Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker.
Speaker 1: As today it is MLK Day, and you know, I
Speaker 1: will say this first of all, like how fast is
Speaker 1: January going? It blows my mind because I just feel
Speaker 1: like we're just getting started with the new year, and
Speaker 1: it's like we're already in the third week. Nonetheless, folks,
Speaker 1: MLK Day is an obnoxious day in America. It's the
Speaker 1: day when Republicans and white supremaists love to pull out
Speaker 1: the one or two quotes plucked perfectly from Martin Luther
Speaker 1: King's life, a man that they had assassinated, and talk
Speaker 1: about upholding you know, King's dream and all of those things,
Speaker 1: knowing good, goddamn well that for those Octanagerians, Martin Luther
Speaker 1: King should still be alive. But because of hateful, vindictive
Speaker 1: racist people like them, like the MAGA supremacists, he is not.
Speaker 1: And everything that their party is working to do is
Speaker 1: to absolutely go against every single thing that that man fought,
Speaker 1: was jailed for, beaten for, and eventually was murdered for.
Speaker 1: You know, people forget that just because you see pictures
Speaker 1: which I believe now have been purposely made to be
Speaker 1: black and white. We had color photographs, folks. Ruby Bridges
Speaker 1: is sixty five years old, the little girl who integrated
Speaker 1: schools after Brown versus the Board of Education. She's sixty
Speaker 1: five years old. So when you're looking at the Mitch McConnell's,
Speaker 1: the Joe Biden's, the Donald Trumps, looking at these people
Speaker 1: that are in their eighties, understand that Martin Luther King,
Speaker 1: on top of many many black leaders that were resistance fighters,
Speaker 1: didn't make it out of their teens, of their twenties,
Speaker 1: of their thirties, or saw their forties. And had it
Speaker 1: not been for this blood soaked hate that they are
Speaker 1: right now stirring and stewing in, these would be our
Speaker 1: elder statesman. And so I offer that today because I
Speaker 1: believe that we are in the fight for our lives.
Speaker 1: I can't overstate it enough. It isn't about parties, it
Speaker 1: isn't about people. It is about freedom, It is about liberty,
Speaker 1: It is about justice, It is about dignity. It is
Speaker 1: about hope. And so I hope as today that you
Speaker 1: reflect on this day off, if you are lucky enough
Speaker 1: and privileged enough to have it, that you think about
Speaker 1: what your role in response is in this movement, because
Speaker 1: that is what we are trying to create, a movement
Speaker 1: that is not about again a party or a man,
Speaker 1: but about our collective belief and the possibility of different
Speaker 1: people from different groups and communities and religions and genders
Speaker 1: and gender identities and orientations being able to live side
Speaker 1: by side, being able to coexist peacefully, not from a
Speaker 1: place of tolerating one another, not even from a place
Speaker 1: of accepting one another, but from a place of celebrating
Speaker 1: one another. Because the more I learn, the more open
Speaker 1: my heart is, the more human I am, and the
Speaker 1: more that I see our faiths intertwined. So you're suffering
Speaker 1: is my suffering. My win is your win. And think
Speaker 1: about how we are going to advance that cause, how
Speaker 1: we are going to expand that movement. Coming up next, friends,
Speaker 1: my conversation with Sky Perriman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward.
Speaker 1: Democracy Forward is a leading the legal fight against the
Speaker 1: extremist policies you've seen in the headlines recently, from defending
Speaker 1: President Biden's student alone forgiveness program to keeping medication abortion available.
Speaker 1: I can think of no better conversation to have today.
Speaker 1: Than this one, which indeed was pre recorded, but really
Speaker 1: important and salient about why the legal fight is just
Speaker 1: as important for us as we understand and our own
Speaker 1: fight and part in this movement for justice. Folks, I
Speaker 1: am very excited to welcome back to wok F Daily,
Speaker 1: Sky Perryman, who is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward.
