WEBVTT - Episode 44: Omicron and The Path Forward with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:04.240 Pop next The Truth with Lisa bof A The So, 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:08.119 the omicron variant is sweeping the nation, and with it 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:13.159 has come fear and new draconian government measures. Cities like 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:17.759 Boston and Chicago are now implementing vaccine mandates. You've got 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.840 to be vaccinated to go out to dinner, to go 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.200 to museums, basically just to live your life. But what's 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.520 the point of it when the vaccines don't stop transmission? 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:30.720 When vaccinated people like Senators Elizabeth Warren and Corey Booker, 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.479 who both said they've recently got the boosted, well they 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.120 both just got COVID. So what do you need to 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:37.600 know about all this? What do you need to know 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.440 about a macron? What do you need to know about 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.159 this incredibly transmissible variant? Is it going to get us 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.040 closer to her immunity? Does the vaccine provide any protection 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.240 at all? This week, I turned to Dr j Baticharia 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.560 for The Truth. He's a professor of medicine at Stanford University. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.040 He's also one of the co authors of the Great 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:03.360 Barrington Declaration. He is also recently opened the Academy for 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.640 Science and Freedom with Hillsdale College along with Dr Scott 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.800 Atlas and Martin Colder. You guys are familiar with them. 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.639 They both have been on this show. All of these people, 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.119 including j. Batcharia, They've come, They've given you the truth. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.679 They're honest people. There are people we should be turning 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.640 to for the truth and all of this. Also want 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.320 to talk with Dr about a Charia about how Fauci 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.280 and the ni H have intentionally shut down dissenting voices 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:32.840 and the truth and all of this. We're gonna get 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.920 into how exactly they have done that, how the ni 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:38.600 H has done that, and how they control so many 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:42.160 of the scientists in the country through grant money and funding. 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.560 So a lot to get into. It's going to be 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.680 super interesting. We'll get you the truth on all of 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:55.720 this with Dr J. Baticharia. Stay tuned. I'm so excited 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.480 for this next episode. As we're saying this, this new 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.200 variant in the country, the panic, the draconian measures, rinse 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.680 and repeat, which is something we're all familiar with. So 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.240 I'm so happy to have Dr J. Batachara on the show, 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.440 someone who has been a voice of reason throughout all 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:14.919 this chaos. Doctor, thanks so much for joining the show. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.400 Oh thank you for having me so I'm actually one 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.799 of the unlucky recipients of this new variant. I have 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.040 spent the past week now just getting over COVID, So 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.360 fortunately I'm on the other side of it almost, but 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.000 it definitely kicked my butt. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:32.880 I mean I think it could. You know, there's there's 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.160 delta still floating around. So I think the evidence on 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.840 amicron by itself is that it's it's milder. But COVID 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.240 isn't a joke. I mean, obviously, so many people have 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.000 died from it, so it's something we should take seriously, 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.160 but it's not something we should destroy our society around, 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.560 which is unfortunately, I think we've done large in many 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.200 ways over the last two years. Well, it definitely has. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.520 And you know, you're one of the few people out 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.079 there really arguing again some of those draconian lockdown. You 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.360 know what's so interesting is there's recently a Foyer request 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.080 from the American Institute for Economic Research that undercovered emails 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.880 were Dr Fauci and Dr Francis Collins were scheming against 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.239 you and the other individuals who signed the Great Barrington Declaration. 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.280 What did that feel like to sort of be on 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.720 the receiving end of you know, the government's propaganda and attacks. Really, 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.200 I mean it was really surprised. I mean, I guess 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.480 and since I'm not surprised that it happened, surprising to 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.520 see it in black and white. The last year and 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.079 some have been quite difficult because what's happened over the 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.080 last year and a half and so is that after 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.680 we wrote the Great Banking Nequation, which which we was 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.760 with me Sinetra Gupta from professor at Oxford University, she's 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:45.640 fantastic theoretical epidomologists, uh and and actually practical epidomologists, and 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.200 then Martin Cooldorf at Harvard University, amazing biostatistician. We wrote 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:54.120 this in Octo and the idea was very simple that 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.760 COVID has an enormously bad effect on people who were 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.080 older as also thousandfold increase in the risk of death, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.720 sense of your disease if you are older versus if 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.320 you're young. At the same time, the lockdowns are been devastating, 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.960 just devastatingly harmful. Tens of millions of people thrown into 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:14.480 starvation worldwide, missed cancer screenings resulting in breast cancers that 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.400 are that should have been cut earlier tolling cancers. Psychological 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.520 effects on especially on kids, has been enormous. So we 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.600 called for an end of the lockdowns and focus protection 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.600 for the elderly, especially for the older and other other vulnerable. 