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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with

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Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker.

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Speaker 1: As today it is MLK Day, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: will say this first of all, like how fast is

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Speaker 1: January going? It blows my mind because I just feel

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Speaker 1: like we're just getting started with the new year, and

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Speaker 1: it's like we're already in the third week. Nonetheless, folks,

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Speaker 1: MLK Day is an obnoxious day in America. It's the

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Speaker 1: day when Republicans and white supremaists love to pull out

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Speaker 1: the one or two quotes plucked perfectly from Martin Luther

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Speaker 1: King's life, a man that they had assassinated, and talk

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Speaker 1: about upholding you know, King's dream and all of those things,

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Speaker 1: knowing good, goddamn well that for those Octanagerians, Martin Luther

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Speaker 1: King should still be alive. But because of hateful, vindictive

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Speaker 1: racist people like them, like the MAGA supremacists, he is not.

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Speaker 1: And everything that their party is working to do is

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Speaker 1: to absolutely go against every single thing that that man fought,

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Speaker 1: was jailed for, beaten for, and eventually was murdered for.

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Speaker 1: You know, people forget that just because you see pictures

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Speaker 1: which I believe now have been purposely made to be

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Speaker 1: black and white. We had color photographs, folks. Ruby Bridges

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Speaker 1: is sixty five years old, the little girl who integrated

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Speaker 1: schools after Brown versus the Board of Education. She's sixty

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Speaker 1: five years old. So when you're looking at the Mitch McConnell's,

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Speaker 1: the Joe Biden's, the Donald Trumps, looking at these people

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Speaker 1: that are in their eighties, understand that Martin Luther King,

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Speaker 1: on top of many many black leaders that were resistance fighters,

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Speaker 1: didn't make it out of their teens, of their twenties,

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Speaker 1: of their thirties, or saw their forties. And had it

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Speaker 1: not been for this blood soaked hate that they are

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Speaker 1: right now stirring and stewing in, these would be our

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Speaker 1: elder statesman. And so I offer that today because I

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Speaker 1: believe that we are in the fight for our lives.

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Speaker 1: I can't overstate it enough. It isn't about parties, it

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Speaker 1: isn't about people. It is about freedom, It is about liberty,

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Speaker 1: It is about justice, It is about dignity. It is

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Speaker 1: about hope. And so I hope as today that you

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Speaker 1: reflect on this day off, if you are lucky enough

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Speaker 1: and privileged enough to have it, that you think about

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Speaker 1: what your role in response is in this movement, because

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Speaker 1: that is what we are trying to create, a movement

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Speaker 1: that is not about again a party or a man,

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Speaker 1: but about our collective belief and the possibility of different

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Speaker 1: people from different groups and communities and religions and genders

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Speaker 1: and gender identities and orientations being able to live side

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Speaker 1: by side, being able to coexist peacefully, not from a

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Speaker 1: place of tolerating one another, not even from a place

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Speaker 1: of accepting one another, but from a place of celebrating

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Speaker 1: one another. Because the more I learn, the more open

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Speaker 1: my heart is, the more human I am, and the

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Speaker 1: more that I see our faiths intertwined. So you're suffering

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Speaker 1: is my suffering. My win is your win. And think

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Speaker 1: about how we are going to advance that cause, how

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Speaker 1: we are going to expand that movement. Coming up next, friends,

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Speaker 1: my conversation with Sky Perriman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward.

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Speaker 1: Democracy Forward is a leading the legal fight against the

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Speaker 1: extremist policies you've seen in the headlines recently, from defending

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Speaker 1: President Biden's student alone forgiveness program to keeping medication abortion available.

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Speaker 1: I can think of no better conversation to have today.

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Speaker 1: Than this one, which indeed was pre recorded, but really

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Speaker 1: important and salient about why the legal fight is just

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Speaker 1: as important for us as we understand and our own

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Speaker 1: fight and part in this movement for justice. Folks, I

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Speaker 1: am very excited to welcome back to wok F Daily,

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Speaker 1: Sky Perryman, who is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward.

