WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 236 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.120 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.720 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.480 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, But 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.880 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:33.960 Mia. Are you excited today to learn about Gregory hay Bno. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.400 You know, I would describe myself going into this as 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:42.360 an amateur but enthusiast Greg Bovino hater. I am very 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.720 familiar with his work in Chicago. I'm familiar with his 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.720 work in Minneapolis. I am less familiar with his other work. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.480 I'm excited to have a higher tier of hater of 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:52.240 one of the worst people we've ever had. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.840 Yeah, really a gem of the American law enforcement system. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:01.080 We're gonna talk mostly today about Greg Bavino's post Korea pivot, 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.240 which seems mostly to be asking to have his whole 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.400 career back, but we can talk a little bit about 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.760 his previous career work. When he was down here, he 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:10.640 was in ib he was in El Centro, who was 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.399 in blythe for a while, but last week Mia he 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.440 was in Portugal. Oh boy, yeah, do you want to 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:19.000 guess why? 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:19.920 You know? 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.840 Okay, going through my by by history of Portugal, it's 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.640 a country that had a left wing military coup that 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.280 didn't go far enough by which they never quite got 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:31.319 rid of all the fascists. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.720 Yeah, a country that notably has a long history of fascism. Yes, 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.520 which is where he was. Actually he was there in 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.600 a remigration summit. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.800 Oh no, yeah, Like, oh so. 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.280 I'm just going to use the conference's own website here. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.720 It is a set fiscal, cultural, economic, social, political, and 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.680 logistical policies whose objective is to prevent population and replacement 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:03.640 through the reversal of migratory flows. There's nothing there about 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:10.080 undocumented people. There's nothing there about visas, right, because this 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:15.080 isn't about that. This is about race and ethnicity and 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.480 removing people who do not line up with what you 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.520 consider to be the national race. 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:21.720 Yeah, this is this is the method cleansing campaign. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:22.079 Yeah. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.000 I mean, obviously there's like a lot of parallels in 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.600 the history of all of these countries, but like, yeah, 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:29.040 I think if you if you look at the most 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.480 immediate one. It's oh, this is like the shit the 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.880 Nazis were talking about doing. Well, they were building the 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.480 concentration camps with like Jewish people, right, is that they 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:42.000 were going to like deport them all to Israel or whatever. Yeah, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.959 we'll keep moving them east and at the very least 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:46.320 this is an ethnic cleansing plan. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.079 Yeah, that's the explicit goal, right that there is not 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.120 mention in that definition of undocumented people, even the way 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.520 that they have bea refers to refer to it as 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.400 illegal aliens, a term he uses a lot, and think 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.000 he sometimes uses it in quite elastic fashion. But even 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.200 in this case, that is not what this conference is about. No, yeah, 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.640 this is very much a conference about a white Europe. 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:11.240 Yeah. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.960 It was organized by Martin Selner. Selmer is a neo 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:20.440 Nazi who famously exchanged emails with Brenton tarrent at a 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:21.440 christ Church shooter. 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:22.120 Oh great. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.840 Yeah. Baffino spoke about this at the conference, and he 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.960 said that they hadn't met in person before, but after 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.040 talking for a little while, they found they were out 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.000 on the same sheet of music. 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:33.880 Incredible. 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.760 Yeah, you're going to google people men like he googled 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.960 Martin Selner, And the first thing that comes up is 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.720 that he emailed Brenton Tarrant unless I guess that's not 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.120 an issue. Yeah right, judging by the general company he kept, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.320 I don't think that's an issue because he's joining like 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.520 like a Spanish Vox party of their after day there 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.320 at AfD, the German fire right party. Racist from all 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:57.480 over Europe. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.280 We also saw the sort of racist in America who 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.960 I would describe as like fancy racists, the race science guys. 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:06.240 Right. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:07.880 Oh, they're kind of like the Bret people. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:09.840 Yeah, it is it those guys? 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.040 Or is it the kind of newer gen like tech 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.560 fascist people. So there's overlap between them. No, it's like 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:22.360 the VDA kind of tendency. Yeah, no, should we should 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.119 we explain with the vdair Yeah, a little bit, go ahead, 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.160 may yeah take it. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:26.840 Yeah. 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.960 Well, I was just gonna say, at some point we're 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.080 gonna have molly On. I am a I am what 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.520 you would call a I guess technically a professional Nazi 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.480 identifier or whatever, but I'm like a low level one, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.120 and everyone else in this network is a very high 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:43.719 level one. So we'll probably have molly On at some 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.920 point to like actually really go into vdair and like 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:47.800 that kind of shit. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:55.480 But yeah, it's broadly speaking, it's Peter Brimolo's anti immigration website. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.560 We're not talking about anti immigration terms and discussions about 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.320 what visa is we should give right, we're talking about 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:04.080 like white nationalism. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.040 Yeah, these are like Nazi Nazis. These are people that, yeah, 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:08.760 you know, like I don't think the US has ever 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.160 really had what in Europe is called like the Courton Senataire, 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.720 which is supposed to separate out like the mainstream right 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.680 wing parties from like the Nazis, Like we've never had that. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.560 So Vidare has been kind of more in anti immigration circles. 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.240 But it's also like those are people that you know, 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.360 even you're kind of like really really far right, like 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.599 people on the radio or politicians don't associate with because 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.480 they are fairly open Nazis. 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:43.000 Yeah, there was some stuff that trace back to Vida 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:47.440 in Agenda forty seven. I remember thinking like this ain't good. Yeah, 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.200 Vida just for people who like have lived a blessed 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.480 life and don't know refers to Virginia Dare, who is 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.160 I believe the first white child or the first child, 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.400 first girl maybe exploitafore. But I think as the first 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.000 white child born in the United States as settlers, one 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.880 of the onth of Roanoke people, right, Yeah. 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.520 Which is I don't know, likee, maybe you motherfuckers could 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:13.760 have made like the Rono people and disappeared, but yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.719 that would be nice. Unfortunately, Mia, No, Unfortunately they didn't 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.360 and they didn't, unfortunately assimilate into indigenous cultures the way 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:25.360 that the Rono people almost certainly did. Yes, instead, Yeah, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.960 half a millennial long campaign of terror and bloodshed. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.400 Yeah, it's interesting to see Bevino. I guess, like aligning 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.400 with these European anti migration discussion is different. It's not 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:42.839 really dealing so much in undocumented people. It's dealing with 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.839 people under various legal statuses. I'm not saying there aren't 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.440 undocumented people in Europe. There are, but the discussion there 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.880 has moved past that in a toxic way, in a 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.120 way that it's like, we need to remove these people 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:59.280 even though they do have like legal documentation that allows 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.960 them to be here. If the state says you're cooler, 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.880 you're not cool, Like that's not my concern. Yeah, but 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:10.920 it's still alarming to see the bigotry move past even that, right, 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.320 like without the pretense of enforcing the law. Yeah, and 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.960 just simply being about removing people who we don't think 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:18.920 we want to live next to because they're not white. 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:19.480 You know. 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:20.960 One of the groups that you talked about there, like 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.120 the AfD in Germany, like this has been happening for 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:25.960 like a long time, but one of their like slogans 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.440 or is remove kabab. Yeah right, and that's just literally 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.440 like remove all Turkish people from the country. Yeah, And 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.560 the AfD wants to do this. There are documents that 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.400 have leaked from them that are them planning at conferences 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.000 to Okay, this is how we're going to remove the 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:40.640 not white people, just how we're going to remove the 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.760 Jewish people. This is not even like the pretense of 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.240 anything else do with the law. This is just like 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.440 we are the original Nazis. We want to do ethnic 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.120 cleansing against not white people. Yeah. 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:56.720 Most of the people at the conference are peddling great 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.320 replacement shit, right and they yea, they genuinely believe that 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.680 is something that exists and that they can reverse it. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.880 At the conference, Beveno gave an interview. I found it 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:10.840 on a website called bras Info ther eiz H. It's 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.320 a Breton and French language website. It's also published I 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.320 saw on a couple of other substacks, so I wonder 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.560 if it was a pool interview that he gave that 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.520 very people translated it. I should note that I translated 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.280 it from French. I don't think Bavino speaks French, so 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.440 I'm imagining they translated it from English to French. And 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.040 there is an editor's note that says the editor. 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:33.640 Was an AI. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.280 Oh great, So any of the quotations here, we can't 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.640 attribute them directly, right, Like, yeah, we can't assume that 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.520 those are the words he said in English because it's 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.400 been through three layers of bullshit. So I understand that 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.960 going in. Nonetheless, I think it's a very interesting insight 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:57.160 into how Greg Bavino sees the world. And what's interesting 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.400 about that is, like Greg Leavina was very popular in 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.440 border patrol. He was, by the standards of the patrol, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:08.160 a good border patrol agent, right, He was liked, and 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.600 I don't think he developed these opinions in a few 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.760 months since he retired. No, And like a lot of 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.360 the way he talks is not dissimilar to the way 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.559 Border patrol agents talk among themselves, right, I think that, Like, 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.840 what is interesting about this is not like Greg Bavino 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.160 is essentially sharing a platform and agreeing with Nazis. It 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:33.160 is after twenty five, twenty six years, in more than 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.560 ninety thirty years in the Border patrol, this is what 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:41.079 the Border Patrol formed him into. Yeah, Because the point 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.040 I want to make here is this shit is not 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.600 something we can easily reform. This is not something we 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:51.440 can train if this country gets through this and in 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:57.000 twenty twenty eight, yes we have another election. God, we 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.600 can't fucking let this keep happening. Right, The tool that 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:07.680 Baveno was deploying in Minneapolis, in Chicago, in Charlotte and 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.600 all these other cities in Los Angeles. 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.520 Right, yeah, Memphis, New Orleans Lake, Yeah, like all over 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:15.920 the country. Yeah. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:20.400 Yeah, it is a tool that Democrats built as well 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.200 as Republicans. And the place he's at, he got to 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.480 with eight years working under Barack Obama, with four years 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.880 working under under Joe Biden. Like, we need to understand 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.680 what we are diverting a fire hose of money towards 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.240 with the Border patrol, Right, And I guess we can 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.440 just start with where Greg Bavino started, which was comparing 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.079 himself to Nazi general Erwin Rommel. Great, yeah, right at 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.160 the gate. He also compared hisself to Pat and T. Lawrence, 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.480 you know, like historically. It makes you wonder. Yeah, I 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.839 think he probably has some kind of clean Vermarke thing 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.120 going on in his head where they're just soldiers and 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.920 he can respect of them for their tactical prowess, you know, 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.360 like mm hmm, he says, quote, they grasped the overall 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.080 strategy where others in government or in the political class 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.920 did not see it or refuse to see it. Strategic 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.040 expertise combined with field command, especially in chaotic exposed events, 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.960 is very rare. I also listened to a couple of 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.400 podcasts that Beveno did with a former Border Patrol agent 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.640 who used to work in San Diego sector, and you 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:25.520 hit it a lot right to talk about battle, talk 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.200 about soldiers, but Vino sees himself as like a general 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:34.400 on border patrol, as his soldiers fighting in a war. Yeah, 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.960 that's not what they do. Oh, clearly they see it 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.160 as that. I understand why, because like they've they've got 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.760 around the country generating so much ill will that. Yeah, 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:46.720 everywhere they go, people fucking hate them. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.240 Your actual job, and the only thing we saw in 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.560 Chicago is dragging screaming babies out of their fucking homes 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.880 and putting them in camps. Yeah, I think this is 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:56.480 This is going back to the thing you're talking about 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.600 earlier about this not being something that's reformable. Is that, Yeah, 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:05.679 that task is what Border patrol was built for. That's 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.040 what it was doing under all of these administrations, just 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.520 fucking dragging people screaming from their homes in the dark 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.439 of the night. And like, the only way you can 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.440 get people to do that is by creating a crucible 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:18.520 that creates Nazis. 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.319 You can't have compassion for the people whose families you're 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.880 tearing apart, right, Like, Yeah, people should read gent Budd's 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.640 book if they want to know what going through Borderperl 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.760 Academy is. Like this give a trigger warning that gen 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.440 was sexually assaulted and and writes about that Border patrol 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.280 has a very high rate of sexual assault. Right, Border 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:40.360 patrol is ninety five percent male. I have seen people 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.160 in Border Patrol who do have compassion, and then I 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:49.440 have not seen them anymore. Like it drives those people away. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.440 They have a high drop out rate, And I think 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.800 there are people who genuinely believe that what they will 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.120 do is keep their community safe and rescue people who 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.199 get stuck crossing the border in the desert, adjudicate them 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.439 a fair process, deliver them to a fair process, and 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.160 they will do the best they can. I don't see 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.920 those people remain in the patrol for very long, right, 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.440 Like I interact with obviously, Like the stance to this 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.400 podcast is that you should remain silent and not talk 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.400 to cops, But like I interact with more patrol agents 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.599 more often than most people do. Right, that it's the 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.280 nature of my job and the place I live and 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.040 the places I go. And like I think these days 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:25.560 are recruiting, they're doing They're getting a lot of people 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.040 who are coming into starting like this. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.160 Yeah, but I don't think that's that's always been the case. 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.320 Like I understand that there are people also in communities 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.200 along the border, whether it's very little economic opportunity and 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.800 then this is the only chance they have. But I 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:38.280 see those people get spat out. 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.440 Like you said, Meir, if you are going to train 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.360 people to tear families apart, then you have to train 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.520 them to hate, and I think that is what we 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.840 see in this right, Like it's really interesting. But Vino 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.720 tells his own story a little bit, and he tells 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:54.319 this his own story on this podcast I listen to 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.680 as well. He starts with operation don't let Them Ride. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.839 Familiar with operation don't let him Ride? No, Okay, So 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.040 you have to go all the way back to twenty ten. 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.920 Oh god, in Las Vegas, Nevada. 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.840 Little tiny baby Mia, Yeah, yeah, thirteen year old Miya. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:13.560 Oh god, fuck me. 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:14.200 I feel old. 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:21.680 I was in grad school and Greg Bavino, I think 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.960 he's Bliz the Blithe station at that time. And they 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:29.920 do this operation at a bus station in Nevada. It 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.800 lasts for sixty minutes, it gets called off. The Nevada 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:38.040 Senator is pissed off about it. Their goal, they said, 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.560 was to apprehend traffickers and to rescue people who have 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.640 been trafficked or smuggled. Right in a community meeting which 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.200 was convened because the whole Latino community in Las Vegas 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.360 was like the fuck right. This internal enforcement was not 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.480 a common thing at the time. Paul Beeson, who was 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.640 chief Agent of the UMA sector at the time, said, 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.720 quote in that short period of time, we did not 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.280 apprehend anybody we felt was actively engaged in alien smuggling. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.960 We did not encounter any human trafficking victims. So to me, 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.360 didn't sound like a like a wind Yeah wait. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.920 So so like they were just rounding people up at 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.320 bus stops. Correct, they went to a bus like a 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.040 bus stepo station. Yeah, yeah, like one of the big 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.720 bus yeah yeah, and they just rounded people up and. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.720 Yeah, exactly. So his interview with this former border patrol agent, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.400 he said that they apprehended more than one alien per 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:32.840 minute of the operation. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:37.320 That was called Operation Don't Let Him Ride. And that 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:42.000 operation was set for about three days. It lasted sixty minutes. 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.400 But the interesting thing is we called more aliens than 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.520 there were minutes in the operation. It was a very 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:56.000 successful operations, very successful. Yes, Sir Harry Reid called Hussein 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.760 Obama and had that shut down immediately. But we never 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.840 got that. We never forgot the vast amount of criminals 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.080 that we apprehended in twenty ten on those bus checks 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.320 in Las Vegas, and the pervasive problem even then that 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.960 we solve a lot of that problem came in under 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.920 Barack Hussein Obama as well as Bill Ry Clinton. 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.560 I want to know the newspapers at the time reported 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.280 a number that was more than two dozen. Technically, let's 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.960 say the operation lasted sixty minutes, that is more than 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.920 two dozen. It would be unusual to report a number 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.680 of sixty by saying more than two dozen. Right. What 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.040 is more interesting to me is that this operation was 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.640 supposed to find people who had been trafficked to people 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.320 who were trafficking, and it failed. Greg Baveno seems to 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:48.680 have seen it as a success because it just found people, right, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.160 people who were undocumented, people who were otherwise in infraction 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.960 of immigration laws, but who were not involved in trafficking. 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.720 Because for him, it seems like the goal was slightly different, 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.160 and therefore the criteria for success are slightly different, right, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.360 And this kind of fits into this narrative of him, 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.600 so like I can see what he it is, especially 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.680 in the context of him talking to the Remigration conference. 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.359 For him, it's a win, but for the goals of 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.080 the border patrol at that time, it's not. So he 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.720 cites this at the beginning of his journeyed where he 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.880 is right as a guy they went to for massive 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.280 surges of border patrol agents into cities tearing families apart. 