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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody comes see us, because we're coming to see you. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: if you live in Chicago. On July, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: at the Harris Theater, and the following night we're going

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Speaker 1: to be at the Dan Fourth Music Hall in Toronto.

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Speaker 1: And that's just the beginning, that's right. We're also going

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Speaker 1: to our beloved Wilburt Theater, which we own in Boston

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Speaker 1: on October twenty nine, and then our first visit to Portland,

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Speaker 1: Maine at the State Theater in August. Yep. That's going

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Speaker 1: to be followed in October. We're gonna take a little

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Speaker 1: break because that's a lot of touring in October. On

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Speaker 1: the ninth we're going to be at the Plaza Live

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Speaker 1: in Orlando, and then on October ten, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: at the Civic Theater in New Orleans, that's right. And

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Speaker 1: in October we're gonna round it all out at the

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Speaker 1: Bellhouse in Brooklyn for three shows October yep. So go

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Speaker 1: to s Y s K live dot com for tickets

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Speaker 1: and information and we will see you starting this July

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Speaker 1: in Chicago. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chook Bryant,

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Speaker 1: and there's Jared Dog the road Land of All Time

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Speaker 1: over there, and this is stuff you should know. I

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Speaker 1: gotta pep it up a little bit, you know? Is

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Speaker 1: that what that was? You gotta screw it up a

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Speaker 1: little bit, That's what I meant to say, speaking of

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Speaker 1: screwing up Chicago, Illinois, screwing up it is I was.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to think about this, like which approach

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Speaker 1: should we take. Should we should we just outright lie

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Speaker 1: and say, like, there's very few tickets left, so you

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Speaker 1: better go get them now now? Or should we shame

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Speaker 1: them and say there are plenty of tickets left, a

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Speaker 1: disappointing amount of tickets left. I think we should just

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Speaker 1: be honest and not shame them, but express our disappointment.

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Speaker 1: Nothing works better then disappointment. You know, Chicago, we really

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Speaker 1: expected a little more from you than this. So if

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Speaker 1: you're confused about what we're talking about, probably because you

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Speaker 1: haven't heard, and that's our fault. About our live shows

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Speaker 1: coming up all around the country. Two cities we've never

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Speaker 1: been to before. Yeah, yeah, we've never been to Orlando before.

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Speaker 1: We've never been to Portland, Maine before, that's right. But

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Speaker 1: we are going to Chicago again because we thought Chicago

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Speaker 1: loved us in July at the Harris Theater and then

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Speaker 1: Toronto the next night on July. They're buying a lot

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Speaker 1: of tickets. They love us up there. Yeah, at the

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Speaker 1: Day and fourth. Uh. And then Boston August twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: Portland May and August, Orlando and New Orleans October nine

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Speaker 1: and ten, and then Brooklyn October three night run at

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Speaker 1: the Bellhouse in Brooklyn, which is gonna be great. But again, Toronto,

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Speaker 1: you're doing great, guys. Keep it up. Chicago, you could

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Speaker 1: and to step it up a little bit. You've got

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Speaker 1: a little bit of time. But why wait you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the seats are only going to get worse.

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Speaker 1: True dat, Chuck, true dat. So just go to s

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Speaker 1: y s K Live for our home or touring home

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Speaker 1: on the web thanks to our buddies at squarespace. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh now let's talk about the fairness doctrine. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we actually need to um. If this were say, pre seven,

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Speaker 1: we would need to have Jerry come in and say, so,

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Speaker 1: here's all the reasons why you shouldn't buy tickets to

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know live if we were going to

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Speaker 1: follow the fairness doctrine. But it's not. And as a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, I wonder how podcasting would how this

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Speaker 1: would apply or have applied to podcasting if it had

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Speaker 1: still been around, or if podcasting would have been one

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Speaker 1: of those things that kind of grew up around the

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Speaker 1: fairness doctrine. Who knows, but it's a fascinating Um what

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Speaker 1: are those called? When uh, when an impossible Sure there's

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Speaker 1: another word for it, when it's something that just can't

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Speaker 1: possibly happen, kind of like speculative fiction or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. But you know, since podcast don't fall

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Speaker 1: under the FCC, then doubt if it would have mattered.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess that's that's true. Huh, Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: could if we wanted to. Right now, we could say

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Speaker 1: every curse word, every awful thing in the world under

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Speaker 1: the sun. We elect not to do that everyone. I

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Speaker 1: heard a radio DJ the other day say, um, I

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Speaker 1: know you want to curse so bad right now, this

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Speaker 1: is why we're getting a podcast, And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess we could. I guess we could curse, but

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Speaker 1: it's I like that we don't chuck. I do too.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to hear me curse just a

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Speaker 1: you can come to a live show true because it

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Speaker 1: happens a little bit, or be you can just join

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Speaker 1: me over at movie crush. I cuss had a lot

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Speaker 1: over there. Yeah. I think at first people were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: and then now I think people go listen in part

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Speaker 1: to hear you curse. They like to hear that blue

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Speaker 1: streak coming out of the real me. Oh, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to think that both sides are the real You put

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Speaker 1: together well for roughly two and a half hours a week,

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Speaker 1: this is the real me. Do you find it difficult

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Speaker 1: not to curse on on the show? Uh? No, I

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Speaker 1: mean I'm fully used to it by now, but I

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Speaker 1: definitely am not as fully freewheeling as I normally am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess I should say I want to give the

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Speaker 1: impression that I'm like some you know, Flanders type or whatever,

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Speaker 1: curse pretty routinely myself in regular life. But I guess

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Speaker 1: I find a kind of comforting just knowing that there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a safe space where I don't say, the

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Speaker 1: afford a lot. You should start another podcast just called

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Speaker 1: filth Floren Filth with Josh Clark. Okay, that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good idea. But none of this has to do with

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Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties except for the fact that people did

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Speaker 1: not curse on the radio back then either because there

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Speaker 1: weren't a lot of people on the radio in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties. No, actually, pre or early early early nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 1: that is, right pre November nine, there was not much

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Speaker 1: going on on the radio aside from Morse Code, some

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Speaker 1: Ham Radio operators, and remember we did a pretty good

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Speaker 1: episode on Ham Radio, remember correctly. Yeah, Well, one of

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Speaker 1: the things I remember about that Ham Radio episode is

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Speaker 1: that there was a kind of a whole hacker antarchic

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Speaker 1: ethos um surrounding the early days of radio. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just a total free for all. You can broadcast

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Speaker 1: on whatever station you wanted to and get in arguments with,

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Speaker 1: you know, the government if you wanted to, who who

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Speaker 1: cared there was. There was not a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: to trace anybody. So there was a lot of anything

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Speaker 1: goes mentality among the early Ham radio operators. But but

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Speaker 1: that was basically all you would hear is people saying like, um, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: how's it kind of thing. You know, maybe some heavy breathing.

