WEBVTT - Who and How To Regulate Crypto 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:06.360 I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News, 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.400 and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I heard podcast. 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:19.360 It's Friday, August five. With every additional bankruptcy filing or 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.000 accusation of insider trading and crypto regulators seem to turn 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.079 up the heat ever so slightly when it comes to 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.760 their focus on the digital assets industry. But who's planning 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.839 on doing the regulating and what would that even look like? 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.240 More importantly, what does it mean that the regulators themselves 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.239 don't entirely seem to agree joining me to bring us 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.360 up to speed on what's happening these days with US 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.639 crypto regulation. We have to Bloomberg reportes Alison verse Bro 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:50.720 in d C. So the CFTC has argued, we feel 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.240 like we have the expertise to do this, and Alex 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.000 newin the current regulation framework in the US is a 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:03.640 patchwork and it's inadequate. Welcome and thank you both so 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.960 much for being here. Alison, you're in d C. You are, 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.959 you know, dialing in from the studio that we have 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.959 there in the office, and as a result, you have 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:19.240 probably more real time access to what's going on as 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.240 it relates to legislators on the hill, as it relates 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.440 to how regulators are thinking about things. So I'm going 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.039 to start with you. We've seen the collapse of an 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.720 algorithmic stable coin. We have seen prices of assets across 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.720 the board being quite far from their old time highs. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:42.200 We have seen multiple enforcement actions including the SEC, the 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.040 d o J, other regulators, and other entities of the U. S. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:52.160 Government accusing people of everything from insider trading to wire fraud. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.560 Is this environment one that you think is adding some 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.720 urgency to the activity that you're seeing there? I think 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.559 it is, and in certain places, right I think, Um, 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:07.080 you know, you mentioned the collapse of of Terra, so 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.840 that obviously added some urgency around the stable coin discussions. 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.200 And we do see those, um, you know, starting to 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.720 go somewhere, at least trying to go somewhere. Of whenever 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.760 you're talking about legislation in the US, it's quite difficult 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.280 to get that done on a bar partisan basis, um. 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:28.880 But basically, you know, we've seen Treasury actually getting involved, um, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.560 in particular with a bill that's being worked out on 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.720 the House side between a Chairwoman Maxine Waters and ranking 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:40.280 Member Patrick McHenry on the House Financial Services Committee. UM, 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:41.720 so we know that they've been trying to work out 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.200 a deal. We know that they're getting pretty close, um, 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.200 that there are still some hang ups. So that's definitely 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.519 a place where we could potentially see action and maybe 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.720 even by the end of the year though mid terms 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.120 are coming up in November and we know that Congress 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.760 kind of gets a little side checked, um anytime that 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:04.840 we have an election year, So we'll see what happens there. UM, 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:09.240 I'd say another area, definitely, you know, we're seeing a 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.639 lot of enforcement. UM. In particular, we've seen some actions 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.280 or we saw an action over the last last month 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.960 on an insider trading case at the SEC. Broad we 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.840 also know that the SEC it has an active probe 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.680 into coin Based, the largest US exchange, and it's whether 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.720 it's offering you know, unregistered securities on its platform. The 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.920 SEC looking into coin based, it raises the question of 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.640 defining what is the security, what is the commodity? Who 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.360 has control over what? I mean? How far away are 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.360 we really from getting those answers? But we can expect 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.600 I think some of that to pick up as well. UM. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.120 And then the last thing I would say is we've 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:50.080 definitely seen sort of a growing um effort on Capitol 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.040 Hill to you know, give the Commodity Futures Trading Commission 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.080 more authority to regulate cryptocurrency directly. So basically, right now 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.040 it has most a jurisdiction over crypto derivatives. But you know, 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.440 if there are some folks I think certain coins like bitcoin, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.880 ether are commodities and that they should be directly regulated 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:15.000 by the CFTC. We've started to see some lawmakers um 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.760 supporting that effort. You know, I think it remains to 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.800 be seen whether or not you could get enough lawmakers 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.360 on board to actually pass something in the House and Senate. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.800 But you know, another one to watch um at the 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.240 end of this year and into next year. So just 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.320 to unpack that for the folks who aren't necessarily paying 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.680 attention to the minute of which US regulators involved in crypto, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.360 there's there's almost like factions might be too strong a word, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.360 but there are definitely different perspectives and approaches here, right So, 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.159 as you've identified, on the one hand, we have the 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.599 U S Securities and Exchange Commission in the SEC which 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.040 typically does not get involved in anything that looks like 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:58.560 a commodity, which, for argument's sake, let's say Bitcoin and 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.599 ether are considered to be. But then over on the 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.719 other side, you have somebody which literally has commodities in 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.960 the name, um, the CFTC, which is like, hey, we're 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.400 here and we're very interested in doing these things. Now. 