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.440 And I think if we see it the way he 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.320 sees it, then we can see why he sees it 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.000 as a success. But Vino, in his early career had 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.679 worked a lot in the Alcentro sector, right, and ev 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.439 actually became chief patrol agent the l Centro sector. He 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.760 was in Bortac for a while. I've read a Defense 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.679 University paper that interviewed him. He was in Honduras with 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.440 Bortac training border patrol there. 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.959 Oh Jesus Christ. Yeah, I mean everyone should read Empire 0:17:57.960 --> 0:17:59.840 of Borders. Everyone should read Border Patrol Nation. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.360 But like the DHS has done this for years, right, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:07.400 funded armed and equipped and trained border patrol units all 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.399 over the Americas, because that is how America externalizes its border. 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:12.960 Yeah, in a very similar way to the way Europe 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.080 does it with Frantics. And you know, like it deals 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.480 like up with Godarthian and the successive governments and Libya 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.440 and stuff like that. Yes, and the people they're training there, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.280 it's like school the Americas share just like actual monsters. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.640 Like yeah, I mean the Sally Haydensburg My Third Time 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.760 We Drowned is one of the more heartbreaking books. It's 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:31.879 available for a human to read. But like, if you 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:33.960 want to know about the fucked up stuff Europe's doing 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.960 in Libya, it's a good book. Yeah, but yes, you're 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.240 it moves the violence away from the metropolitan, right, it 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.239 moves it further. I've seen this from my own eyes, right, 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.520 I've seen what happens in Panama, not necessarily but the 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.760 actions of any border patrols there, but just by forcing 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.239 people to take that route. Like, I've seen how the 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.600 externalization of our borders kills people. And I have seen 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.000 how the Biden administration funded deportations of people who are 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.159 I can't find any criminal record for. And I have 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.920 seen literally babies taken out of people's hands. Yea, and 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.560 they were deporting young men at that point. But I look, 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.240 I've literally watched families torn apart right there, just after 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.359 crossing the Darrying Gap. And it's heartbreaking. 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:15.800 Yea. 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.240 Talking of heartbreaking, we haven't done ad pivot. 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.840 Oh boy, hopefully these product services will fix your heartbreak. 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:38.000 Yeah, oh god, Yeah, here's an advert for whiskey. Okay, 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:42.359 we are back. So one of the things Bavino did 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:43.760 a light in this into you is he sort to 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.800 kind of distinguish himself from what he calls the status 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.520 quo bureaucrats. He's not wrong that, like one of the 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.320 roles of a chief in a sector is to speak 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.520 to the press. Right. He seems to be very upset 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.679 that Roddy Scott and Tom Homan didn't speak to the 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.920 press when they art to these big operations. He says, 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.960 quote CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott and borders are Tom Hoeman 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.119 not only had no experience was full enforcement of migration laws, 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.360 but refused to speak public ly during operations. Their reluctance 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.040 triggered the unique situation I mentioned above, and neither sought 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.199 nor asked to become the public faith of the operation. 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.160 But for this type of operation there can only be one. 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.720 The responsibility fell to me. When you listen to this 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.560 interviews he did when he was in the patrol, he 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.080 wasn't as critical of his leadership as he is now. Yeah, 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.280 probably for very obvious reasons. But like the let down 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:36.000 by leadership thing is is a thing. We've seen this 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.120 on the right so many times, right. 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:42.160 Yeah, that's the classic backstem, this employed by one Adolf Hitler. 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.560 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, like and in many cases thereafter, 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:51.199 And he kind of seeks in this too to differentiate 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.880 field agents from like what I guess what he called 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.919 status quote bureaucrats. Right, and he is genuinely very popular 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:00.680 among field agents, Like and he did like grow through 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:02.639 the border Patrol, right, Like he's not a guy who 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.639 came from somewhere else, Like he has a thirty year career. 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.920 He's done like mountain interdiction stuff down in the Hookumber wilderness. 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.760 Like he's he's definitely like had his boots on the ground. 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.440 I think they like that, And I think for him 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.680 that gives him like like the he feels like he 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.120 speaks for the border Patrol and that like these people 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:27.639 who are like bureaucrats are what is constraining him and 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.600 his guys from doing what they want to do. And 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.760 like it's really interesting to see determines how he describes 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:34.520 what they want to do. 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:34.880 Right. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.800 He called the withdrawal from Minneapolis a surrender. He called 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:43.480 protesters the opposition. In this podcast I listened to, he 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.600 calls protesters pro fascist, which is very given the company 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.200 he keeps his fucking ridiculous, Like the. 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.000 Other people at that conference can't be happy with that. Yeah, 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.120 that's the thing right, where are the fascists down? 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.400 Yeah, but they're not hiding it. Like it's very interesting 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.000 to see him like not willing to kind of surrender 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.040 that term, you know what I mean, like to not 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:09.720 quite say it at the same time as like, yeah, yeah, 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:11.000 there are other people like conference you are like, no, 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:12.480 where the fact, what are you talking about? They're not 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.560 profascially say haters Like he's still like one step removed 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.640 from joining his buddies there. Another thing I found interesting 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.560 was he says what the patrol is often referred to 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.000 as quote the Federal Law Enforcement Marine Corps. 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:31.200 What does anyone say that I've not heard them say that? Oh, 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.720 I what, I've never heard that. 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.879 It's a very strange. I'm guessing what he's referring to 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:40.440 is like the Marine Corps has these expeditionary units which 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.440 can deploy very quickly to conflict. Though it's like we 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.119 sort in I ran right, like yeah, and I'm guessing 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.800 that's what he means, Like they're the hit squad. 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:50.600 Yeah, they're they're the like, oh my god, we found 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.679 like four children sleeping in a bedroom. We have to go, 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.560 we have to go, sender like tactical squad. After them. Yeah, 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.560 there are there are first line of defense against against 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:03.760 tiny babies. Yeah, and against the Americans exercising their First 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:04.520 Amendment rights. 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:04.879 Yeah. 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:07.199 When people were in the street in Portland, it was 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.560 border patrol. They said, yep, it was poor attack. 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:13.120 Yeah. Yeah, right, they do have something of a history 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:14.960 of being the federal government's hit squad. 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:15.240 Yeah. 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:18.920 When they want to stamp on Americans, they do send 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:23.960 the border patrol. Interestingly, he went on to cite the 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:26.320 old miss Riot. Even know the old miss Riot. 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:29.440 It sounds vaguely familiar, but I'm not sure. 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.800 Yeah, I mean you can surmise what's going to happen, right, 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:34.280 it's a university in the South. 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:35.720 Yeah. 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.560 What happens is that James Meredith, a black man, had 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:42.080 attempted to register at the school several times. He had 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:46.359 been prevented by racists, including the governor, and at one 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.800 point JFK sent Border patrol agents along with federal I 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:53.640 think they were cross sworn as marshalls, maybe to accompany 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:57.879 him to register. They ended up surrounded in the lyceum. 0:23:57.920 --> 0:23:59.800 Twenty eight federal agents were shot. 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:03.000 Jesus. Yeah, this is like they had a fucking fight 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:07.240 about it. Like two of the people surrounded the lyceum 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:09.520 were killed. You know, I'm not sure I've ever in 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.240 my entire life seen a government deployment and thought you 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.000 should have sent the national Guard. But like, yeah, I 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.440 guess you should have sent the national Guard Jesus. Yeah, 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:23.520 but really, I guess love shooting beds to opposed integration. 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:28.359 Yeah, like in this case, they sent the regular ass 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:29.640 army to come get him out. 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:30.520 Yeah. 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:32.199 I think this was the era when they felt like 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.080 national guides in the South were not entirely trustworthy. 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:35.600 Yeah. 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:38.439 Well, yeah, you'd have to do a Trump style like 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.439 we're sending the fucking like California. 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:42.840 National Mississippi or whatever. 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:43.240 Yeah. 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:47.040 Yeah, they normally send like one of those QRSD eighty 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:48.879 second Airborn or something like that. 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:49.280 Yeah. 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:52.159 Wow, I can't believe I'm in a position where I 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:55.040 support the deployment of US troops against America. 0:24:55.160 --> 0:25:01.359 I know, I know, it's it's a wild scenario. 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.320 I guess it's like because they're trying to do a lynching. 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:08.680 So yeah, like in that case, yeah, maybe stop the lynching. 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:11.719 But it's a really interesting choice because he talked He's 0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:13.400 talking about how border patrolls, you know, like they had 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:16.080 this long history of doing this, and again he's not wrong. 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:19.600 And I guess maybe the on miss thing plays a 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:23.080 part in their mythos because they were fighting against the racists. 0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:25.359 I can see why they would want to hold on 0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:28.880 to that. It's interesting to see him doing that at 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:30.080 the racist conference. 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:33.399 Yeah, it's like, oh, no, no, no, we are a different 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:36.399 kind of racist. We are California. We're racist. We are 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:39.679 we are not like the primitive southern racist. We have 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:41.560 advanceder level of racism too. 0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:46.120 Yeah. Like, and he's very popular amongst them, Like, we're 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:49.440 a different kind of racist racists, right, Like the vida tendency. 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:51.800 Is that like quote unquote scientific racists. 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:54.520 Yeah. And but by the way, I want to clarify 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:57.040 before I get screamed that the thing I just said 0:25:57.160 --> 0:26:00.920 was like his perspective, not mine. Jesus fuck these people, 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:02.000 yeah yeah, all of them. 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:07.320 Yeah yeah, yeah, Please don't clip near out of context. So, like, 0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:10.879 he then goes on after he's expended this to explain 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:13.760 like his history of migration. He says that around in 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:17.560 the year two thousand, quote unquote, the floodgates open. His 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.480 basic thesis is summed up in his statement from twenty 0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:23.439 to twenty twenty six. Are borders were nothing but speed bumps. 0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:25.760 Illegals and smugglers need it. Once they cross the border, 0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:27.840 they're virtually saved from any consequences. 0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:29.000 A couple of. 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.640 Things there that obviously includes Trump's first term and part 0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:36.520 of the second term. Amnasia about Trump having a first 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:38.600 term seeds to be quite a common issue on the right. 0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:41.159 It's really astonishing and the left too. I don't know. 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:44.520 I'm either more and more certain certain certain people who 0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:47.200 will go unmentioned, who were working for Blackwater under the 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:48.199 first Trump administration. 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:53.400 Yeah, it's very interesting to see this narrative, but again 0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:57.040 not an uncommon one. Ye, right, Like he talks about 0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:01.080 how he wrote a paper called Illegal Aliens Detraction Natural Resources. 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:04.000 So he has two master's degrees. One is from the 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:06.720 National Defense University, and I'm not sure if that's his 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:10.520 second master's thesis, which it would be. I'd be interested 0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:12.680 to read it, but I haven't been able to find it, 0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:15.840 and I'm not sure NDU makes masters stuff public, and 0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:18.359 I think generally how it works is you have to 0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:20.960 opt to make it public. Like I'm interested to know, 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:23.800 is this kind of eco nativism? Is it like carrying 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:24.560 capacity shit? 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:26.760 Like what, Yeah. It kind of the other thing it 0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:28.600 kind of reminds me is like you get like you 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:31.720 get this from like Scandinavian racists where they're like they 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:33.480 have this line about the welfare state, where like the 0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:35.280 welfare stays of fire and you can only have so 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:36.679 many people huddled around the fire. 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:41.880 Yeah, And it's like, oh, yeah, well, god, we see 0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:43.840 this lean like we saw a lot from Mike Lee 0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:47.720 right when he was attempting another pathetic excuse for selling 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:50.679 off our public lands. Like Lee was saying, how like 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:53.240 so much of our willness areas is destroyed by migrants, 0:27:53.520 --> 0:27:55.439 so we have to destroy them and sell them to 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:59.000 protect them. The logic of Mike Lee is unknowable. But 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:01.879 I'm to read that if anyone, if he has anyone 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:05.120 is like a library Ninjia, get in touch. I'd love 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:09.040 to uh, I'd love to find that out. He spends 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:14.840 a great deal of time explaining his one hundred million number, 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:17.800 and he refers to these people as illegal aliens right 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:20.399 that he contrasts this with the number of twenty million. 0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:22.600 He says that comes from Pew research, and he says 0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:26.199 that it hasn't changed since the nineteen seventies. That is 0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:31.919 not a statistic which is played out in Pew's published documents. 0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:35.440 I'm looking here at a twenty twenty three paper from Pew. 0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:39.360 The number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States nineteen 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:43.720 ninety three point five million, twenty eight point six twenty 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:47.680 fifteen to eleven point zero thanks Obama, and up to 0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:51.560 fourteen million in twenty twenty three. He claims to spend 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:54.400 twenty since the nineteen seventies. Obviously he's not giving a 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:56.800 source here, but he claims Pugh has said that, and 0:28:56.920 --> 0:28:58.960 that's not what I've found from Pew. He sort of 0:28:59.000 --> 0:29:01.280 arrives at his towndred million dollar number. First, he said 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:04.040 he was looking for some stuff from investment bank dere Stearns. 0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:07.960 And what he was looking at, why, yeah, it's very strange. 0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.040 He then goes on to give the only hard statistics 0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:13.960 he gives, and if he's talking about Charlotte, North Carolina here, 0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:17.600 when they were doing Operation Charlotte's Web estimates indicated that 0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:20.400 thirty percent or more of commuters who are no longer traveling, 0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:22.400 This means at least thirty percent of them were most 0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:26.840 likely illegal immigrants. This is based on traffic delays he's 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.000 getting the amount of time people spending traffic jet like 0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:31.920 he's going on Google Maps. This is a massive logical leap. 0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:35.320 He then says that's about a quarter of Charlotte commuters 0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:39.160 thirty percent, not a quarter. And this figure, you guessed, 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:42.000 it fits perfectly with the total of one hundred million 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:43.680 out of four hundred and twenty million people in the 0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:47.560 United States, an estimate that one hundred million are illegal immigrants, 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:50.720 same as the observation for children absent from Charlotte schools, 0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:53.440 more than thirty percent of students were missing. These were, 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:57.360 of course, illegal children or children of illegal immigrants. The 0:29:57.400 --> 0:30:02.840 category of illegal children. Fascinating choice of words. Oh god, 0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:06.480 I'm guessing he's talking about like undocumented kids or kids 0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:08.920 whose parents are ind documents his separate categories there. But like, 0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:11.720 there are many reasons. I don't think we have to 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:14.120 explain this to listeners. Why why some people might not 0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:16.120 have wanted to be out and about or at school 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:19.320 when board patrol and dragging people out of cars and 0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:20.440 smashing their windows. 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:22.400 Yeah, this is an extremely common thing, which is like. 0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:23.920 Yeah, yeah, like not wanting to die. 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:26.120 I want to point this out too, Like they shot 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:28.560 like American citizens. Not not that it's like worse to 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:30.400 shoot an American citizen than a non citizen, but like, 0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:33.600 but they did that. Everyone everyone knew that they had 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:35.080 done that. Yeah, Like they. 0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:38.560 Did that in Chicago. Yeah, like, yeah, they did in Chicago. 0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:40.200 They were going to go do it again in Minneapolis. 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.680 Like yeah, obviously they shot protesters. 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:46.320 They also just shot random people like who they were like, 0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:48.880 oh you're non white, fuck you right, Like it's like 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:49.720 that kind of shit. 0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:52.000 Ye, people who got in most of the instance we've 0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:53.800 seen that what they have said is a person tried 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:55.480 to ram them with their car, and most of the 0:30:55.520 --> 0:30:57.720 times we have seen video evidence, it certainly doesn't look 0:30:57.720 --> 0:30:58.160 like that to me. 0:30:58.400 --> 0:30:58.480 No. 0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:01.880 Yeah, yeah, this idea of thirty percent of students, are 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:05.520 there foreign documented people, that's ludicrous. They were in Charlotte, 0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:09.000 like middle to late November. There's a time when Americans 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:12.840 often travel, don't go to school. Right, They have this 0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:17.360 Thanksgiving thing here and people like to enjoy time with 0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:32.800 their families. He then goes on to talk about the 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:37.160 differences between US and Europe. There's a phrase here that 0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:41.040 I want to read again. I want you to understand 0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:45.120 that this is translated twice uncontrolled immigration to the United 0:31:45.200 --> 0:31:47.160 States now post is the greatest threat to our culture 0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:49.560 in our very existence. This goes for you in Europe too, 0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:52.320 Even when we managed to get past these cumbers in 0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:55.840 bureaucrats and politicians, the grassroots will take care of it 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:59.480 for us. The precise tactics for removing those who need 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:01.600 to be removed may take different forms in Europe and 0:32:01.600 --> 0:32:05.040 the United States. The grassroots will take care of it 0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:09.560 for us is between m dashes. I don't know if 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:13.960 he means the grassroots will vote them out. Otherwise that 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:15.920 seems like a program, right. 0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:20.280 Like, yeah, that's that's not that's not good. Yeah, yeah, 0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:24.320 that just seems like an ethnic Clenson campaign conducted by people. 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.200 I want to be like, like, but because that's a 0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:28.760 really scary concept, right like yeah, but also. 0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:31.520 Yeah, it's an AI translation that was then translated by you. 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:34.080 I don't know, I don't know how your French is these. 0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:37.400 Days, Like French is fine, but like, uh, yeah, I 0:32:37.440 --> 0:32:39.960 forget who said all translation is an act of violence? 0:32:40.080 --> 0:32:43.640 But yeah, like humans doing translation is an act of violence. 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:50.600 AI doing translations is like the fucking future terminator. Yeah, 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:52.720 the machines have killed everyone. 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:56.200 Like yeah, like a lot of really is lost in translation. 0:32:56.800 --> 0:33:00.840 In between the M dashes, the French is labas populai sanchatier. 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:05.920 So yeah, come at me, French speakers. Let me know 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.719 if you think there's a better translation for that. He 0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:11.000 then goes on to try and like not blame Trump, 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:13.440 which is interesting, said, I don't believe Trump has abandoned 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:15.840 his campaign promise. I believe that his advisors do not 0:33:15.920 --> 0:33:18.680 bring him back to reality on the ground, And then 0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:20.520 at skips little here. If I had to do it again, 0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:22.600 I would have briefed Trump directly several times, rather than 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:25.680 relying on this inner circle who might have interests elsewhere. 