WEBVTT - Part Two: Kissinger 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.800 Hi, everybody. Robert Evans here and my novel After the 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.800 Revolution is available for pre order now from a k 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:08.480 press dot org. Now, if you go to a k 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:10.880 press dot org you can find After the Revolution. Just 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.760 google a k press dot org After the Revolution you'll 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.840 find a list of participating indie bookstores selling my book. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.439 And if you pre order now from either these independent 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.840 bookstores or from a k Press, you'll get a custom 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.440 signed copy of the book, which I think is pretty cool. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.960 You can also pre order it in physical or in 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.960 kindle a form from Amazon or pretty much wherever books 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.600 are sold. So please google a k press after the 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.080 Revolution um or find an indie bookstore in your area 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.159 and pre order it. You'll get assigned a copy and 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:46.600 you'll make me very happy. Welcome back to what is 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.520 either Behind the doll Up or doll Up the Bastards, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.400 a podcast that, no matter what name we choose for 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:57.279 it is about tickling. Absolutely this, finally, is that's how 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.640 you make us feel at home. Thank you. Do you 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.600 think anyone has ever tickled Kissinger? I can't imagine. I 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:05.880 cannot picture it in my head. This is the way 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:12.120 he would laugh. Stop that. I'm going to work my 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:23.479 pants that I just try to imagine him whispering into 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.480 the ears of a sexual partner something about the business 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.560 I'm about. Then I'm going to know it would be 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:40.000 more like I'm going to end this cannot say burned 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.640 corps and that one of us makes it out a lie. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.320 I actually did. While we were taking a break in 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.320 between episodes, I had a moment where I actually did 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:52.720 for the first time in my life, I felt a 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.560 profound sense of solidarity with Henry Kissinger. My cat is 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.640 named Saddam Hussein, and as I was feeding him during 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.800 the break, I realized, like Kissinger did at one point, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.880 he's gotten much bigger. Saddam has gotten much larger than 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.440 I ever thought he would. You know this is I 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:14.600 did not anticipate this. Yeah, well that's because a lot 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:19.120 to love what you just said. Both make the same mistake. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:27.920 Oh so uh, let's uh, let's get get right back down. 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.880 What is for Kissinger memory Lane, and is what for 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.920 everyone else is Nightmare Avenue. Um, because this is the 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.120 story about why Vietnam lasted an extra half decade. Um, 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.320 good time, We're gonna have a fun one here. So. 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.440 One of the many downsides of an intellectual upbringing, like 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.120 the one Henry Kissinger experienced, is that he spent a 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:54.480 lot of time surrounded by people you might call political technologists. Now, 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.720 this is a term I first heard in Ukraine from 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.880 civilians describing Paul Manafort. That's what they called them. Political 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.000 That's yeah, yeah, these like hired guns who come in 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.640 and help anybody who just happens to like have government money, 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.520 like doing literally anything. Right. Um, they're guys like his mentor, 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.480 Professor Elliott, and like Harvard economist Thomas Schnelling, who advised 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.320 powerful elected leaders, and like they all of the way 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.960 in which they think about the mechanisms of government are 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:27.519 very mathematic and inhuman, right, Um, those are the people 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.639 that Kissinger patterns him self off of. Now, Schnelling, who 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:33.760 are Shelling? Who we just Thomas Shelling, who's a Harvard 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.600 economists we just introduced, was one of Kissinger's other mentors, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.320 um and Shelling. At the same time as he's he's 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.800 working at Harvard and mentoring Kissinger is advising the Eisenhower 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.920 administration on moral calculus in the early stages of the 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:51.360 Cold War. Shelling argues that calculus, moral calculus, have you 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.400 never you never talked about that with anybody. He's not 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.880 a com no sorry no, I mean I was terrible 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:03.360 at calculus. I was a world So well, you can't 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.520 be moral and no calculus, which is why you know, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.280 like pole pot, I'm going to eventually set all of 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:13.040 my listeners after people