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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast

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Speaker 1: about things falling apart, and sometimes stuff that's slightly less

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Speaker 1: depressing than that, but not today. Today we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the falling apart sort of thing and our continuing coverage

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Speaker 1: of what we like to call the crumbles. Here today

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Speaker 1: leads us to a little state called New Mexico, and

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Speaker 1: specifically a little city in New Mexico called Albuquerque. If

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Speaker 1: you have been kind of casually skimming the news about

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Speaker 1: the American Southwest, you might be aware that the governor

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Speaker 1: of New Mexico has recently announced a ban on citizens

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Speaker 1: carrying openly or concealed with a license, firearms within the

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Speaker 1: county that contains Albuquerque. The justification for this is a

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Speaker 1: recent surge in gun violence in the state, most of

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Speaker 1: which is centered on Albuquerque. And this is there's a

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Speaker 1: been a pretty over the last specifically the last year,

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Speaker 1: a pretty dramatic increase in the number of shootings from

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one to twenty twenty two. The number of

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Speaker 1: shootings in Albuquerque, or murders, I should say, most of

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Speaker 1: which are shootings, also about eighty four percent. The number

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Speaker 1: of murders in Albuquerque almost doubled. I think it's and

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Speaker 1: I think still you know, it's gone down a little

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Speaker 1: bit this year, but there's still about fifty percent higher

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Speaker 1: than the normal rate. Now, as you might guess from

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Speaker 1: the fact that you've probably watched Breaking Bad fifteen years

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Speaker 1: ago or whatever, the drug trade, drug trafficking, drug deals

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Speaker 1: gone bad have something to do with this. But I

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Speaker 1: think this year about seventeen something like that, seventeen twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of the homicides in Albuquerque are drug related, but

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Speaker 1: a much higher number above seventy percent. The police have

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Speaker 1: given the sort of kind of primary cause as individual

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Speaker 1: dis respect. Now what does that mean, Well, it means

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Speaker 1: kind of what you think of it. People getting into

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Speaker 1: shit with each other and somebody pulls a gun.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these have been traffic related, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: the shooting that kind of most directly inspired the governor's

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Speaker 1: controversial legal measure was a road rage incident. About what

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Speaker 1: was this, Yeah, on September ninth, I think it was.

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Speaker 1: An eleven year old boy was shot and killed in

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Speaker 1: a road rage incident as his family was leaving a

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Speaker 1: minor league baseball game. It looks like his aunt cut

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Speaker 1: off another driver. The driver followed them and fired seventeen

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Speaker 1: shots into the car. The eleven year old boy was

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Speaker 1: killed and his aunt is still in the hospital in

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Speaker 1: unstable condition at least last I checked after this shooting.

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Speaker 1: And this is, by the way, you know, prior to this,

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Speaker 1: there was another case where a little kid, I think

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Speaker 1: a four year old was killed in another road rage

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Speaker 1: shooting incident. We don't know who shot the kid in

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Speaker 1: this instance. We don't know if it was a for example,

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Speaker 1: a citizen legally carrying a firearm or somebody. Although in

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Speaker 1: the state of New Mexico you are allowed to carry

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Speaker 1: a loaded firearm in your vehicle. You're not allowed to

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Speaker 1: walk around with it concealed without a license, but you're

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Speaker 1: allowed to conceal it in your vehicle. The shooting that

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Speaker 1: preceded this one, the road raid shooting, wasn't illegal shooting.

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Speaker 1: It was because the guy was a drug dealer. He

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Speaker 1: had illegal drugs on him, all that stuff. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's messy. So really, in response to the governor's proclamation,

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Speaker 1: there have been quite a bit of people have gotten angry,

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Speaker 1: in part because the Supreme Court ruled fairly recently that

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Speaker 1: you have a right to carry a concealed firearm. There

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Speaker 1: are some barrier states can set up in terms of licensing,

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Speaker 1: but you can't stop people from carrying, like you have

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Speaker 1: to have a legal avenue for people to carry concealed firearms.

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Speaker 1: That's something that the Supreme Court has said you have

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Speaker 1: a right to do, and governors do not have the

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Speaker 1: right to overrule that sort of thing on public health grounds.

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Speaker 1: So this has become an increasingly contentious issue. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about some of the things that have followed

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Speaker 1: from this, but I want to bring on our source

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Speaker 1: for the day, Lucas Herndon. Lucas is a New Mexico

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Speaker 1: based activist, someone we've had on the show before as

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Speaker 1: well as a gun owner. Lucas, Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Robert. Good to be back, sort of as always.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a messy one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So that was a good a good summary of

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Speaker 4: what got us here this The the executive order was

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Speaker 4: dropped Friday afternoon, and I immediately went to my work

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Speaker 4: chat and said, hold on, y'all, this is going to

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Speaker 4: be a wild weekend. And as you can imagine, it was.

