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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, But

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Mia. Are you excited today to learn about Gregory hay Bno.

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Speaker 4: You know, I would describe myself going into this as

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Speaker 4: an amateur but enthusiast Greg Bovino hater. I am very

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Speaker 4: familiar with his work in Chicago. I'm familiar with his

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Speaker 4: work in Minneapolis. I am less familiar with his other work.

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Speaker 4: I'm excited to have a higher tier of hater of

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Speaker 4: one of the worst people we've ever had.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, really a gem of the American law enforcement system.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna talk mostly today about Greg Bavino's post Korea pivot,

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Speaker 3: which seems mostly to be asking to have his whole

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Speaker 3: career back, but we can talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: his previous career work. When he was down here, he

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Speaker 3: was in ib he was in El Centro, who was

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Speaker 3: in blythe for a while, but last week Mia he

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Speaker 3: was in Portugal. Oh boy, yeah, do you want to

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Speaker 3: guess why?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: Okay, going through my by by history of Portugal, it's

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Speaker 4: a country that had a left wing military coup that

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Speaker 4: didn't go far enough by which they never quite got

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Speaker 4: rid of all the fascists.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a country that notably has a long history of fascism. Yes,

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Speaker 3: which is where he was. Actually he was there in

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Speaker 3: a remigration summit.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, yeah, Like, oh so.

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to use the conference's own website here.

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Speaker 3: It is a set fiscal, cultural, economic, social, political, and

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Speaker 3: logistical policies whose objective is to prevent population and replacement

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Speaker 3: through the reversal of migratory flows. There's nothing there about

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Speaker 3: undocumented people. There's nothing there about visas, right, because this

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Speaker 3: isn't about that. This is about race and ethnicity and

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Speaker 3: removing people who do not line up with what you

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Speaker 3: consider to be the national race.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is this is the method cleansing campaign.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, obviously there's like a lot of parallels in

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Speaker 4: the history of all of these countries, but like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I think if you if you look at the most

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Speaker 4: immediate one. It's oh, this is like the shit the

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Speaker 4: Nazis were talking about doing. Well, they were building the

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Speaker 4: concentration camps with like Jewish people, right, is that they

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Speaker 4: were going to like deport them all to Israel or whatever. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we'll keep moving them east and at the very least

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Speaker 4: this is an ethnic cleansing plan.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the explicit goal, right that there is not

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Speaker 3: mention in that definition of undocumented people, even the way

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Speaker 3: that they have bea refers to refer to it as

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Speaker 3: illegal aliens, a term he uses a lot, and think

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Speaker 3: he sometimes uses it in quite elastic fashion. But even

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Speaker 3: in this case, that is not what this conference is about. No, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is very much a conference about a white Europe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It was organized by Martin Selner. Selmer is a neo

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Speaker 3: Nazi who famously exchanged emails with Brenton tarrent at a

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Speaker 3: christ Church shooter.

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Speaker 4: Oh great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Baffino spoke about this at the conference, and he

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Speaker 3: said that they hadn't met in person before, but after

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Speaker 3: talking for a little while, they found they were out

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Speaker 3: on the same sheet of music.

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Speaker 4: Incredible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're going to google people men like he googled

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Speaker 3: Martin Selner, And the first thing that comes up is

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Speaker 3: that he emailed Brenton Tarrant unless I guess that's not

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Speaker 3: an issue. Yeah right, judging by the general company he kept,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's an issue because he's joining like

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Speaker 3: like a Spanish Vox party of their after day there

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Speaker 3: at AfD, the German fire right party. Racist from all

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Speaker 3: over Europe.

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Speaker 4: We also saw the sort of racist in America who

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Speaker 4: I would describe as like fancy racists, the race science guys.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: Oh, they're kind of like the Bret people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is it those guys?

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Speaker 4: Or is it the kind of newer gen like tech

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Speaker 4: fascist people. So there's overlap between them. No, it's like

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Speaker 4: the VDA kind of tendency. Yeah, no, should we should

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Speaker 4: we explain with the vdair Yeah, a little bit, go ahead,

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Speaker 4: may yeah take it.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, I was just gonna say, at some point we're

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Speaker 4: gonna have molly On. I am a I am what

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Speaker 4: you would call a I guess technically a professional Nazi

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Speaker 4: identifier or whatever, but I'm like a low level one,

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Speaker 4: and everyone else in this network is a very high

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Speaker 4: level one. So we'll probably have molly On at some

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Speaker 4: point to like actually really go into vdair and like

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Speaker 4: that kind of shit.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's broadly speaking, it's Peter Brimolo's anti immigration website.

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Speaker 3: We're not talking about anti immigration terms and discussions about

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Speaker 3: what visa is we should give right, we're talking about

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Speaker 3: like white nationalism.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, these are like Nazi Nazis. These are people that, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, like I don't think the US has ever

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Speaker 4: really had what in Europe is called like the Courton Senataire,

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Speaker 4: which is supposed to separate out like the mainstream right

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Speaker 4: wing parties from like the Nazis, Like we've never had that.

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Speaker 4: So Vidare has been kind of more in anti immigration circles.

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Speaker 4: But it's also like those are people that you know,

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Speaker 4: even you're kind of like really really far right, like

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Speaker 4: people on the radio or politicians don't associate with because

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Speaker 4: they are fairly open Nazis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was some stuff that trace back to Vida

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Speaker 3: in Agenda forty seven. I remember thinking like this ain't good. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Vida just for people who like have lived a blessed

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Speaker 3: life and don't know refers to Virginia Dare, who is

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Speaker 3: I believe the first white child or the first child,

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Speaker 3: first girl maybe exploitafore. But I think as the first

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Speaker 3: white child born in the United States as settlers, one

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Speaker 3: of the onth of Roanoke people, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Which is I don't know, likee, maybe you motherfuckers could

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Speaker 4: have made like the Rono people and disappeared, but yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that would be nice. Unfortunately, Mia, No, Unfortunately they didn't

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Speaker 4: and they didn't, unfortunately assimilate into indigenous cultures the way

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Speaker 4: that the Rono people almost certainly did. Yes, instead, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: half a millennial long campaign of terror and bloodshed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting to see Bevino. I guess, like aligning

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Speaker 3: with these European anti migration discussion is different. It's not

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Speaker 3: really dealing so much in undocumented people. It's dealing with

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Speaker 3: people under various legal statuses. I'm not saying there aren't

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Speaker 3: undocumented people in Europe. There are, but the discussion there

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Speaker 3: has moved past that in a toxic way, in a

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Speaker 3: way that it's like, we need to remove these people

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Speaker 3: even though they do have like legal documentation that allows

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Speaker 3: them to be here. If the state says you're cooler,

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Speaker 3: you're not cool, Like that's not my concern. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: it's still alarming to see the bigotry move past even that, right,

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Speaker 3: like without the pretense of enforcing the law. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: just simply being about removing people who we don't think

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Speaker 3: we want to live next to because they're not white.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 4: One of the groups that you talked about there, like

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Speaker 4: the AfD in Germany, like this has been happening for

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Speaker 4: like a long time, but one of their like slogans

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Speaker 4: or is remove kabab. Yeah right, and that's just literally

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Speaker 4: like remove all Turkish people from the country. Yeah, And

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Speaker 4: the AfD wants to do this. There are documents that

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Speaker 4: have leaked from them that are them planning at conferences

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Speaker 4: to Okay, this is how we're going to remove the

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Speaker 4: not white people, just how we're going to remove the

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Speaker 4: Jewish people. This is not even like the pretense of

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Speaker 4: anything else do with the law. This is just like

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Speaker 4: we are the original Nazis. We want to do ethnic

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Speaker 4: cleansing against not white people. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Most of the people at the conference are peddling great

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Speaker 3: replacement shit, right and they yea, they genuinely believe that

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Speaker 3: is something that exists and that they can reverse it.

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Speaker 3: At the conference, Beveno gave an interview. I found it

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Speaker 3: on a website called bras Info ther eiz H. It's

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Speaker 3: a Breton and French language website. It's also published I

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Speaker 3: saw on a couple of other substacks, so I wonder

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Speaker 3: if it was a pool interview that he gave that

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Speaker 3: very people translated it. I should note that I translated

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Speaker 3: it from French. I don't think Bavino speaks French, so

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Speaker 3: I'm imagining they translated it from English to French. And

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Speaker 3: there is an editor's note that says the editor.

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Speaker 5: Was an AI.

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Speaker 3: Oh great, So any of the quotations here, we can't

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Speaker 3: attribute them directly, right, Like, yeah, we can't assume that

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Speaker 3: those are the words he said in English because it's

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Speaker 3: been through three layers of bullshit. So I understand that

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Speaker 3: going in. Nonetheless, I think it's a very interesting insight

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Speaker 3: into how Greg Bavino sees the world. And what's interesting

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Speaker 3: about that is, like Greg Leavina was very popular in

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Speaker 3: border patrol. He was, by the standards of the patrol,

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Speaker 3: a good border patrol agent, right, He was liked, and

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Speaker 3: I don't think he developed these opinions in a few

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Speaker 3: months since he retired. No, And like a lot of

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Speaker 3: the way he talks is not dissimilar to the way

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Speaker 3: Border patrol agents talk among themselves, right, I think that, Like,

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Speaker 3: what is interesting about this is not like Greg Bavino

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Speaker 3: is essentially sharing a platform and agreeing with Nazis. It

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Speaker 3: is after twenty five, twenty six years, in more than

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Speaker 3: ninety thirty years in the Border patrol, this is what

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Speaker 3: the Border Patrol formed him into. Yeah, Because the point

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Speaker 3: I want to make here is this shit is not

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Speaker 3: something we can easily reform. This is not something we

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Speaker 3: can train if this country gets through this and in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight, yes we have another election. God, we

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Speaker 3: can't fucking let this keep happening. Right, The tool that

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Speaker 3: Baveno was deploying in Minneapolis, in Chicago, in Charlotte and

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Speaker 3: all these other cities in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 4: Right, yeah, Memphis, New Orleans Lake, Yeah, like all over

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Speaker 4: the country. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a tool that Democrats built as well

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Speaker 3: as Republicans. And the place he's at, he got to

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Speaker 3: with eight years working under Barack Obama, with four years

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Speaker 3: working under under Joe Biden. Like, we need to understand

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Speaker 3: what we are diverting a fire hose of money towards

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Speaker 3: with the Border patrol, Right, And I guess we can

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Speaker 3: just start with where Greg Bavino started, which was comparing

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Speaker 3: himself to Nazi general Erwin Rommel. Great, yeah, right at

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Speaker 3: the gate. He also compared hisself to Pat and T. Lawrence,

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Speaker 3: you know, like historically. It makes you wonder. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think he probably has some kind of clean Vermarke thing

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Speaker 3: going on in his head where they're just soldiers and

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Speaker 3: he can respect of them for their tactical prowess, you know,

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Speaker 3: like mm hmm, he says, quote, they grasped the overall

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Speaker 3: strategy where others in government or in the political class

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Speaker 3: did not see it or refuse to see it. Strategic

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Speaker 3: expertise combined with field command, especially in chaotic exposed events,

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Speaker 3: is very rare. I also listened to a couple of

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Speaker 3: podcasts that Beveno did with a former Border Patrol agent

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Speaker 3: who used to work in San Diego sector, and you

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Speaker 3: hit it a lot right to talk about battle, talk

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Speaker 3: about soldiers, but Vino sees himself as like a general

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Speaker 3: on border patrol, as his soldiers fighting in a war. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's not what they do. Oh, clearly they see it

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Speaker 3: as that. I understand why, because like they've they've got

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Speaker 3: around the country generating so much ill will that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: everywhere they go, people fucking hate them.

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Speaker 4: Your actual job, and the only thing we saw in

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Speaker 4: Chicago is dragging screaming babies out of their fucking homes

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Speaker 4: and putting them in camps. Yeah, I think this is

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Speaker 4: This is going back to the thing you're talking about

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Speaker 4: earlier about this not being something that's reformable. Is that, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that task is what Border patrol was built for. That's

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Speaker 4: what it was doing under all of these administrations, just

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Speaker 4: fucking dragging people screaming from their homes in the dark

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Speaker 4: of the night. And like, the only way you can

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Speaker 4: get people to do that is by creating a crucible

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Speaker 4: that creates Nazis.

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Speaker 3: You can't have compassion for the people whose families you're

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Speaker 3: tearing apart, right, Like, Yeah, people should read gent Budd's

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Speaker 3: book if they want to know what going through Borderperl

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Speaker 3: Academy is. Like this give a trigger warning that gen

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Speaker 3: was sexually assaulted and and writes about that Border patrol

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Speaker 3: has a very high rate of sexual assault. Right, Border

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Speaker 3: patrol is ninety five percent male. I have seen people

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Speaker 3: in Border Patrol who do have compassion, and then I

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Speaker 3: have not seen them anymore. Like it drives those people away.

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Speaker 3: They have a high drop out rate, And I think

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Speaker 3: there are people who genuinely believe that what they will

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Speaker 3: do is keep their community safe and rescue people who

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Speaker 3: get stuck crossing the border in the desert, adjudicate them

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Speaker 3: a fair process, deliver them to a fair process, and

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Speaker 3: they will do the best they can. I don't see

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Speaker 3: those people remain in the patrol for very long, right,

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Speaker 3: Like I interact with obviously, Like the stance to this

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Speaker 3: podcast is that you should remain silent and not talk

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Speaker 3: to cops, But like I interact with more patrol agents

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Speaker 3: more often than most people do. Right, that it's the

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Speaker 3: nature of my job and the place I live and

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Speaker 3: the places I go. And like I think these days

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Speaker 3: are recruiting, they're doing They're getting a lot of people

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Speaker 3: who are coming into starting like this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but I don't think that's that's always been the case.

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Speaker 4: Like I understand that there are people also in communities

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Speaker 4: along the border, whether it's very little economic opportunity and

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Speaker 4: then this is the only chance they have. But I

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Speaker 4: see those people get spat out.

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Speaker 3: Like you said, Meir, if you are going to train

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Speaker 3: people to tear families apart, then you have to train

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Speaker 3: them to hate, and I think that is what we

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Speaker 3: see in this right, Like it's really interesting. But Vino

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Speaker 3: tells his own story a little bit, and he tells

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Speaker 3: this his own story on this podcast I listen to

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Speaker 3: as well. He starts with operation don't let Them Ride.

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Speaker 3: Familiar with operation don't let him Ride? No, Okay, So

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Speaker 3: you have to go all the way back to twenty ten.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, in Las Vegas, Nevada.

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Speaker 4: Little tiny baby Mia, Yeah, yeah, thirteen year old Miya.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, fuck me.

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Speaker 4: I feel old.

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Speaker 3: I was in grad school and Greg Bavino, I think

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Speaker 3: he's Bliz the Blithe station at that time. And they

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Speaker 3: do this operation at a bus station in Nevada. It

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Speaker 3: lasts for sixty minutes, it gets called off. The Nevada

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Speaker 3: Senator is pissed off about it. Their goal, they said,

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Speaker 3: was to apprehend traffickers and to rescue people who have

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Speaker 3: been trafficked or smuggled. Right in a community meeting which

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Speaker 3: was convened because the whole Latino community in Las Vegas

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Speaker 3: was like the fuck right. This internal enforcement was not

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Speaker 3: a common thing at the time. Paul Beeson, who was

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Speaker 3: chief Agent of the UMA sector at the time, said,

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Speaker 3: quote in that short period of time, we did not

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Speaker 3: apprehend anybody we felt was actively engaged in alien smuggling.

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Speaker 3: We did not encounter any human trafficking victims. So to me,

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Speaker 3: didn't sound like a like a wind Yeah wait.

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Speaker 4: So so like they were just rounding people up at

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Speaker 4: bus stops. Correct, they went to a bus like a

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Speaker 4: bus stepo station. Yeah, yeah, like one of the big

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Speaker 4: bus yeah yeah, and they just rounded people up and.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So his interview with this former border patrol agent,

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Speaker 3: he said that they apprehended more than one alien per

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Speaker 3: minute of the operation.

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Speaker 8: That was called Operation Don't Let Him Ride. And that

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Speaker 8: operation was set for about three days. It lasted sixty minutes.

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Speaker 8: But the interesting thing is we called more aliens than

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Speaker 8: there were minutes in the operation. It was a very

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Speaker 8: successful operations, very successful. Yes, Sir Harry Reid called Hussein

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Speaker 8: Obama and had that shut down immediately. But we never

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Speaker 8: got that. We never forgot the vast amount of criminals

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Speaker 8: that we apprehended in twenty ten on those bus checks

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Speaker 8: in Las Vegas, and the pervasive problem even then that

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Speaker 8: we solve a lot of that problem came in under

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Speaker 8: Barack Hussein Obama as well as Bill Ry Clinton.

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Speaker 3: I want to know the newspapers at the time reported

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Speaker 3: a number that was more than two dozen. Technically, let's

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Speaker 3: say the operation lasted sixty minutes, that is more than

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Speaker 3: two dozen. It would be unusual to report a number

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Speaker 3: of sixty by saying more than two dozen. Right. What

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Speaker 3: is more interesting to me is that this operation was

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Speaker 3: supposed to find people who had been trafficked to people

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Speaker 3: who were trafficking, and it failed. Greg Baveno seems to

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Speaker 3: have seen it as a success because it just found people, right,

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Speaker 3: people who were undocumented, people who were otherwise in infraction

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Speaker 3: of immigration laws, but who were not involved in trafficking.

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Speaker 3: Because for him, it seems like the goal was slightly different,

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Speaker 3: and therefore the criteria for success are slightly different, right,

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Speaker 3: And this kind of fits into this narrative of him,

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Speaker 3: so like I can see what he it is, especially

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Speaker 3: in the context of him talking to the Remigration conference.

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Speaker 3: For him, it's a win, but for the goals of

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Speaker 3: the border patrol at that time, it's not. So he

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Speaker 3: cites this at the beginning of his journeyed where he

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Speaker 3: is right as a guy they went to for massive

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Speaker 3: surges of border patrol agents into cities tearing families apart.

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Speaker 3: And I think if we see it the way he

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Speaker 3: sees it, then we can see why he sees it

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Speaker 3: as a success. But Vino, in his early career had

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Speaker 3: worked a lot in the Alcentro sector, right, and ev

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Speaker 3: actually became chief patrol agent the l Centro sector. He

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Speaker 3: was in Bortac for a while. I've read a Defense

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Speaker 3: University paper that interviewed him. He was in Honduras with

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Speaker 3: Bortac training border patrol there.

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Speaker 4: Oh Jesus Christ. Yeah, I mean everyone should read Empire

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Speaker 4: of Borders. Everyone should read Border Patrol Nation.

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Speaker 3: But like the DHS has done this for years, right,

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Speaker 3: funded armed and equipped and trained border patrol units all

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Speaker 3: over the Americas, because that is how America externalizes its border.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, in a very similar way to the way Europe

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Speaker 4: does it with Frantics. And you know, like it deals

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Speaker 4: like up with Godarthian and the successive governments and Libya

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Speaker 4: and stuff like that. Yes, and the people they're training there,

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Speaker 4: it's like school the Americas share just like actual monsters.

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, I mean the Sally Haydensburg My Third Time

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Speaker 3: We Drowned is one of the more heartbreaking books. It's

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Speaker 3: available for a human to read. But like, if you

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Speaker 3: want to know about the fucked up stuff Europe's doing

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Speaker 3: in Libya, it's a good book. Yeah, but yes, you're

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Speaker 3: it moves the violence away from the metropolitan, right, it

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Speaker 3: moves it further. I've seen this from my own eyes, right,

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Speaker 3: I've seen what happens in Panama, not necessarily but the

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Speaker 3: actions of any border patrols there, but just by forcing

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Speaker 3: people to take that route. Like, I've seen how the

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Speaker 3: externalization of our borders kills people. And I have seen

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Speaker 3: how the Biden administration funded deportations of people who are

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Speaker 3: I can't find any criminal record for. And I have

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Speaker 3: seen literally babies taken out of people's hands. Yea, and

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Speaker 3: they were deporting young men at that point. But I look,

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Speaker 3: I've literally watched families torn apart right there, just after

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Speaker 3: crossing the Darrying Gap. And it's heartbreaking.

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Speaker 4: Yea.

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Speaker 3: Talking of heartbreaking, we haven't done ad pivot.

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Speaker 4: Oh boy, hopefully these product services will fix your heartbreak.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh god, Yeah, here's an advert for whiskey. Okay,

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Speaker 3: we are back. So one of the things Bavino did

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Speaker 3: a light in this into you is he sort to

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Speaker 3: kind of distinguish himself from what he calls the status

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Speaker 3: quo bureaucrats. He's not wrong that, like one of the

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Speaker 3: roles of a chief in a sector is to speak

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Speaker 3: to the press. Right. He seems to be very upset

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Speaker 3: that Roddy Scott and Tom Homan didn't speak to the

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Speaker 3: press when they art to these big operations. He says,

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Speaker 3: quote CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott and borders are Tom Hoeman

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Speaker 3: not only had no experience was full enforcement of migration laws,

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Speaker 3: but refused to speak public ly during operations. Their reluctance

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Speaker 3: triggered the unique situation I mentioned above, and neither sought

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Speaker 3: nor asked to become the public faith of the operation.

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Speaker 3: But for this type of operation there can only be one.

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Speaker 3: The responsibility fell to me. When you listen to this

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Speaker 3: interviews he did when he was in the patrol, he

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Speaker 3: wasn't as critical of his leadership as he is now. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: probably for very obvious reasons. But like the let down

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Speaker 3: by leadership thing is is a thing. We've seen this

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Speaker 3: on the right so many times, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the classic backstem, this employed by one Adolf Hitler.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, like and in many cases thereafter,

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Speaker 3: And he kind of seeks in this too to differentiate

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Speaker 3: field agents from like what I guess what he called

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Speaker 3: status quote bureaucrats. Right, and he is genuinely very popular

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Speaker 3: among field agents, Like and he did like grow through

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Speaker 3: the border Patrol, right, Like he's not a guy who

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Speaker 3: came from somewhere else, Like he has a thirty year career.

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Speaker 3: He's done like mountain interdiction stuff down in the Hookumber wilderness.

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Speaker 3: Like he's he's definitely like had his boots on the ground.

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Speaker 3: I think they like that, And I think for him

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Speaker 3: that gives him like like the he feels like he

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Speaker 3: speaks for the border Patrol and that like these people

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Speaker 3: who are like bureaucrats are what is constraining him and

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Speaker 3: his guys from doing what they want to do. And

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Speaker 3: like it's really interesting to see determines how he describes

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Speaker 3: what they want to do.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 3: He called the withdrawal from Minneapolis a surrender. He called

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Speaker 3: protesters the opposition. In this podcast I listened to, he

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Speaker 3: calls protesters pro fascist, which is very given the company

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Speaker 3: he keeps his fucking ridiculous, Like the.

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Speaker 4: Other people at that conference can't be happy with that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's the thing right, where are the fascists down?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're not hiding it. Like it's very interesting

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Speaker 3: to see him like not willing to kind of surrender

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Speaker 3: that term, you know what I mean, like to not

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Speaker 3: quite say it at the same time as like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: there are other people like conference you are like, no,

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Speaker 3: where the fact, what are you talking about? They're not

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Speaker 3: profascially say haters Like he's still like one step removed

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Speaker 3: from joining his buddies there. Another thing I found interesting

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Speaker 3: was he says what the patrol is often referred to

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Speaker 3: as quote the Federal Law Enforcement Marine Corps.

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Speaker 4: What does anyone say that I've not heard them say that? Oh,

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Speaker 4: I what, I've never heard that.

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Speaker 3: It's a very strange. I'm guessing what he's referring to

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Speaker 3: is like the Marine Corps has these expeditionary units which

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Speaker 3: can deploy very quickly to conflict. Though it's like we

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Speaker 3: sort in I ran right, like yeah, and I'm guessing

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Speaker 3: that's what he means, Like they're the hit squad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're they're the like, oh my god, we found

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Speaker 4: like four children sleeping in a bedroom. We have to go,

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Speaker 4: we have to go, sender like tactical squad. After them. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: there are there are first line of defense against against

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Speaker 4: tiny babies. Yeah, and against the Americans exercising their First

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Speaker 4: Amendment rights.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: When people were in the street in Portland, it was

436
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 3: border patrol. They said, yep, it was poor attack.

437
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, right, they do have something of a history

438
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 4: of being the federal government's hit squad.

439
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 7: Yeah.

440
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 3: When they want to stamp on Americans, they do send

441
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: the border patrol. Interestingly, he went on to cite the

442
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: old miss Riot. Even know the old miss Riot.

443
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 4: It sounds vaguely familiar, but I'm not sure.

444
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you can surmise what's going to happen, right,

445
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 3: it's a university in the South.

446
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

447
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: What happens is that James Meredith, a black man, had

448
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: attempted to register at the school several times. He had

449
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 3: been prevented by racists, including the governor, and at one

450
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 3: point JFK sent Border patrol agents along with federal I

451
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 3: think they were cross sworn as marshalls, maybe to accompany

452
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 3: him to register. They ended up surrounded in the lyceum.

453
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 3: Twenty eight federal agents were shot.

454
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 4: Jesus. Yeah, this is like they had a fucking fight

455
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 4: about it. Like two of the people surrounded the lyceum

456
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 4: were killed. You know, I'm not sure I've ever in

457
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 4: my entire life seen a government deployment and thought you

458
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: should have sent the national Guard. But like, yeah, I

459
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 4: guess you should have sent the national Guard Jesus. Yeah,

460
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 4: but really, I guess love shooting beds to opposed integration.

461
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, like in this case, they sent the regular ass

462
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 3: army to come get him out.

463
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

464
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 3: I think this was the era when they felt like

465
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: national guides in the South were not entirely trustworthy.

466
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

467
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you'd have to do a Trump style like

468
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 4: we're sending the fucking like California.

469
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 3: National Mississippi or whatever.

470
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

471
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, they normally send like one of those QRSD eighty

472
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 3: second Airborn or something like that.

473
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 6: Yeah.

474
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 4: Wow, I can't believe I'm in a position where I

475
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 4: support the deployment of US troops against America.

476
00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's it's a wild scenario.

477
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 4: I guess it's like because they're trying to do a lynching.

478
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, like in that case, yeah, maybe stop the lynching.

479
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 3: But it's a really interesting choice because he talked He's

480
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 3: talking about how border patrolls, you know, like they had

481
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 3: this long history of doing this, and again he's not wrong.

482
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 3: And I guess maybe the on miss thing plays a

483
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: part in their mythos because they were fighting against the racists.

484
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: I can see why they would want to hold on

485
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 3: to that. It's interesting to see him doing that at

486
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 3: the racist conference.

487
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, oh, no, no, no, we are a different

488
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 4: kind of racist. We are California. We're racist. We are

489
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 4: we are not like the primitive southern racist. We have

490
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 4: advanceder level of racism too.

491
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like, and he's very popular amongst them, Like, we're

492
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 3: a different kind of racist racists, right, Like the vida tendency.

493
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 3: Is that like quote unquote scientific racists.

494
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. And but by the way, I want to clarify

495
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 4: before I get screamed that the thing I just said

496
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 4: was like his perspective, not mine. Jesus fuck these people,

497
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 4: yeah yeah, all of them.

498
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, Please don't clip near out of context. So, like,

499
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 3: he then goes on after he's expended this to explain

500
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 3: like his history of migration. He says that around in

501
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: the year two thousand, quote unquote, the floodgates open. His

502
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: basic thesis is summed up in his statement from twenty

503
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 3: to twenty twenty six. Are borders were nothing but speed bumps.

504
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: Illegals and smugglers need it. Once they cross the border,

505
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 3: they're virtually saved from any consequences.

506
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 4: A couple of.

507
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 3: Things there that obviously includes Trump's first term and part

508
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: of the second term. Amnasia about Trump having a first

509
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: term seeds to be quite a common issue on the right.

510
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 4: It's really astonishing and the left too. I don't know.

511
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 4: I'm either more and more certain certain certain people who

512
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 4: will go unmentioned, who were working for Blackwater under the

513
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 4: first Trump administration.

514
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very interesting to see this narrative, but again

515
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: not an uncommon one. Ye, right, Like he talks about

516
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 3: how he wrote a paper called Illegal Aliens Detraction Natural Resources.

517
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: So he has two master's degrees. One is from the

518
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: National Defense University, and I'm not sure if that's his

519
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: second master's thesis, which it would be. I'd be interested

520
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 3: to read it, but I haven't been able to find it,

521
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: and I'm not sure NDU makes masters stuff public, and

522
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: I think generally how it works is you have to

523
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 3: opt to make it public. Like I'm interested to know,

524
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: is this kind of eco nativism? Is it like carrying

525
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: capacity shit?

526
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 4: Like what, Yeah. It kind of the other thing it

527
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 4: kind of reminds me is like you get like you

528
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 4: get this from like Scandinavian racists where they're like they

529
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 4: have this line about the welfare state, where like the

530
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 4: welfare stays of fire and you can only have so

531
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 4: many people huddled around the fire.

532
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like, oh, yeah, well, god, we see

533
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: this lean like we saw a lot from Mike Lee

534
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 3: right when he was attempting another pathetic excuse for selling

535
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 3: off our public lands. Like Lee was saying, how like

536
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: so much of our willness areas is destroyed by migrants,

537
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 3: so we have to destroy them and sell them to

538
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: protect them. The logic of Mike Lee is unknowable. But

539
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 3: I'm to read that if anyone, if he has anyone

540
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 3: is like a library Ninjia, get in touch. I'd love

541
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: to uh, I'd love to find that out. He spends

542
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: a great deal of time explaining his one hundred million number,

543
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 3: and he refers to these people as illegal aliens right

544
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 3: that he contrasts this with the number of twenty million.

545
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: He says that comes from Pew research, and he says

546
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 3: that it hasn't changed since the nineteen seventies. That is

547
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 3: not a statistic which is played out in Pew's published documents.

548
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 3: I'm looking here at a twenty twenty three paper from Pew.