0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:27.800 Trump is the best president I've ever worked for. I 0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:31.160 believe he will return to that campaign promise soon. Again, 0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:33.120 it's kind of a fatty thing, right, Like, it wasn't 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:35.120 the leader. It wasn't the dear leader. It was some 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:38.280 people who failed to reflect the dear leader's thought. Yeah, 0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:43.640 it's very interesting to see him speaking so clearly this way, 0:33:43.720 --> 0:33:45.520 Like there's two ways he could be going with this. 0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:49.400 He could be angling for his job back, to be clear, right, 0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:52.240 The reason we don't have Norman Baviino anymore, in my opinion, 0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:57.080 is that after Ice and then CBP both murdered US 0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:00.320 citizens and the plain light of day on camera and 0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:04.440 then took to the television to lie about those US 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:08.240 citizens in the hours after they murdered them. They became 0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:10.719 too toxic for even the Trump administration to touch. 0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:14.360 Yeah, they were staggeringly unpopular. Everyone fucking hated them. 0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:14.839 Yeah. 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:18.680 Yeah, you literally lost like the old guys with the 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.799 NRA hats at the gun range who I sometimes talked to, like. 0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:24.719 Yeah, fucking again, I Kiki coming back to, Like they 0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:29.000 lost fucking Kurt Warner, who like is like a quarterback 0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:33.040 who has never once talked about politics ever and is 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:36.160 like like made like a documentary that was like a 0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:39.480 bunch about like his like faith journey, right, and they 0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:43.520 like when when when Kurt Warner is being like, hey, 0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:47.440 what the fuck? Yeah, you've lost your You're losing the 0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:49.040 conservative football guys. 0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.360 Yeah, I mean you shoot a white man on his 0:34:51.440 --> 0:34:54.239 knees in the street in the back, Yeah, while you're 0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:57.400 beating them up. Yeah, that's how you lose Americans. 0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:01.239 Yeah, that's how you lose barstool Like it's yeah, hideous. 0:35:01.560 --> 0:35:05.640 Yeah, he kind of has two choices, right, Like he 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:09.120 can and you can go into the consulting world. He 0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:11.839 can go into the grifting world right and just become 0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:15.440 like a podcast grifter, Welcome to the club. Or he 0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:19.320 can go into politics. And I wonder which, like he's 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:21.440 kind of left two of those pathways open, right, like 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:24.879 he can kind of yeah, podcast grifter or politics. 0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:26.880 Well, and you can do both now too. I guess 0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:29.359 that's true. Yeah, yeah, ce Ce the head of the 0:35:29.400 --> 0:35:30.640 FBI too much. 0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:33.279 It was too much for Dan Bongino. He retired and 0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:33.960 returned to the. 0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:36.520 True I guess, I guess, I guess. I guess it's 0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:40.239 like our noble like Health and Human Services secretary the 0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:44.359 latest shit eating Kennedy or whatever, like you can still 0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:44.839 do that shit. 0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:48.880 But yeah, the serial podcast guests, I just want to 0:35:48.880 --> 0:35:52.799 come back to, like we need to reflect on this now, right, 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.960 like we're doing primaries for the midterms right now. The 0:35:56.000 --> 0:35:59.400 Democrats have doubled down on same old shit almost everywhere 0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:02.080 across the country. We have seen some better candidates, right, 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:05.560 but I understand that the pathway to a beautiful life 0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:08.480 is not through the Democratic Party. But if they are 0:36:08.560 --> 0:36:12.160 incapable of seeing that this isn't something that we can reform, 0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:14.520 if they do what Biden did in twenty twenty, which 0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:17.239 is like, oh, they just need more money. Yeah, this 0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:19.879 ratchet will continue to only move in one direction, which 0:36:19.920 --> 0:36:22.000 is towards a brutalization of more people. 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:27.400 Yeah, just on a very basic level, like, having a 0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.880 massive institutional apparatus that produces Nazis and gives them the 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:32.960 authority to do the thing that the Nazis want to 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:37.440 do is not a way that any kind of democracy 0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:40.080 can survive. Yeah, and that's what we've seen. 0:36:40.480 --> 0:36:42.960 To paraphrase, we have created an entity which you can 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.360 exempt from the law in order to enforce it. Yeah, 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:49.000 we can't keep up with that. And like, now is 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:52.719 a moment I guess that demands bravery and from the Democrats, 0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:57.080 I've seen cowardice. Yeah, and if they continue to be 0:36:57.239 --> 0:37:01.000 cowards right now, we're going to go so far down 0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:05.480 this path there's no coming back. Yeah. And I don't 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:09.560 fucking know, but I think that's something we really need 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:10.319 to reflect on. 0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:16.000 Yeah. We have twenty thousand Bovenos, Yeah, who we've given 0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:18.640 guns and training and authority to. 0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:21.879 Yeah, and who we've allowed to kill people in our 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:23.880 streets and not face accountability. 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:24.399 Right. 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:29.520 Yeah, Like I am not a County attorney appreciated generally, 0:37:29.560 --> 0:37:31.360 but like it makes me bik to see that Hennepin 0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:35.439 County attorney go after the ice agent who shot someone 0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:37.640 through their front door and they lied about it. Like 0:37:38.000 --> 0:37:40.359 if the liberal democracy can't do any of that kind 0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:43.080 of stuff, then it's worthless. It doesn't mean anything anymore. 0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:47.680 Yeah, and it will and it won't be a democracy afterwards. Right, Yeah, 0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:50.600 diet made its own bed to die on. There's examples 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.200 of this fucking everywhere, right, but like, yeah, the Biden 0:37:53.239 --> 0:37:59.680 administration was tragedy is farce of like Ende promoting Pinochet. Yeah, 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:01.759 that's the thing. That's the thing that he did. He 0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:05.640 promoted Pinochet, right, Yeah, Like if you don't get rid 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:10.000 of the people who want to fucking kill you and 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:13.120 you instead give them more power, they're going to fucking 0:38:13.200 --> 0:38:13.520 kill you. 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:17.040 Yeah, And like what Biden tried to They tried pretty 0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:19.359 hard to retire Bavino because he would talk a lot 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:21.799 about the situation at the border and Biden administration, but 0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:22.920 they didn't. 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:25.560 No, they didn't. And then also like they made more 0:38:25.560 --> 0:38:25.879 of them. 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:28.600 Yeah, and also they threw as much money, like the 0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:31.200 money that your kid doesn't get for free meals. It's 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:35.640 because Border Patrol has black Hawks. Like yeah, yeah, that 0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:39.800 was a heartwarming and inspiring episode of It could Happen 0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:44.040 Here podcast about things falling apart. 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:47.319 Yeah, but okay, we beat the Nazis once, we can 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:47.799 do it again. 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.480 Yeah, and Minneapolis beat these people. That's the other thing, right, 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:54.120 Like they won. Yeah, they came out and they stood 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:57.560 together as a community. They didn't focus on trivial bullshit 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:00.360 that divides them. They looked out for one another. The 0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:02.080 Border Patrol thought they were in a battle, and if 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:03.960 they were in a battle, then they did lose it. 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:05.120 They surrendered, right. 0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:06.960 Yeah, And like that's that's also not to say that 0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:09.960 they aren't still like horrifying shit happening there, right, Like 0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:11.080 there's still braids going on. 0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:14.240 You're absolutely correct, Yeah, and that like people aren't dealing 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:17.440 with the many other ills of capitalism in the distance 0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:20.879 that the state it is today. But like, yeah, they 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:24.960 were not able to make those people cower in fear. Yeah, 0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:27.719 and that has shown the rest of the country how 0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:30.480 brave we can be together. And I just don't think 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:31.319 we should forget that. 0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:50.760 Yeah, isis alm Shinrikiu and Christian Signers are at first glance, 0:39:50.840 --> 0:39:54.160 these movements appear to have almost nothing in common. One 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:58.960 is transnational but territorially weakened Tarror Network most active into 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:04.160 twenty and twenty tens. One was a fringe Japanese doomsday 0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:07.920 cult from the nineties, and one remains a powerful political 0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.160 movement embedded in the heart of the US, the world's 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:15.960 premier imperialist power. The ideologies may be irreconcilable, their enemies 0:40:15.960 --> 0:40:19.000 may be different, and their methods even may vary from 0:40:19.040 --> 0:40:23.000 gorilla warfare to political lobbying, and yet they have more 0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:26.279 in common than meets the eye. Welcome toket happen here. 0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:30.120 I'm Andrew's age or andrewsm on YouTube, and I'm joined 0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:36.359 today by Garrison Davis. Hello, Welcome, Welcome. So my goal 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:38.480 is to try and understand these movements through the lens 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:43.440 of ideological total itself, which was a specific theoretical framework 0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:46.840 developed by Robert J. Lifton to identify the outcome of 0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:51.360 a successful thought reform process, characterized by Denis Jewish and 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:55.480 Tim Walforth in on the Edge as a quote mode 0:40:55.480 --> 0:41:00.000 of absolute conviction, which embeds ideas so deeply in people 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:04.960 heads that they grow inoculated against doubt. Ideas cease to 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:08.600 be provisional theories about the world and instead become secret 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.880 convictions dependent on the word of how old authorities for 0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:17.160 their validation rather than evidence quote. Lifton saw the potential 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:21.520 for the emergence of ideological totalism within everyone, but he 0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:25.600 noted quo totalistic convictions are most likely to occur with 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:29.239 those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and 0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:34.759 most ambitious or messianic in their claims, whether religious, political, 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:38.439 or scientific. The eight criteria that he identified for thought 0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:42.279 reform were milieu control, which is the control of communication 0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:46.360 and information within the environment. Mystical manipulation, which is the 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:50.279 orchestrating of spontaneous events to save the group's message. The 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.720 demand for purity, which divides the world into black and white, 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:57.920 good and evil categories. The cult of confession, which pushes 0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:01.439 members to confess past sins, personal feelings to the group. 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.480 The secret science, which elevates the group's dogma to an 0:42:04.560 --> 0:42:08.880 unquestionable truth, loading the language, which is using jargon or 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:13.479 cliches to minimize critical thinking, doctrine over a person which 0:42:13.520 --> 0:42:18.040 subordinates individual experiences and identity to the group's beliefs, and finally, 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:21.480 the dispensing of existence, declaring that only those in the 0:42:21.520 --> 0:42:24.960 group have the right to exist. Now, not all of 0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:27.960 these factors may be at play for each of these 0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:32.000 specific movements that I would have mentioned, but we still 0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:35.200 see the outcome of this ideological totalism in each of 0:42:35.239 --> 0:42:40.239 these movements, to very extent, the systematic erosion of individual 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:45.240 autonomy in favor of an unassailable authority. Whether we're speaking 0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:50.880 about ISIS or Armstriakio, or Christian Zionism within the evangelical movement, 0:42:51.520 --> 0:42:54.640 or in any other case, we will see how movements 0:42:54.719 --> 0:43:01.239 replace individual identity with a collective prograum personae loaded language 0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:06.360 and thought terminating cliches make dissent literally unthinkable where the 0:43:06.480 --> 0:43:10.480 enemy other is manufactured, and where power is concentrated so 0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:14.080 tightly that the leader or the dogma becomes the only 0:43:14.200 --> 0:43:18.400 source of truth. So the foundation of ideological totalism is 0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:23.080 the destruction of nuance. To build a cohesive US and them, 0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:28.400 they must be clearly defined and definitionally polarized. First comes 0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:32.280 the categorization, where the complexity of human identity is reduced 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:36.120 into a single non negotiable trait, be it religion or 0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:40.360 nationality or ideology. And then comes to humanization, which is 0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:44.040 stripping the other of human qualities, transforming them from a 0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:49.440 person into a threat, impure, an infidel, and obstacle. And finally, 0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:53.560 there's enclosure, which creates social or psychological walls that prevent 0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:57.479 the US from interacting with them. This ensures the only 0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:00.560 information the group receives is that of the the others 0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:04.080 perceived malice. In the context of groups like Isis, the 0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:07.680 US versus Them engine is expressed both ideologically and through 0:44:07.760 --> 0:44:11.480 physical violence. By committing acts of terror, the group forces 0:44:11.520 --> 0:44:14.439 the rest of the world to recognize their boundary. There's 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:17.720 no cross contamination to be had with the infidel world, 0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:21.680 no middle ground. You're either a part of their struggle 0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:25.520 for a global caliphate or you're an enemy to be eradicated, 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:31.200 whether you consider yourself a Muslim or anything else. With armsheriki, 0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:35.360 the cults us versus Them engine operated through isolation in 0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:39.960 communes and the severigin of external ties. Them was defined 0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:42.840 as the corrupted world or the spiritually dead, and the 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:46.400 group sought purity and enlightenment, so they targeted the individuals 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:51.480 existing social networks, family friends, mainstream society, labeling them as 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:55.239 sources of contamination by cutting off the member from the 0:44:55.280 --> 0:44:58.160 outside world. The cult en showed that the only reality 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:02.040 that existed was the one provided by the leader. Were 0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:05.680 the political religious Christian Zionists. The US versus Them engine 0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:09.759 is built through a historical and eschatological narrative that sees 0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:13.799 the entire secular world as enemies to the apocalyptic ambitions 0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:18.040 of Christ's return. They are frequently warned to avoid worldly 0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:22.120 influences temptations from the devil that might skew them from 0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:27.000 the righteous path. The other in all these cases is 0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:31.399 successfully stripped of their humanity. The destruction of the them 0:45:31.840 --> 0:45:35.640 becomes a logical necessity for the survival of the US, 0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:39.839 and the isolation ensures the group's total control over an 0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:42.040 individual's interpretation of reality. 0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:46.680 Interesting how all these various cultish elements build on or 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:49.640 use the techniques written about by Karl Schmidt the frind 0:45:49.719 --> 0:45:53.719 enemy distinction, and how like creating groups like this, you know, 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:56.560 you have to choose like a border point, to choose 0:45:56.600 --> 0:45:58.719 the point that determines what we are and what our 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:01.920 enemy is. And then in order to keep your group 0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:04.920 active or like safety, that border has to be moved 0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:07.160 has to always be like like pushing it can't actually 0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:09.560 stay at the same point. And then you see that 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:11.759 movement with all these groups, right, they have this like 0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:15.560 millenari neist like apocalyptic focus, but they're still like moving 0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:17.800 towards this like larger enemy population. 0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:21.240 Yeah, I mean you see it in like I mentioned, 0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:26.600 Isis has erected this barrier that separates them even from 0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:31.000 Muslims who may share some of their other religious convictions 0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:34.120 but do not share their political ambitions. Yeah, you see 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:38.400 what the evangelical movement, which distinguishes themselves from other Christian 0:46:39.040 --> 0:46:44.000 sects as being heretical or not fully committed to the wood, 0:46:44.120 --> 0:46:45.959 or have gone astray in some way. 0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:48.600 Yeah, I mean you can see that with the evangelical 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:51.880 leaders and like the president picking fights with the literal 0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:53.280 pope of the Catholic Church. 0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:58.400 Yeah, I mean, the beef between the Catholics and the 0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:02.200 Protestants go kinda kind of far back. You suppose at 0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:07.400 least share this scripture or this overarch in like religious 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:11.200 room work, and yet there's still a desire to delineate, 0:47:11.360 --> 0:47:15.400 to separate, to define an enemy eaten within that cohort. 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:18.319 And a lot of those like current differences they do 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.160 relate to, like military action in the Middle East and 0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:25.120 what's happening in Palestine, like specifically, and I found out 0:47:25.120 --> 0:47:27.680 to be an interesting connection as you're as you're talking about, 0:47:27.680 --> 0:47:30.640 you know, specifically like Christian Zionists and how the situation 0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:34.279 in the Middle East is extremely important for their apocalyptic worldview. 0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:37.080 And that is like one of the key differences between 0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:41.160 between like evangelical Christians and you know, the current stuff 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:43.400 like that that the Pope is saying, which is uh, 0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:45.680 you know, very much opposed to what's happening in the 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:46.400 Middle East. 0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:51.919 Yeah, because they've constructed this very robust asktsological from work, 0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:54.520 which is the next thing that I wanted to get into. 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:11.920 The language that these movements use helps to control their people. 0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:15.600 They're controlling people not just through physical barriers, but through 0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:17.320 psychological barriers. 0:48:17.440 --> 0:48:18.000 Yeah. 0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:22.560 If you can control the vocabulary available to a person, 0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:25.319 how a person understands the meaning of words, how they 0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:28.520 understand the meaning of their scriptures, you can control the 0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:30.680 range of thoughts that they're capable of having. 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:31.480 You know. 0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:35.400 That was kind of the point that as cliched. This 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:38.640 point is the point that georgioel was making when they 0:48:38.680 --> 0:48:42.239 had the Ministry of Truth in nineteen eighty four. That 0:48:43.040 --> 0:48:46.640 you limit even language available, so that even dissent cannot 0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:50.160 be fully expressed. You don't have to censor anybody because 0:48:50.200 --> 0:48:51.760 you've already censored their minds. 0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:55.960 Yeah, and you see that even their own creation of 0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:58.400 like phrases and terms across all these groups, like they 0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:01.520 come up with specific into a phrase, they just get repeated. 0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:04.840 And that just starts like replacing language if it starts 0:49:05.040 --> 0:49:10.920 filling in the gap of language and communication thought, terminating cliches. 0:49:11.000 --> 0:49:14.480 Exactly exactly thought to any cliches, and also just a 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:18.799 broader cognitive enclosure. So in the case of Shinriquo, you 0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:22.920 had the group using this dense pseudo scientific and pseudo 0:49:23.000 --> 0:49:30.520 religious jargon that blended spirituality quantum physics biology, and those 0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:32.719 who are most elevated in that group were able to 0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:36.080 wield that language and make themselves sound so sophisticated and 0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:40.040 elevated and on a higher plane of truth and reality. 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:42.840 That made it very easy for them to swindle people 0:49:43.440 --> 0:49:47.080 within their circle. It created a linguistic barrier of the entry, 0:49:47.280 --> 0:49:50.560 so that you couldn't participate even in the group's truth 0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:56.040 without committing to the incomprehensible dogma. Yeah, and if you 0:49:56.080 --> 0:49:58.799 don't commit to the incomprehensible dogma, then you just you 0:49:58.800 --> 0:49:59.239 don't get it. 0:49:59.280 --> 0:49:59.879 You're going to be an out. 0:50:00.760 --> 0:50:04.640 You are not enlightened, you uh, outside of the truth. 0:50:05.120 --> 0:50:05.359 Yeah. 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:09.000 And this this is a problem across a lot of 0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:11.520 a lot of different groups and concluding groups that are 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:14.400 not this you know, apocalyptic or or fascist or like 0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:17.839 religiously based. But they even see versions of this among 0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:21.040 like the contemporary left, yeah, which creates like, yeah, this 0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:23.759 like barrier to entry by using certain like phrases like 0:50:23.840 --> 0:50:25.560 academic language. 0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:29.719 Yeah, and and very idiosyncratic definitions of words that have 0:50:30.000 --> 0:50:32.600 otherwise common definitions yeah. 0:50:32.760 --> 0:50:32.800 No. 0:50:32.920 --> 0:50:36.200 And and how much politics is like this subcultural purpose 0:50:36.280 --> 0:50:40.400 of like maintaining a certain like subgroup like a social 0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:44.960 circle versus actually building like mass politics, and how they 0:50:45.000 --> 0:50:49.400 doo syncratic small like purity of groups with their special 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:52.680 language and these like barriers to entry makes it very 0:50:52.719 --> 0:50:56.920 hard to do larger political organizing that actually goes towards 0:50:57.040 --> 0:50:58.200 like a working class movement. 0:50:59.280 --> 0:50:59.800 Yeah. 0:51:00.080 --> 0:51:03.480 Lifting points out that there is a tendency for ideological 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:08.560 totalism in a lot of movements, as we would have mentioned, 0:51:08.880 --> 0:51:11.440 So it's something we have to be on guard for 0:51:11.600 --> 0:51:14.680 if we want to avoid falling into these traps, and 0:51:14.719 --> 0:51:17.080 so we look at the example of a shamikio in 0:51:17.120 --> 0:51:20.480 this case, but isis also has a kind of a 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:26.520 total elimination of nuance through polarized, emotionally charged vocabulary. You know, 0:51:26.560 --> 0:51:28.800 you have the believer and you have the infidel, which 0:51:28.920 --> 0:51:31.960 again includes fellow Muslims. You have the pure, and you 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:36.400 have the corrupt. Every dynamic, every binary is zero sum. 0:51:36.600 --> 0:51:39.680 You know, you're either with the Caliphate or you're an 0:51:39.719 --> 0:51:42.279 enemy of God to be wiped out. And within the 0:51:42.360 --> 0:51:47.080 eschatological framework of Christian Zionism, opposing the apocalyptic and formed 0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:51.960 of geopolitical ambitions is tant amount opposing God's plan. You know, 0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:55.640 it's like, how dare you the uses thought terminating cliches 0:51:55.640 --> 0:52:00.480 as you would have mentioned things like it is written, yeah, revelation. 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:04.080 You know, it's God's will, And there's no way to 0:52:04.120 --> 0:52:07.520 actually challenge their policies or actions in their minds on 0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:12.839 whether it be humanitarian, legal, or logical grounds, because it's 0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:15.680 like you speak in Greek, I mean, doing something like 0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:19.960 that is like arguing with God. It's like attacking their faith. 0:52:21.200 --> 0:52:24.920 And so we also see these movements stripping individuals of 0:52:24.960 --> 0:52:29.000 their agency for the sake of a transaction, the exchange 0:52:29.000 --> 0:52:32.400 of the self with all its very real vulnerabilities and 0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:36.520 mortality and earth limitations, for a higher purpose that is 0:52:36.520 --> 0:52:41.520 eternal and absolute. In the case of Anchinrikio, the destruction 0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:44.799 of this self was achieved through the redefinition of morality 0:52:45.280 --> 0:52:50.320 that used a distorted interpretation of Vadaryana Buddhism and placed 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:55.640 the Master's will above all conventional ethics. To follow the 0:52:55.719 --> 0:52:59.400 Master and achieve spiritual evolution, one had to abandon the 0:52:59.520 --> 0:53:03.279 ego with its moral compass and its human attachments, and 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:07.839 in its place, aumition Q offered the merit of absolute obedience. 