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Speaker 4: There has been incredible responses for sort of everybody on

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Speaker 4: to sort of Yeah, despite political ideologies, the responses have

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Speaker 4: been swift and ranging in their loudness, let's say, and

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Speaker 4: it's created a yeah, national buzz. A number of right

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Speaker 4: wing talking heads from the state have now you know,

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Speaker 4: been brought into national talking spaces. We have seen the

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Speaker 4: news bounce around the far right blogosphere and you know,

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Speaker 4: it's made it to Alex Jones and that kind of ilk.

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Speaker 4: But then, of course, you know, and so obviously there's

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Speaker 4: the there's that far end of the spectrum, and you know,

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Speaker 4: then there's the response here in the state, which is

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Speaker 4: you know, ranging from supportive, too indifferent, to angry to

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Speaker 4: all you know, all the different things you can think of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the things people may be kind of

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Speaker 1: confused about this. One of the things that's problematic about

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Speaker 1: this is specifically the fact that it is restricting citizens

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Speaker 1: who have concealed carryer permits from continuing to carry in

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Speaker 1: the county. States have a right to at least currently

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court has not you know, ruled counter to that.

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Speaker 1: Currently have a right to restrict people from open carrying,

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Speaker 1: and you have a right to restrict people from doing

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Speaker 1: stuff like have unlicensed carrying a handgun in your car right.

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Speaker 1: In the state of Oregon, for example, you cannot carry

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Speaker 1: a loaded weapon in your vehicle without a concealed carry permit.

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Speaker 1: As far as I'm aware, there's not been any sort

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Speaker 1: of constitutional challenge to that. There may be in the future,

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Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court, you know, has ruled very differently

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Speaker 1: on the issue of concealed firearms, and so that's a

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Speaker 1: problem because, you know, regardless of what you think about

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Speaker 1: how the law on concealed carry of firearms should be,

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Speaker 1: the idea of a governor overturning a right like that,

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Speaker 1: access to a right like that based on what they

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Speaker 1: call the public health emergency is deeply concerning, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is why you had, you know, a surprising people

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Speaker 1: come out against this, including David who's one of the

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Speaker 1: Parkland kids, and a gun control advocate who said, you know,

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Speaker 1: the govenor simply doesn't have the right to do this,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of more or less where I land.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, and just to just to be clear, right,

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm not an attorney, but I am a gun

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Speaker 4: owner and have exercised that right since I was legally

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Speaker 4: allowed to do so at eighteen, which was very long ago.

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Speaker 3: At this point.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, I've been I have been a New Mexico

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Speaker 4: gun owner paying attention to things and how those laws

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Speaker 4: affect me for quite a while. One of the yeah,

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Speaker 4: one of the interesting things about the executive order, and

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Speaker 4: you sort of touched on it, is that the in

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Speaker 4: the in the order, it specifically limits having a firearm

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Speaker 4: in your vehicle to traveling to any excluded place that

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Speaker 4: she listed in the executive order. Right, so there's there's

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Speaker 4: a there's a ban on you know, carrying unless you're

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Speaker 4: going to like X, wire Z specific places, and that

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Speaker 4: then is furthered that you can only have a firearm

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Speaker 4: in your vehicle if you're traveling to one of the

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Speaker 4: said places. So yeah, that's that is in direct contradiction

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Speaker 4: to existing law because New Mexico, ostensibly your home or

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Speaker 4: your car is an extension of your home. You don't

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Speaker 4: there is there there basically is no law about having

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Speaker 4: a car a firearm in your car, which has led

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Speaker 4: to some weird things because so, for instance, you can

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Speaker 4: get a dui on a bicycle and so that law

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Speaker 4: has actually been used that you can carry a concealed

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Speaker 4: firearm like in a backpack on a bicycle. But the

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Speaker 4: second you step off the bicycle. Now you're in violation

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Speaker 4: of the law unless you have a permit. So, you know,

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Speaker 4: those specific pieces of gun law and her executive order,

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Speaker 4: even in the state, are at odds let alone whatever

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Speaker 4: the maybe you know, the implications.

