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Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?
Speaker 1: You're not interested in art?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Look, we're going to do this thing. We're going to
Speaker 1: have a conversation.
Speaker 3: From Chicago. This is film Spotting.
Speaker 1: I'm Madam Kempinar and I'm Josh Larson.
Speaker 4: I just thought she was the prettiest thing that I'd
Speaker 4: ever seen, and she was there with somebody else. She
Speaker 4: was very popular back then. She had dozens of boyfriends, hundreds, hundreds. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I did not know that.
Speaker 3: Cookie Fleck, Deliadets, Kate McCallister and Moira Rose. We lost
Speaker 3: the one and only Catherine O'Hara last month.
Speaker 1: This week we paid tribute with our top five Catherine
Speaker 1: O'Hara characters that more ahead on film Spotty.
Speaker 4: Sally is.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Film Spotting. Josh favorite Paul McCartney and Wings
Speaker 3: song go.
Speaker 1: Uh Lifeline, Can I call my dad? You can? I
Speaker 1: don't know if I should be insulted by that or not.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess I wasn't alive really when Wings
Speaker 3: was in its full glory, but not even a maybe
Speaker 3: I'm amazed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, okay, I can hear that one in my head.
Speaker 3: Yeah, great favorite, we were okay, Yeah, it's a great tune.
Speaker 3: We were planning to include my conversation with director Morgan
Speaker 3: Neville about his new film Paul McCartney Man on the
Speaker 3: Run in this show. Neville an Oscar winner, of course,
Speaker 3: for the twenty thirteen documentary Twenty Feet from Stardom. He
Speaker 3: also made the mister Rogers doc Won't You Be My Name?
Speaker 3: And twenty twenty four is piece by piece the lego
Speaker 3: fied bio doc about Froh Williams. But we decided to
Speaker 3: drop it into the film spotting Feed earlier this week
Speaker 3: as a standalone episode, so by the time people are
Speaker 3: hearing this, Josh, hopefully they have already heard that what
Speaker 3: I thought was a fun conversation with Morgan Neville, even
Speaker 3: if it really was just the two of us, it
Speaker 3: turns out two bass players geeking out about how good
Speaker 3: Paul McCartney is.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the real reason is there's a rumor
Speaker 1: that we have a singing Masacre theater coming up later
Speaker 1: in this show, and we just didn't want, we didn't want,
Speaker 1: like a discussion about good legendary music to share any
Speaker 1: space with what is about to go down later.
Speaker 3: Okay, did producer Sam sneak this by? Because I wasn't
Speaker 3: aware I missed this. I should read the dot It's.
Speaker 1: Going to be rough. It's gonna be rough. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: buckle up.
Speaker 3: That conversation with morganev was recorded as a video conversation
Speaker 3: like this very episode we are taping right now. Film
Speaker 3: Spotting is available as a video podcast. You can watch
Speaker 3: that interview. You can watch this show on YouTube. For
Speaker 3: a link to video episodes, go to YouTube YouTube dot
Speaker 3: com slash film spotting or go to film spotting dot
Speaker 3: net slash episodes. Time now to talk Catherine O'Hara, and
Speaker 3: I know that we are despite the sad occasion, we
Speaker 3: are excited to talk about Catherine O'Hara, to share these characters,
Speaker 3: to share these scenes, and I don't think it's going
Speaker 3: to be a surprise, despite the great many of characters
Speaker 3: she's played in a great many wonderful films. We are
Speaker 3: going to have a fair amount of overlap here, and
Speaker 3: I think we probably have a fair amount of overlap
Speaker 3: with most people listening to this show, Josh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there are a couple of iconic characters
Speaker 1: who come to mind when you hear Katherine O'Hara, and
Speaker 1: we're going to give those roles plenty of time. I
Speaker 1: am surprised the way things ultimately shook out, though Adam
Speaker 1: is a little more outlier. Talk to use the language
Speaker 1: we apply to our top ten show and those titles
Speaker 1: at the end of the year, the best of the
Speaker 1: year that maybe only one panelist picks. I think we
Speaker 1: each maybe ended up with two outliers. But yeah, to
Speaker 1: your point, that means there are three consensus, and more tellingly,
Speaker 1: I think the three consensus we all have ranked within
Speaker 1: the top three. So it seemed like something that might
Speaker 1: be more more fitting for a general conversation and then
Speaker 1: we can talk about where we actually placed these characters.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Catherine O'Hara, definitely you have one or two
Speaker 1: faces that come to mind right away, for sure. How
Speaker 1: do you want to get started?
Speaker 5: Go?
Speaker 1: I want to share something on just to cover us
Speaker 1: a little bit because and ask a more general question
Speaker 1: about her. Basically, when this news came down, it was
Speaker 1: a shock, as we said when we first talked about
Speaker 1: it afterwards on the show, given how young she was,
Speaker 1: and felt like a loss. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say out of proportion. Definitely not out of
Speaker 1: proportion with the talent, but maybe out of proportion with
Speaker 1: the stature in the sense that she wasn't really a
Speaker 1: star in the traditional meaning right where she had all
Speaker 1: of these films built around her. She never anchored a
Speaker 1: movie exactly on her own. So some of the legends
Speaker 1: we've been talking about in the last year who have
Speaker 1: passed away, she was in a different stratosphere. Yet for
Speaker 1: a lot of us, I think it felt like as
Speaker 1: monumental as a loss, just sort of emotionally and instinctively,
Speaker 1: it was like, ooh, one of those And so I
Speaker 1: was curious, you know, what was that? And I sent
Speaker 1: out an email asking this when I was asking for
Speaker 1: people for their favorite characters, and I got this back
Speaker 1: from Jacob Allen, which I wanted to share because I
Speaker 1: think he's onto something that also speaks for the nineties kids.
Speaker 1: Because this is an Ohara character I don't think either
Speaker 1: of us are going to include. But Jacob shared this
Speaker 1: about why losing her felt so monumental. I wonder if
Speaker 1: because so many of our earliest associations with her is
Speaker 1: as the devoted mother in Home Alone, she feels like
Speaker 1: the motherly matron saint to the film community. It sounds
Speaker 1: odd to say, but I feel so comforted by her
Speaker 1: screen presence, just as the presence of my own bomb
Speaker 1: puts me at ease. That's my favorite performance of hers
Speaker 1: has to be that of Gail in After Hours. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we might hear more about Gail in just
Speaker 1: a bit. But thanks for that, Jacob. That gets us
Speaker 1: to nod to Home Alone as well. But I do
Speaker 1: think raw emotionally speaking for a certain generation, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: he's onto something here. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I know there are Home Alone fans out there. I
Speaker 3: know you're not one of those, Josh, and I really
Speaker 3: have no. I don't have strong feelings about the film
Speaker 3: one way or the other. It's definitely not going to
Speaker 3: come up on this list, and it's interesting to think
Speaker 3: that maybe in the recesses of my brain, it's entirely
Speaker 3: possible that the first time I really thought about Catherine
Speaker 3: O'Hara on screen, like processed who she was, really saw
Speaker 3: that face, it might have been home alone. Now I
Speaker 3: had seen Beetlejuice before that, so ald in that way instead.
Speaker 3: But yes, it's possible that, certainly for a lot of
Speaker 3: people listening it was home alone. And so there is
Speaker 3: something comforting about thinking about her as Kate McAllister, and
Speaker 3: and in your subconscious you will always think of her
Speaker 3: in that way. I do like that sentiment as well,
Speaker 3: you know, for me, as I was especially going back
Speaker 3: through these characters and considering different people and watching different scenes,
Speaker 3: I was thinking about a line from a character played
Speaker 3: by another person who we very tragically lost this year,
Speaker 3: who we haven't paid tribute to yet, but I believe
Speaker 3: we have plans to later this year, and that's Rob Reiner.
Speaker 3: He plays a character in the film Bullets Over Broadway
Speaker 3: who famously, or maybe even infamously says, an artist creates
Speaker 3: his own moral universe. Again, watching all of these scenes,
Speaker 3: I feel like with every character Catherine O'Hara plays, she
Speaker 3: is consistently creating her own moral universe, and not just
Speaker 3: moral universe, just her own universe, she is operating. Her
Speaker 3: characters are always operating by their own set of principles, moral, ethical,
Speaker 3: you know, you name it, any framework for the world.
Speaker 3: They will never be denied. They are completely individual and idiosyncratic,
Speaker 3: and I think that's what makes them, part of what
Speaker 3: makes them so memorable.
Speaker 1: Ye, their own reality is living comfortably within their own
Speaker 1: reality and wondering what the rest of us are doing.
Speaker 3: Exactly right, So get us started. You can name your
Speaker 3: number five. We'll see where, we'll see where we land.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got an outlier here at number five, which
Speaker 1: is a vocal performance. It's Judith from Where the Wild
Speaker 1: Things Are. And I did want to nod to O'Hara's
Speaker 1: voice work. She's done more recently the Wild Robot or
Speaker 1: something like Elemental years earlier, franken WEENI. She's done a
Speaker 1: lot of voice work, and to me, maybe the most
Speaker 1: interesting vocal performance she gave us in Spike Jones's Where
Speaker 1: the Wild Things Are. This is two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: and Judith is a particularly prickly wild thing. For those
Speaker 1: who haven't seen this, it's a live action adaptation of
Speaker 1: the Maurice Sundeck children's book about a kid who runs
Speaker 1: away to a land of furry monsters. And it's just
Speaker 1: one of our most unique integration of imagination, live action
Speaker 1: and special effects. So you have Max Records, young actor
Speaker 1: playing Max, this main character, and then the wild things
Speaker 1: are played by performers in these giant monster suits. Some
Speaker 1: sort of digital manipulation is used for their facial expressions.
Speaker 1: It's all completely seamless. If you haven't seen it, it works.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it really does work. The suit performer.
Speaker 1: On that note, I should credit for Judith. The O'Hara
Speaker 1: character is Nick Farnell, and then of course she is
Speaker 1: the voice and it's an interesting performance from her because
Speaker 1: she doesn't just go for laughs, though there are those.
Speaker 1: There's a real threat to Judith. It looks like this
Speaker 1: three horned monster, and she's always dancing on the line
Speaker 1: between teasing Max and then being serious about eating him,
Speaker 1: which is a continual danger in the film. Just beyond
Speaker 1: O'Hara though, where the Wild a stellar example a voice
Speaker 1: casting for talent not name recognition. This is where producers
Speaker 1: always go wrong when they go for the star. Sometimes
Speaker 1: that works Tom Hanks brilliant voice actor. More often than
Speaker 1: not it doesn't. So here you have you're going for
Speaker 1: the voice talent. You're going for James Gandolfini, Chris Cooper,
Speaker 1: Forrest Whittaker, Paul Dano, they all voice other wild Things.
Speaker 1: O'Hara is, you know, one of the standouts among them.
Speaker 1: So yeah, throwing that into the mix. Officially my number five.
Speaker 1: But starting things off with Judith from Where the Wild
Speaker 1: Things Are.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen that since it was reviewed very positively
Speaker 3: here on Film Spotting when it came out. But I
Speaker 3: love what you said there about how it's funny and
Speaker 3: she gets the laughs, but there's also that sense of danger.
Speaker 3: There's a threat there because those same and I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna say layers. I think it's more aligne. She's consistently
Speaker 3: able to walk with her characters. And the reason why
Speaker 3: I'm going to say that line versus layers may go
Speaker 3: back to something I think you alluded to earlier, Josh,
Speaker 3: which is not that in any of these roles that
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about her. In any of these movies,
Speaker 3: she's not playing a significant role, obviously, but she usually
Speaker 3: is part of an ensemble or she is a supporting
Speaker 3: character as opposed to the lead in the film, so
Speaker 3: she doesn't necessarily get a chance to show all of
Speaker 3: these layers over the course of a huge narrative character arc. Right,
Speaker 3: she has to come in and deliver in a brief
Speaker 3: scene sometimes or an extended scene, but she has to
Speaker 3: walk various lines. She has to give us different different shades,
Speaker 3: and her ability to do that is something It's going
Speaker 3: to come up again and again in my picks, and
Speaker 3: we're going to start with number five. I already mentioned
Speaker 3: this movie, and I was sure when we did this.
