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Speaker 1: Hello, They're happy Monday, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast. It is the last week in October.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly for you to be thinking about, it is

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Speaker 1: the last week of daylight saving time. Notice what I

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Speaker 1: did there, said saving not savings. When we have all

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Speaker 1: those different different debates, we'll be going for standard time.

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Speaker 1: And for those of you, this is this one week

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Speaker 1: oddity where it's only a four hour difference between New

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Speaker 1: York and London because London and the UK do their

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Speaker 1: time change a week earlier. Of course, here in the

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Speaker 1: United States we always seem to redebate this time change

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Speaker 1: all the time. I guess now that Marco Ruby is

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Speaker 1: not in the Senate, we don't have this annual six

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Speaker 1: month campaign to try to get rid of rid of it,

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Speaker 1: and everybody has their stupid debate lined up. Bottom line,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those debates that should serve to

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Speaker 1: inform a lot of other debates that we have repetitively

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Speaker 1: that just go round and round and in in the

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Speaker 1: same place. We've had this debate in the seventies, We've

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Speaker 1: had this debate in the nineties, We've had this debate

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Speaker 1: in the odds. So just let it be My only

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Speaker 1: complaint is I wish we could square it up at

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Speaker 1: six months. This whole chipping away where basically it's kind

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Speaker 1: of seven and a half months four and a half months,

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Speaker 1: is kind of ridiculous on how we split this up,

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Speaker 1: especially these last three weeks when it is so dark

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Speaker 1: when you get up, super super dark, even at seven

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Speaker 1: in the morning out here. All right, that whinyiness away,

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Speaker 1: but that is coming up later this week. Let me

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Speaker 1: give you a rundown of what I've got today, a

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Speaker 1: little bit of update on the shutdown. Where we are

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Speaker 1: with congressional politics. I have a feeling we've turned an

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Speaker 1: important corner, and I'm going to get to that in

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Speaker 1: a few minutes. My interview today is extraordinarily important, and

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Speaker 1: I really leave you're going to enjoy it, but perhaps

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Speaker 1: be a bit alarmed at the same time. It is

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Speaker 1: with documentary film director Roll Peck. He is the director

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Speaker 1: of a new film that is now out in select

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Speaker 1: movie theaters around the country. It's called Orwell two plus

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Speaker 1: two equals five. It is a fascinating documentary, really well done.

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Speaker 1: This is not just a talking heads documentary. This is

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Speaker 1: done with some This has there's a craft to how

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Speaker 1: mister Peck put this together. This is filmmaking that just

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Speaker 1: happens to be a documentary. There's two types of documentaries,

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Speaker 1: those that filmmakers make, those that journalists make. Sometimes journalists

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Speaker 1: are smart enough to get a filmmaker to help them.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes filmmakers have the journalistic sense to make a great documentary.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those documentaries. What it is it's

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Speaker 1: the source material is Orwell's letters. It's basically the last year.

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Speaker 1: It's essentially him writing nineteen eighty four, right before he dies.

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Speaker 1: He's dying of tuberculosis. He's sharing letters with his son

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Speaker 1: and his wife, and in many ways that's the sort

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Speaker 1: of spine that did they go through this. But it

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Speaker 1: does a terrific job of bringing the past and the

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Speaker 1: present into this conversation about misinformation, disinformation and can we

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Speaker 1: believe what we see? Ironically, this was done before we

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Speaker 1: had seen sort of AI totally destroy what was left

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Speaker 1: of the credibility of social media. Right, this was done, Yes,

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Speaker 1: we knew AI was coming, but with Sura, this was

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Speaker 1: a situation, of course, where nobody could anticipate how quickly

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Speaker 1: we would no longer be able to believe anything that

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Speaker 1: we've seen. So I do think you will enjoy this conversation,

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Speaker 1: though you should feel quite am I mean, we are

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Speaker 1: in a We're in a troubling situation with the information ecosystem. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: this is something I've been harping on for some time,

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Speaker 1: something that I hope to be participating in trying to

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Speaker 1: fix on the media end of things. I do believe

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Speaker 1: you have to start, frankly with local and it is

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Speaker 1: it continues to be a focus. But I'm hoping, and

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Speaker 1: I have, and I fear, frankly, both hope and fear

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Speaker 1: that this or Well documentary is going to catch fire,

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Speaker 1: because it should, because we are now at the moment

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Speaker 1: in some ways that he foresaw, you know, some seventy

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Speaker 1: years ago when he wrote nineteen eighty four, I will

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Speaker 1: also have my time the toodcast time machine of the day.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say it's a fascinating anniversary. It's an anniversary

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Speaker 1: of the publication of perhaps one of the most important

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Speaker 1: set of of essays ever written in the English language.

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Speaker 1: That's my clue for you right now. Don't fast forward

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Speaker 1: to see what it is. Don't read the show notes

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Speaker 1: to see sure what I said. See if you can

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Speaker 1: guess without getting a clue there, and then of course

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Speaker 1: I'll wrap things up with my dissection of the weekend

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Speaker 1: in college football, including my view of those interesting and

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Speaker 1: unique uniform offerings at the University of Miami decided to

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Speaker 1: participate in, and I will perhaps you have an idea

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Speaker 1: of where I'm coming down on that, but again trying

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Speaker 1: to try to have a little tease here for you

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Speaker 1: and not let everything right out of the bag. But

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Speaker 1: I want to start with sort of the state of

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Speaker 1: where we are with congressional politics with the president now

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Speaker 1: overseas once again, right, just scrap this week is we

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Speaker 1: just are automatically going to go finish out October with

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Speaker 1: the government basically shut down. I say basically shut down.

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Speaker 1: We have this sort of piecemeal attempt by the President

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Speaker 1: to try to do the military pay, including the unusual

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Speaker 1: and possibly it's not illegal, but it probably shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: allowed to do where you just sort of have a

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Speaker 1: personal donor decide to chip in on military pay. He's

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Speaker 1: Timothy Mellon of an Air of the Melon, Carnegie Mellon

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Speaker 1: all those things, right, that's the name the melon name there.

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Speaker 1: He wrote one hundred and thirty million dollars to contribute

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Speaker 1: to military pay. Okay, but that is it is one

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Speaker 1: of those that you don't want to say no to

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Speaker 1: the help. But here's my curiosity. Is he going to

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Speaker 1: get reimbursed when the government gets open? Should he get reimbursed?

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Speaker 1: Do we do this? This is a This is a

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Speaker 1: It's one of those precedents that we probably should not

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Speaker 1: be setting. But again, with all of the unethical and

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Speaker 1: perhaps illegal things that Donald Trump has done, this is

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Speaker 1: pretty low on the list, but it is unusual. So

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Speaker 1: where are we We're going to go another week with

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Speaker 1: the government shutdown. November one is an important date because

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Speaker 1: that's when we're going to have those healthcare of fee

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Speaker 1: notices go out. More people will see how large the

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Speaker 1: increase in healthcare premiums is going to be. That's likely

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Speaker 1: to jumpstart some conversations here when it comes to reopening

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Speaker 1: the government. But I'll tell you this, You know most

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Speaker 1: of you know my view on this that I do

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Speaker 1: think that the Democrats have gotten everything they can get

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Speaker 1: out of this, and at some point they need to

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Speaker 1: be on the side of opening the government up. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, there's I think they have plenty of

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Speaker 1: leverage now, plenty of political attention to the healthcare issue.

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Speaker 1: They've sort of gotten what they wanted, and if anything,

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Speaker 1: there's a fear that every day they let it go by.

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Speaker 1: They sort of allowed Donald Trump to run the government

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Speaker 1: in a way that they're going to regret because he's

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Speaker 1: able to sort of pick and choose what parts of

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Speaker 1: the government he opens, pick and chooses what part of

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Speaker 1: the government he uses, et cetera. But I think the

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Speaker 1: Speaker of the House has made a huge mistake by

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Speaker 1: keeping his members out of town and by keeping the

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Speaker 1: House shut down. He is self marginalized. And it is

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Speaker 1: the single easiest campaign to run when you're running for

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Speaker 1: Congress against an incumbent member of Congress, is the fact

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Speaker 1: this person won't does not serve, does not do his

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Speaker 1: job in Congress, does not serve as a check on

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Speaker 1: some of the things that may be outraging you about

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Speaker 1: government today. And you could just run down the list,

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Speaker 1: right whether it's some of the personal business dealings, whether

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Speaker 1: we're doing extra judicial killing with Venezuela this, whether these

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Speaker 1: tariffies are illegal. You could just go down the list

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Speaker 1: the end of the day. Swing voters want Congress to

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Speaker 1: be a check on the presidency, especially when it's an

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Speaker 1: unpopular presidency. And this is an unpopular presidency. We know

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Speaker 1: in the base of the Republican Party it's not unpopular,

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Speaker 1: but with swing voters, with the general public, this is

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Speaker 1: not a popular presidency. The single easiest way to win

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Speaker 1: over swing voter is to promise to be a check

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Speaker 1: on the president, on the party in power. And you're

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Speaker 1: able to say that your opponent votes with the president

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Speaker 1: ninety five, ninety six, ninety whatever percent time it is.

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Speaker 1: And if you can go back over the last twenty

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Speaker 1: years and the various times in midterm elections that the

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Speaker 1: House has changed hands or the Senate has changed hands,

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Speaker 1: that ad I just described. Congressman Schmenghi, Senator Schmenghi voted

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Speaker 1: with President fill in the blank, is it Bush? Is

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Speaker 1: it Obama? Is it Trump? Is it Biden? Ninety five

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Speaker 1: percent of the time? Ninety six percent of the time? Shoot,

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Speaker 1: I think I remember seeing one against Susan Collins that

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Speaker 1: said she voted with Trump ninety two percent of the time,

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Speaker 1: which actually was the lowest percentage I think at Betty

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Speaker 1: Republica that had voted with Trump at that first midterm.

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Speaker 1: But the point was anything in the nineties, right, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like a lot and certainly sounds and looks extraordinarily partisan.

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Speaker 1: And by shutting down essentially Congress the way Mike Johnson

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Speaker 1: has done this, not participating in the governance at all,

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Speaker 1: especially at a time when we've seen the executive branch

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Speaker 1: really overstep their traditional authority, the biggest being what's happening

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Speaker 1: right now in Venezuela. I mean, it is extraordinary, the

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Speaker 1: lack of oversight, the lack of insight when it comes

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Speaker 1: to what's happening with the military right now, and Congress

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Speaker 1: is not looking at this at all. And again, Mike Johnson,

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Speaker 1: as I said, so, I do think he has now

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Speaker 1: handed the Democrats a really easy issue to run against

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Speaker 1: Republican incumbents. Now, how many Republican incumbents are vulnerable. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to have the redistricting wars and we'll see

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Speaker 1: how that goes on. But this Republican majority is extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: now looks weaker and weaker every day Mike Johnson doesn't

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Speaker 1: allow them in to go. And you can tell there

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Speaker 1: are rank and file members who realize how newter did

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Speaker 1: they look. I mean, they really do look like their

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Speaker 1: unix here. They have just no interest in participating and

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Speaker 1: governing whatsoever. Mike Johnson, we know why he doesn't want

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Speaker 1: them here. At first, it was strategic, and I think

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Speaker 1: the strategy in the first couple weeks made a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense. You jam the Senate. This is a Senate problem.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to have your guys in here negotiating

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Speaker 1: before you see if the jamming of the Senate Democrats works.

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Speaker 1: After a couple of weeks ago, it was clear that

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be the case. And there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of other issues here and right now, basically, the average

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Speaker 1: House Republican looks like they're out to lunch, that they're

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Speaker 1: just on this extended vacation. Most of them have, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to put out apbs, look up the milk

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Speaker 1: cartons to find out where they are. It's not like

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Speaker 1: many of them are holding town halls to explain what's

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Speaker 1: going on. None of them are here working, and none

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Speaker 1: of them appear to be working in their own districts.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting, you know, you consider here and say,

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Speaker 1: do you give this Democratic strategy credit for this? Maybe

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Speaker 1: if this is how badly Mike Johnson was going to

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Speaker 1: fumble this, But in some ways I think Democrats are

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Speaker 1: being bailed out by the poor leadership of Mike Johnson.

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Speaker 1: And there's are two quotes here that have really jumped

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Speaker 1: out at me that I think will I think this

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Speaker 1: is going to serve as important fodder in the midterm campaigns.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump quoted the New York Times basically admitting how

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Speaker 1: he's marginalized Speaker Mike Johnson. He's quoted as saying, I'm

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Speaker 1: the speaker and the president. My God. Not only is

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Speaker 1: that music to fundraising ears for Democrats to be able

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Speaker 1: to put that out, but to be able to link

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Speaker 1: now every Republican to Donald Trump in that way, there

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Speaker 1: is no separating from Donald Trump if you're in a

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Speaker 1: Republican incumbent. That is just It's never easy as it is,

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Speaker 1: but it is only going to be that much harder now.

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Speaker 1: The question, of course, is the one Trump card pun

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Speaker 1: intended that the Republicans have is if somehow Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: is so much a part of the midterm campaign that

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Speaker 1: it somehow inspires those Trump voters who only show up

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Speaker 1: on Trump's on the ballot to show up in the midterms.

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Speaker 1: I'm reaching, Okay, I don't buy it, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: ruling it out because you can't rule everything out right

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Speaker 1: in a situation like this. But that quote, wow, and

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Speaker 1: then I want to jump on one other quote and

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Speaker 1: it leads me to sort of the longer issue I

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Speaker 1: want to take. I want to focus on the longer dive.

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on James Langford, Republican Senator from Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: He's a astor, one of two pastors I think, James

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Speaker 1: Langford and Rafaeld Warnock. In general. If we had more

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Speaker 1: senators like then, we'd have a pretty functional US Senate.

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Speaker 1: We'd have a pretty functional Congresses. And I think there's

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Speaker 1: something about people that truly live their faith. There's people

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Speaker 1: that wear faith on their sleeves, but they don't actually

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Speaker 1: live their faith. Those are the folks I have no

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Speaker 1: respect for him. Not a very religious person, but those

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Speaker 1: that claim to be religious but don't practice it, to me,

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Speaker 1: are the worst type of people. That's not who James

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Speaker 1: Langford is. Man. This is a serious guy. He's a

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Speaker 1: serious person and I genuinely respect him and think he

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Speaker 1: should be one of the one hundred. But he did

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Speaker 1: cease fire this week. A great new program that my

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Speaker 1: friend Sam Fist, who runs c SPAN, is put together

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Speaker 1: and Dashah Burns, an old colleague mind at NBC, is

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Speaker 1: doing a fine job trying to moderate. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea is to try to have of trying to

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Speaker 1: feature political conversations across the aisle, something that used to

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Speaker 1: happen all the time, and now you sort of have

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Speaker 1: to force them into this neutral territory, which c SPAN

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Speaker 1: is a terrific piece place for neutrality to do this.

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Speaker 1: And he's in a conversation with Chris Coons and they're

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Speaker 1: talking about the issue even as well. And here's James Langford.

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Speaker 1: He basically admitted that partisanship is everything. He said, if

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Speaker 1: this was happening under the Biden administration, I'd be apoplectic

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Speaker 1: talking about essentially the lack of insight and explanation over

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Speaker 1: the legal and intelligence that's being the intelligence that's being

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Speaker 1: used and the legal theories that are being used to

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Speaker 1: defend these extra judicial killings. Again, James Langford said, if

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Speaker 1: this were the Biden administration, I'd be apoplectic. Dude, Come on,

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Speaker 1: welcome to what is wrong with everything in American politics? Right?

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Speaker 1: Everything in American politics is wrapped up in that one quote.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I'm going to take this further and We're

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Speaker 1: going to do an imagination. Okay, we're going to play

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Speaker 1: a little game of political imagination. Imagine just for a moment,

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Speaker 1: that everything we're seeing right now with the Trump presidency, Okay,

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Speaker 1: every business deal, every gift, every extra judicial killing, every

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Speaker 1: public private overlap, we're instead happening under President Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if Biden were the one getting a four hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollar jet from a foreign government. Imagine if Biden's

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Speaker 1: son was launching a mean coin that made millions trading

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Speaker 1: on his father's name. Imagine if the Justice Department had

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Speaker 1: floated paying Joe Biden personally or Hunter Biden personally for

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Speaker 1: lost profits at one of a family businesses. What do

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Speaker 1: you think Congress would be doing? What do you think

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Speaker 1: the House Oversight Committee would do? Would they shrug? Would

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Speaker 1: we or would we already be on week seven of

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Speaker 1: Biden Gate? Would the articles of impeachment be drawn up?

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Speaker 1: Let's be honest, we all know where this movie would go. Subpoenas,

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Speaker 1: we'd have primetime hearings already, There'd be wall to wall

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Speaker 1: graphics on Fox. There'd be a parade of Republican lawmakers

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Speaker 1: warning about the weaponization of government and foreign influence at

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Speaker 1: the highest levels. Because it's Trump, the same actions are

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Speaker 1: either ignored, rationalized, or reframed as savvy business. Again, if

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Speaker 1: this were Biden, perhaps James Langford would be appleplat. There's

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Speaker 1: a reason results matter more than promises, just like there's

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Speaker 1: a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's large injury law firm.

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Speaker 1: For the last thirty five years, they've recovered twenty five

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Speaker 1: billion dollars for more than half a million clients. It

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Speaker 1: includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing, just

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Speaker 1: hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So with more than one thousand lawyers across the country,

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Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

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Speaker 1: you need a lawyer, you need somebody to get your back.

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Speaker 1: Check out for the people dot Com slash podcast or

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Speaker 1: dial Pound Law Pound five to nine law on your

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Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same.

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Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

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Speaker 1: unless they win. So today, let's unpack this double standard.

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Speaker 1: It's not a part ofan exercise. It's a terrific exercise

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Speaker 1: because many on the right always want to say to

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Speaker 1: the press, I've heard this all the time. Insert Biden

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Speaker 1: for Trump or insert Trump for Biden. Right, you guys

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Speaker 1: only get outrage when Trump does it. You don't get

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Speaker 1: outraged enough when Biden doesn't. Some of us, I think,

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Speaker 1: do practice this and just simply let principles hold people account.

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Speaker 1: And I think there are plenty of partisan journalists out

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Speaker 1: there that look the other way. So it's one of

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Speaker 1: those that you get to cherry pick when you're a

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Speaker 1: partisan hack looking to make a point. There's enough idiots

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Speaker 1: out there to cherry pick from to make it look

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Speaker 1: like you're somehow smart and principle. But most of the

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Speaker 1: time people that are making that attack are doing it

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Speaker 1: because they don't want to admit that they would be

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Speaker 1: behaving differently if the names were changed. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to unpack this double standard. It's not, again, not a

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Speaker 1: partisan exercise. This is a civic exercise because this issue

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Speaker 1: of congressional oversight, it's at the core of what our

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Speaker 1: government was supposed to be about. And if we don't

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Speaker 1: have this kind of oversight and check and balance in

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Speaker 1: our system, we are going to go down and take

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Speaker 1: this kleptocracy of a political party that Donald Trumps created

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Speaker 1: right now, and it is going to end up essentially

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Speaker 1: describing the entire our entire country's political framework. So let's

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Speaker 1: start with the jet and the Katari airplane. It's a

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Speaker 1: four hundred million dollars Boeing seven forty seven eight custom

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Speaker 1: built gifted by the government of Katar, ostensibly to the

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Speaker 1: American people, but in practice it's to the sitting President

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Speaker 1: of the United States, Donald Trump, and eventually to the

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Speaker 1: outgoing president of the United States, since it will be

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Speaker 1: a gift to his library. The optics are unbelievable. The

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Speaker 1: ethics are straight out of an emolument's clause law school hypothetical.

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Speaker 1: In fact, if you did this as a law school

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Speaker 1: hypothetical ten years ago, people have said, oh, this would

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Speaker 1: never happen oops under any other presidency. This would be

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Speaker 1: a flashing red light for congressional investigators. A foreign ally

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Speaker 1: kind of foreign ally, right, not even a straightforward foreign ally.