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Speaker 1: Are yeah, and I think you know. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that is kind of concerning about this to me

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Speaker 1: is and that should be concerning about this people, is

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Speaker 1: that I don't see how I can see an argument

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Speaker 1: for saying we want to restrict the unlicensed carry of

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Speaker 1: firearms in vehicles, right, because a significant number of these

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Speaker 1: shootings seem to have involved that. Although it is a

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Speaker 1: little bit unclear. We don't know who carried out the

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Speaker 1: most recent road raid shooting, so we don't know if

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Speaker 1: that person was legally allowed to possess a firearm. Right,

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Speaker 1: we know that in at least one of the recent

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Speaker 1: shootings that killed a kid, the person was you know,

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Speaker 1: had a dealing amount and what appeared to be a

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Speaker 1: dealing like a setup of you know, it was parceled

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Speaker 1: out into baggies marijuana on him, which is illegal. I'm

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Speaker 1: not making a moral statement about that. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it should be illegal to but it is. It is illegal,

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Speaker 1: right Like, he was not carrying within the bounds of

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Speaker 1: federal law. But restricting people from carrying licensed concealed hand

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Speaker 1: guns does not seem I mean, number one, I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen evidence that like that's a major driver of gun violence.

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Speaker 1: But number two, if a decent number of these shootings

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Speaker 1: are people acting outside of the bounds of the law,

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Speaker 1: which they appear to be, I don't see how restricting

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Speaker 1: people from lawfully carrying a weapon is something that can

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Speaker 1: that's going to make the problem better, right Like, it

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Speaker 1: seems like you're kind of striking at this in an

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Speaker 1: ineffective way that's going to galvanize resistance to any kind

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Speaker 1: of gun control, as opposed to going out with kind

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Speaker 1: of a more limited and surgical approach to try and

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Speaker 1: actually tackle the causes of the problem.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think one of the reasons why being

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Speaker 4: on your show to talk about this is worth thinking about.

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Speaker 4: The last time I was on was, you know, earlier

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Speaker 4: in the year when we discovered that there was a

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Speaker 4: GOP operative who had committed acts of violence in the

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Speaker 4: form of shooting at democrats elected Democrats up in the

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Speaker 4: Bernoleo County area as an act of political violence. And

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Speaker 4: worth thinking about is that, you know, he was charged

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Speaker 4: with firing a firing a firearm from a moving vehicle,

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Speaker 4: which is a crime, like it's it's a specific crime,

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Speaker 4: which and also like very valid crime. You should not

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Speaker 4: be you should never shoot from a moving vehicle. Like

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Speaker 4: that's correct, that's so the right, so we you know

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Speaker 4: again yeah again not a lawyer, however, it seemed duplicative

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Speaker 4: to have a law on the books that already there

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Speaker 4: it is a crime to fire your gun from a

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Speaker 4: car already h and people who have, people who have

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Speaker 4: committed heinous acts of violence by violating that law could

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Speaker 4: be and should be charged under that law. First of all,

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Speaker 4: let me just say, like if we believe in a

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Speaker 4: car serial state, because that's a whole.

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Speaker 3: Other moral question.

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Speaker 4: However, for the purposes of this conversation, however, if somebody

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Speaker 4: is just driving down the street and has a gun

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Speaker 4: in their car, does that create you know, are they

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Speaker 4: are you know, are they committing a crime that feels

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Speaker 4: conflicting and harmful?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's you know, as you there's a couple

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Speaker 1: of things we should talk about here. I think one

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Speaker 1: of them is what I what I consider to be

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Speaker 1: a kind of a dishonest anti gun control argument that

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Speaker 1: comes out from time to time, which is the idea

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Speaker 1: that you shouldn't restrict access. You can't restrict access to

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Speaker 1: firearms because criminals won't obey those laws. It's true, criminals

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Speaker 1: don't obey like people who are committing gun crimes are

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Speaker 1: not obeying the law. By definition, they're people who are

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Speaker 1: committing gun crimes. But increased availability access to firearms makes

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Speaker 1: it easier for people who are going to be bad

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Speaker 1: actors to acquire fire arms. Right, Regardless of what you

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Speaker 1: think the legal remedy to that situation is, that is

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Speaker 1: a pretty undeniable situation. I consider this to be quite different,

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Speaker 1: because what you are saying in this instance is we

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Speaker 1: are restricting We have people who are not acting legally

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Speaker 1: with firearms they already own. So we are going to

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Speaker 1: restrict people who are acting within the bounds of the

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Speaker 1: law with firearms they own from from behaving in a

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Speaker 1: certain way, which I have a serious issue with. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is a difference, you know,

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Speaker 1: between those two kind of situations on a pretty fundamental level.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would agree, and and and the disingenuous knee

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Speaker 4: jerk response from the far right over this, while completely expected,

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Speaker 4: that's exactly what you know, that's exactly what they're doing, right,

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Speaker 4: They're equating this ill informed, uh poorly worded however you

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Speaker 4: want to say, they're they're they're taking this thing and

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Speaker 4: using it as a pretense for all their uh far

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Speaker 4: right propaganda extremes, you know, calling to impeach the governor

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Speaker 4: because she's you know, intending to violate the constitution or

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Speaker 4: some silliness like that, which is yeah, which is just yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's that's just far right conspiracy manstormation, in my.