Speaker 3: I love I mean, your picks are great, so I
Speaker 3: don't begrudge you, and I'm glad I get to include
Speaker 3: it now as my outlier. But I know that even
Speaker 3: though I really like this film, you like it even more.
Speaker 3: I know that, even though I really like this director,
Speaker 3: you like this director even more. I am going with
Speaker 3: Delia Deets from Beetlejuice. And it's been ages, Josh since
Speaker 3: since I've seen this movie, certainly in full. I have
Speaker 3: seen a few scenes from it here and there when
Speaker 3: it's popped on TV, and it usually is fun to watch.
Speaker 3: And I enjoyed her to some extent in Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice
Speaker 3: as well. I'm gonna give credit to O'Hara for that,
Speaker 3: even if I really didn't like that movie. But what
Speaker 3: struck me rewatching scenes for this top five, and it
Speaker 3: really shouldn't have surprised me, is not how good O'Hara
Speaker 3: is at making Delia the vampy, kind of evil step
Speaker 3: mom character, this unhinged, self absorbed artist that we get
Speaker 3: to laugh at. Of course those elements are there. Maybe
Speaker 3: I did assume, Josh because it's been so long that
Speaker 3: it was a little bit more while hilarious, a little
Speaker 3: bit more one note like that, and it's so not right.
Speaker 3: You get that in moments that really deliver, for instance,
Speaker 3: the incredible side eye then turn of the head that
Speaker 3: she gives Charles, her husband, when they first show up
Speaker 3: at the house and you know she's already looking to
Speaker 3: redo all of the decorating, and he says to her
Speaker 3: that she'll finally be able to cook a decent meal
Speaker 3: in the kitchen. That look, no words, The look says
Speaker 3: everything that she gives him is so perfect and watching
Speaker 3: it is it that he insults.
Speaker 1: Her cooking that makes her so mad?
Speaker 3: Or is it that he insults her identity as a
Speaker 3: brilliant artist by reducing her to a mere housewife or
Speaker 3: is it both right? It doesn't really matter. But you
Speaker 3: know she's just staring daggers at him. But what O'Hara
Speaker 3: gives Delia in this scene, but also in every scene,
Speaker 3: without a hint of sentimentality, is real human emotion. She
Speaker 3: is as insecure and needy as she is abrasive.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: In this same scene, when they move in, when she
Speaker 3: has she has to, she is so compelled to tell
Speaker 3: the mover who she feels like. She has to remind
Speaker 3: him to be careful with this sculpture that it's her sculpture,
Speaker 3: not hers, like she bought it. She owns it, Josh hers,
Speaker 3: she made it, careful.
Speaker 1: That's my sculpture, and I don't mean my's and I
Speaker 1: bought it.
Speaker 2: I mean I made it.
Speaker 3: It's my sculpture.
Speaker 2: Put it on the table.
Speaker 3: When she sees that he's just giving her a blank
Speaker 3: stare back that's completely utterly meaningless to him, she then
Speaker 3: she then becomes in front of him a completely normal person.
Speaker 3: The pretense completely fades because she realizes that she's powerless
Speaker 3: in front of a guy like this who does not care.
Speaker 3: That does not impress him one bit. And you see
Speaker 3: the facade completely crumble in that moment, and so watching
Speaker 3: some scenes form Beald Juice again, you realize that it's
Speaker 3: not O'Hara playing Deliadiads. It's O'Hara playing Deliadiads, who is
Speaker 3: playing the best slash version of herself.
Speaker 1: The entire time.
Speaker 3: There's that sort of meta layer to that character. And
Speaker 3: she doesn't, of course, like any good comedic performer, which
Speaker 3: she doesn't play the comedy. She finds the humor in
Speaker 3: the heart of the character.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this really should have been my outlier pick to
Speaker 1: a degree, and it was on my rough draft. It
Speaker 1: was heard the news and started thinking about this. I
Speaker 1: think it is definitely more layered as you gust. It's
Speaker 1: for me, would have been a surefire thing if we
Speaker 1: had done O'Hara scenes, because she kicks off the Deo
Speaker 1: banana boat musical sequence. Yes, and that is just a
Speaker 1: tour de force of comedy just going for you know,
Speaker 1: this experience of being musically possessed but also snapping in
Speaker 1: and out of it. It's you know, it's like Delia
Speaker 1: doesn't just suddenly get possessed and starts singing. It's like
Speaker 1: it happens and then she comes out and recognizes asks
Speaker 1: what's happening to me? And then goes back in and
Speaker 1: the deafness O'Hara has in that sequence, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: is among her best scenes for sure. It's interesting what
Speaker 1: you say. I think we're going to come across this
Speaker 1: repeatedly in that they're our roles she's been given, which
Speaker 1: basically have one clear comic signifier to them. And I
Speaker 1: think you could say this to Delia too. And then
Speaker 1: the magic is what O'Hara weaves and rings into making
Speaker 1: this character even more than that, as you say, without
Speaker 1: necessarily the most screen time among the ensembles, she still
Speaker 1: manages to pull it off. Yeah, my other outlier I
Speaker 1: actually have ranked quite Let's let's be anire. I could
Speaker 1: do that, or I could just go to number four.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I like that. No, let's let's go with
Speaker 3: your other outlier.
Speaker 1: Why not? Okay, let's hit our outliers first, and I
Speaker 1: put Moira Rose from Shit's Creek at number two. I know,
Speaker 1: I know, breaking some rules here. This is a television
Speaker 1: it's television performance. We're gonna listeners will expose themselves. Who
Speaker 1: are the comrade Josh's or Adams right in in a fury.
Speaker 1: H huh I could. I had to do it. I
Speaker 1: just had to do it because this is especially the
Speaker 1: sentimentality of doing this list now after her passing, and
Speaker 1: the joy to know that near the end of her
Speaker 1: career she was given an opportunity like this, a multi
Speaker 1: season opportunity to delve into all her improvisational comic gifts,
Speaker 1: create a character over a long series of time. This
Speaker 1: is an ensemble show, too, Adam, but in a way,
Speaker 1: this is her lead role. This is the one that
Speaker 1: maybe she didn't get in film throughout her career, And yeah,
Speaker 1: I just thought it had to be recognized here. I
Speaker 1: think my list would have been paltry without it. This
Speaker 1: is on Netflix if people haven't caught up with Shit's Creek,
Speaker 1: So right now, we're about halfway through our rewatch. We
Speaker 1: watched it when it first aired and loved it. Moira
Speaker 1: Rose is basically the disgraced former actress who's trying to
Speaker 1: rebuild her life with her spoiled family after they are
Speaker 1: forced to move to a small town having I'm not
Speaker 1: going to get to into the plot. Basically, they've lost
Speaker 1: all their wealth. Her husband here a name that's going
Speaker 1: to come up a lot Eugene Levy get to have
Speaker 1: them working off of each other and man, Adam your
Speaker 1: description at the top of her creating this own moral
Speaker 1: universe or.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of her, I definitely, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: A multiverse depending on what wig Moira Wit decides to
Speaker 1: wear that day the point. And I think half of
Speaker 1: Eugene Levy's wide eyed reaction shots, which is probably like
Speaker 1: eighty five percent of his performance on the show come
Speaker 1: from one of Moira's absurd proclamations. And this is in
Speaker 1: terms of both content what she says and how she
Speaker 1: says it. I think O'Hara has invented her own accent
Speaker 1: for this part. It is it is a posh draw
Speaker 1: if that's a thing. It's it's like Catherine Hepburn, but
Speaker 1: tipsy and slurring her speech. Maybe I mean to give
Speaker 1: you a sense of this. There is a super cut
Speaker 1: on YouTube her just pronouncing baby as Bebe. It's throughout
Speaker 1: the series, Yes, I seen. I think the accent work
Speaker 1: here is you know, is just a tour de fouresid
Speaker 1: its own. It's no idea of.
Speaker 2: The toller Bebe can take on its mother or it's
Speaker 2: mother's mother.
Speaker 3: Where is Bebe's chamber.
Speaker 4: You're right we should go.
Speaker 3: Justcen has that beepe thing time?
Speaker 1: Did you said you couldn't make it because of the
Speaker 1: bebe I'm curious about this too. Rewatching it on the
Speaker 1: first watch, I thought, and this speaks to your point too, Adam,
Speaker 1: Moira might be the one in this family. So there's
Speaker 1: the two adult children and then her husband, who grows
Speaker 1: the least, like over four or five seasons, there might
Speaker 1: be they all kind of some grown, become humbled, or
Speaker 1: recognize value in others. In my first watch, I felt
Speaker 1: like Moira was, let's say, the most steadfast. But I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe you know, especially now as we're as
Speaker 1: we're picking up on these nuances she brings to characters.
Speaker 1: I'll be eager to watch these last two seasons or
Speaker 1: so and see if I missed something and she might
Speaker 1: have might have snuck something in there on us to
Speaker 1: Moira as well. I wouldn't be surprised, But at the
Speaker 1: same time wouldn't be surprised if she had that that
Speaker 1: conviction to Moira's own reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, steadfast is such a charitable way of putting it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: I didn't include it in part because I absolutely knew
Speaker 3: you would. I figured I could leave it off because
Speaker 3: of the TV technicality, and also, not only have I
Speaker 3: not watched It's Creek twice or am not on my
Speaker 3: second viewing, I haven't finished it once. I've seen certainly
Speaker 3: the bulk of the episodes. I know my wife has
Speaker 3: seen the entire series, but I still have some homework
Speaker 3: to do, Josh. So I don't feel like I have
Speaker 3: any claim to Moira Rose like you do.
Speaker 1: You've got a lot of good stuff waiting for you.
Speaker 1: Had you gotten to the point where she was filming
Speaker 1: her schlocky horror movie The Crows have ice three the
Speaker 1: Crow name. Did you get to that yet? I did
Speaker 1: not get to that. Okay, you got good stuff ahead.
Speaker 1: I'll just say that.
Speaker 3: Well, actually a perfect transition because every actor, or almost
Speaker 3: every actor, you may know them for a breakout role,
Speaker 3: but you go look at their IMDb and they probably
Speaker 3: have some kind of schlocky horror, schlocky thriller right first
Speaker 3: as their first feature, maybe after their TV work, or
Speaker 3: thrown into their TV work there near the end, before
Speaker 3: they really transition to the big time.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Catherine O'Hara is no different. Double negative is what the
Speaker 3: movie's called a nineteen eighty thriller that she is in.
Speaker 3: But I'm going with my outlier and I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: keep going in order.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 3: I've got it at number four. Already mentioned by the
Speaker 3: listener that you quoted Josh Gail from After Hours, and
Speaker 3: not only is it a great performance, I truly believe,
Speaker 3: but deserves recognition I think on this list because after
Speaker 3: double negative, well, let me just set that aside. It
Speaker 3: really was her first notable screen appearance, certainly a major
Speaker 3: studio film, working with a major director, obviously in Martin Scorsese.
Speaker 3: It's the first time she was really widely recognized as
Speaker 3: a comedic performer on screen.
Speaker 1: First time.
Speaker 3: You know, critics were taking note of her as well,
Speaker 3: and you know, you talked about the magic of O'Hara.