0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:12.480 By following their leader's commands, even those of mass violence 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:15.279 that would expose the wider world to their threat, the 0:53:15.320 --> 0:53:18.279 practitioner believed that they were performing a ritual act of 0:53:18.400 --> 0:53:22.680 spiritual cleansing to become an instrument of a higher cosmic order. 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:25.320 You see the same thing with the rise of isis 0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:29.360 the destruction of the self achieved through the total absorption 0:53:29.960 --> 0:53:33.080 of the individual into the monolith. The individuals stripped to 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:37.359 their specific context, whatever nationality or background they may have had, 0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:41.680 and being reduced to a singular functional component of the 0:53:41.719 --> 0:53:45.440 struggle being given up purpose that was compensated with the 0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:50.360 promise of eternal significance, the promise of martyrdom, of fighting 0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:53.840 and dying for the caliphate, and with that the individual 0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:57.520 could bypass the mundane struggles of earthly life to secure 0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:02.440 a place in a permanent divine reaction and the political 0:54:02.480 --> 0:54:06.360 theological sphere of Christian Zionism. The destruction of the self 0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:10.000 has more to do with relinquishing the selfs agency and 0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:13.440 become an instrumentalized for the sake of God's plan by 0:54:13.480 --> 0:54:16.600 Freeman Israel's ascendants in the Middle East as an essential 0:54:16.640 --> 0:54:19.440 precursor to the Second Coming of Christ, and when everything 0:54:19.480 --> 0:54:22.000 in their power to lobby for and support it, the 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:27.400 movement disregards the genocidal costs for the reward being the 0:54:27.440 --> 0:54:31.279 fulfillment of a define apocalyptic timeline. And so in all 0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:34.640 three cases, the follower is convinced that the destruction of 0:54:34.680 --> 0:54:37.520 this world as they know it, and the destruction of 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:40.920 the self within it is not a tragedy, but actually 0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:44.280 a kind of liberation. For all three of these movements 0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:47.160 have been tragedies for the rest of the world. Amishinrikio 0:54:47.239 --> 0:54:51.240 deployed chemical weapons in Tokyo subway system. They killed thirteen 0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:54.960 people and injured over fifty eight hundred others, instill in 0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:57.279 a long term anxiety for those who live in the 0:54:57.320 --> 0:54:59.759 city that their shared space could be the site of 0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:04.160 potential terror and the person sitting next to you could 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:09.000 be the vessel for a hidden lethal ideology. Isis has 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:14.120 forcibly displaced millions, killed tens of thousands, and destroyed ancient 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:17.439 heritage sites, all in an effort to erase the other, 0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:20.680 and the Middle East and Africa in particular continue to 0:55:20.680 --> 0:55:25.520 be scarred by its violence. Christian Zionist ideology has introduced 0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:28.520 a variable to the political equation that is immune to 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:35.080 reason and negotiation, that cannot question its theological justifications. Of course, 0:55:35.160 --> 0:55:39.640 Zionism is not entirely dependent on Christian Zionist support. You know, 0:55:39.760 --> 0:55:44.480 Jewish colonial settlements would have predated British support, American support, 0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:49.880 and Christian Zionist support. But the political cosign that Christian 0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:56.680 Zionists provide within the premier superpower does aid in the 0:55:56.840 --> 0:56:03.280 continued support for the Palestinian genesis. So ideological totalism seeks 0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:09.279 to eliminate pluralism, to eliminate shared truth and to literally kill. 0:56:10.680 --> 0:56:14.160 But we should not view the rise of totalizing ideologies 0:56:14.200 --> 0:56:18.400 as some freak, isolated phenomenon, because it deprives its strength 0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:21.840 from the very framework and conditioning embedded in our existing 0:56:21.960 --> 0:56:26.440 social structures. The mechanisms of miliu control, loading the language, 0:56:26.480 --> 0:56:30.120 and other techniques used by cultic tendencies exist in subtle 0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:34.080 forms within our mainstream institutions. We see the seeds of 0:56:34.120 --> 0:56:37.120 thought or form in the echo chambers of media ecosystems. 0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:40.160 We see the loading of language in the polarized rhetoric 0:56:40.200 --> 0:56:43.080 of politics. We see the demand for purity in the 0:56:43.120 --> 0:56:47.520 most aggressive forms of cultural and religious tribalism. The extremist 0:56:47.840 --> 0:56:52.160 can sometimes be the most honest, uninhibited expression, the natural 0:56:52.280 --> 0:56:57.040 endpoint of our world's authoritarian tendencies and subtle lifelong conditioning 0:56:57.960 --> 0:57:01.200 at home, in the classroom, at work BOK. In civic life, 0:57:01.560 --> 0:57:04.560 we are trained in the soft versions of the very 0:57:04.640 --> 0:57:08.920 deference that totalize and leaders eventually demand. We are conditioned 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:12.759 to respect authority without question, to prioritize the greater good 0:57:12.760 --> 0:57:16.720 of the institution over individual agency, and to accept official 0:57:16.840 --> 0:57:20.400 narratives as the only valid reality. So when a leader 0:57:20.520 --> 0:57:24.520 arrives who promises to replace the complex, messy and certainty 0:57:24.560 --> 0:57:27.680 of our political and social reality with the clarity of 0:57:27.800 --> 0:57:31.640 absolute truth. The most conditioned minds naturally find the offer 0:57:32.040 --> 0:57:35.960 at a seductive and so this disease caught through social 0:57:35.960 --> 0:57:40.160 condition must be treated by a fundamental reclamation of the 0:57:40.200 --> 0:57:44.040 individual's capacity for critical thought and autonomy. We have to 0:57:44.040 --> 0:57:48.520 move beyond the mere consumption of information to the active 0:57:48.600 --> 0:57:53.480 interrogation of it. This means cultivating the ability to recognize 0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:57.080 the traps of thought reform, the logical fallacies, the loading 0:57:57.160 --> 0:57:59.800 of the language, to recognize when an ideology is at 0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:03.439 teens into bypass or reason in fever of or emotions. 0:58:04.040 --> 0:58:07.280 The primary defense against thought reform is the refusal so 0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:12.080 that any authority, religious, pilitical, or otherwise becomes secret and 0:58:12.120 --> 0:58:13.080 beyond question it. 0:58:13.760 --> 0:58:17.200 Yeah, I think that point that you made towards the 0:58:17.280 --> 0:58:20.280 end there, But like this thing just being the most 0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:25.280 visible consequence of the contradictions of our current social system 0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:28.760 is like really important. Is because yeah, I mean, we're 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:32.320 all sorting through the same the same sorts of causes 0:58:32.400 --> 0:58:35.080 that that produced groups like this, or produce the people 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:38.200 that move into groups like this, And we might sort 0:58:38.240 --> 0:58:41.320 these out in different ways, but in the way that 0:58:41.480 --> 0:58:43.920 they do it. It's not it's not fully alien, it's 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:48.040 just it's just a very visible outward manifestation of the 0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:51.760 same sorts of internal contradictions, and like fascism feeds on 0:58:51.920 --> 0:58:53.960 these same things. You can see how much fascism like 0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:57.520 overlaps with a lot of stuff that you're talking about here, yep. 0:58:57.640 --> 0:59:00.360 And it seemed kind of like suicidal tendencies thistructure of 0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:02.080 the self, right, that is, that is dealing with those 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:05.600 with those same sorts of like social tensions and internal 0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:09.800 contradictions that produce like outbursts of antisocial behavior like this 0:59:10.000 --> 0:59:12.440 or in some cases like genocidal behavior. 0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:13.680 Yeah. 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:15.960 Yeah, I think it's very much resultant. Oh, there's the 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:18.320 structure of our old system. 0:59:19.320 --> 0:59:19.800 You know, the. 0:59:19.840 --> 0:59:24.560 Stresses, the anxiety, is the pains and pressure points, and 0:59:24.840 --> 0:59:28.320 you know, we are all different as individuals, and I 0:59:28.360 --> 0:59:32.440 think that some people respond to these conditions in weas 0:59:32.560 --> 0:59:38.000 that are very much either self destructive, externally destructive, or both. 0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:51.360 I think a part of our task in like a 0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:54.600 general sense, is providing some alternative to this. Right, you 0:59:54.680 --> 0:59:57.560 can like look at the way the really like on 0:59:57.600 --> 0:59:59.840 like a global level, like the left has really receded 0:59:59.880 --> 1:00:03.880 a lot in the past fifty sixty seventy years, and 1:00:03.960 --> 1:00:06.680 that that leaves a lot of you know, people who 1:00:06.680 --> 1:00:08.760 are who are trying to look for this for this 1:00:08.800 --> 1:00:11.840 sort of purpose, Right, They're trying to understand the contradictions 1:00:11.880 --> 1:00:15.600 of the world, and there may not be a humanistic 1:00:16.040 --> 1:00:18.600 option for that, so it gets directed into much more 1:00:18.600 --> 1:00:21.520 destructive ways. Sometimes you can see like what happened in 1:00:21.960 --> 1:00:24.600 Rajava with like democratic confederalism as like, right, they they 1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:27.240 actually did that, right, They they saw what was needed 1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:30.440 and they did it. And it's directly opposing the sort 1:00:30.480 --> 1:00:33.480 of alternative version which is which is isis which is 1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.160 like super interesting, Right, but I think we have we 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:39.160 have the same problem here, and but we don't really 1:00:39.240 --> 1:00:42.400 have like a strong, strong, like alternative to that, right, 1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:45.720 like a healthy, a healthy and growing like working class 1:00:46.080 --> 1:00:49.040 movement which it attempts to actually solve the sort of 1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:52.040 sort of problems that are in the world that these 1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:54.680 sorts of other things like feed on. Right, they grab 1:00:54.760 --> 1:00:59.120 onto these onto these very very present problems and apply 1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:03.160 an emotionally soothing a response to it, even if it 1:01:03.200 --> 1:01:04.560 is self destructive. 1:01:05.400 --> 1:01:10.320 Yeah, the work of building an alternative and demonstrating it 1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:12.520 and showing people live in it, I think is very 1:01:12.600 --> 1:01:14.000 very important. 1:01:14.320 --> 1:01:14.960 Yeah. 1:01:15.080 --> 1:01:17.760 I also think that when you consider the fact that 1:01:17.880 --> 1:01:22.240 the wholemark of totalizing systems is the elimination of the 1:01:22.320 --> 1:01:27.400 other and the criminalization of dissent our antidotes, our alternative 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:32.480 has to embrace. It has to be committed to the 1:01:32.520 --> 1:01:36.000 adversity of thought and expression. And I also think that 1:01:36.040 --> 1:01:40.160 it has to be willing to sit with conflict, to 1:01:40.200 --> 1:01:45.200 sit with tensions. Yeah, two, allow them to in ate 1:01:45.280 --> 1:01:47.560 with each other without trying to just override it with 1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:49.600 some false unity. 1:01:50.080 --> 1:01:53.440 Those tensions and conflict are like important, and that is 1:01:53.760 --> 1:01:56.880 how we will develop our thought and develop our movement forward. 1:01:56.920 --> 1:01:58.880 You have to you have to have those tensions. You 1:01:58.880 --> 1:02:01.919 have to have that that conflict and disagreement, which will 1:02:02.360 --> 1:02:04.600 hopefully produce more positive outcomes. 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:04.919 Yeah. 1:02:04.920 --> 1:02:09.880 Hopefully it's it's generative conflict and not destructive conflict. Yeah yeah, yeah, 1:02:09.960 --> 1:02:12.920 I mean, and some conflicts can be generative if we 1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:15.600 accept that they can't be resolved. I think part of 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:19.760 what makes some conflicts destructive is this effort to kind 1:02:19.800 --> 1:02:24.800 of just paint over them with some kumbaya sense of 1:02:24.960 --> 1:02:29.080 oh well, just well, you just unify like that's not consequential, 1:02:29.240 --> 1:02:31.480 or we'll figure it out, or that's just how it is. 1:02:31.520 --> 1:02:34.920 And I think we we act to be willing to 1:02:34.960 --> 1:02:38.760 be uncomfortable with not having the answers, I mean, we 1:02:38.880 --> 1:02:42.440 never having the answers. In some cases. There are those 1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:47.439 who I think will have the capacity to engage into 1:02:47.520 --> 1:02:52.520 de radicalization of ideological totalists. I don't think I'm among them, 1:02:53.520 --> 1:02:55.600 and I think that there are others that we can 1:02:55.680 --> 1:02:59.520 care outreach towards. Yes, I get irritated sometimes when I 1:02:59.560 --> 1:03:04.240 see people who believe that the focus of our attention 1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:07.959 right now, as people trying to build an alternative, trying 1:03:07.960 --> 1:03:10.720 to build a better tomorrow, that our focus should be 1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:14.320 on trying to deradicalize right wingers. 1:03:14.640 --> 1:03:15.560 Yeah. 1:03:15.800 --> 1:03:23.120 The vast majority of people are politically unaffiliated, politically uncommitted, apathetic, disengaged, 1:03:23.600 --> 1:03:27.560 and I think that we can do far more if 1:03:27.560 --> 1:03:30.200 we were to focus on reaching those people and helping 1:03:30.200 --> 1:03:32.840 those people see the problems with this system and the 1:03:32.880 --> 1:03:37.920 solutions that we have on offer than engaging in fruitless 1:03:37.920 --> 1:03:40.600 debate with right wingers or. 1:03:40.880 --> 1:03:44.240 Yeah, And I think that's actually the most effective form 1:03:44.400 --> 1:03:49.200 of deradicalization, exactly exactly. There is a lot of problems 1:03:49.200 --> 1:03:52.600 with the sort of like deradicalization framework that emerge in 1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:55.480 like twenty eighteen to kind of meet the rise of 1:03:55.520 --> 1:03:58.200 like the alt right. A lot of it doesn't work, 1:03:58.280 --> 1:04:00.520 a lot of it can be fruitless, but there is 1:04:00.560 --> 1:04:04.040 like a noble intention behind it, and I think the 1:04:04.080 --> 1:04:07.320 best way to actually do that is by just providing 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:09.920 a healthy alternative that does appeal to most people. 1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:10.240 It doesn't. 1:04:10.280 --> 1:04:12.760 It doesn't need to be catered towards someone who's on 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.320 like the right or like the far right, because in 1:04:15.320 --> 1:04:17.400 a lot of cases those people are suffering from the 1:04:17.440 --> 1:04:19.280 same sorts of problems that the rest of people are. 1:04:19.320 --> 1:04:22.560 They've just found of a false solution for it, and 1:04:22.600 --> 1:04:24.840 so if you're able to provide a better solution, a 1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:27.320 lot of them will move over. There's really very few 1:04:27.320 --> 1:04:30.600 that are like through and tried, like ideologically committed, right. 1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:33.280 There's some, and they're maybe very vocal on the Internet, 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:35.800 but that's that's not actually like most. 1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:40.200 Yeah, and also the Internet is at least half thoughts 1:04:40.240 --> 1:04:43.280 at this point, so yeah, you know, you teach some 1:04:43.320 --> 1:04:45.800 of those Internet discussions with a green as salt in 1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:51.920 terms of being representative of any population significantly. But I 1:04:51.920 --> 1:04:57.240 did have some tips with regard to outreach for those 1:04:57.280 --> 1:05:00.400 who may have a special interest in it or maybe 1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:02.600 have a loved one that they really want to help 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:07.480 where they see being immersed in an ideologically totalistic environment. 1:05:08.160 --> 1:05:12.760 For one, directly, attack in a person's core beliefs are 1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:16.280 going to trigger something called the backfire effect, which is 1:05:16.280 --> 1:05:22.080 where contradictory evidence actually strengthens their conviction because their identity 1:05:22.200 --> 1:05:24.600 is not used to their ideology, so an attack on 1:05:24.640 --> 1:05:28.280 the idea is perceived as a mortal attack on the self. 1:05:28.840 --> 1:05:30.200 Debating them is not. 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:30.800 Going to help. 1:05:30.840 --> 1:05:34.640 It's better to think of yourself more as a connecting 1:05:34.920 --> 1:05:39.200 force rather than a correcting force. Your a lifeline, yeah 1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:42.320 to gently guide them out of their radical mindset rather 1:05:42.320 --> 1:05:46.040 than trying to instruct them out of it. To be 1:05:46.200 --> 1:05:48.680 rate them out of it. And when you notice that 1:05:48.720 --> 1:05:52.360 they're experience and doubt in their ideas, it can be 1:05:52.440 --> 1:05:56.000 very exciting to try and rush in and show them 1:05:56.040 --> 1:05:59.240 the way, but you don't want to overwhelm them. Doubt, 1:05:59.560 --> 1:06:05.040 especially for people immersed in that mindset, might literally collapse 1:06:05.080 --> 1:06:09.200 their entire social and cognitive world. So your focus, I think, 1:06:09.320 --> 1:06:13.000 needs to be unprovided a safe harbor where their doubts 1:06:13.000 --> 1:06:18.440 can be expressed freely, without judgment or any pressure to 1:06:18.560 --> 1:06:22.080 immediately betray all that they've ever known. You also need 1:06:22.160 --> 1:06:25.040 to consider the conditions that led the person into that 1:06:25.080 --> 1:06:27.920 situation in the first place. If you know what they 1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:31.600 were like and what their situation was like prior to indoctrination, 1:06:32.200 --> 1:06:39.040 whether they had certain relationship issues, financial issues, systemic abuses, traumas, isolation, 1:06:39.960 --> 1:06:42.920 some kind of yunin for meaning or purpose that can 1:06:42.960 --> 1:06:47.520 help you contextualize the situation. And while you can always 1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:52.560 fundamentally disagree with their conclusions, it's good to recognize the 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:56.400 needs that drove them to those conclusions. But in addition 1:06:56.440 --> 1:06:58.840 to that, you can try to find out what their 1:06:58.880 --> 1:07:05.360 passions and will or are outside of that doctrine, so 1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:09.840 they have some kind of psychological landing pad if they 1:07:09.960 --> 1:07:12.280 were to escape the environment, so that they're not without 1:07:12.440 --> 1:07:16.000 a sense of self, so they're not floundering for some 1:07:16.160 --> 1:07:21.400 form of identity. These movements and this tendency for ideological 1:07:21.440 --> 1:07:25.520 totalism derived from hierarchy will not be overcome in one 1:07:25.600 --> 1:07:30.040 fell swoop. It is a continuous daily struggle within the 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:33.400 human mind and the social fabric. It's a struggle to 1:07:33.440 --> 1:07:37.680 remain unconditioned by the temptations of certainty, to hold on 1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:41.480 to the messy, the diverse, the complex, to create a 1:07:41.520 --> 1:07:46.440 social foundation of individuals who are capable of saying no 1:07:48.080 --> 1:07:51.160 and that's it for me, or power to all the 1:07:51.200 --> 1:08:09.040 people peace. When we think of globalization, we often think 1:08:09.080 --> 1:08:13.640 of trade and late twentieth century technological interconnection and the 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:18.160 movement of capital. But there was another kind of globalization 1:08:18.360 --> 1:08:22.640 emerging in the late nineteenth century. That was the globalization 1:08:23.160 --> 1:08:27.160 of resistance. In the closing decades of the eighteen hundreds, 1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:31.920 a network of ideas, outlaws, and revolutionaries would emerged to 1:08:32.000 --> 1:08:35.800 challenge the empires of the time. Welcome to Ikarappan. Here, 1:08:36.640 --> 1:08:41.000 I'm Andrew's Age Andrewism on YouTube. I'm joined again. 1:08:40.840 --> 1:08:42.400 By Garrison Davis. 1:08:42.400 --> 1:08:46.919 Hello, welcome again and in this episode, using the research 1:08:47.040 --> 1:08:50.320 of historian Bendic Anderson in chapter five of the Age 1:08:50.320 --> 1:08:53.200 of Globalization, I want to look at this period in 1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:57.400 history where the tools of empire were appropriated by the 1:08:57.520 --> 1:09:01.520 very people the empire sought to suppress. To link anarchist 1:09:01.560 --> 1:09:07.639 prisoners in Monturiche to intellectuals in Paris, to agitators in Cuba, 1:09:07.680 --> 1:09:11.960 to nationalists into Philippines. Now, the story doesn't actually begin 1:09:12.200 --> 1:09:16.679 in Monturige prison in Barcelona, Spain, but a narrative begins there. 1:09:17.400 --> 1:09:21.200 Following the June seventh, eighteen ninety six bomben in Corpus Christi, 1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:25.240 three hundred people were imprisoned in a wave of Spanish 1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:29.520 state repression. Among those caught in the crackdown was Fernando 1:09:29.720 --> 1:09:34.280 Trida del Marmol, a Cuban Creole whose background connected him 1:09:34.320 --> 1:09:38.519 to both Metropol and Colony. His imprisonment was a direct 1:09:38.640 --> 1:09:42.040 consequence of the state's attempt to suppress the burgenin anarchist 1:09:42.120 --> 1:09:45.320 movement in Catalonia. They will only end up fueling the 1:09:45.400 --> 1:09:48.880 movement thanks to the efforts of the radical international press. 1:09:49.479 --> 1:09:52.439 Triedo was a math teacher, which actually helped him out 1:09:52.479 --> 1:09:56.040 when he got arrested, because a young lieutenant warden recognized 1:09:56.040 --> 1:09:58.559 his former teacher and managed to sound the alarm of 1:09:58.560 --> 1:10:01.600 his incarceration. Thurida also happened to be the cousin of 1:10:01.640 --> 1:10:05.719 a conservative senator who used his influence to inshure Trida's release. 1:10:06.479 --> 1:10:09.639 But Trida didn't let these privileges cause him to forget 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:13.639 his less privileged fellow prisoners, because he immediately upon release, 1:10:13.720 --> 1:10:17.519 went to Paris, the city of duality, a city that 1:10:17.680 --> 1:10:21.000 was both the central capital of colonial power and a 1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:25.120 premier global hub for political descent. So then in Paris 1:10:25.160 --> 1:10:28.080 to Reda gained access to La Revue Blanche, a very 1:10:28.120 --> 1:10:31.840 popular periodical of the era. He'd been a recognized writer 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:36.600 from before his imprisonment, as he popularly advocated for anarchism 1:10:36.680 --> 1:10:39.599 without adjectives, and he had gotten into a back and 1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:43.760 forth about workers associations and bureaucracy and propaganda of the 1:10:43.800 --> 1:10:46.439 deed with a cit In gene Grave, who was another 1:10:46.520 --> 1:10:49.679 popular French anarchist of the period. So in Lar Review 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:54.640 Blanche Taeder published his personal brutal experience of imprisonment and 1:10:54.720 --> 1:10:58.640 contextualized it as a broader political indictment by connecting the 1:10:58.680 --> 1:11:02.120 gruesome suppression of descent in Barcelona to the exact same 1:11:02.120 --> 1:11:05.559 mechanisms being deployed in the Spanish colonies of Cuba, Puerto 1:11:05.640 --> 1:11:09.599 Rico and the Philippines. Thus, he demonstrated that repression into 1:11:09.640 --> 1:11:13.599 Spanish provinces was not an isolated domestic issue, but a 1:11:13.600 --> 1:11:17.800 fundamental characteristic of Spanish clonial policy. And this narrative was 1:11:17.840 --> 1:11:20.559 taken up and amplified by the efforts of Philip Fignon 1:11:20.760 --> 1:11:25.120 and Georges Clement Chau. Fili Fignon was an influential art 1:11:25.160 --> 1:11:29.160 critic and prominent anarchist intellectual who helped frame this struggle 1:11:29.200 --> 1:11:33.160 against Spanish repression as a significant moral crisis. He also 1:11:33.160 --> 1:11:38.120 wrote strongly against French imperialism and Revanist nationalism. And Georges 1:11:38.160 --> 1:11:42.040 Clement Chau was a radical journalist and politician considered a 1:11:42.080 --> 1:11:45.240 formidable figure in the defense of political prisoners as he 1:11:45.280 --> 1:11:48.439 had the capacity to mobilize public opinion around issues of 1:11:48.600 --> 1:11:52.400 justice state authority. So together these figures helped ensure that 1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:55.160 the grievances of to Reader and the Spanish prisoners were 1:11:55.160 --> 1:12:00.599 integrated into the global conversation now. Historian Benedict Andersson situated 1:12:00.600 --> 1:12:04.280 these events within the long nineteenth century, which had a 1:12:04.280 --> 1:12:09.040 lot of high profile political violence, specifically anarchist bombings and 1:12:09.240 --> 1:12:14.400 targeted assassinations, which prompted a correspondent escalation in state power 1:12:14.760 --> 1:12:20.320 through much more stringent legal frameworks and surveillance apparatus. Parallel 1:12:20.320 --> 1:12:23.840 to the rise of anti terror legislation was the emergence 1:12:23.880 --> 1:12:27.840 of a new structured infrastructure of descent consistent of labor 1:12:27.920 --> 1:12:31.599 organizations and radical press, which served as a vital nod 1:12:31.760 --> 1:12:36.120 in the global network capable of circulating revolutionary ideas and 1:12:36.240 --> 1:12:40.799 coordinating resistance across borders. In addition to the Montjewish affair, 1:12:41.280 --> 1:12:44.559 the Dreyfus affair would also be amplified by this network. 1:12:44.920 --> 1:12:47.960 The Drefus affair was an incident in French history where 1:12:48.040 --> 1:12:51.240 in eighteen ninety four, a certain Alfred Dreyfus, who was 1:12:51.280 --> 1:12:54.719 a Jewish captain in the French Army, was accused of treason, 1:12:55.280 --> 1:12:58.639 alleged to have passed sensitive military documents to the German 1:12:58.680 --> 1:13:02.519 intelligence services. The evidence against him was largely based on 1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:06.360 forged documents and a high degree of anti Semitic prejudice. 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:10.599 Sir Dreyfus was convicted, stripped of his rank, and sentenced 1:13:10.600 --> 1:13:14.439 to life imprisonment on Devil's Island, but the radical press 1:13:14.479 --> 1:13:18.120 began calling this out, especially when evidence surface suggested that 1:13:18.160 --> 1:13:22.599 the actual spy was another officer, Ferdinand Wilson esther Hazy, 1:13:23.120 --> 1:13:25.720 But the French military high command had covered it up, 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:31.080 suppressing evidence, manipulating corproceedings and intimidating witnesses to ensure that 1:13:31.200 --> 1:13:35.120 Dreyfus remained convicted. A pivotal moment in the affair was 1:13:35.120 --> 1:13:40.000 the publication of non radical Emil Zola's open letter Jacques 1:13:40.400 --> 1:13:44.000 in the newspaper Le Roux in eighteen ninety eight, as 1:13:44.040 --> 1:13:46.679 Zola used the power of the press to directly challenge 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:49.839 the military high command after the real culprit was acquitted 1:13:49.840 --> 1:13:53.240 the day after his trial began. This landed Zola in 1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:56.000 jail for Libel, where he eventually got out on a 1:13:56.080 --> 1:13:58.839 plead you, but it also earned him the tenuous respect 1:13:58.880 --> 1:14:04.040 of some critical left wing intellectuals. Meanwhile, Tereda had already 1:14:04.120 --> 1:14:07.639 left Paris for Belgium, then London, where he made use 1:14:07.680 --> 1:14:10.200 of his contacts around the world to create a coalition 1:14:10.360 --> 1:14:16.400 of quote liberals, freemasons, socialists, anarchists, anti imperialists and anti 1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:21.439 clericals against the Spanish government and especially against Prime Minister 1:14:21.560 --> 1:14:25.799 Antonio Canovas del Castillo, the conservative who was the chief 1:14:25.920 --> 1:14:30.000 architect of the brutal repression of Spanish anarchists, socialists, and 1:14:30.080 --> 1:14:34.000 labor activists. Domestically, his aim was to ensure the stability 1:14:34.080 --> 1:14:38.519 of the Spanish monarchy amidst growing pressures of anarchism, labor unrest, 1:14:38.800 --> 1:14:45.040 colonial rebellion, and American aggression. On August ninth, eighteen ninety seven, 1:14:45.400 --> 1:14:50.920 the Italian anarchist Michel Angiolillo assassinated Canovas. Angiolillo was a 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:54.479 real monarchy hater. He had traveled to Barcelona under a 1:14:54.520 --> 1:14:57.320 fake name and was working as a freelance printer when 1:14:57.360 --> 1:15:00.360 the Corpus Christie Bouman occurred. The city was put under 1:15:00.360 --> 1:15:03.840 martial law and his anarchist friends were incarcerated in Montriche. 1:15:04.439 --> 1:15:07.120 After hearing about how they were being tortured, he fled 1:15:07.200 --> 1:15:10.880 for Paris, was expelled to Belgium, then moved to London, 1:15:11.400 --> 1:15:14.720 where to Reader's agitation against the Canova's regime was at 1:15:14.760 --> 1:15:18.040 full strength. He continued to work as a printer and 1:15:18.120 --> 1:15:21.280 engaged in activism in London for some time, where people 1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:24.000 asked who would avenge those tortured and murdered by the 1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:28.280 Spanish state, including the recently executed Jose Rizal, who was 1:15:28.320 --> 1:15:33.719 a Filipino nationalist. So after hearing this, Anguolil was like okay, 1:15:34.040 --> 1:15:37.439 bet and he makes his way back to continental Europe 1:15:37.439 --> 1:15:40.800 with a pistol in his pocket. In France, he meets 1:15:40.840 --> 1:15:44.600 doctor Ramon Betansis, who was a Puerto Rican physician revolutionary 1:15:44.680 --> 1:15:47.760 who sought the independence of Puerto Rico and the dismantling 1:15:47.760 --> 1:15:48.960 of Spanish colonial authority. 1:15:49.000 --> 1:15:49.680 In the antelites. 1:15:49.960 --> 1:15:52.400 He spent his life country hop in helping the sick 1:15:52.479 --> 1:15:55.280 and flee in Spanish spies, and although he was an 1:15:55.280 --> 1:15:58.400 an anarchist, he was connected with a lot of anarchists, 1:15:58.600 --> 1:16:02.759 particularly French and Italian anarchists, through the heterogenous front against 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:07.679 the Spanish State, against imperialism and monarchical tyranny. The European 1:16:07.680 --> 1:16:11.240 anarchists and socialists found a natural ally in the anti 1:16:11.240 --> 1:16:14.160 colonial movement he was part of, as the liberation of 1:16:14.200 --> 1:16:17.960 Puerto Rico and Cuba would represent a vital blow against 1:16:17.960 --> 1:16:21.559 the same imperialist structures they were fighting to dismantle in Europe. 