WEBVTT - S8 Ep6 | Old-School Greenwashing 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:11.440 Nice earth. 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:12.320 Does that mean more close? 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:18.560 Yeah? Yeah, oh good. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.079 First time I ever heard anything about Guyana it was 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:27.640 years ago in a pirate bar, Yes, a pirate bar 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.040 in San Francisco, drinking aged rum for the first time, 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.440 while a friend of mine told me about this new 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.879 gig he'd gotten promoting. A small South American country has 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:44.120 an ecotourism destination. Conservation efforts and ecotourism have been a 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.240 big thing in Guyana about as long as they've been 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.800 a thing, period. But now the country is known not 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:55.080 only for its pristine rainforest and hundreds of species of 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.880 native birds, but also for its burgeoning oil industry. I 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.160 wanted to know whether the ecotourism folks were annoyed by 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.480 the oil folks, whether they worried that having to fly 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:13.000 into an oil boomtown might dampen the ecotourism experience for people, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:18.520 or whether they could just sort of ignore it all. 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.880 So we planned a trip to Kiman House, or as 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.240 Americans might say, at Cayman House. Coimon House is an 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.640 eco lodge and research center in the heart of Guyana's 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.640 Rupununi region. Unlike the rest of the interior of the country, 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:37.040 which is mountains and forest. The Rupununi is savannah. There 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.679 are cowboys there and wide open spaces, and it's way 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.280 closer to Brazil than it is to Georgetown. I was 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.360 excited to explore a different part of the country, and 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.760 then I messed up my flight plans and our producer 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.840 Sarah had to go alone, first on a tiny plane 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.760 to a city called Letham, and then on a two 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.760 hour drive in a pickup truck over dirt roads. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.359 Hi. Hi, I'm Dilian, I'm Sarah Nice, Sarah Lay. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.359 Would you welcome to you? Carrion thim In House. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:11.880 Thank you. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.840 Kimon House is primarily staffed by members of various local 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:22.720 indigenous tribes, which is quite common with ecotourism destinations in Guyana. 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.400 The country has provided a model for ecotourism that can 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:31.800 offer indigenous locals and income and visitors in immersive experience. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.280 Sometimes eco lodges double as research stations, and that's definitely 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:40.560 true of Kiman House where they research yes kim in, 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.519 specifically black kime in. If you've never seen one before. 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.560 They're the same family as alligators. A lot of kimen 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.600 are small, but the black kime in can be up 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:56.120 to fourteen feet long, so a little bit terrifying. The 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.919 boat a small metal one with a motor attached and 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.720 some benches to sit on heads out. At sundown, the 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.960 guy brings snacks and of course Guyana's famous El Dorado 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:11.080 aged rum. It's humid and sweaty, and there are tons 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.800 of mosquitoes, but serious says, it's so picturesque and gorgeous 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.600 just you and all these animals around you, that none 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.840 of that really matters, okay. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.840 And then as nightfall we will come shaning. 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:26.880 If he has a bright art, he will come shaning 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.840 looking for bars or animal whatsoever we can see on. 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:33.839 Can I have some water before we get on the boat. 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:38.480 Oh yes, if you want to have your urination, I'm sorry, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:39.839 you can use the bushit. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.840 Okay, No, I'm actually okay, but thank you. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.640 And it's not just time. And you'll see from the boat, 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.000 Guyana's forests and rivers are teeming with life. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:51.960 Right here. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:56.200 It's just the monkeys, the birds, the lucky enough you 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.960 see tupy swimming across or coffee barus and otters are. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:02.040 Come on here. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.200 When they do spot a kimen, they pull them up 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.880 to tag or check them, and sometimes they take guests 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.520 along for the ride. 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:20.040 J Yeah, they say, what is that? 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:22.520 That's how we get gen Along the way. 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.200 Guides like this one, who referred to himself interchangeably as 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.880 Josie and jose Id, birds by their call and tell 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:34.560 visitors all about the local area and customs. The founders 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.080 of Kiman House are an American couple who lived in 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.479 Guyana for a number of years because one of them 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.919 was a researcher studying you guessed it, the Black Kymen. 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.320 They developed relationships with community members and created a library 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.200 for local school children. They even started to look after 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.520 the area's stray dogs, who now called Kimen House their 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.760 home and give the staff some extra mouths to feed. 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.040 Guyana has about a dozen of these sorts of eco 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.200 lodges all across the country, and people come from all 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.520 over the world to visit them. In twenty nineteen, Guyana 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:12.919 was named the planet's top eco tourism destination at ITB Berlin, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.719 the largest tourism trade show in the world. Twenty nineteen. 