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Speaker 1: And then in November, station called k d k A

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Speaker 1: actually organized itself and the first broadcast UM that it

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Speaker 1: put out was reading the election results from the James

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Speaker 1: Cock James Cox, Oh my gosh, I almost just violated

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Speaker 1: FCC rules dirty talk James Cox, Uh, Warren Harding presidential election.

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Speaker 1: It was the first commercial UM licensed radio broadcast in

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Speaker 1: the world. I think, yeah, I think that's a great

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Speaker 1: trivia question if someone were to say, what was what

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Speaker 1: city you know hosted or whatever was part of the

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Speaker 1: first radio commercial radio broadcast Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, uh, And the

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Speaker 1: follow up would be, and what did they broadcast federal

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Speaker 1: a presidential election outcome? Which was a big deal because

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Speaker 1: it's weird to think about in ninety that people all

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Speaker 1: over the country we're waiting for that morning paper to

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Speaker 1: come out. Except in Pittsburgh. They knew, right, they did know,

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Speaker 1: And not everybody in Pittsburgh, just the people who had

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Speaker 1: basically built their own radios because that was the radios

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Speaker 1: that were around. They were pretty much pretty much. But

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Speaker 1: the fact that this happened in words spread pretty quickly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: some people in Pittsburgh knew the election results because they

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Speaker 1: were listening to the radio, and they ran around yelling

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Speaker 1: that out and said we heard it on a radio,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's like these people, lock them up. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: also other little known fact, the first song played on

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Speaker 1: the radio was Radio Killed the newspaper Star. Did you

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Speaker 1: just make that up? Or did you have that prep?

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Speaker 1: I just made it up? Okay, good job, thank you,

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Speaker 1: man Um, I'm glad I got like that. Grudging good

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Speaker 1: job because there was almost contempt in that first initial well,

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Speaker 1: because off the cuff, that's a great joke. But if

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Speaker 1: he works up that for a few hours, then I

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Speaker 1: nont no. When's the last time I workeshop the joke?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, you don't let you keep it

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Speaker 1: a close to the guarded secret. So okay. So here's

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Speaker 1: the point. This is the reason we're even talking about

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Speaker 1: that first broadcast is because that was November ninety. By

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Speaker 1: nine four, I think they're in in in like twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand radios n four. There are one and a half

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Speaker 1: million radios in the United States. By nineteen thirty eight

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Speaker 1: of every household in America had a radio, and so

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Speaker 1: there was this massive transition from distributing news and making

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Speaker 1: sure everybody was up to date on all the information

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Speaker 1: they needed to be like a smart voter or hold

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Speaker 1: like political or social or cultural opinions. Um. That transition

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Speaker 1: moved from newspapers from print, which still hung around, but

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Speaker 1: over to radio. Radio became team much um, much more

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Speaker 1: prevalent as far as the spread of information to an

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Speaker 1: increasingly large number of people went in the United States

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Speaker 1: in a very short time, in like twenty years. Yeah. So, um,

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties, the FCC and you know, there's

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Speaker 1: some background to all this that will get to but

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Speaker 1: we haven't even really said what the fairness doctrine is yet. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Finally in ninete um that the US government said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, we need some help here. We're a little

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Speaker 1: bit worried that um geez, somebody could some private citizen

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Speaker 1: who's wealthy could go and buy all the radio stations

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Speaker 1: and essentially propagandize the news and there's nothing we can

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Speaker 1: do about it. Yeah. So basically what they said was this,

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Speaker 1: there is one thing we can do about it. We

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Speaker 1: can flex our muscle as the government and specifically say

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Speaker 1: you broadcasters can't do that, that's right. Via something called

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Speaker 1: the Fairness Doctrine, which had the overall goal of basically,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's very kind of cute to look back

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Speaker 1: at this time period, but its initial goal was to

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Speaker 1: make sure that all the information on the on the

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Speaker 1: radio waves was good information and true and fair and enriching.

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Speaker 1: And there there's only so much space on a radio dial.

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Speaker 1: So and this is this is very critical that there

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Speaker 1: were a limited number of frequencies available. Yes, frequency scarcity.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that's just put a pin in that,

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Speaker 1: because that's a very big deal. Is how this waighed

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Speaker 1: in the favor of the fairness doctrine and then also

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Speaker 1: kind of helped kill it in some ways. But basically,

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Speaker 1: the very progressive you that public interest outweigh private interest

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Speaker 1: in the public has a right to really good information

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Speaker 1: over the free speech of the broadcaster. Even yes, so

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Speaker 1: you just you just hit it right on the head

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Speaker 1: like that is the crux of the fairness doc drin

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Speaker 1: And it seems like okay, depending on your viewpoint, either

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Speaker 1: either like the most um vile idea ever or just

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Speaker 1: a completely sensible idea. And the reason that it can

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Speaker 1: present the same these two totally different um opinions is

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Speaker 1: because this idea, the fairness doctrine, is it sits right

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Speaker 1: at the heart of the difference between the right and

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Speaker 1: the left, between conservativism and libertarianism and and liberalism right,

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Speaker 1: and it is it comes down to this, like if

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Speaker 1: you if you have to promote um public intercourse, like

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Speaker 1: people understanding not doing it in public, but I mean discourse,

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Speaker 1: the public intercourse. So yeah, I guess doing it in

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Speaker 1: public if you're going to promote public discourse and protected

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Speaker 1: as a government saying like the the like, it's the

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Speaker 1: role of government to say, we need to make sure

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Speaker 1: that the quality of the information that's getting out there

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Speaker 1: is protected, and and that we have to do that.

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Speaker 1: We have to limit what broadcasters can say. We have

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Speaker 1: to curtail free speech. Two people on the right like,

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Speaker 1: right there, full stop. That's a problem. That's an issue.

