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Speaker 1: The volume. This is Prime Cutch, the best of the

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Speaker 1: Colin Coward Podcast. Jason Timp host of Hoops Tonight. Here

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Speaker 1: on the volume, we react to the Nuggets championship and

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Speaker 1: predict what's going to happen to Denver and Miami moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Plus great pod this week with John Middlecoff, not only

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Speaker 1: on the NFL, but some thoughts on the US Open.

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Speaker 3: Colin, does that ever get old for you? Watching a

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Speaker 3: team hoist the Trophy.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, you know, tension makes movies and sports better.

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Speaker 1: It was sloppy. I mean Denver was really tight. Even

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Speaker 1: Mike Malone at one point said it were tight. I

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Speaker 1: mean they couldn't hit free throws, they couldn't hit threes,

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Speaker 1: but you know what, they hit their gimmes. You know

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Speaker 1: they're they're good in the paint. I thought Michael Porter

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Speaker 1: redeemed himself with a couple of big moments, and I

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Speaker 1: also thought, you can say that, you know, Denver's not

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Speaker 1: this defensively, I thought they were pretty good and the

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Speaker 1: fourth quarter I thought they were relentless. I thought they

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Speaker 1: were kind of dictating, kind of pushing, running Miami off

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Speaker 1: the line, no cheap baskets, made everybody work for everything.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, they always say offenses talent and skill,

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Speaker 1: defense's effort.

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Speaker 2: Like Denver can be good defensively.

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Speaker 1: They're so good offensively, they don't have to be great defensively.

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Speaker 1: But on a night when they couldn't hit anything, I

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Speaker 1: thought their defense in the fourth quarter was really strong.

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Speaker 1: They wrote to a really high level.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. I was digging into this coming

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Speaker 3: into tonight, obviously, as I kind of expected as I'm

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Speaker 3: sure you did as well for Denver to hoist the trophy.

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Speaker 3: And one of the biggest story lines is this is

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Speaker 3: big basically, the first non defending champion in decades to

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Speaker 3: win the title without a top ten defense in the

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Speaker 3: regular season. It's a significant achievement. It's kind of a

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Speaker 3: break of the mold, so to speak. But what's interesting

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Speaker 3: is as you dive into it, their defense has been

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Speaker 3: excellent in this postseason run. Coming into tonight, their defensive

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Speaker 3: rating in the postseason was only about two points worse

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Speaker 3: than Golden State last year, who was an outstanding defense

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Speaker 3: during the regular season and continued to be so during

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Speaker 3: the postseason. Now, some of it, I do think it

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Speaker 3: was about matchups, and this is kind of the beauty

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Speaker 3: of basketball is like it's not necessarily how great of

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Speaker 3: a defense you are in a vacuum, it's how well

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Speaker 3: can you guard the Lakers? How well can you guard Miami?

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Speaker 3: How well can you guard Phoenix? And with those particular teams,

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Speaker 3: you know, Phoenix didn't quite have the amount of rim

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Speaker 3: pressure they needed. The Lakers didn't quite have the amount

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Speaker 3: of off ball shooting they needed. Miami had all the

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Speaker 3: off ball shooting in the world. But they didn't have

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Speaker 3: the real high level shot creation that they needed. And

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Speaker 3: that's the thing is, like again in the NBA, you

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Speaker 3: don't have to be It's not about being that great

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Speaker 3: defense the grand scheme of things. It's about your specific matchup.

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Speaker 3: And they took it very seriously in this particular postseason run.

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Speaker 3: Mike Malone harped on it constantly. They all talked about

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Speaker 3: it constantly after that game, too ugly loss to Miami.

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Speaker 3: And you know what's interesting is they were missing threes

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Speaker 3: like crazy. This was a classic Eric Spolsure game. They

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Speaker 3: ran about forty possessions of zone in the first two

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Speaker 3: games of the series, then almost completely abandoned it in

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Speaker 3: games three and four, and then that was almost all

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Speaker 3: they did tonight, and it did a great job of

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Speaker 3: disrupting Denver's rhythm. And they were missing a lot of

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Speaker 3: open shots. And what's interesting in basketball is you can't

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Speaker 3: control shot result, Like if you're getting good looks, you

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Speaker 3: fire away and you just hope they go in right,

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Speaker 3: But you can control the defensive end of the flour.

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Speaker 3: And I thought their second half was probably their best

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Speaker 3: stretch of defense in this entire postseason. Hell, they had

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Speaker 3: Jimmy Butler, pump baking at ghosts and not wanting to

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Speaker 3: shoot the basketball. Bam and a boy was missing everything

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Speaker 3: around the paint. It was their defense that got it done,

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Speaker 3: and that's what I enjoyed about it. It is like,

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, it was some of

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Speaker 3: the traditional things that ended up winning in the end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they went from a good team to

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Speaker 1: a very good team. And you wonder when you look

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Speaker 1: at Jokic and Jamal Murray's playmaking ability on top of

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Speaker 1: the points, are they potentially a great team? You know,

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Speaker 1: Murray is a scorer and Jokic is a score and playmaker,

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Speaker 1: that's a very good team. But when Murray adds the element, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can make plays for others along with Jokic, Gordon

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Speaker 1: an elite defensive team all time, great size, then you

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Speaker 1: start going, Wow, they got a lot of things here,

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Speaker 1: like Pippen. You know, Michael wasn't a playmaker, he was

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Speaker 1: a great score. Pippen wasn't a playmaker, he was a

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Speaker 1: great defender. You know, Like like Chicago didn't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of that hybrid stuff where you could do both, right,

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Speaker 1: Even Shaq and Kobe known as scores so Jokic and

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Speaker 1: Murray both become ten plus assist guys. You know, the

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Speaker 1: outther thing is when you're when you're a really great team,

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Speaker 1: you not only win championships, but you often change the game.

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Speaker 1: The Warriors changed the game Denver. Now with their length,

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Speaker 1: are they putting it into small ball? You can't really

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Speaker 1: play small ball with them. You have to have an

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Speaker 1: enormously successful shooting night. They're just too long, they're just

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Speaker 1: too big. And I think to myself, great teams not

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Speaker 1: only win. The Kansas City Chiefs not only surpassed New England,

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Speaker 1: they've made that sort of defense first game, that kind

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Speaker 1: of game doesn't match up with Kansas City. You just

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Speaker 1: can't stop Kansas City if you give them twelve possessions,

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Speaker 1: you just can't. And so, not only is Kansas City

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Speaker 1: now better than New England, they've kind of ended the

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Speaker 1: idea of ball control because Mahomes needs thirteen seconds and

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Speaker 1: he can drive down the field. And I think what

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Speaker 1: Denver's doing? Are they ending small ball? Do we look

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Speaker 1: at now? Miami's a pretty small team. If bands done

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Speaker 1: on the floor, Golden State, they just don't match up.

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Speaker 1: They just can't get anything down low and I also

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Speaker 1: think it was a throwback series. Denver's very much points

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Speaker 1: in the paint, a lot of guys hitting twos. They

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Speaker 1: won a championship on a night they couldn't hit free

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Speaker 1: throws or threes. I kind of like the old school stuff.

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you, people are going to watch them,

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Speaker 1: and I think people are going to say, Okay, the

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Speaker 1: small ball. Remember Houston for years chased the Warriors small

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Speaker 1: ball and they could never win. They were shooting thirty,

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Speaker 1: forty fifty threes. You sort of look at Denver and think, oh,

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Speaker 1: there is another way length twos playmakers. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I find Denver captivating to watch. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: watching a little seventies and eighties and twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm watching a little of both.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they represent some proven methods that win in the

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Speaker 3: NBA and some new methods. You know. And what's interesting

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Speaker 3: is Golden State last year was kind of a small team.

