Speaker 1: On the Bechdel cast.
Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they
Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zephim fast, start changing it
Speaker 2: with the Bechdel cast.
Speaker 1: Railro and welcome to the rectal cast, not the rectal cast. Yes, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: the rectal cast.
Speaker 3: That's disgusting.
Speaker 1: Rye ram is rait Lynn.
Speaker 3: You said the rectal cast.
Speaker 1: Yes, I am familiar and I'm aware.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, we're welcome to the rectel cast. My ram
Speaker 4: is ramy raptus. And I resent how Scooby would introduce
Speaker 4: us the rectal cast, the rectal.
Speaker 3: Cast, which you know, so be it so be it.
Speaker 1: Scoobysh celet Scooby it Scooby it? Which celebrity thought that
Speaker 1: the Bechdel test was called the rectal test?
Speaker 3: Did that happen?
Speaker 1: It was someone? Yes, whoa let me look it up.
Speaker 3: You know who's been on Scooby who Joey Chestman?
Speaker 4: Wait what that doesn't pass the rectal test, but actually,
Speaker 4: anything involving Joey does pass the rectal test due to
Speaker 4: how many hot dogs he eats, but it does not
Speaker 4: pass the Bechdel Test due to the fact that he's
Speaker 4: a man. Anyways, Yeah, he was in uh, he was
Speaker 4: in an episode of Scooby Doo. It was a thrilling
Speaker 4: day for me as a Scooby fan and most importantly
Speaker 4: as Joey's wife.
Speaker 1: Of course, it was Diane Lane who accidentally called the
Speaker 1: Bechtel test the rectal test.
Speaker 4: I've got to be honest, I do feel like she's
Speaker 4: well within her rights, and I hope that no one
Speaker 4: corrected her. That's pretty iconic. Okay, So the Joey episode
Speaker 4: actually came out in the last.
Speaker 3: Couple of years.
Speaker 4: It's a new Scooby venture called Scooby Doo and guess who?
Speaker 3: And guess who joe.
Speaker 4: Joey Tesmutt who passes the rectal test with flying covers
Speaker 4: colors every fourth of July.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. Well, speaking of hot dogs, there's that
Speaker 1: part in this movie where Shaggy is like, hey, that
Speaker 1: reminds me of the time that I tried to eat
Speaker 1: the guy in the hot dog costume.
Speaker 4: Started on this, I also was thinking, what was my
Speaker 4: all Right, we have to introduce the show because this
Speaker 4: is the main feed episode.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Vexel Cast. What was the rectal rest retrod.
Speaker 4: Where are we saying rectal unprecedented levels this week?
Speaker 1: It's true. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is
Speaker 1: Caitlin Derunte, and this is our show where we examine
Speaker 1: movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the rectal rest.
Speaker 4: Which is the rio retrick prevented by Ralis and Rechdel,
Speaker 4: sometimes called the real.
Speaker 3: If this is your first.
Speaker 4: Episode, you should probably pick a different episode to listen
Speaker 4: to the first time.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of different versions of the rectal test,
Speaker 4: but we use our our very own special version.
Speaker 3: But Kaitlyn, what, what the fuck is it?
Speaker 1: Well? Our version is that two characters of a marginalized
Speaker 1: gender must have names. They must speak to each other Scooby,
Speaker 1: doesn't you know, Shaggy their boys. But if Velma and
Speaker 1: Daphne talk to each other about something other than a man,
Speaker 1: they can't be talking about something other than Scooby. Then
Speaker 1: it passes.
Speaker 3: I think we should we should make our test more.
Speaker 3: I can feel a chaotic episode coming on, I really can.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we should make a special exception for today,
Speaker 4: or just maybe a general addition to our version of
Speaker 4: the rectal rest, where nowhere it does pass if you're
Speaker 4: talking about Scooby.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, so like an Alfred Molina kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly Did I ever tell you about my like?
Speaker 3: I like, there's a lot of.
Speaker 4: Like stale Jamie bits that are going to be connected
Speaker 4: to this episode. First of all, Matthew Lillard. I was
Speaker 4: trying to remember what the fuck I was saying about Matthew.
Speaker 4: I think I was pretending to be his assistant. Was
Speaker 4: that it?
Speaker 3: Or I would be like Willard, No, he was my assistant.
Speaker 4: Matthew Lillard was my assistant in my in my little
Speaker 4: fantasy life. And I was making him bring me I
Speaker 4: think tuna on crackers. It could have been, oh, or
Speaker 4: maybe soup. I kind of remember this was this, Oh,
Speaker 4: I think Lillard was bringing me soup and he was
Speaker 4: dropping this soup and I was yelling at him.
Speaker 1: Was this on the Scream episode? Maybe I forget why
Speaker 1: wee would have I.
Speaker 3: Believe that that would have been. It could have also been,
Speaker 3: and I think it maybe made a comeback.
Speaker 4: In the what's that one on a Rider movie where
Speaker 4: they're just complain and complain and complain, And he's in
Speaker 4: that one too.
Speaker 3: We covered it last year.
Speaker 1: I swear to god reality bites. Yes, no he's not
Speaker 1: in that is he?
Speaker 3: Wait?
Speaker 4: No a m I no, no, because no, I'm thinking
Speaker 4: of Steve's on But.
Speaker 1: He is in Hackers. I think he is in Hackers.
Speaker 4: How long has it been since we've covered a Lillard
Speaker 4: original and we haven't done SLC Punk and we should
Speaker 4: at some point we should. I've only seen that movie
Speaker 4: once and it was the only time I've done Molly,
Speaker 4: and I was like, why would you do Molly and
Speaker 4: then watch SLC Punk alone? Not alone, to be clear,
Speaker 4: not alone with a friend.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, congrats.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4: There was the bit about matth Miller being my assistant,
Speaker 4: and you're right making me soup. I think I'm going
Speaker 4: to bail on it. I think I'm going to bayl
Speaker 4: on it for two. But I do have another Scooby,
Speaker 4: but I'd like to share.
Speaker 3: This is a longer term one.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: I used to have this dream, not like a but
Speaker 4: like a wish, a cherished wish it kind of dream
Speaker 4: in which, at every pivotal point in my life, I
Speaker 4: thought it would be really funny if there was someone
Speaker 4: wearing a Scooby costume, just also in the room in
Speaker 4: a way that would feel so bizarre that I would
Speaker 4: want people to feel like they were dreaming if they attended.
Speaker 4: So I'm talking about like a wedding that is a
Speaker 4: very standard wedding, but someone in the audience or the
Speaker 4: not the audience, god depressing.
Speaker 3: The pews or whatever the states, is wearing.
Speaker 4: A Scooby costume and like no attention is brought to it.
Speaker 4: I'm talking I'm giving birth delivery room.
Speaker 1: Ohoa, Scooby, this Skuby be there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, all the way through my funeral, when I've you know,
Speaker 4: shuffled off this mortal coil.
Speaker 3: I think it would be fun for there to be
Speaker 3: just someone in a Scooby suit. Now each important turn
Speaker 3: in my life?
Speaker 1: Is this a like a lifelong dream you've had or this.
Speaker 4: Has been something I've been talking about since high school?
Speaker 1: Oh? Whoa, Yeah, okay I have if I were.
Speaker 4: I'm not at my apartment at the moment, but if
Speaker 4: i were, I could show you. An illustration that I've
Speaker 4: done of me is a self portrait.
Speaker 3: There's two Jamie's.
Speaker 4: It's much like the Free to call it Self portrait
Speaker 4: where she's sitting across from another Freedom.
Speaker 3: It's that but it's me and.
Speaker 4: Between us is a Scooby interesting So it has been
Speaker 4: a cherished wish for a long time. And I'll say
Speaker 4: it's not too late because the very arbitrary life quote
Speaker 4: unquote accomplishments I was listing, none of them have happened.
Speaker 4: And so not too late for Scooby at the wedding,
Speaker 4: not too late for Scooby in the delivery room, not
Speaker 4: too late for.
Speaker 3: Or Scooby at the funeral. Yeah, Scooby at the funeral. Wait,
Speaker 3: what is that? Is a sun Dance movie waiting to happen?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, so you should write it.
Speaker 4: I guess all right, I'm not going to talk for
Speaker 4: the rest of the episode.
Speaker 3: Is that okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll take overs. We should talk.
Speaker 4: About the Matreon because this this episode is happening in
Speaker 4: this way, Yes, due to the fact that our listener
Speaker 4: base has really gone off the rails.
Speaker 1: It's true, run off the rails, like it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So we are covering Scooby Doo two thousand and two
Speaker 1: because we had put a request out to our matrons
Speaker 1: on the Matreon asking what horror movies that we have
Speaker 1: not yet covered that they would like us to cover
Speaker 1: for the month of October, and not.
Speaker 4: To be fair, should we have put Scooby Doo two
Speaker 4: thousand and two under horror movies we haven't covered?
Speaker 1: Some might say, now, well, well here's what happened. So
Speaker 1: eventually it became a poll that the matrons voted on,
Speaker 1: but before that we were just submitting any request.
Speaker 3: And you sickos.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was my fault with the wording of the
Speaker 1: original post because I just said spooky movie rather than
Speaker 1: like a horror movie.
Speaker 4: I would say that, yeah, that does pretty closely, and
Speaker 4: you got the double oh, sounds like it's Scooby Doo.
Speaker 1: More like spooky Doo.
Speaker 4: It's giving Scooby, it's giving Scooby.
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, I'm listening.
Speaker 1: Okay. So I remember the requests flooded in and there
Speaker 1: were six that ended up on the pole, the most
Speaker 1: frequently requested movies, and one of them was Scooby Doo
Speaker 1: two thousand and two. So we put it on the pole.
Speaker 1: I thought it would be like maybe somewhere in the middle,
Speaker 1: towards closer to the last place. Unbelievable response by a landslide.
Speaker 4: I think did a lap around the closest competitor, Like, yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't know what are you all every listener on
Speaker 4: this show the exact same age, like what, I don't
Speaker 4: understand what the but I do think that I mean,
Speaker 4: well whatever, twenty year cycles, right, people have Scooby Doobe
Speaker 4: Doo two thousand and two on the brain and they're
Speaker 4: also I will shout out one of my favorite YouTubers
Speaker 4: of all.
Speaker 3: Time, Mike's Mike did a barn burner of a video
Speaker 3: about Scooby Dobe Doo two thousand and two just last year.
Speaker 4: Another YouTuber who I really like, named bread Sword, did
Speaker 4: a very popular Scooby Doo video in the last couple
Speaker 4: of years where he watched forty four Scooby Doo movies
Speaker 4: Scooby Scooby's.
Speaker 3: Got his paw on the pulse again, let's just say
Speaker 3: that he got.
Speaker 4: Joey, he got Joey or you Joey Chestnut and Joey Chess,
Speaker 4: not another person who's got his paw on the pulse while.
Speaker 1: We're talking about it. So apparently, I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is an animated Scooby Doo movie or just maybe
Speaker 1: the name of an episode of a Scooby series. I
Speaker 1: think it actually might be a movie, though, there's something
Speaker 1: called Scooby Doo in the Curse of the Thirteenth Ghost
Speaker 1: that came out in twenty nineteen with Matthew Lillard voicing Shaggy.
Speaker 1: Matthew Lillard is also in a movie called Thirteen Ghosts,
Speaker 1: so is this a crossover kind of thing?
Speaker 4: Well, and then also there's been Scooby Doo by Drama
Speaker 4: Oh in the last couple of years, because I think
Speaker 4: we talked about this on the podcast at the time,
Speaker 4: which is wild because I have no idea what the
Speaker 4: conversation would have can I to do?
Speaker 3: But one of I think the enduring of the many
Speaker 3: enduring elements of Scooby do two thousand and two, this
Speaker 3: like Matthew Lillard Shaggy specifically became Cannon Cannon. He still
Speaker 3: does Shaggy to this day.
Speaker 4: He's done Shaggy one, two, three in three different series
Speaker 4: this year alone. He is the canonical Shaggy. That has
Speaker 4: not been true for anyone else in this cast. Not
Speaker 4: to say that they weren't wonderful, but like usually voice
Speaker 4: casting is.
Speaker 3: Pretty fluid, but not so.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think Lillard really just nailed it so
Speaker 4: much that.
Speaker 1: He cornered that market.
Speaker 3: And God bless but if you recall, there was a
Speaker 3: bit of drama.
Speaker 1: Oh it's be a drama, Scoob. Yes, right, yes, the movie, Scoob.
Speaker 4: Thank you for remembering the drama surrounding Scoob. Yes, they
Speaker 4: replaced Matthew Lillard. People were furious they were losing it.
Speaker 4: Will Forte Shaggy. I love will Forte, but it was wrong.
Speaker 4: It was wrong, and Lillard I think in a way
Speaker 4: that I was like, all right, this is maybe a
Speaker 4: bit much. He publicly responded and he was like, I'm
Speaker 4: very disappointed to not have been cast in Scoop.
Speaker 3: It hurts, it feels bad.
Speaker 4: And the fans were outraged because Lillard's canon Shaggy.
Speaker 3: He loves being Shaggy. And I'm thrilled to report that.
Speaker 4: It really has appeared to have course corrected, because.
Speaker 3: You know that Scuba is twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: I remember watching it and early locked down and being like,
Speaker 4: this is the worst thing that's going to happen in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty. No, like, that's that's how you know that.
Speaker 4: You know the world is in utter disarray. Lillard's not
Speaker 4: even doing Shaggy.
Speaker 3: It's a mess.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, within the year it was the fans they got
Speaker 4: what they fucking wanted and he's.
Speaker 3: You know, he is our Shaggy again.
