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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Senate Democrats have asked Clarence Thomas's

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Speaker 1: close personal friend and benefactor, Harlan Crow to list his

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Speaker 1: gifts to the Supreme Court Justices. We have a star

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Speaker 1: studded show today The Daily Shows. Roywood Junior joins us

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Speaker 1: to talk about how you roast the most powerful people

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Speaker 1: in the world. The Washington Post Karen Tumulty tells us

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Speaker 1: what's next in the debt ceiling showdown. The first we

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Speaker 1: have the Bulwarks Tim Miller, who will be appearing with

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Speaker 1: me in New York at the Peter J. Sharp Theater

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Speaker 1: at Symphony Space on May eighteenth, which is next Thursday,

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Speaker 1: along with Charlie Sykes, Jonathan Last, and Sarah Longwell. Welcome

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Speaker 1: Tim Miller back to Fast Politics. You are my favorite.

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Speaker 2: Going for the most guest louts. I'm competing. I want

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Speaker 2: to be number one. We're going to look back at

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Speaker 2: the end of the year. We're going to have a ranking.

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Speaker 2: I want to be number one in quality and quantity.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have to murder Rick Wilson. Okay, money's

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Speaker 1: on Rick, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've matched to the death. Yeah, I would

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Speaker 2: also I'd also choose Rick in that you know, there

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Speaker 2: are other areas where maybe I would outshine him a

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Speaker 2: height competition, for example, reaching apples out of a tree,

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Speaker 2: but maybe not enough fight. I love you, Rick, Molly.

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Speaker 2: We're going to see each other next week. We have

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Speaker 2: a live Fast Politics Bulwark show in New York. And

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Speaker 2: I have a big question for you. I know you're

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Speaker 2: supposed to be asking the questions, but where is the

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Speaker 2: after after party? The champagne room. That's what I want

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Speaker 2: to know.

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Speaker 1: Where that's right, the after party?

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Speaker 2: Okay. We are going to invite people in the crowd,

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Speaker 2: the cool people that come to the event. You can

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Speaker 2: get tickets at boorg dot com slash events, and the

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Speaker 2: cool people we will invite and after after party somewhere

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Speaker 2: not your home. There will be a champagne room. We

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Speaker 2: need to I'm trusting you to pick up though this

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Speaker 2: is your neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: And karaoke maybe karaoke.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see a.

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Speaker 1: Champagne room in karaoke. Tim Miller, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about the death of democracy. It's puttering along

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Speaker 1: Republicans looking for a candidate, seems like they're going to

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Speaker 1: pick someone thoughtful and spiritual. No, I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, based in deep ideological roots. You know,

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Speaker 2: someone who cares about policy, you know, who wants to

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Speaker 2: govern for all Americans. Asa Hutchinson. Liz Cheney isn't out

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Speaker 2: in New Hampshire today and I saw her at four percent.

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Speaker 2: So that's pretty good Asa plus Liz, and now we're up.

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Speaker 2: We're up to five. Now we're getting there. We can

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Speaker 2: round up to ten. No, it's not good the democracy

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Speaker 2: can I just I like to be you know, at

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Speaker 2: least the most in a in a room full of

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Speaker 2: das our anti Trump you know kind of folks either

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Speaker 2: never Trumpers or liberals, there's always a lot of doom casting.

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Speaker 2: I would would like to shed a little bit of

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Speaker 2: light here. I mean, we had a really nice mid

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Speaker 2: terms for saving democracy, right, Maybe not a great mid

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Speaker 2: term for protecting the full faith in credit of the

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Speaker 2: United States, as we might be heading.

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Speaker 1: Off the dead class.

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Speaker 2: But see, we did have a good mid term as

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Speaker 2: far as you know, the craziest lunatics loss. I think

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Speaker 2: that there is a grow increasingly growing group of you know,

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Speaker 2: the coalition of the of the normal, of the decent

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Speaker 2: of Democrats who who There's certain people who go over

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Speaker 2: a line, and we've seen that so far. Now there's

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Speaker 2: some concerning things. I mean, nobody wants to fucking play

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Speaker 2: fire with another coin foot with Donald Trump. And even

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Speaker 2: if you think it's a seventy thirty, you know likelihood

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Speaker 2: that Biden would beat him, which I do, thirty percent

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Speaker 2: is still way way, way too high for like the

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Speaker 2: end of the democratic experiment, you know, and all the

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Speaker 2: other elections we've had before twenty sixteen. You know, neither

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Speaker 2: candidate was proposing the end of the democratic experiment. And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of how I so is a little too high.

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Speaker 2: But you had some good news in the terms the

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Speaker 2: primary stuff so far, and it's early, but it is

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Speaker 2: you have to say, it's pretty disheartening. I mean to

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Speaker 2: see a morning console pullout this morning with Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: having a forty one point lead. I mean, I've left

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Speaker 2: the Republican Party, but when something really bad happens to

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Speaker 2: your family, even if you've had a falling out for him,

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Speaker 2: it still makes you sad. And boy, I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: pretty depressing to see that, Like, even after everything we've

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Speaker 2: been through that, that's where things still stand.

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Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. I think it's pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: I want to get high on the Bulwark supply that

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Speaker 1: there are decent people who are going to keep our

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Speaker 1: country from sliding into fascism or whatever this is. And

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Speaker 1: I hope it's true. I mean, I do think that

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Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting to watch Trump. I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: could get people together, you would be able to take

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Speaker 1: back this Republican Party. I mean, the problem is I

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Speaker 1: feel like he's got such a hold on the base

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Speaker 1: that it's just untracked.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And here's the biggest part of the intractability, and

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Speaker 2: it's it's actually been even more. I was pretty pessimistic

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Speaker 2: about somebody beating Trump in a primary, but I thought

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Speaker 2: it was possible. For this reason is that, like you know,

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Speaker 2: the Bullwark crowd, and like we said, we're about five percent, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and many of them and further the reason why, yeah,

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Speaker 2: thank you. One of the reason why we're five percent

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Speaker 2: and not twelve percent is like half of us left right,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm gone now right, I mean, it's really more

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Speaker 2: like the Dispatch crowd. That's the five percent sticking around

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Speaker 2: holding us. Hope that the you know, great classical liberal

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Speaker 2: white Knight will come back in the future and shape

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Speaker 2: and save everybody. You know, Margaret Thatcher will arise from

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Speaker 2: the dead. But I don't really, you know, see that happening.

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Speaker 2: And the problem is that there's a group of persuadable

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Speaker 2: folks in the Republican Party that like Trump but do

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Speaker 2: see his flaws, do see that they've lost? Right, there's

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Speaker 2: a cult. There's a cult forty five group that's about

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Speaker 2: a third of the party, give or take. And then

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Speaker 2: there's this big middle of the party that like him

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Speaker 2: but see his flaws. Now I don't to me, that's insane,

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Speaker 2: but these people exists, so we have to assess them

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Speaker 2: as they're there. And I thought that Desantas would have

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Speaker 2: a good chance with that group. The problem is that

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Speaker 2: you get in this double bind if you're Ron de

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Speaker 2: Santis to try to appeal to people that like Trump

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Speaker 2: but might want to move on, which is, if you

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Speaker 2: attack Trump, then all of a sudden they're like, ooh,

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Speaker 2: he actually might be a list changey sympathizer after all,

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Speaker 2: and they start to not like him. If you don't

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Speaker 2: attack Trump, then it's like, ooh, this guy's kind of

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Speaker 2: a pussy, like he's not up for the fight, right,

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Speaker 2: Like he can't do it, and so you have to

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Speaker 2: like walk this really fine line of criticizing him but

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Speaker 2: not too hard but seeming strong but not too strong.

