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Speaker 1: Man, Man, right there is flying, ain't he.

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Speaker 2: Docu?

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Speaker 3: You remember kind of watched it as you got on

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Speaker 3: on the pic right there. Yeah, that's a rolex. That's

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Speaker 3: a roly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that should be a rolex. He's playing them before cool.

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Speaker 2: That was in my third year.

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Speaker 4: What was the shade?

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Speaker 5: You remember the shades?

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Speaker 2: Cardier?

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Speaker 5: Cardier?

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Speaker 2: I got a shaves upstairs. I still got him, that's

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Speaker 2: all right?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, h.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 7: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back all the smoke LA All Star twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Bro.

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Speaker 5: I really like your outfit today.

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Speaker 2: Bro.

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Speaker 5: Thanks, I'm a fan of that. I like it. I

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Speaker 5: appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: We got some sponsors in the building today that made

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Speaker 1: this happened. This episode is presented by money Line. We

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Speaker 1: haven't heard that, man, They're back.

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Speaker 5: Huh. Welcome back money Line.

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Speaker 1: Download the app and moneyline dot com to learn more

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Speaker 1: money Line, Make money Easy, and obviously shout out our

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Speaker 1: favorite one of our favorite sponsors, Draft Kings, in the

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Speaker 1: building made it out here.

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Speaker 5: Good to see everybody. Jack.

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Speaker 1: We were working on this one for a minute, or

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Speaker 1: at least I have. I've been on him constantly. Every

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Speaker 1: time I see him, we'll talk and then come on

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Speaker 1: doc one day. You gotta just come sit down with us,

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Speaker 1: and he's finally here. Man, four time MVP, two time

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Speaker 1: ABA Champ, one time NBA Champ. You know, we grew

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Speaker 1: up idolizing MJ. MJ grew up idolizing this man. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show, doctor J.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. Happy to be here, man, good

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Speaker 2: to be here, Good to see you.

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Speaker 5: I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: New documentary out right now, Soul Power, The Let of

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Speaker 1: the A B A is out now on Prime. Actually

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Speaker 1: primes in the building to shout out Prime, We're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk A B A N B A.

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Speaker 5: And just life. I like that, Let's get to it.

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Speaker 2: I like that.

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Speaker 1: Ralph Sampson was passionate about how you should be the logo.

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Speaker 1: Take a look at this clip and you.

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Speaker 6: Guys probably agree that the most psychonic. They always say

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Speaker 6: who's the goat? I don't think to go to somebody

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Speaker 6: that is somebody that plays it. But they transition the

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Speaker 6: game that everybody wanted to be like who is that

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Speaker 6: Doctor Jay?

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Speaker 2: I want to be like doctor Jay. Mike wanted to

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Speaker 2: be like doctor J.

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Speaker 6: Everybody wanted to be like jeous And you can go

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Speaker 6: back to any film you want to and see who

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Speaker 6: dunking on somebody in traffic to Jewis. So the league

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Speaker 6: should change the logo the.

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Speaker 3: Julius I would I would love that he got he

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Speaker 3: got a sick logo, he got a crazy sick logo.

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Speaker 6: But everybody, I mean, the league was bad. Julius played

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Speaker 6: with the Virginia Squires. I used to go watch you

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Speaker 6: can see it on TV and watch in Virginia.

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Speaker 2: But he was the bad boy.

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Speaker 1: In a day and age where unfortunately, homage is not

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Speaker 1: paid enough. I feel like, I feel like there's not

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Speaker 1: a ton of respect for what came before these days.

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Speaker 1: But when you hear something like that from up here, what.

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Speaker 5: Does that mean to you?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a great compliment. I think it's

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Speaker 2: kind of unfortunate that every time you try to get

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Speaker 2: somebody to rise to another level to be recognized, somebody

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Speaker 2: gotta go. So you know, this would involve Jerry West

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Speaker 2: not being there anymore. That's probably the only complicated thing

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Speaker 2: about that. Otherwise, you know, you have two guys up

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Speaker 2: then you can have two logos or what have you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I would be for it, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm well into my seventies and you know, We're losing

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Speaker 2: guys every year in mass and you know, the respect

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Speaker 2: aspect of it though, Yeah, has recognized me, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm the Slam Dunk Champions logo or person a record,

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Speaker 2: and there's probably some other smaller things along the way.

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Speaker 2: So this logo thing, I think it was generous of Ralph,

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Speaker 2: very thoughtful. Probably not gonna happen because of what I

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Speaker 2: said the first time. You know, if somebody comes like,

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Speaker 2: somebody gotta go. And you know Bill Russell, who was

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Speaker 2: one of my heroes and role models, you know he

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Speaker 2: said I he said, I keep it a circle of

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Speaker 2: about fifty and if I add somebody, somebody got to go. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, so he stated that way back when, and

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Speaker 2: it really applies to now.

