1
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where we

2
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,119
Speaker 1: discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the

3
00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

5
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,640
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

6
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

7
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

8
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

9
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

10
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me

11
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 1: for Session thirteen of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today,

12
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: in our no co pay Needed segment, I'm joined by

13
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 1: special guest therapist Ronelle Nelson to talk about recovering after

14
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,119
Speaker 1: an affair. Renelle is a licensed marriage and Family therapist

15
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 1: and an a sex certified sex therapist. She has been

16
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 1: providing therapy for over eleven years. Renelle is also a

17
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 1: certified infidelity Recovery therapist. She's passionate about helping couples get

18
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 1: through the long term impact of affairs, which includes potential

19
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 1: divorce and its overall impact on a societal level. As

20
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 1: a trained infidelity recovery specialist. Her role is to guide

21
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,800
Speaker 1: couples through this painful time through coaching, directing, and education.

22
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 1: She leads couples through uncertainty and fear to hope and strength.

23
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: Ronelle and I talked a lot about the seven different

24
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 1: types of affairs. We also discussed the hard work that's

25
00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 1: involved in recovering from affairs, and also why it's important

26
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,600
Speaker 1: to talk about attractions to other people even before an

27
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,920
Speaker 1: affair happens in your relationship. So I definitely hope this

28
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,840
Speaker 1: will be useful if you need it, make sure to

29
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,440
Speaker 1: share your feedback with us on social media using the

30
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,959
Speaker 1: hashtag tv G in Session. So thank you so much

31
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,440
Speaker 1: for joining us to there now. I'm super excited to

32
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 1: have you on the podcast, so excited to be here.

33
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 1: Thank you. So share with us what you do. I

34
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: am licensed marriage and family therapists who specialize and sexual

35
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,040
Speaker 1: issues and infidelity. Okay, so that's really what I wanted

36
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 1: us to get together to talk about today. UM so,

37
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,200
Speaker 1: can you kind of give us like your working definition

38
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 1: of infidelity? My work and definition of infidelity is one

39
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 1: of the partners have sex outside of the union. Okay,

40
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,040
Speaker 1: well that's what um, this work of definition. I know

41
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 1: it's a lot people talk to me about UM emotional affairs,

42
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 1: affair that's happened on social media, but UM, for the

43
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,000
Speaker 1: purpose of infidelity that I talk about, I talk about

44
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,679
Speaker 1: sexual relationships outside of the marriage. Okay, So I mean, yeah,

45
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,480
Speaker 1: so we'll use that working definition. But I do think

46
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,160
Speaker 1: we may want to kind of touch on what's happening

47
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,400
Speaker 1: with like social media, because I hadn't thought about that,

48
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,919
Speaker 1: but I think that that probably is something that's important

49
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:28,240
Speaker 1: to discuss. Okay, Okay, all right. So so one of

50
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 1: the things that I was most curious about and really

51
00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 1: excited to hear about related to your work is, UM,

52
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 1: what are some of the factors and things that come

53
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 1: up that will maybe influence one partner to make them

54
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 1: decide whether they're going to try and work on the

55
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: relationship again or whether they're gonna call it quits after

56
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 1: an affair. Okay, So we know when anything, it's UM

57
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 1: individual choice. So what I do is talk to the parties.

58
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 1: Basically when they come see me, they goin to know

59
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 1: either they're gonna work on it or this is the

60
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 1: last go around. One thing what I try to do

61
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,480
Speaker 1: in my position is to not choose who's right or wrong,

62
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 1: but what's right. So what we do is we go

63
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 1: through all the processes and my ultimate goal is to

64
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,360
Speaker 1: give them the education they need to make the decision

65
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,160
Speaker 1: if they want to stay, but if they choose to uncouple,

66
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,719
Speaker 1: they have enough information so they can heal successfully. Because

67
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 1: that's a really big part of it, the whole thing

68
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 1: about the affair. If we're gonna stay togethering him, but

69
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: if we decide to uncouple, I need to know what

70
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 1: I need to do to heal also and to move on.

71
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,360
Speaker 1: So that's what I try to do, and that's why

72
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,840
Speaker 1: I always say shine a light on infidelity. So what

73
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 1: kinds of things need to happen to repair a relationship

74
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 1: and to begin to heal after an affair. One of

75
00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:01,040
Speaker 1: the major things is communication. Another thing is we have

76
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 1: to be open, not just communicate because a lot of

77
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 1: people say, oh, communication, what does that mean? I mean

78
00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:12,239
Speaker 1: honest communication. Um, we need to also discuss about what's

79
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 1: gonna happen next the infidel. For it to be successful

80
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,920
Speaker 1: has to be an agreement and has to have I

81
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 1: don't want to say remorseful, but to make it work,

82
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: it has to be some kind of remorse about the situation.

