1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Captain Ron. 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 11 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond 12 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: Contact we explore the latest news and ufology, discuss some 13 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 3: of the classic cases, and bring you the latest information 14 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 3: from the newest cases as we talk with the top experts. 15 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 4: Welcome to be on Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and today 16 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 4: we have the pleasure of speaking with mister Ross. Colhart 17 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 4: Ross is an Australian based international investigative journalist, filmmaker and 18 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 4: author of six books. He also has over thirty five 19 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 4: years in the broadcast, television and newspaper journalism. He is 20 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 4: currently the senior special investigation correspondent for the News Nation 21 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 4: TV network, where he presents the hugely popular show Reality Check. 22 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 4: He also hosts a popular podcast with Bryce Abel called 23 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 4: need to Know, Hi Ross. How you doing good? 24 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 5: Ay Ron? How are you mate? 25 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 4: I am terrific. So you're going to be joining us 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 4: for the first time this year at Contact in the Desert. 27 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 4: We're really happy to have you. It's going to be great. 28 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm quite excited to come along. Actually, I'm a 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 5: friend with a whole lot of Australians who've made a 30 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 5: point of going to Contact but quite a few years, 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 5: and they went last year and I was gallivanting around 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 5: Arizona shooting a story from News Nation while they were 33 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 5: doing that last year. So I'm excited to be finally 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 5: coming to Contact in the Desert this year. 35 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 4: You're gonna love it. It's so much fun. And I 36 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 4: love that we have people literally from all over the world, 37 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 4: as you said, people coming from Australia. We had from Belgium. 38 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 4: Last year. It's really kind of cool. You know. I 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 4: want to share with you first off that you know, 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty three, our very first year of owning 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 4: the conference was the year you broke the David Grush story, 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 4: and in fact, that happened during our event. We literally 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 4: stopped our conference and all piled into one giant room 44 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 4: and watched it unfold together live. Danny Sheehan and Richard 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 4: Dolan went up and they shared their thoughts after you 46 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 4: guys were done. It was a great moment for us, 47 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 4: you know, another classic contact in the desert moment, and 48 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 4: you know that's become part of history for the disclosure efforts, 49 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 4: and it was fun being with that group right when 50 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 4: this unfolded. Looking back for you now two years later, 51 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 4: what was that moment like for you? Were you aware 52 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 4: of the magnitude of this. 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 5: Look, I guess I was. I mean, I you know, 54 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 5: it's very rare that you get somebody of Dave Grush's seniority, stature, 55 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 5: insider knowledge, security clearances coming up publicly and saying what 56 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 5: he said. I've been disappointed, though, to be honest with you, 57 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 5: at the lackluster response from Congress. And I know we 58 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 5: make a lot of excuses for congressional committees that they're 59 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 5: constrained by resources, but I think what we've hit is 60 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 5: inertia in the Congress, and that's why I'm actually quite 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 5: heartened that David is joining the staff of Representative Eric Berlson, 62 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 5: who's a particularly sharp Congressman on this UAP issue, and 63 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 5: who I know having David on board is going to 64 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 5: push things down the field a lot more than has 65 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 5: been happening to date. I think David would be the 66 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 5: first to admit privately and publicly that he's been disappointed 67 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 5: that they're hasn't been greater momentum inside the Congress since 68 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 5: his allegations, and particularly since the allegations were backed up 69 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 5: with the other interview I did with Jake Barber and 70 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 5: members of his team earlier this year. There's a kind 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 5: of a political inertia in Congress. And I don't think 72 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 5: it's a conspiracy, ron. I don't think somebody is pulling 73 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 5: the strings behind the scenes telling them not to pursue 74 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 5: this issue. I honestly think that we just haven't sounded 75 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 5: the plaxons loud enough for the people in Congress to 76 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 5: realize how significant an issue this is. 77 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 4: You know, to be honest, rass a few months ago, 78 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 4: up until a few months ago, I honest to God 79 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 4: thought Grush already spoke in a skiff because he had 80 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 4: talked about willing to do that, and it never happened, 81 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 4: and I heard that that's going to be happening hopefully 82 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 4: in April. 83 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 5: This has just so you know, he has given extraordinary 84 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 5: details in essentially a skiff facility to the Senate Intelligence 85 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 5: Committee and to the Senate Armed Services Committee and their 86 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 5: respective HAS committee. That evidence has been given, and more importantly, 87 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 5: it was also given to the Intelligence Community Inspector General, 88 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 5: a guy called Tom Monheim as well. People in Congress 89 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 5: cannot say they do not know what David Grush alleges. 