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Speaker 1: You were once considered the face of the league, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like this league is in a transition of

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Speaker 1: the Lebron's and KT's and stuff kind of moving on

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Speaker 1: and the younger generation coming through. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: is important to have a face or are you comfortable

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Speaker 1: with a handful of guys kind of leading the charge.

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Speaker 2: I think when when I was the face, as you say,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't really thinking about that or or playing to that.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was just the best. I was doing

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Speaker 2: the best of being myself, you know, being the person

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Speaker 2: that my mom raised and that my and I was

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Speaker 2: representing my community, representing my family. So the league and

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Speaker 2: being the face of the league was very secondary. You know,

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Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't. I didn't think about that. You know,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to act. So when you fast forward

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Speaker 2: and you come to now, you know, I think a

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Speaker 2: group of players is the is the way to go.

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Speaker 2: The fact that we have, you know, the majority of

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Speaker 2: our best twenty five players coming from places around the world.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think you should identify one and say, well,

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Speaker 2: this guy is the face of the league. He's carrying it,

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Speaker 2: because there is no one guy carrying it.

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Speaker 1: RH agree. I'm gonna read a quote from Rick Berry.

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Speaker 1: People say to me, I couldn't play with these guys today,

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Speaker 1: I said, and I say, you must be on drugs.

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Speaker 5: You understand how much better I would be.

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Speaker 1: If I were playing today, no strength training coach, no trainers,

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Speaker 1: no dietitians. Obviously there's always comparison some areas, and we're

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Speaker 1: not going to compare players, but obviously playing styles are

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Speaker 1: much different.

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Speaker 5: How do you think your game would have held up today.

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Speaker 2: I agree with Rick, you know, I mean, you can't

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Speaker 2: play unless you're confident in yourself. And it's not to

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Speaker 2: put down others, but you know, self belief is paramount,

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Speaker 2: you know, for you to just have a chance. So

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Speaker 2: if I was out there today, and you know, my

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Speaker 2: nephew always reminds me when certain things happen in certain games,

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Speaker 2: particularly when the ABA is not recognized, you know, and

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Speaker 2: they's not saying this guy the youngest to do this

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Speaker 2: and the first to do this or whatever. And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you go back to some of those

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Speaker 2: ABA stats, I mean that that last Finals, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was amped up, and you know I

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Speaker 2: started the game with forty well, started the series with

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Speaker 2: forty five, came back the second game had forty eight,

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Speaker 2: you know, and then we kind of won going away

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Speaker 2: with the dem Nuggets and you know, they were the

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Speaker 2: best team in the league. They had beaten US, you know,

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Speaker 2: multiple times. So do you go by statistics or you

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Speaker 2: just go by you know, how you feel afterwards. And

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Speaker 2: the statistics are legitimate because you know a lot of

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Speaker 2: people in their job or non job depends on on

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Speaker 2: their stats. So the stats that were posted those years,

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Speaker 2: those those first five years or whatever. All of them

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Speaker 2: got duplicated the next eleven years in the NBA. But

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Speaker 2: you know, some of them are gone forever unless they

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Speaker 2: get resurrected. And you know, hopefully Soelth Soul Power would

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Speaker 2: do some of that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I have a question. If you play today, would

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Speaker 5: you rock the fro or braids?

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Speaker 2: It's got that's a good good because I don't know

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Speaker 2: what braids feel like. You can tell you pulling on

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Speaker 2: your scout braids? Matter of peer pressure or is that

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Speaker 2: just personal preference?

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Speaker 5: I think personal pressure.

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Speaker 3: Some some people want to be like others, but something

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Speaker 3: some people's personal preference. Yeah, some people. A lot of

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Speaker 3: people are following it because a lot of people doing it.

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Speaker 3: But some people just do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well what about your crew? They say, Man, you

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Speaker 2: know you gotta throw we all got braids, you gotta

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Speaker 2: come around.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's that's how a lot of my friends are.

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Speaker 3: We all got braid, we get braids.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I gotta.

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Speaker 1: I got a quick question though, because we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: a little later. But I want to know, like off

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Speaker 1: seasons now or so, and I have kids and it's

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Speaker 1: a year round thing. Now for kids, which I which

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Speaker 1: I definitely don't like, but obviously professional too. It's so

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Speaker 1: regimented with strength training, your dyet. This is even in

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Speaker 1: the off season. What were your off seasons like?

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Speaker 2: Unless I was injured, I was not in the weight room.

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Speaker 2: I went in the weight room even during the season.

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Speaker 2: It was just for rehab, you know. So I never

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Speaker 2: wanted to try to get muscle bound. And you know,

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Speaker 2: my a lot of my game was finesse and quickness

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Speaker 2: and flexibility. So I always tried to stay flexible. And

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Speaker 2: you know, if I did weight, it was lightweight, fast reps.