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Speaker 1: You know when I even just the name makes me

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Speaker 1: happy because I need people that want to move democracy forward,

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Speaker 1: and you all, as a national legal organization try and

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Speaker 1: advance democracy, which I can only imagine in this climate

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Speaker 1: where every case, whether it's at the state level federal level,

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Speaker 1: is just so consequential. So Sky, first give us you

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Speaker 1: know your your thoughts on twenty twenty three the Eagle

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Speaker 1: News the fight that we had and are having around

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Speaker 1: holding on to our democracy.

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Speaker 2: I think it was a really consequential year. I agree

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Speaker 2: with you there. I mean, look, the year started off

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Speaker 2: with litigation that extremists had filed in Texas late last

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Speaker 2: year seeking to remove the approval of a reproductive health

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Speaker 2: medication mif of pristone, which is known by some by

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Speaker 2: the abortion pill, questioning FDA's authority. We had extremist groups

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Speaker 2: that were seeking to promote the big lie and the

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Speaker 2: independent theory of state legislatures to suppress votes, seeking to

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Speaker 2: bring their cases to the Supreme Court. A range of

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Speaker 2: extremist organizations, including led by individuals who served in the

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Speaker 2: prior administration, that sought to roll back racial equity measures

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Speaker 2: for higher education at the Supreme Court and then throughout

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Speaker 2: the country, we saw while voters are showing up in

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Speaker 2: record numbers voting on issues, voting in states like Ohio

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Speaker 2: to protect abord access, to protect healthcare access, while people

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Speaker 2: are trying to make their voices heard in ideologically and

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Speaker 2: geographically diverse areas of the country. These are not all

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Speaker 2: places that you might think are the bastion of every

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Speaker 2: progressive policy. You have people of many different views, but

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Speaker 2: all coming together to say, this is democracy, this is

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Speaker 2: about people's rights. We may disagree that there's some foundational

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Speaker 2: things here, and at the same time, we have state

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Speaker 2: attorneys general and local officials and others throughout the country

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Speaker 2: really seeking to undermine the ability of people to vote

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Speaker 2: and to make their voices heard. And so I think

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Speaker 2: we saw some triumphs for democracy in this last year.

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Speaker 2: The voters in Ohio showing up against many attempts to

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Speaker 2: mislead on that ballot, to provide misinformation, and yet they

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Speaker 2: showed up and voted overwhelmingly to protect reproductive freedom for all.

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Speaker 2: So I think we saw some things like that that

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Speaker 2: are really encouraging. The Supreme Court did not endorse this

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Speaker 2: extreme independent theory of the state legislature. The Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: did stay, which means, you know, pause this extremist ruling

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Speaker 2: out of Texas that would have removed approval for medication

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Speaker 2: abortion with myth of christone. But then at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I think we saw really what the stakes are because

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Speaker 2: there were a number of places where there was a

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Speaker 2: rollback of rights on racial equity in higher education. A

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Speaker 2: number of states continued to ban or otherwise restrict abortion

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Speaker 2: access even though we know that the vast majority of

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Speaker 2: people in this country support it. And we're seeing this

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Speaker 2: constellation of extremist, far right groups really seeking to push

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Speaker 2: their views even though they don't represent the majority of people.

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Speaker 2: So I think twenty twenty three showed a lot of

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Speaker 2: what's at stake, and there were some good wins, but

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Speaker 2: there were some really unfortunate losses, and we're learning, you know,

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Speaker 2: democracy has never been a given and it's only as

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Speaker 2: good as those of us that are going to do

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Speaker 2: the work to continue it, and that that works for

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Speaker 2: all of us.