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Speaker 1: Qatar housing the leaders of a moss housing the leaders

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Speaker 1: of the Taliban, But I digress. It's an ally ish

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Speaker 1: But given the president a luxury aircraft, that's exactly the

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Speaker 1: kind of soft influence that our founders had warned about. Now,

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Speaker 1: if Joe Biden had accepted this gift, say from the

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Speaker 1: Amordis or the European Defense Contractor House, Republicans would likely

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Speaker 1: have convened an emergency hearing before the paint on the

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Speaker 1: future Lodge even dried. But under Trump, the Oversight Majority

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Speaker 1: has done nothing, not one subpoena, not one hearing, not

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Speaker 1: one public witness list. In fact, the only lawmakers demanding

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Speaker 1: answers have been on the Democratic Minority. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether to call them principal or not. These people

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Speaker 1: weren't in a hurry to deal with anything on Hunter Biden,

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Speaker 1: but obviously they're jumping on this now. I think they

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Speaker 1: should jump on this, But I also think Republicans should

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Speaker 1: jump on this. And that's what really frustrates me here

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Speaker 1: is that everything now looks like a partisan exercise, but

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Speaker 1: Democratic minority on the committee, led by California's Robert Garcia,

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Speaker 1: along with Jamie Raskin from Judiciary, have been asking questions

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Speaker 1: who paid for, what strings are attached, and why isn't

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Speaker 1: the government's own ethics office involved. By the way, Katar

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Speaker 1: has already gotten a defense agreement, a big security agreement,

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Speaker 1: so that's probably easily worth more than a simple four

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollar airpoint. But it's the same pattern again

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Speaker 1: and again. What would be a crisis under Biden becomes

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Speaker 1: creative diplomacy under Donald Trump. Now, let's move to something

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Speaker 1: that sounds like satire but is not Trump's names and

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Speaker 1: likeness on now literal fake currency the Trump coin and

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Speaker 1: World Liberty financial tokens. World Liberty is the company that

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Speaker 1: was co founded by Trump family and the Witcoff family.

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Speaker 1: These tokens have pulled in hundreds of millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: in trading fees and token sales. Most of those tokens

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Speaker 1: were minted and held by Trump affiliated entities, meaning the

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Speaker 1: Trump family directed lead benefits from speculative trading driven by

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Speaker 1: the president's own political messaging. And we don't know who's

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Speaker 1: we don't always know who's buying these coins. Foreign governments

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Speaker 1: could be doing this influence a way to enrich Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump personally without actually having to pay him money. They

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Speaker 1: buy the coin, raising the value of the coin, raises,

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Speaker 1: raises the value of it, and he never actually technically

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Speaker 1: takes direct cash from said foreign entity. So what if

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Speaker 1: Hunter Biden had tried this a main coin with his

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Speaker 1: father's initials, trading on overseas exchanges, with foreign wallets jumping

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Speaker 1: in and out of the market. Oversight Republicans would be

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Speaker 1: accusing the Bidens of building a global money laundering network.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I believe they did accuse the Bidence of

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Speaker 1: doing this, and Donald Trump did what it had to

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Speaker 1: do with companies that Hunter Biden was trying to do

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Speaker 1: business with in China instead. The Trump with Trump, the

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Speaker 1: GOP line is that he's revolutionizing campaign finance. The hypocrisy

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Speaker 1: is not. So it's systemic because the Modern Oversight Committee

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Speaker 1: under James Comer isn't really functioning as an institutional watchdog anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's just a partisan watchdog. It's a political weapon aimed

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Speaker 1: in one direction, pure and simple. Now, let's move to

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Speaker 1: the two hundred and thirty million dollars Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: settlement that wasn't but almost was. Every taxpayers, Josh should

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Speaker 1: drop over this one that President Trump is directing the

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Speaker 1: Department of Justice to explore paying him two hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty million dollars personally in a settlement for losses his

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Speaker 1: hotels incurred while he was president. Just let it all sink.

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Speaker 1: In a sitting president instructing the government to compensate his

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Speaker 1: private business for revenue. He lost because he had to govern,

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Speaker 1: and it had to do with these lawsuits, right, what

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Speaker 1: was happening. That's how he's trying to justify it. Let

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Speaker 1: it all sink. In a sitting president instructing the government

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Speaker 1: to compensate his private businesses for revenue he lost because

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Speaker 1: of things that a grand jury thought he did. And

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Speaker 1: yet the Oversight Committee, the one that has spent three

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Speaker 1: years combing through the Biden's LLCs and everything that Hunter

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Speaker 1: Biden had been doing, has since said a word. If

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Speaker 1: Biden had done this, if Merrick Carland had floated a

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Speaker 1: settlement with a Biden family business, we'd have already had

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Speaker 1: the impeachment resolutions drafted. Hearing's book witnesses sworn in. We'd

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Speaker 1: have graphics packages titled The Great Biden bailout instead. The

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Speaker 1: oversight Republicans, the same ones who warned endlessly about Hunter

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Speaker 1: Biden's laptop, collectively silent. So let's zoom out. Trump's world

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Speaker 1: isn't just one company. It's an entire ecosystem. He's got hotels,

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Speaker 1: golf courses, a media company, and now cryptocurrency. Every one

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Speaker 1: of those businesses is intertwined with his political brand and

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Speaker 1: his government role. Foreign dignitaries stay at his properties, Political

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Speaker 1: donors hold fundraisers there, political allies. In fact, if you

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Speaker 1: want an endorsement from Trump and you're running for Congress,

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Speaker 1: you better hold a fundraiser at mar Laga or another

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Speaker 1: Trump property. Secret service run rooms from his companies. Money

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Speaker 1: goes into his pocket. We saw it all take place

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Speaker 1: during the first term. Difference now is Trump's back in office.

429
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: He's doing it all again, and this time with a

430
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: lot less pretense and a lot less resistance. If Biden

431
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: were directing State Department delegations to his Delaware beach house,

432
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: airbnbing right charging per night rates to visiting ambassadors, oversight

433
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: would already have subpoened his bank statements. But under Trump,

434
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: those same entanglements are treated as background noise, not red flags.

435
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: Then there's the White House ballroom renovation, financed partly by

436
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: private donors, coordinated through OPAKE nonprofit channels, and awarded to

437
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: contractors who happened to have political connections. If Biden had

438
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: accepted private funds to remodel part of the White House,

439
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: Republicans would be calling it pay to play architecture. They'd

440
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: demand donorless contract bids and receipts. They'd probably be complaining

441
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: that he seemed to fire members of the planning Commission

442
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: and appointing people so that he could just do what

443
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: he wanted to at the White House. Oh wait, Donald

444
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: Trump did all that. But under Trump, of course, it's

445
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: a public private innovation. Hey, private donors are paying. It's

446
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: no different than the German balcony. There's a phrase for

447
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: this in Washington. We call it selective outrage, and it's

448
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: the oxygen of modern oversp. Look with a lot of

449
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: things with Trump, it's not about the idea itself. That's bad.

450
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: Could the White House use a ballroom? Sure? Is there

451
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: room to do it? Absolutely? Is there a procedure to

452
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: do it? Yes? Do you at all behave like you're

453
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: an American? It gives two shits about the history of

454
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: the United States before you just bulldoze a piece of

455
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: the White House. That's all anybody's asking. Nobody's saying it can't.

456
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: How about just doing it the way any other one

457
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: of the three hundred and thirty million Americans would be

458
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 1: expected to do if they wanted to do something like this.

459
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: It's just insulting to all of us. It's insulting to

460
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: everybody that gives a darn at all about history, that

461
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: cares about the United States. It's just such a selfish act,

462
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: and he's trying to make it seem like an unselfish act. Again,

463
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: we can make the case for a ballroom, but my god,

464
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: I fear. I have fear. Here's the other thing I

465
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: don't look. I don't share his taste. I find every

466
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: time I've gone any one of his clubs, they're they're

467
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: they're certainly clean in their neat, but his style comes

468
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: across like someone who uh has never does it, really

469
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: has ever really had nice things, and just thinks that

470
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: in order for something to be nice, you painted gold.

471
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: You know, I imagine if you if you painted my new

472
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: dog's poop gold, it would look better than it did

473
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: if it wasn't pained gold, but I still wouldn't want

474
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: to display it on the walls of my house, or

475
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: the or the White House. Not everything with ornate gold

476
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: makes something look good. So and yet Donald Trump thinks

477
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: his taste is America's taste. You know. Look, we know

478
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: he's a narcissist and on a level that we've never

479
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: experienced before. But some of this stuff is pretty ugly

480
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: that he that he's done. I mean, my god, what

481
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: he's done to the Oval Office. I mean, it looks

482
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: like it reminds me of History of the World Part one,

483
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: when they're when they're in the at Versailles, and just

484
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: sort of the over the top way that the that

485
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: the French royalty looks and behaves. I guess at this

486
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: point I kind of wish Donald Trump were in a

487
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: powdered wig. But let me continue. So where are we

488
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: with oversight? When the Constitution gave Congress power to investigate,

489
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: it wasn't supposed to depend on who was in the

490
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: White House. The purpose was to keep the executive accountable,

491
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: no matter the party. But in twenty twenty five, the

492
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: House Oversight Committee looks more like an opposition research shop

493
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: than a constitutional watchdog. The Republican majority, believe it or not,

494
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: continues to pour resources into investigating the Biden family. That's

495
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: a probe that began in twenty twenty three. It's yet

496
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: to be able to prove significant wrongdoing by the president himself,

497
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: but it's still going. The Democratic minority has been left

498
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: to pick up whatever institutional slack there is. They have

499
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: launched their own letters and inquiries into Trump's businesses, the

500
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: guitar jet, potential conflicts of interest that dwarf anything Hunter

501
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: Biden ever touched. And let me just state this clearly,

502
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: because I has been one of these people. I think

503
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: that what Hunter Biden and Frank Biden did while Biden

504
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: was president was awful. It's said, a terrible president president.

505
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: They both profited off their last name for nothing they did,

506
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: but for what Joe Biden did, for what office Joe

507
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: Biden held, be it the vice presidency of the presidents.

508
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: They're not the first, they're certainly not going to be

509
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: the last, and they're not the most egregious. It is wrong,

510
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: and if you want to hold Donald Trump's corruption against him,

511
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: you better be on your own high ground. And that's

512
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: the problem here. Democrats are not on high ground thanks

513
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: to the Biden family, even though everything Hunter Biden did

514
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: pales in comparison to what the Trumps are doing to

515
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: the American taxpayer. This is how polarization is going to

516
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: corrode the mechanics of accountability. If we get down this

517
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: road where each side only investigates the other's family, no

518
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: one will investigate power itself. And that's what this was

519
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: all supposed to be about. So let's go back to

520
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: this thought experiment. If the Biden family were doing what

521
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: the Trump family is doing right now, if Joe Biden

522
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: were getting a foreign a million dollar jed, or if

523
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: Hunter had launched a mean coin that enriched himself through

524
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: speculative trading, the House Oversight Committee would be holding hearings

525
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: every single week. You'd see subpoenas flying faster than you

526
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: can say influence pedaling. Republicans would be talking about impeachment,

527
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: national security, and the corruption of the at the highest levels.

528
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: We'd probably have graphics titled Crypto Gait and Air Force Hunter.

529
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: But because the last name is Trump, and because the

530
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: House Republicans are in charge and they're so afraid of

531
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, the same behavior as normalized. Instead you get

532
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: things like when Mike Johnson says, well, he's very transparent

533
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: and he tells the American people exactly what he's going

534
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: to do, you might as well, Speaker Johnson say, he

535
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: waves at the security camera as he shoplifts the American taxpayer.

536
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: And here's the part we don't want to admit. This

537
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: is not about Trump. It's about what happens to Congress

538
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: when oversight becomes partisan entertainment instead of institutional discipline. Oversight

539
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: used to be a bit more bipartisan. During Watergate, both

540
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: parties eventually agreed that no president should use public office

541
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: for private game. In the nineties, the Clinton air investigations

542
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: into white Water travel office campaign fundraising were aggressive, mostly partisan,

543
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: but it's and sometimes came across successive but they still

544
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: still operated under a shared understanding that the presidency itself

545
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: was accountable to Congress, and at least those House Republicans

546
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: were trying to broaden things out. That principle is just gone.

547
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: Republicans only investigate Democrats. They've not investigated a Republican. Seriously,

548
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: Democrats have only been investigating Trump. Shoot. They were not

549
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: interested in Epstein while they were in charge, and only

550
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: interested in it when it suddenly became an issue for Trump.

551
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: The public has stopped believing that owners oversight is about truth,

552
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: and why should they Because oversight is about politics, right,

553
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: whoever's got the power of oversight goes after political enemies,

554
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: pure and simple. It is not about right and wrong.

555
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: It is about right and left. That is an erosion

556
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: of trust. And that's the real casualty here. So every

557
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: time oversight becomes partisan theater, real corruption gets normalized. It

558
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: tells future presidents. If your party controls the House, you're untouchable.

559
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: That's why Donald Trump is so desperate to keep the

560
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: House representatives. That's why this redistricting, aggressive redistricting issue is happening.

561
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: If he can hang out of the House, he prevents

562
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: any sort of oversight of his business dealings. But I'll

563
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: tell you this, Democrats get control of the House, they'll

564
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: get subpoena power, and perhaps Trump will just stonewall stonewall stonewall.

565
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: Private business can't stonewall the companies that have essentially decided

566
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: to allow themselves to be shaken down, to be extorted

567
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: to pay to play. All of them, all of them

568
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: are going to have the lawyer up. They're all going

569
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: to be susceptible to suspen us, and they should be.

570
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: They participated in this scan, in this grift. They knew

571
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: better the law was actually on their side. They didn't

572
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: have to participate. If anything, when approached essentially for a

573
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: pay to play or an extortion price, they could have

574
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: gone to them. They could have gone to law enforcement. However,

575
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: what do you do? Do you go to the FBI?

576
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: Does cash Ptel investigate? This is the situation we now

577
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: live in, So Matt, I mean, I don't want to

578
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: say this is like the slight empathy I have for

579
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: the business community on this. If you're being extorted by

580
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: this president, where do you go? Can you go to

581
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: the FBI? Can you go to your local US attorney?

582
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: Can you go to Congress? No? No, and no. I

583
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: think this is bad politics for the Republicans. I think

584
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: what has happened, what Mike Johnson has done by surrendering

585
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: during this government shutdown and disappearing from Washington. We've already

586
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: had this sort of look the other way attitude when

587
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: it comes to all the different things, And all I

588
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: focused on was the personal enrichment issues. I didn't even

589
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: get to the abuse of power as a governing official

590
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: with what's happening with Ice and the mask agents, what's

591
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: happening with Venezuela. All of this is under the purview

592
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: of Congress. They are supposed to be the check of balance.

593
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: They are handing this Republican majority and Speaker Mike job easily.

594
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: Now Mike Johnson is now the weakest speaker we've ever had.

595
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: I thought Mike Johnson was excuse mean, Dennisaster was a

596
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: week speaker. Move over, Dennisaster. There is a new champion

597
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: for weakness. This is the weakest speaker we've had in

598
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: the modern era, and he is now leading his party.

599
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: I think to doom this is politically absolutely, he's self

600
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: neutered the inability to do any of this stuff. They're

601
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: all gonna wish they were doing something to have some

602
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: They're gonna wish someday they tried to hold Trump accountable.

603
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, perhaps November of twenty

604
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: twenty six. So I'm gonna stop there sneaking a quick

605
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: break and after we will talk George orwell, can you

606
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: believe what you're seeing? Will we ever be able to

607
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: believe what we see? Again? And joining me now is

608
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: the director of a film that I have a feeling

609
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: is going to become quite famous here in the United States,

610
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: and is going to become quite famous with anybody talking

611
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: about the issues of democracy and freedom. Author Tarrianism. It

612
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 1: is a documentary about George Orwell. It's called two plus

613
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: two equals five and it was directed by Raoul Peck,

614
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: who joins me now. And Raoul has a tremendous archive

615
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: of terrific both films and documentaries, and as I was

616
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: saying to him earlier, there's essentially as you many of

617
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 1: my listeners know, I'm a huge supporter of documentaries, been

618
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: supporting Documentary Film Festival for shorts. I think they've it's

619
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: the new magazine piece what magazines used to be. I

620
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: think documentary shorts are replacing. But sometimes you get a

621
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: documentarian who's got some great journalism but probably needed a

622
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: couple of classes at film school. That is not the

623
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: case with two plus two equals five. This isn't a film,

624
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: this is art, this is cinema, and this is also

625
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: a documentary. Raoul Peck joins me now, Raoul, it's a

626
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: pleasure to meet you.

627
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me.

628
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 1: So I could say that in some ways you were

629
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: born to do these subject matters. To be born in

630
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: Haiti in the fifties, to be born in a country

631
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: that that they were, Colonialism and authoritarianism seemed to seem

632
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: to be frequent ills that make it very difficult. The

633
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: fact that you tackle topics like this, it feels like

634
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: this is something that you simply grew up ready to do.

635
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: Am I am I overstating things? Well?

636
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 2: In fact, the film came to me. It's it's an

637
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: offer from a Universal executive and my friend Alex Gibney.

638
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,959
Speaker 2: They had total access to all Weyal's body of work,

639
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: and as a filmmaker, this is not something you can

640
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: say no to, you know. And so I knew a

641
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: bit about all well, like what we learn in school

642
00:39:58,680 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 2: animal farm.

643
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

644
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: So I knew that I could do something quite organic,

645
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: that you know, I would find myself into the subject.

646
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: But what I did not anticipate is that it would

647
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: become that antimate you know, politically antimate, personally antimate, and

648
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: of course that my own history would play a part

649
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: in that.

650
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,479
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be surprised that you picked the better word

651
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: to describe the feeling. Intimate is such a terrific description

652
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: of how I felt about it. It does it. It's big,

653
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: but it's small, right it is it is it is accessible.

654
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 2: Well, the idea was again and thank you for the

655
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: introduction about making the difference between you know, journalism and

656
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: filmmaking and documentary filmmaking. In France they use the world

657
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: the word creative documentary. That was genuine, organic, historical you

658
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: know documentary where people would go somewhere for three years

659
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: and make a film, uh, you know, totally immersing themselves.

660
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: So I come more from that tradition. Uh. But but

661
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: again it was important coming from a country like Haiti,

662
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: you know, where you somehow almost sensitive to to the

663
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 2: kind of you know, when power is starting doing stuff

664
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: that they're not supposed to do, you know. And and

665
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: and that's that felt very clearly alarming to people like me,

666
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: you know, or any person who grew up in Latin

667
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 2: America or in Africa. You know, we we know the science.

668
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: And in the US, unfortunately a lot of people convinced

669
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: that the democracy is so solid that they don't pay

670
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 2: as much attention to.

671
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: That it is. This is a it happens all the time.

672
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: It sometimes takes an outsider to explain our explain ourselves

673
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: to us. I mean, one could argue it was a

674
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: Frenchman one hundred years ago, one hundred and forty years ago,

675
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: with democracy in America who understood the power of our

676
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: democracy better than we did at the time. I mean,

677
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: to Tookfola's to this day, it's it feels his analysis

678
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: feels fresh. So what I found, obviously what made it's interesting.

679
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 1: You said, Alex Gibney came to you. I can't believe

680
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: he said he didn't want this for himself. Were you surprised?

681
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: No, you know, first of all, Alex have enough to do.

682
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: That's true. I just had him on there, I had

683
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: him on here. He did it. He is the only

684
00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: person that has made campaign finance issues compelling filmmaking. I mean,

685
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: he's very good.

686
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: Call Enron, you know, Wall Street or big money in

687
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: a way that you know, you really understand what he's

688
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: talking about. No, I think Alex was not that much.

689
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: In fact, his response to Johnny Fewings from Universal was,

690
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: you know, because they came to him as a producer, okay,

691
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: and and he say, well, if Raoul Pecky is a director,

692
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: I will do it. And and that's how he you know,

693
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: he called me u. He said yes, without even asking

694
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: me first. But he knew I would go for it.

695
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: He already said yes. And by the way, Raoul, I've

696
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: got a new project for you, right, that's funny. That's funny.

697
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: You talk about a double endorsement for someone like me

698
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: Alex Giving and you this is this is uh, you know,

699
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: you've got gold here. Yes.

700
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: No, and and with all well, we knew that we

701
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 2: would be in the middle of what is happening right

702
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: now in this country. And but also you know, bear

703
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: in mind that when I started writing about the project

704
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 2: and putting up we were still convinced that Kamala Harris

705
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 2: was going to become president.

706
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, so because would this film not have been

707
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: released in Harris One?

708
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 2: Say it again?

709
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: Would you have released this film had Harris one?

710
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, it would have has been as important for me.

711
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 3: You know that That's the thing you know again, Uh,

712
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: my big problem with this old issue is that we

713
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: concentrate on on President Trump as being of course it's

714
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 3: it's you know, nobody would have expected that democracy or

715
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 3: a semblance of democracy would go that far. You know,

716
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 3: in America, all the rules would explode, that all the

717
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 3: you know, the bulwark, you know, whether.

