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Speaker 1: It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great

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Speaker 2: And guess what.

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Speaker 1: Quint's is something that in the Todd household we already

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Speaker 1: the things I've been going through is I've transitioned from

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Speaker 1: being mister cot and ty guy to wanting a little

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Speaker 1: become mister quarter zip guy.

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Speaker 2: Well guess what.

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Speaker 1: I just know, hey, cashmere, that's pretty good. You don't

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Speaker 1: normally get that for fifty bucks or less. Italian wool

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Speaker 1: is this really as nice as it looks? Well, when

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Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, oh, this is real quality.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to end up making sure I

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Speaker 1: that code.

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Speaker 2: So joining me now is Jeff Clements.

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Speaker 1: He's co founder and president of an organization called American

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Speaker 1: Promise Best Way. They describe themselves a cross partisan organization

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Speaker 1: that's advocate advocating a constitutional amendment to limit the influence

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Speaker 1: of money and politics.

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Speaker 2: As many of you guys know, I think we are.

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Speaker 1: We are if you look at our history as a country,

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Speaker 1: we're at one of those moments where the appetite for

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Speaker 1: adding a couple of constitutional amendments should be pretty big.

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Speaker 1: Anytime we've had a consequential era of ten or more

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Speaker 1: years like the one we're sort of at the tail

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Speaker 1: end of here with the Trump era, just like after

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Speaker 1: FDR we added the twenty second Amendment, during the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the Industrial Revolution and the controversies in and around that,

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Speaker 1: and the teens. In the twenties, we added direct election

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Speaker 1: as senators, the income tax prohibition, both positive and negative.

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Speaker 1: So I think we're in one of those moments.

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Speaker 2: And I believe Jeff Clements thinks we're in one of

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Speaker 2: those moments. Of course, the question is what.

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Speaker 1: We'll get priority if we are going to start adding

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Speaker 1: constitutional amendments. He's advocating campaign finance. He's alone there. What

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Speaker 1: else would be on that docket. We will dabble in that,

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Speaker 1: as you know, I've been dabbling in that on this

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Speaker 1: feed for some time.

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Speaker 2: But Jeff, welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thank you, Chuck. Good to be here.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with it's I know why.

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Speaker 1: You know, look, it's pretty clear the courts have unless

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Speaker 1: you want to wait forty years to alter the ideological

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Speaker 1: makeup of the courts.

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Speaker 2: And it's not even ideological makeup, the.

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Speaker 1: Sort of the this belief that corporations are people too.

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Speaker 1: If that is the case and money is speech, well,

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Speaker 1: then the only way to limit it.

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Speaker 2: Is to add a constitutional amendment. Is that the conclusion

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Speaker 2: you've come.

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Speaker 3: To absolutely, Chuck, and I come to it after you know,

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Speaker 3: three decades nearly in practicing law, and I believe that

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Speaker 3: the courts were where these kind of issues got worked out.

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Speaker 3: Over the course of my legal career, the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: has taken dozens and dozens of cases involving campaign finance laws,

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Speaker 3: basically making the system we have now with a handful

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Speaker 3: of judges and lawyers in Washington, d c. No American

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Speaker 3: asked for twenty billion dollar elections, you know, six hundred

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Speaker 3: million dollars Senate raises, foreign money coming in, all the

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Speaker 3: things you've talked about on this on this on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: So it is a court created crisis, and it is

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Speaker 3: not a constitutional crisis because there's something wrong with the concert.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's an interesting way of putting it.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's I want to dig into that for a

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Speaker 1: couple of minutes, because essentially, I see where you're going.

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Speaker 1: Just about everything we don't like about the current way

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Speaker 1: campaigns are financed was due to a loophole created by

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Speaker 1: illegal ruling in response to a challenge to a congressional

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Speaker 1: law that was passed whose purpose was to actually try

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Speaker 1: to limit the influence of money in politics.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you know a a lot of The most

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Speaker 3: recent famous case, of course, is Citizens United versus Federal

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Speaker 3: Election Commission. But the first time the court ventured into

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Speaker 3: this sort of experiment and what would happen if justices

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Speaker 3: decided our campaign finance policy instead of the American people

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Speaker 3: was in nineteen seventy six with a case called Buckley

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Speaker 3: versus Valais.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to ask about it. It's Buckley Valeo right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: For there was Citizen United, there was Buckley Valeo.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. In nineteen seventy six was our bi centennial that

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Speaker 3: we'd had the first Amendment for nearly two centuries. We'd

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Speaker 3: had any corruption laws for well over a century by

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Speaker 3: that point, limiting money in politics. Not once in two

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Speaker 3: hundred years had the First Amendment been interpreted by the

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Speaker 3: Court to mean that the American people were stripped of

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Speaker 3: the ability to have limits on the power of wealth

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Speaker 3: to influence election outcomes. The Court made up this rule

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Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy six by saying that spending money is

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Speaker 3: free speech. It sure has something to do with free

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Speaker 3: speech First Amendment, but the Court simply said, no, it

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Speaker 3: is free speech. And then they started on a fifty

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Speaker 3: year experiment. And because they're not that good at politics,

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Speaker 3: nor should they be, the justices they increasingly created new

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Speaker 3: problems for themselves and then had to make up a

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Speaker 3: rule for that. So what we're doing at American Promise

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Speaker 3: is saying enough is enough. This has failed. Let's bring

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Speaker 3: it back to the people with a constitutional amendment that says, Justices,

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Speaker 3: this is not your job. It's the job of Congress

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Speaker 3: and the state legislatures to make the rules for how

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Speaker 3: money influences our elections.

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Speaker 1: You know, what would the you know, McCain fine gold

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Speaker 1: to me is turns out to be the one of

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Speaker 1: the worst pieces of legislation that Congress passed. What could

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Speaker 1: it have been good legislation had you had an interpretation

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Speaker 1: of money and politics differently like would that have under

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Speaker 1: in a world where money isn't speech. Is McCain fine

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Speaker 1: gold good legislation?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, at American Promise, honestly, we're sort of

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Speaker 3: agnostic about specific policy because we're looking at the long term,

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Speaker 3: and America needs to look at the long term. We've

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Speaker 3: got AI coming, we've got global digitalized currencies, we've got

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Speaker 3: all kinds of problems with trying to maintain control of

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Speaker 3: our political experiment here. McCain fine gold was a law

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Speaker 3: around two thousand and two three period when Congress was

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Speaker 3: in some ways trying to deal with the handcuffs that

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court had put on them. So money, as

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Speaker 3: you've said before, Chuck, we'll find a way in politics.

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Speaker 3: That does not mean just like and I.

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Speaker 1: Always compared to the Michael Crichton's character in the original

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Speaker 1: Jurassic Park, where the Jeff Goldblum character says it in

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Speaker 1: the movie, but it's also in the book where the

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Speaker 1: old man claims he's going to keep the dinosaurs from procreating,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, life finds a way.

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Speaker 2: Well, in politics, money finds a way. Yeah, no matter what.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, But that doesn't mean that the American people just

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Speaker 3: say Okay, I guess money decides things. I think you know,

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Speaker 3: murder and mayhem find a way too in the human condition.