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Speaker 1: You know, Sky, thank you for laying out that picture,

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Speaker 1: because I think that you're right. We did see some wins,

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Speaker 1: but we actually saw some devastating losses. Right at the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court with the affirmative Action case. We saw, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm in New York and one hundred year old ban

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Speaker 1: on guns was overturned, you know, in a densely populated

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Speaker 1: city and area. Were watching, and I love the imagery

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Speaker 1: that you conjured by saying a constellation of these right

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Speaker 1: wing groups that are putting their clause, their stamp all

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Speaker 1: over this country. And I wonder, you know, where I

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Speaker 1: am concerned is that the courts are have always been

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Speaker 1: our pathway to liberation in this country for groups that

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Speaker 1: have been traditionally marginalized. We also know that during the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, that man placed hundreds of right wing judges

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Speaker 1: sprinkling them all over the country, in some instances to

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Speaker 1: protect himself and in other instances to further the cause

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Speaker 1: of these right wing groups. And so when you look

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Speaker 1: right now at the comparison in terms of what the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration has been able to do around judgeships and

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Speaker 1: how you know, this Department of Justice has been taking

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Speaker 1: on a kind of web you know, of of of

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Speaker 1: attempts to try and overturn a lot of decisions that

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Speaker 1: have been made or bring you know, legal cases. How

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Speaker 1: confident are you in the courts still being the pathway

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Speaker 1: to not even holding democracy? I won't even talk about

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Speaker 1: expanding it.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. The courts are both a frontline

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Speaker 2: in the battle for democracy, whether they are good or

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Speaker 2: whether they are ill, whether they are promoting the rights

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Speaker 2: of people, which is what the courts are supposed to

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Speaker 2: do in a democracy, or whether they are rolling back

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Speaker 2: the rights at the invitation of far right and extremist groups.

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Speaker 2: The courts are where the fight is in many cases,

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Speaker 2: I mean communities are too, but the court that is

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Speaker 2: the place that the far right is going to seek

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Speaker 2: to go to try to win battles that they cannot

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Speaker 2: win among the vast majority of people, and it is

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Speaker 2: the place that we all must be At the same time,

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Speaker 2: it is also a great backstop and last resort we

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Speaker 2: see the courts deliver for people even amidst some of

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Speaker 2: the trends that you have cited and devastating things that

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Speaker 2: I forgot. And when you first asked me the question,

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Speaker 2: I mean student loan debt. I was just reading about

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Speaker 2: how people are not able to afford their holiday expenses

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Speaker 2: because of the student loan payments that are coming back.

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Speaker 2: And of course the Supreme Court stopped the President's initiative

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Speaker 2: to relieve student debt, and economic pressures are rising out

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Speaker 2: of the pandemic, which was something that we represented a

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Speaker 2: range of legal scholars it said was completely lawful and appropriate,

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Speaker 2: but the Supreme Court disagreed. So I think at the

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Speaker 2: same time, the courts are a backstop. I mean this

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Speaker 2: year in Arkansas, we saw Governor Huckabee Sanders sign a

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Speaker 2: law that was going to criminalize librarians. Our team took

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Speaker 2: that law of court on behalf of librarians and others

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Speaker 2: in the state and alongside a broad coalition, and we

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Speaker 2: want a court order that is temporarily blocking that that

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Speaker 2: unlawful violation of the First Amendment and protecting libraries and

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Speaker 2: librarians in Arkansas. And so we see in our work

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Speaker 2: every day how the courts are still important and can

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Speaker 2: serve a very protective purpose for democracy. But we also

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Speaker 2: see how they're a place where the fights really are

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Speaker 2: and where there is a coordinated attempt to misuse our

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Speaker 2: courts to have them do something other than justice, to

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Speaker 2: have them roll back the rights of people. And so

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Speaker 2: I think my takeaway is that regardless of whether you

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Speaker 2: believe in change the courts or not, you've got to

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Speaker 2: be there because that's where these fights are, and that's

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Speaker 2: where democracy is it's arising in these case and I

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Speaker 2: think there is some reason to be optimistic. We've seen

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Speaker 2: a number of judges confirmed, federal judges confirmed that reflect

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Speaker 2: the diversity, the rich diversity and strength of our diversity

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Speaker 2: as a country. We see judges in some of our

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Speaker 2: work that we're appointed by individuals who might not agree

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Speaker 2: with an expansive vision of civil rights or of constitutional rights,