Speaker 1: Thank goodness.
Speaker 4: None of this passed the Bechtel test, but it is relevant,
Speaker 4: and that is how Scooby would say that word.
Speaker 3: He would say relevant.
Speaker 1: I think he actually would say relevant or zoinks?
Speaker 3: Can I just say zoinx?
Speaker 1: You can?
Speaker 3: Oh God, bless this movie. What a treat.
Speaker 4: So anyways, if you're listening to this episode and you've
Speaker 4: voted for Scooby Doo on the Matreon, this.
Speaker 1: Is your faults.
Speaker 4: I hope you're happy, because I'm actually quite happy that
Speaker 4: we are covering this movie. Same But if you're not
Speaker 4: a member of the Matreon, here's a plug for it,
Speaker 4: because I mean, we couldn't be more biased. But it's
Speaker 4: a treat. It's a treat for five bucks a month,
Speaker 4: you can get two bonus episodes. It's just me and Caitlin.
Speaker 4: It's a little more, you know. It's like a lighthearted,
Speaker 4: fun vibe. Over on the Matreon, we usually choose a
Speaker 4: theme every month. This month it's popular horror requests we
Speaker 4: haven't gotten too.
Speaker 1: And so the reason that we shifted Scooby Doo over
Speaker 1: to the main feed is because it won by such
Speaker 1: a landslide, and we're like, well, if this many matrons
Speaker 1: want it, surely this many people in general want it.
Speaker 1: So then on the Matreon this month we are covered
Speaker 1: bring I Guess like second and third place, which basically
Speaker 1: tied two votes apart.
Speaker 4: It felt it felt right, it felt right to do it,
Speaker 4: so we're doing it. Follows in Barbarian, which both also
Speaker 4: take both take place in the Greater Detroit area and
Speaker 4: are kind of more independent movies, so it feels like
Speaker 4: a more appropriate match up over there. And if you
Speaker 4: would or if you're interested in those episodes or hell,
Speaker 4: the like one hundred and fifty episodes of backlog we
Speaker 4: have over in the Matreon, it is a mere five
Speaker 4: dollars a month. It's a very fun community and as
Speaker 4: you can tell by the episode we're doing right now,
Speaker 4: they're absolute menaces over there.
Speaker 3: They're always making us do all sorts of I think,
Speaker 3: I truly, I'm trying to think of.
Speaker 4: Like for me, for me on the Matreon, I think
Speaker 4: it's it's the Pinocchio Wars for me. That's where we
Speaker 4: can really let our worst instincts fly free. We did
Speaker 4: do a theme earlier this year that was every adaptation
Speaker 4: of Pinocchio that came out in twenty twenty two, which
Speaker 4: was three of them, including the poly sharp Pinocchio. So
Speaker 4: if you really want some some deep cuts and some
Speaker 4: fun discussions, that is where you can find them.
Speaker 3: But today serious discourse.
Speaker 4: On the main feed Scooby Doo two thousand and two. Now, Caitlin,
Speaker 4: what is your history with this movie?
Speaker 3: And I would also say Scooby canon.
Speaker 1: Of course, I had never seen this movie before, no way, really,
Speaker 1: it's true, and I had never seen its sequel either,
Speaker 1: nor had I really seen any Scooby Do intellectual property.
Speaker 1: I fascinated where of the characters. You know, it has
Speaker 1: permeated pop culture, you know, the zeitgeist if you will.
Speaker 1: So I just knew through cultural osmosis who all the
Speaker 1: and maybe i'd like it was on in the background
Speaker 1: at some point, but I never like actively sat down
Speaker 1: and watched any Scooby show or anything like that. But
Speaker 1: I you know, obviously you know Scooby and Scrappy and
Speaker 1: Shaggy and Fred and Velma and Daphne.
Speaker 4: They're very Yeah, they're like peak cultural osmosis stuff.
Speaker 1: Yes, so, but yeah, I had never seen this movie
Speaker 1: or I feel like sick much in the way of
Speaker 1: any other Scooby Doo property. But I was, you know,
Speaker 1: keeping my eye on the pole and saw that Scooby
Speaker 1: Doo was taking the lead by a lot. I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'll watch it. So I watched it a few weeks
Speaker 1: ago with our friend Bryant, and then I watched it
Speaker 1: two more times to prep for this episode.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, you've got to be ready. You've got
Speaker 4: to be ready because there's a lot going on in
Speaker 4: this movie. And I'm like, kind of serious.
Speaker 1: I knew. I told you. Remember, we were like, You're like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's anything to say, and I
Speaker 1: was like, there's some stuff to say, and we'll say it.
Speaker 1: And then I also watched Scooby Doo two two thousand
Speaker 1: and four Monsters Unleashed.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen that movie, I don't think since it
Speaker 4: came out out. So I'm thrilled to.
Speaker 1: Hear Jamie, what is your relationship with Scooby.
Speaker 3: Oh, you know, I love it. I love it. I
Speaker 3: love it. Maybe will not shock long time listeners of
Speaker 3: the show know that I love Scooby Doo.
Speaker 4: I think that like it was maybe in like arrogant
Speaker 4: child brain. It was maybe one of the first cartoons
Speaker 4: I got burnt out on as a kid, because I
Speaker 4: really loved Mainline. I mean, they would show reruns on
Speaker 4: Cartoon Network. I'd watch them with my cousins. But it
Speaker 4: was you know, very, very formulaic, which I think is
Speaker 4: commented on quite brilliantly at the beginning of Scooby Doo
Speaker 4: two thousand and two, where it's a ghostly mystery, but
Speaker 4: also like I mean, in the deeper into Scooby canon
Speaker 4: you got, there's a lot of kind of questions of like,
Speaker 4: in the Scooby Doo world, is magic real? Is the
Speaker 4: supernatural force in this movie? I think it is equally
Speaker 4: ambiguous and confusing and equally written off and dismissed.
Speaker 3: Which I guess is true to canon.
Speaker 4: But also it's like it's always like, oh, oh no,
Speaker 4: it's not you know, ghosts aren't real. It's just some
Speaker 4: some horny old guy. Yeah, it's you know, like in
Speaker 4: a very predictable way.
Speaker 3: And so it was like as a kid, I remember
Speaker 3: loving it.
Speaker 4: And then being like, oh my god, I think I
Speaker 4: know how every episode's going to end, and then abandoning
Speaker 4: the Scooby ship for a while.
Speaker 3: I'll be honest I saw this movie in theaters.
Speaker 4: I remember loving it, thinking it was a little raunchy,
Speaker 4: really being fixated on Sarah Michelle Geller's outfits, and being
Speaker 4: I think I've mentioned this on the show before, being
Speaker 4: I like there, I didn't like practical effects.
Speaker 3: Or CG animals when I was.
Speaker 4: A kid, and I think a particularly gnarly time to
Speaker 4: be a kid and be witnessing effects because I, with
Speaker 4: all due respect to you know, to the Scooby Hive,
Speaker 4: to the denizens of the Mystery Machine.
Speaker 3: Scooby looks busted in these movies. He freaks me out.
Speaker 4: He freaks me out, and yeah, Scooby Doo two thousand
Speaker 4: and two. Even as a kid, I was like, this
Speaker 4: is not this.
Speaker 3: Is not my Scooby. I don't you know, this is
Speaker 3: not hashtag not my Scooby.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 3: I was a little freaked by the Scooby But I
Speaker 3: loved this movie. I thought it was so funny. And
Speaker 3: I also am just like, as a.
Speaker 4: Grown person interested in Scooby discourse, Scooby Dooby discourse as
Speaker 4: we call it in the community. I'm not a part
Speaker 4: of the community. Let maybe I just but I am
Speaker 4: interested because I feel like there is a lot of
Speaker 4: because it's been you know, as a property that's been
Speaker 4: around for I believe, let me check, I did know
Speaker 4: off the top of my head. Yeah, over half a century.
Speaker 4: These damn kids have been ripping masks off of old
Speaker 4: guys heads. And I think that there is like a
Speaker 4: really interesting legacy around the way that Peo fans.
Speaker 3: Have perceived these characters. I think there's a huge queer.
Speaker 4: Reading of the Scooby Doo expanded universe that is very
Speaker 4: unique and very cool and also ties into this movie
Speaker 4: directly for the sake of like I don't know, there's
Speaker 4: if you're a listener, there's a lot.
Speaker 3: Of Scooby Doo content.
Speaker 4: We're mostly going to be sticking to the movie, but
Speaker 4: you know, in the context of who these characters have meant,
Speaker 4: I think, especially with like Daphne and Velma and a
Speaker 4: little bit of Fred, there's a lot to talk about.
Speaker 4: I think it's an interesting and wholesome kind of property.
Speaker 4: And I do remember there was something of a shit
Speaker 4: storm surrounding, like discourse around the Mindy Kaling Velma series
Speaker 4: that came out last year. I'm gonna say I'm not
Speaker 4: touching that. I'm not touching that I didn't watch it.
Speaker 3: I don't know. The only dull.
Speaker 1: Thing I will say that I think is relevant to
Speaker 1: our discussion is that the cast of Scooby Doo has
Speaker 1: for a very very long time been white, just a
Speaker 1: bunch of white people. And then Velma, the HBO Max
Speaker 1: or whatever, just Max whatever, it's HBO, what trying to
Speaker 1: make Max happen?
Speaker 4: Anyway, I know the world is going to be incinerated
Speaker 4: in ten years.
Speaker 1: Nothing matters. Yeah, but the animated series Velma starring and
Speaker 1: I think like executive produced by Mindy Kaling. Mindy Kaling
Speaker 1: plays Velma. There's also Constance Wu plays Daphne and Sam
Speaker 1: Richardson plays Shaggy, as well as Glenn Howardton playing Fred.
Speaker 1: So three of the four main cast are people of
Speaker 1: color in the series. So it, you know, course corrects
Speaker 1: this problem of you know, Scooby Doo being extremely white. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: audiences hated that series and the creative liberties it took right,
Speaker 1: which I from my recollection of it, was not connected
Speaker 1: to the Scooby Doo gang not being white.
Speaker 4: It was more connected to just like the writing and
Speaker 4: how the series ended up.
Speaker 3: I don't yeah, I again, I didn't watch it because
Speaker 3: it just seemed so nuclear. Maybe it was good. I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 4: I yeah, I remember like there being an initial wave
Speaker 4: of excitement of like, oh, this historically like white group
Speaker 4: of teenagers. Like they're like they're diversifying this cast in
Speaker 4: a way that makes total sense. But then I do
Speaker 4: remember there being conversation around handling the queerness of the
Speaker 4: group was considered to be fumbled all this other stuff
Speaker 4: We didn't but that's not what we're talking about today.
Speaker 4: But all I have to say the fact that there
Speaker 4: was a massive wave of Scooby Dooby discourse within the
Speaker 4: last calendar year. These characters people care, they don't care
Speaker 4: about what's going on with these damn kids. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: think that this was in conclusion, I think this was
Speaker 4: a movie that was was formative and also one where
Speaker 4: I just like the women are they're really they're really
Speaker 4: doing something, They're really doing something cool in this movie.
Speaker 4: I just remember being like, Wow, Linda Cardliniewater interesting, interesting,
Speaker 4: and I'm thinking about it, all right, let's talk about
Speaker 4: and also like for because I think we will be
Speaker 4: talking about this at length within the conversation after the recap.
Speaker 4: This is directed by Rajah Gosnell and screenplay and story
Speaker 4: by James Gunn, who has spoken about this movie extensively.
Speaker 4: He is later famous for doing Guardians at the Galaxy.
Speaker 3: He's currently in charge of that. Master Yeah has encountered
Speaker 3: his you know share of.
Speaker 4: You know, public humiliation in the way that I feel
Speaker 4: like anyone who gets remotely near superhero properties does. But
Speaker 4: in general it seems to be a pretty beloved writer
Speaker 4: and certainly loves talking about Scooby doo So we're gonna
Speaker 4: be getting into that Scooby Dooey discourse.
Speaker 1: But first, yes, first a break, and then we will
Speaker 1: come back for the recap, and we're back.
Speaker 4: Is there any is rot Row, It's Scooby Dooey Doo,
Speaker 4: It's zoinks and for me it'sinks. Okay, h zoinks? What
Speaker 4: happens in this movie? Case?
Speaker 1: Okay? Well, first of all, we are in Coolsville, USA.
Speaker 1: M ever heard of it?
Speaker 3: I just like it's so Scooby Doobe goofy. I just
Speaker 3: love how like brain Dead some of it is. I
Speaker 3: love Yeah, Colesville, Yes, perfect.
Speaker 1: We open on Mystery inc aka like the Scooby Game,
Speaker 1: solving a group of bisexual teenagers, Yes, and their large
Speaker 1: dog who can talk. They are solving a mystery at
Speaker 1: a toy factory. Of course, it's Shaggy played by Matthew Lillard.
Speaker 1: Fred is Freddy Prince Junior, Velma is Linda Cardellini, Daphne
Speaker 1: is Sarah Michelle Geller, and of course Scooby Doo and
Speaker 1: he's voiced by Neil Fanning.
Speaker 4: Yeah, who is not our normal Scooby. I think we
Speaker 4: would normally have Oh gosh, Frank, not your normal Scooby.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So they stop this guy, old man Smithers,
Speaker 1: who is pretending to be a ghost, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I would have gotten away with it too, if it
Speaker 1: weren't for you meddling kids.
Speaker 4: Cloud yet another phrase intrinsically connected to the Scooby universe.
Speaker 1: And then a bunch of people show up. What do
Speaker 1: you think, Pamela Anderson? God, And it's quote unquote her
Speaker 1: fault that old man Smithers did this whole thing to
Speaker 1: begin with because she wouldn't go out with him.