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Speaker 1: Opinion, and it has galvanized them. Right, there's been an

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Speaker 1: open carry protests already, and the sheriff saying or one

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Speaker 1: of the sheriffs in the area saying like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to we will not be enforcing this law.

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Speaker 4: Well and and yeah, and I think that that's actually

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Speaker 4: maybe something that for this podcast and for for your audience,

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Speaker 4: for those longtime listeners who who followed this show, that

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Speaker 4: to me is actually one of the most maybe interesting

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Speaker 4: and like crumbles oriented parts of this Yes, yes, absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 4: so yeah. So yesterday, the Bernoleo County sheriff, who is

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Speaker 4: an elected official and it is his County that the

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Speaker 4: that this executive order effects, came out and said that

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Speaker 4: he would not enforce it. He said that the uh

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Speaker 4: he'd got he'd barely gotten a heads up from the governor,

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Speaker 4: but he did admit that. You know, she she sort

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Speaker 4: of like reached out to him, said hey, I'm gonna

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Speaker 4: do this thing. I know you probably won't agree, and

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Speaker 4: he's like, yeah, I don't agree, and she's like, okay,

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Speaker 4: well we'll figure it out.

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Speaker 3: And he was like, okay, I guess we will anyway.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So this he came out, made this announcement he's

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Speaker 4: not going to enforce it. The the chief of police

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Speaker 4: from the Albuquerque Department has more or less made the

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Speaker 4: same intonation, with support from the very progressive Democratic mayor

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Speaker 4: of Albuquerque, who hasn't necessarily outright said he disagrees, but

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Speaker 4: has said that he's more concerned about his officer's safety.

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Speaker 4: And that brings up an interesting point that like, oh yes,

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Speaker 4: like like cops trying to enforce this law like that

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Speaker 4: sounds like a recipe for disaster, which is which is

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Speaker 4: why you didn't see any cops in we're seeing the.

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Speaker 3: The order at the protest on Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is one of those like why why

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Speaker 1: would you write like that's such a yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So the most recent thing this afternoon is that the

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Speaker 4: the state's attorney attorney general, whose whose job it is

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Speaker 4: to defend the state or you know, officers of the state,

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Speaker 4: has announced that he will not defend the governor in

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Speaker 4: his official capacity from the three current lawsuits that have

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Speaker 4: already been filed since Friday. So so yeah, there there

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Speaker 4: basically seems to be this complete lack of support from

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Speaker 4: the from the parts of government that are supposed to

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Speaker 4: do the things you know, yeah, and and you know,

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Speaker 4: it begs the yeah, it for those of us that

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Speaker 4: think about these things, it begs the question of, yeah,

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Speaker 4: how far does this go? What is the next you

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Speaker 4: know thing that a sitting governor attempts to pass using

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Speaker 4: administrative power and then isn't enforced And what does that mean?

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Speaker 4: And how do we care about this one but not

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Speaker 4: other things or you know whatever. So those are those

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Speaker 4: are the questions that that we're all asking ourselves here

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Speaker 4: in New Mexico, And as somebody who works in this

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Speaker 4: field professionally, like we've spent a lot of time in

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Speaker 4: the last forty eight hours, like asking ourselves those questions.

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Speaker 4: It's tough, it's there, there is a there isn't an

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Speaker 4: easy answer on this one.

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Speaker 1: And this is something by the way, that is I

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Speaker 1: think pretty directly relevant to everybody listening because one of

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Speaker 1: the stories probably under reported stories. We've talked about it

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Speaker 1: from time to time here, you know, it was something

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Speaker 1: that kind of was was in the DNA of the

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Speaker 1: original you know, run of it could happen here, but

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Speaker 1: probably we could stand to talk about it lot more

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Speaker 1: is the rise of most common term these guys use

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Speaker 1: for themselves as constitutional sheriffs, right, And there is this

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Speaker 1: this is a long standing belief on the far right.

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Speaker 1: It comes out of really the seventies and eighties is

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Speaker 1: when a lot of this stuff started cooking. But this

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Speaker 1: belief that has kind of formed over you know, particularly

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Speaker 1: the last twenty years, that the sheriff constitutionally is the

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Speaker 1: highest law of the land, basically, right. And so you

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Speaker 1: can have sheriffs who refuse to particularly and this is

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Speaker 1: where it comes in, most often refuse to enforce gun

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Speaker 1: control laws, right. And this has sort of You've got

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Speaker 1: a lot you know, a lot of some of this

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Speaker 1: came got sort of like mixed in with a lot

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Speaker 1: of the election bullshit on the right, where like you

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Speaker 1: had a lot of sheriffs, you know, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of concern as to how they would respond to

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Speaker 1: states and the federal government sort of enforcing, you know,

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Speaker 1: or stopping, you know, the Trump administration from doing some