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Speaker 3: But we have law and we have real clarity about

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Speaker 3: who decides, and in America it's the American people who

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Speaker 3: decide ultimately. And so in the past we have had

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Speaker 3: yes money. I'm from Boston. You know. Mayor Curley got

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Speaker 3: re elected from his jail cell. So I get this.

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Speaker 3: I'm not naive about this. But the American people have

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Speaker 3: always had the ability and acted on it to enact

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Speaker 3: new rules for new situations. So corporations became powerful in

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Speaker 3: the Gilded Age, as you mentioned, and we had any

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Speaker 3: corruption laws which limited corporate money coming in. Teddy Roosevelt

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Speaker 3: pushed it. The unions became powerful spenders, and by nineteen

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Speaker 3: forty eight we had taft haartly. So the laws that

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Speaker 3: the Buckley Court in nineteen seventy struck down followed the

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Speaker 3: catastrophic in many ways money and politics scandal of the

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Speaker 3: Nixon White House, leading to the resignation of a president.

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Speaker 3: So this is not about the final one answer that

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Speaker 3: will fix everything. It's about who decides what is needed

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Speaker 3: in order to address the problems that inevitably occur with

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Speaker 3: money and corruption and the political system. So McCain Feinegeld

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Speaker 3: was an attempt to solve a new problem, which is, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we've got soft money coming in. It's going around the

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Speaker 3: limits that the candidates are supposed to be able to

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Speaker 3: be limited to in terms of taking money and some

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Speaker 3: other problems like that. But they were the Congress was

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Speaker 3: constrained by the courts at that point forty year invention

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Speaker 3: of all these rules. Independent expenditures can't possibly corrupt, therefore

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Speaker 3: they can't be limited, but giving it to the parties

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Speaker 3: or the candidates could corrupt, so those are going to

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Speaker 3: be limited. So the states and Congress have been put

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Speaker 3: in this straight jacket by the courts rules that don't

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Speaker 3: really make sense, and they start they don't protect free

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Speaker 3: speech of most Americans, and so you end up with

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Speaker 3: messy and often bad legislation. That's why we need the

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Speaker 3: constitutional reset.

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Speaker 1: Which of course is why if you're wondering why political

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Speaker 1: parties have no ability to purge itself of bad candidates,

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Speaker 1: it's because they've lost the ability to fund campaigns. They've

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Speaker 1: lost the ability to you know, in some ways, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is where McCain Feingeld was a bad law with

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Speaker 1: good intentions that ended up only making polarization worse and

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Speaker 1: making it even harder for the parties to have any control.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about what's the wording of a constant?

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Speaker 1: You know, the hallmark of the Roberts Court for the

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Speaker 1: most part, on many issues, it's usually Roberts comes down to, hey, Congress,

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Speaker 1: do your job. But in this case, Congress tried to

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Speaker 1: do jobs and the Court said no. A lot of times,

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Speaker 1: this is a congressional failure. You know, whether it comes

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Speaker 1: to you could argue it's a congressional failure when it

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Speaker 1: comes to some of these issues, specificity about independent agencies

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Speaker 1: and things like that. This is not a congressional issue.

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Speaker 1: This is truly an invention of the judiciary, sort of

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Speaker 1: creation of precedence that suddenly become So so, what's the

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Speaker 1: wording of the amendment that would take this power away

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Speaker 1: from the judiciary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so the flat out the wording fits on a napkin.

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Speaker 3: This is not complicated most constitutional amendments.

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Speaker 1: Better if it's in fact, that's three graphs. Do you

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Speaker 1: need it down to two?

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Speaker 3: I'm happy we could And this doesn't have to be

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Speaker 3: the final language. So what this amendment does though that

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Speaker 3: we call it the for our Freedom Amendment. You know,

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Speaker 3: the first section just reminds the court, frankly, in all

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Speaker 3: of us that we the people have sovereign interest in

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Speaker 3: free speech and federalism and the equal rights of every

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Speaker 3: voter and anty corruption and all the things that a

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Speaker 3: lot of those the Court took off off the First

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Speaker 3: Amendment balance. So the Court says, and they and let's

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Speaker 3: be cleared, McCain Fengel didn't create the super PACs and

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Speaker 3: everything else that was the Supreme Court by saying that

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Speaker 3: independent expenditures never corrupt and making up these different kinds

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Speaker 3: of rules. And so the Court did that because the

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Speaker 3: Court decided it was its job to decide free speech

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Speaker 3: questions around money and politics with only one question quid

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Speaker 3: pro quo corruption or the appearance thereof, as they say,

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Speaker 3: and that's basically Latin for bribery practically. You know, I'll

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Speaker 3: give you this if you give me that. Well, the

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Speaker 3: American people and the founders, frankly long understood that there's

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Speaker 3: a much wider constitutional balance to protecting the equal rights

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Speaker 3: and freedom of Americans and self government in a republic

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Speaker 3: and there's things like federalism. There's things like the equal

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Speaker 3: rights of a citizen. It doesn't mean you have equal

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Speaker 3: outcomes economically, but in the political sphere, we're all equal citizens.

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Speaker 3: So there's things like that. Section one makes that clear,

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Speaker 3: and then Section two moves that Who decides question? Who

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Speaker 3: decides these rules? It's the legislatures in Congress because they're

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Speaker 3: accountable to the people. The judges aren't. So we the

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Speaker 3: people will decide do we want limits, do we not

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Speaker 3: want limits, do we want super PACs? Do we not

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Speaker 3: want super PACs? Those will be decisions, and federal elections

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Speaker 3: for Congress, in state elections for the states, just like

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Speaker 3: it's always been until the Court intervened. And then Section

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Speaker 3: three pretty interesting, it distinguished. It says Congress and the

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Speaker 3: States may distinguish between corporations and entered other artificial entities.

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Speaker 3: It uses the word artificial entities because.

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Speaker 2: We've got to be thank for super pac.

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Speaker 3: Well it could be or what about artificial intelligence. The

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Speaker 3: Court's approach to free speech essentially is if it can

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Speaker 3: spend money and broadcast noise into the political system, it

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Speaker 3: has a free speech right. And I use it intentionally

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Speaker 3: because the Court does not distinguish between human beings or

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Speaker 3: any other entity. So now you have bots and AI

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Speaker 3: and who knows what in ten years, twenty years, fifty

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Speaker 3: years that we have to be thinking about. So this

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Speaker 3: doesn't solve the problem, and it simply says we're allowed

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Speaker 3: to solve that problem.

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Speaker 1: So here's the question that I have of why the

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Speaker 1: First Amendment itself couldn't be used as an interpretation of

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Speaker 1: it without needing this and it would go as follows.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't go to law school.

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Speaker 1: I just play when I play a lawyer on a podcast.

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Speaker 1: So excuse please mock away. But I'm guaranteed free speech.

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Speaker 1: I'm not guaranteed amplification of speech. And it seems as

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Speaker 1: if the courts have decided if you deny the ability

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Speaker 1: to amplify.

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Speaker 2: Speech, you have violated free speech.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I'm saying the words amplification because I

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Speaker 1: also wonder if this is a way to crack down

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Speaker 1: on to allow for more social media regulation in addition

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Speaker 1: to campaign finance regulation. You know, obviously, look I consider myself,

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Speaker 1: you know, any if we can do this without a

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Speaker 1: constitutional amendment, the better. Is there a First Amendment argument

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Speaker 1: against amplification? It's sort of like a corporation's ability to

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Speaker 1: amplify its access to free speech overwhelms mine.