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Speaker 3: But if you look back, like size has been winning

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Speaker 3: in the NBA lately, like this Denver team, Gigantic, that

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Speaker 3: Milwaukee Bucks team in twenty one, Gigantic, that Lakers team

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, Gigantic, that Toronto Rafters team in twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen massive, Even that Warriors team with Kevin Durant, when

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Speaker 3: you really put Kevin Durant with Andre Gudala and Raymond

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Speaker 3: Green on that front line, they were massive. They're just

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Speaker 3: you have to win with size in the NBA. And

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Speaker 3: what was so interesting with this particular Denver team, and

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Speaker 3: this is what actually your Kansas City Chiefs reference kind

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Speaker 3: of makes sense to me. Like I can't tell you

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Speaker 3: how many times over the years as a toward Cowboys fan,

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Speaker 3: I'd be watching, like Aaron Rodgers put together these long,

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Speaker 3: drawn out drives and then it just felt like the

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Speaker 3: Cowboy offense could never get in a rhythm. And the

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Speaker 3: three and out is almost just as much of a

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Speaker 3: product of the rhythm as it is the defense, just

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Speaker 3: because there's a flow to football in the same way

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Speaker 3: there's a flow to basketball, and it's when you see

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Speaker 3: a team that's going to get a million offensive rebounds

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Speaker 3: and they're going to score consistently, get back in transition

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Speaker 3: and force you to attack their set defense. Sometimes denver

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Speaker 3: best defense is their offense, just by the way they

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Speaker 3: beat you up on the interior of the other end

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Speaker 3: of the floor. I do not on the One of

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Speaker 3: the weird subplots of this series is Jimmy Butler and

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Speaker 3: bam Adebayo could not make a shot in the paint

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Speaker 3: to save their life like they were. They were awful,

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Speaker 3: awful shooting inside the paint in this series. And a

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Speaker 3: big part of that is those dudes are banging with

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Speaker 3: Aaron Gordon into Kola Yo Kitschall series and it just

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Speaker 3: wears on you. And so that's a big part of

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Speaker 3: their attack. And then as you go down the roster,

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Speaker 3: you mentioned Jamal Murray, and that's such an important part.

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Speaker 3: His playmaking has been a revelation in this playoff run.

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Speaker 3: He's averaging over seven assists a game. That means Jokich

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Speaker 3: and Murray are giving you almost twenty assists a game. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and then you've got the Murray, the KCP Michael Porter

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Speaker 3: Junior element, in the Aaron Gordon element. All these guys

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Speaker 3: are coming back. This to me feels like a team

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Speaker 3: that could just as easily make four or five consecutive

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Speaker 3: Western Conference Finals and win multiple championships. That becomes an

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Speaker 3: interesting exercise to kind of think about what the rest

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Speaker 3: of the league does from here, because I think it's

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Speaker 3: gonna in a bunch of different ways. You talked about

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Speaker 3: small ball, nine hundred percent agree, Like, there's just there's

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Speaker 3: no doubt that if you try to march into a

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Speaker 3: series against the Denver Nuggets next year and you want

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Speaker 3: to play four dudes that are below six eight, then

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Speaker 3: you're going to be up against it from the standpoint

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Speaker 3: of competing on the glass and in the physicality areas

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Speaker 3: of the game. I mean, Miami did about as good

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Speaker 3: as you possibly can do because of how well coached

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Speaker 3: they are, but even they looked physically overwhelmed at times,

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Speaker 3: and look at what ended up. Most of the pivotal

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Speaker 3: plays at the end of this game were offensive rebound

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Speaker 3: putbacks and Jokics just mauling dudes around the rim. It

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Speaker 3: was their size that got them beat at the end. Now,

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Speaker 3: as I look around the league, though, like everyone's got

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Speaker 3: to make significant improvements, Like I think Phoenix had some

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Speaker 3: real success with pull up jump shooting against this Denver team,

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Speaker 3: But they need to confront their size issues. That's gonna

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Speaker 3: be something they have to confront. Yeah, oh absolutely. And

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Speaker 3: then the Lakers ironically were the by far the most

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Speaker 3: successful offense against the Nuggets. That was so weird about

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Speaker 3: that series. You go in there and you're like, Lakers

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Speaker 3: are the best defense, They're gonna be great. Denver cooked

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Speaker 3: La more than they cooked any of the other teams,

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Speaker 3: Like it didn't make any sense. And then on the

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Speaker 3: offensive end of the flour, we all talked about the

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Speaker 3: Laker offense all season. The Lakers were actually the most

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Speaker 3: successful offense against the Nuggets, in large part because of

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Speaker 3: Lebron James rim pressure, ruey Ha Mura rim pressure. They

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Speaker 3: were actually able to attack the paint in a way

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Speaker 3: the Miami Heat couldn't. But they have to make so

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Speaker 3: many improvements in terms of their perimeter athleticism because guys

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Speaker 3: like Bruce Brown and Jamal Murray just absolutely destroyed them,

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Speaker 3: and so all these teams have to make significant improvements.

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Speaker 3: You're going to see. I think you're going to see

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Speaker 3: a lot of teams get really aggressive this offseason because

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Speaker 3: they know they're not good enough yet. And I think

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Speaker 3: you're going to see a couple centers get some big

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Speaker 3: paydays that don't make a ton of sense, as guys

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Speaker 3: try to throw money at an extra body to throw

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Speaker 3: at Jokic. I think you're going to see a guy

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Speaker 3: like Dwight Howard back in the league, Like it's going

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Speaker 3: to be this whole summer is going to be like,

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Speaker 3: how do we deal with this team who's bringing all

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Speaker 3: their guys back, and it's going to be an interesting chount.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean for years and years the Spurs had

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Speaker 1: Robinson and Duncan and then the Lakers have always had

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Speaker 1: bigs and you know, I mean, it's it's why Portland

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Speaker 1: goes out and drafts of Greg Odin, right, you sort

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Speaker 1: of you start looking around the league and you're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you see it all the time in all sports.

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Speaker 1: Who's in your in the NFL, and when Peyton Manning's

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Speaker 1: in your division, everybody drafts edge rushers. Like that's the

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Speaker 1: way the sport works. Jokic is just now moving into

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Speaker 1: his prime. He's got six more years of it. He's

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Speaker 1: in the best shape by the way he's.

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Speaker 2: Been in in his career.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, if you really go back at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year, Jokich I think sat five of

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Speaker 1: their last seven games, so they went on kind of

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Speaker 1: a losing streak at the end of the year. Year

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Speaker 1: they're not gets to the regular season, they didn't play starters, right,

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Speaker 1: if you take that out. I mean this team, I

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Speaker 1: mean trade deadline on. We should have seen it coming.

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Speaker 1: They just thump people all the time, home road thump people,

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Speaker 1: and it's I gotta tell you, I like new stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a rearview mirror guy. I love having a

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Speaker 1: new potential dynasty. I don't know if they are, but

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Speaker 1: it has the makings of one. I mean, when Lebron

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Speaker 1: went down to Miami, you felt like, oh, this could

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Speaker 1: be special. But d Wade was always a guy that

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Speaker 1: hit the floor a lot aged very quickly. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like a running back not many years, and so

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Speaker 1: you could see by like year two, it was like

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Speaker 1: d Wade wasn't as good on back to back. She

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Speaker 1: kind of said there's going to be an expiration date

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly on this run. But I look at I

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Speaker 1: look at Denver, and I'm like, at least for three

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Speaker 1: more years, at least three more handful, because I think

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Speaker 1: I think, to be honest, Murray, Jokich, Porter and Gordon

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Speaker 1: a right smack dab in the middle of their prime,

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Speaker 1: like not near the end of it, like three years

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Speaker 1: from now, let's come back and talk about it. Then

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Speaker 1: they're closer to the end of it, but this will

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Speaker 1: be fun. By the way, I also love KCP bubble team.

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Speaker 1: This team hit a big three in this game. I

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Speaker 1: loved the game. I love guys like that. There's every

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Speaker 1: championship team's got a guy. I love the KCP. He's

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Speaker 1: had an interesting career. He goes to the free throw line, ladies,

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Speaker 1: talking to all these guys, settle down, settled out like

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Speaker 1: kcp's like telling everybody, Hey, I've been here, so I

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Speaker 1: just nothing I didn't like. And by the way, we

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Speaker 1: all love Miami, but they need Dame. They need a score,

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Speaker 1: they need another player. So the good news for Miami

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Speaker 1: is they lost. They were overwhelmed, but you know exactly

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Speaker 1: what they need. They need a score.