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Speaker 2: And it's really challenging line to walk for even a

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Speaker 2: talented politician. It's not that clear that Ron DeSantis is

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Speaker 2: that talented.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is talented now, I know. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: just want to say one thing about putting fingers, which.

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Speaker 2: Is I first started as putting fingers, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: where are we putting our fingers?

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Speaker 3: Molly, okay, putting fingers? Yeah, I live in the South now,

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Speaker 3: put in finger put fingers. One of the things that

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Speaker 3: I was so struck by is like there was a

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Speaker 3: real National Review crowd that was so excited about him,

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Speaker 3: and they were just I mean, because I know because

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Speaker 3: I wrote a piece that said about three months ago,

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Speaker 3: I wrote a piece that said Rondasantis is as bad

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Speaker 3: as Trump. And I've always thought he's actually quite scary

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Speaker 3: because he's pretty good at what he does and pretty smart.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's not good at being a retail politician,

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Speaker 3: thank god, but he's very smart and he can get

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Speaker 3: you know, if you're not, like you know, one of

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Speaker 3: the great things about Trump was that he was a

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Speaker 3: complete and abject more on so he would have and

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Speaker 3: he also could not stop getting in his own way,

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Speaker 3: thank god, right, So you know, he's you know, if

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Speaker 3: he had been smart, he could have gotten a lot

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Speaker 3: more scary stuff done.

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Speaker 1: But you know, this National Review crowd, they were convinced

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Speaker 1: that this was their savior, and they were so they

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Speaker 1: based this on almost no evidence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they based on the fact that it

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Speaker 2: is true about Ron DeSantis that floor went from being

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Speaker 2: a pretty swingy state, like a very deep red state

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Speaker 2: while he was there, governing in a pretty far right way.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So if you are extremely you know, to use mont

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Speaker 2: Romney's very severely conservative, and you want severely conservative policies

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Speaker 2: and you want to win on paper, you looked at

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Speaker 2: him and was were like, oh, Okay, this guy really

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Speaker 2: might be our savior. This guy might be our night

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Speaker 2: and shining armor. Now the problem with that was there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of things happening.

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Speaker 1: People moved to Florida.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of things at play at the

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Speaker 2: same time, right, Like COVID is happening, people are moving,

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Speaker 2: like older people are more moving, more Republican. His opponents

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Speaker 2: are like Tomato Can Charlie Christ and like Andrew Gillum

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Speaker 2: who is like meth and doing meth and by and like,

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Speaker 2: he didn't have the strongest opponents right in those two states.

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Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with buye people. Sorry, that was not a

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Speaker 2: you know, no assaulted me. If you're bisexual, that's great,

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Speaker 2: but you know, doing meth and being by isn't isn't

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Speaker 2: probably the best resume for governor of Florida. And so

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Speaker 2: these were his opponents, and so like, there were a

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Speaker 2: lot of things that were just kind of working in

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Speaker 2: his favor that I think that people were assuming, or

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Speaker 2: people were wish casting that there was some Ron Desanta's

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Speaker 2: black magic, when in reality, you know, he just was

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Speaker 2: the beneficiary of a wave, you know that was already

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Speaker 2: moving his direction and he kind of just started to

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Speaker 2: ride it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was also a fair amount of wish casting, right yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, it'd be like me as a moderate, like

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Speaker 2: being like, oh, I'm from Colorado, Like, oh, Colorado used

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Speaker 2: to be a swing state and now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: it's a deep blue state, and that must have been

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Speaker 2: John Hickenlooper's magic, you know, and like the nation is

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Speaker 2: clamoring for centrist you know, capitalist liberalism like John Hickenlooper,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, well, no, actually, just a bunch of

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Speaker 2: liberals moved into Colorado and he happened to be governor,

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Speaker 2: you know, like he's a fine guy, but so pot Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's different than you know, saying, okay, he's ready to

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Speaker 2: be the president. And I think that DeSantis, you know

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Speaker 2: that this wish casting was like, you know, DeSantis happened

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Speaker 2: to be in the right place at the right time,

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Speaker 2: and people assumed that meant that he was doing something special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. It's pretty interesting to see

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Speaker 1: how stuck this Republican Party is with Trump, and now

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Speaker 1: we're going to see I mean, I don't think at

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Speaker 1: this point we haven't had the primary, as we haven't

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Speaker 1: even had the debates. But it's hard for me to

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Speaker 1: imagine a world where what is happening right now doesn't continue.

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Speaker 1: I mean unless the world clamors for a Chris Christy

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Speaker 1: yet another go at it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah no, and I'm repetitive on this. I've probably said

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Speaker 2: this in this podcast, but it's worth repeating the craziest

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Speaker 2: part of it. And there's so much crazy stuff about

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Speaker 2: all this, but the craziest part about all this is, like,

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Speaker 2: besides four Republicans in Washington who are like in the cult,

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Speaker 2: everybody just wishes it was Rond de sand It's not

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Speaker 2: just the National Review crowd, it's every Republican in Washington

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Speaker 2: wishes that was Rond Desanda's or somebody else. And there

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Speaker 2: were ten votes away from doing it, had they just

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Speaker 2: gotten had there had just ten people volunteered to convict

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Speaker 2: him in that impeachment trial. They got seven arty, which

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Speaker 2: was a lot. There'd never been any members of your

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Speaker 2: of the own party in the Senate to convict, you know,

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Speaker 2: a president of their own party in his There were seven.

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Speaker 2: They needed ten more, and then Trump would have been

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Speaker 2: barred from running all of this, you know, we'd be

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Speaker 2: focused on all this other stuff. And yet they didn't

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Speaker 2: do it. They didn't once again, they all just cowered

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Speaker 2: when they had the opportunity to show a little bit

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Speaker 2: of backbone. And now they're stuck with them. And you know,

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Speaker 2: it really is when you kind of step back and

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Speaker 2: think about that. I saw a tweet the other day

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Speaker 2: that made me laugh Ma Cob laughing dark laughing about

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Speaker 2: how like, imagine if a black man had spurred a

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Speaker 2: riot at the Capitol building, was on truck, was on

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Speaker 2: trial for rape, you know, and had been indicted for

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Speaker 2: other issues and was investigated for multiple things, and people

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Speaker 2: would be like, yes, we're ready for that person to

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Speaker 2: be the president. Like never, it's it is just it's

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Speaker 2: mind blowing that he can have a forty one percent

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Speaker 2: lead and a party in the spite, in spite of all.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is different than twenty sixteen. It's not like, oh,

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Speaker 2: let's say a chance on the game show host guy.