90 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 5: He has told them where to go to find the 91 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 5: Legacy program, literally, what cave to look in, what code 92 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 5: name to look under, and what person's in charge of it. 93 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 5: He has given that detail, and that has been given 94 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 5: in a securest gift. The big problem is political will. 95 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 5: There was considerable inertia under the Democrats. Frankly, I think 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 5: the Biden administration was allowing itself to be overly influenced 97 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 5: by the intelligence and defense community, and there's far too 98 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 5: much influence through the National Security Council, which basically controls 99 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 5: the president's advice on national security issues. And I think 100 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 5: that the the big question at the moment is what's 101 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 5: going to happen with President Trump? Is he going to 102 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 5: show leadership, ethical, moral, political leadership on an issue that 103 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 5: I know many people in the Republican side and indeed 104 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 5: on the Democrat side in the huss and the Senate 105 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 5: want to see him show. They're just waiting to see 106 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 5: for the puffs of white smoke from the White House 107 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 5: Vatican to see whether or not this is going to 108 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 5: get the official approval. With everything else on his plate 109 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 5: at the moment, is the President going to buy a 110 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 5: fight with the Pentagon and the intelligence community on what 111 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 5: is the biggest secret of all? 112 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 4: You know? One of the problems people had with the 113 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 4: testimony of David Grush was all the good questions he 114 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 4: had to understandably say, I can't talk about that in 115 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 4: an open session. Is that frustrating to you when you're 116 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 4: interviewing these guys that they get close to something but 117 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 4: they can't tell you because it's classified. You get like 118 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 4: within inches of the answer you want. Is that tough? 119 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 5: Well? It is when I already know the answer, because 120 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 5: I'm already talking to people in the Legacy program who 121 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 5: actually told me about David Grush and told me that 122 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 5: there was this guy from the UAP task Force doing 123 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 5: in the investigation at the time, and they basically, if 124 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 5: you like, facilitated my knowledge of him and he of me. 125 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 5: And there is briefing me. So a lot of the 126 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 5: things David can't talk about I know, but he can't 127 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 5: reveal them because to do so would be a breach 128 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 5: of his national security host. And I know a lot 129 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 5: of people there's a lot of people who say to 130 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 5: me on UAP social media, they say, look, you know, 131 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 5: just get Grush to spill all you know, reveal all 132 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 5: you know you know, and the bottom line is people, 133 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 5: it's kind of an old fashioned idea. But in journalism, 134 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 5: professional journalism that I'm trained in, you do not act 135 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 5: irresponsibly by revealing things that might be national security sensitive. 136 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 5: We do have perhaps not a legal obligation perhaps, but 137 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 5: certainly an ethical obligation to ensure or that we don't 138 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 5: compromise the names and identities of ongoing intelligence operatives, people 139 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 5: who are putting their lives on the line to protect 140 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 5: this country and to make sure that people are safe 141 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 5: in their homes. It sounds old fashioned, but I do 142 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,559 Speaker 5: believe that there are technologies, that there are people, good 143 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 5: people in the national security and Defense and Intelligence establishment. 144 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 5: They would genuinely sit down, as they have done privately 145 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 5: with me, and make an argument that this is being 146 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 5: kept secret for a very good reason. And I don't 147 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 5: buy that reason. They believe that to reveal even the 148 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 5: existence of a non human intelligence engaging with this planet 149 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 5: would be a slippery slope, that to reveal that would 150 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 5: then compel revelations of what the United States has been 151 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 5: doing behind the scenes. The big nightmare, the big argument 152 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 5: that I get from people in the intelligence community is 153 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 5: that if we reveal this big secret, if we tell 154 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 5: the public that, yes, there is this secret program that 155 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 5: was authorized by a president seventy years ago, that to 156 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 5: do that would basically compromise that program and allow our 157 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 5: foreign adversaries some kind of strategic advantage. Their argument is 158 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 5: that doing that would essentially blow all that. I don't 159 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 5: buy that, but I can understand why there is that constraint. 160 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 5: And I guess when I listen to people complaining that 161 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 5: David can't spill his guts and tell all, I don't 162 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 5: think they understand how he operates within the national security constraints. 163 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 5: He'd be in jail immediately if he revealed the full 164 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 5: extent of what he knows, and I don't know. I 165 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 5: might be in jail, I'm not sure. But more importantly, 166 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 5: I feel an ethical obligation to make sure that I 167 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 5: protect what might be national security sensitive. These guys are 168 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 5: going to have to be squeezed very, very slowly into 169 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 5: a begrudging admission that yeah, sure, you know we have 170 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 5: been hiding this, but we've been doing it, we believe 171 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 5: for good reasons, and there have been crimes committed, by 172 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 5: the way, terrible crimes committed, including murder. I believe that 173 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 5: have tried to protect the secrecy of this whole program. 174 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 5: But generally, I really do want to emphasize I'm quite 175 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 5: struck by the number of people I've spoken to who 176 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 5: do passionately believe that there's a good reason for why 177 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 5: this legacy program is being kept secret, and they do 178 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 5: see us on the fringe, basically baying for disclosure, as 179 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 5: an annoying minority group who need to be put in 180 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 5: our place. But I don't think they quite understand the 181 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 5: notions of separation of powers and congressional oversight. And I 182 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 5: think eventually they will be dragged kicking and screaming to 183 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 5: the altar and there will be a happy marriage where 184 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 5: this all becomes very very public. 