549
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: The number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States nineteen

550
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 3: ninety three point five million, twenty eight point six twenty

551
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: fifteen to eleven point zero thanks Obama, and up to

552
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: fourteen million in twenty twenty three. He claims to spend

553
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: twenty since the nineteen seventies. Obviously he's not giving a

554
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 3: source here, but he claims Pugh has said that, and

555
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: that's not what I've found from Pew. He sort of

556
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: arrives at his towndred million dollar number. First, he said

557
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: he was looking for some stuff from investment bank dere Stearns.

558
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: And what he was looking at, why, yeah, it's very strange.

559
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: He then goes on to give the only hard statistics

560
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: he gives, and if he's talking about Charlotte, North Carolina here,

561
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: when they were doing Operation Charlotte's Web estimates indicated that

562
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: thirty percent or more of commuters who are no longer traveling,

563
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 3: This means at least thirty percent of them were most

564
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: likely illegal immigrants. This is based on traffic delays he's

565
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: getting the amount of time people spending traffic jet like

566
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: he's going on Google Maps. This is a massive logical leap.

567
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 3: He then says that's about a quarter of Charlotte commuters

568
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: thirty percent, not a quarter. And this figure, you guessed,

569
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 3: it fits perfectly with the total of one hundred million

570
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: out of four hundred and twenty million people in the

571
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 3: United States, an estimate that one hundred million are illegal immigrants,

572
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: same as the observation for children absent from Charlotte schools,

573
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 3: more than thirty percent of students were missing. These were,

574
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: of course, illegal children or children of illegal immigrants. The

575
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: category of illegal children. Fascinating choice of words. Oh god,

576
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 3: I'm guessing he's talking about like undocumented kids or kids

577
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: whose parents are ind documents his separate categories there. But like,

578
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 3: there are many reasons. I don't think we have to

579
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 3: explain this to listeners. Why why some people might not

580
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: have wanted to be out and about or at school

581
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 3: when board patrol and dragging people out of cars and

582
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: smashing their windows.

583
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is an extremely common thing, which is like.

584
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like not wanting to die.

585
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 4: I want to point this out too, Like they shot

586
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 4: like American citizens. Not not that it's like worse to

587
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 4: shoot an American citizen than a non citizen, but like,

588
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 4: but they did that. Everyone everyone knew that they had

589
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 4: done that. Yeah, Like they.

590
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: Did that in Chicago. Yeah, like, yeah, they did in Chicago.

591
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: They were going to go do it again in Minneapolis.

592
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: Like yeah, obviously they shot protesters.

593
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 4: They also just shot random people like who they were like,

594
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: oh you're non white, fuck you right, Like it's like

595
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 4: that kind of shit.

596
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: Ye, people who got in most of the instance we've

597
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 3: seen that what they have said is a person tried

598
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: to ram them with their car, and most of the

599
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: times we have seen video evidence, it certainly doesn't look

600
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: like that to me.

601
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 5: No.

602
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this idea of thirty percent of students, are

603
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: there foreign documented people, that's ludicrous. They were in Charlotte,

604
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: like middle to late November. There's a time when Americans

605
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: often travel, don't go to school. Right, They have this

606
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving thing here and people like to enjoy time with

607
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 3: their families. He then goes on to talk about the

608
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: differences between US and Europe. There's a phrase here that

609
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 3: I want to read again. I want you to understand

610
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 3: that this is translated twice uncontrolled immigration to the United

611
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 3: States now post is the greatest threat to our culture

612
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: in our very existence. This goes for you in Europe too,

613
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 3: Even when we managed to get past these cumbers in

614
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: bureaucrats and politicians, the grassroots will take care of it

615
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: for us. The precise tactics for removing those who need

616
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: to be removed may take different forms in Europe and

617
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: the United States. The grassroots will take care of it

618
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 3: for us is between m dashes. I don't know if

619
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: he means the grassroots will vote them out. Otherwise that

620
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: seems like a program, right.

621
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, that's that's not that's not good. Yeah, yeah,

622
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 4: that just seems like an ethnic Clenson campaign conducted by people.

623
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 3: I want to be like, like, but because that's a

624
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: really scary concept, right like yeah, but also.

625
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an AI translation that was then translated by you.

626
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't know how your French is these.

627
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: Days, Like French is fine, but like, uh, yeah, I

628
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: forget who said all translation is an act of violence?

629
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 4: But yeah, like humans doing translation is an act of violence.

630
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 4: AI doing translations is like the fucking future terminator. Yeah,

631
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 4: the machines have killed everyone.

632
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 3: Like yeah, like a lot of really is lost in translation.

633
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: In between the M dashes, the French is labas populai sanchatier.

634
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, come at me, French speakers. Let me know

635
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 3: if you think there's a better translation for that. He

636
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: then goes on to try and like not blame Trump,

637
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: which is interesting, said, I don't believe Trump has abandoned

638
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: his campaign promise. I believe that his advisors do not

639
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: bring him back to reality on the ground, And then

640
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 3: at skips little here. If I had to do it again,

641
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: I would have briefed Trump directly several times, rather than

642
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 3: relying on this inner circle who might have interests elsewhere.

643
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: Trump is the best president I've ever worked for. I

644
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 3: believe he will return to that campaign promise soon. Again,

645
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: it's kind of a fatty thing, right, Like, it wasn't

646
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: the leader. It wasn't the dear leader. It was some

647
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: people who failed to reflect the dear leader's thought. Yeah,

648
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: it's very interesting to see him speaking so clearly this way,

649
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: Like there's two ways he could be going with this.

650
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: He could be angling for his job back, to be clear, right,

651
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: The reason we don't have Norman Baviino anymore, in my opinion,

652
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: is that after Ice and then CBP both murdered US

653
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 3: citizens and the plain light of day on camera and

654
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: then took to the television to lie about those US

655
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 3: citizens in the hours after they murdered them. They became

656
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 3: too toxic for even the Trump administration to touch.

657
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were staggeringly unpopular. Everyone fucking hated them.

658
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 5: Yeah.

659
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, you literally lost like the old guys with the

660
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: NRA hats at the gun range who I sometimes talked to, like.

661
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, fucking again, I Kiki coming back to, Like they

662
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 4: lost fucking Kurt Warner, who like is like a quarterback

663
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 4: who has never once talked about politics ever and is

664
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 4: like like made like a documentary that was like a

665
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: bunch about like his like faith journey, right, and they

666
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 4: like when when when Kurt Warner is being like, hey,

667
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 4: what the fuck? Yeah, you've lost your You're losing the

668
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: conservative football guys.

669
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you shoot a white man on his

670
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 3: knees in the street in the back, Yeah, while you're

671
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 3: beating them up. Yeah, that's how you lose Americans.

672
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how you lose barstool Like it's yeah, hideous.

673
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, he kind of has two choices, right, Like he

674
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: can and you can go into the consulting world. He

675
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 3: can go into the grifting world right and just become

676
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: like a podcast grifter, Welcome to the club. Or he

677
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 3: can go into politics. And I wonder which, like he's

678
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 3: kind of left two of those pathways open, right, like

679
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 3: he can kind of yeah, podcast grifter or politics.

680
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 4: Well, and you can do both now too. I guess

681
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 4: that's true. Yeah, yeah, ce Ce the head of the

682
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 4: FBI too much.

683
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: It was too much for Dan Bongino. He retired and

684
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: returned to the.

685
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 4: True I guess, I guess, I guess. I guess it's

686
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 4: like our noble like Health and Human Services secretary the

687
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 4: latest shit eating Kennedy or whatever, like you can still

688
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 4: do that shit.

689
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, the serial podcast guests, I just want to

690
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 3: come back to, like we need to reflect on this now, right,

691
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: like we're doing primaries for the midterms right now. The

692
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 3: Democrats have doubled down on same old shit almost everywhere

693
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: across the country. We have seen some better candidates, right,

694
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: but I understand that the pathway to a beautiful life

695
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: is not through the Democratic Party. But if they are

696
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 3: incapable of seeing that this isn't something that we can reform,

697
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: if they do what Biden did in twenty twenty, which

698
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 3: is like, oh, they just need more money. Yeah, this

699
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 3: ratchet will continue to only move in one direction, which

700
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: is towards a brutalization of more people.

701
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, just on a very basic level, like, having a

702
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 4: massive institutional apparatus that produces Nazis and gives them the

703
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 4: authority to do the thing that the Nazis want to

704
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 4: do is not a way that any kind of democracy

705
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 4: can survive. Yeah, and that's what we've seen.

706
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: To paraphrase, we have created an entity which you can

707
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: exempt from the law in order to enforce it. Yeah,

708
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: we can't keep up with that. And like, now is

709
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 3: a moment I guess that demands bravery and from the Democrats,

710
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: I've seen cowardice. Yeah, and if they continue to be

711
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: cowards right now, we're going to go so far down

712
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: this path there's no coming back. Yeah. And I don't

713
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: fucking know, but I think that's something we really need

714
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: to reflect on.

715
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 4: Yeah. We have twenty thousand Bovenos, Yeah, who we've given

716
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 4: guns and training and authority to.

717
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, and who we've allowed to kill people in our

718
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 3: streets and not face accountability.

719
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 4: Right.

720
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I am not a County attorney appreciated generally,

721
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 3: but like it makes me bik to see that Hennepin

722
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 3: County attorney go after the ice agent who shot someone

723
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 3: through their front door and they lied about it. Like

724
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 3: if the liberal democracy can't do any of that kind

725
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 3: of stuff, then it's worthless. It doesn't mean anything anymore.

726
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it will and it won't be a democracy afterwards. Right, Yeah,

727
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: diet made its own bed to die on. There's examples

728
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: of this fucking everywhere, right, but like, yeah, the Biden

729
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 4: administration was tragedy is farce of like Ende promoting Pinochet. Yeah,

730
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 4: that's the thing. That's the thing that he did. He

731
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 4: promoted Pinochet, right, Yeah, Like if you don't get rid

732
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: of the people who want to fucking kill you and

733
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 4: you instead give them more power, they're going to fucking

734
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: kill you.

735
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like what Biden tried to They tried pretty

736
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 3: hard to retire Bavino because he would talk a lot

737
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 3: about the situation at the border and Biden administration, but

738
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: they didn't.

739
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 4: No, they didn't. And then also like they made more

740
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 4: of them.

741
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also they threw as much money, like the

742
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: money that your kid doesn't get for free meals. It's

743
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: because Border Patrol has black Hawks. Like yeah, yeah, that

744
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 3: was a heartwarming and inspiring episode of It could Happen

745
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: Here podcast about things falling apart.

746
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, but okay, we beat the Nazis once, we can

747
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 4: do it again.

748
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Minneapolis beat these people. That's the other thing, right,

749
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: Like they won. Yeah, they came out and they stood

750
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 3: together as a community. They didn't focus on trivial bullshit

751
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 3: that divides them. They looked out for one another. The

752
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: Border Patrol thought they were in a battle, and if

753
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: they were in a battle, then they did lose it.

754
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 3: They surrendered, right.

755
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like that's that's also not to say that

756
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 4: they aren't still like horrifying shit happening there, right, Like

757
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: there's still braids going on.

758
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 3: You're absolutely correct, Yeah, and that like people aren't dealing

759
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: with the many other ills of capitalism in the distance

760
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 3: that the state it is today. But like, yeah, they

761
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: were not able to make those people cower in fear. Yeah,

762
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 3: and that has shown the rest of the country how

763
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: brave we can be together. And I just don't think

764
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 3: we should forget that.

765
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, isis alm Shinrikiu and Christian Signers are at first glance,

766
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 9: these movements appear to have almost nothing in common. One

767
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 9: is transnational but territorially weakened Tarror Network most active into

768
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 9: twenty and twenty tens. One was a fringe Japanese doomsday

769
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 9: cult from the nineties, and one remains a powerful political

770
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 9: movement embedded in the heart of the US, the world's

771
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 9: premier imperialist power. The ideologies may be irreconcilable, their enemies

772
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 9: may be different, and their methods even may vary from

773
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 9: gorilla warfare to political lobbying, and yet they have more

774
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 9: in common than meets the eye. Welcome toket happen here.

775
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 9: I'm Andrew's age or andrewsm on YouTube, and I'm joined

776
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 9: today by Garrison Davis. Hello, Welcome, Welcome. So my goal

777
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 9: is to try and understand these movements through the lens

778
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 9: of ideological total itself, which was a specific theoretical framework

779
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 9: developed by Robert J. Lifton to identify the outcome of

780
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 9: a successful thought reform process, characterized by Denis Jewish and

781
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 9: Tim Walforth in on the Edge as a quote mode

782
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 9: of absolute conviction, which embeds ideas so deeply in people

783
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 9: heads that they grow inoculated against doubt. Ideas cease to

784
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 9: be provisional theories about the world and instead become secret

785
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 9: convictions dependent on the word of how old authorities for

786
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 9: their validation rather than evidence quote. Lifton saw the potential

787
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 9: for the emergence of ideological totalism within everyone, but he

788
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 9: noted quo totalistic convictions are most likely to occur with

789
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 9: those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and

790
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 9: most ambitious or messianic in their claims, whether religious, political,

791
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 9: or scientific. The eight criteria that he identified for thought

792
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 9: reform were milieu control, which is the control of communication

793
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 9: and information within the environment. Mystical manipulation, which is the

794
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 9: orchestrating of spontaneous events to save the group's message. The

795
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 9: demand for purity, which divides the world into black and white,

796
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 9: good and evil categories. The cult of confession, which pushes

797
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 9: members to confess past sins, personal feelings to the group.

798
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 9: The secret science, which elevates the group's dogma to an

799
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 9: unquestionable truth, loading the language, which is using jargon or

800
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,479
Speaker 9: cliches to minimize critical thinking, doctrine over a person which

801
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 9: subordinates individual experiences and identity to the group's beliefs, and finally,

802
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 9: the dispensing of existence, declaring that only those in the

803
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 9: group have the right to exist. Now, not all of

804
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 9: these factors may be at play for each of these

805
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 9: specific movements that I would have mentioned, but we still

806
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 9: see the outcome of this ideological totalism in each of

807
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 9: these movements, to very extent, the systematic erosion of individual

808
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 9: autonomy in favor of an unassailable authority. Whether we're speaking

809
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 9: about ISIS or Armstriakio, or Christian Zionism within the evangelical movement,

810
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 9: or in any other case, we will see how movements

811
00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 9: replace individual identity with a collective prograum personae loaded language

812
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 9: and thought terminating cliches make dissent literally unthinkable where the

813
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 9: enemy other is manufactured, and where power is concentrated so

814
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 9: tightly that the leader or the dogma becomes the only

815
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 9: source of truth. So the foundation of ideological totalism is

816
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 9: the destruction of nuance. To build a cohesive US and them,

817
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 9: they must be clearly defined and definitionally polarized. First comes

818
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 9: the categorization, where the complexity of human identity is reduced

819
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 9: into a single non negotiable trait, be it religion or

820
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 9: nationality or ideology. And then comes to humanization, which is

821
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 9: stripping the other of human qualities, transforming them from a

822
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 9: person into a threat, impure, an infidel, and obstacle. And finally,

823
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 9: there's enclosure, which creates social or psychological walls that prevent

824
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,479
Speaker 9: the US from interacting with them. This ensures the only

825
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 9: information the group receives is that of the the others

826
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 9: perceived malice. In the context of groups like Isis, the

827
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 9: US versus Them engine is expressed both ideologically and through

828
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 9: physical violence. By committing acts of terror, the group forces

829
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 9: the rest of the world to recognize their boundary. There's

830
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 9: no cross contamination to be had with the infidel world,

831
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 9: no middle ground. You're either a part of their struggle

832
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 9: for a global caliphate or you're an enemy to be eradicated,

833
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 9: whether you consider yourself a Muslim or anything else. With armsheriki,

834
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 9: the cults us versus Them engine operated through isolation in

835
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 9: communes and the severigin of external ties. Them was defined

836
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 9: as the corrupted world or the spiritually dead, and the

837
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 9: group sought purity and enlightenment, so they targeted the individuals

838
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 9: existing social networks, family friends, mainstream society, labeling them as

839
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 9: sources of contamination by cutting off the member from the

840
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 9: outside world. The cult en showed that the only reality

841
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 9: that existed was the one provided by the leader. Were

842
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 9: the political religious Christian Zionists. The US versus Them engine

843
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 9: is built through a historical and eschatological narrative that sees

844
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 9: the entire secular world as enemies to the apocalyptic ambitions

845
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 9: of Christ's return. They are frequently warned to avoid worldly

846
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 9: influences temptations from the devil that might skew them from

847
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 9: the righteous path. The other in all these cases is

848
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 9: successfully stripped of their humanity. The destruction of the them

849
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 9: becomes a logical necessity for the survival of the US,

850
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 9: and the isolation ensures the group's total control over an

851
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 9: individual's interpretation of reality.

852
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 10: Interesting how all these various cultish elements build on or

853
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 10: use the techniques written about by Karl Schmidt the frind

854
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 10: enemy distinction, and how like creating groups like this, you know,

855
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 10: you have to choose like a border point, to choose

856
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 10: the point that determines what we are and what our

857
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 10: enemy is. And then in order to keep your group

858
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 10: active or like safety, that border has to be moved

859
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 10: has to always be like like pushing it can't actually

860
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 10: stay at the same point. And then you see that

861
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 10: movement with all these groups, right, they have this like

862
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 10: millenari neist like apocalyptic focus, but they're still like moving

863
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 10: towards this like larger enemy population.

864
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean you see it in like I mentioned,

865
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 9: Isis has erected this barrier that separates them even from

866
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 9: Muslims who may share some of their other religious convictions

867
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 9: but do not share their political ambitions. Yeah, you see

868
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 9: what the evangelical movement, which distinguishes themselves from other Christian

869
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 9: sects as being heretical or not fully committed to the wood,

870
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,959
Speaker 9: or have gone astray in some way.

871
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean you can see that with the evangelical

872
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 10: leaders and like the president picking fights with the literal

873
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 10: pope of the Catholic Church.

874
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, the beef between the Catholics and the

875
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 9: Protestants go kinda kind of far back. You suppose at

876
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 9: least share this scripture or this overarch in like religious

877
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 9: room work, and yet there's still a desire to delineate,

878
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 9: to separate, to define an enemy eaten within that cohort.

879
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 10: And a lot of those like current differences they do

880
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 10: relate to, like military action in the Middle East and

881
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 10: what's happening in Palestine, like specifically, and I found out

882
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 10: to be an interesting connection as you're as you're talking about,

883
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 10: you know, specifically like Christian Zionists and how the situation

884
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 10: in the Middle East is extremely important for their apocalyptic worldview.

885
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 10: And that is like one of the key differences between

886
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 10: between like evangelical Christians and you know, the current stuff

887
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 10: like that that the Pope is saying, which is uh,

888
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 10: you know, very much opposed to what's happening in the

889
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 10: Middle East.

890
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 9: Yeah, because they've constructed this very robust asktsological from work,

891
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 9: which is the next thing that I wanted to get into.

892
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 9: The language that these movements use helps to control their people.

893
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 9: They're controlling people not just through physical barriers, but through

894
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 9: psychological barriers.

895
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 10: Yeah.

896
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 9: If you can control the vocabulary available to a person,

897
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 9: how a person understands the meaning of words, how they

898
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 9: understand the meaning of their scriptures, you can control the

899
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 9: range of thoughts that they're capable of having.

900
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 6: You know.

901
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 9: That was kind of the point that as cliched. This

902
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 9: point is the point that georgioel was making when they

903
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 9: had the Ministry of Truth in nineteen eighty four. That

904
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 9: you limit even language available, so that even dissent cannot

905
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 9: be fully expressed. You don't have to censor anybody because

906
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 9: you've already censored their minds.

907
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, and you see that even their own creation of

908
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 10: like phrases and terms across all these groups, like they

909
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 10: come up with specific into a phrase, they just get repeated.

910
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 10: And that just starts like replacing language if it starts

911
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 10: filling in the gap of language and communication thought, terminating cliches.

912
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 9: Exactly exactly thought to any cliches, and also just a

913
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 9: broader cognitive enclosure. So in the case of Shinriquo, you

914
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 9: had the group using this dense pseudo scientific and pseudo

915
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 9: religious jargon that blended spirituality quantum physics biology, and those

916
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 9: who are most elevated in that group were able to

917
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 9: wield that language and make themselves sound so sophisticated and

918
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 9: elevated and on a higher plane of truth and reality.

919
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 9: That made it very easy for them to swindle people

920
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 9: within their circle. It created a linguistic barrier of the entry,

921
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 9: so that you couldn't participate even in the group's truth

922
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 9: without committing to the incomprehensible dogma. Yeah, and if you

923
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 9: don't commit to the incomprehensible dogma, then you just you

924
00:49:58,800 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 9: don't get it.

925
00:49:59,280 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 5: You're going to be an out.

926
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 9: You are not enlightened, you uh, outside of the truth.

927
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 5: Yeah.

928
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 10: And this this is a problem across a lot of

929
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 10: a lot of different groups and concluding groups that are

930
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 10: not this you know, apocalyptic or or fascist or like

931
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 10: religiously based. But they even see versions of this among

932
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 10: like the contemporary left, yeah, which creates like, yeah, this

933
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 10: like barrier to entry by using certain like phrases like

934
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 10: academic language.

935
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 9: Yeah, and and very idiosyncratic definitions of words that have

936
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 9: otherwise common definitions yeah.

937
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 5: No.

938
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 10: And and how much politics is like this subcultural purpose

939
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 10: of like maintaining a certain like subgroup like a social

940
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 10: circle versus actually building like mass politics, and how they

941
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 10: doo syncratic small like purity of groups with their special

942
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 10: language and these like barriers to entry makes it very

943
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 10: hard to do larger political organizing that actually goes towards

944
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 10: like a working class movement.

945
00:50:59,280 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

946
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 9: Lifting points out that there is a tendency for ideological

947
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 9: totalism in a lot of movements, as we would have mentioned,

948
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 9: So it's something we have to be on guard for

949
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 9: if we want to avoid falling into these traps, and

950
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 9: so we look at the example of a shamikio in

951
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 9: this case, but isis also has a kind of a

952
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 9: total elimination of nuance through polarized, emotionally charged vocabulary. You know,

953
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 9: you have the believer and you have the infidel, which

954
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 9: again includes fellow Muslims. You have the pure, and you

955
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 9: have the corrupt. Every dynamic, every binary is zero sum.

956
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 9: You know, you're either with the Caliphate or you're an

957
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 9: enemy of God to be wiped out. And within the

958
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 9: eschatological framework of Christian Zionism, opposing the apocalyptic and formed

959
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 9: of geopolitical ambitions is tant amount opposing God's plan. You know,

960
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 9: it's like, how dare you the uses thought terminating cliches

961
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 9: as you would have mentioned things like it is written, yeah, revelation.

962
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 9: You know, it's God's will, And there's no way to

963
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 9: actually challenge their policies or actions in their minds on

964
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 9: whether it be humanitarian, legal, or logical grounds, because it's

965
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 9: like you speak in Greek, I mean, doing something like

966
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 9: that is like arguing with God. It's like attacking their faith.

967
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 9: And so we also see these movements stripping individuals of

968
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 9: their agency for the sake of a transaction, the exchange

969
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 9: of the self with all its very real vulnerabilities and

970
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 9: mortality and earth limitations, for a higher purpose that is

971
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 9: eternal and absolute. In the case of Anchinrikio, the destruction

972
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 9: of this self was achieved through the redefinition of morality

973
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 9: that used a distorted interpretation of Vadaryana Buddhism and placed

974
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 9: the Master's will above all conventional ethics. To follow the

975
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 9: Master and achieve spiritual evolution, one had to abandon the

976
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 9: ego with its moral compass and its human attachments, and

977
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 9: in its place, aumition Q offered the merit of absolute obedience.

978
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 9: By following their leader's commands, even those of mass violence

979
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 9: that would expose the wider world to their threat, the

980
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 9: practitioner believed that they were performing a ritual act of

981
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 9: spiritual cleansing to become an instrument of a higher cosmic order.

982
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 9: You see the same thing with the rise of isis

983
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 9: the destruction of the self achieved through the total absorption

984
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 9: of the individual into the monolith. The individuals stripped to

985
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 9: their specific context, whatever nationality or background they may have had,

986
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 9: and being reduced to a singular functional component of the

987
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 9: struggle being given up purpose that was compensated with the

988
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 9: promise of eternal significance, the promise of martyrdom, of fighting

989
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 9: and dying for the caliphate, and with that the individual

990
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 9: could bypass the mundane struggles of earthly life to secure

991
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 9: a place in a permanent divine reaction and the political

992
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 9: theological sphere of Christian Zionism. The destruction of the self

993
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 9: has more to do with relinquishing the selfs agency and

994
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 9: become an instrumentalized for the sake of God's plan by

995
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 9: Freeman Israel's ascendants in the Middle East as an essential

996
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 9: precursor to the Second Coming of Christ, and when everything

997
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 9: in their power to lobby for and support it, the

998
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 9: movement disregards the genocidal costs for the reward being the

999
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 9: fulfillment of a define apocalyptic timeline. And so in all

1000
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 9: three cases, the follower is convinced that the destruction of

1001
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 9: this world as they know it, and the destruction of

1002
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 9: the self within it is not a tragedy, but actually

1003
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 9: a kind of liberation. For all three of these movements

1004
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 9: have been tragedies for the rest of the world. Amishinrikio

1005
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 9: deployed chemical weapons in Tokyo subway system. They killed thirteen

1006
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 9: people and injured over fifty eight hundred others, instill in

1007
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 9: a long term anxiety for those who live in the

1008
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 9: city that their shared space could be the site of

1009
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 9: potential terror and the person sitting next to you could

1010
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 9: be the vessel for a hidden lethal ideology. Isis has

1011
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 9: forcibly displaced millions, killed tens of thousands, and destroyed ancient

1012
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 9: heritage sites, all in an effort to erase the other,

1013
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 9: and the Middle East and Africa in particular continue to

1014
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 9: be scarred by its violence. Christian Zionist ideology has introduced

1015
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 9: a variable to the political equation that is immune to

1016
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 9: reason and negotiation, that cannot question its theological justifications. Of course,

1017
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 9: Zionism is not entirely dependent on Christian Zionist support. You know,

1018
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 9: Jewish colonial settlements would have predated British support, American support,

1019
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 9: and Christian Zionist support. But the political cosign that Christian

1020
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 9: Zionists provide within the premier superpower does aid in the

1021
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 9: continued support for the Palestinian genesis. So ideological totalism seeks

1022
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 9: to eliminate pluralism, to eliminate shared truth and to literally kill.

1023
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 9: But we should not view the rise of totalizing ideologies

1024
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 9: as some freak, isolated phenomenon, because it deprives its strength

1025
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 9: from the very framework and conditioning embedded in our existing

1026
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 9: social structures. The mechanisms of miliu control, loading the language,

1027
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 9: and other techniques used by cultic tendencies exist in subtle

1028
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 9: forms within our mainstream institutions. We see the seeds of

1029
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 9: thought or form in the echo chambers of media ecosystems.

1030
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 9: We see the loading of language in the polarized rhetoric

1031
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 9: of politics. We see the demand for purity in the

1032
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 9: most aggressive forms of cultural and religious tribalism. The extremist

1033
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 9: can sometimes be the most honest, uninhibited expression, the natural

1034
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 9: endpoint of our world's authoritarian tendencies and subtle lifelong conditioning

1035
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 9: at home, in the classroom, at work BOK. In civic life,

1036
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 9: we are trained in the soft versions of the very

1037
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 9: deference that totalize and leaders eventually demand. We are conditioned

1038
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 9: to respect authority without question, to prioritize the greater good

1039
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 9: of the institution over individual agency, and to accept official

1040
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 9: narratives as the only valid reality. So when a leader

1041
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 9: arrives who promises to replace the complex, messy and certainty

1042
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 9: of our political and social reality with the clarity of

1043
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 9: absolute truth. The most conditioned minds naturally find the offer

1044
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 9: at a seductive and so this disease caught through social

1045
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 9: condition must be treated by a fundamental reclamation of the

1046
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 9: individual's capacity for critical thought and autonomy. We have to

1047
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 9: move beyond the mere consumption of information to the active

1048
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 9: interrogation of it. This means cultivating the ability to recognize

1049
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 9: the traps of thought reform, the logical fallacies, the loading

1050
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 9: of the language, to recognize when an ideology is at

1051
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,439
Speaker 9: teens into bypass or reason in fever of or emotions.

1052
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 9: The primary defense against thought reform is the refusal so

1053
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 9: that any authority, religious, pilitical, or otherwise becomes secret and

1054
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 9: beyond question it.

1055
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that point that you made towards the

1056
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 10: end there, But like this thing just being the most

1057
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 10: visible consequence of the contradictions of our current social system

1058
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 10: is like really important. Is because yeah, I mean, we're

1059
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 10: all sorting through the same the same sorts of causes

1060
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 10: that that produced groups like this, or produce the people

1061
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 10: that move into groups like this, And we might sort

1062
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 10: these out in different ways, but in the way that

1063
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 10: they do it. It's not it's not fully alien, it's

1064
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 10: just it's just a very visible outward manifestation of the

1065
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 10: same sorts of internal contradictions, and like fascism feeds on

1066
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 10: these same things. You can see how much fascism like

1067
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 10: overlaps with a lot of stuff that you're talking about here, yep.

1068
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 10: And it seemed kind of like suicidal tendencies thistructure of

1069
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 10: the self, right, that is, that is dealing with those

1070
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 10: with those same sorts of like social tensions and internal

1071
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 10: contradictions that produce like outbursts of antisocial behavior like this

1072
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 10: or in some cases like genocidal behavior.

1073
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1074
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it's very much resultant. Oh, there's the

1075
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 9: structure of our old system.

1076
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 4: You know, the.

1077
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 9: Stresses, the anxiety, is the pains and pressure points, and

1078
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 9: you know, we are all different as individuals, and I

1079
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 9: think that some people respond to these conditions in weas

1080
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 9: that are very much either self destructive, externally destructive, or both.