718
00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: It's Congress, Justice Department, uh CIA, FBI. You know, all

719
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: those institutions that supposedly are there to protect us and democracy,

720
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: even though they didn't always regarding countries like Haiti and

721
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: all the places. But again for us, when you come

722
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: from abroad, from another continent, your relationship with American democracy

723
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: is at best bias. You know, when I remember when

724
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: I was a young boy, I never could understand the

725
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: dichotomy of a US president talking about freedom, freedom of

726
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 2: the press, freedom, you know, Abbias, corpus and all those

727
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 2: great democratic terms when they were supported supporting dictatorship in

728
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: my country. You know, So I grew up the constructing

729
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: that she'sophrenic double language. So I knew double speak before

730
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: you know, I met all you know, and that's this

731
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: thing that many countries outside the United States have no

732
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 2: difficulty understanding the contradiction of the system itself. So all

733
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: Well goes at the bottom of that. You know, he

734
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 2: analyzed the whole metrics, the whole system, the whole toolbox,

735
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 2: and that is, you know, all his an important instrument

736
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: to have to analyze what's going on in your country.

737
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: Well, when you look at Orwell's past, I mean here

738
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: he is in is you talk about that dichotomy of

739
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: the United States and then yet we support dictators in Haiti. Well,

740
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: it feels like that was a constant in the letters,

741
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: and this comes through in the letters that he sends

742
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: to both his wife and son. The contradiction of the

743
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: British with India, right, you know, being colonial at the

744
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: same time they wanted to be democratic, you know, and

745
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: that contradiction obviously inspired or Well and in some ways

746
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: it is what probably made you the perfect the perfect Curias.

747
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: Well, indeed, you know what I thanksfully got very early

748
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: in the in the process, is that I understood what

749
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: it meant for somebody like oh Well to go first

750
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 2: of all, to be born in India because his father

751
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: was a military man in India, so he got the

752
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: air of another place, he got, you know, and it

753
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: is a reason also we can understand why at nineteen

754
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 2: instead of going to Cambridge or to Oxford, because he

755
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 2: had finished his study at Eton, you know, the upscale,

756
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: you know, you know, Ivy League school, and he didn't

757
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 2: go there but choose to join the police in Burma,

758
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: in Meyama, you know, so you can see there is

759
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: a you know, a will to go elsewhere to discover

760
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 2: something else, and there is a sort of even something mentality.

761
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: Of course, he would realize very quickly that well, he's

762
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: basically a policeman in a colonial regime, and he went

763
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 2: to write about it in a time where you know,

764
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: I would say, the mainstream thinking was colonialism is totally normal.

765
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: You know, most Africa was still under colony in the

766
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 2: in the thirties, and the same Latin America were either

767
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: colonized or on the dictatorships.

768
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: You know, in the Middle East as well, was still

769
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: under some colonialism.

770
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 2: So for him to write so sincerely, so transparently about

771
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: what he did as a policeman in in in Burma,

772
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: is an incredible act of contrition, you know. And and

773
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 2: that closed him, uh, you know, brought him closer to

774
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: me somehow, and and I and I felt there is

775
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: a sort of confidence and and and you know, you know,

776
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: I I thought that his way of thinking, you know,

777
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 2: was much more closer to me than I taught originally.

778
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: So you had the material is obviously the most important material.

779
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: And you I take it, were the letters correct?

780
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: Well, I use everything somehow, sometimes it was just for

781
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: one little sentence, but I I went but the basis

782
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: was the essays Why I write, which is, you know,

783
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 2: an essay that the magazine asked him to ask nine

784
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: different British writers to to write about, you know, their writing,

785
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 2: why they are writing basically. And all L did something

786
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: incredible is really he he dig He dug down deep,

787
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 2: you know, into his process and and the basis, you know,

788
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: to see you basically seeing the inspiration, the motivation, the

789
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: very intimate internal motivation for him to be as a writer,

790
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: and he analyzed it in a very candid and political

791
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: way as well. So that was the backbone of the

792
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 2: story I wanted to tell you know, and again maybe

793
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: what you need to know is that I didn't just

794
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: plunge into such a story. I would have been totally

795
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 2: lost after a while because it's it's a lot of

796
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 2: archive and and and writing. So I knew I had

797
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: to choose the men's story. And the man's story for

798
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: me was all well in the last of his life,

799
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 2: struggling to finish nineteen eighty four and not knowing that

800
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: he will be able to achieve it. You know, he's

801
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 2: sake of tuberculosis. He's in and out of sanatoriums and hospitals,

802
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 2: and he's in a very bad shape. So for me,

803
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: that was the perfect dramatic storyline that then allows me

804
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 2: to go go everywhere else in his body of work

805
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: to add the layers.

806
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: So look, what I found interesting is you had archival footage,

807
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: you had news clips, you had movie clips, and did

808
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: you I thought you also had reenactments?

809
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 2: Correct, No, but I use a lot of graphic that

810
00:51:55,200 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 2: we design ourselves. No, in this particular film, we news reenactment.

811
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: Okay, the one place where I thought you might have

812
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 1: was during the Spanish Civil War.

813
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 2: That that was a clip. No, they were a clip

814
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 2: of ken Loach films, you know about the Spanish War.

815
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 2: And no, but we we know we basically play sometimes

816
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 2: with the photos. But no, I did a lot of

817
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: reenactment in my previous film, Exterminate all the Roots. But

818
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 2: again no, here it was different, and I use I

819
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 2: mean that's something I always did in my film because

820
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 2: you know, as a black person from Haiti, you know,

821
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 2: we we were absent from film history for a long time.

822
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: So in order to make historical film, I have to

823
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 2: use others material and I learned how to use it.

824
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: I learned to deconstruct before using it. And it's a

825
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 2: matter of you know what you choose exactly because you

826
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 2: want to. You know, that example of the photo in

827
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 2: the film with all well as a baby with the nanny.

828
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: Why this photo is so impactful for me because the

829
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 2: nanny is looking at the camera directly, and that creates

830
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: a totally different relationship. She's human, She's not you know,

831
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: just a victim or an object, you know, she's you know,

832
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: looking at the camera gives her you know, a standing,

833
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 2: you know, I exist. And so I learned to make

834
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 2: those choices, you know, and and to reconstitute my own anthology,

835
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 2: my own you know, filmography, you know, and use choosing

836
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 2: the idea of choosing everything that makes the film more accurate,

837
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 2: more stronger, you know again I mean from Haiti Oh well,

838
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 2: you know, we have great sculptures that use you know,

839
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 2: everything from Robert tires and wood and motor oil, et

840
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: cetera to make incredible sculpture. I think that's maybe something

841
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 2: we learned to do, is to create a new opp

842
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 2: with all sort of material.

843
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: You know. Another way this could have gone is you

844
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: could have been approached to do a new interpretation of

845
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four and turn it into a movie. So

846
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 1: two questions for you. One, was that an approach you

847
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: had ever considered? In two, how well do you think

848
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: the movie version has held up? And does it need

849
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: to be remade?

850
00:54:55,080 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it was clear that when you

851
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 2: get access to the total body of work of a writer,

852
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 2: you know, and this is something that never happened the

853
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 2: girl who can buy the rites of a book or

854
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 2: sometimes even a chapter, you know.

855
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 1: So the way I would say, you know, IP is

856
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: like such the right IP is this coin of the

857
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: realm these days in any sort of project, whether fiction

858
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: or nonfiction. And you had a lot of IP here, right.

859
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So I would never say, oh, I'll take

860
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 2: this little piece. Yeah, you know. No, And and you

861
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 2: know it's a sort of I didn't want to do

862
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:42,280
Speaker 2: a biography, so but I wanted to make a film

863
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 2: a story. But at the same time, the riches of

864
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 2: this body of work is what what will enrich that movie.

865
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty four was just one of it.

866
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: But I could also play with the at least four

867
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: different filming of nineteen eighty four, which also gave the

868
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 2: film and another dimension, you know, because you see how

869
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: different generation dealt with the novel. And to your question,

870
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 2: I think the last one is the most frightening one

871
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 2: because it seems closer to us, you know, in terms

872
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: of the time. It was shot in nineteen eighty four,

873
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 2: it came out in nineteen eighty four, and with incredible actors,

874
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 2: you know, John Hart, Richard Burton. But I knew as

875
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: well visually it would be an important part of the film.

876
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 4: But don't forget the idea that people have of all well,

877
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 4: is that he's a dystopian writer, you know, writing about

878
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 4: the future, almost like.

879
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: The most pessimist, right, the most pessimistic version of the future. Yeah.

880
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then but it was never about that. It

881
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 2: was about something he went through himself, right, It was

882
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 2: he was just giving us, in the in the form

883
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 2: of a novel, his own fight throughout you know, authoritarian.

884
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: He was writing about the president. He wasn't writing about

885
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: the future. He was writing about the protects exactly.

886
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 2: So that was it's still so current because he went

887
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: to the ground of to the bottom of it, you know.

888
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 2: So it's it's that's why it's still so accurate, you know.

889
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: And and he was warning us, which is totally different.

890
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: You know, he was warning us what can happen if

891
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: we don't pay attention, because that that's how it happened.

892
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: And ultimately, I take it that's the way you want

893
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: this film to be received as a warning.

894
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it was like to put the mirror in front

895
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: of all of us and to see that, you know,

896
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: the king is naked, and and and it's not the

897
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 2: first time that that we have a king, naked king

898
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 2: in front of us. And we should learn to to

899
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: to decipher it. We should learn to to find ways

900
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 2: to fight it, you know. And and because that's the thing.

901
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: It never comes like one big moment, you know that

902
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 2: that's an illusion. It's it's comes by little things. And

903
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: those little things, by the way, they didn't start with

904
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 2: Trump administrations, you know, even the first one.

905
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: You know, well, that's the point you seem to want

906
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: to make. You It's interesting when you, first of all,

907
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: you travel the world and of different places that have

908
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: essentially lost freedom, right and and and I really appreciate

909
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: how you do that. But it feels like with the

910
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: American story, you start with the Iraq war and h

911
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: and the lies behind that.

912
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 2: By example, it's that it's basically President Bush making a

913
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 2: speech about the bad guys in Iraq. You know, raping woman,

914
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: destroying men. You know, even the voice it's it's airy

915
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: in resemblance, you know. And and then you you can say,

916
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: oh my god, that they were basically pushing us, you know,

917
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: painting a picture. Not to say that Sadam Mussen was

918
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 2: a nice guys, that's what not saying. But it was

919
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: about going to war, you know. And and you know,

920
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 2: there was a time the word propaganda was perfectly accepted word,

921
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: you know, and that was exactly what it is.

922
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: That's what we did in World War two. People forget

923
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: you have the United States.

924
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to prepare the public opinion to go

925
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: to war and to send their their kids to to

926
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 2: get killed. And I was, so it's not new.

927
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: What I what I also appreciate about what you did

928
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: because this is something that I think in this country

929
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: we're struck where too many people are are almost get

930
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: security by thinking that authoritarianism is only a potential for

931
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: the quote other side politically, you know, they're the ones

932
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: that are What you do in this film is you

933
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 1: move around the world and show how regardless of whether

934
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: this is left wing authoritarianism or right wing authoritarianism, the

935
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: path towards those moments are eerily similar.

936
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and again the toolbox is always the same.

937
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 2: It's it's stopped with the words, with language, you know.

938
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 2: Always as an incredible sentence for that, he said, the

939
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 2: degradition of language is the condition for the degradition of democracy.

940
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 2: So it always stopped there. It always starts with laws,

941
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 2: you know, because it's the state doing the work, you know,

942
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 2: So there is always the need to have some sort

943
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 2: of leverage, some sort of legal acceptance. So it's not

944
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 2: by law. Genocides always thought by new decree about quotas,

945
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 2: about this, you know, that sort of citizens, that kind

946
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 2: of citizen, or you know, out of the you know,

947
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 2: of the country, et cetera. So it's always a set

948
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: of rules. It's always a reappropriation of history to build

949
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 2: your own set of history.

950
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: Yes, the building of remaking history, that's another thing. Whether

951
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: it's now, whether it's putin, whether it's Trump right, like

952
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: changing what you know, changing history and the.

953
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 2: Notion of and fireability. You know, you're always right, you know,

954
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 2: even though we have proved that what you're saying, no,

955
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 2: it was not five hundred thousand people in your inauguration.

956
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 2: We have the pictures and you say, no, the pictures

957
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 2: are totally fake, et cetera. So you know, it's something

958
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 2: that in fact, you can't really argue it, you know,

959
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 2: and they get you confused, and the confusion is what

960
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 2: they want to do to come.

961
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: To well, right, because it goes to this and I

962
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: feel this when I'm in the Middle East, and I

963
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: certainly have felt this when I've been to Moscow, although

964
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: I haven't been recently, but when you felt I don't

965
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: know if I would feel safe in Moscow right now.

966
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: But in general, when you talk to people, they'll say,

967
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: I don't know who to believe or what to believe

968
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: when you are in these places that have totally eroded

969
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: the media or totally eroded freedom of the part us.

970
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the key toolbox as well. You

971
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,479
Speaker 2: know that you you you don't know what words to use.

972
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 2: You don't know what they means anymore, you don't know

973
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 2: which word is dangerous or not.

974
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: They're not trying to convince you to believe this other thing.

975
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: They simply don't want you to believe anything. Yeah.

976
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,479
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the ultimate goal. That's the ultimate goal

977
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 2: they confuse you to, you know, to come up with

978
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: the phrase alternative facts.

979
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean that that's a strong one. Literally, yes, that's that's.

980
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 2: That's the definition of it, you know. So and but

981
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 2: one thing, maybe that's the first time I'm going to

982
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: speak about it because I want to write something about it.

983
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 2: It's it's the idea of you know, rhetoric, you know,

984
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 2: and that's the role of the press as well. You know,

985
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 2: the fact that once you start talking or using the

986
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 2: word that that group of people start putting in in

987
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 2: you know, in the in the opening, and you start,

988
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 2: even if you want to contract contradict it, the mayor

989
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: fact that you engage with it, you basically are accepting it.

990
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: Well, take the phrase fake news. This actually began with

991
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,959
Speaker 1: journalists going no, no, no, no, that's that's not real news.

992
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: That's fake news. And what does Trump do co opse

993
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: the language? Yeah, I'll tell you who the fake news is.

994
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: You're the fake news. And there and that works.

995
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 2: He accused anybody of what he himself did.

996
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: Projection.

997
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 2: You can't understand anything, you know. Imagine you know, a

998
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: normal citizen, you know, trying to follow the news. At

999
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 2: one point he can't follow anymore.

1000
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: The confusion is the point.

1001
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, so yeah, so the

1002
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 5: you know, who would think that the US government administration

1003
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 5: would just decide that there is a number of words

1004
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,439
Speaker 5: that you're not supposed to use anymore and take them

1005
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 5: out of any website, government website.

1006
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I doubt you're you know when you put

1007
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: it like that, because that's exactly what's happened with quote

1008
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: d the you know, sort of ridding the government of

1009
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: quote unquote DEI. And you're right, it's like search and

1010
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: replace words and literally, you know. It's funny about this,

1011
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: Proul is that I've worked with some universities who are

1012
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: basically trying to not be targets of the Trump administration.

1013
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: So you know what they're doing, literally searching for words

1014
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: and phrases on their own websites and going get rid

1015
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: of it. So everybody's participating. Now, So he won.

1016
01:05:56,120 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 2: You won already, because that's what rhetor teach you that

1017
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 2: you know, as soon as you engage, you cut, you're caught.

1018
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: You you're you're you've allowed it to You've allowed them

1019
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: to get alive. You accepted the premise, Yes.

1020
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 2: Yes, so you you're weaker, you know so. And again

1021
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 2: Trump brought it to a really extremely explosive twine because

1022
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 2: like we are totally out of any sort of control.

1023
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 2: But you know, I remember Bill Clinton saying something. I

1024
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: remember I did a film under the genocide of Rwanda,

1025
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 2: and I remember the spokeperson for Clinton trying to wriggle

1026
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 2: herself out of the definition of what the genocide is, right,

1027
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 2: and the journalist was trying, yes, but you just say

1028
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 2: that and that's exactly what he's happened. And then she

1029
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 2: would say, yes, but the definition of genocide is and

1030
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 2: the judaist would say, well, that's exactly what is happening.

1031
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 2: So it goes on and on. So you could see

1032
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: that they knew what words means and they have to

1033
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 2: make you believe that, you know, the words are not

1034
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 2: what they say, you know, and so during Clinton we

1035
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 2: could say yes, but there was still institutions. There was

1036
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 2: still but you know, this kind of thing, they go

1037
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: very quickly, and when the civil society is start accepting

1038
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 2: certain things, it can reproduce itself.

1039
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, there's a powerlessness that I sometimes feel

1040
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: about this, because you know, one of the things that

1041
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: today's journalists aren't fully appreciative of is that we don't

1042
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: control our own distribution. Only a handful of people or

1043
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: a handful of political excuse me, a handful of computer

1044
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: programs helped control distribution, right we have. You know, it's

1045
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: just three or four big tech companies that account for

1046
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: the ability to you know, get ninety percent of words

1047
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 1: or pictures out there. Or even if you're an independent journalist,

1048
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: you're more likely to be on one of only two

1049
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: platforms in this country, Google's YouTube or sub stack. Well,

1050
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 1: I mean what if they you know that that's a

1051
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: dangerous place to be. And frankly, I'm curious, are you

1052
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: having trouble distributing this film in this country?

1053
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 2: Well, we were lucky because one of our first investors

1054
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:49,759
Speaker 2: was Nail, the big distributing company who you know, saw

1055
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 2: you know what kind of film that could be and

1056
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 2: was on board. So they bugged the film like four

1057
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 2: years ago. So we knew that we would have a

1058
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: theatrical distribution. And that was the idea of this film

1059
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 2: from the first image. I knew that I wanted the

1060
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 2: big screen, not something for for TV. It was yeah,

1061
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 2: and and and also even you know, to fill in

1062
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 2: a room with other people, to have that experience, to

1063
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 2: be totally immersed with all. Well, because that's what that's

1064
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 2: a performance. Damian Lewis, who is doing the voice, is

1065
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 2: not a narrator. He is all, well, you are with him.

1066
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 2: You you can feel his the way you know, his respiration,

1067
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 2: et cetera. So it's an immersion in always work in

1068
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 2: his period. And and and he's talking to us like

1069
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 2: an old sage who's going to die. But he's telling

1070
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 2: us his most you know, important wisdom, you know, and

1071
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 2: and that you can only have that in in the

1072
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 2: big dock room and with other people with you.

1073
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: So you feel pretty good that this will this will

1074
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: get good circulation, This will be streaming. We are in

1075
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: mainstream platforms, okay.

1076
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 2: We are in seventy markets already with third weeks. And

1077
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 2: we are you know, uh, you know, having the best

1078
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:24,679
Speaker 2: record for a documentary film, which I don't know whether

1079
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 2: that's good or bad, right, I always say that that right,

1080
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 2: that's it's good for you.

1081
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 1: But it's also there's a lot of us who are like, hey,

1082
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 1: this this feels like a necessity in the moment.

1083
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 2: Yes, and and I could you know, I did a

1084
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,680
Speaker 2: lot of Q and A in in New York, in

1085
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 2: LA in UH, in Chicago and San Francisco, so uh

1086
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 2: and in other countries in the UK. So you can

1087
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 2: see how the people, you know, needed something like this

1088
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 2: because it allows them to put words and what they

1089
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 2: are feeling, to see some explanation. And it's like describing

1090
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 2: a lot of things you have been feeling all those

1091
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 2: last years that you can not really because there is

1092
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:18,640
Speaker 2: a whole sort of confusion as well, you know, and

1093
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:23,799
Speaker 2: you are being bombarded every day with images, with breaking news,

1094
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,719
Speaker 2: with this and that nobody can I mean journalists can

1095
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 2: hardly keep up with this. So you may imagine a

1096
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:32,759
Speaker 2: general audience.

1097
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:38,840
Speaker 1: So our biggest problem is people tuning out right now. Yeah,

1098
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 1: that's the biggest difference between the first Trump term and

1099
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: the second Trump term is the passivity.

1100
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we are I understand that completely. And but

1101
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 2: at the same time, when people ask you, you know,

1102
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 2: how are you hopeful or you know, I say, well,

1103
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 2: it will depend on you because history will not wait

1104
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,720
Speaker 2: for you. You will end up with something that eventually you

1105
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 2: didn't want and you have no complication in it, You

1106
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 2: have no not the words to say to it. So

1107
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 2: that's you know, we we take democracy for granted, we

1108
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 2: take you know, freedom of speech for the granted. And

1109
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:26,120
Speaker 2: and you know, coming from countries that have had dictatorship.

1110
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 2: We know that something it is something you have to

1111
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 2: fight for, you know, every day it's not you know,

1112
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 2: you can't just let it slow for one day, another day,

1113
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 2: another week, and no, each time you let it, you

1114
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 2: let something pass. It's a destruction, you know, and it's

1115
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 2: going to be harder later to correct it, you know,

1116
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 2: because people get used to to certain behaviors.