Speaker 3: Frank.
Speaker 4: So now, welker, Frank, oh, welker. And I only say
Speaker 4: that because we've talked about him on the show before.
Speaker 4: He's like a legendary voice actor. Yes, And I love
Speaker 4: voice actors. Okay, Frank Walker, but this is not Frank
Speaker 4: weldcler Let's go back to the discussion.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So Pamela Anderson is there because it's her
Speaker 1: toy factory question mark.
Speaker 3: Okay, not sure she's a girl boss to get the
Speaker 3: toy factory.
Speaker 1: It's great, yeah, yeah, And so everyone's like, wow, good job,
Speaker 1: mystery inc.
Speaker 4: This was a This was a big thing for movies
Speaker 4: of two thousand and two, because if we're talking about
Speaker 4: like goofy children's movies of two thousand and two, unavoidable
Speaker 4: or avoidable until I'm forcing the discussion, is a Master
Speaker 4: of Disguss starring Dana Carvey comes out in this same
Speaker 4: stretch of time, We've got Scooby Doo coming out in June.
Speaker 4: Master's Disguise on its heels August second, two thousand and two,
Speaker 4: and that movie also opens with a nostalgic to children,
Speaker 4: meaningless reveal of a famous woman.
Speaker 3: In Master of.
Speaker 4: Disguise, it's Bo Derek rips off a rubber mask with
Speaker 4: James Brolin, and she's Bo Derek, and that's you know,
Speaker 4: that's for parents. I guess this is I think that
Speaker 4: we're getting kind of a lot of and I have
Speaker 4: a quote for this.
Speaker 3: Later in the episode.
Speaker 4: But this movie, I think you can very clearly trace
Speaker 4: its lineage too, coming off the success of Shrek.
Speaker 3: Shrek changed everything.
Speaker 4: We know this to be true. I really do feel
Speaker 4: like it comes up on the show at least once
Speaker 4: a month. Shrek changed everything because now you have to
Speaker 4: have jokes for parents as well, and that becomes like
Speaker 4: very inherent to what popular children's media is.
Speaker 3: And I think that you can.
Speaker 4: Really really see that reflected in Scooby Doo, which comes
Speaker 4: out the following year, and James Gunn, Oh god, he
Speaker 4: used this very funny turn of phrase.
Speaker 3: Oh he said in the heat of Shrek. That's what
Speaker 3: he said. There, excuse me, in the heat of Shrek.
Speaker 3: It's like in the heat of the kind of movie.
Speaker 1: It's in the heat of Shrek.
Speaker 3: In the heat of Shrek. But there is I think
Speaker 3: that that's.
Speaker 4: Like there are there's a quality to these like children's
Speaker 4: movies of the early two thousands that are like a
Speaker 4: little raunchier than than they even are now.
Speaker 3: Due to the heat of Shrek.
Speaker 1: Wow, and and Trek makes me feel like I'm in heat,
Speaker 1: so you know.
Speaker 3: What, so awesome, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, sorry, sorry, sorry sorry.
Speaker 3: We're in the first scene of the movies.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay, So mystery Ink solves the mystery. Everyone's like, wow,
Speaker 1: good job, and Fred is like, yeah, I basically did everything,
Speaker 1: and so Velma is upset with Fred for taking credit
Speaker 1: for her plan, and she decides to quit.
Speaker 4: I really like the choice of dynamics between characters.
Speaker 3: I think there's room for more. We'll talk about it.
Speaker 3: But I kind of.
Speaker 4: Because I'd seen this movie a bunch of times, but
Speaker 4: easily not in at least like five years, and I
Speaker 4: kind of forgot that, like Fred and Velma have a
Speaker 4: bit of a power struggle, but it makes sense with
Speaker 4: their characters, and I liked it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, so Velma quits. Then Daphne, who does
Speaker 1: not like that she's the one who's always getting kidnapped
Speaker 1: and damseled, also quits okay, and then Fred quits because
Speaker 1: everyone else is quitting, So now it's just Shaggy and Scooby.
Speaker 1: We cut to two years later. Shaggy and Scooby are
Speaker 1: living on the beach. They're just chilling, you know, they're
Speaker 1: just vamping.
Speaker 3: Maybe they're vamping.
Speaker 1: Isn't that what you would used to what.
Speaker 3: No, there was a phrase that.
Speaker 1: You have said on the podcast, like probably honestly seven
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 3: They're very Actually, I couldn't have said that. What was it?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: What was I trying to express at that time? Like
Speaker 3: just chilling lamping? Lamping lamp.
Speaker 4: And even that now makes me sound ancient, crusty dead.
Speaker 3: That's so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was like what you would say if you
Speaker 4: were like hanging out with your friends in.
Speaker 3: Two thousand and nine.
Speaker 4: It's because and that's from a movie that we haven't covered,
Speaker 4: and I.
Speaker 3: Don't think we ever need to Napoleon Dynamite. That's where
Speaker 3: that comes from. Oh, I am.
Speaker 1: Not realize that was the source of it. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I love lamp lamping. Is that vamping is just like
Speaker 1: what you do when you're on stage and you need
Speaker 1: to kill ten.
Speaker 3: The nice comedian is still not arrived, right.
Speaker 4: Vaping is what they would have been doing if you
Speaker 4: could show that in the movie took place twenty years later.
Speaker 3: What they are doing is smoking weed in a van
Speaker 3: for two.
Speaker 4: Years, but that they're not allowed you know, you're not
Speaker 4: allowed to show it.
Speaker 3: But in the heat of Shrek, you can imply it.
Speaker 3: In the heat of shrug. You can imply it, you
Speaker 3: just can't show it.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so they're not vamping. They're lamping. Well, they
Speaker 1: are kind of just killing time until the rest of
Speaker 1: mystery something happens.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're really like the Yeah, they're eating, they're snacking.
Speaker 1: But they're not detectives any more until they're approached by
Speaker 1: someone who wants them to come to an amusement park
Speaker 1: called Spooky Island because there's a mystery at the park
Speaker 1: that needs solving.
Speaker 4: Another brainless title for a location, and you're like, mmm,
Speaker 4: the only way this could get better is if mister.
Speaker 3: Bean was on the island. Well, guess what.
Speaker 4: Baby, But first we go, we go to the airport
Speaker 4: and we see the gang reunite, which is important and
Speaker 4: formative because of Daphne's suitcases matching her dress.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, the other members of Mystery Ink have
Speaker 1: also received letters inviting them to Spooky Island. None of
Speaker 1: them know that the other members of the group were
Speaker 1: going to be there, and so they kind of reluctantly
Speaker 1: bored the flight to Spooky Island. On the plane, Shaggy
Speaker 1: meets a woman named Mary Jane lay By Isle of Fisher.
Speaker 4: Incredible that that is what she's doing in this movie,
Speaker 4: Mary Jane.
Speaker 3: Again, we're in the heat of Shrek and these things
Speaker 3: will happen.
Speaker 1: And Mary Jane and Shaggy have a lot in common,
Speaker 1: and they're flirting, they're vibing, they're lamping.
Speaker 3: Maybe even we have to get it. We have to
Speaker 3: stop saying it. We have to.
Speaker 1: Okay. So they arrive on Spooky Island and meet Emil
Speaker 1: Mondavarius ka Rowan Atkinson aka mister Bean.
Speaker 3: We do quick? Have I mentioned this on the show?
Speaker 4: I think about it frequently as a big James A
Speaker 4: castor fan.
Speaker 3: Do you know where I'm going with this? Oh? Yes, okay.
Speaker 4: I love James a Caster. He whatever he's doing right now,
Speaker 4: I wish him well. He released an amazing special and
Speaker 4: I think, like twenty twenty or twenty twenty one, I
Speaker 4: think calls like called like cold Lasagna in nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 4: want to kill myself, something like that. The thrust of
Speaker 4: this thrust Caitlin, the thrust of the special involves him
Speaker 4: after like years, I think, close to a decade, disclosing
Speaker 4: that his one time fiance left him for mister Bean,
Speaker 4: and how as a comedian it was a very challenging
Speaker 4: secret to keep due to the fact that it was
Speaker 4: a devastating to his life and b being left for
Speaker 4: mister Bean is kind of the funniest way to be
Speaker 4: abandoned by someone you love, to be like, sorry, I've
Speaker 4: fallen in love with mister Bean. I'm pregnant with mister
Speaker 4: Bean's baby.
Speaker 1: Gregmand with mister mister Greg Bean, and anyways, I wish
Speaker 1: them the best.
Speaker 4: Mister Bean still married to I'm not gonna give her
Speaker 4: government name, you know, like, but I just remember, I mean,
Speaker 4: it's a great special And I also was like, wow,
Speaker 4: James Acaster, classy for keeping that under your hat for
Speaker 4: ten years. I don't think I would have been that
Speaker 4: successful if if, if my beloved had had run out
Speaker 4: on me from one mister Bean. Anyways, mister Bean's on
Speaker 4: the island, yes, and he's not acting stilly, and so
Speaker 4: we're like, something's up.
Speaker 1: So he believes he runs the amusement park Spooky Island,
Speaker 1: and I think the island is also called Spooky I'm
Speaker 1: not sure.
Speaker 3: Anyway, we don't know.
Speaker 1: He believes that someone is casting a magic spell on
Speaker 1: the college students who go to the park for spring break,
Speaker 1: and he believes this because they arrive all lively and excited,
Speaker 1: but when they leave, they're like kind of zombie esque.
Speaker 1: They're like just you know, dull and quiet.
Speaker 3: Just kind of like boring, boring.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, they don't leave, they're like I think the
Speaker 4: subtext to is like they arrive slutty, they leave.
Speaker 1: Not slutty, they're not horny.
Speaker 3: Just like interesting, what a quandary for mister Bean.
Speaker 1: Right, So the Scooby Gang gets to work on solving
Speaker 1: the mystery. Velma goes to an event I'm not sure where.
Speaker 1: This guy nagu Tauna is pissed at a Meal for
Speaker 1: building his park on this land and disturbing and displacing
Speaker 1: these like creatures slash ancient beings who lived on the island,
Speaker 1: and the island is a thoroughfare to a supernatural realm.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk all about that representation, yes, in a bit.
Speaker 4: At of the major weaknesses of a fine movie.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: So, now Nagoo is a suspect on a different part
Speaker 1: of the island. Daphne is investigating and runs into this
Speaker 1: man who is doing a quote unquote voodoo ritual. We
Speaker 1: will also talk about how that is represented. And he's like,
Speaker 1: definitely do not go into the Spooky Island Castle, and
Speaker 1: so she's like, well, obviously I have to go there now. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Scooby is being lured into the creepy forest with the
Speaker 1: promise of a bag of hamburgers, and while he's there,
Speaker 1: he gets attacked. Scooby, Yes, he gets attacked by some
Speaker 1: kind of monster and he escapes and rushes over to Shaggy,
Speaker 1: who again is still flirting and vibing with Mary Jane.
Speaker 1: And then Daphne also shows up and she's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we got to go check out this castle. So they
Speaker 1: go to the castle. Fred and Velma are already there
Speaker 1: scoping things out, and it turns out to be this
Speaker 1: ride that's closed for maintenance, and the group splits up
Speaker 1: to search the castle for clues. Now, Fred and Velma
Speaker 1: find what appears to be a brainwashing facility for a cult. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Shaggy and Scooby find the set of a TV show
Speaker 1: and then they have a burping and farting contest there. Also,
Speaker 1: does that set ever come back in any way?
Speaker 4: Not that I could tell, No, And I do think,
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess that that is just like again,
Speaker 4: I mean and I mean it is maybe creatively foolish
Speaker 4: to have Scooby and Norvil shaggy rogers, you know, like
Speaker 4: in the mix and not.
Speaker 1: Farting farts and burps. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of their whole their whole thing came.
Speaker 1: Well, all come on and in the heat of trek
Speaker 1: and the of people and.
Speaker 4: Farting booming for a burping and farting extravagance. In fact,
Speaker 4: I'm on IMDb right now, brack Wow.
Speaker 3: Going to the.
Speaker 4: Tags, the tags for Scooby you two thousand and two.
Speaker 4: First tag farting contest. Wow, second tag two thousand's, third
Speaker 4: tag strong female Character, fourth tag fart.
Speaker 1: Okay, so.
Speaker 4: You know there's a lot of which I mean, if
Speaker 4: you if those aren't shreky in tags as well.
Speaker 1: I mean you could argue that you could. Yes, you
Speaker 1: certainly could. Okay, So the farting contest is happening. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Daphne finds this little like pyramid shaped relic of some kind,
Speaker 1: and so they all leave the castle and start doing
Speaker 1: further research. Velma goes to some kind of like restaurant
Speaker 1: lounge place to study the relic, which she thinks is
Speaker 1: something called the Damon Ritis, and this guy approaches her
Speaker 1: who's gonna kind of be her love interests sort of,
Speaker 1: but we never learn his names. Guy, I don't think.
Speaker 4: He couldn't be more script notes if he tried. This
Speaker 4: is a guy who wanders out of the ether he
Speaker 4: may not even be alive, and tries to force Velma
Speaker 4: Dinklely into like it's.
Speaker 3: Like Gillie, it's like Jeelie.
Speaker 4: What he's doing, He's he's just he's like, no canonically gay,
Speaker 4: you know, since clarified canonically gay.
Speaker 3: Character, you are my girlfriend.
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, okay, boo boo to the nameless
Speaker 1: script notes guy. Yeah, Well she tells him about Mystery Inc.