1081
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 10: I think a part of our task in like a

1082
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 10: general sense, is providing some alternative to this. Right, you

1083
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 10: can like look at the way the really like on

1084
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 10: like a global level, like the left has really receded

1085
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 10: a lot in the past fifty sixty seventy years, and

1086
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 10: that that leaves a lot of you know, people who

1087
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 10: are who are trying to look for this for this

1088
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 10: sort of purpose, Right, They're trying to understand the contradictions

1089
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 10: of the world, and there may not be a humanistic

1090
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 10: option for that, so it gets directed into much more

1091
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 10: destructive ways. Sometimes you can see like what happened in

1092
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 10: Rajava with like democratic confederalism as like, right, they they

1093
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 10: actually did that, right, They they saw what was needed

1094
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 10: and they did it. And it's directly opposing the sort

1095
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 10: of alternative version which is which is isis which is

1096
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 10: like super interesting, Right, but I think we have we

1097
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 10: have the same problem here, and but we don't really

1098
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 10: have like a strong, strong, like alternative to that, right,

1099
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 10: like a healthy, a healthy and growing like working class

1100
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 10: movement which it attempts to actually solve the sort of

1101
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 10: sort of problems that are in the world that these

1102
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 10: sorts of other things like feed on. Right, they grab

1103
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 10: onto these onto these very very present problems and apply

1104
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 10: an emotionally soothing a response to it, even if it

1105
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 10: is self destructive.

1106
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, the work of building an alternative and demonstrating it

1107
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 9: and showing people live in it, I think is very

1108
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 9: very important.

1109
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1110
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 9: I also think that when you consider the fact that

1111
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 9: the wholemark of totalizing systems is the elimination of the

1112
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 9: other and the criminalization of dissent our antidotes, our alternative

1113
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 9: has to embrace. It has to be committed to the

1114
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 9: adversity of thought and expression. And I also think that

1115
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 9: it has to be willing to sit with conflict, to

1116
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 9: sit with tensions. Yeah, two, allow them to in ate

1117
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 9: with each other without trying to just override it with

1118
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 9: some false unity.

1119
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 10: Those tensions and conflict are like important, and that is

1120
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 10: how we will develop our thought and develop our movement forward.

1121
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 10: You have to you have to have those tensions. You

1122
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 10: have to have that that conflict and disagreement, which will

1123
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 10: hopefully produce more positive outcomes.

1124
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:04,919
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1125
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 9: Hopefully it's it's generative conflict and not destructive conflict. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1126
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 9: I mean, and some conflicts can be generative if we

1127
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 9: accept that they can't be resolved. I think part of

1128
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 9: what makes some conflicts destructive is this effort to kind

1129
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 9: of just paint over them with some kumbaya sense of

1130
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 9: oh well, just well, you just unify like that's not consequential,

1131
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 9: or we'll figure it out, or that's just how it is.

1132
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 9: And I think we we act to be willing to

1133
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 9: be uncomfortable with not having the answers, I mean, we

1134
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 9: never having the answers. In some cases. There are those

1135
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:47,439
Speaker 9: who I think will have the capacity to engage into

1136
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 9: de radicalization of ideological totalists. I don't think I'm among them,

1137
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 9: and I think that there are others that we can

1138
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 9: care outreach towards. Yes, I get irritated sometimes when I

1139
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 9: see people who believe that the focus of our attention

1140
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,959
Speaker 9: right now, as people trying to build an alternative, trying

1141
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 9: to build a better tomorrow, that our focus should be

1142
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 9: on trying to deradicalize right wingers.

1143
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1144
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 9: The vast majority of people are politically unaffiliated, politically uncommitted, apathetic, disengaged,

1145
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 9: and I think that we can do far more if

1146
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 9: we were to focus on reaching those people and helping

1147
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 9: those people see the problems with this system and the

1148
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 9: solutions that we have on offer than engaging in fruitless

1149
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 9: debate with right wingers or.

1150
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, And I think that's actually the most effective form

1151
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 10: of deradicalization, exactly exactly. There is a lot of problems

1152
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 10: with the sort of like deradicalization framework that emerge in

1153
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 10: like twenty eighteen to kind of meet the rise of

1154
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 10: like the alt right. A lot of it doesn't work,

1155
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 10: a lot of it can be fruitless, but there is

1156
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 10: like a noble intention behind it, and I think the

1157
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 10: best way to actually do that is by just providing

1158
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 10: a healthy alternative that does appeal to most people.

1159
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 4: It doesn't.

1160
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 10: It doesn't need to be catered towards someone who's on

1161
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 10: like the right or like the far right, because in

1162
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 10: a lot of cases those people are suffering from the

1163
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 10: same sorts of problems that the rest of people are.

1164
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 10: They've just found of a false solution for it, and

1165
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 10: so if you're able to provide a better solution, a

1166
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 10: lot of them will move over. There's really very few

1167
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 10: that are like through and tried, like ideologically committed, right.

1168
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 10: There's some, and they're maybe very vocal on the Internet,

1169
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 10: but that's that's not actually like most.

1170
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, and also the Internet is at least half thoughts

1171
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 9: at this point, so yeah, you know, you teach some

1172
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 9: of those Internet discussions with a green as salt in

1173
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 9: terms of being representative of any population significantly. But I

1174
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 9: did have some tips with regard to outreach for those

1175
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 9: who may have a special interest in it or maybe

1176
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 9: have a loved one that they really want to help

1177
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 9: where they see being immersed in an ideologically totalistic environment.

1178
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 9: For one, directly, attack in a person's core beliefs are

1179
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 9: going to trigger something called the backfire effect, which is

1180
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 9: where contradictory evidence actually strengthens their conviction because their identity

1181
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 9: is not used to their ideology, so an attack on

1182
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 9: the idea is perceived as a mortal attack on the self.

1183
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 9: Debating them is not.

1184
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 5: Going to help.

1185
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 9: It's better to think of yourself more as a connecting

1186
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 9: force rather than a correcting force. Your a lifeline, yeah

1187
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 9: to gently guide them out of their radical mindset rather

1188
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 9: than trying to instruct them out of it. To be

1189
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 9: rate them out of it. And when you notice that

1190
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 9: they're experience and doubt in their ideas, it can be

1191
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 9: very exciting to try and rush in and show them

1192
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 9: the way, but you don't want to overwhelm them. Doubt,

1193
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 9: especially for people immersed in that mindset, might literally collapse

1194
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 9: their entire social and cognitive world. So your focus, I think,

1195
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 9: needs to be unprovided a safe harbor where their doubts

1196
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 9: can be expressed freely, without judgment or any pressure to

1197
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 9: immediately betray all that they've ever known. You also need

1198
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 9: to consider the conditions that led the person into that

1199
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 9: situation in the first place. If you know what they

1200
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 9: were like and what their situation was like prior to indoctrination,

1201
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 9: whether they had certain relationship issues, financial issues, systemic abuses, traumas, isolation,

1202
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 9: some kind of yunin for meaning or purpose that can

1203
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 9: help you contextualize the situation. And while you can always

1204
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 9: fundamentally disagree with their conclusions, it's good to recognize the

1205
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 9: needs that drove them to those conclusions. But in addition

1206
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 9: to that, you can try to find out what their

1207
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 9: passions and will or are outside of that doctrine, so

1208
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 9: they have some kind of psychological landing pad if they

1209
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 9: were to escape the environment, so that they're not without

1210
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 9: a sense of self, so they're not floundering for some

1211
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 9: form of identity. These movements and this tendency for ideological

1212
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 9: totalism derived from hierarchy will not be overcome in one

1213
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 9: fell swoop. It is a continuous daily struggle within the

1214
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 9: human mind and the social fabric. It's a struggle to

1215
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 9: remain unconditioned by the temptations of certainty, to hold on

1216
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 9: to the messy, the diverse, the complex, to create a

1217
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 9: social foundation of individuals who are capable of saying no

1218
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 9: and that's it for me, or power to all the

1219
01:07:51,200 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 9: people peace. When we think of globalization, we often think

1220
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 9: of trade and late twentieth century technological interconnection and the

1221
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 9: movement of capital. But there was another kind of globalization

1222
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 9: emerging in the late nineteenth century. That was the globalization

1223
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 9: of resistance. In the closing decades of the eighteen hundreds,

1224
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 9: a network of ideas, outlaws, and revolutionaries would emerged to

1225
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 9: challenge the empires of the time. Welcome to Ikarappan. Here,

1226
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 9: I'm Andrew's Age Andrewism on YouTube. I'm joined again.

1227
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 10: By Garrison Davis.

1228
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:46,919
Speaker 9: Hello, welcome again and in this episode, using the research

1229
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 9: of historian Bendic Anderson in chapter five of the Age

1230
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 9: of Globalization, I want to look at this period in

1231
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 9: history where the tools of empire were appropriated by the

1232
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:01,520
Speaker 9: very people the empire sought to suppress. To link anarchist

1233
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 9: prisoners in Monturiche to intellectuals in Paris, to agitators in Cuba,

1234
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 9: to nationalists into Philippines. Now, the story doesn't actually begin

1235
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 9: in Monturige prison in Barcelona, Spain, but a narrative begins there.

1236
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 9: Following the June seventh, eighteen ninety six bomben in Corpus Christi,

1237
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 9: three hundred people were imprisoned in a wave of Spanish

1238
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:29,520
Speaker 9: state repression. Among those caught in the crackdown was Fernando

1239
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 9: Trida del Marmol, a Cuban Creole whose background connected him

1240
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 9: to both Metropol and Colony. His imprisonment was a direct

1241
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 9: consequence of the state's attempt to suppress the burgenin anarchist

1242
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 9: movement in Catalonia. They will only end up fueling the

1243
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 9: movement thanks to the efforts of the radical international press.

1244
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 9: Triedo was a math teacher, which actually helped him out

1245
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 9: when he got arrested, because a young lieutenant warden recognized

1246
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 9: his former teacher and managed to sound the alarm of

1247
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,600
Speaker 9: his incarceration. Thurida also happened to be the cousin of

1248
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:05,719
Speaker 9: a conservative senator who used his influence to inshure Trida's release.

1249
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 9: But Trida didn't let these privileges cause him to forget

1250
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 9: his less privileged fellow prisoners, because he immediately upon release,

1251
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 9: went to Paris, the city of duality, a city that

1252
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 9: was both the central capital of colonial power and a

1253
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 9: premier global hub for political descent. So then in Paris

1254
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 9: to Reda gained access to La Revue Blanche, a very

1255
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 9: popular periodical of the era. He'd been a recognized writer

1256
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 9: from before his imprisonment, as he popularly advocated for anarchism

1257
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 9: without adjectives, and he had gotten into a back and

1258
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 9: forth about workers associations and bureaucracy and propaganda of the

1259
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 9: deed with a cit In gene Grave, who was another

1260
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 9: popular French anarchist of the period. So in Lar Review

1261
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 9: Blanche Taeder published his personal brutal experience of imprisonment and

1262
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 9: contextualized it as a broader political indictment by connecting the

1263
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 9: gruesome suppression of descent in Barcelona to the exact same

1264
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 9: mechanisms being deployed in the Spanish colonies of Cuba, Puerto

1265
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 9: Rico and the Philippines. Thus, he demonstrated that repression into

1266
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 9: Spanish provinces was not an isolated domestic issue, but a

1267
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 9: fundamental characteristic of Spanish clonial policy. And this narrative was

1268
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 9: taken up and amplified by the efforts of Philip Fignon

1269
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 9: and Georges Clement Chau. Fili Fignon was an influential art

1270
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 9: critic and prominent anarchist intellectual who helped frame this struggle

1271
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 9: against Spanish repression as a significant moral crisis. He also

1272
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 9: wrote strongly against French imperialism and Revanist nationalism. And Georges

1273
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 9: Clement Chau was a radical journalist and politician considered a

1274
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 9: formidable figure in the defense of political prisoners as he

1275
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 9: had the capacity to mobilize public opinion around issues of

1276
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 9: justice state authority. So together these figures helped ensure that

1277
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 9: the grievances of to Reader and the Spanish prisoners were

1278
01:11:55,160 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 9: integrated into the global conversation now. Historian Benedict Andersson situated

1279
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 9: these events within the long nineteenth century, which had a

1280
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 9: lot of high profile political violence, specifically anarchist bombings and

1281
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 9: targeted assassinations, which prompted a correspondent escalation in state power

1282
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 9: through much more stringent legal frameworks and surveillance apparatus. Parallel

1283
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 9: to the rise of anti terror legislation was the emergence

1284
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 9: of a new structured infrastructure of descent consistent of labor

1285
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 9: organizations and radical press, which served as a vital nod

1286
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 9: in the global network capable of circulating revolutionary ideas and

1287
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:40,799
Speaker 9: coordinating resistance across borders. In addition to the Montjewish affair,

1288
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 9: the Dreyfus affair would also be amplified by this network.

1289
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 9: The Drefus affair was an incident in French history where

1290
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 9: in eighteen ninety four, a certain Alfred Dreyfus, who was

1291
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 9: a Jewish captain in the French Army, was accused of treason,

1292
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 9: alleged to have passed sensitive military documents to the German

1293
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 9: intelligence services. The evidence against him was largely based on

1294
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 9: forged documents and a high degree of anti Semitic prejudice.

1295
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 9: Sir Dreyfus was convicted, stripped of his rank, and sentenced

1296
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 9: to life imprisonment on Devil's Island, but the radical press

1297
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 9: began calling this out, especially when evidence surface suggested that

1298
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:22,599
Speaker 9: the actual spy was another officer, Ferdinand Wilson esther Hazy,

1299
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 9: But the French military high command had covered it up,

1300
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 9: suppressing evidence, manipulating corproceedings and intimidating witnesses to ensure that

1301
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 9: Dreyfus remained convicted. A pivotal moment in the affair was

1302
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 9: the publication of non radical Emil Zola's open letter Jacques

1303
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 9: in the newspaper Le Roux in eighteen ninety eight, as

1304
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 9: Zola used the power of the press to directly challenge

1305
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:49,839
Speaker 9: the military high command after the real culprit was acquitted

1306
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 9: the day after his trial began. This landed Zola in

1307
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 9: jail for Libel, where he eventually got out on a

1308
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:58,839
Speaker 9: plead you, but it also earned him the tenuous respect

1309
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 9: of some critical left wing intellectuals. Meanwhile, Tereda had already

1310
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 9: left Paris for Belgium, then London, where he made use

1311
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 9: of his contacts around the world to create a coalition

1312
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 9: of quote liberals, freemasons, socialists, anarchists, anti imperialists and anti

1313
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 9: clericals against the Spanish government and especially against Prime Minister

1314
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,799
Speaker 9: Antonio Canovas del Castillo, the conservative who was the chief

1315
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 9: architect of the brutal repression of Spanish anarchists, socialists, and

1316
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 9: labor activists. Domestically, his aim was to ensure the stability

1317
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 9: of the Spanish monarchy amidst growing pressures of anarchism, labor unrest,

1318
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 9: colonial rebellion, and American aggression. On August ninth, eighteen ninety seven,

1319
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 9: the Italian anarchist Michel Angiolillo assassinated Canovas. Angiolillo was a

1320
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 9: real monarchy hater. He had traveled to Barcelona under a

1321
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 9: fake name and was working as a freelance printer when

1322
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 9: the Corpus Christie Bouman occurred. The city was put under

1323
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 9: martial law and his anarchist friends were incarcerated in Montriche.

1324
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 9: After hearing about how they were being tortured, he fled

1325
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 9: for Paris, was expelled to Belgium, then moved to London,

1326
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 9: where to Reader's agitation against the Canova's regime was at

1327
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 9: full strength. He continued to work as a printer and

1328
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 9: engaged in activism in London for some time, where people

1329
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 9: asked who would avenge those tortured and murdered by the

1330
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 9: Spanish state, including the recently executed Jose Rizal, who was

1331
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:33,719
Speaker 9: a Filipino nationalist. So after hearing this, Anguolil was like okay,

1332
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 9: bet and he makes his way back to continental Europe

1333
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 9: with a pistol in his pocket. In France, he meets

1334
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:44,600
Speaker 9: doctor Ramon Betansis, who was a Puerto Rican physician revolutionary

1335
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 9: who sought the independence of Puerto Rico and the dismantling

1336
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 9: of Spanish colonial authority.

1337
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 4: In the antelites.

1338
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 9: He spent his life country hop in helping the sick

1339
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 9: and flee in Spanish spies, and although he was an

1340
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 9: an anarchist, he was connected with a lot of anarchists,

1341
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:02,759
Speaker 9: particularly French and Italian anarchists, through the heterogenous front against

1342
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:07,679
Speaker 9: the Spanish State, against imperialism and monarchical tyranny. The European

1343
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 9: anarchists and socialists found a natural ally in the anti

1344
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 9: colonial movement he was part of, as the liberation of

1345
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 9: Puerto Rico and Cuba would represent a vital blow against

1346
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 9: the same imperialist structures they were fighting to dismantle in Europe.

1347
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 5: Now.

1348
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 9: Bitansis claims he redirected the target of Angolillo's planned assassination

1349
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 9: from the Spanish Queen regent and infant son to the

1350
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 9: Prime Minister, but Benedet Anderson calls this narrative into question

1351
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 9: because there doesn't seem to be any corroborating evidence anyway.

1352
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 9: So Angiolillo gets to Madrid, he learns Canovas' location, he

1353
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 9: stalks him for a bit, and then he shoots him.

1354
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 9: Dead with the pistol he brought from London. In his trial,

1355
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:54,680
Speaker 9: Angiolillo defends himself with reference to Montjuiche and Cuba and

1356
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,719
Speaker 9: the Philippines, and says, quote Canova's personified in their most

1357
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 9: repugnant forms, religious ferocity, military cruelty, the implacability of the judiciary,

1358
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 9: the tyranny of power, and the greed of the possessing classes.

1359
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 9: I have rid Spain, Europe and the entire world of him.

1360
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 9: That is why I am no assassin, but rather an

1361
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:20,759
Speaker 9: executioner that does coke pretty hard, it does go hard.

1362
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 4: When is this?

1363
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:23,720
Speaker 10: Is this late eighteen hundreds or early nineteen.

1364
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 9: Hundreds, late eighteen hundreds, late teen hundreds, Okay, yeah, So

1365
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 9: after his rousing speech, he was then himself executed at

1366
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 9: just twenty six years old. Now beyond being a symptom

1367
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 9: of imperial crisis, Canovas's assassination functioned as an accelerant. By

1368
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,720
Speaker 9: removing such as central figure of the political machinery of

1369
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 9: Spain in the midst of its war against the US,

1370
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:53,640
Speaker 9: Angiolillos act triggered the volatility that would culminate in the

1371
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:58,760
Speaker 9: loss of Spain's final colonial possessions in eighteen ninety eight

1372
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 9: Q were the Philippines and Puerto Rico were in the

1373
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 9: hands of the United States, and the bullets that killed

1374
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 9: Canovas just kept going well into the decades to come. Now,

1375
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 9: speaking of the Philippines, we can turn out that Pacific

1376
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 9: node of the movement network, Isabelo delos Race was a

1377
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 9: moderate liberal of his time, somewhat privileged as a businessman, publisher,

1378
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 9: and journalist, but he wasn't afraid to advocate strongly against

1379
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 9: Spanish colonial rule and was arrested in connection to the

1380
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,760
Speaker 9: Philippine Revolution of eighteen ninety six as part of a

1381
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 9: broader oppression against rebels, intellectuals, and activists. The revolution had

1382
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 9: begun prematurely after the Spanish authorities discovered their plot, and

1383
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 9: so many of the revolutionaries whore imprisoned as a result. Now,

1384
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,640
Speaker 9: while imprisoned, Isabello had to deal with the death of

1385
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:03,600
Speaker 9: his wife and was unable to attend her funeral or

1386
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 9: do anything for their children. Naturally, after an experience like that,

1387
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 9: he'll be pissed at the colonial injustices that he and

1388
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 9: his people suffered at the hands of the government and

1389
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 9: at the hands of the religious orders. He demanded political

1390
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,440
Speaker 9: reform and was met with relocation, first to a Barcelona

1391
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:26,799
Speaker 9: municipal jail and then to the infamous Montuish. While in Spain,

1392
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 9: he met several brave anarchists who had been in prison

1393
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 9: for various crimes, crimes including advocating for Cuban independence, protesting

1394
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 9: trials by military courts, and opening secular schools gasp for children,

1395
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 9: which I mean it was Catholic Spain at that point

1396
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 9: in time. Yeah, so that was like the worst thing

1397
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 9: you could possibly do. There were some anarchists who were

1398
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 9: in jail for assassinations, but I mean, come on, what's

1399
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:56,440
Speaker 9: a little assassination between friends.

1400
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 10: I mean the assassination and opening a school I think

1401
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 10: is the same level of danger to the state at

1402
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:02,679
Speaker 10: this point.

1403
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:10,600
Speaker 9: Indeed, and these dangerous criminals demonstrated a level of solidarity

1404
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 9: that really inspired Isabello. And while in prison he also

1405
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 9: got access to anarchist literature and was able to take

1406
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 9: part in discussions with anarchists where he learned about their

1407
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 9: rejection of state authority, colonial domination, and class hierarchy. Now,

1408
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,839
Speaker 9: in this exile period, I don't think he ever became

1409
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 9: an anarchist, and I mean late in his life. Even

1410
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 9: sued as a senator, but he was profoundly influenced by

1411
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 9: the anarchists and did come to admire them for decades

1412
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 9: to come. Eventually, following the assassination of Canovas and the

1413
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 9: change in government in eighteen ninety eight, Isabello was freed.

1414
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 9: He then moved to Madrid and started a fortnightly publication,

1415
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 9: Filipinas and the europa An Anti Periodist Critique, with particular

1416
01:20:56,200 --> 01:21:00,000
Speaker 9: focus on the growing American Empire. And it's funny because

1417
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 9: after Spain lost their colonies to the US, all of

1418
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 9: a sudden, public opinion in Spain started to become sympathetic

1419
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 9: to the Filipino fight. It was like, oh, now we

1420
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 9: could start to feel bad feel you know, the Americans

1421
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:17,080
Speaker 9: embarrassed us, so now we have some sympathy. He applied,

1422
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 9: and so Isabelo criticized America's claim to be liberate in

1423
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 9: the Philippines and Cuba as hypocrisy by pointing to the

1424
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 9: regular occurrence of lygens and racist institutions within the US,

1425
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,480
Speaker 9: and he also criticized the Filipino elite for their willingness

1426
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,639
Speaker 9: to collaborate with the new colonial rulers. The Philippino Revolution

1427
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 9: was basically over by nineteen oh one, as a key

1428
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 9: leader named Emilio Aguinaldo was captured and had to swear

1429
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 9: allegiance to the US. By the way, Alcuinaldo would also

1430
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:51,240
Speaker 9: prove to be a collaborator later in his life, as

1431
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 9: he worked with the Japanese occupiers of the Philippines during

1432
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 9: World War Two. So it's a Patsma behavior for that

1433
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:01,839
Speaker 9: guy anyway. So after the end of the revolution, Isabello

1434
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 9: decided to finally return to the Philippines to reunite with

1435
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 9: the six children he had with his first wife, who

1436
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 9: he hadn't seen in years, and to continue the struggle. Also,

1437
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 9: when he was in Spain, he got married. Isabello arrived

1438
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 9: in Manila with the works of Thomas Aquinas Voltaire, Pedrosph Prudon,

1439
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 9: Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Peter Kropotkin, and Erico Manchester. He

1440
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,799
Speaker 9: might have been the first person to bring the works

1441
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 9: of some of these thinkers to the Philippines. And I

1442
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 9: think we kind of understate that luck of the draw

1443
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 9: I suppose when we talk about the movement of ideas

1444
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 9: in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, you know, they didn't

1445
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 9: have the Internet, they didn't have the anarchist library.

1446
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 4: It takes a lot of work.

1447
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:46,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1448
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:49,599
Speaker 9: Yeah, they didn't have all these accessible means of learning

1449
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 9: about these ideas. So if you didn't happen to know

1450
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 9: somebody who could bring in that kind of literature for you, well,

1451
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:57,919
Speaker 9: first of all, you wouldn't even know that literature existed

1452
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 9: unless somebody told you about it. Yeah, the access to

1453
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 9: information was severely limited. And so fortunately Isobello brought these

1454
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 9: ideas to Philippines. That he was the first to do

1455
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 9: so in his time. But as we'll soon see, the

1456
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 9: history of the Philippines could have gotten in a slightly

1457
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 9: different trajectory if he had not brought in that literature,

1458
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 9: learned about those ideas, started engaging and agitating on that

1459
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:24,920
Speaker 9: basis based on his experiences. I mean, he ended up

1460
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:27,839
Speaker 9: in a Spanish prison, of all places, So the Spanish

1461
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 9: Empire that imprisoned him ended up so in the seeds

1462
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 9: for rebellion in the former territory later on.

1463
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 10: As it happens, a not uncommon turn of events.

1464
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:41,760
Speaker 9: Actually, indeed, so Isabella pulls up in Manila and his

1465
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 9: reputation as an anti imperialist preceded him. He was labeled

1466
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:50,160
Speaker 9: a dangerous anarchist, and it really didn't help that the

1467
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 9: US President McKinley had literally been shot to death by

1468
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 9: an anarchist just a month prior.

1469
01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 10: This whole period of time is just while every time

1470
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 10: that that I've done an episode with you about like

1471
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,639
Speaker 10: the late eighteen hundreds to early to early nineteen hundreds,

1472
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:07,759
Speaker 10: it's always it's always.

1473
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 4: Stuff like this.

1474
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:13,040
Speaker 10: It's like, yeah, an unbelievable collection of happenings, like like

1475
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 10: history really has such a momentum during this period, Like

1476
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 10: it's it's it's unbelievable.

1477
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1478
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 9: I just I really enjoyed during those connections because I mean,

1479
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 9: he came to Manila with all these organizational plans. He

1480
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 9: was going to start a party, he was going to

1481
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,800
Speaker 9: launch a news people but as he pulls up and

1482
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 9: he realizes he's literally on a list. Yeah, you know,

1483
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 9: he kind of had to scrap those ideas and pull

1484
01:24:39,479 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 9: back a bit.

1485
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 10: And like Lenin's doing the same stuff like in Germany

1486
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 10: and Russia during the same time, like everyone everyone, like

1487
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 10: everyone understands the mission. Yeah, yeah, everyone knows what has

1488
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 10: to happen.

1489
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 9: And this is like before the standardization of passports. Yeah,

1490
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 9: this is before the global visa system, and so people

1491
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 9: are literally just and around. Yeah, I mean, I always

1492
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 9: marveled the fact that Rakamana Testa was like he was

1493
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,559
Speaker 9: getting active in Egypt. At one point he pulled up

1494
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:11,759
Speaker 9: in Brazil. You know, everybody has to come to Brazil.

1495
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 9: Eventually he was everywhere, right, and these ideas were everywhere too,

1496
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 9: as a result of the movement of people bringing these books,

1497
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 9: bringing these ideas get involved in conversation. It also helped,

1498
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 9: of course, that a lot of anarchists were printmakers still

1499
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 9: are still. Yeah, many such cases. So Isabelo switched strategies.

1500
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 9: In his words, he took advantage of the occasion to

1501
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 9: put into practice the good ideas that he had learned

1502
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 9: from the anarchists of Barcelona who were imprisoned with him

1503
01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 9: in the infamous Fortress of Montrige. So he started organ

1504
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 9: in the working class in Manila. He had the benefit

1505
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 9: of actually being able to speak the language of the

1506
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 9: swaths of workers in Manila because he happened to come

1507
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 9: from the same region of the fastly linguistically diverse Philippines

1508
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 9: that they did. He was from the ilocost region of

1509
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 9: the island of Luzon, and he natively spoke the Ilocano language,

1510
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:24,719
Speaker 9: like many of the workers that had migrated to Milan.

1511
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 9: Though he was technically part of the intelligence here, Isabello

1512
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 9: had a connection to the roots, you know, to the

1513
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:36,160
Speaker 9: people streets, and so he began by organizing the printers,

1514
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 9: of course, and helping them with their strikes, and from

1515
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 9: their the efforts very quickly snowballed far quicker than the

1516
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:48,640
Speaker 9: elites could have anticipated into a cross industry worker federation

1517
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:53,679
Speaker 9: called the Union Obrera Democratica, the first of its kind

1518
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 9: in the entire country. The federation was flexible and loosely structured,

1519
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 9: which made it quite suited to under taken various strike actions.

1520
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 9: But beyond demonstrations and strikes, Isabello also incorporated a little

1521
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 9: local flavor because the union was also involved in festivals

1522
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:14,679
Speaker 9: and theater and music events, so it was a combination

1523
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 9: of worker and non worker based organization. You get a

1524
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 9: little bit of everybody involved when you do that, rather

1525
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 9: than strictly focusing on just one plane of struggle and connection. Eventually, however,

1526
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 9: the Americans got their act together and met this movement

1527
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 9: with surveillance, arrest and trials, and though they couldn't legally

1528
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 9: justify keeping him in jail for very long. They did

1529
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 9: throw Isabello back into jail for a short period. Now,

1530
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 9: the Worker Federation would eventually collapse, but the ideas remained,

1531
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:50,719
Speaker 9: and those ideas fed directly into various labor organizations, socialist parties,

1532
01:27:51,080 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 9: and gorilla movements going forward. As for Isabello, his second wife,

1533
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:59,400
Speaker 9: the one he married in Spain, died and two years

1534
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 9: later he married again. Twenty eighteen year old Isabello married

1535
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 9: and was widowed three times. He actually outlived all of

1536
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 9: his wives and had a grand total of twenty seven children.

1537
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:15,960
Speaker 10: Jesus Christ.

1538
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, I have no comments on what kind of father

1539
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 9: he may have been, but that's just.

1540
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 10: I mean, yeah, you can you can kind of assume

1541
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 10: based on those numbers, but yeah, that is what it is.