1117
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: You know, So I still try to. You know, when

1118
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: I get asked the question about how vulnerable our democracy is,

1119
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,719
Speaker 1: I do say that, you know, our voters, the voters

1120
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 1: figured about eventually. The question is you know, how quickly?

1121
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: And it's never as fast as you want. But I

1122
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,799
Speaker 1: ground myself in that sort of maybe it's a belief,

1123
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a hope, you know that that we've we

1124
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: got close before in history and we've always avoided this

1125
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 1: and there's still there's still plenty of time to avoid it.

1126
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 2: But well, I think you you too quick on that.

1127
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,759
Speaker 2: You know, the last election, if if vice president parents

1128
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 2: would have decided otherwise.

1129
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 1: We don't know where where would.

1130
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 2: We electoral executive would have said.

1131
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 1: Yes, one person I will one person behaving differently could

1132
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 1: have totally changed history.

1133
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 2: Votes you know, and then that's it, and then we

1134
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 2: don't know how fight would go, but we know that

1135
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,720
Speaker 2: each time is because.

1136
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: Somebody were one step closer. That's right.

1137
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 2: No, that's not correct. I will not do it.

1138
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:20,839
Speaker 1: But where I do feel really pessimistic is really happened

1139
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 1: in the last three or four weeks, and it is

1140
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,719
Speaker 1: a It was the debut of a new tool called Sora,

1141
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: the ability to make images right AI images. We are

1142
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,719
Speaker 1: already at the point on social media. We were there

1143
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:43,640
Speaker 1: basically there already, but now whatever you see you're not

1144
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 1: going to believe now online all of it. I you know,

1145
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 1: you have to question everything. And as I joke, I

1146
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: have older eyes, and I'll see people say, well, this

1147
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:56,120
Speaker 1: is obviously made by AI, and I'm sitting there going

1148
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:00,000
Speaker 1: really uh oh if I can't see it, I feel

1149
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: already as if I'm in trouble the fact this is

1150
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 1: coming out. I feel like your film's coming out. You're

1151
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,719
Speaker 1: making you made it before this explosion of AI imagery,

1152
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: which is just going to transform visual honesty for the

1153
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: for the rest of our lifetime.

1154
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 2: At the same time, yeah, we need to know history.

1155
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 2: You know, first of all, that's not the first time

1156
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 2: that even in the United States, that the whole press

1157
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 2: I've been captive of a few billionaires. That happened in

1158
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 2: the beginning of the twentieth century.

1159
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:42,799
Speaker 1: No, it's where it's weirdly how why I have hope

1160
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 1: because we did it once and we broke away right, Yes,

1161
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: and that's those circles.

1162
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 2: Come again and again because we live in the same

1163
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 2: kind of capitalistic society. That is where technology, unfortunately is

1164
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 2: moved by profit. You know, we discover were new tools

1165
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 2: and these tools. As soon as it gets into business hands,

1166
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:10,639
Speaker 2: you you get into a totally irrational world where where

1167
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 2: it's about making profit. I remind you that a few

1168
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 2: years back, there was even last year, I think there

1169
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 2: was a common decision of all the people working General

1170
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 2: Rating AI who said we need a pause. I know,

1171
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember that I do, and

1172
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 2: nobody a month there was a gold rush and they

1173
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 2: lost all barriers, they lost all ethic and it was

1174
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 2: So the problem is not the technology itself. The problem

1175
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 2: is regulation. It's rules. Is that somebody say no, you're

1176
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 2: not you cannot just and you know, use something to

1177
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 2: make money, no matter what the the damage it will

1178
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 2: cost to a societ. You know, and that way of

1179
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 2: thinking has it's the only way you can stop this.

1180
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: But you can't just say, oh, we are lost the

1181
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 2: technology it's out there. No, at one point, that's why

1182
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 2: your society is there. At one point you say it's

1183
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 2: doing too much damage. We're gonna regulate it, you know,

1184
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 2: the same way you regulate drugs, you try to regulate weapons.

1185
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:29,719
Speaker 2: We still could do better, but that's that's the clear path,

1186
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:34,640
Speaker 2: you know. So, yes, it's it's crazy, it's it's uh,

1187
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 2: you know it's saying you know, it's it's fear. It

1188
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 2: brings a lot of fear. But you know, we shouldn't

1189
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 2: just feel that we can't do anything. Yes, we of

1190
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:46,639
Speaker 2: course we can do something about it.

1191
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: No, I'm I I sort of my weird optimism on

1192
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,879
Speaker 1: on the that if we don't trust anything we see online,

1193
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 1: maybe that'll get us to leave our house and go

1194
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: actually have real people experiences, sit in a movie theater

1195
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: and absorb a documentary like this that that actually we

1196
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: will crave the more artificial life is online, the more

1197
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 1: as a species we will create, we will crave the

1198
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:19,680
Speaker 1: human touch. We don't want this artificialness. Yeah, and I

1199
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: think that's.

1200
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 2: What happened you can see that by you know, like

1201
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 2: the thing like the demonstration, uh on no king right.

1202
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:35,080
Speaker 2: Besides the eventual political repercussion, I think for most people

1203
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 2: it was a moment to fill other people with them

1204
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 2: in the streets.

1205
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: Right, I feel heard?

1206
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:40,719
Speaker 2: I'm alone?

1207
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, you want to you want to know that

1208
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:45,639
Speaker 1: you're am I the only? Am I the crazy one here?

1209
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 1: Or is everybody else? Right? You know it's that feeling

1210
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 1: on that Well. I hope every university campus this feels

1211
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 1: like you know, if I was, if if I was,

1212
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 1: my son's a freshman in college, my daughter's a senior

1213
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 1: in college, I would want to see me make sure

1214
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:05,759
Speaker 1: that this film showed up on a college, my son's

1215
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: college campus.

1216
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 2: Right that they already have a lot of demands. Yeah,

1217
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 2: And I went to I went to Yale. I went

1218
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 2: to Columbia and a discussion Q and A is with

1219
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 2: students and and remember one at Yale who was you know,

1220
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 2: used the film to tell, you know, in the whole room,

1221
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 2: you know, uh that apparently there is a new rule

1222
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 2: at Yale that, uh, the university should stay not neutral

1223
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 2: on politically right, and and.

1224
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 1: So you don't know what neutrality looks like anymore. Who

1225
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 1: just well, I always go to this. I mean, you know,

1226
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 1: media critics will say, hey, you're a partisan, and I'll say, well,

1227
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:50,640
Speaker 1: a partisan accusing somebody else of being a partisan? You know,

1228
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 1: you you it's that's a very sub I don't trust

1229
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 1: a partisan to decide what's neutral, right, they don't have

1230
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:00,560
Speaker 1: that ability. But in fairness, who's neutral anymore?

1231
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 2: Right?

1232
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:01,360
Speaker 1: The way?

1233
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1234
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:04,640
Speaker 1: You know? Right? What is neutrality?

1235
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 2: And what all we'll say is that the very you know,

1236
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 2: to say that you're neutral is a political position. You know,

1237
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 2: there is not just a thing of neutrality. And that's

1238
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 2: why sometimes the press also wants to become a sort

1239
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 2: of arbitrary and forget that they are also citizens that

1240
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 2: they have also to take a stand. You know, there

1241
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 2: is a I would say, a bottom line of democracy

1242
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:34,759
Speaker 2: before you go into any political fight. We should agree

1243
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 2: on that bottom line. You know, how do we speak

1244
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 2: with another? What is the true? What is you know untrue?

1245
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 2: What is science? What is law? What is illegal? Those

1246
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 2: bottom lines? You know, anyone, whether you're on Fox or

1247
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 2: you on CNN, you should agree on that. But now

1248
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 2: those things are totally make and opinion becomes something almost rational,

1249
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 2: you know, sen when opinion is opinion. You you are

1250
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,640
Speaker 2: the only one defending that, you know, unless you bring arguments.

1251
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 2: But unfortunately that's not the case. Anybody can you know,

1252
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 2: the guy who spent ten hours on the endternet can

1253
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 2: have the guy who spent forty years on the same subject,

1254
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 2: and he can come to his face and say, you know,

1255
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 2: what you've been doing is bullshit. Uh, you know, and

1256
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 2: that is accepted today. And and that's that's Yeah, that's

1257
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 2: a very very weird situation right now. And I'm not

1258
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 2: sure that we will be able to bring the pace

1259
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,839
Speaker 2: in the tube easily.

1260
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 1: No, it's gonna this is generational. This is going to

1261
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:48,639
Speaker 1: take a generation. And and and you know, we've had it.

1262
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 1: You know, if we don't.

1263
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 2: If we don't go through worse, I mean, we forget that.

1264
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 2: It's a very violent country, you know, we that's a

1265
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 2: loss of violent world, you know, and that world you know,

1266
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 2: the rest of the world have been in violent violence

1267
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 2: for quite a while, but we've been shielded from Europe

1268
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:13,200
Speaker 2: is a little bit protected. But now there is no

1269
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:17,560
Speaker 2: safe place. And if you are destroying all the bulwark

1270
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 2: of your democracy, what you were you know, like abioscopus,

1271
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:24,719
Speaker 2: like you can't be arrested for no reason like that.

1272
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:28,760
Speaker 2: You know, all this don't exist anymore, because that's the thing.

1273
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 2: Some people think that because you're chasing Latinos in the

1274
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 2: streets that it will stop at that. Never, it's never

1275
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,679
Speaker 2: the case. They will, you know, go up and after

1276
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 2: a while it would be anybody who to say something

1277
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 2: who is not Mega.

1278
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 1: Well, there's the great great poem first day limit to that.

1279
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 1: First they came for the migrants, and I didn't say anything.

1280
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 1: Then they came for you, right, and then they came

1281
01:22:55,200 --> 01:23:00,200
Speaker 1: for me right exactly. Let me let me close with

1282
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: what I've just viewed as just a historic tragedy that

1283
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 1: is Haiti. This is an incredible culture. I love. I

1284
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:14,719
Speaker 1: grown up in Miami just getting pieces of the Haitian culture,

1285
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,679
Speaker 1: whether in art, music, and food. It's an amazing culture.

1286
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 1: And I want to I always start my question this

1287
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: way when it comes to how is this island of

1288
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 1: Hispaniola so divided? I know it's physically divided by this

1289
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:32,800
Speaker 1: mountain range, but the Dominican Republic is so you know,

1290
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:36,080
Speaker 1: the stability of the Dominican Republic versus the instability of Haiti.

1291
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:38,840
Speaker 1: What's your explanation.

1292
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,760
Speaker 2: It's because we have two different history. Don't forget in

1293
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:49,759
Speaker 2: eighteen two to saluverture have had both sides of the island.

1294
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 2: Despite a refusal from Napoleon, he had won all the war.

1295
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 1: He won the war.

1296
01:23:56,240 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 2: Against the Spanish, against the French, against the British, and

1297
01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 2: he decided to reorganize the whole island. Why do you

1298
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 2: think today the Napoleon code is still the code in

1299
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 2: the Dominican Republic. To Sun was the first head of

1300
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 2: state to give a structure in the Dominican Republic. But

1301
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 2: the difference is that we paid a huge price for

1302
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 2: our independence, you know, and we paid for it. Don't

1303
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:36,640
Speaker 2: forget the moneral doctrine was not a small thing, you know,

1304
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:42,440
Speaker 2: like America belonged to the United States. That was really imposed.

1305
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 2: And we being the first black republic and the whole

1306
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 2: enemies fare, we were considered worse than Cuba in the fifties.

1307
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:55,599
Speaker 2: So there was no way that people in a New

1308
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 2: Orleans in Philadelphia were scared about the Save Revolution in

1309
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 2: the eighties. Yeah, and they make everything they could to

1310
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 2: strength you.

1311
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 1: See that the successful slave rebellion in Haiti sort of

1312
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:15,559
Speaker 1: made the United States not a not a paternal sort

1313
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:22,759
Speaker 1: of benevolent, paternal sort of figure, but a malevolent neighbor.

1314
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because you know that was clearly a danger

1315
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:31,680
Speaker 2: for their own you know, reality and the irony of

1316
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 2: all this. Without Haiti, there is no United States as

1317
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 2: we know.

1318
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 1: It, right.

1319
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 2: The most importantly army were blocked in Haiti that Napoleon

1320
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 2: had to sell the Louisiana purchase, you know, and and

1321
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 2: startup capitalism because for the first time in the world,

1322
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 2: in the whole planet, there was illimited land and i

1323
01:25:56,280 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 2: limited manpower through slavery and cotton just exploded. And that's

1324
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 2: the result of Haiti beating up Napoleon, you know, because

1325
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,919
Speaker 2: they thought, you know, we would establish slavery in Haiti

1326
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 2: in four months and then we will continue to occupy

1327
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 2: one turn of America that belonged to France. That's so

1328
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 2: the price that Haiti is paying is we are still

1329
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 2: paying it today. We could not invest in infrastructure because

1330
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 2: we had to reamboost a death to to France, and

1331
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 2: all the countries agree with that because they had the

1332
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 2: advantage on sea. You know, we were just an island.

1333
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:46,759
Speaker 2: We could fight on land, but we didn't have ship

1334
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:51,320
Speaker 2: to fight. When they would bring a worship in front

1335
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 2: of the Capitol and say we're gonna bombard it if

1336
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 2: you don't accept this and this and this'. That was

1337
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 2: the canon diplomacy at the time. So we paid that price.

1338
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:06,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, what if you could waive a magic wand

1339
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 1: and change and get the United States and the United

1340
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 1: States and we had a president that said, well, tell me,

1341
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:15,640
Speaker 1: I will do whatever it takes to help Haiti. What

1342
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:17,639
Speaker 1: is it that the United States could be doing?

1343
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 2: The first thing I would say, stay out of our business.

1344
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:25,840
Speaker 2: That's would be the first saying. Because we never had

1345
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:30,760
Speaker 2: one government, one president, one prime minister, one chief of

1346
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 2: police that is not vetted by the US embassy.

1347
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 1: That's our story, right.

1348
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 2: Since du Valier sends all the government, in fact, our

1349
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:45,840
Speaker 2: whole fight against for democracy when the civil society again,

1350
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 2: don't forget the civil society through Jacquelaud du Valier, baby

1351
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 2: dug out. He was still being supported by the US

1352
01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:59,519
Speaker 2: until the last day. Right, Okay, it's always the civil

1353
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:02,240
Speaker 2: society that has to go on the street and fight.

1354
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:07,719
Speaker 2: And what happened again, They tried to influence the outcome.

1355
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 2: They tried to influence the elections. We had fraud election.

1356
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 2: They changed the result in two thousand and two when

1357
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 2: Martin Lee became president. You know, I'm making a film

1358
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:26,160
Speaker 2: on the assassination of President jeof Nel Moise, and I

1359
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 2: can tell you, you know, it's so blatted the role

1360
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:36,720
Speaker 2: of people like Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, the whole US

1361
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:43,719
Speaker 2: administration in basically pushing for Martelli to become president. Somebody

1362
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:49,640
Speaker 2: who is known have been a drug trafficker, what do

1363
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 2: you call it? A brother in law is still an

1364
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 2: FBI D informant today, And I mean it's you know,

1365
01:28:57,240 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 2: when you work on that, you say, oh my god,

1366
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 2: how can this be possible?

1367
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 1: Boy? Oh? As you know, this is the story of

1368
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 1: almost every relationship we have in the Western hemisphere the

1369
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:12,479
Speaker 1: US is just it either gets too involved or not

1370
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: involved enough. But it's never as a friendly neighbor. It's

1371
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 1: always as a micromanaging neighbor.

1372
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:21,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the last thing about that, you know, there

1373
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,519
Speaker 2: have been a movement for the last seven years trying

1374
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 2: to restore some sort of constitutional legitimacy.

1375
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:35,040
Speaker 1: Right fighting over whether fighting over this, No.

1376
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,519
Speaker 2: It's no. But before we you know, there were a

1377
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:42,080
Speaker 2: lot of consultations in the whole asians of society, all parties,

1378
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 2: all institutions, unions, et cetera participate in that debate, and

1379
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:52,840
Speaker 2: they had a plan they call it Montana Accord, and

1380
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:55,799
Speaker 2: which have been the base to have this new government.

1381
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:02,200
Speaker 2: But what happened The biggest fearless opposing forced into each

1382
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 2: of those elements, where's the US administration, because they wanted

1383
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:09,760
Speaker 2: to keep the control they wanted to have. There are

1384
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 2: men that they control. They don't care if that man

1385
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 2: is a Democrat or not. They just want to control it,

1386
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 2: you know. So there was I think it was Nixon

1387
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:22,640
Speaker 2: who say, well, yeah, we know he's a crook, but

1388
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 2: it is our crooks. That's the base of the politics.

1389
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:31,600
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you that with all sincerity because I

1390
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:36,759
Speaker 2: know that, you know, I have US ambassadors who have friends.

1391
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,080
Speaker 2: They told me, we have no plan. You know, our

1392
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 2: plan is the next three months. It's not even the

1393
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 2: next year. You know, they go nobody care about eighty

1394
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 2: you know, they come when there is a catastrophe, that's it.

1395
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:53,720
Speaker 2: But they want to keep the the you know, their

1396
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 2: own person and with the elite, which is you know,

1397
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 2: an Oligoch elite who is close to the American elite

1398
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:02,400
Speaker 2: and to.

1399
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 1: The because of their right, that's it. That's usually about money,

1400
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 1: it's about.

1401
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:10,000
Speaker 2: Well exactly exactly. So yeah, it's a long story, and

1402
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 2: yes it is. We shall do a whole show on that.

1403
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:16,240
Speaker 1: Would I would love to do that. When you're when? When?

1404
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:18,880
Speaker 1: When is the film on the assassination going to come out?

1405
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:22,799
Speaker 2: Probably next year because we were waiting for the trial

1406
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 2: in Florida. In Miami there is a trial going on

1407
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:29,479
Speaker 2: right now. The one in Haiti have been pushed back again.

1408
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 2: They have to stop from scratch because it's a complicated story.

1409
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 2: But we hope that the one in Miami will will

1410
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:41,320
Speaker 2: be I think schedule for March twenty six.

1411
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 1: I could go on and on, but let me get

1412
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 1: you out of here with one artistic creative question. AI,

1413
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 1: can youe? How will you? How do you plan to

1414
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:55,920
Speaker 1: use it in your filmmaking?

1415
01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:02,200
Speaker 2: I will not unless I am totally transparent in it

1416
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:08,800
Speaker 2: and that there is a story reason why to use it.

1417
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 2: You know, I can't just use it as an instrument

1418
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:17,360
Speaker 2: that doesn't have any bias of flaws, you know, And

1419
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 2: that's what regulation needs to say. You know, you have

1420
01:32:21,880 --> 01:32:25,360
Speaker 2: to find what are the rules, what are the ethical rules,

1421
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 2: what are the economical rules, what are the copyright rules?

1422
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:33,600
Speaker 2: All that has to be worked about. You know, it's

1423
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 2: one person in the film was saying tech industry is

1424
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 2: the least regulated industry in the whole planet, you know,

1425
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 2: and usually that takes time. Congress usually take five or

1426
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:50,519
Speaker 2: even ten years to regulate. Now with the.

1427
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:55,920
Speaker 1: Stud it took us seventy years to mandate seatbelts in automobiles. Okay,

1428
01:32:56,320 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 1: like right, Like that's a lot that it took that

1429
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:03,600
Speaker 1: law for us to worry about individual safety and cars.

1430
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:06,400
Speaker 2: And people who are making making money out of it.

1431
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:10,240
Speaker 2: They know they are, they are charging right, they are

1432
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:14,400
Speaker 2: trying to make the most money the most controlled until

1433
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 2: you know, the regulation cup but usually it comes. That's

1434
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 2: why they are lobbying their lobby to push back any regulation.

1435
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 2: You know. That's that's the game that we have been

1436
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 2: seeing after every new technology. Internet remember how, you know,

1437
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 2: how it was to put some sort of regulation on

1438
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 2: the Internet that we started. I remember the first time

1439
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:44,360
Speaker 2: I used the Internet. It was in the university context context.

1440
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 2: You have to go to your professor to have a

1441
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:50,000
Speaker 2: number so that you could access the net, and it

1442
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 2: was scientific you could not just.

1443
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,320
Speaker 1: Well, but that's an argument. I mean not to go

1444
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,920
Speaker 1: off on a tangent here, but you know, the government.

1445
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:00,519
Speaker 1: The United States government was involved in building the Internet.

1446
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:03,040
Speaker 1: You could argue that this was a technology that at

1447
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 1: least the government was aware of the guardrails that might

1448
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:10,240
Speaker 1: be necessary in the moment. We did it with nuclear weapons,

1449
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:12,720
Speaker 1: whether that was smart or not, but we were the

1450
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:16,760
Speaker 1: government was there involved with it. This is the first matter.