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.520 What we hope for was an open conversation with the 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.839 public comp community about how best to protect the old 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.720 older population without a lockdown. Because the idea, but up 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.520 until this one was the only way to protect anybody 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:38.719 was was a lockdown to stop this use and spreading 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.960 that we knew that was not possible because what the 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.000 lockdowns this does is protects a certain class of rich 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:45.880 people who can who can stay from home at work 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.240 and not lose their jobs, and not not anyone else. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:50.680 So we we put this out hoping that were to 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.960 open a conversation. Instead what was we were met with 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.960 It was just this like vilification campaign is campaign to 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.240 say that we wanted the virus to rip society, to 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.119 kill people, as if we were somehow Google that wanted 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.400 to destroy destroy the lives of people. And I was 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.440 I wondered what was the source of that? And the 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.600 Francis Collins emails that were released through a FOIA reveals 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.640 that the NI h with including the head of the 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.359 NIH and Tony Faucci, the head of the n A. 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.440 I d uh. They spread those lies, they worked to 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.680 try to get the media to amplify them, and it 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.920 led to so many interviews with reporters where they're asking 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.680 me why I wanted to let it rip, why I 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:34.320 wanted to hurt immunity strategy, which is which is nonsense? Um. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.919 And it made my life much more difficult with me, 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.600 even with my colleagues who sort of fell for the propaganda. Well, 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.200 and what's so odd is I mean, science is not 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.600 supposed to be this consensus, this group think. I mean, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.720 you're supposed to have diverging opinions. And so when did 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.760 this change? And why do you think it changed? Because 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.880 we we've really seen this take fold in a way 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.320 that is so different you know, times of the past. 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.159 So we're a science today, and how do you think 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.080 that happened? I mean, I think that it's always been 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.360 true for science. Science is such a powerful, beautiful thing. 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.320 It's it's like an engine for producing things that tend 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.799 to be true. Right, So learning learning how the material 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.119 world functions, science is so powerful and so chief, so much, 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.760 But I think what's what's happened over I don't know 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.479 exactly the time frame, but certainly, uh, we've seen this 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:29.000 in during the pandemic. Science has become a thing where 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:33.320 essentially you believe in it just because it's science, rather 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.919 than understanding the mechanisms by which science tends to produce 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.400 truth and so like. You can see this with the 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.720 almost crazy worship of Tony Faucci, or even the way 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.520 he talks about science. He says things like, if you 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.360 disagree with me, you're not simply just disagree with a man, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.600 You're just doing with science itself. He's turned science into 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.880 a god. He's a high priest of science. When he 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.400 says things like that, that's not the right way to 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.840 think about science. At least, it's exactly what you said. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:04.480 Science is a process by which truth reveals itself with 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:09.080 open mindedness, tolerance, uh and and openness. The discussion also 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.000 correction by data. Right, So if you believe A and 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:16.680 I believe B, we disagree, Well, we agree on an 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.480 experiment and it resolves in your it turns out your right, 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.160 And I'm like, oh donn, I'm you're right. And then 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.240 I say, well then you know, buy you dinner or something, 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.320 and then I say see, and we do the next 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.560 thing right. Then slowly over time, by that just open discussion, 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:34.120 we learn things about the real world. Instead, during the pandemic, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.720 what's happened, it's essentially replaced with this attitude you see 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.000 in this letter and also the Trances columns head of 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.640 an NH wrote, and also what Tony Fauci has said 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.280 of science as a dictum as given from on him. 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.840 The science has said X, Y or z. There is 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.120 no fighting over it. There's there's no there's no disagreeing 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.800 over it. There's no recourse to any data that would 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.000 would solve it. Instead, you just propagandize, you demonize people 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.440 to disagree with you, and you push them the outside 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.320 so that that scientific opinion is outside the bounds of 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.560 the polite discussion. I mean, that's essentially exactly what Francis 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.080 Collins and the United did to the Great Parenting Declaration. Well, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.920 and they did this at the beginning of COVID as well, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:18.800 at the beginning of the pandemic, of trying to shut 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:23.040 down any talk about the virus having escaped from the 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.560 Wuhan lab. There. They did it in the lance that 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.119 you had Peter Dazac and a bunch of scientists wrote 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.600 that letter basically trying