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Speaker 1: It's it has fatally flawed because you are curtailing the

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Speaker 1: free speech of somebody, whether it's a whether it's NBC

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Speaker 1: or Joe Schmo who wants to say something on the radio.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. You're curtailing free speech, and therefore that

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Speaker 1: is wrong. People on the left say, well, whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 1: this is the this is this is a privilege to

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Speaker 1: broadcast on the radio. And in order to protect the

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Speaker 1: larger public and its interests, we have to curtail that

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Speaker 1: free speech of the very narrowed money, moneyed interests that

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Speaker 1: can afford a license to broadcasts. And and there's no

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Speaker 1: way to reconcile the two. You can't. It's you have

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Speaker 1: to choose a side. You have to form an opinion

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Speaker 1: one way or the other. And whatever you choose is

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Speaker 1: your larger view of whether you're a liberal or whether

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Speaker 1: you're conservative. Yeah, pretty much. Um, I mean it fell

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Speaker 1: along those lines back then and stilled us today. Even

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Speaker 1: though the fairness doctrine isn't around, the ideology is, well,

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Speaker 1: it keeps getting brought out and kind of you know, um,

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Speaker 1: forced along a like an angry parade route and in

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Speaker 1: order to kind of say like, look, look, look what

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Speaker 1: the government is capable of doing. Look at the overreach

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Speaker 1: they really want to do. Don't let them do it

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Speaker 1: again with X. You know. So it is. It's a

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Speaker 1: huge flashpoint. And it's understandable why it seems like so

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Speaker 1: um kind of limp and bureaucratic and boring. But when

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Speaker 1: you dig into the history of the whole thing and

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Speaker 1: even the contemporary idea behind it, it's a huge flashpoint

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Speaker 1: politically in the United States. Yeah. So it had a

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Speaker 1: couple of main components, and then within that a cup

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Speaker 1: of big, big rules, very important rules. The first the

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Speaker 1: components were UM They were known together as the fairness rule,

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Speaker 1: which is, private broadcasters must report on my matters of

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Speaker 1: public interest, like it's a responsibility of you as a broadcaster,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. And private broadcasters must cover opposing perspectives

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Speaker 1: regarding that public interest. It's a that's a big one.

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Speaker 1: And then the little rules there, the personal attack rules

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Speaker 1: said that if you're a broadcaster and you are going

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Speaker 1: to run a negative story UM on somebody or something

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Speaker 1: prior to that, you have to let these people know

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Speaker 1: or this organization know and give them time to respond

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Speaker 1: on the air. And then the political editorial rule, which

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Speaker 1: is private broadcasters that air editorial programming that endorses a

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Speaker 1: political candidate must inform other candidates and offer them time

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Speaker 1: to respond on air. Uh. Not to be confused with

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Speaker 1: the equal time rule, that's that's different. Yeah. The equal

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Speaker 1: time rule is is why debates UM have are supposed

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Speaker 1: to have all candidates, because you're supposed to if you

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Speaker 1: give one candidate time air time to say, hey, here's

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Speaker 1: my platform. You're supposed to give all other candidates the

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Speaker 1: equal amount of time, and that that political editorial rule

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Speaker 1: kind of it's close to it, and it follows in

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Speaker 1: the same tradition and principle. But really the personal attack

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Speaker 1: role and the political editorial rule that we're part of

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Speaker 1: the fairness doctrine, that's just like the foundation of of

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Speaker 1: good journalism. Basically, it was not they're not radical ideas.

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Speaker 1: That's good point. So the idea though that that public

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Speaker 1: that are that private broadcasters have to talk about issues

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Speaker 1: and then have to air opposing viewpoints, that is that

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Speaker 1: is kind of controversial because it's saying like he we

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Speaker 1: we the government are saying you have to do this,

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Speaker 1: this is your responsibility. And the idea that the government

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Speaker 1: even has control over air waves is is in dispute,

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Speaker 1: but it actually dates pretty are back and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the background, the backstory behind the fairness doctrine after

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Speaker 1: a message. How about that? It sounds good, okay, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: So there there's one thing to really understand what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about here. Initially we're talking about radio waves and

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Speaker 1: then eventually TV waves, and then that eventually turned into

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Speaker 1: the Internet. But all these things, especially something like air

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Speaker 1: air waves for a radio and TV, these exist naturally, right,

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Speaker 1: There's not like a government factory that produces radio waves

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Speaker 1: and then the government can say, well, we we produce these,

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Speaker 1: so we can divu that's a it's it's an artificial

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Speaker 1: idea that the government can say we regulate these air

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Speaker 1: waves because it's citizens listening to the stuff that's broadcast

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Speaker 1: on the airwaves, and it's private companies broadcasting on the

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Speaker 1: airwaves using equipment that's manufactured by other private companies. So

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Speaker 1: the government is insinuating itself and saying, well, well, this

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Speaker 1: is too important to leave to the market. We have

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Speaker 1: to regulate this in some ways, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: do that. And the whole thing actually started, um with

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Speaker 1: the Titanic, to tell you the truth, the Titanic ship,

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Speaker 1: the Titanic ship, the very one ship that's right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Leading up to the Titanic, you know, radio is being used,

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Speaker 1: um and quite a bit a maritime communication. Uh. In fact,

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Speaker 1: we even passed the Ship Act of nineteen ten, which

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Speaker 1: required ships leaving the United States to have radio equipment

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Speaker 1: to know how to use it, uh, and sort of

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Speaker 1: laid out some basic broadcasting standards. But what they didn't

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Speaker 1: do was say, all right, we're gonna signed radio frequencies um,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna like reserve a channel for emergencies only. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This kind of stung them because a couple of years

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Speaker 1: after that, a little boat called the RMS Titanic ship

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Speaker 1: the Titanic, it wasn't a little boat, it was a

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Speaker 1: ocean liner. Sure, I used to know the difference between

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Speaker 1: ocean liner and a cruise ship. I think ocean liners

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Speaker 1: are trans atlantic. Is that is that the deal? I've

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Speaker 1: never heard the difference. I think that's it the same

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Speaker 1: or something. And I think an ocean liner specifically can

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Speaker 1: cross the two different continents. I got Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: the cruise ship could just hug the coast or something

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Speaker 1: like that. But I might be making all that up. So, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Titanic sank. There was a lot of radio traffic

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Speaker 1: going on as the disaster breaks out, obviously, so even

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Speaker 1: though this uh in Newfoundland they heard very early on