Speaker 1: You know when I even just the name makes me
Speaker 1: happy because I need people that want to move democracy forward,
Speaker 1: and you all, as a national legal organization try and
Speaker 1: advance democracy, which I can only imagine in this climate
Speaker 1: where every case, whether it's at the state level federal level,
Speaker 1: is just so consequential. So Sky, first give us you
Speaker 1: know your your thoughts on twenty twenty three the Eagle
Speaker 1: News the fight that we had and are having around
Speaker 1: holding on to our democracy.
Speaker 2: I think it was a really consequential year. I agree
Speaker 2: with you there. I mean, look, the year started off
Speaker 2: with litigation that extremists had filed in Texas late last
Speaker 2: year seeking to remove the approval of a reproductive health
Speaker 2: medication mif of pristone, which is known by some by
Speaker 2: the abortion pill, questioning FDA's authority. We had extremist groups
Speaker 2: that were seeking to promote the big lie and the
Speaker 2: independent theory of state legislatures to suppress votes, seeking to
Speaker 2: bring their cases to the Supreme Court. A range of
Speaker 2: extremist organizations, including led by individuals who served in the
Speaker 2: prior administration, that sought to roll back racial equity measures
Speaker 2: for higher education at the Supreme Court and then throughout
Speaker 2: the country, we saw while voters are showing up in
Speaker 2: record numbers voting on issues, voting in states like Ohio
Speaker 2: to protect abord access, to protect healthcare access, while people
Speaker 2: are trying to make their voices heard in ideologically and
Speaker 2: geographically diverse areas of the country. These are not all
Speaker 2: places that you might think are the bastion of every
Speaker 2: progressive policy. You have people of many different views, but
Speaker 2: all coming together to say, this is democracy, this is
Speaker 2: about people's rights. We may disagree that there's some foundational
Speaker 2: things here, and at the same time, we have state
Speaker 2: attorneys general and local officials and others throughout the country
Speaker 2: really seeking to undermine the ability of people to vote
Speaker 2: and to make their voices heard. And so I think
Speaker 2: we saw some triumphs for democracy in this last year.
Speaker 2: The voters in Ohio showing up against many attempts to
Speaker 2: mislead on that ballot, to provide misinformation, and yet they
Speaker 2: showed up and voted overwhelmingly to protect reproductive freedom for all.
Speaker 2: So I think we saw some things like that that
Speaker 2: are really encouraging. The Supreme Court did not endorse this
Speaker 2: extreme independent theory of the state legislature. The Supreme Court
Speaker 2: did stay, which means, you know, pause this extremist ruling
Speaker 2: out of Texas that would have removed approval for medication
Speaker 2: abortion with myth of christone. But then at the same time,
Speaker 2: I think we saw really what the stakes are because
Speaker 2: there were a number of places where there was a
Speaker 2: rollback of rights on racial equity in higher education. A
Speaker 2: number of states continued to ban or otherwise restrict abortion
Speaker 2: access even though we know that the vast majority of
Speaker 2: people in this country support it. And we're seeing this
Speaker 2: constellation of extremist, far right groups really seeking to push
Speaker 2: their views even though they don't represent the majority of people.
Speaker 2: So I think twenty twenty three showed a lot of
Speaker 2: what's at stake, and there were some good wins, but
Speaker 2: there were some really unfortunate losses, and we're learning, you know,
Speaker 2: democracy has never been a given and it's only as
Speaker 2: good as those of us that are going to do
Speaker 2: the work to continue it, and that that works for
Speaker 2: all of us.