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:14.719 One of the things that we've talked a lot about 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.200 on this podcast is that everything else in crypto that's 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.560 not Bitcoin, that's not ether, seems to be up for 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.680 grabs over whether it is defined as a security or 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.479 if it's just defined as a commodity. Is that a 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.000 fair assessment of the of the fight right now? I 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.440 would say that's a fair assessment, And I think, you know, 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.240 we definitely see the crypto industry kind of pushing for 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.159 for the CFTC to be its main regulator. Um. You know, 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.160 I have heard a few reasons why. Um, the industry 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.000 will say that they feel like the CFTC is more 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:49.720 open to working with them, and that they feel like 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:53.440 their assets truly our commodities, um, and thus that regulator 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.800 is a better one for them, whereas maybe more cynical 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.320 folks would say, I would say that the CFCC has 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.600 you know, less stringent investor protection standards, and you know, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.200 there's some thought that they may be a little bit 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:12.080 of an easier regulator than the SEC, though I will 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.160 note UM Chair Rosten Venom of the of the CFTC 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.400 has pushed back against that aggressively. UM you know, always 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.440 points to their enforcement record. You know, they have brought 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.880 dozens of enforcement cases UM over the last several years, 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.040 and so he's continued to say that the CFTC is 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.760 aggressive of the c CFTC will continue to go after 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:36.680 fraud and manipulation in this area. You know, there's there's definitely, uh, 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.719 some debate as to as to why the industry would 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:41.839 be pushing for the CFTC, but it's definitely something that 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.200 we're seeing right now. And Alex you have written about 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.919 exactly that that Allison is describing this idea of the 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.560 CFTC saying, hey, no, we're here, We're serious, We're ready 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:52.599 for this. Can you talk a little bit more about that. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.000 The SEC has seemed to have taken a more aggressive 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.560 effort when it comes to enforcement actions, but the CFTC 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:04.360 chair have also recently signaled that the agency is also 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:08.279 going to ram up it's UM enforcement actions as well. 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.560 Pointing out that the current regulation framework in the US 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.880 is a patchwork and it's inadequate in terms of UM 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.280 regulating the industry. And he has also said that they 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:25.160 will creatively use their authority in this field to do 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.120 so without really naming exactly what that would look like. Yes, 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.800 the thing that various people in crypto seem to be 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.840 clamoring for is the C word, which is clarity. You 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:36.560 you hear this a lot. They're like, we just want 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.680 to know what rules we have to follow, as um 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.360 Allison said earlier, more cynical folks might argue they want 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.040 to know what those rules are so they can immediately 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.360 higher lawyers who can help them not have those rules 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.520 applies to them. But there definitely does seem to be 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:54.560 a very strong and explicit desire for at least some boundaries, 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.240 guardrails whom I regulate. Is what those things are? As 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.239 you know, Alex has pointed out the cfc C is saying, Hey, 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.400 we're here where we want to be able to do this, 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.360 What in your experience would that look like? And how 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.840 might that be different from what the SEC is proposing. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:10.800 That's one of the arguments that they make. But I 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.760 do know that. The CFTC also has pointed out that 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.360 if it were to get more authority and more jurisdiction, 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.560 that it would need additional resources. I think an important 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.640 important point to make is that the CFTC is a 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.360 much smaller agency than the SEC, which some say is 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.760 an argument for why the SEC maybe should take this 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.120 over just because it has more resources, that has more money, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.720 it has more staff. UM. So the CFTC has argued, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.240 you know, we feel like we have the expertise to 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.760 do this, but yes, we do need Congress to give 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.880 us more money. UM. There's been talk of maybe, you know, 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.160 imposing some sort of user fee um like exists in 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.920 other industries to help pay for for some of this 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.240 extra work. So, you know, we'll have to see how 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.880 that all shakes out in terms of the you know, 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.280 the money, resources questions that would all have to get 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.920 approved by legislatives. Is that correct? That is correct? Um? 