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Speaker 1: certain things around the counting of votes. You know, there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of real concern about that. And I

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Speaker 1: think this is something that is going to continue to

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Speaker 1: be more and more of a problem because a lot

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Speaker 1: of these sheriffs departments are completely out of fucking pocket,

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Speaker 1: right these are And by the way, with sheriff departments,

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Speaker 1: not that being part of a police hierarchy in a

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Speaker 1: traditional sense provides much restraint. But sheriffs are completely fucking

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Speaker 1: out there right like they are there are not It

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Speaker 1: does vary from state to state, but there's not any

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Speaker 1: sort of like central requirement about like what it takes

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Speaker 1: to be a sheriff or a sheriff's deputy. A lot

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Speaker 1: of them are just dudes, right, Like That's why you

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Speaker 1: had it was either in New Mexico or Arizona, like

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Speaker 1: a small sheriff's department basically selling to like celebrities, you

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Speaker 1: can become a sheriff's deputy here like work a week

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Speaker 1: and a year and then you can carry a concealed

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Speaker 1: handgun wherever because cops get that, right, you know, right, Like, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I just want to be clear because what

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Speaker 4: you're talking about and how it pertains to New Mexico

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Speaker 4: is both one hundred percent correct and has and has

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Speaker 4: and has happened here.

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Speaker 3: It could happen here.

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Speaker 4: But is uh but in the case of this issue

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Speaker 4: right now, Yeah, Bernoleo County Sheriff took office this year.

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Speaker 3: He is a Democrat. He's a man of color. Uh not.

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Speaker 4: This is not me making excuses for cops because but

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Speaker 4: I just to be clear about this. And he is

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Speaker 4: generally disliked by the right and has been seen as

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Speaker 4: you know whatever, soft on crime and stuff, which he

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Speaker 4: hates and has tried He's tried real hard to sort

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Speaker 4: of buck that position, and and so and and that,

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Speaker 4: which which makes this all the maybe worse, right that that, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: a Democrat elected in a democratic county with a you know,

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Speaker 4: the city, the state's largest democratic municipality, right Like, for

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Speaker 4: that guy to be like, yeah, I'm not gonna I'm

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Speaker 4: not gonna do this, and and I also there's something

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Speaker 4: that needs to be said here. You you cited some great,

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Speaker 4: well tragic statistics about my state and specifically about Albuquerque earlier.

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Speaker 4: And and this is a public health crisis, right gotten

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Speaker 4: by absolutely yeah, it's out.

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Speaker 1: When you're seeing the number of homicides basically double, you

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Speaker 1: know in the space of a fucking year, that that

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Speaker 1: is a that's a crist Something needs to be done right.

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Speaker 3: Right right.

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Speaker 4: And and so one of one of one of the

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Speaker 4: big things that hasn't I don't think been said loud

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Speaker 4: enough is that if if we you know, you know,

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Speaker 4: if we all agree that it is a crisis, a

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Speaker 4: thirty day ban is not gonna it's not gonna do anything,

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Speaker 4: and it's certainly not going to address the root causes.

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Speaker 4: And I actually, very reluctantly have to hand it to

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Speaker 4: the sheriff for his statements yesterday, because, as he put it,

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Speaker 4: he has enough crime to deal with.

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Speaker 3: He's not enough going on that.

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Speaker 4: His deputies have to have to deal with right now

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Speaker 4: to then go and enforce this arbitrary rule or you

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Speaker 4: know order. It's not a it's not a lot, it's

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Speaker 4: but you know what I mean. So so that's another thing, right,

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Speaker 4: like this is your You're we're dealing with a public

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Speaker 4: health crisis by putting the impetus on law enforcement, which

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Speaker 4: is the whole problem with you know, the way that

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Speaker 4: this country deals with, you know, the the quote unquote

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Speaker 4: drug problem. And and let's be very clear here, when

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Speaker 4: the governor issued her order on Friday, she issued two orders.

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Speaker 4: One is called uh the one with the one with

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Speaker 4: dealing with guns, is declaring state of public Health Emergency

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Speaker 4: due to gun violence. But at the same time, she

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Speaker 4: issued one saying declaring State of Public Health Emergency due

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Speaker 4: to drug abuse. And there, you know, for her, these

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Speaker 4: things are related, and she's you know, she's trying to

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Speaker 4: time together. And I think we all know that given

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Speaker 4: the last forty years of American history dealing with drugs

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Speaker 4: via you know, law enforcement has not done anything to

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Speaker 4: help the problem. And so that it just again, this

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Speaker 4: is one of those things where it feels counterintuitive for

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Speaker 4: a governor who you know, generally the Democrats of this

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Speaker 4: state support, who has won by fairly large margins in

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Speaker 4: both of her elections and and has a Democratic majority

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Speaker 4: in her legislature, that for her then to issue this

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Speaker 4: order and put more requirements on her law enforcement that

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Speaker 4: she's expecting to you know, also then carry. It just

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Speaker 4: doesn't it doesn't make sense, right, And so that's where

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Speaker 4: we're all scrambling.