Speaker 1: And we get this flashback of the Scooby Gang in
Speaker 1: the Mystery Machine and Scrappy Doo is there and.
Speaker 4: He and now and now I'm really booing because I
Speaker 4: do you hate Scrappy do?
Speaker 3: Can we all agree he hate Scrapy?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I do, I do d o O. He's
Speaker 1: a b I T th WHOA okay anyway, he pisses
Speaker 1: all over Daphne. Yeah, so they kick him out of
Speaker 1: the group.
Speaker 3: He pisses all over Did you hear that sentence? Yeah,
Speaker 3: Scrappy Doo huge ooh I hate.
Speaker 4: Scrappy Doo and even as a kid, I think kids
Speaker 4: find Scrappy Doo grating obnoxious. He tucks in his little well,
Speaker 4: he's Scooby Doo is his uncle, and he's disrespectful to him.
Speaker 1: See, I, I guess have mixed feelings because while the
Speaker 1: character is you know, annoying and not a good person,
Speaker 1: not a good.
Speaker 3: Dog, bad dog, bad dog.
Speaker 1: But it's revealed that he has he's not a puppy,
Speaker 1: which I think is maybe commonly assumed that he is
Speaker 1: because he's small. But it's like, but they're like, he's
Speaker 1: not even a puppy. He has a gland disorder. And
Speaker 1: then all the characters laugh at him for it. They're
Speaker 1: like making fun of him for something he can't help.
Speaker 4: So that I, again, I canonically choose to believe that
Speaker 4: that was a script note to make Scrappy more sympathetic
Speaker 4: to audiences because he is I because I do. I
Speaker 4: mean that on its face absolutely ablest. Yeah, but that
Speaker 4: is not canonical to the character Scrappy Do. What is
Speaker 4: cononical to the character Scrappy Do is.
Speaker 3: Being annoying and I, oh, oh, he just pisses me off.
Speaker 4: And I have a specific when he gets jacked at
Speaker 4: the end of the movie spoiler alert when he gets jacked,
Speaker 4: that CG has never sat well.
Speaker 1: It's so scary, honestly, some of the worst CG that
Speaker 1: two thousand and two had to offer. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe it's just because they had a low budget. But
Speaker 1: this had an eighty four million dollar budget.
Speaker 4: No, they they could have and they didn't, and it
Speaker 4: requires it requires there should there should have been a
Speaker 4: federal investigation about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, so we learn about we meet you know, Scrappy
Speaker 1: Doo on screen in this movie for the first time,
Speaker 1: and he gets kicked out of the group. We cut
Speaker 1: back to the present and suddenly monsters attack and abduct
Speaker 1: Fred and Velma.
Speaker 3: Because monsters are real question.
Speaker 1: Mark, We don't no, but I think yes, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think in this world yes, which is you know,
Speaker 4: we don't have time to get into it, debate amongst yourselves.
Speaker 1: So Fred and Velma have been abducted, so now it's
Speaker 1: up to Daphne, Shaggy Scooby, and also Mary Jane is
Speaker 1: there to solve the mystery and save their friends.
Speaker 4: Also Mary Jane is there. It does sort of some
Speaker 4: of how that character is treated throughout the.
Speaker 3: Movie, right, she's there also, she is there.
Speaker 1: But the next day, after they've like all passed out
Speaker 1: on the beach for some reason, everything seems back to normal,
Speaker 1: as if there was no monster attack. And then Sugar
Speaker 1: Ray is there putting on a concert and nineties icon
Speaker 1: Mark McGrath.
Speaker 3: He's up to start.
Speaker 1: He starts singing to Daphne, but then she notices that
Speaker 1: his eyes have this green glow.
Speaker 4: Because he has supernatural powers to doy, oh, I forgot
Speaker 4: about that cameo. What a treat for Mark McGrath to
Speaker 4: have his eyes start glowing green, trying to get Sarah
Speaker 4: Michelle Gellar to fall for his little tricks, Like just
Speaker 4: really unbelievable stuff. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: So his eyes are green, which is the color of Shrek.
Speaker 1: You know, I bet originally in the heat of Shrek, Shrek,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to make things green.
Speaker 3: Bet it was red originally. But they're like, no, no, no, green.
Speaker 4: Green is green is the warmest color in two thousand
Speaker 4: and two in the Heat of Shrek.
Speaker 3: Forget it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Shaggy finds Fred, whose eyes are also glowing green. Oh,
Speaker 1: along with basically all the other people on the island
Speaker 1: because they're possessed, and then they're also talking in a
Speaker 1: way that feels very culturally appropriative. Yes, for some reason.
Speaker 3: We will get back to that too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they are also trying to possess Shaggy and Scooby,
Speaker 1: who escape on a pair of four wheelers and they
Speaker 1: link back up with Mary Jane, but oh no, Scooby
Speaker 1: sees that she has green eyes too, and when he
Speaker 1: tries to tell Shaggy about it, Shaggy doesn't believe him,
Speaker 1: and so they kind of like have a fight, and
Speaker 1: then they all end up in this cave where Shaggy
Speaker 1: finds this like well type thing.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of plot. There's a lot of plot
Speaker 3: in this area, and you're just sort of.
Speaker 4: Like, h.
Speaker 1: So, there's this well where all of the possessed, the
Speaker 1: people who have been possessed, they're like spirits slash souls
Speaker 1: slash protoplasms or swimming around, and Shaggy finds Velma's spirit
Speaker 1: and releases it so it can return to her body,
Speaker 1: and then the monster that was possessing Velma's body is
Speaker 1: kind of like forced out and explodes in the sunlight.
Speaker 1: So she realizes that these monsters need human bodies to
Speaker 1: survive and like walk around in the sunlight, which is
Speaker 1: why they're possessing all of these college kids. Shaggy then
Speaker 1: also saves Fred and Daphne, and then there's this body
Speaker 1: swap scene where the protoplasms returned to the wrong bodies
Speaker 1: and it.
Speaker 3: Is well, I mean, I'm sure we'll circle back to
Speaker 3: that scene as.
Speaker 4: Well, but like the it felt very of the era
Speaker 4: where whenever one of the men's spirits would be transported
Speaker 4: into a woman's body, you would hear it just was
Speaker 4: very like prescriptive, where it's like the men's spirits would
Speaker 4: always be like, hey, this is my personality. But when
Speaker 4: it was the women's spirit, when it was a man
Speaker 4: spirit going into one of the into Daphnie or Velma's bodies,
Speaker 4: it was like, look at my boob, I'm gonna like.
Speaker 3: It's just it was very like creepy, or.
Speaker 1: Like, Daphne, don't you eat anything? What's wrong?
Speaker 4: That was like, oh, my god, saying that to a
Speaker 4: young woman in two thousand and two, are you that's
Speaker 4: not it's not funny. One of the most fucking evil
Speaker 4: times for talking about women's bodies in the last you know, century,
Speaker 4: it's just it's just very ugly behavior. Yeah, that whole sequence, well,
Speaker 4: I think that there were interesting opportunities for that sequence
Speaker 4: sure fell flat for.
Speaker 1: Me, I agree. Also reminded me of a similar sequence
Speaker 1: in Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and it was also.
Speaker 4: A little bit freaky Friday, although that's you know, just
Speaker 4: between mother and a duaa. But just if there's any
Speaker 4: body swap with a person with breasts, they're going to
Speaker 4: grope themselves. Yes, and the implications will be complicated and
Speaker 4: it will not be very fun to watch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seemed it was a bit of a mess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So eventually everyone ends up in the right body
Speaker 1: and Velma figures out that the creatures are about to
Speaker 1: perform the Dark copp Lips Ritual, another incredible naming convention. Yep,
Speaker 1: great turn of phrase, where the leader, whoever the leader is,
Speaker 1: needs to absorb a purely good soul to complete the ritual,
Speaker 1: and once the ritual is performed, the creatures will rule
Speaker 1: the world for ten thousand years.
Speaker 3: Who's got a pure soul? Ah?
Speaker 1: Well, of course it's Scooby Dooby.
Speaker 4: Doo, even though he did bully his nephew but outside
Speaker 4: of that pretty pure.
Speaker 1: M hmmm hmmm. And they realized that a Meal Mondavarius
Speaker 1: must be behind the whole thing since he invited Scooby
Speaker 1: and the gang to the island. So they go back
Speaker 1: to the cave to try to stop the ritual and
Speaker 1: save Scooby Doo, who has been kidnapped. But they get
Speaker 1: caught and Scooby's spirit gets plucked out of his body,
Speaker 1: but Shaggy saves him and he knocks over a Meal Mondavarius.
Speaker 4: When we're at the point in the movie where it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: the steaks are Scooby Doo's very soul.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the soul, the eternal soul of do.
Speaker 4: I was just like, this movie is like unbelievably great.
Speaker 4: I had a list of things that happen in order
Speaker 4: of intensity and how much they shocked me.
Speaker 3: Mister Bean wants Scubert to take advantage of his pure soul.
Speaker 3: That's the meeting that takes place, and there's a great
Speaker 3: shot where.
Speaker 4: Scooby Doo is smiling at a picture of himself, yes
Speaker 4: and laughing. Next, mister Bean wants Scooby to sacrifice himself
Speaker 4: to God. Basically, then mister Bean wants to absorb Scooby
Speaker 4: Doo's soul so.
Speaker 3: He can live forever.
Speaker 4: And then what we're about to get to Freddie Prince
Speaker 4: Junior pulls off mister Bean's face to reveal that he's
Speaker 4: a chucky cheese animatronic robot.
Speaker 1: Yes, and the person inside or the being inside is
Speaker 1: scrappy Do.
Speaker 4: Crappy Do, and where like mister Bean was scrappy Do?
Speaker 3: And what does that mean in the context of the
Speaker 3: James A. Caster story?
Speaker 1: Whoa Well? And then it's I'm getting ahead of myself here,
Speaker 1: but it's revealed that there is actually a guy named
Speaker 1: Emil Mondavarius and Scrappy Do had been like hiding him
Speaker 1: in a dungeon for the past two years.
Speaker 4: Unlike, we can't even talk about the political implications of
Speaker 4: what took place on Spooky Island, like.
Speaker 3: It is just absolutely it's sick. It's sick what was done?
Speaker 1: M hmm, Okay, So Scrappy Doo turns out to be
Speaker 1: the bad guy and he has absorbed enough souls to
Speaker 1: turn into this big muscular monster dog thing and he's
Speaker 1: trying to kill Scooby and the others. But meanwhile, Daphne
Speaker 1: has escaped and she like goes up onto the mountain
Speaker 1: and opens the vents to let the sunlight in. But
Speaker 1: there's this luchador guy who I forgot to mention earlier,
Speaker 1: but he's friends with Nagua and he shows up up
Speaker 1: and so she fights him because she's no longer the
Speaker 1: damsel in distress. She's it's cheap, the cheap move.
Speaker 3: It's a cheap move, but you know, yes, we're cheering.
Speaker 1: So she's fighting him, and she opens up the vent
Speaker 1: and the light comes in, and then down below the
Speaker 1: others are able to stop Scrappy Doo. This is when
Speaker 1: they find the real a meal Mandavarius. Everyone reunites, some
Speaker 1: people kiss each other or they're like canoodling, and the
Speaker 1: possessed college kids go back to normal and the day
Speaker 1: is saved. And then the movie ends with Shaggy and
Speaker 1: Scooby eating a big meal the end.
Speaker 3: Like them do do.
Speaker 4: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll rewright.
Speaker 1: And we're rack.
Speaker 3: We're rack.
Speaker 4: With your permission, I would like to start this discussion, yea,
Speaker 4: with the discussion of queerness within the Scooby universe, please,
Speaker 4: So there's quite a bit to discuss here. I think
Speaker 4: like as we sort of alluded to earlier in the episode,
Speaker 4: there is a fair amount of.
Speaker 3: Just like lore as far as it goes.
Speaker 4: I think the characters who have been most famously queer
Speaker 4: coded in the crew, I think Velma is the most
Speaker 4: popularly discussed one. Going back to the show's initial release,
Speaker 4: there was always, I guess, sort of an undercurrent of
Speaker 4: questioning what her sexuality was.
Speaker 3: You know, I think it's reasonable in a children's cartoons.
Speaker 4: Like it wasn't addressed, and I don't think at the
Speaker 4: time it would have ever been. I think that the
Speaker 4: main certainly not and what you did know, And I
Speaker 4: think because you have in this group, you have like
Speaker 4: four very specific types that make sense for nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 4: You have a stoner, you have a quote unquote like
Speaker 4: nerdy girl, you have a popular girl, and you have a.
Speaker 3: Jock, all very typed characters.
Speaker 4: But what I think is cool is like you don't
Speaker 4: usually see these characters as like being close friends. However,
Speaker 4: inside of that, the quote unquote cool guy and cool
Speaker 4: girl friend Daphne, they're always paired together. That is very
Speaker 4: much implied within this movie as well, to the point
Speaker 4: where they cast a married couple as Fred and.
Speaker 1: Daphne right, and then they kiss at the end, and then.
Speaker 3: They kiss at the end. I mean, it's and that's
Speaker 3: very inherent to who those characters have been speculated to be.
Speaker 4: But I think that Scooby Doo two thousand and two
Speaker 4: and Scooby dooee scholars I'm sure could trace this earlier.
Speaker 3: But starting in Scooby Doo two.
Speaker 4: This at least was attempted to be like these long
Speaker 4: discussions because there also was discussion of potential queer coding
Speaker 4: for Fred.
Speaker 3: This was sort of the first.
Speaker 4: Time that this was even attempted to be addressed in
Speaker 4: the Scooby Doo be universe.
Speaker 3: So what that means?
