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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety six, a man by the name of

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Speaker 1: Hulan Bernard Howard allowed separate dealers to sell crack from

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Speaker 1: the front porch and basement of his home in the

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Speaker 1: crime ridden neighborhood of West Philadelphia, while his girlfriend Lena

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Speaker 1: Laws would buy crack from anyone she could. At around

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Speaker 1: ten thirty pm on August sixth, Miss Laws invited small

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Speaker 1: time dealer Jamar Gladden over to buy some crack. Just then,

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Speaker 1: another of mister Howard's dealers, Jamel Lawson, along with a

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Speaker 1: man known as Stink, entered the home, both armed to

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Speaker 1: settle a drug dead. They shot and killed mister Howard

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Speaker 1: and robbed their small time rival Jamar Gladden in the process.

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Speaker 1: With the eyewitness testimony of his Laws, who had just

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Speaker 1: smoked crack, investigators would manufacture a theory of events that

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Speaker 1: would place Jamar Gladden as acting along with the two

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Speaker 1: armed robbers Jamel Lawson and Stink. But who was Stink Well,

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Speaker 1: Jamar's childhood friend, Terence Lewis was known as Stink, and

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Speaker 1: an anonymous tip would name Terrence as the other arm robber. Surprise,

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Speaker 1: it didn't quite matter to the Philadelphia police that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't the right one. All three men were sent to

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Speaker 1: life without parole on the word of miss Laws. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: those several eyewitnesses, including both of his co defendants, would

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Speaker 1: come forward to deny Terrence's involvement. Two Supreme Court rulings

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Speaker 1: would also aid his cause, and then, working together, Terrence's

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Speaker 1: lawyers along with the Philadelphia Conviction Integrity Unit led by

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Speaker 1: Patricia Cummings, would uncover a serious Brady violation, revealing that

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Speaker 1: the police knew the real identity of Stink all the

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Speaker 1: way back in nineteen ninety six. This is Wrongful Conviction

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Speaker 1: with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.

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Speaker 1: Today you're going to hear the story of Terence Lewis Terrence.

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Speaker 1: First of all, welcome to the show. I always say

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Speaker 1: I'm happier here, but I'm sorry you had to be

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Speaker 1: here in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you, Jason.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, I'm really excited to be able to share

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Speaker 1: your remarkable story and your humanity and your spirit with

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Speaker 1: our audience. So let's get right into it. So, first

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Speaker 1: of all, you grew up in.

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Speaker 2: Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PI.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean I know, having spoken with Meek Mill

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Speaker 1: on another episode of the show. Of course he's younger

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Speaker 1: than you are, but he talks about growing up in

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Speaker 1: the streets of Philadelphia and how trying to stay alive

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Speaker 1: was a challenge in and of itself.

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Speaker 2: You know, being exposed at a young age to murder,

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Speaker 2: the current police brutality that was norm you know for

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Speaker 2: those who are under privileged or come from you know,

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Speaker 2: all our poor neighborhoods.

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Speaker 1: You were as a young man subject to dodging not

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Speaker 1: only bullets from gangs, but also trying to avoid the

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Speaker 1: confrontations that have now become so much a part of

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Speaker 1: the public consciousness as we see in the era and

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Speaker 1: now where everyone has a video camera in their pocket.

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Speaker 1: But back then it was in the shadows. True, And

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the nineties when things were pretty crazy,

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Speaker 1: well everywhere, but in Philadelphia, especially especially as a young

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Speaker 1: black man growing up there. What was that like?

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Speaker 2: You know, in West Philadelphia where I grew up, it

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Speaker 2: was crime infested, you know, the war on drugs, and

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Speaker 2: the streets was in dis array. Me growing up in

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Speaker 2: a single parent household. My father was you know, overseas

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Speaker 2: and the military dedicated his life so I grew up

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Speaker 2: with me and my siblings underneath the care of my mother,

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Speaker 2: who was no other than a high school the Phona,

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Speaker 2: you know, tried to struggle and you know, and keep

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Speaker 2: a roof over our head. You know, I've been working

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Speaker 2: since nineteen ninety four, the legal age, with the consent

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Speaker 2: of my mother to be able to work as a

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Speaker 2: youth counselor so from ninety four all the way up

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Speaker 2: to my abduction, you know, I always work.

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Speaker 1: Let's fast forward to ten thirty pm, around ten thirty

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Speaker 1: pm on August sixth of nineteen ninety six. Is that

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Speaker 1: on that night, three young men entered the home of

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Speaker 1: a guy named Hulan Howard, and according to Howard's girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: Lena Laws, they were there to settle a drug debt.

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Speaker 1: One of the men fired a shotgun into the ceiling.

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Speaker 1: Again this is her version of events, before shooting and

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Speaker 1: killing mister Howard when he couldn't pay what he owed.

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Speaker 1: So she later changed that story because there were no

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Speaker 1: holes found in the ceiling and she changed the story

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Speaker 1: to that the man had loaded a shotgun shell. Then

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Speaker 1: another one of the men shot mister Howard with a

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Speaker 1: handgun and they stole twenty dollars from his Laws and

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Speaker 1: fled the scene.