83
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,120
Speaker 1: So that's a lot of the big factors is to

84
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,280
Speaker 1: be remorseful. Okay, So you use the word that I'm

85
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 1: not sure everybody may be familiar with. So infidel, is

86
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: that the person who actually stepped outside of the marriage. Yes,

87
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 1: it's I'm sorry, it's the infidel. It's the infidel we

88
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 1: had the portrayed partner, because it's not really I'm not

89
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 1: gender biased. And one of the things I wanna let

90
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,719
Speaker 1: everybody know is that women are up there. We're having

91
00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 1: just amount a lot of affairs as men. So it's

92
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 1: not you to be um me and have more affairs. Well,

93
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 1: women are kind of catching up, So I don't like

94
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: to be in with same sex marriages and stuff. At

95
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,920
Speaker 1: that part, I already don't like to be gender biased,

96
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,240
Speaker 1: so I usually use infidel or the betrayed partner. It

97
00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 1: can be anybody got you, got you? So do you

98
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 1: see any differences? Um? If you know, like depending on

99
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 1: who is the one who has had the affair in

100
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 1: the relationship, difference is like what like in terms of

101
00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 1: healing or like differences and what the process looks like

102
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 1: after you know, they're trying to work on the relationship. Yeah,

103
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,720
Speaker 1: when men. It's a pride. It's a pride issue, UM

104
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 1: where women usually step out of them their pride is

105
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: just shattered because um if they can't understand how you

106
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,039
Speaker 1: could do this, and it was more of um what

107
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,839
Speaker 1: other people are gone to think? You know that you

108
00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,480
Speaker 1: did it to me? How can you do this to me?

109
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,160
Speaker 1: Even if it's it's just emotional or social media. They

110
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,160
Speaker 1: just can't get past that. But usually they work through it,

111
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 1: but they're the one thing is there is been on

112
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 1: as pride is more of shame UM and more blame.

113
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 1: Women I see tend to go enter and blame theirself

114
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,320
Speaker 1: and then project a lot of anger because they don't understand.

115
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 1: Women try to understand a lot more than me. Got you,

116
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 1: got you okay, okay? So what are your thoughts about this? Um?

117
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 1: So I've often heard that, UM, in order for the

118
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: relationship to really heal, that the person that who has

119
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: had the affair needs to kind of be open and

120
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: willing to answer any question that the betrayed partner has.

121
00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about like the amount of detail

122
00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 1: that the betrayed partner might actually want to have, because

123
00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times you think you want

124
00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 1: a lot of information UM, and sometimes that can be

125
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 1: really harmful. So what are your thoughts about that. That's

126
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 1: a perfect question, and I'm gonna say this, It depends

127
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 1: on the situation. Everybody is different. One part of my

128
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,080
Speaker 1: seventh that recovery method is the affair story. That is,

129
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 1: when the infidel tells the betrayed partner UM what happened

130
00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,280
Speaker 1: in the affair. The betrayed partner has a right to

131
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 1: ask honest questions about what happened and the affair, and

132
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 1: the infidel answered because that stops speculation because one thing

133
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: about affairs, we make affairs glamorous in our head, and

134
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 1: that's not really what happened. And sometimes the betrayed partner

135
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 1: is fixated on a story and until they get the

136
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 1: missing pieces, they can't they just can't move past it.

137
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,719
Speaker 1: So we set up a situation where the infidel can

138
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 1: tell the betray partner what happened. But like you know,

139
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 1: it comes with some caution, and that's why it helps

140
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 1: to have a mediator and in a safe um place,

141
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,440
Speaker 1: because then you have a lot of issues that you

142
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,720
Speaker 1: have to do if I'm violent, you know, uh, you know,

143
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 1: name cong just getting out of hand. So it comes

144
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 1: with a lot of caution, but you are right to

145
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,200
Speaker 1: fully heal that the betrayed partner does want to know

146
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 1: what happened, especially not so much of the sexual acts,

147
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: but just really want to know was it protected? M

148
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,960
Speaker 1: m m okay. And do you see a difference in

149
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 1: the recovery if it was like a one time kind

150
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,440
Speaker 1: of one nice thing kind of thing versus somebody having

151
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:42,400
Speaker 1: like a significant relationship with this other person. Yes. So, Um,

152
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can. We got time to

153
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 1: go onto this. But it's seven types of affairs that Okay,

154
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 1: So it's seven types of affairs we have the accidental affair, Yes,

155
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:59,160
Speaker 1: I said accidental. That the accidental affair if you kind

156
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: of think of as an accident, neither one of you

157
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,920
Speaker 1: were preparing for this to happen. Uh. It comes across

158
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 1: like uh long business meetings, Um, brown trees being crossed.

159
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 1: That shouldn't have It wasn't It was spontaneous. It wasn't

160
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 1: playing like we are gonna be together tomorrow. It wasn't playing.

161
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,560
Speaker 1: It just happened. Alcohol is usually involved. Um, so that's

162
00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,200
Speaker 1: what we consider accidental affair is not Believe me, I

163
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: wanted everybody know it's not an excuse. We're just saying

164
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 1: it's an accidental affair. Um. The other affair is an

165
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:41,280
Speaker 1: intimacy versus conflict avoidance, and those affairs are when uh,

166
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 1: to avoid something in your marriage, you don't do it

167
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 1: so you to avoid intimacy. You might not be intimate

168
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 1: with your partner to avoid the conflict, but then you

169
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 1: intimate with somebody else because it's less conflict. Then conflict

170
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,440
Speaker 1: avoidance is just saying you're the perfect husband. Yes, no,

171
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,560
Speaker 1: maybe so because you don't want any conflict in your marriage.