Speaker 4: And James Gunn addressed this in a twenty twenty Twitter thread.
Speaker 3: Because he just the man loves to talk. There were
Speaker 3: two characters who.
Speaker 4: Were planned to be explicitly queer to some extent. Fred's
Speaker 4: character is a little more complicated, so we'll get to
Speaker 4: that in a second. But James Gunn says in twenty twenty,
Speaker 4: in two thousand and one, Velma was explicitly gay in
Speaker 4: my initial script, but the studio just kept watering it
Speaker 4: down and watering it down, becoming ambiguous. The version shot,
Speaker 4: then nothing released version, and finally having a boyfriend the sequel,
Speaker 4: although I would argue that she's basically given a boyfriend
Speaker 4: in the original as well.
Speaker 1: Right, and then the sequel, Seth Green shows up and
Speaker 1: he becomes her.
Speaker 3: Love interest, and you know, and I have no comment.
Speaker 4: I have no comment to my dear friend Seth Green,
Speaker 4: and later, like Linda Cardelini, would also comment on this,
Speaker 4: all of the actors. I think that the difference between
Speaker 4: I feel like there is this tendency for writers creators
Speaker 4: in general, to like course correct their work in retrospect,
Speaker 4: to be like, oh well, I actually like I think
Speaker 4: that the most popular example from one of the worst
Speaker 4: people of all time was when JK. Rowling originally was like,
Speaker 4: actually Dumbledore was gay. I just didn't write it down,
Speaker 4: but I meant too, and you're just like, okay, Evil,
Speaker 4: be quiet. But I think that this story is actually
Speaker 4: different because the actors all corroborated this, and there was
Speaker 4: stuff shot.
Speaker 3: It was written in the heat of Shrek.
Speaker 4: I think that James Gunn's script was approved as a
Speaker 4: more I mean problematic in its own ways, but even
Speaker 4: just an attempt at LGBT representation at all. In two
Speaker 4: thousand and two in a kid's movie would have been
Speaker 4: you know, different, and it would have meant something, but
Speaker 4: it was all cut out and mister script notes was
Speaker 4: added and on all of this. Linda Cardilini has also
Speaker 4: commented on this. She said, Velma has been around since
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty nine. I just went trick or treating with
Speaker 4: my daughter and there were a lot of Velmas out there,
Speaker 4: and so I love that she still has this place
Speaker 4: in culture that is always.
Speaker 3: Sort of active for decades.
Speaker 4: I think her being a lesbian has been hinted at
Speaker 4: so many times, and I think it's great that it's
Speaker 4: finally out there, which is in response to the first
Speaker 4: time that Velma Dinkley was explicitly stated as a queer
Speaker 4: character is in twenty twenty two, like exactly a year
Speaker 4: ago to the day we're recording this happy coming out
Speaker 4: anniversary to Velma. In a TV movie called Trigger treat
Speaker 4: Scooby Doo, she's depicted as a queer woman who has
Speaker 4: a crush on a character named Coco Diablo.
Speaker 3: Because of course, sure we're not covering that movie. And
Speaker 3: then in the in the Mindy Kaling.
Speaker 4: Iteration, I believe she's bisexual and I believe in the
Speaker 4: Mindy Kaling version, Daphne is also bisexual.
Speaker 1: I couldn't say don't know anything about.
Speaker 4: It again Scooby dooe scholars sound off, but I think
Speaker 4: that like the fact that truly like it's an interesting
Speaker 4: kind of yardstick to measure what is considered quote unquote
Speaker 4: acceptable in widespread children's media. That it was literally just
Speaker 4: last year that Velma was.
Speaker 3: Was a queer character in a way that like was
Speaker 3: not challenged, but there were I think.
Speaker 4: That Scooby Doo two thousand and two is kind of
Speaker 4: the earliest meaningful attempt from what I was able to gathera.
Speaker 3: Fred was also written to be a queer character.
Speaker 4: Freddie Brince Prince Junior has stated in interviews that that
Speaker 4: was what he was told when he took the part,
Speaker 4: and so his performance was that was his performance.
Speaker 3: And then the way that it was edited didn't honor that.
Speaker 4: But I do think it's interesting that the actors were
Speaker 4: playing queer characters, but the movie would not let them
Speaker 4: actually be those characters. The scene that was shot and
Speaker 4: cut the I think most explicitly, there was a kiss
Speaker 4: between Daphne and Velma. Apparently in this scene Daphne and
Speaker 4: Fred are together and they run into drunk Velma when
Speaker 4: she's at the bar, and she's I guess, like flirting ambiguously,
Speaker 4: and it seems like she's actually flirting with Daphne. That's
Speaker 4: what got shot. There was a kiss written into the
Speaker 4: script that never got shot. And to conclude, Sarah Mitchell
Speaker 4: Geller also commented on this all the way back in
Speaker 4: two thousand and two, like, this.
Speaker 3: Is very inherent to this movie.
Speaker 4: Sarah Michell Geller told sci Fi Wire in two thousand
Speaker 4: and two that a Velment and Daphnie kissing scene was
Speaker 4: cut out from the film.
Speaker 3: Quote, it wasn't just like for fun.
Speaker 4: Initially, in the soul swapping, velmentt and Daphnie could not
Speaker 4: seem to get their souls back together in the woods,
Speaker 4: and so the way they found was to kiss, and
Speaker 4: the souls went back into.
Speaker 3: The proper alignment unquote.
Speaker 4: So that soul swapping scene that we discussed as not
Speaker 4: loving was also initially difference, and I guess significantly rewritten.
Speaker 3: So I think it is interesting.
Speaker 4: I will sort of leave it to individual listeners to decide,
Speaker 4: but I mean, I do think that that would have
Speaker 4: made a difference and certainly would have impacted the direction
Speaker 4: that this Goopy franchise took for there if James Gun's
Speaker 4: original script had been honored. But I think it's just
Speaker 4: very frustrating and telling that this like simple choice that
Speaker 4: seemed like it would have been pretty consistent with who
Speaker 4: the general public thought these characters to be wouldn't be
Speaker 4: honored for another twenty years.
Speaker 3: Wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's like additional coding with Velma's character and
Speaker 1: then kind of how she's compared to Daphne, because, as
Speaker 1: you were saying the whole, you know, these characters are
Speaker 1: very stereotyped as being you know, one's the jock, one's
Speaker 1: the smart girl, one's the hot girl, one's this stonor
Speaker 1: This movie honors those like very archetypal type of character
Speaker 1: pretty in a way that's like not at all challenged.
Speaker 1: And I think it's just because, like, you know, Daphne
Speaker 1: is like the hot one quote unquote who's like always
Speaker 1: being damseled, and she's depicted as being not as smart
Speaker 1: as Velma because Velma is the smart one, and she
Speaker 1: therefore cannot be hot also by the movies logic, and well.
Speaker 4: I feel like that was a little like complicated in
Speaker 4: the scrape of the movie, because it's like the movie
Speaker 4: acknowledged because it's like, obviously these the girls are hot,
Speaker 4: like they're both right, well.
Speaker 3: Be serious, stop joking around, stop fucking with me.
Speaker 4: But the way that I thought that was addressed because
Speaker 4: it's like, I mean, Velma, I feel like is very peak, like.
Speaker 3: You would be so beautiful if you take of your
Speaker 3: glasses girl.
Speaker 4: And that has always been true, like she's always been
Speaker 4: like an adorable character. And the way that it's addressed
Speaker 4: in this movie is that Fred at one point says
Speaker 4: to Velma like that, He's like, no, I get it.
Speaker 3: Like you're you're also hot.
Speaker 1: He says, dorky girls like you turn me onto Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're like scoffs at it, and he's like, what it's
Speaker 1: a compliment.
Speaker 3: That that was a disaster.
Speaker 4: I think that as close as the movie comes to
Speaker 4: acknowledging that, like these women are both gorgeous, but yeah,
Speaker 4: like like you're saying, like plays into the stereotypes surrounding
Speaker 4: the stock characters that I don't know, I mean, I
Speaker 4: I think that the movie did better than I was
Speaker 4: expecting it to off of memory, just in the I
Speaker 4: don't know, the weird middle place where I felt I
Speaker 4: had feelings about this surrounding the recent Barbie movie as well,
Speaker 4: where it felt like the movie had a real vested
Speaker 4: interest in commenting on the perception of a long standing
Speaker 4: character more so than presenting this is who this character
Speaker 4: is and they're fully realized. It's more like very like
Speaker 4: self aware kind of writing where you're like, well, I
Speaker 4: know how everyone thinks of Barbie as like a bimbo
Speaker 4: who can't do anything, So I'm going to present that
Speaker 4: image and then challenge it throughout the course of the movie,
Speaker 4: or like with I think that that is.
Speaker 3: Like pretty I guess more so with Daphne.
Speaker 4: But like presents Daphne as like, well, we all think
Speaker 4: of Daphne as this damsel.
Speaker 3: In distress, but what if she had a problem with.
Speaker 4: That, and then that's her that's her journey throughout the movie,
Speaker 4: which I don't really have a problem with it, just
Speaker 4: it seems like it's like a step towards being able
Speaker 4: to do something more with that character. Is like addressing
Speaker 4: I don't know, there's more, there's plenty of ways to
Speaker 4: handle that, but like addressing the public perception, pushing the
Speaker 4: character through that public perception and.
Speaker 3: Then hopefully moving them onto something cooler. But I don't know.
Speaker 4: Daffey's story I thought was interesting. I think it's like
Speaker 4: tricky because she is still presented as like not as
Speaker 4: smart as the rest of the group at different moments.
Speaker 4: But I was, you know, in the heat of Shrek,
Speaker 4: I was, I guess, like gently impressed at how she
Speaker 4: did sort of like tackle people's assumptions about her fairly
Speaker 4: head on. And you know, by the end of the movie,
Speaker 4: had you know, dismantled that view of her, where like
Speaker 4: when the first time she says she has a black belt,
Speaker 4: it's sort of implied that no one believes her.
Speaker 3: And then at the end she fights.
Speaker 4: A lucha door so okay, right, which.
Speaker 1: Mirrors the evolution of her character and how it went
Speaker 1: in the various like series where in the original animated
Speaker 1: series that you know premier in the late sixties, she
Speaker 1: was very much just like danger prone, you know, she
Speaker 1: didn't seem to have a lot to contribute, and she
Speaker 1: was always the one getting kidnapped. But then later versions
Speaker 1: of the show made a change to her character, so
Speaker 1: like versions that came out in the nineties and two
Speaker 1: thousands had her knowing martial arts and like being able
Speaker 1: to defend herself. So cool movie recognized that and was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna like kind of show that whole arc in
Speaker 1: this movie. So yeah, she opens up being damseled, Like
Speaker 1: in that opening scene, she's not only been kidnapped but
Speaker 1: also the ghost. I think it's implied that it keeps
Speaker 1: like touching her butt, and.
Speaker 3: Yes it is, and you're just like.
Speaker 1: And it's presented in a very like jokey way, so
Speaker 1: that's yeah, like of course, right, and then she's fed
Speaker 1: up with always being the damsel in distress. So in
Speaker 1: the two years where the group has disbanded, she has
Speaker 1: learned martial arts, and but then throughout a big chunk
Speaker 1: of the movie, she's still I guess it's a matter
Speaker 1: of her, you know, being like I can do this.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get captured again. Oops I did get captured,
Speaker 1: And so there's like this.
Speaker 4: It's definitely stop and go, and I like and I
Speaker 4: feel like there's a lot of ways to view it.
Speaker 4: I yeah, I was struggling with that because you're like, Okay,
Speaker 4: they're not really like, you know, Mary suing her, but
Speaker 4: also it felt like it was playing her recapture is
Speaker 4: more of a joke.
Speaker 3: Than anything else. I don't know. I think that if,
Speaker 3: like if this storyline.
Speaker 4: For Daphne was presented in a movie that came out today,
Speaker 4: I would be really exhausted by it because she's.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm not a damsel in distress, uh.
Speaker 4: Which I think at this is like pretty overdone and
Speaker 4: hackneyed and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: But for the time I think.
Speaker 4: That it was like it's it's at least an interesting
Speaker 4: way to kind of publicly course correct the character. As
Speaker 4: I don't know, I think that they could have done
Speaker 4: more to be like, she's actually a very competent person,
Speaker 4: and there's a way. I think that the Barbie boovie
Speaker 4: does this far more effectively of saying like hyper femininity
Speaker 4: or even just traditionally feminine qualities and aesthetics does not
Speaker 4: equal weakness, does not equal incompetence, does not equal being
Speaker 4: lesser that which it. Like the Daphne character, I think
Speaker 4: that that is like that's where that is headed.
Speaker 3: And I like that they.
Speaker 4: Don't, you know, they don't sacrifice, like what makes what
Speaker 4: is important? Like she likes wearing purple, and she likes
Speaker 4: having cool outfits and like I love that for her,
Speaker 4: and I.
Speaker 3: Like that, you know, as she's proving that that.
Speaker 4: It's not like I feel like sometimes you get sort
Speaker 4: of when when women are you know, asked to like
Speaker 4: step up and become leaders, they have to, they're asked
Speaker 4: to shed elements of who they are, and it's like,
Speaker 4: if that's something that you want to do, great, but
Speaker 4: it feels almost like the way to be taken seriously
Speaker 4: is to present more masculine, and Daphne does not do that.
Speaker 3: Barbie does not do that right. It's it's like, I think,
Speaker 3: a worthwhile message, but yeah, the way that she's characterized
Speaker 3: is very kind of It was hit and miss for
Speaker 3: me Seene to see.