1542
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:31,080
Speaker 9: And the fact that he was he was in Spain,

1543
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 9: got married in Spain, had six children back home who

1544
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 9: had lost their mother. Yeah, I mean, he wasn't in

1545
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 9: Spain by choice, right, But yeah, you know, he was

1546
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,320
Speaker 9: middle class, so he may have had family back at

1547
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 9: home taken care of his children, but still as rough.

1548
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:47,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, that is rough.

1549
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 9: So later on his life, like I mentioned before, he

1550
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 9: got into electoral politics on the municipal level, and the

1551
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 9: Senate level. And he also in his life got to

1552
01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 9: work in religious reform, eventually found in the Aglipayan Church,

1553
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 9: which was the first ever Philipino independent Catholic Christian church.

1554
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:10,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, I was I was wondering because, like you you mentioned,

1555
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:11,800
Speaker 10: he brought over Thomas Aquinas.

1556
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:12,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1557
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:16,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, he was very critical of the religious orders, the

1558
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 9: Spanish Catholic religious orders. But yeah, he ended up forming

1559
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,080
Speaker 9: an independent Catholic church, so a Catholic church that is

1560
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:24,599
Speaker 9: not associated with Rome.

1561
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 10: You said he didn't identify as an anarchist. Did he

1562
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 10: identify as like a socialist? Like what kind of was

1563
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:35,280
Speaker 10: his like self defined politics like around around this point

1564
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 10: and like when he started running for office on the

1565
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 10: municipal level.

1566
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 9: I didn't see how he defined himself. I think he

1567
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 9: considered himself to be a patriot, you know, a patriot

1568
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 9: somebody who is pro labor. I don't know that he

1569
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 9: assigned himself necessarily the title of socialist or anarchist or

1570
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 9: liberal or anything like that.

1571
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, he has.

1572
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 9: However, been called the father of the Philippine Mabe movie

1573
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 9: mount and the father of Filipino socialism. But what do

1574
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:06,800
Speaker 9: we take from all of this? You know, the empire,

1575
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:13,599
Speaker 9: my globalized trade, my globalized capital mic globalize various forms

1576
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:19,520
Speaker 9: of suppression, but it inevasively globalizes resistance. The same infrastructure

1577
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:25,559
Speaker 9: that empires used to extend their reach across their claimed

1578
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:28,840
Speaker 9: territories is the same infrastructure that radicals can use to fight.

1579
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,599
Speaker 9: You know, even prison was used as a site of connection,

1580
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 9: a literal place of oppression, became a place that connected

1581
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:43,920
Speaker 9: people across multiple countries. I think the lesson that I

1582
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:48,720
Speaker 9: take away from this kind of narrative I've spun here

1583
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 9: between the Cuban and Creole Fernando Tider, the Puerto Rican

1584
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:59,719
Speaker 9: doctor Ramonetansis, the Italian Michelle Angiolillo, and the Filipino Isabelo

1585
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 9: Delo race is that the globalization was not a one

1586
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:13,080
Speaker 9: way imposition. We could potentially adopt the empire's tools to

1587
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 9: fight back and to network or resistance.

1588
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:19,719
Speaker 10: People who are doing resistance but on the other side

1589
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:22,680
Speaker 10: of the political spectrum do this same thing. Like the

1590
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:26,520
Speaker 10: formation of isis in prisons because of how we imprisoned

1591
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:31,839
Speaker 10: all kind of members is a pretty key example of this. Yeah,

1592
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:34,760
Speaker 10: this is a very common thing. Like it turns out,

1593
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,360
Speaker 10: very very often the master's tools actually are used to

1594
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 10: dismantle the master's house. That that phrase still has some

1595
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:46,360
Speaker 10: like I think metaphorical uses, but in the in a

1596
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 10: sort of like literalist sense. I occasionally push back on it,

1597
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:54,760
Speaker 10: because yeah, it does. It does view movement as a

1598
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 10: one way thing, and it has it has like no

1599
01:31:56,680 --> 01:32:00,200
Speaker 10: dialectical analysis, and I think part of part of our

1600
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:04,840
Speaker 10: job is like adapting it and moving as empire and

1601
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 10: capital adapts and moves to the flow of history one.

1602
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 9: And with that, as always all power to all the people. Peace,

1603
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:30,959
Speaker 9: Hello everyone, and welcome.

1604
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 11: To it could happened here. My name is Dan al Kurd.

1605
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:35,799
Speaker 11: I'm a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics,

1606
01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:39,080
Speaker 11: and today I have with me Andrew Lever. Andrew liber

1607
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 11: is a non resident scholar in the Carnegab of Elie

1608
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:44,800
Speaker 11: Program and an assistant professor in Tulane University's Department of

1609
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 11: Political Science and their Middle East and North Africa Studies Program.

1610
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 11: His research and teaching focuses on the domestic politics and

1611
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 11: international relations of the Middle East and North Africa region,

1612
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:56,479
Speaker 11: with that particular focus on Saudi Arabia. Andrew, thanks so

1613
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:59,439
Speaker 11: much for joining us. Thanks for having me so I

1614
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 11: wanted to have on today because well the war and iron,

1615
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 11: but also because I think there's been a lot of

1616
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:09,679
Speaker 11: reporting and some that's not very well sourced in mainstream media,

1617
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 11: like the New York Times about the GCC states GCC

1618
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 11: Golf Cooperation Council, so the Arab Golf States, about their

1619
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 11: motivations and the actions of the Golf States during this war.

1620
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 11: I think that there's been a lot of obfuscation for

1621
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 11: a variety of reasons. So I wanted to bring you

1622
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:28,880
Speaker 11: on giving your expertise to kind of clarify fact from

1623
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 11: fiction on some of that. We're recording May twenty eighth,

1624
01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 11: so maybe people have seen this. Trump also recently threatened

1625
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:39,679
Speaker 11: to bomb Aman who were acting as mediators initially. So yeah,

1626
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:42,160
Speaker 11: I wanted to go through all the main GCC actors

1627
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:45,719
Speaker 11: and get your analysis of their behavior during this war,

1628
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 11: what they want to happen when it's over.

1629
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 5: Sure, I'm happy to do so.

1630
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 12: I think one thing that has been a little hard

1631
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 12: for people to follow maybe has been the tendency for

1632
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 12: US and English language media outlistens talked about the Gulf

1633
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 12: States or the g States are they want from this conflict.

1634
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 5: But even heading into.

1635
01:34:03,439 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 12: This war, there were already key differences among these countries.

1636
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 12: There was a diplomatic and increasingly potentially a military rift

1637
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,600
Speaker 12: between Saudi Arabia and the neighboring.

1638
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:15,640
Speaker 5: United Arab Emirates.

1639
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:18,760
Speaker 12: There have been past disputes between different cult countries as well,

1640
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 12: and even though initially the Iran War seemed like it

1641
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:25,639
Speaker 12: would paper over the cracks in these divisions, in many ways,

1642
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 12: it's also deepened the divides as different countries have interpreted

1643
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:33,559
Speaker 12: the threats posed by Iron and by Israel and potentially

1644
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 12: even the United States in different ways. So at present

1645
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:40,880
Speaker 12: we can maybe think of three broad camps within the GCC.

1646
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:44,360
Speaker 12: So there's Study Arabia, the largest by land mass of

1647
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 12: these countries, and to a lesser extent, Kuwait and also

1648
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 12: Kutar have taken the approach of trying to just get

1649
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,839
Speaker 12: things back to quote unquote normal or like a new normal,

1650
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 12: supporting mediation efforts by other countries like Pakistan, and now

1651
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:03,800
Speaker 12: for Kutar increasingly engaged in direct mediation to try to

1652
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:07,840
Speaker 12: lock in some kind of agreement that restores flows of

1653
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:10,120
Speaker 12: energy and other goods in and out of the Strait

1654
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:12,599
Speaker 12: of Horus, the key body of water that.

1655
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:14,599
Speaker 5: Allows things in and out of the Persian Gulf.

1656
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:17,799
Speaker 12: You are then in one direction, you have the United

1657
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:21,639
Speaker 12: Arab Empirates, which has presented itself as kind of much

1658
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:25,680
Speaker 12: more hawkish in terms of its willingness to potentially use

1659
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 12: military force against Iran or to join the United States

1660
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 12: in a military effort to open the Strait of Hormuz.

1661
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:35,880
Speaker 12: In the past few days it's been quietly walking back

1662
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 12: some of those positions, but it has tried to drag

1663
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 12: our contrast between its more assertive stance towards Irani and

1664
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:46,000
Speaker 12: actions in the region and Saudi Arabia, and then the

1665
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,280
Speaker 12: other direction has discussed we have a soult minival mind

1666
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 12: which leaned much further in the other direction during the war,

1667
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:54,719
Speaker 12: being the only country that criticized openly from the start

1668
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:58,240
Speaker 12: both the US and Israeli led attacks on Iran and

1669
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:00,960
Speaker 12: Iran's reprisals on the other side of the gold Amani

1670
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 12: foreign Minister Balbusaid went on US television prior to the

1671
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,840
Speaker 12: war to make the case that this was the possible

1672
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:11,320
Speaker 12: ongoing talks be in the US and Iran could bear

1673
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:15,080
Speaker 12: fruit that was unsuccessful as an intervention, but also Allmandi

1674
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:18,400
Speaker 12: diplomats at various points have offered much more critical commentary

1675
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:21,040
Speaker 12: of the United States, but they have likewise kind of

1676
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 12: walked that back or at least not emphasized it as

1677
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:27,400
Speaker 12: much in recent weeks. But clearly there is a narrative

1678
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,120
Speaker 12: critical of ver role that circulates in some parts of DC,

1679
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:33,320
Speaker 12: which percolated its way up into the President saying, well,

1680
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:36,719
Speaker 12: if if Aman is not going to cooperate with certain things,

1681
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,679
Speaker 12: then you will just bomb them until they do, which

1682
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:43,080
Speaker 12: you know is not the nicest way to ask for

1683
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:46,200
Speaker 12: the cooperation of other countries and a sensitive geopolitical issue, but.

1684
01:36:46,280 --> 01:36:49,599
Speaker 11: So it goes right, we're not the most effective these days,

1685
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 11: let's say. Yeah, So thank you for kind of laying

1686
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 11: that out. There are so many questions I have. I

1687
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 11: want to talk about kind of how Saudi Arabia and

1688
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 11: Arab Immirates you've already mentioned, differ on this issue, but

1689
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:06,559
Speaker 11: also like how their differences speak to different visions for

1690
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 11: the region, especially visa the Israel. But also just like

1691
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:12,400
Speaker 11: before we get to that, there's been a lot of

1692
01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 11: reporting about how Saudi Arabia is like secretly really gung

1693
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:18,920
Speaker 11: home about the war and it is encouraging the Trump

1694
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 11: administration to be more aggressive.

1695
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 3: What weight do you put on those reports.

1696
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:25,559
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean those have been around since the start

1697
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:28,959
Speaker 12: of the conflict. I'll preface this while giving a major caveat,

1698
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 12: which is that every week that goes by, we learn

1699
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:33,280
Speaker 12: more about what we didn't know earlier in the war.

1700
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:35,920
Speaker 12: Like you know, we know now that both the UA

1701
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 12: and Saudi Arabia have carried out airstrikes on Iran at

1702
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:41,439
Speaker 12: certain points that they didn't publicize that.

1703
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 5: But I'm broadly skeptical of.

1704
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,640
Speaker 12: Accounts that Saudi Arabia and specifically Crown Prince Mouhammad bin

1705
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:50,040
Speaker 12: Solman advocated for this war, pushed for the war. Saudi

1706
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:53,440
Speaker 12: Arabia and Iran have not always had very great relations,

1707
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:58,440
Speaker 12: but they nominally re established diplomatic ties in twenty twenty.

1708
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:01,679
Speaker 5: Three, and generally, I think so do your AB's views.

1709
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 12: They want to keep the geopolitical peace and the surrounding

1710
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:09,479
Speaker 12: neighborhood because otherwise Saudi Arabia can't get the kind of

1711
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 12: foreign investment or the kind of economic partnerships it needs

1712
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 12: to generate economic growth and employ its citizen population. A

1713
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:20,880
Speaker 12: major political concern, and I think even the United Air

1714
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 12: Memorates prior to this war.

1715
01:38:22,160 --> 01:38:24,160
Speaker 5: Was not pushing for it actively.

1716
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 12: I think these countries also don't want to tell, with

1717
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:28,680
Speaker 12: the possible exception of them, I don't want to tell

1718
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 12: President Trump no directly. So my understanding of things is

1719
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:36,240
Speaker 12: that everything prior to the war was phrased and a

1720
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:39,200
Speaker 12: kind of conditional. We would recommend you don't do this,

1721
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:41,519
Speaker 12: but just make sure if you just think this is

1722
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:44,640
Speaker 12: a good idea that you can militarily defeat around in

1723
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:47,880
Speaker 12: a rather quick and decisive fashion. Of course, that bank

1724
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:51,479
Speaker 12: on the United States is current policymakers having an accurate

1725
01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:54,559
Speaker 12: view of their own capabilities, which seemed to be not

1726
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:58,599
Speaker 12: a correct assumption. But I think that also during the war,

1727
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:01,120
Speaker 12: you had a kind of a panic in different directions,

1728
01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 12: like a belief that, well, I guess if the United

1729
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 12: States has gone to war clearly, then they can solve

1730
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:07,960
Speaker 12: this militarily, right. So I think you had some leaders,

1731
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:10,680
Speaker 12: especially the United Air Memorates, pushing the United States to

1732
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 12: like finish the job, don't leave the conflict in a

1733
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:17,000
Speaker 12: state where it's very clear that the United States can

1734
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:20,599
Speaker 12: militarily force Iron to do certain things. But you also

1735
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:24,479
Speaker 12: haven't kind of secured meaningful concessions from Iran, and that

1736
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 12: I think is I guess one thing that the units

1737
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:29,200
Speaker 12: of the DCC states now again with the possible exception

1738
01:39:29,240 --> 01:39:32,559
Speaker 12: of Oman, is concerned about where they get left if.

1739
01:39:32,479 --> 01:39:33,920
Speaker 5: There is any kind of deal.

1740
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:36,040
Speaker 12: It's very clear that they do not have to see

1741
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:38,880
Speaker 12: at the table in terms of these negotiations. And there's

1742
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:42,320
Speaker 12: certainly a lot of complaints online or in media outputs

1743
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:44,639
Speaker 12: and the Gulf about that fact, but it doesn't change

1744
01:39:44,680 --> 01:39:48,519
Speaker 12: the reality that these are US around negotiations with maybe

1745
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:52,840
Speaker 12: some consultation with Israel, you know, maybe some communication with Saudiriba,

1746
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:53,479
Speaker 12: with the UE.

1747
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:55,360
Speaker 5: But not a ton of consultation of them.

1748
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 11: And just to be clear, they've paid the brunt of

1749
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:02,640
Speaker 11: the price here, and Iran has attacked civilian infrastructure and

1750
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:04,559
Speaker 11: desalination plants and all those things.

1751
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:06,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I mean Iran calculated.

1752
01:40:06,800 --> 01:40:09,600
Speaker 12: I think, well, we could attack Israel, but most of

1753
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:12,320
Speaker 12: the rockets and missiles be shot down Israel's farther away.

1754
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:14,519
Speaker 12: It's harder to hit them with a larger payload, whereas

1755
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:16,719
Speaker 12: you can hit a lot of infrastructure in the Gulf.

1756
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:18,880
Speaker 12: It's been very clear that are on targeted not only

1757
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:22,360
Speaker 12: the US military bases, but also civilian infrastructure in an

1758
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:24,719
Speaker 12: attempt to put a lot of economic pressure on these countries,

1759
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 12: especially the UAE, and even countries that had sought to

1760
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 12: mediate between the conflict there had been more openly critical

1761
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:36,200
Speaker 12: of any US military adventurism. Like Katar basically have their

1762
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:39,040
Speaker 12: entire economy frozen right now because they can get very

1763
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 12: little of the liquid natural gas they produce in or out.

1764
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:44,839
Speaker 12: Same thing with Kwait, same thing with Bahrain. One interesting,

1765
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 12: maybe unintended consequence of this, though, is that some of

1766
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:50,320
Speaker 12: the Goal States are doing better than others economically from this.

1767
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:55,120
Speaker 12: Sauburi and the UAE have made up a significant portion

1768
01:40:55,240 --> 01:40:58,639
Speaker 12: of the ground loss from lost oil exports because they

1769
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:02,400
Speaker 12: can export some oil over land, and Oman is exporting

1770
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 12: a Battle's montroial as before, but at a much higher price,

1771
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 12: so economically or even doing perhaps better. But yeah, these

1772
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:10,640
Speaker 12: are the countries that have primarily hid the price in

1773
01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 12: direct terms, and then by extension, every country that relies

1774
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:16,920
Speaker 12: on their energy supplies is also paying the price in

1775
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:21,680
Speaker 12: terms of higher costs for cooking gas, diesel, fertilizer, and

1776
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:22,080
Speaker 12: so on.

1777
01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:36,240
Speaker 11: Right, really, this is an American Israeli war, even if

1778
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:39,040
Speaker 11: the United States kind of holds the final say, but

1779
01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:41,920
Speaker 11: you know, recently on social media and in a number

1780
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:45,240
Speaker 11: of repeated statements President Trump himself and his administration, I've

1781
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:48,320
Speaker 11: talked about the Abraham Accords, a normalization with Israel, tying

1782
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:51,680
Speaker 11: it into possible outcomes for this war. How do you

1783
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:52,200
Speaker 11: explain that.

1784
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 12: I'm sure your audience is just familiar with the Abraham Accords,

1785
01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 12: but the diplomatic normalization between the Ua, Bahrain and some

1786
01:41:58,160 --> 01:42:00,280
Speaker 12: other countries and Israel back in twenty two twenty.

1787
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:02,599
Speaker 5: I think for President Trump this is motive.

1788
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 12: Talking about this now is motivated by a sense of,

1789
01:42:05,160 --> 01:42:07,360
Speaker 12: you know, there's a real loss of faith and status

1790
01:42:07,360 --> 01:42:09,120
Speaker 12: by having talked about how he was going to have

1791
01:42:09,160 --> 01:42:11,880
Speaker 12: this decisive victory against Iran and then it being a

1792
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 12: disaster on every single front. So I think there's now

1793
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:16,720
Speaker 12: going to be a hunt for like some other kind

1794
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:17,720
Speaker 12: of quick win that.

1795
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:18,360
Speaker 5: He can show.

1796
01:42:18,880 --> 01:42:21,439
Speaker 12: But I think also the lead up to this war

1797
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:25,360
Speaker 12: demonstrated that the Abraham Accords as a framework for US

1798
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 12: policy towards the Middle East was pretty bankrupt in every direction.

1799
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:31,800
Speaker 12: On the one hand, all of the like carrots that

1800
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:34,800
Speaker 12: the United States was supposed to offer to encourage countries

1801
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:38,520
Speaker 12: to normalize ties with Israel and effective.

1802
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:38,920
Speaker 5: We've already been given out.

1803
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 12: So Saudi Arabia was like, here are your concessions that

1804
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:43,480
Speaker 12: we were going to use in order to encourage.

1805
01:42:43,120 --> 01:42:44,200
Speaker 5: You to normalized ties with Israel.

1806
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:45,560
Speaker 12: We can just give those two as long as you

1807
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:47,639
Speaker 12: promised to invest money in the United States. So that's

1808
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 12: already been allowed to happen. At the same time, the

1809
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:54,519
Speaker 12: downside for these countries and normalizing ties with Israel is

1810
01:42:54,880 --> 01:42:58,360
Speaker 12: pretty high. There's nothing that Israeli leaders that president can

1811
01:42:58,439 --> 01:43:01,880
Speaker 12: do to guarantee that there won't be another catastrophic and

1812
01:43:01,960 --> 01:43:06,280
Speaker 12: genocidal war against the Palestinian population. That's something that you know,

1813
01:43:06,320 --> 01:43:09,760
Speaker 12: a Saudi leadership that is dealing with, you know, potentially

1814
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:14,400
Speaker 12: rising unemployment that other countries dealing with ethnic or sectarian

1815
01:43:14,439 --> 01:43:17,400
Speaker 12: divides within their borders, not something they really want to

1816
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:20,240
Speaker 12: take on as well. And I think that the war

1817
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:24,360
Speaker 12: has kind of created divergent perceptions of Israel as well.

1818
01:43:24,400 --> 01:43:28,639
Speaker 12: I think for countries like Saudi Arabia and especially Oman,

1819
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:32,240
Speaker 12: there's a view of Israel. Even for a newer generation

1820
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:36,160
Speaker 12: of leadership like Mohammad Bncelman, who were not particularly opposed

1821
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:38,679
Speaker 12: to a greater role for Israel in the region, greater

1822
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 12: ties with Israel are just now concerned about Israel as

1823
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 12: a chaotic and unreliable partner in the region that will

1824
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:49,439
Speaker 12: throw the security interests of its allies to the wind,

1825
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:52,200
Speaker 12: you know, at the moment's notice. You know, their interpretation

1826
01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:54,400
Speaker 12: of the Abraham Accords is that it did nothing to

1827
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:57,760
Speaker 12: protect the UA and Bahrain from attached by Iran or

1828
01:43:57,800 --> 01:44:01,400
Speaker 12: from getting dragged into in Israeli led or partly Israeli

1829
01:44:01,479 --> 01:44:04,800
Speaker 12: led war. In the other direction, however, the UA itself

1830
01:44:05,080 --> 01:44:07,519
Speaker 12: kind of views its tides with Israel as more important

1831
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:09,519
Speaker 12: than ever. Their view is like, well, this is a

1832
01:44:09,720 --> 01:44:15,080
Speaker 12: region of unreliable actors. Israel has a capable military, even

1833
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:17,479
Speaker 12: if they don't admit it openly. Israel's the only nuclear

1834
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:21,240
Speaker 12: armed actor in the region. And Israel did send what's

1835
01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:23,840
Speaker 12: it called the Iron Dome defense technology to the UAE

1836
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:26,839
Speaker 12: during the conflict. On the one hand, I think where

1837
01:44:26,880 --> 01:44:29,160
Speaker 12: just as we saw during the Biden administration, the Abraham

1838
01:44:29,200 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 12: Accords remains this kind of like cargo culture American foreign

1839
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:35,679
Speaker 12: policy makers, this idea that we'll just say the Abraham

1840
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:38,280
Speaker 12: Accords and it will magically make countries kind of change

1841
01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:41,839
Speaker 12: their foreign policy orientation. But I think the Abraham Accords

1842
01:44:41,880 --> 01:44:47,680
Speaker 12: as a UAE Israeli security economic political alliance in the

1843
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:50,559
Speaker 12: region is stronger than ever and will continue to be

1844
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 12: the case into the future.

1845
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:54,960
Speaker 11: But that Saudi Arabia will not participate in the way

1846
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:56,559
Speaker 11: that the Trump administration assumes.

1847
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think that Saudi Arabias will continue their policy

1848
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 12: they've had ever since October seventh, or at least since

1849
01:45:03,040 --> 01:45:06,200
Speaker 12: roughly thereafter, of saying like, well, we're not ruling out,

1850
01:45:06,400 --> 01:45:10,320
Speaker 12: we just have some conditions in order to move on that.

1851
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 12: And then, you know, I don't think those are unreasonable

1852
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,240
Speaker 12: conditions of making progress towards the Palestinian state, but they

1853
01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:20,200
Speaker 12: are not anything that Nednyahu or even probably any other

1854
01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:22,759
Speaker 12: political coalition that comes to power in Israel is willing

1855
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:24,519
Speaker 12: to even think about.

1856
01:45:25,160 --> 01:45:27,479
Speaker 5: So, you know, I don't really see it happening soon.

1857
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 12: I suppose the thing is so unpredictable that he could

1858
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 12: just like lash out and declare that he's going to

1859
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 12: do something to Saudi Arabia if they don't normalize. But

1860
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:38,640
Speaker 12: then it's a real question like, well, how long is

1861
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:41,200
Speaker 12: he going to sustain that, and like what does he

1862
01:45:41,280 --> 01:45:45,000
Speaker 12: do if Saudi Arabia or Mohammad Bensimon himself like snaps

1863
01:45:45,040 --> 01:45:48,880
Speaker 12: back over this past winter, we saw, for example, as

1864
01:45:48,920 --> 01:45:51,879
Speaker 12: part of that diplomatic riff between the UA and Saudi Arabia,

1865
01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:55,640
Speaker 12: we saw Amaranti backed forces in Yemen make gains, a

1866
01:45:55,640 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 12: lot of commentary online of like oh Mahma beIN, so

1867
01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:00,559
Speaker 12: Man is willing to do anything about this, and then

1868
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:04,639
Speaker 12: ultimately wind up the Saudi Foreign Ministry condemn the UA's

1869
01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:08,799
Speaker 12: role in Yemen, and Saudi forces bond like an Amoralti

1870
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 12: shipment coming into Yemen. So there's also the potential here

1871
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:14,639
Speaker 12: as well, like these are two political systems where power

1872
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:18,679
Speaker 12: is highly personalized around specific individuals, and so if President

1873
01:46:18,680 --> 01:46:20,880
Speaker 12: Trump decids to go down that route, is the possibility

1874
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:24,800
Speaker 12: for this to become a very personalized conflict, right, And.

1875
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:28,160
Speaker 11: I think it's important for listeners to understand the connection

1876
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:33,200
Speaker 11: why the Palestinian issue holds such weight for golf leaders.

1877
01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:36,439
Speaker 11: You mentioned, for example, ethnic and sectarian device in particular

1878
01:46:36,439 --> 01:46:40,360
Speaker 11: countries I'm thinking Bahram or you know, rising unemployment and

1879
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:44,559
Speaker 11: dissent and discontent in places like Saudi Arabia. It's because,

1880
01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:48,799
Speaker 11: either explicitly or implicitly, the Palestinian issue in some parts

1881
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:53,120
Speaker 11: of the Gulf is connected to people's anti regime sentiment,

1882
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:56,439
Speaker 11: which of course the Iranian regime is very good at

1883
01:46:56,720 --> 01:47:00,719
Speaker 11: stoking and exploiting, and so it's not just that they're

1884
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 11: worried about regional instability outside their borders. It's also, like

1885
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 11: you said, there are domestic implications for all these regimes.

1886
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:09,320
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think if we want to turn back the

1887
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:12,760
Speaker 12: clock to like the first Trump administration and even right

1888
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 12: up to October seventh, in places like Saudi Arabia, I

1889
01:47:15,880 --> 01:47:18,480
Speaker 12: think there was a belief that you could just suppress

1890
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:23,360
Speaker 12: people's solidarity with Palestine or that this was like a

1891
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:26,000
Speaker 12: dead issue for most Saudi citizens.

1892
01:47:26,439 --> 01:47:28,560
Speaker 5: But what kind of October seventh.

1893
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:32,280
Speaker 12: Showed or changed was that that sentiment had really never

1894
01:47:32,360 --> 01:47:35,320
Speaker 12: gone away as much as it had seemed, and also

1895
01:47:35,479 --> 01:47:38,240
Speaker 12: that there's now an entirely new generation that has seen

1896
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:41,799
Speaker 12: the atrocities perpetrated in Gaza over the past few years,

1897
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:43,960
Speaker 12: that is now well aware of everything has been done,

1898
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:45,840
Speaker 12: and this is not something you can hide from people

1899
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:48,240
Speaker 12: or pretend that it will go away. And it's even

1900
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:50,840
Speaker 12: harder to do so if people aren't seeing kind of

1901
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:55,080
Speaker 12: rapid economic gains in their own lives, so it becomes

1902
01:47:55,640 --> 01:47:59,360
Speaker 12: yet another thing that, yeah, if you wanted to fault

1903
01:47:59,720 --> 01:48:04,080
Speaker 12: South leaders for kind of weakness and the international stage,

1904
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:07,559
Speaker 12: if you wanted to fault them for not demonstrating political courage,

1905
01:48:07,640 --> 01:48:08,320
Speaker 12: that could be a.

1906
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:09,639
Speaker 5: Cudgel to use against them.

1907
01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:13,439
Speaker 12: So inside Saudi Arabia, the one consistent thing over the

1908
01:48:13,479 --> 01:48:16,720
Speaker 12: past five six seven years is the complete suppression of.

1909
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,360
Speaker 5: Talking about the Palestinian issue.

1910
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:23,280
Speaker 12: Because political authorities are so worried that if people start

1911
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:25,559
Speaker 12: talking about one political issue, maybe they start linking into

1912
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:28,040
Speaker 12: other concerns. At the same time, there has been a

1913
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:32,280
Speaker 12: shift among kind of regime aligned commentators from you if

1914
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:34,679
Speaker 12: this we're back in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, you would

1915
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:37,320
Speaker 12: hear them say, well, Saudi Arabia is now our country

1916
01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:39,760
Speaker 12: that acts in its own national interests. That means we

1917
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:42,320
Speaker 12: don't have to listen to the Palestinian leadership, that's their

1918
01:48:42,320 --> 01:48:45,320
Speaker 12: own concern. Now you hear kind of same tune, like

1919
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:48,160
Speaker 12: different variation, where it's like, because Saudi Arabia is acting

1920
01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:51,680
Speaker 12: in its own national interest, we can decide that we

1921
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,519
Speaker 12: want to act in solidarity with the Palestinian leadership, not

1922
01:48:54,640 --> 01:48:58,200
Speaker 12: just do whatever the West tells us to do. But

1923
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:01,280
Speaker 12: then this leads into I think kind of polarization among

1924
01:49:01,320 --> 01:49:03,639
Speaker 12: some of the Gulf countries because it's the exact opposite

1925
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:07,559
Speaker 12: dynamic for the UAE, or the UAE goes the route

1926
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:11,240
Speaker 12: of presenting itself as closer than ever to the United States,

1927
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:15,719
Speaker 12: very aware that they can use Saudi skepticism towards Israel

1928
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 12: as something to attack Saudi Arabia in US commentary and

1929
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:23,639
Speaker 12: US media markets. And then even if the country seemed

1930
01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:26,960
Speaker 12: to be able to patch these differences up from time

1931
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:30,280
Speaker 12: to time, it's going to keep driving them apart as well.