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Speaker 2: Is that the intent of the founders?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that it is not the intent of the

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Speaker 3: founders that the corporations and you know, the wealthiest among

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Speaker 3: us should drown out everybody else's that's antithetical to the

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Speaker 3: First Amendment. And I want to mock your interpretation, Chuck.

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Speaker 3: It's right on in my view. I agree with it.

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Speaker 3: I think most Americans agree with it. It's what the

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Speaker 3: dissenters and these many many Supreme Court cases would have said.

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Speaker 3: So this isn't a question about whether there's anything wrong

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Speaker 3: with the First Amendment. There's nothing wrong with the First Amendment.

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Speaker 3: We are a free speech organization where free speech nation.

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Speaker 3: We want free speech. What we have right now in

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Speaker 3: the political system with money isn't free speech. For exactly

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Speaker 3: the reasons you're saying. The Court ma need a mistake

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Speaker 3: in how it interprets the First Amendment and is laid

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Speaker 3: down this mandate, which basically means amplification until nobody can

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Speaker 3: hear anyone anymore except those with the biggest this ability

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Speaker 3: to spend. And so what our amendment does is not

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Speaker 3: replace the First Amendment. It strengthens the First Amendment, it

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Speaker 3: makes it much more like the one you're describing. I

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Speaker 3: can just tell you one story, and I've been all

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Speaker 3: over the country with this amendment. There's a wonderful guy

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Speaker 3: in Maine. David Trahan runs the Sportsman's Alliance of Maine.

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Speaker 3: He's on our advisory council as well. After Susan collins

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Speaker 3: Is two hundred million dollars Senate race in twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: now looks kind of quaint. They're talking about a six

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Speaker 3: hundred million dollar race in twenty twenty six there, but

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Speaker 3: all of the super Pac money was pouring in from

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Speaker 3: outside the state. And these are people who spenders have

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Speaker 3: no idea where Maine is on a map, probably let

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Speaker 3: alone caring about what the people of main things. It

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Speaker 3: was a battle for control of the US Senate. And

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Speaker 3: so this guy is pretty politically savvy and a free

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Speaker 3: speech absolutist as well as a Second Amendment advocate. Is

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Speaker 3: saying he said, Jeff, we can't be heard and we

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Speaker 3: can't hear each other with all this money. And I

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Speaker 3: thought that was such an interesting way to think about

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Speaker 3: the First Amendment issue in this case. In this situation,

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Speaker 3: which is we want free speech, and actually we want

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Speaker 3: to hear what our fellow citizens think as well, and

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Speaker 3: engage about it and argue with each other and then

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Speaker 3: get out and vote. That's what a republican self government

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Speaker 3: looks like. It does not look like this. So your

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Speaker 3: first amendment, David Tryan's first amendment, I think it's the

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Speaker 3: American first Amendment, and that's the first amendment we'll get

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Speaker 3: with our constitutional amendment to get us there.

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Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

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Speaker 1: a growing family. You brought up Maine, and I'm glad

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Speaker 1: because Larry Lessek, who I know you're very familiar with,

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Speaker 1: and no, and I think you said, he's on your board,

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Speaker 1: so you're familiar. He believes he has found a way

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Speaker 1: to essentially use originalism, which is sort of the current

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Speaker 1: makeup of the Conservative Court. Arguably three of the nine

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Speaker 1: are more originalists. I think the other three Conservatives are

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Speaker 1: probably a little more nuanced than being textualists or originalists,

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Speaker 1: but that's probably open to interpretation. But that there's actually

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Speaker 1: an originalist argument that would overturn Citizens United.

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Speaker 2: Do you buy it?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I buy the argument. But if I thought that

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Speaker 3: the right argument would win the court, I think we

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Speaker 3: want to need this amendment. As you say, we would

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Speaker 3: get a reinterpretation of the First Amendment as to be

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Speaker 3: more aligned with what it was supposed to mean, and

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Speaker 3: that's originalism. I mean, can you imagine those who ratified

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Speaker 3: the amendment. Remember, the First Amendment was an amendment too

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Speaker 3: happens to be our first one. It wasn't didn't come

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Speaker 3: out of Philadelphia's convention. It came because the American people

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Speaker 3: at the time demanded the Bill of Rights and passed

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Speaker 3: and ratified amendments in this way, and the first Amendment

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Speaker 3: protecting free speech. Can you imagine in that ratification the

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Speaker 3: people who just won the revolution saying, yeah, this is

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Speaker 3: intended to protect the right of corporations to spend unlimited

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Speaker 3: money and the wealthiest you know, among us they even

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Speaker 3: have billionaires. Then to spend unlimited money, they would have

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Speaker 3: been preposterous. And originalism in constitutional interpretation means what did

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Speaker 3: the words actually mean? What did the people who put

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Speaker 3: those words and voted on those words and lived by

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Speaker 3: those words intend and mean by it? And so I

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Speaker 3: think the originalism argument is powerful. We make the same

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Speaker 3: case at American Promise. In many ways our amendment is

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Speaker 3: an originalist interpretation of the First Amendment. And so you know,

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Speaker 3: I welcome and applaud Very few people have worked as

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Speaker 3: long in his hard in this effort around responding to

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Speaker 3: the money in politics crisis as Larry Lessig, and I

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Speaker 3: applaud him for it. And I know he is also

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Speaker 3: a fan of the constitutional amendment approach. There's no reason

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Speaker 3: you don't try all the different leavers. So Professor Lesg's

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Speaker 3: theory is is, Look, the Court didn't act invent the

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Speaker 3: super pac literally, it was the District Court. There was

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Speaker 3: the DC Court of Appeals. It never went to the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court in a case called speech now, and they said, well,

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Speaker 3: the court, the Supreme Court tells us that independent expenditures

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Speaker 3: can't corrupt, therefore there's no reason to have a limit

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Speaker 3: on packs. Because remember Congress and the American people actually

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Speaker 3: said we want a five thousand dollars limit on packs.

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Speaker 3: That used to be the law, and the law fell

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Speaker 3: down in that case because the District Court of DC

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Speaker 3: Court of Appeals said that that doesn't make sense after

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Speaker 3: citizens united because they say independent expenditures can't corrupt, and

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Speaker 3: then we therefore get the super pack when one person

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Speaker 3: can put three hundred million dollars into it or one

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Speaker 3: hundred million dollars into it would have been wildly illegal

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Speaker 3: before this case. So Larry's argument as, hey, the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court didn't say that, and actually independent contributions to independent

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Speaker 3: expenditures are super packs can corrupt. You can corrupt and

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Speaker 3: influence the outcome of legislation by telling the person and

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Speaker 3: heads the committee or whoever is needed to say, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'll put some money in the superpack and you get

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Speaker 3: the legislation. So of course it can corrupt. I think

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Speaker 3: most Americans would agree with that, like, yeah, super PACs,

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Speaker 3: of course they're corrupting. There's all kinds of Shenanigans going

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Speaker 3: on with them. So that's the theory, and Larry's the

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Speaker 3: main people of Maine agreed and adopted a low saying

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Speaker 3: contributions to super PACs are limited to five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: And it's been struck down by held up by the court,

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Speaker 3: federal courts. It's now Larry hopes to go to the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court and have the Supreme Court say, you know what,

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Speaker 3: you're right, we never said that, and you can limit packs.