Speaker 1: For me, I didn't mind the arc of you know,
Speaker 1: deciding she basically she quits because she doesn't like that
Speaker 1: she's always being damseled or that that's like it almost
Speaker 1: feels like a commentary on the just the idea of
Speaker 1: being damsel.
Speaker 3: Does somebody say commentary?
Speaker 1: And you know, she decides to take matters into her
Speaker 1: own hands, but then applying the skills that she learned
Speaker 1: obviously is going to take some time to get used to,
Speaker 1: and so she still is you know, she's she's working
Speaker 1: out the kinks as the story goes, but then by
Speaker 1: the end her arc is fully realized with that fight
Speaker 1: with the luchador who is in the movie for some reason,
Speaker 1: and she kicks his ass, and you know, it's very
Speaker 1: a two thousand and two way to handle all of that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I didn't mind it terribly.
Speaker 4: I think a valiant attempt for two thousand and two
Speaker 4: in this arena. Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised. And I
Speaker 4: think that like the downside of that, which based on
Speaker 4: James Gunn's James Gunn's characterization, so we you know whatever,
Speaker 4: We can't say for totally sure, but it seems like
Speaker 4: the you know, Fred kiss at the end, I would
Speaker 4: guess that that's studio notes because that felt pretty unconnected
Speaker 4: to what her journey throughout the movie was.
Speaker 3: You don't even really see her.
Speaker 4: And Fred interacting very much like Fred's main story very
Speaker 4: much has to do with this like ego ego deaf
Speaker 4: in like acknowledging that Velma is a person who is
Speaker 4: smarter than him, so his story is unconnected to Daphne.
Speaker 3: So its just I think that like more so they're like, oh.
Speaker 4: We need we need a series of heterosexual moments because
Speaker 4: it's the end of the movie and these two characters
Speaker 4: are already publicly associated as husband and wife and also.
Speaker 3: Cartoon boyfriend girlfriend brant makeup kiss.
Speaker 4: But even that, that felt like I liked that Daphne's
Speaker 4: main story was, you know, like it is like a
Speaker 4: proto like but for a kids movie in two thousand
Speaker 4: and two.
Speaker 3: I think it works. And I.
Speaker 4: Enjoyed Sarah Michelle Galler's performance. And did I enjoy the outfits?
Speaker 3: Yes, I did? I love those? Damn it? Any other
Speaker 3: any other thoughts on Diffney, Oh, you're wearing your Flubber
Speaker 3: Mambo T shirt?
Speaker 1: Yes, I sure am in the heat of flubber.
Speaker 3: In the heat of flubber.
Speaker 4: Another another huge green influencing I mean, what a decade
Speaker 4: for the color green Flubber track Jim Carrey Grinch on
Speaker 4: the same five year span incredible three year span ninety eight,
Speaker 4: two thousand, two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: Way flump wow, hm, mind blowing Kermit's impact.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, let's talk about dak Alright, let's talk about Velma.
Speaker 1: Yes, I similarly like that her arc is being frustrated
Speaker 1: that a man is taking credit for all of her
Speaker 1: work because she's like recognizably the best at solving mysteries.
Speaker 1: She is doing a lot of deductive reasoning. She understands
Speaker 1: what a lot of clues mean. She's doing a lot thing.
Speaker 1: It's her whole thing.
Speaker 3: She's always been the smartest person in the group.
Speaker 4: I will say the detail that she in the two
Speaker 4: year interim was kind of military industrial complexing.
Speaker 3: They say she was developing.
Speaker 4: Missiles for NASA, right, and you're like, now, that is
Speaker 4: a misapplication of Velma Dinkley's powers.
Speaker 3: I like to think that she is. She is a leftist.
Speaker 4: I was like, why is she making missiles for the government.
Speaker 4: Imagine being getting so mad at Freddy Prince Junior that
Speaker 4: you pivot to making missiles for the government. I know,
Speaker 4: I also making missiles for NASA. That also feels like
Speaker 4: a mismatch, because you're like, what is missiles to.
Speaker 1: Like fireing for aliens in outer space?
Speaker 4: It felt weird that they said she was making missiles
Speaker 4: for NASA. For NASA, hey, astronaut gangs. Now, I'm sure
Speaker 4: a lot of like people with doctorates listen to this
Speaker 4: show because we're so intellectual. So fucking yeah, we're just
Speaker 4: a really well educated show and That's why this.
Speaker 1: Master's degree well in screen writing from Boston University. Not
Speaker 1: that I'd ever mention it.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying that people that are geniuses want to
Speaker 4: listen to Scooby Doo for two hours. But she was
Speaker 4: like bad practice for Alma developing missiles in her off time.
Speaker 3: We will won't give it a past this time.
Speaker 4: But in the yeah, in the heat of nine to eleven,
Speaker 4: she's developing missiles, and I'm just like, these are I
Speaker 4: don't hold I think they're supposed to be in like
Speaker 4: I think you're supposed to be like college aged.
Speaker 3: So you're like, did Velma vote for Bush?
Speaker 4: Oh, she's developing missiles, Caitlin, I mean, I mean Daphnie.
Speaker 3: I would say Daphney. I think Daphne votes blue. No matter.
Speaker 3: I don't want to get into the politics of it.
Speaker 4: Shaggy's a libertarian, though that much is obvious.
Speaker 3: Shaggy Oh, he's.
Speaker 4: An independent thinker, which but like he doesn't know what
Speaker 4: he's talking about, which is very libertarian.
Speaker 1: Cut No, if Funny one it's a libertarian. I think
Speaker 1: it's Fred. I think Shaggy is green Parky.
Speaker 4: Shaggy doesn't vote. He doesn't vote, and Spooby. Scoopy is
Speaker 4: an anarchist. Well, yeah, Scooby wants to burn it all
Speaker 4: down because they don't let.
Speaker 3: Him vote, they don't let him voote.
Speaker 4: It's also Scooby gender non conforming icon in this movie.
Speaker 3: Before we get development because she's developing missiles, she has
Speaker 3: to wait for a second. Scooby.
Speaker 4: I don't have much to say about Scooby other than
Speaker 4: I mean, check this guy out.
Speaker 3: He looks a little scary in this movie, but that's.
Speaker 1: Not his fault. That's the fault of the bad CGI
Speaker 1: at the time.
Speaker 4: And Scoopy is you know, Scooby is a part of
Speaker 4: our lives, whether we like it or not.
Speaker 3: Scooby is a part of our lives.
Speaker 4: And you know, Scooby does where a dress. Scooby is
Speaker 4: in Grandma Drag during the plane scene.
Speaker 3: And you know, I didn't hate it. I didn't hate it.
Speaker 4: I think what was interesting about that scene is it
Speaker 4: Scooby's and Gradma drag.
Speaker 3: First of all, everyone on at the airport thinks falls
Speaker 3: for it, falls for it.
Speaker 1: Dan thinks it's hot. They're like this thing that's very
Speaker 1: visibly a dog in a dress.
Speaker 4: Dog.
Speaker 1: They're like a woogah.
Speaker 4: And then I think most interestingly, Scooby punches Fred in
Speaker 4: the face in Grandma Drag and it is never commented on.
Speaker 3: It doesn't come back Fred, there's no consequence. Fred just goes, oh.
Speaker 1: Well, he initiates the violence. He flicks Scooby on the nose. Scooby,
Speaker 1: I will sco punching him.
Speaker 3: That was out of pocket from Scooby. Ye, not that
Speaker 3: it was like, you.
Speaker 4: Know, this flicks certainly an invasion of personal space. But
Speaker 4: Scooby really dex Fred. And I'm sure I was laughing
Speaker 4: when I was when I was a child. Sure I'm
Speaker 4: laughing with Scooby punch his friend in the face. So
Speaker 4: I just wanted to give a quick shout out to
Speaker 4: Scooby gender nonconforming icon, Scooby self confidence icon, because when
Speaker 4: he's told he's pure of hearts, Scooby's not fighting it.
Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, that tracks, that makes sense.
Speaker 4: Scooby, you know, has some work to do as an uncle,
Speaker 4: but he's on the journey. I love Scooby, and I
Speaker 4: really I don't really have anything to it's not relevant
Speaker 4: to our discussion commenting on how much I like the
Speaker 4: scene between Matthew Lillard and Scoopy when he's like, Scooby,
Speaker 4: you're my best friend.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna let mister Bean do this to you.
Speaker 3: But I teared up. I thought it was really nice.
Speaker 3: And I think their friendship.
Speaker 4: I mean, Scooby and Shaggy they're special together. They're special together,
Speaker 4: and I love them. All Right, let's go back to Velma.
Speaker 1: Yes, so Velma is fed up with this man taking
Speaker 1: credit for her work. Yep, and she quits. Then Fred's
Speaker 1: arc becomes about learning to respect Velma and recognize and
Speaker 1: acknowledge her contributions to the group, and to stop taking
Speaker 1: credit for her work. The bar is very low here,
Speaker 1: and yet but that is his arc. And yet we're
Speaker 1: cheering and we're clapping when it happens.
Speaker 4: Yes, we're like yay, Yeah, we are really conditioned to
Speaker 4: accept very little from Fred here, because I like found
Speaker 4: myself on my first watch congratulating Fred on things that
Speaker 4: were like nonsensical.
Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, he acknowledged that Velma is an attractive person,
Speaker 3: And you're just like, why am I giving Fred credit
Speaker 3: for nothing? Yeah?
Speaker 4: But yeah, his arc is that he like learns to
Speaker 4: conceive some of the credit. I don't really remember within
Speaker 4: I don't know. I guess I just never had. Hopefully
Speaker 4: Scooby fans won't take this personally. I never had a
Speaker 4: very vested interest in Fred. I would say, if I'm
Speaker 4: ranking the characters, he is dead last. Wait, rank them,
Speaker 4: ranked them really quick and include Scooby.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, Well go it's important.
Speaker 3: Scooby number one, good, good, good, keep going.
Speaker 1: I would say, with Alma, number two, daph Name number three, Shaggy,
Speaker 1: and maybe this.
Speaker 3: Is still great, but he is he.
Speaker 1: I find him kind of irritating.
Speaker 3: Are you ranking Fred above Shaggy?
Speaker 1: No? But Fred is last. But I just don't have
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for Shaggy. Although I do relate.
Speaker 4: You're like Shaggy needs to get his ass up at work.
Speaker 3: Shaggy, I do relate.
Speaker 1: To his interest in food. I like that he's always hungry.
Speaker 1: I'm always hungry.
Speaker 4: Wow, you're like Shaggy lazy, lazy.
Speaker 1: It's more that I I don't know. Would I want
Speaker 1: to date Shaggy? Noe? Do I want to date Fred?
Speaker 3: That's not what's on. I'm not what's on. But how
Speaker 3: fuckable as Shaggy to you? No one asked? No one asked.
Speaker 5: Although I think I have dated a kind of a
Speaker 5: serious of shaggy tests, to the point where first time
Speaker 5: currently dated dating showed up to my house the other
Speaker 5: day accidentally, you know, like accidental minion, when someone's wearing
Speaker 5: yellow top and jeans, accidental shaggy.
Speaker 1: Oh, green shirt, green shirt, corduroy pants.
Speaker 3: Scary, wow, scary awesome.
Speaker 1: But well maybe he was trying to look like Shrek.
Speaker 4: But then you're gonna need to get a vest, and
Speaker 4: for someone to have a vest it is just so
Speaker 4: Shrek intentional.
Speaker 1: So Shrekian, if you will, yes.
Speaker 4: In the Shrekian heat. My my writings are the same
Speaker 4: as yours, except.
Speaker 3: I am swapping Daphnie and Palma.
Speaker 4: Okay, but yeah, obviously Scooby number one, let's not play around.
Speaker 1: I love a talking animal Paddington.
Speaker 3: Hello, I don't even like a talking animal. I love
Speaker 3: Scoopy Ruby Ruby Roo. And I think it's only because
Speaker 3: he like he talks. Scooby. Hmmm, that's a character in
Speaker 3: this tone poem.
Speaker 4: Scooby only speaks when he has something to say, he's
Speaker 4: not just running his map. I really appreciate that, and
Speaker 4: a character I appreciate.
Speaker 3: When he's he is careful.
Speaker 6: He he can speak English as a dog.
Speaker 4: He can speak English, but he's not you know, he's
Speaker 4: not waxing.
Speaker 1: Poems his words very carefully.
Speaker 4: And that's not to say he doesn't have a very
Speaker 4: rich interior life, because you know he does. You know,
Speaker 4: there's a lot going on in that big old dog
Speaker 4: cranium of his.
Speaker 1: Although there is one thing he says that I did
Speaker 1: not like one bit, and it's when he's trying to
Speaker 1: convince Shaggy that Mary Jane is actually a monster, and
Speaker 1: Shaggy is like, nah, I don't believe you, first of all,
Speaker 1: believe Scooby's. Secondly, Scooby's response to that is saying, you're whipped.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I was like, first of all, who told
Speaker 3: Scooby what that means?
Speaker 1: Who taught him that?
Speaker 3: And you know, maybe not.
Speaker 4: To call Shaggy out as a bad you know, parent,
Speaker 4: slush friend. I bit Shaggy taugh him that there.
Speaker 3: You think Scooby learned that on the beach where.
Speaker 1: I think Scooby learned it from Fred?
Speaker 4: Ah, very possible, very possible. Yeah, And I think that
Speaker 4: that is I'm grateful. I mean, I not that I
Speaker 4: think that the concept of being quote unquote whipped has
Speaker 4: made its way out of media entirely.
Speaker 3: I do think that.
Speaker 4: Phrase has has sort of gone the way gone the
Speaker 4: way of Jim Carrey.