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.000 That's the same year the country shipped its first barrel 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:27.440 of oil. That honor of top ecotourism destination is one 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.400 that Guyana had been working really hard to win for 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.640 close to twenty years. So I thought, surely there would 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.600 be some concerns about how becoming one of the world's 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:40.479 largest oil producers could impact that. But it turned out 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:47.640 tho opposie is true. That's our story today. I'm Ami 0:05:47.680 --> 0:06:20.560 Westervelt and this is light, sweet crude. Guyana has had 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:25.760 a well deserved global reputation for conservation for a long time. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.200 In two thousand and nine, it was one of the 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.440 very first participants in a UN program called RED which 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:37.960 stands for Reducing emissions from deforestation and forest degradation. Basically, 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.880 it lets high emitting global North countries pay low emitting 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:46.280 global South countries to preserve their forests. So Norway, an 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.760 oil rich country, committed to pay two hundred and fifty 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.839 million dollars to Guyana provided that Guyana could show certain 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:58.520 conservation metrics along the way. That deal was signed by 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:03.200 former President Brought jug Daeo, Yes, the same jug Dao 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:07.919 that's Vice president today and the government's biggest supporter of 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.680 the oil industry. The payments from the Norway deal were 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.760 supposed to fund low carbon development. The idea was that 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.600 the money could help Guyana develop, but do so in 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.800 a way that would limit greenhouse gas emissions. It was 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.640 heralded as this great example of how we could value 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:29.160 ecological services, things like forest full of trees that capture 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:34.360 and store carbon dioxide, for example, or the preservation of biodiversity, 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:39.400 but it still had the whiff of colonialism about it. Norway, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.120 a country that is tremendously wealthy from oil with a 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:48.040 trillion dollars Sovereign Wealth Fund, telling Guyana how to preserve biodiversity. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:54.120 Okay, so you were saying you were going to get 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.880 X dollars if you maintain deforestation rate that point zero 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.360 five percent fifty million over five years. 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.640 Dane Gobin is the CEO of the IBACRAMA International Center 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:11.080 for Rainforest Conservation and Development, the crown jewel of Guyana's 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.040 conservation and ecotourism efforts. 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.880 But at the same time, what you're saying is that 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:24.800 you have to satisfy other criteria to get the money. Yeah, 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.440 so you're going to the shop to buy upound the butter, 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:35.559 and you pay for the butler, and the guy is saying, 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.240 so before I give you the butterer, you need to 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.000 tell me if you're taking care of your children, if 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:41.760 you wash your. 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:49.520 Car more than a decade before the Norway deal was signed. 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.360 Guyana created a three hundred and seventy one thousand hector 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.040 reserve called Uacrama in the middle of what's called the 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.920 Guyana Shield, an area with tremendous by diversity to the 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:06.680 northwest the Amazon Rainforest. The government established the Ebucroma International 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.760 Center there to research and pilot sustainable forestry and agriculture projects, 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.880 and they opened the Ewacroma River Lodge as one of 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.920 the country's first eco tourism destinations. Ebukroma has had loads 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.120 of international donors over the years. Its current patron is 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:25.040 King Charles. 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.600 And I'm saying, Hondan, the butter is a dollar, I'm 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:35.319 paying you a dollar. What's this side of stuff? So 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.600 it's it's a challenge because the dough in a country 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.200 doing it, it's taxpayers money, so they have to do 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.400 it on the best practice. Quote governor's anti corruption targets 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:51.160 should be met and sun it's a donation, right, and 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.080 that's a challenge. So government is Saint Hondan, you're paying 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.040 for the forest. You've agreed that this is the rate 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.960 of defire station. We've maintained it. What's this about other stuff? Now, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.960 this is a business transaction. The people who want this 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.120 have what they call steel ropes attached. It's not just 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.720 the protective forests. And it's actually condescending because especially on 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.280 the basis that you have destroyed your forest, but you're 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:23.079 actually so you're giving me money to almost tell the 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.520 breed to the air that you breathe, but you're telling 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:27.520 us how to spend it. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.280 Gobin says that he's been on the other side of 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.239 this sort of situation too, with payments to local indigenous 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.000 groups around you, Acrama. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.959 We have had that at the level of the communities 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.760 and let me, I can understand from their perspective. So 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:48.000 when the communities aren't Timber and money's from us, we're 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.600 worried about how this money is going to be spent. 