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:03.560 And like I said, some of the bills that we've 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.000 seen out there, such as the UM you know, there 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.720 was a bill from Senators Lammis and Jilla Brand and 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.559 that would have had some sort of user fee as 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.320 like the funding mechanism for this extra power. So I know, 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.280 that's been something that's been pretty popular in terms of 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.679 legislative proposals. But we'll have to see, you know, if 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.720 that's ultimately um, what ends up happening. Coming up, we'll 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:37.360 have more from Allison Verse, Brol and Alex Newin. One 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.920 thing we haven't talked about is what if everybody just 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.800 got along. They're like, we're all going to regulate crypto 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:44.560 and it's gonna be great, and we're going to combine 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.520 forces and we'll have twice as much ability to you know, 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.480 keep everyone in line. Like, what is the vibe, as 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.480 it were, that you're getting from folks that you've spoken 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:58.920 to the agencies? You know, the agencies always say, um, 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.320 that they that they worked together. And I think the staffs. 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.199 You know, if I talk to folks at these agencies, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.440 they say the staff in particular the career staff. You know, 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.160 they've worked together for years on these types of issues. UM. 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.360 I do think more recently, you know, the SEC brought 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.800 an insider trading case. Uh. In that case, it chose 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:22.800 to identify nine tokens as securities. If they were found 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.840 to have traded securities, then the company may well have 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:31.200 to file register with the SEC. As in exchange, and 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.479 I know that that created some frustration at the CFTC. 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:38.880 According to the sources that I talked to, they've been 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.319 conducting sort of a parallel investigation. There was a lot 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.160 of thought that maybe some of the tokens that were 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.920 identified by the SEC um could have actually been commodities. 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.080 And so you know, there's a feeling of being a 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.360 little bit bigfooted with that with that case. Um, So 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.520 I think that has created maybe some attention, and yes, 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.440 has exacerbated the tensions. And you know, there's been some 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.320 thought amongst staff. From one of the people that I 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.559 talked to, they said, the staff are concerned that are 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.360 they now going to have to go to the SEC 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.000 every time they want to carry out an enforcement action? 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.120 Do they need SEC approval? Um? You know, given sort 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.199 of this jurisdiction grabs. So we'll have to see how 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.240 that continues to kind of, you know, play itself out 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.800 in the coming months. Um if that causes maybe more 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.760 of a rift than we've seen before. Interesting. So it 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.240 sounds like, you know, in addition to folks in the 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.480 industry saying they want clarity, and I'll give a specific example. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.520 So right after this enforcement action, these allegations against the 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.200 former employee of coin base, as well as against coin 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.480 Base itself came to light. UM their chief legal officer 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.880 like went on Twitter and in a blog post to say, 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.200 you know, we have no securities on our platform. We 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.120 have an extensive review process that prevents there from being 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.520 securities in the pros platform. We've engaged with the SEC previously. 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.319 So you're definitely getting the impression that people do want clarity, 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.480 they want more communication, but they would much prefer that 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.680 that clarity being a direction that works better for them. Yes, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.599 I think yeah, going back to the cynical view. Um. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.120 You know, we had that a Bloomberg Crypto summit of 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.320 pretty recently and at that summit, SEC chair former SEC 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.240 chair Jay Clayton made a comment when he said, you know, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.920 the industry, when they talk about wanting regulatory clarity, what 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.040 they really want is de regulation and to be treated, 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.880 you know, differently than every other market. One of the 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:41.160 things that I think is important about regulation of digital 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:45.720 assets is to look at the etymology the genesis of 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:50.600 digital assets. They came about in a different way from 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:56.880 most financial innovations. Most financial innovations are domestic and institutional. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:04.359 Digital assets our global and largely retail that has presented 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:10.000 a regulatory challenge that we really haven't encountered before, which 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:15.040 is trying to have global coordination UM across a new 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.040 type of asset class at the retail level. So I 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.600 think if you think about it that way, you understand 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:30.720 why there's some challenges. So, you know, I I do 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.960 think though to the industry's point, you know, we haven't 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.360 really seen a ton of real rags or guidance in 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:42.000 this area. UM. I think in part because you know, 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.080 I've talked to folks that agencies where you know, this 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.560 is an emergency, emerging area. It takes a little while 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.480 for people to get educated on this stuff. And I 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.719 think you're actually starting to see more movement of late 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.240 because government agencies has had to have had some time 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.560 now to understand crypto a little bit more. Alex, just 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.080 as a closing question, I want to ask you about 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.600 an agency that doesn't often come up in crypto, which 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.199 is the fd I C. You wrote a story recently 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.760 about the fd i S the Federal Deposit Insurance Court, 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:17.280 which exists to help customers of banks be protected in 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.440 the event that something happens to that bank. But they 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.720 had to wait into a crypto situation. What was that? Yes, 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.800 So recently the fd i C and I believe the 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:33.040 Federal Reserve UM demanded Voyager is a now bankrupt crypto platform. 