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Speaker 2: It's like we've seen it, they've seen it.

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Speaker 1: I still believe that DeSantis has not rejected the fascism

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Speaker 1: and the party of anything. He embraces it. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that you're better off the democracy is

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Speaker 1: better off with Iron DeSantis candidacy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we disagreed on this last time. My

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Speaker 2: final quick point on that is just simply, I want

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Speaker 2: you to imagine. I just want you to really quick,

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Speaker 2: I just want you to close your eyes. This is

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Speaker 2: my only rebuttal. I want all our listeners to close

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Speaker 2: our eyes, and I want you to imagine who is

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Speaker 2: in the Oval Office with Donald Trump, and like what

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Speaker 2: that team is going to be. I mean, it is

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Speaker 2: the guy, Yes, it is the scum of the earth,

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Speaker 2: the F minus list and DeSantis. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: there'd be a lot of problems with the Santas administration,

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Speaker 2: but I mean I think that it would at least

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Speaker 2: be a different caliber of people running the government.

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Speaker 1: Again, you criticize the my pillow guy, won't someone stand

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Speaker 1: up for stupid people with ridiculous facial hair.

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Speaker 2: Someone has to If it's not us, who.

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Speaker 1: So the debt ceiling? Let's talk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: As someone who's very cynical, it just feels to me

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Speaker 1: like Republicans in Congress are trying to crash the United

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Speaker 1: States economy to help their guy win in twenty four.

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Speaker 1: But that's certainly not what's going on, right boy.

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Speaker 2: There's always this question of motive, right, which is are

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Speaker 2: they actually trying to tank the economy because they think

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Speaker 2: it helps them, or do they want to tank the

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Speaker 2: economy because they're anarchists, or do they want to take

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Speaker 2: the economy because they're incompetent? And it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe a little bit of all right, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that our friend Ben Whittis, I think put

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Speaker 2: this very well. He had a subject post. Let's just

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Speaker 2: check out if you have a checked out his subject.

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Speaker 2: But it was like the problem that Biden has in

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Speaker 2: this is that we're in this game of chicken over

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Speaker 2: the entire economy. And on Biden's side, it's like, obviously

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Speaker 2: the best case in Republicans folding, right, and that's how

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Speaker 2: you get out of the game of chicken. But the

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Speaker 2: problem is the other guy in the game of chicken

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Speaker 2: might actually benefit from crashing into you. Right, So's imagine

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Speaker 2: you're in a car, you're going eighty miles an hour,

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Speaker 2: the other person's going eighty miles an hour the other way,

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Speaker 2: and their calculation is I have a better chance of

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Speaker 2: surviving if I just do a head on crash with you,

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Speaker 2: then if I give up, Because if I give up,

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Speaker 2: then when I get back to you know, my team

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Speaker 2: to in the pit crew to stretch his analogy as

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Speaker 2: far as possible, like they're gonna kill me, Like they're

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Speaker 2: going to scalp me, right, Like I have no choice

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Speaker 2: but to crash this or else my party will scalp

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Speaker 2: me and there'll be someone else speak in the speakership, right,

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Speaker 2: McCarthy knows that he can't you know, fold or else

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Speaker 2: the crazies and the MAGA Caucus will throw him overboard

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Speaker 2: and replace him with Jim Jordan or whoever and so

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Speaker 2: the best. So it's really hard to negotiate with terrorists, right,

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Speaker 2: And that's the situation that you're in. And so I

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Speaker 2: think that's why we're kind of inevitab heading for some

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Speaker 2: really bad outcome or you know, a very long legal battle,

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Speaker 2: which I think is probably where it ends up with.

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Speaker 2: The Biden administration decides that they can just do this,

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Speaker 2: you know, laterally, and then it's up to you know,

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Speaker 2: the Trump Supreme Court to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court to decide if they're going to crash

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Speaker 1: the economy you're not. I mean, that's it seems like

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Speaker 1: in my mind, let's just play this was the situation

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Speaker 1: where reversed and we had a Republican president and a

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Speaker 1: Democratic Congress that was willing to drive the economy of ecliff.

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Speaker 1: You would never see that, But just say theoretical you

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Speaker 1: were the Republican would just go ahead and circumvent them.

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Speaker 2: You would think, so, yeah, I mean, you would think so,

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Speaker 2: you know, or who knows, Like we're pretty far down

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Speaker 2: a weird metaphor here, Who the hell knows Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: might want to want to put on the suicide vest

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Speaker 2: with them. I definitely don't want to model, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't think that Democrats should model authoritarian Republican you know,

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Speaker 2: governance when they're making it. So I think that sometimes

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Speaker 2: you gotta do what you gotta do, and they're in

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Speaker 2: certain times where I've I felt like Biden and Obama

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Speaker 2: overstepped on executive order stuff. This might not be one

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Speaker 2: of those occasions. I just you know, I don't I

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Speaker 2: I was kind of always intrigued by the crazy online mint,

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Speaker 2: the coin strategy. I'm open to creative solutions, creative trades

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Speaker 2: here to get around this. But I think the reality

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Speaker 2: is the Republicans aren't going to budge, and you know,

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Speaker 2: they don't seem to even be trying. On the Next

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Speaker 2: Level podcast of The boll Work, I interviewed Abigail Spamberger

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Speaker 2: about this, and the most interesting thing in that interview, well,

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Speaker 2: we did a lot of fun stuff, but about this

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Speaker 2: topic was McCarthy hasn't even called her. I mean, she's

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Speaker 2: like the great moderate Hope in the Democratic Congress, and

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Speaker 2: she's like one of the most bipartisan people in the

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Speaker 2: whole Congress. McCarthy hasn't even called her, so like that's

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Speaker 2: like he's not trying to cut a deal here, like

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Speaker 2: he's trying to crash when that's the reality. I don't

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Speaker 2: know that the administration will have any other choice but

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Speaker 2: to try to, you know, figure out how to go solo.

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Speaker 1: The math is there, right.

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Speaker 2: The math is there for what for raising the dead

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Speaker 2: selling no.

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Speaker 1: For a finding? I mean you only need Democrats, Keem

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey only needs five votes, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the problem is then McCarthy bring this to the floor,

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Speaker 2: and he never will. Macarthy will never do anything that

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Speaker 2: gets all these Democratic votes. This is what got Bayner

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Speaker 2: in trouble, right, Like we had the votes to solve

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Speaker 2: the Dream Act problem, you know, fifteen years ago, but

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Speaker 2: Bayner wouldn't bring it to the floor because there was

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Speaker 2: a majority of his conference that wouldn't vote for it.

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Speaker 2: So there are the votes there, Sure, you only need

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Speaker 2: all the Democrats plus five, but there's no practical way

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Speaker 2: you know, to getting there. I do think also just

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Speaker 2: on the optimistic side of this, like the Democrats really

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Speaker 2: can use this, I think as a political winner. You

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Speaker 2: got to remember, like the shutting down of the government

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Speaker 2: and stuff in the Obama era did not accrue to

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Speaker 2: the Republican's benefit. Right, There's a lot of popular stuff

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Speaker 2: in the kind of stupidly named in Fleisch and Reduction Act.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of popular particulars in there that, like

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Speaker 2: the Republicans are trying to gut now, that I think

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Speaker 2: really can be used against them, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, for sure? For sure, Yeah, I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask you, I mean, what is the

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Speaker 1: thing that's keeping you up right now?