172
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:11,520
Speaker 1: But in the relationship the affair, you have a voice

173
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,680
Speaker 1: because that makes sense. Yeah, okay. And the third one

174
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: is like a philanderer. We know the philanderers. It's just

175
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 1: that it has nothing. Affairs has nothing to do with

176
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 1: the um portrayed person. It's just them. They have to

177
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,880
Speaker 1: feel the need for others to need them. Usually these

178
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,720
Speaker 1: are the playboys that they used to call on. These

179
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 1: are like, I don't even want to put a lot

180
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 1: of stuff on athletes. These just like our men that

181
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 1: they love their wife. They don't have anything to do

182
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 1: with their wives or the women. They love their husband,

183
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 1: but they just love to have sex with other people.

184
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with you know, marriage or viles.

185
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,080
Speaker 1: That's just there's their philanderers. They take care of their wife,

186
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,079
Speaker 1: their husband. They love them, but that's what they do, okay.

187
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,839
Speaker 1: UM entitlement unfair we UM. I don't want to keep

188
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 1: in that on UM athletes, but this is what we use.

189
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 1: And when you have a lot of money, a lot

190
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,960
Speaker 1: of status, a lot of cloud, some people think of

191
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 1: us like people in uniform or high economic like I'm

192
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 1: still gonna say, I got so many people that I see.

193
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to generalize, but it's hard because usually

194
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,199
Speaker 1: somebody where UM to society have higher standards for and

195
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,840
Speaker 1: they entitled. I can do all this, I'm entitled to

196
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 1: have this. We see this play out so much in

197
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 1: the media. UM. One of the things is that we

198
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,400
Speaker 1: talk about even royalty. I can have this, I'm entitled

199
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 1: to this. I can have a wife and I can

200
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,640
Speaker 1: have a mistress. You know that's a title man um

201
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,720
Speaker 1: to split self affair is really what it is if

202
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 1: you just think of it as at home, I'm this way,

203
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 1: but when I'm with my having affair, I'm another way.

204
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,640
Speaker 1: We look at taking say the housewife who take care

205
00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 1: of her husband don't have a voice. But when she's

206
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,160
Speaker 1: having a fair she liked b ds M, she likes

207
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 1: to she voiced. She can do this. It's like a

208
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,480
Speaker 1: whole different person. She is okay, or just like the husband,

209
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,600
Speaker 1: because UM, who is really um? Because husband's do get abused,

210
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 1: don't have a voice at home, don't have a position

211
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,000
Speaker 1: at home, don't have anything going at home. But they

212
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 1: get an affair where they're the man. They're getting affair.

213
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,960
Speaker 1: They have an affair with somebody. They're the man they

214
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,400
Speaker 1: think the most higher them. UM is just really a

215
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 1: split self. There are two different people as you hear

216
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 1: like double lives, um. The six one is the exit

217
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 1: affair and the exitus affair. And I have some of

218
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: those where the person just wants to get caught, you know,

219
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 1: they're they're on their way out anyway, they don't care.

220
00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,160
Speaker 1: And then but the person the person wants to the

221
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,680
Speaker 1: other betrayed partner want to work it out. The other

222
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 1: person just wants to you know, it's over. I knew

223
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,760
Speaker 1: you was gonna find out, you know, let's just end it.

224
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 1: So they just have an affair. So it's kind of

225
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,760
Speaker 1: like UM when people say you got one foot out

226
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 1: the door. So it's really got one foot out the door.

227
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 1: So you just have an affair, and that's what is.

228
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 1: It's on the exodus, on your way out. Um. The

229
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 1: last one is really the sexual addiction affair. This is

230
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 1: the affair that getting a lot of information a lot

231
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 1: of research about. In fact, as you know, if we

232
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 1: kind of wonder if sex is a can you be

233
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,920
Speaker 1: addicted to sex or is it just an impulse disorder?

234
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 1: With sexual edition affair is a person who just um,

235
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: is in a marriage, but has sex outside their marriage

236
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,280
Speaker 1: without consent. I'm gonna say, well, I'll consent from their partner.

237
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,240
Speaker 1: It's nothing more than that they just have sex outside

238
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: of their marriage. Okay. And I never knew that there

239
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 1: were seven different types of affairs. And what those seven

240
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: different types is seven different types of recovery is seven

241
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 1: different It's a lot of stuff that you can look at,

242
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,680
Speaker 1: and recovery is different from all of them. Mm hmmm okay, Okay.

243
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 1: So if you if you could guess or maybe like

244
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 1: just in your practice, is there a type or one

245
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,200
Speaker 1: or two types that you see the most most commonly probably, uh,

246
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 1: the intimacy avoidance affair. People who don't really feel that

247
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 1: they can talk to their partner and go outside and

248
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 1: get what they need. Um, accidental affairs mm hmmmmm. Yeah,

249
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 1: And I would imagine I mean, and this is definitely

250
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 1: not my area of expertise, but um, I would imagine

251
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 1: that maybe the accidental affairs are the hardest and maybe

252
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: UM have a recovery from because you know, I think

253
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: with the avoidant ones, you can kind of go back

254
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 1: and do some work around. Okay, what was missing in

255
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 1: the marriage and how do we kind of make it stronger.

