WEBVTT - The Cathie Wood Aftershow

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Maren Talks Money, the after Show. This is

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<v Speaker 1>where we unpack all the commentary or some of the

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<v Speaker 1>commentary at least that you hear in our regular podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Maren Sunset Web this week. John Seppek, senior reporter

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<v Speaker 1>at Bloomberg, author of the Daily Money to Still the

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<v Speaker 1>newsletter which you should be reading every day. Do so

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<v Speaker 1>if you are not, joins me to discuss my conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with our investment management founder, CEO and CIO Kathy would John,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll have listened to the whole thing by.

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<v Speaker 2>Now right, I have read the transcript. Yes, that's like

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<v Speaker 2>listening to it.

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<v Speaker 1>It is like listening to it. The fact is better

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<v Speaker 1>than listening to it. And it was a longer conversation

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<v Speaker 1>than a lot of the ones that we have on

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast, And I thought I would let the conversation

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<v Speaker 1>run because a lot of people are still very heavily

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<v Speaker 1>invested in our innovation. A lot of people are incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>loyal to Kathy and those people and other people really

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<v Speaker 1>want to hear what she says. So did you enjoy it? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean she's a very engaging and entertaining storyteller, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's basically the secret of her success. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that that is Katy's edge. Kathy's edge has been

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<v Speaker 2>able to sell a good story to investors and make

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<v Speaker 2>money from it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the investments

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<v Speaker 2>that she's in are going to make money, or certainly

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily from the prices at which she's been keen

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<v Speaker 2>to pay for them.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's calling her are you are you? Are

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<v Speaker 1>you calling her an asset gatherer the way stock picker

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<v Speaker 1>because it's quite rd John Well, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, I mean, I mean only within fund management circles,

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<v Speaker 2>but I guess that's the ones that she moves in.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, I mean it's a it's it's ingenious marketing.

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<v Speaker 2>And I actually think that you know, it's it's interesting

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<v Speaker 2>because obviously, I know it's something you didn't touch on,

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<v Speaker 2>but Kathy has has kind of discussed our kind of

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<v Speaker 2>strong religious kind of views, and there is something evangelical

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<v Speaker 2>about ARC I mean obviously even the name, and whenever

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<v Speaker 2>it was going through the conversation, I just thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was really interesting because it's like they're very convincing arguments,

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<v Speaker 2>but they are also very much arguments that are kind

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<v Speaker 2>of cherry picked tape so they're also macro based, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for somebody who's a stockpicker, they're all about themes and

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<v Speaker 2>they're all about, you know, the big picture and talking

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<v Speaker 2>about deflation. For example, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Did ask her about that. To be fair, I did

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<v Speaker 1>start with let's let's start with macro, I said, because

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<v Speaker 1>she's known to be quite a good macro analyst, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So so we started with that. I led her into

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<v Speaker 1>the conversation about about deflation.

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<v Speaker 3>And nothing like that. And I actually think, and I

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<v Speaker 3>have been saying for quite some time, that we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to see defleation before all of this is over, and

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<v Speaker 3>we're beginning to say it already.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but isn't it a bit convenient deflation? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>because basically all of the stuff that she owns in ARP,

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<v Speaker 2>and the reason that the ARK has done badly over

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<v Speaker 2>the last couple of years is because interest rates have

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<v Speaker 2>gone up, and it's very much been associated as the

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<v Speaker 2>most you know, the kind of long duration stocks, the

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<v Speaker 2>ones that don't make any money yet, but as long

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<v Speaker 2>as you hold them and believe then eventually they'll make

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<v Speaker 2>lots of money. They kind of fairy tale stocks and

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of things that's thrived in the low interest

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<v Speaker 2>rate world, and I guess it's like it's a bit

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<v Speaker 2>like soft Bank. So when you look at soft Bank,

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<v Speaker 2>the big Japanese kind of investment fund that's owned by

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<v Speaker 2>Massa y or She's sowing and he's got these kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like almost comedy PowerPoint packs where he'll talk about

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<v Speaker 2>all the private companies that he ones and you know

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<v Speaker 2>that he's kind of found, and there'll be like he

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<v Speaker 2>had one for we Work that somebody put up the

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<v Speaker 2>other day and reminded us of them whenever they bought

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<v Speaker 2>we Walk. The idea was that there was a kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a graph and it showed the line going down

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<v Speaker 2>and then bouncing back up to never before seeing hies

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<v Speaker 2>and it was kind of like the commentary around it was,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the the the theoretical turn around for this company.