185 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 4: Gosh, I really hope that really does happen, and we're 186 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 4: all obviously hoping for that. When we come back, we're 187 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 4: going to talk more with Ross about how his views 188 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 4: on the UFO subject has changed over the years as 189 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 4: he gained more insights. You're listening to Beyond Contact on 190 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 4: the iHeart Radio Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network. 191 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron. We're 192 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 4: talking to Ross Colhart today. 193 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 5: Ross. 194 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 4: We think you're a perfect fit for Contact in the 195 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 4: Desert because we have a very rational approach to this subject, 196 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 4: and you seem very genuine in your approach. You really 197 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 4: began looking at this in earnest from a skeptical viewpoint, right. 198 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 5: Absolutely, I said hat. I finished working with sixty Minutes 199 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 5: Australia in twenty eighteen, and I was thinking to myself, 200 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 5: what's something that I can investigate that I can write 201 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 5: a book about and live in quiet, peaceful retirement in 202 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 5: the hills outside Sydney and just take my time writing 203 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 5: a gentle book that explodes a few myths. And I 204 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 5: like contrarian stories. I like finding stories that people accept 205 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 5: as a truism and then go in and find the 206 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 5: real story. And it always struck me this UFO stuff 207 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 5: was total bullshit, and I was going to come in 208 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 5: find out that this was indeed what I suspected there was, 209 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 5: which was an American black secret program with advanced aerospace technology, 210 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 5: and there was nothing to do with aliens. And there 211 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 5: was a moment where I reached out to somebody I'd 212 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 5: met in Afghanistan in an intelligence capacity who facilitated a 213 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 5: meeting for me with somebody in a George Town bar 214 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 5: from the intelligence community. They asked me what I was 215 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 5: interested in, and I said, look, I'm really interested in 216 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 5: writing a book about UFOs to prick the bubble, you know. 217 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 5: I mean, I suspect it's this Aurora, you know, this 218 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 5: spyplane that was referred to in defense literature right back 219 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 5: in an American aviation journal, right back in the eighties. 220 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 5: And the person sort of paused, looked across the bar 221 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 5: at me, and shook his head and basically said, no, Ross, 222 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 5: it's real. And my life hasn't been the same since. 223 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 5: And I basically said to him, what do you mean 224 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 5: it's real? And he said, there are aliens, you know, 225 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 5: this is real, And this was at the time when 226 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 5: Christopher Mellon was in the very early stages of making 227 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 5: a decision about what to do with the various gimbal 228 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 5: Tic Tac videos. It was very funny because at that 229 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 5: particular time of that conversation I was having, I was 230 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 5: still working for sixty Minutes Australia and I pitched a story. 231 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 5: I approached Chris Mellon because this source told me about Mellon, 232 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 5: and I asked him, could we do an interview with 233 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 5: you about this about you know, your push for transparency, 234 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 5: because I thought it was a cool story that there 235 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 5: was this guy who'd worked at the very top levels 236 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 5: of the Defense Department basically saying that, you know, he 237 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 5: thought there needed to be something disclosed and to do 238 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 5: the interview. And I remember feeling such a sense of 239 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 5: despondency because my executive producer at Australian sixty Minutes pulled 240 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 5: the pin on the story the night before I was 241 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 5: due to fly, and when I asked them why, they 242 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 5: basically said, look, I guess I'm really worried about embarrassment blowback. 243 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 5: There's so much stigma associated with this subject. I'm just 244 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 5: worried we're going to get laughed at. And I said, really, 245 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 5: I said, you understand that Chris Mellan, the person we're 246 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 5: going to interview, as a former deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, 247 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 5: he's a very senior person inside the Defense Department. And 248 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 5: she went, Nah, I'm sorry, we're not doing it. And 249 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 5: that's the stigma that we're up against. It's not a conspiracy, 250 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 5: it's not men in black going around telling jurnos that 251 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 5: they can't do the story. So yeah, I mean, I 252 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 5: did start out as a skeptic, and I found myself 253 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 5: slowly moving towards the realization that this was real. And 254 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 5: the big moment for me came when I met Nat Kobitz, 255 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 5: who at the time sadly was slowly dying of cancer 256 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 5: in his family home in Baltimore, and that I'd been 257 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 5: told about him. I'd actually also read about him under 258 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 5: a non diplum in a book written by I called 259 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 5: Gordon Novelle, which referred to a guy matching that's description 260 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 5: working in the Defense Department meeting with Gordon and discussing 261 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 5: certain aspects of the legacy UAP retrieval program. And so 262 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 5: I approached this guy not really expecting that he was 263 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 5: going to talk to me, and I used the strategy 264 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 5: I've used with everybody who's in the program, which is 265 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 5: writing an old fashioned letter in some cases, because I 266 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 5: was in the States a lot physically dropping those letters 267 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 5: at letterboxes of private homes of individuals I know or 268 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 5: suspect briefed into the program. And I had a lot 269 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 5: of success with people in the program reaching out to 270 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 5: me who respected, if you'll like, the spycraft that I 271 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 5: showed by not using electronic means to communicate, all of 272 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 5: which are monitored for people in the program. And one 273 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 5: of the people who reached out to me was nat Kovitz. 