256
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: But if it was like an accident like this just

257
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 1: kind of happened, you know, it feels like, okay, well,

258
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 1: how would you be able to prevent that from happening again?

259
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 1: And I'm glad you talked about that, because that's what

260
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,560
Speaker 1: if we talk about. That's my goal and my mission

261
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,600
Speaker 1: is to shine a lot on infidelity. We cannot assume monogamy.

262
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: We need to discuss what happened. If you are attracted

263
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: to somebody else, how are you going to know when

264
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,800
Speaker 1: to stop? It's okay to be attracted somebody else. Let's

265
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 1: talk about it. We don't talk about it, and we

266
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,680
Speaker 1: assume you can't fight monogamy with a promise you can't

267
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 1: fight it with vows. You can only do prevent you

268
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 1: is about talking about it, and that's one thing we

269
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,400
Speaker 1: don't do. So let me let me just be clear.

270
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,160
Speaker 1: So you propose that couples um kind of put this

271
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 1: on the table even before this becomes an issue, so

272
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: like after the affair has happened, it's really kind of

273
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 1: too late to start the discussion. You are saying it

274
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 1: should be a part of conversation, like even before anything

275
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 1: ever happened. Yes, I think that um preventatives can happen before,

276
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,199
Speaker 1: but far as when the couple choose to reconnect, we

277
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 1: need to start having a conversation. Because one thing is

278
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 1: nobody is immune to affairs. You don't bad people don't

279
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 1: have affairs. You don't have to have a bad marriage

280
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 1: to have an affair. You know, it's just a lot

281
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 1: of aspects that come to an affair. You know, people,

282
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 1: some people are put towards affairs, some people are pushed

283
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 1: towards affairs, and then society plays a big role in affairs.

284
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 1: It's so many dynamics to affair that these are the

285
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,439
Speaker 1: things we need to talk about and we're not talking

286
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,439
Speaker 1: about them. We're not talking about them. Two afterwards, we

287
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 1: think that because somebody say that they love us, that

288
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 1: they won't have affection towards nobody else because we're not

289
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,920
Speaker 1: talking about it and I'm not saying and another thing,

290
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,360
Speaker 1: UM with the person who will commenced the affair, when

291
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 1: I started talking about societal value, society and community. To me,

292
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,600
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about is how did you learn first

293
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 1: learn about infidelity? How was infidelity portraying your family or

294
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,159
Speaker 1: in your community, because that means a lot, because that

295
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,439
Speaker 1: kind of shapes how you feel about it. Now. To

296
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: have an affair is a choice. Please believe me. It's

297
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 1: a choice because you have everything you need, but you

298
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 1: have to make a choice to do that. So I

299
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 1: don't want everybody say, well, she acts like it just happened. No, no, no,

300
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,159
Speaker 1: it doesn't. Don't happen. There's a choice. You do have

301
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: a choice, you do have some control. But it helps

302
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: with communication. M So I do want to go back

303
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: to UM. Well a couple of different things. So first

304
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 1: I want to here and I'm not sure if I

305
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,159
Speaker 1: missed this. You broke up a little bit earlier in

306
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,479
Speaker 1: the conversation. UM, did you outline with the seven steps

307
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,919
Speaker 1: where in terms of recovery. Did you say that? No? Okay,

308
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 1: so can you share that with us? Okay? The seven steps, um.

309
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 1: The first is like you know, you do the the intake. Um,

310
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 1: we have like uh, really talking about what our goals are,

311
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 1: what we wanna do, and we call that the commitment stage,

312
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, recommitting, you know, making our rules. The second

313
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:33,239
Speaker 1: step is like the fair story. So, um, were at

314
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: first the fair step is really making sure the affair

315
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 1: is over too. You have to make sure that the

316
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 1: affair is over. So that's one thing is that's the

317
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 1: biggest thing. And see I have a no secrets policy,

318
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,159
Speaker 1: so I don't keep secrets, so you can't come until

319
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 1: you know that, do not. You have to be really

320
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: to end affair. And so the first STA is like

321
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 1: the commitment and we even and write a letter to

322
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 1: the fair partner letting them know that I have to

323
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: end it. You know, some people, is this something that

324
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: would actually be given to the person. It's up to

325
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: the couple because right now, the seventh step is something

326
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: that uh we do together. Okay, the seventh step something

327
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 1: we do together so many times, you know, because we're

328
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: trying to take the secret out of it. We gotta

329
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 1: take the secrecy out of it. So we're gonna do

330
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 1: these steps together. So that's why we make the UM.