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<v Speaker 2>And of course we worked, just went bust.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the week we said goodbye to we worked.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe for that maybe for the last time, it can

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<v Speaker 1>be reincarnated things like we worked, So let's not right

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<v Speaker 1>it off John next year. This is the week we

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<v Speaker 1>said everyone said say goodbye to the money, that's for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>But I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think it's this. We've lived in a bull market for storytelling,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was created by low interest rates, so you

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<v Speaker 2>could basically tell any story as long as it was

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<v Speaker 2>a good one, somebody would give you money. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think Kathy's still stuck in that world because.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought the success is based on Yeah, the bit

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<v Speaker 1>I thought you'd like best in the entire transcript or

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<v Speaker 1>audio for people who are you know, the time to

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<v Speaker 1>listen to the audio as opposed to skim the transcript.

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<v Speaker 1>The best bit was when Kathy told me that her

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<v Speaker 1>fund was a deep value fund and said, that'll that'll

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<v Speaker 1>give John a bit of a spluttering into his coffee.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, are but you're not really valuation driven, are you.

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<v Speaker 3>We are if you give us five years, and if

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<v Speaker 3>you give us five years, then we are a deep

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<v Speaker 3>value manager. We're a deep value manager.

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<v Speaker 2>That was brilliant. That was the idea that it's like

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<v Speaker 2>Wardern buffet John his cigar, but these proper Ben Graham

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<v Speaker 2>stuff and yeah, so it's deep value relative to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like I mean, you know, Becoin is deep value.

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<v Speaker 2>Now if you believe I think Kathy does that, it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to go to one point five million dollars before

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thirty, I think was her most recent forecast for bitcoin.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it should if you buy it slightly grand

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<v Speaker 2>and yes it's deep value, but only in the sense

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<v Speaker 2>that if you believe the most outlined dish production is

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<v Speaker 2>going to be correct, then it's cheap relative to that protection.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was an interesting because she did say that

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<v Speaker 1>there's a bit here. You know, most people when they

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<v Speaker 1>when they look at their valuation, they're looking just at

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<v Speaker 1>this year, maybe next year, and then say, well, we

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<v Speaker 1>look at five years now. I listened to her saying that,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought, well, quite right, you should give up

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<v Speaker 1>five years. And I think everybody does. Yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>fas kind of a trope of fund management to say,

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<v Speaker 1>judge us over five years, not over one year or

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<v Speaker 1>two years. Of course, we don't much to judgem over

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<v Speaker 1>one year or two years. You know, we enjoyed that

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<v Speaker 1>a lot more, don't we. But we should obviously judge

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<v Speaker 1>everyone over five years. But I think the thing that

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<v Speaker 1>I found interesting was that she knows and we discussed

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<v Speaker 1>that very rising interest rates are horrible for long duration assets,

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<v Speaker 1>but and high interest rates are horrible for long duration

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<v Speaker 1>assets assets to the returns come far in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Jam tomorrow stocks as you like to call them, John,

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<v Speaker 1>but she still feels that the stocks in her hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>have been featured unfairly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, and I suppose that's the only thing

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<v Speaker 2>you start from, that kin of you start from, like king,

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<v Speaker 2>a top down approach. And also, like I said, the

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<v Speaker 2>micro story that she's telling one about deflation, So she

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<v Speaker 2>clearly realizes the falling interest rates would be bullish for

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<v Speaker 2>her fund. But she said she's also got a hedge

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<v Speaker 2>it by saying, yeah, but these stocks will do well anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, again, have a period. She's had a previous

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<v Speaker 1>period of performing well when rates arising, but obviously nothing

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<v Speaker 1>like this when rates arising just a little bit in

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<v Speaker 1>a rather different environment, there's a massive rise in interest rates.