1:16:22.280 --> 1:16:22.479 Now. 1:16:22.520 --> 1:16:27.200 Bitansis claims he redirected the target of Angolillo's planned assassination 1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:30.559 from the Spanish Queen regent and infant son to the 1:16:30.560 --> 1:16:34.840 Prime Minister, but Benedet Anderson calls this narrative into question 1:16:35.040 --> 1:16:39.639 because there doesn't seem to be any corroborating evidence anyway. 1:16:39.960 --> 1:16:44.960 So Angiolillo gets to Madrid, he learns Canovas' location, he 1:16:45.080 --> 1:16:47.519 stalks him for a bit, and then he shoots him. 1:16:47.560 --> 1:16:50.559 Dead with the pistol he brought from London. In his trial, 1:16:50.840 --> 1:16:54.680 Angiolillo defends himself with reference to Montjuiche and Cuba and 1:16:54.720 --> 1:16:58.719 the Philippines, and says, quote Canova's personified in their most 1:16:58.760 --> 1:17:05.000 repugnant forms, religious ferocity, military cruelty, the implacability of the judiciary, 1:17:05.400 --> 1:17:08.840 the tyranny of power, and the greed of the possessing classes. 1:17:09.280 --> 1:17:13.000 I have rid Spain, Europe and the entire world of him. 1:17:13.479 --> 1:17:16.240 That is why I am no assassin, but rather an 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:20.759 executioner that does coke pretty hard, it does go hard. 1:17:20.920 --> 1:17:21.439 When is this? 1:17:21.640 --> 1:17:23.720 Is this late eighteen hundreds or early nineteen. 1:17:23.479 --> 1:17:28.360 Hundreds, late eighteen hundreds, late teen hundreds, Okay, yeah, So 1:17:28.640 --> 1:17:33.200 after his rousing speech, he was then himself executed at 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:37.200 just twenty six years old. Now beyond being a symptom 1:17:37.400 --> 1:17:43.439 of imperial crisis, Canovas's assassination functioned as an accelerant. By 1:17:43.479 --> 1:17:46.720 removing such as central figure of the political machinery of 1:17:46.760 --> 1:17:49.519 Spain in the midst of its war against the US, 1:17:50.160 --> 1:17:53.640 Angiolillos act triggered the volatility that would culminate in the 1:17:53.720 --> 1:17:58.760 loss of Spain's final colonial possessions in eighteen ninety eight 1:17:59.439 --> 1:18:02.720 Q were the Philippines and Puerto Rico were in the 1:18:02.760 --> 1:18:06.120 hands of the United States, and the bullets that killed 1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:22.200 Canovas just kept going well into the decades to come. Now, 1:18:22.200 --> 1:18:25.040 speaking of the Philippines, we can turn out that Pacific 1:18:25.160 --> 1:18:29.120 node of the movement network, Isabelo delos Race was a 1:18:29.240 --> 1:18:33.679 moderate liberal of his time, somewhat privileged as a businessman, publisher, 1:18:33.720 --> 1:18:37.200 and journalist, but he wasn't afraid to advocate strongly against 1:18:37.280 --> 1:18:40.760 Spanish colonial rule and was arrested in connection to the 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:43.760 Philippine Revolution of eighteen ninety six as part of a 1:18:43.800 --> 1:18:48.599 broader oppression against rebels, intellectuals, and activists. The revolution had 1:18:48.600 --> 1:18:53.400 begun prematurely after the Spanish authorities discovered their plot, and 1:18:53.439 --> 1:18:57.000 so many of the revolutionaries whore imprisoned as a result. Now, 1:18:57.000 --> 1:18:59.640 while imprisoned, Isabello had to deal with the death of 1:18:59.680 --> 1:19:03.600 his wife and was unable to attend her funeral or 1:19:03.600 --> 1:19:07.920 do anything for their children. Naturally, after an experience like that, 1:19:08.560 --> 1:19:11.320 he'll be pissed at the colonial injustices that he and 1:19:11.360 --> 1:19:14.160 his people suffered at the hands of the government and 1:19:14.200 --> 1:19:17.439 at the hands of the religious orders. He demanded political 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:21.440 reform and was met with relocation, first to a Barcelona 1:19:21.520 --> 1:19:26.799 municipal jail and then to the infamous Montuish. While in Spain, 1:19:27.280 --> 1:19:30.000 he met several brave anarchists who had been in prison 1:19:30.080 --> 1:19:35.920 for various crimes, crimes including advocating for Cuban independence, protesting 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:41.040 trials by military courts, and opening secular schools gasp for children, 1:19:41.640 --> 1:19:44.439 which I mean it was Catholic Spain at that point 1:19:44.479 --> 1:19:47.360 in time. Yeah, so that was like the worst thing 1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:51.080 you could possibly do. There were some anarchists who were 1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:54.400 in jail for assassinations, but I mean, come on, what's 1:19:54.400 --> 1:19:56.440 a little assassination between friends. 1:19:56.640 --> 1:19:59.360 I mean the assassination and opening a school I think 1:19:59.479 --> 1:20:02.280 is the same level of danger to the state at 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:02.679 this point. 1:20:03.120 --> 1:20:10.600 Indeed, and these dangerous criminals demonstrated a level of solidarity 1:20:11.240 --> 1:20:15.639 that really inspired Isabello. And while in prison he also 1:20:15.640 --> 1:20:18.639 got access to anarchist literature and was able to take 1:20:18.680 --> 1:20:22.160 part in discussions with anarchists where he learned about their 1:20:22.200 --> 1:20:27.280 rejection of state authority, colonial domination, and class hierarchy. Now, 1:20:27.600 --> 1:20:30.839 in this exile period, I don't think he ever became 1:20:31.000 --> 1:20:33.760 an anarchist, and I mean late in his life. Even 1:20:33.800 --> 1:20:37.200 sued as a senator, but he was profoundly influenced by 1:20:37.240 --> 1:20:40.400 the anarchists and did come to admire them for decades 1:20:40.439 --> 1:20:44.040 to come. Eventually, following the assassination of Canovas and the 1:20:44.160 --> 1:20:48.320 change in government in eighteen ninety eight, Isabello was freed. 1:20:48.960 --> 1:20:51.960 He then moved to Madrid and started a fortnightly publication, 1:20:52.360 --> 1:20:56.120 Filipinas and the europa An Anti Periodist Critique, with particular 1:20:56.200 --> 1:21:00.000 focus on the growing American Empire. And it's funny because 1:21:00.680 --> 1:21:04.160 after Spain lost their colonies to the US, all of 1:21:04.160 --> 1:21:07.960 a sudden, public opinion in Spain started to become sympathetic 1:21:08.040 --> 1:21:10.880 to the Filipino fight. It was like, oh, now we 1:21:10.920 --> 1:21:14.120 could start to feel bad feel you know, the Americans 1:21:14.120 --> 1:21:17.080 embarrassed us, so now we have some sympathy. He applied, 1:21:17.600 --> 1:21:21.479 and so Isabelo criticized America's claim to be liberate in 1:21:21.520 --> 1:21:25.120 the Philippines and Cuba as hypocrisy by pointing to the 1:21:25.160 --> 1:21:29.200 regular occurrence of lygens and racist institutions within the US, 1:21:30.040 --> 1:21:33.480 and he also criticized the Filipino elite for their willingness 1:21:33.520 --> 1:21:37.639 to collaborate with the new colonial rulers. The Philippino Revolution 1:21:37.920 --> 1:21:40.800 was basically over by nineteen oh one, as a key 1:21:40.880 --> 1:21:44.519 leader named Emilio Aguinaldo was captured and had to swear 1:21:44.560 --> 1:21:48.240 allegiance to the US. By the way, Alcuinaldo would also 1:21:48.320 --> 1:21:51.240 prove to be a collaborator later in his life, as 1:21:51.240 --> 1:21:54.599 he worked with the Japanese occupiers of the Philippines during 1:21:54.640 --> 1:21:57.200 World War Two. So it's a Patsma behavior for that 1:21:57.280 --> 1:22:01.839 guy anyway. So after the end of the revolution, Isabello 1:22:01.920 --> 1:22:05.280 decided to finally return to the Philippines to reunite with 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:08.000 the six children he had with his first wife, who 1:22:08.080 --> 1:22:12.400 he hadn't seen in years, and to continue the struggle. Also, 1:22:12.439 --> 1:22:15.960 when he was in Spain, he got married. Isabello arrived 1:22:16.080 --> 1:22:20.559 in Manila with the works of Thomas Aquinas Voltaire, Pedrosph Prudon, 1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:24.960 Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Peter Kropotkin, and Erico Manchester. He 1:22:25.040 --> 1:22:27.799 might have been the first person to bring the works 1:22:27.800 --> 1:22:30.360 of some of these thinkers to the Philippines. And I 1:22:30.400 --> 1:22:33.240 think we kind of understate that luck of the draw 1:22:33.280 --> 1:22:37.400 I suppose when we talk about the movement of ideas 1:22:37.960 --> 1:22:42.200 in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, you know, they didn't 1:22:42.240 --> 1:22:44.479 have the Internet, they didn't have the anarchist library. 1:22:44.920 --> 1:22:45.960 It takes a lot of work. 1:22:46.160 --> 1:22:46.519 Yeah. 1:22:47.040 --> 1:22:49.599 Yeah, they didn't have all these accessible means of learning 1:22:49.600 --> 1:22:52.439 about these ideas. So if you didn't happen to know 1:22:52.560 --> 1:22:55.840 somebody who could bring in that kind of literature for you, well, 1:22:55.840 --> 1:22:57.919 first of all, you wouldn't even know that literature existed 1:22:58.200 --> 1:23:00.479 unless somebody told you about it. Yeah, the access to 1:23:00.520 --> 1:23:05.000 information was severely limited. And so fortunately Isobello brought these 1:23:05.040 --> 1:23:07.080 ideas to Philippines. That he was the first to do 1:23:07.160 --> 1:23:10.160 so in his time. But as we'll soon see, the 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:13.040 history of the Philippines could have gotten in a slightly 1:23:13.040 --> 1:23:15.559 different trajectory if he had not brought in that literature, 1:23:16.080 --> 1:23:20.120 learned about those ideas, started engaging and agitating on that 1:23:20.240 --> 1:23:24.920 basis based on his experiences. I mean, he ended up 1:23:24.960 --> 1:23:27.839 in a Spanish prison, of all places, So the Spanish 1:23:27.840 --> 1:23:30.519 Empire that imprisoned him ended up so in the seeds 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:33.439 for rebellion in the former territory later on. 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:36.559 As it happens, a not uncommon turn of events. 1:23:36.600 --> 1:23:41.760 Actually, indeed, so Isabella pulls up in Manila and his 1:23:41.800 --> 1:23:46.040 reputation as an anti imperialist preceded him. He was labeled 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:50.160 a dangerous anarchist, and it really didn't help that the 1:23:50.240 --> 1:23:54.240 US President McKinley had literally been shot to death by 1:23:54.280 --> 1:23:56.519 an anarchist just a month prior. 1:23:56.840 --> 1:24:00.000 This whole period of time is just while every time 1:24:00.160 --> 1:24:03.360 that that I've done an episode with you about like 1:24:03.400 --> 1:24:06.639 the late eighteen hundreds to early to early nineteen hundreds, 1:24:06.680 --> 1:24:07.759 it's always it's always. 1:24:07.520 --> 1:24:08.000 Stuff like this. 1:24:08.560 --> 1:24:13.040 It's like, yeah, an unbelievable collection of happenings, like like 1:24:13.160 --> 1:24:17.439 history really has such a momentum during this period, Like 1:24:17.479 --> 1:24:18.920 it's it's it's unbelievable. 1:24:19.280 --> 1:24:19.479 Yeah. 1:24:19.520 --> 1:24:22.400 I just I really enjoyed during those connections because I mean, 1:24:23.120 --> 1:24:27.479 he came to Manila with all these organizational plans. He 1:24:27.600 --> 1:24:29.960 was going to start a party, he was going to 1:24:30.040 --> 1:24:32.800 launch a news people but as he pulls up and 1:24:32.800 --> 1:24:36.880 he realizes he's literally on a list. Yeah, you know, 1:24:36.960 --> 1:24:39.400 he kind of had to scrap those ideas and pull 1:24:39.479 --> 1:24:39.960 back a bit. 1:24:40.640 --> 1:24:44.080 And like Lenin's doing the same stuff like in Germany 1:24:44.320 --> 1:24:47.120 and Russia during the same time, like everyone everyone, like 1:24:47.200 --> 1:24:50.519 everyone understands the mission. Yeah, yeah, everyone knows what has 1:24:50.560 --> 1:24:51.040 to happen. 1:24:51.520 --> 1:24:56.000 And this is like before the standardization of passports. Yeah, 1:24:56.000 --> 1:24:59.040 this is before the global visa system, and so people 1:24:59.080 --> 1:25:02.080 are literally just and around. Yeah, I mean, I always 1:25:02.160 --> 1:25:05.400 marveled the fact that Rakamana Testa was like he was 1:25:05.400 --> 1:25:08.559 getting active in Egypt. At one point he pulled up 1:25:08.560 --> 1:25:11.759 in Brazil. You know, everybody has to come to Brazil. 1:25:11.800 --> 1:25:17.439 Eventually he was everywhere, right, and these ideas were everywhere too, 1:25:17.600 --> 1:25:21.320 as a result of the movement of people bringing these books, 1:25:21.320 --> 1:25:25.559 bringing these ideas get involved in conversation. It also helped, 1:25:25.560 --> 1:25:29.280 of course, that a lot of anarchists were printmakers still 1:25:29.320 --> 1:25:47.080 are still. Yeah, many such cases. So Isabelo switched strategies. 1:25:48.000 --> 1:25:50.760 In his words, he took advantage of the occasion to 1:25:50.800 --> 1:25:53.360 put into practice the good ideas that he had learned 1:25:53.360 --> 1:25:56.439 from the anarchists of Barcelona who were imprisoned with him 1:25:56.439 --> 1:25:59.920 in the infamous Fortress of Montrige. So he started organ 1:26:00.320 --> 1:26:03.280 in the working class in Manila. He had the benefit 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:06.240 of actually being able to speak the language of the 1:26:06.280 --> 1:26:09.240 swaths of workers in Manila because he happened to come 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:13.920 from the same region of the fastly linguistically diverse Philippines 1:26:13.920 --> 1:26:17.479 that they did. He was from the ilocost region of 1:26:17.520 --> 1:26:22.160 the island of Luzon, and he natively spoke the Ilocano language, 1:26:22.200 --> 1:26:24.719 like many of the workers that had migrated to Milan. 1:26:25.120 --> 1:26:28.920 Though he was technically part of the intelligence here, Isabello 1:26:29.040 --> 1:26:32.200 had a connection to the roots, you know, to the 1:26:32.240 --> 1:26:36.160 people streets, and so he began by organizing the printers, 1:26:36.520 --> 1:26:40.639 of course, and helping them with their strikes, and from 1:26:40.720 --> 1:26:43.960 their the efforts very quickly snowballed far quicker than the 1:26:44.000 --> 1:26:48.640 elites could have anticipated into a cross industry worker federation 1:26:49.240 --> 1:26:53.679 called the Union Obrera Democratica, the first of its kind 1:26:53.840 --> 1:26:58.439 in the entire country. The federation was flexible and loosely structured, 1:26:58.479 --> 1:27:01.680 which made it quite suited to under taken various strike actions. 1:27:02.080 --> 1:27:06.479 But beyond demonstrations and strikes, Isabello also incorporated a little 1:27:06.680 --> 1:27:11.000 local flavor because the union was also involved in festivals 1:27:11.080 --> 1:27:14.679 and theater and music events, so it was a combination 1:27:14.800 --> 1:27:17.960 of worker and non worker based organization. You get a 1:27:18.000 --> 1:27:20.840 little bit of everybody involved when you do that, rather 1:27:20.880 --> 1:27:26.000 than strictly focusing on just one plane of struggle and connection. Eventually, however, 1:27:26.080 --> 1:27:29.240 the Americans got their act together and met this movement 1:27:29.360 --> 1:27:33.599 with surveillance, arrest and trials, and though they couldn't legally 1:27:33.720 --> 1:27:36.599 justify keeping him in jail for very long. They did 1:27:37.160 --> 1:27:40.840 throw Isabello back into jail for a short period. Now, 1:27:40.920 --> 1:27:45.200 the Worker Federation would eventually collapse, but the ideas remained, 1:27:45.520 --> 1:27:50.719 and those ideas fed directly into various labor organizations, socialist parties, 1:27:51.080 --> 1:27:55.800 and gorilla movements going forward. As for Isabello, his second wife, 1:27:55.840 --> 1:27:59.400 the one he married in Spain, died and two years 1:27:59.439 --> 1:28:04.920 later he married again. Twenty eighteen year old Isabello married 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:08.960 and was widowed three times. He actually outlived all of 1:28:08.960 --> 1:28:13.240 his wives and had a grand total of twenty seven children. 1:28:13.720 --> 1:28:15.960 Jesus Christ. 1:28:16.760 --> 1:28:20.200 Yeah, I have no comments on what kind of father 1:28:20.280 --> 1:28:22.559 he may have been, but that's just. 1:28:23.280 --> 1:28:25.080 I mean, yeah, you can you can kind of assume 1:28:25.080 --> 1:28:28.200 based on those numbers, but yeah, that is what it is. 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:31.080 And the fact that he was he was in Spain, 1:28:31.360 --> 1:28:34.360 got married in Spain, had six children back home who 1:28:35.040 --> 1:28:37.400 had lost their mother. Yeah, I mean, he wasn't in 1:28:37.439 --> 1:28:39.920 Spain by choice, right, But yeah, you know, he was 1:28:39.960 --> 1:28:42.320 middle class, so he may have had family back at 1:28:42.360 --> 1:28:45.160 home taken care of his children, but still as rough. 1:28:46.120 --> 1:28:47.639 Yeah, that is rough. 1:28:48.280 --> 1:28:52.320 So later on his life, like I mentioned before, he 1:28:52.360 --> 1:28:55.840 got into electoral politics on the municipal level, and the 1:28:55.880 --> 1:28:59.000 Senate level. And he also in his life got to 1:28:59.080 --> 1:29:02.920 work in religious reform, eventually found in the Aglipayan Church, 1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:07.439 which was the first ever Philipino independent Catholic Christian church. 1:29:07.960 --> 1:29:10.120 Yeah, I was I was wondering because, like you you mentioned, 1:29:10.160 --> 1:29:11.800 he brought over Thomas Aquinas. 1:29:12.120 --> 1:29:12.360 Yeah. 1:29:13.040 --> 1:29:16.000 Yeah, he was very critical of the religious orders, the 1:29:16.800 --> 1:29:20.280 Spanish Catholic religious orders. But yeah, he ended up forming 1:29:20.280 --> 1:29:23.080 an independent Catholic church, so a Catholic church that is 1:29:23.120 --> 1:29:24.599 not associated with Rome. 1:29:26.000 --> 1:29:28.920 You said he didn't identify as an anarchist. Did he 1:29:28.920 --> 1:29:31.439 identify as like a socialist? Like what kind of was 1:29:31.479 --> 1:29:35.280 his like self defined politics like around around this point 1:29:35.320 --> 1:29:37.400 and like when he started running for office on the 1:29:37.439 --> 1:29:38.120 municipal level. 1:29:38.479 --> 1:29:41.120 I didn't see how he defined himself. I think he 1:29:41.200 --> 1:29:45.320 considered himself to be a patriot, you know, a patriot 1:29:45.760 --> 1:29:48.280 somebody who is pro labor. I don't know that he 1:29:48.320 --> 1:29:52.760 assigned himself necessarily the title of socialist or anarchist or 1:29:52.800 --> 1:29:53.920 liberal or anything like that. 1:29:54.600 --> 1:29:56.479 Yeah, he has. 1:29:56.400 --> 1:30:00.000 However, been called the father of the Philippine Mabe movie 1:30:00.080 --> 1:30:04.280 mount and the father of Filipino socialism. But what do 1:30:04.320 --> 1:30:06.800 we take from all of this? You know, the empire, 1:30:07.520 --> 1:30:13.599 my globalized trade, my globalized capital mic globalize various forms 1:30:13.640 --> 1:30:19.520 of suppression, but it inevasively globalizes resistance. The same infrastructure 1:30:19.520 --> 1:30:25.559 that empires used to extend their reach across their claimed 1:30:25.600 --> 1:30:28.840 territories is the same infrastructure that radicals can use to fight. 1:30:29.680 --> 1:30:33.599 You know, even prison was used as a site of connection, 1:30:34.240 --> 1:30:38.120 a literal place of oppression, became a place that connected 1:30:38.200 --> 1:30:43.920 people across multiple countries. I think the lesson that I 1:30:44.000 --> 1:30:48.720 take away from this kind of narrative I've spun here 1:30:48.760 --> 1:30:53.599 between the Cuban and Creole Fernando Tider, the Puerto Rican 1:30:53.680 --> 1:30:59.719 doctor Ramonetansis, the Italian Michelle Angiolillo, and the Filipino Isabelo 1:30:59.720 --> 1:31:06.160 Delo race is that the globalization was not a one 1:31:06.240 --> 1:31:13.080 way imposition. We could potentially adopt the empire's tools to 1:31:13.160 --> 1:31:15.960 fight back and to network or resistance. 1:31:16.320 --> 1:31:19.719 People who are doing resistance but on the other side 1:31:19.720 --> 1:31:22.680 of the political spectrum do this same thing. Like the 1:31:22.720 --> 1:31:26.520 formation of isis in prisons because of how we imprisoned 1:31:26.680 --> 1:31:31.839 all kind of members is a pretty key example of this. Yeah, 1:31:32.000 --> 1:31:34.760 this is a very common thing. Like it turns out, 1:31:35.120 --> 1:31:38.360 very very often the master's tools actually are used to 1:31:38.400 --> 1:31:42.160 dismantle the master's house. That that phrase still has some 1:31:42.240 --> 1:31:46.360 like I think metaphorical uses, but in the in a 1:31:46.400 --> 1:31:51.280 sort of like literalist sense. I occasionally push back on it, 1:31:51.360 --> 1:31:54.760 because yeah, it does. It does view movement as a 1:31:54.760 --> 1:31:56.600 one way thing, and it has it has like no 1:31:56.680 --> 1:32:00.200 dialectical analysis, and I think part of part of our 1:32:00.280 --> 1:32:04.840 job is like adapting it and moving as empire and 1:32:05.040 --> 1:32:08.880 capital adapts and moves to the flow of history one. 1:32:10.600 --> 1:32:17.000 And with that, as always all power to all the people. Peace, 1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:30.959 Hello everyone, and welcome. 1:32:30.760 --> 1:32:32.880 To it could happened here. My name is Dan al Kurd. 1:32:32.960 --> 1:32:35.799 I'm a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics, 1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:39.080 and today I have with me Andrew Lever. Andrew liber 1:32:39.120 --> 1:32:41.200 is a non resident scholar in the Carnegab of Elie 1:32:41.280 --> 1:32:44.800 Program and an assistant professor in Tulane University's Department of 1:32:44.800 --> 1:32:48.120 Political Science and their Middle East and North Africa Studies Program. 1:32:48.320 --> 1:32:50.960 His research and teaching focuses on the domestic politics and 1:32:51.000 --> 1:32:53.400 international relations of the Middle East and North Africa region, 1:32:53.760 --> 1:32:56.479 with that particular focus on Saudi Arabia. Andrew, thanks so 1:32:56.520 --> 1:32:59.439 much for joining us. Thanks for having me so I 1:32:59.479 --> 1:33:02.519 wanted to have on today because well the war and iron, 1:33:02.880 --> 1:33:05.280 but also because I think there's been a lot of 1:33:05.360 --> 1:33:09.679 reporting and some that's not very well sourced in mainstream media, 1:33:09.800 --> 1:33:13.360 like the New York Times about the GCC states GCC 1:33:13.400 --> 1:33:17.200 Golf Cooperation Council, so the Arab Golf States, about their 1:33:17.240 --> 1:33:20.479 motivations and the actions of the Golf States during this war. 1:33:20.720 --> 1:33:22.760 I think that there's been a lot of obfuscation for 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:25.360 a variety of reasons. So I wanted to bring you 1:33:25.400 --> 1:33:28.880 on giving your expertise to kind of clarify fact from 1:33:28.920 --> 1:33:32.320 fiction on some of that. We're recording May twenty eighth, 1:33:32.360 --> 1:33:35.160 so maybe people have seen this. Trump also recently threatened 1:33:35.160 --> 1:33:39.679 to bomb Aman who were acting as mediators initially. So yeah, 1:33:39.680 --> 1:33:42.160 I wanted to go through all the main GCC actors 1:33:42.200 --> 1:33:45.719 and get your analysis of their behavior during this war, 1:33:46.160 --> 1:33:47.639 what they want to happen when it's over. 1:33:48.240 --> 1:33:49.400 Sure, I'm happy to do so. 1:33:49.720 --> 1:33:51.960 I think one thing that has been a little hard 1:33:51.960 --> 1:33:54.920 for people to follow maybe has been the tendency for 1:33:55.200 --> 1:33:58.400 US and English language media outlistens talked about the Gulf 1:33:58.479 --> 1:34:01.800 States or the g States are they want from this conflict. 1:34:01.880 --> 1:34:03.720 But even heading into. 1:34:03.439 --> 1:34:06.920 This war, there were already key differences among these countries. 1:34:07.080 --> 1:34:11.519 There was a diplomatic and increasingly potentially a military rift 1:34:11.560 --> 1:34:14.600 between Saudi Arabia and the neighboring. 1:34:14.400 --> 1:34:15.640 United Arab Emirates. 1:34:15.800 --> 1:34:18.760 There have been past disputes between different cult countries as well, 1:34:19.120 --> 1:34:21.920 and even though initially the Iran War seemed like it 1:34:21.960 --> 1:34:25.639 would paper over the cracks in these divisions, in many ways, 1:34:25.680 --> 1:34:29.840 it's also deepened the divides as different countries have interpreted 1:34:30.320 --> 1:34:33.559 the threats posed by Iron and by Israel and potentially 1:34:33.600 --> 1:34:37.200 even the United States in different ways. So at present 1:34:37.280 --> 1:34:40.880 we can maybe think of three broad camps within the GCC. 1:34:41.040 --> 1:34:44.360 So there's Study Arabia, the largest by land mass of 1:34:44.400 --> 1:34:47.840 these countries, and to a lesser extent, Kuwait and also 1:34:47.960 --> 1:34:51.599 Kutar have taken the approach of trying to just get 1:34:51.600 --> 1:34:54.839 things back to quote unquote normal or like a new normal, 1:34:55.360 --> 1:34:59.760 supporting mediation efforts by other countries like Pakistan, and now 1:35:00.160 --> 1:35:03.800 for Kutar increasingly engaged in direct mediation to try to 1:35:03.840 --> 1:35:07.840 lock in some kind of agreement that restores flows of 1:35:07.960 --> 1:35:10.120 energy and other goods in and out of the Strait 1:35:10.160 --> 1:35:12.599 of Horus, the key body of water that. 1:35:12.560 --> 1:35:14.599 Allows things in and out of the Persian Gulf. 1:35:15.080 --> 1:35:17.799 You are then in one direction, you have the United 1:35:17.920 --> 1:35:21.639 Arab Empirates, which has presented itself as kind of much 1:35:21.680 --> 1:35:25.680 more hawkish in terms of its willingness to potentially use 1:35:25.800 --> 1:35:29.439 military force against Iran or to join the United States 1:35:29.479 --> 1:35:32.080 in a military effort to open the Strait of Hormuz. 1:35:32.640 --> 1:35:35.880 In the past few days it's been quietly walking back 1:35:36.000 --> 1:35:38.080 some of those positions, but it has tried to drag 1:35:38.120 --> 1:35:42.240 our contrast between its more assertive stance towards Irani and 1:35:42.320 --> 1:35:46.000 actions in the region and Saudi Arabia, and then the 1:35:46.000 --> 1:35:48.280 other direction has discussed we have a soult minival mind 1:35:48.360 --> 1:35:51.080 which leaned much further in the other direction during the war, 1:35:51.200 --> 1:35:54.719 being the only country that criticized openly from the start 1:35:55.160 --> 1:35:58.240 both the US and Israeli led attacks on Iran and 1:35:58.320 --> 1:36:00.960 Iran's reprisals on the other side of the gold Amani 1:36:01.040 --> 1:36:05.479 foreign Minister Balbusaid went on US television prior to the 1:36:05.520 --> 1:36:08.840 war to make the case that this was the possible 1:36:09.280 --> 1:36:11.320 ongoing talks be in the US and Iran could bear 1:36:11.400 --> 1:36:15.080 fruit that was unsuccessful as an intervention, but also Allmandi 1:36:15.120 --> 1:36:18.400 diplomats at various points have offered much more critical commentary 1:36:18.400 --> 1:36:21.040 of the United States, but they have likewise kind of 1:36:21.080 --> 1:36:24.080 walked that back or at least not emphasized it as 1:36:24.120 --> 1:36:27.400 much in recent weeks. But clearly there is a narrative 1:36:27.439 --> 1:36:30.120 critical of ver role that circulates in some parts of DC, 1:36:30.400 --> 1:36:33.320 which percolated its way up into the President saying, well, 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:36.719 if if Aman is not going to cooperate with certain things, 1:36:36.800 --> 1:36:39.679 then you will just bomb them until they do, which 1:36:40.080 --> 1:36:43.080 you know is not the nicest way to ask for 1:36:43.120 --> 1:36:46.200 the cooperation of other countries and a sensitive geopolitical issue, but. 1:36:46.280 --> 1:36:49.599 So it goes right, we're not the most effective these days, 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:53.120 let's say. Yeah, So thank you for kind of laying 1:36:53.160 --> 1:36:56.559 that out. There are so many questions I have. I 1:36:56.600 --> 1:36:59.760 want to talk about kind of how Saudi Arabia and 1:37:00.240 --> 1:37:03.200 Arab Immirates you've already mentioned, differ on this issue, but 1:37:03.240 --> 1:37:06.559 also like how their differences speak to different visions for 1:37:06.640 --> 1:37:09.880 the region, especially visa the Israel. But also just like 1:37:10.040 --> 1:37:12.400 before we get to that, there's been a lot of 1:37:12.439 --> 1:37:16.120 reporting about how Saudi Arabia is like secretly really gung 1:37:16.200 --> 1:37:18.920 home about the war and it is encouraging the Trump 1:37:18.920 --> 1:37:21.240 administration to be more aggressive. 1:37:21.600 --> 1:37:23.240 What weight do you put on those reports. 1:37:23.640 --> 1:37:25.559 Yeah, I mean those have been around since the start 1:37:25.600 --> 1:37:28.959 of the conflict. I'll preface this while giving a major caveat, 1:37:29.000 --> 1:37:31.160 which is that every week that goes by, we learn 1:37:31.240 --> 1:37:33.280 more about what we didn't know earlier in the war. 1:37:33.520 --> 1:37:35.920 Like you know, we know now that both the UA 1:37:36.080 --> 1:37:39.280 and Saudi Arabia have carried out airstrikes on Iran at 1:37:39.320 --> 1:37:41.439 certain points that they didn't publicize that. 1:37:41.920 --> 1:37:43.160 But I'm broadly skeptical of. 1:37:43.160 --> 1:37:46.640 Accounts that Saudi Arabia and specifically Crown Prince Mouhammad bin 1:37:46.680 --> 1:37:50.040 Solman advocated for this war, pushed for the war. Saudi 1:37:50.080 --> 1:37:53.440 Arabia and Iran have not always had very great relations, 1:37:53.479 --> 1:37:58.440 but they nominally re established diplomatic ties in twenty twenty. 1:37:58.040 --> 1:38:01.679 Three, and generally, I think so do your AB's views. 1:38:01.800 --> 1:38:05.360 They want to keep the geopolitical peace and the surrounding 1:38:05.600 --> 1:38:09.479 neighborhood because otherwise Saudi Arabia can't get the kind of 1:38:09.560 --> 1:38:13.160 foreign investment or the kind of economic partnerships it needs 1:38:13.520 --> 1:38:17.439 to generate economic growth and employ its citizen population. A 1:38:17.520 --> 1:38:20.880 major political concern, and I think even the United Air 1:38:20.960 --> 1:38:22.280 Memorates prior to this war. 1:38:22.160 --> 1:38:24.160 Was not pushing for it actively. 1:38:24.600 --> 1:38:26.840 I think these countries also don't want to tell, with 1:38:26.920 --> 1:38:28.680 the possible exception of them, I don't want to tell 1:38:28.680 --> 1:38:32.960 President Trump no directly. So my understanding of things is 1:38:33.000 --> 1:38:36.240 that everything prior to the war was phrased and a 1:38:36.360 --> 1:38:39.200 kind of conditional. We would recommend you don't do this, 1:38:39.400 --> 1:38:41.519 but just make sure if you just think this is 1:38:41.520 --> 1:38:44.640 a good idea that you can militarily defeat around in 1:38:44.640 --> 1:38:47.880 a rather quick and decisive fashion. Of course, that bank 1:38:48.000 --> 1:38:51.479 on the United States is current policymakers having an accurate 1:38:51.560 --> 1:38:54.559 view of their own capabilities, which seemed to be not 1:38:54.640 --> 1:38:58.599 a correct assumption. But I think that also during the war, 1:38:58.720 --> 1:39:01.120 you had a kind of a panic in different directions, 1:39:01.120 --> 1:39:03.000 like a belief that, well, I guess if the United 1:39:03.000 --> 1:39:05.400 States has gone to war clearly, then they can solve 1:39:05.439 --> 1:39:07.960 this militarily, right. So I think you had some leaders, 1:39:08.200 --> 1:39:10.680 especially the United Air Memorates, pushing the United States to 1:39:10.760 --> 1:39:13.920 like finish the job, don't leave the conflict in a 1:39:14.000 --> 1:39:17.000 state where it's very clear that the United States can 1:39:17.080 --> 1:39:20.599 militarily force Iron to do certain things. But you also 1:39:20.680 --> 1:39:24.479 haven't kind of secured meaningful concessions from Iran, and that 1:39:24.520 --> 1:39:27.040 I think is I guess one thing that the units 1:39:27.080 --> 1:39:29.200 of the DCC states now again with the possible exception 1:39:29.240 --> 1:39:32.559 of Oman, is concerned about where they get left if. 1:39:32.479 --> 1:39:33.920 There is any kind of deal. 1:39:33.960 --> 1:39:36.040 It's very clear that they do not have to see 1:39:36.080 --> 1:39:38.880 at the table in terms of these negotiations. And there's 1:39:38.920 --> 1:39:42.320 certainly a lot of complaints online or in media outputs 1:39:42.320 --> 1:39:44.639 and the Gulf about that fact, but it doesn't change 1:39:44.680 --> 1:39:48.519 the reality that these are US around negotiations with maybe 1:39:48.720 --> 1:39:52.840 some consultation with Israel, you know, maybe some communication with Saudiriba, 1:39:52.920 --> 1:39:53.479 with the UE. 1:39:53.439 --> 1:39:55.360 But not a ton of consultation of them. 1:39:56.040 --> 1:39:59.080 And just to be clear, they've paid the brunt of 1:39:59.120 --> 1:40:02.640 the price here, and Iran has attacked civilian infrastructure and 1:40:02.680 --> 1:40:04.559 desalination plants and all those things. 1:40:04.960 --> 1:40:06.640 Yeah, no, I mean Iran calculated. 