S where you could, again with 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.040 good stewardship of forests, you have a new export you 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.840 could create for construction materials. So how is this stuff made? 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.040 It's really cool? So al right, well, first of all, 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.520 you have to cut down trees. We haven't figured out 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.920 a way of making stuff out of wood without doing that, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.880 so that's step one. But then you have to make 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.240 boards out of the trees. Um, and then you dry 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.920 the boards in a kiln. Oh okay, well, but there 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.280 you're introducing some energy requirements, probably not to the same 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.560 extent that you would be using in the creation of cement, 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.040 right because you're drying it out. Obviously, if you were 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.119 to increase the heat too much, you would have some 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.679 issues there. But yes, well, I'm just saying part of 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.919 what we're trying to avoid is like all of the 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:27.240 energy absolutely burning the cement for such a long time 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.840 and such a high heat use it. Yeah, my my 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.760 guess is that the kilns that used to dry boards 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.560 are operating at significantly lower temperatures and for less time 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.919 than for cement. But then you take the boards and 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.879 uh so you put them so that the grain alternates 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:49.200 by ninety degrees level by level. So some boards are gonna, 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.120 like all the boards are gonna be the same dimension, 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.000 but in some you're gonna have the grain going along 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.560 the long side and some some you're gonna have the 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.720 grain going along the narrow side. So you stacks stack 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.560 them with the grain alternating ninety degrees um. You make 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.240 an odd numbered stack of boards, usually between three and seven. 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.600 You glue them together using a special type of adhesive, 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.280 and then you put it through a pneumatic press to 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:19.480 press the board together and this creates a much stronger 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.840 material that is still relatively light compared to alternatives, but 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.880 compared to regular wood, it's more dense. And yes, yes, 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.639 and so uh and like I said, this stuff can 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.800 go up pretty fast. Actually watched a video where a 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.560 guy was talking about the process of building with the stuff. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:37.919 I was trying to I was thinking he was going 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.119 to talk about the process of making it. No, he 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.320 was talking about using it to actually build. And what 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.920 was fascinating to me was he said, so these panels, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.919 and the panels were huge, they were like maybe like 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.040 you know, there were several feet wide and many more 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.360 feet long. So we can put one of these up 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.000 every seven to eight minutes. So building a structure out 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.040 of that material goes pretty quickly compared to other types 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.920 of materials. So that's one of those huge advantages. Yeah, 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.320 and c LT isn't the only type of wood product 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:12.960 that's being investigated for for wooden buildings. UM glued slabs 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.520 of bamboo are also being looked at, and different treatments 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.960 for different types of wood can make them stronger or stiffer, 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.040 a distinction that we're going to talk about a little 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:24.880 bit later on. UM or more resistant to fungus, which 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:26.960 is great to be if your would in a building. 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.560 Um and and some theorists, theorists in the industry are 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.720 are even imagining. Sorry, I just thought fungus is in nature. 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.119 You know, if nature makes people feel better, maybe you 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:41.160 need some fungus in your building. I mean packs packs 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.800 of wolves are in nature to bring them on. Are 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:49.560 you sure, I kind of I mean puppy dogs. Um, yes, yes, 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.760 so so some some theorists are even imagining that that 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:58.520 that GMO trees could be genetically constructed to provide ultimate 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.920 building materials in the future. This has never entered my mind, 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:06.639 so I've thought tons about GMO crops. How do you 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.120 know how to alter the genes of of food crops 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.160 to make them, you know, have higher yields or more 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:17.119 resistant to herbicides or something like that. But yeah, you 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.479 could totally alter the genes of trees to produce a 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.080 different kind of timber if you want to. Yeah, something 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.399 with with more stronger, better cellulose, which is really the 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.960 structure that we're talking about in terms of the benefits 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.919 of wood. I'm just thinking of genetically modifying mushrooms so 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:39.159 that smurfs could live in them also lovely. So here's 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.560 the question. We we've talked about the possibility of going 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.959 back to using wood as a major component in building, 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:49.600 including skyscrapers, which if you had told me about a 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.680 few years ago, I thought would have thought it was crazy. Um, 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.959 it doesn't make sense. Is it actually more sustainable and 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:01.800 more environmentally friendly than the traditional concrete and steel stuff 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:06.600 that skyscrapers are made out of today? Well, okay. Proponents 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.720 say that if if wooden construction like this takes off, 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:14.280