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Speaker 2: The main thing that keeps me up at night is

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Speaker 2: just a too late to fix anything about it. Biden

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Speaker 2: health issue. And you know, God love him. I'm as

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Speaker 2: pro Biden as about anybody in the never Trump or Caucus.

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Speaker 2: Maybe not JVL, who's like, you know, kind of bordering

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Speaker 2: into Biden cult territory.

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Speaker 1: But well, JVL and Biden are basically very similar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Catholic, you know, institutionalists. So there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of things I like about Biden. There's some things that

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Speaker 2: I don't love, but I think that he's done a

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Speaker 2: great job. I think he's exceeded my expectations. So it

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Speaker 2: isn't anything about his performance. It's just, you know, God,

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Speaker 2: if we're heading down, I just I feel like we're

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Speaker 2: in this in the horror movie. We're like, you can

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Speaker 2: see what's going to happen, you know, you can see

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Speaker 2: where ghost Face is gonna is gonna sneak in the window.

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Speaker 2: And it's like Trump ends up winning a primary, he's losing,

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Speaker 2: he's not popular, and we get into fall of next

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Speaker 2: year and something happens, whatever it is. Anyone at any

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Speaker 2: age can have a health event, but obviously the risks

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Speaker 2: are much higher at Biden's age, and you know, we

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Speaker 2: go into a chaos situation, and like that is that's

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Speaker 2: the main thing that keeps me up at night. I

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Speaker 2: just I would feel, actually, especially after the midterms, pretty

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Speaker 2: damn confident about all this if Biden was sixty two.

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Speaker 2: But he's not. That's just a risk we have to

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Speaker 2: live with. And again, in a different world where Asa

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Speaker 2: Hutchinson was the other candidate, it's kind of like, okay,

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Speaker 2: well whatever, like this isn't this you know, like the

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Speaker 2: light that the fate of democracy is not on the

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Speaker 2: line here, but it is.

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Speaker 1: Right, Asa Hutchinson isn't going to be overturning democracy. But

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Speaker 1: good point.

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Speaker 2: So that's what keeps me up at night.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that keeps me up at night too. All right, good,

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Speaker 1: we can be anxious together. Thank you. Great.

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Speaker 2: I love anxiety. Thank you. We'll see you next Thursday,

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Speaker 2: New York City. Baby.

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Speaker 1: Roy Wood Junior is a stand up comedian and a

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Speaker 1: daily show correspondent Welcome Too Fast Politics, Roy.

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Speaker 4: Would Junior, Hello, how are you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm excited to have you. You are one

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Speaker 1: of the few people who has survived White House Correspondence Dinner.

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Speaker 4: I think we all survive. It's just a matter of

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Speaker 4: the degree of criticism.

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Speaker 1: No, but you what came out of that really having

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Speaker 1: done an incredible job, And I would say that, you know,

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Speaker 1: more than more than a few people have seen their

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Speaker 1: career go up in flames because of that.

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Speaker 4: I think there's definitely been comedians that have come out

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Speaker 4: of it with varying degrees of criticism, you know, publicly

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Speaker 4: for what joke you should or shouldn't do, you know,

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Speaker 4: And even I got a little bit of that because

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Speaker 4: of the school shooting joke. So I don't think any

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Speaker 4: comedians immune to it to any degree. But I'm very

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Speaker 4: thankful that most everything we wrote was received with the

431
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 4: intention that we had hoped to be. Yeah, you know,

432
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 4: in terms of just the intention of the joke. Okay, well,

433
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 4: did you say Kamala does nothing or did you use

434
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 4: sexism to point out that that's why that question is

435
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 4: even being proposed in the first.

436
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: Place, right, I mean, it is not the easiest time

437
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: to be a comedian, No.

438
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 4: To be a comedian who also wants access to mainstream

439
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 4: media and opportunities. Yeah, it's probably some new guardrails that

440
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 4: are up. But like the idea that you cannot go

441
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 4: do fifty cities right now and sell a thousand seats

442
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 4: in each city, or even three hundred and four hundred seats,

443
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 4: which is a completely acceptable living, that still remains, that

444
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 4: never left. That part of it, I think is still there.

445
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 4: Once you find your audience and find the people who

446
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 4: love you, everything else is just extra gravy. And I

447
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 4: think the parameters upon which you can now is a

448
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 4: terrible analogy. The parameters upon which you can now collect

449
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 4: extra gravy as a performer, that's different.

450
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 5: For sure.

451
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 4: You know, you can say the wrong thing and they

452
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 4: can get you fired from a TV show or get

453
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 4: you pulled off of a late night show, which helps

454
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 4: to drive your live ticket sales. So there definitely is

455
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 4: a cause and effect to speaking your mind. But you know,

456
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 4: it's just just in my experience in the comedians that

457
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 4: I know, even the most canceled and most hated of comedians,

458
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 4: they never stopped doing forty cities.

459
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: Interesting. I wanted to ask you, we both have parents

460
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: in the business, so to speak. Yes, many call me

461
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: a Nefo baby, though I think when you're forty four,

462
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: I'm a nepo oldie. But I wanted to ask you.

463
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: Your father has this really cool legacy of being a

464
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: broadcaster and covering a lot of you know, important historic events,

465
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 1: and I was hoping you could talk about that.

466
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean pretty much anywhere black people were getting

467
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 4: beat up, he showed up with a tape recorder to

468
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 4: tell the story. Like, that's probably the simplest summation of

469
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 4: my father's time, you know, within journalism. You know, he

470
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 4: at the time was working at WVO INN in Chicago,

471
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 4: the Voice of the Negro. He volunteered to go with

472
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 4: Chicago based Vietnam platoons to be embedded with you know,

473
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 4: they were coming back and telling the stories of how

474
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 4: racist it was over there and how they were getting

475
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 4: mistreated by the American militaristic leadership over there. You know,

476
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: there was you know, the black units were sent in

477
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 4: first to be eradicated by the viet Cong and then

478
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 4: the white unit would come in and kick ass and

479
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 4: clean up. You know, it's saying they would take all

480
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 4: the credit. And so you know, my dad was there

481
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 4: to cover that. He went to Zimbabwe Rhodije at the

482
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 4: time during their civil war, took sniper fire there, took

483
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 4: sniper fire in Soweto, covering the riots in South Africa,

484
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: and of course the old civil rights movement. Lots of bullets,

485
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 4: dog bites flying there. My father was there for that

486
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 4: as well. Somewhere in the middle of all of that.

487
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 4: He still had a couple of kids, raised her family

488
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 4: and also did a jazz show, right, just also jazz music.

489
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 4: It wasn't all chaos.

490
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: I want to ask you though, growing up in a

491
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: house like that, and I mean I had similar My

492
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: grandfather was more involved in civil rights, my mother was

493
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: more involved in whatever that was. Do you feel a

494
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: sort of like that this larger mission that your parents

495
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: had was relevant to you or no?