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Speaker 2: So so that's different than you know, what you see

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Speaker 2: a lot of people do and what you see and

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Speaker 2: what you know some trainers try to have their players do.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, would it be different today, You know, maybe

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Speaker 2: you'd have to keep with whatever the pattern is. You know,

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Speaker 2: I mean look at Lebron's longevity, and you know a

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Speaker 2: lot of that is like Rick Barry said, you know,

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Speaker 2: these these all these things that are available. You know,

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Speaker 2: I saw it one time, you spending five million dollars

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Speaker 2: just on this health and wellness in the off season

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Speaker 2: or whatever. We ain't have five million to spend and

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Speaker 2: just imagine.

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Speaker 3: You can get shots in your knees every summer and

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Speaker 3: bring your knees to feeling brand new before the season.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they doing that. Now, were you guys playing pick up?

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Speaker 1: Would you just relax for a few months and put

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Speaker 1: the ball down? Where'd you run the beats Hills?

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Speaker 2: Like? What kind of hell I did? I did? I

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Speaker 2: did five years of prom pro Summer league, So I did.

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Speaker 2: I did the Ruggle League from age twenty one to

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Speaker 2: twenty five, and then twenty six. You know, I have

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Speaker 2: those knee braces on, and I was feeling it with

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Speaker 2: the ten nighters, and I said, I can't go out

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Speaker 2: in the concrete anymore. Much as I love to be

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Speaker 2: out there, I love to be, you know, playing for free.

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Speaker 2: And you know, mistakes really didn't get registered anywhere. People

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Speaker 2: sitting at the court side their feet on the court,

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Speaker 2: you know, and they just they're just looking and it

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Speaker 2: just gave you energy that you know, I mean, you

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Speaker 2: don't know where it came from the guy. It had

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Speaker 2: to come from them, uh. And it was uniquely different

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Speaker 2: than you know, playing a structured game like we did

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Speaker 2: in college or even with our pro teams or whatever.

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Speaker 2: That freelance piece and I think, you know, you probably

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Speaker 2: only played freelance so long because you know, coach got

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Speaker 2: to have his say so so fortunately, uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: I had pretty good coaches who you know, gave me

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Speaker 2: a little bit of room to operate, as they say,

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Speaker 2: especially in my first five years.

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Speaker 4: Shout out to old Regimel. I saw him last night.

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Speaker 4: He ran up on me too.

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Speaker 3: He thought we were starting on him for the Kaitlyn

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Speaker 3: take on our show that day. I told him, I say, Reggie, though,

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Speaker 3: you gotta admit everybody in the world thought she was

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Speaker 3: going to say a better player than Peyton Pritchett. I'm

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Speaker 3: just sorry, bro, you know, I just I wouldn't know.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't even seen it was funny to me until

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Speaker 1: we shot the segment. I hadn't I didn't know Kaitlyn

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Speaker 1: Clark was right next to him and the next way

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Speaker 1: she went to a booble face when he said it,

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Speaker 1: like yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to og for coming up with this game

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Speaker 3: factor fiction. We're gonna do factor fiction with the ABA

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Speaker 3: versus the NBA. All right, Og Factor Fiction, you, along

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Speaker 3: with the rest of the A B A Birth, the

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Speaker 3: Tunnel Fit Walk, you know, all the players stopping the

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Speaker 3: tunnels with their fist.

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Speaker 4: Now get pictures. Didn't y'all start that back in the day?

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Speaker 2: Clearly, man, clearly, clearly. I don't know how those people

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Speaker 2: got back there, yeah, but they were always back there

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Speaker 2: in pregame, post game or whatever. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: after we showered and got cleaned up, when we came out,

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Speaker 2: and tunnel had all kinds of people, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: loved ones were there, but then there was there was

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Speaker 2: other people. They followed us all the way to the car. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, some people wanted to get in the car

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Speaker 2: with you were going tonight. We ain't going nowhere.

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Speaker 4: Everybody like that though, everybody what's stepping out first?

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Speaker 1: Like that?

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Speaker 4: Though?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that wasn't even in the tunnel. That's natural outside

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Speaker 2: the building. I was trying to find my way.

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Speaker 3: In fact of fiction, the NBA was a dying, boring

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Speaker 3: spot sport before the ABA merger.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it was dying, but it was boring,

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Speaker 2: uh to some aspect. I watched Old Gingela a lot,

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Speaker 2: you know, and he he was still and what I

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00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 2: saw in Alginbela, I was like, oh man, I need

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Speaker 2: to play like that. I mean, I just hoped, and

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Speaker 2: I was probably twelve years old, and I was saying,

264
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,960
Speaker 2: look at this guy man left right going through the battle,

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Speaker 2: changing hands and grabbing rebounds and taking it down and

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Speaker 2: setting people up and whatever. And he had that little

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Speaker 2: little thing that he did whatever, because I thought it

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Speaker 2: was the nerve whatever. But I said, he faking people.

