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Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Friday the thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: which is ominous of itself. That was the last normal

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Speaker 1: day in the office. As Americans, as we begin the

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Speaker 1: process of safely sinking back into our regular lives, there

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Speaker 1: are a ton of things to consider about our social interactions.

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Speaker 1: Should I wear my mask into this grocery store? Can

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Speaker 1: I grab a coffee with my friend? Is this restaurant

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Speaker 1: too crowded for me to sit inside? And in a

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Speaker 1: massively crowded city inside of a large state, there are

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Speaker 1: countless details like these to consider when it comes to

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Speaker 1: keeping entire populations safe. Jason Dgiati works for the State

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Speaker 1: of New York and has been mulling over those details

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Speaker 1: since day one of the pandemic. As we were dealing

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Speaker 1: with these emergencies and even closing down the economy putting

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Speaker 1: these restrictions in place, the immediate thought was, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to reopen. We're gonna have to turn this whole

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Speaker 1: thing back on. New Yorkers are no strangers to catastrophic challenges.

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Speaker 1: They emerged from nine to eleven from the blackouts in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three and made impressive recoveries after both

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Speaker 1: Hurricanes Irene and Sandy. Those were events. Those are things

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Speaker 1: that happened, and then they stopped, and we looked around, said,

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Speaker 1: what do we need to do to fix right? How

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Speaker 1: are we going to clean this up? COVID started and

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Speaker 1: just kept going, and we're still going even as COVID continues.

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Speaker 1: Jason d Gianni's team is actively trying out ideas to

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Speaker 1: encourage New York residents to re engage with social activities safely.

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Speaker 1: The Excelsior Pass is a digital tool that makes negative

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Speaker 1: COVID tests and positive vaccination statuses quick to confirm. Dgianni

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Speaker 1: thinks it offers some vital grease to the wheels of

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Speaker 1: the state's economy. This is Jason Dgianni. I'm a project

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Speaker 1: lead on New York's Excelsior Pass program, and reopening New

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Speaker 1: York safely and secure is solvable. Are you originally from

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Speaker 1: New York been there your whole life or my whole

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Speaker 1: life originally from downstate from Long Island, So came upstate

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Speaker 1: for college and just ended up not leaving. When would

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Speaker 1: you say was your last normal day on the job?

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Speaker 1: March thirteenth? Oh wow, that was a front top of mind. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Friday the thirteenth, which is you know, ominous of itself.

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Speaker 1: That was the last normal day in the office. Tell

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Speaker 1: me a little bit about your job, be pre covid, Like,

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Speaker 1: give me a typical day, pre COVID. I mean, I'll

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Speaker 1: focus on the procurement end, is making sure we're spending

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Speaker 1: the state's money wisely and have a good process. At

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Speaker 1: the division of the budget, We're dealing primarily a lot

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Speaker 1: with professional services and things of that nature. And then

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Speaker 1: literally the turn from February into March, testing and building

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Speaker 1: up the state's testing capacity became front and center, and

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Speaker 1: I saw that focus shift and the volume we were

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Speaker 1: looking for shift. That's when you knew things were going

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Speaker 1: to change. This being a large New York event, you know, COVID,

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Speaker 1: did you have any comparisons from this event to something

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Speaker 1: like nine to eleven being a really big, significant New

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Speaker 1: York event. It's hard making comparisons with stuff like this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'll just say, especially New York's had a

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Speaker 1: lot to go through. So yeah, nine to eleven Sandy

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Speaker 1: was huge. I was in state government at the time,

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Speaker 1: so I saw a lot of the state's response. My family,

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Speaker 1: my parents didn't have power for three weeks. I remember

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Speaker 1: just talking to my mom going on you know, local shops,

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Speaker 1: trying to charge your phone so you could talk to people.

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Speaker 1: But there's a key difference in those events that just

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Speaker 1: different from COVID that really just made this whole experience

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Speaker 1: so surreal. Those were events. Those are things that happened,

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Speaker 1: and then they stopped and we looked around, said what

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Speaker 1: do we need to do to fix right? How are

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Speaker 1: we going to clean this up? COVID started and just

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Speaker 1: kept going and it wasn't done and we're still going right. So,

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Speaker 1: thinking about your reaction to something like Hurricane Sandy, the

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Speaker 1: government probably knows exactly how quickly to react to a

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Speaker 1: natural disaster that has an end. How would you gauge

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Speaker 1: the government's reaction to something like COVID that does not

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Speaker 1: have an end? When would you say that you guys

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Speaker 1: really found your way righting the ship found your way,

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Speaker 1: saying Okay, we're figuring it out. We're in the storm now,

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Speaker 1: we're figuring it exactly how to respond? Yeah, I'll say