1:40:06.800 --> 1:40:09.600 I think, well, we could attack Israel, but most of 1:40:09.640 --> 1:40:12.320 the rockets and missiles be shot down Israel's farther away. 1:40:12.320 --> 1:40:14.519 It's harder to hit them with a larger payload, whereas 1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:16.719 you can hit a lot of infrastructure in the Gulf. 1:40:16.760 --> 1:40:18.880 It's been very clear that are on targeted not only 1:40:18.840 --> 1:40:22.360 the US military bases, but also civilian infrastructure in an 1:40:22.360 --> 1:40:24.719 attempt to put a lot of economic pressure on these countries, 1:40:24.800 --> 1:40:28.360 especially the UAE, and even countries that had sought to 1:40:28.560 --> 1:40:32.360 mediate between the conflict there had been more openly critical 1:40:32.360 --> 1:40:36.200 of any US military adventurism. Like Katar basically have their 1:40:36.320 --> 1:40:39.040 entire economy frozen right now because they can get very 1:40:39.040 --> 1:40:41.880 little of the liquid natural gas they produce in or out. 1:40:41.920 --> 1:40:44.839 Same thing with Kwait, same thing with Bahrain. One interesting, 1:40:45.000 --> 1:40:47.200 maybe unintended consequence of this, though, is that some of 1:40:47.200 --> 1:40:50.320 the Goal States are doing better than others economically from this. 1:40:50.720 --> 1:40:55.120 Sauburi and the UAE have made up a significant portion 1:40:55.240 --> 1:40:58.639 of the ground loss from lost oil exports because they 1:40:58.640 --> 1:41:02.400 can export some oil over land, and Oman is exporting 1:41:02.479 --> 1:41:05.000 a Battle's montroial as before, but at a much higher price, 1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:08.160 so economically or even doing perhaps better. But yeah, these 1:41:08.200 --> 1:41:10.640 are the countries that have primarily hid the price in 1:41:10.720 --> 1:41:13.960 direct terms, and then by extension, every country that relies 1:41:14.080 --> 1:41:16.920 on their energy supplies is also paying the price in 1:41:17.000 --> 1:41:21.680 terms of higher costs for cooking gas, diesel, fertilizer, and 1:41:21.720 --> 1:41:22.080 so on. 1:41:22.760 --> 1:41:36.240 Right, really, this is an American Israeli war, even if 1:41:36.280 --> 1:41:39.040 the United States kind of holds the final say, but 1:41:39.360 --> 1:41:41.920 you know, recently on social media and in a number 1:41:41.920 --> 1:41:45.240 of repeated statements President Trump himself and his administration, I've 1:41:45.240 --> 1:41:48.320 talked about the Abraham Accords, a normalization with Israel, tying 1:41:48.360 --> 1:41:51.680 it into possible outcomes for this war. How do you 1:41:51.720 --> 1:41:52.200 explain that. 1:41:52.800 --> 1:41:55.000 I'm sure your audience is just familiar with the Abraham Accords, 1:41:55.000 --> 1:41:58.120 but the diplomatic normalization between the Ua, Bahrain and some 1:41:58.160 --> 1:42:00.280 other countries and Israel back in twenty two twenty. 1:42:00.600 --> 1:42:02.599 I think for President Trump this is motive. 1:42:02.680 --> 1:42:04.920 Talking about this now is motivated by a sense of, 1:42:05.160 --> 1:42:07.360 you know, there's a real loss of faith and status 1:42:07.360 --> 1:42:09.120 by having talked about how he was going to have 1:42:09.160 --> 1:42:11.880 this decisive victory against Iran and then it being a 1:42:12.080 --> 1:42:14.800 disaster on every single front. So I think there's now 1:42:14.840 --> 1:42:16.720 going to be a hunt for like some other kind 1:42:16.760 --> 1:42:17.720 of quick win that. 1:42:17.680 --> 1:42:18.360 He can show. 1:42:18.880 --> 1:42:21.439 But I think also the lead up to this war 1:42:21.680 --> 1:42:25.360 demonstrated that the Abraham Accords as a framework for US 1:42:25.360 --> 1:42:28.400 policy towards the Middle East was pretty bankrupt in every direction. 1:42:28.920 --> 1:42:31.800 On the one hand, all of the like carrots that 1:42:31.880 --> 1:42:34.800 the United States was supposed to offer to encourage countries 1:42:34.880 --> 1:42:38.520 to normalize ties with Israel and effective. 1:42:38.120 --> 1:42:38.920 We've already been given out. 1:42:38.960 --> 1:42:40.920 So Saudi Arabia was like, here are your concessions that 1:42:41.000 --> 1:42:43.480 we were going to use in order to encourage. 1:42:43.120 --> 1:42:44.200 You to normalized ties with Israel. 1:42:44.280 --> 1:42:45.560 We can just give those two as long as you 1:42:45.600 --> 1:42:47.639 promised to invest money in the United States. So that's 1:42:47.960 --> 1:42:50.880 already been allowed to happen. At the same time, the 1:42:50.960 --> 1:42:54.519 downside for these countries and normalizing ties with Israel is 1:42:54.880 --> 1:42:58.360 pretty high. There's nothing that Israeli leaders that president can 1:42:58.439 --> 1:43:01.880 do to guarantee that there won't be another catastrophic and 1:43:01.960 --> 1:43:06.280 genocidal war against the Palestinian population. That's something that you know, 1:43:06.320 --> 1:43:09.760 a Saudi leadership that is dealing with, you know, potentially 1:43:09.840 --> 1:43:14.400 rising unemployment that other countries dealing with ethnic or sectarian 1:43:14.439 --> 1:43:17.400 divides within their borders, not something they really want to 1:43:17.439 --> 1:43:20.240 take on as well. And I think that the war 1:43:20.360 --> 1:43:24.360 has kind of created divergent perceptions of Israel as well. 1:43:24.400 --> 1:43:28.639 I think for countries like Saudi Arabia and especially Oman, 1:43:28.800 --> 1:43:32.240 there's a view of Israel. Even for a newer generation 1:43:32.280 --> 1:43:36.160 of leadership like Mohammad Bncelman, who were not particularly opposed 1:43:36.200 --> 1:43:38.679 to a greater role for Israel in the region, greater 1:43:38.800 --> 1:43:42.040 ties with Israel are just now concerned about Israel as 1:43:42.200 --> 1:43:45.920 a chaotic and unreliable partner in the region that will 1:43:46.320 --> 1:43:49.439 throw the security interests of its allies to the wind, 1:43:49.520 --> 1:43:52.200 you know, at the moment's notice. You know, their interpretation 1:43:52.240 --> 1:43:54.400 of the Abraham Accords is that it did nothing to 1:43:54.439 --> 1:43:57.760 protect the UA and Bahrain from attached by Iran or 1:43:57.800 --> 1:44:01.400 from getting dragged into in Israeli led or partly Israeli 1:44:01.479 --> 1:44:04.800 led war. In the other direction, however, the UA itself 1:44:05.080 --> 1:44:07.519 kind of views its tides with Israel as more important 1:44:07.520 --> 1:44:09.519 than ever. Their view is like, well, this is a 1:44:09.720 --> 1:44:15.080 region of unreliable actors. Israel has a capable military, even 1:44:15.080 --> 1:44:17.479 if they don't admit it openly. Israel's the only nuclear 1:44:17.560 --> 1:44:21.240 armed actor in the region. And Israel did send what's 1:44:21.240 --> 1:44:23.840 it called the Iron Dome defense technology to the UAE 1:44:24.040 --> 1:44:26.839 during the conflict. On the one hand, I think where 1:44:26.880 --> 1:44:29.160 just as we saw during the Biden administration, the Abraham 1:44:29.200 --> 1:44:33.120 Accords remains this kind of like cargo culture American foreign 1:44:33.160 --> 1:44:35.679 policy makers, this idea that we'll just say the Abraham 1:44:35.680 --> 1:44:38.280 Accords and it will magically make countries kind of change 1:44:38.280 --> 1:44:41.839 their foreign policy orientation. But I think the Abraham Accords 1:44:41.880 --> 1:44:47.680 as a UAE Israeli security economic political alliance in the 1:44:47.760 --> 1:44:50.559 region is stronger than ever and will continue to be 1:44:50.640 --> 1:44:52.200 the case into the future. 1:44:52.560 --> 1:44:54.960 But that Saudi Arabia will not participate in the way 1:44:54.960 --> 1:44:56.559 that the Trump administration assumes. 1:44:57.160 --> 1:45:00.559 Yeah, I think that Saudi Arabias will continue their policy 1:45:00.600 --> 1:45:02.960 they've had ever since October seventh, or at least since 1:45:03.040 --> 1:45:06.200 roughly thereafter, of saying like, well, we're not ruling out, 1:45:06.400 --> 1:45:10.320 we just have some conditions in order to move on that. 1:45:10.520 --> 1:45:13.320 And then, you know, I don't think those are unreasonable 1:45:13.360 --> 1:45:16.240 conditions of making progress towards the Palestinian state, but they 1:45:16.240 --> 1:45:20.200 are not anything that Nednyahu or even probably any other 1:45:20.240 --> 1:45:22.759 political coalition that comes to power in Israel is willing 1:45:22.840 --> 1:45:24.519 to even think about. 1:45:25.160 --> 1:45:27.479 So, you know, I don't really see it happening soon. 1:45:27.840 --> 1:45:31.160 I suppose the thing is so unpredictable that he could 1:45:31.200 --> 1:45:33.559 just like lash out and declare that he's going to 1:45:33.600 --> 1:45:36.880 do something to Saudi Arabia if they don't normalize. But 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:38.640 then it's a real question like, well, how long is 1:45:38.640 --> 1:45:41.200 he going to sustain that, and like what does he 1:45:41.280 --> 1:45:45.000 do if Saudi Arabia or Mohammad Bensimon himself like snaps 1:45:45.040 --> 1:45:48.880 back over this past winter, we saw, for example, as 1:45:48.920 --> 1:45:51.879 part of that diplomatic riff between the UA and Saudi Arabia, 1:45:51.960 --> 1:45:55.640 we saw Amaranti backed forces in Yemen make gains, a 1:45:55.640 --> 1:45:57.800 lot of commentary online of like oh Mahma beIN, so 1:45:57.920 --> 1:46:00.559 Man is willing to do anything about this, and then 1:46:00.600 --> 1:46:04.639 ultimately wind up the Saudi Foreign Ministry condemn the UA's 1:46:04.720 --> 1:46:08.799 role in Yemen, and Saudi forces bond like an Amoralti 1:46:08.880 --> 1:46:11.720 shipment coming into Yemen. So there's also the potential here 1:46:11.760 --> 1:46:14.639 as well, like these are two political systems where power 1:46:14.680 --> 1:46:18.679 is highly personalized around specific individuals, and so if President 1:46:18.680 --> 1:46:20.880 Trump decids to go down that route, is the possibility 1:46:20.920 --> 1:46:24.800 for this to become a very personalized conflict, right, And. 1:46:24.800 --> 1:46:28.160 I think it's important for listeners to understand the connection 1:46:28.400 --> 1:46:33.200 why the Palestinian issue holds such weight for golf leaders. 1:46:33.880 --> 1:46:36.439 You mentioned, for example, ethnic and sectarian device in particular 1:46:36.439 --> 1:46:40.360 countries I'm thinking Bahram or you know, rising unemployment and 1:46:40.400 --> 1:46:44.559 dissent and discontent in places like Saudi Arabia. It's because, 1:46:44.840 --> 1:46:48.799 either explicitly or implicitly, the Palestinian issue in some parts 1:46:48.840 --> 1:46:53.120 of the Gulf is connected to people's anti regime sentiment, 1:46:53.600 --> 1:46:56.439 which of course the Iranian regime is very good at 1:46:56.720 --> 1:47:00.719 stoking and exploiting, and so it's not just that they're 1:47:00.720 --> 1:47:04.479 worried about regional instability outside their borders. It's also, like 1:47:04.520 --> 1:47:07.160 you said, there are domestic implications for all these regimes. 1:47:07.520 --> 1:47:09.320 Yeah, I think if we want to turn back the 1:47:09.360 --> 1:47:12.760 clock to like the first Trump administration and even right 1:47:12.840 --> 1:47:15.840 up to October seventh, in places like Saudi Arabia, I 1:47:15.880 --> 1:47:18.480 think there was a belief that you could just suppress 1:47:18.880 --> 1:47:23.360 people's solidarity with Palestine or that this was like a 1:47:23.400 --> 1:47:26.000 dead issue for most Saudi citizens. 1:47:26.439 --> 1:47:28.560 But what kind of October seventh. 1:47:28.280 --> 1:47:32.280 Showed or changed was that that sentiment had really never 1:47:32.360 --> 1:47:35.320 gone away as much as it had seemed, and also 1:47:35.479 --> 1:47:38.240 that there's now an entirely new generation that has seen 1:47:38.280 --> 1:47:41.799 the atrocities perpetrated in Gaza over the past few years, 1:47:41.840 --> 1:47:43.960 that is now well aware of everything has been done, 1:47:44.000 --> 1:47:45.840 and this is not something you can hide from people 1:47:45.920 --> 1:47:48.240 or pretend that it will go away. And it's even 1:47:48.280 --> 1:47:50.840 harder to do so if people aren't seeing kind of 1:47:50.880 --> 1:47:55.080 rapid economic gains in their own lives, so it becomes 1:47:55.640 --> 1:47:59.360 yet another thing that, yeah, if you wanted to fault 1:47:59.720 --> 1:48:04.080 South leaders for kind of weakness and the international stage, 1:48:04.080 --> 1:48:07.559 if you wanted to fault them for not demonstrating political courage, 1:48:07.640 --> 1:48:08.320 that could be a. 1:48:08.200 --> 1:48:09.639 Cudgel to use against them. 1:48:09.720 --> 1:48:13.439 So inside Saudi Arabia, the one consistent thing over the 1:48:13.479 --> 1:48:16.720 past five six seven years is the complete suppression of. 1:48:16.800 --> 1:48:19.360 Talking about the Palestinian issue. 1:48:18.960 --> 1:48:23.280 Because political authorities are so worried that if people start 1:48:23.280 --> 1:48:25.559 talking about one political issue, maybe they start linking into 1:48:25.600 --> 1:48:28.040 other concerns. At the same time, there has been a 1:48:28.080 --> 1:48:32.280 shift among kind of regime aligned commentators from you if 1:48:32.280 --> 1:48:34.679 this we're back in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, you would 1:48:34.720 --> 1:48:37.320 hear them say, well, Saudi Arabia is now our country 1:48:37.320 --> 1:48:39.760 that acts in its own national interests. That means we 1:48:39.800 --> 1:48:42.320 don't have to listen to the Palestinian leadership, that's their 1:48:42.320 --> 1:48:45.320 own concern. Now you hear kind of same tune, like 1:48:45.360 --> 1:48:48.160 different variation, where it's like, because Saudi Arabia is acting 1:48:48.200 --> 1:48:51.680 in its own national interest, we can decide that we 1:48:51.720 --> 1:48:54.519 want to act in solidarity with the Palestinian leadership, not 1:48:54.640 --> 1:48:58.200 just do whatever the West tells us to do. But 1:48:58.280 --> 1:49:01.280 then this leads into I think kind of polarization among 1:49:01.320 --> 1:49:03.639 some of the Gulf countries because it's the exact opposite 1:49:03.720 --> 1:49:07.559 dynamic for the UAE, or the UAE goes the route 1:49:07.600 --> 1:49:11.240 of presenting itself as closer than ever to the United States, 1:49:11.720 --> 1:49:15.719 very aware that they can use Saudi skepticism towards Israel 1:49:15.960 --> 1:49:20.080 as something to attack Saudi Arabia in US commentary and 1:49:20.200 --> 1:49:23.639 US media markets. And then even if the country seemed 1:49:23.640 --> 1:49:26.960 to be able to patch these differences up from time 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:30.280 to time, it's going to keep driving them apart as well. 1:49:41.640 --> 1:49:43.680 I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but during the 1:49:43.680 --> 1:49:48.439 first Trump administration, the propaganda around Palestinians emerging from the 1:49:48.520 --> 1:49:51.759 UAE was extremely vehement. 1:49:52.160 --> 1:49:54.759 Let's say, there was so much. 1:49:54.600 --> 1:50:01.360 Rhetoric coming out of UAE government officials and associated influencers 1:50:01.360 --> 1:50:03.960 and things like that that was attempting to kind of 1:50:04.080 --> 1:50:08.599 change the image of the Palestinian to an Arab audience. 1:50:08.640 --> 1:50:11.960 And even though you're right that they are clinging more 1:50:12.000 --> 1:50:14.720 than ever to the Abraham Accords. Again, correct me if 1:50:14.720 --> 1:50:16.720 I'm wrong, but it seems to me that like they 1:50:16.800 --> 1:50:19.680 can't do that as much anymore. I'm not seeing as 1:50:19.720 --> 1:50:21.800 much of that kind of rhetoric and kind of anti 1:50:21.800 --> 1:50:24.040 Palestinian racism that I used to see. 1:50:24.280 --> 1:50:27.439 Yeah, and it used to be that you could walk 1:50:27.560 --> 1:50:29.760 this like I don't want to call it a fine line, 1:50:29.760 --> 1:50:31.559 but you could play this game. I'm more familiar with 1:50:31.560 --> 1:50:33.360 this in the Saudi case, but the rhetoric would go. 1:50:33.680 --> 1:50:36.040 Of course Audi Davia stands with the Saudi issue, but 1:50:36.040 --> 1:50:38.759 the Polsitatian leadership, they would basically adopt the same tropes 1:50:38.800 --> 1:50:40.439 we were familiar with the United States, like the pols 1:50:40.479 --> 1:50:42.879 Dating leadership never missed an opportunity, to miss an opportunity, 1:50:42.960 --> 1:50:44.599 or they would just a direct translation of that. 1:50:44.960 --> 1:50:46.720 Yeah, but yeah, it's much harder, like. 1:50:46.680 --> 1:50:49.920 You can't get away with that anymore because the pushback 1:50:49.960 --> 1:50:54.919 online would be incredibly intense. And likewise, even from the UAE, 1:50:55.040 --> 1:50:58.960 we see continued coordination with Israel. But it's interesting how 1:50:59.040 --> 1:51:03.439 the UAE denies doesn't confirm certain things, so bombing Iran 1:51:03.640 --> 1:51:06.160 during the war, the UA Foreign Ministry kind of there's 1:51:06.200 --> 1:51:07.880 a wink, wink, nudge nudge, like, well, look at our 1:51:07.920 --> 1:51:09.280 policies where we said we were to. 1:51:09.240 --> 1:51:11.360 Tell you if we were attacked. Jarirown conclusions. 1:51:11.479 --> 1:51:14.080 Whereas when it comes to Benjamin Natanya, who like visiting 1:51:14.120 --> 1:51:16.040 the UAE either like absolutely. 1:51:15.640 --> 1:51:16.599 Not, this is false news. 1:51:16.600 --> 1:51:17.320 It did not happen. 1:51:17.680 --> 1:51:18.760 Yeah, yeah, And I. 1:51:18.720 --> 1:51:22.799 Think that points to the extent to which especially Natanya, 1:51:22.880 --> 1:51:26.559 who has become extremely toxic and hard to separate from that, 1:51:26.720 --> 1:51:29.160 and that even though I don't think the UA is 1:51:29.200 --> 1:51:31.719 going to be hosting any like major Palestinian solidarity events 1:51:31.720 --> 1:51:35.600 anytime soon, at the same time, they're not like, you know, 1:51:35.640 --> 1:51:38.200 this is not like a warm piece in terms of 1:51:38.240 --> 1:51:41.599 how they're approaching israelis either. I'm pretty sure the UA 1:51:41.680 --> 1:51:45.920 even condemned the recent law like basically allowing executions of. 1:51:45.960 --> 1:51:48.479 The death penalty here you will specifically. 1:51:48.000 --> 1:51:50.880 Define to basically be Palestinians on the West Bank. Also 1:51:50.960 --> 1:51:55.200 condemned Israel's actions in Lebanon as well. So it's become 1:51:55.760 --> 1:51:59.440 harder to mount the kind of media campaigns against Palestinians, 1:51:59.800 --> 1:52:03.080 I think, partly because they backfire, and then partly in 1:52:03.120 --> 1:52:05.960 recognition that like this was done for years and years, 1:52:05.960 --> 1:52:09.519 and then ultimately what distinguishes Saudi Arabia from the UA 1:52:09.560 --> 1:52:12.439 is not that their citizen publics have different views about 1:52:12.439 --> 1:52:15.519 the Palestinians, but just that in the UAE you can 1:52:15.920 --> 1:52:20.400 surveil coerce and bribe your citizen population so much better 1:52:20.439 --> 1:52:22.920 than in Saudi Arabia. It's like, yeah, sorry to be 1:52:23.000 --> 1:52:24.439 kind of crass about it, but like the Jews just 1:52:24.439 --> 1:52:27.680 doesn't worth the squeeze in terms of the Saudi monarchy relative. 1:52:27.280 --> 1:52:30.240 To at least being in this kind. 1:52:29.960 --> 1:52:33.799 Of middle path where they're maybe not pushing the United 1:52:33.840 --> 1:52:36.799 States too much for Palestinian statehood, but are like doing 1:52:37.080 --> 1:52:40.000 at least the bare minimum to keep I guess the 1:52:40.040 --> 1:52:41.759 idea of a two state solution alive. 1:52:42.280 --> 1:52:45.560 Yeah, and to stay adhering to the Arapeace initiative in 1:52:45.880 --> 1:52:49.280 some capacity. What's kind of the takeaway do you think 1:52:49.400 --> 1:52:52.679 for all of these countries in the aftermath of this war, 1:52:53.080 --> 1:52:56.000 do you foresee a change in their positions visa in 1:52:56.040 --> 1:52:57.240 the United States in particular. 1:52:57.800 --> 1:52:59.760 For years and years analysts of the Gulf imen talking 1:52:59.760 --> 1:53:03.040 about like these states hedging, and I think in one direction, 1:53:03.160 --> 1:53:05.600 this war show that like most of that amounted to 1:53:06.800 --> 1:53:09.599 just trying to get more concessions from the United States. 1:53:09.600 --> 1:53:11.479 Like you had a couple of European countries show up, 1:53:11.560 --> 1:53:14.280 you had like Pakistan get involved a little bit, but 1:53:14.840 --> 1:53:17.599 their strategies for the course of this war still revolved 1:53:17.640 --> 1:53:21.320 around trying to influence us thinking you frame how they 1:53:21.360 --> 1:53:23.760 were viewed in the United States. But I do think 1:53:23.800 --> 1:53:27.120 it is going to trigger changes down the line. Like 1:53:27.160 --> 1:53:30.400 we saw Saudi Arabia normalized ties with itr on four 1:53:30.479 --> 1:53:34.479 years after the United States failed to intervene after Iranian 1:53:34.520 --> 1:53:36.360 line groups attacked Saudi oil fields. 1:53:36.560 --> 1:53:37.840 I think something similar here. 1:53:37.880 --> 1:53:40.080 What we're going to see developments three or four years 1:53:40.120 --> 1:53:42.080 down the line that have been cooking in the background 1:53:42.120 --> 1:53:45.040 as a result of what has happened in twenty twenty six. 1:53:45.360 --> 1:53:47.000 I think we're starting to see some of that now. 1:53:47.040 --> 1:53:49.640 And it's not going to be like, oh, we're going 1:53:49.720 --> 1:53:52.160 to get a Chinese military base in the Gulf. It's 1:53:52.200 --> 1:53:55.040 going to be other things, like we're seeing Saudi Arabia 1:53:55.160 --> 1:53:57.160 try to work with what it used as the other 1:53:57.439 --> 1:54:01.800 regional middle powers that can trust and work with Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan. 1:54:02.280 --> 1:54:06.240 The UAE meanwhile is trying to double or triple down 1:54:06.400 --> 1:54:10.120 on its direct security ties with Israel. But I think 1:54:10.439 --> 1:54:12.200 the way these ghostates are going to react is going 1:54:12.240 --> 1:54:15.880 to figure out, how can we shape the diplomas here 1:54:16.000 --> 1:54:18.400 on the region, how can we shape our own security 1:54:18.479 --> 1:54:21.519 in ways that don't rely on the United States, but 1:54:21.600 --> 1:54:24.880 aren't like how to put it, I think in Washington, DC, 1:54:25.000 --> 1:54:27.160 because of the obsession with Chinese influence in the world, 1:54:27.160 --> 1:54:29.160 there's always this belief of like, oh, like, if not us, 1:54:29.240 --> 1:54:31.360 then it will be like the Chinese will be involved. 1:54:31.360 --> 1:54:33.640 And I think the reality is going to look very different. 1:54:33.680 --> 1:54:35.440 I don't think China wants to get involved in a 1:54:35.480 --> 1:54:37.839 security fashion in the Gulf, but there are other countries 1:54:37.880 --> 1:54:41.200 that have an interest in some degree of peaceful economic 1:54:41.240 --> 1:54:44.960 development or some degree of like maximalized security, and that's 1:54:45.000 --> 1:54:48.240 going to be the future of these state security relations. 1:54:48.680 --> 1:54:51.560 Well, thank you so much, Andrew. I really appreciate your expertise. 1:54:51.960 --> 1:54:55.240 I'll link your profile at Carnegie in the show notes 1:54:55.480 --> 1:54:57.320 as well as given that we talked about kind of 1:54:57.320 --> 1:55:00.760 the past Indian question in relation to some of these 1:55:00.800 --> 1:55:04.320 other issues domestically in the Gulf States, I'll also link 1:55:04.400 --> 1:55:06.640 to some of my own research on this topic. So 1:55:07.200 --> 1:55:07.920 thank you so much. 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:09.400 Thanks thanks for having me. 1:55:23.200 --> 1:55:25.400 Garrison thinks that's good. 1:55:25.960 --> 1:55:28.320 That's good. If we were brave, if. 1:55:28.240 --> 1:55:31.839 We will new Halloween, Cotima lotch that's not happening. 1:55:32.120 --> 1:55:35.600 A would this is it could happen here? Executive disorder, 1:55:35.680 --> 1:55:38.200 our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, 1:55:38.240 --> 1:55:40.480 the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm 1:55:40.600 --> 1:55:43.879 Garrison Davis today and joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, 1:55:43.880 --> 1:55:47.200 and Robert Evans Eh. This episode recovering the week of 1:55:47.400 --> 1:55:51.920 June third to June tenth. James, some small news items 1:55:51.920 --> 1:55:52.800 to start. 1:55:52.880 --> 1:55:55.920 Yeah, many small things this week. So new details have 1:55:56.080 --> 1:56:00.240 emerged about the Santa Rosa Island fire. If you remember, 1:56:00.280 --> 1:56:03.040 the fire was started by mariner. At first, it was 1:56:03.040 --> 1:56:05.440 reported that the mariner had started the fire by firing 1:56:05.480 --> 1:56:09.640 the stress flares. Now appears the mariner's engine caught fire, 1:56:09.880 --> 1:56:13.120 starting the fire. Oh, then he fired stress flares. But 1:56:13.240 --> 1:56:13.840 there's more. 1:56:14.560 --> 1:56:17.520 Okay, how many fires did this guy have involved in 1:56:17.560 --> 1:56:18.080 his boating? 1:56:18.800 --> 1:56:21.360 Well? He ran into the island next door a week 1:56:21.480 --> 1:56:25.840 before okay, oh boy, and was towed by coastguard to 1:56:25.960 --> 1:56:29.200 their harbor, where they found that he didn't have a 1:56:29.280 --> 1:56:30.760 number of items you have. 1:56:30.680 --> 1:56:33.160 To have on his boat for safety equipment reasons. Right, 1:56:33.200 --> 1:56:35.800 So they pounded his boat for six days until a 1:56:35.840 --> 1:56:40.000 good Samaritan donated those items. He then left the harbor 1:56:40.200 --> 1:56:42.600 and crashed into the next island. I think that good 1:56:42.600 --> 1:56:46.160 Samaritan made a mistake. I think we can agree it's 1:56:46.240 --> 1:56:50.160 not the man now. Yeah, I think doing anything to 1:56:50.280 --> 1:56:52.600 enable this man to re float on the Seventh Seas 1:56:52.920 --> 1:56:56.000 not be in the sea. Yeah, this guy listened to 1:56:56.000 --> 1:57:00.280 too much Jimmy Buffett. Yeah. Unfortunately, like this seems to 1:57:00.280 --> 1:57:01.800 be one of those situations. He bought the boat for 1:57:01.840 --> 1:57:10.760 a single dollar. We generally don't give advice on this podcast, 1:57:10.800 --> 1:57:18.840 but I will say you couldn't. It's not uncommon, it's 1:57:18.840 --> 1:57:21.280 out of California for people to buy boats in order 1:57:21.320 --> 1:57:23.920 to find a cheaper place to live. Yes, of course, 1:57:23.960 --> 1:57:27.040 things like slip fees, registraction. People don't realizee things. Add that, 1:57:27.320 --> 1:57:29.680 I have worked on some old diesel engines on these boats, 1:57:29.800 --> 1:57:32.280 they're not particularly straight I'm not a great doing some 1:57:32.440 --> 1:57:36.240 characters begin with, but they're not particularly straightforward. And this 1:57:37.240 --> 1:57:40.520 results in what I think we have seen here, which 1:57:40.560 --> 1:57:45.760 is a delta between confidence and ability on the seven season. 1:57:46.440 --> 1:57:48.839 This isn't a boat that one should be sending alone, 1:57:49.240 --> 1:57:51.040 much less so they only bought a couple of years 1:57:51.040 --> 1:57:54.800 ago for a single American dollar. No, I've ported to 1:57:54.840 --> 1:57:58.000 destroy a large gradatory pine which only exists there and 1:57:58.760 --> 1:58:01.320 here so yeah, I know, be careful that there would 1:58:01.360 --> 1:58:05.600 be pirates moving on now. I's reported it's nineteenth in 1:58:05.680 --> 1:58:11.480 custody death this year when correctional centers Storgia. Yeah, continuing 1:58:11.520 --> 1:58:15.120 to set all the worst records. A court has vacated 1:58:15.160 --> 1:58:18.320 the president's one hundred thousand dollars h one b visa 1:58:18.440 --> 1:58:21.440 tacks cases brought by California al But it's more than 1:58:21.440 --> 1:58:24.080 a dozen states that will be impacted by the tax. 1:58:24.720 --> 1:58:28.080 This is a good one. Gregory Bavino appears to be 1:58:28.080 --> 1:58:32.440 eyeing a run of the presidency. Sure, this is interesting, 1:58:32.760 --> 1:58:36.880 So he launched an experimental website. Yeah why not? Why fuck? 1:58:37.120 --> 1:58:40.080 Like his website at Bavino twenty twenty eight dot com. 1:58:40.360 --> 1:58:45.960 The campaign appears to have originated from Jacob Angles. Angles 1:58:46.080 --> 1:58:48.840 is a right where he's kind of rogersterone prodigy They 1:58:48.840 --> 1:58:52.640 broke ways. Angles was appears to be charged for his 1:58:52.680 --> 1:58:58.840 methamphetamin possession earlier this year. Oh wow, it was Engles 1:58:58.920 --> 1:59:02.000 who was first post this house Bathno. Twenty twenty eight 1:59:02.080 --> 1:59:05.879 thing in Bovino's replies and Angele's now pissed is listed 1:59:05.960 --> 1:59:09.640 on the Fno twenty twenty eight dot com. Oh god. 1:59:10.280 --> 1:59:13.400 In this house Bavino thing. He's just he watched too 1:59:13.480 --> 1:59:16.320 much Game of Thrones, right, That's that's why he's saying that. 1:59:16.600 --> 1:59:18.600 I think so because I looked into it. 1:59:18.840 --> 1:59:20.480 That's as far as I can tell, it's him trying 1:59:20.480 --> 1:59:23.880 to do like a nightly like with a new nightly order. 1:59:23.920 --> 1:59:26.560 I mean, it's it's part of his ess cosplays how 1:59:26.600 --> 1:59:29.400 I kind of interpreted it because he clearly is obsessed 1:59:29.440 --> 1:59:31.520 with the fucking shut staffel and they were like a 1:59:31.640 --> 1:59:34.680 nightly order. And that's I get those vibes from Greg. 1:59:35.440 --> 1:59:37.440 Yeah. Like, and if you look at the website right 1:59:37.480 --> 1:59:40.880 like you gelt like, he's prominently featured whearing it's now 1:59:40.920 --> 1:59:44.200 in famous greatcoat trench cut whenever you want to call 1:59:44.280 --> 1:59:47.720 that fucking coat. Yes, I don't know if Baveno, like Brevino, 1:59:48.320 --> 1:59:50.000 maybe he's just trying to run this as far as 1:59:50.000 --> 1:59:52.520 it'll go, Right, he just lost his job, so maybe 1:59:52.560 --> 1:59:56.280 he's looking for like something new to do. Oh sure, Like, 1:59:56.440 --> 2:00:00.040 I'm not sure how serious Biffrito is with this. You 2:00:00.200 --> 2:00:03.200 think he's he's definitely trying to continue to I guess 2:00:03.280 --> 2:00:07.760 influence the national discussion. I guess well in the internet. 2:00:07.800 --> 2:00:11.040 I mean, he's hanging out with the fucking Martin Selmer 2:00:11.200 --> 2:00:14.360 over in Portugal. He's hang out with at like straight 2:00:14.440 --> 2:00:17.880 up like christ Church mass shooting affiliated Nazis, you know, 2:00:18.720 --> 2:00:19.920 like he's going for it. 2:00:20.440 --> 2:00:24.080 Everyone should just scroll down to the foundest section of 2:00:24.080 --> 2:00:24.800 this website. 2:00:25.000 --> 2:00:27.920 Okay, hold on before before we do that, this link 2:00:27.960 --> 2:00:30.800 has now appeared in our group chat. That is the 2:00:30.840 --> 2:00:34.720 most Nazi ass like this profile picture thing I have 2:00:34.840 --> 2:00:41.080 seen in a long time. It's like a Wolfenstein yeah, right, 2:00:41.360 --> 2:00:43.360 but like in the same way that, like they're also 2:00:43.440 --> 2:00:48.800 clearly aping from like communist aesthetics, like background, the way 2:00:48.840 --> 2:00:51.440 he's kind of framed, is this like weird? Yeah, this 2:00:51.440 --> 2:00:52.520 is it kind of West German. 2:00:52.960 --> 2:00:56.600 I would almost say it's like generic propaganda now, which 2:00:56.640 --> 2:00:58.680 is sort of like a mix of like West Germans, 2:00:58.880 --> 2:01:02.920 Eastern or easterman us SNRT, like the the use of 2:01:03.080 --> 2:01:05.280 bad the use of the olive branches, the. 2:01:05.520 --> 2:01:09.960 Sun rays from his body. Yeah, it's just kind of. 2:01:09.960 --> 2:01:15.120 Like generic propaganda. House Bavino Men Fight generated image. Right, 2:01:15.200 --> 2:01:15.640 So it is. 2:01:15.680 --> 2:01:17.880 Based found the way the text is formed, it does 2:01:17.920 --> 2:01:19.400 appear to be an AA generated. 2:01:19.920 --> 2:01:22.760 It's no property framed right. The framing on the left 2:01:22.760 --> 2:01:24.160 and right is thicker than the framing at the top. 2:01:24.200 --> 2:01:26.520 There is no framing at the bottom like xametrao. 2:01:26.600 --> 2:01:29.880 Shit, oh my god, No, I think we're all missing something, 2:01:29.880 --> 2:01:36.280 which is that right underneath the big propaganda image, tiny text, 2:01:36.560 --> 2:01:40.640 the words in very tiny text, almost hidden. Bavino knows 2:01:40.720 --> 2:01:43.120 what America needs. America's men. 2:01:44.360 --> 2:01:48.800 It's not a quotation marks, but no, the slogan of 2:01:48.840 --> 2:01:52.040 the campaign is men fight back. Yeah cool? 2:01:52.160 --> 2:01:54.400 Or the slogan of House Bavino. It's a little unclear. 2:01:54.640 --> 2:01:58.520 Yeah right, Maybe maybe it's housed Bavino. Maybe he's struggling 2:01:58.600 --> 2:02:01.160 to make rent having lost his job at the Boyd Patrol, 2:02:01.280 --> 2:02:04.040 and this is setting up a pot to pay his rent. 2:02:04.520 --> 2:02:08.680 But yeah, incredible. Uh wow, the ab Founders section really. 2:02:08.880 --> 2:02:10.360 Oh Michael, Okay, I have scroll. 2:02:10.440 --> 2:02:14.600 I have scrolled down to the our founder section and there. 2:02:14.480 --> 2:02:16.800 Is an incredible specimen. 2:02:17.360 --> 2:02:21.240 The a Bold National Strategy part is really upsetting to me. Yeah, 2:02:21.360 --> 2:02:25.160 because he's calling himself the Commander and capitalizing the v 2:02:25.280 --> 2:02:28.040 N the sea in a very like here's the ways 2:02:28.400 --> 2:02:32.760 following the Commander's maximum effectiveness and quelling the foreign hordes 2:02:32.800 --> 2:02:36.040 that have subsumed our nation's cities, both large and small. 2:02:36.320 --> 2:02:39.320 The American people witnessed what true leadership powered by a 2:02:39.400 --> 2:02:43.040 warrior mindset actually looks like. Is the Commander endeavored to 2:02:43.080 --> 2:02:48.360 restore order and national sovereignty? That is one sentence, second sentence. 2:02:48.560 --> 2:02:51.360 America as a whole has already fallen to the grasps 2:02:51.400 --> 2:02:54.120 of the foreign global, one world hellscape ushered in by 2:02:54.120 --> 2:02:55.520 Barack Hussein Obama. 2:02:55.600 --> 2:02:56.720 However, we believe that. 2:02:56.720 --> 2:02:59.000 The Commander can not only usher in the great restoration 2:02:59.040 --> 2:03:01.400 of America, but also cement the continuity of a strong 2:03:01.400 --> 2:03:04.000 and sovereign the United States that will last a millennia, a. 2:03:04.040 --> 2:03:04.840 Thousand year reich. 2:03:05.000 --> 2:03:07.280 In other words, And that also was one sentence. That 2:03:07.400 --> 2:03:09.680 is two sentences that I just read. Yeah, I need 2:03:09.720 --> 2:03:10.480 to be clear. 2:03:10.960 --> 2:03:13.760 Yeah, I become paying. A couple of Gmail addresses are 2:03:13.840 --> 2:03:14.560 using here. 2:03:14.880 --> 2:03:18.840 Some really small font by the way, curioistically right, Yeah, 2:03:19.080 --> 2:03:21.960 Harry inconsistently, This looks like they had Ai lay out 2:03:21.960 --> 2:03:23.000 his website too. 2:03:23.480 --> 2:03:25.840 But they have one woman on their founders page and 2:03:25.920 --> 2:03:27.880 like everyone else here in size like twenty and she's 2:03:27.880 --> 2:03:28.800 like size eleven. 