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Speaker 2: What's going on now? He can't help that. Don't don't.

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Speaker 2: Don't talk about that. Yeah, but uh yeah, so brown

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Speaker 2: Ball League called it the brown Ball League. It was,

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Speaker 2: it was. It was the best in the world reportedly,

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Speaker 2: and uh so I didn't have any any hang ups

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Speaker 2: about talking to the A B A and you know,

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Speaker 2: learning about the A B A because uh it clearly

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Speaker 2: was definitely a more exciting adventure NBA.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Fact to fiction, the ABA was the first integrated

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Speaker 4: workplace in the country percentage wise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were there were other places that were integrated,

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Speaker 2: but the ABA was more than fifty percent.

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Speaker 4: Fact to fiction. Red Auerbuck hated the ABA.

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Speaker 2: That's a fact. That's a fact. And you know it

283
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 2: was so funny man, when I when I when I

284
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Speaker 2: first met him, since I went to UMAs and I

285
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,000
Speaker 2: was right down the road, I was ninety miles down

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Speaker 2: the road. Well, well, I went to college and you

287
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 2: know I had two good varsity seasons and a fresh

288
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Speaker 2: season that was that was pretty good. And all he

289
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,720
Speaker 2: said to me was, you should have been a Celtic.

290
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 2: The whole time he said you could have been a Sealthic.

291
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Speaker 2: He said, you got a great game or anything, blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah, with nothing complimentary or whatever, just that you

293
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Speaker 2: should have been a Celtic because because they had regional

294
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Speaker 2: draft privileges in six Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you had first refusal,

295
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Speaker 2: almost first take on the ones in your area, college

296
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Speaker 2: in your area. That's the way it used to be.

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Speaker 2: That was a fact. That's crazy. That was a fact.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, interesting factor. Fiction. Darnelle Hillman taught you how to

299
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Speaker 5: style your afro.

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Speaker 2: Fact what Tipsy give you? Fact. Donald had the baddest

301
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Speaker 2: afro ever, even even Hollywood didn't have an afro as

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Speaker 2: good as his. And he could jump and he could fly.

303
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 2: Know so, I mean he wasn't my Elginbala yeah or whatever.

304
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Speaker 2: But we hung out a lot, and you know, we

305
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 2: had a lot of meals together and he he actually,

306
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 2: you know, took me through the whole thing with the

307
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 2: with the cake uh the cake knife, not the cake knife.

308
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 2: It was the one thing with proms on it and

309
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Speaker 2: you slice cake with it. You know what that is

310
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Speaker 2: what they call it.

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Speaker 5: I don't know the name of it.

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00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, So everybody had the afro picks, but he had

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Speaker 2: the cake thing, cake thing. Man, he could take it

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Speaker 2: out like that.

315
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Speaker 5: You got.

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Speaker 2: Out of the comb out of that cake thing was

317
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 2: a black but not the black comb. No, this was

318
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Speaker 2: this was silver. I feel like they made the calm afterwards.

319
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Speaker 2: Probably the cake.

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Speaker 5: The cake dag, we'll find it.

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Speaker 2: No women, the women don't know either, and it's not

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Speaker 2: happen any the cake.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's hard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was a fact, man, Yeah, fact of fiction.

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Speaker 3: The NBA didn't let players grow afros in the seventies,

326
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Speaker 3: early early seventies.

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Speaker 2: In the seventies. You know, when I got to the NBA,

328
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Speaker 2: I had my fro for maybe a season or two,

329
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Speaker 2: and then I personally start cutting my hair. So now

330
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Speaker 2: I start wearing suits. I don't. It wasn't it wasn't enforced,

331
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Speaker 2: you know, there was rew enforcement.

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Speaker 4: Fact to fiction. There was a fight almost every night

333
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Speaker 4: in the ABA.

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Speaker 2: Well it was either a fight or there was a

335
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:39,400
Speaker 2: story about it. But I would have to say violence

336
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 2: was there, and you know, the assumption was the same

337
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:47,280
Speaker 2: thing was going on in the NBA. Why there was

338
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 2: such violence, it was because you know, they let it go,

339
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 2: you know, and they weren't stopping play and holding it

340
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:03,199
Speaker 2: up and reviewing it and and issuing penalties. And uh,

341
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,920
Speaker 2: the very players, very few players got fined. Uh the

342
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,199
Speaker 2: way you get fined in the NBA if you got

343
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 2: into a fight. And then there was some guys, man,

344
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 2: they were just looking for trouble. I was just looking

345
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 2: for trouble, man. These were jobs and somebody saying I'm

346
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,600
Speaker 2: gonna get there by hook or crook. And really, you

347
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 2: think during the season there were fights during the training camps.