274 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 5: And I can reveal that because sadly, within six months 275 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 5: of me and him starting to talk, he passed away 276 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 5: from cancer. But literally in his last few days, he 277 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 5: was connecting me with people, enthusiastically putting me onto people, 278 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 5: and there was a moment where he flatly admitted to 279 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 5: me that the program was real, that he'd been briefed 280 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 5: into the fact that the United States had retrieved non 281 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 5: human craft, and he thought the public had a right 282 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 5: to know about it, and he couldn't as a scientist. 283 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 5: In fact, as the former chief geek, if you, like 284 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 5: Chief R and D guy for the US Navy, he 285 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 5: couldn't think of any solid reason for why it should 286 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 5: continue to be kept secret. I rather suspect that, like 287 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 5: a lot of secrets, this is one that's just stayed 288 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 5: secret because it is kind of the way things were 289 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 5: for the last sixty or seventy years. And I've had 290 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 5: the most extraordinary conversations with people in the program who 291 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 5: frankly admitted to me that they just don't think there's 292 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 5: any good reason anymore for the continued secrecy. But it's 293 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 5: quite clear the people in charge, because they're worried about blowback, 294 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 5: they're worried about criminal prosecution, they're worried about oversight investigations 295 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 5: and congressional fury. They're just keeping it secret for as 296 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 5: long as they can. 297 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 4: So is your best evidence these guys that come out 298 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 4: to you and you feel like they're credible, therefore this 299 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 4: is real? Or do you have other evidence that you 300 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 4: feel make this compelling to you to be real? 301 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 5: Well, obviously, as a journalist you balance witness evidence. Like 302 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 5: I'm a trained attorney, so I've worked as a lawyer myself, 303 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 5: and you get taught how to investigate and assess a 304 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 5: witness and test their credibility, and you use cross examination 305 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 5: skills evidence assessment to try and measure who they are, 306 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 5: what they're saying is accurate, and you try and trip 307 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 5: them up, you try and find holes in their story. 308 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 5: And numerous times in the course of my research in 309 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 5: the last five to seven years, I've found people who 310 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 5: I think alias they're either self a grandising Walter Mitty 311 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 5: types or were still their intelligence community moles, people who 312 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 5: are planted there to try and place false information with 313 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 5: somebody like myself. I'm certainly working very hard to get 314 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 5: quality video and sense or evidence, but the primary way 315 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 5: in which I elicit evidence is by talking to direct witnesses, 316 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 5: most of whom are still talking to me anonymously. There's 317 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 5: just no way a lot of these people will feel 318 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 5: comfortable in the current environment. I strongly suspect at the moment, 319 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 5: unless there's a greater public push for disclosure and transparency, 320 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 5: this secret will stay buried for a lot longer. 321 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 4: That's where I set You were talking about how the 322 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 4: rest of the world outside of our bubble really isn't 323 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 4: you know into this? Do you think that it was 324 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 4: a really well designed disinformation type campaign in the beginning. 325 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 4: Let's see in the nineteen forty seven when Roswell happened, 326 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 4: in all of these sightings were taking place. Do you 327 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,479 Speaker 4: think that they just did a great job of making 328 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 4: this taboo subject and that the person's crazy and that's 329 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 4: stuck and it's lasted seventy years, eighty years. 330 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think Hollywood's played a role in this. 331 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 5: I mean, it's quite astonishing. There's a great book called 332 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 5: Silver Sources, which talks about the connections between those trying 333 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 5: to suppress this secret and Hollywood and Bryce Sable, who 334 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 5: I work with on Need to Know. He tells a 335 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 5: great story about how he and his colleague writing darks Guys, 336 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 5: the predecessor to X Files, a fantastic sci fi dark 337 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 5: noir story of series about aliens invading the planet. Basically, 338 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 5: they are approached by people from Navy Intelligence offering to 339 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 5: provide them with authentic information that would help them tell 340 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 5: their story more accurately. And I do think that kind 341 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 5: of seeding, if you like, has been going on in 342 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 5: Hollywood for much of the last sixty seventy years. There's 343 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 5: been a threat narrative pushed, which is that aliens are 344 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 5: something to be feared, which is why we need our 345 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 5: brave military to defend ourselves against it. And more importantly, 346 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 5: an idea pushed that you know there are these nhi 347 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 5: they're real, and I think that's a slow softening up. 348 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 5: I do think it's a deliberate policy by people in 349 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 5: power to begin preparing the public, because the other excuse 350 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 5: I get thrown most of the time by a lot 351 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 5: of people. They think you the public will freak if 352 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 5: you're told there's a non human intelligence. They think you'll 353 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 5: just run around waving your hands in the air, and 354 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 5: that society will break down, religion will break down. And 355 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 5: I think that's such a pedestrian, tired nineteen