Speaker 3: Grinch's not around anymore.
Speaker 1: It did, but I haven't heard it in over a decade.
Speaker 4: I think, I think, yeah, and I think I think
Speaker 4: that that is that's you know, that's something. I was
Speaker 4: kind of jarred to hear that phrase because I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: I know, I kind of forgot that was a thing,
Speaker 4: And why is Scooby Doo saying it? And why was
Speaker 4: it really so pervasive that.
Speaker 3: Scooby Doo could say it and the Shaggy would be
Speaker 3: insulted by it?
Speaker 4: Because I think something that is nice about Shaggy in
Speaker 4: general is that he is a and also, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm ranking him four out of five, but the first
Speaker 4: three are so strong. I like Shaggy a lot, and
Speaker 4: I think that like he is a very emotionally generous
Speaker 4: and that a character in ways that men are not
Speaker 4: often depicted as being. He is effusive in all of
Speaker 4: his friendships with people of all genders, and in this
Speaker 4: relationship with Mary Jane, while she is a non character,
Speaker 4: as we'll get to, is like he's like openly liking her.
Speaker 3: He's not playing the fred game, he's not nagging her.
Speaker 3: He's like and so yeah.
Speaker 4: Again, for like the whipped thing to be introduced and
Speaker 4: for Shaggy to be insulted, it also just felt like
Speaker 4: out of character because you're.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't think Shaggy both of them gives a ship. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 3: what's getting into these boys? There's there's there's such nice guys.
Speaker 1: Well, it's these creatures that it's the monster.
Speaker 3: It's the monsters that were unleashed. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So that that I found to be That was not
Speaker 4: Scooby's best moment, but I have to believe that he
Speaker 4: grew from it. And I oh, Scoopy.
Speaker 3: All right, velma okay, so velma. Yeah. I do also
Speaker 3: like and it feels very of.
Speaker 4: The time and in that same sort of like mission
Speaker 4: that it seems like James Gunn had that we've been
Speaker 4: talking about of addressing just like the popular tropes or
Speaker 4: the popular opinions around this character and attempting to challenge them,
Speaker 4: which it seems like having her be explicitly queer in
Speaker 4: this movie was an extension of that mission, but barring that,
Speaker 4: like addressing like how she is always been considered to
Speaker 4: be the smartest person of the group but is.
Speaker 3: Not considered to be the leader.
Speaker 4: And why is that and like exploring that through the
Speaker 4: story I think is a really smart move.
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 4: Like, I mean, I don't know. I still think that
Speaker 4: Fred ends up a little bit too on top for
Speaker 4: my taste towards at the end of the movie, and that, Yeah,
Speaker 4: the conclusion of this movie just in general is tricky
Speaker 4: because I like Filma's journey. I obviously don't like scriptnotes boyfriend,
Speaker 4: but he's barely there. He kind of is just there
Speaker 4: to like set up a flashback and then comes back
Speaker 4: at the end. And I also don't I mean at
Speaker 4: the beginning in a way that I think that even
Speaker 4: though you don't get you know they intended I guess
Speaker 4: undercurrent that was intended Between Daphne and Velma. I think
Speaker 4: they have like a kind of a smaller but interesting
Speaker 4: story going on as well, where at the beginning of
Speaker 4: the movie, Velma is kind of on the like, I
Speaker 4: don't take Daphne seriously train like she says, you practically
Speaker 4: come with your own ransom note, Like she's very much
Speaker 4: on the side of Fred when it comes to Daphne
Speaker 4: standing up for herself and she and Daphne later on,
Speaker 4: once the monsters are unleashed, have that scene together where
Speaker 4: they figure something out together, and it's like, by the
Speaker 4: end of the movie, Velma I think has come around
Speaker 4: on not taking Daphne seriously and challenging her own assumption
Speaker 4: about her friend. And it's like, okay, so kiss, but
Speaker 4: it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: But I did appreciate that.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was like a smaller arc, but that
Speaker 4: Velma starts sort of I mean, it's like you see
Speaker 4: those dynamics in real life of like there are you know,
Speaker 4: two women in this group and one is turning on
Speaker 4: the other to try to gain favor of the shitty
Speaker 4: men that they're surrounded by.
Speaker 3: It's a dynamic that definitely exists.
Speaker 4: It sucks, but it exists, and it feels like that
Speaker 4: is sort of hinted at within this group. And then
Speaker 4: Velma to some extent realizes.
Speaker 3: The error of her ways, and I like that. I
Speaker 3: like and like Linda Cardalini is a great Velma true.
Speaker 4: Trope that is addressed in a way that I did
Speaker 4: not think was productive and was just like showing the
Speaker 4: thing was you'd be.
Speaker 3: So pretty if you took off your glasses.
Speaker 4: The sequence in which Filma's glasses are off, she's more
Speaker 4: sexualized immediately.
Speaker 1: Well, and this happens to an even greater extent in
Speaker 1: the sequel where she's trying to impress Seth Green. So
Speaker 1: Velma takes off her glasses, she suddenly has hair that's
Speaker 1: twice as long. I don't know if she put in
Speaker 1: some extensions or something. And then she's wearing this like
Speaker 1: pleather red, like very squeaky outfit that's like very form fitting,
Speaker 1: and she's doing this to impress Seth Green because that's
Speaker 1: what she thinks he's going to like. Yeah, the lesson
Speaker 1: she learns, well, the lesson she learns is that he
Speaker 1: didn't like and he never liked that. He liked her
Speaker 1: the way she was originally, and she's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's nice and I'll just be that way. And then
Speaker 1: they get together at the end, even though for half
Speaker 1: the time he's like kind of a villain or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I wasn't fully paying attention, but he's
Speaker 1: like maybe just a red hairring. I don't know, but.
Speaker 3: He's definitely a red hairring.
Speaker 1: The end that he has red hair.
Speaker 3: Did you think you know what when Fred was possessed
Speaker 3: by the monster. He very much.
Speaker 4: And I feel like I'm bringing up the Barbie Movie
Speaker 4: a lot also because we're kind of preparing to cover
Speaker 4: the Barbie Movie. And I saw the Barbie Movie. I
Speaker 4: have a lot of issues with it, but I saw
Speaker 4: four times in theaters. I have two Barbie Halloween costumes
Speaker 4: and I'm wearing.
Speaker 3: My Barbie crocs right now.
Speaker 4: Fred when he's possessed by the monster looks like Beach
Speaker 4: can see.
Speaker 1: I think that Freddie Prince Junior as Fred is he's giving,
Speaker 1: He's giving Ken Ken Ryan Goslins as the Barbie movie.
Speaker 3: Yes, I also made that, except that he is. I mean,
Speaker 3: I guess that. Well, we'll talk about the Barbie episode.
Speaker 3: Ryan Goslin.
Speaker 4: Ken is also absolved to a degree that I found
Speaker 4: to be a little silly, as is Fred. Because you know,
Speaker 4: these issues, they're cyclical. We just have to keep forgiving
Speaker 4: men with certain kinds of hair.
Speaker 3: But what were we talking about?
Speaker 4: Who can say, Oh, we were talking about how Velma
Speaker 4: is treated in the sequel. Well that I mean that
Speaker 4: that is nice, but also again an over rewarding of
Speaker 4: the male character to be like, wow, he liked so well.
Speaker 3: Woman for being a person.
Speaker 1: And then the reason I brought it up is because
Speaker 1: it's Daphne's idea for Velma to dress like that, and
Speaker 1: they have this really bizarre conversation where she's like, I'll
Speaker 1: help you pick out an outfit, and and before that,
Speaker 1: Velma's like, I don't know how to get him to
Speaker 1: like me. I'm not hot, and then Daphne's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not hot either. Anyway, let's go change our outfits. And
Speaker 1: it's just like, WHOA who wrote this exchange?
Speaker 3: I'm bombed.
Speaker 4: I have had that exact exchange with women friends like
Speaker 4: I look like shit, No, I look like shit.
Speaker 3: Well I'm gonna change my shirt. But this is children's media,
Speaker 3: you know. Don't do that. Don't do that.
Speaker 1: Do that.
Speaker 3: Ultimately, with Vamma.
Speaker 4: I appreciate that this is her story, Like her main
Speaker 4: story is challenging friends, being an asshole.
Speaker 3: The story is very clearly on her side.
Speaker 4: I think that there is a marked difference with how
Speaker 4: I don't think that well.
Speaker 3: Vilma is damseled at one point, but then.
Speaker 4: Is rescued by Daphne and like giving Daphne this big
Speaker 4: moment of agency and challenging how Shaggy viewed her to
Speaker 4: not be an active member of the group, and like
Speaker 4: we get moments with Daphnie and Shaggy where they're sort
Speaker 4: of presented as like the less effective members of the group,
Speaker 4: and Daphne is like.
Speaker 3: No, we have to do this.
Speaker 4: I think that the way that Vilma is quote unquote
Speaker 4: damseled but like I would say, more just captured generally
Speaker 4: that with the exception of that one, I think that
Speaker 4: like even towards the end, she and Fred are captured
Speaker 4: simultaneously and are equally active.
Speaker 3: In getting out of the sea situation.
Speaker 4: So to me, that's like not even really a damseling.
Speaker 4: That's just you know, that's just monsters when they're unleashed.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're going to be capturing people.
Speaker 4: One thing about monsters. Don't unleash them. You're to be
Speaker 4: in a.
Speaker 3: World of trouble. Yes, So those are our gals. Yea,
Speaker 3: let's talk about we.
Speaker 4: Hinted this, but they're the this movie and this franchise,
Speaker 4: and this movie does not move the needle on this
Speaker 4: really at all is a very very white franchise. And
Speaker 4: the way that this movie handles any even a hint
Speaker 4: at a non white, non American culture is handled I
Speaker 4: think pretty poorly, real.
Speaker 3: Real bad.
Speaker 1: So one example is the group of people who, first
Speaker 1: of all, they're it's very vague, but they seem to
Speaker 1: be coded as Polynesian in the most like generic stereotyped
Speaker 1: way possible.
Speaker 4: It's like almost impossib the comment on because you're like,
Speaker 4: I don't even know to the extent that the writer
Speaker 4: knows what they're even saying.
Speaker 1: Right, It's almost as if he just like took existing
Speaker 1: troupes and stereotypes, and.
Speaker 4: Which, to be fair, if I'm remembering correctly, are present
Speaker 4: in the Scooby universe. But it's two thousand and two,
Speaker 4: and you don't have to do that, even in the
Speaker 4: heat of Shrek.
Speaker 1: Don't even racist, Like come on, yes, yes, so there's
Speaker 1: so there's like this just this vague coding. The character
Speaker 1: of Nagoo, who by the way, is played by a
Speaker 1: white British actor named Stephen Grives or Grieves Okay. He's
Speaker 1: explaining that he and the other people are upset that
Speaker 1: Emil Mandavarius displaced ancient creatures. There's no mention of displace seeing,
Speaker 1: you know, people, which is the thing that happens when
Speaker 1: colonizers come in and steal land from indigenous people.
Speaker 4: Which I mean, and this feels like, especially in the
Speaker 4: cartoony universe of Scooby Doo, like an actual opportunity to
Speaker 4: comment on it, because you're theoretically you'd be displacing people
Speaker 4: to start a shitty theme park, like it is like
Speaker 4: a cartoonish situation and feels like a missed opportunity.
Speaker 1: Right, But instead they seem to be primarily upset that
Speaker 1: these ancient creatures which are also monsters. And there's references
Speaker 1: to like the island being this like thoroughfare to this
Speaker 1: like mystical realm, so there's all this like mysticism attributed
Speaker 1: to this indigenously coded people. There's also that luchador character
Speaker 1: named Zarkos, and it's like, Okay, why do these Polynesian
Speaker 1: coded people have a why is there like a cultural
Speaker 1: thing from Mexico?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: It is just like treating like this movie. And I
Speaker 4: think that the Scooby Doo universe in general, and a
Speaker 4: lot of media that dates especially because like this is
Speaker 4: it almost feels like if you want to make a lazy,
Speaker 4: racist writing choice, then for sure adapt a property that
Speaker 4: came out forty years ago.
Speaker 3: And then and it's like, oh.
Speaker 4: Well, that property is likely already deeply raisist in the
Speaker 4: way it's portrayed any other culture, and like it's it's
Speaker 4: really frustrating and like, yeah, just over the top cartoonish
Speaker 4: to the way that this movie and this franchise in
Speaker 4: general up until more recently treats every culture that is
Speaker 4: not white Midwestern Americans as a monolith.
Speaker 3: It's wild.
Speaker 1: And then there's also the representation of voodoo, where there's
Speaker 1: a character whose name we never learn, everyone just calls
Speaker 1: him Voodoo Man. He is played by an actor named
Speaker 1: miguel A Nunez Junior.
Speaker 3: We really hope he was paid well, because of course
Speaker 3: he was not for this.
Speaker 4: I know, I know, but I have to say it
Speaker 4: out loud and to keep optimism alive.
Speaker 1: Sure, we see him in I believe, two scenes. Both
Speaker 1: times he's trying to conduct again a quote unquote voodoo ritual,
Speaker 1: but again it's nothing that resembles actual practices of the
Speaker 1: Voodoo religion. We talked about this a lot on the
Speaker 1: Princess and the Frog episode, Yeah, where if you're interested
Speaker 1: to hear more detail, like.
Speaker 4: The full history of appropriation and that because that's also Yeah, in.
Speaker 3: The Princess and the Frog.
Speaker 4: It's appropriation within the context of New Orleans specifically, and
Speaker 4: I mean there's it's it's a very deep history.