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<v Speaker 1>The constant rises a very different environment.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and also staying high is a different environment as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And I just don't think that you can. Well, I

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<v Speaker 2>suppose it's it makes sense that she wouldn't change her

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<v Speaker 2>story now, because well, yeah, why why would you? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not people people do buy fund managers on the

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<v Speaker 2>basis of their style, and one of the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>killer things for any fund manager is style drift. If

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<v Speaker 2>you turn around and you know, if everyone's owning you

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<v Speaker 2>for one reason and then you say, oh, so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to change my mind, then that's that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>destroy your career. And that's absolutely fair enough. And from

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<v Speaker 2>that point of view, you know, I've got a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of respect for it. I mean, in lots of ways,

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<v Speaker 2>she's just a more kind of aggressive American AE style

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<v Speaker 2>Scottish mortgage trust.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, well, interestingly, one of when I

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<v Speaker 1>was at an event the other day and talking to

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<v Speaker 1>people about about oh and also about Scottish mortgage, and

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<v Speaker 1>several people said to me that they used either our

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<v Speaker 1>course Scottish mortgage interchangeably to balance out they're rougher and

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<v Speaker 1>their personal assets.

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<v Speaker 2>I think thats just.

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<v Speaker 1>In case, just incaseion. And these are fascinating stories and

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly compelling, and you know, so many of these things

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<v Speaker 1>may well happen, will probably happen. You know, we're on

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<v Speaker 1>the edge, we hope, you and I and everybody else,

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<v Speaker 1>we're on the edge of the kind of technological revolution

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<v Speaker 1>that will give us see the productivity revolution that we've

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<v Speaker 1>been waiting for for decades. In decades some way we've

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<v Speaker 1>been saying for ages, look at all this new tech.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to be a productivity revolution, revolution in healthcare revolution,

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<v Speaker 1>and this revolution of that. It hasn't quite happened, but

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<v Speaker 1>it feels like if you look at the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>thing that things that Cafie says, I know she've been

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<v Speaker 1>saying them for a few years, but nonetheless, the technology

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<v Speaker 1>is ready, it's available. We may be on the edge

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<v Speaker 1>of the explosion that we've been waiting for, but that

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<v Speaker 1>won't necessarily translate into the prices of the stocks in

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<v Speaker 1>portfolios like that going up another four hundred percent in

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<v Speaker 1>a year.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that the difficulty. It's like, there's always timing with

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<v Speaker 2>these kinds of things, and there's always the winners and

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<v Speaker 2>the losers where any kind of tech thing, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the interesting point is that obviously the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>tech kind of hype this year has been around artificial intelligence,

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<v Speaker 2>and the best stock, in fact, pretty much the only

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<v Speaker 2>stock to play that as a picks and shovels play

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<v Speaker 2>was Navidia, the big chip manufacturer, and of course Katy

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<v Speaker 2>famously got rid of that, one of the few tech

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<v Speaker 2>stocks that she kind of disposed of before it then

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<v Speaker 2>kind of rocketed earlier this year.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is an interesting one really.

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<v Speaker 2>Now competition well it's not as much as getting no competed,

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<v Speaker 2>but so yeah, you know what I mean. It's like

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<v Speaker 2>it's very much the go to stock for that sector,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was actually was the go to for the

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<v Speaker 2>gaming boom and the bitcoin boom as well, because their

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<v Speaker 2>chips are the key ones for all of those process

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<v Speaker 2>and activities. And I just thought it was in the

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<v Speaker 2>the same time as everybody else was jumping on that

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<v Speaker 2>bind wagon, she actually kind of exited it and unfortunately

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong tame. But it does she sure you that

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<v Speaker 2>even I find this focused on this stuff is going

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<v Speaker 2>to get it wrong sometimes sometimes.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing one of the things that I thought was

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<v Speaker 1>interesting was the discussion we had about chemical and nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>and her firm belief that moving into uranium and bdefault

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<v Speaker 1>obviously into nuclear energy is the only way forward for

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<v Speaker 1>the energy transition, and she's very into the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>the modular reactors, et cetera. I thought that was quite

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<v Speaker 1>interesting because it's not the subject that I would have

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<v Speaker 1>associated with her, And she tells me that, in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>she's been looking at that since well for the last

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<v Speaker 1>decade or so two.