Speaker 1: You know, Sky, thank you for laying out that picture,
Speaker 1: because I think that you're right. We did see some wins,
Speaker 1: but we actually saw some devastating losses. Right at the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court with the affirmative Action case. We saw, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm in New York and one hundred year old ban
Speaker 1: on guns was overturned, you know, in a densely populated
Speaker 1: city and area. Were watching, and I love the imagery
Speaker 1: that you conjured by saying a constellation of these right
Speaker 1: wing groups that are putting their clause, their stamp all
Speaker 1: over this country. And I wonder, you know, where I
Speaker 1: am concerned is that the courts are have always been
Speaker 1: our pathway to liberation in this country for groups that
Speaker 1: have been traditionally marginalized. We also know that during the
Speaker 1: Trump administration, that man placed hundreds of right wing judges
Speaker 1: sprinkling them all over the country, in some instances to
Speaker 1: protect himself and in other instances to further the cause
Speaker 1: of these right wing groups. And so when you look
Speaker 1: right now at the comparison in terms of what the
Speaker 1: Biden administration has been able to do around judgeships and
Speaker 1: how you know, this Department of Justice has been taking
Speaker 1: on a kind of web you know, of of of
Speaker 1: attempts to try and overturn a lot of decisions that
Speaker 1: have been made or bring you know, legal cases. How
Speaker 1: confident are you in the courts still being the pathway
Speaker 1: to not even holding democracy? I won't even talk about
Speaker 1: expanding it.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. The courts are both a frontline
Speaker 2: in the battle for democracy, whether they are good or
Speaker 2: whether they are ill, whether they are promoting the rights
Speaker 2: of people, which is what the courts are supposed to
Speaker 2: do in a democracy, or whether they are rolling back
Speaker 2: the rights at the invitation of far right and extremist groups.
Speaker 2: The courts are where the fight is in many cases,
Speaker 2: I mean communities are too, but the court that is
Speaker 2: the place that the far right is going to seek
Speaker 2: to go to try to win battles that they cannot
Speaker 2: win among the vast majority of people, and it is
Speaker 2: the place that we all must be At the same time,
Speaker 2: it is also a great backstop and last resort we
Speaker 2: see the courts deliver for people even amidst some of
Speaker 2: the trends that you have cited and devastating things that
Speaker 2: I forgot. And when you first asked me the question,
Speaker 2: I mean student loan debt. I was just reading about
Speaker 2: how people are not able to afford their holiday expenses
Speaker 2: because of the student loan payments that are coming back.
Speaker 2: And of course the Supreme Court stopped the President's initiative
Speaker 2: to relieve student debt, and economic pressures are rising out
Speaker 2: of the pandemic, which was something that we represented a
Speaker 2: range of legal scholars it said was completely lawful and appropriate,
Speaker 2: but the Supreme Court disagreed. So I think at the
Speaker 2: same time, the courts are a backstop. I mean this
Speaker 2: year in Arkansas, we saw Governor Huckabee Sanders sign a
Speaker 2: law that was going to criminalize librarians. Our team took
Speaker 2: that law of court on behalf of librarians and others
Speaker 2: in the state and alongside a broad coalition, and we
Speaker 2: want a court order that is temporarily blocking that that
Speaker 2: unlawful violation of the First Amendment and protecting libraries and
Speaker 2: librarians in Arkansas. And so we see in our work
Speaker 2: every day how the courts are still important and can
Speaker 2: serve a very protective purpose for democracy. But we also
Speaker 2: see how they're a place where the fights really are
Speaker 2: and where there is a coordinated attempt to misuse our
Speaker 2: courts to have them do something other than justice, to
Speaker 2: have them roll back the rights of people. And so
Speaker 2: I think my takeaway is that regardless of whether you
Speaker 2: believe in change the courts or not, you've got to
Speaker 2: be there because that's where these fights are, and that's
Speaker 2: where democracy is it's arising in these case and I
Speaker 2: think there is some reason to be optimistic. We've seen
Speaker 2: a number of judges confirmed, federal judges confirmed that reflect
Speaker 2: the diversity, the rich diversity and strength of our diversity
Speaker 2: as a country. We see judges in some of our
Speaker 2: work that we're appointed by individuals who might not agree
Speaker 2: with an expansive vision of civil rights or of constitutional rights,
Speaker 2: but nevertheless that apply the rule of law. And then
Speaker 2: we also see extremists like what we've seen in Texas
Speaker 2: and what we've seen in a number of places, where
Speaker 2: there are judges actively rolling back the rights of people
Speaker 2: at the invitation of these groups. And it's really important
Speaker 2: that we be there with the full power of the
Speaker 2: American people and the communities that are impacted, to use
Speaker 2: our voice to push back.