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Speaker 2: You're right in regards to you know, her version of events,

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Speaker 2: whichever one, because there were many. One of her narratives

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Speaker 2: is that three guys arrived together. That's not true. One

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Speaker 2: of the three men, Jamar Gladden, is a victim himself,

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Speaker 2: and the record reflects this that when Jamar Gladden was

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Speaker 2: summoned by Lena Laws to come near, unfortunately Jamel Laws

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Speaker 2: and his cohort also arrived there. Freak chance, right, but

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Speaker 2: nonetheless true story, and the Philadelphia Police Department intertwined and

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Speaker 2: weave a whole case together and killed three birds with

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Speaker 2: one stone.

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Speaker 1: Although you know you were the bird that wasn't even

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Speaker 1: in the nest. Exactly so, Miss Laws. According to her,

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Speaker 1: she knew one of the men, a guy named Jamel

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Speaker 1: Lawson you mentioned as Mellow. His nickname was Melo, and

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Speaker 1: he had dell drugs out of the basement of the

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Speaker 1: guy who was murdered, mister Howard. She also knew the

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Speaker 1: guy with the shotgun by his nickname, which was Stink.

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Speaker 2: Exactly when Lena Laws was telling the police what happened

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Speaker 2: at night, what transpired, she didn't want to tell the

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Speaker 2: narrative that I called Jamar Gladden and it come. She

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Speaker 2: just said, hey, look, three guys came and she said

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Speaker 2: who was Jamar Gladden? Jamel Lawson? And then they say

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Speaker 2: who is this third other individual? They said goes by

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Speaker 2: the name of State, who we come to find and

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Speaker 2: know was a day Muhammad and the cops knew this

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Speaker 2: the second day after the interviewing.

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Speaker 1: Lena last, did you know any of these people?

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Speaker 2: Jamar Gladden is a childhood friend of mine who, sad

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Speaker 2: to say, but true, was a petty drug dealer back then.

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Speaker 2: Him and Lena Laws had a personal drug relation, and

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Speaker 2: unfortunately for him, he so happened to get involved with

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Speaker 2: that crack house mister Howard home. He was running like

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Speaker 2: a crack enterprise and he had some individual sell from

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Speaker 2: the porch and he had Jamel Laws and sell from

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Speaker 2: the basement, and that created a rivalry. So when Jamel

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Speaker 2: Lawson heard that Jamar was also peddling drugs out of

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Speaker 2: what he deemed to be his enterprise because he had

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Speaker 2: more drugs and he was the neighborhood drug dealer, an aggressor,

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Speaker 2: he came there with another armed individual to confront mister

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Speaker 2: Howard and Jamel lost and then his coht you know,

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Speaker 2: robbed everybody.

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Speaker 1: This scenario that you just painted is given me like

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Speaker 1: anxiety just thinking about it. You have the two different

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Speaker 1: guys showing up at the same time, one of them

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Speaker 1: brings another guy with him in this drug den, there's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of different tensions. There's a competition for the

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Speaker 1: drug trade at the time. There's money that's owed, there's guns.

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Speaker 1: There's the woman who's almost certainly high at the time.

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Speaker 2: And the record reflects that she smoked crack cocaine fifteen

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Speaker 2: minutes prior to the actual murderers up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I can remember being drunk or high at

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Speaker 1: different times, but how high do you have to be

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Speaker 1: to mix up whether or not somebody shot a shotgun

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Speaker 1: into the ceiling.

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Speaker 2: That was one of the statements that was made. Remember

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Speaker 2: I was the guy allegedly with the shotgun, But she

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Speaker 2: had told a different officer at the time, Sergeant Mandela,

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Speaker 2: that the guy who fired the shotgun in the air,

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Speaker 2: he turned and he shot mister Howard and the guy.

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Speaker 1: Was named Mellow.

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Speaker 2: This is a whole other different version of events in

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Speaker 2: regards to what happened in one. Like you said, never

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Speaker 2: was no shotgun fired in the ceiling, nor was mister

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Speaker 2: Howard killed from a shotgun from his back. Now, mind you.

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Speaker 2: Lena Laws also said that she don't know one gun

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Speaker 2: from another. However, when it come to find out it's

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Speaker 2: no shotgun in the ceiling, she said, oh no, he

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Speaker 2: didn't fire it. Stinkthdened fire. Terrence didn't fire it. He

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Speaker 2: racked it. So my lawyer was smart enough and wise

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Speaker 2: enough to say, well, where did you learn the term rat,

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Speaker 2: because prior to that you believe he fired it, right,

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Speaker 2: She said, yeah, yeah, I learned the term rat from

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Speaker 2: the detectives. This is all in the record. This is

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Speaker 2: in the trial transcripts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So they just scripted it like a play. They

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Speaker 1: gave her the lines to say, and she said them exactly.