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<v Speaker 3>Decades about nuclear because they're looking at tax again, we

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<v Speaker 3>believe it is the cleanest other other than hydro.

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<v Speaker 1>It is the.

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<v Speaker 3>Cleanest energy source out there. It is the safest when

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<v Speaker 3>you're good. Accidents associated with exploring and developing for energy,

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<v Speaker 3>and yes, we think that after years there is you know,

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<v Speaker 3>ten twelve years are being denigrated that environmentalists and others

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<v Speaker 3>are now looking at the facts when it comes to

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<v Speaker 3>nuclear and deciding, you know what, we probably well, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Mean, that's interesting. I think that was interesting. I'm quite

0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:37.320
<v Speaker 2>bullih in nuclear as well. It is a very different

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.360
<v Speaker 2>area low and when you think about it, the nuclear

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 2>story is pretty old one. Actually, it has come back

0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.800
<v Speaker 2>over and over again in cycles, and what has tended

0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.760
<v Speaker 2>to happen is unfortunately, if it's something you like. For

0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Kushima was what put an end to the last uranium

0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.760
<v Speaker 2>bull market, and hopefully this time it is different. And

0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:01.280
<v Speaker 2>finally we're kind of outgrowing a fear of and nuclear,

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.280
<v Speaker 2>partly driven by even needn't you find the way you

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 2>keep the lights in?

0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:05.320
<v Speaker 1>Way?

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.040
<v Speaker 2>We decided this mindal look kind of force all fuel infrastructure.

0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, it feels like now we're beginning to accept that

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.760
<v Speaker 1>wind and solar are not as cheap and effective as

0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 1>we thought they might because pretty much our any way

0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.520
<v Speaker 1>out if we want an effective energy transition.

0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's interesting because, as you say, that's not

0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 2>really it's a bit different. And again it sort of

0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.840
<v Speaker 2>feels like this is a booll market you've supported that

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.240
<v Speaker 2>you think you can get on board, rather than we

0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 2>can't be cause a very old companies have any old

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.920
<v Speaker 2>school company as well? Renovation there Well yeah, I mean

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming to being in a manor the deploy have

0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 2>get slightly more innovation than we.

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 1>No, you're right, but that's one of the things that

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.080
<v Speaker 1>Ed Conway kept telling us over and over and over.

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Don't underestimate or we need to recognize how incredibly productive

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 1>these minds have become. The innovation in mining is massive.

0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.520
<v Speaker 1>There's not as many people down minds as they used

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to be. Very innovative, very productive. So now you're right

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.079
<v Speaker 1>to take it back. It's an innovative coming is interesting.

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Love me if you get the bill.

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 2>No, and I just pulled a chart of Camico up.

0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.120
<v Speaker 2>So Camiico, as you would expect, kind of last peaked

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 2>in twenty eleven when you know figures you my up.

0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>It then basically went down pretty much NonStop. We a

0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.320
<v Speaker 2>little blip up in twenty fourteen, and it kind of

0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 2>came to its absolute bottom in the March twenty twenty,

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.720
<v Speaker 2>whenever obviously the pandemic was causing the amount of havoc.

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 2>It's now almost back at that twenty eleven high. So

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm just wondering at which point in the billmarket between

0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 2>the bottom in twenty twenty and then reaching the old

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of twenty eleven high Kathy actually bought it, having

0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, been thinking about it for a decade.

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 1>I can't answer that, but we'll look it up later.

0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:55.720
<v Speaker 2>I just wondering through it that way.

0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, look at up leisure. Okay, anything else we want

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>to talk about in there? Anything else? Grab your attention.

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was really interesting and I love hearing

0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the body of these technologies. I love you a little bit. Crespos,

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.160
<v Speaker 2>fun conversations, robots boy, that sort of stuff. But as

0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.360
<v Speaker 2>a classic casey, story drive an investment, and one of

0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 2>the things that we're always told to try and avoid

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 2>doing this investors is being seduced by stories focusing on

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:31.600
<v Speaker 2>the numbers. Yeah, so yeah, absolutely bill market for storytelling.

0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 2>And I don't think she should change because you know

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.280
<v Speaker 2>it's not I could wait be.