496
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 4: From the beginning, my father always did news commentary, a

497
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 4: weekly news commentary like a black angry Andy Rooney, but

498
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 4: about race. You know. He did a weekly news commentary show.

499
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 4: He took calls, he talked to the people in the streets.

500
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 4: And there are a lot of times, especially during the summer,

501
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 4: where I would just sit in a radio station with him.

502
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 4: I'm drawing and just doing kid stuff, and he would

503
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 4: just be going off about what's going on in this world.

504
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 4: And here's where you need to keep your eyes open.

505
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 4: So you know, that type of stuff eventually seeps in.

506
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 4: It's inevitable. And then when I got I remember when

507
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 4: I got my learners permit when I was fifteen, and

508
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 4: my dad made me start driving him everywhere to speaking

509
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 4: engagements on the weekend. So I would go with him

510
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 4: to churches and community centers just around this, you know,

511
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 4: anything three hours or less. We would immediately just I

512
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 4: would just he would be swarm by people. Brotherwood, what

513
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 4: you said about that thing?

514
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: Man keep doing?

515
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 4: And then I was sitting in the back of the

516
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 4: church and just watch my dad just lay fire into

517
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 4: America for an hour. And we get back in the

518
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: car and stop at rallies for a Burger on the

519
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 4: way home. I definitely didn't step into that into my

520
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 4: thirties though. I went to journalism because I wanted to

521
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 4: do sports. I didn't think that I at that side

522
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 4: of me in me.

523
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, it's funny because it

524
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: is to have people like that who are public facing

525
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: and then you have this completely different private experience of them.

526
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it definitely is odd in that way. But

527
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 4: you know, for who my father was on the microphone,

528
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 4: he definitely was that off the microphone in terms of

529
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 4: what he believed and what he stood for. You know,

530
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 4: traveled a lot, I got a lot of have siblings,

531
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 4: so I probably didn't get as much of the full

532
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 4: father experience, but I definitely got the full him as

533
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 4: a businessman and a journalist experience that I for sure got.

534
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about how you sort of

535
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: set about these White House Correspondents jokes and more. Who

536
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: did you take with you to write, and how did

537
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: you decide and what were your sort of in your

538
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: mind the possible pitfalls.

539
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 4: The only pitfall that I really was thinking about was

540
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 4: being misunderstood. I'm okay with somebody not laughing at a joke.

541
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 4: I don't care. That's part of the game. But if

542
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 4: you think I meant one thing, and then you take

543
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 4: that and you make it seem like I meant the other,

544
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 4: how can we change the verbiage of everything so it

545
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 4: fits better, you know, like in that regard like That's

546
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 4: something that I for sure was very paranoid about, you know,

547
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 4: myself and my writers, my head writer Christiana and Bakoway Medina,

548
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 4: who's a former Daily Show writers just how we connected.

549
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 4: Christiana and I. We spoke about trying to figure out

550
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 4: how to construct the set in a way where it

551
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 4: introduces you to me as a performer, gets you to

552
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 4: trust me, and then gain the equity to go at

553
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 4: the president and the vice president all in six minutes,

554
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 4: because I have I was given fifteen. I ended up

555
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,479
Speaker 4: doing about twenty twenty five, I think. But that first

556
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 4: five minutes is so pivotal to the entirety of the performance.

557
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 4: I've to introduced myself. I have to get you to

558
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: trust me, which means I need you to make me laugh.

559
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 4: Then the next two jokes that I do have to

560
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 4: also be funny, but strategic and edgy so that we

561
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 4: can establish the guardrails. That's why the school shooting joke

562
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 4: is so high up in the set. And if you

563
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 4: notice there isn't a groner joke after that. There's jokes

564
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 4: people may not laugh at, but.

565
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: In terms of oh wow, would you do that?

566
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 4: There's no other jokes like that. But I have to

567
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 4: give you the groaner just to know I have that

568
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 4: in my back pocket if I want to use it.

569
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: Can you talk to me a little bit about the

570
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: vice president. I actually was on Bacari Seller's podcast today

571
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: and I we were talking about her and just I mean,

572
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: I've long believed that she is having the experience on

573
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: a much larger scale than a lot of black women have,

574
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: and that she's just working twice as hard, and I'm

575
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: just curious, like she's such a meaningful elected in my mind,

576
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: and I'm curious, like if that wait on you and

577
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: just to talk about that a little bit.

578
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so then to the point of being misunderstood,

579
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 4: right right, that was a joke that I wanted to

580
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 4: make sure that we didn't misstep on because the first

581
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: thing I have to do, I cannot avoid what people

582
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 4: have been saying. People say the president is old. I

583
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: have to have jokes on that. People say, Kamala doesn't

584
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 4: do anything, I have to address that. But rather than

585
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 4: just solely make jokes about it, I found it more

586
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 4: interesting to continue following the thread like a journalist into why, well,

587
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 4: why do people feel that way? Well, what has she done?

588
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 4: Has she done anything? Okay, Well, let's find a joke

589
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 4: or two that serves that, and then let's get into

590
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 4: what she's done. Make jokes off of the policy, and

591
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 4: then why Oh I bet it's because she's a woman

592
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: and she's black. Oh wow, would you look at there,

593
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 4: she's actually done stuff. Well, why are people talking about

594
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 4: that stuff? Okay, well, then let's combine that blind spot

595
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 4: with the feminism, I mean with the sexism, and then

596
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 4: there's your joke. So then on the other side of that,

597
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 4: the hope is that you understand that, Yeah, I made

598
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 4: a joke about her not doing nothing, but let's also

599
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 4: acknowledge that a lot of why y'all are even posing

600
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 4: that question is because she's a woman.

601
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

602
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 4: And by the way, mister president, great job on being

603
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: a vice president.

604
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: I mean I also think like that that job is

605
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: the job where if you're doing it too hard, then

606
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: everyone's mad at you if you I mean, like you know,

607
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: your base, your job is understudy. I mean, that's never

608
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: going to be something that makes people happy.

609
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's going to be people who are going to

610
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 4: take that, you know. And there were people that said

611
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 4: I attacked her, and then there were a couple of

612
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 4: articles that came out that said that I defended her

613
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: and you know, stood up for the vice president and

614
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 4: saying that a lot of it is sexism. You know,

615
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 4: some people, you can't Whether you agree with me is

616
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 4: separate and apart from whether or not you understood. Everybody understood.

617
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: Now you can disagree or not agree. I don't care.

618
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: I'm not going to get into no back and forth

619
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: and I'm not going to be doing a bunch of

620
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: interviews explaining no jokes. If you're that stupid that I

621
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 4: just got to leave you out there and stupid land

622
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 4: and then with my next comedy special, then I have

623
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 4: more time to play the game with a little more nuance.

624
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: Talk to me about your show, what you're touring with

625
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: right now?