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Speaker 2: So it's obvious that she lied. But we don't know

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Speaker 2: the details in regards to why or to what extent

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Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Police Department to hersty but we do know

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Speaker 2: for effect they help her piece together a story. Why,

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Speaker 2: we don't know, I mean, other than to close the case.

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Speaker 1: Over the summer of nineteen ninety seven, so this is

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Speaker 1: sometime after the crime police arrested Jamar Gladden, who was

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Speaker 1: nineteen and Jamel Lawson, who was twenty two, And the

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Speaker 1: investigation grew cold after that until an anonymous tip came

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Speaker 1: into the Pennsylvania Crime Commission and that's where you got

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in at seventeen years old. Somebody called in

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Speaker 1: and said that you were sometimes known by the nickname

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Speaker 1: of Stink, and you were arrested. Now this is almost

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Speaker 1: a year and a half after the crime on December

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Speaker 1: twentieth of nineteen ninety seven. Had you ever been known

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Speaker 1: as Stink?

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Speaker 2: My grandma there said as a child, I used to

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Speaker 2: stink my diaper. So this those thinks think, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was. That was my name. So the police say,

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Speaker 2: you know what, Jamar knows a guy named Stink as well.

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Speaker 2: And that's how I was involved because they said, well, hey, Terrence,

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Speaker 2: he knows Jamar Gladden. So if he's from amongst that neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: and if he knows of individuals that do wrong, then

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Speaker 2: he is an evil seed himself. And it was an

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Speaker 2: open shed case for the Philadelphia Police Department.

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Speaker 1: It took a lot of people to sort of go

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Speaker 1: along with this, and any one of them could have

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Speaker 1: stood up and said, wait a minute, this doesn't make

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Speaker 1: any damn sense. Why are we listening to this woman?

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Speaker 1: And do you have an anonymous tip that maybe or

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Speaker 1: maybe not you were called stink? But was there any

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Speaker 1: other evidence connecting you to this crime?

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Speaker 2: No other evidence whatsoever. My life hinged on testimony of

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Speaker 2: admitted crack user who was high literally fifteen moments before

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Speaker 2: it happened. But in addition to that, like you know,

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Speaker 2: we can't forget, what added to, you know, my wrong

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Speaker 2: incarceration The fact that at that time, Jason, the culture

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Speaker 2: of Philadelphia DA Office as well as police department, it

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Speaker 2: was the war on drugs. They was at war. They

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Speaker 2: was at war, so I became a casualty of war.

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Speaker 2: The evidence pointed to something other, but generally speaking, the

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia Police department it was getting over time to solve cases.

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Speaker 2: And the more cases they saw, the more overtime they get,

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Speaker 2: so it made sense to flip cases quicker. And this

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Speaker 2: was what they did up until this day, what we

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Speaker 2: witnessing now. I was poor, I was it was nothing.

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Speaker 2: I was a peon, I was black. I can be discarded,

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Speaker 2: But forgive me for dropping off. Like I said, I

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Speaker 2: getting emotional when I think of how they just destroyed

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Speaker 2: my life you know, growing up in the projects. I

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Speaker 2: remember how the police used to swarm the neighborhood drug

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Speaker 2: dealers and beat them senseless. There was no cameras at

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Speaker 2: that time. When they left after they got finished kicking

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Speaker 2: a hole and they were trying to kick a hole

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Speaker 2: in the head, they just sometimes they wrest them and

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Speaker 2: sometimes they used to just leave him here. And I

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Speaker 2: said that to say, because I used to witness this,

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Speaker 2: you know, a couple of times a week. And you know, Jason,

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Speaker 2: this was the way and culture at that time of

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Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Police Department. If they wasn't bashing the guys

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Speaker 2: heads in, then they was definitely penny cases on them

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Speaker 2: and locking them up. So when I look back in retrospect,

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Speaker 2: all I can do now still is to shake my head.

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Speaker 2: And when I look, you know, at what's going on

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Speaker 2: around us with George Floyd. This has it's been going

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Speaker 2: on forever, you know. Mind you A whole case was

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Speaker 2: manufactured against me at the age of seventeen and spent

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Speaker 2: twenty one years of my life. So this is why

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Speaker 2: I want to tell my story now.

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Speaker 1: The arrests happened, and the charges are extremely serious. Lawson

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Speaker 1: and Gladden were both charged with first degree murder, armed robbery,

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Speaker 1: and criminal conspiracy, and you were charged with second degree murder,

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Speaker 1: arm robbery, and criminal conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: When my attorney came to visit me, he only visited

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Speaker 2: me twice doing this, and again I was facing second

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Speaker 2: degree murder and I already been sitting, I believe for

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Speaker 2: seventeen maybe nineteen months at the county jail, and I

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Speaker 2: got a whole case. They said that I was there

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Speaker 2: and I racked the shot and said when myway finally

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Speaker 2: came to see me one of the two times, he said, hey,

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Speaker 2: look they got nothing on you. And I'm letting them know,

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Speaker 2: like yet this is made up. This lady is lying,

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Speaker 2: He says. The defense were going to show that, with

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Speaker 2: all her numerous inconsistencies, that this is impossible. Whichever version

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Speaker 2: of jury so choose to believe. So okay, fine, and.