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Speaker 2: but nevertheless that apply the rule of law. And then

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Speaker 2: we also see extremists like what we've seen in Texas

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Speaker 2: and what we've seen in a number of places, where

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Speaker 2: there are judges actively rolling back the rights of people

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Speaker 2: at the invitation of these groups. And it's really important

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Speaker 2: that we be there with the full power of the

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Speaker 2: American people and the communities that are impacted, to use

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Speaker 2: our voice to push back.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Texas has been a petri dish of the

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Speaker 1: Republican extreme US for for quite some time. But their

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Speaker 1: recent headlines. First it was you know, the the the

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Speaker 1: buoys that they wanted to put out to like physically

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Speaker 1: harm migrants that are trying to cross. Then it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, most recently the case of the of the

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Speaker 1: woman that needed to flee the state because the Texas

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court denied her and an abortion with a with

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Speaker 1: a fetus that was unviable. You know, now it is

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Speaker 1: it is uh, the governors have now the governor has

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Speaker 1: now said that it is okay for law enforcement to

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Speaker 1: arrest migrants or or those rather that they suspect of

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Speaker 1: being migrants. And so when we see these things taking place,

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Speaker 1: and then I want to add on top of that,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump uh most recently saying that he's going to

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Speaker 1: be a dictator on day one. Uh most recently saying that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're going to take back the White House

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four and then will negotiate afterwards because

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Speaker 1: I'm owed, you know, years, and then I will weaponize

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Speaker 1: and be your retribution. Do you think that people understand

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Speaker 1: the stakes that we are that we are up against

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Speaker 1: that democracy held and is holding on by a thread

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Speaker 1: right now. But that if if a Donald Trump or

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Speaker 1: any frankly body word to take on outside of a

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Speaker 1: Democrat this election in twenty twenty four, that we don't

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Speaker 1: have the backstops anymore. We don't have the fall safes

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Speaker 1: or the guard rails. Do people? Do you feel like

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Speaker 1: people recognize what is at stake?

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Speaker 2: We have to hope they do. I mean, look, democracy

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Speaker 2: did hold in many ways because of the work that

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Speaker 2: people like you and your community and the listeners that

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Speaker 2: tune into your show, because of the work that legal

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Speaker 2: organizations and other advocates did in the prior administration. But

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Speaker 2: people lost out there. I mean, it held on, but

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Speaker 2: as you said, it held on by a thread. And

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Speaker 2: we have a number of communities in this country that

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Speaker 2: were worse off after the prior administration, after their prior

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Speaker 2: administration's assault on democracy. And we have a number of

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Speaker 2: communities in this country that are worse off now that

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Speaker 2: we have extremist legal organizations seeking to misuse our courts

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Speaker 2: to roll back the rights of people, to deprive people

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Speaker 2: of basic human rights and civil rights. And so I

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Speaker 2: think they're really high stakes and One of the things

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Speaker 2: we're focused on at Democracy Forward is making sure that

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Speaker 2: people know that we all have a role to play here.

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Speaker 2: I saw a depiction the other day of a picture

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Speaker 2: that had a single individual saying, you know, I'm a

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Speaker 2: single individual, what am I supposed to do here? And

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Speaker 2: then there was one that six million. You know, we're

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Speaker 2: all single individuals, and it's our collective power in coming

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Speaker 2: together that can really be important in this time in

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Speaker 2: demanding that our government work for all people, that the

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Speaker 2: people that are entrusted to represent us, the people that

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Speaker 2: are entrusted to be interpreting our constitution and our laws

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Speaker 2: in our courts, that they believe in democracy and want

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Speaker 2: to move it forward. A lot of what we're doing

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Speaker 2: at Democracy Forward as we look to twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: is not only fighting the fights of today. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, we were representing the nation's medical community in

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Speaker 2: the Texas Supreme Court last weekend in Kate Cox's case,

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Speaker 2: which is a really tragic case and shows you what's

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Speaker 2: at stake here for so many families and people across

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Speaker 2: the country. But we're going to take on those fights,