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Speaker 1: It's it's there's a couple of things that make this

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Speaker 1: so dangerous. One is that it's this unnecessary own goal, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, as you stated, this is not this and

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be sort of intimating that he

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Speaker 1: was that this sheriff is not particularly tied in directly

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Speaker 1: to some of these longer standing weird constitutional sheriff things,

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Speaker 1: but it does tie into this this pattern of sort

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Speaker 1: of conservatives backing sheriffs against like state power and against

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Speaker 1: federal power that they dislike. And in this case one

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Speaker 1: of the things that makes this so toxic is they

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Speaker 1: have a point, right, this this order is not constitutional,

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Speaker 1: and giving them ammunition like that is number one. It

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Speaker 1: strengthens right wing organizing in a way that is you know, dangerous,

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Speaker 1: but also it's completely unnecessary, it's completely it does not

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Speaker 1: address the problem, and the problem is is very like,

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Speaker 1: extremely serious, and so I find this kind of distracting

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Speaker 1: from realistic solutions here, you know, which, which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: can you know, probably do to some extent involve restricting

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Speaker 1: you know, uh certain the ability of people to carry

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Speaker 1: in certain situations, to carry in certain ways in certain situations.

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Speaker 3: I think one of them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, no, no, you have well, I was

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Speaker 4: just gonna I just want to, you know, for for

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Speaker 4: folks interested in, you know, what New Mexico has done.

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Speaker 4: Things that have happened in the under this administration, are

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Speaker 4: there are There have been some advancements that as a

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Speaker 4: gun owner I support. One was closing private sales as

435
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 4: a thing. You know, I grew up buying guns out

436
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 4: of the backs of cars. Uh wild, I have some

437
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 4: wild stories about that, but that was a fully legal

438
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 4: thing to do.

439
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: We had private sales in this in the state. I've

440
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 3: got a lot of car guns up. Yeah.

441
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it is fun, but we should probably probably,

442
00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: that's not probably, This should be probably, and especially and

443
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: especially for those of us that don't have anything restricting

444
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: us from by purchasing firearms, there's no reason to not

445
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: just do anyway. So that being said, so the New

446
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: Mexico did end private sales, so that's one thing. And

447
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: then this last year we instituted It's not a full

448
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: safe storage law, but it goes a long way instituting

449
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: a safe storage law. It specifically creates a situation where

450
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: if a minor gets access to a gun that was

451
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: not secured and then commits a crime with it, then

452
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,959
Speaker 1: the owner of that firearm is then held liable. And

453
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: it has been used now twice and two fairly high

454
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: profile tragic shootings in the state. I should note here

455
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: a decent number of the recent spike and homicides have

456
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: been children getting access to firearm zoned by adults, either

457
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: accidentally or purposefully using them to shoot and kill people. Right, yeah,

458
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: so yeah, the law, the laws. The law is called

459
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: the Benny Hargrove Act, which was named in honor of

460
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: a of a young man who was killed at a

461
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: middle school by a fellow middle schooler with a gun

462
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: that the guy got off of. You know that the

463
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: kid got out of a you know, a bedside drawer.

464
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, And as again, as a firearm owner,

465
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: like I'm sitting across from my safe right now, I

466
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 1: keep my guns locked up.

467
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: So there are there are practical solutions.

468
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,959
Speaker 4: Here, yes, And and I know that this country has

469
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 4: a hard time talking about guns without it getting out

470
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: of pocket very quickly, But there are practical solutions we have.

471
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 4: You know, one of the interesting responses from Democratic lawmakers

472
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 4: in the state over the last you know, three days

473
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 4: has been a call for a special session of our

474
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 4: legislature to discuss what some of those things might be.

475
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 4: The trouble with that is that in everybody's got this

476
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 4: like knee jerk thing and everybody wants to talk about crime.

477
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 4: I'm using big air quotes crime, tim and and which

478
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 4: is in direct counter you know, counterance to the idea

479
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 4: that this is a public health crisis. So you know,

480
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 4: we have a lot of reservations about what what might

481
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 4: come out of a session like that. We would have

482
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 4: to do a lot of work to protect you know,

483
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 4: some of the things we've we've you know, we've done

484
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 4: a lot to protect people from the car cerial system

485
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 4: in this state, which is hell a predatory, and so

486
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: those are protections we want to keep, you know, keep

487
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: in place. But it's easy for the right of course

488
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: to blame like that's the reason the reason, the reason

489
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 4: why shootings have increased is because we let people who've

490
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 4: been arrested for you know, petty theft or something out

491
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 4: of out of jail, and for some reason, that's why

492
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 4: crime is up. I don't know, it doesn't make sense,

493
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: but anyway, so you know, it's even even with the

494
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 4: solutions come more problems. But but yeah, there does seem

495
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 4: to be the unintended consequences of this order seem to

496
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 4: be the not just the backlash, but then the sort

497
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 4: of non support from folks who would otherwise be supporting her.