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Speaker 1: They put you all on trial together in May of

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine. Basically you had a snowballs chance in

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Speaker 1: hell of proving your innocence.

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Speaker 2: That's where the monkey wrench came in, I believe, is

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Speaker 2: that they tried me, you know, I mean with Jamal Lawson.

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Speaker 2: They had it right with one of the guys. You

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Speaker 2: know what I mean that he was actually there. He

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Speaker 2: was a drug dealer. You know what I mean, he

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Speaker 2: was the trigger man.

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Speaker 1: The state's case, and this is important, rested entirely on

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Speaker 1: the testimony of his laws at trials. She identified you,

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Speaker 1: Glad and Lawson as the three arm and that entered

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Speaker 1: the home to settle the drug debt with Hulan Howard. Initially,

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Speaker 1: again she had said that the shotgun was carried by Stink,

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Speaker 1: was fired into the ceiling and then used to kill Howard.

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Speaker 1: Then at this point she changed her account of events,

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Speaker 1: You holding the shotgun, loading the shotgun shell but not firing,

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Speaker 1: and then she fingered lost and with a handgun as

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Speaker 1: to shoot her. I mean, she couldn't keep her gun straight,

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Speaker 1: her story straight, her people straight. And she also testified

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Speaker 1: that the three of you had sold cocaine from the

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Speaker 1: home for the fifty days leading up to the shooting.

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Speaker 1: Now again this is important, right, no weapons were ever

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Speaker 1: recovered and no forensic evidence linked you to this scene.

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Speaker 1: But nonetheless, on May twenty fourth and nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: all of you were saying to life in prison without parole,

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Speaker 1: what the hell was that? Like? I mean, here you

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Speaker 1: are You're still a kid?

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm still a kid. I'm still a kid reliving.

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Speaker 2: That is definitely troublesome, to say the least. I'm sitting there.

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Speaker 2: The verdict came down guilty, guilty of all charges, second

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Speaker 2: degree murder, and it's like like my soul, my soul

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Speaker 2: had lifted out of my body, like my soul had

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Speaker 2: hovered because I knew for being in the county for

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Speaker 2: seventeen months or I think it was nineteen excuse me.

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Speaker 2: One of the two that I seen guys, they was

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Speaker 2: just sending them away. This is why now due to

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Speaker 2: the rushing of the DA office with the Conviction Integrity Unit,

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Speaker 2: Miss Patricia Cummins, you know, she's right in a lot

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Speaker 2: of wrongs, I seen a lot of individuals go to

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Speaker 2: jail for life, literally for crimes that they didn't commit.

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Speaker 2: Right once they said guilty, I knew that I had

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Speaker 2: an uphill battle. I knew I had an uphill battle.

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Speaker 1: So nineteen months in jail and that's just jail before

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Speaker 1: the trial, and then of course twenty one and a

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Speaker 1: half years in prison. Can you explain to us, though

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Speaker 1: Terrence jail in prison, what was life like in the jail,

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Speaker 1: first of all as a teenager and then spending you know,

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Speaker 1: really half your life in prison.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you too for that, Jason, because it's

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Speaker 2: definitely a difference. When I was in jail during the

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Speaker 2: nineteen months, it was the most miserable time of my life.

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Speaker 2: My son was my son was just born. I had

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Speaker 2: to watch, you know, all them sunny days, true sunny days.

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Speaker 2: They would gloomy for me, especially after, like I said,

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Speaker 2: witness and everybody else be railroaded, anticipating like then, what

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Speaker 2: is my fate as a child like you said I was,

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Speaker 2: You know, I was a kid by then. I was

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Speaker 2: nineteen years old, you know, never had a brush in

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Speaker 2: with the law. I ain't. No, I ain't know nothing

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Speaker 2: from nothing. I ain't and I didn't. I ain't know

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Speaker 2: who to trust in there, you know. And I was

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Speaker 2: facing a life sentence, and I was taken away from

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Speaker 2: you know, my son, I was taking away from my family,

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Speaker 2: taking away from my mother. I was just empty. That

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Speaker 2: was jail. That's the best way I can describe jail.

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Speaker 2: When I went to prison. After I went in prison,

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Speaker 2: they already put a hole in my heart, taking me

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Speaker 2: away from my baby boy, you know, when I went

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Speaker 2: to prison. Yeah, it was jail put a hole in

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Speaker 2: my heart. Prison took it, took it. Prison took it,

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Speaker 2: and it could have destroyed me, but it didn't. You know,

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Speaker 2: I still have a level of grease with me. But

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Speaker 2: the trauma and the experience of prison, you can't google

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Speaker 2: that for me to be able to tell it to

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Speaker 2: where you can actually fill me and relate. It was

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Speaker 2: every negative emotion that you can possibly think of. I

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Speaker 2: experienced it in prison, you know, true, true resentment, true anger.