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Speaker 2: but we're also looking at what needs to be done

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Speaker 2: when you have public reports coming out on an almost

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Speaker 2: weekly basis about quote, shadow governments that are being formed

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Speaker 2: to undermine the independence of our civil so servius, to

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Speaker 2: roll back lawful policies that help protect people, to politicize

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Speaker 2: our institutions, and so there's a lot of that work

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Speaker 2: that needs to be happening to really understand the stakes

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Speaker 2: and communicate about that. And so I'm really happy that

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Speaker 2: you're having me on today for us to have this conversation,

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Speaker 2: but also that your listeners, hopefully as they're reflecting on

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Speaker 2: the end of twenty twenty three in the beginning of

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Speaker 2: twenty four, that we can really look together ahead and

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Speaker 2: see what we need to do, because it is the

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Speaker 2: responsibility of all of us to be informed to show up.

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Speaker 2: But think about individual people in Ohio might not have

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Speaker 2: thought they had the power, and they have won a

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Speaker 2: right for people in that state that many thought was

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Speaker 2: impossible because of the collective power that people can build.

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Speaker 2: So I do believe that if we come together when

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Speaker 2: we fight, we know that democracy will win. That people

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Speaker 2: have to have the fight in them.

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Speaker 1: What are you at democracy forward? Paying attention to what

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Speaker 1: is on your radar twenty twenty four in terms of

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Speaker 1: legal cases that you are on that you are going

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Speaker 1: to be defending, like what is what's on your radar?

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Speaker 2: Well at the Supreme Court, of course, there are a

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Speaker 2: number of cases that the Court is hearing this term

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Speaker 2: that could really radically alter the way that government functions

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Speaker 2: and its ability to function for people in our country.

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Speaker 2: There are a variety of cases in a category of

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Speaker 2: law called administrative law, which is really how federal agencies

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Speaker 2: are able to implement policies that Congress passes to help people,

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Speaker 2: and the extremists and far right legal movements are seeking

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Speaker 2: to undermine the ability of government to work for people.

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Speaker 2: So we're weighing in and a lot of those cases

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Speaker 2: on behalf of small businesses, and on behalf of scholars,

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Speaker 2: and on behalf of many folks that have a stake,

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Speaker 2: and we'll be watching those a lot. Of course, given

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Speaker 2: the stakes of the twenty twenty four election, We'll be

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Speaker 2: watching activity and communities throughout the country where there will

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Speaker 2: be efforts to suppress votes, efforts to try to keep

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Speaker 2: people from participating in the political process, and where there

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Speaker 2: is a need, you will find us there. You will

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Speaker 2: find us supporting organizations that will be there. And then

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Speaker 2: of course We represent the generic manufacturer of mythipristom, which

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Speaker 2: is the abortion pill, and it's the majority of the market,

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Speaker 2: and the Supreme Court just last week has agreed to

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Speaker 2: hear to get again here a case it is a

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Speaker 2: resident of Texas, and so we'll be on the front

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Speaker 2: lines of that fight as well as fighting against state

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Speaker 2: laws that are seeking to override the federal government's authority

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Speaker 2: to regulate medication abortion and make it available to all people.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's no shortage of work in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: but I think really focusing on how we make sure

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Speaker 2: that people are empowered to participate in their government, to

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Speaker 2: show up, to show up for their communities, to show

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Speaker 2: up for democracy. We're going to be really focused on that.

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Speaker 2: And then we're also going to folks us on a

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Speaker 2: lot of these legal fights.

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Speaker 1: And last question for you. You know you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: you know the individual you know, recognizing that they have power,

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Speaker 1: and as a collective we have more powered them. We know,

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Speaker 1: what can people that are listening to this show do?