331
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,440
Speaker 1: When we make the commitment, we make the commitment to

332
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 1: each other. We're gonna choose do we want to tell

333
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 1: the third party that is over? Are you? Some people

334
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,239
Speaker 1: choose not to write it, some people choose to write it,

335
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: and some people choose to even me mm hmmm mm hmm. Okay, okay,

336
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: So you facilitated like meetings like that. No, No, I

337
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: don't facilitate the third party meetings, but I really help

338
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: with UH. That comes with strong culture or some people

339
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: sometimes stuff. A lot of stuff happened outside of therapy,

340
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 1: and it just lets you know what happened. It just

341
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: lets you know all by the way we met with song,

342
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: so I'll be like, what you know? So then we

343
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: So then we do the Fair story and that's UM.

344
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: That's when we talk about really what happened at Fair, UM,

345
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 1: preparing for the disclosure, UM, talking setting up the apology,

346
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: you know, really being authentic, not just and really really

347
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 1: not being remorseful for getting caught, but really talk about

348
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: the pain and hurt. So we really get deep in that.

349
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: So that's really learning a fair story, and we kind

350
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: of have things that we talk about that need to

351
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: be discussed because the portrayed partners are all these like

352
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 1: a mini movie because it's PTSD, so UM and that's

353
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't understand that finding out about

354
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: UM an affair and being a victim of affair is

355
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: it's kind of compared parable to h trauma. The experienced PTSD,

356
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: they have flashbacks that have everything. So what the fair

357
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: story is trying to do is put all those pieces

358
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: together so they can move on to the next step.

359
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 1: So that's the a fair story. And then we talk

360
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: about personal healing. We talk about emotions, obsessions, how to

361
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: manage emotions to the unfaithful partner. UM. Really just trying

362
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: to heal personally together. I know it sounds crazy, but yeah, personally,

363
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: but together with the support of each other because remember,

364
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: first we didn't we had is um separated life. But

365
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: now we're going to do everything together because this is

366
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: the recommitment to the marriage. Okay. And then one thing

367
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,959
Speaker 1: that I know is hard, but I'm a sex therapist

368
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: and this is one of my part. Even though the

369
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: step the step four is sex and intimacy, I know

370
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 1: who you don't even like this person, you very don't

371
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: want to have sex. So what we do is still

372
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: from the beginning, we try to have intimacy, not necessarily

373
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:39,719
Speaker 1: UM sex, but even touching, cuddling or something even sitting

374
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: next to each other or hold their hands. You have

375
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: to start building that intimate bond to see that UM,

376
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: we're secure and grounding each other and we're gonna work

377
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: through this to each other. Eventually it might end up

378
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: in sex, but we need some kind of intimate touch

379
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: to make sure that we're on the right path. Some

380
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: women can go full fledge and just start having more

381
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: sexual UM activities. Others need a little bit more time.

382
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: But from the first thing, we really say, even though

383
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: if you choose not to, we need to form intimacy

384
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: because we're working on this together. So to work on

385
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: something together, we can have to do something that we

386
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: never done. And that's what we talked about sex star marriages.

387
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: We just talked about UM setting up UM sex. And

388
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: when I say sex is all different aspects and sex,

389
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: I just don't mean intercourse. We UM we have physical connection.

390
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: UM five is emotional needs. This is when we really

391
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: talk about what actually emotions do we need because as

392
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: you know couples, we don't talk. We don't talk. We

393
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: assume and we don't talk because what might up we

394
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: liked when we were this point in our lives, it

395
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,959
Speaker 1: might not work in this point in our We don't know.

396
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: We age daily things change, so we have to really

397
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: and this is where I put in checkpoints. We set

398
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: up schedule weekly check in is how I'm doing, how

399
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 1: you're feeling, really trying to get that emotional bond and

400
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: really trying to secure that emotional that emotional needs. We

401
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: do a needs assessment where um, we talk about we

402
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: do one person do it and another person do it

403
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: and not only talk about the needs about how would

404
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: you like me to give it to you? Because it's

405
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: easy to say I want you to love me more,

406
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: but what does that look like? Right? And then step

407
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: six is forgiveness. UM, this is where we talk about

408
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: genuine forgiveness. We talk about what you need to forgive, um,

409
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: steps to forgive and are we ready to forgive? And

410
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: then seven is just moving forward? So that mean we're

411
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: just taking everything that we talked about and how can

412
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: we move forward? We talk about relaxed prevention, you know,

413
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: and we even talk about if we're gonna own a couple.

414
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: One thing about the Seventh Step program, it's giving you information.

415
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: If you choose to recommit, you can, but if you don't,

416
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: you have all the information that you need to move forward. Because,

417
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: like I love to tell people, just because you leave

418
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: the situation, the trauma is still there. So just because

419
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: you need the situation doesn't mean it's gonna make it better. Because,

420
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: as we all know, you carry that baggage with you.