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Speaker 1: and picked up this distress call, they couldn't really get

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Speaker 1: it out because everything was all clogged up. Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of ham radio operators screwing things up

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Speaker 1: at the time. That's right, and that's what prompted the

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Speaker 1: Radio Act of nineteen twelve UM, which was sort of

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Speaker 1: the beginnings of the foundation of what would eventually become

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Speaker 1: the Fairness doctrine, because what it did was it established

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Speaker 1: spectrum allocation and the FCC basically said, hey, listen, uh,

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Speaker 1: if you want to broadcast, you can't just broadcast. You

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Speaker 1: gotta come to us and get a license. Yeah. Initially

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Speaker 1: it was the Commerce Department that was that was um

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Speaker 1: issuing licenses, and then came the Radio Act of that

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Speaker 1: formed the Radio Commission, and they started handling licenses. But

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Speaker 1: not only did they start saying, Okay, you're a broadcaster,

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Speaker 1: here's your license, this is the frequency that you can

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Speaker 1: um broadcast on. Prior to that that was around in

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Speaker 1: the Radio Act, that was the Commerce Department that did that,

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Speaker 1: but there was no way to police it. And so

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Speaker 1: if you were say NBC Radio and the there were

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people broadcasting on your frequency at seven pm,

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Speaker 1: you just switched to Yeah, well no, you just switched

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Speaker 1: to a different frequency and start broadcasting, and so there's

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Speaker 1: no way to police it. Well, with the Radio Act

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Speaker 1: of and the creation is Radio Commission, there was a

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Speaker 1: way to police it, because you could have your license

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Speaker 1: revoked and if you kept broadcasting, guys would come to

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Speaker 1: your house and kidnap your family. Yeah. But the really

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Speaker 1: important thing, and this is how it uh not your family.

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Speaker 1: The really important thing was that established what we talked

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Speaker 1: about before, which is spectrum scarcity. There's only so much

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Speaker 1: space now if everyone has to apply for a license,

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Speaker 1: who wants to broadcast? UM, It's just it's it was

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Speaker 1: very key in in the setup and then, like I said,

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Speaker 1: eventual downfall of the fairness doctrine. Yeah, because it says

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Speaker 1: this like, Okay, here's the full here's the full spectrum

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Speaker 1: the radio spectrum that we can broadcast on UM, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to carve it up and each person gets

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Speaker 1: a specific frequency to broadcast on. That's that means that

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Speaker 1: there's a finite number of frequencies. So there's a finite

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Speaker 1: number of licenses, which means that not everybody can have

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Speaker 1: a a license to broadcast. Which means that that the

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Speaker 1: people who do have that license to broadcast have a

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Speaker 1: very important privilege afforded to them. And because it's a

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Speaker 1: privilege because the government has insinuated itself and said we're

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Speaker 1: doling out these privileges. We've decided we the government have

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Speaker 1: decided that that you have a responsibility to present fair

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Speaker 1: and balanced reporting to the government to the public, including

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Speaker 1: basically all sides of an issue, like you have a

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Speaker 1: responsibility that supersedes your right to free speech as a broadcaster.

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Speaker 1: That was That's what Spectrum scarcity created, right. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: radio act Um. While it did establish that, it kind

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Speaker 1: of made some errors basically and how they set it up.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of misspellings. Yeah, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of misspellings. But they would say basically to the broadcasters,

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Speaker 1: you have to air content in support of quote, public convenience,

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Speaker 1: interest or necessity end quote. But they didn't really define

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Speaker 1: what that was, which, by by the way I looked

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Speaker 1: at up, I was like, what does public convenience mean?

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Speaker 1: Apparently the UK it means a public toilet and that's

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Speaker 1: the only definition I could ever find for it. So

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Speaker 1: somebody just made that up. The air content about public

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Speaker 1: toilets actually like that apart from naked gun it's just

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Speaker 1: nothing but the sounds of people peeing. Um. But this

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Speaker 1: is a big problem because if something isn't clearly defined,

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Speaker 1: then it can't be Uh, it can't be enforced, right,

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Speaker 1: you know. So in they knew that this was a problem.

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Speaker 1: This was how many years later, like seven years later,

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Speaker 1: and they said, you know what, we need to issue

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Speaker 1: another act because we're the federal government. And so the

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Speaker 1: Federal Communications Act replaced the Radio Act, the FEC was born,

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Speaker 1: replaced the Radio Commission, and the f SEC said, all right,

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Speaker 1: the first thing we gotta do is define what this

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Speaker 1: public interest thing is all about, right, because not only

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Speaker 1: does it make it difficult to enforce, it makes it

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Speaker 1: difficult to follow. So like, even if you're a broadcasting

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Speaker 1: you're like, I totally agree with this. I do have

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Speaker 1: a right and responsibility. Uh, what's this public public convenience thing? Again?

401
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Speaker 1: Like how do I do this? What am I supposed

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Speaker 1: to be doing? And if it's not defined, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can't enforce it. You also can't follow it if you

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Speaker 1: want to follow it. So there was just too much

405
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Speaker 1: gray area. And so the FCC um when this was created,

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Speaker 1: this idea of um, okay, we're gonna set about create

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Speaker 1: like defining this stuff and really generating this idea of

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Speaker 1: what it means to be a responsible broadcaster. It happened

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Speaker 1: at a really liberal time in America's history, right after

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Speaker 1: the New Deal had really kind of come along and

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Speaker 1: changed the complexion of America pretty dramatically, and liberalism and

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Speaker 1: progressivism had really set in and was entrenched in the

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Speaker 1: fabric of American politics. And so there was this idea

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Speaker 1: that the best way to prevent broadcasters from from asserting

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Speaker 1: and overbearing influence on public discourse because they had the

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Speaker 1: loudest voice, because they had the radio licenses right, was

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Speaker 1: to just say, you guys can't editorialize at all. And

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Speaker 1: this became known as the Mayflower Decision or the Mayflower doctrine.