fifties, nineteen 356 00:20:58,960 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 5: sixties idea. 357 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 4: I think it feels okay. I feel the world has 358 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 4: changed enough that it wouldn't be that way. I agree 359 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 4: with you. 360 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 5: I think they can tell you. I mean, I've got kids, 361 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 5: and I think both of them would embrace the idea 362 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 5: of a non human intelligence. And frankly, amongst young people 363 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 5: at the moment, the young millennials and X, I get 364 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 5: the feeling there's almost a sense of hopelessness about how 365 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 5: the world is lurching towards environmental and political, socioeconomic catastrophe, wars, famine, 366 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 5: and nothing would be more unifying for more humanity than 367 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 5: the realization that we're not alone in the universe and 368 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 5: that there is indeed a non human intelligence there's actually 369 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 5: been engaging with this planet for many, many moons. 370 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 4: When we come back, we're going to talk more with 371 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 4: Ross about his interview with Jake Barber, the US Air 372 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 4: Force whistle blower who claims to have retrieved NHI craft 373 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 4: for the military. You're listening to be on Contact on 374 00:21:52,440 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 4: the iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. 375 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron. We're 376 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 4: speaking with Ross Coulhart. Ross. The next watershed level interview 377 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 4: in this area of disclosure was another one done by yourself, 378 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 4: and it was the one you did with Jake Barber recently. 379 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 4: What were your impressions of him and his account? 380 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 5: Well, as you've probably divined, I was talking to mister 381 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 5: Barber a long time before he finally made the decision 382 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 5: to go public, while he was still working for the 383 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 5: intelligence agency that he was working for. And one of 384 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 5: the reasons that I am very persuaded that he's absolutely authentic, 385 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 5: absolutely credible, that he's not some deep state attempt to 386 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 5: drew a soft disclosure and control the narrative, which is 387 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 5: what a lot of people are alleging is because I've 388 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 5: basically been watching from the sidelines as he's been going 389 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 5: through the iterative process of slowly making that decision to 390 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 5: go public, and by golly, it's been hard for it. 391 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 5: He's a genuinely good human being, and he'd come to 392 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 5: the realization that morally, ethically, what he was seeing inside 393 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 5: the program was no longer tenable for him, and he 394 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 5: wanted to do the right thing and assist in public disclosure. 395 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 5: And I really admire him for it. And one of 396 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 5: the things that I can understand why people are skeptical 397 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 5: on social media. There's been a blowback from a small 398 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 5: but very vocal minority of people on social media who 399 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 5: like to assume this kind of sagacious, all knowing preciens. 400 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, this guy's obviously affront you know, he's clearly CIA. 401 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 5: It's all a way of trying to control the narrative, 402 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 5: and that's complete bullshit as far as I can see. 403 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 5: I mean, I truly I've investigated every aspect of Jake 404 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 5: Barber's service history. One of the difficulties with him being 405 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 5: what's called a knock, a non official cover operative, is 406 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 5: that when your knocks, you are literally sanitized. Your military 407 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 5: record is cleaned of any references that might allow you 408 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 5: to be identified as a covert operator. So his Tier 409 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 5: IE training, which is beyond any doubt whatsoever. I've spoken 410 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 5: to people who worked with him and served with him, 411 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 5: and as Tier one training. I've spoken to people who 412 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 5: verified his service when he was operating undercover, and those 413 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 5: people have more than substantiated to me that Jake was 414 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 5: very clearly a very highly trained operative within the US 415 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 5: defense intelligence community, and that he was doing a service 416 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 5: for his country well before he got involved in the program, 417 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 5: and that the program for him, it was a slow 418 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 5: realization that what he was being asked to retrieve on 419 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 5: the range, as he calls it, was not It's interesting 420 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 5: because what I really admire about him now is he's 421 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 5: basically made the decision to try and verify outside of 422 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 5: government what he knows has been going on inside government 423 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 5: in collusion covertly with private aerospace, and that's what sky 424 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 5: Watchers all of that. Probably by the time this podcast 425 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 5: comes out, you'll be seeing a new interview with me 426 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 5: and Jake Barber and people from Skywatcher, where we reveal 427 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 5: some quite extraordinary breakthroughs that they've made in the last 428 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 5: few months since I first ed his story. I can 429 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 5: tell you it's dramatic. There's going to be some really 430 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 5: interesting revelations coming out in the next few Even then. 431 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 4: Your last interviewer, there were some fascinating things that came out, 432 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 4: and one of the important interesting aspects of that was sionics. 433 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 4: He mentioned sianics in there, which is kind of a 434 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 4: new term to a lot of us. And now there's 435 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 4: this huge interest in the topic. And you know the 436 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 4: research of doctor Danne Poll and the documentarian Kay Dickens. 437 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 4: They've brought a lot of attention to the telepathy tapes. 438 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on her work in that whole aspect? 