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.440 Will they go open a round shop? What will they do? So, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.360 I mean, we'd like to see a school build, we'd 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:04.800 like to see scholarships, but this is their wood. We're 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:09.440 paying them for deer wood. We can't tell them. So 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.040 what we did with the communities, and it's a model, 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.800 and I don't think it will work at them bilaterals, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.520 but we work with them. And he says, look, you 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.920 set up a committee to look at how the money 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:20.559 will be spent. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.920 So in a way, there is no clean money. It's 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:28.360 always tied to something, which begs the question where do 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.120 you draw the line. For Gobin, there's little difference between 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:37.800 taking money from Norway or taking money from say Axon. Today, 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.440 the company has donated seven million dollars to EWACRAMA through 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:43.320 its foundation. 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.520 Guyana is part of a very important landscape known as 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.480 the Guyana Shield. It's actually one of the last remaining 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.440 intact force ecosystems. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:54.559 In the world. 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.359 This space offers a great opportunity for conservation. 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.760 Excellent's CEE may not have visited Euacrama yet, but it's 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.560 marketing team sure has. They've been busy making videos there 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:11.120 to promote the company's commitment to conservation in Guyana. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.800 We really need to nurture it and ensure that we 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.800 have this re future generations to come, even while we 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.080 use it in a wise way. 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.600 Gobin is well aware of the optics and how people 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:27.000 might be irged by a conservation organization receiving millions of 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.880 dollars in donations from an oil company. 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.520 And yes, the obvious question is, you know, should we 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.320 be taking money from the oil company. And my question 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:43.080 to that is okay, oil will be there. We continue 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.440 to say, you know, if you read the papers, if 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.960 you read the chitro, you'll see, you know, exon stripping Ayana. 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.080 The question is if we've accepted that they're stripping for 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:59.400 a moment, they're giving you something back. It could be more, 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.839 but they're giving you something back. And if they didn't 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.160 give you, they would get knocked for not giving something 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.400 back when they're giving No, the question is should you 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:16.760 be accepting we are not advocacy. We're not advocates. Don't 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.119 we run a rainforest. We don't get involved in politics. 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.000 But we have to take care of all people. And 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.920 if somebody is saying, here's a grant, you can do 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.679 capacity building and training, you can immove the livelhoods of Guyanese. 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.640 You could do all kinds of things, why should we 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:38.000 say no. 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.880 Dan's not stupid. Dan just doesn't tell. As long as 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:42.760 there's money. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:48.320 Yeah, remember Melinda Jenkie, the lawyer trying to stop the 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.360 offshore drilling project in court. For Jinkie, there is no 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.000 way to separate the money from its corporate influence. There 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.200 are always strings attached. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.559 I find a lot of people in this conservation sector 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:07.440 in this country. It's not that interested in conservation, but 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:12.520 they are very interested in being given grants to do 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:18.400 what they term conservation work, which generally conserves nothing. 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:20.680 How does it concern nothing? 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:26.480 What do they do? Wf were They did the thing 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:32.000 off Surguyana and came back in rapturous about the wonderful 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.400 marine wildlife we had and that it's possible to do 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.040 oil and protect marine wildlife. I'm not entirely sure what 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.240 planet we can do that on, but it's not this one. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.000 Pri But Exxon is dropping more than just money. 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.440 They are allowed to dump four thousand barrels of sewage 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.200 into the ocean every day. So four thousand barrels of 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.360 sewage every day adds up to, over the life of 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.040 the project, one point two billion gallons of sewage in 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.560 our pristine ocean. There's one point two billion bottles of 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.160 oil in that particular field, so we're getting roughly again 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.560 the ship for every bottel of oil they take out. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:16.240 Exxon's money has those same steel ropes attached as other 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.760 international donors, but instead of requiring good governance and a 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:26.160 crackdown on political corruption, they're asking Euochrama staff to appear 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:30.480 in marketing videos and say that Exon is supporting important 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:36.960 conservation efforts. Some might say they want to greenwash. 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.640 This is not a personal benefit. This is a benefit 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.480 to Iwokrama, it's community partners and to the nation of Guyana. 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.600 And as I said, we could probably get some more. 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:50.840 But at the end of the day, you know what 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.560 the recognition is. I mean, it's something that I don't 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.720 think people on average realize. Exxon Mobile bet five or 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:06.120 billion dollars without knowing what was there. Shell left. Shell 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.040 was partner, and they left a few years after because 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:09.920 there was nothing. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.760 Bobin is referring to the original contract that Exon had 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.480 with Guyana, which was signed in nineteen ninety nine. At 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.200 the time, Exon's exploration partner was Shell, but after the 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.920 two started exploring an earnest in two thousand and eight 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.480 and didn't find anything for a few years, Shell left 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:28.400 that partnership. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:33.760 Now shouldn't they be given some kind of what recognition 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:38.480 for that investment in Guyana? Because if there was nothing there, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.360 they would have walked away with a five billion dollar loss. 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.440 They stuck it out. And I'm not advocating for them. 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.880 I have no interest. Actually, I would not like to 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.120 see ail out there. But the reality is you look 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.200 at the way healthcare system, look at ouray education system. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.080 Guyanese want to go to Harvard guy and wanted to 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:05.919 go with the year better school's bet the healthcare, So 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:06.880 who's paying for that? 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.159 We heard this from a lot of people in the 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:15.240 conservation space, this idea that oil is obviously not great 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.880 for the environment, but what's done is done, and they 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.960 may as well use the oil money to further conservation efforts. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.760 I really wanted to hear from the one person everyone 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.800 I spoke with in Guyana told me to talk to 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:38.600 about conservation. Hi, I'm sorry, I'm early, so okay jet. 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.879 He reminds me of my not and that our June 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:55.359 runs the Guyana Marine Conservation Society. She shared some similarly 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:59.400 contradictory views while we were walking around her neighborhood near 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.000 the coast in Georgetown. 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:09.280 Oleander gardens are oleander plants, the orleander flowers, and this 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.240 area is called oleander gardens. But because of all the 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.200 old homes being bought out and demolished and replaced by 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:25.600 these high rising apartments, we now have chamberget Xon as 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.760 our neighbors. So I always tell people you are now 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:33.600 coming into Oily and the Gardens, which is you know, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.480 a bastardization of or beautiful oleander flower. So welcome to 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:39.680 Oily and the Gardens. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.920 But well, our June seems not so thrilled the idea 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.360 that her neighborhood has been turned into condos central for 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.600 foreign oil execs. She's also happy that Guyanese property owners 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.840 and developers are benefiting from that change. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.119 Now these are three. Each apartment has its own to 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:00.520 the bath. 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:01.359 Wow. 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.320 So there was those a couple of five that was 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:09.400 in the US for a month. Wow. And they're all 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.680 Guyanese business people. 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.280 And then renting out mostly to Yeah, it's all oil 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:18.720 and gas. 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:19.800 But then why was saying that they. 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.840 Carved back in terms of local content. They gave a 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:29.199 Guyanese opportunities in the real estate market, you know. So 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:34.000 this is Tracy's ten apartments there and another five year 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:36.680 all of them are already rented out. 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:37.720 Wow. 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.399 And I went to school with her in Barbados. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.440 So lots of young people like our age as well, 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:52.720 are getting opportunities to become you know, food caterers, service providers, 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:54.879 logistics providers. 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.320 Right because they have to hire they have our June 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.400 says when she first heard Axon was coming to Guyana, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:03.680 she was worried. 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.120 I didn't know much about Exxon other than when there 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.119 was that New Yorker article that basically was, you know, 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:18.920 exposing their culture and reality of funding climate change denial 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:23.520 denial campaigns. That was the first time Exon came in 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:30.679 my radar. And and and to me, if you're your 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:36.119 you know, top tier of your company is doing something 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.560 as as insidious as that it was, it was terrible. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.199 It was terrible for me because if you're, you know, 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:45.960 funding climate change denial campaigns, how could you be considered 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:50.680 environmentally responsible? So having all of the technology is one thing, 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.480 but that technology is useless if your culture is one 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.160 of of de sit. 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.800 She's also very clear eyed about the climate tax Guyana 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.680 is already experiencing and the role that fossil fuels play 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.080 and exacerbating those impacts. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.159 And appeared that's supposed to be a tri season. You're 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:16.480 still having torrential downpour. You're having short torrential downport. I 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:20.440 will flood your city and in minutes. You know, all 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.160 of that, you're seeing that that that that was never 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.040 what our weather conditioned to be like in the past 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:31.040 and shell each way I worked, we had in in 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.320 cases parts of the beach we were losing like ninety 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.720 feet of beach per month. That is sort of unprecedented 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:46.159 erosion in terms of the rapidity of that as actually 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:50.280 as a result of that that that effect the community 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:55.879 of two hundred and eighty members of them had to 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.600 relocate inland to higher ground. So that was what in 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:03.400 my and I always refer to as my first experience of 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:05.080 climate change refugees. 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.080 But she doesn't necessarily see any of that as a 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.840 reason not to drill for oil offshore. She believes Exon 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.359 can and will do better in Guyana with respect to 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.200 environmental protections. 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.600 So for sure, I think Exxon has an opportunity of goal, 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:30.920 an opportunity to do what is right by the environment, 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.360 and if they don't, well, you know, we'll call them out. 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.640 And I think as well to the government also has 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.960 to hold it Exon accomfortable because Exxon gets away with 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.840 slackness if it's allowed by the administration. 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.200 And she sees whatever environmental degradation oil drilling might bring 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:56.040 as an acceptable trade off for money that could lift 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:00.159 Guyanese out of poverty. Although she was eventually sent to 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:03.359 boarding school and taught to fly planes by her father. 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.360 Our June grew up in the indigenous village that her 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:09.800 mother was from, and she saw there up close the 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:13.560 poverty that a lot of Guyanese citizens still deal with today. 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:19.760 Guana it was a very poor country. And growing up 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:25.120 with my Amoronnian grandmother in a river in community where 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.639 there was a lot of poverty as well, including workin' 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:30.760 on shell Beach where you know people that eat sea 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:35.840 dartlet meat and eggs exists. Seeing poverty was a part 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:36.680 of my reality. 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:41.680 Shell Beach became the first place Our June's organization worked 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.199 to conserve. Today she works with local residents there to 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.200 protect the turtles that they once had to eat to survive. 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:52.000 But she's also seen poverty force young people in the 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:56.040 area into sex work just to access daily necessities. 0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:03.080 Seeing young girls who had no economic opportunities and would 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:07.120 have to have survival sex to be able to buy 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:10.479 an underwear or buy a bra, or to eat as 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:14.879 part of my reality. So in terms of seeing, you know, 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:20.280 this country being blessed with so much natural resources, including 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:29.320 the recently discovered and produce oil, it made me. It 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:32.800 makes me realize that. Look, if you have, you know, 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:38.120 abundant natural sources, and you could use those natural resources 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:42.600 in a very responsible manner to help to help lift 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:48.639 your people out of poverty. That's what I support. 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:52.480 It makes a lot of sense. The looming question, of course, 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:55.800 is whether it will actually lift people out of poverty, 0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:59.440 and whether it will do so before it destroys any 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:02.840 of the other natural resources that Guyanese people depend on. 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.800 That's where Janki, the attorney we heard from before, thinks 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:10.520 a lot of Guyanese people are engaging in magical thinking. 0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:19.520 The global Norse has basically broken the global climate system 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:23.360 as a result of greenhouse gas pollution, and I think 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:27.359 we should stop talking about emissions and call it what 0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:32.880 it is, which is pollution from fossil fuels. It is 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:37.680 incredibly stupid for anybody to say, well, because you did 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:41.480 something bad and broke it, we now have a right 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:46.399 to do something bad and break it even further. The 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:49.359 global climate system is precisely what it says, it's a 0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:55.520 global climate system. The idea that more money is going 0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:57.520 to make things better again it. 0:25:57.359 --> 0:25:58.760 Is also false. 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:03.200 Gen is not a poor country, gain is an extremely 0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:07.120 rich country. It's the people who are poor, and they're 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:10.000 poor because it's the same set of people that have 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:13.639 governed this country and run it into the ground. So 0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:17.600 the idea that more money will make any difference is 0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:21.800 not based on any evidence whatsoever. All the evidence points 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:26.920 to the government, whichever government is, whichever party is in power, 0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:31.400 it doesn't really matter. What it points to is squandering 0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:37.119 of national income. And I think it's disingenuous to be 0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:40.440 claiming to be a conservation organization and at the same 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:44.480 time trying to make allowances for the fossil fuel sector, 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:48.880 which is destroying the planet. Now, a marine conservation society 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:53.200 supposedly cares about turtles. They actually started off as a 0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:55.359 gan a marine turtle conservation society. 0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:58.359 That's the organization that on our June runs. 0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:01.600