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Speaker 1: It was a nineteen forty one FCC ruling that basically said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, um, you guys, you guys have to

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Speaker 1: basically be neutral in that you can't you can't say anything,

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Speaker 1: you can't present any particular side. If we find out

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Speaker 1: that you guys are promoting, say the policy agenda or

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Speaker 1: the favorite politics of like your station owner or your

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Speaker 1: parent company or something like that, you're trouble. And that

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Speaker 1: was kind of like the the the line that they

427
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: drew no editorializing whatsoever, that's right, and that um, that

428
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: really sort of laid the groundwork in a big, big

429
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: way for the fairness doctrine, even though the fairness doctrine

430
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: sort of undid that and said, well, you know, editor

431
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: you can editorialize, but you just have to do it

432
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: on both sides, right, you have to present present, prevent

433
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: present both sides. And like, on the one hand, that

434
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: was a gift to the to the broadcasters right there

435
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: saying okay, you can you can use your own voice,

436
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 1: you can state your own opinion, you can support your

437
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: own political candidate, but you have to give air time

438
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: to the other political candidate. You have to give air

439
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: time to people with an opposing view of what you

440
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: just said. So it was it was kind of like

441
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: a compromise, but it was also a weakening of the

442
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: progressivist agenda, I guess yeah. And the broadcasters did not

443
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: like it for sure, because again they were still sort

444
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: of confused about what what is public and poor didn't

445
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: mean we're not even sure you know, everything is decided

446
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: and applied on a case by case basis in other words, yeah,

447
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: in other words, if somebody, uh just files a complaint,

448
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: basically they will take up that complaint and hear that complaint.

449
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like some like big sweeping thing. No,

450
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: but it was also Chuck, that's so that that means

451
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: that it's um, it's a capricious an arbitrary basically applying

452
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: the rule on a case by case basis rather than

453
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,239
Speaker 1: a sweeping regulation. But it's also a weakness because it

454
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: means that the SEC is saying, we'll leave it to you,

455
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: the broadcasters, to police yourselves. We're only gonna act when

456
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: somebody complains. Yeah, So what happened in a lot of

457
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: cases was some radio stations were like, you know what,

458
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna go there, and I'm gonna avoid

459
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: controversy um at all, you know altogether, because I don't

460
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: think we pointed out, uh, it wasn't just about politics.

461
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: It was basically covered controversial issues in general, like and

462
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: that this will play a big part, like everything from

463
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: climate denial to the anti vax movement in the nineteen eighties,

464
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: Like they all had to have equal time under the

465
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: fairness doctrine. And a lot of people point to the

466
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: fairness doctrine as like how these movements got jumped started

467
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: to begin with because they didn't put those opinions in context.

468
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: They were just like, you know, they didn't say this

469
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: is very scientifically valid and now here's the opposing viewpoint

470
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: which has no science to back it up, right exactly,

471
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: And and that was the fact that they didn't do that.

472
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: They were airing on the side of caution UM over editorializing,

473
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: but also probably they were trying to make sure that

474
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: everybody was was not offended. They didn't offend either side

475
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: because they didn't want to be boycotted with advertising to

476
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: or find sure. Yeah, so that was a big problem

477
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: with the fairness doctrine is that it was ill defined.

478
00:28:54,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: It was opened the door for opposing viewpoints that that

479
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: that put them on equal footing or equal ground with

480
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: with UM with other viewpoints that were saying scientifically backed,

481
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: which created what's called the false balance problem. UM. And

482
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: then uh, there was opposition to it to basically the

483
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: to the fairness doctrine from from the outset, not just

484
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: the broadcasters who thought they didn't want any kind of

485
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: restriction on their speech, but also interestingly UM it represented

486
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: an loophole to combat advertising too, which I think the

487
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: FEC hadn't thought of, but they said, yeah, this actually

488
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: applies when it when it came up, there was UM

489
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: a ruling in nineteen sixty seven that found that cigarette

490
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: advertising um qualified as a um uh a presentation of

491
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: one viewpoint of a controversial subject. Basically, cigarette smoking is great,

492
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: Go go smoke some cigarettes. And so some consumer groups

493
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: uh petition the FCC and say, hey, we should be

494
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: able to give the opposing viewpoint, don't smoke cigarettes, it's

495
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: bad for you, and that SEC said you're absolutely right,

496
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: and advertiser was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, this

497
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: is a big deal. And now they jumped in to

498
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: back up the National Association of Broadcasters, which was opposed

499
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: to the fairness doctrine in general. Yeah, and it also

500
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing, if advertising counts, set

501
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: opens the doors, and it did for you know, like uh,

502
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll get to this more specifically later. But

503
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: like if a power company wanted to do an ad

504
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: about their great new nuclear power plant that they were

505
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: going to build, like a liberal group can come forward

506
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: and say no, no, no, like that's not an ad. Um.

507
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: I know, they're paying for airspace, but that means we

508
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: need to talk about the ills of nuclear power, right right.

509
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: And I mean even if it wasn't at the opposing

510
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: group could say we get free air time to say

511
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: that this is the opposite of that. And so if

512
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: you're a broadcaster, especially if you're in a like a

513
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: successful market that you know fifteen thirty sixties second spot

514
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: is important, you don't want to give that away. But

515
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: it may also you may have like an interest in

516
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: whatever the other group is protesting. So just on that

517
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: in that respect as well, you don't really want to

518
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: air the opposing view. The problem with the fairness Doctor,

519
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: and if you're libertarian or conservative is that it said

520
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: you have to do that. You have to air this

521
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: opposing view. The SEC says, so that's right. So you

522
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: gotta think this is gonna end up in court at

523
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: some point, and it did quite quite a few times

524
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: over the years, not surprisingly uh and for about a

525
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: twenty to thirty year period US courts basically supported the

526
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: fcc UH in fulfilling this mandate. Um there were some

527
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: some real highlights in nineteen sixty nine. There are a

528
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: couple of big court rulings that affirmed this enforcement. One

529
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: was Red Lion Broadcasting Company Incorporated the f c C.