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Speaker 1: the one thing working in this administration in this environment

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Speaker 1: is the quick pivot to action is always there. And

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Speaker 1: I can say, I mean, there were people who were

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Speaker 1: in rooms for days on end without break a week

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Speaker 1: or so in you know, we realized that was going

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Speaker 1: to be a steady state for a while. The pivot,

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Speaker 1: or like the looking forward to getting out of this

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Speaker 1: happened early on in the sense that as we were

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Speaker 1: dealing with these emergencies and even closing down the economy

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Speaker 1: putting these restrictions in place, the immediate thought was we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to reopen, We're gonna have to turn this

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Speaker 1: whole thing back on, and that was always I would say,

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Speaker 1: in the back of our minds, what was that going

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Speaker 1: to look like and what was it going to take?

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Speaker 1: And you saw this, I think in a lot of

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Speaker 1: the discussions and press conferences about what were the numbers,

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Speaker 1: what was the signs showing us, how was this going

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Speaker 1: to grow? And when would we know we can start

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Speaker 1: doing certain things. But I would say, right away, we

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Speaker 1: were going down a path and we knew we have

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Speaker 1: to get back out, and that was always there. And

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Speaker 1: you go back to the governor's State of the State

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Speaker 1: address in January right already talking about what reopening was

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Speaker 1: going to be, and even Excelsior pass right and how

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Speaker 1: that was going to be a tool. Tell me a

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Speaker 1: little bit about Excelsior Pass. What is it, what does

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Speaker 1: it do? When we started, it was a lot of

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Speaker 1: the focus was on testing, COVID testing because vaccination rates

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Speaker 1: we're still ramping up. But essentially, Excelsior Pass lets you

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Speaker 1: take a negative test result or your vaccination status, turn

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Speaker 1: that into a very simple QR code pass that you

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Speaker 1: can then present to be scanned or just show people

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Speaker 1: that shows your status, so you can show I have

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Speaker 1: a negative test, I'm COVID free, or I've been vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: It's a tool that's giving people comfort to go out

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Speaker 1: and get used to getting back to what they love

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Speaker 1: doing before the pandemic. What has been the response from

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Speaker 1: New Yorkers as the Excelsior Pass has been The access

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Speaker 1: to it has been rolled out and I guess in

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Speaker 1: the app store or wherever else it's available. We've just

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Speaker 1: crossed over our two million mark for two million passes generated.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing parties being thrown where people are asking those

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Speaker 1: to come and bring an Excelsior Pass and show their status.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing bars use it, We're seeing restaurants, we're seeing

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Speaker 1: exercise Jim's use it. Look it's a voluntary program, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a tool we put out there. It's

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Speaker 1: free for every New Yorker, it's free for every business

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Speaker 1: in New York. It's something we wanted to get in

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Speaker 1: people's hands to help them get out and reopen and

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Speaker 1: and just seeing that uptake has been great. Why was

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Speaker 1: it important for y'all to make the past voluntary. It's

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Speaker 1: important for a number of reasons, I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: primarily is we didn't want to put something that was

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Speaker 1: going to get get in the way of people's participating.

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Speaker 1: There's access questions, there's availability questions, and you know, we

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Speaker 1: mitigate that in different ways. Where it's a it could

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Speaker 1: be a principal pass too, so it's it's something it's digital,

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Speaker 1: it's on a phone, but you could just print, print

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Speaker 1: it and have your QR code and carry that around. Well.

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Speaker 1: Was top of mind for us was not putting a

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Speaker 1: roadblock or a hurdle in the way of people being

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Speaker 1: able to go out there. You know, there's other states

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Speaker 1: in which they've written in legislation to prevent any sort

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Speaker 1: of access denial when it comes to using the vaccine,

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Speaker 1: having taken a vaccine or not taken a vaccine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So how would you respond to people that are critical

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Speaker 1: of this saying, well, now they're requiring us to show

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Speaker 1: that we've been vaccinated even though it is a voluntary system. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you know what I would say is we're

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Speaker 1: giving people a choice in a tool to help them

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Speaker 1: as they see fit and if they want to to

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Speaker 1: help them participate and use this. Do you think it's

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Speaker 1: the most ideal situation if everybody used it? When you

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Speaker 1: say everybody used it, you mean like every business or

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Speaker 1: just individuals? I mean yeah, I'm just saying like, if,

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Speaker 1: like in a perfect world, if every single person we're

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Speaker 1: using the Excelsior app, would that be the ideal scenario

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Speaker 1: for y'all? Or is this really just an option you

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Speaker 1: guys are presenting. Yeah, look, it's an option, right, So