Speaker 1: I mean, Texas has been a petri dish of the
Speaker 1: Republican extreme US for for quite some time. But their
Speaker 1: recent headlines. First it was you know, the the the
Speaker 1: buoys that they wanted to put out to like physically
Speaker 1: harm migrants that are trying to cross. Then it was,
Speaker 1: you know, most recently the case of the of the
Speaker 1: woman that needed to flee the state because the Texas
Speaker 1: Supreme Court denied her and an abortion with a with
Speaker 1: a fetus that was unviable. You know, now it is
Speaker 1: it is uh, the governors have now the governor has
Speaker 1: now said that it is okay for law enforcement to
Speaker 1: arrest migrants or or those rather that they suspect of
Speaker 1: being migrants. And so when we see these things taking place,
Speaker 1: and then I want to add on top of that,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump uh most recently saying that he's going to
Speaker 1: be a dictator on day one. Uh most recently saying that,
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to take back the White House
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four and then will negotiate afterwards because
Speaker 1: I'm owed, you know, years, and then I will weaponize
Speaker 1: and be your retribution. Do you think that people understand
Speaker 1: the stakes that we are that we are up against
Speaker 1: that democracy held and is holding on by a thread
Speaker 1: right now. But that if if a Donald Trump or
Speaker 1: any frankly body word to take on outside of a
Speaker 1: Democrat this election in twenty twenty four, that we don't
Speaker 1: have the backstops anymore. We don't have the fall safes
Speaker 1: or the guard rails. Do people? Do you feel like
Speaker 1: people recognize what is at stake?
Speaker 2: We have to hope they do. I mean, look, democracy
Speaker 2: did hold in many ways because of the work that
Speaker 2: people like you and your community and the listeners that
Speaker 2: tune into your show, because of the work that legal
Speaker 2: organizations and other advocates did in the prior administration. But
Speaker 2: people lost out there. I mean, it held on, but
Speaker 2: as you said, it held on by a thread. And
Speaker 2: we have a number of communities in this country that
Speaker 2: were worse off after the prior administration, after their prior
Speaker 2: administration's assault on democracy. And we have a number of
Speaker 2: communities in this country that are worse off now that
Speaker 2: we have extremist legal organizations seeking to misuse our courts
Speaker 2: to roll back the rights of people, to deprive people
Speaker 2: of basic human rights and civil rights. And so I
Speaker 2: think they're really high stakes and One of the things
Speaker 2: we're focused on at Democracy Forward is making sure that
Speaker 2: people know that we all have a role to play here.
Speaker 2: I saw a depiction the other day of a picture
Speaker 2: that had a single individual saying, you know, I'm a
Speaker 2: single individual, what am I supposed to do here? And
Speaker 2: then there was one that six million. You know, we're
Speaker 2: all single individuals, and it's our collective power in coming
Speaker 2: together that can really be important in this time in
Speaker 2: demanding that our government work for all people, that the
Speaker 2: people that are entrusted to represent us, the people that
Speaker 2: are entrusted to be interpreting our constitution and our laws
Speaker 2: in our courts, that they believe in democracy and want
Speaker 2: to move it forward. A lot of what we're doing
Speaker 2: at Democracy Forward as we look to twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: is not only fighting the fights of today. And by
Speaker 2: the way, we were representing the nation's medical community in
Speaker 2: the Texas Supreme Court last weekend in Kate Cox's case,
Speaker 2: which is a really tragic case and shows you what's
Speaker 2: at stake here for so many families and people across
Speaker 2: the country. But we're going to take on those fights,
Speaker 2: but we're also looking at what needs to be done
Speaker 2: when you have public reports coming out on an almost
Speaker 2: weekly basis about quote, shadow governments that are being formed
Speaker 2: to undermine the independence of our civil so servius, to
Speaker 2: roll back lawful policies that help protect people, to politicize
Speaker 2: our institutions, and so there's a lot of that work
Speaker 2: that needs to be happening to really understand the stakes
Speaker 2: and communicate about that. And so I'm really happy that
Speaker 2: you're having me on today for us to have this conversation,
Speaker 2: but also that your listeners, hopefully as they're reflecting on
Speaker 2: the end of twenty twenty three in the beginning of
Speaker 2: twenty four, that we can really look together ahead and
Speaker 2: see what we need to do, because it is the
Speaker 2: responsibility of all of us to be informed to show up.