498
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: So I kind of want to close, probably by talking

499
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: about thank you for that, by the way, for that

500
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: context for talking about what I think is the underlying

501
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: a big part of the underlying cause you that is

502
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: also a big part of a surgeon violence in a

503
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: number of states nationwide, which is that like people are

504
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: a lot of a significant chunk of this country has

505
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: become unhinged since COVID. I kind of suspect that has

506
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: a lot to do with it. But you are seeing

507
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: in a number of states a significant amount of like

508
00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: anti social violence, violence that occurs because somebody cut somebody

509
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: off in traffic, somebody gets into an argument at a store,

510
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, somebody gets into an argument at a parking lot.

511
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: There have been a number of shootings as a result

512
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: of this. It's happened. You know, this is a big

513
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: part of the rise and gun violence in Texas, which

514
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: is also tied I think, to permitless carry to an extent,

515
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 1: but like it is broader than that too, Right, this

516
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: is not purely an access to guns, is why a

517
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: lot of these crimes involved guns. But there's just been

518
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: this rise in anti social violence, a lot of which

519
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: comes out of arguments or perceived disrespect between one person

520
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: and a group of people or two people or whatever.

521
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: And I think this is probably tied into with a

522
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: lot of the you know, increase in political violence we've seen,

523
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: because a decent amount of it does arise out of that.

524
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: And this is part of what I think is kind

525
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: of disheartening about the governor's response here, is that this

526
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: is a very serious problem and the kind of knee

527
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: jerk reactions don't help it. But also like I don't

528
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: know what does right. You can deal with the aspects

529
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: of this problem, Right, maybe if people aren't just able

530
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: to throw a gun in their pants and legally be carrying,

531
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: there will be less of these shootings, but that doesn't

532
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: deal with all of the underlying problem. And I don't

533
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: really know what does This kind of like increased willingness

534
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: of Americans to resort to violence in interpersonal conflicts is

535
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: a real issue.

536
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh man, you said, yeah, I think that, you know,

537
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 4: I'm thinking of I'm thinking about the first time I

538
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: was able to go to a school function of my

539
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: daughters after after COVID orders were lifted. And I remember

540
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: I was was with a family member and they were,

541
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 4: you know, they were the commenting on sort of people's

542
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 4: bad behavior in the auditorium, and you know, and I

543
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 4: had to find them.

544
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, the.

545
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 4: These people have not been outside, yeah, in a year

546
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 4: and a half. And you know, and like specifically, like

547
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 4: some of these little kids that are running around, they

548
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 4: they maybe have never been to a function like this,

549
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Like by the time, by

550
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 4: the time most three or four year olds have are

551
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 4: going to I don't know, like a baseball game or

552
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 4: a band concert, you know, they've at some point it's

553
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 4: the first time, but you know, they get used to it,

554
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 4: they start to understand the rules of things. But yeah,

555
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: like after you know, if you grow up and you're

556
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you're five and you've never been

557
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: to something like this, like you don't know, you're supposed

558
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 4: to sit down and be quiet, listen to the thing right,

559
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 4: like you're just sitting on your phone anyway. So yeah, yeah,

560
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 4: I definitely agree with you. I think in New Mexico

561
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: we're not isolated from other states in the sense that

562
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 4: we have arise in drug use and related crime. We're

563
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 4: not isolated in the sense we have a rise in

564
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 4: you know, our houseless population, in lack of job or

565
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 4: at least good job, and and all of those things

566
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 4: come together to make life hard, you know, and when

567
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 4: life is hard, it it impacts people and they make,

568
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 4: you know, bad decisions. The thing that I think does

569
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 4: hurt New Mexico and and and is maybe what makes

570
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 4: New Mexico unfortunately sort of stand out from some of

571
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: its issues is, you know, we are a very rural state.

572
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 4: We have one fairly large city in Albuquerque, but even then,

573
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 4: the surrounding parts of Albuquerque, just like the rest of

574
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 4: the state, are very rural, and there's a certain amount

575
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 4: of you know, we just as a state, we are

576
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 4: lacking resources and always have, you know, we rely so

577
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: heavily on one industry and without without the systems in

578
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 4: place to ensure that people have a place to live

579
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: or you know, a meal, to get a job, to

580
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 4: go to recreation that they can afford things like that.