421
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: So if you don't heal properly, if you don't heal properly,

422
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: you're just gonna take those lack of expectations or high

423
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: expectations or low confidence to the next relationship and just

424
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: start all over again. So is this work always done

425
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: like you're I'm trying to get an idea of, like

426
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: what your sessions look like. Is it always that you're

427
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: meeting with both of the parties or do you do

428
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: some individual sessions as well? One thing is I try

429
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: to meet, uh once we're tired. The thing to recommend

430
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 1: I usually have an individual session with each party, but

431
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: the rest of the sessions are done together. Uh. If somebody, like,

432
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: if somebody's stuck at a stage, I usually refer out

433
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: this is more coaching than therapy. If somebody just like

434
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: say in the forgiveness just say, you have you stuck

435
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: on forgiveness. It may be some internal factors that happened

436
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: in your life that you just can't forget. So I

437
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: refer out to work with an individual therapists to work

438
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: with them on forgiveness, so when they come back, we

439
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: had a better um way to work for how it

440
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: looks for the couple? Okay, okay, So and that's one

441
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: thing I got to make sure. The Seventh Step program

442
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: is a coaching. It's a coaching, so it's not therapy.

443
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: I really don't go into do therapy. I refer out

444
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: the therapist for this one. Okay, okay, So how long

445
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: you know, on average, and I know this probably looks

446
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: different for a lot of couples, but on average, like

447
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: how long do the seven steps take two to work through?

448
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: The Seventh Step program is a commitment of ninety days, um,

449
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: but it can take longer than that because sometimes we

450
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: have to stay longer. Um. Just say, we might spend

451
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: a great amount of time on a fair story, you know,

452
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: because getting it off, you know, stopping getting it through,

453
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: but we gotta push through it. But we might spend

454
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: a lot of time on sex and intimacy, you know.

455
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: So it's a ninety day program and it's follow up,

456
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, just like with anything UM, you just don't

457
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: learn something and just say, oh I learned and now

458
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: know it's following up, follow up, it's maintenance. You have

459
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: to check in with each other some I offer you

460
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: check in with me, we see how everything going. Re

461
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: last prevention. What's going on? Are you utilizing the things

462
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: we talked about? Okay, the work is really done outside

463
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 1: the session? Yeah, I mean it definitely sounds like a

464
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: lot of work as I hear you talk about it,

465
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: which if you're if you're trying to rebuild your marriage,

466
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: then you know that will take a lot of effort

467
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: in hard work for sure. It is. Yeah. Yeah, So

468
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts around UM? You mentioned like the

469
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: letter that would maybe need to be written to the

470
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: UM a fair partner UM. But what are your thoughts

471
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: about like does UM the connection need to be dissolved completely?

472
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: Like let's say they had an affair with the coworker,

473
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: is the suggestion then that they need to find a

474
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: new job, like can there be no contact or what

475
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: are your thoughts about that it depends on if it's

476
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: a sexual relationship with a job at the job interferes

477
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: with the healings. They have to come to gather and

478
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: feel like maybe that you should leave. It's as a together,

479
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: we're together. So they both agree that this is not

480
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: going to work. They need agree to move on to

481
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: another job. Some things can't be we I got stories

482
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: about the third party too, but that's a whole another show.

483
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: And I know I'm sound like I'm repeat myself, but

484
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: I just want to say anything. They chooses together, so

485
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: it's a chance that they make together. If they feel

486
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: like um infidel feels like they can continue to work

487
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: without any drama, everything is dissolved. Fine if they feel

488
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: like it's not gonna be in temptation. But that's where

489
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: honesty come through. You know, I don't feel like I

490
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: can honestly go to work after I did this, this, this, this,

491
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: and look at her, look at my coworker, look at him,

492
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: look at my co workers. I think I need to

493
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: go somewhere else. This is when we really had an

494
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: intake session. This is when we really get to the

495
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: route of stuff. Are you remorseful, are you ready to change?

496
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: Are you willing to uh reconnect and fight for your marriage.

497
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: These are the things that happen. And this will also

498
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: the factors that influence if the affair um if to

499
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: stay or to leave. So these are a lot of

500
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: factors that influenced that too. Okay, So really in this

501
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: intake session, you're getting a lot of information that will

502
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: let you know whether you even can move on to

503
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: these next six steps. Yeah, because that's that's the one

504
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: we see the I see the commitment, you can I

505
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: set up the environment, I can see the reluctance, I

506
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: can see the commitment. I can see um. You can

507
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: just see it, and I just let them know there's

508
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: no reason to wasteeing it all the time. And sometimes

509
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: I send them off for individual to get there what

510
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: they want to do together before they come back and couple,

511
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: because sometimes you can't work on we. We are working

512
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: on me, you know, because sometimes in different um off fairs,

513
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: we get married sometimes to to heal from something else.

514
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: So an affair happens in the midst of alltist chaos.

515
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: So I'm not healed. I'm not a whole person. This

516
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 1: affair just bought in the light something that I've been

517
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: struggled with all the time, got you, you know, and

518
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: affairs just don't mean divorce. You know, people stay together

519
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: after affairs, and and let the record show that some affairs,

520
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: I know, it's hard to believe bring people closer together. Yeah,

521
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: I definitely have often heard that that, you know, relationships

522
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: can be much stronger because I think you know, all

523
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: of this open and honest communication that wasn't present before.

524
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: Now there's kind of like a breeding ground of that,

525
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: and you kind of carry that throughout the rest of

526
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: the relationship. Yeah, and get consent. I mean, you don't

527
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: assume monogamy. You talk about it. So sometimes you asked,

528
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, we I love you, you love me, But

529
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: do you u to have an open marriage? Do you

530
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: think I fulfill? You said, I mean, this is where

531
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: we have honest communication and just be open. You'd be

532
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: open to given and open to receive. And it's a

533
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: shared space, and so many people are scared of that.