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Speaker 3: From the standpoint of Denver in a potential dynasty, the

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Speaker 3: part that makes it so possible is Jokich's durability and

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Speaker 3: what he's capable of doing when the other guys are

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Speaker 3: not available, because both Michael Porter Junior and Jamal Murray

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Speaker 3: are constantly dealing with nagging injuries in one way, shape

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Speaker 3: or form, and like even Jamal Murray this year, like

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Speaker 3: he got back to where he needed to get in

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Speaker 3: this postseason, which was one of the biggest storylines coming

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Speaker 3: out of the regular season, it's like, can Jamal Murray

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Speaker 3: be what he was in twenty twenty And he ended

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Speaker 3: up eating way better than that, even but he was

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Speaker 3: dealing with some nagging stuff with his knee. Michael Porter

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Speaker 3: Junior and his back issues flare up from time to time.

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Speaker 3: But what's great about the Jokic thing is like you

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Speaker 3: can just throw four dudes out there with him, and

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Speaker 3: he's winning fifty regular season games, so like you, you're

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Speaker 3: not going to suffer in the standings, you're not going

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Speaker 3: to struggle. You can buy rest for Jamal Murray during

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Speaker 3: the season and buy rest for Michael Porter Junior. And

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Speaker 3: then when those guys are available in the postseason, it's

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Speaker 3: the simple fact of you better find a way to

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Speaker 3: score on them easily on the other end, because there's

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Speaker 3: just nobody ever really truly bothered them in this postseason.

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Speaker 3: And that's just going to be a recurring theme as

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Speaker 3: far as Miami goes. And this is what is so

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Speaker 3: interesting from the same point of continuity. And I actually

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Speaker 3: wanted to bring this up because it was something I

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Speaker 3: talked about a lot after Game four. But I do

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Speaker 3: think it's really interesting that from like twenty seventeen to

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one. It was kind of like the Mercenary era, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: the Warriors signed Kevin Durant outright and they win a

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Speaker 3: couple championships in a row. The Raptors trade their continuity

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Speaker 3: for Kawhi Leonard, a mercenary comes in, they win a title.

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Speaker 3: Lebron James sh saw off a half decade of draft

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Speaker 3: prospects in the Lakers to bring back Anthony Davis. They

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Speaker 3: immediately win a title. The Bucks coming off of a

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Speaker 3: really disappointing loss to Jimmy Butler in the Bubble, they

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Speaker 3: go out and they trade for Drew Holliday. The immediately

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Speaker 3: win a title. That was kind of like that era.

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Speaker 3: But now we're in this era where it's like, suddenly,

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Speaker 3: you saw last year a Celtics group with Marcus mar

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Speaker 3: Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum and Al Horford that had

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Speaker 3: a ton of reps together that made it to the finals.

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Speaker 3: And then you saw a Warriors team with a bunch

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Speaker 3: of dudes who've been playing together forever make it to

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Speaker 3: the finals. This year, the Heat and the Nuggets teams

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Speaker 3: that had been together for a while, and my theory on.

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Speaker 3: This is like there's so much talent in the league. Now,

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Speaker 3: every team has two stars. It's like Philly's like the

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Speaker 3: tenth best team in the league. It's like they got

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Speaker 3: Harden and Embid and Tyree Spacsi. It's like everyone's got

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Speaker 3: two stars. Everyone's got good role players. So it's the

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Speaker 3: groups that play the best basketball that end up winning.

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Speaker 3: And so you have to learn how to play good

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Speaker 3: basketball over years. And so I do think it's interesting

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Speaker 3: how continuity has taken center stage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also the the league is cyclical, Like

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Speaker 1: you know, you see this all the time. People copied

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Speaker 1: the Warriors for years, even when they didn't have great

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Speaker 1: three point shooters. It was just like, okay, we've got

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Speaker 1: to become that, and you're like, no, you can get twos.

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Speaker 1: You know Denver. Denver was so confident in its ability

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Speaker 1: to get twos. They can shoot threes and they're good

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Speaker 1: at it, but they're not beholden to it. And and

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Speaker 1: so you know, champions usually have people that copy them, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's it's cyclical. So Lebron and Durant move and they

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Speaker 1: have success, so everybody thinks that's that's Kevin Durant and

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Speaker 1: Lebron are two of the twelve best players in league

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Speaker 1: history or fifteen best players. You can move around the

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Speaker 1: league all you want, it's not gonna You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: duplicate their championships. So I think Denver I do think

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Speaker 1: people will look at Denver and try to get bigger

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Speaker 1: to combat them. It was like when the Spurs had

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Speaker 1: you know, early in the Spurs, when they have Robinson

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Speaker 1: and Duncan, It's like, wow, like this is this is

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Speaker 1: a lot, And I think people will try to combat that.

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Speaker 1: But I think a lot of what Denver does is

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Speaker 1: unique to them. There's just not many guys like Aaron

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Speaker 1: Gordon in the league that big. I mean just I

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Speaker 1: saw him the other days. He was doing something after

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Speaker 1: a game and he had like a sweater on and

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Speaker 1: he was at the microphone and I'm like that ain't

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Speaker 1: sit ups and deadlifts. That dude is just built, not

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Speaker 1: like any human I've ever met, Like six ' ten

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Speaker 1: broad He's just not on the market.

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Speaker 3: Right like YA game against him, I'm aware he's huge.

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Speaker 1: So Jokic is not on the market like some of

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Speaker 1: great teams have. Steph Curry's not on the market. You

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Speaker 1: can try to duplicate it. Lebron wasn't on the market,

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Speaker 1: so you're gonna see some imitators and people try to

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Speaker 1: get bigger. But you know, great teams everywhere. Mahomes isn't

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Speaker 1: on the market, right, you can try to duplicate so

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Speaker 1: much of it. Denver's unique. I think they're going to

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Speaker 1: alter the game. I think they're going to have copycats,

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Speaker 1: and I think they're going to be around for years.

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Speaker 1: I was so happy for the city because I've always

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Speaker 1: said Detroit and Denver don't get the love. But everything

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Speaker 1: works in Detroit. They like bowling. I've seen the ratings

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Speaker 1: college basketball. You know, New York City is a great

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Speaker 1: sports city, but they don't love college football, they don't

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Speaker 1: love NASCAR. Detroit loves everything. Denver's the same way. Denver

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Speaker 1: loves everything. Every star was out the night in Denver,

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Speaker 1: every coach, every player, it was like it was it

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Speaker 1: meant so much to the city.

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Speaker 2: And it's the fans there are.

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Speaker 1: You know, I grew up with the Orange Crush, and

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Speaker 1: you know that was the loudest place in the league.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, I just I felt, I really felt.

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Speaker 1: I was so happy for Denver. It meant so much

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Speaker 1: to the city. I mean, you see Peyton Manning moved there.

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Speaker 1: Right after he played, he said this story, I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to be the rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: And he's biting his lip and he's sweating, and I'm like, god,

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Speaker 1: it meant so much.

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Speaker 2: It was such a joy to watch.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the great quarters of intense, sluggish

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Speaker 1: it open jumper missing basketball in a long time, like

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Speaker 1: it was. You kept saying to yourself, Okay, Denver doesn't

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Speaker 1: deserve to win. You can't miss free When when Brown

403
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Speaker 1: missed two free throws, Christian Brown missed two free throws,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, bro.

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Speaker 2: Come on, you can't do that. You can't win a

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Speaker 2: title like that.

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Speaker 1: But uh, I just have a feeling of elevation tonight,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm really happy for Denver.