2:03:29.520 --> 2:03:29.920 Yeah. 2:03:29.960 --> 2:03:31.880 Like the set will have you know, images of him 2:03:32.000 --> 2:03:33.520 or of his post where you can see his name, 2:03:33.920 --> 2:03:37.240 but it refers to him only as the commander. So 2:03:37.360 --> 2:03:39.680 like there's a post of Greg's where it like, it's 2:03:39.720 --> 2:03:41.640 the post that he made at the airport where he's 2:03:41.640 --> 2:03:43.200 like pointing at the flight to Newark when he was 2:03:43.200 --> 2:03:44.800 on his way to Portugal, being like, should I just 2:03:44.880 --> 2:03:47.640 handle it myself and you know, go to Jersey to 2:03:47.640 --> 2:03:50.440 deal with this? And above that is perhaps I must 2:03:50.520 --> 2:03:53.880 resolve this personally as a quote the commander challenging the 2:03:53.880 --> 2:03:56.760 inertia of the open borders bureaucracy and response to Like 2:03:56.840 --> 2:04:00.680 it's written like Greg Bovino became the over dictator of 2:04:00.720 --> 2:04:03.160 America and this is a history book sixty years later, 2:04:03.320 --> 2:04:05.640 Like that's the way his website is written. 2:04:05.960 --> 2:04:07.920 Yeah, it's incredibly low effort. 2:04:08.560 --> 2:04:11.760 Yeah, quite concerning, and he really has a high opinion 2:04:11.760 --> 2:04:14.640 of himself. Yeah, I gotta, I gotta say that. 2:04:15.120 --> 2:04:17.480 Yeah, I do wonder how much this is just angles 2:04:17.480 --> 2:04:18.720 just writing this like as a fan. 2:04:18.920 --> 2:04:20.760 Yeah, I wonder how much he had to do with this. 2:04:21.200 --> 2:04:23.920 But this does not seem like he had nothing to 2:04:23.920 --> 2:04:25.520 do with it. I will say that based on my 2:04:25.600 --> 2:04:26.879 knowledge of Greg Bavino. 2:04:27.560 --> 2:04:30.800 Yeah, he's shared it on his own social media. 2:04:30.920 --> 2:04:31.600 Great. 2:04:32.000 --> 2:04:35.200 In other news, the months long fight over ICE and 2:04:35.280 --> 2:04:39.280 CBP funding has come to an end. In a two 2:04:39.400 --> 2:04:43.440 hundred and fourteen to two hundred and twelve vote on Tuesday, 2:04:44.120 --> 2:04:48.600 the House has passed a reconciliation bill funding ICE and CBP. 2:04:49.240 --> 2:04:52.920 Yeah, this is the so called Secure America Act. Right, 2:04:53.040 --> 2:04:55.560 it'll get them seventy billion dollars. 2:04:56.040 --> 2:04:58.160 So if we look at that combined with the Big 2:04:58.160 --> 2:05:01.320 Beautiful Bill, it's about two hundred forty billion allocated to 2:05:01.360 --> 2:05:02.200 them in a single year. 2:05:02.320 --> 2:05:04.920 It doesn't mean they have to spend it all this year, right. 2:05:05.240 --> 2:05:08.080 The Secure America Act gives them a window up to 2:05:08.200 --> 2:05:12.160 September thirty of twenty twenty nine, with no particular allocations 2:05:12.200 --> 2:05:15.200 for any given year. To me, that strikes me as 2:05:15.200 --> 2:05:18.360 a hedge against funding after the midterms. I think that's 2:05:18.400 --> 2:05:20.600 what that's about. Also notable, the Charason said that they 2:05:20.680 --> 2:05:23.200 use reconciliation to allow simple majority in the Senate. 2:05:23.520 --> 2:05:26.480 We went over the details of a previous version of 2:05:26.520 --> 2:05:28.960 this bill a few weeks ago. This money is going 2:05:29.000 --> 2:05:32.000 to go towards hiring and arming new officers, hiring more 2:05:32.040 --> 2:05:35.000 administrative staff, attorneys, and this is all going to be 2:05:35.080 --> 2:05:38.680 towards immigration enforcement, as well as the money allocated for 2:05:38.800 --> 2:05:43.480 acquiring new border technology. The one billion dollars of quote 2:05:43.520 --> 2:05:48.480 unquote security funding for Trump's ballroom was removed from the 2:05:48.480 --> 2:05:52.960 bill by the Senate last week. Two other short things 2:05:53.000 --> 2:05:57.280 I want to mention. Yesterday a Fedral grand jury indicted 2:05:57.360 --> 2:06:00.960 two people in relation to stop copp City protests and 2:06:01.320 --> 2:06:06.840 alleged crimes in twenty twenty two. And Wednesday morning, the 2:06:07.080 --> 2:06:12.320 FBI rated about seven people in Michigan related to pro 2:06:12.400 --> 2:06:16.320 Palestine protests at the University of Michigan and protests against 2:06:16.560 --> 2:06:20.240 University of Michigan officials. As of recording like this just 2:06:20.280 --> 2:06:23.480 happened a few hours ago and relates to an indictment 2:06:23.520 --> 2:06:27.880 that was unsealed this morning as well, which charges eight people. 2:06:28.360 --> 2:06:30.360 Will cover this more in detail in the future. 2:06:30.840 --> 2:06:32.480 Bring to do one more quick segment here, and then 2:06:32.480 --> 2:06:35.400 when we return, we're going to talk about the programs 2:06:35.400 --> 2:06:36.040 in Belfast. 2:06:36.760 --> 2:06:37.000 Yay. 2:06:38.400 --> 2:06:43.400 Some updates related to primary elections in Maine. Grand Plattner 2:06:43.400 --> 2:06:45.920 has won the Democratic primary with about seventy two percent 2:06:45.920 --> 2:06:49.520 of the vote. The governor's race is too close to call, 2:06:49.680 --> 2:06:52.360 with the ranked choice voting yet to be tallied. But 2:06:52.400 --> 2:06:55.280 I'm keeping my eye on the Sanders and labor back 2:06:55.320 --> 2:06:59.480 to candidate Troy Jackson, who campaigned with Platner. Jackson is 2:06:59.480 --> 2:07:04.160 about nine thousand votes behind the pre ranked choice vote 2:07:04.200 --> 2:07:09.200 candidate doctor ni av Shaw. After a week of counting, 2:07:09.720 --> 2:07:13.440 we have more definitive results from the elections in California 2:07:13.560 --> 2:07:14.160 last week. 2:07:14.800 --> 2:07:17.080 Yeah, which a lot of people are saying is an 2:07:17.160 --> 2:07:21.080 unforgivable cup of democracy that they counted all the votes 2:07:21.280 --> 2:07:24.320 and it took them a while. But yeah, gares, please 2:07:24.920 --> 2:07:29.160 continue and we'll talk about the chaos that is being 2:07:29.600 --> 2:07:31.960 justified by the fact that this took a while to account. 2:07:32.400 --> 2:07:34.880 Tom Steyer will not be making it onto the ballot 2:07:34.920 --> 2:07:38.280 this coming November. With ninety one percent of the votes counted, 2:07:38.680 --> 2:07:43.520 Steyer has earned one million, nine hundred and twenty eight thousand, 2:07:43.640 --> 2:07:47.520 three hundred and eighty one votes, or twenty two point 2:07:47.600 --> 2:07:52.280 five percent. Republican Steve Hilton, former Fox News host, has 2:07:52.400 --> 2:07:55.960 Edgedtyer out by about two hundred thousand votes, earning twenty 2:07:56.000 --> 2:07:59.480 five percent of the vote and advancing to the general election, 2:08:00.040 --> 2:08:03.640 where he will go up against liberal Democrat Javier Besserra 2:08:04.040 --> 2:08:07.960 with twenty seven point nine percent of the vote. Katie 2:08:08.000 --> 2:08:12.600 Porter won just under four hundred thousand votes Karen Bass 2:08:12.640 --> 2:08:16.040 still leads the LA mayoral primary with ninety five percent 2:08:16.040 --> 2:08:19.400 of the votes counted. Bass has nearly three hundred thousand votes, 2:08:19.640 --> 2:08:24.400 winning thirty four point three percent. Progressive Nythia Rahman has 2:08:24.680 --> 2:08:29.280 moved into second place with twenty nine percent, beating Republican 2:08:29.320 --> 2:08:32.120 Spencer Pratt with twenty five point five percent. So the 2:08:32.160 --> 2:08:37.080 general election we'll see Raman go up against Bass. Reality 2:08:37.120 --> 2:08:40.440 TV star Spencer Pratt was up in the early vote, 2:08:40.800 --> 2:08:44.520 but as Ramond started to pull ahead, Trump and others 2:08:44.560 --> 2:08:49.560 began claiming the election was being stolen from Republicans. Pratt 2:08:49.640 --> 2:08:55.080 has insinuated that Raman's lead came from LA's homeless population 2:08:55.680 --> 2:08:58.560 and must grow oute that quote. The level of fraud 2:08:58.640 --> 2:09:00.160 here is mind blowing. 2:09:01.600 --> 2:09:03.880 Yeah, so homeless people can vote. 2:09:03.560 --> 2:09:07.200 Like yeah, provided they are US citizens. 2:09:07.280 --> 2:09:11.960 Like yes, yes, it's it's all lies, yeah, I mean, 2:09:12.000 --> 2:09:14.200 And a lot of what's even what's being reported in 2:09:14.200 --> 2:09:17.360 the Washington Post is straight up lies. Like they just 2:09:17.400 --> 2:09:20.600 published an article today that includes this line. And again 2:09:20.920 --> 2:09:23.760 the theme of the article is like, well, you know, 2:09:24.120 --> 2:09:27.320 obviously this election wasn't stolen, but the fact that it's 2:09:27.360 --> 2:09:30.200 taken so long is really a problem. You can't actually 2:09:30.200 --> 2:09:33.680 blame all these people if they if they think it's suspicious. 2:09:34.160 --> 2:09:36.200 This is not evidence of a rigged election, but it 2:09:36.240 --> 2:09:39.200 creates fertile ground for conspiracy theories to take root. It 2:09:39.200 --> 2:09:42.440 didn't help that Ramen tearfully conceded last Tuesday. But it's 2:09:42.440 --> 2:09:45.040 irresponsible for prett to intimate on social media. So we 2:09:45.080 --> 2:09:47.480 did not be stolen. She didn't tearfully concede. 2:09:47.480 --> 2:09:48.120 It did not happen. 2:09:48.200 --> 2:09:51.760 That never happened. That Washington Post lied, like that's just 2:09:51.880 --> 2:09:54.120 in a post article. That's just a lie by the 2:09:54.200 --> 2:09:57.240 Washington Post, like an intentional lie, I would. 2:09:57.080 --> 2:10:00.839 Are incredible, I guess to just going today's toe, people understand, 2:10:00.920 --> 2:10:04.960 like you know, like I've written for broadsheet newspapers, several people. 2:10:05.040 --> 2:10:07.160 This is not one person fucking up, right, This is 2:10:07.200 --> 2:10:09.720 an institutional fuck up. This was a choice. Yeah, it 2:10:10.080 --> 2:10:11.800 was a choice to get this wrong. The person whose 2:10:11.840 --> 2:10:14.280 name is on the byline wrote that, Yes, an editor 2:10:14.320 --> 2:10:16.840 then edited, a copy editor then edited it, and then 2:10:16.880 --> 2:10:18.560 somebody laid it out for the website. 2:10:18.640 --> 2:10:18.880 Yep. 2:10:19.280 --> 2:10:20.840 And you know this if you're listening and your work 2:10:20.880 --> 2:10:23.680 for the Post, you know this. You know that your editors, 2:10:23.720 --> 2:10:26.440 your bosses and your colleagues chose to lie and are 2:10:26.520 --> 2:10:29.040 choosing to continue to lie and spread lies through their publication. 2:10:29.200 --> 2:10:31.400 You're aware of this if you weren't there still. 2:10:32.840 --> 2:10:33.240 Anyway. 2:10:33.320 --> 2:10:37.280 And Benny Johnson, Tempoole or Ingram and Sean Hannity are 2:10:37.320 --> 2:10:41.360 alleged that Democrats stole the election, and Trump has continued 2:10:41.400 --> 2:10:44.480 to make claims that the election was rigged. Quote here 2:10:44.520 --> 2:10:47.560 we go with the very late and massive numbers of 2:10:47.720 --> 2:10:48.839 mail in ballots. 2:10:49.000 --> 2:10:53.800 You no shit truthed? Sorry, yeah, man, it's convenient. 2:10:53.360 --> 2:10:58.280 Yeah, eternal twenty twenty Trump truth earlier this week quote 2:10:58.640 --> 2:11:00.760 not possible for Spencer Pratt? Do you have lost the 2:11:00.920 --> 2:11:04.040 l A runoffs after the big lead he had Third 2:11:04.160 --> 2:11:05.080 world nation. 2:11:05.240 --> 2:11:07.800 On quote do you understand what the word nation means? 2:11:08.840 --> 2:11:08.880 No? 2:11:10.320 --> 2:11:12.720 I didn't think they They tell these truth. 2:11:12.800 --> 2:11:15.800 I don't think he understands how election works, obviously, or 2:11:15.840 --> 2:11:18.400 he does and he's just saying what he needs to 2:11:18.400 --> 2:11:22.160 say here. Notably, on Sunday, Trump stormed out of an 2:11:22.200 --> 2:11:25.280 interview on Meet the Press when asked if he had 2:11:25.640 --> 2:11:28.680 any evidence of quote unquote cheating in California. 2:11:28.920 --> 2:11:30.440 The election was rigged. 2:11:30.600 --> 2:11:33.440 It was a dirty election. This is happening again right 2:11:33.440 --> 2:11:39.680 now in Californa. Now in California, right now, it's looking. 2:11:39.760 --> 2:11:41.080 Look at what's happening in California. 2:11:41.760 --> 2:11:44.800 It's in California. 2:11:44.920 --> 2:11:47.760 It's now, they're not there. They're dropping fast because it's 2:11:47.800 --> 2:11:51.240 a rigged election. Let me tell you, it's four days 2:11:51.480 --> 2:11:53.520 and they aren't even close to coming up there. 2:11:54.360 --> 2:11:55.160 Why they're doing that. 2:11:55.240 --> 2:11:56.640 Because they're cheating on the election. 2:11:56.800 --> 2:11:58.040 There's what do you have evidence? 2:11:59.040 --> 2:12:01.080 I have to do his Look all you have to 2:12:01.080 --> 2:12:03.200 do is look is he in front of a green 2:12:03.360 --> 2:12:07.120 screen that depicts a johnde At tractor and plan to 2:12:07.640 --> 2:12:10.440 know they are in Wisconsin in some kind of barn 2:12:10.600 --> 2:12:13.880 and it's raining outside in this barn with the John 2:12:13.920 --> 2:12:16.560 Deere tractor and like haybells. It's an interesting kind of 2:12:16.600 --> 2:12:18.120 like real world set they have. 2:12:18.480 --> 2:12:21.360 Yeah okay, and the focus is very weird. 2:12:21.120 --> 2:12:22.520 Like the Yeah. 2:12:22.640 --> 2:12:26.120 Trump later called vote counting in California quote unquote crooked, 2:12:26.840 --> 2:12:28.480 just like how the press is crooked. 2:12:28.640 --> 2:12:31.440 Quote you're either crooked or you're stupid. 2:12:31.640 --> 2:12:35.320 You know that these elections are rigged, Your network knows 2:12:35.360 --> 2:12:36.320 that they're rigged. 2:12:36.680 --> 2:12:38.440 You were like a third world country. 2:12:38.840 --> 2:12:42.000 Your elections are crooked, and you're crooked and least the 2:12:42.080 --> 2:12:47.040 press is crooked, show is ABC and CBS and CNN. 2:12:47.760 --> 2:12:50.920 You're one sided crooked network. Let's call it quicks because 2:12:51.000 --> 2:12:51.600 I've had enough. 2:12:51.840 --> 2:12:52.760 Thank you, Darling. 2:12:52.680 --> 2:12:53.560 Goods the president. 2:12:53.640 --> 2:12:56.160 Let's please I travel all the way to Wisconsin. 2:12:57.520 --> 2:12:58.760 God, that's embarrassing. 2:12:59.560 --> 2:13:02.640 Yeah, just being mean to him, be rude, yell at him, 2:13:02.680 --> 2:13:04.960 call him a fucking liar, scream at him. Stop doing 2:13:04.960 --> 2:13:08.560 this bullshit like I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for that. 2:13:08.640 --> 2:13:11.600 Like people booed him, dreamed the national anthem at a 2:13:11.680 --> 2:13:13.400 Knicks game. You can fucking do this. 2:13:13.480 --> 2:13:15.680 Scream at him, call him a piece of shit, like 2:13:16.240 --> 2:13:19.080 you know, you're not getting anything out of just letting 2:13:19.120 --> 2:13:21.600 him talk, paull him a liar, shout over him. Yeah, 2:13:21.640 --> 2:13:24.240 stop particular, Yeah, yeah, fucking cowards. 2:13:24.560 --> 2:13:27.400 I'm sorry, and yeah, yeah, you're right. 2:13:27.440 --> 2:13:30.560 I think we should definitely pay attention to the fact 2:13:30.640 --> 2:13:32.840 that Trump did cause the Knicks to lose that game. 2:13:32.920 --> 2:13:34.200 Yeah he did. Did he did? 2:13:34.440 --> 2:13:36.840 And honestly, it's that's what I like about him because 2:13:36.840 --> 2:13:39.400 it continues James. 2:13:38.720 --> 2:13:39.400 Streak of. 2:13:40.920 --> 2:13:43.920 House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked about these claims on 2:13:43.960 --> 2:13:47.800 Monday and said that the vote counting in California quote 2:13:47.840 --> 2:13:51.480 unquote stinks to high heaven, and that the schemes are 2:13:51.520 --> 2:13:56.760 so quote unquote diabolical that it's impossible to prove election ragging. 2:13:57.040 --> 2:13:57.920 The present keeps. 2:13:57.720 --> 2:14:00.920 Saying that there's election fraud in the California marraw is. 2:14:00.960 --> 2:14:02.520 What evidence is there to prove them? 2:14:02.680 --> 2:14:03.840 You tell me, Manu. 2:14:04.320 --> 2:14:07.120 They are counting votes weeks after the election. We have 2:14:07.400 --> 2:14:11.320 entire nations with huge populations, like India that can count 2:14:11.360 --> 2:14:12.000 their votes. 2:14:11.760 --> 2:14:14.360 In twenty four to four saying it's rigged, like the president. 2:14:13.960 --> 2:14:15.720 I'm not saying it's rigged. I'm saying it stinks to 2:14:15.800 --> 2:14:19.400 high heaven, and everybody knows that. Let's let's let's remove 2:14:19.440 --> 2:14:23.520 the appearance of impropriety. Let's have what a concept, Let's 2:14:23.520 --> 2:14:26.840 have votes on an election the day of the election. 2:14:27.000 --> 2:14:28.840 That's what many states are able to do. I think 2:14:28.880 --> 2:14:30.880 California is playing around with us. 2:14:30.920 --> 2:14:33.240 But what evidence is there to prove that there is ringing? 2:14:33.360 --> 2:14:36.160 I don't Some of these efforts are so diabolical and 2:14:36.240 --> 2:14:38.760 so far upstream it is impossible to prove. But I 2:14:38.760 --> 2:14:41.360 think everybody knows instinctively something is wrong here. 2:14:41.920 --> 2:14:44.080 So this is I think very clearly a preview of 2:14:44.120 --> 2:14:46.320 what's to come in the interim election. Yeah, for sure, 2:14:47.200 --> 2:14:49.960 and they are kind of laying this out here. It's 2:14:50.080 --> 2:14:52.640 of course impossible to prove, but we all know that 2:14:52.680 --> 2:14:53.240 it's wrong. 2:14:53.760 --> 2:14:54.280 Yeah. 2:14:54.400 --> 2:14:56.200 This is going to be every election for the rest 2:14:56.200 --> 2:14:56.800 of our life. 2:14:56.880 --> 2:14:59.520 Yeah yeah, yeah, but there's going to be anything that 2:14:59.600 --> 2:15:04.400 happened that does not meet the increasingly fanciful version of 2:15:04.440 --> 2:15:07.960 reality they have to believe. Right, it's not just elections, 2:15:08.000 --> 2:15:12.120 it's literally any fact that like is inconvenient. There's any 2:15:12.240 --> 2:15:15.200 storm that shouldn't have happened based on when they think 2:15:15.240 --> 2:15:18.480 a storm should happen, right, Yeah, this is just life now. 2:15:18.960 --> 2:15:22.720 Yeah, it's necessary to create the version of reality that 2:15:22.760 --> 2:15:23.520 they're existing in. 2:15:23.680 --> 2:15:26.800 Yeah, we're gonna go on break and then discuss the programs. 2:15:26.840 --> 2:15:45.520 In Northern Ireland, we are the fat ooh yeah. 2:15:45.960 --> 2:15:49.920 On Tuesday July ninth, This is the day before we 2:15:49.960 --> 2:15:52.800 are recording this, which is important because we don't know 2:15:52.880 --> 2:15:55.320 how that's going to proceed from here when you're listening 2:15:55.320 --> 2:15:59.560 to it. But on June ninth, there were widespread attacks 2:15:59.640 --> 2:16:02.320 on the homes of non white people in Ireland in 2:16:02.400 --> 2:16:05.280 what I and many others have described as a poke 2:16:05.400 --> 2:16:09.760 rom mass assailants kicked down doors, forced on white people 2:16:09.760 --> 2:16:12.920 from their homes, and lit houses and cars on fire. 2:16:13.040 --> 2:16:16.640 People were being stopped in the streets. I'm going to 2:16:16.760 --> 2:16:20.600 read a little bit from a report from Henel Aufman, 2:16:20.680 --> 2:16:24.720 who was on the scene reporting on what was going on. Quote, 2:16:25.760 --> 2:16:28.600 as a woman from an ethnic minority background looked down 2:16:28.640 --> 2:16:31.040 from an upstairs window, some of the men rushed the 2:16:31.080 --> 2:16:34.400 front door and broke it down, with the attack thick 2:16:34.440 --> 2:16:38.360 with smoke from fireworks. They attacked the downstairs windows with 2:16:38.440 --> 2:16:41.280 bricks as they stormed the property. Some claim to be 2:16:41.360 --> 2:16:45.800 quote liberating it. Graffiti nearby demanded quote local homes for 2:16:45.920 --> 2:16:50.279 local people. A woman in the crowd said to her friend, 2:16:50.400 --> 2:16:52.600 quote there's wee girls inside. 2:16:53.520 --> 2:16:54.360 Yeah. 2:16:54.840 --> 2:17:01.320 It is an extremely bleak and worrying event. The nominal 2:17:01.440 --> 2:17:05.359 cause of this program was a video of a stabbing 2:17:05.400 --> 2:17:07.959 in Belfast that has gone viral on social media, which 2:17:08.000 --> 2:17:12.800 has been amplified by writing forces both in Ireland, the 2:17:12.920 --> 2:17:16.680 UK and across the world, probably most famously by Elon Musk. 2:17:16.680 --> 2:17:19.160 We will touch on that more in a second, but 2:17:19.680 --> 2:17:22.400 before we say anything about the broader context, I think 2:17:22.400 --> 2:17:26.480 it's important to state two things here. One Ireland and also, 2:17:26.560 --> 2:17:29.640 particularly the factions of Irish politics are going to be 2:17:29.680 --> 2:17:32.800 getting to here has had racism problems long before any 2:17:32.840 --> 2:17:35.960 of these events. Famously, you know, if you want to 2:17:35.959 --> 2:17:38.160 look at the most immediate stuff in the recent past, 2:17:39.120 --> 2:17:42.880 exactly one year ago today in Northern Ireland there was 2:17:43.320 --> 2:17:47.680 a smaller race riot. There was a smaller scale version 2:17:47.840 --> 2:17:51.240 of the thing we're seeing here, with less damage, but 2:17:51.320 --> 2:17:53.760 still you know, absolutely terrifying effects. 2:17:54.120 --> 2:17:57.800 This very much rhymes with the race riots that we 2:17:57.840 --> 2:17:59.800 saw in the UK a couple of years ago. Yeah, 2:18:00.240 --> 2:18:05.480 like a similar, similar deal, similar motivation, mobs attacking hotel 2:18:05.560 --> 2:18:08.360 that point is more focused on hotels that refugees were 2:18:08.360 --> 2:18:08.840 believed at. 2:18:08.840 --> 2:18:11.039 But yeah, like you were saying, we basically the same idea. 2:18:11.720 --> 2:18:14.600 Yeah, these are white mobs. It's also I think important 2:18:14.600 --> 2:18:17.720 to note, on top of just the general sort of 2:18:17.800 --> 2:18:21.720 racism of virus society, this program is largely taking place 2:18:21.760 --> 2:18:25.200 in loyalist neighborhoods. You know, these are places with very 2:18:25.280 --> 2:18:28.640 very long standing far right paramilitaries, with very close ties 2:18:28.680 --> 2:18:31.120 to the police. A lot of the people in the 2:18:31.160 --> 2:18:34.440 streets are you know, sort of parts of old loyalist 2:18:34.480 --> 2:18:39.400 paramilitary and criminal networks. These are in many cases like 2:18:39.520 --> 2:18:41.840 believed to be the same networks that you know, we're 2:18:41.840 --> 2:18:44.959 doing shit during the troubles and have been active in 2:18:45.040 --> 2:18:49.680 various forms throughout the occupation of Ireland and deportation's. Belfast 2:18:49.720 --> 2:18:52.560 notes that leaked emails from police after the twenty twenty 2:18:52.600 --> 2:18:56.400 five riots they are from the riots themselves, and they said, quote, 2:18:56.640 --> 2:19:00.600 it is important for you to understand our expectations. Unless 2:19:00.600 --> 2:19:03.680 there is an obvious article to issue, we do not 2:19:03.879 --> 2:19:08.240 expect you to expose yourself to significant unnecessary risk. So 2:19:08.480 --> 2:19:11.240 what that in effect is saying is that this is 2:19:11.440 --> 2:19:14.400 in effect a standown order. If you don't if you 2:19:14.440 --> 2:19:15.600 think that anything would be even. 2:19:15.600 --> 2:19:16.920 Let the mobs see what they're gonna do. 2:19:17.120 --> 2:19:19.880 Yeah, right, And that's just the stuff. This is from 2:19:19.920 --> 2:19:22.480 the twenty twenty five riots. Presumably similar orders went out 2:19:22.560 --> 2:19:24.960 during these riots. And that's just the stuff that they 2:19:25.320 --> 2:19:28.800 sent via email, right, that that has been leaked out. 2:19:29.440 --> 2:19:33.400 The police, again very notably, did very very little while 2:19:33.400 --> 2:19:35.400 all of this was happening, while people's houses were being 2:19:35.400 --> 2:19:37.520 burned down, while people were being dragged out of their homes. 2:19:38.480 --> 2:19:42.640 These attacks also come after weeks of far right discourse 2:19:42.840 --> 2:19:48.119 in the UK about like the killings of two white 2:19:48.160 --> 2:19:51.960 men by non white men. Yeah, I mean on the BBC, 2:19:52.400 --> 2:19:54.600 they are having debates about whether there is a quote 2:19:54.600 --> 2:19:58.880 two tiered police system, which you know, when I initially 2:19:58.920 --> 2:20:01.240 saw that, I was confused, because, yeah, two tier police 2:20:01.240 --> 2:20:03.760 system has been the way that you know, like anti 2:20:03.840 --> 2:20:06.000 anti police violence activists have talked about the way the 2:20:06.000 --> 2:20:08.040 police system functions. Where there is a way the police 2:20:08.080 --> 2:20:09.920 functions for white people, which is that it treats them stiff, 2:20:09.959 --> 2:20:11.400 cant better, and then there's the way it works for 2:20:11.440 --> 2:20:13.920 non white people. The far right has flipped this on 2:20:13.959 --> 2:20:16.039 his head and is now arguing to an extent that 2:20:16.080 --> 2:20:19.280 he's now sort of national discourse on the fucking BBC 2:20:19.920 --> 2:20:21.960 is arguing that there is a two tier police system 2:20:21.959 --> 2:20:23.520 where non white people are a lot off the hook 2:20:23.640 --> 2:20:27.480 for their crimes and where white people aren't protected by 2:20:27.480 --> 2:20:32.080 the law. This is nonsense, but it has been spreading rapidly, 2:20:32.120 --> 2:20:35.680 pushed by far right actors like Tommy Robinson and of 2:20:35.720 --> 2:20:37.840 course Elon Musk. Yeah. 2:20:38.240 --> 2:20:42.240 Yeah, Musk specifically has been really pushing Yeah, and he 2:20:42.120 --> 2:20:44.400 was he was a big figure too in what happened 2:20:44.400 --> 2:20:45.520 in the UK a bit ago. 2:20:45.840 --> 2:20:47.800 Yeah, and the twenty twenty five Irish riots too. 2:20:48.520 --> 2:20:49.360 That's exactly right. 2:20:49.400 --> 2:20:53.160 And he's been NonStop pushing and making posts, making claims 2:20:53.200 --> 2:20:55.240 to the extent of like we need to the only 2:20:55.240 --> 2:20:57.519 way things will get better is if we keep protesting. 2:20:57.600 --> 2:21:00.640 You know, this has to be handled like forcefully, like 2:21:00.640 --> 2:21:01.720 that sort of shit, like. 2:21:01.640 --> 2:21:02.160 He has been. 2:21:02.879 --> 2:21:05.600 He has been basically devoting, as far as I can tell, 2:21:05.680 --> 2:21:07.560 the week that he is about to have and or 2:21:07.600 --> 2:21:10.080 that he is having his IPO, devoting the majority of 2:21:10.120 --> 2:21:11.680 his time to in siding up agram. 2:21:12.080 --> 2:21:13.360 Yes, seems to be. 2:21:14.080 --> 2:21:17.400 Yeah. He retweeted a post from Restore Britain, which is 2:21:17.440 --> 2:21:22.480 a somehow even further right just yeah, straight up effectively 2:21:22.520 --> 2:21:27.760 fascist party, even further right than the already horrifying Reform Party, 2:21:28.680 --> 2:21:33.440 saying quote, do not make peace with evil, destroy it. Yeah. 2:21:33.680 --> 2:21:35.600 There's another one where he's like, either you fight back 2:21:35.680 --> 2:21:38.360 or you die. That's what it comes down to. There's 2:21:38.400 --> 2:21:42.440 been a lot of comparisons between Elon Musk and Radio Rwanda, 2:21:42.560 --> 2:21:45.359 which is a radio outlet that was broadcasting calls for THEOND. 2:21:45.520 --> 2:21:49.760 Just well, and that's that's not accurate really, but you're 2:21:49.800 --> 2:21:55.160 referring to ATLM right, Radio Television Lib. Yes, that RADIOOND 2:21:55.240 --> 2:21:58.039 is a different thing. Oh sorry, am I like rady 2:21:58.120 --> 2:22:01.600 Render is a currently existing corporation, so we need to 2:22:01.640 --> 2:22:03.480 be extremely clear in our terminology. 2:22:04.240 --> 2:22:06.080 Let me be very clear here because I actually had 2:22:06.080 --> 2:22:09.440 this pulled up for this. OURTLM was the radio station 2:22:10.080 --> 2:22:13.320 that is often accused of helping to coordinate or some 2:22:13.320 --> 2:22:16.200 people will just say stood up and cited the genocide. 2:22:16.600 --> 2:22:19.080 It was owned by a guy named Felician Kabuga, who 2:22:19.120 --> 2:22:23.400 was an extremely wealthy Rwandan man and who was personally 2:22:23.520 --> 2:22:26.039 very much involved in like wanting to. 2:22:26.040 --> 2:22:27.160 Push for the genocide. 2:22:27.320 --> 2:22:31.160 RTLM regularly called Tucci's cockroaches and encouraged people to cut 2:22:31.240 --> 2:22:34.640 down the tall trees. However, there are also good reasons 2:22:34.640 --> 2:22:37.840 why this is not quite as direct as it seems. 2:22:38.560 --> 2:22:42.760 H TLM did not coordinate attacks, they did not plan 2:22:43.040 --> 2:22:47.840 specific actions, and analysis in the modern day has shown 2:22:47.879 --> 2:22:50.040 that a lot of the worst massacres, in fact, the 2:22:50.080 --> 2:22:52.640 majority of the worst massacers, did not have any direct 2:22:52.680 --> 2:22:57.040 relation to our TLM. Now, RTLM's propaganda and broadcasts played 2:22:57.080 --> 2:23:00.240 a role in the genocide and incited and continued to 2:23:00.280 --> 2:23:04.040 like escalate the violence. But it's not exactly I would argue. 2:23:04.040 --> 2:23:06.640 It looks like and we Also, we don't have perfect 2:23:06.680 --> 2:23:10.800 analysis of what's just happened in Northern Ireland, so maybe 2:23:10.800 --> 2:23:13.080 this will prove to me wrong. It looks like what 2:23:13.200 --> 2:23:16.800 Musk is doing has more of a direct positive effect. Yeah, 2:23:16.800 --> 2:23:18.960 but that's also not clear to me at the moment. 2:23:19.040 --> 2:23:21.720 Yeah. Yeah, my estimation so far. But again, like this 2:23:21.800 --> 2:23:23.600 is changing my estimation so far is that I think 2:23:23.640 --> 2:23:26.440 it is actually closer to it in that I think 2:23:26.520 --> 2:23:29.640 I think even if Musk isn't there, something like this happens, sure, 2:23:29.720 --> 2:23:32.360 because I think a lot of this is mobilization through 2:23:32.920 --> 2:23:35.440 like very local Irish political forces in these sort of 2:23:35.520 --> 2:23:36.240 unionist networks. 2:23:36.240 --> 2:23:39.280 But it's also really difficult to say just because all 2:23:39.320 --> 2:23:44.240 of those networks have been heavily influenced by Musk's X 2:23:44.360 --> 2:23:45.560 in the lasts two. 2:23:45.720 --> 2:23:49.359 So it's yeah, I don't know how you want to Yeah. 2:23:49.120 --> 2:23:52.359 And it's feeding off of like a decade of intensifying 2:23:52.400 --> 2:23:56.480 anti immigrant sentiment across the UK, including Ireland and Northern Ireland. 2:23:56.680 --> 2:23:57.000 Yeah. 2:23:57.080 --> 2:23:59.080 And this is also something that people will point out 2:23:59.080 --> 2:24:01.800 when you're talking Aboutanda and RTLM, which is that like, 2:24:01.840 --> 2:24:04.359 well as much blame as you want to give RTLM 2:24:04.400 --> 2:24:07.600 and some of these other media organizations that unquestionably had 2:24:07.680 --> 2:24:12.279 some role in motivating and fueling what happened. 2:24:12.400 --> 2:24:12.800 Mm hmm. 2:24:13.080 --> 2:24:16.360 I mean the root of the Rwandan genocide comes from 2:24:16.440 --> 2:24:18.600 the period of colonialism when the Tutsies were like a 2:24:18.640 --> 2:24:20.840 favored group of people within the country, which is what 2:24:21.080 --> 2:24:25.080 started a lot of these like underlying hatreds, right, is 2:24:25.200 --> 2:24:28.160 the way in which the colonial power played these different 2:24:28.160 --> 2:24:29.080 groups off of each other. 2:24:29.480 --> 2:24:31.879 So anyway, whatever, Yeah, this is always the case. 2:24:31.920 --> 2:24:34.120 It's always going to be deeper than some guy has 2:24:34.120 --> 2:24:35.120 a media outlet. 2:24:35.240 --> 2:24:37.039 Right, that doesn't mean the media al it is not 2:24:37.560 --> 2:24:40.920 involved in what's Yeah, it's the same in Rwanda, right, 2:24:40.920 --> 2:24:44.560 like we had the intrahamway like right, like they existed 2:24:44.640 --> 2:24:47.400 and they give it distinct from RTLM. But like the 2:24:47.560 --> 2:24:50.840 environment that allows those two things to happen. Nothing's monocles. 2:24:50.959 --> 2:24:52.720 People want to do this in history. 2:24:52.760 --> 2:24:55.280 Now, and it's the difficult thing of both. It's very 2:24:55.320 --> 2:24:57.640 important to point out when something like this rhymes was 2:24:57.760 --> 2:25:01.199 something that happened in a jitocide they killed a million people. 2:25:01.560 --> 2:25:03.879 And also the more you learn about stuff like this 2:25:03.920 --> 2:25:06.560 when people make those comparisons, the more learned people are like, 2:25:06.600 --> 2:25:07.800 well that's not quite right. 2:25:07.840 --> 2:25:10.160 Actually, this is it was a little different then, you know. 2:25:11.480 --> 2:25:15.800 Yeah, the Genocybe Memorial Museum in Kigati is the most 2:25:15.840 --> 2:25:16.440 moving museum. 2:25:16.520 --> 2:25:18.920 If it's stud in my life, it's incredible. If you 2:25:18.920 --> 2:25:20.720 have the giant table in Chuka. We need to do 2:25:20.800 --> 2:25:25.400 more inmbastards on Rwanda. But yeah, anyway, wonderful country. 2:25:26.000 --> 2:25:28.320 Yeah. The one thing I also want to mention sort 2:25:28.320 --> 2:25:30.240 of different closing here, is that you know, again, like 2:25:30.240 --> 2:25:31.680 part of the reason this is happening, part of the 2:25:31.720 --> 2:25:35.040 reason it's been a lot of you know, these of 2:25:35.320 --> 2:25:37.840 these unionist networks. Part of the reason it's happening the 2:25:37.840 --> 2:25:39.760 way that it is is that this is a very 2:25:40.080 --> 2:25:43.680 very old white supremacist project, going back like you know, 2:25:43.800 --> 2:25:46.800 like through the British occupation of Ireland, right, and it's 2:25:46.840 --> 2:25:49.800 a project that's been aligned with like the Randouins were 2:25:49.840 --> 2:25:53.440 once British in the sense of like like the you know, 2:25:53.920 --> 2:25:56.119 this this is carrying on the sort of long imperial 2:25:56.160 --> 2:25:59.160 British tradition is like the world one of the world's 2:25:59.320 --> 2:26:02.400 largest and most blooding and ruthless bite supremacist organizations. 2:26:03.200 --> 2:26:05.640 Yeah, we talked about this in the meeting we were 2:26:05.680 --> 2:26:10.720 having beforehand, but like loyalists in Northern Ireland have regularly 2:26:10.760 --> 2:26:13.840 made a habit of particularly in the seventies and eighties, 2:26:13.959 --> 2:26:18.240 displaying Rhodesia flags, in the nineties apartheid South Africa flags. 2:26:18.480 --> 2:26:21.800 It's very common. Flags like you open. 2:26:22.320 --> 2:26:22.520 Yeah. 2:26:23.160 --> 2:26:26.920 Partly is a direct response to the internationalism of republicanism. 2:26:26.959 --> 2:26:28.880 They just decided to align with the worst people on 2:26:28.920 --> 2:26:29.400 the planet. 