626
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, right now? I mean, you know what's funny about

627
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: this tour. They're happy to be here tour. What's interesting

628
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 4: about it is that I think that a lot of

629
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: people believe that who don't know my comedy. And here's

630
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 4: the double edged sword of it all. Because you don't

631
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 4: know my comedy, I have to introduce you to how

632
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 4: I see the world within the Correspondence dinner. But within

633
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: the Correspondence dinner, you have to take shots at people

634
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: specifically I have to say Tucker Craus and I have

635
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: to say Don Lemon. But in my actual stand up,

636
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 4: I'm more of an issue driven person than I've ever

637
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 4: been a particular person. Like I don't call out people

638
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 4: by name on a regular basis. That's not my thing.

639
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 4: That's not what I do. I will call out gun control,

640
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: I will call out women's rights. So you know, I

641
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 4: think on tour it'll be a lot more leaning towards that.

642
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 4: But you know, I just have fun talking about the

643
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 4: nonsensical and the weird stuff, you know, Like I actually

644
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 4: feel bad for Donald Trump, Like this dude doesn't have

645
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 4: everybody he's snitched on him. Not a single person has

646
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 4: not taken a deal. Right, anybody that's been arrested for

647
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 4: dealing with Trump is singing, And that's sad. You're supposed

648
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 4: to have at least one friend because people go, oh,

649
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, he's he's like a rapper, Not exactly. Rappers

650
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 4: have people who don't snitch on them.

651
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, but Donald Trump is probably going to

652
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: be the nominee in twenty four.

653
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 4: And I'm sure he'll run a great camp from prison.

654
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: Who do you think is vice president is going to be?

655
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 4: I think Tim Scott?

656
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: Oh wow?

657
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 4: You know Tim Scott tried to get a police reform

658
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 4: bill passed that checked a lot of boxes that were

659
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,239
Speaker 4: very similar to the George Floyd Policing Act that the

660
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 4: Democrats were trying to get through a while, you know,

661
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 4: a few years ago, and it got filibustered. So the

662
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 4: issue becomes, though, how do you have a vice president

663
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 4: that's backing police reform coupled with a president who we

664
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 4: know is going to say we got to get tough

665
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 4: on crime, and we got to evict all the all

666
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 4: the Mexicans, and we got to deport all the herbs.

667
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: And you know, has your life changed since that White

668
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: House Correspondent? Since you killed it at the White House Correspondent?

669
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 4: I got a DM from a really nice furniture company.

670
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 4: If you asked me if I wanted an end table,

671
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 4: and it's changed for a Social posts.

672
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: Most expensive ending.

673
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 4: It was a really nice end table. But I'm like,

674
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 4: I'm not a furniture influencer. That also means I have

675
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: to show you the rest of my house.

676
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, I mean spu con. You know, we

677
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: once got it when we were doing with this podcast.

678
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: We sometimes get like the if we do an ad

679
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: for someone, they'll send us the free staff.

680
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, like every time then you get something like Okay, yeah,

681
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 4: that's nice. I promote that else.

682
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you now, I mean, what's

683
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: sort of the future for you? Now?

684
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 4: You know for me? You know, we just have to

685
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 4: wait and see what happens on the other side of

686
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 4: the writer's strike with regards to the Daily Show. But

687
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 4: I am if it's two things I definitely had fun

688
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 4: doing in the last month. It's guest hosting the Daily

689
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 4: Show and doing the correspondent to Dinner, because those were

690
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 4: two different opportunities for me to explore the things that

691
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 4: I I'm curious about talking about and that was very,

692
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 4: very intriguing to me and I had a very good time.

693
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: How long do you think this takes?

694
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: I do not know, and I'm not even going to

695
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 4: remotely try to speculate on that. I just know that

696
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 4: no matter what. On the other side of this, we

697
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 4: got to have a system where writers are paid fairly,

698
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 4: you know, and studios are open about who's watching what

699
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: and where the money's coming in from, so we can

700
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 4: split the pot properly. You know, this isn't about people

701
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 4: wanting to bankrupt the studio. They're just tired of living

702
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 4: one paycheck away from bankruptcy themselves. And you know, I

703
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 4: think that no matter what. On the other side of it,

704
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 4: Late Night is going to change as well, you know,

705
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 4: and I think economics are going to change, because if

706
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 4: you have to pay more money to the talent, then

707
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 4: you're going to want to make your shows more cheaply.

708
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 4: So you know, we might be this might be the

709
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 4: end of the era I call it the shiny floor shows, right,

710
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 4: you know, the shiny floor and then the big band

711
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 4: and all of that. You know, But what does political

712
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 4: satire look like? Because there will always be Americans who

713
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 4: have a desire to laugh and a desire to make

714
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 4: sense of a lot of the bs that's going on

715
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: in the world. So you know, I want to be

716
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: somewhere in the chair, you know, quarterback in that.

717
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. Oh, thank you. Hi.

718
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: It's Mollie and I am wildly excited that for the

719
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to right now,

720
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: is going to have merch for sale over at shop

721
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: dot fastpoliticspod dot com. You can now buy shirts, hats, hoodies,

722
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: and toe bags with our incredible designs. We've heard your

723
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: cries to spread the word about our podcast and get

724
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: a tow bag with my adorable Leah the Rescue Puppy

725
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: on it. And now you can grab this merchandise only

726
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. Thanks for your support.

727
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: Karen Tumulty is a deputy opinion editor at The Washington Post.

728
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Karen. It's so great to be here.

729
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you. I wanted to talk to

730
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: you about the debt ceiling fiasco. It feels like, I mean,

731
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: I know this is not the first time Washington has

732
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: found itself here, but it does seem like the scariest.

733
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely, because I think it's it's kind of an

734
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 5: entirely different mindset in the House of Representatives than we

735
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 5: have ever seen before. And the margins for Kevin McCarthy,

736
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 5: even if he were a sort of the shrewdest legislative

737
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 5: tactician ever, which he isn't, it would be just a

738
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 5: lot harder for him. But I mean, there are a

739
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 5: lot of people in the House who believe that they

740
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 5: were elected to burn the place down.

741
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about that for a second, because

742
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: I think that's really important, this idea that they were

743
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: elected to burn the place down, because I do think

744
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: that we haven't seen that phenomenon in a while.

745
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 5: And also that these are you know, after we saw

746
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 5: that kind of marathon of votes that it took for

747
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 5: Kevin McCarthy to become the speaker. I mean, you look

748
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 5: at the final holdouts that people he literally owes to

749
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 5: speakership are of the again, you know, the we need

750
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 5: to use this to get all the leverage we can.

751
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 5: And of course, as it's become almost a cliche to

752
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 5: have to explain to people, no, this is not the

753
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 5: debt ceiling vote is not about controlling spending in the future.

754
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 5: It's just about paying your bills from the past, right.

755
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean that I think is a real problem,

756
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: and I mean that seems like a failure of democratic messaging, right,

757
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: Like Republicans don't do this to Republican presidents. Well, that's

758
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: for sure.

759
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 5: And also I think it's just kind of ay even

760
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 5: as a political issue, it's a fake. My colleague Paul

761
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 5: Kane did a terrific piece over the weekend where he

762
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 5: looked back at the dead ceiling. Quote, it's not anything

763
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 5: that ever comes up against people during election season. This

764
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 5: is not a it should not be a hard vote, right.