439 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 5: Oh, I like you, I mean, I'm thrilled by the 440 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 5: telepathy tapes. I take my hat off to Ky Dickens 441 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 5: and doctor Diane Hennessy Powell for the work that they've 442 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 5: been doing. There's the usual blowback, Oh my god, the 443 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 5: predictable blowback from stuffy, stentorian blowhards in modern psychology and psychiatry, 444 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 5: who stick their heads in the sand and deny all. 445 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 5: There's this resistance to the very possibility of psychic phenomena, 446 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 5: And as people watching my show Reality Check would see, 447 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 5: well before I did an interview with Diane Hennessy Powell, 448 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 5: i'd interviewed Russell tag from the Gate Program, the Stargate program, 449 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 5: who was one of the principal physicists scientists involved in 450 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 5: the study by the CIA of PSI phenomena right back 451 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 5: in the nineteen seventies with hal put Off, and one 452 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 5: of the most blibly often reported. So the media are 453 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 5: so lazy, they really constantly report this blame assertion that 454 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 5: the CIA's shut down the whole Stargate program because it 455 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 5: wasn't proven to be effective, and that's just a load 456 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 5: of cobblers. It's just not true. I've spoken to people 457 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 5: on the program, including Russell, but also people who've spoken 458 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 5: to me privately off the record, who may soon become public, 459 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 5: and they've confirmed to me that not only did the 460 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 5: CIA verify the use of remote viewing, the use of 461 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 5: the capacity to in some way remotely travel with your 462 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 5: mind and see locations, places, events in different space and time, 463 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 5: they verified that perhaps not to absolute scientific certainty, but 464 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 5: certainly I will tell you ron to the extent that 465 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 5: there is still, despite Pentagon denials, an active SI program 466 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 5: ongoing in the Pentagon today. It never stopped, and the public, 467 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 5: as usual, particularly the legacy lane stream media, have allowed 468 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 5: themselves to be misled and have the wall pulled over 469 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 5: their eyes. And it's funny because I came to this 470 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 5: realization myself that how adept the United States is, and 471 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 5: I take my health to them. They've been able to 472 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 5: conceal this program so well for the last half a century. 473 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 5: They've been left unhindered. In the same way that the 474 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 5: UAP subject has been so stigmatized and treated with taboo 475 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 5: and steered away from by the mainstream media. There's been 476 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 5: the same kind of manipulation with the study of psionics 477 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 5: or what you'll soon start hearing soon this new term 478 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 5: neuro meditative interaction. I prefer psionics myself, and it's going 479 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 5: to be very interesting because I am in no doubt 480 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 5: whatsoever about the efficacy and the awesome implications of what 481 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 5: Kaideker and doctor Diane Hennessy Powell have discovered with the 482 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 5: telepathy tapes. But there's a bullshit line from an organization 483 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 5: in the United States which is trying to debunk this 484 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 5: whole story by basically saying that it's just a clever 485 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 5: fraud by the parents, that what they're doing is they're 486 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 5: prompting their kids with visual and verbal cues when they're 487 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 5: doing this iPad assisted reading, and it means they haven't 488 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 5: done their homework, because as Kai, Dickens and Diane have 489 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 5: made very very clear in the research that they've done, 490 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 5: as you've pointed out, there are instances where there's no 491 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 5: longer this assisted iPad verbal visual capacity, where it's done 492 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 5: completely blind, completely controlled, there's no possibility of any kind 493 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 5: of prompting, and the expert debunkers just choose to ignore that. 494 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 5: I think we're in a period at the moment rom 495 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 5: where materialist science, I think is locked into the the 496 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 5: so called scientific hypothesis, you know, the idea that nothing 497 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 5: is it can't be proven using you know, the established 498 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 5: accepted scientific method, then it's not real. And one of 499 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 5: the problems is some of the most interesting things at 500 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 5: the moment that are indubitably things that have come to 501 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 5: the attention of intelligence and defense officials over the decades, 502 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 5: things like telepathy, things like anomalous phenomena, and modern science 503 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 5: I think has until very recently stuck its head in 504 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 5: the sand on this issue and gone, well, it can't be, 505 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 5: therefore it isn't It doesn't fit into our materialist paradigm 506 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 5: using the scientific method, you know, we can't repeat it. 507 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 5: Therefore it's not true. And it's really interesting because I 508 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 5: think there's a growing impatience in academia, in good science 509 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 5: about the way that that scientific method is constraining an 510 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 5: ability to even begin to engage with subjects like psionics, telepathy, 511 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 5: remote viewing, and the ideas behind anomalist phenomena. What if 512 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 5: humans have a capacity, through our pinealed lands and microtubules 513 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 5: in our brain to in some way connect with something external. 514 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 4: And or a collective unconscious. We need to take a break. Ross. 515 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 4: Let's pick it up on the other side of this, 516 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 4: and we're going to talk more about psionics and these 517 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 4: developments with Ross when we return on Beyond Contact on 518 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM's paranormal podcast network. 