Speaker 3: The magic of this performance as Gail lies for me
Speaker 3: in what I was saying before about her performance as
Speaker 3: Delia as well. It lies in how she grounds this character,
Speaker 3: because this in this movie that's completely ungrounded, right, This
Speaker 3: mister softy ice cream truck driver. That's what she does
Speaker 3: for a living, and she wants to tell you that
Speaker 3: she is a mister softy ice cream truck driver. She
Speaker 3: is the embo of chaos. She absolutely takes to another level,
Speaker 3: helps escalate the already highly escalated absurdity of this night
Speaker 3: for Griffin Dunn's Paul character. And how does O'Hara play her.
Speaker 3: I wasn't able to rewatch the entire movie, Josh, But
Speaker 3: I don't know if Gail's heart rate gets above like
Speaker 3: one oh five. It's just it's just pretty steady and
Speaker 3: calm the entire time. She does not play the comedy.
Speaker 3: She doesn't play the chaos at all. She just plays Gail.
Speaker 3: And in just one scene which I think is probably
Speaker 3: universally the most famous scene of hers in the movie,
Speaker 3: it's the scene where she and Paul meet out out
Speaker 3: on the street in an alley.
Speaker 1: He gets hurt.
Speaker 3: She brings him up to her apartment ostensibly to help
Speaker 3: bandage up is his wounded arm, like she's going to
Speaker 3: take care of him. It's just under five minutes, and Josh,
Speaker 3: I'm probably even missing a few different layers here, but
Speaker 3: she gives us Gail as genuinely sympathetic, look at your arm,
Speaker 3: it's bleeding. I'll get you a bandage right into sweetly
Speaker 3: self absorbed I have my own mister, softy truck, even
Speaker 3: though he didn't ask. He has no interest in what
Speaker 3: she does for a living, right into accommodating do you
Speaker 3: need a pencil as he tries to write down a
Speaker 3: phone number, then right into playing the jesture, saying random
Speaker 3: numbers out loud to discombobulate him so he can't remember
Speaker 3: the numbers that he's supposed to dial.
Speaker 1: Five eight one, nine six.
Speaker 4: Two.
Speaker 1: That was funny, That was funny.
Speaker 3: This poor guy just needs a break, and all she
Speaker 3: wants to do is torment him and confuse him so
Speaker 3: he can't make this phone call. The best part of
Speaker 3: the scene, though, Josh, is that devilish grin. She has
Speaker 3: that joyful, devilish face she makes when he calls the
Speaker 3: operator again. Take two, and she makes a face like
Speaker 3: almost like your mom makes when you're a little kid
Speaker 3: and she's about to tickle you again.
Speaker 1: Oh, here it comes. You're gonna do it again? Five
Speaker 1: eight six two, don't nine three eight zero? Sure enough?
Speaker 3: More numbers out loud and he loses them again. Then
Speaker 3: she lets out this laugh, almost like she's the joker,
Speaker 3: but you know, a more benevolent joker.
Speaker 1: And then Josh, she goes back to.
Speaker 3: Being caring again, except and this, this is what you
Speaker 3: were saying about where the wild things are? This is
Speaker 3: we can trace it back to this moment. Here she's caring,
Speaker 3: except there is just a little bit of menace in
Speaker 3: her voice. The danger is there, Like if he wasn't
Speaker 3: so desperate, Sureley Paul would recognize that something is off
Speaker 3: with this woman. And I just think if you saw
Speaker 3: SCTV and then you went to the movies, the new
Speaker 3: Martin Scorsese movie, and you saw Catherine O'Hara on screen,
Speaker 3: none of this maybe would have surprised you about her,
Speaker 3: right you would have said, oh, of course, I expect
Speaker 3: this transition to movies. But if you never saw SCTV
Speaker 3: and you just went out to the movies and saw
Speaker 3: this woman playing Gail, I think my first reaction would
Speaker 3: have been something like, how have I missed her? Because
Speaker 3: surely this comedic actress has been in like twenty films already.
Speaker 3: She's just too polished and too funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know what's coming next with Gail. I
Speaker 1: think this character is also an example of what I think.
Speaker 1: I mentioned this when we shared the news on that episode,
Speaker 1: after just hearing about her passing, how O'Hara comes into
Speaker 1: a movie and can often no matter what movie you've
Speaker 1: been watching and whoever she's playing, you suddenly kind of
Speaker 1: wish the movie became that character's movie and you could
Speaker 1: follow them. Now, that might be a dangerous proposition with
Speaker 1: Gail because it could go potentially to some very dark places,
Speaker 1: but it could go to some fun places too. It
Speaker 1: could be some ice cream involved. I mean, really, who knows?
Speaker 1: It would have been a wild, a wild ride when
Speaker 1: it comes to Gail. All right, So I think here's
Speaker 1: where we'll have some splitting of hairs, of ranking but
Speaker 1: shared shared characters. Because Sheila Albertson in waiting for Guffman,
Speaker 1: wants her time in the spotlight and deserves her time
Speaker 1: in the spotlight. She's not paired O'Hara's not paired here
Speaker 1: with Eugene Levy. Even though this is a Christopher Guest mockumentary,
Speaker 1: this time it is Fred Willard Ron and Sheila Albertson,
Speaker 1: the overly confident travel agent couple who you know have
Speaker 1: some performance experience and they are very eager to be
Speaker 1: part of the community theater production. At the heart of
Speaker 1: this film, their audition.
Speaker 2: Scene, you surprised how did you find me?
Speaker 1: I have my ways? Would you like to come in
Speaker 1: for coffee? You don't need to ask.
Speaker 2: They just don't need to speak.
Speaker 1: It's so loud, they're saying, it's just so loud. And
Speaker 1: she has no concern for really hitting a note. And
Speaker 1: I think, if I'm noticing that, Adam, it must be
Speaker 1: really bad. Right.
Speaker 3: We're all Bob Balaban in that scene.
Speaker 1: Right, just like reaching for the glass of water, not
Speaker 1: sure what to do, whereas guests Corky Saint Clair's smitten,
Speaker 1: just Smith's in right with the passion, with the passion
Speaker 1: they're showing. How about the double date at the Chinese
Speaker 1: restaurant where she drunkenly brings up her husband's penis reduction surgery, right,
Speaker 1: and you think you know, okay, low hanging fruit, right,
Speaker 1: fun intended? You just you just give you give that
Speaker 1: as the script, if that was even in the script.
Speaker 1: But oh my gosh, the comic chaos. She again, like
Speaker 1: Gail induces with it.
Speaker 2: We'll talk what's it like to be with the circumsessment I.
Speaker 1: Ask you more about that? But Hern said the whole
Speaker 1: jew things and then acting like she isn't doing anything
Speaker 1: unusual that everyone else at the table. Adam is being
Speaker 1: weird by how they're responding to her bringing it up.
Speaker 1: There you go in her own reality, right, her own reality.
Speaker 1: And you know what this made me realize. I wonder
Speaker 1: if she is an influence, if O'Hara is an influence
Speaker 1: at all on Tim Robinson, who you know with I
Speaker 1: think you should leave. I think that was the name
Speaker 1: of his the cringe comedy. You know that he specializes
Speaker 1: in friendship. That was the Paul Rudd. I think a
Speaker 1: movie from last year, just a guy who walks into
Speaker 1: a scene is as weird as possible and doesn't understand
Speaker 1: why people are reacting that way. There's a there's a
Speaker 1: variation of that happening here in this sequence, and I
Speaker 1: think in a lot of the scenes with O'Hara characters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a delight to just watch some of these
Speaker 1: waiting for Guffman sequences. Again, I haven't watched it in
Speaker 1: years and years. I think the key to this movie
Speaker 1: is really that this production they're trying to put on
Speaker 1: isn't that terrible. I mean it's bad, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: it's bad, but it's it never pushes. The movie never
Speaker 1: pushes beyond the comic familiar ribbing, you know, into something
Speaker 1: that's that's just kind of ripping them apart for their idiocy.
Speaker 1: It never goes that far. And I think that O'Hara,
Speaker 1: even in a scene like that restaurant, manages a shred
Speaker 1: of idiosyncratic dignity to Sheila. That is crucial. It's the
Speaker 1: only way, that's the only way she can act like
Speaker 1: she's being the completely normal one. Adam, you hear Scream
Speaker 1: seven and you might think, come on, how many of
Speaker 1: these do we really need? Well, if I look at
Speaker 1: my Scream ranked list, I actually have the two most
Speaker 1: recent Scream films twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: kind of high up there. I have them as number
Speaker 1: three and number four of the Scream film So all
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Speaker 3: I have Sheila at number three on my list, and
Speaker 3: you know I talked about the range that you see
Speaker 3: just within that one after hour scene. What's fun about
Speaker 3: the guest performances that we're going to talk about. We're
Speaker 3: talking about just three, but you think about the other
Speaker 3: films as well. Is how vastly different these characters are.
Speaker 3: And maybe that sounds obvious, but there's no sort of
Speaker 3: type casting with her. Fred Willard, as brilliant as he is,
Speaker 3: is always kind of Fred Willard, right. But if you
Speaker 3: think about the three characters we're going to mention with
Speaker 3: Catherine O'Hara, she's she's not remotely the same person. She's
Speaker 3: not remotely playing the same character. That's probably true across
Speaker 3: the seven or eight or however many it is different
Speaker 3: characters that we're going to mention over the course of
Speaker 3: this list, and I think that just speaks to how
Speaker 3: talented she is now in every case here that I'm
Speaker 3: I'm going to mention, and I think maybe maybe so
Speaker 3: far other than you know, where the wild Things are,
Speaker 3: she is coupled with a man, and there is never
Speaker 3: an impulse, it seems for us as viewers watching her,
Speaker 3: there never seems to be an impulse to be anything
Speaker 3: but supportive, and I mean supportive in the way ensemble
Speaker 3: and improvisational comedy has to be that anyone of any
Speaker 3: gender has to be within that type of environment. There's
Speaker 3: just a complete absence of ego. There's an understanding, and
Speaker 3: in this case, you know, it's that Fred Willard is
Speaker 3: Fred Willard, and both his persona and this character are
Speaker 3: predicated on being blowhards who are going to ramble on
Speaker 3: a bit. They're going to make every conversation and every
Speaker 3: moment about themselves, and he'll be hilarious and she's going
Speaker 3: to set him up. Or like in the scene that
Speaker 3: I want to single out, which is the.
Speaker 5: One where they're talking about their dreams of going to Hollywood,
Speaker 5: not Broadway, going to Hollywood, and he does his awful
Speaker 5: actor impressions.
Speaker 3: She just like us, has no idea who he's actually impersonating, right,
Speaker 3: But what does she do?
Speaker 1: Like what does her character do? And he even mentions it?
Speaker 3: She laughs, She laughs right along, you know, she supports
Speaker 3: him right and giggles with him, like, oh, you're doing
Speaker 3: such a good job, even though again she has absolutely
Speaker 3: no clue what he's doing.
Speaker 1: But what ends up happening?
Speaker 3: What does O'Hara end up happening, especially since we know
Speaker 3: the dynamic and we know how these these scenes are
Speaker 3: shot for the most part, in these Christopher Guest movies,
Speaker 3: what ends up happening? She just waits for exactly her
Speaker 3: moment and she delivers. And I think not just here
Speaker 3: Josh in this scene, but probably in every scene in
Speaker 3: this movie and most scenes in all of the guest
Speaker 3: movies that she's in. She waits for her moment and
Speaker 3: she delivers what is usually the most memorable part of
Speaker 3: the scene.
Speaker 2: You know, I want to try that less as more
Speaker 2: kind of acting where you just when you're talking to someone,
Speaker 2: you close your eyes and then you look at them.
Speaker 1: When you're not talking to the person.
Speaker 2: I mean, you open your eyes when you're looking away,
Speaker 2: but then when you talk to the person, you like that,
Speaker 2: and you open your eyes and then you look.
Speaker 1: Back at the person.