765
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: No, exactly. I mean again, this is not the time

766
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: you negotiate a budget when you've already spent the money.

767
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 5: Well, the other thing is, there is actually a budget

768
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 5: process in Congress that they ceased to follow starting about

769
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 5: a decade ago. In fact, has not actually passed a

770
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 5: budget resolution since I think twenty sixteen. I mean, they

771
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 5: don't even use the processes that they have. They don't

772
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 5: pass appropriations bills the way they are supposed to. They

773
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,959
Speaker 5: just kind of ball it up in a big hair

774
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 5: ball at the end. They don't even use the tools

775
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 5: that they have had since the early nineteen seventies to

776
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 5: bring spending under control. They just love to have these

777
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 5: kind of near death experiences.

778
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, because I'm thinking of

779
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: a lot about Nikki Haley's ill fated presidential run. I mean,

780
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: I guess we can't call it ill fated yet, but

781
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: it certainly does seem like she's not the things are

782
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: not you know what I mean? Is she polling even

783
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: as well as Mike Pence.

784
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 5: It is sort of hard to see what at this

785
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 5: point at least what the natural Nicky Haley constituency is.

786
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 5: But you know, there may come a time during this

787
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 5: campaign season, is during this primary season, where she has

788
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 5: a moment.

789
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: Right, No, it's true, but I wanted to ask you

790
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: about this because one of those central things she has

791
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: focused on is the national debt, which is fascinating because

792
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: that is something that almost no one else has had

793
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: any interest in and has really fallen out of fashion

794
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: on the right and on the left. So I you know,

795
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: I try not to two sides, but on this one,

796
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: nobody is pro paying down the debt except Nikki Haley.

797
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: So I mean, I just it seems so antiquated when

798
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: she brings it up. But that is ultimately what these

799
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: House Republicans, that is their whole argument here, right.

800
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, And look, this is a real issue. The debt

801
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 5: as a percentage of our gross domestic product is huge,

802
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 5: and you know, it is something that we are going

803
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 5: to need to grapple with if you know, we want

804
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 5: to assure the not only the future, but the present,

805
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 5: and also if we want there to be room for

806
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 5: investments for things like dealing with climate change. And there are,

807
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 5: by the way, some pretty obvious things to do about it,

808
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 5: starting with somehow bringing in title and spending under control.

809
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 5: But you start talking about that kind of stuff off

810
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 5: and you know, everybody were uns.

811
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: We could also cut the military. I mean, you know,

812
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: I'm just saying we're going to do things that make

813
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: people crazy.

814
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 5: Military spending though right now is as a percentage of

815
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 5: economy is a pretty low percentage in historical terms. Plus

816
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 5: we've got the fact that you know, we're essentially trying

817
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 5: to help Ukraine fight World War one in Europe and

818
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 5: facing the prospect of World War three in China.

819
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: In China, yeah, no, I mean, it's definitely a real problem. Though.

820
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: I still, you know, like with so many things, like

821
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: with medicare, you could fix a lot of those by

822
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: fixing immigration.

823
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 5: Well, that's true, and that, you know, used to be

824
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 5: something that the Republican Party was very much in favor of.

825
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 5: I guess I'm showing my age.

826
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I just wrote a big piece on

827
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 1: no fault Divorces comes out I guess today or tomorrow,

828
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: and in it I talked about how, you know, the

829
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: person who brought no fault divorces into being, which was

830
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: a very fast, you know, ultimately a very feminist thing

831
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: that prevented you know, a huge number of female suicides

832
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: and caught you know, was very much a good, a

833
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: good for women, was a certain divorce a named Ronald Reagan.

834
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 5: That is exactly correct, And in fact, I deal with

835
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 5: that just a bit in my biography of Nancy Reagan.

836
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 5: That in the day when in the late nineteen forties,

837
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 5: when Ronald Reagan was getting divorced from Jane Wyman, the

838
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 5: grounds that people would cite was something called mental cruelty,

839
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 5: and it really always bothered Reagan. I mean justifiably that

840
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 5: you know, mental cruelty was you know, part of his record.

841
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 5: So that is true.

842
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we see really in the many ways

843
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 1: in which the right has moved in a strange way,

844
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: there's just been such a sea change in the Republican

845
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: Party in ways that are trump that are things that

846
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: the differences between w and Reagan. I mean, it's just

847
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: it's very interesting to say.

848
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 5: Well, it's really part even to define anywhere what conservatism is,

849
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 5: because for Donald Trump, that seems like conservatism is and

850
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 5: patriotism are more a tone of voice than they are

851
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 5: a set of principles.

852
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: Do you think that's because Donald Trump was so charismatic

853
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: And again this is not an endorsement in any way

854
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: important to mention this, but he had this sort of

855
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: political charisma that Republican politician hasn't had in a long time.

856
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: And because he was so undisciplined and ultimately was very nihilistic,

857
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: that was sort of he sort of abandoned all of

858
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: the kind of pretensive principle.

859
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 5: Well, I think he was just an incredible brander, right,

860
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 5: I think that, you know, one of the most important

861
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 5: things to know about Donald Trump was that he actually

862
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 5: we trademark the phrase make America Great Again. Six days

863
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 5: after the twenty twelve election, Mitt Romney had just surprised

864
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 5: a lot of Republicans by losing. The Republican Party is

865
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 5: embarking on this, you know now infamous autopsy where they

866
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 5: were saying, oh, you know, in the future, we are

867
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 5: just going to have to appeal more to women and

868
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 5: to young people and diversity, and there is a guy

869
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 5: sitting there on Sith Avenue calling up the Patent and

870
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 5: Trademark Office. You can actually look this up and trademarking

871
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 5: the phrase make America great again. And he trademarks it

872
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 5: even in those block letters that you see on the hats.

873
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 5: I mean, he sort of saw something, He saw an

874
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 5: opening in the kind of aggrieved Republican base and a

875
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,479
Speaker 5: lot of other people that I think nobody else saw.

876
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty incredible and it's funny because right that,

877
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: make America great again is his phrase?

878
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 5: Well, that's at one point I was interviewing him that

879
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,919
Speaker 5: it and I pointed out that Reagan had also used

880
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 5: make America great again.

881
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: And didn't Lindbergh use it to that was America first? Oh,

882
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: America first? Right? Right's right?

883
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well I pointed out to Trump that Reagan had

884
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 5: also used make America great again. He said, yes, that

885
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 5: he didn't trademark it.

886
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: Jesus. Yeah, well there you go. I mean that is,

887
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things as we continue on this,

888
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: I was watching that deposition video from the Eugene Carol case.

889
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: When you watch Trump during that deposition, you see a

890
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: different Trump. You don't see the campaign Trump you see

891
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: the kind of uh, I want to say, smug and

892
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: self satisfied Trump that I thought was pretty interesting that

893
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: you could be deposed for a civil case and to

894
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: sort of have no remorse and not even pretend to.