1932
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:43,680
Speaker 11: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but during the

1933
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:48,439
Speaker 11: first Trump administration, the propaganda around Palestinians emerging from the

1934
01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:51,759
Speaker 11: UAE was extremely vehement.

1935
01:49:52,160 --> 01:49:54,759
Speaker 4: Let's say, there was so much.

1936
01:49:54,600 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 11: Rhetoric coming out of UAE government officials and associated influencers

1937
01:50:01,360 --> 01:50:03,960
Speaker 11: and things like that that was attempting to kind of

1938
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:08,599
Speaker 11: change the image of the Palestinian to an Arab audience.

1939
01:50:08,640 --> 01:50:11,960
Speaker 11: And even though you're right that they are clinging more

1940
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:14,720
Speaker 11: than ever to the Abraham Accords. Again, correct me if

1941
01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:16,720
Speaker 11: I'm wrong, but it seems to me that like they

1942
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:19,680
Speaker 11: can't do that as much anymore. I'm not seeing as

1943
01:50:19,720 --> 01:50:21,800
Speaker 11: much of that kind of rhetoric and kind of anti

1944
01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:24,040
Speaker 11: Palestinian racism that I used to see.

1945
01:50:24,280 --> 01:50:27,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, and it used to be that you could walk

1946
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 12: this like I don't want to call it a fine line,

1947
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:31,559
Speaker 12: but you could play this game. I'm more familiar with

1948
01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:33,360
Speaker 12: this in the Saudi case, but the rhetoric would go.

1949
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 12: Of course Audi Davia stands with the Saudi issue, but

1950
01:50:36,040 --> 01:50:38,759
Speaker 12: the Polsitatian leadership, they would basically adopt the same tropes

1951
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:40,439
Speaker 12: we were familiar with the United States, like the pols

1952
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:42,879
Speaker 12: Dating leadership never missed an opportunity, to miss an opportunity,

1953
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:44,599
Speaker 12: or they would just a direct translation of that.

1954
01:50:44,960 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, it's much harder, like.

1955
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:49,920
Speaker 12: You can't get away with that anymore because the pushback

1956
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:54,919
Speaker 12: online would be incredibly intense. And likewise, even from the UAE,

1957
01:50:55,040 --> 01:50:58,960
Speaker 12: we see continued coordination with Israel. But it's interesting how

1958
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:03,439
Speaker 12: the UAE denies doesn't confirm certain things, so bombing Iran

1959
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:06,160
Speaker 12: during the war, the UA Foreign Ministry kind of there's

1960
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:07,880
Speaker 12: a wink, wink, nudge nudge, like, well, look at our

1961
01:51:07,920 --> 01:51:09,280
Speaker 12: policies where we said we were to.

1962
01:51:09,240 --> 01:51:11,360
Speaker 5: Tell you if we were attacked. Jarirown conclusions.

1963
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:14,080
Speaker 12: Whereas when it comes to Benjamin Natanya, who like visiting

1964
01:51:14,120 --> 01:51:16,040
Speaker 12: the UAE either like absolutely.

1965
01:51:15,640 --> 01:51:16,599
Speaker 5: Not, this is false news.

1966
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:17,320
Speaker 3: It did not happen.

1967
01:51:17,680 --> 01:51:18,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And I.

1968
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:22,799
Speaker 12: Think that points to the extent to which especially Natanya,

1969
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:26,559
Speaker 12: who has become extremely toxic and hard to separate from that,

1970
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:29,160
Speaker 12: and that even though I don't think the UA is

1971
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:31,719
Speaker 12: going to be hosting any like major Palestinian solidarity events

1972
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:35,600
Speaker 12: anytime soon, at the same time, they're not like, you know,

1973
01:51:35,640 --> 01:51:38,200
Speaker 12: this is not like a warm piece in terms of

1974
01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:41,599
Speaker 12: how they're approaching israelis either. I'm pretty sure the UA

1975
01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:45,920
Speaker 12: even condemned the recent law like basically allowing executions of.

1976
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,479
Speaker 3: The death penalty here you will specifically.

1977
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:50,880
Speaker 12: Define to basically be Palestinians on the West Bank. Also

1978
01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 12: condemned Israel's actions in Lebanon as well. So it's become

1979
01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:59,440
Speaker 12: harder to mount the kind of media campaigns against Palestinians,

1980
01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 12: I think, partly because they backfire, and then partly in

1981
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 12: recognition that like this was done for years and years,

1982
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:09,519
Speaker 12: and then ultimately what distinguishes Saudi Arabia from the UA

1983
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:12,439
Speaker 12: is not that their citizen publics have different views about

1984
01:52:12,439 --> 01:52:15,519
Speaker 12: the Palestinians, but just that in the UAE you can

1985
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:20,400
Speaker 12: surveil coerce and bribe your citizen population so much better

1986
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:22,920
Speaker 12: than in Saudi Arabia. It's like, yeah, sorry to be

1987
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:24,439
Speaker 12: kind of crass about it, but like the Jews just

1988
01:52:24,439 --> 01:52:27,680
Speaker 12: doesn't worth the squeeze in terms of the Saudi monarchy relative.

1989
01:52:27,280 --> 01:52:30,240
Speaker 5: To at least being in this kind.

1990
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:33,799
Speaker 12: Of middle path where they're maybe not pushing the United

1991
01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:36,799
Speaker 12: States too much for Palestinian statehood, but are like doing

1992
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:40,000
Speaker 12: at least the bare minimum to keep I guess the

1993
01:52:40,040 --> 01:52:41,759
Speaker 12: idea of a two state solution alive.

1994
01:52:42,280 --> 01:52:45,560
Speaker 11: Yeah, and to stay adhering to the Arapeace initiative in

1995
01:52:45,880 --> 01:52:49,280
Speaker 11: some capacity. What's kind of the takeaway do you think

1996
01:52:49,400 --> 01:52:52,679
Speaker 11: for all of these countries in the aftermath of this war,

1997
01:52:53,080 --> 01:52:56,000
Speaker 11: do you foresee a change in their positions visa in

1998
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:57,240
Speaker 11: the United States in particular.

1999
01:52:57,800 --> 01:52:59,760
Speaker 12: For years and years analysts of the Gulf imen talking

2000
01:52:59,760 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 12: about like these states hedging, and I think in one direction,

2001
01:53:03,160 --> 01:53:05,600
Speaker 12: this war show that like most of that amounted to

2002
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:09,599
Speaker 12: just trying to get more concessions from the United States.

2003
01:53:09,600 --> 01:53:11,479
Speaker 12: Like you had a couple of European countries show up,

2004
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:14,280
Speaker 12: you had like Pakistan get involved a little bit, but

2005
01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:17,599
Speaker 12: their strategies for the course of this war still revolved

2006
01:53:17,640 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 12: around trying to influence us thinking you frame how they

2007
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:23,760
Speaker 12: were viewed in the United States. But I do think

2008
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:27,120
Speaker 12: it is going to trigger changes down the line. Like

2009
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:30,400
Speaker 12: we saw Saudi Arabia normalized ties with itr on four

2010
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:34,479
Speaker 12: years after the United States failed to intervene after Iranian

2011
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:36,360
Speaker 12: line groups attacked Saudi oil fields.

2012
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:37,840
Speaker 5: I think something similar here.

2013
01:53:37,880 --> 01:53:40,080
Speaker 12: What we're going to see developments three or four years

2014
01:53:40,120 --> 01:53:42,080
Speaker 12: down the line that have been cooking in the background

2015
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:45,040
Speaker 12: as a result of what has happened in twenty twenty six.

2016
01:53:45,360 --> 01:53:47,000
Speaker 12: I think we're starting to see some of that now.

2017
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:49,640
Speaker 12: And it's not going to be like, oh, we're going

2018
01:53:49,720 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 12: to get a Chinese military base in the Gulf. It's

2019
01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:55,040
Speaker 12: going to be other things, like we're seeing Saudi Arabia

2020
01:53:55,160 --> 01:53:57,160
Speaker 12: try to work with what it used as the other

2021
01:53:57,439 --> 01:54:01,800
Speaker 12: regional middle powers that can trust and work with Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan.

2022
01:54:02,280 --> 01:54:06,240
Speaker 12: The UAE meanwhile is trying to double or triple down

2023
01:54:06,400 --> 01:54:10,120
Speaker 12: on its direct security ties with Israel. But I think

2024
01:54:10,439 --> 01:54:12,200
Speaker 12: the way these ghostates are going to react is going

2025
01:54:12,240 --> 01:54:15,880
Speaker 12: to figure out, how can we shape the diplomas here

2026
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:18,400
Speaker 12: on the region, how can we shape our own security

2027
01:54:18,479 --> 01:54:21,519
Speaker 12: in ways that don't rely on the United States, but

2028
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:24,880
Speaker 12: aren't like how to put it, I think in Washington, DC,

2029
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:27,160
Speaker 12: because of the obsession with Chinese influence in the world,

2030
01:54:27,160 --> 01:54:29,160
Speaker 12: there's always this belief of like, oh, like, if not us,

2031
01:54:29,240 --> 01:54:31,360
Speaker 12: then it will be like the Chinese will be involved.

2032
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:33,640
Speaker 12: And I think the reality is going to look very different.

2033
01:54:33,680 --> 01:54:35,440
Speaker 12: I don't think China wants to get involved in a

2034
01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:37,839
Speaker 12: security fashion in the Gulf, but there are other countries

2035
01:54:37,880 --> 01:54:41,200
Speaker 12: that have an interest in some degree of peaceful economic

2036
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:44,960
Speaker 12: development or some degree of like maximalized security, and that's

2037
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:48,240
Speaker 12: going to be the future of these state security relations.

2038
01:54:48,680 --> 01:54:51,560
Speaker 11: Well, thank you so much, Andrew. I really appreciate your expertise.

2039
01:54:51,960 --> 01:54:55,240
Speaker 11: I'll link your profile at Carnegie in the show notes

2040
01:54:55,480 --> 01:54:57,320
Speaker 11: as well as given that we talked about kind of

2041
01:54:57,320 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 11: the past Indian question in relation to some of these

2042
01:55:00,800 --> 01:55:04,320
Speaker 11: other issues domestically in the Gulf States, I'll also link

2043
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:06,640
Speaker 11: to some of my own research on this topic. So

2044
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 11: thank you so much.

2045
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:09,400
Speaker 5: Thanks thanks for having me.

2046
01:55:23,200 --> 01:55:25,400
Speaker 3: Garrison thinks that's good.

2047
01:55:25,960 --> 01:55:28,320
Speaker 10: That's good. If we were brave, if.

2048
01:55:28,240 --> 01:55:31,839
Speaker 3: We will new Halloween, Cotima lotch that's not happening.

2049
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:35,600
Speaker 10: A would this is it could happen here? Executive disorder,

2050
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:38,200
Speaker 10: our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House,

2051
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:40,480
Speaker 10: the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm

2052
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:43,879
Speaker 10: Garrison Davis today and joined by Mia Wong, James Stout,

2053
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:47,200
Speaker 10: and Robert Evans Eh. This episode recovering the week of

2054
01:55:47,400 --> 01:55:51,920
Speaker 10: June third to June tenth. James, some small news items

2055
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:52,800
Speaker 10: to start.

2056
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:55,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, many small things this week. So new details have

2057
01:55:56,080 --> 01:56:00,240
Speaker 3: emerged about the Santa Rosa Island fire. If you remember,

2058
01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 3: the fire was started by mariner. At first, it was

2059
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:05,440
Speaker 3: reported that the mariner had started the fire by firing

2060
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:09,640
Speaker 3: the stress flares. Now appears the mariner's engine caught fire,

2061
01:56:09,880 --> 01:56:13,120
Speaker 3: starting the fire. Oh, then he fired stress flares. But

2062
01:56:13,240 --> 01:56:13,840
Speaker 3: there's more.

2063
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:17,520
Speaker 2: Okay, how many fires did this guy have involved in

2064
01:56:17,560 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 2: his boating?

2065
01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:21,360
Speaker 4: Well? He ran into the island next door a week

2066
01:56:21,480 --> 01:56:25,840
Speaker 4: before okay, oh boy, and was towed by coastguard to

2067
01:56:25,960 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 4: their harbor, where they found that he didn't have a

2068
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:30,760
Speaker 4: number of items you have.

2069
01:56:30,680 --> 01:56:33,160
Speaker 3: To have on his boat for safety equipment reasons. Right,

2070
01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:35,800
Speaker 3: So they pounded his boat for six days until a

2071
01:56:35,840 --> 01:56:40,000
Speaker 3: good Samaritan donated those items. He then left the harbor

2072
01:56:40,200 --> 01:56:42,600
Speaker 3: and crashed into the next island. I think that good

2073
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:46,160
Speaker 3: Samaritan made a mistake. I think we can agree it's

2074
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:50,160
Speaker 3: not the man now. Yeah, I think doing anything to

2075
01:56:50,280 --> 01:56:52,600
Speaker 3: enable this man to re float on the Seventh Seas

2076
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 3: not be in the sea. Yeah, this guy listened to

2077
01:56:56,000 --> 01:57:00,280
Speaker 3: too much Jimmy Buffett. Yeah. Unfortunately, like this seems to

2078
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:01,800
Speaker 3: be one of those situations. He bought the boat for

2079
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:10,760
Speaker 3: a single dollar. We generally don't give advice on this podcast,

2080
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:18,840
Speaker 3: but I will say you couldn't. It's not uncommon, it's

2081
01:57:18,840 --> 01:57:21,280
Speaker 3: out of California for people to buy boats in order

2082
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:23,920
Speaker 3: to find a cheaper place to live. Yes, of course,

2083
01:57:23,960 --> 01:57:27,040
Speaker 3: things like slip fees, registraction. People don't realizee things. Add that,

2084
01:57:27,320 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 3: I have worked on some old diesel engines on these boats,

2085
01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:32,280
Speaker 3: they're not particularly straight I'm not a great doing some

2086
01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:36,240
Speaker 3: characters begin with, but they're not particularly straightforward. And this

2087
01:57:37,240 --> 01:57:40,520
Speaker 3: results in what I think we have seen here, which

2088
01:57:40,560 --> 01:57:45,760
Speaker 3: is a delta between confidence and ability on the seven season.

2089
01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:48,839
Speaker 3: This isn't a boat that one should be sending alone,

2090
01:57:49,240 --> 01:57:51,040
Speaker 3: much less so they only bought a couple of years

2091
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:54,800
Speaker 3: ago for a single American dollar. No, I've ported to

2092
01:57:54,840 --> 01:57:58,000
Speaker 3: destroy a large gradatory pine which only exists there and

2093
01:57:58,760 --> 01:58:01,320
Speaker 3: here so yeah, I know, be careful that there would

2094
01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:05,600
Speaker 3: be pirates moving on now. I's reported it's nineteenth in

2095
01:58:05,680 --> 01:58:11,480
Speaker 3: custody death this year when correctional centers Storgia. Yeah, continuing

2096
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:15,120
Speaker 3: to set all the worst records. A court has vacated

2097
01:58:15,160 --> 01:58:18,320
Speaker 3: the president's one hundred thousand dollars h one b visa

2098
01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:21,440
Speaker 3: tacks cases brought by California al But it's more than

2099
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:24,080
Speaker 3: a dozen states that will be impacted by the tax.

2100
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:28,080
Speaker 3: This is a good one. Gregory Bavino appears to be

2101
01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 3: eyeing a run of the presidency. Sure, this is interesting,

2102
01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:36,880
Speaker 3: So he launched an experimental website. Yeah why not? Why fuck?

2103
01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:40,080
Speaker 3: Like his website at Bavino twenty twenty eight dot com.

2104
01:58:40,360 --> 01:58:45,960
Speaker 3: The campaign appears to have originated from Jacob Angles. Angles

2105
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:48,840
Speaker 3: is a right where he's kind of rogersterone prodigy They

2106
01:58:48,840 --> 01:58:52,640
Speaker 3: broke ways. Angles was appears to be charged for his

2107
01:58:52,680 --> 01:58:58,840
Speaker 3: methamphetamin possession earlier this year. Oh wow, it was Engles

2108
01:58:58,920 --> 01:59:02,000
Speaker 3: who was first post this house Bathno. Twenty twenty eight

2109
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:05,879
Speaker 3: thing in Bovino's replies and Angele's now pissed is listed

2110
01:59:05,960 --> 01:59:09,640
Speaker 3: on the Fno twenty twenty eight dot com. Oh god.

2111
01:59:10,280 --> 01:59:13,400
Speaker 2: In this house Bavino thing. He's just he watched too

2112
01:59:13,480 --> 01:59:16,320
Speaker 2: much Game of Thrones, right, That's that's why he's saying that.

2113
01:59:16,600 --> 01:59:18,600
Speaker 3: I think so because I looked into it.

2114
01:59:18,840 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 2: That's as far as I can tell, it's him trying

2115
01:59:20,480 --> 01:59:23,880
Speaker 2: to do like a nightly like with a new nightly order.

2116
01:59:23,920 --> 01:59:26,560
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's part of his ess cosplays how

2117
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:29,400
Speaker 2: I kind of interpreted it because he clearly is obsessed

2118
01:59:29,440 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 2: with the fucking shut staffel and they were like a

2119
01:59:31,640 --> 01:59:34,680
Speaker 2: nightly order. And that's I get those vibes from Greg.

2120
01:59:35,440 --> 01:59:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like, and if you look at the website right

2121
01:59:37,480 --> 01:59:40,880
Speaker 3: like you gelt like, he's prominently featured whearing it's now

2122
01:59:40,920 --> 01:59:44,200
Speaker 3: in famous greatcoat trench cut whenever you want to call

2123
01:59:44,280 --> 01:59:47,720
Speaker 3: that fucking coat. Yes, I don't know if Baveno, like Brevino,

2124
01:59:48,320 --> 01:59:50,000
Speaker 3: maybe he's just trying to run this as far as

2125
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:52,520
Speaker 3: it'll go, Right, he just lost his job, so maybe

2126
01:59:52,560 --> 01:59:56,280
Speaker 3: he's looking for like something new to do. Oh sure, Like,

2127
01:59:56,440 --> 02:00:00,040
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how serious Biffrito is with this. You

2128
02:00:00,200 --> 02:00:03,200
Speaker 3: think he's he's definitely trying to continue to I guess

2129
02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:07,760
Speaker 3: influence the national discussion. I guess well in the internet.

2130
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:11,040
Speaker 2: I mean, he's hanging out with the fucking Martin Selmer

2131
02:00:11,200 --> 02:00:14,360
Speaker 2: over in Portugal. He's hang out with at like straight

2132
02:00:14,440 --> 02:00:17,880
Speaker 2: up like christ Church mass shooting affiliated Nazis, you know,

2133
02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:19,920
Speaker 2: like he's going for it.

2134
02:00:20,440 --> 02:00:24,080
Speaker 3: Everyone should just scroll down to the foundest section of

2135
02:00:24,080 --> 02:00:24,800
Speaker 3: this website.

2136
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:27,920
Speaker 4: Okay, hold on before before we do that, this link

2137
02:00:27,960 --> 02:00:30,800
Speaker 4: has now appeared in our group chat. That is the

2138
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:34,720
Speaker 4: most Nazi ass like this profile picture thing I have

2139
02:00:34,840 --> 02:00:41,080
Speaker 4: seen in a long time. It's like a Wolfenstein yeah, right,

2140
02:00:41,360 --> 02:00:43,360
Speaker 4: but like in the same way that, like they're also

2141
02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:48,800
Speaker 4: clearly aping from like communist aesthetics, like background, the way

2142
02:00:48,840 --> 02:00:51,440
Speaker 4: he's kind of framed, is this like weird? Yeah, this

2143
02:00:51,440 --> 02:00:52,520
Speaker 4: is it kind of West German.

2144
02:00:52,960 --> 02:00:56,600
Speaker 3: I would almost say it's like generic propaganda now, which

2145
02:00:56,640 --> 02:00:58,680
Speaker 3: is sort of like a mix of like West Germans,

2146
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:02,920
Speaker 3: Eastern or easterman us SNRT, like the the use of

2147
02:01:03,080 --> 02:01:05,280
Speaker 3: bad the use of the olive branches, the.

2148
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:09,960
Speaker 4: Sun rays from his body. Yeah, it's just kind of.

2149
02:01:09,960 --> 02:01:15,120
Speaker 3: Like generic propaganda. House Bavino Men Fight generated image. Right,

2150
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:15,640
Speaker 3: So it is.

2151
02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:17,880
Speaker 10: Based found the way the text is formed, it does

2152
02:01:17,920 --> 02:01:19,400
Speaker 10: appear to be an AA generated.

2153
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:22,760
Speaker 3: It's no property framed right. The framing on the left

2154
02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:24,160
Speaker 3: and right is thicker than the framing at the top.

2155
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:26,520
Speaker 3: There is no framing at the bottom like xametrao.

2156
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:29,880
Speaker 2: Shit, oh my god, No, I think we're all missing something,

2157
02:01:29,880 --> 02:01:36,280
Speaker 2: which is that right underneath the big propaganda image, tiny text,

2158
02:01:36,560 --> 02:01:40,640
Speaker 2: the words in very tiny text, almost hidden. Bavino knows

2159
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:43,120
Speaker 2: what America needs. America's men.

2160
02:01:44,360 --> 02:01:48,800
Speaker 3: It's not a quotation marks, but no, the slogan of

2161
02:01:48,840 --> 02:01:52,040
Speaker 3: the campaign is men fight back. Yeah cool?

2162
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:54,400
Speaker 2: Or the slogan of House Bavino. It's a little unclear.

2163
02:01:54,640 --> 02:01:58,520
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Maybe maybe it's housed Bavino. Maybe he's struggling

2164
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:01,160
Speaker 3: to make rent having lost his job at the Boyd Patrol,

2165
02:02:01,280 --> 02:02:04,040
Speaker 3: and this is setting up a pot to pay his rent.

2166
02:02:04,520 --> 02:02:08,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, incredible. Uh wow, the ab Founders section really.

2167
02:02:08,880 --> 02:02:10,360
Speaker 4: Oh Michael, Okay, I have scroll.

2168
02:02:10,440 --> 02:02:14,600
Speaker 10: I have scrolled down to the our founder section and there.

2169
02:02:14,480 --> 02:02:16,800
Speaker 3: Is an incredible specimen.

2170
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:21,240
Speaker 2: The a Bold National Strategy part is really upsetting to me. Yeah,

2171
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:25,160
Speaker 2: because he's calling himself the Commander and capitalizing the v

2172
02:02:25,280 --> 02:02:28,040
Speaker 2: N the sea in a very like here's the ways

2173
02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:32,760
Speaker 2: following the Commander's maximum effectiveness and quelling the foreign hordes

2174
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:36,040
Speaker 2: that have subsumed our nation's cities, both large and small.

2175
02:02:36,320 --> 02:02:39,320
Speaker 2: The American people witnessed what true leadership powered by a

2176
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:43,040
Speaker 2: warrior mindset actually looks like. Is the Commander endeavored to

2177
02:02:43,080 --> 02:02:48,360
Speaker 2: restore order and national sovereignty? That is one sentence, second sentence.

2178
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:51,360
Speaker 2: America as a whole has already fallen to the grasps

2179
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 2: of the foreign global, one world hellscape ushered in by

2180
02:02:54,120 --> 02:02:55,520
Speaker 2: Barack Hussein Obama.

2181
02:02:55,600 --> 02:02:56,720
Speaker 3: However, we believe that.

2182
02:02:56,720 --> 02:02:59,000
Speaker 2: The Commander can not only usher in the great restoration

2183
02:02:59,040 --> 02:03:01,400
Speaker 2: of America, but also cement the continuity of a strong

2184
02:03:01,400 --> 02:03:04,000
Speaker 2: and sovereign the United States that will last a millennia, a.

2185
02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:04,840
Speaker 3: Thousand year reich.

2186
02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:07,280
Speaker 2: In other words, And that also was one sentence. That

2187
02:03:07,400 --> 02:03:09,680
Speaker 2: is two sentences that I just read. Yeah, I need

2188
02:03:09,720 --> 02:03:10,480
Speaker 2: to be clear.

2189
02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:13,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I become paying. A couple of Gmail addresses are

2190
02:03:13,840 --> 02:03:14,560
Speaker 3: using here.

2191
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:18,840
Speaker 2: Some really small font by the way, curioistically right, Yeah,

2192
02:03:19,080 --> 02:03:21,960
Speaker 2: Harry inconsistently, This looks like they had Ai lay out

2193
02:03:21,960 --> 02:03:23,000
Speaker 2: his website too.

2194
02:03:23,480 --> 02:03:25,840
Speaker 3: But they have one woman on their founders page and

2195
02:03:25,920 --> 02:03:27,880
Speaker 3: like everyone else here in size like twenty and she's

2196
02:03:27,880 --> 02:03:28,800
Speaker 3: like size eleven.

2197
02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:29,920
Speaker 11: Yeah.

2198
02:03:29,960 --> 02:03:31,880
Speaker 2: Like the set will have you know, images of him

2199
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:33,520
Speaker 2: or of his post where you can see his name,

2200
02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:37,240
Speaker 2: but it refers to him only as the commander. So

2201
02:03:37,360 --> 02:03:39,680
Speaker 2: like there's a post of Greg's where it like, it's

2202
02:03:39,720 --> 02:03:41,640
Speaker 2: the post that he made at the airport where he's

2203
02:03:41,640 --> 02:03:43,200
Speaker 2: like pointing at the flight to Newark when he was

2204
02:03:43,200 --> 02:03:44,800
Speaker 2: on his way to Portugal, being like, should I just

2205
02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:47,640
Speaker 2: handle it myself and you know, go to Jersey to

2206
02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:50,440
Speaker 2: deal with this? And above that is perhaps I must

2207
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:53,880
Speaker 2: resolve this personally as a quote the commander challenging the

2208
02:03:53,880 --> 02:03:56,760
Speaker 2: inertia of the open borders bureaucracy and response to Like

2209
02:03:56,840 --> 02:04:00,680
Speaker 2: it's written like Greg Bovino became the over dictator of

2210
02:04:00,720 --> 02:04:03,160
Speaker 2: America and this is a history book sixty years later,

2211
02:04:03,320 --> 02:04:05,640
Speaker 2: Like that's the way his website is written.

2212
02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:07,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's incredibly low effort.

2213
02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite concerning, and he really has a high opinion

2214
02:04:11,760 --> 02:04:14,640
Speaker 2: of himself. Yeah, I gotta, I gotta say that.

2215
02:04:15,120 --> 02:04:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do wonder how much this is just angles

2216
02:04:17,480 --> 02:04:18,720
Speaker 3: just writing this like as a fan.

2217
02:04:18,920 --> 02:04:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder how much he had to do with this.

2218
02:04:21,200 --> 02:04:23,920
Speaker 2: But this does not seem like he had nothing to

2219
02:04:23,920 --> 02:04:25,520
Speaker 2: do with it. I will say that based on my

2220
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:26,879
Speaker 2: knowledge of Greg Bavino.

2221
02:04:27,560 --> 02:04:30,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's shared it on his own social media.

2222
02:04:30,920 --> 02:04:31,600
Speaker 5: Great.

2223
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:35,200
Speaker 10: In other news, the months long fight over ICE and

2224
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:39,280
Speaker 10: CBP funding has come to an end. In a two

2225
02:04:39,400 --> 02:04:43,440
Speaker 10: hundred and fourteen to two hundred and twelve vote on Tuesday,

2226
02:04:44,120 --> 02:04:48,600
Speaker 10: the House has passed a reconciliation bill funding ICE and CBP.

2227
02:04:49,240 --> 02:04:52,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the so called Secure America Act. Right,

2228
02:04:53,040 --> 02:04:55,560
Speaker 3: it'll get them seventy billion dollars.

2229
02:04:56,040 --> 02:04:58,160
Speaker 4: So if we look at that combined with the Big

2230
02:04:58,160 --> 02:05:01,320
Speaker 4: Beautiful Bill, it's about two hundred forty billion allocated to

2231
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:02,200
Speaker 4: them in a single year.

2232
02:05:02,320 --> 02:05:04,920
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean they have to spend it all this year, right.

2233
02:05:05,240 --> 02:05:08,080
Speaker 3: The Secure America Act gives them a window up to

2234
02:05:08,200 --> 02:05:12,160
Speaker 3: September thirty of twenty twenty nine, with no particular allocations

2235
02:05:12,200 --> 02:05:15,200
Speaker 3: for any given year. To me, that strikes me as

2236
02:05:15,200 --> 02:05:18,360
Speaker 3: a hedge against funding after the midterms. I think that's

2237
02:05:18,400 --> 02:05:20,600
Speaker 3: what that's about. Also notable, the Charason said that they

2238
02:05:20,680 --> 02:05:23,200
Speaker 3: use reconciliation to allow simple majority in the Senate.

2239
02:05:23,520 --> 02:05:26,480
Speaker 10: We went over the details of a previous version of

2240
02:05:26,520 --> 02:05:28,960
Speaker 10: this bill a few weeks ago. This money is going

2241
02:05:29,000 --> 02:05:32,000
Speaker 10: to go towards hiring and arming new officers, hiring more

2242
02:05:32,040 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 10: administrative staff, attorneys, and this is all going to be

2243
02:05:35,080 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 10: towards immigration enforcement, as well as the money allocated for

2244
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:43,480
Speaker 10: acquiring new border technology. The one billion dollars of quote

2245
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:48,480
Speaker 10: unquote security funding for Trump's ballroom was removed from the

2246
02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:52,960
Speaker 10: bill by the Senate last week. Two other short things

2247
02:05:53,000 --> 02:05:57,280
Speaker 10: I want to mention. Yesterday a Fedral grand jury indicted

2248
02:05:57,360 --> 02:06:00,960
Speaker 10: two people in relation to stop copp City protests and

2249
02:06:01,320 --> 02:06:06,840
Speaker 10: alleged crimes in twenty twenty two. And Wednesday morning, the

2250
02:06:07,080 --> 02:06:12,320
Speaker 10: FBI rated about seven people in Michigan related to pro

2251
02:06:12,400 --> 02:06:16,320
Speaker 10: Palestine protests at the University of Michigan and protests against

2252
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:20,240
Speaker 10: University of Michigan officials. As of recording like this just

2253
02:06:20,280 --> 02:06:23,480
Speaker 10: happened a few hours ago and relates to an indictment

2254
02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:27,880
Speaker 10: that was unsealed this morning as well, which charges eight people.