534
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: So I said, if you're so scared, why are you

535
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: even married to this person? How can you be married

536
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: with somebody you can't talk to? M hmm, Okay. So

537
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: I do want to go back to the whole role

538
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: of social media because I would have I would imagine

539
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: that that has um you know, I mean and people

540
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: have always had affairs, right, I mean that's not new.

541
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: But I do think with the advent of social media

542
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: and how easy it is for us to connect with

543
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,239
Speaker 1: people around the world, UM, it has added you know,

544
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: like these different uh complexities to you know, the ability

545
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: or the ease at which you might have an affair. UM.

546
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: So how do you see social media kind of playing

547
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: a role in some of the work that you do.

548
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: Social media, um is what you make it. Um. It

549
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: comes with how you use it, how to utilize it,

550
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: what are you getting from it? Uh? Social media is

551
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: away sometimes when we talk about the split sealves. You know,

552
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: social media is something that you can live and that's

553
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: not even you. So just say, if you have an

554
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: affair and you don't have it for you can recreate

555
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: yourself on the internet. You can live like somebody else.

556
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: You only show people snippets of your life. So it's

557
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: another part that something is else's internally you're fighting with

558
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: something and it just leads to a fair affairs opportunity.

559
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: You know, you don't think of big getting about getting

560
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: called and self affairs opportunity has social media open up

561
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: for affair, yes, I mean, but then we got to

562
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: ask ourselves about I hear people who got share social

563
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: media's accounts. You know, they they want to be on

564
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: they want to know each other. But then then we

565
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: have the trust issue, you know, everything, so we have

566
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: to really look at the communication and stuff in the relationship.

567
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 1: I just think, uh, if you are in a relationship,

568
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: that social media is not gonna make you do anything.

569
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I think that, um, the door is already open,

570
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: like they say, the door is already open for anything,

571
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: and that's when you really need to have an honest communication.

572
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: And why are you even doing it? So what are

573
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: your thoughts about UM? You know, because I often see too,

574
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: UM like people who want to then be able to

575
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: check their partners um text messages all the time and

576
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: want to be able to go through and all of that,

577
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: Like where does that or what are the guidelines around that?

578
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: If we are going to be UM healing and working

579
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: towards recommitting in our marriage again, you do what works

580
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: best for you. I know some people who don't even

581
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: choose not to even have internet on their phone, UM,

582
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: who are moving social media comments because their commitment is

583
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: to their spouse and then they do one because they

584
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: don't want any doubt. But um, again I asked. We

585
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: talk about trust issues, we talk about forgiving, and I

586
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: always asked the person, if you look for something, you're

587
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: gonna find it. So what's the boundaries? Like you said,

588
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: so we look at okay, social media, let'sons okay. One

589
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: thing about it, for recommitting is recontracting. So you have

590
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: a social media contract. It's sound elementary, but it's in

591
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: black and white. Right. Can I like other people pictures?

592
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: Can I befriend these people? What's awful? Limits? Instead of

593
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: waiting for it to happen, let's talk about it. Can

594
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: I comment on somebody that they got a nice butt

595
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: or they look good today? You know what's crossing the

596
00:36:53,440 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: boundaries is again, it's communicating about it and recommitment, recontract.

597
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: That's one so great about love and everything. People think

598
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: that you can just say one thing in the last,

599
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: but no, you can always recontract, recontract. If you want

600
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: to know something you don't understand, let's sit down and

601
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: discuss it. I can't tell you what's wrong if we

602
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: didn't discuss it. Well, I don't like you doing that.

603
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: I don't like how that makes our marriage look bad?

604
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: People see you and let's talk about it. Yeah, so

605
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: that brings me to you another question around UM, you know,

606
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: like I think sometimes people might decide to actually work

607
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: on their marriage again after infidelity. But I do think

608
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: that UM, the community and like maybe your friend circle

609
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: and your worries about you know, like what other people

610
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,439
Speaker 1: are going to say can impact your decision about whether

611
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: you're going to try to work on it again. UM,

612
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: So what would you say to UM like support circles?

613
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: Like how can they be supportive to UM like a

614
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: couple who's continuing to work on their marriage after infidelity.

615
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: I think that if oh my goodness, I got so

616
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: much to say about that. UM, you need to surround

617
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: yourself with people who have your best interests in mind. Okay,

618
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: some people might think you're you shouldn't go back. Some

619
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: people think you should work on your marriage. If you

620
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: choose to go back. I'm not saying that you should

621
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: uh leave the people who said you shouldn't go back,

622
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 1: but you should have an open dialogue with them that

623
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: I really understand how you feel. But I want to

624
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: get back into my relationship, and I hope and I

625
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 1: wish that you support me on this, you know, really

626
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: making that UM a statement and really showing other people

627
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: that you're gonna be for UM for your marriage and

628
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: really you in informity because that's what happened so much

629
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: that when people come in for affairs, believe it or not,

630
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: they're so worried about who knows. That's one of the