Speaker 3: That's the funniest part of that scene, without a doubt,
Speaker 3: you know. And she just she just waits, she just
Speaker 3: waits her turn patiently for that moment to happen. And
Speaker 3: you know, Fred's character here is an idiot, and you
Speaker 3: laugh at him, and that's great. He understands that. Guest
Speaker 3: understands that. I think I think O'Hara understands that about Fred.
Speaker 3: But you just really can't laugh. You can't laugh at
Speaker 3: Sheila or I think most of, if not all, of
Speaker 3: O'Hara's characters, because not only do they have the human
Speaker 3: part that we've talked about, they're just and this is
Speaker 3: true certainly of Sheila. I think they're just so damn earnest.
Speaker 3: They're so earnest. You you just you you you like
Speaker 3: them and you can't laugh at them. And that's that's
Speaker 3: what I felt anyway, watching Sheila in this scene, which
Speaker 3: still just cracks me up every time I watch it
Speaker 3: and think about her. Less is more approach to acting.
Speaker 1: There's a through line now that we're talking about it,
Speaker 1: of that supportive element to Yeah, so much of what
Speaker 1: she does, and in terms of being there and allowing
Speaker 1: her co star to do what they need to do
Speaker 1: and giving them something tied to that, I think that's
Speaker 1: going to be a crucial part to what is likely
Speaker 1: our shared number one. So I'll save that and maybe
Speaker 1: I'll move to my number three because this element of
Speaker 1: a co star and supporting them and still making room
Speaker 1: for her own comedy is not only crucial to her character.
Speaker 1: I think it's crucial. This is the one I rewatched
Speaker 1: for this list. I think it's crucial to best in Show. Overall.
Speaker 1: I liked this. I've always liked this movie, but I
Speaker 1: liked it so much more this time. I think because
Speaker 1: I realized that there were certain couples who we meet
Speaker 1: who are going to this dog show. Some are just
Speaker 1: terrible for you each other and terrible to each other, right,
Speaker 1: and those are funny, But the ones that stick with us,
Speaker 1: uh huh are those who we get to know that
Speaker 1: it's more about how they're there for each other. And
Speaker 1: I think Cookie, Cookie, Cookie, Google's Cooky, She's Cookie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cookie and her husband played by Eugene Levy in this case,
Speaker 1: of course, are so wonderfully supportive of each other in
Speaker 1: some very awkward situations, most of them due to the
Speaker 1: fact that we learn along the way, as her husband
Speaker 1: does on this trip to the dog show, that Cookie
Speaker 1: had a lively romantic life before they married. And this
Speaker 1: is this is an example, Adam, I think of like
Speaker 1: the one note I was talking about, like.
Speaker 3: I was going to go there if you didn't. Yes, right,
Speaker 3: It's kind of like one joke with Cookie, one joke.
Speaker 1: Cookie has this promiscuous past, okay, and it could have
Speaker 1: been a gag that got tired. But I have to think,
Speaker 1: you know, Levy, I think is a co writer here
Speaker 1: with guests. I have to think they like trusted her
Speaker 1: to just say this is all you need and we
Speaker 1: know what you'll do with it, because the improvisational possibilities
Speaker 1: that knowing you're getting served a fastball in every one
Speaker 1: of your scenes, and you can choose to hit it
Speaker 1: to right field to let me dumbside, like you just
Speaker 1: know what's coming. And here's what she does. Every guy
Speaker 1: who comes up and recognizes her and shares their memory
Speaker 1: with her, each guy is different because of how she responds,
Speaker 1: and each situation is different because of how she plays it,
Speaker 1: and you get a sense of their particular relationship, which
Speaker 1: is unique every time. Doesn't she look fantastic? Well, thank you?
Speaker 1: Well you've got that right, good one.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Eighteen nineteen years Louisville, the mint Julip.
Speaker 1: You were working as a waitress thing. Wow, welcome Malcolm,
Speaker 1: Malcolm Malcolm, Oh yeah, you know I've banged a lot
Speaker 1: of waitresses to my dave you you you were the best.
Speaker 1: You do forget.
Speaker 2: Oh Jerry, Jerry.
Speaker 1: I think part of you know, Jerry is her husband.
Speaker 1: And then this goes back to the supporting thing. Part
Speaker 1: of the cookie persona is the way during each one
Speaker 1: of these encounters she makes room for Jerry's feelings of discomfort. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: she doesn't apologize. Let's be clear, there's nothing for her
Speaker 1: to apologize for this. You know, this was before she
Speaker 1: met Jerry, but you know, she's she doesn't just turn
Speaker 1: all her attention to these men. There's and this too
Speaker 1: she gives variations to depending on Jerry's reaction, how how
Speaker 1: like mortified he is, she'll alter her response. It's just
Speaker 1: that she acknowledges his discomfort. So this is some of
Speaker 1: the nuanced some of the layers she brings to it.
Speaker 1: Can we just also say, I don't know what O'Hara
Speaker 1: did with her leg, but after Cookie sprains her knee
Speaker 1: just before the climactic final show competition, uh huh, and
Speaker 1: she's wobbling in a circle around that backstage. I don't
Speaker 1: know how she did that physically, but it is disturbing
Speaker 1: and it is hilarious. And I don't know how much
Speaker 1: physical comedy we get from from O'Hara, but but she
Speaker 1: definitely throws them out there in this movie and it
Speaker 1: works quite well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got Cookie Fleck from Best in Show as
Speaker 3: my number two and she might be the best character
Speaker 3: in the movie, even though I am going to say,
Speaker 3: and she's part of this obviously part of the scene
Speaker 3: and part of what makes this joke work, the single
Speaker 3: best joke in the movie, and it might be the
Speaker 3: single I'm gonna say, I'm gonna go bold here, Josh.
Speaker 3: The single best joke maybe in all of the the
Speaker 3: Christopher Guest universe, is one that belongs to Eugene Levy
Speaker 3: in the scene Well Levy and Christopher Guest, and it's
Speaker 3: when they're talking about how they met on the dance
Speaker 3: floor and how he's protesting, no, I can't dance.
Speaker 1: I can't dance.
Speaker 3: I've got two left feet, and she says, I thought
Speaker 3: he was kidding, and there's a pause. So I rewatched
Speaker 3: this too, Josh, and I hadn't seen Best in Show
Speaker 3: in I don't know how long, at least ten years, right,
Speaker 3: so I didn't remember exactly what was going to happen here.
Speaker 3: And I am telling you truthfully, in this moment, it's
Speaker 3: like Christopher Guest knew. I think he did know, right.
Speaker 3: He was smart enough to know that every audience member
Speaker 3: understood that we were watching a Christopher Guest movie and
Speaker 3: that anything could happen here. And when he says, you know,
Speaker 3: I have two left feet, and when the camera pauses
Speaker 3: that the reality could be that he actually has two
Speaker 3: left feet, and the pause allows for that. And I
Speaker 3: actually set out loud on my couch, even though I've
Speaker 3: seen this movie before, I set out loud, don't do it,
Speaker 3: like like, no, you're not, actually you're not gonna do it.
Speaker 3: And then he's in right is right after I finished
Speaker 3: the word it. But I wasn't in the slope pan
Speaker 3: down and Josh, that alone, that alone, that sort of
Speaker 3: interaction with the audience, and the notion that he actually
Speaker 3: has two left feet, the slope pan that that could
Speaker 3: be enough. That's enough to make it brilliant. But of
Speaker 3: course they take it to another level. They had a
Speaker 3: nickname for me. They called me Loopy because I walked
Speaker 3: in circles. I mean, I I just I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know if it could be topped.
Speaker 1: Can I point out the callback to this that I
Speaker 1: didn't catch. Debbie caught this when we were watching it.
Speaker 1: This is why he wins. Yeah, because when he's walking
Speaker 1: the dog, he has to go in circles. Of course, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: Jerry was born for this. I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's he's very limited, but it actually it actually.
Speaker 1: Pays this case. Circles is a skill.
Speaker 3: So Cookie, you know, she just she takes no offense.
Speaker 3: Of course, at the vulgarity of all these men who
Speaker 3: approached them right in front of her husband Noah's We
Speaker 3: think we think she might be like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: that's that's in the past, you know, don't say that.
Speaker 3: We think she might have more respect for her husband's feelings.
Speaker 3: But no, yeah, exactly, she tries to thread the needle
Speaker 3: and and.
Speaker 1: In uh in that seed, you know, in this in
Speaker 1: this one of the very memorable scenes, right, the character says,
Speaker 1: I've banged a lot of cocktail waitresses in my day,
Speaker 1: but you never forget the best.
Speaker 3: And again she doesn't. There's no offense in that because
Speaker 3: in fact, she takes pride. She says, you know, forget
Speaker 3: the best, right like she knows she's the best in
Speaker 3: that moment.
Speaker 1: So that is the joke.
Speaker 3: The joke for her is that recurring gag of men,
Speaker 3: every man showing up and then her sort of unrepentant
Speaker 3: you know, shameless horniness or the feminism of cookie Fleck
Speaker 3: because you know, she's she's not going to let society
Speaker 3: or her marriage vows. I'm gonna say, you know, restrict
Speaker 3: her choices, Josh, because or her fond recollections, but her
Speaker 3: choices because these aren't just choices in the past the
Speaker 3: movie suggests, right, like, let's not forget that when they
Speaker 3: go to Larry Miller's house. They stop off at Larry
Speaker 3: Miller's house, there is that scene where they just disappear.
Speaker 3: They just disappear in the house. And I don't think
Speaker 3: he was like showing her as bowling trophies, you know, like,
Speaker 3: I think we know what they were getting up to
Speaker 3: in that scene. But but you mentioned this, and I
Speaker 3: do think this is what makes the character work so well.
Speaker 3: And it is about it's about cutting that sort of
Speaker 3: edge of the one note. It's about adding in the
Speaker 3: real human element that we've talked about so much. Do
Speaker 3: you ever feel like, you know, you talked about the
Speaker 3: characters who support each other. Do you ever feel like
Speaker 3: despite this, despite in any real marriage, any any man
Speaker 3: really you know, obviously being even more disturbed by this
Speaker 3: and you know, not allowing it. Do you ever feel
Speaker 3: like Cookie is using Jerry for something? Do you ever
Speaker 3: feel like she's she's using him for his money or
Speaker 3: just some kind of stability. No, it seems like she
Speaker 3: genuinely loves her husband and she's she's taking no pleasure
Speaker 3: in cooking him in this way. She just has a
Speaker 3: voracious sexual appetite and and I think, I think it's
Speaker 3: the end scene for me, Josh, because here again you
Speaker 3: think how many different variations on this joke, but also
Speaker 3: her response to it. Can she give us and have
Speaker 3: them still be as frish and and as brilliant as
Speaker 3: as the last one? And they're in this they're in
Speaker 3: the recording studio. They're singing the Terrier song. And by
Speaker 3: now you think, maybe you know, he's been triumphant, he won, right,
Speaker 3: he won for them. Maybe maybe this is behind them now,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe he'll have some more respect and
Speaker 3: maybe some some of these men won't. You know, this
Speaker 3: is a part of the film, but you're just thinking,
Speaker 3: maybe you know, he's got some status and he can
Speaker 3: move on with his life and this won't haunt him anymore.
Speaker 1: And what happens.
Speaker 3: They're in the recording studio, and of course the engineer
Speaker 3: recognizes her.
Speaker 4: Cookie Yeah, Cookie Google man, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Does this ring a bell? I'm not wearing underwear?
Speaker 3: Fault?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's me. Yeah, it's me.
Speaker 3: And this moment, Josh O'Hara's moment, that focused look that
Speaker 3: she gives the guy, and that little cough and the
Speaker 3: lowering of the voice, which she says he's He says,
Speaker 3: you look good girl, whatever, and she goes you too.
Speaker 1: You look fantastic too. You've grown.
Speaker 4: I'm growing right now, girl, I'm just looking at you.