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Speaker 3: So I think the theories right. I wish the court

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Speaker 3: would buy it. I'm less skeptical. I'm more skeptical than

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Speaker 3: Larry is that they will given that.

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Speaker 1: Like I hear you, except where I think Larry's case

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Speaker 1: is strong, It's like, well, one of two things are

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Speaker 1: going to happen. Either they strike down all limits for individuals,

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Speaker 1: because how is it that you can have a situation

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Speaker 1: where you can have unlimited contributions to an independent expenditure,

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Speaker 1: but you can limit contributions directly to a campaign, right,

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Speaker 1: It's sort of it's a distinction without much of a

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Speaker 1: difference anymore. So I wonder if that is if actually

436
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: it's one of two outcomes. Either he's right and they say,

437
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: you're right if you can limit in contributions of individuals

438
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: to campaigns and you can limit contributions to packs, or

439
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 1: it goes the other way and there are no more limits.

440
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's that's that's a fair scenario assessment.

441
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 3: I think you know, the other case that was argued

442
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 3: last week in the Supreme Court NRSC versus FEC has

443
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 3: a similar kind of situation where there's a limit on

444
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: the party's ability to spend in coordination with candidates that

445
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 3: the court upheld twenty years ago but now doesn't see.

446
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 3: The argument is it doesn't make sense given that you

447
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 3: can put anything you want and spend anything you want

448
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 3: in other vehicles. So but the problem, I have two problems,

449
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 3: not problems, that's the wrong word. I have two reasons

450
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: why we need this constitutional amendment more than ever, even

451
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 3: as I'm rooting for Professor Lessig's success. One is that

452
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: even if the Court does begin to see that there's

453
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 3: some weird contradictions in the system that they have built

454
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: around money in politics, which believe me, it has been

455
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: messed up for a long time, and that hasn't seemed

456
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 3: to bother them. But maybe this time they take this

457
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 3: and say, Okay, we're going to allow some limits on

458
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 3: contribution to certain kinds of super PACs that might create corruption.

459
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 3: There's still all kinds of other avenues that should not

460
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 3: be up to the Court to decide how to deal

461
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: with it, should be up to the legislatures. But the

462
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: most important reason, Chuck, I'd say more than ever, is

463
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: that it's not so much the specific policies and we

464
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 3: can get in the weeds around all these different vehicles

465
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 3: and the different systems. Fundamentally, the constitutional crisis, in my view,

466
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 3: is not specific cases or specific policies. It's the fundamental

467
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: question of who decides. And another five to four or

468
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 3: even six' three decision out of The Supreme, court no

469
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 3: matter which way it comes, out does not solve that

470
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 3: problem we have had for half a. Century The american

471
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: people disabled from just about what any democracy in the

472
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 3: world does what we used to do before The court gone,

473
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: involved which is we make the rules around, this not

474
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: the justices In. Washington so that's what we got to.

475
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: Fix, well this goes to you, Know i'm old enough

476
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: to remember when my friends and the right were complaining

477
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: that the judiciary was legislating in campaign finance laws. Ninety,

478
00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: basically most of the law that governs campaigns has been judicially.

479
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: Written absolutely it.

480
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: Is it has been.

481
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: Over you, know overturning a state, legislature overturning a congressional,

482
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: law none of, them, right it has not BEEN i

483
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 1: can't think of a legislature that has passed a law

484
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: that the court you know that that you, KNOW i

485
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: can't think of a legislature that, said, yeah we should

486
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: have unlimited this and we should have it, unlimited LIKE i.

487
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: Can't i'm trying to find the legislative law that has done,

488
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: that can You.

489
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah and you know it's you're absolutely, right it's constant

490
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: legislation by. Judges it's all of these are policy questions

491
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: you can we could agree or disagree or argue.

492
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: About but they have made the. Decision but these are

493
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: not the.

494
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: Questions is not a legislative, intent, right because it has

495
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: not been legislative, intent.

496
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 3: Not at, all exactly. Right and so you know that's

497
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: the fundamental reason we need this constitutional amendment because it's getting.

498
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 3: URGENT i, mean The american people now call money in

499
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: politics the top, issue the top threat to our Democracy Pew.

500
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 3: Research after the twenty billion dollar election in twenty twenty

501
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 3: four did their usual survey of The american people's, Priorities

502
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: reducing money in politics was number, one ahead of, immigration

503
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,479
Speaker 3: ahead of, crime and, so and there's a good reason

504
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: for it because people see it now where they. Live

505
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 3: it's the corruption is coming, home and we've got to fix.

506
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: This SO i accept the, premise and Then i'm going

507
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: to challenge you on, it because you, know there's always

508
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: the correct answer the public, gives and then there's how

509
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: they actually vote right during, elections and you AND i

510
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: both know the following, truism which is there's not a

511
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: single person that is won on.

512
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: This issue where they've made it the.

513
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: Issue and that is why, POLITICIANS i, think shy away

514
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: from making it a centerpiece of their, campaign right because

515
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: ultimately you're, like, yeah, OKAY i agree with, that but

516
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: what are you doing about the price of?

517
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 2: Groceries? Right like it has been hard to make this.

518
00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: Issue you can get voters to engage with it if

519
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: they see the corruption and it's a corruption directly impacting

520
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: said candidate and said. Campaign but BECAUSE i, LOOK i

521
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: always say there's you, know there's eighty percent issues where

522
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: there's only where half of those folks it. Isn't it

523
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: isn't the single voting issue that they will go to

524
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: the polls to vote. On but they're an eighty percent, agreement, right,

525
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: gun some sort of control over you, know some sort

526
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: of legislative additional hurdles to purchase guns as falls into that,

527
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: category which is there's general, agreement but it's not the

528
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: people that are the most passionate about it actually vote

529
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: the other. Way why do you think it's been so

530
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: hard to make it a voting.

531
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: ISSUE i.

532
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: UNDERSTAND i see the polling, too but there's you AND

533
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: i both know there's type certain issues that poll well

534
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: that don't get you to the, vote actually get people

535
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: to the ballot.

536
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 3: Box, YEAH i think we have to unpack that a, Bit,

537
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 3: chuck because you, know The american people have never been

538
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: offered the voice we Had american promise are, offering which,

539
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 3: is do you want the power back to actually make

540
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: the rules around money and, politics or do you want

541
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: to leave it the same way it is now leave

542
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: it to the, Judges BECAUSE i think we got to

543
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: give The american people more. Credit they know that for

544
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: fifty years we've lived with judge made rules that have

545
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: just moved power into the hands of the wealthiest and

546
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: the most global corporate, interests and everybody knows. THAT i

547
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: think that's so when they, say, Hey i'm going to

548
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: run on passing, McCain finegeld vote for, me the voter isn't.

549
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 3: Stupid they know that the elected official is not actually

550
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 3: going to be able to do very much because The

551
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: Supreme court has said has basically invented this right to

552
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: spend onlimited, money no matter what you might think about.