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Speaker 3: I love competitive basketball like that. It's funny. There was

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Speaker 3: a quote from jeff A. Gundhi during the game when

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Speaker 3: he was talking about Max Strew's playing through his struggles

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Speaker 3: and he's like, he's like every coach loves a player

413
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Speaker 3: that is competitive when he's struggling, because a guy who's

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Speaker 3: struggling but his competitive will attempt to find ways to

415
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Speaker 3: affect the game even when he's not making shots. Like

416
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Speaker 3: do you remember that ridiculous chase down block that Max

417
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Speaker 3: Shrew's had in the fourth quarter with like four minutes

418
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 3: left where I think it was. I think it might

419
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Speaker 3: have been Jamal Murray. Somebody had a breakaway layup and

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Speaker 3: he was Christian Browning and yeah, yeah, and he came

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Speaker 3: flying in and blocked it. And I was like, that

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00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 3: is just sheer force of competitive will when he can't

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Speaker 3: buy a bucket. And there was literally like ten of

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Speaker 3: those dudes out on the court tonight because nobody could

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00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 3: really make anything, you know, even Jokic missed one of

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Speaker 3: his late little push shots that he always makes. So

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Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about a little bit about Yokic

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Speaker 3: in his place atop the league because I think even

429
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 3: as we talk about the tier that you had mentioned,

430
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 3: which is Luka, Janis, Jokic, and Steph, I think that

431
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 3: Jokic has demonstrated a level of offensive I don't know

432
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 3: what it's called, like inevitability, like like consistent shot creation

433
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 3: that's even a level above some of those guys. This

434
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 3: kind of reminds me a little bit of Lebron in

435
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 3: the early twenty tens where there's kind of like the

436
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 3: changing of the guard where it's like Kobe's tailing off

437
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 3: right and Duncan's tailing off, and so Lebron's kind of

438
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 3: filling that void, and then some of the younger guys

439
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 3: like kd just wasn't quite there yet. Steph Curry's not

440
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 3: quite there yet. That's kind of the way I'm looking

441
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 3: at this right now, Like Jokic feels like he's at

442
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 3: the absolute peak of his powers here in his late twenties,

443
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 3: and Giannis is like dealing with some flaws in his

444
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: game in the half court, and Steph just didn't quite

445
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 3: shine through against that dominant Laker defense the way that

446
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 3: Jokic did. And Luca's struggling in the margins of basketball,

447
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 3: like he's unbelievably great, but he's struggling defensively, and he'struggling

448
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 3: with his attitude, and he's struggling with kind of maintaining

449
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 3: the flow of a team with how kind of ball

450
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 3: hockey he can be sometimes, And so like, do you

451
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 3: do you potentially see Jokic starting a run here where

452
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 3: he's the best player in the world for a while.

453
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think The best player today is Jokic,

454
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: Jana's second, Luca third. Yanna struggles with free throws, confidence late,

455
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: and Luca struggles with playing with somebody ball dominant. Those

456
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: are real factors. Jokic doesn't really have that, and so

457
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: I do think I do think he feels different. He

458
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: also and this is really a thing, and there's more

459
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: than one way to do it, but there's an ego

460
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: lesseness to him, meaning he'll be easy to play with.

461
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: Kobe wasn't. I mean, Kobe won force of just a wilfulness,

462
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: and then with Shaq and then with Gasol, like Kobe

463
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: willed his way to a championship, a lot of that

464
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: was Jordan. Jordan wasn't always easy to play with. There's

465
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways to do it. Then you

466
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: get Magic and Lebron where they make everybody better. I

467
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: feel like Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Lebron, and Jokich feels

468
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: similar to me that stylistically they're all different, but their

469
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: ability to make minus players plus players B minus player

470
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: A B plus C minus player A C plus Like

471
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: I mean, Murray was an A player in this. I

472
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: always thought of him kind of as an A minus

473
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: A B plus and I'm like, no, he was an

474
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: a player with some A plus knights and he's not

475
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: doing that without the screens. Inevitability is a good word,

476
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: like Russell Magic Lebron. It wasn't just them. I've said

477
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: this before to you. Is the greatest stat Lebron's basketball

478
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: careers in high school where he averaged like twenty six

479
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: a game. As a junior, he scored He could have

480
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: scored fifty a game. As a senior he scored twenty seven.

481
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: That told me all I think all I needed to

482
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: know about Lebron is junior and senior year he averaged

483
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: like a point and a half more. That's never been

484
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: Lebron games to outscore people. It's always been about elevating

485
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: others because he knows he can get his points. And

486
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: it's like that told you what Lebron was. He I

487
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: mean the Lebron James best basketball playerrever. If I said,

488
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: what do you think he averaged his last year of

489
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: high school, you'd be like forty eight, like no one

490
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: more point than his junior year. And I think that's

491
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: the key. I think free agents and people are going

492
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: to look Jason at Jokic and be like Denver's not

493
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: a bad place to live, right, Harden, Luca. It's like, man,

494
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: am I going to get the shot?

495
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: Am I going to get? Looks? You watch Jalen Brown

496
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: explode in New York, Jalen Brunson explode in New York,

497
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 2: You're like, Holy God, Luca got in his way.

498
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: Man. There's a lot of guys, a lot of Kevin Loves,

499
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: a lot of Chris Sposhes had really big careers, gave

500
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: up a lot of numbers and said I want to

501
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: play with that dude. All right, I'm going to bring

502
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: in my buddy, John Middlecoff Three and Out podcast, former

503
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: NFL scout on the Volume Sports Network also hosts Go Low,

504
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: our golf podcast US Open in Los Angeles. Everybody here's

505
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: fired up. Everybody I know is going except me because

506
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm doing a podcast. All right, John, I want to

507
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: start with something. In the last twenty four hours, I

508
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: do kind of a pre camp standings and we're through

509
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: the draft, coaching free agency OTAs, and my only woe

510
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: was I put in Miami in first, in Buffalo and second,

511
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: and I had two reasons for it. I think Vic

512
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: Fangio is the most underrated coach assistant in the league.

513
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,959
Speaker 1: I think he's a great defensive coordinator. Between he and

514
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: Jalen Ramsey, I think their defense is going to be

515
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: a handful. Secondly, I like the momentum of Mike McDaniel

516
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: and Tua. I think they get better and better and better.

517
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: I watched them out Coach Sean McDermott two of the

518
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: three games last year, clearly and arguably three of the

519
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: three games. And also the Stefan Diggs story. Something's amiss

520
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: five years in, they can't solve the offensive line. They've

521
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: added more defensive linemen at all over gotten extension. I'm

522
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: not anti defensive Coach Pete Carroll, Tomlin Belichick obviously very capable.

523
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: Where what do you make of the Stefan Digs? A

524
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: lot of the Instagram stuff, it just for that stuff

525
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: to go public. What did you make of it?

526
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: Well, you know he's had issues before he was he's

527
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: a winning diva. You know, he won in Minnesota, was

528
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: a very productive player, and they're good teams, but he

529
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 2: was a lot for them, and they got rid of them,

530
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: and they made one of the great trades in recent memory,

531
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 2: essentially straight up for a draft pick that turned right

532
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: into justin Jefferson right, So it was a pretty seamless

533
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: transition for them, and Digs has been excellent for the Bills.

534
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: I heard you, I think yesterday or two days ago,

535
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: kind of on the Sean McDermott experience, and I was

536
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: thinking about it over the last twenty four hours. I

537
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: think a lot of times. And the works for offensive

538
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: coaches too, And now Shawn's technically the defensive coordinator. You are,

539
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: your success is very predicated on the other side of

540
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 2: the ball who you hire, So just look at some

541
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 2: of the offensive coaches right when did Andy Reid? Obviously

542
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 2: Mahomes was a big element of this got rid of

543
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: I think Bob Sutton was the defensive coordinator. Spagnola last

544
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: five years, three Super bowls in their defense has been

545
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: dramatically better with often young players, Kyle Shanahan back to

546
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: back defensive coordinators become head coaches. They've been awesome. And

547
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: now he hires Steve Wilkes. Everyone's really high on Sean McVay.

548
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: Excellent defensive coordinators, so you need help on that side

549
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: of the ball. When were the Bills really good for

550
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: that three or four year stretch? Brian Abel turns out

551
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: he's a star maybe Ken Dorsey. I mean, we're gonna

552
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a lot of pressure on him because

553
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: they got a little loosey goosey last year with Josh Allen,

554
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 2: who just is kind of a loosey goosey player. His

555
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: talent is just so elite right now. The thing with

556
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: the team building and I know you talked about the

557
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: offensive line with the Bills. Their GM has a lot

558
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: of juice Brandon Bean, you know, and they have invested

559
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 2: heavily in the defensive line, which no one really like.