348
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 2: That's when my first year, uh with the Virginia Squires,

349
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,479
Speaker 2: I was in a scrimmage and uh, I just come

350
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 2: off the summer playing in the rugby league, right, So

351
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 2: I was, you know, feeling my oats whatever, talking on

352
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 2: a lot of people. And Uh, I couldn't dunk in college,

353
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 2: so chains came off. I was dunking in the rugby league.

354
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 2: I got to Virginia, we got the training camp. We

355
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 2: were in Richmond, I believe, and uh, the first five

356
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 2: minutes the trainer he told the coach to take me

357
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,159
Speaker 2: out the game, and when I got off to the sideline,

358
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:20,719
Speaker 2: they said, I'm taking you out because these guys are

359
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,360
Speaker 2: trying to hurt you. You know. So he was protecting

360
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 2: the property and the training camp if he had free

361
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 2: agents there. We had some guys came in off the street,

362
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 2: you know, we had the guys who were drafted. Willie

363
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 2: Soljiern and I were drafted, so we uh so. So

364
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 2: they were really trying to protect so they knew what

365
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,639
Speaker 2: was going on, and that was a real experience. It

366
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 2: was like hockey back then.

367
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 3: We're gonna keep one girl dude on the teams, just

368
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 3: sent him out there and just clean up. Yeah, it

369
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 3: just hurt somebody, the enforce her, right, yep. What do

370
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 3: you hope that people take away from this new documentary

371
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:58,879
Speaker 3: about the ABA.

372
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: I think I think there should be maybe a benefit.

373
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 2: First and foremost in my mind is, you know, the

374
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 2: guys who didn't make the cut, so to speak, because

375
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 2: they had they had a draft, a dispersement draft of

376
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: the players who were not on the teams that went in.

377
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 2: So four teams went in, three teams didn't. So there's

378
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 2: thirty six players who were on rosters and suddenly overnight

379
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 2: they're unemployed. Half of those guys got picked up in

380
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 2: the dispersal draft and the other health they were left

381
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 2: defense for themselves. And there were issues that were not

382
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 2: resolved with the agreement in terms of pension and other

383
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 2: medical benefits and so on and so for long term

384
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 2: and short term. So it was really fair. Plus the

385
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 2: ABA franchises had to pay to get in, you know,

386
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 2: and it was already a league that was struggling financially

387
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: because you know, with some of the teams, you know,

388
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: players were complaining about checks bouncing and so on and

389
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 2: so forth. So it wasn't the best deal. But I

390
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 2: think it was pressured by the Nets and the Nuggets

391
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 2: because they applied for membership into the NBA and they said,

392
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 2: screw everybody else, We're gonna We're gonna go in. We

393
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: gotta we gotta survive. And as it turned out, ownership

394
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 2: changed hands with those franchises too. And I think the

395
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: Nets have kind of been plagued throughout the history of

396
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: the merger because they haven't had a team. They've had

397
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 2: teams go to finals, but not uh not not get

398
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 2: the chip. And San Antonio has flourished and I don't

399
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: think Indiana's want a championship either, but uh or Utah.

400
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was blessed to be able to play in

401
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 3: the Rutger. You know what I'm saying, your time was

402
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: the essence was the creation. Look at this picture and

403
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 3: tell them.

404
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 2: What you unbelieve.

405
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: Let's people at the top of the building right there.

406
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: Take us back to this moment right here with the

407
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: r What kind of shoes were you playing in?

408
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 5: That was definitely converse.

409
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 4: That's definitely converse.

410
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 2: That's converse, yeah man.

411
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 4: And that's some good tube.

412
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: I ain't have no knee braces on.

413
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 5: Young days.

414
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that'd be first or second year. And the

415
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 2: dies out people made it happen. I mean, look at

416
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 2: those people on top of buildings. Crazy and there's a

417
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: train station in the back. There's trees, people in the

418
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 2: trees and were playing on the pavement. So that's raw,

419
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 2: you know, up and down on the pavement. If you

420
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: if you can't go on pavement, don't step out there.

421
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 4: And no insoles in the shoes, but that was like

422
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 4: three pair of socks.

423
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so they want to ton of outside

424
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: of yourself. As far as other pros playing there at

425
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 1: the time. Were there many pros or were you one

426
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: of the few?

427
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 2: I was. I was the rookie on the block.

428
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,479
Speaker 5: You know, Connie Hawkins was out there, Okay, so there

429
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 5: were more pros out there.