581
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it is tough. It is just tough out there.

582
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: And I'm I'm privileged and I get to you know,

583
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 4: I I'm raising my daughter in a home that you know,

584
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 4: we want for very little. But I see it even

585
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 4: in my in my peer group, I see people who

586
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: are struggling all the time, and yeah, it's just tough

587
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 4: out there, you know.

588
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 3: It is, it is.

589
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: And I honestly, you know, New Mexico and Oregon are

590
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: similar in a lot of ways, and that they're both

591
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: very low popular. I think we're both at around four

592
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: million people if I'm not mistaken.

593
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 3: Oh New Mexico is only like two million.

594
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: Oh you're two millions. So yeah, even even less so

595
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: low population states that have one big city that kind

596
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: of dominates politics, but a very conservative kind of rural

597
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 1: area in a lot of ways outside of that. And

598
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: in both cases, that urban area has seen recent massive

599
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: spikes in interpersonal violence and in you know, fatal issues

600
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: due to drug use. Right now, one of the things, obviously,

601
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: one of the things Oregon has coming through it is

602
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: because of all of the retire recent stuff here, like

603
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: a much higher tax base, right so there's theoretically more resources,

604
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: although I tend to argue very incompetently applied, so most

605
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: of us don't actually get out, but you do. You

606
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: do have this kind of this This is one of

607
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 1: these places where this urban rural divide is is both

608
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: a lot stricter and where this state that is the

609
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: majority of the population and is dealing with such severe

610
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: issues is also kind of the political center or this

611
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: this city is also the political center of the state. Well, yeah,

612
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: that and and just yeah, you absolutely hit on something there.

613
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: You know, Albuquerque has been historically you know, decentralized due

614
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: to gentrification for the last generation because of exactly what

615
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: you said, which is that retirement community, you know, outside

616
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: of oil and gas, and then the federal government in

617
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: terms of like the labs and the universities and things

618
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: like that, Like retirees are basically our third general you know,

619
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: generative revenue. Agriculture probably in there too, but you know what,

620
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: you give what I'm saying, they're a very high portion.

621
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, and and you know the Albuquerque that I

622
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: grew up, going to visit all of my family in

623
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: and like going you know, going downtown, going you know,

624
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: down to the international district going near the university. You know,

625
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: it never felt it never felt I hate to use

626
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: the word dangerous, but it never felt dangerous, right, it

627
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: never it never felt that way at all to me.

628
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: Not that it does not that I feel danger to

629
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: my to my person as a you know, as a

630
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: white sis.

631
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 4: He had dude with a beard like walking around like

632
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 4: I usually feel pretty safe in my person.

633
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 3: But yeah, I can't say that. I would.

634
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 4: I have reflect that from everybody that I know that

635
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 4: lives there. And people make choices about where they go,

636
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 4: what time of day, et cetera, et cetera. And a

637
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 4: big part of that is because of the gentrification that

638
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 4: has pushed the you know, native population of Albuquerque out

639
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 4: into these more rural places. It makes it harder to

640
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 4: get to you know, get to groceries, get to jobs,

641
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 4: get to transportation. Yeah, all of those are factors in this.

642
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 4: And it's and it's not just a one size fits

643
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 4: all solution.

644
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 2: Yep.

645
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: Well, Lucas, is there everything else you wanted to get

646
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: into today?

647
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean there's always something, but no, this was

648
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: this was great? Thank you? Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you

649
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 3: giving us the opportunity.

650
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 4: It's you know, I'm a I'm a longtime listener of

651
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 4: this show, and when this issue came up, I really

652
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 4: was thinking about some of those topics you brought up,

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00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 4: you know, way back in the first run of It

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00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 4: could Happen Here, and thinking about the that conflict that

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00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 4: exists between state entities and you know, passing laws and

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00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 4: enforcing laws and who does that and who doesn't and

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00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 4: what does it mean if they don't.

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00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So this will continue to be a topic

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00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: of vibrant discussion. So I'm sure we'll have you back

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00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: at the very near future. Yeah, happy to come back

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00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: for that. Yep, yep. All right, everybody, this is the uh,

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00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: this has been an episode of It Could Happen Here?

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00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: You know, go go Yeah, Lucas, you have any pluggables

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00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: to plug before we're all out of here?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah sure.

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00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 4: I mean, if you are interested, I'm on Twitter at

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00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 4: Lucas Herndon. And if you're curious about you know, New

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00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 4: Mexico politics, progress now New Mexico on all the socials.

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Speaker 1: Most excellent. All right, everybody, this has been an episode.

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Speaker 2: Go home. It could Happen Here? As a production of

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00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

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00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us

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00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you

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00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 2: listen to podcasts, you can find sources for It could

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00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: happen here, Updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.