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Speaker 2: They were real emotions that I was introduced to in prison,

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Speaker 2: you know, because of the people, you know, staff of

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Speaker 2: you know, see out here, we have police in prison,

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Speaker 2: they called CEOs, but they are police. Same thing goes

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Speaker 2: on what goes on out here, and I had to

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Speaker 2: navigate through that at a young age. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: guess I'm not an average Joe because there isn't like

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Speaker 2: a layer of my soul. It desensitized me to a lot.

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Speaker 2: But due to my natural disposition, I am who I am,

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Speaker 2: you know before I got here and before I went

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Speaker 2: in there, you know. So that's what prison was. It

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Speaker 2: was a horrible experience. Damn prison.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up because I've been saying

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Speaker 1: anybody that will listen that while we are all experiencing

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Speaker 1: the same anger and grief and outrage at these killings

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Speaker 1: that we see on video, the George Floyd's and all

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Speaker 1: the others, we can't forget that there's all the other

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Speaker 1: ones that are taking place behind the walls, and that

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Speaker 1: we can't see those they're not on video. But we

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Speaker 1: know that approximately five thousand people die in our jails

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Speaker 1: in prisons in America every year, and not a lot

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Speaker 1: of those are from old age.

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Speaker 2: I remember working the Mr Shop maintenance repair shot. This

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Speaker 2: is when I was at sci Pittsburgh and the jail

347
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:20,199
Speaker 2: was closing down two thousand and four, and it was

348
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Speaker 2: a box of photos. It's a box of photos and

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Speaker 2: I'm cleaning this out, so I'm looking at I'm looking

350
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Speaker 2: at a box to see what it is. It could be anything,

351
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Speaker 2: you know. I want to see how heavy it is.

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Speaker 2: And it was a bunch of pictures. It was Polaroid pictures,

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Speaker 2: pictures from back in the day, the eighties, pictures from

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Speaker 2: the seventies. Was a box and all these photos were

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Speaker 2: pictures of dead bodies. I can't make this ship up. Well,

356
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Speaker 2: it was pictures of dead bodies either with some sheets

357
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Speaker 2: wrapped around their net as if they hung themselves. I

358
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Speaker 2: don't know. I wasn't there, right, so maybe they did,

359
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 2: maybe they didn't. I don't know, although I'm just telling

360
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Speaker 2: you what I've seen. I seen the sheets wrapped around

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Speaker 2: these guys. Next, of course, you know there were pictures,

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Speaker 2: you know. I mean, we're all types of wounds, you know,

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00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 2: some stab wombs and stuff like that. But a lot

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Speaker 2: of that from the history with the institutions, the penitentiaries,

365
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 2: you know, which some of the guys in there called

366
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Speaker 2: the modern day plantations, right, and they got an argument

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Speaker 2: to stand on with calling it that that there. Jason

368
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 2: just reminded me of it. Yeah, them holes in them

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Speaker 2: individuals wasn't due to old age. And the sheets wrapped

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Speaker 2: around their neck wasn't due to old age, you know.

371
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Speaker 2: And I remember when I was there, the guards, it

372
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Speaker 2: was like some back in the day Colosmo type stuff.

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Speaker 2: The guards, if they didn't like you, they ain't like

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Speaker 2: I'm glad I navigated successfully through that experience that I

375
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Speaker 2: went through. If the guards ain't like you, and you

376
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 2: was a smart ass, he was hard up. They pay

377
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 2: someone give them extra whatever, extra pisa to do what

378
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 2: I've seen on those pictures. I know for a fact

379
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Speaker 2: because when I was there, the guards were still you know,

380
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: from amongst their culture, their tradition, that they wanted some

381
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: entertainment and they ain't like a guy or they'd put

382
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: his case out there. This guy raped such and such,

383
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 2: this guy did this, and they're turn a blind eye

384
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 2: and the guys that get I'm talking about the work

385
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 2: that was. I seen a guy get his head split

386
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Speaker 2: wide open with a lock and sock. You'd be amazed

387
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 2: at what a lock and sock can do. So, yeah, Jason,

388
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Speaker 2: you're right. This is the stuff that goes on behind

389
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Speaker 2: them walls that falls on the deaf ears out here.

390
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Speaker 2: Up until now with the recent injustice that's being exposed.

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Speaker 1: It's a slow moving tragedy, disaster, human rights catastrophe that

392
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: you know, we treat people behind bars as if they're

393
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Speaker 1: not human. In fact that as soon as they get arrested,

394
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: you become something else other than just a regular person.

395
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Speaker 2: And mind you, this is nothing new. You know, if

396
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: you trace it back the origin of what's now mass incarceration,

397
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 2: it go all the way back to you know, the

398
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 2: Black Colds, and convict lease. And you know, slavery then

399
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 2: literally it morphed, you know it morphed or it was

400
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: given a different name, but arose by any other name

401
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: is still a rose. The thirteenth Amendment made an exception

402
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 2: to the rule. The rule is that slavery has been abolished,

403
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: with the exception if you was duly convicted of a crime.