2:26:29.640 --> 2:26:29.879 Yep. 2:26:30.320 --> 2:26:32.600 Yeah, there'll be another episode of Up on this Monday 2:26:32.640 --> 2:26:36.040 that goes into more detail and we'll have more information 2:26:36.080 --> 2:26:39.080 as it comes out. This is again a rapidly training situation. 2:26:39.160 --> 2:26:40.000 There might be more. 2:26:40.160 --> 2:26:40.800 Time you hear it. 2:26:41.360 --> 2:26:45.000 Days of this. It's possible that the police will crack 2:26:45.040 --> 2:26:48.080 down harder because there's been some pressure put on them 2:26:48.200 --> 2:26:53.240 by basically every government's involved in this, but we just 2:26:53.400 --> 2:26:56.520 simply don't know that at this time. And yeah, I 2:26:56.640 --> 2:26:58.480 see absolutely horrifying day. 2:26:58.840 --> 2:27:02.960 Yeah, pretty hard to see through. Immigration in the US 2:27:03.000 --> 2:27:07.200 now another country where things going great. So a judge 2:27:07.200 --> 2:27:10.160 has ruled that Trump administration's broad restrictions on asylum and 2:27:10.320 --> 2:27:13.560 work permit. These were issued after the shooting of two 2:27:13.680 --> 2:27:18.360 National Guards people in DC are unlawful. Quote from the 2:27:18.400 --> 2:27:20.600 court order here, more than six months to go. The 2:27:20.720 --> 2:27:23.440 United States Citizenship and Immigration Services in acted a series 2:27:23.440 --> 2:27:26.200 of policies through the lives of countless immigrants living in 2:27:26.240 --> 2:27:29.920 the United States into indeterminate legal limbo. The agency announced 2:27:29.920 --> 2:27:31.840 that it will be placing an indefinite pause on the 2:27:31.840 --> 2:27:35.920 adjudication of immigration benefit requests from individuals from thirty nine African, Asian, 2:27:36.000 --> 2:27:39.200 Latin American, and Middle Eastern countries. Since then, individuals from 2:27:39.240 --> 2:27:42.680 these countries have been categorically barred from receiving final decisions on, 2:27:42.879 --> 2:27:45.800 among other things, their asylum work permit, Greek caard and 2:27:45.840 --> 2:27:50.800 citizenship application. And USCIS hold on judications cannot be attributed 2:27:50.840 --> 2:27:54.000 to anything that these individuals did wrong. Rather, ed arises 2:27:54.040 --> 2:27:57.400 solely by the hapbitance of their birth. And then I 2:27:57.440 --> 2:28:01.040 found this interesting in the court documents here in ruling 2:28:01.080 --> 2:28:03.000 on these motions of court is reminded of a line 2:28:03.080 --> 2:28:06.119 often repeated in discussions around immigration policy. If people wish 2:28:06.160 --> 2:28:07.960 to immigrate to the United States, they ought to follow 2:28:07.959 --> 2:28:10.360 the law and do things the right way. This case 2:28:10.480 --> 2:28:15.800 serves as a perfect example of immigrants doing just that. 2:28:15.840 --> 2:28:20.360 They went on to say that the USCAS had used 2:28:20.360 --> 2:28:24.360 what they called pretextual concerns of national security that mask 2:28:24.440 --> 2:28:28.520 anti immigrant sentiment that is forbidden from letting influence its 2:28:28.520 --> 2:28:31.200 decision making legal terms. That means that us cis IS 2:28:31.240 --> 2:28:34.960 actions are a contrary to law, arbitrary and capricious. There's a 2:28:35.000 --> 2:28:40.200 fairly like emphatic court response. Right, this will affect a 2:28:40.400 --> 2:28:42.560 great deal of people. It has left a great deal 2:28:42.560 --> 2:28:43.680 of people in limbo. 2:28:43.840 --> 2:28:44.040 Right. 2:28:44.400 --> 2:28:46.760 Most famously, I guess there were people who were at 2:28:46.760 --> 2:28:49.320 the natural the stage of their naturalization where they take 2:28:49.360 --> 2:28:52.720 the oath to become American citizens, right, the very final step. 2:28:53.480 --> 2:28:56.440 It is obviously a formality. You've passed the background checks, 2:28:56.440 --> 2:28:58.120 done the interviews, et cetera, et cetera, but it's still 2:28:58.120 --> 2:29:00.240 a necessary step. Without doing it, you do not become 2:29:00.280 --> 2:29:03.240 a citizen. And those people had been delayed unable to 2:29:03.280 --> 2:29:05.320 do that. They will be able to proceed with that. 2:29:05.800 --> 2:29:08.439 Other people will be able to proceed with their process 2:29:08.959 --> 2:29:12.760 with the caveat that, uscas, if we have reported before 2:29:12.760 --> 2:29:16.080 in the show, is heavily focused on denaturalization, and it 2:29:16.160 --> 2:29:18.560 might be very hard for them to actually make that 2:29:18.640 --> 2:29:22.480 progress and get USCIS to move on stuff. Talking of 2:29:22.520 --> 2:29:27.720 de naturalization, the DOJ has begun proceedings against seventeen people 2:29:27.959 --> 2:29:30.959 IS people are either accused or convicted of serious crimes. 2:29:31.520 --> 2:29:33.720 What it seems that in most cases people have been 2:29:33.720 --> 2:29:37.320 adjudicated to have committed crimes. In some cases they played 2:29:37.320 --> 2:29:42.360 guilty to crimes after they naturalized, but that they were 2:29:42.480 --> 2:29:46.240 doing before they naturalized. And what they are arguing here, 2:29:46.280 --> 2:29:49.840 the DOJ is arguing is that therefore they lied when 2:29:49.840 --> 2:29:52.240 they were naturalized because they were asked if they had 2:29:52.240 --> 2:29:54.760 committed any crimes which they had not been arrested. So 2:29:54.840 --> 2:29:58.920 by not confessing to those crimes in their interview, they 2:29:59.160 --> 2:30:03.160 were therefore or lying. They were lying on the forum yes, 2:30:03.200 --> 2:30:05.560 on the form or in the interview, or both, and 2:30:05.600 --> 2:30:08.080 therefore that is why they are trying to de naturalizing. 2:30:08.240 --> 2:30:11.360 This is a large denaturalization. Seventeen people, there's a lot. 2:30:11.680 --> 2:30:13.400 A couple of them are so relged to have applied 2:30:13.400 --> 2:30:16.720 for immigration benefits under multiple different identities. One that I 2:30:16.760 --> 2:30:20.240 found particularly interesting is a Catholic priest who abused a 2:30:20.320 --> 2:30:23.280 minor parishioner. It's just interesting because it's interesting to see 2:30:23.320 --> 2:30:26.720 them going there. I'll follow these and kind of keep 2:30:26.760 --> 2:30:29.879 tabs on how these progress, but that they have been 2:30:30.000 --> 2:30:34.280 ramping up denaturalizations. This we are beginning to see them 2:30:34.360 --> 2:30:37.400 kind of reaping the work USCS has been doing since 2:30:37.440 --> 2:30:41.640 the Trump administration fundamentally turned that agency around and pointed 2:30:41.640 --> 2:30:46.760 it at denaturalization. Meanwhile, a GAO reportant immigration detension in 2:30:46.840 --> 2:30:50.959 Camp East Montana. I've never seen it written like Montagna 2:30:51.040 --> 2:30:55.160 with so I'm guessing it's Camp mon like like Joe Montana. 2:30:55.680 --> 2:30:55.840 Yeah. 2:30:55.879 --> 2:30:58.960 Well like I they write it says Montana, so like, 2:30:59.000 --> 2:31:02.760 I don't know, it didn't Bliss right, like it's inside 2:31:02.760 --> 2:31:05.400 Fort Bliss, so like one would expect normally, like a 2:31:05.440 --> 2:31:09.640 Spanish style pronunciation given the region. Yeah, but maybe they 2:31:09.720 --> 2:31:12.160 just like a fucking end yet I don't know, like 2:31:12.200 --> 2:31:15.560 why they're not anyway, it's Camp. Its name is spelled 2:31:15.600 --> 2:31:18.600 like the state, not the not the Spanish word for mountain. 2:31:19.080 --> 2:31:21.440 Some of the things detailed in the support are pretty shocking. 2:31:21.760 --> 2:31:26.760 A guard lost a loaded gun. Yeah, people with diabetes 2:31:26.800 --> 2:31:30.440 and HIV did not receive treatment plans and quote on Jesus. 2:31:30.520 --> 2:31:31.000 Yeah. 2:31:31.080 --> 2:31:33.840 On Febuar twenty twenty twenty six, ICE issued a discrepancy 2:31:33.879 --> 2:31:36.480 report for a detained nonsense and death by use of force. 2:31:36.600 --> 2:31:40.120 In January of twenty twenty six, the coroner's autopsy found 2:31:40.160 --> 2:31:42.920 the death to be a homicide due to asphyxiate. However, 2:31:43.000 --> 2:31:45.280 the contractor did not provide use of force and death 2:31:45.320 --> 2:31:48.480 reports to ICE as required. In addition, evidence associated with 2:31:48.560 --> 2:31:51.640 the incident was missing or destroyed. 2:31:52.280 --> 2:31:55.520 Jesus, Yeah, like one of their cards strangled someone to death, 2:31:55.680 --> 2:31:57.119 it appears, Yeah, it. 2:31:57.120 --> 2:32:00.240 Is the range of way someone could be asphyxiated, right, 2:32:00.280 --> 2:32:04.800 like A yeah, that's true, but I'm guessing the attempting 2:32:04.800 --> 2:32:07.600 to restrain this person violently and like as we've seen 2:32:07.680 --> 2:32:11.000 many other times in American history, murdered them and then 2:32:11.120 --> 2:32:14.879 evidence of that was destroyed. What is allowing this to 2:32:14.959 --> 2:32:18.279 happen is that the contract was solicited using a worldwide 2:32:18.320 --> 2:32:22.879 Expeditionary Multiple Award contract vehicle that's generally like a military 2:32:22.879 --> 2:32:27.560 contract vehicle. It allows and experienced pool of military contractors 2:32:27.600 --> 2:32:31.240 to apply for the contract. They probably did it like 2:32:31.280 --> 2:32:35.160 this to expedite the awarding implementation, right like Eastpontana's a 2:32:35.200 --> 2:32:37.520 soft sided facility on Fort Blaze. I've talked about it 2:32:37.520 --> 2:32:41.080 before here. Soft side facility means tense, right, it means 2:32:41.120 --> 2:32:44.840 keeping hundreds of people intense. They hired a contractor who 2:32:44.840 --> 2:32:49.240 had no experience using what's called a lowest price technically 2:32:49.360 --> 2:32:54.080 acceptable evaluation approach, so they filter out people who can't 2:32:54.200 --> 2:32:56.800 do the requirements that they have for the contract, and 2:32:56.840 --> 2:32:59.880 then they look at which of the ones it does 2:33:00.040 --> 2:33:01.600 meet the requirements has the lowest price. 2:33:01.760 --> 2:33:01.960 Right. 2:33:02.440 --> 2:33:05.760 This has resulted very clearly in them contracting someone who 2:33:05.840 --> 2:33:09.879 is completely incapable of managing a facility like this, and 2:33:09.959 --> 2:33:14.199 even among ice facilities, this one appears to be particularly heinous. 2:33:14.600 --> 2:33:18.040 And this has resulted in very, very predictable and easily 2:33:18.080 --> 2:33:21.560 foreseen human tragedies. Right, they are capable of doing better 2:33:21.600 --> 2:33:26.440 than this. Conditions were very bad bliss for afghan people, right, 2:33:26.480 --> 2:33:29.800 who came here after the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I wrote 2:33:29.840 --> 2:33:32.160 about that for the nation. You can look it up. 2:33:32.200 --> 2:33:34.560 I they interview to someone who was there. But this 2:33:34.720 --> 2:33:38.840 is even worse. Rather than learning from that, they've just 2:33:38.879 --> 2:33:42.400 gone deeper. This has resulted in at least one person 2:33:42.560 --> 2:33:44.840 being killed. It's pretty horrific. 2:33:45.440 --> 2:33:47.960 Let's go and break and then we will return for 2:33:48.080 --> 2:33:52.320 some stories about trans healthcare and war with Iran. 2:34:05.200 --> 2:34:06.119 All right, we are back. 2:34:07.040 --> 2:34:12.160 I have a sort of hodgepodge collection of stories related 2:34:12.520 --> 2:34:16.039 to trans healthcare and trans writes to the United States 2:34:16.840 --> 2:34:19.400 that I'm going to go kind of sequentially, and they 2:34:19.440 --> 2:34:22.640 some of them tied together. But let's start with the 2:34:22.680 --> 2:34:26.600 trans military ban. We've been upted on this. A federal 2:34:26.640 --> 2:34:30.160 appeals court has at least temporarily blocked the Pentagon from 2:34:30.240 --> 2:34:35.080 expelling transgender members of the military, though trans people may 2:34:35.080 --> 2:34:38.560 be barred from enlisting. So this is kind of sort 2:34:38.600 --> 2:34:41.440 of like a new form of don't ask, don't tell, 2:34:41.480 --> 2:34:45.160 in a way of you can get in if you're 2:34:45.200 --> 2:34:47.840 not trans, but once you're in and you are trans, 2:34:47.879 --> 2:34:51.480 there's no legal grounds to remove you from the military. 2:34:52.320 --> 2:34:54.800 This was a two to one ruling that found hag 2:34:54.959 --> 2:34:58.879 Set's anti trans policy was quote driven by the bare 2:34:59.000 --> 2:35:04.000 desire to harm of politically unpopular group and quote both 2:35:04.120 --> 2:35:07.800 arbitrary and based on animus. For those reasons, the policy 2:35:07.879 --> 2:35:12.400 violates the plaintiff Apelli's constitutional right to equal protection of 2:35:12.600 --> 2:35:15.959 the law unquote the last, but is very important, like 2:35:16.000 --> 2:35:18.320 the equal protection clause in cases like this is going 2:35:18.400 --> 2:35:21.440 to be the main thing that trans people are able 2:35:21.480 --> 2:35:25.240 to rely on now. Circuit Judge Robert Wilkins and Obama 2:35:25.280 --> 2:35:29.480 appointe wrote that the Trump admin claimed their anti trans 2:35:29.520 --> 2:35:33.440 policy is solely about whether the military can disqualify people 2:35:33.480 --> 2:35:37.640 from service due to a mental health condition like gender dysphoria. 2:35:38.240 --> 2:35:41.400 Judge Wilkins wrote, quote, but the record shows that the 2:35:41.400 --> 2:35:45.240 purpose of the haig Seth policy is to target applicants 2:35:45.240 --> 2:35:49.039 and service members who express what the administration believes is 2:35:49.120 --> 2:35:52.920 a quote unquote false gender identity, and the policy goes 2:35:53.040 --> 2:35:58.199 far beyond disqualifying persons currently or recently suffering from gender dysphoria. 2:35:58.680 --> 2:36:02.680 Some of those disqualifications are completely unexplained and have no 2:36:02.840 --> 2:36:07.520 reasonable justification unquote. Haig Seth almost immediately announced he is 2:36:07.560 --> 2:36:10.720 appealing to the Supreme Court. Oh boy, we will see 2:36:10.760 --> 2:36:11.520 where this goes. 2:36:11.760 --> 2:36:12.000 YEP. 2:36:12.879 --> 2:36:16.720 Last month, the DOJ announced a settlement with the Texas 2:36:16.840 --> 2:36:21.440 Children's Hospital as part of an ongoing national investigation into 2:36:21.480 --> 2:36:25.440 violations of federal law for providing gender affirming care to miners. 2:36:26.440 --> 2:36:30.200 The Texas Children's Hospital has entered into agreements with both 2:36:30.240 --> 2:36:33.600 the DOJ and the Texas Aturney General Ken Paxton that 2:36:33.760 --> 2:36:38.000 includes a commitment to not perform quote unquote sex rejecting 2:36:38.120 --> 2:36:43.240 procedures on minors, which the DOJ says includes puberty blockers 2:36:43.280 --> 2:36:46.240 and cross sex hormones. This is a new term that 2:36:46.240 --> 2:36:50.840 they're really really rolling out it's sex rejecting procedures. That 2:36:51.240 --> 2:36:53.000 you're going to see this a lot more in these 2:36:53.040 --> 2:36:54.400 next few weeks to months. 2:36:54.680 --> 2:36:56.200 Yeah. 2:36:56.480 --> 2:37:00.440 The hospital in Texas also agreed to pay over ten 2:37:00.520 --> 2:37:04.120 million dollars in damages and civil penalties to quote resolve 2:37:04.160 --> 2:37:08.600 allegations that it submitted false billings to public and private 2:37:08.760 --> 2:37:14.480 payers to secure insurance coverage for pediatric sex rejecting procedures. 2:37:14.760 --> 2:37:17.920 The Department alleges this conduct violated the Federal Food, Drug, 2:37:17.959 --> 2:37:21.920 and Cosmetic Act, the False Claims Act, and federal Fraud 2:37:22.000 --> 2:37:25.760 and Conspiracy laws un quote. So they're saying that by 2:37:25.800 --> 2:37:30.240 billing insurance with their public or private for quote unquote 2:37:30.280 --> 2:37:33.760 sex rejecting procedures trans healthcare, that this was an act 2:37:33.760 --> 2:37:35.720 of fraud. Now, this is a settlement, and at the 2:37:35.800 --> 2:37:38.039 end of the settlement they do note that these are 2:37:38.080 --> 2:37:40.240 just allegations that these have not actually been proven. The 2:37:40.280 --> 2:37:43.160 liability has not been proven in a court, but these 2:37:43.160 --> 2:37:46.640 are the allegations that resulted in the settlement. Now, as 2:37:46.640 --> 2:37:49.160 a part of the settlement, the Children's Hospital will also 2:37:49.680 --> 2:37:54.920 open the first ever quote unquote D transition clinic. So 2:37:55.840 --> 2:37:58.240 D transition Care is the same as transition care. Right, 2:37:58.240 --> 2:38:02.080 it is the same type of care. Yeah, I know this, 2:38:01.720 --> 2:38:04.600 This is like what I do. There's not enough D 2:38:04.800 --> 2:38:08.080 transitioners out in the world to sustain an actual full clinic, 2:38:08.720 --> 2:38:12.320 which points to the fact that this clinic is not 2:38:12.600 --> 2:38:17.199 gonna be used for consenting D transition. This is mainly 2:38:17.240 --> 2:38:19.400 going to be used as a conversion therapy clinic for 2:38:19.800 --> 2:38:22.840 kids who want to transition but are now going to 2:38:22.879 --> 2:38:26.279 be forced to go to a clinic like this because 2:38:26.280 --> 2:38:30.199 they're not able to get their healthcare through this hospital 2:38:30.840 --> 2:38:34.480 or really like in Texas as a minor. The Cleveland 2:38:34.520 --> 2:38:38.840 Clinic in Ohio settled a very similar case last week, 2:38:39.400 --> 2:38:43.200 paying three hundred and eight thousand dollars fine and agree 2:38:43.280 --> 2:38:46.680 to dedicate two million dollars in funds for D transition 2:38:46.800 --> 2:38:51.040 care while promising to not provide gender firming healthcare to 2:38:51.120 --> 2:38:55.200 minors for twenty years. That is the part of the 2:38:55.240 --> 2:38:59.480 settlement in the Cleveland Clinic case. God In mid May, 2:39:00.280 --> 2:39:05.200 Oklahoma passed a bill prohibiting Medicaid coverage of gender affirming care, 2:39:05.480 --> 2:39:08.959 including surgery and HRT, as well as offering this care 2:39:09.320 --> 2:39:14.400 in state owned facilities. The bill does not cut funding. 2:39:14.480 --> 2:39:18.520 Two doctors at private health care facilities to provide HRT, 2:39:18.920 --> 2:39:22.040 as I have seen some claim online. This, like many 2:39:22.080 --> 2:39:25.640 of the Medicaid restrictions, primarily effects horror trans people on 2:39:25.760 --> 2:39:29.440 state Medicaid and may make care hard to access in 2:39:29.480 --> 2:39:33.760 the future, depending on how private hospitals react to this bill, 2:39:34.160 --> 2:39:36.800 even though it does not necessarily force them to change 2:39:36.840 --> 2:39:42.600 the way they operate. Lastly, later this summer, New York 2:39:42.640 --> 2:39:45.760 City will begin testing a pilot program for a direct, 2:39:46.080 --> 2:39:49.560 low slash, no cost gender affirming care clinic for adults, 2:39:49.959 --> 2:39:54.480 opening in a low income neighborhood in Queens. I think 2:39:54.560 --> 2:39:57.640 this is a good first step in providing access to care, 2:39:57.879 --> 2:40:01.560 considering the Trump administration's threats to restrict Medicaid and Medicare 2:40:01.600 --> 2:40:06.240 coverage or remove Medicare Medicaid eligibility from hospitals that provide 2:40:06.680 --> 2:40:10.400 firming care services. But as we know, trans youth have 2:40:10.560 --> 2:40:14.640 borne the brunt of these threats. Now, Bozmandani and the 2:40:14.640 --> 2:40:17.160 City Health Commissioner have said they are working to expand 2:40:17.400 --> 2:40:20.600 city provided gender firming care services to cover trans youth. 2:40:21.080 --> 2:40:24.120 Commissioner Martin told the City Council last Friday, quote, we 2:40:24.160 --> 2:40:26.440 are committed to this issue and want to make sure 2:40:26.440 --> 2:40:29.560 that we provide the services and resources for youth, as 2:40:29.560 --> 2:40:32.920 well as making sure we don't expose ourselves to clawbacks 2:40:32.920 --> 2:40:35.560 from the federal government which disrupt the rest of the 2:40:35.600 --> 2:40:38.560 care we can give. There's much more to come on this, 2:40:38.959 --> 2:40:41.840 but rest assured we are working on this un quote. 2:40:42.120 --> 2:40:45.560 Something that is worth understanding here is that this new 2:40:45.840 --> 2:40:49.880 pilot program, this city run low slash, no cost dropping clinic, 2:40:50.440 --> 2:40:54.160 is completely separate from the city's H and H Municipal 2:40:54.240 --> 2:40:58.680 Hospital system, which already operates multiple H and H Pride 2:40:58.680 --> 2:41:03.360 centers that currently offer youth gender firming care, including HRT. 2:41:03.959 --> 2:41:06.680 I called one this morning to confirm that they are 2:41:06.720 --> 2:41:10.960 still offering services to children people of all ages. 2:41:11.400 --> 2:41:11.520 Now. 2:41:11.720 --> 2:41:15.360 H and H is funded through city subsidies and patient 2:41:15.360 --> 2:41:19.400 revenue through Medicare. The new pilot program is attempting to 2:41:19.480 --> 2:41:23.119 launch an alternative care service that isn't reliant on insurance 2:41:23.280 --> 2:41:26.800 or federal funding if that comes into question, and they're 2:41:26.800 --> 2:41:28.840 trying to get this clinic up and running off the 2:41:28.840 --> 2:41:31.320 ground as soon as possible, and then once the pilot 2:41:31.360 --> 2:41:36.000 program is tested expanded. Last week, Mom Donnie announced a 2:41:36.040 --> 2:41:39.320 fifteen million dollar investment in gender firming care quote unquote 2:41:39.560 --> 2:41:42.160 as a first step, and said that the phones would 2:41:42.160 --> 2:41:45.000 be used to quote unquote unlock care for youth who 2:41:45.040 --> 2:41:48.440 have had their healthcare restricted by private hospitals. So it's 2:41:48.480 --> 2:41:52.560 currently unclear how exactly these funds will be used. For 2:41:52.600 --> 2:41:54.960 a while, advocates in New York City and state were 2:41:55.040 --> 2:41:57.680 fighting for care in the state budget, which delayed some 2:41:57.720 --> 2:42:01.160 of the process on this city prom care because they 2:42:01.160 --> 2:42:03.320 were expecting about eight million dollars of care from the 2:42:03.360 --> 2:42:07.119 state budget, which eventually fell through. So now the city 2:42:07.160 --> 2:42:11.080 process is ramping up on us. Earlier this year, two 2:42:11.280 --> 2:42:14.480 major hospital systems in New York City stopped providing gender 2:42:14.520 --> 2:42:19.560 firming care to trans youth ahead of prospective HHS federal 2:42:19.680 --> 2:42:23.480 rule changes that would prevent hospitals from receiving federal funding 2:42:23.760 --> 2:42:27.440 if they offer gender firming care services to youth. These 2:42:27.480 --> 2:42:29.680 rules have yet to go in effect, but two major 2:42:29.720 --> 2:42:34.359 hospitals essentially complied beforehand. The risks from the federal government 2:42:34.600 --> 2:42:38.360 aren't just isolated to restricting federal funding. The trip administration 2:42:38.400 --> 2:42:40.720 has employed a variety of threats in an attempt to 2:42:40.800 --> 2:42:45.519 intimidate patients and care providers. Last month, the two hospitals 2:42:45.520 --> 2:42:49.280 that discontinued care for trans youth received a criminal grand 2:42:49.400 --> 2:42:52.119 jury subpoena from the US Attorney's Office in the Northern 2:42:52.160 --> 2:42:56.440 District of Texas requesting information on pagans under eighteen years 2:42:56.440 --> 2:42:59.800 of age. At least one of the hospitals, Mount Sinai, 2:42:59.879 --> 2:43:03.320 is complying with the subpoena, though telling parents the records 2:43:03.360 --> 2:43:04.600 would be anonymized. 2:43:05.360 --> 2:43:06.160 Whatever that means. 2:43:06.240 --> 2:43:07.119 Oh yeah. 2:43:07.480 --> 2:43:09.760 A group of trans New Yorkers who have received care 2:43:09.920 --> 2:43:13.920 at Nyu Langoon and their parents have filed a class 2:43:14.000 --> 2:43:17.879 action lawsuit to protect their medical records. Though patients at 2:43:17.920 --> 2:43:20.120 Mount sign I could also sign on to this suit. 2:43:20.560 --> 2:43:25.080 The suit has extended the deadline for the subpoena till 2:43:25.160 --> 2:43:29.840 late June, as both the hospital and patients fight this 2:43:30.040 --> 2:43:35.080 in court. A similar administrative subpoena requesting records for youth 2:43:35.160 --> 2:43:39.440 patients was challenged and successfully blocked in Rhode Island. These 2:43:39.440 --> 2:43:41.879 subpoenas should be fought on the strongest grounds by both 2:43:41.920 --> 2:43:46.280 the patients, the state, the city, and the hospitals themselves 2:43:46.720 --> 2:43:49.879 and beyond the all ages care currently offered by the 2:43:49.959 --> 2:43:52.199 h h HELL system. I think it was also fair 2:43:52.320 --> 2:43:56.040 to advocate that the direct slow no cost drop and 2:43:56.160 --> 2:44:00.879 clinic expand to cover all ages once thelot program is 2:44:01.040 --> 2:44:03.199 up and running this summer. 2:44:03.440 --> 2:44:06.959 We'll briefly discuss the detention of an ICE officer and 2:44:07.080 --> 2:44:10.720 the war on Iran. We do have a good ICE 2:44:10.840 --> 2:44:14.000 arrest for you this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the one 2:44:14.240 --> 2:44:16.680 good out theorist. Right, let's just start there then. So, 2:44:16.879 --> 2:44:21.720 Henepin County Attorney has file charges against ICE agent Christian Castro. 2:44:22.480 --> 2:44:26.120 Castro was arrested in Texas. He is arrested by Texas 2:44:26.240 --> 2:44:30.120 rangers with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension investigators and 2:44:30.200 --> 2:44:34.440 DHS Security Office of the Inspector General staff at the scene. 2:44:34.720 --> 2:44:37.680 According to a statement by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office, 2:44:37.920 --> 2:44:40.920 Castro was charged with four counts of second degree assault 2:44:41.000 --> 2:44:43.600 and one count of falsely reporting a crime for an 2:44:43.600 --> 2:44:46.160 incident on January fourteen, twenty twenty six, when he discharged 2:44:46.200 --> 2:44:48.760 his weapon through the front door of a home, knowing 2:44:48.800 --> 2:44:51.440 there were people who had just run inside. The bullet 2:44:51.440 --> 2:44:53.360 traveled through the door and struck oneing victim in the 2:44:53.440 --> 2:44:56.520 leg before making its final impact in the wall of 2:44:56.520 --> 2:44:59.600 a child's room. They didn't know in this that the 2:44:59.640 --> 2:45:02.640 case be removed to federal court, but they say that 2:45:02.720 --> 2:45:06.200 he would still be ineligible for presidential pardon. It is 2:45:06.240 --> 2:45:11.800 not usual when announcing any prosecution to consider the impact 2:45:11.840 --> 2:45:14.840 of a presidential pardon. It is interesting that they did. 2:45:16.560 --> 2:45:19.720 The case in question refers to Castro shooting of Julio 2:45:19.760 --> 2:45:23.760 Soce Elise, in which the DHS claimed that Soca Salise 2:45:23.840 --> 2:45:26.280 and two others attacked Castro with a broom at a 2:45:26.280 --> 2:45:29.480 snowshovel and that Castro quote fired the defensive shot to 2:45:29.480 --> 2:45:32.840 defend his life. DHS very quickly dropped its case put 2:45:32.879 --> 2:45:36.120 two agents on leave for providing accounts that contradicted by 2:45:36.240 --> 2:45:39.760 video evidence. Probably Castro was one of them, right. This 2:45:39.920 --> 2:45:43.600 is interesting a that they were able to obtain the 2:45:43.840 --> 2:45:48.200 DHSOIG support. I had forgotten the DHSOIG were still doing 2:45:48.280 --> 2:45:50.200 stuff like this. To be honest, I didn't think they were. 2:45:50.560 --> 2:45:53.240 So this will be one that we will follow. That 2:45:53.440 --> 2:45:58.920 only leaves us with Iran, where this week a United 2:45:58.920 --> 2:46:04.560 States a patch helicopter was people have been using shot down. 2:46:05.040 --> 2:46:07.720 I'm not sure if it was shot. It was taken 2:46:07.800 --> 2:46:12.600 down reportedly by an Iranian drone and reportedly by a 2:46:12.640 --> 2:46:18.040 collision with that drone. It's possible that it's happened accidentally, 2:46:18.600 --> 2:46:21.920 but given other things we've seen right with in Ukraine, 2:46:21.959 --> 2:46:24.840 for example, it is possible to take down a helicopter 2:46:24.879 --> 2:46:27.240 with FPV drone, that would be my guess as to 2:46:27.280 --> 2:46:31.320 what happened here. Its crew were then rescued from the 2:46:31.360 --> 2:46:36.480 straight of horn moves by another drone, an uncrewed surface vessel. 2:46:36.720 --> 2:46:39.320 The US only bought these online in March of this year, 2:46:39.680 --> 2:46:42.520 so this is the first time that we're aware of 2:46:42.560 --> 2:46:44.760 that they were using this capacity. Right, So, this is 2:46:44.840 --> 2:46:48.360 like a boat drone, an uncrewed surface vessel, and it 2:46:48.680 --> 2:46:50.840 scooped well, I didn't scoop them up. They got on it. 2:46:50.840 --> 2:46:53.039 It collected them and then it took them to a 2:46:53.080 --> 2:46:55.600 second location where a helicopter was able to lift them up. 2:46:55.800 --> 2:46:58.560 As a direct result, and according to a saint combat 2:46:58.600 --> 2:47:01.680 the direct order of the President, the USN began self 2:47:01.680 --> 2:47:05.560 defense I'm quoting here right, quote unquote self defense strikes 2:47:05.560 --> 2:47:09.640 against Iran. They claim these strikes where a quote unquote 2:47:09.760 --> 2:47:12.720 warning shot and will not impact negotiations. But as we 2:47:12.760 --> 2:47:16.320 record this on Wednesday afternoon, they have just announced another 2:47:16.400 --> 2:47:21.320 series of strikes. This all comes after Israel and Iran 2:47:21.480 --> 2:47:26.440 exchanged missile Salvos when Iran responded to Israeli bombing and 2:47:26.520 --> 2:47:30.560 bait route and the who Thies have also claimed a 2:47:30.600 --> 2:47:33.080 missile attack on Israel and have said that they would 2:47:33.160 --> 2:47:37.640 begin targeting Israeli shipping. Again, we already teetering around the 2:47:37.720 --> 2:47:40.680 edge of this becoming a massive international conflict in a region. Again, 2:47:41.040 --> 2:47:43.520 that mean it is a massive international conflict, right, but 2:47:43.640 --> 2:47:48.320 returning to these full scale conflict that we saw until 2:47:48.440 --> 2:47:51.720 the ceasefire, which has been repeatedly violated, but the nonetheless 2:47:51.720 --> 2:47:56.400 has reduced the amount of bombing that's happening. Israel also 2:47:56.520 --> 2:48:00.320 bombed Palestine this week. Among the people killed was an 2:48:00.320 --> 2:48:04.000 eight year old boy named Judd Soliman in northern Gaza, 2:48:04.120 --> 2:48:07.520 which is tragic. Yeah, we'll keep reporting on this, Like 2:48:07.879 --> 2:48:10.039 I've tried really hard not to make our coverage of 2:48:10.120 --> 2:48:14.199 especially what's happening on around Twitter review because real people 2:48:14.200 --> 2:48:16.520 are killing and real people are dying, and like it's 2:48:16.520 --> 2:48:19.600 it's focusing on the stupid ship that the president said 2:48:19.720 --> 2:48:22.360 or that you know, net Yahoo said on Twitter, Like 2:48:22.440 --> 2:48:25.240 it'sn't a true social converted to Twitter or whatever, Like 2:48:25.800 --> 2:48:28.400 that's not really what's such steak here? Like, what's such 2:48:28.400 --> 2:48:31.440 steak is people's lives, and so I want to kind 2:48:31.440 --> 2:48:34.840 of avoid doing the back and forth social media review. 2:48:35.080 --> 2:48:38.520 But yeah, that's what I got this week. Cool oh 2:48:38.840 --> 2:48:42.680 breaking news as we as we go to press here, 2:48:42.959 --> 2:48:46.560 the Berlin Zoo has announced the name of its newborn 2:48:46.680 --> 2:48:48.200 pygmy hippopotamus, and. 2:48:48.200 --> 2:48:50.440 I thought Hitler was a mistake. I'm gonna be honest 2:48:50.440 --> 2:48:52.720 with you, guys. I don't think that's an appropriate name 2:48:52.760 --> 2:48:53.000 for them. 2:48:59.520 --> 2:49:01.680 I drop link in the chat so you can appreciate it. 2:49:01.680 --> 2:49:06.080 It's like a new moodang just dropped moment. They are 2:49:06.080 --> 2:49:09.520 calling it brochen brochun and you speak German. 2:49:09.600 --> 2:49:16.400 Sure, okay, guys, that's that's martius. Yeah, good work, guys. 2:49:16.400 --> 2:49:19.280 That sounds like a candy children aren't legally allowed to 2:49:19.320 --> 2:49:20.759 eat in my country. 2:49:21.280 --> 2:49:24.840 Another dub for German marketing. It means bread roll. I 2:49:24.840 --> 2:49:27.080 guess it is a very cute hippopotomist. That's a pretty 2:49:27.080 --> 2:49:28.879 cute name. It would be a cute name. 2:49:29.400 --> 2:49:31.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I guess if you're German, it's 2:49:31.720 --> 2:49:34.320 a cute name. Hit us up German language listeners. Does 2:49:34.320 --> 2:49:35.160 it seem cute to you? 2:49:35.200 --> 2:49:35.320 Now? 2:49:35.360 --> 2:49:37.200 Don't because you'll just get angry. At us for not 2:49:37.320 --> 2:49:41.320 understanding your strange language. In my defense, you live outside 2:49:41.320 --> 2:49:44.280 of America, the only other country in the world, right, Yeah, 2:49:44.280 --> 2:49:46.440 I think that's it. Yeah, I'm just going to ignore 2:49:46.480 --> 2:49:50.640 the Iran reporting that. Yeah, yeah, we just well we'll. 2:49:50.520 --> 2:49:54.320 Not mention that. Email us at fool Zone, tips at 2:49:54.320 --> 2:49:56.800 proton dot me. Some of you marketing fuckers are still 2:49:56.840 --> 2:49:58.560 trying remarkable. 2:49:58.720 --> 2:50:01.240 I'm pretty sure it's one person who just create new 2:50:01.920 --> 2:50:05.400 new aliases. But I'm playing whack a mole over there 2:50:05.440 --> 2:50:10.000 in the block list. Okay, I will read your name 2:50:10.480 --> 2:50:12.320 this out if you keep doing it. 2:50:13.120 --> 2:50:15.480 All right, well, I think that's going to be it 2:50:15.600 --> 2:50:18.240 for all of us here at It could happen here. 2:50:18.600 --> 2:50:20.760 That's the it, and it could happen here is this 2:50:21.200 --> 2:50:23.840 is Us Doing It podcast. 2:50:24.320 --> 2:50:26.680 Goodbye, Put a try to skull on your couch. 2:50:27.360 --> 2:50:29.000 We reported the news. 2:50:30.320 --> 2:50:31.360 We reported the news. 2:50:38.280 --> 2:50:41.480 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 2:50:41.520 --> 2:50:43.400 from now until the heat death of the universe. 2:50:44.160 --> 2:50:46.640 It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 2:50:46.840 --> 2:50:49.920 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:50:50.000 --> 2:50:52.560 cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 2:50:52.560 --> 2:50:56.680 iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, 2:50:56.959 --> 2:50:58.840 you can now find sources for it could happen here, 2:50:58.920 --> 2:51:01.879 listed directly an episode descriptions. 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