1451
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 1: This change is something where government's not been involved other

1452
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:24,280
Speaker 1: than as almost an investor. It's about it and that's

1453
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:26,120
Speaker 1: a that's a scary process.

1454
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:30,920
Speaker 2: Well, well, the ones building it or even in government, Yeah,

1455
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:34,320
Speaker 2: you know, that's the scary pod. They are in power.

1456
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 1: They have power, and they're gonna yeah beauty.

1457
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 2: So again it will be on the shoulder of the

1458
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 2: civil society to find a response to that, because if

1459
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:46,120
Speaker 2: we don't, they will do whatever they want with us.

1460
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 1: Well, look, I can't. I highly recommend this. This was terrific.

1461
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:56,360
Speaker 1: It is both beautiful. It's a visual it's just visually

1462
01:34:56,520 --> 01:35:00,760
Speaker 1: appealing and yeah, it's like an make you feel great.

1463
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:04,600
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie about that, but.

1464
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 2: It will push you to us some necessary questions.

1465
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 1: And we got to keep doing that and more people,

1466
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 1: And you're right, I wish I did experience it with

1467
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:16,519
Speaker 1: a larger group you know, I obviously saw it on

1468
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 1: my own screening. I agree, I yeah, yeah, this is

1469
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 1: I want to see universities. Yeah yeah, Well they.

1470
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 2: Are at seventy markets right now and they I think

1471
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:32,920
Speaker 2: they will expand and and I hope it will.

1472
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 1: Do you know where where is it going to be

1473
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:37,439
Speaker 1: streamed eventually? Do you know? No?

1474
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 2: We we all concentrating on on the theatrical run.

1475
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:44,720
Speaker 1: Gotcha, But at some point it will be available for

1476
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:47,920
Speaker 1: people as well. Right well, when it does, I'll certainly

1477
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:51,760
Speaker 1: advertise it away. This is a pleasure, thank you, sir.

1478
01:35:51,880 --> 01:36:07,600
Speaker 1: Quest Okay, I am really this is you know, sometimes

1479
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:11,120
Speaker 1: I'll pull a muscle padding myself on the back is

1480
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:12,639
Speaker 1: one of the jokes I used to tell my staff

1481
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: all the time. But I love my weekly history segment.

1482
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 1: I look forward to figuring out what am I going

1483
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,320
Speaker 1: to do this week? What is going on?

1484
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:21,559
Speaker 2: What is on?

1485
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: What is in the time machine memory bank that will

1486
01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:32,000
Speaker 1: inspire an important history lesson? Well, I was excited the week.

1487
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:34,519
Speaker 1: So we are looking at the week of October twenty

1488
01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 1: seventh through November six That is the window of anniversaries

1489
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:42,599
Speaker 1: that I was looking at throughout history, and I'm going

1490
01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 1: back all the way to the eighteenth century. That's right.

1491
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:52,600
Speaker 1: Did you guess where I was going? Because it was

1492
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:58,720
Speaker 1: this week in seventeen eighty seven, a little New York

1493
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 1: newspaper called The in Pennant Journal ran an unsigned essay

1494
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 1: my mysterious author named Pubulus. That column, just a few

1495
01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 1: paragraphs long, would become the opening salvo in what we

1496
01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:20,520
Speaker 1: now call the Federalist Papers. Over the next eight months. Publius, Publius,

1497
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:24,160
Speaker 1: however you wanted to pronounce, that actually was Alexander Hamilton,

1498
01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:28,759
Speaker 1: James Madison, and John Jay. Together they published eighty five

1499
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:33,280
Speaker 1: of these essays across three papers, The Independent Journal, the

1500
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 1: New York Packet, and the Daily Advertiser. They came out

1501
01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:41,519
Speaker 1: every few days like a running public cinema seminar on

1502
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:44,880
Speaker 1: how to build a republic from scratch. Think of it

1503
01:37:44,920 --> 01:37:49,000
Speaker 1: as the first American political blog, right, just set in

1504
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 1: seventeen eighty seven and printed in ink. Thank you, mister

1505
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:58,000
Speaker 1: Gutenberg for that, for that ability, if you will. As

1506
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, I've talked about various Federalist papers in the path.

1507
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:07,320
Speaker 1: Taken together, the Federalist Papers are essentially the instruction manual

1508
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:11,840
Speaker 1: for how we put the Constitution together and what the

1509
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:17,040
Speaker 1: rationale of the constitutional itself was for the republic. I

1510
01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:19,680
Speaker 1: do look at it as the owner's manual, and if

1511
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:22,439
Speaker 1: you're trying to you can't figure out why we're doing

1512
01:38:22,479 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 1: something as a government. Yes, sometimes the Constitution doesn't have

1513
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:28,320
Speaker 1: all the answers. You actually got to go to the

1514
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 1: original instruction manual. These eighty plus essays the original instruction

1515
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:38,880
Speaker 1: manual of essentially how to be the American Republic. So

1516
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:41,960
Speaker 1: the opening question. Hamilton began the very first essay with

1517
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 1: the question that still defines our politics today. He wrote,

1518
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 1: whether societies of men are really capable of establishing good

1519
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:52,759
Speaker 1: government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever

1520
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 1: destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force.

1521
01:38:59,439 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 1: That still is the choice we still face, Isn't it

1522
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 1: reason or rage? Hamilton feared that personal ambition, regional jealousy,

1523
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:11,759
Speaker 1: and demagogues posing as patriots could tear this young country apart.

1524
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 1: He warned that men could quote deceive with specious promises

1525
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:20,519
Speaker 1: of change, driven more by ego than principle. Sound familiar.

1526
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:24,240
Speaker 1: He wasn't just selling a constitution with these essays. Hamilton

1527
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:28,640
Speaker 1: was defending the idea that democracy only survives is citizens

1528
01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:34,360
Speaker 1: stay calm enough to think and essentially don't become too emotional.

1529
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 1: So that was Federalist number one. What I want to

1530
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 1: do here a little bit, consider this a not a

1531
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 1: homework assignment, but more like if you're asking me which

1532
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 1: federalist paper I think you should read all of them,

1533
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:54,439
Speaker 1: of course, but if you're going to ask me which

1534
01:39:54,479 --> 01:39:58,000
Speaker 1: ones should you read in this moment, well, that's what

1535
01:39:58,080 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to single out for the rest of this

1536
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 1: time machine segment. So Federalist number fifty one, ambition versus ambition.

1537
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 1: This is Madison. He picked up the pen to explain

1538
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:10,799
Speaker 1: the plumbing of the new system, and he said, ambition

1539
01:40:10,960 --> 01:40:15,040
Speaker 1: must be made to counteract ambition. Essentially, you need a

1540
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:17,240
Speaker 1: You're going to have to accept the premise that there'd

1541
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:20,479
Speaker 1: be a competition of some sorts. So the legislature would

1542
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:22,799
Speaker 1: make the laws, the President would execute them, the courts

1543
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:28,120
Speaker 1: would interpret them. Each branch, in some ways, he hoped,

1544
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 1: would crave its own power so that no single man

1545
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:36,840
Speaker 1: could hoard such power. And the hope and assumption was

1546
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 1: each branch would really protect its turf, and if anything,

1547
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 1: every once in a while try to expand its turf.

1548
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:47,880
Speaker 1: And see which pushback. But the assumption was all three

1549
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: branches would have the ambition of securing their power. In

1550
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:58,840
Speaker 1: today's politics. Unfortunately, Congress just totally punts to presidents or

1551
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:02,200
Speaker 1: the courts. So Madison's warning feels less like theory and

1552
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 1: frankly more like diagnosis. Our biggest problem in America right

1553
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:11,640
Speaker 1: now structurally is that we have an extraordinarily weak legislative

1554
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:18,320
Speaker 1: branch and an extraordinary weak Congress at this moment. Federalist

1555
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 1: Paper Number ten is another one I would encourage you

1556
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:23,839
Speaker 1: to read. This was another one by Madison. It's arguably

1557
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:27,200
Speaker 1: his most famous paper because it was all about political parties,

1558
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:31,360
Speaker 1: or what he called them, factions. Liberty is to faction

1559
01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:34,759
Speaker 1: what air is to fire. Okay, he knew that factions

1560
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:38,880
Speaker 1: would exist, but his cure for faction to sort of

1561
01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:43,240
Speaker 1: prevent too much factionalism with size a large republic where

1562
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:47,400
Speaker 1: competing interests dilute one another. While the Internet age has

1563
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:53,720
Speaker 1: shrunk that big republicanto two algorithmic echo chambers. Hamilton and

1564
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:58,720
Speaker 1: Madison wanted an expected disagreement. They didn't want it weaponized.

1565
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:00,880
Speaker 1: And I would also argue that if you read this

1566
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 1: paper carefully, the duopoly is something that I think Madison

1567
01:42:06,720 --> 01:42:09,679
Speaker 1: and Hamilton would have you know, they didn't want factions anyway,

1568
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:11,720
Speaker 1: but if you were going to have, you know, the

1569
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:16,360
Speaker 1: only thing worse than one or two one political party

1570
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 1: is two political parties. And if anything, if you're going

1571
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:20,400
Speaker 1: to have them, then you better have a whole bunch

1572
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 1: of them. And in some ways I would argue this

1573
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:26,559
Speaker 1: is the moment where this is the paper that makes

1574
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 1: it clear if you're going to have parties, you cannot

1575
01:42:29,120 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 1: limit them to one or two. That you know you

1576
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 1: limiting limiting the factions actually makes things work. What we

1577
01:42:36,520 --> 01:42:40,799
Speaker 1: need is a thousand parties, right. We need more parties,

1578
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:43,920
Speaker 1: we need more representatives, We need more democracy, not less.

1579
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 1: The less democracy we have, the more likely authoritarianism happens.

1580
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:55,040
Speaker 1: Federalist Paper Number seventy. A powerful Executive Hamilton. He argued

1581
01:42:55,080 --> 01:42:59,400
Speaker 1: that a single, energetic president was essential, So while he

1582
01:42:59,479 --> 01:43:03,080
Speaker 1: wanted the executive branch to be somewhat weak, he was

1583
01:43:03,120 --> 01:43:05,599
Speaker 1: hoping the head of the executive branch would have energy

1584
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:10,599
Speaker 1: and attempt to be strong. Be strong with your weak powers, essentially, right,

1585
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:14,000
Speaker 1: that would be the balance because a feeble executive, he argued,

1586
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 1: implies a feeble execution of the government, and you can't

1587
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:21,479
Speaker 1: have that. But he wanted decisiveness but also accountability, one

1588
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 1: person to credit or blame. Now we've actually kept that energy.

1589
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:29,439
Speaker 1: We give our presidents too much credit and too much blame.

1590
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:33,080
Speaker 1: But what we don't have is accountability for these presidents.

1591
01:43:34,080 --> 01:43:38,320
Speaker 1: The every attempt at accountability for a president has not

1592
01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:43,519
Speaker 1: worked in that sense. The cont what we have with

1593
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:47,839
Speaker 1: the constitutional guardrails are a failure on that front. Federw's

1594
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:50,679
Speaker 1: paper number sixty five, Impeachment and the Abuse of Power.

1595
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 1: This was Hamilton again, and he saw and he predicted

1596
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:56,040
Speaker 1: that impeachment was going to be a political exercise, not

1597
01:43:56,120 --> 01:43:58,960
Speaker 1: a criminal one. He wrote, the greatest danger is that

1598
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,000
Speaker 1: the decision will be regulated more by the comparative strength

1599
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:05,600
Speaker 1: of the parties than by the real demonstrations of innocence

1600
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:10,880
Speaker 1: or guilt. I would say that is true. He nailed

1601
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 1: the twenty first two centuries. Early impeachment was meant as

1602
01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:18,840
Speaker 1: a civic judgment, not a partisan trophy. And yet partisanship

1603
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 1: is arguably driven both the three impeachments that we have

1604
01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:30,360
Speaker 1: had in the last thirty five years and the results

1605
01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:34,240
Speaker 1: that came with them. Federalist Paper number seventy eight was

1606
01:44:34,280 --> 01:44:36,840
Speaker 1: about the judiciary, and this is one you've heard me

1607
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 1: rant about before because I think this is Hamilton's argument

1608
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:44,800
Speaker 1: that you cannot politicize to the judiciary. Hamilton called the

1609
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:48,000
Speaker 1: courts quote the least dangerous branch because they had neither

1610
01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:53,400
Speaker 1: force nor will, but merely judgment. Did he underestimate the

1611
01:44:53,439 --> 01:44:57,320
Speaker 1: power of that lifetime tenure was supposed to protect independence,

1612
01:44:57,400 --> 01:45:00,800
Speaker 1: not politicize it. And if he could see our information wars,

1613
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:04,280
Speaker 1: he'd recognize the danger that judges have turned into politicians

1614
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:08,280
Speaker 1: and robes. Here's what Hamilton never would have agreed to

1615
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:10,320
Speaker 1: if he knew it was going to be that a

1616
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:12,920
Speaker 1: simple majority would decide who gets to be a judge,

1617
01:45:13,439 --> 01:45:17,479
Speaker 1: a simple majority of the Senate that politicizes things too much.

1618
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:22,320
Speaker 1: Lifetime opponent appointments were supposed to shield us from some

1619
01:45:22,360 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 1: of this partisanship that has not worked out. We do

1620
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:28,120
Speaker 1: this whole find the youngest possible person you can appoint,

1621
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:31,559
Speaker 1: then they have to so the system got gained right.

1622
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:35,479
Speaker 1: This is one of those where there's where essentially it's

1623
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:38,240
Speaker 1: like figuring out the analytics of the old rules of baseball,

1624
01:45:38,840 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 1: and that's why they had to change some of the

1625
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:44,639
Speaker 1: rules on a pitch clock and how often you can

1626
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:48,840
Speaker 1: go to the bullpen. Because everybody's figured it out. And

1627
01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:51,040
Speaker 1: I think when you read all of Federal seventy eight,

1628
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:54,280
Speaker 1: it is crystal clear that a couple things we should

1629
01:45:54,320 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 1: never be electing judges. That the fact that there's even

1630
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:02,400
Speaker 1: decisions that the public as any time you make judges

1631
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:06,880
Speaker 1: have to face voters, you politicize that judge. That is

1632
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:09,960
Speaker 1: a mistake and you should never have it. We have

1633
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:13,760
Speaker 1: this sort of step by step approach. And if you

1634
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,639
Speaker 1: want the most new again, what do you want from judges?

1635
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:20,400
Speaker 1: Neutrality or partisanship? Right now? We have a system that

1636
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:23,679
Speaker 1: favors partisanship. We do not have a system that favors

1637
01:46:23,720 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 1: neutrality in our judges. Hamilton argues for neutrality as much

1638
01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:32,120
Speaker 1: neutrality as you can get. Can you argue right now

1639
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:36,559
Speaker 1: that the system we have in place to put judges

1640
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:40,840
Speaker 1: in their place in our system is somehow the least

1641
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:46,479
Speaker 1: partisan way we could do it. No. Federalist papers number

1642
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:49,680
Speaker 1: fifty two, sixty two, and sixty three, these were the

1643
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:51,760
Speaker 1: Federalist papers on the House and the Senate. I think

1644
01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:53,679
Speaker 1: you should read those if you were going to cherry

1645
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:56,080
Speaker 1: pick some Madison and Hamilton divided Congress for a reason.

1646
01:46:56,720 --> 01:47:01,120
Speaker 1: The House was designed for immediacy to your terms, local accountability,

1647
01:47:01,320 --> 01:47:05,400
Speaker 1: people's pulse. Frequent elections are unquestionably the only policy by

1648
01:47:05,400 --> 01:47:10,920
Speaker 1: which this dependence and sympathy can be effectually secured. In

1649
01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:13,920
Speaker 1: number fifty two, the Senate was built for reflection, six

1650
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:17,080
Speaker 1: year term staggered stability. A due sense of national character

1651
01:47:17,080 --> 01:47:19,800
Speaker 1: requires that the government should be so constituted as to

1652
01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:23,720
Speaker 1: be consistent with the veneration which time bestows unstable institutions.

1653
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:26,759
Speaker 1: That was out of Federalists sixty three. What the founders

1654
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:29,479
Speaker 1: wanted was one chamber to move fast and another to

1655
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:32,920
Speaker 1: say slow down. Today we argue whether the Senate blocks

1656
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:35,600
Speaker 1: progress or preserves balance. The truth is it actually was

1657
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:37,360
Speaker 1: built to do both. And I think if you're trying

1658
01:47:37,360 --> 01:47:39,160
Speaker 1: to make laws for three hundred and thirty million people,

1659
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:44,000
Speaker 1: it should be deliberative, should be absolutely the key word there.

1660
01:47:45,080 --> 01:47:48,160
Speaker 1: Federal's paper Number forty five is federal versus state power.

1661
01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 1: Madison reminded skeptics that most power would remain local, does it?

1662
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:57,639
Speaker 1: The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal

1663
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,479
Speaker 1: government are few and defined. Those which are to remain

1664
01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:04,360
Speaker 1: in the state governments are numerous and indefinite. Oh are they?

1665
01:48:04,760 --> 01:48:06,599
Speaker 1: I don't think he imagined a world of federal spending

1666
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:10,759
Speaker 1: bills the size of phone books. But Madison, but the tension.

1667
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:15,920
Speaker 1: Madison outline national standards versus local control still defines our

1668
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:19,840
Speaker 1: fights over education, policing, and healthcare. But we have made

1669
01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:22,880
Speaker 1: it very much on the domestic side of things where

1670
01:48:23,160 --> 01:48:27,400
Speaker 1: where we seem to But let's be honest, the Feds

1671
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:30,000
Speaker 1: have encroached on what many of us thought should be

1672
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:35,600
Speaker 1: state rights for some time. Papers numbers fifty five and

1673
01:48:35,640 --> 01:48:39,240
Speaker 1: seventy two were about corruption and self enrichment. Madison warned

1674
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:44,360
Speaker 1: that too few representatives would breed corruption in all very

1675
01:48:44,439 --> 01:48:48,599
Speaker 1: numerous assemblies of whatever character. Passion never fails to rest

1676
01:48:48,680 --> 01:48:52,200
Speaker 1: this scepter from reason. But Hamilton went further in number

1677
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:54,680
Speaker 1: seventy two, worrying about leaders who'd view office as a

1678
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:57,479
Speaker 1: permanent career. The love of power and the desire of

1679
01:48:57,520 --> 01:49:01,120
Speaker 1: reward are two principal human passions which operate on the

1680
01:49:01,200 --> 01:49:05,960
Speaker 1: human hearts. Basically, it's human nature, right, so you've got

1681
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:09,400
Speaker 1: to put guardrails in to fight against human nature. He

1682
01:49:09,479 --> 01:49:13,000
Speaker 1: defended reelection, but only if voters stayed vigilant. If public

1683
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:16,280
Speaker 1: service became self service, the system would rot from the inside.

1684
01:49:17,320 --> 01:49:19,920
Speaker 1: That sounds familiar. Some will read that as a case

1685
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:22,800
Speaker 1: for term limits. I also read it as a case

1686
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:26,400
Speaker 1: for it was a huge mistake to stop expanding the House.

1687
01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:32,040
Speaker 1: We need too few representatives breed corruption. Hello, we have

1688
01:49:32,120 --> 01:49:34,479
Speaker 1: too few members of the House of Representatives. I know

1689
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:36,040
Speaker 1: you guys think some of you think.

1690
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:36,160
Speaker 2: No.

1691
01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:39,719
Speaker 1: The last thing you need is more politicians new right now,

1692
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 1: what the system we have is only enriched everybody. If

1693
01:49:43,160 --> 01:49:46,040
Speaker 1: you want to cut down the cost of campaigns, cut

1694
01:49:46,080 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 1: down the cost of the barrier to entry for normal

1695
01:49:49,040 --> 01:49:54,479
Speaker 1: people to be representing communities of interest in Congress, you

1696
01:49:54,479 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 1: would want to double the size.

1697
01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:56,080
Speaker 2: Of the House.

1698
01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:00,759
Speaker 1: Fellow's paper number eighty four, The Rule of Lawns Virtue.

1699
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:04,800
Speaker 1: Hamilton closed the series arguing that parchment rights meant nothing

1700
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:07,360
Speaker 1: without public virtue. The Bill of Rights, he writes, would

1701
01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:10,080
Speaker 1: even be dangerous because they could contain various exceptions to

1702
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:12,599
Speaker 1: powers not granted. Look at all the ways we try

1703
01:50:12,640 --> 01:50:16,840
Speaker 1: to look for gaps in the Second Amendment right his point,

1704
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:20,400
Speaker 1: the paper doesn't protect you people do. Constitutions are just

1705
01:50:20,439 --> 01:50:23,600
Speaker 1: words unless citizens choose to enforce them. You have a

1706
01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:27,040
Speaker 1: right to free speech. The government cannot get in the

1707
01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:30,160
Speaker 1: way of that. But if you choose not to use

1708
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 1: the law Disney, if you choose not to use the

1709
01:50:33,320 --> 01:50:37,000
Speaker 1: law paramount, if you choose not to use the law X,

1710
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:40,439
Speaker 1: choose not to use the law meta. You see where

1711
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:44,559
Speaker 1: I'm going here, then it is just words on parchment paper.