631
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: big This thing is shame. How could you do this

632
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: to me? How could you do this to us? You know,

633
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: what are people going to think? And they shame and

634
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: then they start to blame you know. So that's the

635
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: biggest thing to find out about. Affair is more traumatic

636
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: than the affair, believe it or not. Yeah, So you

637
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: would propose that they have a conversation with their friend

638
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: groups about you know, I asked them from support and

639
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: if they don't you, I don't think you should really

640
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: um fire them, but choose, just choose when to expand

641
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 1: your horizons, because that's and one thing is I don't

642
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: talk about what's right or wrong? Who right around? I'll

643
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: talk about what's right or wrong. And one thing that

644
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: we talk about is the affair is so bigger than

645
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: me and you. Society has a big place, a major

646
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: role in affairs. And when I tell people that, they

647
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: just look at me. I said, it does. When is

648
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: the first time you you know about affairs? How did

649
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: you learn about affairs? You know, how was the affairs

650
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: portraying your partner, your family? I mean, because our experience

651
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: becomes our expectations. That's why we need to talk about it.

652
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: And look at how society, I mean, to be a

653
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: mistress is glamorized. You know, it's to be a mistress

654
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: is glamorized and everything. And I mean, they just got

655
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: so many perks. So you think until you really talk

656
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: to a mistress, you know, So I think, really society

657
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: has and to talk about that, to talk about you know,

658
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: how do you feel about um, how affairs are, how

659
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: do your friends support it? We don't talk about infidelity.

660
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: Infidelity is done in secret. You know, it's like a

661
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 1: secret society. So we shine a light on it. Maybe

662
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,959
Speaker 1: it won't be so fun anymore we start talking about it.

663
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not as well all people. When you start

664
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: hearing some of these affair stories, they're not really glamorous.

665
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: They're right, they're really not. But we got to talk

666
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: about it to hear it. Excellent excellent advice. So what

667
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 1: resources would you offer to people who are maybe struggling

668
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: with this or you know, like need some more information

669
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: about UM, like do they want to continue to work

670
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: on their marriage after finding out about an affair. One

671
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: thing is before you look at any resources, I would

672
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: just say, UM, do an internal check in with yourself.

673
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: Really look and see what how you feeling? UM really

674
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: a pro and colmless, really looking at the relationship. How

675
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: is the relationship even before the affair? You know, really

676
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: thinking about and yes, I'm gonna say it, really thinking

677
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: about how did you contribute to the affair? I know

678
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: this is a session that I know. I tell people

679
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: that and they look at me and I said, yeah,

680
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you Max everybody because I want to

681
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: do that good big internal thought because contrary to people believe,

682
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: some people know about affair. And you know, when they withhold,

683
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: they know that they know about it. It's only when

684
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: other people find it out about it that they got

685
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: a problem. So I say, during internal check in with yourself,

686
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: and then when you feel like you grounded and you

687
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: know what you need UM. Infidelity Recovery Institute has a

688
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: lot of good articles. It's a lot of great blocks

689
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: out there um, and then to determine. Uh, we have

690
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: an Infidelity Recovery Institute has a quiz. Um gonna have

691
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: an affair affair aftercres my website, I'm gonna have a quiz.

692
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 1: It will tell you the types of affair and what's

693
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: the healing process look like. Um, you see what you

694
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: wanna do? Talk to your partner, is your partner remorseful,

695
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: decide if you really want to go on with the marriage.

696
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: If you do, getting the tools to move on, and

697
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: if you decide to uncouple, also get the tools to

698
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: make it successful. Perfect, perfect, and all of this would

699
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: be included in the show notes so that people can

700
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: find it really easily. So can you give us your

701
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: website and where people can find you on social media? Okay,

702
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: my website is Kaleidoscope Services l l C dot Org.

703
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: I am on Facebook as Ronell Nelson Kaleidoscope Services with

704
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: Ronelle Nelson. I am on Instagram, Ask Noir no e

705
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: sex Therapists. Um. I Also, just because I'm so am,

706
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: I mentioned to talk about infidelity that I have another

707
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: web style call um a fair Aftercare that's in the

708
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: process of being put together where I'm gonna have all

709
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: the resources, um support groups and all that at a

710
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: Fair Aftercare and Instagram at the same name, at a

711
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: Fair after Career. Okay perfect, I'm definitely looking forward to

712
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: seeing more of those resources. Well, thank you so much

713
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: for joining us to day, Ronelle. I really appreciate you

714
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: having this conversation and sharing so much information with us. Yes,

715
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: I enjoy any time, any time. Thank you so. I

716
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: hope that you can appreciate all of the great information

717
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: that Ronew shared with us, and all of the resources

718
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: that she mentioned will be included on the show notes.

719
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: You can find those at Therapy for Black Girls dot

720
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: com slash session, and please make sure to give us

721
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: your feedback about the episode hashtag using tv G in session.

722
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: On social media, you can find us on Twitter at

723
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: Therapy for the Number four be Girls, and you can

724
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram and Facebook at Therapy for Black Girls.

725
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation with you real soon.

726
00:45:08,719 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: Take it care a FI