2255
02:06:28,360 --> 02:06:30,360
Speaker 10: Will cover this more in detail in the future.

2256
02:06:30,840 --> 02:06:32,480
Speaker 4: Bring to do one more quick segment here, and then

2257
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:35,400
Speaker 4: when we return, we're going to talk about the programs

2258
02:06:35,400 --> 02:06:36,040
Speaker 4: in Belfast.

2259
02:06:36,760 --> 02:06:37,000
Speaker 2: Yay.

2260
02:06:38,400 --> 02:06:43,400
Speaker 10: Some updates related to primary elections in Maine. Grand Plattner

2261
02:06:43,400 --> 02:06:45,920
Speaker 10: has won the Democratic primary with about seventy two percent

2262
02:06:45,920 --> 02:06:49,520
Speaker 10: of the vote. The governor's race is too close to call,

2263
02:06:49,680 --> 02:06:52,360
Speaker 10: with the ranked choice voting yet to be tallied. But

2264
02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:55,280
Speaker 10: I'm keeping my eye on the Sanders and labor back

2265
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:59,480
Speaker 10: to candidate Troy Jackson, who campaigned with Platner. Jackson is

2266
02:06:59,480 --> 02:07:04,160
Speaker 10: about nine thousand votes behind the pre ranked choice vote

2267
02:07:04,200 --> 02:07:09,200
Speaker 10: candidate doctor ni av Shaw. After a week of counting,

2268
02:07:09,720 --> 02:07:13,440
Speaker 10: we have more definitive results from the elections in California

2269
02:07:13,560 --> 02:07:14,160
Speaker 10: last week.

2270
02:07:14,800 --> 02:07:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, which a lot of people are saying is an

2271
02:07:17,160 --> 02:07:21,080
Speaker 2: unforgivable cup of democracy that they counted all the votes

2272
02:07:21,280 --> 02:07:24,320
Speaker 2: and it took them a while. But yeah, gares, please

2273
02:07:24,920 --> 02:07:29,160
Speaker 2: continue and we'll talk about the chaos that is being

2274
02:07:29,600 --> 02:07:31,960
Speaker 2: justified by the fact that this took a while to account.

2275
02:07:32,400 --> 02:07:34,880
Speaker 10: Tom Steyer will not be making it onto the ballot

2276
02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:38,280
Speaker 10: this coming November. With ninety one percent of the votes counted,

2277
02:07:38,680 --> 02:07:43,520
Speaker 10: Steyer has earned one million, nine hundred and twenty eight thousand,

2278
02:07:43,640 --> 02:07:47,520
Speaker 10: three hundred and eighty one votes, or twenty two point

2279
02:07:47,600 --> 02:07:52,280
Speaker 10: five percent. Republican Steve Hilton, former Fox News host, has

2280
02:07:52,400 --> 02:07:55,960
Speaker 10: Edgedtyer out by about two hundred thousand votes, earning twenty

2281
02:07:56,000 --> 02:07:59,480
Speaker 10: five percent of the vote and advancing to the general election,

2282
02:08:00,040 --> 02:08:03,640
Speaker 10: where he will go up against liberal Democrat Javier Besserra

2283
02:08:04,040 --> 02:08:07,960
Speaker 10: with twenty seven point nine percent of the vote. Katie

2284
02:08:08,000 --> 02:08:12,600
Speaker 10: Porter won just under four hundred thousand votes Karen Bass

2285
02:08:12,640 --> 02:08:16,040
Speaker 10: still leads the LA mayoral primary with ninety five percent

2286
02:08:16,040 --> 02:08:19,400
Speaker 10: of the votes counted. Bass has nearly three hundred thousand votes,

2287
02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:24,400
Speaker 10: winning thirty four point three percent. Progressive Nythia Rahman has

2288
02:08:24,680 --> 02:08:29,280
Speaker 10: moved into second place with twenty nine percent, beating Republican

2289
02:08:29,320 --> 02:08:32,120
Speaker 10: Spencer Pratt with twenty five point five percent. So the

2290
02:08:32,160 --> 02:08:37,080
Speaker 10: general election we'll see Raman go up against Bass. Reality

2291
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:40,440
Speaker 10: TV star Spencer Pratt was up in the early vote,

2292
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:44,520
Speaker 10: but as Ramond started to pull ahead, Trump and others

2293
02:08:44,560 --> 02:08:49,560
Speaker 10: began claiming the election was being stolen from Republicans. Pratt

2294
02:08:49,640 --> 02:08:55,080
Speaker 10: has insinuated that Raman's lead came from LA's homeless population

2295
02:08:55,680 --> 02:08:58,560
Speaker 10: and must grow oute that quote. The level of fraud

2296
02:08:58,640 --> 02:09:00,160
Speaker 10: here is mind blowing.

2297
02:09:01,600 --> 02:09:03,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, so homeless people can vote.

2298
02:09:03,560 --> 02:09:07,200
Speaker 3: Like yeah, provided they are US citizens.

2299
02:09:07,280 --> 02:09:11,960
Speaker 2: Like yes, yes, it's it's all lies, yeah, I mean,

2300
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:14,200
Speaker 2: And a lot of what's even what's being reported in

2301
02:09:14,200 --> 02:09:17,360
Speaker 2: the Washington Post is straight up lies. Like they just

2302
02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:20,600
Speaker 2: published an article today that includes this line. And again

2303
02:09:20,920 --> 02:09:23,760
Speaker 2: the theme of the article is like, well, you know,

2304
02:09:24,120 --> 02:09:27,320
Speaker 2: obviously this election wasn't stolen, but the fact that it's

2305
02:09:27,360 --> 02:09:30,200
Speaker 2: taken so long is really a problem. You can't actually

2306
02:09:30,200 --> 02:09:33,680
Speaker 2: blame all these people if they if they think it's suspicious.

2307
02:09:34,160 --> 02:09:36,200
Speaker 3: This is not evidence of a rigged election, but it

2308
02:09:36,240 --> 02:09:39,200
Speaker 3: creates fertile ground for conspiracy theories to take root. It

2309
02:09:39,200 --> 02:09:42,440
Speaker 3: didn't help that Ramen tearfully conceded last Tuesday. But it's

2310
02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:45,040
Speaker 3: irresponsible for prett to intimate on social media. So we

2311
02:09:45,080 --> 02:09:47,480
Speaker 3: did not be stolen. She didn't tearfully concede.

2312
02:09:47,480 --> 02:09:48,120
Speaker 4: It did not happen.

2313
02:09:48,200 --> 02:09:51,760
Speaker 2: That never happened. That Washington Post lied, like that's just

2314
02:09:51,880 --> 02:09:54,120
Speaker 2: in a post article. That's just a lie by the

2315
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,240
Speaker 2: Washington Post, like an intentional lie, I would.

2316
02:09:57,080 --> 02:10:00,839
Speaker 3: Are incredible, I guess to just going today's toe, people understand,

2317
02:10:00,920 --> 02:10:04,960
Speaker 3: like you know, like I've written for broadsheet newspapers, several people.

2318
02:10:05,040 --> 02:10:07,160
Speaker 3: This is not one person fucking up, right, This is

2319
02:10:07,200 --> 02:10:09,720
Speaker 3: an institutional fuck up. This was a choice. Yeah, it

2320
02:10:10,080 --> 02:10:11,800
Speaker 3: was a choice to get this wrong. The person whose

2321
02:10:11,840 --> 02:10:14,280
Speaker 3: name is on the byline wrote that, Yes, an editor

2322
02:10:14,320 --> 02:10:16,840
Speaker 3: then edited, a copy editor then edited it, and then

2323
02:10:16,880 --> 02:10:18,560
Speaker 3: somebody laid it out for the website.

2324
02:10:18,640 --> 02:10:18,880
Speaker 5: Yep.

2325
02:10:19,280 --> 02:10:20,840
Speaker 2: And you know this if you're listening and your work

2326
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:23,680
Speaker 2: for the Post, you know this. You know that your editors,

2327
02:10:23,720 --> 02:10:26,440
Speaker 2: your bosses and your colleagues chose to lie and are

2328
02:10:26,520 --> 02:10:29,040
Speaker 2: choosing to continue to lie and spread lies through their publication.

2329
02:10:29,200 --> 02:10:31,400
Speaker 2: You're aware of this if you weren't there still.

2330
02:10:32,840 --> 02:10:33,240
Speaker 3: Anyway.

2331
02:10:33,320 --> 02:10:37,280
Speaker 10: And Benny Johnson, Tempoole or Ingram and Sean Hannity are

2332
02:10:37,320 --> 02:10:41,360
Speaker 10: alleged that Democrats stole the election, and Trump has continued

2333
02:10:41,400 --> 02:10:44,480
Speaker 10: to make claims that the election was rigged. Quote here

2334
02:10:44,520 --> 02:10:47,560
Speaker 10: we go with the very late and massive numbers of

2335
02:10:47,720 --> 02:10:48,839
Speaker 10: mail in ballots.

2336
02:10:49,000 --> 02:10:53,800
Speaker 3: You no shit truthed? Sorry, yeah, man, it's convenient.

2337
02:10:53,360 --> 02:10:58,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, eternal twenty twenty Trump truth earlier this week quote

2338
02:10:58,640 --> 02:11:00,760
Speaker 10: not possible for Spencer Pratt? Do you have lost the

2339
02:11:00,920 --> 02:11:04,040
Speaker 10: l A runoffs after the big lead he had Third

2340
02:11:04,160 --> 02:11:05,080
Speaker 10: world nation.

2341
02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:07,800
Speaker 3: On quote do you understand what the word nation means?

2342
02:11:08,840 --> 02:11:08,880
Speaker 9: No?

2343
02:11:10,320 --> 02:11:12,720
Speaker 3: I didn't think they They tell these truth.

2344
02:11:12,800 --> 02:11:15,800
Speaker 10: I don't think he understands how election works, obviously, or

2345
02:11:15,840 --> 02:11:18,400
Speaker 10: he does and he's just saying what he needs to

2346
02:11:18,400 --> 02:11:22,160
Speaker 10: say here. Notably, on Sunday, Trump stormed out of an

2347
02:11:22,200 --> 02:11:25,280
Speaker 10: interview on Meet the Press when asked if he had

2348
02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:28,680
Speaker 10: any evidence of quote unquote cheating in California.

2349
02:11:28,920 --> 02:11:30,440
Speaker 5: The election was rigged.

2350
02:11:30,600 --> 02:11:33,440
Speaker 7: It was a dirty election. This is happening again right

2351
02:11:33,440 --> 02:11:39,680
Speaker 7: now in Californa. Now in California, right now, it's looking.

2352
02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:41,080
Speaker 7: Look at what's happening in California.

2353
02:11:41,760 --> 02:11:44,800
Speaker 4: It's in California.

2354
02:11:44,920 --> 02:11:47,760
Speaker 7: It's now, they're not there. They're dropping fast because it's

2355
02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:51,240
Speaker 7: a rigged election. Let me tell you, it's four days

2356
02:11:51,480 --> 02:11:53,520
Speaker 7: and they aren't even close to coming up there.

2357
02:11:54,360 --> 02:11:55,160
Speaker 3: Why they're doing that.

2358
02:11:55,240 --> 02:11:56,640
Speaker 7: Because they're cheating on the election.

2359
02:11:56,800 --> 02:11:58,040
Speaker 3: There's what do you have evidence?

2360
02:11:59,040 --> 02:12:01,080
Speaker 10: I have to do his Look all you have to

2361
02:12:01,080 --> 02:12:03,200
Speaker 10: do is look is he in front of a green

2362
02:12:03,360 --> 02:12:07,120
Speaker 10: screen that depicts a johnde At tractor and plan to

2363
02:12:07,640 --> 02:12:10,440
Speaker 10: know they are in Wisconsin in some kind of barn

2364
02:12:10,600 --> 02:12:13,880
Speaker 10: and it's raining outside in this barn with the John

2365
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:16,560
Speaker 10: Deere tractor and like haybells. It's an interesting kind of

2366
02:12:16,600 --> 02:12:18,120
Speaker 10: like real world set they have.

2367
02:12:18,480 --> 02:12:21,360
Speaker 3: Yeah okay, and the focus is very weird.

2368
02:12:21,120 --> 02:12:22,520
Speaker 4: Like the Yeah.

2369
02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:26,120
Speaker 10: Trump later called vote counting in California quote unquote crooked,

2370
02:12:26,840 --> 02:12:28,480
Speaker 10: just like how the press is crooked.

2371
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:31,440
Speaker 4: Quote you're either crooked or you're stupid.

2372
02:12:31,640 --> 02:12:35,320
Speaker 10: You know that these elections are rigged, Your network knows

2373
02:12:35,360 --> 02:12:36,320
Speaker 10: that they're rigged.

2374
02:12:36,680 --> 02:12:38,440
Speaker 4: You were like a third world country.

2375
02:12:38,840 --> 02:12:42,000
Speaker 7: Your elections are crooked, and you're crooked and least the

2376
02:12:42,080 --> 02:12:47,040
Speaker 7: press is crooked, show is ABC and CBS and CNN.

2377
02:12:47,760 --> 02:12:50,920
Speaker 7: You're one sided crooked network. Let's call it quicks because

2378
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:51,600
Speaker 7: I've had enough.

2379
02:12:51,840 --> 02:12:52,760
Speaker 4: Thank you, Darling.

2380
02:12:52,680 --> 02:12:53,560
Speaker 5: Goods the president.

2381
02:12:53,640 --> 02:12:56,160
Speaker 10: Let's please I travel all the way to Wisconsin.

2382
02:12:57,520 --> 02:12:58,760
Speaker 3: God, that's embarrassing.

2383
02:12:59,560 --> 02:13:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, just being mean to him, be rude, yell at him,

2384
02:13:02,680 --> 02:13:04,960
Speaker 2: call him a fucking liar, scream at him. Stop doing

2385
02:13:04,960 --> 02:13:08,560
Speaker 2: this bullshit like I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for that.

2386
02:13:08,640 --> 02:13:11,600
Speaker 4: Like people booed him, dreamed the national anthem at a

2387
02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:13,400
Speaker 4: Knicks game. You can fucking do this.

2388
02:13:13,480 --> 02:13:15,680
Speaker 2: Scream at him, call him a piece of shit, like

2389
02:13:16,240 --> 02:13:19,080
Speaker 2: you know, you're not getting anything out of just letting

2390
02:13:19,120 --> 02:13:21,600
Speaker 2: him talk, paull him a liar, shout over him. Yeah,

2391
02:13:21,640 --> 02:13:24,240
Speaker 2: stop particular, Yeah, yeah, fucking cowards.

2392
02:13:24,560 --> 02:13:27,400
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, and yeah, yeah, you're right.

2393
02:13:27,440 --> 02:13:30,560
Speaker 10: I think we should definitely pay attention to the fact

2394
02:13:30,640 --> 02:13:32,840
Speaker 10: that Trump did cause the Knicks to lose that game.

2395
02:13:32,920 --> 02:13:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah he did. Did he did?

2396
02:13:34,440 --> 02:13:36,840
Speaker 2: And honestly, it's that's what I like about him because

2397
02:13:36,840 --> 02:13:39,400
Speaker 2: it continues James.

2398
02:13:38,720 --> 02:13:39,400
Speaker 4: Streak of.

2399
02:13:40,920 --> 02:13:43,920
Speaker 13: House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked about these claims on

2400
02:13:43,960 --> 02:13:47,800
Speaker 13: Monday and said that the vote counting in California quote

2401
02:13:47,840 --> 02:13:51,480
Speaker 13: unquote stinks to high heaven, and that the schemes are

2402
02:13:51,520 --> 02:13:56,760
Speaker 13: so quote unquote diabolical that it's impossible to prove election ragging.

2403
02:13:57,040 --> 02:13:57,920
Speaker 12: The present keeps.

2404
02:13:57,720 --> 02:14:00,920
Speaker 4: Saying that there's election fraud in the California marraw is.

2405
02:14:00,960 --> 02:14:02,520
Speaker 5: What evidence is there to prove them?

2406
02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:03,840
Speaker 3: You tell me, Manu.

2407
02:14:04,320 --> 02:14:07,120
Speaker 14: They are counting votes weeks after the election. We have

2408
02:14:07,400 --> 02:14:11,320
Speaker 14: entire nations with huge populations, like India that can count

2409
02:14:11,360 --> 02:14:12,000
Speaker 14: their votes.

2410
02:14:11,760 --> 02:14:14,360
Speaker 5: In twenty four to four saying it's rigged, like the president.

2411
02:14:13,960 --> 02:14:15,720
Speaker 14: I'm not saying it's rigged. I'm saying it stinks to

2412
02:14:15,800 --> 02:14:19,400
Speaker 14: high heaven, and everybody knows that. Let's let's let's remove

2413
02:14:19,440 --> 02:14:23,520
Speaker 14: the appearance of impropriety. Let's have what a concept, Let's

2414
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:26,840
Speaker 14: have votes on an election the day of the election.

2415
02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:28,840
Speaker 14: That's what many states are able to do. I think

2416
02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:30,880
Speaker 14: California is playing around with us.

2417
02:14:30,920 --> 02:14:33,240
Speaker 4: But what evidence is there to prove that there is ringing?

2418
02:14:33,360 --> 02:14:36,160
Speaker 14: I don't Some of these efforts are so diabolical and

2419
02:14:36,240 --> 02:14:38,760
Speaker 14: so far upstream it is impossible to prove. But I

2420
02:14:38,760 --> 02:14:41,360
Speaker 14: think everybody knows instinctively something is wrong here.

2421
02:14:41,920 --> 02:14:44,080
Speaker 10: So this is I think very clearly a preview of

2422
02:14:44,120 --> 02:14:46,320
Speaker 10: what's to come in the interim election. Yeah, for sure,

2423
02:14:47,200 --> 02:14:49,960
Speaker 10: and they are kind of laying this out here. It's

2424
02:14:50,080 --> 02:14:52,640
Speaker 10: of course impossible to prove, but we all know that

2425
02:14:52,680 --> 02:14:53,240
Speaker 10: it's wrong.

2426
02:14:53,760 --> 02:14:54,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2427
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:56,200
Speaker 10: This is going to be every election for the rest

2428
02:14:56,200 --> 02:14:56,800
Speaker 10: of our life.

2429
02:14:56,880 --> 02:14:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, but there's going to be anything that

2430
02:14:59,600 --> 02:15:04,400
Speaker 2: happened that does not meet the increasingly fanciful version of

2431
02:15:04,440 --> 02:15:07,960
Speaker 2: reality they have to believe. Right, it's not just elections,

2432
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:12,120
Speaker 2: it's literally any fact that like is inconvenient. There's any

2433
02:15:12,240 --> 02:15:15,200
Speaker 2: storm that shouldn't have happened based on when they think

2434
02:15:15,240 --> 02:15:18,480
Speaker 2: a storm should happen, right, Yeah, this is just life now.

2435
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's necessary to create the version of reality that

2436
02:15:22,760 --> 02:15:23,520
Speaker 3: they're existing in.

2437
02:15:23,680 --> 02:15:26,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, we're gonna go on break and then discuss the programs.

2438
02:15:26,840 --> 02:15:45,520
Speaker 6: In Northern Ireland, we are the fat ooh yeah.

2439
02:15:45,960 --> 02:15:49,920
Speaker 4: On Tuesday July ninth, This is the day before we

2440
02:15:49,960 --> 02:15:52,800
Speaker 4: are recording this, which is important because we don't know

2441
02:15:52,880 --> 02:15:55,320
Speaker 4: how that's going to proceed from here when you're listening

2442
02:15:55,320 --> 02:15:59,560
Speaker 4: to it. But on June ninth, there were widespread attacks

2443
02:15:59,640 --> 02:16:02,320
Speaker 4: on the homes of non white people in Ireland in

2444
02:16:02,400 --> 02:16:05,280
Speaker 4: what I and many others have described as a poke

2445
02:16:05,400 --> 02:16:09,760
Speaker 4: rom mass assailants kicked down doors, forced on white people

2446
02:16:09,760 --> 02:16:12,920
Speaker 4: from their homes, and lit houses and cars on fire.

2447
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:16,640
Speaker 4: People were being stopped in the streets. I'm going to

2448
02:16:16,760 --> 02:16:20,600
Speaker 4: read a little bit from a report from Henel Aufman,

2449
02:16:20,680 --> 02:16:24,720
Speaker 4: who was on the scene reporting on what was going on. Quote,

2450
02:16:25,760 --> 02:16:28,600
Speaker 4: as a woman from an ethnic minority background looked down

2451
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:31,040
Speaker 4: from an upstairs window, some of the men rushed the

2452
02:16:31,080 --> 02:16:34,400
Speaker 4: front door and broke it down, with the attack thick

2453
02:16:34,440 --> 02:16:38,360
Speaker 4: with smoke from fireworks. They attacked the downstairs windows with

2454
02:16:38,440 --> 02:16:41,280
Speaker 4: bricks as they stormed the property. Some claim to be

2455
02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:45,800
Speaker 4: quote liberating it. Graffiti nearby demanded quote local homes for

2456
02:16:45,920 --> 02:16:50,279
Speaker 4: local people. A woman in the crowd said to her friend,

2457
02:16:50,400 --> 02:16:52,600
Speaker 4: quote there's wee girls inside.

2458
02:16:53,520 --> 02:16:54,360
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2459
02:16:54,840 --> 02:17:01,320
Speaker 4: It is an extremely bleak and worrying event. The nominal

2460
02:17:01,440 --> 02:17:05,359
Speaker 4: cause of this program was a video of a stabbing

2461
02:17:05,400 --> 02:17:07,959
Speaker 4: in Belfast that has gone viral on social media, which

2462
02:17:08,000 --> 02:17:12,800
Speaker 4: has been amplified by writing forces both in Ireland, the

2463
02:17:12,920 --> 02:17:16,680
Speaker 4: UK and across the world, probably most famously by Elon Musk.

2464
02:17:16,680 --> 02:17:19,160
Speaker 4: We will touch on that more in a second, but

2465
02:17:19,680 --> 02:17:22,400
Speaker 4: before we say anything about the broader context, I think

2466
02:17:22,400 --> 02:17:26,480
Speaker 4: it's important to state two things here. One Ireland and also,

2467
02:17:26,560 --> 02:17:29,640
Speaker 4: particularly the factions of Irish politics are going to be

2468
02:17:29,680 --> 02:17:32,800
Speaker 4: getting to here has had racism problems long before any

2469
02:17:32,840 --> 02:17:35,960
Speaker 4: of these events. Famously, you know, if you want to

2470
02:17:35,959 --> 02:17:38,160
Speaker 4: look at the most immediate stuff in the recent past,

2471
02:17:39,120 --> 02:17:42,880
Speaker 4: exactly one year ago today in Northern Ireland there was

2472
02:17:43,320 --> 02:17:47,680
Speaker 4: a smaller race riot. There was a smaller scale version

2473
02:17:47,840 --> 02:17:51,240
Speaker 4: of the thing we're seeing here, with less damage, but

2474
02:17:51,320 --> 02:17:53,760
Speaker 4: still you know, absolutely terrifying effects.

2475
02:17:54,120 --> 02:17:57,800
Speaker 2: This very much rhymes with the race riots that we

2476
02:17:57,840 --> 02:17:59,800
Speaker 2: saw in the UK a couple of years ago. Yeah,

2477
02:18:00,240 --> 02:18:05,480
Speaker 2: like a similar, similar deal, similar motivation, mobs attacking hotel

2478
02:18:05,560 --> 02:18:08,360
Speaker 2: that point is more focused on hotels that refugees were

2479
02:18:08,360 --> 02:18:08,840
Speaker 2: believed at.

2480
02:18:08,840 --> 02:18:11,039
Speaker 3: But yeah, like you were saying, we basically the same idea.

2481
02:18:11,720 --> 02:18:14,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, these are white mobs. It's also I think important

2482
02:18:14,600 --> 02:18:17,720
Speaker 4: to note, on top of just the general sort of

2483
02:18:17,800 --> 02:18:21,720
Speaker 4: racism of virus society, this program is largely taking place

2484
02:18:21,760 --> 02:18:25,200
Speaker 4: in loyalist neighborhoods. You know, these are places with very

2485
02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:28,640
Speaker 4: very long standing far right paramilitaries, with very close ties

2486
02:18:28,680 --> 02:18:31,120
Speaker 4: to the police. A lot of the people in the

2487
02:18:31,160 --> 02:18:34,440
Speaker 4: streets are you know, sort of parts of old loyalist

2488
02:18:34,480 --> 02:18:39,400
Speaker 4: paramilitary and criminal networks. These are in many cases like

2489
02:18:39,520 --> 02:18:41,840
Speaker 4: believed to be the same networks that you know, we're

2490
02:18:41,840 --> 02:18:44,959
Speaker 4: doing shit during the troubles and have been active in

2491
02:18:45,040 --> 02:18:49,680
Speaker 4: various forms throughout the occupation of Ireland and deportation's. Belfast

2492
02:18:49,720 --> 02:18:52,560
Speaker 4: notes that leaked emails from police after the twenty twenty

2493
02:18:52,600 --> 02:18:56,400
Speaker 4: five riots they are from the riots themselves, and they said, quote,

2494
02:18:56,640 --> 02:19:00,600
Speaker 4: it is important for you to understand our expectations. Unless

2495
02:19:00,600 --> 02:19:03,680
Speaker 4: there is an obvious article to issue, we do not

2496
02:19:03,879 --> 02:19:08,240
Speaker 4: expect you to expose yourself to significant unnecessary risk. So

2497
02:19:08,480 --> 02:19:11,240
Speaker 4: what that in effect is saying is that this is

2498
02:19:11,440 --> 02:19:14,400
Speaker 4: in effect a standown order. If you don't if you

2499
02:19:14,440 --> 02:19:15,600
Speaker 4: think that anything would be even.

2500
02:19:15,600 --> 02:19:16,920
Speaker 3: Let the mobs see what they're gonna do.

2501
02:19:17,120 --> 02:19:19,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And that's just the stuff. This is from

2502
02:19:19,920 --> 02:19:22,480
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty five riots. Presumably similar orders went out

2503
02:19:22,560 --> 02:19:24,960
Speaker 4: during these riots. And that's just the stuff that they

2504
02:19:25,320 --> 02:19:28,800
Speaker 4: sent via email, right, that that has been leaked out.

2505
02:19:29,440 --> 02:19:33,400
Speaker 4: The police, again very notably, did very very little while

2506
02:19:33,400 --> 02:19:35,400
Speaker 4: all of this was happening, while people's houses were being

2507
02:19:35,400 --> 02:19:37,520
Speaker 4: burned down, while people were being dragged out of their homes.

2508
02:19:38,480 --> 02:19:42,640
Speaker 4: These attacks also come after weeks of far right discourse

2509
02:19:42,840 --> 02:19:48,119
Speaker 4: in the UK about like the killings of two white

2510
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:51,960
Speaker 4: men by non white men. Yeah, I mean on the BBC,

2511
02:19:52,400 --> 02:19:54,600
Speaker 4: they are having debates about whether there is a quote

2512
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:58,880
Speaker 4: two tiered police system, which you know, when I initially

2513
02:19:58,920 --> 02:20:01,240
Speaker 4: saw that, I was confused, because, yeah, two tier police

2514
02:20:01,240 --> 02:20:03,760
Speaker 4: system has been the way that you know, like anti

2515
02:20:03,840 --> 02:20:06,000
Speaker 4: anti police violence activists have talked about the way the

2516
02:20:06,000 --> 02:20:08,040
Speaker 4: police system functions. Where there is a way the police

2517
02:20:08,080 --> 02:20:09,920
Speaker 4: functions for white people, which is that it treats them stiff,

2518
02:20:09,959 --> 02:20:11,400
Speaker 4: cant better, and then there's the way it works for

2519
02:20:11,440 --> 02:20:13,920
Speaker 4: non white people. The far right has flipped this on

2520
02:20:13,959 --> 02:20:16,039
Speaker 4: his head and is now arguing to an extent that

2521
02:20:16,080 --> 02:20:19,280
Speaker 4: he's now sort of national discourse on the fucking BBC

2522
02:20:19,920 --> 02:20:21,960
Speaker 4: is arguing that there is a two tier police system

2523
02:20:21,959 --> 02:20:23,520
Speaker 4: where non white people are a lot off the hook

2524
02:20:23,640 --> 02:20:27,480
Speaker 4: for their crimes and where white people aren't protected by

2525
02:20:27,480 --> 02:20:32,080
Speaker 4: the law. This is nonsense, but it has been spreading rapidly,

2526
02:20:32,120 --> 02:20:35,680
Speaker 4: pushed by far right actors like Tommy Robinson and of

2527
02:20:35,720 --> 02:20:37,840
Speaker 4: course Elon Musk. Yeah.

2528
02:20:38,240 --> 02:20:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Musk specifically has been really pushing Yeah, and he

2529
02:20:42,120 --> 02:20:44,400
Speaker 2: was he was a big figure too in what happened

2530
02:20:44,400 --> 02:20:45,520
Speaker 2: in the UK a bit ago.

2531
02:20:45,840 --> 02:20:47,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the twenty twenty five Irish riots too.