430
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: Let's see the guys from the Knicks and the guys

431
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: I played on the team that predominantly had guys from

432
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 2: the Nets. So I had Billy Paulps and Billy and

433
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: Alie Taylor and jumping Johnny Green, you know, played during

434
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: that time. And he was a guy who lived in

435
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: my town that I lived in Long Island, Roosevelt. So

436
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: I used to walk past his house because he was

437
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 2: playing with the Knicks. So that was that was a

438
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: big deal. You know, I'm the guy in your neighborhood

439
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: playing for the playing for the New York Knicks and

440
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: the so he was he was in the Rutger. Well

441
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: those guys who aren't playing in the NBA. Yeah, Pa

442
00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 2: pee Wee Kirkland and Earl Manigold and uh uh. They

443
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: had who's this guy from from Marquette and they called

444
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: him the helicopter. You just go up and hover and

445
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: he stayed there block your shot, Herman, the helicopter knowings,

446
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 2: that's what they call the handle and he can't get

447
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 2: to wherever you wanted to get.

448
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 5: He was short though, right he was.

449
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: He wasn't he was big. And you know it's funny.

450
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: We were leaving the hotel, man Muggsy Bogues came around

451
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 2: the corner. Hey, Doc, what's up? Damn five six?

452
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, five five doing?

453
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: He was doing, Yeah, he was doing the do Yeah.

454
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: But so there were a lot of pros, and it

455
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 2: was a pro summer league. So you know the guys

456
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: Walt Frasier and Earl you know, Earl Monroe, they would

457
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 2: show up and it was once a week in the summer,

458
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 2: and maybe it was ten weeks, ten weeks. So Charlie

459
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: Scott introduced me to the league because he, you know,

460
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: came out of college a year before me and his

461
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 2: team drafted me. And he was a star of the team.

462
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: And you know, it was the Charlie Scott Show, and

463
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 2: then it was uh, then it was Doc and Charlie

464
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: and Doc, uh great Scott, Charlie, the Great Scott, Julius,

465
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 2: doctor j Irving. You know, so I got I got

466
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: co billing with Charlie and we were rolling. Man. We

467
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: had we had a great season. He averaged like thirty three,

468
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: average twenty eight. And we were all offense. You know.

469
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: It wasn't nobody playing no defense. It was all off hey.

470
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: And then uh, April came, we got down to the

471
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: home stretch and Charlie rolled out. Man, he went and

472
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: signed with the Phoenix Sunshow. Really, you know, and I

473
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: was like, oh, is this our works? And then he

474
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 2: never came back, never came back. But I still see

475
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: him today. Man. I was like, Charlie, you baulted on us.

476
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: You got me all hooked.

477
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 4: Into you know, money reasons.

478
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: But you know what you know who replaced him?

479
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 4: George gerbon Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah you can when.

480
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: George gerbin Man, George could scored as much as Chili,

481
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: but he did it in a different way. Yeah, he

482
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 2: did it in a different way. So having those two

483
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: guys as teammates, well, I was young, I was only

484
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 2: twenty one, twenty two.

485
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 5: I got to know.

486
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 4: I can see some of that footage you and Ice

487
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 4: on the court together on the same thing.

488
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I gotta go watch some of that.

489
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be great, Yeah, that would be great.

490
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: Drafted to the ABA by the Virginia Squires. Is it

491
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: fair to say that Spencer Hay would kind of clear

492
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: the path for you to come out of college.

493
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 5: A year early.

494
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, And the story is told and Spencer's story

495
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 2: is told and soul power. But yeah, what he did,

496
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, left school after one year and

497
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: just realized his family situation. He needed to do something

498
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: about it, you know, I mean his mother was you know,

499
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: down south picking cotton and with a bad back and

500
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: all that. So he said, I got to do something.

501
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: I need to start making money. And you know, history

502
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: is an amazing story, but he's the one who opened

503
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: the door. Clearly.

504
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: What did that first ABA check mean to you? At

505
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: the time you're making about one hundred and twenty five

506
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: thousand a year, What did that first check mean? And

507
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: what was your first all right?

508
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,479
Speaker 2: Actually I was very disappointed. I was very disappointed because

509
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: my contract said four years, five hundred thousand dollars half

510
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: million dollars one twenty five a year, payable over seven years.

511
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: So now we got the seven year thing in there,

512
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: so we got so we got so that that makes

513
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: it seventy one. So now seventy thousand a year, and

514
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: we had an advance of ten thousand, so I had

515
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: some money in my pocket I signed. So when I

516
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: got that first check, the ten thousand was taken back.

517
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: So my check was about ten thousand dollars, you know,

518
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: And I mean it was more than one than I had.

519
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: But it was kind of like a wake up call, Okay,

520
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: this is this is big business.

521
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 5: And they chopped.

522
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, they chopped. They chopped that up. Man, they chopped

523
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: that up. So I was looking at I, you know,

524
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: ordered the car and was doing some things and trying

525
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: to upgrade the family stuff. And I got this check. Man,

526
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: I was like looking at it, like this check nowhere

527
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: there seventy one. Uh. And I don't even think it

528
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: was ten, man, it was probably like eight.

529
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 5: What was what was the first car you got? What

530
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 5: was the Cadillac?

531
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: I had a car in college, Okay, so yeah, and

532
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: il before and I was even thought of.