1712
01:50:46,280 --> 01:50:49,800
Speaker 1: So there you go. There's your homework. Again. It's a choice.

1713
01:50:50,439 --> 01:50:55,280
Speaker 1: But here's here's something that I'm hoping that we can

1714
01:50:55,320 --> 01:50:59,120
Speaker 1: be thinking about soon, which is it's I will tell

1715
01:50:59,160 --> 01:51:01,120
Speaker 1: you I've thought about this, and I'm curious how many

1716
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:05,800
Speaker 1: people would be interested in this? Should we redo the

1717
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:12,120
Speaker 1: federalist papers with a modern twist. It's a podcast special

1718
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:17,080
Speaker 1: or series that I'm pondering putting together, sort of an

1719
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:23,000
Speaker 1: episodic one. Maybe we just literally do one at a time. Yeah,

1720
01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:27,760
Speaker 1: it's a little dorky, but maybe, just maybe if you

1721
01:51:27,880 --> 01:51:31,120
Speaker 1: put the rule book for how to keep for seeing

1722
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:34,519
Speaker 1: if we can keep this a republic right and the

1723
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:37,320
Speaker 1: infamous words have Ben Franklin, it's a republican or excuse me,

1724
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:40,040
Speaker 1: it's a republic if we can keep it, if we

1725
01:51:40,080 --> 01:51:42,240
Speaker 1: want to keep it, maybe we need to update the

1726
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:46,599
Speaker 1: Federalist papers, and maybe we all need to reread them

1727
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:50,000
Speaker 1: in their original form as well. So there you go,

1728
01:51:50,160 --> 01:51:55,160
Speaker 1: toodcast time machine. It was this week in seventeen eighty

1729
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:58,880
Speaker 1: seven that these essays started making their way in the public.

1730
01:52:08,040 --> 01:52:10,679
Speaker 1: All right, let's do a little last chuck ass chuck.

1731
01:52:14,040 --> 01:52:17,559
Speaker 1: This one comes from right my second favorite part of

1732
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:20,760
Speaker 1: Florida Pan. Longtime listening to the show, been listening since

1733
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:24,080
Speaker 1: it was nineteen forty seven. Nice. You've often said that

1734
01:52:24,120 --> 01:52:26,240
Speaker 1: Trump taps into something real but fails to execute in

1735
01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:28,720
Speaker 1: a way that people like, Yes, I do. Do you

1736
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:30,920
Speaker 1: think it could be beneficial for Democrats to flip the

1737
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:33,280
Speaker 1: script and take an American first position for the midterms,

1738
01:52:33,280 --> 01:52:36,400
Speaker 1: pointing to the Argentinian bailout foreign intervention tariffs is not

1739
01:52:36,439 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 1: America first? You think the Democrats can even consider that

1740
01:52:39,160 --> 01:52:41,640
Speaker 1: an option with their history of poor messaging, love the

1741
01:52:41,680 --> 01:52:46,400
Speaker 1: college football, Taco Knights. All my best will be a

1742
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. I mean, this is one of those

1743
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:53,120
Speaker 1: cases again. The Democrats can't get political power without winning

1744
01:52:53,200 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 1: over people that voted for Trump. And if you don't,

1745
01:52:57,360 --> 01:53:00,760
Speaker 1: if you don't put your campaign together thinking that that's

1746
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:03,200
Speaker 1: some of the vote you've got to win. Then you're

1747
01:53:03,240 --> 01:53:04,640
Speaker 1: not going to be doing it right. If you're just

1748
01:53:04,680 --> 01:53:06,920
Speaker 1: trying to win a nomination by going as far to

1749
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:09,479
Speaker 1: the left or as angry about Trump as you can get,

1750
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:11,599
Speaker 1: you might be able to get a nomination, but you're

1751
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:13,720
Speaker 1: not going to be able to win over the skeptical

1752
01:53:13,800 --> 01:53:16,559
Speaker 1: voter who didn't trust the Democrats the last time they

1753
01:53:16,600 --> 01:53:20,360
Speaker 1: had power. So one hundred percent. And that's the thing.

1754
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:23,320
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's secure in the border. You saw

1755
01:53:23,360 --> 01:53:26,439
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is trying to do it. Hey, Biden did

1756
01:53:26,560 --> 01:53:28,719
Speaker 1: terrible on the border. Trump's doing well on the border,

1757
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:31,080
Speaker 1: so said Bernie Sanders, right, And I saw a bunch

1758
01:53:31,080 --> 01:53:32,840
Speaker 1: of people on the left not happy that he said that.

1759
01:53:34,040 --> 01:53:36,360
Speaker 1: But you know, that's the first time I've ever seen

1760
01:53:36,360 --> 01:53:38,599
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders do something that was designed to actually try

1761
01:53:38,640 --> 01:53:42,000
Speaker 1: to win an election. You got to win fifty percent

1762
01:53:42,040 --> 01:53:48,240
Speaker 1: plus one somehow, So yes, you know. And the question is,

1763
01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:50,760
Speaker 1: just because you say you're America first, do you put

1764
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:51,679
Speaker 1: Americans first?

1765
01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:51,960
Speaker 2: Right?

1766
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 1: I mean, my goodness, I think I just wrote the

1767
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:56,760
Speaker 1: I think you just inspired well, you just wrote the

1768
01:53:56,800 --> 01:54:00,360
Speaker 1: campaign at right. Well, you just simply asked that ques question.

1769
01:54:01,360 --> 01:54:04,280
Speaker 1: My opponent says, he's put in America first. Do you

1770
01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:07,599
Speaker 1: feel like he puts this American first? Do you feel

1771
01:54:07,680 --> 01:54:09,920
Speaker 1: which Americans does he push first? Does he just put

1772
01:54:09,960 --> 01:54:12,479
Speaker 1: the Americans in Silicon Valley first? Does he just put

1773
01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 1: them the folks that are giving money for AI? Does

1774
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:19,040
Speaker 1: he put those first? Does he put the cryptocurrency people first?

1775
01:54:19,439 --> 01:54:21,880
Speaker 1: How about putting you the American taxpayer first? Right? I

1776
01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 1: mean the point is you can go in a million

1777
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:29,920
Speaker 1: directions this way, but I I look co opt. The

1778
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:33,520
Speaker 1: most successful way to usually win an election when you

1779
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:35,600
Speaker 1: haven't won in a while is to co opt a

1780
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 1: successful message that's somebody else at right. So the fact

1781
01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:46,120
Speaker 1: is about your idea here again? You should? You should?

1782
01:54:46,280 --> 01:54:50,400
Speaker 1: You're already doing better political consulting than ninety percent of

1783
01:54:50,400 --> 01:54:53,280
Speaker 1: the political consultants that could hire for Democratic campaigns right now?

1784
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:55,160
Speaker 2: So will be.

1785
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:00,480
Speaker 1: Put out a Shanngle buddy, Call my friend Deep Shale

1786
01:55:00,480 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 1: down in Florida. He'll like it. Next question comes from

1787
01:55:03,720 --> 01:55:07,080
Speaker 1: Brian Bee Silver Spring. Hey, Chuck, has there ever has

1788
01:55:07,120 --> 01:55:10,000
Speaker 1: there been any talk about the growing frustration with Act Blue?

1789
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:12,680
Speaker 1: Actually there has been been a regular Democratic donor since

1790
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:14,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, but the volume of unsolicited text and emails,

1791
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:17,840
Speaker 1: especially since the twenty twenty four election, it's become overwhelming

1792
01:55:18,280 --> 01:55:21,280
Speaker 1: despite unsubscribing. If Act Blue claims not to share donor info,

1793
01:55:21,320 --> 01:55:23,560
Speaker 1: how are all these campaigns getting my contact details? I

1794
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:26,000
Speaker 1: can't be the only one feeling burned and hesitant to

1795
01:55:26,040 --> 01:55:28,720
Speaker 1: donate again. Curious to hear your thoughts, Brian, I hope

1796
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:30,280
Speaker 1: you get a chance of you if you may have

1797
01:55:30,320 --> 01:55:33,880
Speaker 1: missed the interview I did with Stanford professor. And also

1798
01:55:34,280 --> 01:55:37,200
Speaker 1: he has a sub stack basically that uses data to

1799
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:43,320
Speaker 1: do huge dives into various things. Adam Bonica went deep

1800
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:47,920
Speaker 1: into any he sort of uncovered what appears to be

1801
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:51,800
Speaker 1: just a scam pack operating on the left and in

1802
01:55:51,840 --> 01:55:56,200
Speaker 1: these numerous ways. Now the fact that Act Blue wasn't

1803
01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:59,080
Speaker 1: able to sort of stop this kind of nonsense, and

1804
01:55:59,440 --> 01:56:02,560
Speaker 1: his was not quite the way you described your experience

1805
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:05,760
Speaker 1: with Act Blue per se, but he was describing how

1806
01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:11,280
Speaker 1: sort of the different that essentially this fundraising company was

1807
01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:14,920
Speaker 1: using all of the telltale signs of elder of taking

1808
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:18,760
Speaker 1: advantage of the elderly. When you're trying to do financial scams,

1809
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:22,080
Speaker 1: there's almost like a rule book if you're going to

1810
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:24,080
Speaker 1: scam old people. This is how you do it, and

1811
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:26,760
Speaker 1: this is what that fundraising entity did. And I think

1812
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:29,160
Speaker 1: what you're describing here with Act Blue, there's just a

1813
01:56:29,160 --> 01:56:32,160
Speaker 1: lot of now some of this look I think Republicans again,

1814
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:36,720
Speaker 1: you know, in our partisan oversight, even though a lot

1815
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:39,280
Speaker 1: of this has been happening quite a bit on both

1816
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:42,320
Speaker 1: sides of the aisle. I think House Republicans only want

1817
01:56:42,320 --> 01:56:45,560
Speaker 1: to investigate Act Blue because they're frustrated that Democrats seem

1818
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:48,800
Speaker 1: to be out raising Republicans when really there is an

1819
01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:52,120
Speaker 1: issue of how fundraising tactics worth work on both sides

1820
01:56:52,160 --> 01:56:54,520
Speaker 1: of the aisle. This is one of those cases where

1821
01:56:55,320 --> 01:56:59,360
Speaker 1: if Congress could act in the best interest of the

1822
01:56:59,400 --> 01:57:02,760
Speaker 1: consumer or you and treat realize that donors, whether they're

1823
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:07,560
Speaker 1: Republican or Democratic, are consumers and should be provided some

1824
01:57:07,640 --> 01:57:11,520
Speaker 1: sort of consumer protection here, because that's what this is

1825
01:57:11,520 --> 01:57:14,600
Speaker 1: is that you should be you should be trying to

1826
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:19,440
Speaker 1: protect the consumer. And so this is where it would

1827
01:57:19,440 --> 01:57:21,760
Speaker 1: be nice to have some bipartisanship when it came to oversight.

1828
01:57:22,080 --> 01:57:23,880
Speaker 1: We don't have it. You're not going to You may

1829
01:57:23,920 --> 01:57:26,160
Speaker 1: have Republicans trying to go to Act Blue, but they're

1830
01:57:26,160 --> 01:57:29,520
Speaker 1: not even going to investigate it the right way. But

1831
01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:32,160
Speaker 1: this is I think this is a growing issue, and

1832
01:57:32,200 --> 01:57:34,880
Speaker 1: I think it's leading to some donor fatigue, and you're

1833
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:36,960
Speaker 1: going to have fewer and fewer people want to respond

1834
01:57:36,960 --> 01:57:41,160
Speaker 1: to any of these messages. So in some ways, it's

1835
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:44,280
Speaker 1: probably going to make this a less and less useful

1836
01:57:44,280 --> 01:57:47,760
Speaker 1: way to raise money because more people are going to

1837
01:57:47,800 --> 01:57:50,240
Speaker 1: assume they're being scammed and you're just going to have

1838
01:57:50,280 --> 01:57:54,240
Speaker 1: a collective decision to not participate at all. That's the

1839
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:58,800
Speaker 1: unintended consequence of this. All right, I'm going to do

1840
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:02,440
Speaker 1: two more questions here and then go into my recap

1841
01:58:02,480 --> 01:58:07,640
Speaker 1: of college football this weekend. This comes from Judith and Vermont.

1842
01:58:07,680 --> 01:58:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm wondering why there are no repercussions when people such

1843
01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:12,640
Speaker 1: as Trump cabinet nominees lie to Congress, thinking of RFK

1844
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:15,480
Speaker 1: Junior as a prime example, Thanks for your good work. Again,

1845
01:58:17,160 --> 01:58:20,440
Speaker 1: if there were, I think we know if the Democrats

1846
01:58:20,440 --> 01:58:22,800
Speaker 1: were in charge of Congress with a Republican and cabinet

1847
01:58:22,880 --> 01:58:26,520
Speaker 1: number one, Kennedy wouldn't have never gotten confirmed. But this

1848
01:58:26,680 --> 01:58:30,840
Speaker 1: is the problem, right, The Republican Party does not hold

1849
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 1: Republican presidents accountable the way they would hold a Democratic

1850
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:37,360
Speaker 1: president accountable, and the Democratic party does not hold democratic

1851
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:40,920
Speaker 1: presidents accountable the way they would hold a Republican president accountable.

1852
01:58:41,200 --> 01:58:42,840
Speaker 1: I go back to an idea. I believe it's the

1853
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:45,760
Speaker 1: Japanese and what they do in the DA, which is

1854
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:49,000
Speaker 1: the oversight All of the oversight committee should always be

1855
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:52,680
Speaker 1: run by the party out of power, and it just

1856
01:58:52,680 --> 01:58:57,280
Speaker 1: should be always this way. I'm sure it would, you know,

1857
01:58:57,720 --> 01:58:59,480
Speaker 1: if we made the joint decision to do this, it

1858
01:58:59,480 --> 01:59:02,800
Speaker 1: would somehow get weaponized, you know, and maybe get screwed

1859
01:59:02,840 --> 01:59:04,680
Speaker 1: up a little bit. But if you started with that

1860
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:08,880
Speaker 1: basic premise that the party out of power, the leading

1861
01:59:08,920 --> 01:59:15,720
Speaker 1: opposition party would chair oversight, I do think it could

1862
01:59:15,720 --> 01:59:22,280
Speaker 1: bring some sort of Again, what the Trump era should

1863
01:59:22,280 --> 01:59:25,320
Speaker 1: teach all of us is that you can't expect people.

1864
01:59:25,720 --> 01:59:31,320
Speaker 1: You can't expect shame to be a guardrail. Shame doesn't

1865
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:35,800
Speaker 1: work anymore. People have proven when it comes to making money,

1866
01:59:35,840 --> 01:59:39,920
Speaker 1: proven to be super shameless. So that isn't going to work.

1867
01:59:40,040 --> 01:59:41,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's not going to work. So you're going

1868
01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:44,400
Speaker 1: to have to put in all sorts of checks and balances.

1869
01:59:44,760 --> 01:59:47,520
Speaker 1: And I think a big one, and this is one

1870
01:59:47,520 --> 01:59:49,520
Speaker 1: you'd probably have to put in the constitution in some way,

1871
01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:52,640
Speaker 1: but a big one is to put all over sight

1872
01:59:52,840 --> 01:59:56,800
Speaker 1: in the hands of the opposite party of the White House,

1873
01:59:57,160 --> 01:59:59,720
Speaker 1: pure and simple, and that always has to be the case.

1874
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:01,840
Speaker 1: It is the only way we're going to get any

1875
02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:07,400
Speaker 1: kind of legitimacy, legitimate accountability of runaway executives. All right,

1876
02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:09,720
Speaker 1: final question here is Tyler, He says, Hey, Chuck On

1877
02:00:09,800 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 1: Tyler a student at the University of Maryland, go terps

1878
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:15,200
Speaker 1: and a daily podcast listener on my commute to my internship.

1879
02:00:15,200 --> 02:00:17,480
Speaker 1: All Right, since tuning in the summer, I've shifted from

1880
02:00:17,480 --> 02:00:19,880
Speaker 1: mainstream media to more independent voices. Thanks for that. I've

1881
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:21,920
Speaker 1: been thinking about your point that Trump only wants to

1882
02:00:21,920 --> 02:00:24,240
Speaker 1: govern those who support them. In a recent example stood out,

1883
02:00:24,280 --> 02:00:27,360
Speaker 1: FEMA denied disaster aid to Western Maryland despite the region

1884
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:30,360
Speaker 1: strong Republican lean. Curious if you think moves like this

1885
02:00:30,400 --> 02:00:32,480
Speaker 1: could backfire and Republicans in the midterms, or if it's

1886
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:34,960
Speaker 1: two under the radar to matter. Thanks again for all

1887
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:38,760
Speaker 1: the great analysis. So you've heard me point this out.

1888
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:43,040
Speaker 1: This is where I think. I think this is a

1889
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:48,560
Speaker 1: way for Democrats to start courting some Trump voters in

1890
02:00:48,680 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 1: some blue areas. Am I expecting a whole bunch of

1891
02:00:52,800 --> 02:00:55,200
Speaker 1: them to switch over now. But this is how you

1892
02:00:55,280 --> 02:01:00,480
Speaker 1: chip away at it, whether it's those the the flooding

1893
02:01:00,480 --> 02:01:04,000
Speaker 1: at the camp in Texas where FEMA wasn't there in

1894
02:01:04,080 --> 02:01:07,160
Speaker 1: time and sort of it was bad Republican governance that

1895
02:01:07,200 --> 02:01:12,160
Speaker 1: put them in that situation, or what we've seen here

1896
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:15,600
Speaker 1: when it came what you noted with Western Maryland on

1897
02:01:15,720 --> 02:01:20,280
Speaker 1: those disasters, those lack of declaring a disaster. It is this.

1898
02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:25,560
Speaker 1: There is a systemic approach to essentially punish. While I

1899
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:28,680
Speaker 1: don't think it's sadly a useful issue to say, hey,

1900
02:01:29,040 --> 02:01:33,280
Speaker 1: they won't govern for you because of the other political party.

1901
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:36,120
Speaker 1: I think you just point out, for whatever reason, they

1902
02:01:36,120 --> 02:01:40,360
Speaker 1: don't respect you enough here in the state of Maryland.

1903
02:01:40,800 --> 02:01:43,880
Speaker 1: Even though you're a good Trump supporter, you've been a

1904
02:01:44,080 --> 02:01:47,240
Speaker 1: loyal Trump supporter. When you need help, he's not there.

1905
02:01:48,040 --> 02:01:50,840
Speaker 1: You know, regardless of how you vote for well, how

1906
02:01:50,880 --> 02:01:52,520
Speaker 1: you vote, I'm going to be there to help you,

1907
02:01:52,520 --> 02:01:54,880
Speaker 1: because government should be there regardless of who you support. Right,

1908
02:01:55,040 --> 02:01:57,640
Speaker 1: you could you you can make you can hear how

1909
02:01:57,680 --> 02:02:01,160
Speaker 1: the TV AD or the or the digital ad would work.

1910
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:04,560
Speaker 1: I think it's a potentially another it's sort of there's

1911
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:06,360
Speaker 1: no one issue that's going to be a silver bullet

1912
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:08,920
Speaker 1: for these minterms. But I do think between the what

1913
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:12,480
Speaker 1: Mike Johnson has done or not done with the House,

1914
02:02:12,600 --> 02:02:16,200
Speaker 1: what Trump is doing the sort of the unitary leadership,

1915
02:02:16,240 --> 02:02:20,560
Speaker 1: if you will, of Washington. Through Donald Trump, He's actually

1916
02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:24,480
Speaker 1: making it quite easy to run an oppositional campaign a

1917
02:02:24,520 --> 02:02:27,360
Speaker 1: good old fashion. Let's have a check on Trump. He's

1918
02:02:27,480 --> 02:02:29,360
Speaker 1: going to be at forty three to forty six percent.

1919
02:02:29,440 --> 02:02:34,400
Speaker 1: That's an unpopular presidency. It is not a very hard

1920
02:02:34,440 --> 02:02:39,000
Speaker 1: campaign to execute. It is how Democrats won control of

1921
02:02:39,040 --> 02:02:41,320
Speaker 1: the House and Senate No. Six. It is how Republicans

1922
02:02:41,360 --> 02:02:43,720
Speaker 1: one control of the House in ten, is how Republicans

1923
02:02:43,760 --> 02:02:46,160
Speaker 1: one control the Senate in fourteen. It's how Democrats one

1924
02:02:46,240 --> 02:02:50,520
Speaker 1: control of the House in eighteen. That's it's a simple message.