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>People buy her for what she is. And the thing

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.520
<v Speaker 1>I didn't talk about with her, and if she ever

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 1>comes on again, I'd really like to talk to about

0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.360
<v Speaker 1>her is the building of the business, you know, because

0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.680
<v Speaker 1>it is an extraordinary business. Billions and billions under management,

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.240
<v Speaker 1>pretty high management fees relative to some other fund manager

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 1>managers working in the same area, so you know, it

0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 1>makes a fortune. It makes an absolute fortune based on

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 1>the as on the management on the fleet. So she's

0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 1>running the performance of the assets aside, she's running a

0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 1>really fabulous business.

0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I mean she's a very good entrepreneur. Great

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 2>now absolutely have to handle that.

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I mean she she counts as her company

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 1>is also an innovative company. She's an innovative disruptor in

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 1>her own right, which is impressive. And when I ask

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.280
<v Speaker 1>you the question about gold and bitcoin, I guess I

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of knew the answer, I'm afraid. So if I'm

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 1>going to give you a choice of three asset classes

0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.160
<v Speaker 1>or three assets, should I say, and you have to

0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.160
<v Speaker 1>choose one to hold for ten years, You're not going

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.920
<v Speaker 1>to have to think very hard. The three are gold,

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.160
<v Speaker 1>a deposit account, cash deposit account, or bitcoin.

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:53.920
<v Speaker 3>Bitcoin hands down, hands down, Bitcoin is a hedge against

0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 3>both inflation and deflation.

0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 1>So is gold. Yes, so is gold, but.

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.439
<v Speaker 3>Bitcoin is digital and if you look at the incremental demand,

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.639
<v Speaker 3>we're going to see gold already has its demand. You know,

0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:18.440
<v Speaker 3>it's happened right. Bitcoin is new and institutions are barely involved,

0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:24.160
<v Speaker 3>and young people would much prefer to hold bitcoin then

0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:29.480
<v Speaker 3>to hold gold. So you know, it's interesting that both

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:36.600
<v Speaker 3>gold and bitcoin are hedges against deflation. But bitcoin's been

0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:37.920
<v Speaker 3>doing better recently.

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But what I like's with us, it's like, to

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.920
<v Speaker 2>be fair, she's the one that's coming closest to anyone

0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.920
<v Speaker 2>that we've talked to of sort of kevin the rationale

0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:53.440
<v Speaker 2>for it, and uh, you know, in a clear way

0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 2>whether you agree with it or not, what you know,

0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.560
<v Speaker 2>to be honest, that only the main reason that favorite

0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 2>gold is cause well it's been around for ags and

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 2>onnlike most things, that's actually a benefit in this your circumstance.

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.840
<v Speaker 2>But absolutely I don't disagree be the argument. I think

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.560
<v Speaker 2>there's a valid argument. I mean, I'm not convinced that

0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.960
<v Speaker 2>it's going to go over a million dollars, but then

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.760
<v Speaker 2>maybe one day I'll be kicking myself. Keep telling you

0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.440
<v Speaker 2>about some and we'll just lose the password, please you.

0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 1>All right, all right, A lot of people keep telling

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:30.440
<v Speaker 1>you on Twitter, I'm just better. Well do you know

0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:37.040
<v Speaker 1>what I am better? It's true, It's true, right, okay.

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:38.639
<v Speaker 1>So another one to add to our bitcoin lister, and

0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the last thing I'm going to say on it. She

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 1>is the first person who has told us that you

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.360
<v Speaker 1>should hold bitcoin because it's a hedge against deflation and inflation.

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:48.919
<v Speaker 1>No one's ever said that to us before, and obviously

0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.480
<v Speaker 1>there is no evidence of that yet early days for bitcoin,

0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.040
<v Speaker 1>but it'll be quite interesting if that turned out to

0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 1>be true, which I suspect it won't, but you never know.

0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 1>You never know, John, thank you so much for your

0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:04.160
<v Speaker 1>criticisms and misery. Thanks film, thanks for listening this week's

0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Maren Dog's Money The After Show. This episode was hosted

0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.639
<v Speaker 1>by me Myren Subset Web alongside John Stepfak. It was

0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.160
<v Speaker 1>produced by Summersaidi and additional editing by Blake Naples