530
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: It's a little mouthie So this one was sort of

531
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: two cases in one UM. The Supreme Court was able

532
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: to guild two birds. One case was an FCC appeal

533
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: of a lower court ruling UH that said this, you know,

534
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: the personal attack and political editorial rules as two big

535
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: rules were unconstitutional. Uh. And the second was a broadcaster

536
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: appealing of a lower court ruling that said the fccs

537
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: application of those rules was constitutional. So I said, all right,

538
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: you guys, let's just combine this into one thing and

539
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: we'll hear the case. Uh. And in the latter one,

540
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: there was an investigative journalist named Fred J. Cook, and

541
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: he filed a complaint. And like we said, it was

542
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: case by case stuff. So these this complaint made it

543
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: all the way to the Supreme Court. Fred Cook filed

544
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: a complaint against Redline Broadcasting, who owned uh W c

545
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: g B, because they had a broadcast with Reverend Billy

546
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: James Hargus that claimed that Cook, who was an author

547
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: and wrote a very uh kind of salacious expose about

548
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: the FBI. I uh. And this this reverend said, you

549
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: know what, this author is worked for the communist and

550
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: he attacked JEdgar Hoover. And we it turns out they

551
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: didn't contact Cook to give him that equal chance to respond,

552
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: and they denied him his demand for that, and it

553
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: made it all the way to the Supreme Court, and

554
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court said, you know what, Red Lion, you're wrong.

555
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: You gotta do this right. So and I since the

556
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruled that that Cook could have equal airtime,

557
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: this is like I think twelve years or nine years later,

558
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: and I could not find anywhere if he actually took

559
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: him up on it or not. But the whole thing

560
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: was just like a It was an ad hominum attack,

561
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: an attack on him on Cook because Cook had written

562
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: a book against Barry Goldwater, who was a presidential candidate

563
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: at the time, and the people who ran Red Lion

564
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: didn't like it. Um, so they attacked Cook. But he

565
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: so they in this ruling though, and this is the

566
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: whole point, not not that Cook got his time, it

567
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: was airtime, but that the Supreme Court ruled that the

568
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: sec applying this fairness doctrine was um good and fine

569
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: and constitutional, which is a big deal. They ruled that

570
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: the SEC could constitutionally um exercise this fairness doctrine, which

571
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: is that was just enormous. Yeah, it was a very

572
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 1: very big deal. Uh. The other big kind of landmark

573
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: case was that same year, UM the Office of Communication

574
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: of the United Church of Christ at all the FEC

575
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: another scintillating title. Uh. There was a US appeals court

576
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: who overturned the FEC's decision not to consider a petition

577
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: to revoke the license of Lamar Broadcasting w LBT. So

578
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: these citizens got together civil rights groups and they were like,

579
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: you know what, this station is awful. They are first

580
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: of all, they're not covering, um, the civil rights movement,

581
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: and they're flat out racist and segregationist, and so we're

582
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: gonna petition this. And the FEC denied the petition UH

583
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty four and said citizens don't have the

584
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: standing to file a petition like this, which is pretty

585
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: surprising because you know, the citizens are the ones that

586
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: FEC have always been like fighting for right. It was

587
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: a little um hanky hanky, it's the word that we

588
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: used to use. So the petitioners appealed in nineteen sixty six, Uh, yeah,

589
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: sixty six, the Court of Appeals for d C said,

590
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: you do have standing to petition the FCC to revoke

591
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: a license, because that's all about protecting the public interests,

592
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: which is what the FEC was supposed to be doing

593
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: in the first place, so get back to work. And finally,

594
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, the FEC revisited that petition rejected

595
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: it again because they said, hey, this station is actually

596
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: kind of taken some steps since then, and we think

597
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: they're doing the right thing. Petitioners still weren't happy. They

598
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: appealed that in in nineteen sixty nine. Uh, the f

599
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: SEC actually revoked our broadcastings license. They did. As far

600
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: as as far as I could tell, Lamar Broadcasting was

601
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 1: the one and only company to lose their license under

602
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: the fairness doctrine. Right, um, they never got it back

603
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: and chuck a little cherry on top. Because Lamar Broadcasting

604
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: lost the license of w LBT in Jackson, Mississippi. It

605
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: was up for grabs and it was taken by a

606
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: majority black owned group that that took over the station.

607
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: At that point that nice. So um, things seem to

608
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: be going smoothly for the fairness doctrine. What could go wrong? Well,

609
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: we'll tell you what could go wrong after a break?

610
00:36:39,560 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: How about that? Okay, chuck. So one thing that I've

611
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: learned is it's not necessarily like the Supreme Court is um,

612
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: their decisions are are final forever. They kind of shift

613
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: and move over time over long enough periods of time.

614
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: And the fairness doctrine is a really good example of that,

615
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: because in the sixties the Supreme Court ruled pretty clearly

616
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: the FEC was constitutional. But UM by the end of

617
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: the seventies the Supreme Court started to side with broadcasters instead.

618
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: The winds of change kind of blew through there. And

619
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: there was one case in particular that the Supreme Court

620
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: heard in ninety nine that UM signaled a a real

621
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: change for UM the fairness doctrine in the sec applying it.

622
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: And it was a case that involved w j I

623
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: MTV and Lansing, Michigan, which is owned by a guy

624
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: named Harold Gross. Yeah. So uh. The complaint here was

625
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: that he or the station rather via Harold Harold Gross,

626
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 1: had abused their broadcasting power to the detriment of the public.

627
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 1: So what he did was he denied airtime to political

628
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: rivals UM in some cases. In other cases, he censored

629
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: coverage of local businesses if they didn't advertise with them. Yeah,

630
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: he was. He was accused of clipping, which is taking

631
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: like when a when a network delivers a show, it

632
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: has commercial breaks in it. He would have his editors

633
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: go through and add even more commercial breaks, which you're

634
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: not supposed to do. Um, that was a big one.

635
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: Didn't cover the Jimmy Hoffa disappearance because he didn't like

636
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hoffa's politics, even though it was a national and

637
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: a local story. Yeah. So in ninety five hearing by

638
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: the FCC said, you know you've you violated the fairness rule.

639
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 1: We're taking your license, buddy. But he appealed it and

640
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: this time he won the appeal, And like you said,

641
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: this was a big shift in the way things were

642
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: being thought about as far as the fairness doctrine went. Um. Hey,

643
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: one one more thing about Harold Gross before we move

644
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: on this guy. Um. He was such a businessman that

645
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: when he started his TV station in n w j

646
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: I M, he was actually one of the first hundred

647
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: and eight license holders to broadcast on TV. But he

648
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: wasn't sure that TV was going to stick around, that

649
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: it was going to take off as a technology, so

650
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: he built the w j I M facilities so that

651
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: it could be converted into a motel if TV didn't

652
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: go anywhere. So the original date w j I m

653
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: UM TV station had a pool out back what is

654
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: it now? Do you know what is what? The pool?