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Speaker 1: we don't have requirements that say everyone, you know, things

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Speaker 1: are only open to those who are vaccinated, or things

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Speaker 1: are only opened to negative tests or these statuses. You know,

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Speaker 1: what I'd like to see is people use it as

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Speaker 1: much as they can. I think for individuals, I would say,

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Speaker 1: get your past just to have it. I think it's

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Speaker 1: just helpful to have instead of this just your CDC

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Speaker 1: card and not having to carry that right or to

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Speaker 1: use it when when you run into a business. From

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Speaker 1: a business standpoint, I would say, make that available and

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Speaker 1: when appropriate for the type of activities you are reopening,

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Speaker 1: and you think this will generate increased business or attract

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Speaker 1: more people, use it and show how this can be helpful,

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Speaker 1: How how creating. You know these vaccination sections like in

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Speaker 1: sports arenas, How that's that's a helpful thing. So I

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Speaker 1: would say support that. Anything that's going to support public health,

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Speaker 1: anything that's going to support our economic health is good

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Speaker 1: for New York period. With only nine million people fully

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Speaker 1: vaccinated in New York State, that's basically only a fraction

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Speaker 1: of the population. So how effective can the pass be

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Speaker 1: with numbers like those? Well, I think it can be

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Speaker 1: as effective, you know, as as the people using it

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Speaker 1: and want to make use of it. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: is out there right now. So look, it's effective in

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Speaker 1: a sense of it is a replacement. You can digitize

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Speaker 1: your credential and you can use it and present it

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Speaker 1: and any business can just download the scanner and use

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Speaker 1: it and scan it. So it's as effective as the

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Speaker 1: original credential itsself. Right, So I mean that's something you know,

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Speaker 1: we talk about too. Is the CDC card or your

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Speaker 1: test results, those are the baseline credential. That's what you need. Well,

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Speaker 1: when we were reopening and you know you want to

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Speaker 1: get into like let's say, a fully vaccinated section at

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Speaker 1: Yankee Stadium or something, you need to show your vaccine card, right,

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Speaker 1: So this is an effective replacement for that or substitution

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Speaker 1: for that. So we know that you had to work

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Speaker 1: a lot with federal medical databases and the New York

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Speaker 1: State databases as well. Was working with them a challenge

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Speaker 1: or how was that relationship? That was not an impediment

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Speaker 1: for us, It was a feature. So New York State,

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Speaker 1: we have a database for all of our test records.

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Speaker 1: So every COVID test that's administered in New York State

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Speaker 1: and every vaccination that is given is in our New

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Speaker 1: York State database. And that is the engine that really

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Speaker 1: drives the Excelsior pass. When you scan an Excelsior Pass,

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Speaker 1: you're not only seeing that Okay, somebody's showing me they're

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Speaker 1: vaccinated or they got a negative result, which you also

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Speaker 1: get as a result that says New York State has

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Speaker 1: validated this pass against their data. It's you know, we

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Speaker 1: talk a lot about the comfort of the New Yorkers

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Speaker 1: getting the pass, but from a business standpoint, to have

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Speaker 1: that piece of mind when you conduct that scan, I

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Speaker 1: think that's a huge piece too. And do you guys

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Speaker 1: have options for folks who are visiting New York. So

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Speaker 1: that's something we're working on. You alluded to this early, right.

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Speaker 1: Different states have different approaches thoughts on vaccine passes and

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Speaker 1: these records. We're working certainly with our neighboring states and

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Speaker 1: trying to have some kind of data sharing or ability

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Speaker 1: to issue this pass. Especially down in the New York

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Speaker 1: City area. There's a lot of folks from like Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey and neighboring states. We want to make it

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Speaker 1: as easy for them to come into New York as possible.

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Speaker 1: To anyone listening who is coming to visit New York,

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Speaker 1: any record you have is still valid and can still

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Speaker 1: be you, So anyone who's asking for vaccinated folks, you

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Speaker 1: can still show your CDC card. Do you have any

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Speaker 1: experiences with yourself going out and because I imagine you

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Speaker 1: have to be an evangelist for the past in some ways,

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Speaker 1: but have you been using it yourself? Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean certainly I've gotten it right away, I can say,

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Speaker 1: I mean early on. I mean just one of the

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Speaker 1: two biggest experiences was we went to a Rangers game

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Speaker 1: and we went to the Barclays Center for a Nets game.

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Speaker 1: So going to that and seeing that the first fans,

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Speaker 1: the first couple of days people being able to go

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Speaker 1: in and see their teams live again was just, you know,

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Speaker 1: great to see. I mean, for me personally, it's cool

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Speaker 1: to just to see something you've worked on and pull

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Speaker 1: it out on a phone and just have somebody at

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Speaker 1: MSG scan it. I mean, that's a pretty cool feeling, right.