1925
02:02:50,960 --> 02:02:54,240
Speaker 1: It is something that resonates with swing voters because we

1926
02:02:54,280 --> 02:02:57,760
Speaker 1: don't try because here's the bottom line. Here's the bottom

1927
02:02:57,840 --> 02:03:00,880
Speaker 1: line about American politics today in Washington. If you don't

1928
02:03:00,920 --> 02:03:04,200
Speaker 1: have divided government, the moderates have no role in here whatsoever.

1929
02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:07,640
Speaker 1: And when the moderates have no political juice, we can't

1930
02:03:07,640 --> 02:03:10,280
Speaker 1: get things done. I know some of you out there

1931
02:03:10,400 --> 02:03:12,640
Speaker 1: on the left and the right, you know, think the

1932
02:03:12,640 --> 02:03:15,600
Speaker 1: moderates are too squishy to this, to that. But let's

1933
02:03:15,680 --> 02:03:18,560
Speaker 1: be realistic. When we have divided government and moderates are

1934
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:21,520
Speaker 1: empowered to cut deals, the public is a hell of

1935
02:03:21,560 --> 02:03:24,760
Speaker 1: a lot happier without politics functions. Maybe the two political

1936
02:03:24,760 --> 02:03:27,840
Speaker 1: parties don't love it, but the American people seem to

1937
02:03:28,360 --> 02:03:30,960
Speaker 1: like it. And when we don't have divide, like, why

1938
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:32,839
Speaker 1: are we in this mess right now in the shutdown

1939
02:03:33,040 --> 02:03:36,040
Speaker 1: because the moderates have no power and they have a

1940
02:03:36,120 --> 02:03:40,000
Speaker 1: bit empowered. Divided government empowers moderates. When you don't have

1941
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:44,000
Speaker 1: divided government, the moderates have no power, and I think

1942
02:03:44,080 --> 02:03:59,240
Speaker 1: that's the situation we currently are in. All right, before

1943
02:03:59,280 --> 02:04:05,120
Speaker 1: I go, let me do my weekend college football breakdown

1944
02:04:05,160 --> 02:04:08,640
Speaker 1: here a little bit so full confession. I didn't get

1945
02:04:08,680 --> 02:04:12,640
Speaker 1: to watch a majority of the Miami game. I was

1946
02:04:13,280 --> 02:04:16,600
Speaker 1: at one of my favorite charities that I support, the

1947
02:04:16,760 --> 02:04:19,520
Speaker 1: Arlington Free Clinic here in Arlington, Virginia. For what it's worth,

1948
02:04:19,520 --> 02:04:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm a huge believer that you should support charities where

1949
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:25,920
Speaker 1: you live. I live in Arlington. I support the Arlington

1950
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:29,280
Speaker 1: Free Clinic. I support the Arlington Food Bank. You know,

1951
02:04:29,480 --> 02:04:33,840
Speaker 1: if we all just try to help our own communities first, right,

1952
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:38,440
Speaker 1: we can rebuild I think quite a few communities quite well.

1953
02:04:39,080 --> 02:04:41,520
Speaker 1: So I'm a huge believer in that, and that's where

1954
02:04:41,560 --> 02:04:44,120
Speaker 1: I was last night. It was our big fundraising dinner

1955
02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:48,880
Speaker 1: for the Arlington Free Clinic, which essentially it's exactly what

1956
02:04:48,880 --> 02:04:51,680
Speaker 1: it says it is. They don't take any government money,

1957
02:04:51,720 --> 02:04:54,680
Speaker 1: they don't take any Medicaid money. Okay, this is all

1958
02:04:54,840 --> 02:05:01,680
Speaker 1: one hundred percent private donations. I'm grants, and we just

1959
02:05:01,720 --> 02:05:03,600
Speaker 1: take care of people that don't have the ability to

1960
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:07,960
Speaker 1: take care of themselves, can't afford healthcare for whatever reason

1961
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:10,800
Speaker 1: there is. And it's a lot of people who's a

1962
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:13,800
Speaker 1: lot of doctors and nurses who just simply volunteer their

1963
02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:16,520
Speaker 1: time to the Free Clinic, in addition to those of

1964
02:05:16,600 --> 02:05:19,680
Speaker 1: us that can contribute some money anyway. So there's my

1965
02:05:19,720 --> 02:05:21,560
Speaker 1: little shout out for the Arlington Free Clinic. It was

1966
02:05:21,560 --> 02:05:26,320
Speaker 1: a terrific event. Kudos to they're just it is exactly

1967
02:05:26,360 --> 02:05:29,640
Speaker 1: the way the type of charity that they just behave,

1968
02:05:29,720 --> 02:05:31,200
Speaker 1: the way you would want a charity to behave, and

1969
02:05:31,240 --> 02:05:34,240
Speaker 1: they don't waste money. It's not very frivolous stuff. It

1970
02:05:34,360 --> 02:05:38,640
Speaker 1: all just you know, it all goes to what's intended

1971
02:05:38,760 --> 02:05:42,080
Speaker 1: and they also don't bite off more than they can chew.

1972
02:05:42,280 --> 02:05:43,920
Speaker 1: It's been a little bit at a time. Over after

1973
02:05:43,960 --> 02:05:46,600
Speaker 1: about ten years, we added a dental clinic. Anyway, the

1974
02:05:46,600 --> 02:05:52,360
Speaker 1: point is is that it's been. It's it's I'm really

1975
02:05:52,400 --> 02:05:55,160
Speaker 1: proud of the very very very small role I've been

1976
02:05:55,160 --> 02:05:57,320
Speaker 1: able to play to help to help out in my

1977
02:05:57,400 --> 02:06:00,680
Speaker 1: community like that, but what it meant, and this has

1978
02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:02,520
Speaker 1: happened before. I remember there was a big fundraiser for

1979
02:06:02,520 --> 02:06:04,360
Speaker 1: the aringtrem Free Clinic and I missed Game four of

1980
02:06:04,400 --> 02:06:07,560
Speaker 1: the World Series, and that's we're in it. We all

1981
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:09,440
Speaker 1: were freaked out about that, but that's how much we

1982
02:06:09,480 --> 02:06:13,240
Speaker 1: care about this charity. So I missed the live portion

1983
02:06:13,320 --> 02:06:17,000
Speaker 1: of the Miami Stanford game, but I caught those awful uniforms.

1984
02:06:17,080 --> 02:06:20,920
Speaker 1: Yes they're awful. Look, I man, I had been so

1985
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:23,520
Speaker 1: proud of Miami all year long. We had gone we

1986
02:06:23,880 --> 02:06:27,280
Speaker 1: were playing with the traditional unis, mostly the orange tops,

1987
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:29,840
Speaker 1: the white bottoms, all the ones where we win all

1988
02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:33,440
Speaker 1: our national titles. You know, I hate behaving like Oregon,

1989
02:06:33,480 --> 02:06:36,160
Speaker 1: where there's a different uniform every week, and you know,

1990
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:39,480
Speaker 1: we hadn't dabbled in that. I get it. Adidas doesn't

1991
02:06:39,520 --> 02:06:41,240
Speaker 1: pay us a bunch of money at the University of

1992
02:06:41,240 --> 02:06:44,240
Speaker 1: Miami just to use the same old uniform all the time.

1993
02:06:44,280 --> 02:06:45,880
Speaker 1: They want to make a couple of bucks. So I

1994
02:06:45,960 --> 02:06:51,040
Speaker 1: get it, Man, University Miami doesn't fit with the Camo culture.

1995
02:06:51,720 --> 02:06:54,120
Speaker 1: And I say that, I don't mind. I think there

1996
02:06:54,160 --> 02:06:57,560
Speaker 1: are certain like I love the San Diego Padres Camo uniforms,

1997
02:06:58,080 --> 02:07:01,600
Speaker 1: and there's something about San Diego Military town where it

1998
02:07:01,720 --> 02:07:09,040
Speaker 1: feels relevant. It just didn't feel it just didn't feel

1999
02:07:09,080 --> 02:07:13,240
Speaker 1: like the University of Miami. And again I'm not saying

2000
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:17,120
Speaker 1: there's plenty of great veterans that went to the Unisity

2001
02:07:17,120 --> 02:07:20,320
Speaker 1: of Miami. We you know that is not what this

2002
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:24,560
Speaker 1: is about. But there's just not a cameo community. I

2003
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:27,320
Speaker 1: don't know how else to put it. So it felt weird.

2004
02:07:27,880 --> 02:07:30,000
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you wear green and it not

2005
02:07:30,040 --> 02:07:34,840
Speaker 1: feel like the right green? Anyway? Hated the uniforms, please guys,

2006
02:07:35,600 --> 02:07:38,760
Speaker 1: no more. I don't mind the black, the sort of

2007
02:07:38,800 --> 02:07:42,440
Speaker 1: black neon I think, messing around with the little neons,

2008
02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:45,160
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that a little bit either, having some

2009
02:07:45,200 --> 02:07:48,600
Speaker 1: green helmets every once in a while. Look, some of

2010
02:07:48,640 --> 02:07:50,680
Speaker 1: these color schemes haven't bothered me as much as I

2011
02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:53,600
Speaker 1: thought they would all right, I hate the single color

2012
02:07:53,640 --> 02:07:55,960
Speaker 1: color schemes case you're wondering, in case anybody wants my

2013
02:07:56,040 --> 02:07:58,879
Speaker 1: opinion on that. Now, let's talk about the game itself.

2014
02:07:59,360 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 1: Didn't love this start. I have rewatched a little bit

2015
02:08:02,000 --> 02:08:03,800
Speaker 1: of it so I can get a feel of it.

2016
02:08:05,480 --> 02:08:08,520
Speaker 1: This is a pattern of this coaching staff, which is

2017
02:08:08,520 --> 02:08:11,680
Speaker 1: they have a game plan and they're just determined to

2018
02:08:11,720 --> 02:08:14,200
Speaker 1: see if they can make that game plan work, sometimes

2019
02:08:14,200 --> 02:08:16,800
Speaker 1: a bit too long, and then when they finally just

2020
02:08:16,840 --> 02:08:19,760
Speaker 1: go into hey, let's just figure out what works. So

2021
02:08:19,800 --> 02:08:22,280
Speaker 1: the good news is they made a couple of adjustments

2022
02:08:23,560 --> 02:08:25,560
Speaker 1: and they scored thirty five points in the second half.

2023
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:29,080
Speaker 1: It's what should have happened. It's what I expected to happen.

2024
02:08:29,320 --> 02:08:31,320
Speaker 1: I was glad to see the backups go in there

2025
02:08:31,360 --> 02:08:34,360
Speaker 1: and they shoved a touchdown in Mario Christobal never likes

2026
02:08:34,360 --> 02:08:38,240
Speaker 1: to cover the spread. I never those of us Miami

2027
02:08:38,280 --> 02:08:40,400
Speaker 1: fans don't bet on Miami to cover big spreads because

2028
02:08:40,440 --> 02:08:43,240
Speaker 1: we all know this. But I will refuse to ever

2029
02:08:43,240 --> 02:08:46,680
Speaker 1: bet against Miami, so I won't try to take advantage

2030
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:49,720
Speaker 1: of what I think. So anybody that assumed Miami couldn't

2031
02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:51,360
Speaker 1: cover that thirty and a half I'm kind of glad

2032
02:08:51,360 --> 02:08:53,800
Speaker 1: the backups sort of I wanted to see a little

2033
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:56,000
Speaker 1: bit of aggressiveness. So while it was a slow start,

2034
02:08:56,720 --> 02:08:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm mostly satisfied. We got a big game next week

2035
02:08:59,200 --> 02:09:02,360
Speaker 1: at SMU. I'm going to that as some of you

2036
02:09:02,440 --> 02:09:05,960
Speaker 1: might have expected me to be there, since I'm going

2037
02:09:06,040 --> 02:09:10,440
Speaker 1: to have two kids on opposite sides of this game.

2038
02:09:10,520 --> 02:09:16,000
Speaker 1: Of the big Miami SMU matchup here, i will one

2039
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:18,520
Speaker 1: thing that might be on the line. I'm I don't

2040
02:09:18,560 --> 02:09:20,880
Speaker 1: want to start to get too worried or excited about

2041
02:09:20,880 --> 02:09:23,120
Speaker 1: whether or not Miami can make it into the ACC

2042
02:09:23,320 --> 02:09:26,240
Speaker 1: Conference title game or not because of the weird scheduling

2043
02:09:26,280 --> 02:09:28,440
Speaker 1: and the weird tiebreaker rules the ACC. I'm one of

2044
02:09:28,480 --> 02:09:30,560
Speaker 1: those who believes that have all of this stuff will

2045
02:09:30,680 --> 02:09:33,240
Speaker 1: likely work itself out, and the two teams that are

2046
02:09:33,240 --> 02:09:35,320
Speaker 1: in the conference title game are probably the two teams

2047
02:09:35,360 --> 02:09:41,480
Speaker 1: that belong. But if for some reason, Miami's the highest

2048
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:45,960
Speaker 1: ranked ACC team and not in you know, either the

2049
02:09:46,280 --> 02:09:48,480
Speaker 1: you know, a top ten team and they're not in

2050
02:09:48,560 --> 02:09:53,560
Speaker 1: the ACC title game, they probably have to rethink how

2051
02:09:53,600 --> 02:09:58,240
Speaker 1: they do it the ACC that is. But then again,

2052
02:09:58,920 --> 02:10:01,640
Speaker 1: Ohio State lost the Big Ten title game, didn't they

2053
02:10:02,120 --> 02:10:06,120
Speaker 1: how'd that work out for them last year? So all right,

2054
02:10:06,200 --> 02:10:09,280
Speaker 1: a few other things about the rest of the weekend.

2055
02:10:10,400 --> 02:10:15,080
Speaker 1: If I'm Virginia Tech, Shane Beemer is no longer a candidate,

2056
02:10:15,680 --> 02:10:17,680
Speaker 1: I would no longer want him to be my coach.

2057
02:10:17,920 --> 02:10:20,920
Speaker 1: Why do you say that? So let me take you

2058
02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:23,240
Speaker 1: to the fourth quarter of that South Carolina Alabama game.

2059
02:10:23,360 --> 02:10:26,840
Speaker 1: South Carolina had the game potentially in hand. They're up

2060
02:10:26,880 --> 02:10:29,760
Speaker 1: by a point. They score a touchdown, so they're up

2061
02:10:29,800 --> 02:10:33,720
Speaker 1: one point, fifteen to fourteen. They score touchdown, they're up

2062
02:10:34,440 --> 02:10:37,800
Speaker 1: twenty one to fourteen. If they kick the extra point,

2063
02:10:37,800 --> 02:10:40,800
Speaker 1: they're up eight one score. If they go for two

2064
02:10:41,080 --> 02:10:44,560
Speaker 1: and make it, they're up nine, they're up two scores.

2065
02:10:45,000 --> 02:10:50,720
Speaker 1: It is a no effing brainer decision, Shane Beamer, and

2066
02:10:50,760 --> 02:10:53,800
Speaker 1: they just kicked the extra point. This is not the

2067
02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:56,120
Speaker 1: first time this has happened. I believe I pointed this

2068
02:10:56,200 --> 02:10:58,160
Speaker 1: out at a game. I think it was an Iowa

2069
02:10:58,240 --> 02:11:01,480
Speaker 1: State game if I'm not mistaken, and I think it

2070
02:11:01,560 --> 02:11:05,080
Speaker 1: ended up not biting them. This one bit the game

2071
02:11:05,200 --> 02:11:08,640
Speaker 1: cocks right in the you know what, right in the gamecock.

2072
02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:13,400
Speaker 1: And this was a gigantic coaching mistake. How do you

2073
02:11:13,440 --> 02:11:16,360
Speaker 1: not understand this? Math, because even if you don't make it,

2074
02:11:16,400 --> 02:11:18,960
Speaker 1: you're up seven. It's not like Alabama wasn't gonna it's

2075
02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:20,560
Speaker 1: going to go down there and go for two. They

2076
02:11:20,600 --> 02:11:23,840
Speaker 1: would either way, you're looking at a tie game at worse.

2077
02:11:24,440 --> 02:11:27,680
Speaker 1: But if you could go tohead two scores, you're in

2078
02:11:27,680 --> 02:11:33,040
Speaker 1: an entirely different situation. The decision not to do that

2079
02:11:34,240 --> 02:11:36,640
Speaker 1: took away an opportunity for them to win that game.

2080
02:11:36,760 --> 02:11:40,560
Speaker 1: I for the life of me, in all this day

2081
02:11:40,600 --> 02:11:44,400
Speaker 1: and age of the analytics, and you know, and I

2082
02:11:44,440 --> 02:11:46,840
Speaker 1: hear Bill Simmons saying this a lot, I think he's right.

2083
02:11:47,960 --> 02:11:50,320
Speaker 1: More of the I think many of these coaches they

2084
02:11:50,320 --> 02:11:54,440
Speaker 1: don't watch enough football. They watched their film, and they

2085
02:11:54,480 --> 02:11:57,720
Speaker 1: watched the film, and they watch football of the teams

2086
02:11:57,720 --> 02:12:00,360
Speaker 1: that they were, but they sort of don't actually right,

2087
02:12:00,360 --> 02:12:04,040
Speaker 1: They're so narrowed that they don't watch the totality of games.

2088
02:12:04,120 --> 02:12:07,640
Speaker 1: And in some ways, you know, the armchair gamblers. And

2089
02:12:07,720 --> 02:12:09,840
Speaker 1: if I were head coach of a football team, I'd

2090
02:12:09,880 --> 02:12:13,840
Speaker 1: want a gambler who bets and watches games all over

2091
02:12:13,840 --> 02:12:19,120
Speaker 1: the place. I mean, these guys that Vson and Action Network, man,

2092
02:12:19,240 --> 02:12:22,680
Speaker 1: they watch they watch more college football than anybody I know.

2093
02:12:24,240 --> 02:12:26,480
Speaker 1: Get one of those guys as you're sort of like

2094
02:12:26,760 --> 02:12:30,600
Speaker 1: analytics guru. They see so many scenarios because they have

2095
02:12:30,720 --> 02:12:33,560
Speaker 1: money on the line. That's why they care, and they

2096
02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:37,880
Speaker 1: give a darn about it. But gosh, South Carolina, you

2097
02:12:37,920 --> 02:12:41,440
Speaker 1: had every chance in the world to knock off Alabama.

2098
02:12:41,520 --> 02:12:43,960
Speaker 1: You covered the twelve points, which that was a no brainer.

2099
02:12:44,920 --> 02:12:47,720
Speaker 1: You know, that was the sort of the sharp side everybody.

2100
02:12:47,880 --> 02:12:49,840
Speaker 1: There were so many people on that side that I

2101
02:12:49,840 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: started to worry because it was going to become a

2102
02:12:51,520 --> 02:12:56,640
Speaker 1: public side. However, it just drove me crazy because I

2103
02:12:56,640 --> 02:12:59,440
Speaker 1: wanted to see Alabama lose another game number one. But

2104
02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:04,440
Speaker 1: you had the opportunity a r a few things Indiana.

2105
02:13:04,560 --> 02:13:08,000
Speaker 1: Ucla turns out after three weeks of putting all your

2106
02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:10,280
Speaker 1: new offense on film, when you have a really good

2107
02:13:10,320 --> 02:13:13,360
Speaker 1: coaching staff who have the ability to dissect it. Oh boy,

2108
02:13:13,400 --> 02:13:16,520
Speaker 1: watch out. Thanks for playing Ucla. It was a nice

2109
02:13:16,520 --> 02:13:20,400
Speaker 1: little run while you had it. I'm uncle on Indiana.

2110
02:13:20,480 --> 02:13:22,440
Speaker 1: I think we all thought this was a well coached

2111
02:13:22,440 --> 02:13:26,240
Speaker 1: team with players that probably are not big time. That's

2112
02:13:26,280 --> 02:13:31,840
Speaker 1: not true. I am done with that. Texas A and MLSU, boy,

2113
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:33,960
Speaker 1: at halftime, this looked like an upset in the making

2114
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:37,880
Speaker 1: it looked like the nighttime aspects of Baton Rouge. We're

2115
02:13:37,880 --> 02:13:41,040
Speaker 1: going to bite our friends at Texas A and m

2116
02:13:41,280 --> 02:13:46,360
Speaker 1: Boy not at all, and they turned it on. It's over.

2117
02:13:46,600 --> 02:13:50,040
Speaker 1: I think we all know it's over for Brian Kelly. Again.