404
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: And although you know, in my case, I wasn't duly convicted.

405
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: I was wrongfully convicted of crime. But to made it

406
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 2: to model. But the colds, the black colds, you know,

407
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: which are now on the mandatory sentences, the draconial policies,

408
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, that's still in place. That's literally

409
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: designed to keep and to entrap free labor. And I

410
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: worked for nineteen cents an hour for twenty one and

411
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Speaker 2: a half years, and I had to fly straight, of course,

412
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: you know, that's who I was as a person, regardless

413
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: of my circumstances. But yeah, nineteen son and hour, I

414
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: worked for that. And had I didn't, you know, I

415
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 2: would have been penalized for that. What do that sound like?

416
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Speaker 2: And if I ain't, like, you know, the first level

417
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: of punishment could have got bad. It would have got bad.

418
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. That's exactly nineteen cents away from free.

419
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: So nineteen cents an hour is for lack of a

420
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: better well, no, let's just call it slave labor. Let's

421
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: talk about it, this crazy appellent process. Try to follow

422
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: along with this and imagine you being in Terrence's shoes

423
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: for this insane journey I'm about to take you through.

424
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: So January two thousand and two, the first petition is

425
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: filed under the Pennsylvania Post Conviction Review Act for inadequate

426
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: council because Terrence's attorney failed to call the officer who

427
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: took Law's initial statement that contradicted her trial testimony. I mean,

428
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: you know a pre law student would know to do that. Okay.

429
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Speaker 1: It was dismissed in two thousand and three, and the

430
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: appeal was rejected in two thousand and four, and the

431
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: Supreme Court refused any further appeal in two thousand and five. Okay,

432
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: Now we go to September two thousand and five. Second

433
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: petition on the inadequate council because the attorney failed to

434
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: investigate alibi witnesses. The petition was also based on a

435
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: signed affidavit by Jamara Gladden admitting his presence at the

436
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: crime scene and denying Terrence's involvement. That should be enough.

437
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: Oh okay, sorry, Terrence wild a state. I'm talking about

438
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: Jews if you're not here. But Terrence filed a state

439
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: havevious corpus petition days after that second petition, but the

440
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: havieas was put on hold while the petition was being pursued.

441
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: March two thousand and six, now, Terrence's younger sister was

442
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: working at a bar called the Jack of Heart's Lounge.

443
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: This is amazing. She struck up a conversation with a

444
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: patron named Kizzie Baker, who happened to be on the

445
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: street that night and witnessed the three men leaving Howard's

446
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: house after hearing a gunshot. Incredible. Baker knew Terrence and

447
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: said that he was not one of the three men.

448
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: And Terrence had a lawyer now who filed an the

449
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: mended state petition for a new trial. It was dismissed,

450
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: though as untimely filed. A technical whatever you want to

451
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: call it, right, a procedural problem right there has nothing

452
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: to do with guilty of it's posidual. But the nile

453
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: was upheld anyway on appeal because why let justice get

454
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: in the way of a procedural error anyway. Then an

455
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: attorney named David was appointed to represent Terrence in his

456
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: federal Habeas Corpus petition, with a signed after David from

457
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: Jamel Lawson saying that the first time he ever met

458
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: they ever met was at the trial. So I mean,

459
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: now things are getting like it's just mounting. So on

460
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: April twenty ninth, two thousand and nine, at the federal

461
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: Habeas hearing, both Kissie Baker and Terrence's sister Tanisha Thornton testified.

462
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: Jamar Gladden also testified that he told his defense lawyer

463
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: about Terrence, but was advised to keep that information to

464
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: himself because it was an admission of kuilt. March twenty ten,

465
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: Magistrate Wells denied the petition on get ready procedural grounds,

466
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: and I'm quoting now, based upon credible testimony, the court

467
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: believes that Lewis may not have been present at or

468
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: participated in the tragic events of August sixth, nineteen ninety six.

469
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: He may be actually innocent end quote, And Magistrate Wells

470
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: went on to say that it was quote unquote frustrating

471
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: to have to recommend to the US district judge assigned

472
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: to the case that Lewis's petition be denied frustrating.

473
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 2: That's how she felt, right, oh wow, Right.

474
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, you're still sitting there in prison and just

475
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, trying to stay alive. And then in June

476
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: twenty ten, US District Judge Burl Schiller accepted the magistrate's

477
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: recommendation and denied the habeas petition. But now comes the

478
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: turning point. This is where that starts to be a

479
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: little light at the end of the tunnel, but it

480
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: was really a long tunnel. And what I'm talking about

481
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: is in June twenty twelve, the US Supreme Court decided

482
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: Miller versus Alabama, holding that the mandatory imposition of life

483
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: without parole for juvenile convicted of murder was unconstitutional. The

484
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: legendary Brian Stevenson argued that case Terrence was seventeen at

485
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: the time of the murder, so it fit into this,

486
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, into this group.