553
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 3: It and SO i think that the passion is already.

554
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: There you've said it. YOURSELF i thought you're an alice

555
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: of the twenty twelve election Of Barack. Obama chuck was

556
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 3: really astute when you said that was misread as somehow

557
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 3: this grand demographic coalition rather than a populist. Election he

558
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: went After Mitt, romney AND i thought that was right.

559
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: On and why Did Bernie sanders go head to head

560
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: an unknown at the, Time Bernie sanders go head to

561
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: head With Hillary? Clinton why Is Donald? Trump they had

562
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: taken over The Republican party and He's president of The United.

563
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: States the answer to all of those, QUESTIONS i think

564
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: is the same which The american people are, smart they get,

565
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: it is that this system is completely corrupted and the

566
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: normal politics isn't going to fix, it and so they're

567
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: looking for. Answers and SO i, think as usual In,

568
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 3: america that comes down to a constitutional. Question and SO

569
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 3: i think there's passion for the constitutional question in a

570
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: way that you are not going to render up a

571
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: voting passion around you, know should the limit be five

572
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 3: thousand dollars to ten thousand dollars or disclosure versus public,

573
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: Finance and that's not what this is. About we face

574
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: a fundamental constitutional.

575
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: Question, well let's talk about this issue OF i, MEAN

576
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: i feel like we're hitting there's a few different. Issues

577
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: people that are passionate about certain issues THAT i feel

578
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: like are where we basically the only answer is a constitutional.

579
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: AMENDMENT i think IT'S i think campaign finance is one of.

580
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: THEM i think those my friends that worry about the.

581
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: DEBT i think the balanced budget amendment is another. ONE

582
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: i think age, limits, Right if you have age minimums

583
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: in the, constitution it means there's only one way you

584
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: can create age. Limits you're going to need a constitutional,

585
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: amendment right if you care about the electoral. College, NOW

586
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: i think there are ways around, that which include expanding

587
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: the Physical house Of, representatives which would actually fix the

588
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: electoral college, issues and you wouldn't need a constitution. One

589
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: there are a few places where you wouldn't need. One

590
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: but we're at a moment WHERE i think there's enough.

591
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: Issues is it worth working in concert with some of

592
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: these other affinity groups who are fighting for this sort

593
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: of what the infrastructure reforms for our democracy or our constitutional?

594
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: Republic?

595
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: Right you, know and if you look at our, history

596
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: we basically have had three periods where we've actually fixed

597
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: up our, house our constitutional, house right at the, beginning

598
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: right during and after The Civil, war and essentially during

599
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: and after The Gilded. Age and then you could say

600
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: the twenty Second, amendment in the twenty Fifth amendment also

601
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: that was, about you, know sort of REACTION fdr And

602
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: kennedy and sort of in what.

603
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: Incapacitation but is this a moment that is?

604
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: Similar is this a period is it worth working with

605
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: others to try to force a larger conversation about amending

606
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: the constitution or is your time better spent just galvanizing on.

607
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: The single issue of campaign.

608
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 3: Finance, WELL i think the conversations well. Underway The american

609
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 3: people are talking about constitutional change all the. Time now

610
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: you left term limits, Off i'd put.

611
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: That it's another, one, yes where you probably it's only

612
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: going to Take you're going to need a constitutional amendment for.

613
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 2: You. Yeah.

614
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: Yeah The Supreme court is also ruled we're not allowed

615
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: to have term, Limits SO i THINK i think that

616
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: also there's a viable and energetic support for that kind

617
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 3: of constitutional. Amendment so you're. ABSOLUTELY i couldn't agree more

618
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 3: that we are in a moment In american history where

619
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: we will see fundamental change and if we if we

620
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: focus and make that constitutional change and other kinds of,

621
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,479
Speaker 3: reform it'll be a very positive. Thing but at the same,

622
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 3: time if we, don't there's. Dangers AND i think that's

623
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: what you saw if you look at all those periods you,

624
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: mentioned and i'd ad you, know we did four, amendments

625
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 3: four constitutional amendments between nineteen sixty one and nineteen seventy,

626
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 3: one lowering the voting, AGE dc got some, representation the poll.

627
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 3: Tax those are pretty big. Deals and if you look

628
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 3: at all those, periods it was very much like our

629
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 3: own political. Assassinations division the wheels coming off The american,

630
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 3: democracy AND i think people realize that we can't go

631
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 3: on with the status quo constitutional structures we've, had and

632
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: there's fundamental, change AND i think that's what we're going

633
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: to see. Now that doesn't mean, necessarily, though that there's

634
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 3: some grand constitutional. COALITION i think maybe after The Civil,

635
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: war The Civil war, amendments The Republican party at the

636
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 3: time was the grand coalition around constitutional. Amendments we need

637
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 3: to once and for all overturn the Dread scott decision

638
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: and slavery In, america enfranchise All americans regardless of. RACE

639
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 3: i think that was the. Exception the other, ones, THOUGH

640
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 3: i think amendments happen in a dynamic systematictic process where

641
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: there's opportunity because the old way is, crumbling the old

642
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 3: stabilities there, anymore and you can actually put together new

643
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 3: coalitions and new votes to actually get a two thirds

644
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: vote In congress and ratification in three quarters of the,

645
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 3: states which remain very. Different SO i don't think you

646
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: need to march and lockstep and have different arguments that.

647
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: Might you, know it isn't necessarily people will vote for

648
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 3: our amendment who will be against electoral college, reform or

649
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: people will like term limits but not the balanced, budget

650
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 3: or you name. It that's. OKAY i think it's a

651
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: much more dynamic. Process if Every american go for whatever

652
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: it is that you want to, see will be just.

653
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 3: Fine AND i would predict in a decade we'll have

654
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 3: three or four amendments again like previous. Times but if

655
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 3: we have a try to make it with some grand

656
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: coalition coming out Of washington Telling americans what to, do

657
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: it goes. Nowhere we go to the, states we go

658
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: to the, people AND i think that's what smart amendments.

659
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: Do so we have twenty three states already on board

660
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: for Our Freedom amendment At american. Promise that why you get,

661
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 3: ratification that's why you get the vote In, congress because

662
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 3: we've actually shown that states as widely disparate As alaska

663
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 3: And utah and, yeah you Know wyoming And montana Versus,

664
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 3: California New, York. Massachusetts they're all doing, this they're all moving,

665
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: forward and the politics of it are. Changing and so

666
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: whether you're A republican Or democrat and you actually want

667
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: to vote for our, amendment that'll happen with some of

668
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: the other amendments.

669
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: TOO i think what's Your so what's it's, Interesting, look

670
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: the four states you just talked about that Are republican.

671
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: Leaning don't surprise me right.

672
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: There there there's a there's a history In montana of

673
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: sort of skepticism of corporations and corporate. Money that's a

674
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: very little more bipartisan concern about it than you see

675
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: in most States, utah, right it's civic, Mindedness, alaska Even,

676
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: wyoming the small states sort of get. It what's your biggest, Hurdle,

677
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: right you need thirty eight, states you, know it means

678
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: you're going to need you, KNOW i guess in theory

679
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: you could do this without The Deep south red. States

680
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: but make the case to The alabama legislature of why

681
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: they should be for this.