Speaker 3: Poor Jerry, right, I mean Levy Levi starts banging his
Speaker 3: head against the microphone.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite.
Speaker 3: I think that is my favorite Cookie fleck line delivery
Speaker 3: in the entire film. You two, you've grown, like you
Speaker 3: just know like it's over. It's over for Jerry, Like,
Speaker 3: do not let do not let Bulge come out from
Speaker 3: behind that side of the glass, Do not let Cookie
Speaker 3: go into that side of the studio. Just just leave
Speaker 3: as fast as you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to watch that and see you know
Speaker 1: what she does to acknowledge Jerry, Like, is that the
Speaker 1: rare moment where she's like, he's not here as far
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, he doesn't.
Speaker 3: She doesn't look at all at him. She is straight
Speaker 3: on with Bulge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, because there's because there's Yeah, most scenes she'll
Speaker 1: she'll try to make space for for Harry as well,
Speaker 1: which is Yeah, it's a it's a really much more,
Speaker 1: much funnier and more. I always used to credit a
Speaker 1: Mighty Wind, which I think we're about to get to
Speaker 1: with being the more thoughtful and resonant Christopher Guest's documentary.
Speaker 1: But there was a lot of that invest in show
Speaker 1: and the and you know, especially the other couple besides
Speaker 1: Cookie and Jerry. I think of where Michael McKeon and
Speaker 1: John Michael Higgins as Stefan and Scott like you just
Speaker 1: realized for it.
Speaker 2: Listen to Laugh with Me a podcast with Jeremy Odom
Speaker 2: right here on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 2: you get your podcast. I'm j oh I'm your host, baby,
Speaker 2: and here's a little taste of what you are gonna
Speaker 2: find on Laugh with Me. And they're like, what happened.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I got Peppi's braid, and everybody's like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, what happened? I got Beavorence braid.
Speaker 1: I just told you.
Speaker 2: And listen to Laugh with Me on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: You know, outrageous and you know, stereotypical. We would say
Speaker 1: this couple presents like there is They are there for
Speaker 1: each other in every moment and in every way, and
Speaker 1: there was something like just so sweet about that amidst
Speaker 1: all the laughs, and I think even with Jerry and Cookie,
Speaker 1: there is something sweet amidst all the perversity, perhaps so
Speaker 1: without a doubt. So we're at our shared number one
Speaker 1: if I've been following correctly, And this is in terms
Speaker 1: of the carving her own space alongside a co star,
Speaker 1: but delivering that support. I think her performance is Mickey
Speaker 1: in a Mighty Wind is to me the definitive Ohara character,
Speaker 1: and you know, really a distinctive performance in the way
Speaker 1: it it pumps the breaks on the comedy a little bit,
Speaker 1: not saying that she isn't quite funny in a Mighty Win.
Speaker 1: She's one half of Mitch and Mickey. So Eugene Levy
Speaker 1: is the other half. Christopher guest again and they're a
Speaker 1: folk duo who they separated years before professionally and romantically
Speaker 1: and have now been reunited for this memorial concert. And
Speaker 1: I think both of them, I think Levy two, they're
Speaker 1: really layering their improvisational genius with a feel for fully
Speaker 1: formed characters. It feels like this is something they've been
Speaker 1: working towards as collaborators on screen, collaborators through some of
Speaker 1: the movies. We've been talking about and Mitch and Mickey
Speaker 1: are just something special. I actually had them as my
Speaker 1: number two movie band when we did that Top five
Speaker 1: that was episode five oh three. And yeah, I think
Speaker 1: with O'Hara here you can see how she's maybe it's calibration, right,
Speaker 1: it's not choosing one thing over the other, it's where
Speaker 1: am I going to modulate? And I feel like here
Speaker 1: she's going slightly more. She's slightly privileging sincerity overhumor while
Speaker 1: allowing both to be part of every moment that she's in.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a dexterity there that's quite special.
Speaker 1: And then to put over the top you have you know,
Speaker 1: their climactic performance at this reunion concert of kiss at
Speaker 1: the end of the Rainbow. I think here is where
Speaker 1: O'Hara is going for sincerity and it's funny. At my
Speaker 1: notes after watching this again are so in line with
Speaker 1: what we've been talking about because that sequence, we're all
Speaker 1: waiting to see if they're going to kiss at the
Speaker 1: end of the song, right, this is what they used
Speaker 1: to do traditionally the audience is waiting for We now
Speaker 1: vicariously as movie viewers, are waiting to see if they're
Speaker 1: going to do this and watching it this time, I
Speaker 1: think I realized that Mickey was giving that kiss as
Speaker 1: a gift to Mitch. So it wasn't this romantic thing
Speaker 1: between the two of them. It was more of a
Speaker 1: one side It struck me this time as more of
Speaker 1: a one sided gift, knowing he needed it even if
Speaker 1: she didn't. And so it's not even a romantic need
Speaker 1: Micky's fulfilling here. But this is a gesture of affirmation,
Speaker 1: which I think is something quite sophisticated to try to
Speaker 1: perform and a choice rather than just going for that romance.
Speaker 1: But I think it's true to to who this character is,
Speaker 1: who Mickey is through throughout the movie. And I want
Speaker 1: to real quick before I thought to you, share something
Speaker 1: from a listener Luke Standaway, because I saw his letterbox
Speaker 1: review of A Mighty Wind. Must have watched it after
Speaker 1: O'Hara passed, and he said this, Catherine O'Hara can make
Speaker 1: you laugh your pants off and then with the faintest expression,
Speaker 1: break your heart. And if yeah, there's no reason or
Speaker 1: there's a clear reason he wrote that for a Mighty Wind.
Speaker 1: After watching A Mighty Wind, right, I think that's absolutely
Speaker 1: what she does here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did have Cookie as my number one for
Speaker 3: the longest time, and then, as sometimes happens, you end
Speaker 3: up rearranging your list. The more you think about the films,
Speaker 3: the more you the more you start justifying your picks,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, I found myself going, no,
Speaker 3: it's got to be Mickey. It's got to be a
Speaker 3: mighty wind at number one. And a big part of
Speaker 3: it is that you you said it, Josh, is that
Speaker 3: this character, even though she is part of this duo,
Speaker 3: it's wrestling with this very notion of supportive or being
Speaker 3: fifty percent of a whole versus being one hundred percent
Speaker 3: of yourself, and that that's what the character's wrestling with.
Speaker 3: And we see, you know O'Hara then getting to kind
Speaker 3: of bring that out in her performance. This character is singular,
Speaker 3: and I think that that separates her. She she's not
Speaker 3: there just to support Levy, certainly for most of this film.
Speaker 3: She's she's separated and thus separate and and she's not
Speaker 3: defined in any way as wife of right or partner
Speaker 3: of and I think that that that is a distinction,
Speaker 3: that that matters, and even at the end when we
Speaker 3: see post kiss, and that's what really matters to me.
Speaker 3: As good as the kiss is and as amazing as
Speaker 3: it makes me feel watching it, even watching it again
Speaker 3: just on YouTube, the aftermath is what really gets me, Josh,
Speaker 3: and what I want to talk about. And and you
Speaker 3: know she's playing Is she playing the harp? One of
Speaker 3: those it's not a harpsichord.
Speaker 1: Is it? She's something like that.
Speaker 3: It's like something like I can't believe I'm blanking on that,
Speaker 3: but she's she's at some kind of trade show or
Speaker 3: something where no one's paying attention to her. But she
Speaker 3: even says, I'm a musician again. You know, I'm a
Speaker 3: musician again, Like I can do this on my own.
Speaker 3: She she is on her own. And I think that
Speaker 3: declaration matters for that character. But you're not wrong that
Speaker 3: they deserve. Mickey and Mitch Vicky deserve to be a
Speaker 3: top five movie band with that song. That's the song incredible,
Speaker 3: so good. It has to be right, It has to
Speaker 3: deliver for us to believe that this movie is going
Speaker 3: to build to it, and that all the characters think
Speaker 3: about think about what Guest has to pull off there,
Speaker 3: not only musically but emotionally. If if the entire film
Speaker 3: hinges on, we have to believe that all those people
Speaker 3: backstage are going to come to the side of the
Speaker 3: stage and look, and we as viewers to everyone in
Speaker 3: the audience, everyone watching the screen and everyone watching from
Speaker 3: the side of the stage, we're all looking for the
Speaker 3: same thing. And we're all listening to that music and
Speaker 3: being moved by it.
Speaker 1: And it works.
Speaker 3: And as I said, there's poignancy absolutely in the kiss itself,
Speaker 3: that kind of will they or won't they? Suspense that
Speaker 3: that really matters, and that anticipation building because of all
Speaker 3: the onlookers. And there's a joke in there too, right,
Speaker 3: you know when when in the aftermath, there's a joke
Speaker 3: in there, like there's always going to be when Nicky says,
Speaker 3: my sister said, well, you shouldn't have let him on.
Speaker 3: You shouldn't have kissed him if you weren't going to
Speaker 3: go all the way. It's what she says, you know,
Speaker 3: like this this nineteen fifties view of teenagers dating or
Speaker 3: something like, it's so stupid, right, but it's also in
Speaker 3: a way accurate, you know, it's accurate as in, if
Speaker 3: all the way actually meant falling back in love, you know, reuniting,
Speaker 3: you shouldn't have kissed him if you weren't willing to
Speaker 3: commit to being all in with him, if you take
Speaker 3: it to mean that it has a serious component to
Speaker 3: it as well as in everything that kiss could could pressage.
Speaker 3: So here again with O'Hara and with Guest, we get
Speaker 3: after a punchline comes from real pathos, right.
Speaker 1: But what I love, Josh.
Speaker 3: And I'm I'm maybe going to push back a little
Speaker 3: bit because on your on your reading, because this is
Speaker 3: a revelation I think I had for the first time,
Speaker 3: and I say, I think I'll explain why I say
Speaker 3: I think I had for the first time watching it
Speaker 3: a few times prepping for this top five. What I
Speaker 3: love about the end of this film post kiss, and
Speaker 3: their individual explanations of what it means and where they
Speaker 3: are now as individuals, is that the film structure by
Speaker 3: putting Nicky first, that that order creates the impression that
Speaker 3: she's the reasonable one. She's the one who sort of
Speaker 3: set a boundary. She's the one who doesn't feel the
Speaker 3: same way about Mitch that he feels about her. She
Speaker 3: is the She's not the one who took the kiss seriously,
Speaker 3: while Mitch might have. And so maybe when we watch
Speaker 3: him explaining to us that he that he wasn't moved
Speaker 3: by it either and it didn't mean anything, and he
Speaker 3: feels sorry for her because she.
Speaker 1: Might have taken it too seriously.
Speaker 3: It feels to us as viewers like he's quite possibly
Speaker 3: deceiving himself, But that's because that's because Micky got to
Speaker 3: talk first. So does guests choice to give Micky primacy
Speaker 3: mean that he wants to leave us with that question?
Speaker 3: As in Micky is speaking from a place of conviction
Speaker 3: and honesty. She feels the way she feels as she
Speaker 3: explained it, and she's worried that you know, Mitch did
Speaker 3: take it too seriously and she just wanted the drama.
Speaker 3: It was just performance and that was it. Or is
Speaker 3: the ambiguity there to make us consider And I'm going
Speaker 3: to argue that I think we have to that it's
Speaker 3: quite likely that Micky took the kiss no less seriously
Speaker 3: than niche, and she's also rationalizing just like he is.