560
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: That's a smart thing to do, but it's like, have

561
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: they hit on the right guys. I like von Miller

562
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: fifty five million dollars for a guy thirty three years old.

563
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: It was a lot of money. Yes, it was a

564
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: lot of money, and he was having a really good

565
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: season last year. But what happened he got hurt. You know,

566
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: older guys. You saw JJ Watt a couple of years ago. Again,

567
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: elite guy, champion. It's hard to overpay those guys. John.

568
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: I didn't like the von Miller deal. I thought the Rams,

569
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: much like the Chiefs did with ju Ju Smith Schuster

570
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: incentive laden deal comes in. It's Patriots overpay. I thought

571
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: Von Miller for the Rams was a home run. I

572
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: think Buffalo overpaid. I think at his age and injury history,

573
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: it was a mistake.

574
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you're giving the you know, astronomical

575
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: deals when you're a championship level team, they got to

576
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: be year guys. When you go shopping in free agency,

577
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: you just you pay what a twenty thirty percent premium

578
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: just on the fact that you're bidding against other teams,

579
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: the prices go up. So I think they regret that one.

580
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: But I do think their success. You know, Sean mcdermoy

581
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: has proven to be a good defensive coordinator when he

582
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: was with the Carolina Panthers and Ron Rivera, like, he

583
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: knows what he's doing to coach the defense. So let's

584
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: just say their defense a little bit better. What if

585
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: their offense, like what if Ken Dorsey? I mean, for

586
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: every counse Shanahan and Sean McVay, there are a lot

587
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: offensive coordinators that turn out to not be that good.

588
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: So that would be my biggest concern if I was

589
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: a Bills fan. The thing with the Dolphins, though, Colin

590
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: doesn't the quarterback concern you. I mean, you Cushing away

591
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: from like missing the season.

592
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, two is put on about fifteen pounds.

593
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: You can see it in practice in the OTA. Like

594
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: he got thick. He did a Jalen hurts Lamar did

595
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: it two years ago. You're like, he's got traps, he's

596
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: got he got thick. So Tua's kind of come to

597
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: terms with you can't. You can't play light at that position.

598
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: You can in college when you have Bama's offensive line,

599
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: you can't in the NFL. You got to put putting on.

600
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: You got to put weight on.

601
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 2: He's the ground two when she hits the fan, you

602
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: can't try to be a hero. He's not big enough

603
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: or fast enough to do that.

604
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: So I've said if he plays fifteen games, I do

605
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: think Jalen Ramsey Vic Fangio. I think if you look

606
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: at Shanahan's system with Matt Ryan, it's in year two

607
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: that a quarterback. It's complicated that a quarterback really hits

608
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: it with Shanahan. Often it's been year two. I think

609
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: year two McDaniel and Tua. I think the division's really good.

610
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: If de Andray Hopkins signed with New England, I think

611
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: that's that's like substantial. But I have the same quarterback worries.

612
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: I I just don't like the way Buffalo is trending.

613
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: And the other thing is with Aaron Rodgers and the Jets.

614
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: I know Aaron's going to be fine, and I think

615
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: he's using He's smart, he knows the narrative on in

616
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: Green Bay was his buddies were the old guys Bachtiari

617
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: and Cobb. He didn't work with young guys. So in

618
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: New York he's made a point to put his arms

619
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: around the young I love these young players. He's smart,

620
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: he sees It's like I've said before, when you get

621
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: divorced and remarried, you're like, what was I really bad at?

622
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: Okay?

623
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: I got to get better at dealing with kids. I

624
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: get to get better with money. Like you know what

625
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: you're bad at, you correct it. He's he's course corrected

626
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: on the young guys. But it's still a shaky O

627
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: line the wide receiving corps. Alan Lazard's more of a three,

628
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: Garrett Wilson's young. I still I don't think they I

629
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: think most of their talents and the defensive front and

630
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: in corner. So I if I said to you, so,

631
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: Miami's my woe pick. I think Carolina has a chance

632
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: to win their division, mostly because it's a bad division.

633
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: Is there a woe pick for you at this point

634
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: a division that I.

635
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: Would go, Man, I didn't see that coming. Well, I

636
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: guess you could see it coming. But everyone's going to

637
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: pick the Bengals. I do think the Steelers are really

638
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: coming on at the end of the year last year.

639
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: We know how well they draft, we know how much

640
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: talent they have on their team. You know TJ. Watt,

641
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: remember missed a lot of last season. He's yes a

642
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: lot like Nick Bosa that if he's playing seventeen games,

643
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: he's getting you close to twenty sacks and dominating every

644
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: game he plays. In good point. Their culture, you know

645
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: their quarterback. I'm not a huge like. I don't really

646
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: like those type players because I think they're ceilings pretty low.

647
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: But physically you get to go to a place that's

648
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: just kind of equipped with a running back, weapons, a defense.

649
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: He's an older, younger player. I mean, it's not out

650
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: of the realm possibility they win twelve or thirteen games,

651
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: right if they maximize and stay healthy and they're in

652
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: that division. No one's intimidated, especially Baltimore and Pittsburgh by

653
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati Bengals, right, even though Bengals have been beating them,

654
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: but they will view of healthy that they should win

655
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: the division. So I'd say the Steelers are a team

656
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: that I might lean to pick. I'm definitely gonna pick

657
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: to make the playoffs, but to potentially win the North

658
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: Well and the other thing.

659
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: Very much like New England defensive culture, defensive coach. They

660
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: get a Mac Jones, a Kenny Pickett, lower ceiling. But

661
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: if you kind of look at what Belichick, Brady was

662
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: viewed as a lower ceiling guy or I got better

663
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: over time, yep. And so the truth is Belichick Belichick

664
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: doesn't want Lamar Jackson running out of his place either,

665
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: just Shanahan either. Just you know, Tomlin sometimes was frustrated

666
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: with big bends, you know, ad libbing, kind of refusal

667
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: to audible in and out of trouble. And so I

668
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: kind of look at Kenny Pickett and I'm like, Okay,

669
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: I don't love him. His ceiling maybe seven and a half.

670
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: But you know, with Tomlin's defense, with a culture that

671
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: can win a division, it really can.

672
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And listen, I think coaches, you talk to these

673
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: guys GMS every year is a new year, so the momentum,

674
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: especially when you miss the playoffs, doesn't carry over. But

675
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: that is an organization whose standards so high and they're

676
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: so used to like ending on success will carry over.

677
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: I think for a lot of these guys, I think

678
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 2: the Saints are another team. You know, I know you've

679
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: always been a supporter of Derek and I've known him

680
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: since Fresno State. I think for the first time in

681
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: his career he was really kind of told like essentially,

682
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: you suck get out here. Yeah, you know, like you're

683
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: not good enough to play here. They've left, he left

684
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: the building the last couple of weeks. That's a team

685
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: that what's crazy is that the end of the Sean

686
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 2: Payton era in New Orleans, they had a really good

687
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: defense and they still have a lot of physical pieces.

688
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: They've been a physical team. Yeah, then Drew's career kind

689
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: of ends, and obviously they go into this court. They

690
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: don't have a quarterback. Derek does not have to be

691
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 2: Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. If he can just play

692
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: like the tenth eleventh best quarterback in you know, the NFL,

693
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: they could especially winnu factor in their division. Their strength

694
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 2: of schedule, like why couldn't they win ten eleven games?

695
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting you you touched on Sean Payton.

696
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: I want to dive a little bit into Denver here,

697
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: so I thought it probably more the best guest I've

698
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: ever had on my show reoccurring as Sean Payton. I

699
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: did him Mondays fifteen times last year. Seawan and I

700
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: would talk five minutes before he went on, twenty minutes,

701
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: twenty five when he was on five after. I learned

702
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: so much much to dinner a couple of times. I

703
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: learned so much from Sean Payton. I could tell after

704
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: about four or five meetings with him, there's no way

705
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: he was going to stay out of the league. He

706
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: just he's so curious, he's such a good storyteller. He's

707
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: so he's just he's like intellectually twitchy, like he needs

708
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: to work right. He can only golf so much. You've

709
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: met guys like this.

710
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 2: He's too good of a coach to not be coaching,

711
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: that's right.