682
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 3: Amendment, OH i think we can win. Anywhere so and you, Know,

683
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 3: ALABAMA i, HOPE i hope we'll come on board. Soon

684
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 3: but you, know we passed The Oklahoma house. Unanimously we

685
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: still got to go through The, senate but the vote

686
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: In oklahoma was unanimous in The. House we've passed The

687
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: senate In. Wyoming so this lead sponsor In, Texas Senator Angela.

688
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: Paxton you don't get to the right of The paxtons In.

689
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 3: Texas and you know she's.

690
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: The least It's Ken paxton soon to be ex wife

691
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: who's the chief sponsor for? You?

692
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 3: There you know this is this is the truth about.

693
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: The, fellows, Right, Yeah.

694
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 3: Yeah the thing about amendments is especially if you do

695
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 3: it in a way that is respectful and actually like

696
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: we're service, minded we serve The american people to get done.

697
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 3: With we want to get. Done everybody wants to get,

698
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 3: done but we want to get it done for different.

699
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: Reasons so we just let people do it for their own.

700
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 3: Reason and you start to put up these these these.

701
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 3: Wins so the question is why Would alabama want to do?

702
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: This not why WOULD i want to Tell alabama to do?

703
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: This In alabama's best?

704
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah so the question for The alabama legislature is

705
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 3: do you want to make the rules For alabama elections

706
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: or do you want them to be made by five

707
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 3: justices In. Washington, right that's fundamentally.

708
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: It's the strongest argument you can, make almost like a

709
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: state's rights.

710
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 2: Argument.

711
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: YEAH i just have a hard time If i'm an

712
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: elected legislature In alabama saying, WELL i don't really want

713
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 3: to make the. RULES i LIKE i like THE i

714
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 3: like the way it, is and that it's coming From.

715
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 3: Washington i've never heard that In. Alabama SO i think

716
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: that they will very much be behind this because, again the,

717
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 3: amendment very, simple is a question of who decides it

718
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 3: puts it back in the hands of the people and our.

719
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 3: Representatives and so we're not Telling, alabama, oh you got

720
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 3: to have this rule or you got to have that.

721
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 3: Rule we're saying To, alabama we Want alabama's to decide

722
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: what the rules. Are and SO i think it's a compelling.

723
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:03,240
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732
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733
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748
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: pushback you've had to deal?

749
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: With, WELL i think there's two forms of, opposition AND

750
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: i respect them both and we take them both. Seriously

751
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 3: one is the intellectual opposition is. LEGIT i, mean The

752
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 3: Supreme court isn't filled with dumb. PEOPLE i mean this.

753
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 2: Theory this is a libertarian, argument, Right, yeah.

754
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 3: The First amendment having something to do with spending the

755
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: money in politics is a serious, argument and there are

756
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: still a fortunately small number of people who agree with.

757
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 3: It but the data on it now after fifty, years

758
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: is not very supportive of that. Theory so the, idea

759
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 3: even if one thought it made, sense now that we

760
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 3: see it in, practice it doesn't really seem very supportive

761
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 3: of free speech principles unless your view of free speech

762
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: is different than what Most americans seem to, think which

763
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 3: is free speech does not mean you get to drown

764
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 3: out every other. Person and so but that argument is still.

765
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 3: There the court sticks with, it many. Others you, know relatively,

766
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 3: speaking it's probably ten percent in the, polling ten to fifteen,

767
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 3: percent and so we respect. That we'd love that debate

768
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: because we win it every, time and because that's not

769
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: where people. Are we've seen the, data we've seen the.

770
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 3: Results but that's constitutional issues always have two. Sides there's

771
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 3: no reason why this one won't. It so that's. Okay

772
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 3: we'll argue that one out and we think we'll win the,

773
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 3: votes and the for Our Freedom amendment will be the new.

774
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 3: Rule the second one is more, serious and that's the

775
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: ones you don't see the, operatives the multi billion dollar

776
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: political industrial complex now that's made a lot of money

777
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: off this. System they're not coming out to debate, Necessarily

778
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 3: they're coming out to just try to stop.

779
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: THIS i this. Eject this is WHAT i fear the.

780
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: Most there is so many wealthy people In washington who

781
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: have made a killing off of super. PACs, yeah and

782
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: they're mere existence and there's an entire ecosystem that is

783
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: now close to twenty years old when you think back

784
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 1: to really it began with the two thousand and four

785
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: you know act was sort of the first one of,

786
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: these and then and it was, like, hey you don't

787
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: even have to do that.

788
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 2: Anymore you can.

789
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: You don't even have to pretend there's a distinction between

790
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: The kerry campaign and your independent. Expenditure you can have

791
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: the candidate themselves can raise money for both. Entities, now,

792
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: right that's essentially what since The united allowed and it's

793
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: now a generational. Industry. Right there are people that have

794
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: whose livelihoods depend on these independent. Expenditures and you're, right

795
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: like that's probably the biggest impediment you. Have are you,

796
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: know people who are afraid of losing out on.

797
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: Cash, YEAH i think that's absolutely. Right when we take it.

798
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 3: Seriously but you know that is the. Fight that is

799
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 3: the question about are we able to overcome that or

800
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 3: is this our? Future and if it's our, future remember

801
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 3: we're only twenty years, in as you, said back to

802
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 3: two thousand and. Four if imagine when it looks like

803
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 3: twenty years from, now fifty years from now is not.

804
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 3: Sustainable and so the question is are we willing to

805
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: fight for what we? Got AND i don't mean fight,

806
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: VIOLENTLY i mean fight with a constitutional battle which will

807
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 3: decide the. Issue and we're not the first ones who

808
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 3: had to do. This imagine you mentioned the progressive income.

809
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 3: Tax imagine the amendment that had to go around saying

810
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 3: we're going to raise, taxes, Right so ours it.

811
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: Was because people had had. IT i mean this is

812
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: where the moment people had had.

813
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 2: It with wealthy.

814
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: People and back then the income text really only applied

815
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: to to a small group of.

816
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 3: People, yeah and there's pretty good analogies, today don't you.

817
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 3: THINK i, LOOK i.

818
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: Think absolutely that sort of should money equal? Power we

819
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: understand money equal. Speech but what you've actually done is

820
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: you've equated those with the most money has the most.

821
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: Power was that actually the founder's?

822
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 3: Intent, yeah, exactly and SO i like our. CHANCES i

823
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 3: don't underestimate the opposition and the and the. Power but

824
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 3: that's what this is is a power, struggle and that's

825
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 3: what that's the that's The american story.

826
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,959
Speaker 1: Is can you assuage my libertarian friends by, saying, hey

827
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: this amendment doesn't prevent a state legislature or even a

828
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 1: FUTURE Us congress from creating a system with minimal.

829
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 3: Limits, yeah that is the argument that gets libertarians on our,

830
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 3: side and we have many which is WHAT i. Thought you, Know,

831
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 3: yeah because.

832
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: The WAY i read, this it doesn't it's not one.

833
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: Sided if a if the state Of wyoming wants to

834
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: be a libertarian wants to be the inin rond experiment

835
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: and essentially take away all regulate regulations and markets and

836
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: on that go to, it this amendment would guarantee that

837
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: within the confines of the state Of.