487
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: However, at first, when Miller came out, mind you, it

488
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: wasn't retroactive in my state, so that wasn't nothing that

489
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: you know, I could depend on. Miller versus Alibama was

490
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: not applied retroactively until twenty sixteen when Montgomery versus. Louisiana

491
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: came out. You know, I was real appreciative that I

492
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: fell amongst that class that now I don't have to

493
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: entertain the thought that perhaps I gotta die in jail.

494
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania in order to get the benefits of the Miller

495
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: Versus Alabama ruined. I had to withdrew my innocent claims

496
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: as well as you gotta have to make up a

497
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: story now and concede into our narrative in order for

498
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: you to get paroleed. I didn't have it in me mentally.

499
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: I couldn't wrap my head around that. So I'm like, damn,

500
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: I might gotta do an extra ten years until you

501
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: really see that. No, I'm standing on my principal. I'm

502
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: standing on the truth. So twenty sixteen came. I seen

503
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: a lot of guys who I helped raise go home

504
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: for crimes that they actually committed. They committed their crimes.

505
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: So I had to tussle with the fact that I

506
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: had to concede to a lie. That's what the system

507
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: was accing from me, as opposed to honoring what the

508
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: evidence had already been pointing to since day one. Right.

509
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: So twenty sixteen, I was convinced to withdraw my innocent claims.

510
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: I was going to court to get resentenced, and that

511
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: strategically we can refile when I'm home on the streets

512
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: and the deal will be twenty to life. This is

513
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,239
Speaker 2: the sentence as an innocent man. This is what I

514
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: had to rejoice upon. So I signed on to have

515
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: the twenty the life. However, when we went to the

516
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: re sentence and hearing, and again I gotta highlight this fact, Jason,

517
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: it wasn't the system that got it right. It was

518
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: a lone judge, Judge Barbara McDermott, being honorable, having some nobility.

519
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: She's seen the order of Judge Wells, my magistrate judge,

520
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: and the adoption of the District Court saying that I

521
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: was innocent, and she refused despite whatever draconial policy was

522
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: in place. She was uncomfortable with moving forward with my resentencing.

523
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: She said, I'm not resentencing you. What sentence is appropriate

524
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: to give to an innocent man. So my resentencing hearing

525
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 2: had turned into an exoneration hearing. It was a blessing, literally,

526
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: like I feel as though the heavens literally was cracked open,

527
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: and I was shockered, you know what I mean with

528
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: unlimited blessings that day because just so happened. Barbara McDermott

529
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: had got in touch with the supervisor of the Conviction

530
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: Integrity Unit down at the Philadelphia District Attorney Office, Patricia Cummings,

531
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: and they had already completed their investmenttigation, but due to

532
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: the procedural hurdles of the law, they felt as though

533
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: they couldn't do anything until after my resentence, because remember

534
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: the goal now on the mission was just to get

535
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: Terrence home and then we had figured everything else out later.

536
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: What was it that the CiU found in their investigation?

537
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: They had at the request of my attorney, David leje

538
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: and Kevin Harten, they came across documents which was called

539
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: sixt year Street Notes, and there was an interview of

540
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: Lionel Laws wherein she had told the Philadelphia Police Department

541
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: that the guy who she believed to be the perpetrator,

542
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: and this was literally days after the crime occurred, that

543
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: his name was Hakeem Sadai Mohammet. And not only did

544
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: she stop there, she was very descriptive and he had

545
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: an ankle bracelet on and he drove a blue car.

546
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: Now one, my name is not Kim today, Muhammad. I

547
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: never ever in life prior to this, had a brushing

548
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: with the law. So I never was on house arrest or,

549
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: I never wore an ankle bracelet, and nor did I

550
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: ever own a blue car. So once the CiU seeing

551
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: this document among others, they being honorable being who they are,

552
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: exhubing nothing but integrity, they turned this over to my

553
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: defense team, which we know for a fact everyone who

554
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: has a legal eye or air or understanding this was

555
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 2: a clear brad eviolation. This right here could have been

556
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: the piece of evidence, not that I needed it, you know,

557
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: to prove that the witness you know, was lying and

558
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: that she was conhearsed to make up a story for

559
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: whatever reasons to this day we don't know, you know.

560
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, stink is today, Mohammed.

561
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: What was that moment like when the judge said you're innocent.

562
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: When Judge Barbara McDermott turned and she looked me in

563
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: my eyes and said I was innocent. You are a

564
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: free man, so you are free to go. I'm still

565
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: feeling the echo of her words, those particular words, that

566
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: phrase she used, you are free to go. You are free.

567
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: Man.

568
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: I'm still feeling, you know, the vibration in my heart

569
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: and in my soul and my blood stream to be

570
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: able to step out of them doors. It was surreal, Jason.

571
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 2: You know that was just a little over a year ago,

572
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: you know, so I'm still appreciating and witnessing and then

573
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: feeling the effects of walking out after being confined. A

574
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: mountain had lifted off of my shoulders, you know, despite

575
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 2: the fact the world that I had came home to

576
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: after a couple of months later, you know, it was

577
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: falling apart COVID as well as what has taken place

578
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 2: with the George Floyd, the feelings from a year from

579
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: from coming from captivity for twenty one and a half years.