712
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: And he didn't have the burnout yet of a Jimmy

713
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: Johnson who could have coached for years more. But Jimmy

714
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: was burnt out, and Sean, unlike Jimmy. Maybe it has

715
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: a good social life. I mean, Sean's gonna go rip

716
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: it up and have a good time, beautiful young wife

717
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: like Sean gets away from the sport. But I watched

718
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: Denver and seven of the base eight best offensive lines

719
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: according to PFF last year were offensive head coaches Harbaugh

720
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: and seven offensive head coaches. They figure out the O line.

721
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't lost on me that he goes out and

722
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: gets Mike mcglinchy right tackle, Ben Powers at guard. They

723
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: already have, they have Garrett Bowles coming back, who's their

724
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: best onlinement, and they do have an interior guard they

725
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: like on the roster, and so I think we're going

726
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: to see a significant upgrade on their O line. And

727
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: Sean told me a couple of times off the air

728
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: and on with Russell Wilson, he said he's got to

729
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: go back to leaning into what he does and that

730
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: is basketball on grass. He's got to move, that's what

731
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: he is. What do you in vision? I think they're

732
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: going to take a big leap. What do you envision

733
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: with them?

734
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: I didn't love the O lineman signings for the price point,

735
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: but ultimately mcglinchy's a good example like, do you love

736
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: buying a house at the peak of the market. Sometimes

737
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: not ideally, but he need somewhere to live, right, So

738
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: do I want to pay fifty million dollars for McGlinchey. No,

739
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: but who's going to play right tackle? And it's not

740
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: like he's coming from the worst team in the league.

741
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: He's been a five year starter on the forty nine ers.

742
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 2: So it's listen, maybe I'm too close to the sun.

743
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: I've seen him, but he's he is a starts every

744
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: game for you at a very very critical condition. I'm

745
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: with you. I mean, what made Russell Wilson so special?

746
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: And I've seen him live several times in his heyday,

747
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: he was just a magician. He kind of had this

748
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: Steve Young flair, obviously the deep ball, and he looked

749
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: like a shell of himself. And you know, I think

750
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: most of us, if you're going to be bullish on

751
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: his comeback, he'd be like, well, Nate Hackett dysfunction. And

752
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: then if you were going to be bearish on the

753
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 2: situation and be like, well, he's a lot of miles

754
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: on those tires right running around. You can't play like

755
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: that forever. He's probably him and Aaron Rodgers are probably

756
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: the two most fascinating situations this year for just high

757
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 2: level Hall of Fame level guys in new scenarios. Obviously,

758
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: Russell's been there a year, but now gets Sean Payton

759
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 2: no longer he's in charge. I think some of the

760
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: stuff was overblown, Like Peyton Manning had an office at

761
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 2: the facility right in Indian Denver. No one cares about

762
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: that stuff when you're winning. It just gets weird when

763
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: you're not. Now, Peyton like Tom are just better dealing

764
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: with guys one on one. Like, I don't know if

765
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 2: that's something you change. I mean some of the question

766
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: marks with Russell just being a little different. You know,

767
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: that's not something you usually flip a switch at it.

768
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 2: Thirty two, thirty three years old. Like, I'm pretty confident

769
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: Sean Paige. You talk to people in the NFL that

770
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: he's viewed as one of the best offensive minds and

771
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: just schemers of his generation, so offensively like the scheme,

772
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 2: He's going to figure it out. It's just Ken Russell.

773
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: Is he still the athlete and if his athleticism is

774
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: let's say it was once a hundred percent, is now

775
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 2: sev not eighty eight percent. That's a big problem for

776
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: a smaller player who's not ever going to play like

777
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: a Brady or Maning in the pocket.

778
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: Right. You know, it was interesting. I started thinking, why

779
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't Russell run last year because it was really abrupt,

780
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: like he wove movement, wouldn't And I did wonder this

781
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: is that that Russell wanted to be viewed as a

782
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: pocket passer because he wanted to be viewed as an

783
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: all time great. And Brady was winning super Bowls and

784
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: MP and Lamar Jackson was new in the league. Lamar

785
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: was running around, and I had this thought that that

786
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: Russell watched all of this and thought, I'm not going

787
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: to be Lamar. I'm not going to be Kyder Murray.

788
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: I'm not those guys. I want to establish my guy

789
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: myself as a pocket guy, because it was almost as

790
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: if he was stubborn not moving. If you watch their games,

791
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: when he moved, he moved the chains. He's not a

792
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: great pocket passer. Jalen Hurts isn't yet a great pocket passer.

793
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: Lamar's better than people think. He's not Burrow. And I

794
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: thought it was almost one of those where Sean Payton

795
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: said this to me.

796
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: He goes.

797
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: I got to convince Russell, let's go back to basketball

798
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: on grass. I think Russell can move. I think Russell

799
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: made a decision he did not want to be branded

800
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: as run around guy because Kyler had come in and

801
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: was a little quicker, Lamar was faster, Josh Allen was

802
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: leaping over people, and Russell was thinking, I don't want

803
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: to be the seventh best running quarterback in this league.

804
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: That was my interpretation because when I watched, I'd think, Russell,

805
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: every time you run in these games, twice a game,

806
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: you pick up a first down run. He's still very elusive.

807
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 1: So sometimes, you know, people have told me this before

808
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: in my career. Sportscasters like, lean into what you are.

809
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: You know, if you're a storyteller, be a storyteller. If

810
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: you're funny, be funny. If you're a great journalist, lean

811
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: into it. I think Russell needs to lean back into Russell.

812
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: So I want to go from there to a team

813
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: you know very well, the forty nine ers. I think

814
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: it's impossible to yank a player that went aight, and

815
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: Zho is a starting quarterback.

816
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: I don't think, so what is not happening? So it

817
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: doesn't you know, they want guy, what do you do

818
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: with Trey Lamps? Well, I actually think he can earn

819
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 2: a lot of creditibility back and I think he has

820
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: a little bit in the OTAs. But this fall, if

821
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: he just beat Sam Darnald out, like he went from

822
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: the number three pick in the draft and traded for

823
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: three first round picks to two years later not the

824
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: starting quarterback because mister irrelevant is and competing with Sam

825
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: Donald who's playing for three million dollars to be the

826
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: backup quarterback. So I do think there's a lot on

827
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: the line come August. Right in training camp, they have

828
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: some joint practices the preseason games. My take is though,

829
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: I just the forty nine ers thought that they could

830
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: have their cake and eat it too and this player,

831
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: and they realized he needed so much work and he

832
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: got hurt that they were just a ready made machine.

833
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: It's why they always kind of went back to Jimmy Garoppolo.

834
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: And then when they just they didn't luck into Brock

835
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: party because they he made the team last year out

836
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: of training camp. Like they what he did in training camp,

837
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: Kyle kind of fell in love with They really liked him.

838
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 2: Now they didn't think he was in end up being

839
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: a starting quarterback, but through injuries, his play through whatever,

840
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: the end of the season and then those couple of

841
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 2: playoff games before. I guess the Dallas game was hard.

842
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: I mean their defense was playing really well. The Eagle

843
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: game didn't even happen. That he was a more explosive

844
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: player than Jimmy Garoppolo. And we know the weapons they have, right,

845
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: and I think now that they have Christian McCaffrey, they

846
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: just go, we don't need because I'm not asking you

847
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 2: to play like Patrick Mahomes. We run the ball a lot,

848
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 2: we throw a lot of quick screens, we throw a

849
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 2: lot of wheel routes. We are not bombs away like

850
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 2: the Buffalo Bills or the Bengals. That's not the way

851
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: we play. So we just need a guy to be

852
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: very very accurate basically, like the ten yard window, passed

853
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage right, and perty was awesome at that.

854
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 2: Of course he was. He's been a four year starter

855
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: at Iowa State. He's a multiple All big twelve guy.

856
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 2: He had a lot of experience, very confident, and it's

857
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 2: just an accurate player. I mean that's his strength and

858
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: that's not Trey's strength. And you know, the Bills several

859
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 2: years ago were like, screw it, We're going to figure

860
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 2: it out with Josh Allen and learn through it. And

861
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: they weren't even close to being a super Bowl contender

862
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 2: at the time he started when he got there. That's

863
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: the opposite with the forty nine er. You could argue

864
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: it would have been an easier landing spot if he

865
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: just went to a shitty team and just got to

866
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 2: screw up on the fly and figure it out. That

867
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: was I think the forty nine ers thought the opposite,

868
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 2: and then once they got it, they're like, yeah, we can't.