838
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: Wyoming, Right, yeah.

839
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 3: There's no reason a libertarian would prefer the current system

840
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 3: over our, amendment which has a much more libertarian orientation

841
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 3: than the current. SYSTEM i, think you, know a lot of,

842
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 3: libertarians just like a lot of, businesses just like a

843
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: lot of wealthy, people they, see like you, said money equaling,

844
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 3: power means government gets more and more power because it's

845
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 3: a pay to play system and this sort of you,

846
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: know and it's going up in orders of magnitude in

847
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 3: terms of who can play and who, pays and so

848
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 3: what you don't get is a lot of liberty going.

849
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 3: Around and SO i think real libertarians think about you,

850
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 3: Know John locke and the sort of order ordered, libertarianism which,

851
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 3: is you, know it's again that question of who, decides

852
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: not what the answer. Is and so by moving it

853
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 3: back to the, people you're absolutely. Right if a libertarian legislature, says,

854
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 3: hey our view is you, know no, rules then they

855
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 3: they this doesn't force them, Otherwise.

856
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: And this is a you, know it's interesting reading your Amendment,

857
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: again the idea of paid campaigning was probably not something

858
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: the founders fully thought. About they knew there'd be, factions

859
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: they knew there'd be moneyed interest per, se but it

860
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: was not A i think it's. Fairness but you're you're

861
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: a bit more of a historian on. THIS i, mean

862
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: how front of mind was the idea of of of

863
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: wealth having a contributory factor to the.

864
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 3: Democracy, WELL i think there's two different things. There one

865
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: is you're, right absolutely no ability even to foresee the

866
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: kind of money in, politics specifically around elections and campaigns

867
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 3: that we. Have they. Did they were distrustful of, Parties

868
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: they were distrustful of even acting like you're, running you,

869
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 3: Know George washington famously, saying, Well i'll, serve But i'm

870
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: not going to run around and ask for. Votes you,

871
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 3: know it was a it was a different kind of.

872
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 3: Thinking but they were obsessed with. Corruption they were obsessed

873
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 3: with the power of money to corrupt the political system

874
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 3: in a lot of. Ways the revolution was, around you,

875
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 3: know was again it was a question who, decides not

876
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 3: not whether there should be a tax on, tea but

877
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 3: whether who gets to make.

878
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: The people get to? Decide, Right, Yeah.

879
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 3: And so you know, this a notion that it's going

880
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 3: to be a republic versus an aristocracy is essentially saying

881
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 3: we're going to be a place where wealth won't decide those.

882
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 3: Questions AND i think the the consistency of our constitutional

883
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 3: solution of money in politics with that founding vision of

884
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 3: What american is is really.

885
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: Profound and, LOOK i think one of your other challenges

886
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: and bear unfair is limiting campaign, finance limiting putting limits

887
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 1: on the financing of campaigns is is perceived to help

888
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: the left over the. RIGHT i, CAN i can argue

889
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: it both, ways So i'm NOT i am, not but

890
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: that is to me a perception hurdle you, have, right

891
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: anytime you can have it's, like why is D c

892
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: not a state? Yet and you know why can we

893
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: GET dc And Puerto rico to come in? Together you

894
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: know they because the right has to be convinced that

895
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: they'll Have you know that it isn't automatically going to

896
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: change the balance of, power, right that there is an

897
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: equal opportunity here in having new states added that they

898
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: write D c.

899
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: Alone, right the right.

900
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: Opposes not on on on high minded grounds but on

901
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: simply pure political power.

902
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 2: Grounds and so.

903
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: Anytime you can have an, amendment that is that, it you,

904
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: know benefits that that both that ideologues on both sides

905
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: could make the case helps them better off you. Are

906
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 1: how do you break through this idea that that limiting

907
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: camp putting restrictions on the financing of campaigned only helps the.

908
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: Left, well the facts are the best argument against, that

909
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 3: AND i think increasingly with every election cycle somebody has

910
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 3: been punched in the face by money in. Politics so

911
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 3: each time we have an, election we get more, data

912
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 3: and SO i think that's that's no longer the. Case

913
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 3: SO i think in the early days After Citizens, united

914
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 3: The mitch McConnell kind of Public republican party, thought, hey

915
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 3: we can win with with unlimited money and it'll hurt The.

916
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 3: Democrats so why would we be Against Citizens? United that

917
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 3: that's no longer. TRUE i, Mean republicans have lost The

918
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 3: wisconsin judicial race because of, money one hundred million dollars

919
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 3: coming in for that. ONE i don't.

920
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 2: You want to Stop george sorows? Right is that your

921
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: best line to the.

922
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 3: Right, WELL i don't have. To they'll say it to.

923
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 3: Me they'll tell me, that and it's a true. THING i,

924
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 3: Mean George zories really does spend a lot of money

925
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 3: in in, politics and it comes down to the local,

926
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 3: level which it really affects if you think About republican.

927
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 3: Interests it's, local it's state. Based and now every election

928
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 3: has been nationalized right down to the DA's races and

929
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 3: even school. Committee so that's A republican. Issue but, Look

930
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: democrats have gotten very good at this game, too and

931
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 3: nobody is too confident that they'll be able to prevail

932
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 3: over the long. Haul with one system or. ANOTHER i

933
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 3: was talking to A Texas republican In. Dallas he looked

934
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 3: at our map of, states twenty three states that have

935
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: gotten behind this, amendment and he looks and he, says

936
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 3: you Got california And New. York why would The democrats

937
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: vote for? This because in his, mind it's The democrats

938
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 3: who have the advantage with big. Money and if you're In,

939
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 3: texas you know this Turn texas. Blue outside money coming

940
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 3: in all the. Time their experience is The democrats are

941
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: using the system against, them and so everyone has their own.

942
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,720
Speaker 3: Experience AND i think we're getting to the point now

943
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 3: which which we thought would, happen and why the amendment

944
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 3: is actually going to get done where both sides know

945
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 3: that they actually won't have a sustained advantage in the current,

946
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 3: system and both have an interest in.

947
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: THIS i assume you'd love if a mainstream presidential candidate

948
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: or both got behind. This, obviously if you could get

949
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 1: both dominees behind this in twenty eight you'd get to

950
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: thirty eight states pretty.

951
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 2: Quickly what is that your.

952
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: Hope that you're going to influence the debate, itself or

953
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: how do you hope to galvanize here to get to

954
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: the to get you, know twenty three states is one, thing.

955
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: Thirty eight to?

956
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 1: Another or do you want to do you really Think,

957
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: Congress i'm skeptical you can get it through This.

958
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 3: Congress, well we you, know we look at how other

959
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 3: amendments were. Done you, know it's interesting the founders intentionally

960
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 3: took the president out of the. Deal there's no veto of,

961
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 3: this there's no signing of. This it's the one thing

962
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 3: That congress does where the president has no role and

963
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: the governor have no. Role the legislatures when they, ratify

964
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 3: do the, vote there's no governor. Roles SO i think that's.

965
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 3: Intentional but obviously presidential races are focused a lot of.

966
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: Attention we would welcome both presidential candidates from both parties endorsing.