Speaker 2: But think about individual people in Ohio might not have
Speaker 2: thought they had the power, and they have won a
Speaker 2: right for people in that state that many thought was
Speaker 2: impossible because of the collective power that people can build.
Speaker 2: So I do believe that if we come together when
Speaker 2: we fight, we know that democracy will win. That people
Speaker 2: have to have the fight in them.
Speaker 1: What are you at democracy forward? Paying attention to what
Speaker 1: is on your radar twenty twenty four in terms of
Speaker 1: legal cases that you are on that you are going
Speaker 1: to be defending, like what is what's on your radar?
Speaker 2: Well at the Supreme Court, of course, there are a
Speaker 2: number of cases that the Court is hearing this term
Speaker 2: that could really radically alter the way that government functions
Speaker 2: and its ability to function for people in our country.
Speaker 2: There are a variety of cases in a category of
Speaker 2: law called administrative law, which is really how federal agencies
Speaker 2: are able to implement policies that Congress passes to help people,
Speaker 2: and the extremists and far right legal movements are seeking
Speaker 2: to undermine the ability of government to work for people.
Speaker 2: So we're weighing in and a lot of those cases
Speaker 2: on behalf of small businesses, and on behalf of scholars,
Speaker 2: and on behalf of many folks that have a stake,
Speaker 2: and we'll be watching those a lot. Of course, given
Speaker 2: the stakes of the twenty twenty four election, We'll be
Speaker 2: watching activity and communities throughout the country where there will
Speaker 2: be efforts to suppress votes, efforts to try to keep
Speaker 2: people from participating in the political process, and where there
Speaker 2: is a need, you will find us there. You will
Speaker 2: find us supporting organizations that will be there. And then
Speaker 2: of course We represent the generic manufacturer of mythipristom, which
Speaker 2: is the abortion pill, and it's the majority of the market,
Speaker 2: and the Supreme Court just last week has agreed to
Speaker 2: hear to get again here a case it is a
Speaker 2: resident of Texas, and so we'll be on the front
Speaker 2: lines of that fight as well as fighting against state
Speaker 2: laws that are seeking to override the federal government's authority
Speaker 2: to regulate medication abortion and make it available to all people.
Speaker 2: You know, there's no shortage of work in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: but I think really focusing on how we make sure
Speaker 2: that people are empowered to participate in their government, to
Speaker 2: show up, to show up for their communities, to show
Speaker 2: up for democracy. We're going to be really focused on that.
Speaker 2: And then we're also going to folks us on a
Speaker 2: lot of these legal fights.
Speaker 1: And last question for you. You know you mentioned that
Speaker 1: you know the individual you know, recognizing that they have power,
Speaker 1: and as a collective we have more powered them. We know,
Speaker 1: what can people that are listening to this show do?