869
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: And the players last year were kind of grumbling because

870
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: they're thinking, we can't win ten games if this guy's

871
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: not accurate, right, we can't figure it out on the fly.

872
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 2: We're twenty five to twenty eight year old guys in

873
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 2: our prime right to roll. And yeah, I mean if

874
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: he doesn't win the backup job. They do have the

875
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 2: three quarterback rule, you know, they change it. Technically they

876
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: keep them, but to me, it's not out of the

877
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: realm possibility. They just maybe trade him at the end

878
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: of training camp if Sam Donold like beats him out right,

879
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: because once you can't have a guy nine million dollars

880
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: being your third, You know.

881
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: Can you get can you get a fourth round pick

882
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: for him?

883
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 2: I think it depends how he plays in training camp

884
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: right now. You could not Now if he looks good

885
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: in training camp and Sam's just better. They have a

886
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 2: joint practice with the Raiders. What Jimmy Garoppolo, they're baking

887
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: on him being healthy? I mean he can't. He can't

888
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: pass a physical in June for the second time in

889
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 2: two years, So I mean that that could be a disaster.

890
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 2: What if he's good against the Raiders Mark Davis Vegas

891
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: Knights champion. You can't just be a relevant in Vegas.

892
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 2: They don't have a and if Jimmy is injured, I

893
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 2: mean that they be Brian Hoyer would we wouldn't just

894
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: trade a fourth to just see what you got to

895
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: take your chances because there's some pressure on just being

896
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: relevant if you're the Raiders. So I think there would

897
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: be a couple teams if he shows signs of life.

898
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: If he doesn't, uh, yeah, his value is very very

899
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: small because he makes he's a third overall pick, he

900
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: makes him cash. Right.

901
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: I just saw this. There was a rumor the Patriots

902
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: tried to trade for Rogers and he blocked it. Do

903
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 1: you believe that rumor?

904
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 2: I would bet Bill sniffed around because he was obviously

905
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 2: pretty down on Mac Jones over the last twelve months.

906
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 2: The Patriots don't have any offensive weapons. It's not really

907
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 2: an enjoyable place to go once it's not guaranteed you're

908
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: gonna win. I mean, one of the reasons guys were

909
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: taking pay cuts because you were guaranteed at minimum to

910
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: go to the AFC Championship Game and like an eighty

911
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 2: percent chance you were going to the Super Bowl. So

912
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: once it's like, well we might win nine games, Like, yeah,

913
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: I'm not playing for that curmudgeon. You've been on this

914
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: forever and listen. I think Bill's an awesome I mean,

915
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: he's an all time great coach any sport, any era,

916
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: at anytime. But the offensive game last year was an

917
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: embarrassment to go with Patricia Right and Joe Judge. I mean,

918
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: that situation that's beyond like arrogance or whatever. That's just crazy.

919
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 2: I mean it was universally like this is insane again,

920
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: not a mac Jones guy. I do understand. If I'm

921
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: mac Jones, like what he's been at Alabama, he knows

922
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: what normal looks like, and that ain't normal.

923
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: You know what it's I often use sports to guide

924
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: me through some of my business stuff. And you know,

925
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 1: like I watched Greg Popovich refuse to embrace the three pointer.

926
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: I watched Bill Belichick refuse to pivot, unlike Saban, to

927
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: a more offensive quarterback friendly team. And it is interesting

928
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 1: in the business books that I peruse over the course

929
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: of a year. I like business. I always have. Not

930
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: necessarily a business person, but I enjoy reading about the

931
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: structure of it and the architecture of businesses and the

932
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 1: ascension of a business, especially since I created the volume

933
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: and almost too a business. The successful companies that fail,

934
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: people don't get dumb, They just get arrogant, and they

935
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: start believing John in the culture more than talent. You know,

936
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: Mike Krzyzewski got very precious on the One and Done.

937
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: Remember for years, Duke would not hang your jersey unless

938
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: you graduated. And then, you know, Mike finally said that

939
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: all these one and done guys, they all beaded me.

940
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: Mike was like, Okay, I'm pivoting. Saban pivoted when he

941
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: got laying Kiffin on the staff. That program first seven

942
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: years was built on linebackers safe these corners. Then they

943
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: went all in on five star wide receivers and quarterbacks

944
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,240
Speaker 1: on left tackles. Is that when I look at Bill Belichick,

945
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: he didn't get dumb. He but when you fall in

946
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: love with your culture. I remember when I started the

947
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: volume I talked to I emailed a couple of different people,

948
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: successful business guys, and almost three people, a woman and

949
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: two men, and very successful people, and they all said

950
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: the exact same thing. Separately. I said, give me one

951
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: piece of sage advice, and they all said, be willing

952
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: to pivot, don't fall in love with your ideas of

953
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: your culture. Whatever works, double down what doesn't get off

954
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: it immediately. And when I watch the Patriots, I mean,

955
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: you're a former scout, you have people in the building.

956
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: That's why I think DeAndre Hopkins is sort of an

957
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: acknowledgment in Juju Smith Schuster. Hey, I got to get

958
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: this right, like I fed up last year. That's what

959
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: d hot feels like to me. Well, I think there's

960
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: some tangible pressure. I mean there's always been rumors in

961
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: NFL circles. Bill doesn't exactly treat the.

962
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: Craft family normal like coach ownership hierarchy, maybe an equal

963
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: or maybe in some instances even above. Yeah, that's that works.

964
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: When you're going fourteen and two every year, right, and

965
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: win the Super Bowl every other season and win in

966
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: six and whatever seventeen years, going to ten AFC championship games.

967
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: It's a different story when you're struggling to make the

968
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: seventh wild card, right, and when you do, you lose

969
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: by seventy five points to the Bills, or you don't

970
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: make the playoffs, and you look around and you start

971
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 2: making moves like that. I was also thinking about I wonder,

972
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: you know, the older you get, especially some of these

973
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: coaches or even business people in their seventies, it's probably

974
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: harder if you kind of lean negative. And Bill can

975
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: be a little negative curmudgeon. Think about some of the

976
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: successful guys right now, Andy Reid mid sixties, kind of happy, right,

977
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: Pete Carroll a little more positive. There's something to just

978
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: be positive every day. It's a little harder is now

979
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: we're several years removed from Tom Brady. A lot of

980
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: the guys that were around Tom Edelman, mccordy, they're gone.

981
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: So these guys don't know what twenty sixteen was like.

982
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean anything to a lot of the guys

983
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: on the Patriots, right, And then you got this coach

984
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 2: who just is a hard ass every day driving you

985
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: through one thing with Nick Saban just there's a churn

986
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: in college and he hasn't had the lows. I mean

987
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 2: his low is like eleven wins, losing in the SEC

988
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 2: championship game, right or something. You know, bill last couple

989
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 2: of years. For their standards, there's a it's like a

990
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 2: Grand Canyon wide gap. And I don't think he just

991
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: not that he's not an optimistic Obviously he knows what

992
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: he's doing, but he's tough man to be around on

993
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 2: a daily basis. The negativity people handled it because they

994
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: also don't pay as much in terms of coaches assistant

995
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: coaches historically. You know, they try to be cheap with

996
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: the players historically. And it's like it's one thing when

997
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 2: you're winning, just like in any industry, if you're going

998
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: to be part of a lot of success and you're

999
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 2: eventually going to benefit on the back end, you're like,

1000
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: I can handle this, right, I can handle this crime.

1001
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: But when it's not working, like what am I doing

1002
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: this for? You started looking at yourself in the mirror

1003
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 2: and a lot of people turn on you.

1004
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to pivot US Open. In Los Angeles,

1005
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: John hosts our golf podcast, Go Loo Podcast, Cool Merch.