967
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 3: This but in the, end this isn't a top down

968
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 3: kind of. Thing this Is god have come up from

969
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 3: the people from the. States that's how you get the

970
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 3: vote In. Congress that's why we do the work with

971
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 3: The americans in every. State we don't care who you vote.

972
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 3: For we are on the ground and Supporting americans to

973
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 3: get this. Done and that'll be plenty to get our

974
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: congressional vote and ratification in The, states the presidential politics of,

975
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 3: it you, know it could it could help or could

976
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: hurt if one side supports and the other side, doesn't

977
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 3: then it's you, know we're pushing up against partisan. Perceptions

978
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 3: and so our job is simply to Support americans where

979
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 3: we live in The, states and we'll get we'll get the. Votes,

980
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 3: so you, know we do have a candidate pledge and

981
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 3: we invite all candidates to sign, it and and we

982
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 3: have about half and Half republicans And. Democrats but in

983
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: the you, know the politics of the presidential race in

984
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 3: twenty eight will will do what they. Do and in the,

985
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: meantime there's a lot of work that we all can

986
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 3: do where we. Live and that's get you, know get

987
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 3: behind this, amendment move it forward and ask our elected,

988
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: representatives no matter which party they, are to support. It

989
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: and then it'll be in the presidential candidate's interest to

990
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 3: do so, too because that's where the votes will come.

991
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: From where is the most amount of your efforts to

992
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: galvanize people Go is it on the ground in state legislative?

993
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 2: Races is it more Where how is it that you

994
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 2: feel you guys can be the most.

995
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 3: Effective, Yeah so the biggest THING i would say about, That,

996
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 3: chuck is we Don't we always say we're not going

997
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 3: to end the. Constitution american promise isn't going to do.

998
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 3: It The american people will do. It our job is to.

999
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 3: Serve and so what is the highest, leverage fastest way

1000
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 3: we can Move americans behind this constitutional solution to money in.

1001
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 3: Politics and so a lot of our staff support is

1002
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 3: in the, states supporting people, there and we have replicable

1003
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 3: work through networks like business, networks local, chambers local. Rotaries

1004
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 3: and if we do, that not only are we getting

1005
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 3: the wins and the state, legislatures we're leaving in those

1006
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 3: states after they pass. This it's not like we're parachuting

1007
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,479
Speaker 3: it in and then. Leaving we're leaving behind a well

1008
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 3: informed electorate that is eager to see this, done that's

1009
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 3: carrying it forward with leadership fromstate, legislatures from business, groups

1010
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 3: from civic. Groups so that's where we focus our. Attention

1011
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 3: it's not really about just you, know landing in trying

1012
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 3: to get wins and moving. On it's about support through

1013
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 3: these kind of, networks network. Strategy and, so, yeah we

1014
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: want votes and. Legislatures we've racked up a whole bunch of.

1015
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 3: Them we've won ballot. Initiatives we're seven and zero in

1016
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 3: states ON vallid and this is the most recent And

1017
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 3: maine was eighty six. Percent so we do the work

1018
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 3: that Lets americans be heard on this and then gets

1019
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 3: legislators voting for, it no matter which party they.

1020
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: Are, so you, know a lot of times having you,

1021
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: know there's nothing like a reform smoker to tell you

1022
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:24,439
Speaker 1: not to. Smoke you, know do you have a Living

1023
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: koch brother And George soros jointly supports something like. This

1024
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 1: do you have super wealthy donors that have that have

1025
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: benefited from the system come out and.

1026
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 2: Favored does that help or hurt your? Cause?

1027
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 3: WELL i will, say, first we disclose all our, donors

1028
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 3: SO i encourage you to sign up at The americanpromise

1029
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 3: dot net check out our annual. Report and the REASON

1030
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 3: i say that the beauty of it is you can

1031
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 3: look at all our donors AND i bet you won't

1032
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,479
Speaker 3: know any of. Them it's regular. People and it doesn't

1033
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 3: mean they're all small dollar. Donors there are people wealthy

1034
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 3: people too who are very concerned about this. Interest, yeah

1035
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 3: and yes many of them participate in the current system spending,

1036
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 3: wise but it's not working for, them just like it's

1037
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 3: not working for most. PEOPLE i, remember you, know we're

1038
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 3: talking to somebody who's fairly, wealthy basically telling, us you,

1039
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 3: know ten million dollars doesn't get your phone calls returned.

1040
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 3: Anymore so it's like when they start feeling like they

1041
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 3: have no, voice you know.

1042
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: That, well it's, funny, right the seven figure donor is

1043
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: just another. Donor, yeah major parties, now so it really it's.

1044
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: Funny it's sort of like what used to buy?

1045
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 2: Access does? It? Well you you don't get what you're

1046
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: paid for, anymore, Right like all sorts of.

1047
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: THINGS i remember WHEN i remember when bribing a politician

1048
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: was a, nickel, Right, no, yeah maybe that is maybe

1049
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: that is a way to get some of these folks on.

1050
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 3: Board, yeah but you, know the we have No, cokes

1051
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 3: we have No, soross we have no no famous. Donors

1052
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 3: But i'd encourage all of them to like ask, themselves you,

1053
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 3: know whether you're The cochs or The, soros is this

1054
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 3: really working for you and for the. Country and it

1055
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 3: would be great to see them, say, hey we can

1056
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 3: keep doing, this but let's join together and put an

1057
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 3: end to.

1058
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: It Jeff clements it's, Look I'M i am one of

1059
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: those who believes we are in a moment that, FRANKLY

1060
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: i think we could use from civics, education we could

1061
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: use a moment focusing on the constitution and sort of

1062
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: getting people. THERE i think, inevitably you know in some,

1063
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: day you, know this is never let a crisis go to.

1064
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: Waste this is one of. Those we're in a crisis

1065
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: moment for. Democracy it's an opportunity to do some. Repairs

1066
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: so we'll see if we'll do.

1067
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: It we'll see if we can get.

1068
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 3: Traction absolutely. Well thank, You, chuck really enjoyed talking with you.

1069
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: Today appreciate, It appreciate the, Time, john good luck with.

1070
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 3: It thank you so. Much take.

1071
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: Care there's a reason results matter more than, promises just

1072
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: like there's a Reason morgan And morgan Is america's largest

1073
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: injury law. Firm for the last thirty five, years they've

1074
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: recovered twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million.

1075
00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: Clients it includes cases where insurance companies offered next just

1076
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: hoping to get away with paying as little as. Possible

1077
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: morgan And morgan fought back ended up winning. Millions in,

1078
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: fact In, pennsylvania one client was awarded twenty six million,

1079
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: dollars which was a staggering forty times the amount that

1080
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: the insurance company originally. Offered that original offer six hundred

1081
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars twenty six, million six hundred and

1082
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: fifty thousand. Dollars so with more than one thousand lawyers

1083
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: across the, country they know how to deliver for everyday.

1084
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: People if you're, injured you need a, lawyer you need

1085
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: somebody to get your. Back check out for The people

1086
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:33,959
Speaker 1: dot Com slash podcast or dial pound, Law pound five

1087
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: two nine law on your cell. Phone and remember all

1088
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: law firms are not the, same so check Out morgan And.

1089
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: Morgan their fee is free unless they win