Speaker 3: I think the ambiguity leaves the door open that you know,
Speaker 3: both are really tender people, both are too scared of
Speaker 3: what the kiss could mean. Both are maybe protecting themselves,
Speaker 3: both are protecting each other, or maybe it's only one
Speaker 3: of them, Josh. But maybe it's Micky not Mitch that
Speaker 3: feels the way we all think, Mitch, does you know
Speaker 3: what I mean? Like, I think the ambiguity is there,
Speaker 3: that we read it a certain way because Nicky talks first,
Speaker 3: but maybe that's not the way we should feel about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I'm you know, I didn't watch the
Speaker 1: ending scene, so I don't think I was so influenced
Speaker 1: by the positioning of their testimonies as we might describe
Speaker 1: it as just the scene itself and my understanding of
Speaker 1: who Mickey's been up until that point where it did.
Speaker 1: It did seem to me like she was in a
Speaker 1: more secure place, and you know, Mitch, Mitch is the
Speaker 1: one who had the like serious breakdown over this, right.
Speaker 1: It's it's almost like that goes back to my notion
Speaker 1: of the kiss being a gift. Is her understanding that
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't a chance for us to rekindle our romance,
Speaker 1: but this is a chance for me. This would be
Speaker 1: Mickey thinking to end things well where I didn't before.
Speaker 1: And I'm basing that mostly again in O'Hara's performance in
Speaker 1: the actual kiss scene, in the actual moment where where
Speaker 1: she's she's walking a fine line there too, both as
Speaker 1: O'Hara performer and as Mickey performer. Right. But of course,
Speaker 1: to your point, like you have to allow those ambiguities,
Speaker 1: for this to even be envisioned as an either or
Speaker 1: in terms of its scripting or it's performing, would have
Speaker 1: ruined it, right if you want, you want all those
Speaker 1: human complications to be at play, And I think you
Speaker 1: see that on the part of both performers to allow
Speaker 1: us to ask these questions. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: And what makes it even more dramatically interesting is everything
Speaker 3: you've said it makes it makes for dramatic irony that
Speaker 3: maybe this entire time she's viewed it this way and
Speaker 3: she's been that character, and she's the one who separated
Speaker 3: herself from him, and then at the end she actually
Speaker 3: found herself in the moment feeling more moved by it
Speaker 3: than she expected.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I slash absolutely that, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah Slash, he did even you know that could be possible, right?
Speaker 3: And so when I said when I said I think so,
Speaker 3: I think this was a revelation of ambiguity I had.
Speaker 3: It's only because I went back and looked at my
Speaker 3: letterboxed review and I just really had a paragraph on it.
Speaker 3: Though it's one of the ones that I've gotten more comments.
Speaker 3: I don't know it's in my top fifteen or something.
Speaker 3: And I said, I said, despite the brilliance of the
Speaker 3: lines above, and I quote I quote John Michael Hughes
Speaker 3: his character when he said, Wow, what a what a
Speaker 3: line deliverer, A comedic line deliver when he says, there
Speaker 3: had been abuse in my family, but it was mostly
Speaker 3: musical in nature. My father used to lock me out
Speaker 3: a way. My father used to lock me away in
Speaker 3: a room with nothing but the Percy Faith recording of
Speaker 3: Bim Bam Boom and then send me to bed with
Speaker 3: nothing but dessert. Okay, So I said, despite the brilliance
Speaker 3: of the lines above, I can't say Wind is quite
Speaker 3: as funny as Best in Show or Guffman. And actually
Speaker 3: I'm not sure I still feel that way. I need
Speaker 3: to revisit all these films. But it is certainly more poignant.
Speaker 3: Everything hinges on the Mitch and Mickey performance to your point,
Speaker 3: Josh and that kiss, past and present collapsing and colliding,
Speaker 3: which Levy and O'Hara nail naturally. Most affecting, though, is
Speaker 3: the aftermath where guest lets the former lovers each frame
Speaker 3: the moment and its meaning. If there's a more sensitive,
Speaker 3: sad example of the human capacity for rationalization and all
Speaker 3: of Guest's work, I'd love to see it. So rereading
Speaker 3: that when I say rationalization, clearly I was seeing it
Speaker 3: in at least one of the characters, the idea being
Speaker 3: as as it's played straight. If you take Mickey at
Speaker 3: face value, it's Mitch who's rationalizing, protecting him and going, oh,
Speaker 3: I hope Mickey didn't take that too seriously, and I
Speaker 3: hope she's okay, right, and he's the one who's rationalizing.
Speaker 3: I think that's how I meant it right, not that
Speaker 3: both of them were potentially rationalizing, but I love to
Speaker 3: think about it now is maybe, wow, what if they
Speaker 3: both for what if Mickey actually is still kind of
Speaker 3: reeling from this kiss?
Speaker 1: It's fun thinking. I think O'Hara's performance is, you know,
Speaker 1: sophisticated enough in a broad comedy like this to allow
Speaker 1: for that possibility.
Speaker 3: Well, those are our top five Catherine O'Hara characters. Any
Speaker 3: additional characters you want to throw in honorable mentions?
Speaker 1: I mean you had my honorable mention, you know, Delia
Speaker 1: in in beat old Juice. I do think that's a
Speaker 1: great performance. Actually, I'll throw in one more as we're
Speaker 1: talking about Christopher Guest too. For your consideration, is the
Speaker 1: rare mockumentary Misfire. I think it's pretty general. We agreed,
Speaker 1: but O'Hara's actually one of the elements that works. She
Speaker 1: plays a career actress who becomes undone a little bit
Speaker 1: by this acclaim she receives during the Hollywood Award season.
Speaker 1: And you know, I haven't watched this. I don't think
Speaker 1: I've watched this twice, but I do wonder if there
Speaker 1: are maybe seeds of Moira Rose in some way in
Speaker 1: that character. So wouldn't recommend for your consideration necessarily to
Speaker 1: go catch up with. But I do think if you've
Speaker 1: seen everything else O'Hara has done and have not seen
Speaker 1: that because it didn't get great reviews, maybe check it out,
Speaker 1: because my memory is she is at least quite good
Speaker 1: in it. And then I will mention I listened to
Speaker 1: on occasion the Julia Louis Dreyfus podcast Wiser than Me,
Speaker 1: and she had maybe a year and a half ago,
Speaker 1: maybe it was a little longer. She had Catherine O'Hara
Speaker 1: on as a guest and just to listen to these
Speaker 1: two improvisational, you know, sketch comedians to talk about all
Speaker 1: sorts of stuff beyond the business. But you know that
Speaker 1: business stuff is just gold. So I would recommend tracking
Speaker 1: that conversation down. That podcast is called Wiser than Me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good pull. I definitely I wasn't aware
Speaker 3: of that, and I would like to hear it for me.
Speaker 3: Moyer Rose is definitely one, obviously, as I said, I
Speaker 3: considered she I think is maybe in the movie for
Speaker 3: only one scene, but it is as you would expect.
Speaker 3: A memorable scene The Paper, the Michael Keaton and Robert
Speaker 3: Duvall film from nineteen ninety four. She is in a
Speaker 3: scene where she's meeting Marissa Tomey, who is Michael Keaton's wife,
Speaker 3: for lunch in the daytime, and she's a former journalist herself,
Speaker 3: like Marissa Tomay's character who gave it up, you know,
Speaker 3: to kind of be there as the supportive wife to
Speaker 3: her husband, gave up her career to raise the kids,
Speaker 3: and as the camera in Marisa Tomey's point of view
Speaker 3: as her eyes keep noticing it's O'Hara's character who keeps
Speaker 3: filling the wineglass, you know, basically up to the top
Speaker 3: in the middle of the day, you know, and she's
Speaker 3: she's a little bit of cerbic there in that scene.
Speaker 3: Let's just say she's not too happy about the choices
Speaker 3: that she has made. And in addition to Shit's Creek.
Speaker 3: From a TV standpoint, you know, she did win for
Speaker 3: the Studio as Patty Lee. And I haven't seen all
Speaker 3: of The Studio. I haven't finished that season, but I
Speaker 3: have seen enough episodes to really enjoy her performance as
Speaker 3: Patty and that I did want to even though I
Speaker 3: haven't seen it at all. But in a lot of
Speaker 3: remembrances of O'Hara her performance as another another Gale, I
Speaker 3: believe in the Last of Us, Josh is someone who
Speaker 3: gets called out in a fair number of you know,
Speaker 3: top ten O'Hara characters and in or on one website
Speaker 3: a list that paid tribute to her Consequence of Sound,
Speaker 3: they said this O'Hara got an Emmy nomination for her
Speaker 3: portrayal the therapist who has no interest in healing herself
Speaker 3: after the death of her husband, a death she blames
Speaker 3: Joel Pedro Pascal for as lovely and Sonny as her
Speaker 3: onscreen persona could be the role of Gail was a
Speaker 3: powerful reminder of how much deep emotion she brought to
Speaker 3: her work. Not to mention her talent, for here's the
Speaker 3: word of Cerbic for her. For a cerbic turns of phrase.
Speaker 3: Your heart broke for Gail and you also related to her,
Speaker 3: no fucks to give any more attitude. The Last of
Speaker 3: Us both some memorable performances, and O'Hara's tender Emmy nominated
Speaker 3: turn as Gail is no exception. So if you're looking
Speaker 3: for a it sounds like almost deadly serious performance from O'Hara.
Speaker 3: The Last of Us maybe one to check out. And
Speaker 3: once again, those are our top five Catherine O'Hara performances.
Speaker 3: You can check out our lists and the scenes we
Speaker 3: mention links to those on YouTube by going to film
Speaker 3: spotting dot net slash list.
Speaker 1: Let's take a moment to thank our film Spotting family
Speaker 1: members for their support of the show. We want to
Speaker 1: especially thank Maggie Gilmore for Wichita and Brad in Vancouver Island, Canada.
Speaker 1: Brad included an exclamation point there at the end of Canada.
Speaker 1: Sure we'll give Canada an exclamation point, Maggie wrote in
Speaker 1: this I know I've been a listener for at least
Speaker 1: eight years, but I can't, for the life of me,
Speaker 1: remember how I found Film Spotting. I'm also a longtime
Speaker 1: listener of Sillier movie podcasts, The Flophouse and Doug Love's Movies,
Speaker 1: so I probably stumbled across Film Spotting on a recommendation
Speaker 1: list and haven't looked back since. One early episode I
Speaker 1: remember really enjoying was The Florida Project, because that film
Speaker 1: shot up to one of my all time favorites after
Speaker 1: watching it based on your review. Love hearing that. Maggie
Speaker 1: Brad also shared a bit here circus twenty seventeen, What
Speaker 1: an awesome year for film I stumbled upon the pod
Speaker 1: after seeking out recommendations on Reddit. The Phantom Thread review
Speaker 1: stands out in retrospect. I was working at an independent
Speaker 1: two screen cinema at the time it was showing, and
Speaker 1: your insights and perspectives helped it climb the ranks of
Speaker 1: my personal all time favorites. Wonderful.
Speaker 3: Maggie says her favorite show segment is Film Spotting Madness.
Speaker 3: It's a favorite every year because there's nothing I love
Speaker 3: more than an excuse to make a list and check
Speaker 3: things off of it. Oh, Maggie, we should get together
Speaker 3: and go bowling sometime. Brad says, I treasure the year
Speaker 3: end top ten lists such a wide variety of films,
Speaker 3: and it's always a joy to discover new favorites.
Speaker 1: We asked them both if they had a random favorite
Speaker 1: film or filmmaker. Maggie suggested strictly. Ballroom said, I think
Speaker 1: it's an underrated boz lerman Jem. For Brad, he's going
Speaker 1: with a Charlie Kaufman. He's going with Charlie Kaufman, saying
Speaker 1: I love my existential dread and yeah, maybe there's a
Speaker 1: good time to note Adam that, speaking of actors passing,
Speaker 1: veteran character actor Tom Noonan news that he died and
Speaker 1: Tom Noonan appeared in two Kaufman films, Senecticky New York
Speaker 1: and A Noma Lisa, the voice of I think all
Speaker 1: the characters in a Nomaly. That sounds right. It's been
Speaker 1: a long time, pretty remarkable concept that Noonan made work brilliantly.