1006
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: John is his real passion. He just happens to be

1007
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: great at football. His real passion is golf, and you

1008
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: can tell when you listen to him. So I'm going

1009
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 1: to lean into you on this. There are certain courses

1010
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: that benefit certain players. So in the when I think

1011
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: of US Open, I think of the rough as deeper.

1012
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: This is the American Championship.

1013
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 2: You're going to have to earn it.

1014
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,959
Speaker 1: Are there players? When you look at the US Open,

1015
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: give me a couple of guys who are built to

1016
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: win and.

1017
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 2: Open well kepka is I mean you typically it's really

1018
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: really hard. Based on Thursday, it was relatively easy. Now

1019
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: they can trick it up really quick. You know, they

1020
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: cannot water greens. They can they have the ability to

1021
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 2: grow grass at rapid rates. I mean the rough can

1022
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: you know change quickly? You saw Ricky Fowler. One thing

1023
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 2: is and I haven't played much golf. I haven't played

1024
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: any golf in Florida. There's a huge differs in the

1025
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 2: way grass your club received at the highest level. I

1026
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 2: mean me, you the average guy, even if they're shooting

1027
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: in the seventies, can't tell. But at the pro level.

1028
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: It's why California guys typically have success on the California Swing,

1029
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach, Tory Pines. This today, Ricky Fowlers, Andershoffley born

1030
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 2: and raised in southern California. Last before we hopped on,

1031
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 2: Phil Mickelson was like fourteen holes. He was three hunderd

1032
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: par California guy still lives out here, so you're very

1033
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 2: comfortable with the grass. Now, this isn't your typical where

1034
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: if you're off the fairway, you're dead. They've never played

1035
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: this course before. You see Zilloy The Spelling mansion is

1036
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: on Hoole fourteen. It's for sale right now for one

1037
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty five million dollars. So the monthly payment

1038
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: is close to a million dollars. The monthly taxes are

1039
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: like one hundred and twenty grand. But this is somewhat

1040
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 2: of a unique venue because they've never been here and

1041
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 2: they might never come back. But I think typically it's

1042
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 2: it's guys that are smart. There is a kind of

1043
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 2: like a belichicker, and you've got to have strategy. Tiger

1044
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,439
Speaker 2: was the greatest strategist ever. Phil could be a little

1045
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,959
Speaker 2: loosey goosey. It's why he's never won a US Open

1046
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 2: and blown it a couple of times. I think Koepka,

1047
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's weird. He looks like like a football

1048
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 2: player something, but he's actually a pretty boring golfer. Hits

1049
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 2: a lot of fairways, hits a lot of greens, doesn't

1050
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 2: screw up. It's why he wins these big tournaments. Rory

1051
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 2: one of the knocks on him for being one of

1052
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 2: the most talented guys ever, a little phillish, not always

1053
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 2: the greatest decisions, you know, the talents there, And I

1054
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: think US Opens historically, we'll see how this thing plays out.

1055
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: It usually kills you when you make a bad one hole,

1056
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: can ruin your tournament.

1057
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 3: Right this.

1058
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 2: You know, you're down there right now. It looked a

1059
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 2: little overcast today, so the sun's not baking, which maybe

1060
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 2: actually can lead to softer courses. Usually when that sun,

1061
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 2: you know, bakes, hardens out the fairways, hardens out the green.

1062
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 2: But these guys, these superintendents, these people that run these

1063
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: courses now, especially in a place like that, that they

1064
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: will not like these low scores, they're gonna want to

1065
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: They're gonna want to hump of these guys, you know,

1066
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: eighty five Bears style the next couple of days. So

1067
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 2: it'll be very fascinating Friday Saturday if they if they

1068
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: try to hit them in the teeth with them curveballs.

1069
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: So the players that didn't defect to the Live Tour,

1070
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: you know, like Rory McElroy, My take was always that

1071
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson complained for years, as did Greg Norman, about

1072
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: the treatment of star players every other entertainment business, NBA, music, Sony,

1073
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 1: movie studios. You take care of your stars golf too,

1074
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: So you know, it wasn't a shock when Phil bolted

1075
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: to the Live Tour. If I would have guessed who

1076
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: would have bolted, I would have said Greg Norman's gonna

1077
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: run it. Phil's gonna bolt. But for the players that

1078
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: didn't defect going forward, what do you think is reasonable

1079
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: compensation to show up because you have to take care

1080
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,760
Speaker 1: of some of these guys, especially now that the PGA

1081
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: scolded golfers that departed and defected and now took the money.

1082
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 2: You know, it's weird. A lot of the reaction over

1083
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: the last ten days has been those guys got screwed.

1084
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 2: I don't think the top end guys regret making their decision.

1085
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: You know, Roy McElroy, John Rahm, Jordan Speith, these guys

1086
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: were worth nine figures, so the money at their level,

1087
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 2: not that it wouldn't have Justin Johnson likes his life,

1088
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: but Dustin Johnson was kind of over it. Keopka didn't

1089
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: play that much beside the majors and care ever, So

1090
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 2: what I think is going to be fascinating is that

1091
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: it was not sustainable the way it was going. Right.

1092
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: It's a little like the NBA. You know, ten to

1093
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: fifteen players. We talk a lot about like the top

1094
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 2: ten players, it's really the top three or four to

1095
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 2: carry the league. Right in golf it was It's always

1096
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 2: been the top three or four guys in any era

1097
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 2: that carry the sport. And then you create stars by

1098
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: the next seven to twenty guys when they battle those guys,

1099
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 2: and if you ever beat them, you become a star.

1100
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 2: Like Jokic, how do you become a star certain knocking

1101
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: off the top guys and now we view him as

1102
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: an equal. But without his ability to beat those top guys,

1103
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 2: we wouldn't quite know how to gauge it. So the

1104
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: splintering of golf, which is much more niche than our

1105
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 2: team sports in America, it was never gonna work. And

1106
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: they're going up against an entity with unlimited money. So

1107
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 2: I have a buddy that works in Wall Street that

1108
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: text me. He's like, you know that the Saudi's have

1109
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 2: like sixteen trillion in untapped oil. I mean, their wealth

1110
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 2: is unlimited, and golf I think they overextended themselves to

1111
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 2: try to compete against because they were going to their sponsors,

1112
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,280
Speaker 2: who are some of the biggest companies in America, asking

1113
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: them to double down, and the guy's like, well, you're

1114
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 2: not producing double the why would I give you double

1115
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 2: the amount I'm already giving you, which is a lot

1116
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: of money. It wasn't adding up. So the merger and

1117
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: as you see j Monahan, I don't know if you

1118
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 2: saw the headline the last twenty four hours, but he

1119
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 2: took a leave of absence probably I mean stress you know,

1120
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 2: this is something I think that was There are so

1121
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: many variables on this, but ultimately I don't know, like

1122
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 2: what are you just going to put everyone on salary?

1123
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 2: Which might be which might have and now that they're

1124
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 2: no longer in a I think it's called a five

1125
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: oh one CE for tax benefits, which they're not going

1126
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 2: to do any and they haven't been able to just

1127
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 2: put Tiger Phil Rory, you know, pay him like I

1128
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 2: don't know, Steph for Lebron or Aaron Judges, pay them

1129
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 2: thirty thirty five million dollars a year and then whatever

1130
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 2: else you win. And that's the Sadis had the ability

1131
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 2: to do. But I also think some of those guys,

1132
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: like the thing with golf, to have a legit tournament,

1133
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 2: you have to have access to the courses, and the

1134
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: Sadis were never going to have access to any good

1135
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: course because of the country clubs were all in a

1136
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 2: weird way integrated with the money guys and they didn't want,

1137
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: they don't need the Sadis. And then the public courses,

1138
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour, the pebble beaches you go around the

1139
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: country are in business with the PGA Tour.

1140
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: All I know is this, there's like four golfers in

1141
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: this country, Phil Brooks, Rory and then Dustin Johnson. If

1142
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: they're competing Sunday, I'm in and And now I'd theorize

1143
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: if Tiger was in his prime, you maybe don't have.

1144
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: To merge, and he's an all time outlier. You're right,

1145
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 2: given the sport, I mean, Michael Jordan's more likely to

1146
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 2: come again than in golf. We ever see a Tiger Woods.

1147
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 2: It was not sustainable, the model, the volume,