who know math. That's that's the 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.440 right there. How did we get We're not sure, sir, 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:24.120 No idea, no way in calculable. People keep trying to 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:25.680 tell us, and we just kill him. Adam to the 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.039 pile someone at two numbers, but we were unable to 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:34.160 We can't negotiate it. So Shelling is advising the Eisenhower 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.039 administration on moral calculus in the Cold War, and Shelling's 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.400 argument is that whether you were quote deterring the Russians 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.800 or your own children, the proper tactic was to figure 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:50.320 out the right ratio of threat to incentive. Already, Shelling 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.159 might be the quickest I've ever described a person and 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.599 had it be clear like, well that's a bastard. That's 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:01.320 not okay obviously, So since I have no human feelings, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.920 I have to figure out this and children and yeah, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.000 children in the Soviet government only understand one thing, threats. 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.960 Can I have more ice cream dead. Put your hand 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:18.040 in the drawer and find out. Now, I'm gonna tell 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.560 you something, Jimmy, you go for that ice cream. I 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.840 have a loaded thirty eight on the table table. Now 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:24.960 one of the chambers is empty, Jimmy. So if you 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:29.440 get that ice cream, I just want to go to bed. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:34.640 I don't like dessert. Just feel like moral calculus is 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.520 not the way to go with the ice crea. Maybe 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.040 you could just say no if you don't want him 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.800 to have dessert. Any dad can say no. I'm learning. 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.640 So while Henry was teaching at Harvard, and this is 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.680 before he gets me into the last episode of getting 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:52.840 that gig with the Council on Foreign Relations writing about 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.920 nuclear policy. In the period before that, when like Shelling 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.400 is his mentor, Henry learns a lot from him, and 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.599 he walks away from their relation and ship with the 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.240 belief that quote bargaining power comes from the capacity to hurt, 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.160 to cause quote sheer pain and damage. She means its 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.400 fucking Christ where you're just kind of waiting for this 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.280 person to step into the vacuum essentially right like you're 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.360 waiting for someone to be like, you know, there's actually 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.559 a bottom that's under the bottom, like, oh, oh my lord, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.200 it's like this ship Like if that were true, We're 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.320 all watching this situation unfold between Russia and Ukraine where 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.000 you've got like a lot of people with the ability 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.080 to hurt a lot of people on both sides, and 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.560 you know what, it doesn't seem like negotiations are going great. Yeah, 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.560 not really. Maybe that's not a good basis to proceed 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:43.160 from anything. Yeah, I mean, I just I can't believe that. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.680 It's it's the craziest fucking idea. It's not. It's not. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.960 It's not negotiating. You go into negotiations, you're like, I'm 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:53.480 probably not going to get what I want. We're going 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.359 to try and get the best we can. And he's 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.000 just like, how much can I fucking hurt you? And 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.720 you give me if you spend enough time like I 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.600 do around like gun culture people on the right in particular, 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.240 there's these folks who like usually have never done anything 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.160 like in the military themselves, but they read a bunch 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.320 of like books by Navy seals and ship and they'll 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.280 say ship, like you should have a plan to kill 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.000 everyone in every room you walk into, and like their 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.280 frame is that like the world's dangerous. You gotta be ready. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.160 And I think any reasonable person is like, well, you 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.239 are someone who should not have a gun. You should 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.880 not have a gun. You are out of your entire 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:31.480 damn mind. It's a guy who should never be negotiating, 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.720 absolutely not ready to kill someone. Is like, you know what, 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:36.840 don't go into rooms. That's just gonna be your thing. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.720 You know, don't stay in your house. You got a 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.720 one room. You know, I could I could tell your throat, 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.800 I could reach across the table, tell your throat out 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.640 and stab you in the ice with ice picks. I'm 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.520 just we're just talking about what he wants cream her 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:59.120 ice cream. Dan. So, Henry gets his gig at the 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.440 at the sea a far and so he's the thing 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.520 he's he's producing for the Council on Foreign Relations for 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.280 his his buddy the Rockefeller. It's supposed to be like 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:09.640 a report on how the US is it like it 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.240 should use nuclear weapons, different ways in which they could 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.840 approach it. Right. And while he's writing this report, because 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.960 it's it's with this thing takes a very very long 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.120 process getting this out, he also starts working privately on 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.520 a book of his own titled Nuclear Weapons. And foreign policy. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:25.960 And this book is a version of the stuff he 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.640 wants to write, and this thing he's like fighting to get, 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.680 yeah kind of. But also it's it's actually very smart 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.360 what he does, well, it'll take us a second to 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.040 get there. So this book that Kissinger writes, that's his 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.680 like own project, criticizes US threats of full nuclear scale 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.160 nuclear attack in response to Soviet aggression. Nil Ferguson sums 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.360 it up in this way quote with his skill for 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.079 simplifying and expressing complex ideas, Kissinger put the issue starkly. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.400 The dilemma of the nuclear period can therefore be defined 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.520 as follows. The enormity of modern weapons makes the thought 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.640 of ward repugnant, but the refusal to run any risks 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.200 would a'm out to giving Soviet rule as a blank check. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.599 Kissinger's conclusions were not original. The study group at the 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.240 Council was almost unanimate as Senate's desire to find some 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.520 alternative to Eisenhower's stated policy in Many defense intellectuals, most 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.600 notably Bernard Brodie and Basil little Heart, had also written 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.079 on the subject of limited nuclear war. Kissinger's book demonstrated 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:23.000 his talent as a creative synthesizer of their ideas, drawing 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.439 out the implications of their work and arguing that for 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.559 America's Cold War diplomacy to have any real substance, the 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.400 US had to accept the possibility of the limited use 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.640 of nuclear weapons. That Kissinger's own solution of limited nuclear 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.360 war was also highly problematic, was less important to many 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.320 contemporary observers than that it broke free from the strait 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:45.600 jacket of the Eisenhower administration's policy. So, but where does 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.679 he describe, like where you would use it. It's like 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.800 it's like a tactical battlefield book. It's like to win 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.680 battlefield victories to like in Vietnam, he will briefly flirt, 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:56.240 well not even know all that briefly, but he will 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:01.480 consider using nuclear weapons to cut off access between Vietnam 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:07.000 and China, which isn't like as a as a layman, 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:11.439 you can cut off trains in another way, presumably, right, 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.200 I've seen the general with buster kat and you can 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.960 throw some bogs on it. There there are these other 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:25.160 things called bombs, just bombs. Yeah, so it really, I mean, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.520 it is kind of just itchy trigger figure and it 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:29.599 is like if you live in the realm of this 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.160 sort of dark thinking, how are you not going to start, 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.080 you know, thinking of ways that are just even more 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.240 vicious brutal. He's basically saying, they need to think we're 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:46.040 a chained mad dog. And if we let the dog 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.079 off the leash once and he attacks the postman and 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.559 then and then everyone's gonna fucking then you can get 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:55.679 me anymore. Yeah, but then you stop. We've bombed to 0:10:55.760 --> 0:11:00.760 pane already, Like everyone gets already of course, oh my god. Yeah, 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.320 it's not like it's this theoretical weapon that's never been 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.680 used him and it worked pretty well as far as 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.439 making people be like, god, damn, they are out of 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:13.760 their minds. Yeah, the ship. Um. But it's also there's 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.920 a there's a factor here. A part of me wonders 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.480 if he even really believed about this or cared about 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.400 whether or not nukes should be used tactically, and if 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:25.280 it was more a matter of this is a big 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.280 debate of the day, and if I publicly take the 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.760 most contrarian thing intellectuals who don't really care about what works, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.559 but who care about who's thinking creatively, right, Like that's 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:37.360 the thing He's like, Well, it's not about whether or 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.160 not his plan would work. It's about we're getting out 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.760 of this straight jacket. Eisenhower's put us in and it's like, no, 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:47.559 that's not all that matters. Yeah. Um, you know it's 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:52.640 really funny, just ironic about this is that funny places 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.840 like the Heritage Foundation for years have been have been 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:02.240 saying that Putin would use tactical battlefield nukes and that's 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.680 why he's unhinged. That's one of the reasons. You imagine, 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.520 I would say, anyone who would do that, he's crazy. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:16.040 Imagine now, and I'll keep him on as an advisor. Yeah. Yeah, 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:21.000 that that's my feeling on nukes. Um, don't shoot them 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:27.880 at people ever bad. Maybe an Independence Day kind of situation. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.079 I'll be honest. When I watch Independence Day, I think, yeah, 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:31.640 I might shoot some new I might at that point 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.880 try an grow too. Yeah, but you have Randy Quaid 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.880 I do. I do hang out with him a lot. Um. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.720 That's my main plan. Things go wrong, Randy getting the plane. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.920 He lives in my basement. That actually tracks from the 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:55.840 Instagram videos I've been saying. So. Kissinger's book was published 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.160 in nineteen fifty seven, and it almost immediately sold seventeen 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.280 thousand copies, which is a lot for a wonky book 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.760 on nuclear warfare. It is on the New York Times 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:10.559 bestseller list for fourteen weeks. Jesus Christ, Yeah it's not great. Now, 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.079 He's timing is perfect. He puts this book out right 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.920 as the Soviets make two big advances in Hungary, there's 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.800 like a revolution that they kind of crush, and then 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.520 in the Suez where like brings the British and the 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.360 franch like sucking around in the Suez Canal and the 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.520 Soviets are like stop or we'll do something bad, and 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.800 NATO like backs the funk off. Right, So the Soviets 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.319 have like two big kind of foreign policy wins in 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.680 this period, and Americans can't look at this as like, well, 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.120 you know, maybe the fucking NATO shouldn't have been sucking 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.600 around the Suez, and yeah that ship in Hungary's sucked up, 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.360 but like maybe we can't do anything about it. They're like, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:46.320 we should listen to the guy who says, what if 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:51.760 we nuked them? You know? Yeah, that's that's where people go, right, Um, 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.040 they don't. They they're they're Americans. They don't take the 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.640 rational route. Now they hate us for our nuclear freedom. Yeah, 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.240 they listened to the critiest person in the room about this. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.320 There's a lot of things that you could say about 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.679 both what happened in Hungary and the Suez Crisis that 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.000 are not Why don't we use nukes more often? By 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:15.280 God kissing your knows his audience, you know, um Kissinger 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.160 writes this book, and The New York Times in their 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.600 review of it, right, for the first time since President 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.320 Eisenhower took office, officials at the highest government levels are 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.480 just playing interest in the theory of the little or 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.400 limited war. The theory of massive retaliation is re examined. 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.360 I love that those are that those go together, those 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.800 are the options. Yeah, and then it's like the little 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.640 war war is the nuclear war, Like it's the baby 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.880 war for us. Yeah, hit me out, hear me out, 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:46.600 baby nukes, slim tiny nukes. It's it's like if someone's like, look, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.320 we got to decide if one of which of these 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.320 is going to be legal, Sarah nerve gas bombs for 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:55.920 civilians or or chlorine gas bombs for civilians. One type 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.560 of poison gas bomb has to be legal. Like we 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.200 all we have to have access. Everyone has to be 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.960 able to have one kind of poison gas is crazy. 