533
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: So I had uncle. That uncle was my father's brother

534
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: and uh, and he gave me like a sixty two Chevy.

535
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: And I got out of high school sixty eight, so

536
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: six years old, and he had put the car together.

537
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 4: You was cleaned around that time. You was rocking good

538
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 4: run the.

539
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: Time he put the car together. Only problem with this

540
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: car was when I made right turns, the home would

541
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: blow so people people was waving at me all the time.

542
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: I was waving back. I ride around Embers, Massachusetts, waving

543
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: at everybody every time I made her turn. So we

544
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: used to laugh about it. And uh, when I when

545
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: I find he signed, I had, you know, kind of

546
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: falling in love with a little sports car. I'm going

547
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: to get a little sports car. But I took three

548
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: of my friends, so we ended up with a Mark three.

549
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: There ain't no way near a little sports car, oh man,

550
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: I said, I ain't never taking friends and go buy

551
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: a car and talk because you know they were sitting

552
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: in the back. Man, it's kind of tight back here.

553
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: We need more room all this. And I'm still friends

554
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: with those guys right now. But I don't take it

555
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: when I go to buying, I ain't do it. I

556
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: can't do it.

557
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 4: I ain't do it.

558
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: You once said your best three years as a pro

559
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: was seventy four, seventy five, seventy six, all in the

560
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: NBA with the New York Nets.

561
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 5: What was it about that time and where do you

562
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 5: feel your game was at that time?

563
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 2: You know, I always kind of looked like looked at

564
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: this thing like I was in lou Al Cinder's shadow,

565
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: you know, because we both came out of New York.

566
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: He came out a couple of years ahead of me,

567
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: and he was, you know, from the city and I

568
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: was from the suburbs and whatever, but just in comparisons.

569
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: So I always, you know, looked at his accomplishments in

570
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: college and you know, being the best player in the game,

571
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: high school, college, whatever. So that that was the bar.

572
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: That's where the bar was. You know, everybody else was

573
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: maybe reachable, but he was not reachable, and not in

574
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: the exact terms. So there was a lot of gratification.

575
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: You know, when we swept the Lakers in eighty three,

576
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: it was like man relief. You know, I ain't in

577
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: that shadow no more, thanks to Moses and others. So

578
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: seventy four or five and six, and I was co

579
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: MVP one year with George McInnis and the other two years.

580
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: I was MVP in seventy four seventy six and had

581
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: to give him his his props. And there was a

582
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: reason why too talk about that a little later, maybe,

583
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: I think with Kevin Lockery and you know, even though

584
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: all of my coaches were former players, you know, he

585
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: was a guard and guards are supposed to be coaches

586
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: on the floor or whatever. So he was true to

587
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: form in that regard where when he came off the floor,

588
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: he was already to coach. He didn't need, he didn't

589
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: need this break in period. And in all fairness to

590
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: Billy Cunningham, he needed a break in period, and he

591
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: had Chuck Daly right there, so he had a good

592
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: break in period. But it took three or four years

593
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: and then he got it. And when he got it,

594
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: he owned it. But Lockery owned it right from day one.

595
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 2: And you know when I got traded to the nets,

596
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: every was in position for you know, me to go

597
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: from good to great. And the greatness came from uh

598
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: the coach basically saying, look after first quarters, well maybe

599
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: at halftime, he come over. He says, we got this

600
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: game plan and we've gone through this multiple times and

601
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: it ain't working. So you need to do some stuff

602
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: out there. You need to do some stuff out there

603
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: to make us look like we know what we're doing.

604
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: And why did he say that? So we had we

605
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: had isolation plays, we played up tempo, and on the

606
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: defensive end, you know there was there was just free

607
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: them where I knew if even if I made a mistake,

608
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: I wouldn't gonna get yanked out of the game. And

609
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: you know when you when you have that, and you

610
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 2: guys have had that at one place or another or

611
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 2: another or whatever, it's just like ski's the limits. Anything.

612
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: Anything could happen, you know, you and Iceman always talks about. Man,

613
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 2: we came to town. We were putting on a show

614
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 2: and it was it was like that putting putting on

615
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 2: a show and you know, not being micro managed and

616
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 2: and not worried about anything because you know, mistakes happen.

617
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 2: The game is all about making mistakes, and who makes

618
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: the less mistakes sometimes is the one that prevails or whatever.

619
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: But you're going to make mistakes. And if you don't

620
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: try stuff, trying to play the perfect game, uh, you

621
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: know that's not gonna work. So so I think those

622
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: those three years, the first year, uh, our chemistry, we

623
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 2: just came together and you know, we we won that.

624
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: We won that championship against Utah. We played well against

625
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 2: every team in the league. Second year we played played well.