2532
02:20:48,520 --> 02:20:49,360
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

2533
02:20:49,400 --> 02:20:53,160
Speaker 2: And he's been NonStop pushing and making posts, making claims

2534
02:20:53,200 --> 02:20:55,240
Speaker 2: to the extent of like we need to the only

2535
02:20:55,240 --> 02:20:57,519
Speaker 2: way things will get better is if we keep protesting.

2536
02:20:57,600 --> 02:21:00,640
Speaker 2: You know, this has to be handled like forcefully, like

2537
02:21:00,640 --> 02:21:01,720
Speaker 2: that sort of shit, like.

2538
02:21:01,640 --> 02:21:02,160
Speaker 3: He has been.

2539
02:21:02,879 --> 02:21:05,600
Speaker 2: He has been basically devoting, as far as I can tell,

2540
02:21:05,680 --> 02:21:07,560
Speaker 2: the week that he is about to have and or

2541
02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:10,080
Speaker 2: that he is having his IPO, devoting the majority of

2542
02:21:10,120 --> 02:21:11,680
Speaker 2: his time to in siding up agram.

2543
02:21:12,080 --> 02:21:13,360
Speaker 3: Yes, seems to be.

2544
02:21:14,080 --> 02:21:17,400
Speaker 4: Yeah. He retweeted a post from Restore Britain, which is

2545
02:21:17,440 --> 02:21:22,480
Speaker 4: a somehow even further right just yeah, straight up effectively

2546
02:21:22,520 --> 02:21:27,760
Speaker 4: fascist party, even further right than the already horrifying Reform Party,

2547
02:21:28,680 --> 02:21:33,440
Speaker 4: saying quote, do not make peace with evil, destroy it. Yeah.

2548
02:21:33,680 --> 02:21:35,600
Speaker 4: There's another one where he's like, either you fight back

2549
02:21:35,680 --> 02:21:38,360
Speaker 4: or you die. That's what it comes down to. There's

2550
02:21:38,400 --> 02:21:42,440
Speaker 4: been a lot of comparisons between Elon Musk and Radio Rwanda,

2551
02:21:42,560 --> 02:21:45,359
Speaker 4: which is a radio outlet that was broadcasting calls for THEOND.

2552
02:21:45,520 --> 02:21:49,760
Speaker 3: Just well, and that's that's not accurate really, but you're

2553
02:21:49,800 --> 02:21:55,160
Speaker 3: referring to ATLM right, Radio Television Lib. Yes, that RADIOOND

2554
02:21:55,240 --> 02:21:58,039
Speaker 3: is a different thing. Oh sorry, am I like rady

2555
02:21:58,120 --> 02:22:01,600
Speaker 3: Render is a currently existing corporation, so we need to

2556
02:22:01,640 --> 02:22:03,480
Speaker 3: be extremely clear in our terminology.

2557
02:22:04,240 --> 02:22:06,080
Speaker 2: Let me be very clear here because I actually had

2558
02:22:06,080 --> 02:22:09,440
Speaker 2: this pulled up for this. OURTLM was the radio station

2559
02:22:10,080 --> 02:22:13,320
Speaker 2: that is often accused of helping to coordinate or some

2560
02:22:13,320 --> 02:22:16,200
Speaker 2: people will just say stood up and cited the genocide.

2561
02:22:16,600 --> 02:22:19,080
Speaker 2: It was owned by a guy named Felician Kabuga, who

2562
02:22:19,120 --> 02:22:23,400
Speaker 2: was an extremely wealthy Rwandan man and who was personally

2563
02:22:23,520 --> 02:22:26,039
Speaker 2: very much involved in like wanting to.

2564
02:22:26,040 --> 02:22:27,160
Speaker 3: Push for the genocide.

2565
02:22:27,320 --> 02:22:31,160
Speaker 2: RTLM regularly called Tucci's cockroaches and encouraged people to cut

2566
02:22:31,240 --> 02:22:34,640
Speaker 2: down the tall trees. However, there are also good reasons

2567
02:22:34,640 --> 02:22:37,840
Speaker 2: why this is not quite as direct as it seems.

2568
02:22:38,560 --> 02:22:42,760
Speaker 2: H TLM did not coordinate attacks, they did not plan

2569
02:22:43,040 --> 02:22:47,840
Speaker 2: specific actions, and analysis in the modern day has shown

2570
02:22:47,879 --> 02:22:50,040
Speaker 2: that a lot of the worst massacres, in fact, the

2571
02:22:50,080 --> 02:22:52,640
Speaker 2: majority of the worst massacers, did not have any direct

2572
02:22:52,680 --> 02:22:57,040
Speaker 2: relation to our TLM. Now, RTLM's propaganda and broadcasts played

2573
02:22:57,080 --> 02:23:00,240
Speaker 2: a role in the genocide and incited and continued to

2574
02:23:00,280 --> 02:23:04,040
Speaker 2: like escalate the violence. But it's not exactly I would argue.

2575
02:23:04,040 --> 02:23:06,640
Speaker 2: It looks like and we Also, we don't have perfect

2576
02:23:06,680 --> 02:23:10,800
Speaker 2: analysis of what's just happened in Northern Ireland, so maybe

2577
02:23:10,800 --> 02:23:13,080
Speaker 2: this will prove to me wrong. It looks like what

2578
02:23:13,200 --> 02:23:16,800
Speaker 2: Musk is doing has more of a direct positive effect. Yeah,

2579
02:23:16,800 --> 02:23:18,960
Speaker 2: but that's also not clear to me at the moment.

2580
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:21,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, my estimation so far. But again, like this

2581
02:23:21,800 --> 02:23:23,600
Speaker 4: is changing my estimation so far is that I think

2582
02:23:23,640 --> 02:23:26,440
Speaker 4: it is actually closer to it in that I think

2583
02:23:26,520 --> 02:23:29,640
Speaker 4: I think even if Musk isn't there, something like this happens, sure,

2584
02:23:29,720 --> 02:23:32,360
Speaker 4: because I think a lot of this is mobilization through

2585
02:23:32,920 --> 02:23:35,440
Speaker 4: like very local Irish political forces in these sort of

2586
02:23:35,520 --> 02:23:36,240
Speaker 4: unionist networks.

2587
02:23:36,240 --> 02:23:39,280
Speaker 2: But it's also really difficult to say just because all

2588
02:23:39,320 --> 02:23:44,240
Speaker 2: of those networks have been heavily influenced by Musk's X

2589
02:23:44,360 --> 02:23:45,560
Speaker 2: in the lasts two.

2590
02:23:45,720 --> 02:23:49,359
Speaker 3: So it's yeah, I don't know how you want to Yeah.

2591
02:23:49,120 --> 02:23:52,359
Speaker 10: And it's feeding off of like a decade of intensifying

2592
02:23:52,400 --> 02:23:56,480
Speaker 10: anti immigrant sentiment across the UK, including Ireland and Northern Ireland.

2593
02:23:56,680 --> 02:23:57,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2594
02:23:57,080 --> 02:23:59,080
Speaker 2: And this is also something that people will point out

2595
02:23:59,080 --> 02:24:01,800
Speaker 2: when you're talking Aboutanda and RTLM, which is that like,

2596
02:24:01,840 --> 02:24:04,359
Speaker 2: well as much blame as you want to give RTLM

2597
02:24:04,400 --> 02:24:07,600
Speaker 2: and some of these other media organizations that unquestionably had

2598
02:24:07,680 --> 02:24:12,279
Speaker 2: some role in motivating and fueling what happened.

2599
02:24:12,400 --> 02:24:12,800
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

2600
02:24:13,080 --> 02:24:16,360
Speaker 2: I mean the root of the Rwandan genocide comes from

2601
02:24:16,440 --> 02:24:18,600
Speaker 2: the period of colonialism when the Tutsies were like a

2602
02:24:18,640 --> 02:24:20,840
Speaker 2: favored group of people within the country, which is what

2603
02:24:21,080 --> 02:24:25,080
Speaker 2: started a lot of these like underlying hatreds, right, is

2604
02:24:25,200 --> 02:24:28,160
Speaker 2: the way in which the colonial power played these different

2605
02:24:28,160 --> 02:24:29,080
Speaker 2: groups off of each other.

2606
02:24:29,480 --> 02:24:31,879
Speaker 3: So anyway, whatever, Yeah, this is always the case.

2607
02:24:31,920 --> 02:24:34,120
Speaker 2: It's always going to be deeper than some guy has

2608
02:24:34,120 --> 02:24:35,120
Speaker 2: a media outlet.

2609
02:24:35,240 --> 02:24:37,039
Speaker 3: Right, that doesn't mean the media al it is not

2610
02:24:37,560 --> 02:24:40,920
Speaker 3: involved in what's Yeah, it's the same in Rwanda, right,

2611
02:24:40,920 --> 02:24:44,560
Speaker 3: like we had the intrahamway like right, like they existed

2612
02:24:44,640 --> 02:24:47,400
Speaker 3: and they give it distinct from RTLM. But like the

2613
02:24:47,560 --> 02:24:50,840
Speaker 3: environment that allows those two things to happen. Nothing's monocles.

2614
02:24:50,959 --> 02:24:52,720
Speaker 3: People want to do this in history.

2615
02:24:52,760 --> 02:24:55,280
Speaker 2: Now, and it's the difficult thing of both. It's very

2616
02:24:55,320 --> 02:24:57,640
Speaker 2: important to point out when something like this rhymes was

2617
02:24:57,760 --> 02:25:01,199
Speaker 2: something that happened in a jitocide they killed a million people.

2618
02:25:01,560 --> 02:25:03,879
Speaker 2: And also the more you learn about stuff like this

2619
02:25:03,920 --> 02:25:06,560
Speaker 2: when people make those comparisons, the more learned people are like,

2620
02:25:06,600 --> 02:25:07,800
Speaker 2: well that's not quite right.

2621
02:25:07,840 --> 02:25:10,160
Speaker 3: Actually, this is it was a little different then, you know.

2622
02:25:11,480 --> 02:25:15,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Genocybe Memorial Museum in Kigati is the most

2623
02:25:15,840 --> 02:25:16,440
Speaker 4: moving museum.

2624
02:25:16,520 --> 02:25:18,920
Speaker 3: If it's stud in my life, it's incredible. If you

2625
02:25:18,920 --> 02:25:20,720
Speaker 3: have the giant table in Chuka. We need to do

2626
02:25:20,800 --> 02:25:25,400
Speaker 3: more inmbastards on Rwanda. But yeah, anyway, wonderful country.

2627
02:25:26,000 --> 02:25:28,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. The one thing I also want to mention sort

2628
02:25:28,320 --> 02:25:30,240
Speaker 4: of different closing here, is that you know, again, like

2629
02:25:30,240 --> 02:25:31,680
Speaker 4: part of the reason this is happening, part of the

2630
02:25:31,720 --> 02:25:35,040
Speaker 4: reason it's been a lot of you know, these of

2631
02:25:35,320 --> 02:25:37,840
Speaker 4: these unionist networks. Part of the reason it's happening the

2632
02:25:37,840 --> 02:25:39,760
Speaker 4: way that it is is that this is a very

2633
02:25:40,080 --> 02:25:43,680
Speaker 4: very old white supremacist project, going back like you know,

2634
02:25:43,800 --> 02:25:46,800
Speaker 4: like through the British occupation of Ireland, right, and it's

2635
02:25:46,840 --> 02:25:49,800
Speaker 4: a project that's been aligned with like the Randouins were

2636
02:25:49,840 --> 02:25:53,440
Speaker 4: once British in the sense of like like the you know,

2637
02:25:53,920 --> 02:25:56,119
Speaker 4: this this is carrying on the sort of long imperial

2638
02:25:56,160 --> 02:25:59,160
Speaker 4: British tradition is like the world one of the world's

2639
02:25:59,320 --> 02:26:02,400
Speaker 4: largest and most blooding and ruthless bite supremacist organizations.

2640
02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:05,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about this in the meeting we were

2641
02:26:05,680 --> 02:26:10,720
Speaker 3: having beforehand, but like loyalists in Northern Ireland have regularly

2642
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:13,840
Speaker 3: made a habit of particularly in the seventies and eighties,

2643
02:26:13,959 --> 02:26:18,240
Speaker 3: displaying Rhodesia flags, in the nineties apartheid South Africa flags.

2644
02:26:18,480 --> 02:26:21,800
Speaker 3: It's very common. Flags like you open.

2645
02:26:22,320 --> 02:26:22,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2646
02:26:23,160 --> 02:26:26,920
Speaker 3: Partly is a direct response to the internationalism of republicanism.

2647
02:26:26,959 --> 02:26:28,880
Speaker 3: They just decided to align with the worst people on

2648
02:26:28,920 --> 02:26:29,400
Speaker 3: the planet.

2649
02:26:29,640 --> 02:26:29,879
Speaker 5: Yep.

2650
02:26:30,320 --> 02:26:32,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, there'll be another episode of Up on this Monday

2651
02:26:32,640 --> 02:26:36,040
Speaker 4: that goes into more detail and we'll have more information

2652
02:26:36,080 --> 02:26:39,080
Speaker 4: as it comes out. This is again a rapidly training situation.

2653
02:26:39,160 --> 02:26:40,000
Speaker 4: There might be more.

2654
02:26:40,160 --> 02:26:40,800
Speaker 3: Time you hear it.

2655
02:26:41,360 --> 02:26:45,000
Speaker 4: Days of this. It's possible that the police will crack

2656
02:26:45,040 --> 02:26:48,080
Speaker 4: down harder because there's been some pressure put on them

2657
02:26:48,200 --> 02:26:53,240
Speaker 4: by basically every government's involved in this, but we just

2658
02:26:53,400 --> 02:26:56,520
Speaker 4: simply don't know that at this time. And yeah, I

2659
02:26:56,640 --> 02:26:58,480
Speaker 4: see absolutely horrifying day.

2660
02:26:58,840 --> 02:27:02,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty hard to see through. Immigration in the US

2661
02:27:03,000 --> 02:27:07,200
Speaker 3: now another country where things going great. So a judge

2662
02:27:07,200 --> 02:27:10,160
Speaker 3: has ruled that Trump administration's broad restrictions on asylum and

2663
02:27:10,320 --> 02:27:13,560
Speaker 3: work permit. These were issued after the shooting of two

2664
02:27:13,680 --> 02:27:18,360
Speaker 3: National Guards people in DC are unlawful. Quote from the

2665
02:27:18,400 --> 02:27:20,600
Speaker 3: court order here, more than six months to go. The

2666
02:27:20,720 --> 02:27:23,440
Speaker 3: United States Citizenship and Immigration Services in acted a series

2667
02:27:23,440 --> 02:27:26,200
Speaker 3: of policies through the lives of countless immigrants living in

2668
02:27:26,240 --> 02:27:29,920
Speaker 3: the United States into indeterminate legal limbo. The agency announced

2669
02:27:29,920 --> 02:27:31,840
Speaker 3: that it will be placing an indefinite pause on the

2670
02:27:31,840 --> 02:27:35,920
Speaker 3: adjudication of immigration benefit requests from individuals from thirty nine African, Asian,

2671
02:27:36,000 --> 02:27:39,200
Speaker 3: Latin American, and Middle Eastern countries. Since then, individuals from

2672
02:27:39,240 --> 02:27:42,680
Speaker 3: these countries have been categorically barred from receiving final decisions on,

2673
02:27:42,879 --> 02:27:45,800
Speaker 3: among other things, their asylum work permit, Greek caard and

2674
02:27:45,840 --> 02:27:50,800
Speaker 3: citizenship application. And USCIS hold on judications cannot be attributed

2675
02:27:50,840 --> 02:27:54,000
Speaker 3: to anything that these individuals did wrong. Rather, ed arises

2676
02:27:54,040 --> 02:27:57,400
Speaker 3: solely by the hapbitance of their birth. And then I

2677
02:27:57,440 --> 02:28:01,040
Speaker 3: found this interesting in the court documents here in ruling

2678
02:28:01,080 --> 02:28:03,000
Speaker 3: on these motions of court is reminded of a line

2679
02:28:03,080 --> 02:28:06,119
Speaker 3: often repeated in discussions around immigration policy. If people wish

2680
02:28:06,160 --> 02:28:07,960
Speaker 3: to immigrate to the United States, they ought to follow

2681
02:28:07,959 --> 02:28:10,360
Speaker 3: the law and do things the right way. This case

2682
02:28:10,480 --> 02:28:15,800
Speaker 3: serves as a perfect example of immigrants doing just that.

2683
02:28:15,840 --> 02:28:20,360
Speaker 3: They went on to say that the USCAS had used

2684
02:28:20,360 --> 02:28:24,360
Speaker 3: what they called pretextual concerns of national security that mask

2685
02:28:24,440 --> 02:28:28,520
Speaker 3: anti immigrant sentiment that is forbidden from letting influence its

2686
02:28:28,520 --> 02:28:31,200
Speaker 3: decision making legal terms. That means that us cis IS

2687
02:28:31,240 --> 02:28:34,960
Speaker 3: actions are a contrary to law, arbitrary and capricious. There's a

2688
02:28:35,000 --> 02:28:40,200
Speaker 3: fairly like emphatic court response. Right, this will affect a

2689
02:28:40,400 --> 02:28:42,560
Speaker 3: great deal of people. It has left a great deal

2690
02:28:42,560 --> 02:28:43,680
Speaker 3: of people in limbo.

2691
02:28:43,840 --> 02:28:44,040
Speaker 4: Right.

2692
02:28:44,400 --> 02:28:46,760
Speaker 3: Most famously, I guess there were people who were at

2693
02:28:46,760 --> 02:28:49,320
Speaker 3: the natural the stage of their naturalization where they take

2694
02:28:49,360 --> 02:28:52,720
Speaker 3: the oath to become American citizens, right, the very final step.

2695
02:28:53,480 --> 02:28:56,440
Speaker 3: It is obviously a formality. You've passed the background checks,

2696
02:28:56,440 --> 02:28:58,120
Speaker 3: done the interviews, et cetera, et cetera, but it's still

2697
02:28:58,120 --> 02:29:00,240
Speaker 3: a necessary step. Without doing it, you do not become

2698
02:29:00,280 --> 02:29:03,240
Speaker 3: a citizen. And those people had been delayed unable to

2699
02:29:03,280 --> 02:29:05,320
Speaker 3: do that. They will be able to proceed with that.

2700
02:29:05,800 --> 02:29:08,439
Speaker 3: Other people will be able to proceed with their process

2701
02:29:08,959 --> 02:29:12,760
Speaker 3: with the caveat that, uscas, if we have reported before

2702
02:29:12,760 --> 02:29:16,080
Speaker 3: in the show, is heavily focused on denaturalization, and it

2703
02:29:16,160 --> 02:29:18,560
Speaker 3: might be very hard for them to actually make that

2704
02:29:18,640 --> 02:29:22,480
Speaker 3: progress and get USCIS to move on stuff. Talking of

2705
02:29:22,520 --> 02:29:27,720
Speaker 3: de naturalization, the DOJ has begun proceedings against seventeen people

2706
02:29:27,959 --> 02:29:30,959
Speaker 3: IS people are either accused or convicted of serious crimes.

2707
02:29:31,520 --> 02:29:33,720
Speaker 3: What it seems that in most cases people have been

2708
02:29:33,720 --> 02:29:37,320
Speaker 3: adjudicated to have committed crimes. In some cases they played

2709
02:29:37,320 --> 02:29:42,360
Speaker 3: guilty to crimes after they naturalized, but that they were

2710
02:29:42,480 --> 02:29:46,240
Speaker 3: doing before they naturalized. And what they are arguing here,

2711
02:29:46,280 --> 02:29:49,840
Speaker 3: the DOJ is arguing is that therefore they lied when

2712
02:29:49,840 --> 02:29:52,240
Speaker 3: they were naturalized because they were asked if they had

2713
02:29:52,240 --> 02:29:54,760
Speaker 3: committed any crimes which they had not been arrested. So

2714
02:29:54,840 --> 02:29:58,920
Speaker 3: by not confessing to those crimes in their interview, they

2715
02:29:59,160 --> 02:30:03,160
Speaker 3: were therefore or lying. They were lying on the forum yes,

2716
02:30:03,200 --> 02:30:05,560
Speaker 3: on the form or in the interview, or both, and

2717
02:30:05,600 --> 02:30:08,080
Speaker 3: therefore that is why they are trying to de naturalizing.

2718
02:30:08,240 --> 02:30:11,360
Speaker 3: This is a large denaturalization. Seventeen people, there's a lot.

2719
02:30:11,680 --> 02:30:13,400
Speaker 3: A couple of them are so relged to have applied

2720
02:30:13,400 --> 02:30:16,720
Speaker 3: for immigration benefits under multiple different identities. One that I

2721
02:30:16,760 --> 02:30:20,240
Speaker 3: found particularly interesting is a Catholic priest who abused a

2722
02:30:20,320 --> 02:30:23,280
Speaker 3: minor parishioner. It's just interesting because it's interesting to see

2723
02:30:23,320 --> 02:30:26,720
Speaker 3: them going there. I'll follow these and kind of keep

2724
02:30:26,760 --> 02:30:29,879
Speaker 3: tabs on how these progress, but that they have been

2725
02:30:30,000 --> 02:30:34,280
Speaker 3: ramping up denaturalizations. This we are beginning to see them

2726
02:30:34,360 --> 02:30:37,400
Speaker 3: kind of reaping the work USCS has been doing since

2727
02:30:37,440 --> 02:30:41,640
Speaker 3: the Trump administration fundamentally turned that agency around and pointed

2728
02:30:41,640 --> 02:30:46,760
Speaker 3: it at denaturalization. Meanwhile, a GAO reportant immigration detension in

2729
02:30:46,840 --> 02:30:50,959
Speaker 3: Camp East Montana. I've never seen it written like Montagna

2730
02:30:51,040 --> 02:30:55,160
Speaker 3: with so I'm guessing it's Camp mon like like Joe Montana.

2731
02:30:55,680 --> 02:30:55,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2732
02:30:55,879 --> 02:30:58,960
Speaker 3: Well like I they write it says Montana, so like,

2733
02:30:59,000 --> 02:31:02,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, it didn't Bliss right, like it's inside

2734
02:31:02,760 --> 02:31:05,400
Speaker 3: Fort Bliss, so like one would expect normally, like a

2735
02:31:05,440 --> 02:31:09,640
Speaker 3: Spanish style pronunciation given the region. Yeah, but maybe they

2736
02:31:09,720 --> 02:31:12,160
Speaker 3: just like a fucking end yet I don't know, like

2737
02:31:12,200 --> 02:31:15,560
Speaker 3: why they're not anyway, it's Camp. Its name is spelled

2738
02:31:15,600 --> 02:31:18,600
Speaker 3: like the state, not the not the Spanish word for mountain.

2739
02:31:19,080 --> 02:31:21,440
Speaker 3: Some of the things detailed in the support are pretty shocking.

2740
02:31:21,760 --> 02:31:26,760
Speaker 3: A guard lost a loaded gun. Yeah, people with diabetes

2741
02:31:26,800 --> 02:31:30,440
Speaker 3: and HIV did not receive treatment plans and quote on Jesus.

2742
02:31:30,520 --> 02:31:31,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2743
02:31:31,080 --> 02:31:33,840
Speaker 3: On Febuar twenty twenty twenty six, ICE issued a discrepancy

2744
02:31:33,879 --> 02:31:36,480
Speaker 3: report for a detained nonsense and death by use of force.

2745
02:31:36,600 --> 02:31:40,120
Speaker 3: In January of twenty twenty six, the coroner's autopsy found

2746
02:31:40,160 --> 02:31:42,920
Speaker 3: the death to be a homicide due to asphyxiate. However,

2747
02:31:43,000 --> 02:31:45,280
Speaker 3: the contractor did not provide use of force and death

2748
02:31:45,320 --> 02:31:48,480
Speaker 3: reports to ICE as required. In addition, evidence associated with

2749
02:31:48,560 --> 02:31:51,640
Speaker 3: the incident was missing or destroyed.

2750
02:31:52,280 --> 02:31:55,520
Speaker 4: Jesus, Yeah, like one of their cards strangled someone to death,

2751
02:31:55,680 --> 02:31:57,119
Speaker 4: it appears, Yeah, it.

2752
02:31:57,120 --> 02:32:00,240
Speaker 3: Is the range of way someone could be asphyxiated, right,

2753
02:32:00,280 --> 02:32:04,800
Speaker 3: like A yeah, that's true, but I'm guessing the attempting

2754
02:32:04,800 --> 02:32:07,600
Speaker 3: to restrain this person violently and like as we've seen

2755
02:32:07,680 --> 02:32:11,000
Speaker 3: many other times in American history, murdered them and then

2756
02:32:11,120 --> 02:32:14,879
Speaker 3: evidence of that was destroyed. What is allowing this to

2757
02:32:14,959 --> 02:32:18,279
Speaker 3: happen is that the contract was solicited using a worldwide

2758
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:22,879
Speaker 3: Expeditionary Multiple Award contract vehicle that's generally like a military

2759
02:32:22,879 --> 02:32:27,560
Speaker 3: contract vehicle. It allows and experienced pool of military contractors

2760
02:32:27,600 --> 02:32:31,240
Speaker 3: to apply for the contract. They probably did it like

2761
02:32:31,280 --> 02:32:35,160
Speaker 3: this to expedite the awarding implementation, right like Eastpontana's a

2762
02:32:35,200 --> 02:32:37,520
Speaker 3: soft sided facility on Fort Blaze. I've talked about it

2763
02:32:37,520 --> 02:32:41,080
Speaker 3: before here. Soft side facility means tense, right, it means

2764
02:32:41,120 --> 02:32:44,840
Speaker 3: keeping hundreds of people intense. They hired a contractor who

2765
02:32:44,840 --> 02:32:49,240
Speaker 3: had no experience using what's called a lowest price technically

2766
02:32:49,360 --> 02:32:54,080
Speaker 3: acceptable evaluation approach, so they filter out people who can't

2767
02:32:54,200 --> 02:32:56,800
Speaker 3: do the requirements that they have for the contract, and

2768
02:32:56,840 --> 02:32:59,880
Speaker 3: then they look at which of the ones it does

2769
02:33:00,040 --> 02:33:01,600
Speaker 3: meet the requirements has the lowest price.

2770
02:33:01,760 --> 02:33:01,960
Speaker 5: Right.

2771
02:33:02,440 --> 02:33:05,760
Speaker 3: This has resulted very clearly in them contracting someone who

2772
02:33:05,840 --> 02:33:09,879
Speaker 3: is completely incapable of managing a facility like this, and

2773
02:33:09,959 --> 02:33:14,199
Speaker 3: even among ice facilities, this one appears to be particularly heinous.

2774
02:33:14,600 --> 02:33:18,040
Speaker 3: And this has resulted in very, very predictable and easily

2775
02:33:18,080 --> 02:33:21,560
Speaker 3: foreseen human tragedies. Right, they are capable of doing better

2776
02:33:21,600 --> 02:33:26,440
Speaker 3: than this. Conditions were very bad bliss for afghan people, right,

2777
02:33:26,480 --> 02:33:29,800
Speaker 3: who came here after the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I wrote

2778
02:33:29,840 --> 02:33:32,160
Speaker 3: about that for the nation. You can look it up.

2779
02:33:32,200 --> 02:33:34,560
Speaker 3: I they interview to someone who was there. But this

2780
02:33:34,720 --> 02:33:38,840
Speaker 3: is even worse. Rather than learning from that, they've just

2781
02:33:38,879 --> 02:33:42,400
Speaker 3: gone deeper. This has resulted in at least one person

2782
02:33:42,560 --> 02:33:44,840
Speaker 3: being killed. It's pretty horrific.

2783
02:33:45,440 --> 02:33:47,960
Speaker 10: Let's go and break and then we will return for

2784
02:33:48,080 --> 02:33:52,320
Speaker 10: some stories about trans healthcare and war with Iran.

2785
02:34:05,200 --> 02:34:06,119
Speaker 4: All right, we are back.

2786
02:34:07,040 --> 02:34:12,160
Speaker 10: I have a sort of hodgepodge collection of stories related

2787
02:34:12,520 --> 02:34:16,039
Speaker 10: to trans healthcare and trans writes to the United States

2788
02:34:16,840 --> 02:34:19,400
Speaker 10: that I'm going to go kind of sequentially, and they

2789
02:34:19,440 --> 02:34:22,640
Speaker 10: some of them tied together. But let's start with the

2790
02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:26,600
Speaker 10: trans military ban. We've been upted on this. A federal

2791
02:34:26,640 --> 02:34:30,160
Speaker 10: appeals court has at least temporarily blocked the Pentagon from

2792
02:34:30,240 --> 02:34:35,080
Speaker 10: expelling transgender members of the military, though trans people may

2793
02:34:35,080 --> 02:34:38,560
Speaker 10: be barred from enlisting. So this is kind of sort

2794
02:34:38,600 --> 02:34:41,440
Speaker 10: of like a new form of don't ask, don't tell,

2795
02:34:41,480 --> 02:34:45,160
Speaker 10: in a way of you can get in if you're

2796
02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:47,840
Speaker 10: not trans, but once you're in and you are trans,

2797
02:34:47,879 --> 02:34:51,480
Speaker 10: there's no legal grounds to remove you from the military.

2798
02:34:52,320 --> 02:34:54,800
Speaker 10: This was a two to one ruling that found hag

2799
02:34:54,959 --> 02:34:58,879
Speaker 10: Set's anti trans policy was quote driven by the bare

2800
02:34:59,000 --> 02:35:04,000
Speaker 10: desire to harm of politically unpopular group and quote both

2801
02:35:04,120 --> 02:35:07,800
Speaker 10: arbitrary and based on animus. For those reasons, the policy

2802
02:35:07,879 --> 02:35:12,400
Speaker 10: violates the plaintiff Apelli's constitutional right to equal protection of

2803
02:35:12,600 --> 02:35:15,959
Speaker 10: the law unquote the last, but is very important, like

2804
02:35:16,000 --> 02:35:18,320
Speaker 10: the equal protection clause in cases like this is going

2805
02:35:18,400 --> 02:35:21,440
Speaker 10: to be the main thing that trans people are able

2806
02:35:21,480 --> 02:35:25,240
Speaker 10: to rely on now. Circuit Judge Robert Wilkins and Obama

2807
02:35:25,280 --> 02:35:29,480
Speaker 10: appointe wrote that the Trump admin claimed their anti trans

2808
02:35:29,520 --> 02:35:33,440
Speaker 10: policy is solely about whether the military can disqualify people

2809
02:35:33,480 --> 02:35:37,640
Speaker 10: from service due to a mental health condition like gender dysphoria.