655
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. I looked up to see if there

656
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: was anything um recent about it, and I didn't find

657
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: any any new stuff. But I cleared I saw a

658
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: picture of the station, and there's definitely a pool out

659
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: back from back in the fifties. I guess. So I

660
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: wonder if you let anybody swimming it or not. Maybe

661
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: if you advertised, he would have let you. So this

662
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: was mid to late seventies, and then things really really

663
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: started changing in the nineteen eighties because, uh, that whole

664
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: thing about remember when he said putting a pin in

665
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: uh spectrum scarcity, that was no longer a problem. By

666
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: the mid nineteen eighties, there were more than ten thousand

667
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: radio stations, undred TV stations, about seventeen hundred newspapers, And

668
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: the whole sort of drumbeat was like, wait a minute,

669
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: there's not a problem here anymore with scarcity, we should

670
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: be able to do what we want. Because you told

671
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: newspapers from the very beginning that their free speech was

672
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: uh protected and they could do whatever they want. Why

673
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: are we any different? Yeah, that's that's a really big

674
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: point um that a lot of people pointed to over

675
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: the years, is why does this just apply to electronic media?

676
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: Like the print media literally has an editorial page where

677
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: they come out with positions on candidates and all this stuff.

678
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: Why doesn't it apply to them? And for years and

679
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: years and years, it was any smoke can basically go

680
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: get a newspaper. Printed radio is different because of that

681
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 1: spectrum scarcity. But yeah, as the satellite people came along,

682
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: and as cable came along, that just kind of went

683
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: out the door. So spectrum scarcity going away, and the

684
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: fact that the newspaper industry the print media was not

685
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: regulated anywhere near the same way really kind of removed

686
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: any remaining foundation for for the fairness doctrine to stand on. Yeah,

687
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: so in the fecuh kind of got their gears turning

688
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: and said, you know what, Um, we think this is Uh,

689
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: we want Congress to review this basically, UM, we're gonna

690
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: institute a public comment period even and uh, we think

691
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: we should abandon the personal attack rule and in this

692
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: case by case thing, right, and yeah, And they did

693
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: this for like two years, and while the FEC is

694
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: holding like these public hearings on it, Congress at the

695
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: same time was saying, well, we don't really want the

696
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 1: arness doctrine to go away, and not just the left.

697
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: There was a bipartisan supported bill that got passed in

698
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: Congress to codify the fairness doctrine, but it was um

699
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: vetoed by Reagan and so after that that was basically

700
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,959
Speaker 1: it for the fairness doctrine. Yeah, the FCC voted, uh

701
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: unanimously to just get rid of it. They did, and

702
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: so they didn't actually get rid of it, they just

703
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: stopped enforcing it, or some parts of it. They kept

704
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: enforcing I think the personal attack and political editorial provisions

705
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: up until like two thousand, for like another thirteen years.

706
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: But the idea that you had to promote um opposing

707
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: viewpoints on your your television station or your radio station

708
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: that went away starting in and a lot of people

709
00:42:52,880 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: say that really changed the American media landscape big time. Yeah.

710
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's depending on who you are.

711
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: I know, I'm trying to dance around this. Um. Depending

712
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: on who you are, you probably have a very strong

713
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: opinion about the Fairness Doctrine one way or the other,

714
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: or you may think it was a mixed thing. Um,

715
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: it was definitely a flawed policy. I think everyone agrees

716
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: that it wasn't perfect. Um, but the legacy is really complex. Um.

717
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: You know, getting rid of it basically opened the door

718
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: for what we have today, which is a degraded news standard, um,

719
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: minority viewpoints that aren't necessarily covered. Uh. And how polarized

720
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: we are because you know, people dug in and they said,

721
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna start my super conservative radio stations,

722
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: and then people said, I'm going to start my super

723
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: conservative liberal uh website and and radio shows, and liberals

724
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: is gonna listen to theirs, and conservatives are gonna listen

725
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: to theirs and never between she'll meet right right. And

726
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: so especially if you have like each side promoting a

727
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: viewpoint or an agenda um to the detriment of the

728
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: other side, there's there's like the middle ground is lost,

729
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: which I mean some people, I know, some people aren't

730
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: very hip on centrism these days anyway, But I mean

731
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: you can keep a pretty decent sized society together when

732
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: you when you kind of follow a centrist access upward

733
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: and onward, you know. And I think that to me,

734
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: the fairness doctrine showed that. I mean, like, I don't

735
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 1: think it's a big surprise where I fall on whether

736
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: the fairness doctrine was a good idea or not. But

737
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's um Like, I can see

738
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: saying all these people out here need good information and

739
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: it's probably not going to just get out there on

740
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: its own if if we the government don't step in

741
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: and say here's how we need to get good information out.

742
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: And I think the current DA landscape is just complete

743
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: proof positive of that that if you just don't, if

744
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 1: you just let it all go free for all, then

745
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: then you end up with what we have, that this

746
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: is what the market offers us, echo chambers, echo chambers,

747
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: polarization and a huge division in the country, um with

748
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,919
Speaker 1: without anybody saying, well wait, wait, wait, yes, over here,

749
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: you guys are right. Over here, you guys are right

750
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: and and things are really messed up. But also what

751
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: about this other stuff? We kind of all agree on

752
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: this part and what about this part. Yeah, we have

753
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: a lot of common ground here. No one's talking about that,

754
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: and that used to be the role that the media

755
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: played before. Yeah. I mean, one thing we can say

756
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: is without the fairness doctrine, um, we may not have

757
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: gotten any of these majority viewpoints in the nineteen forties

758
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: and fifties and sixties, people might not have been as

759
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: well informed except maybe be a newspaper about the civil

760
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: rights movement, women's rights movement, Um, how bad smoking is,

761
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: about nuclear power plants, like, all of these things that

762
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: were sort of in the shadows were now now had

763
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: a guaranteed platform. Um. But like we mentioned earlier, because

764
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: they didn't really uh, they had to give these opposing viewpoints.

765
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: He also could have possibly borne the anti vax movement

766
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: and the and the climate denial movement and stuff like that.