580
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: That's a long time, my friend. That's a long time

581
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: because each year it's like compounded when you're behind that wall.

582
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: So you know, a year out here, and I'm just

583
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: telling from experience, this year went past so fast. I've

584
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: been home a year.

585
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: Year.

586
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 2: This year won passed so fast. But in there a

587
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: year is like freaking ten years.

588
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: First of all, yeah, it's been It's hard to believe

589
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: it's only been a year since I read that article

590
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: on the newspaper and it's been, you know, a real

591
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: blessing for me to get to know you. And we

592
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: had some microwives, some good meals together and stuff as

593
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: we have, and they're gonna have a lot more. And

594
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: now I'm really really happy to announce that as we're

595
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: recording this now, just a couple of days ago, a

596
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: few days ago, Terrence filed a civil suit against the

597
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: detectives and the City of Philadelphia last year, and just

598
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: a few days ago, as we're talking now, they settled

599
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: the suit for six point two five million dollars. And

600
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: amen to that, I mean, you deserve more.

601
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 2: I'm still allowing it to register that I am now

602
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 2: well off. I'm privileged. I'm privileged, and I'm gonna be

603
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: able to live a comfortable, secure life. I don't know

604
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 2: what that looked like, so I got an idea. So yeah,

605
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm still processing this because you know, I'm still high,

606
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 2: for lack of a better term, with this euphoria off

607
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: my exoneration just being home period. So now not only

608
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 2: am I a free man, I'm a wealthy free man.

609
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: I'm a free man. So the new found gift that

610
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: I have received, as far as this restitution this compensation,

611
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: this gift. And I say that because after going through

612
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: my journey, I literally can say everything that has come

613
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 2: my way Jason is in fact a blessing slash a

614
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: gift from the heavens above man, because you know, my

615
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: cries felled on death, ears from amongst you know, mankind,

616
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: so all I everything was taken from me. Everything. The

617
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: only thing that I did have was you know, my

618
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: belief and my faith that it got to get better

619
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: than this, God Almighty. That's the only thing that I

620
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 2: had to cope with to continue on, you know, and navigating,

621
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: you know, through the trials and the tribulations and all

622
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 2: the adversities that I underwent. Like I said, my tests

623
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: and trials started very early in life. So that's why

624
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: I attributed as a blessing a gift that the city

625
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 2: is our agent of where the actual gift came from,

626
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: God Almighty.

627
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: Regular listeners of our show have come to, I think

628
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: expect at the part of the show that I always

629
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: talk about how much I enjoy, which is our closing arguments,

630
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: And this is where I turned my microphone off. First,

631
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: I'll thank you Terrence Lewis for taking your time out

632
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: to be here with us you and I'm going to

633
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: make a special request, and I've never done this before,

634
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: but as you take us through the closing arguments, which

635
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: is just the final thoughts on any topic you want,

636
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to specifically ask if you wouldn't mind if

637
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: you could talk about the work that you're doing now,

638
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: which I think is so meaningful and it's going to

639
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: help so many other wrongfully convicted people. And we're going

640
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: to put a link so you can follow Terrence's work

641
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: and get involved in helping others through his incredible new organization,

642
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: which I am a proud supporter of. By the way,

643
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: there'll be a link in the episode description. Go to

644
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: the link, click on it, Join.

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Speaker 2: Us absolutely, and I thank you again, my friend, thank you.

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00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 2: Since I've been home, and let me put it in

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00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: this context real quick, I've been locked up for seven

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00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: eight hundred and twenty three days, and since I've been home,

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00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: which has been over a little over three hundred and

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00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: sixty five days, I was successful in establishing the Liberation Foundation.

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00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: And the Liberation Foundation is a nonprofit organization which is

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00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: aimed at helping navigate through the legal system, provide advocacy

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00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: work as well as support work for those who have

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00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: been wrongfully convicted and those who are subjugated and under

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00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 2: a disproportionate sentence. My belief is because of what I experienced,

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00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: because of what I've had seen with my own truthful eyes.

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00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 2: I believe in the model. The mantra is that when

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00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 2: you know better, you do better. So, based upon sincerity

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00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: I have, as well as those who share my belief,

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00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: we have a moral obligation to right wrongs and be

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00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: courageous and be sincere and say what we mean and

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00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: mean what we say and be sincere about it. So

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Speaker 2: I ask that I get the support and help from

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00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 2: anyone who wants to be involved in supporting the Liberation Foundation,

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00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: and we can be founded at Tlawsfoundation dot com. Is

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00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: advocacy work for those who have been wrongfully convicted. The

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00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: primary goal is to secure freedom and justice for those innocent.

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00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: They deserve liberation as well.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you

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00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud

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00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: donor to the Innocence Project, and I really hope you'll

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00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping

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00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot

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00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 1: org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd

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00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.

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00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR

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00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on

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00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava

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Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one