Speaker 3: He is Francis Dollide aka the Tooth Fairy and Manhunter,
Speaker 3: and he's Kelso, the wheelchair bound Hacker and heat he
Speaker 3: was in ty West House of the Devil and Last
Speaker 3: Action Hero RoboCop two. He's in Jarmish's Mystery Train Man
Speaker 3: Heaven's Gate in that infamous movie. And Todd Haynes Wonderstruck
Speaker 3: as well, a very very memorable character actor and sad
Speaker 3: too to hear that news. Sam shared this with me,
Speaker 3: and for some reason I came across it recently. I
Speaker 3: think I think I actually played it, maybe Josh in
Speaker 3: a class for for some reason where I was talking
Speaker 3: about Senectic Key, New York. I played the scene if
Speaker 3: you can find it on YouTube, the scene that's the
Speaker 3: audition scene where he is playing he's auditioning to play
Speaker 3: the role of the Philip Seymour Hoffman character and how
Speaker 3: he's going to embody him.
Speaker 1: And it is it is something. It's it's really good.
Speaker 3: A movie you credit with becoming a cinophile. Maggie says,
Speaker 3: I distinctly remember coming back from winter Break in January
Speaker 3: two thousand and two, after having my mind blown by
Speaker 3: the Fellowship of the Rings and being deeply disappointed that
Speaker 3: none of my fellow sixth graders had any idea what
Speaker 3: I was talking about. Yeah, kids, Brad says, Okay, I
Speaker 3: love this fifty to fifty. I'm so serious. Everybody listening
Speaker 3: right now is typing into their computer or phone. What's
Speaker 3: fifty to fifty? Yes, the Joseph Gordon Levitt Seth Rogan movie.
Speaker 3: And Sam Sam notes here that last week a family
Speaker 3: member had the Gordon Levit starting. Yes, that's true, five
Speaker 3: hundred days a summer in this slot. I do remember that, Sam,
Speaker 3: And here we have fifty to fifty.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: I do remember talking about fifty to fifty. I think
Speaker 3: I may have even given it a recommendation, maybe a
Speaker 3: mild one, but a recommendation.
Speaker 1: Fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3: Those one of those films Josh to compile a list
Speaker 3: someday of the like the movies that time forgot on
Speaker 3: film spotting, You know, movies that you just sort of go,
Speaker 3: really that was that was a film. You know, you
Speaker 3: almost don't remember that it ever came out, that you
Speaker 3: talked about it, that you reviewed it. But when someone
Speaker 3: says it, you go, oh, yeah, I think that was
Speaker 3: a thing. Well apparently it was a thing. Brad remembers
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 1: This is why I have my Larson Film website. It
Speaker 1: may be public facing, Adam, but it's really for me
Speaker 1: so I can answer such questions. And this I did.
Speaker 1: Remember this was a cancer drama. I knew that when
Speaker 1: I heard the title. Okay, and apparently big fan three
Speaker 1: and a half out of four stars, three and a half,
Speaker 1: I said it was deeply affecting and admirably even keeled.
Speaker 1: So there you go. Fifty to fifty Okay.
Speaker 3: Thank you Maggie and Brad for being family members and
Speaker 3: for all of those years of listening. If you'd like
Speaker 3: to follow them on letterbox, you can follow Maggie. She
Speaker 3: is Maggie Gilmore and Brad is be Rad. I think
Speaker 3: you get the gist with both of their names there.
Speaker 3: In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, membership
Speaker 3: does come with perks. You get to listen early in
Speaker 3: ad free, you get our weekly newsletter, you get to
Speaker 3: be part of the film Spotting Family discord, and you
Speaker 3: get monthly bonus shows. Just earlier this week, you got
Speaker 3: our conversation with producer Sam about a Kira Kurasawa's Drunken Angel,
Speaker 3: a blind spot for all three of us, we're all
Speaker 3: pretty happy that we did finally see that movie. Not
Speaker 3: surprisingly pretty good film with Toshiro Maffune. Yeah, we went
Speaker 3: for it spoilers. More information about joining the Film Spotting
Speaker 3: Family is available at film Spottingfamily dot com, and you
Speaker 3: can also help out the show by rating or reviewing
Speaker 3: us at Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Go ahead, just take
Speaker 3: a second, just click five stars.
Speaker 1: Why not? We thought you up.
Speaker 3: All the pigo. Next week here on the show Josh,
Speaker 3: we will continue our Film Spotting Pantheon project homework with
Speaker 3: the Kira Kurosawa's Raschoman. The director is nineteen fifty masterpiece.
Speaker 3: This is one we have both seen, though it has
Speaker 3: probably been a while. It is the second of three
Speaker 3: films that we are taking another look at before they
Speaker 3: become officially eligible for the Pantheon. I believe it was
Speaker 3: producer Sam who nominated this as as a marathon movie,
Speaker 3: a former marathon titled It Bounds. He wants to be eligible,
Speaker 3: He wants it to be considered for the Pantheon. Nine
Speaker 3: total nominees is how we do it now. Six have
Speaker 3: been reviewed on the show, discussed in depth by the
Speaker 3: two of us, But then we have three that haven't.
Speaker 3: Maybe they've been talked about on the show before and
Speaker 3: it's twenty years history but not really been dug into
Speaker 3: by the two of us and Rashomon's one of those
Speaker 3: two films, and one of those other films was John
Speaker 3: Ford's How Green Was My Valley, But we took care
Speaker 3: of that on our last show, Josh, and I'm looking
Speaker 3: at that film spotting family Discord. I don't know, it's
Speaker 3: only a couple posts, but we seem to be kind
Speaker 3: of in the minority in terms of how much we
Speaker 3: enjoyed that film.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we just need a few more
Speaker 1: people to watch How Green Was My Valley. I know
Speaker 1: those who didn't quite go for it have seen it,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I was so heartened by your really enthusiastic
Speaker 1: response to it that I think there have to be
Speaker 1: others who would enjoy it quite as much. And it matters,
Speaker 1: right we put these Pantheon eligible films to a vote
Speaker 1: to decide which two. At the end of this process,
Speaker 1: in I don't know, maybe a month or so, we'll
Speaker 1: put it to a vote and see which two of
Speaker 1: these nine nominees actually get in. So, yeah, watch the
Speaker 1: movies that were actual discussing on the show. Heck, watch
Speaker 1: all nine if you want, if you have time and
Speaker 1: be an informed voter, and yeah, let us know what
Speaker 1: you think about how green was my value? If you've
Speaker 1: never seen it before, let us know what you think
Speaker 1: about Raschaman if you watch it a second or third
Speaker 1: time in preparation for our discussion next week, you can
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 3: Watch Raschoman on the Criterion Channel, also HBO Max and
Speaker 3: available on other platforms. Vod Our plan next week tying
Speaker 3: in with Raschoman is to share our top five unreliable narrators.
Speaker 3: Turns out, in the twenty plus year history of the show,
Speaker 3: we have done our top five movies with narrators. That
Speaker 3: was done in like the first year or two of
Speaker 3: film spotting, but we have never devoted a top five
Speaker 3: to unreliable narrators.
Speaker 1: I think it'll be good. Who would have thought there
Speaker 1: was still an obvious top five that we could tackle
Speaker 1: for a show. And can we have a quick on
Speaker 1: air production meeting? Yes? Clarification, okay, top five unreliable narrators?
Speaker 1: Are we choosing the actual narrators or are we choosing
Speaker 1: the films? So, because that really good question makes a
Speaker 1: distinction for which way I go, I don't have a
Speaker 1: preference necessarily. I have not started.
Speaker 3: Forming my list, so I have not faced this conundrum myself.
Speaker 3: But my initial response Josh is this is one of
Speaker 3: those cases where unreliable narrators is more fun and easy
Speaker 3: to say than unreliable narrator movies. But yeah, I think
Speaker 3: we're talking about the movies, not the narrators. Okay, that's
Speaker 3: that's how I think. But I also know that, like
Speaker 3: Sam's probably now listening to this, going, no, you're wrong, Adam,
Speaker 3: of course, it's the characters that are more interesting, and
Speaker 3: we'll change our mind by the time we actually record
Speaker 3: the next shows.
Speaker 1: What do you think it's very possible? I think my
Speaker 1: instinct was to think of it the same way you did,
Speaker 1: because yes, we have many top fives where you just
Speaker 1: don't tag movies on the end. I also think I
Speaker 1: like the freedom of that, because there's no reason you
Speaker 1: can't choose a top five unreliable narrator movie and focus
Speaker 1: on the actual narrator. Whereas, if we say it has
Speaker 1: to be your the narrator we're choosing, that's kind of
Speaker 1: like what you have to you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's almost like a character versus movie. And I think
Speaker 1: what might be more interesting for a list like this
Speaker 1: is to talk about how the movies as a whole
Speaker 1: are unreliable. Agree, and the narrator is obviously the most
Speaker 1: crucial part of that. But you know, maybe the narrator
Speaker 1: is unreliable in a different way that the movie is unreliable,
Speaker 1: and so there's just more places to go.
Speaker 3: Maybe I initially agree, and I think that's how we
Speaker 3: should approach it.
Speaker 1: Let's we will, we will.
Speaker 3: Let's get our supposal to say, yeah, okay, we'll plan
Speaker 3: on that. You can send your initial picks to feedback
Speaker 3: at film spotting dot net, and you know, do it,
Speaker 3: do it soon, because we will take any help that
Speaker 3: we can get. In two weeks the weekend right before
Speaker 3: the Oscars, we will drop our Oscar special with Michael Phillips.
Speaker 3: Who will win, who should win, and who should have
Speaker 3: been nominated? You get a say in all of this too.
Speaker 3: You can go to film spotting dot net right now
Speaker 3: and submit your official Film Spotting Ranked Choice Best Picture ballot.
Speaker 3: It is right there, a link on the main page.
Speaker 3: We will announce the winner with all due solemnity on
Speaker 3: that Oscars special. Have you submitted yours?
Speaker 1: Josh? I have not. No, Okay, I wait till the
Speaker 1: last one I have neither.
Speaker 3: You wait, you wait until the end Procrastinator.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: To get a glimpse of what we have planned for
Speaker 3: future episodes, you can go to film Spotting dot Net
Speaker 3: and click on episodes right there at the top of
Speaker 3: the page.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of nineties nostalgia going on at
Speaker 1: at our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, Looking at
Speaker 1: Some was present via its past. It's their pop classics pairing,
Speaker 1: so they first delved into Boz Luhrmann's Romeo plus Juliet
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. Man, I think I kind of want
Speaker 1: to watch that again now after hearing their discussion. Of course,
Speaker 1: they're pairing this with Wathering Heights, which we reviewed recently
Speaker 1: on the show. It's kind of an inspired pairing, especially
Speaker 1: if you've seen Weathering Heights. So yeah, I've enjoyed that
Speaker 1: first episode. The Wathering Heights one is out now, so
Speaker 1: you can listen to these back to back if you
Speaker 1: so choose. New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop
Speaker 1: every Tuesday and you can find them wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Okay, time now for Massacre Theater, where Adam
Speaker 1: and I perform a scene and you get a chance
Speaker 1: to win a Film Spotting prize. Last time we mascreed
Speaker 1: this scene.
Speaker 2: I can't do this.
Speaker 1: Sure you come there. That's my queen right here we go.
Speaker 2: I'm not wanting to get I want to stay single
Speaker 2: and let my hair from the wind.
Speaker 1: Does I ride through the glen firing odors into the sunset.
Speaker 1: That was Billy Connelly and Ama Thompson in twenty twelve's Brave,
Speaker 1: written by Mark andrews Irene Metchi, Steve Purcell and Brenda Chapman,
Speaker 1: directed by Chapman and andrews Our Massacre of that scene
Speaker 1: was part of our train spotting at thirty show. We
Speaker 1: also shared our Pantheon nominees on that episode, and there's
Speaker 1: always a tie in. So why that scene from Brave.