Speaker 1: How can they get involved with democracy forward? How can
Speaker 1: they offer support? Please?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, let me say, I think if
Speaker 2: if we in twenty twenty four, if every day we
Speaker 2: woke up, or maybe not even every day, once a week,
Speaker 2: we ask that question of ourselves and of our families
Speaker 2: and of our communities. I think democracy would be in
Speaker 2: a great place at the end of next year, and
Speaker 2: so I think one is we've got to ask that question,
Speaker 2: what can we do for us? Specifically, I would encourage
Speaker 2: our listeners to go to Democracyforward dot org, to sign
Speaker 2: up to get our newsletter, to follow us on social media.
Speaker 2: We have a lot of opportunities for people to get involved.
Speaker 2: We will be around the country this year. We're going
Speaker 2: to be in Tennessee doing some work. We're going to
Speaker 2: be in Texas, We'll be at south By Southwest. You know,
Speaker 2: we'll be around the country. We'd love to connect with
Speaker 2: you when we're in your community. But also you can
Speaker 2: get in touch with us through our work and stay
Speaker 2: informed about these fights, and we really need that in
Speaker 2: the days ahead. But even more broadly, I think people
Speaker 2: need to reflect on democracy is about all of us,
Speaker 2: and it's about a way of life, and it's about
Speaker 2: an affirmation that it's people need to be able to
Speaker 2: pursue their happiness and to pursue their dreams here in
Speaker 2: a country, and we need a country that creates the
Speaker 2: conditions for that. And so whether you go and get
Speaker 2: a public library card and start supporting your public library,
Speaker 2: whether you start supporting a local community effort that's seeking
Speaker 2: to inform people about efforts, whether you go buy a
Speaker 2: subscription to a reputable news source and pay for some
Speaker 2: of that content that's created that's fighting misinformation. I think
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things we can do in our
Speaker 2: daily lives. You don't have to be a lawyer, you
Speaker 2: don't have to consider yourself an advocate an activist. There's
Speaker 2: so much that we can do. We certainly need to
Speaker 2: vote and make a plan and get our friends to
Speaker 2: make a plan, but there's a lot that we can
Speaker 2: do in our daily lives, from supporting our libraries to
Speaker 2: supporting our communities, showing up at a school board meeting
Speaker 2: and listening. I mean, we have extreamists that are infiltrating
Speaker 2: these school board meetings and we're on the front lines
Speaker 2: with parents and teachers all across the country. That's another
Speaker 2: thing we're going to be doing in twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: on these fights. You know, show up, even if you
Speaker 2: don't have a kid in the school, this is your
Speaker 2: community and this is what's happening, and so I think
Speaker 2: that there's a real power in that. We've seen that
Speaker 2: throughout this country's history, we have seen times of course,
Speaker 2: the democracy has not delivered for people, for all people
Speaker 2: in this country because of systems and structures that we're
Speaker 2: trying to keep democracy from many folks, from women, from
Speaker 2: people of color, from people with low incomes, from folks
Speaker 2: that look different or spoke a different language, or worship differently.
Speaker 2: And so these are fights that this country has been
Speaker 2: through before, but they're high stakes and we've got to
Speaker 2: pay attention. So I would just encourage your listeners to
Speaker 2: ask that question every week, and then, of course, very simply,
Speaker 2: you can go to democracyforward dot org and if you
Speaker 2: sign up, you'll at least get a piece of mail
Speaker 2: once a week with a lot of great ways that
Speaker 2: you can get involved.
Speaker 1: Sky Perryman, thank you so much for the work that
Speaker 1: you are doing over at Democracy Forward, and you know,
Speaker 1: for amplifying the issues for fighting on behalf of all
Speaker 1: of us and on democracy. We appreciate you and hope
Speaker 1: to have more conversations with you and the coming year.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and thank you for everything that you do,
Speaker 2: and thanks to your community. I hope everyone has a
Speaker 2: good holiday and a RESTful and happy new Year. And
Speaker 2: we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
Speaker 1: Yes we do, Yes we do appreciate you. That is
Speaker 1: it for me today, dear friends on Woke a f
Speaker 1: as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Speaker 1: Get woke and stay