519 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact talking to Rass Caulhart 520 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 4: about some incredibly fascinating things about consciousness and psionics. Did 521 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 4: you want to see something about that RASP. 522 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 5: One of the things with science is that if you 523 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 5: don't look, you don't find art. And there's so much 524 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 5: a convention in modern science, a stigma and a taboo 525 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,239 Speaker 5: that's attached to the subject matter of anomalous phenomena, and 526 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 5: telepathy and psionics fall into that category that in many ways, 527 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 5: if you don't do the research, then you won't find 528 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 5: And the thing that really fascinates me is anyone can 529 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 5: go online and read the CIA Library archives of the 530 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 5: Stargate program and grill Flame and all of the other 531 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 5: programs that were operated by the United States that have 532 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 5: been declassified since, and they show that the United States 533 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 5: spent an enormous amount of time and money investigating psychic phenomena. 534 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 5: And they wouldn't have done that for nothing. A lot 535 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 5: of people say they would doing it because the Russians 536 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 5: were doing it, and it was just a Cold War 537 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 5: competition and they were just desperate to make sure that 538 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 5: they could rule out the possibility that there was anything 539 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 5: to this nonsense pigh phenomena. I don't think that's the 540 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 5: case at all. In fact, there is verified literature from 541 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 5: the Russian side of science that shows that the Russians 542 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 5: do take sigh phenomena very seriously and always have done. 543 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 5: And what's really going on behind the scenes, ron is 544 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 5: that there is indeed a battle for control of this 545 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 5: new science of psionics neuromeditative interaction that we've discovered, that 546 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 5: the craft that have been capable of well, that have 547 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 5: been brought down, in some cases offensively by the United 548 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 5: States using weaponry, that when these craft have been opened, 549 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 5: when we've actually had a look inside them, they don't 550 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 5: conform to any known craft that we would think of. 551 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 5: There's not a steering wheel, there's not a button you 552 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 5: can push to fly. The craft operated neuromeditatively psionically, and 553 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 5: you have to use your mind and learn how to 554 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 5: use your mind in order to be able to apply 555 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 5: that technology. And as a result of that, there's been 556 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 5: a looking back in human history at people who have 557 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 5: these perceived spiritual gifts. And interestingly enough, you have to 558 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 5: go back to the Vedic traditions, you know, the traditions 559 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 5: of often Third world countries where people have been studying 560 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 5: these spiritual ideas for thousands and thousands of years. And 561 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 5: I don't think it's any coincidence at all that great 562 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 5: texts like the Marberrata and the Vedic texts write down 563 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 5: to the Sumerians. There's references to some of these ideas, 564 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 5: and humans, I think have lost capacities. We've forgotten skills 565 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 5: that we have that are perhaps innate to all humans 566 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 5: and that may very well include psionic abilities. 567 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 4: Isn't an interesting Why do you think that we academia, 568 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 4: not just the government. I understand why they want to 569 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 4: keep that private. They don't want the other people to know. 570 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 4: But why is academia always so resistant to all of 571 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 4: these things throughout history? There was thirty five years ago 572 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 4: there was a belief that there were no other exo planets. 573 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 4: One hundred years ago there was a belief that our 574 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 4: little tiny galaxy was the entirety of the universe. And 575 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 4: then we got powerful telescope so that we could see 576 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 4: there were galaxies beyond ours. It's so glacial and so 577 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 4: difficult for them to be open to these ideas. Why 578 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 4: do you think that is? 579 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 5: I think one of the things that happens in media 580 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 5: is what happens in establishment science, which is there is 581 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 5: a peck mentality. It's easier to go with the crowd 582 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 5: than it is to go against the flow. Which is 583 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 5: kind of why. To be honest, Ron, I've always been 584 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 5: drawn to contrarian stories. I've always been drawn to, particularly 585 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 5: scientific stories, where there is quote, an accepted paradigm, an 586 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 5: accepted truth that we're all told is the reality which 587 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 5: we will basically only report on, and if you try 588 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 5: and depart from that paradigm, you get smacked. And at 589 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 5: the moment you know, there's been a huge battle going 590 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 5: on inside modern physics the arguments about quantum physics, and 591 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 5: there are some in physics, Eric Weinstein, who I know 592 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 5: and respect enormously as one of them, who think that 593 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 5: string theory in physics is all a bit of a 594 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 5: fraud designed by people in the program, perhaps to try 595 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 5: and mislead people from an understanding of quantum physics which 596 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 5: has already been achieved by those in the black somewhere 597 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 5: in these dark programs in the United States. And if 598 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 5: you look around, one of the things that I find 599 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 5: that is quite depressing is how easily people are led. 600 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 5: What I think is at the heart of it is 601 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 5: that humans find it very hard to go against the grain. 602 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 5: When society is basically pushing a particular direction. It takes 603 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 5: an act of courage to go in the other direction. 604 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 5: And I think that's what's happening at the moment with 605 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 5: both the UAP issue and also with these broader issues 606 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 5: that are starting to emerge of an understanding of human consciousness. 