to shut down any alternative thought 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.959 process of oh no, it had to have come from 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.240 the wet market, which even China is saying that didn't 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.960 happen now, you know, so they try to shut down 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.360 so they're just seems to be this really odd desire 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.360 by the people in charge, people like Dr Fauci, of 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.600 just shutting down any alternative viewpoint in a way that 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.640 is really dangerous, and to me, I think the reason 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.800 why everyone should be concerned about this is what information 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.360 are we not getting? What critical information do we not 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.080 know that is not being share, that is not being 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.960 brought to light that could potentially save lives because of 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.640 this group think, because of the shutting down, because of 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.560 the labeling anything that is outside of what Dr Fauci 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.200 deems acceptable as conspiracy. You know, what information are we 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.079 not learning right now that we need to know? I mean, 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.560 that's that's always the problem when you treat science as 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.200 if it were established out of facts with a high priesthood, right, 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.240 but what if the high priesthood is wrong? How would 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.160 you know? There's no there's no fighting with them reasonably 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.040 with with data and with with reason. Instead, what you 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.880 have is dictims, some of which may be right, someone 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:37.920 which are may be wrong. It's impossible to tell because 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.760 it hasn't been subjected to the test that you normally 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.480 would subject to scientific ideas to Every scientific idea is 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.679 subject to challenge in that same same exact way. It 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:48.920 has to be what do we not know? I and 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.760 I agree with you? Like a great example is this 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.480 this idea that he couldn't have possibly been a lab leak? Right? Well, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:57.760 I mean, in fact it was conspiracy here to even 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.559 suggested for a long time. Uh. The revision on this 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.000 is I think going to be healthy, but a lot 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.280 of the sort of circling of wagons on the lablacate. Frankly, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.719 it smacks of like a cover up to me. Um, 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:11.960 whether there wasn't lablique or not, I don't. I don't 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.400 know for certain. It's hard, it's going to be challenging 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.079 to find out, but certainly we should be allowed to 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.800 ask questions around along those lines. The same thing was like, 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:21.800 actually I worked on a study in the early days 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.320 the epidemic called the Santa Clara Seria Prevalence Study and 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.240 the l A county, Seria prevalence say where What we 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.439 tried to do is figure out how widespread the disease 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.560 was in the in the population um. What we found 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.599 was that in April twenty in Santa Clara and l 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.920 A County there were forty or fifty times more infections 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.880 than cases, which meant a few things. One, the mortality 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.000 Riffin disease was much lower than people have been saying 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.000 because the denominator the number of people infect it was 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:47.880 much higher, but the deaths were the same, So you 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.600 just didn't it didn't. But the second, and equally certain 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.840 probably more important, is that by that meant that it 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:58.000 was so widespread by April there was already too late 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.720 to have a zero COVID kind of policy. We've been following. 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.199 The idea for the policy all along has been a, well, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.400 we just need to suppress the spread of the virus 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.160 down to low enough levels so we can open society again. Well, 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.280 I mean, if you look at the data from April, 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:12.959 there was no chance that was going to be true. 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.480 That successful in most in most places in the world. 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.080 In fact, that's exactly what's happened. Like we've done so 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.640 much to try to lock down and get this virus 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:22.880 down to zero. That we've been unable to stop the 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.240 spread of the disease. We don't have a technology to 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.520 do that. Tony fact, you wrote a letter an email 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.040 about that Santa Clara study that was in an earlier 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.880 email dump from through pain through Foia where he had 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.320 a five pages of redacted the text that was redacted 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.800 about the study. Uh. And he at the end of 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.040 the five pages he said he had a line saying, well, 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:46.920 we should contact one of the authors of the study, 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.199 and it was one of my colleagues who was the 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.640 senior author on the study. He never was contacted. I 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.679 would dearly love to know with those five pages of 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:59.040 redacted text said, because what should have happened in response 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:00.800 to that study and and a whole bunch of other 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.880 share problem studies, is a revision of thinking about what 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.120 the right policy should be. And yet, just like with 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.480 the lab leak, just like with the Great Parents and declaration, 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.040 the NIH closed ranks of CDC closed ranks and decided 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.280 to go full on down the lockdown strategy that's led 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.160 to such a disaster the last two years. Well, and 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.079 so I remember, you know, I was one