2118
02:13:50,320 --> 02:13:53,360
Speaker 1: This is a school that has fired two coaches who

2119
02:13:53,400 --> 02:13:57,680
Speaker 1: won national titles, Les Miles and ed Ojeron. You don't

2120
02:13:57,680 --> 02:14:00,160
Speaker 1: think they're going to fire a coach who hasn't won

2121
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:03,840
Speaker 1: a national title at any school he's been at. So

2122
02:14:04,680 --> 02:14:09,000
Speaker 1: if I'm Brian Kelly, I'm starting to court Virginia Tech,

2123
02:14:09,800 --> 02:14:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm starting to court at or A, Wisconsin because those

2124
02:14:16,160 --> 02:14:20,280
Speaker 1: are probably the best openings that he's I don't think

2125
02:14:20,280 --> 02:14:22,760
Speaker 1: of Florida's going to hire Brian Kelly because they're gonna,

2126
02:14:22,760 --> 02:14:24,520
Speaker 1: you know they're gonna. I don't think of Florida's going

2127
02:14:24,560 --> 02:14:27,160
Speaker 1: to hire James Franklin. Right, if you've been let go

2128
02:14:27,240 --> 02:14:28,880
Speaker 1: from one of these big schools because you were a

2129
02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:30,640
Speaker 1: top ten team but you couldn't make it to that

2130
02:14:30,680 --> 02:14:33,600
Speaker 1: next level, I don't think if you think you're in

2131
02:14:33,600 --> 02:14:36,120
Speaker 1: that level, and Florida thinks they are, even though actually

2132
02:14:36,160 --> 02:14:39,760
Speaker 1: they really aren't. They've really been a mediocre football program.

2133
02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:44,040
Speaker 1: For seventy years, with two brief periods of excellence, a

2134
02:14:44,080 --> 02:14:45,880
Speaker 1: brief period with Steve Spurrier and a brief period of

2135
02:14:45,960 --> 02:14:49,840
Speaker 1: Urban Meyer. Every other time they've been sort of, you know, seven,

2136
02:14:50,880 --> 02:14:54,920
Speaker 1: you're more like a consistent seven and four they've really

2137
02:14:54,960 --> 02:14:57,680
Speaker 1: been Wisconsin football, they've not been. They think they're Miami,

2138
02:14:57,760 --> 02:15:01,920
Speaker 1: Florida State or Alabama LSU. They've never They've never been

2139
02:15:02,080 --> 02:15:05,000
Speaker 1: on that level Florida's perceived to be because Miami and

2140
02:15:05,040 --> 02:15:07,720
Speaker 1: Florida State were so strong for so long. It was

2141
02:15:07,880 --> 02:15:11,360
Speaker 1: just small periods that Florida would be. But that doesn't

2142
02:15:11,360 --> 02:15:13,120
Speaker 1: mean they're not going to throw money around like they

2143
02:15:13,200 --> 02:15:15,720
Speaker 1: think they belong in that in that upper tier. But

2144
02:15:15,760 --> 02:15:18,000
Speaker 1: I do think if Lane Kipping can get into the playoff,

2145
02:15:18,040 --> 02:15:20,040
Speaker 1: gets in the Semis with Ole, miss why would he

2146
02:15:20,080 --> 02:15:24,000
Speaker 1: want to go to Gainesville, Oxford, Mississippi is a much

2147
02:15:24,040 --> 02:15:26,240
Speaker 1: better place to live than Gainsville, Florida. Just trust me

2148
02:15:26,240 --> 02:15:30,000
Speaker 1: on that. It was interesting to see Oregon have a

2149
02:15:30,040 --> 02:15:32,480
Speaker 1: bit of a hangover Wisconsin because they did something. Oregon

2150
02:15:32,480 --> 02:15:36,920
Speaker 1: did something that other teams have been able to prevent.

2151
02:15:37,920 --> 02:15:39,960
Speaker 1: Oregon allowed Wisconsin to score touchdown. I don't think I

2152
02:15:40,040 --> 02:15:47,320
Speaker 1: will allowed Wisconsin to score touchdown. Not a lot to say.

2153
02:15:47,720 --> 02:15:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm mildly surprised at byu Iowa State. I think everybody,

2154
02:15:52,720 --> 02:15:55,800
Speaker 1: if I am in the college football Playoff, the team

2155
02:15:55,840 --> 02:15:57,640
Speaker 1: I want to play in the first round is byu

2156
02:15:58,360 --> 02:16:02,840
Speaker 1: I think I don't if maybe they'll luck their way in,

2157
02:16:02,920 --> 02:16:07,400
Speaker 1: but something feels awfully artificial there. We already know UVA

2158
02:16:07,560 --> 02:16:09,920
Speaker 1: is the team with all the luck on their side.

2159
02:16:11,080 --> 02:16:13,280
Speaker 1: I assume the luck runs out at some point on

2160
02:16:13,400 --> 02:16:17,280
Speaker 1: UVA and that they blow it before they get their

2161
02:16:17,280 --> 02:16:20,120
Speaker 1: shot in the a SEC title game. We shall see,

2162
02:16:20,160 --> 02:16:23,320
Speaker 1: but boy do they have I guess you could say

2163
02:16:23,360 --> 02:16:25,840
Speaker 1: they have a horseshoe up there, you know what on

2164
02:16:25,880 --> 02:16:28,680
Speaker 1: that one. And then there was the crazy Texas Misissippi

2165
02:16:28,720 --> 02:16:34,440
Speaker 1: State game and all of the drama around Texas and

2166
02:16:34,840 --> 02:16:38,240
Speaker 1: the morning sort of social media buzz with Steve Sarkisian.

2167
02:16:39,280 --> 02:16:41,160
Speaker 1: I will just say I thought his agent. When your

2168
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:44,320
Speaker 1: agent's Jimmy Sexton, you're never going to be believed. He

2169
02:16:44,440 --> 02:16:46,760
Speaker 1: is sort of the agent of most college football coaches.

2170
02:16:47,160 --> 02:16:51,480
Speaker 1: He he uses the media to get raised. Look, he's

2171
02:16:51,520 --> 02:16:55,440
Speaker 1: a good agent for his clients, but it doesn't mean

2172
02:16:55,520 --> 02:17:01,400
Speaker 1: there's that he's honest in public Okay, and when you

2173
02:17:01,480 --> 02:17:04,480
Speaker 1: look at that denial about Sarkisian, they said it was

2174
02:17:05,320 --> 02:17:11,039
Speaker 1: patently false and then added what were the other words

2175
02:17:11,040 --> 02:17:13,400
Speaker 1: they added there, I made a big deal out of

2176
02:17:13,400 --> 02:17:16,360
Speaker 1: this on X so here I can quickly pull it

2177
02:17:16,440 --> 02:17:20,480
Speaker 1: up here. But it was it was sort of over denial,

2178
02:17:20,720 --> 02:17:24,280
Speaker 1: and there's a point where you over denial things. Right, Oh,

2179
02:17:24,640 --> 02:17:27,320
Speaker 1: this is what it was. So Jimmy sext It puts

2180
02:17:27,320 --> 02:17:30,160
Speaker 1: out a statement that said, any reports regarding communications is

2181
02:17:30,160 --> 02:17:33,080
Speaker 1: about Sarkisian and wanting to be in the NFL. Any

2182
02:17:33,120 --> 02:17:36,400
Speaker 1: reports regarding communications on coaching opportunities with NFL teams are

2183
02:17:36,440 --> 02:17:40,240
Speaker 1: patently false and wildly inaccurate. Okay, if they're patently false,

2184
02:17:41,680 --> 02:17:44,280
Speaker 1: then you don't have to say they're wildly inaccurate. But

2185
02:17:44,320 --> 02:17:47,720
Speaker 1: the minute you add wildly inaccurate, it implies that some

2186
02:17:47,800 --> 02:17:51,320
Speaker 1: part of it had to be accurate because it's wildly inaccurate.

2187
02:17:52,280 --> 02:17:55,240
Speaker 1: But it's sort of like it is. It is an

2188
02:17:55,240 --> 02:17:59,800
Speaker 1: imprecise way. It creates more ambiguity. It says here so

2189
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:02,160
Speaker 1: work is solely focused on coaching the University of Texas

2190
02:18:02,200 --> 02:18:08,080
Speaker 1: football team. I believe he is right now. Anyway, that

2191
02:18:08,200 --> 02:18:12,840
Speaker 1: was that was a classic methinks they doth protest too much.

2192
02:18:13,720 --> 02:18:16,560
Speaker 1: But I have to tell you that sort of rang

2193
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:19,160
Speaker 1: all sorts of alarm bells. If I'm a Texas longhorned fan,

2194
02:18:20,160 --> 02:18:22,880
Speaker 1: is Sark looking at things and going his arch ready

2195
02:18:22,959 --> 02:18:25,160
Speaker 1: his arts thinking about another school? Does he not like

2196
02:18:25,240 --> 02:18:28,879
Speaker 1: the spotlight of Texas? Is there all? What's going on here?

2197
02:18:29,360 --> 02:18:32,880
Speaker 1: It is? You know, he'd rather Sark wasn't oc in

2198
02:18:32,959 --> 02:18:34,879
Speaker 1: the And I think a QB coach in the NFL

2199
02:18:35,520 --> 02:18:38,160
Speaker 1: for a bit during his sort of after he sort

2200
02:18:38,160 --> 02:18:41,039
Speaker 1: of driven out of coaching the first time due to

2201
02:18:41,040 --> 02:18:45,160
Speaker 1: his personal issues, and the NFL was a good place

2202
02:18:45,160 --> 02:18:50,680
Speaker 1: for him to sort of re establish his credentials, and

2203
02:18:50,720 --> 02:18:53,840
Speaker 1: he might be. I have to tell you, as cam

2204
02:18:53,879 --> 02:18:55,960
Speaker 1: Ward supporter, I want to see cam Ward with a

2205
02:18:55,959 --> 02:18:58,000
Speaker 1: great coach because he doesn't have one right now, and

2206
02:18:58,040 --> 02:19:00,680
Speaker 1: he didn't have one the start of this year. Imagine

2207
02:19:00,760 --> 02:19:02,760
Speaker 1: him having an offensive mind like Sark with him. It

2208
02:19:02,760 --> 02:19:04,640
Speaker 1: could be a lot of fun to see what cam

2209
02:19:04,680 --> 02:19:07,760
Speaker 1: Ward can do. So I'll admit I'm happy for cam

2210
02:19:07,800 --> 02:19:09,840
Speaker 1: Ward if that is indeed a direction they will go.

2211
02:19:10,680 --> 02:19:14,960
Speaker 1: But wow, poor Texas because you know, with all these

2212
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:16,640
Speaker 1: you know we're going to have this massive sort of

2213
02:19:16,680 --> 02:19:21,199
Speaker 1: coaching spectacle, And I have a feeling that the big

2214
02:19:21,320 --> 02:19:25,199
Speaker 1: names that move won't succeed. The names we've never heard

2215
02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:28,880
Speaker 1: of that get plucked from obscurity will be the ones

2216
02:19:28,920 --> 02:19:30,880
Speaker 1: that come out of nowhere and have huge success. Did

2217
02:19:30,959 --> 02:19:34,240
Speaker 1: you know who Calen de Boor was in twenty twenty

2218
02:19:34,280 --> 02:19:36,760
Speaker 1: twenty when he was working his way up to become

2219
02:19:36,760 --> 02:19:40,480
Speaker 1: the head coach at the University of Washington, right exactly? So?

2220
02:19:40,879 --> 02:19:42,520
Speaker 1: Did you know who Kurt Signette was when he was

2221
02:19:42,520 --> 02:19:45,160
Speaker 1: sitting over a James Madison when Virginia and Virginia Tech

2222
02:19:45,200 --> 02:19:47,080
Speaker 1: went through coach after coach after coach and they didn't

2223
02:19:47,120 --> 02:19:50,400
Speaker 1: hire him because they thought he was too old. So

2224
02:19:50,959 --> 02:19:55,040
Speaker 1: there's plenty of good coaches out there. I wouldn't be

2225
02:19:55,120 --> 02:19:57,840
Speaker 1: hiring a brand name one. I'd be hiring somebody who's

2226
02:19:57,879 --> 02:20:01,959
Speaker 1: doing some innovating right now in trying and be finding

2227
02:20:02,080 --> 02:20:07,840
Speaker 1: new not finding someone else's tarnished treasure, if you will.

2228
02:20:08,560 --> 02:20:11,960
Speaker 1: So there you have it for what I've seen this week.

2229
02:20:13,600 --> 02:20:16,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how anybody would rank Alabama ahead of

2230
02:20:16,400 --> 02:20:19,160
Speaker 1: text A and M. I think you've put I probably.

2231
02:20:19,520 --> 02:20:23,680
Speaker 1: I think resume wise, you probably have to put Indiana

2232
02:20:24,080 --> 02:20:26,720
Speaker 1: and A and M one two and you could pick

2233
02:20:26,760 --> 02:20:30,520
Speaker 1: your order. And the only reason I'm for keeping Ohio

2234
02:20:30,600 --> 02:20:32,520
Speaker 1: State number one is, hey, they're the defending champs and

2235
02:20:32,520 --> 02:20:34,800
Speaker 1: they haven't done anything not to lose their spot. But

2236
02:20:34,879 --> 02:20:38,400
Speaker 1: they really haven't beaten anybody yet. Then again, it's impressive

2237
02:20:38,440 --> 02:20:40,800
Speaker 1: that they haven't found themselves in a game either. Everybody

2238
02:20:40,800 --> 02:20:43,040
Speaker 1: else sort of has had a little bit of testing

2239
02:20:43,040 --> 02:20:45,480
Speaker 1: here there. Indiana almost lost to Iowa, And by the way,

2240
02:20:46,600 --> 02:20:49,959
Speaker 1: don't sleep on these Hawkeyes. I think when they almost

2241
02:20:49,959 --> 02:20:52,040
Speaker 1: beat Indiana, we all thought oh Indiana was having a

2242
02:20:52,120 --> 02:20:55,160
Speaker 1: rough game. It's at Iowa. My goodness, this is a

2243
02:20:55,240 --> 02:20:58,000
Speaker 1: much different Iowa team. If they had one losses set

2244
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:00,440
Speaker 1: of two, we'd be talking about them in the playoff.

2245
02:21:01,120 --> 02:21:04,320
Speaker 1: If they're a ten and two team, we might we

2246
02:21:04,400 --> 02:21:06,920
Speaker 1: might be talking about it. Are we going to debate

2247
02:21:07,879 --> 02:21:11,440
Speaker 1: the fifth SEC team versus a fourth Big ten team?

2248
02:21:11,520 --> 02:21:11,720
Speaker 2: Right?

2249
02:21:13,360 --> 02:21:21,800
Speaker 1: Could we really be debating Iowa and say Vanderbilt. All

2250
02:21:21,800 --> 02:21:24,240
Speaker 1: depends how many losses. Another thing to keep track of

2251
02:21:24,280 --> 02:21:28,160
Speaker 1: this week. If you're a gambler, teams that acquired their

2252
02:21:28,320 --> 02:21:31,920
Speaker 1: third loss go basically you know you're out of it.

2253
02:21:31,959 --> 02:21:34,680
Speaker 1: If you thought you had a shot at the at

2254
02:21:34,680 --> 02:21:38,000
Speaker 1: the playoff and you've acquired a loss that basically knocks

2255
02:21:38,040 --> 02:21:41,440
Speaker 1: you out. For the most part, that's two or three losses,

2256
02:21:41,480 --> 02:21:44,600
Speaker 1: depending on the conference you're in. Starting I'm going to

2257
02:21:44,680 --> 02:21:47,480
Speaker 1: start to look for that as a as a betting angle,

2258
02:21:49,040 --> 02:21:51,680
Speaker 1: just out of curiosity. And then speaking of betting, I'm

2259
02:21:51,680 --> 02:21:54,880
Speaker 1: going to close with this. We know all these betting

2260
02:21:54,879 --> 02:21:58,959
Speaker 1: scandals are out there. There's two things generally that I

2261
02:21:58,959 --> 02:22:03,400
Speaker 1: do believe on this. One is I think that legal

2262
02:22:03,440 --> 02:22:05,720
Speaker 1: the more we legalize, the more it will be actually

2263
02:22:05,800 --> 02:22:09,240
Speaker 1: easier to find the crooks. Right. I think the fact

2264
02:22:09,280 --> 02:22:12,160
Speaker 1: that we have in some places it's legal, some places

2265
02:22:12,160 --> 02:22:16,480
Speaker 1: it's illegal. You know, California is in Texas. Basically there

2266
02:22:16,480 --> 02:22:18,959
Speaker 1: are two of our largest states where this stuff's illegal,

2267
02:22:19,720 --> 02:22:25,560
Speaker 1: I think invites more of this underground problem. For what

2268
02:22:25,600 --> 02:22:27,520
Speaker 1: it's worth, there is an argument to be made that

2269
02:22:28,240 --> 02:22:31,240
Speaker 1: bringing it out is a good thing you and you'll

2270
02:22:31,240 --> 02:22:34,000
Speaker 1: be able to see it. The second thing, though, is

2271
02:22:35,840 --> 02:22:37,480
Speaker 1: I am one of those who thinks player props are

2272
02:22:37,520 --> 02:22:40,359
Speaker 1: not to be legal. And you could say I'm overreacting,

2273
02:22:40,400 --> 02:22:42,400
Speaker 1: but let me do I just look at it as again,

2274
02:22:42,560 --> 02:22:45,360
Speaker 1: I look at it as consumer protection. I will not

2275
02:22:45,480 --> 02:22:48,280
Speaker 1: bet on player props because I do not believe it's

2276
02:22:48,320 --> 02:22:51,760
Speaker 1: a fair market. It is too easy to corrupt. It

2277
02:22:51,800 --> 02:22:56,800
Speaker 1: doesn't mean everybody that that has a player prop assigned

2278
02:22:56,800 --> 02:22:59,800
Speaker 1: to them is going to it is corrupt. But the

2279
02:23:00,080 --> 02:23:03,400
Speaker 1: but that it's corruptible. We're human beings. Go back to

2280
02:23:03,440 --> 02:23:07,240
Speaker 1: my history lesson with the federalist papers. We're human beings

2281
02:23:07,280 --> 02:23:09,600
Speaker 1: and in some ways you've got to sort of you're

2282
02:23:09,640 --> 02:23:11,440
Speaker 1: going to have to have some rules and laws that

2283
02:23:11,480 --> 02:23:16,440
Speaker 1: prevent human nature from acting upon itself. And you know

2284
02:23:16,520 --> 02:23:18,440
Speaker 1: it is going to be too tempting with that sitting

2285
02:23:18,440 --> 02:23:23,400
Speaker 1: out there. So it is I think we the the

2286
02:23:24,160 --> 02:23:31,240
Speaker 1: we need sort of federal regulation of this UH sports gambling.

2287
02:23:31,640 --> 02:23:36,240
Speaker 1: I believe that the state by state tapetry tapestry is

2288
02:23:36,240 --> 02:23:39,280
Speaker 1: turning into a nightmare on this front. And again when

2289
02:23:39,320 --> 02:23:42,840
Speaker 1: you have some states where it's totally underground, you're going

2290
02:23:42,879 --> 02:23:46,320
Speaker 1: to have more corrupt practices, more mobsters involved, things like that.

2291
02:23:46,920 --> 02:23:49,879
Speaker 1: But the player props, we need to think long and

2292
02:23:49,920 --> 02:23:52,959
Speaker 1: hard about them, long and hard about them. I am

2293
02:23:53,040 --> 02:23:59,520
Speaker 1: I am not convinced at all that this UH that

2294
02:23:59,560 --> 02:24:02,040
Speaker 1: the but there's a good libertarian argument for it, and

2295
02:24:02,080 --> 02:24:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm mostly I'm mostly looking for the libertarian argument to

2296
02:24:05,560 --> 02:24:09,120
Speaker 1: defend gambling, but player props. All of the scandals that

2297
02:24:09,120 --> 02:24:12,160
Speaker 1: we've had in gambling, whether legal or around the world,

2298
02:24:12,920 --> 02:24:17,800
Speaker 1: usually involved when one individual has an outsized impact on

2299
02:24:17,840 --> 02:24:20,640
Speaker 1: the line. Right, you know, table tennis, there was a

2300
02:24:20,640 --> 02:24:24,000
Speaker 1: big scam on that tennis around the world, individual players

2301
02:24:24,320 --> 02:24:29,160
Speaker 1: and player props. All right, enough of my enough of

2302
02:24:29,200 --> 02:24:33,480
Speaker 1: my ramblings. For this Monday, we will take a break

2303
02:24:33,520 --> 02:24:36,200
Speaker 1: for forty eight hours so until we upload a game.