607 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 5: And ironically, ron the more I get into this subject, 608 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 5: the more spiritual I get. I'm not going to tell 609 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 5: you I've become a Christian or a deep believer, but 610 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 5: what it makes me realize is that some of the 611 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 5: essential messages that lie behind our religions are religious ideas 612 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 5: may in fact have kernels of truth in them, and 613 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 5: that if we basically stop for a moment and as 614 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 5: scientists think about the implications of what was being written 615 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,760 Speaker 5: thousands of years ago in vadic texts, and reassess our history, 616 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 5: particularly also our ancient history, look again at those ancient 617 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 5: ruins and question the accepted archaeology about the age of 618 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 5: the prayer Omids or the age of Matchu Picu, and 619 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 5: then go back and think, is there an alternative explanation 620 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 5: for human history? That's where I think things will start 621 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 5: getting interesting. But to do to do that, though, and 622 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 5: I'm not saying you should just WILLI Nelly embrace all 623 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 5: of these kirky ideas and just go with them. But 624 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 5: one of the problems I have journalistically is I've seen 625 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 5: it time and time again in journalism. I've been involved 626 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 5: in investigating murders. And there was a case I was 627 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 5: involved in here in Australia where a whole lot of 628 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 5: judges were murdered. Thirty years after all these judges were murdered, 629 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 5: the crime was still unsolved. There was a suspect, but 630 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 5: as far as the police were concerned, there was no 631 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 5: evidence to support a case against that suspect. And that 632 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 5: was glibly reported by the media for years. You know 633 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 5: that the case had gone nowhere and it was nothing. 634 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 5: And what we did was we went back and we 635 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 5: reinvestigated the case. We obtained what are called the police 636 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 5: running sheets and a piece of evidence that should have 637 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 5: been analyzed and investigated but wasn't key DNA evidence. And 638 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 5: when we alerted the police about that DNA evidence and 639 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 5: brought it to their attention, they went back into the archives, 640 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 5: discovered that bit of DNA evidence and found a clincher 641 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 5: piece of evidence that led to the conviction of a 642 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 5: mass murderer. 643 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 4: Wow. 644 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 5: And the interesting thing is we copped abuse from the 645 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 5: police for even going down that path. They really resented 646 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 5: us going in and digging the network that I was 647 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 5: working for. They made it very difficult for our police 648 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 5: reporters at the time. There was a sense that you're 649 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 5: going against the grain here, you're going against against the 650 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 5: accepted culture by questioning what we've done in the past. 651 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 5: And frankly, I think the best journalism, the best storytelling, 652 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 5: comes when you do that, when you go against the 653 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 5: grain and you start questioning accepted truths, it is more 654 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 5: of it. Well, it's funny. My friend Leslie Kane, who 655 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 5: wrote a fantastic book on you of that was part 656 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 5: of the inspiration for me to get into this subject. 657 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 5: She I could never quite understand why when I started 658 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 5: writing my UFO book, Leslie had gone into the subject 659 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 5: of life after death. I thought she'd gone back shit crazy. 660 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 5: And then I realized as I was getting into the subject, 661 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 5: I too was finding myself drawn to the question of 662 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:25,240 Speaker 5: life after death because I just wonder whether the UAP mystery, 663 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,720 Speaker 5: what lies behind it, isn't some kind of uber consciousness 664 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 5: that he's essentially us after we die, and that. 665 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 4: Where the streamer says that there's a there's a tie, 666 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 4: he's the most known abductee that we have, and he 667 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 4: says there's a connection between the visitors and the afterlife 668 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 4: and Rass one quick thing I want to say to you. 669 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 4: Don't you think that the two questions for humanity one 670 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 4: hundred thousand years ago and you and I talking today 671 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 4: number one what happens when we die? And number two? 672 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 4: Are we alone? Absolutely shouldn't we all be talking about that. 673 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 5: The two most fundamental questions? And yet there is such 674 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 5: dogmatic resistance from establishment science and so much of establishment 675 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 5: media to even asking that question. 676 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 4: And absolutely incredible. I just done, really really weird. I agree. 677 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 4: I feel like that should be what we talk about 678 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 4: as humanity each and every night on the News Ross, 679 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 4: We're out of time. I cannot thank you enough for 680 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 4: coming on and taking the time to talk to us. 681 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 4: All of that information is really fascinating and we're going 682 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 4: to have to watch for your new piece with Jake Barber. 683 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 4: Thanks again for coming on, Bud Real Pleasure. You can 684 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 4: find Ross on News Nation on his show Reality Check. 685 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 4: His podcast is Need to Know, which he will host 686 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 4: with Bryce Zabel and the two of them are actually 687 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 4: going to be recording their podcast live in front of 688 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 4: an audience on stage at Contact in the Desert and 689 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 4: there's going to be an opportunity to ask these guys 690 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 4: some questions, and that alone is reason to go to 691 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 4: Contact in the Desert this year. You can find me 692 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,399 Speaker 4: on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron. Stay 693 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 4: connected by bicking out Contact Inthedesert dot com. Stay open 694 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,439 Speaker 4: minded and rational as we explore the unknown right here 695 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. 696 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,919 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 697 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,959 Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 698 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 699 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com.