895
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 5: That that is also part of his immo. I mean

896
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 5: he doesn't have remorse. I mean he just sort of

897
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 5: keeps going, and in doing so, he has violated basically

898
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 5: everything that we used to think, you know, all the

899
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 5: laws of political gravity. But I think you see that

900
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 5: a lot. You know, you see that now in a

901
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 5: lot of the generation of politicians that trump Ism has spawned.

902
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 5: I mean you see the same thing in a Marjorie

903
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 5: Taylor Green or Lauren Bobert. It's just like, never apologize,

904
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 5: just keep going.

905
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: So here's my question, and this is not this is

906
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: a question and nothing else. Does it work for them?

907
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 5: Well, I think that as long as they are appealing

908
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 5: to a hardcore base, if that is all they need,

909
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 5: if that is all that it takes, say, to get

910
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 5: you elected in Marjorie Taylor Green's district, yeah you can

911
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 5: keep going. But the thing about Trump is what he

912
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 5: has not done is expand his reach. So you think

913
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 5: that as a political model at some point this has

914
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 5: to collapse, and it did collapse in twenty twenty.

915
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: Again, they won't acknowledge that, but I mean, you.

916
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 5: Know, the Republican Party has only won the popular vote

917
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 5: in a presidential election once since nineteen eighty eight.

918
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, Like, if you think about it, we're

919
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: likely going to have Trump be the Republican nominee. I mean,

920
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: unless something happens. We now have seen that indict being

921
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: indicted is certainly not disqualifying to the Republican base. I

922
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: think that's a fair thing to say. I mean, don't

923
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: you Gray, Oh.

924
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, this has become not a Shae, It's become a stigmata,

925
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 5: right exactly.

926
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean, so terrifying to think of it as a stigmata.

927
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: But you're absolutely right. So if that is not disqualifying,

928
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: then it seems that even the promise of more indictments

929
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: will not necessarily change the calculus for Donald Trump.

930
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 5: I am one of the you know, and again this

931
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 5: has sort of become conventional wisdom, but I think that,

932
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 5: you know, the indictment that we have seen thus far,

933
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 5: you know, is not the strongest case, right that could

934
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 5: be you know, set against him. Potentially the Justice Department

935
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 5: could come up with something more serious, but it is

936
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 5: not going to matter to his supporters, who are not

937
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 5: a majority and not even close to her majority, and

938
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 5: you know, is a smaller kernel of the electorate than

939
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 5: it has ever been.

940
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: Probably, Yeah, I mean the thing that I'm struck by

941
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: is just how you know, if you were to just

942
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: take a clear eye and look at Republican performance under Trump, right,

943
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: you would see that they continue to underperform with Trump

944
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: as the leader of the party. That twenty sixteen was

945
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: an anathema, I think that's the right word or whatever

946
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: it is. You know, something that was completely unexpected, but

947
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: that since then they've tried to do, you capture that

948
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: and have been unable.

949
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 5: I think that is true. And so you know what

950
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 5: we're seeing though, is they are nonetheless sort of increasing

951
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 5: their leverage and their use of the tools within the

952
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 5: political system. You look at these state legislatures where you

953
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 5: know Republicans and twenty eight state legislatures now have super majorities,

954
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 5: meaning they can you know, do whatever they want to

955
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 5: override a governor's beach show. And of those twenty eight,

956
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 5: all but nine are Republicans. So you see, you know,

957
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 5: they are taking what are in their states and the

958
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 5: minority positions on issues like guns and abortion, but they

959
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 5: are nonetheless forging ahead.

960
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone yesterday about Antiu Cuomo, who,

961
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: in one of the worst moments in my career, was

962
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: focused around my worst pieces I've ever written that I

963
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: continue to apologize for that at the do you know,

964
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: years and years later was about him. But I just

965
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: want to, you know, with with Andrew Cuomo. You know,

966
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: here was someone who had a real Republican attitude for

967
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: fighting dirty and he even he, you know, couldn't get

968
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: the partisan redistricting the way you know a Republican might have,

969
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: and it ended up being the reason that Democrats lost

970
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: the House.

971
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 5: Well, it's also they overreached and the court struck them down.

972
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 5: I mean, and you know that is also part of

973
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 5: our system that we should be grateful still exists in

974
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 5: some place.

975
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, not anywhere where it would, you know,

976
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: not anywhere read But it is interesting And one of

977
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: the things I wanted to ask you about is that

978
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: in Mississippi, a good friend of this podcast, James Carville,

979
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: who comes on here a lot, it's pretty excited about

980
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: this governor's race in Mississippi with a candidate called Presley,

981
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: who was related to the Elvis Presley, and he thinks

982
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 1: that there's a world in which Democrats could take back

983
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: Mississippi as they did with I mean and Kansas. I mean,

984
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: does this seem like a pipe dream to you?

985
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 5: I will believe it when I see it. And the

986
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 5: one thing I think that is true is that the

987
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 5: Democrats are going to have to get a lot more

988
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 5: skilled and aggressive at their ground game, at things like

989
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:23,240
Speaker 5: voter registration, voter mobilization, you know, the kinds of things

990
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 5: that we saw happen in Georgia are going to happen elsewhere.

991
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 5: You're going to need more than just a charismatic, appealing candidate.

992
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 5: And I do think that in a lot of places

993
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 5: the Democrats have really neglected that they hadn't put the

994
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 5: money in, they haven't put other resources in, they haven't

995
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 5: paid the kind of attention to that stuff. But if

996
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 5: you don't have you know, people registered, and if you

997
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 5: don't have assurances that they're actually going to vote, it

998
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 5: doesn't matter.

999
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: Right, It's certainly true, and I think you're You're totally right.

1000
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: So what is I'm going to ask you the last

1001
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: question here, which is what is the thing that is

1002
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: keeping you up at night.

1003
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 5: Oh boy, so many things, honestly, and just afraid of

1004
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 5: the kind. And again, I mean November of twenty twenty

1005
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 5: four is a long long way away still, but there

1006
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 5: are just so many ways for people to get in

1007
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 5: and mess with the system, and you don't find out

1008
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 5: about it until it's too late.

1009
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, that'll keep me up tonight. Thank you, Karen.

1010
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back.

1011
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 5: I'd love to thank you so much for having me.

1012
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: No moment Thick Jesse Cannon Eye junk Fast. There are

1013
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: some big news in a trial that you were mentioned in. Yeah,

1014
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: I try to stay out of trials, but somehow you're

1015
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: not doing a good job. We not doing a very

1016
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: good job. Turns out that lawyer ROBERTA. Capwin you may

1017
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: know her from arguing the Defensive Marriage Act. She's a

1018
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: pretty good lawyer, perhaps a better lawyer than Donald Trumps

1019
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: mafia lawyer Joe Takapina. Either way, Egen Carol has won

1020
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: her case against Donald Trump to the tune of five

1021
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: million dollars. Again, anyone knows. I'm sure that Donald Trump

1022
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: will try desperately to not pay it, but she did it.

1023
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: She wins five million dollars. Congratulations to Egen, Carol, and

1024
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: to ROBERTA. Kaplan. It's not fuckery, it's just great. Congratulations. Guys.

1025
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1026
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

1027
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1028
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1029
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.