of the 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.080 people screaming from the rooftops because I was reading stuff 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.520 that Dr e and Edys was writing. I was saying 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.520 the study that you just talked about that you worked 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.839 out at a Santa Clara, And then we had also, 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.360 I think closely after that, there was this study at 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.440 in New York. There was also Miami Dade County, and 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.240 all of it was sort of saying the same thing 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.439 that we were missing cases by, like you know, I 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.800 think it was something like ten to sixty five fold 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.440 or something, which means that it's a lot less deadly 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.079 than we originally thought. And then you had also I 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.200 think it was New York's own data was saying that 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.920 the majority of the new hospitalizations were people who are 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:55.560 staying at home. So to your point, we had all 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.080 this information in front of us that the decisions we 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.080 were making were the wrong ones. Yet will uh, you know, 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.959 continue down that road. But you know, here we are 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.800 again sort of in the same position where we have 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.640 this new variant out that is seemingly as contagious as 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.520 the measles. Yet they're still trying to revise the old 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.400 bag of tricks to stop something that we can't stop. Yeah, 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:19.920 I mean, I think I mean, the problem is that 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:25.040 it's exposed to actual discussion and data. The people who 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.120 have supported the lockdowns really have no argument, right. They'll 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.480 point to places like Australian New Zealand say well, look 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.480 they got to zero, but in fact they didn't get 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.320 to zero. You can see the cases exploding Australia now, 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.440 um that the the you can see the cases coming back. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.160 They've had more lockdown days than any place on Earth. Um. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.880 And yet the disease is still floating around the way 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.920 that that that the lockdowners have behaved, It's as if 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.560 they said, well, there was no other possible alternative response 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.000 to this this virus other than to to do the 0:13:55.160 --> 0:14:00.520 kind of school closures and church closures and and closing 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:05.600 businesses and uh and and sort of ending normal civic life. Well, 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.440 that didn't work. Was a complete disaster for the poor 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.160 the vulnerable, both in the both in devest in the 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.480 developed world and the developing world. To pretend as if 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.120 we had no choice, that that that wasn't actually policy 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.520 choice is completely disingenuous. And in order to maintain the 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.720 illusion that we had no choice, they had to shut 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.640 down the scientific debate about it, and so that the campaign, 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.280 the propaganda campaign about the Great brand and Declaration, essentially 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.560 the similar kind of uh shutting down a debate around 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.320 how widespread the virus actually was with the serial prevalence. 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.520 By the way, there's now a hundreds of more of 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.280 these studies that found basically the same thing, like a 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.640 huge of a very large fraction of of cases that 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.760 affection is not identified and disease more widespread than realized. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.000 UM and that's been tree is said from the beginning 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.160 of the epidemic. UH so that they had to shut 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.200 that debate down in order to get the policy through 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.760 because if that policy was subject to old reason, no 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.440 one would have gone for it. Instead, they relied on 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.080 panicking the population to generate support for a policy that 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.080 is utterly destructed. Quit commercial break more with Dr J 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:18.080 Baicharia on the other side, where do you think we 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.760 would be today if we had followed the Great Barrington 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.440 Declaration and protected the elderly and essentially allowed you know, 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.040 the rest of society to go back to life. I 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.480 think we've had many, many, many fewer deaths from the 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.680 virus itself because we would have we would have protected 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.120 better protected the elderly. It's not I don't think there 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.040 would have been zero desk because this is a terrible 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.520 virus and it's really hard to stop. But we managed 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.960 to protect the laptop class. That was the policy we followed. 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.120 We shielded the laptop class. We could instead have thought 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.760 to ours I've thought about how best to protect the 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.640 actually vulnerable, so we would have many fewer deaths from 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.560 the virus. We actually might even had less of this 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.560 viral evolution. And then the other thing that we would 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.680 have had is we would have had an enormously uh 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.520 less damage from the lockdown arms. Right, kids would have 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.720 spent the last year and a half year year and 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:13.080 some in school rather than uh quote learning from home, 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.960 as if it's really possible to do that. So kids 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.640 would be leading better lives as a result of it. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:20.880 And by the way, that will have long term impacts 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:22.800 that we have. We have kids that can't read, we 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.640 have kids is going to collapse in in learning. UM 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.480 that has long term impacts on the lives. Just tragic 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:35.120 increase in depression and anxiety and kids and young adults. UM, 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.200 we would have avoided all of that. We would have 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.200 avoided the there's now I mean, there's data that show 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.480 that tens of millions of people around the world are 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:47.440 starving as a consequence of these lockdowns, tens of millions. Um, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.200 you know, because you do. You have a country, a 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.760 poor country, many people on the verge of poverty. They 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.720 restructure their economies to fit into the global economy over 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.680 the last twenty years, lifting a billion people out of 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.040 poverty over twenty years. Overnight, we we reneged on those 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.840 promises and as it result, tens of millions of people, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.480 their income drops below one to two dollars a day 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.800 and they start and that's exactly what's happened. Um, those 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.920 those lives would have been saved. Hundreds of thousands of 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.199 children in South Asia, corning to report in the by 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.920 the u N and March this year, have already starved 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.520 to death. Right, So you have like all that collateral 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.800 harm that's going to have consequences for decades avoided if 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.080 we follow the Great branch and Declaration. You talked about 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.800 the evolution of the virus or the vaccines to blame 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.920 for that. I've seen the argument made that we have 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:43.199 leaky vaccines that don't provide immunity, don't stop transmission, and 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.439 therefore or you know, have led to this new variant 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.880 of macron. What are your thoughts on that. I mean, 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.560 the evolution of the virus is hard to predict, but 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.199 it responds to the environment that it sees, right, So 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:02.440 the virus UM when you have a vaccinated population UM, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.320 there it creates an ecological niche where a variant to 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.440 the virus that can infect the vaccinated UH is more 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.159 likely to succeed in stead of replicating itself. UM. So 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.600 it wouldn't be surprising that to me to find a 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.400 widespread vaccination with a vaccine that doesn't stop dis ease 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.520 spread could have contributed to this evolutionary process and and 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.200 moved the viral evolution along a certain line. If we 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.160 followed the Great par interacoration, the pandemic wad it over 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.920 earlier because what would have happened is is that through 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:39.800 normal activity, younger populations would have had more exposure to 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:41.960 the virus. Is just I mean, that's just a normal way. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.280 But because the harm to younger people from being exposed 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.560 to virus is so much lower than the old they 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.000 would have died at much lower rates and they wouldn't 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.240 have been exposed to the lockdown harms, and so thus 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.840 would have been benefited from from the policy. It's hard 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.000 to say exactly with any kind of precision, because you 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.399 have to play this game of like what if, and 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.560 play the game of what evolution would have looked like 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.159 had we gone down a different path. But it is 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.679 clear that the policy itself, both of the vaccination and 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.119 also the lockdowns, changed the path of our evolution. Well, 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.320 and what's interesting is there used to be this game 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.160 of oh, it's the unvaccinated's fault, you know, these dirty 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.160 unvaccinated people. And now that you have vaccinated and even 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.359 people who are just recently boosted to get it, you know, 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.760 now it's, oh, it's no one's fault, it's you know, 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:31.280 the dynamics and the conversation have completely changed surrounding COVID 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.600 now that we're saying that the vaccines aren't protecting people 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.120 from getting COVID at this current moment. Yeah, I mean, 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.119 it's it's unfortunate. We should never have come to a 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.080 point where public counsel was promoting the idea that it's 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.480 somebody's fault to get sick. We don't make you feel 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.320 guilty for being sick. That is that is bad medicine, 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.119 and that's about bad public heuple we do is we 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.640 treat people who get sick with compassion. That's the right 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:56.800 way to message around it. And if we have a 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.800 messaging strategy, it leads people to believe that anyone who 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.960 gets sick is somehow lesser or somehow it hasn't been 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.760 careful or is I mean essentially other. That is bad 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.160 public health and that's clearly what's happened in the last 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.159 two years. And so now to see a reversion to 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:13.720 that and say, well, it's not your faults, you've got 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:17.160 sick as soon as the laptop class starts getting sick, um, 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.240 I just it's frustrating. I mean, of course it is true. 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:22.680 That is the laptop class is not stop the fault 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.439 for getting sick. This is a this is a vexious 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.840 virus that spreads very easily and so it's very hard 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.800 to hard to protect yourself from it. So it's not 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.480 their fault. But it does strike me as as curious 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.440 that now we're finally getting that message from public health, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.760 and we should have been getting that message all along. Really, 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.119