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Speaker 1: How can they get involved with democracy forward? How can

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Speaker 1: they offer support? Please?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, let me say, I think if

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Speaker 2: if we in twenty twenty four, if every day we

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Speaker 2: woke up, or maybe not even every day, once a week,

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Speaker 2: we ask that question of ourselves and of our families

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Speaker 2: and of our communities. I think democracy would be in

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Speaker 2: a great place at the end of next year, and

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Speaker 2: so I think one is we've got to ask that question,

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Speaker 2: what can we do for us? Specifically, I would encourage

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Speaker 2: our listeners to go to Democracyforward dot org, to sign

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Speaker 2: up to get our newsletter, to follow us on social media.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot of opportunities for people to get involved.

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Speaker 2: We will be around the country this year. We're going

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Speaker 2: to be in Tennessee doing some work. We're going to

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Speaker 2: be in Texas, We'll be at south By Southwest. You know,

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Speaker 2: we'll be around the country. We'd love to connect with

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Speaker 2: you when we're in your community. But also you can

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Speaker 2: get in touch with us through our work and stay

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Speaker 2: informed about these fights, and we really need that in

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Speaker 2: the days ahead. But even more broadly, I think people

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Speaker 2: need to reflect on democracy is about all of us,

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Speaker 2: and it's about a way of life, and it's about

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Speaker 2: an affirmation that it's people need to be able to

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Speaker 2: pursue their happiness and to pursue their dreams here in

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Speaker 2: a country, and we need a country that creates the

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Speaker 2: conditions for that. And so whether you go and get

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Speaker 2: a public library card and start supporting your public library,

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Speaker 2: whether you start supporting a local community effort that's seeking

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Speaker 2: to inform people about efforts, whether you go buy a

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Speaker 2: subscription to a reputable news source and pay for some

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Speaker 2: of that content that's created that's fighting misinformation. I think

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things we can do in our

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Speaker 2: daily lives. You don't have to be a lawyer, you

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Speaker 2: don't have to consider yourself an advocate an activist. There's

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Speaker 2: so much that we can do. We certainly need to

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Speaker 2: vote and make a plan and get our friends to

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Speaker 2: make a plan, but there's a lot that we can

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Speaker 2: do in our daily lives, from supporting our libraries to

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Speaker 2: supporting our communities, showing up at a school board meeting

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Speaker 2: and listening. I mean, we have extreamists that are infiltrating

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Speaker 2: these school board meetings and we're on the front lines

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Speaker 2: with parents and teachers all across the country. That's another

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Speaker 2: thing we're going to be doing in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: on these fights. You know, show up, even if you

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Speaker 2: don't have a kid in the school, this is your

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Speaker 2: community and this is what's happening, and so I think

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Speaker 2: that there's a real power in that. We've seen that

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Speaker 2: throughout this country's history, we have seen times of course,

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Speaker 2: the democracy has not delivered for people, for all people

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Speaker 2: in this country because of systems and structures that we're

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Speaker 2: trying to keep democracy from many folks, from women, from

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Speaker 2: people of color, from people with low incomes, from folks

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Speaker 2: that look different or spoke a different language, or worship differently.

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Speaker 2: And so these are fights that this country has been

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Speaker 2: through before, but they're high stakes and we've got to

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Speaker 2: pay attention. So I would just encourage your listeners to

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Speaker 2: ask that question every week, and then, of course, very simply,

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Speaker 2: you can go to democracyforward dot org and if you

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Speaker 2: sign up, you'll at least get a piece of mail

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Speaker 2: once a week with a lot of great ways that

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Speaker 2: you can get involved.

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Speaker 1: Sky Perryman, thank you so much for the work that

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Speaker 1: you are doing over at Democracy Forward, and you know,

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Speaker 1: for amplifying the issues for fighting on behalf of all

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Speaker 1: of us and on democracy. We appreciate you and hope

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Speaker 1: to have more conversations with you and the coming year.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, and thank you for everything that you do,

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Speaker 2: and thanks to your community. I hope everyone has a

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Speaker 2: good holiday and a RESTful and happy new Year. And

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Speaker 2: we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

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Speaker 1: Yes we do, Yes we do appreciate you. That is

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Speaker 1: it for me today, dear friends on Woke a f

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Speaker 1: as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power,

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Speaker 1: Get woke and stay