Speaker 1: Yes, so in this movie it just just presented as
Speaker 1: like a gag. I don't even know. You could write
Speaker 1: that character out of the movie and it would not
Speaker 1: really make much of a difference. He's only there to
Speaker 1: suggest something about the castle. But like that could have
Speaker 1: just happened to different, like the whole thing, both the
Speaker 1: representation of voodoo of the indigenous coded people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I even hesitated to call it representation, like it's
Speaker 4: like it's just like saying shit in a way that's offensive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's Yeah, the presence of it, I guess
Speaker 1: is like it all reads as no thought or research
Speaker 1: went into anything. It's just relying, relying on and reinforcing
Speaker 1: existing stereotypes. The filmmakers, it just seems like they're like, well,
Speaker 1: who cares, only white people are going to see this anyway,
Speaker 1: and sit.
Speaker 4: Like that, you know, again, deeply untrue and uh yeah
Speaker 4: that's super I mean I I honestly, I'm gonna be
Speaker 4: honest and say I've seen a single damn Guardians of
Speaker 4: the Galaxy movie.
Speaker 3: And furthermore, I don't plan to.
Speaker 1: I bravely have seen all three.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess that's my question, not that it in
Speaker 4: any way excuses the way that he handles a.
Speaker 3: Series of cultures throughout this movie.
Speaker 4: Is this something that in James Gunn's body of work
Speaker 4: there's been movement on from what you've witnessed or I'm
Speaker 4: always curious in like how someone course corrects or doesn't
Speaker 4: throughout the course of their career.
Speaker 1: Right, I have not watched those movies through that lens.
Speaker 1: The main thing that comes to mind is zoeis sol Donna,
Speaker 1: another example of her, you know, not being allowed to
Speaker 1: show her actual skin and instead she's much like Shrek.
Speaker 1: She's green, he's green.
Speaker 3: She is green in those movies.
Speaker 4: And even I know that as someone who is really
Speaker 4: like kind of like absurdly avoided not those movies specifically,
Speaker 4: but just like.
Speaker 3: They make me tired.
Speaker 4: I got so depressed after I saw Doctor Strange in
Speaker 4: the Multiverse of Madness. I was like, wow, like a
Speaker 4: Sam Raimi superhero movie, We're so back, and then it
Speaker 4: just absolutely sucked so hard and I fell asleep, and
Speaker 4: then I was just like, I'm done with these motherfuckers.
Speaker 4: I'm done I'm not seeing them anymore. They don't even
Speaker 4: let Sam Raimi make a good one. He made Spider
Speaker 4: Man two. I know what kind of joke is this.
Speaker 3: I think that Alfred Molina could have played the Mister
Speaker 3: Bean character. Just for the record.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah, of course, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: But he was in Freedom this year, so he couldn't read.
Speaker 1: He was busy. I don't think I have anything else
Speaker 1: to talk about. Do you do you d o? O?
Speaker 4: Jamie Scooby, do you do you?
Speaker 3: No? I don't, I I uh, I do not.
Speaker 4: I think that that is all I have to say
Speaker 4: about Scooby Doo two thousand and two. But I will
Speaker 4: say that I I was pleasantly surprised by how much
Speaker 4: of this movie held up better than I thought it was.
Speaker 3: However, Caitlin Darante, does this movie pass the Bechdel test? Sorry?
Speaker 1: First of all, my name is Caitlin Dante.
Speaker 3: D o O huh.
Speaker 1: And secondly, I think it does right. I forgot to
Speaker 1: pay attention as per usual.
Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you were gonna say the rectal rest?
Speaker 3: Does this movie rest? Yes? It does? It does? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Between Velmont and Daphne.
Speaker 5: Uh, there there's a few ext I mean there's some
Speaker 5: exchanges that are about you.
Speaker 4: Know, characters I for example, Scooby Doo, but usually when
Speaker 4: they're talking they I think one stood out to me
Speaker 4: was Daphne protesting to Velma, characterizing her as helpless.
Speaker 3: But they also talk about ghosts.
Speaker 4: And monsters, who I think, in the context of this
Speaker 4: movie are presented as relatively genderless, and so would I
Speaker 4: would have that count Well we didn't. Oh, actually, really quick,
Speaker 4: we didn't talk about.
Speaker 3: Mary Jane, oh right.
Speaker 4: Who I think is Like it's frustrating because I think that,
Speaker 4: like Daphne and Velma.
Speaker 3: Are the best characterized of the four.
Speaker 4: I think that the women are given more precedents and
Speaker 4: more significant arc than the men of the story.
Speaker 3: That's rare, that's cool.
Speaker 4: And then we have Mary Jane, who I think is
Speaker 4: very much presented as a girlfriend character in a more
Speaker 4: kind of stock character way.
Speaker 3: We get depth to her in that she is possessed, but.
Speaker 4: I would ultimately say that she's a possessed girlfriend character
Speaker 4: and a waste and I don't like seeing people waste
Speaker 4: Isle of Fisher's time.
Speaker 3: I think is is what I believe to be true.
Speaker 3: So that's uh.
Speaker 4: But anyways, this movie does pass the rectal rest and
Speaker 4: the Bechfel test. But what about the most important metric
Speaker 4: of all time?
Speaker 1: If you're referring to the ripple rail.
Speaker 3: God, it sounds so gross when you when we scoobyfy
Speaker 3: any of the like vernacular associated with the show. Yes,
Speaker 3: the rectal test and the ripple rail.
Speaker 1: Oh aka the nipple scale, on which we rate the
Speaker 1: movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. Yeah, I'll give this movie, I guess,
Speaker 1: two nipples. I think that while it does rely on
Speaker 1: some pretty tropey ideas of female characters and like the
Speaker 1: way they are designed, the way they are presented feels
Speaker 1: rather tropy at times, rather ropy rather ropey. I do
Speaker 1: appreciate that they are given the bar is low here,
Speaker 1: but they're given narrative significance. They're given interesting arcs that
Speaker 1: for two thousand and two feel kind of feminist in
Speaker 1: a two thousand and two way, where one of them
Speaker 1: is tired of being damseled and so she takes matters
Speaker 1: into her own hands. She learns how to fight and
Speaker 1: defend herself, and then we see her doing that by
Speaker 1: the end of the movie.
Speaker 4: Yes, and it actually follows through, because I feel like
Speaker 4: so often in this era you would get the beginning
Speaker 4: of that message and it would bear out in no
Speaker 4: significant way. So I do think ups On actually having
Speaker 4: the vague feminist statement.
Speaker 6: Results in something wow, crumbs, crumbs. And also that scene
Speaker 6: where she fights is I mean, for me, it's it's
Speaker 6: a sleigh.
Speaker 3: It's great, it's good, it's it's fun.
Speaker 1: And speaking of sleigh, it's kind of giving Buffy the
Speaker 1: vampire sleigh.
Speaker 4: Or if we're saying this, the the vernacular is dead,
Speaker 4: and if it's if it's arrived at.
Speaker 3: Us, you know, it's well Jamie don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask if you want to come
Speaker 1: over and lamp with me later, something that hasn't been
Speaker 1: said in decades. And also I never even heard it,
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 4: I was like, it's very possible that that was like
Speaker 4: reaching New England parlance in my area. After we saw
Speaker 4: Napoleon Dynamite five years after it came out.
Speaker 3: Really don't know, we really don't know what what all
Speaker 3: that was.
Speaker 1: Then we should come for Napoleon Dynamite.
Speaker 3: But I said earlier, I never want to.
Speaker 1: Oh, sorry, okay, but I had to take it back.
Speaker 3: But why did I say that. I don't know. I
Speaker 3: think I just don't want to watch it.
Speaker 1: Oh well, our job, Jamie, is to watch every.
Speaker 3: Movie we wanted to watch. We wanted to watch Scoopy.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's true anyway, Okay, okay, So that is Daphne's storyline.
Speaker 1: Velma's storyline is being frustrated that a man is taking
Speaker 1: credit for her work, a very familiar thing and.
Speaker 3: We've both been there.
Speaker 1: We've both been there, and the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: the situation is that. So really it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a redemption for Fred, which is kind of annoying, yes,
Speaker 1: but it is Velma being acknowledged and recognized publicly, like
Speaker 1: in front of the press, on the news, on the news,
Speaker 1: for her work. And then he also like again the
Speaker 1: bar is so low here, but he gives her the
Speaker 1: space to like tell the story for herself and say, like,
Speaker 1: here's what happened. Although we cut away almost immediately, well
Speaker 1: it is presented, is like he lets her and you're like,
Speaker 1: he lets her do it exactly, So that's like but
Speaker 1: still still nothing not nothing. So there's those pretty cool
Speaker 1: things I would have liked to see. I think more
Speaker 1: of a relationship and friendship between Daphne and Velma. I
Speaker 1: would have liked to see Mary Jane be more of
Speaker 1: a realized character, you know, and also let Velma be gay.
Speaker 3: He tried, He tried.
Speaker 1: It was two thousand and two, so.
Speaker 3: I appreciate the attendant, right.
Speaker 1: Yes, So you know, maybe I'll bump it up to
Speaker 1: two and a half even and I'll give one to Elma,
Speaker 1: one to Daphne, and one to Ruby Ruby Rue or
Speaker 1: one half.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give two and a half to the version
Speaker 4: that or not I'm gonna give. I'm gonna give two
Speaker 4: and a half to the version that came out on three,
Speaker 4: to the version that James Gunn intended. I think that
Speaker 4: the the racism in this movie is pretty.
Speaker 3: Uh obviously fucked up. Not that there's any obvious way
Speaker 3: to do that, but it's pretty flagrant, I guess, is
Speaker 3: what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: The way that a number of cultures are not only
Speaker 4: turned into a monolith, but insulted on top of that,
Speaker 4: and on top of that, just like a lot of
Speaker 4: missed opportunities for inclusivity that the franchise takes. We know
Speaker 4: now with the benefit of time decades to course correct
Speaker 4: on I was interested to learn about the history of
Speaker 4: trying to include queer characters in this franchise and the
Speaker 4: very of the time way that that was prevented from happening.
Speaker 4: But I am you know, I'll hand it to James
Speaker 4: Gunn for really pushing for it and to the point
Speaker 4: where the actors on set were like.
Speaker 3: This is my character for two thousand and two. That
Speaker 3: is fairly impressive.
Speaker 4: And then to piggyback on what you were saying, I
Speaker 4: think that, yeah, the I wouldn't have expected of this
Speaker 4: era for the two characters of the five to be
Speaker 4: most focused on would be the two women, and that yes,
Speaker 4: at their core, they are kind of like simple feminist messages,
Speaker 4: but in the context of a kid's movie at this time,
Speaker 4: the fact that those messages are said and acted on
Speaker 4: within the story.
Speaker 3: I thought it worked.
Speaker 4: I thought it was good, and I wish they had kissed. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And so I'm gonna give Yeah two and a half,
Speaker 4: two or three, depending on which version of it we're
Speaker 4: talking about.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give one to dafh.
Speaker 4: These suitcases I'm gonna give only I'm not giving mine
Speaker 4: to people a Dafty suitcases at the airport. I'm giving
Speaker 4: one to Scooby's Grandma Drag and I'm giving the half to.
Speaker 3: The animatronics inside of Mister Bean.
Speaker 1: Wonderful.
Speaker 7: And there you go, you sickos, the hundreds and hundreds
Speaker 7: of people that said no, no, we want them to
Speaker 7: cover Scooby Doo, Well guess what we did.
Speaker 3: And we had a great time.
Speaker 1: I hope you're happy, had a blast.
Speaker 3: I had arrest with you raitlan Verante.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: And just a reminder, if you want to, you know,
Speaker 4: force us to do things that are ultimately fun for us,
Speaker 4: you can subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon right now
Speaker 4: five dollars a month to listen to two additional bonus
Speaker 4: episodes with just Caitlin and me every single month on
Speaker 4: a theme that I would say at least every other month.
Speaker 4: We give the Matreon community a chance to choose either
Speaker 4: what the theme is or we come up with the
Speaker 4: theme and you vote on the movies. Occasionally we will
Speaker 4: cancel democracy and be like it's the Pinocchio Wars and
Speaker 4: you have to deal with it. But it's just kind
Speaker 4: of a chaotic energy over there.
Speaker 3: We have fun over there, and if you like the
Speaker 3: vibe of.
Speaker 4: Today's episode, that's kind of what the vibe is like
Speaker 4: over on the Matreon so check it out.
Speaker 1: So true, and that's at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 3: You can go to the rectal Cast.
Speaker 4: Don't go, we don't We can't vouch for whatever is
Speaker 4: that pat patreon dot com slash the rectal Cast.
Speaker 1: But spin off podcast. No okay fine, so yes Patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slash Bechdel Cast. You can also go to
Speaker 1: te public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast for all
Speaker 1: of your merchandising needs, which are designed by Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 1: Sorry Raimi Rough.
Speaker 4: Yeah, tis the season to get your just to show
Speaker 4: where you stand on the political spectrum and get merch.
Speaker 3: That says I think beatles juice comes wet.
Speaker 4: Scabs and or dry scabs, and yeah, people love to
Speaker 4: wear the merchant public.
Speaker 3: Just kidding.
Speaker 4: I think the entirety of like it is, if you
Speaker 4: want a shirt to wear only inside your house, you
Speaker 4: gotta get the scabs merch. Anyways, we love you so
Speaker 4: much we're yanking the mask off your face at being like, wait,
Speaker 4: you're just you're just some guy?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I would have gotten no way with it
Speaker 1: if it weren't for you middling podcasters.
Speaker 4: Exactly whatever, exactly, And I think we really stuck the
Speaker 3: Landing and we're gonna bye, goodbye,