Speaker 3: Here's Daniel Fuguccio in Blue Mountains that's west of Sydney, Australia.
Speaker 3: Sounds lovely, he says, been a listener and supporter at
Speaker 3: one stage. I was labeled beyond platinum. Thank you Daniel
Speaker 3: for twenty odd years, and I think this may be
Speaker 3: the first time I've entered Massacre theater. I think it
Speaker 3: is Eleanor, Emma Thompson and Ferguson. Billy Connolly, You're right
Speaker 3: in Disney. Pixar's Brave. They are discussing their daughter Meredith
Speaker 3: Kelly McDonald and there's your Train Spotting link, fierce independent streak.
Speaker 3: The funny thing is I watched this just two days
Speaker 3: ago as I decided I wanted to go back to
Speaker 3: my favorite Pixar films, and this is one of my favorite.
Speaker 1: All Right, nice taste, Daniel. Here's Josh Glover from West Fargo,
Speaker 1: North Dakota. Tie ins include Kevin McKidd, who is in
Speaker 1: both films as Tommy and Train Spotting and the voice
Speaker 1: of Lord mcguffin and Brave. I didn't Yeah, we knew that.
Speaker 1: Gosh huh voiced? Did you know this one, Adam? I'm
Speaker 1: sure you did. McKidd also voiced the character of Fenn
Speaker 1: Rau in the Star Wars Rebels series, which features the
Speaker 1: final final battle between Darth Maul and one Obi Wan Kenobi, who,
Speaker 1: while not voiced by him there, was played in the
Speaker 1: live action pre boots of the Star Wars the Clone
Speaker 1: Wars series by Ewan McGregor, who is also in Train Spotty.
Speaker 1: Also maybe because I'm a big train I'm a big
Speaker 1: Rebels guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's my favorite of all the series.
Speaker 1: I was good go by, but sorry to not allow
Speaker 1: you space to say that. Also, Josh continues, maybe because
Speaker 1: both Train Spotting and Brave are set in Scottland, and
Speaker 1: Kelly McDonald is in both as Diane and the voice
Speaker 1: of Mereda, the name of which was changed to Carla
Speaker 1: Jean in the homage to her for No Country for
Speaker 1: Old Men character, That is correct.
Speaker 3: Here's Dan Wright in Saint Louis. He says, Josh, great
Speaker 3: accent work this week. It ends with the question mark
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's supposed to be an
Speaker 1: exclamation point like in Canada. Yeah, it's a typo.
Speaker 3: This week's Masacar Theater is Pixar's Brave, a movie I
Speaker 3: loved when I saw in the theater and have not
Speaker 3: put much thought into it. Sense it might be time
Speaker 3: for a revisit. Well, there you go, Like Daniel, why
Speaker 3: not one.
Speaker 1: More common here from Dylan dom and Blair Nebraska. It's
Speaker 1: Josh's beloved and boring. Sorry, Josh, brave ouch. I'd love
Speaker 1: to hear Joshua Adam take on Kelly McDonald's No Country
Speaker 1: for Old Men accent next.
Speaker 3: That might be more painful than Scottish West Texas.
Speaker 1: Someday, Dylan, you might, you might get your dream.
Speaker 3: All right, the hat pretty brimming, Josh, This one, I
Speaker 3: guess was fairly easy. Go ahead, reach into it and
Speaker 3: pick out this week's winner.
Speaker 1: Our winner is Abby from Denton, Texas.
Speaker 3: I love that Abby won, Josh, because, if I'm remembering
Speaker 3: her email correctly, she's actually this this may anger some people.
Speaker 3: She's actually not really a Film Spotting listener. It's her
Speaker 3: husband who listens to the show. She just likes to
Speaker 3: listen to Massacre Theater.
Speaker 1: She's a listener to the show.
Speaker 3: Then I guess that counts right, and she she won
Speaker 3: her husband a prize in this case, come on.
Speaker 1: It works. You're legit. You're legit.
Speaker 3: Congrats Abby and Abby's husband. You can email Feedback at
Speaker 3: film spotting dot net to claim your prize, film Spotting
Speaker 3: tote bag, film Spotting t shirt, or a trial membership
Speaker 3: to the Film Spotting Family.
Speaker 1: With the symbol.
Speaker 2: Would the wou would The was Why do you say that?
Speaker 1: Why do you?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: You said say it like I said.
Speaker 3: We move on to this week's edition of Massacre Theater,
Speaker 3: and I guess I have to well, I have to
Speaker 3: hate Sam because he's gonna make me sing, which is
Speaker 3: something I can't do at all. Everyone's going to hear
Speaker 3: that in a moment, Josh. But this is the first
Speaker 3: opportunity I get to to break out my brand new guitar.
Speaker 1: I just bought this. Whoa wow. Yeah, you know what,
Speaker 1: first performance you get to write it off as an expense.
Speaker 3: There you go, exactly, that's right. It is an electric guitar.
Speaker 3: I don't have it plugged in. I'm not going to
Speaker 3: play the acoustic because I want to play this. So
Speaker 3: it is a musical number here anything else.
Speaker 1: Not. Only am I distressed because I was literally kicked
Speaker 1: out of middle school choir for I'm gonna say sixty
Speaker 1: performance reasons and forty percent behavioral reasons. So really it's
Speaker 1: because I couldn't sing. So I have that hanging over
Speaker 1: my head. Also, the rehearsal process for MASCAR theater is
Speaker 1: usually Sam will suggests a scene, I'll watch it, Sure,
Speaker 1: we'll do that, and then just before we record it,
Speaker 1: we'll watch it again. Right, So I did watch this
Speaker 1: scene maybe eight ten hours ago. I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on with my VPN. I can't access it here
Speaker 1: in Scotland. The YouTube clip that Sam shared so I'm
Speaker 1: pretty much going in half blind, half blind with no
Speaker 1: sense of tune listeners enjoy.
Speaker 3: Enjoy is not the right word for this. I actually
Speaker 3: started off with the guitar. So you're going to give
Speaker 3: me the action. I am as ready as I am
Speaker 3: going to be Josh and.
Speaker 1: Action. Whoa whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa? What do you singing? There?
Speaker 1: You got the root? And sing? You singing the root? No? Uh? Singing?
Speaker 3: Everybody's gonna sing.
Speaker 1: Didn't I give you a sixth? I don't think so?
Speaker 1: Can you give me a sixth? There? Can you sing
Speaker 1: a sixth? Everybody's gonna sing?
Speaker 3: No, everybody's gonna sing sing.
Speaker 1: Sure, let's try it again? One, two, three? Huh? Can
Speaker 1: I say what? I'm sorry? Go ahead? No, you got
Speaker 1: a problem on the bridge?
Speaker 3: No, I was gonna Can I switch? Can I change
Speaker 3: out of my costume?
Speaker 1: Costume? Are you hot? Yeah?
Speaker 3: But also, I mean I've been wearing it for a month.
Speaker 1: You know the policy we all gotta wear. We all
Speaker 1: gotta wear the uniform until we're ready to take it off.
Speaker 1: I think you're real close. I just don't think you're
Speaker 1: quite there yet. You did not sing that sixth? And
Speaker 1: I want to see you sing that sixth and.
Speaker 3: Scene as anyone out there, like listeners like Taylor Cole
Speaker 3: in the Chicago area, anyone out there is a music teacher.
Speaker 3: They all know that neither one of us came anywhere
Speaker 3: close to singing a sixth.
Speaker 1: I played the sixth. I don't even know what that means, So.
Speaker 3: I know what it means, and I played it, but
Speaker 3: neither of us sang it.
Speaker 1: So that that.
Speaker 3: Is it for this week's edition on Massacre Theater.
Speaker 1: If you know what film we mercifully survived.
Speaker 3: If you know what film we just massacred, email the
Speaker 3: movie's title, your name, and location to feedback at filmspotting
Speaker 3: dot net. The deadline is Monday, March ninth. We will
Speaker 3: select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and
Speaker 3: announce it in a couple of weeks. But honestly, Josh,
Speaker 3: everyone got to hear that they're all the winners.
Speaker 1: Sure, and that's the show. Yeah, we killed the show.
Speaker 3: I love it when we end with these kind of numbers,
Speaker 3: You know, the mascer Theater are just like, there's nowhere
Speaker 3: to go.
Speaker 1: Just mean it for some reason. If after that you
Speaker 1: want to connect with the show on social media. I
Speaker 1: guess you could find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterbox, YouTube.
Speaker 1: He's at film Spotting. I promise I won't sing at
Speaker 1: you on my social channels. I'm at Larson on film.
Speaker 1: Film Spotting is independently produced and listener supported. You can
Speaker 1: support the show by joining the film Spotting Family at
Speaker 1: filmspottingfamily dot com. That way you'll be able to listen
Speaker 1: early and ad free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter,
Speaker 1: monthly bonus episodes, and access to the entire show archive.
Speaker 1: For show t shirts another merch go to film spotting
Speaker 1: dot net slash shop.
Speaker 3: In the archive that Film Spotting archive, we have some
Speaker 3: Catherine O'Hara conversations, though you have to go way back.
Speaker 3: Sam has noted where the wild Things are episode two
Speaker 3: seventy eight, Away we go. Yes, she was in that
Speaker 3: episode two sixty one, and Sam swears we reviewed for
Speaker 3: your consideration in two thousand and six. He might be right,
Speaker 3: but he says he can't find it in the Film
Speaker 3: Spotting Guide to the archives and now listener Bill McLaughlin
Speaker 3: is just going to be off in a wild goose chase.
Speaker 3: He's going to think it's something wrong. I'm not sure
Speaker 3: we reviewed it, so I don't know. We'll get some
Speaker 3: detectives on the case. In limited release, Pillion is expanding.
Speaker 3: I'm definitely hoping to catch up with that one. Jessica
Speaker 3: Chastain is a socialite engaged in a dangerous affair with
Speaker 3: the Mexican ballet dancer Okay in Michelle Franco's class critique Dreams.
Speaker 3: Werner Hertzog has a new documentary, How Josh Ghost Elephants?
Speaker 1: How about that?
Speaker 3: I'm intrigued in wide release Scream seven. If I had said,
Speaker 3: if you weren't looking at the page in front of you,
Speaker 3: and I had said, Josh, there's a new Scream movie
Speaker 3: coming out. What number do you think goes on appends
Speaker 3: to the end of it, what would you have said?
Speaker 1: Would you have known it was seven? I would have
Speaker 1: guessed six or seven. I am, up to this point
Speaker 1: Adam a Scream completist. So I'm gonna need I'm gonna
Speaker 1: need to see this and probably will because the last
Speaker 1: two I think there's two are the most you know,
Speaker 1: not like the reimagined ones. They've been interesting. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say they've been anything like the first film, but they've
Speaker 1: been interesting. So so yeah, I might have to catch
Speaker 1: up with this and report back. Okay.
Speaker 3: Also available vod you can see or streaming you can
Speaker 3: see on Prime. Paul McCartney Man on the Run the
Speaker 3: latest documentary from Morgan Neville, and if you haven't heard
Speaker 3: it already, check out the Film Spotting feed and hear
Speaker 3: my conversation with the director Morgan Neville. Next week on
Speaker 3: the show, we will have a discussion for our Pantheon
Speaker 3: project of Akira Kurasawa's renown Rascho Man, and we will
Speaker 3: share our top five unreliable narrators.
Speaker 1: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Deso and Sam
Speaker 1: Van Hagren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.
Speaker 1: Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone
Speaker 1: at wb easy Chicago. More information is available at wbeazy
Speaker 1: dot org for Film Spotting. I'm Josh Larson and.
Speaker 3: I'm Medam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 4: This conversation can serve no purpose us anymore. Good Bye.