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Speaker 1: We don't always get to build something and then go

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Speaker 1: play with it and watch it work. Have you had

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to be like, you know, I helped make that.

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Speaker 1: That's right, this is past number seven, right, like, but well,

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Speaker 1: you know the funny thing is, I mean, for me,

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Speaker 1: I had to wait till I was eligible for vaccine.

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Speaker 1: So actually there was a period of time where Excelsior

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Speaker 1: pass was out there and I couldn't get a pass

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Speaker 1: from my vaccine pass. I did get a bunch of

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Speaker 1: test passes, so so that was something I was able

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Speaker 1: to try out. Do you think the creation of the

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Speaker 1: app has encouraged more people to go get vaccinated. I hope.

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Speaker 1: So aside from the public health, from the personal health

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Speaker 1: reasons to get vaccinated, you're seeing now what you can

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Speaker 1: do with that vaccination status. Just look at sports right

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Speaker 1: you can have back to normal full capacity sections for

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Speaker 1: people who are vaccinated. I mean, my brother's huge Islanders fans,

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Speaker 1: they're very excited. Right now you can go to Anasta

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Speaker 1: coscy and you can go and watch and be with

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Speaker 1: the crowd like you were before COVID. That is such

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Speaker 1: a huge is just so uplifting for me personally, just

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Speaker 1: going from this journey and if we go back to

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Speaker 1: Friday thirteenth, going from where we were to trying to

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Speaker 1: buy medical supplies that were impossible to get to now

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Speaker 1: helping people go to a sports game with all their friends.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what a turnaround. I know I talked a

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Speaker 1: bit about like the business community, a huge benefit of

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Speaker 1: this program is the ease and the efficiency of scanning

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Speaker 1: people into your establishment. I mean, we've all scanned QR

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Speaker 1: codes and stuff. We know how quick this stuff is.

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Speaker 1: Compare that to you have a line of fifty people

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Speaker 1: at MSG or a club or a show or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to go look through a card and

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Speaker 1: check the dates. Is have fifteen days passed or you're

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Speaker 1: checking a test, is it within three days? It takes

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Speaker 1: you know, a minute. I actually, I mean I saw

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Speaker 1: this when we were doing our pilots oft like Madison

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Speaker 1: Square Garden. You see someone in the dark with a

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Speaker 1: flashlight looking at this piece of paper trying to calculate

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Speaker 1: is this a valid test result or is this the

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Speaker 1: you know, that takes time. So this is this is

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Speaker 1: a lot much more efficient and much easier. So in

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Speaker 1: most cases, like if they have the vaccine pass, the

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Speaker 1: only way that they can get it is by having

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Speaker 1: either a clear COVID test of clear vaccination status or

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Speaker 1: clear PCR status. If I'm not mistaken, so do you

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Speaker 1: guys run into incidences where people do not scan clear

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Speaker 1: based on there but even though they have a QR

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Speaker 1: code that says that they are one of the things.

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Speaker 1: And this was primarily with the test results, those would

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Speaker 1: expire after a certain amount of time, right you you

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Speaker 1: had to be within a three day range, so you

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Speaker 1: would get a negative result, you know, the skin would

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Speaker 1: not work, or you'd get the X because it's expired,

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Speaker 1: or would say he's expired, or if somebody was trying

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Speaker 1: to create one, you know, and it was not a

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Speaker 1: recognizable QR code. Let's say somebody's trying to recreate this

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Speaker 1: in some way or or spoof this, so those those

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Speaker 1: would show up negative. What advice would you give to

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Speaker 1: other cities and states exploring this avenue. I would say

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Speaker 1: focus on, you know, the objective, which is trying to

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Speaker 1: get people to come out. Keep it easy, keep it secure,

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Speaker 1: keep it simple. Jason Dgianni is the Director of Procurement

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Speaker 1: for the State of New York and help launch the

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Speaker 1: Excelsior Pass. The digital tool makes proof of negative COVID

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Speaker 1: tests and positive vaccine status is easy to confirm through

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Speaker 1: a quick scan. It's free for businesses and individuals across

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Speaker 1: the state. Solvable Senior producer is Jocelyn Frank, Research by

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Speaker 1: David Jah, Booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing producer is

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Speaker 1: Sasha Matthias, and our executive producer is Mio LaBelle. Solvable

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Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you like the show,

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Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review. It helps us

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Speaker 1: find our way to the ears of new listeners. You

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Speaker 1: could find Pushkin podcasts wherever you listen, including on the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and Apple podcasts. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening. I'll pull up appen