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.320 Voyager announced that they suspended UM deposited trading withdraws and 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:41.600 now they filed for a Chapter UM eleven bankruptcy productions 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.200 to clarify to their customers that the fd i C 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:51.320 doesn't ensure products issued by Voyager, and I think they 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:58.360 wanted the platforms to correct any misleading statements around that. So, Allison, 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.560 you know hearing things like this for the ft i C, 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.240 which really center around this idea of customer confusion. We 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.280 have customers being confused, we have crypto companies being confused, 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.440 we have regulators being confused. What hope is there for 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.120 clarity anytime soon? You know? I think we could see 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.520 some clarity around the edges on some of this stuff. Right. 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.680 So with the f d i C, they approved regulations 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.920 in May clarifying that, you know, the agency's procedures for 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.240 taking action against firms and people who make misleading claims 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.400 about deposit insurance, you know, essentially saying that you can't 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.240 do this, UM, we will come after you if you do. 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.400 And so I think we could see agencies putting out 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.920 little actions like this all around the perimeter that sort 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:46.000 of help investors and help clarify the rules in terms 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.320 of big action. You know. Again, I'll say that I 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.080 think the the stable coin effort, it's for sure one 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.480 of the most likely to the most likely to pass 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.840 in the near term. I say that with hesitancy because 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.480 whenever you're talking about legislation on Capitol Hill, um, it's 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.960 always kind of like take the timing with a grain assault, 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.240 you know, you always have to use as soon as 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.240 because things just they change pretty fast. Um. But we have, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.400 like I said, I mean, it seems like the big 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.040 hang up with stable quail legislation right now is over 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:23.280 a provision regarding custodial wallets, and essentially Democrats and the Treasury, 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.080 which has been working with lawmakers, want a provision in 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.560 there that would protect customers in cases where intermediaries uh 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:36.200 go insolvent um. And so this would separate assets that 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.160 they keep in custodial wallets from the proprietary assets of 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.960 these crypto firms and maybe have some protections to prevent 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.960 you know, situations like we've seen with some of these bankruptcies, 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.560 and so the big hang up there is they want 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.200 a federal requirement and I was told by sources that 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.400 Republicans are looking for that to be set at the 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.600 state level, and so you know that's one of the 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.400 hang ups. But if it's something that they can overcome 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.000 by September, which is their their next goal for considering 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.680 this legislation, then you know, I think, uh, it's looking 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:07.399 more likely that we get something by the end of 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.360 the year. Well, as you said, we'll see and if 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.119 it's and if it does happen, we'll report on it, 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.240 and if it doesn't happen, we'll probably have to report 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.639 on that too. So that is how it works. So 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.719 thank you so much, Alison, and thank you so much 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.480 Alex for joining us today. You can find more of 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.639 both Allison and Alex's work on the Bloomberg Terminal on 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.960 Bloomberg dot com and on Twitter. Allison is at ali 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.920 very Sprill that's a L L y V E R 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.480 s p r I L l E, and Alex is 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.680 at Alex nwin eleven. That's a L E x N 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:48.639 g U y E N two three one one. On 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.920 the next episode, of Bloomberg Crypto. I used to argue 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.080 you could divide folks into two categories, people who play 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:59.119 video games and people who don't. Gaming is bigger in 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:04.160 revenue terms worldwide than the film and television industries combined. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.040 It's also a complex universe that's currently dealing with hard 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:13.160 and necessary conversations over who benefits from that profitability, over 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.920 things like labor conditions, and of course about intellectual property. 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.480 And then you add blockchain and n f t s 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.159 into the mix and things get even more complicated. In 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.360 the next episode, you'll hear from Bloomberg reportos Cecilia donastells 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.639 you for a discussion of why and how crypto is 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:35.399 showing up in video games. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.880 daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.560 shows from I heeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.919 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.800 your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show to Crypto 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.000 at Bloomberg dot net or find us on Twitter. We're 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.560 at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:01.480 ver Galina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producer 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:06.119 is Sharon Burriro, Associate producer is Moses and um Dasta 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.720 wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrn. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.919 I'm Stacy, Marie, Ishmael. Have a great weekend.