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.800 What if nobody has those? God, that's not you know, 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.920 that's not where things go here. Um. So President Eisenhower 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.560 is given a summary of of Kissinger's book, because you know, 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.040 he's a president. They don't they don't read books. He gets, yeah, 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.320 he gets a cliff notes and he recommends it to 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.280 his Secretary of State John Foster Dullas, who we have 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.400 talked about quite a lot of God, yeah, I mean 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.760 who like if if he's the rational mind, us is 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.160 being like this dude seems a little out of his 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.200 big problem. That's yeah, that's not great because John Foster 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:45.880 Dulas fucking monatic. So the vice president at this point 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:47.720 is a little dude you might have heard of called 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.640 Richard Millhouse Nixon. He gets photographed with a coff copy 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.040 of Henry Kissinger's book, which is not great. I mean 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.840 it's actually great for shats just not writing a screenplay. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.160 This is great. Really, this is like season one of 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.240 The Nixon Show, and you just like see him with 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:09.240 Kissinger's book, right right, yeah, yeah, good television, you know. 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.840 So the book is successful enough that it provokes Rockefeller, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.160 who gotten him the job at the CFR, to rush 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.480 out the report that Nixon had been or that Kissinger 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:22.120 had been making um and yeah, yeah, the report from 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.600 the CFR concludes, the willingness to engage in nuclear war 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.920 when necessary is part of the price of our freedom. Wow, 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.920 I mean the price of our freedom is pretty good price, 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:39.200 isn't it? It's expensive? Man? How can we how can 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.720 we live if we're not dead? Yeah? How can we 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.480 live without nuclear fallout? It's it's and it's amazing that 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.840 it like it all like if it was part of 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.480 his plan or not. Like you said, the timing is 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.480 just pretty remarkable to release this book and then it 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.040 actually shifts the way that they view this To me, yeah, 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:58.960 you know, it's actually he's got a really good point 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.000 in his best selling book of about how nukes are cool. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.119 I am. I am excited for Ben Shapiro's book on 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.840 the same subject to lead to the annihilation of Yeah, 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.280 I'm gonna live underground. So that's a good idea. So 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:19.040 this report is a weird like weirdly popular. Like again, 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.840 this is a report from the Center or the from 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.840 the CFR, from the Council on Foreign Relations, which is 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.200 like not you don't expect that to go viral, right, 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.440 you know read this pamphlet. Have you read this on 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:38.879 this link study by the CFR. I mean, American never 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.879 lets you down when you're like, oh, that won't happen, 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.600 that won't happen, that won't go. It does. Yeah. So 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.960 Rockefeller actually goes on the Today Show to talk about 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.920 this report the CFR, like with Kissingers, I know, it's 0:17:52.400 --> 0:18:00.520 it's amazing Macaroni castrole. So next, so he gives people 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.840 on the Today Show an address where they can write 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.040 for a copy of this report. They get forty requests 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:13.480 the first day and the next Hell's Post Office is overwhelmed. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.040 The media, the US media called this report quote the 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.200 answer to Sputnik, which is like, hey, the Russian sent 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:25.400 in sent an unarmed ball into space to further exploration. 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.600 We should we this book about how everyone should be 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.080 nuking everyone. It's the answer to that. We're thinking that 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.600 this report on nuclear weapons will actually show the Russians 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.800 thout and not go to space. Yeah, that's space. If 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:39.600 you get rid of Russia, they can't go to space. 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.639 Do you understand? Yeah? And it is it's worth noting 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.159 because I think, like in our popular history, the answer 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.200 to Sputnik is the Apollo missions and it's framed beauty, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.359 which you know did eventually happen. But no, the first 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.560 answer to Sputnik was a report about how we should 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:57.240 be nuking each other more often. They put a ball 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.000 in the orbit, So we should we should blow up. 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.280 We should be ready to drop thirteen nuclear warheads on 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.880 Berlin at a second's notice. That's what I showed him. 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.359 So this makes Henry kissing You're famous? Um, he is 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.400 all over the part. This is his? Is this? We've 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.439 become famous like some guy. Some guys watched the Today's 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.160 Show and he buys the book so we can tell 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.840 everybody at the Elk Club that we need to use nukes. 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.520 Someone give this accountant a soccer ball. Some people get 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.000 famous because their dad is one of O. J. Simpson's lawyers. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.080 Some people get famous because they write a book about 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.240 how nuclear warfare is not that bad. You know, it's 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:44.040 just in fame. It's a crapshoot. Absolutely fuck. I mean, 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.520 imagine being an anti nuke person at this point, You're 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.320 just like, wait, what is what is going on? Read? 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.640 Have you read the report? It's so good. We're gonna 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.560 show him if what they should not be going to space. Yeah, 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:57.959 next time they put a satellite up, we're gonna kill 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:00.320 everyone in Paraguay. What we need to there is a 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:07.200 radiated country. So on July fourteenth, ninety eight, Mike Wallace 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.679 gives Henry Kissinger his first big break into the public sphere. 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.920 So it's happening, It really is. It really is just 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.440 fucking disgusting because I look, there's all the time on 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.960 our show where I'm like, it is the same ship. 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:27.040 But again, it's just media using its platform irresponsibly to 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.600 normalize things that are fucking batship. Yeah, it's great, like 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.480 sixty minutes having a whole segment on the Havanna fucking 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.840 sound Come on, Dave, you know that's real. I suffered 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.480 from that for two years. Those crickets. Oh man, I 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.200 I will say, like, the stupidest joke that I laugh 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:51.960 at every time is, yeah, I got Havanna syndrome. Having 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:57.040 another beer never doesn't get a chuckle out of me. 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.399 But we've we've done, We've had sixty it's come on, 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:05.320 six minutes. Did the the Satanic Scare ship? Well, yes, 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.840 they were big gamble and like they just run with 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:13.480 ideas that are crazy there, I mean because for for 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:15.680 people who are at the level Mike Wallace is, the 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.639 definition of journalist is not afflict the comfortable and comfort 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:23.320 the afflicted. It's be a giant ship head, right, a 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:30.920 huge ship head. Oh man. So Mike Wallace introduces Henry Kissinger, 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.359 the guy whose one achievement is a book about how 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.639 nukes are cool. By saying this, in the field of 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.200 foreign policy and military affairs, Dr Kissinger, You're acknowledged to 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.479 be one of the most penetrating minds in the country. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:47.560 He's penetrating. Yes, penetrating like an Atlas missile penetrates the 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:53.040 cloud cover above a city full of women and children. Yeah. Wow. Now, 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:57.080 during the interview, Kissinger expressed that quote a capitalist society, 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.720 or what is more interesting to me, a free society, 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:03.560 is a more revolutionary phenomenon the nineteenth century socialism. I 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:07.240 think we should go on the spiritual offensive. Yeah, the 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:14.480 spiritual spiritual with a nuclear extension with nukes. So he's connecting. 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:21.920 He's connecting nineteenth century socialists, member capitalism, current day capitalism, 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:26.760 and nukes. Those are the options. Yeah, and Mike Wallace 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.720 just empty headed least goes like I really love your property. Yeah, 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.960 just smiles. And behind his eyes as a dial tone. 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.280 Oh my god. So this earns him finally the job 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.240 at Harvard that he'd coveted. This is why they give him. 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:51.680 Shut shut up. It's like whenever simple, I can't, I 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:57.160 cannot get over how fucking evil Harvard is. It's so good. 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.920 It is monstrous from it's the beast. It is a 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:10.919 horrific some of us with their uh anti Harvard action. 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.280 So he gets his Harvard job and he keeps writing. 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:19.600 In nineteen sixty what's he doing at Harvard. He's like 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:23.080 teaching some ship you know, kissing your stuff type classes. Yeah, 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:27.159 talking about Spangler a lot. Yeahs. Nukes are awesome too. 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:31.840 Nukes are awesome. Freedom is requires an absence of morality, 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.040 teaching kids good stuff, you know, teaching kids good things. 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.560 So in nineteen sixty one he publishes a book titled 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.639 The Necessity of Choice, which is his manifesto on how 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.560 the United States should approach foreign policy in the nineteen sixties. 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.720 It is not an optimistic piece of writing. Quote, the 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.360 United States cannot afford another decline like the one which 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:54.280 has characterized the past decade and a half, fifteen years 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.480 of more of a deterioration of our position in the 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:58.760