767
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: So it was flawed, to be sure. Sure, Yeah, there's

768
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: from what I understand, like any Democrat to the right

769
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: of Ralph Nader, which is almost everybody, says, yes, fairness doctrine,

770
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: what a terrible idea, terrible idea. It was officially repealed

771
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eleven, and if you'll think back,

772
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: that was under the Obama administration. So the Obama administration's

773
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: FCC was the one that officially took the fairness doctrine

774
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: off of the books, removed it. Yeah, but I mean

775
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: that was a purge that was just like there's a

776
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: bunch of rotten food in the fridge, and why has

777
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: no one thrown it out yet Yeah, but it was

778
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: also pretty symbolic, you know, it was it was a

779
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: symbolic act, whether they handed it or not. But but

780
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: the the idea that um that it was it was

781
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 1: removed by a democratic, um, lefty president's administration is it's

782
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's saying something I think. Yeah, here's

783
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: where we are today. Though there was a pole, a

784
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: gallop pole. And just last year, in two thousand eighteen,

785
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: that's found Americans don't trust the news. Uh, they guessed, Uh,

786
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: let me see, si of what they here is biased,

787
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: forty percent is inaccurate, and thirty is misinformation. That's uh,

788
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: those numbers seem low to me. That's not a great

789
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: place to be in as a country though, No, it's

790
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: a terrible place. It's a scary place. Like how is

791
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: this country still together? You know? Um? But and and

792
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 1: the other thing is we're gonna get so much gough

793
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: because we didn't come out and just stay completely down

794
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: the middle. But I mean, I want to say, like

795
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: I understand where where people on the right are coming

796
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 1: from with this, Like ideologically this is censorship and um,

797
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: the the prohibition of the exercise of free speech, and

798
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: that's that is one of that is a a core

799
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: um founding value of conservativism and libertarianism. So like, I

800
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: can understand how you look at the fairness doctrine and

801
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: be like, this is government overreach and its worst and

802
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: its worst examples. You know. Yeah, but it's like it

803
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't like state run radio, you know. No,

804
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't like the government, the federal government propagandizing their agenda. Uh.

805
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was saying like, hey, you can say

806
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: this viewpoint, you also have to show the other viewpoint

807
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: to me, that's almost impossible to argue with. Yeah, and

808
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: I think don't newspapers of of high standing still on

809
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: their editorial page kind of print the two opposing opinions

810
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 1: side by side. Yeah, that's what op ed stands for,

811
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: is opposite the editorial page. So the editorial page will

812
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: be the used papers opinion their editorial board, and then

813
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: on the literal opposite page is the basically the opposing

814
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: opinion of that. Yeah, it's just a high journalistic standard.

815
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: But this is the government saying this. Newspapers do this

816
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 1: on their own, I guess, just out of tradition. Um.

817
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: Whereas electronic media is a little more wild Westy than that.

818
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: That's right. So um here we are today. Uh, pretty

819
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: interesting times we live in and it's all because the

820
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: fairness doctrine went away. Anyway, thanks for listening to this

821
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: episode of stuff you should know. If you want to

822
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: know more about the fairness doctrine, just go outside see

823
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: how you like things. Uh. And since I said that,

824
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail, I'm gonna call this the

825
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: sound of our voices. I'm sorry, let me say this

826
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: the color of our voices. Oh yeah, I know what

827
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: my voice is. Color. This is good. In fact, yours

828
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: isn't even color. This is more of a field thing.

829
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: So hey, guys, listened to the episode on perfect pitch.

830
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: You mentioned that sinistats are often good candidates for having

831
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: perfect pitch. I fall into the category of being someone

832
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: who possesses both. I've been serious about my musicianships since

833
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: my earliest recollections in life, and that's when I began

834
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: involuntarily hearing all the individual musical notes and their own unique,

835
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: unchanging colors. For example, the sound of the note F

836
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: I should have brought in dude, I bought one of

837
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: those little uh what do you call it? Pitch pipe

838
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: I got I bought a pitch pipe. Why didn't you

839
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: bring it in? No? I should have brought it in

840
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: the one. No harmonica, I should have brought too. I'm

841
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: gonna buy you one. I would love it. Can you

842
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: have an engraved to just sure? Okay? Um? So the

843
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: sound of f for Alison has never not caused a

844
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: rush of the color orange to sweep over her from

845
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: head to foot. I also hear people's individual voices and colors.

846
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: What's unique about voices to me? They're incredibly textured in

847
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: and of themselves. You guys have voice colors and textures.

848
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: I love mine, read mine. Josh's voice anytime I hear

849
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: it sounds like Swede. If Swede Swede could make a

850
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: sound painted medium to dark brown with a tiny hint

851
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: of easter egg purple. That is a lovely combo, if

852
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: you ask me. Chuck's voice, on the other hand, has

853
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: zero fuzz to it at all. Chuck's voice is very,

854
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: very metallic, almost shimmery, like you're gazing upon a deep

855
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: blue green body of water and you can see straight

856
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: to the bottom. Nice. That's a nice voice right there.

857
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: These are both great voices. I'm very happy that, I

858
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: mean who knows what what could have come out of

859
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: this email? You know, your smells like a puke and

860
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: yours sounds like nails on a chalkboard. The end. Um,

861
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: I've come to find out that no two voice colors

862
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: are exactly the same, kind of like thumb prints and snowflakes.

863
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: A person's voice color does not morph and to something

864
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: else either if they suddenly start speaking in another language.

865
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: And it also has nothing to do with his or

866
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: her particular uh personality type. So they're not saying you're

867
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: smooth like swede on like as a person. Oh yes, clearly,

868
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: I think as a person. The point of the matter,

869
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: I delight in hearing both of your voices nearly every

870
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: days a tune into the show. It's become a staple

871
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: in my daily existence. Keep on being wonderful. That is

872
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 1: from Allison, who is at our Salt Lake City show.

873
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: She interacted with us from the crowd. That's great. Thank

874
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: you for interacting with us, Alison. We appreciate that it's

875
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: illegal at our shows. But I think I asked a question.

876
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: She answered it it's against the rules. That's what they say. Um, well,

877
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: thanks Alison. That was one of the more interesting emails

878
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: we've ever received. Frankly, uh, if you want to be

879
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 1: like Allison and go to one of our live shows,

880
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: you will never regret it for a single moment in

881
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: your entire life. Go to s Y s K Live

882
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: dot com and get tickets, especially Chicago. And if you

883
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us like Allison did too,

884
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: you can go onto our website Stuff you Should Know

885
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: dot com, follow our social links there, or you can

886
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: send us an email send it off to stuff podcast

887
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: at i heart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know

888
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: is a production of i Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works.

889
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart

890
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

891
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: favorite shows. H