2810
02:35:38,240 --> 02:35:41,400
Speaker 10: Judge Wilkins wrote, quote, but the record shows that the

2811
02:35:41,400 --> 02:35:45,240
Speaker 10: purpose of the haig Seth policy is to target applicants

2812
02:35:45,240 --> 02:35:49,039
Speaker 10: and service members who express what the administration believes is

2813
02:35:49,120 --> 02:35:52,920
Speaker 10: a quote unquote false gender identity, and the policy goes

2814
02:35:53,040 --> 02:35:58,199
Speaker 10: far beyond disqualifying persons currently or recently suffering from gender dysphoria.

2815
02:35:58,680 --> 02:36:02,680
Speaker 10: Some of those disqualifications are completely unexplained and have no

2816
02:36:02,840 --> 02:36:07,520
Speaker 10: reasonable justification unquote. Haig Seth almost immediately announced he is

2817
02:36:07,560 --> 02:36:10,720
Speaker 10: appealing to the Supreme Court. Oh boy, we will see

2818
02:36:10,760 --> 02:36:11,520
Speaker 10: where this goes.

2819
02:36:11,760 --> 02:36:12,000
Speaker 6: YEP.

2820
02:36:12,879 --> 02:36:16,720
Speaker 10: Last month, the DOJ announced a settlement with the Texas

2821
02:36:16,840 --> 02:36:21,440
Speaker 10: Children's Hospital as part of an ongoing national investigation into

2822
02:36:21,480 --> 02:36:25,440
Speaker 10: violations of federal law for providing gender affirming care to miners.

2823
02:36:26,440 --> 02:36:30,200
Speaker 10: The Texas Children's Hospital has entered into agreements with both

2824
02:36:30,240 --> 02:36:33,600
Speaker 10: the DOJ and the Texas Aturney General Ken Paxton that

2825
02:36:33,760 --> 02:36:38,000
Speaker 10: includes a commitment to not perform quote unquote sex rejecting

2826
02:36:38,120 --> 02:36:43,240
Speaker 10: procedures on minors, which the DOJ says includes puberty blockers

2827
02:36:43,280 --> 02:36:46,240
Speaker 10: and cross sex hormones. This is a new term that

2828
02:36:46,240 --> 02:36:50,840
Speaker 10: they're really really rolling out it's sex rejecting procedures. That

2829
02:36:51,240 --> 02:36:53,000
Speaker 10: you're going to see this a lot more in these

2830
02:36:53,040 --> 02:36:54,400
Speaker 10: next few weeks to months.

2831
02:36:54,680 --> 02:36:56,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2832
02:36:56,480 --> 02:37:00,440
Speaker 10: The hospital in Texas also agreed to pay over ten

2833
02:37:00,520 --> 02:37:04,120
Speaker 10: million dollars in damages and civil penalties to quote resolve

2834
02:37:04,160 --> 02:37:08,600
Speaker 10: allegations that it submitted false billings to public and private

2835
02:37:08,760 --> 02:37:14,480
Speaker 10: payers to secure insurance coverage for pediatric sex rejecting procedures.

2836
02:37:14,760 --> 02:37:17,920
Speaker 10: The Department alleges this conduct violated the Federal Food, Drug,

2837
02:37:17,959 --> 02:37:21,920
Speaker 10: and Cosmetic Act, the False Claims Act, and federal Fraud

2838
02:37:22,000 --> 02:37:25,760
Speaker 10: and Conspiracy laws un quote. So they're saying that by

2839
02:37:25,800 --> 02:37:30,240
Speaker 10: billing insurance with their public or private for quote unquote

2840
02:37:30,280 --> 02:37:33,760
Speaker 10: sex rejecting procedures trans healthcare, that this was an act

2841
02:37:33,760 --> 02:37:35,720
Speaker 10: of fraud. Now, this is a settlement, and at the

2842
02:37:35,800 --> 02:37:38,039
Speaker 10: end of the settlement they do note that these are

2843
02:37:38,080 --> 02:37:40,240
Speaker 10: just allegations that these have not actually been proven. The

2844
02:37:40,280 --> 02:37:43,160
Speaker 10: liability has not been proven in a court, but these

2845
02:37:43,160 --> 02:37:46,640
Speaker 10: are the allegations that resulted in the settlement. Now, as

2846
02:37:46,640 --> 02:37:49,160
Speaker 10: a part of the settlement, the Children's Hospital will also

2847
02:37:49,680 --> 02:37:54,920
Speaker 10: open the first ever quote unquote D transition clinic. So

2848
02:37:55,840 --> 02:37:58,240
Speaker 10: D transition Care is the same as transition care. Right,

2849
02:37:58,240 --> 02:38:02,080
Speaker 10: it is the same type of care. Yeah, I know this,

2850
02:38:01,720 --> 02:38:04,600
Speaker 10: This is like what I do. There's not enough D

2851
02:38:04,800 --> 02:38:08,080
Speaker 10: transitioners out in the world to sustain an actual full clinic,

2852
02:38:08,720 --> 02:38:12,320
Speaker 10: which points to the fact that this clinic is not

2853
02:38:12,600 --> 02:38:17,199
Speaker 10: gonna be used for consenting D transition. This is mainly

2854
02:38:17,240 --> 02:38:19,400
Speaker 10: going to be used as a conversion therapy clinic for

2855
02:38:19,800 --> 02:38:22,840
Speaker 10: kids who want to transition but are now going to

2856
02:38:22,879 --> 02:38:26,279
Speaker 10: be forced to go to a clinic like this because

2857
02:38:26,280 --> 02:38:30,199
Speaker 10: they're not able to get their healthcare through this hospital

2858
02:38:30,840 --> 02:38:34,480
Speaker 10: or really like in Texas as a minor. The Cleveland

2859
02:38:34,520 --> 02:38:38,840
Speaker 10: Clinic in Ohio settled a very similar case last week,

2860
02:38:39,400 --> 02:38:43,200
Speaker 10: paying three hundred and eight thousand dollars fine and agree

2861
02:38:43,280 --> 02:38:46,680
Speaker 10: to dedicate two million dollars in funds for D transition

2862
02:38:46,800 --> 02:38:51,040
Speaker 10: care while promising to not provide gender firming healthcare to

2863
02:38:51,120 --> 02:38:55,200
Speaker 10: minors for twenty years. That is the part of the

2864
02:38:55,240 --> 02:38:59,480
Speaker 10: settlement in the Cleveland Clinic case. God In mid May,

2865
02:39:00,280 --> 02:39:05,200
Speaker 10: Oklahoma passed a bill prohibiting Medicaid coverage of gender affirming care,

2866
02:39:05,480 --> 02:39:08,959
Speaker 10: including surgery and HRT, as well as offering this care

2867
02:39:09,320 --> 02:39:14,400
Speaker 10: in state owned facilities. The bill does not cut funding.

2868
02:39:14,480 --> 02:39:18,520
Speaker 10: Two doctors at private health care facilities to provide HRT,

2869
02:39:18,920 --> 02:39:22,040
Speaker 10: as I have seen some claim online. This, like many

2870
02:39:22,080 --> 02:39:25,640
Speaker 10: of the Medicaid restrictions, primarily effects horror trans people on

2871
02:39:25,760 --> 02:39:29,440
Speaker 10: state Medicaid and may make care hard to access in

2872
02:39:29,480 --> 02:39:33,760
Speaker 10: the future, depending on how private hospitals react to this bill,

2873
02:39:34,160 --> 02:39:36,800
Speaker 10: even though it does not necessarily force them to change

2874
02:39:36,840 --> 02:39:42,600
Speaker 10: the way they operate. Lastly, later this summer, New York

2875
02:39:42,640 --> 02:39:45,760
Speaker 10: City will begin testing a pilot program for a direct,

2876
02:39:46,080 --> 02:39:49,560
Speaker 10: low slash, no cost gender affirming care clinic for adults,

2877
02:39:49,959 --> 02:39:54,480
Speaker 10: opening in a low income neighborhood in Queens. I think

2878
02:39:54,560 --> 02:39:57,640
Speaker 10: this is a good first step in providing access to care,

2879
02:39:57,879 --> 02:40:01,560
Speaker 10: considering the Trump administration's threats to restrict Medicaid and Medicare

2880
02:40:01,600 --> 02:40:06,240
Speaker 10: coverage or remove Medicare Medicaid eligibility from hospitals that provide

2881
02:40:06,680 --> 02:40:10,400
Speaker 10: firming care services. But as we know, trans youth have

2882
02:40:10,560 --> 02:40:14,640
Speaker 10: borne the brunt of these threats. Now, Bozmandani and the

2883
02:40:14,640 --> 02:40:17,160
Speaker 10: City Health Commissioner have said they are working to expand

2884
02:40:17,400 --> 02:40:20,600
Speaker 10: city provided gender firming care services to cover trans youth.

2885
02:40:21,080 --> 02:40:24,120
Speaker 10: Commissioner Martin told the City Council last Friday, quote, we

2886
02:40:24,160 --> 02:40:26,440
Speaker 10: are committed to this issue and want to make sure

2887
02:40:26,440 --> 02:40:29,560
Speaker 10: that we provide the services and resources for youth, as

2888
02:40:29,560 --> 02:40:32,920
Speaker 10: well as making sure we don't expose ourselves to clawbacks

2889
02:40:32,920 --> 02:40:35,560
Speaker 10: from the federal government which disrupt the rest of the

2890
02:40:35,600 --> 02:40:38,560
Speaker 10: care we can give. There's much more to come on this,

2891
02:40:38,959 --> 02:40:41,840
Speaker 10: but rest assured we are working on this un quote.

2892
02:40:42,120 --> 02:40:45,560
Speaker 10: Something that is worth understanding here is that this new

2893
02:40:45,840 --> 02:40:49,880
Speaker 10: pilot program, this city run low slash, no cost dropping clinic,

2894
02:40:50,440 --> 02:40:54,160
Speaker 10: is completely separate from the city's H and H Municipal

2895
02:40:54,240 --> 02:40:58,680
Speaker 10: Hospital system, which already operates multiple H and H Pride

2896
02:40:58,680 --> 02:41:03,360
Speaker 10: centers that currently offer youth gender firming care, including HRT.

2897
02:41:03,959 --> 02:41:06,680
Speaker 10: I called one this morning to confirm that they are

2898
02:41:06,720 --> 02:41:10,960
Speaker 10: still offering services to children people of all ages.

2899
02:41:11,400 --> 02:41:11,520
Speaker 5: Now.

2900
02:41:11,720 --> 02:41:15,360
Speaker 10: H and H is funded through city subsidies and patient

2901
02:41:15,360 --> 02:41:19,400
Speaker 10: revenue through Medicare. The new pilot program is attempting to

2902
02:41:19,480 --> 02:41:23,119
Speaker 10: launch an alternative care service that isn't reliant on insurance

2903
02:41:23,280 --> 02:41:26,800
Speaker 10: or federal funding if that comes into question, and they're

2904
02:41:26,800 --> 02:41:28,840
Speaker 10: trying to get this clinic up and running off the

2905
02:41:28,840 --> 02:41:31,320
Speaker 10: ground as soon as possible, and then once the pilot

2906
02:41:31,360 --> 02:41:36,000
Speaker 10: program is tested expanded. Last week, Mom Donnie announced a

2907
02:41:36,040 --> 02:41:39,320
Speaker 10: fifteen million dollar investment in gender firming care quote unquote

2908
02:41:39,560 --> 02:41:42,160
Speaker 10: as a first step, and said that the phones would

2909
02:41:42,160 --> 02:41:45,000
Speaker 10: be used to quote unquote unlock care for youth who

2910
02:41:45,040 --> 02:41:48,440
Speaker 10: have had their healthcare restricted by private hospitals. So it's

2911
02:41:48,480 --> 02:41:52,560
Speaker 10: currently unclear how exactly these funds will be used. For

2912
02:41:52,600 --> 02:41:54,960
Speaker 10: a while, advocates in New York City and state were

2913
02:41:55,040 --> 02:41:57,680
Speaker 10: fighting for care in the state budget, which delayed some

2914
02:41:57,720 --> 02:42:01,160
Speaker 10: of the process on this city prom care because they

2915
02:42:01,160 --> 02:42:03,320
Speaker 10: were expecting about eight million dollars of care from the

2916
02:42:03,360 --> 02:42:07,119
Speaker 10: state budget, which eventually fell through. So now the city

2917
02:42:07,160 --> 02:42:11,080
Speaker 10: process is ramping up on us. Earlier this year, two

2918
02:42:11,280 --> 02:42:14,480
Speaker 10: major hospital systems in New York City stopped providing gender

2919
02:42:14,520 --> 02:42:19,560
Speaker 10: firming care to trans youth ahead of prospective HHS federal

2920
02:42:19,680 --> 02:42:23,480
Speaker 10: rule changes that would prevent hospitals from receiving federal funding

2921
02:42:23,760 --> 02:42:27,440
Speaker 10: if they offer gender firming care services to youth. These

2922
02:42:27,480 --> 02:42:29,680
Speaker 10: rules have yet to go in effect, but two major

2923
02:42:29,720 --> 02:42:34,359
Speaker 10: hospitals essentially complied beforehand. The risks from the federal government

2924
02:42:34,600 --> 02:42:38,360
Speaker 10: aren't just isolated to restricting federal funding. The trip administration

2925
02:42:38,400 --> 02:42:40,720
Speaker 10: has employed a variety of threats in an attempt to

2926
02:42:40,800 --> 02:42:45,519
Speaker 10: intimidate patients and care providers. Last month, the two hospitals

2927
02:42:45,520 --> 02:42:49,280
Speaker 10: that discontinued care for trans youth received a criminal grand

2928
02:42:49,400 --> 02:42:52,119
Speaker 10: jury subpoena from the US Attorney's Office in the Northern

2929
02:42:52,160 --> 02:42:56,440
Speaker 10: District of Texas requesting information on pagans under eighteen years

2930
02:42:56,440 --> 02:42:59,800
Speaker 10: of age. At least one of the hospitals, Mount Sinai,

2931
02:42:59,879 --> 02:43:03,320
Speaker 10: is complying with the subpoena, though telling parents the records

2932
02:43:03,360 --> 02:43:04,600
Speaker 10: would be anonymized.

2933
02:43:05,360 --> 02:43:06,160
Speaker 3: Whatever that means.

2934
02:43:06,240 --> 02:43:07,119
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

2935
02:43:07,480 --> 02:43:09,760
Speaker 10: A group of trans New Yorkers who have received care

2936
02:43:09,920 --> 02:43:13,920
Speaker 10: at Nyu Langoon and their parents have filed a class

2937
02:43:14,000 --> 02:43:17,879
Speaker 10: action lawsuit to protect their medical records. Though patients at

2938
02:43:17,920 --> 02:43:20,120
Speaker 10: Mount sign I could also sign on to this suit.

2939
02:43:20,560 --> 02:43:25,080
Speaker 10: The suit has extended the deadline for the subpoena till

2940
02:43:25,160 --> 02:43:29,840
Speaker 10: late June, as both the hospital and patients fight this

2941
02:43:30,040 --> 02:43:35,080
Speaker 10: in court. A similar administrative subpoena requesting records for youth

2942
02:43:35,160 --> 02:43:39,440
Speaker 10: patients was challenged and successfully blocked in Rhode Island. These

2943
02:43:39,440 --> 02:43:41,879
Speaker 10: subpoenas should be fought on the strongest grounds by both

2944
02:43:41,920 --> 02:43:46,280
Speaker 10: the patients, the state, the city, and the hospitals themselves

2945
02:43:46,720 --> 02:43:49,879
Speaker 10: and beyond the all ages care currently offered by the

2946
02:43:49,959 --> 02:43:52,199
Speaker 10: h h HELL system. I think it was also fair

2947
02:43:52,320 --> 02:43:56,040
Speaker 10: to advocate that the direct slow no cost drop and

2948
02:43:56,160 --> 02:44:00,879
Speaker 10: clinic expand to cover all ages once thelot program is

2949
02:44:01,040 --> 02:44:03,199
Speaker 10: up and running this summer.

2950
02:44:03,440 --> 02:44:06,959
Speaker 3: We'll briefly discuss the detention of an ICE officer and

2951
02:44:07,080 --> 02:44:10,720
Speaker 3: the war on Iran. We do have a good ICE

2952
02:44:10,840 --> 02:44:14,000
Speaker 3: arrest for you this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the one

2953
02:44:14,240 --> 02:44:16,680
Speaker 3: good out theorist. Right, let's just start there then. So,

2954
02:44:16,879 --> 02:44:21,720
Speaker 3: Henepin County Attorney has file charges against ICE agent Christian Castro.

2955
02:44:22,480 --> 02:44:26,120
Speaker 3: Castro was arrested in Texas. He is arrested by Texas

2956
02:44:26,240 --> 02:44:30,120
Speaker 3: rangers with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension investigators and

2957
02:44:30,200 --> 02:44:34,440
Speaker 3: DHS Security Office of the Inspector General staff at the scene.

2958
02:44:34,720 --> 02:44:37,680
Speaker 3: According to a statement by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office,

2959
02:44:37,920 --> 02:44:40,920
Speaker 3: Castro was charged with four counts of second degree assault

2960
02:44:41,000 --> 02:44:43,600
Speaker 3: and one count of falsely reporting a crime for an

2961
02:44:43,600 --> 02:44:46,160
Speaker 3: incident on January fourteen, twenty twenty six, when he discharged

2962
02:44:46,200 --> 02:44:48,760
Speaker 3: his weapon through the front door of a home, knowing

2963
02:44:48,800 --> 02:44:51,440
Speaker 3: there were people who had just run inside. The bullet

2964
02:44:51,440 --> 02:44:53,360
Speaker 3: traveled through the door and struck oneing victim in the

2965
02:44:53,440 --> 02:44:56,520
Speaker 3: leg before making its final impact in the wall of

2966
02:44:56,520 --> 02:44:59,600
Speaker 3: a child's room. They didn't know in this that the

2967
02:44:59,640 --> 02:45:02,640
Speaker 3: case be removed to federal court, but they say that

2968
02:45:02,720 --> 02:45:06,200
Speaker 3: he would still be ineligible for presidential pardon. It is

2969
02:45:06,240 --> 02:45:11,800
Speaker 3: not usual when announcing any prosecution to consider the impact

2970
02:45:11,840 --> 02:45:14,840
Speaker 3: of a presidential pardon. It is interesting that they did.

2971
02:45:16,560 --> 02:45:19,720
Speaker 3: The case in question refers to Castro shooting of Julio

2972
02:45:19,760 --> 02:45:23,760
Speaker 3: Soce Elise, in which the DHS claimed that Soca Salise

2973
02:45:23,840 --> 02:45:26,280
Speaker 3: and two others attacked Castro with a broom at a

2974
02:45:26,280 --> 02:45:29,480
Speaker 3: snowshovel and that Castro quote fired the defensive shot to

2975
02:45:29,480 --> 02:45:32,840
Speaker 3: defend his life. DHS very quickly dropped its case put

2976
02:45:32,879 --> 02:45:36,120
Speaker 3: two agents on leave for providing accounts that contradicted by

2977
02:45:36,240 --> 02:45:39,760
Speaker 3: video evidence. Probably Castro was one of them, right. This

2978
02:45:39,920 --> 02:45:43,600
Speaker 3: is interesting a that they were able to obtain the

2979
02:45:43,840 --> 02:45:48,200
Speaker 3: DHSOIG support. I had forgotten the DHSOIG were still doing

2980
02:45:48,280 --> 02:45:50,200
Speaker 3: stuff like this. To be honest, I didn't think they were.

2981
02:45:50,560 --> 02:45:53,240
Speaker 3: So this will be one that we will follow. That

2982
02:45:53,440 --> 02:45:58,920
Speaker 3: only leaves us with Iran, where this week a United

2983
02:45:58,920 --> 02:46:04,560
Speaker 3: States a patch helicopter was people have been using shot down.

2984
02:46:05,040 --> 02:46:07,720
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if it was shot. It was taken

2985
02:46:07,800 --> 02:46:12,600
Speaker 3: down reportedly by an Iranian drone and reportedly by a

2986
02:46:12,640 --> 02:46:18,040
Speaker 3: collision with that drone. It's possible that it's happened accidentally,

2987
02:46:18,600 --> 02:46:21,920
Speaker 3: but given other things we've seen right with in Ukraine,

2988
02:46:21,959 --> 02:46:24,840
Speaker 3: for example, it is possible to take down a helicopter

2989
02:46:24,879 --> 02:46:27,240
Speaker 3: with FPV drone, that would be my guess as to

2990
02:46:27,280 --> 02:46:31,320
Speaker 3: what happened here. Its crew were then rescued from the

2991
02:46:31,360 --> 02:46:36,480
Speaker 3: straight of horn moves by another drone, an uncrewed surface vessel.

2992
02:46:36,720 --> 02:46:39,320
Speaker 3: The US only bought these online in March of this year,

2993
02:46:39,680 --> 02:46:42,520
Speaker 3: so this is the first time that we're aware of

2994
02:46:42,560 --> 02:46:44,760
Speaker 3: that they were using this capacity. Right, So, this is

2995
02:46:44,840 --> 02:46:48,360
Speaker 3: like a boat drone, an uncrewed surface vessel, and it

2996
02:46:48,680 --> 02:46:50,840
Speaker 3: scooped well, I didn't scoop them up. They got on it.

2997
02:46:50,840 --> 02:46:53,039
Speaker 3: It collected them and then it took them to a

2998
02:46:53,080 --> 02:46:55,600
Speaker 3: second location where a helicopter was able to lift them up.

2999
02:46:55,800 --> 02:46:58,560
Speaker 3: As a direct result, and according to a saint combat

3000
02:46:58,600 --> 02:47:01,680
Speaker 3: the direct order of the President, the USN began self

3001
02:47:01,680 --> 02:47:05,560
Speaker 3: defense I'm quoting here right, quote unquote self defense strikes

3002
02:47:05,560 --> 02:47:09,640
Speaker 3: against Iran. They claim these strikes where a quote unquote

3003
02:47:09,760 --> 02:47:12,720
Speaker 3: warning shot and will not impact negotiations. But as we

3004
02:47:12,760 --> 02:47:16,320
Speaker 3: record this on Wednesday afternoon, they have just announced another

3005
02:47:16,400 --> 02:47:21,320
Speaker 3: series of strikes. This all comes after Israel and Iran

3006
02:47:21,480 --> 02:47:26,440
Speaker 3: exchanged missile Salvos when Iran responded to Israeli bombing and

3007
02:47:26,520 --> 02:47:30,560
Speaker 3: bait route and the who Thies have also claimed a

3008
02:47:30,600 --> 02:47:33,080
Speaker 3: missile attack on Israel and have said that they would

3009
02:47:33,160 --> 02:47:37,640
Speaker 3: begin targeting Israeli shipping. Again, we already teetering around the

3010
02:47:37,720 --> 02:47:40,680
Speaker 3: edge of this becoming a massive international conflict in a region. Again,

3011
02:47:41,040 --> 02:47:43,520
Speaker 3: that mean it is a massive international conflict, right, but

3012
02:47:43,640 --> 02:47:48,320
Speaker 3: returning to these full scale conflict that we saw until

3013
02:47:48,440 --> 02:47:51,720
Speaker 3: the ceasefire, which has been repeatedly violated, but the nonetheless

3014
02:47:51,720 --> 02:47:56,400
Speaker 3: has reduced the amount of bombing that's happening. Israel also

3015
02:47:56,520 --> 02:48:00,320
Speaker 3: bombed Palestine this week. Among the people killed was an

3016
02:48:00,320 --> 02:48:04,000
Speaker 3: eight year old boy named Judd Soliman in northern Gaza,

3017
02:48:04,120 --> 02:48:07,520
Speaker 3: which is tragic. Yeah, we'll keep reporting on this, Like

3018
02:48:07,879 --> 02:48:10,039
Speaker 3: I've tried really hard not to make our coverage of

3019
02:48:10,120 --> 02:48:14,199
Speaker 3: especially what's happening on around Twitter review because real people

3020
02:48:14,200 --> 02:48:16,520
Speaker 3: are killing and real people are dying, and like it's

3021
02:48:16,520 --> 02:48:19,600
Speaker 3: it's focusing on the stupid ship that the president said

3022
02:48:19,720 --> 02:48:22,360
Speaker 3: or that you know, net Yahoo said on Twitter, Like

3023
02:48:22,440 --> 02:48:25,240
Speaker 3: it'sn't a true social converted to Twitter or whatever, Like

3024
02:48:25,800 --> 02:48:28,400
Speaker 3: that's not really what's such steak here? Like, what's such

3025
02:48:28,400 --> 02:48:31,440
Speaker 3: steak is people's lives, and so I want to kind

3026
02:48:31,440 --> 02:48:34,840
Speaker 3: of avoid doing the back and forth social media review.

3027
02:48:35,080 --> 02:48:38,520
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's what I got this week. Cool oh

3028
02:48:38,840 --> 02:48:42,680
Speaker 3: breaking news as we as we go to press here,

3029
02:48:42,959 --> 02:48:46,560
Speaker 3: the Berlin Zoo has announced the name of its newborn

3030
02:48:46,680 --> 02:48:48,200
Speaker 3: pygmy hippopotamus, and.

3031
02:48:48,200 --> 02:48:50,440
Speaker 2: I thought Hitler was a mistake. I'm gonna be honest

3032
02:48:50,440 --> 02:48:52,720
Speaker 2: with you, guys. I don't think that's an appropriate name

3033
02:48:52,760 --> 02:48:53,000
Speaker 2: for them.

3034
02:48:59,520 --> 02:49:01,680
Speaker 3: I drop link in the chat so you can appreciate it.

3035
02:49:01,680 --> 02:49:06,080
Speaker 3: It's like a new moodang just dropped moment. They are

3036
02:49:06,080 --> 02:49:09,520
Speaker 3: calling it brochen brochun and you speak German.

3037
02:49:09,600 --> 02:49:16,400
Speaker 2: Sure, okay, guys, that's that's martius. Yeah, good work, guys.

3038
02:49:16,400 --> 02:49:19,280
Speaker 2: That sounds like a candy children aren't legally allowed to

3039
02:49:19,320 --> 02:49:20,759
Speaker 2: eat in my country.

3040
02:49:21,280 --> 02:49:24,840
Speaker 3: Another dub for German marketing. It means bread roll. I

3041
02:49:24,840 --> 02:49:27,080
Speaker 3: guess it is a very cute hippopotomist. That's a pretty

3042
02:49:27,080 --> 02:49:28,879
Speaker 3: cute name. It would be a cute name.

3043
02:49:29,400 --> 02:49:31,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I guess if you're German, it's

3044
02:49:31,720 --> 02:49:34,320
Speaker 4: a cute name. Hit us up German language listeners. Does

3045
02:49:34,320 --> 02:49:35,160
Speaker 4: it seem cute to you?

3046
02:49:35,200 --> 02:49:35,320
Speaker 8: Now?

3047
02:49:35,360 --> 02:49:37,200
Speaker 3: Don't because you'll just get angry. At us for not

3048
02:49:37,320 --> 02:49:41,320
Speaker 3: understanding your strange language. In my defense, you live outside

3049
02:49:41,320 --> 02:49:44,280
Speaker 3: of America, the only other country in the world, right, Yeah,

3050
02:49:44,280 --> 02:49:46,440
Speaker 3: I think that's it. Yeah, I'm just going to ignore

3051
02:49:46,480 --> 02:49:50,640
Speaker 3: the Iran reporting that. Yeah, yeah, we just well we'll.

3052
02:49:50,520 --> 02:49:54,320
Speaker 4: Not mention that. Email us at fool Zone, tips at

3053
02:49:54,320 --> 02:49:56,800
Speaker 4: proton dot me. Some of you marketing fuckers are still

3054
02:49:56,840 --> 02:49:58,560
Speaker 4: trying remarkable.

3055
02:49:58,720 --> 02:50:01,240
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure it's one person who just create new

3056
02:50:01,920 --> 02:50:05,400
Speaker 3: new aliases. But I'm playing whack a mole over there

3057
02:50:05,440 --> 02:50:10,000
Speaker 3: in the block list. Okay, I will read your name

3058
02:50:10,480 --> 02:50:12,320
Speaker 3: this out if you keep doing it.

3059
02:50:13,120 --> 02:50:15,480
Speaker 2: All right, well, I think that's going to be it

3060
02:50:15,600 --> 02:50:18,240
Speaker 2: for all of us here at It could happen here.

3061
02:50:18,600 --> 02:50:20,760
Speaker 2: That's the it, and it could happen here is this

3062
02:50:21,200 --> 02:50:23,840
Speaker 2: is Us Doing It podcast.

3063
02:50:24,320 --> 02:50:26,680
Speaker 4: Goodbye, Put a try to skull on your couch.

3064
02:50:27,360 --> 02:50:29,000
Speaker 10: We reported the news.

3065
02:50:30,320 --> 02:50:31,360
Speaker 5: We reported the news.

3066
02:50:38,280 --> 02:50:41,480
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3067
02:50:41,520 --> 02:50:43,400
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3068
02:50:44,160 --> 02:50:46,640
Speaker 1: It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3069
02:50:46,840 --> 02:50:49,920
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3070
02:50:50,000 --> 02:50:52,560
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

3071
02:50:52,560 --> 02:50:56,680
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,

3072
02:50:56,959 --> 02:50:58,840
Speaker 1: you can now find sources for it could happen here,

3073
02:50:58,920 --> 02:51:01,879
Speaker 1: listed directly an episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,