626
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: I think we had best record, we at home court advantage,

627
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 2: and but there was a fatigue factor because we had

628
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: played through the finals. The previous year, and at the

629
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 2: end of the season, you know, we're still grinding it

630
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: out and whatever, and you know, playing everybody's for the

631
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: starting lineers, playing long minutes and what have you. In

632
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: that first round, man Saint Louis took us out. We

633
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: had beaten the mic eleven times this season and we

634
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: were gassed. We were gassed, and Lockery said, okay, next

635
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: last month of the season, you could leave town. You

636
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 2: could just stay home. Whatever. I'm not playing in the

637
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: fourth quarter. See whatever you're gonna do, you better doing

638
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: three quarters. So I was trying to do it in

639
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: three quarters. And I had like a twenty nine point

640
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: scoring averaging with twenty eight seven twenty six. But that

641
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 2: wasn't the deal. The deal was getting the rest before

642
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: the seasons, before the playoffs started. And then that last year,

643
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: you know, Denver was a better team, but you know

644
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: we we were a better playoff team, and we were

645
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: and we were ready and we had rested players, particularly me,

646
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: And I remember that like it was yesterday because I

647
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: wasn't happy about not playing the fourth quarter. Yep, yep.

648
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: You had the stat but you had to throw the

649
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: stats away. You know, it's not about the stats. Now

650
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 2: and he was right. It was right.

651
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: Helped two questions before we go on, what was the

652
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: chemistry like when George Gervin came, was there?

653
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 4: Who who was?

654
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's funny.

655
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 4: Y'a'm ready because y'all the too coolest cat you come across.

656
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, when George came, I went to UH I went

657
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: down to the arena because they I knew they were

658
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: bringing them in. And all I knew was he was

659
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: a bad man. He was from Detroit and went to

660
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 2: Eastern Michigan and he got a little trouble, he got

661
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: booted from the team, so on and so forth or whatever.

662
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: So I didn't know whether it was badass guy, good

663
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 2: guy whatever, you know. And he came in and he

664
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: was like, you know, six seven one sixty something whatever.

665
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: I was like, look at this dude, man. And then

666
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: he started shooting because they had him shooting around the

667
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: perimeter the three point line, shooting for his contract.

668
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 5: Really he was.

669
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: He was flip it up there so easy. I was like, damn,

670
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: it's bad bad right here right. And his boy was

671
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 2: with him, who was always with him, this guy. So

672
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: so he gets signed on the team and they want

673
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: to I'll be Yankee wanted to bring him off the bench.

674
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: So he bought him off the bench and George, you know,

675
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: I was scoring like thirty. George was going like fifteen.

676
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: But it was easy fifteen because he's just coming off

677
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: the bench and he was content with that. He was

678
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 2: just happy to be employed and be a squire. So

679
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: as a way of bonding, I like to because this

680
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: happened to me. Ray Scott did it with me. Where

681
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 2: after practice he said, you stay and do some extra

682
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: work with me. So Ray Scott did that with me.

683
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 2: So I said, I used to do that with George. Everybody.

684
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: We'd be in there playing one on one and uh,

685
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: you know, we we developed a bond, you know during

686
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: that time.

687
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 5: And what were those games like that? One?

688
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: So I think one on one physically, uh, you know,

689
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: he could outshoot me. There's a new question because my

690
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: game wasn't just shooting, you know, taking it to the

691
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: rack by by by a gay get way off you

692
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: you know, shoot it. I think I probably won most

693
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: of the games, I would have to say in equivocally

694
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: because I was a little more experienced and I could

695
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: be more physical than him. But I can see how

696
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 2: good he was. I can see how good he was,

697
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: and and you know, and I honored that because we

698
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: only played together half a season. I don't even think

699
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: it was a half season, because he came in the

700
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: midpoint and then he played the rest of that season,

701
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: and then the next year I was gone. It was

702
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 2: his team. It was his team, and he was his

703
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: team till he got traded to San Antonio. But the

704
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: experience that we had together, we've we've held on to

705
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: that all these years, you know, even with the Big

706
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: Three stuff. We were down there now and you know,

707
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 2: we got stories to tell. Anybody asked, we got some

708
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: stuff to tell them from our Virginia Squire's days.

709
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: How did you as an individual look at the NBA

710
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: as you're thriving in the ABA? What was kind of

711
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: like what did you guy, what was the perception of

712
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: them or what was the their perception of the ABA?

713
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: I thought the NBA and planning in the NBA was

714
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: in eventuality. Uh, you know, it was going to happen,

715
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 2: and we weren't dying to get over there, but the

716
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: reports were. And we had friends, you know, like my

717
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: my my agent was a guy named Erwin Wiener, so, uh,

718
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 2: you know, Wiener and Fraser Sports Enterprises. So Clyde was

719
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: part owner, part owner of the business. So my NBA

720
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: connection was basically through Clyde Fraser. And you know, Clyde

721
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: used to take me shopping, you know, want me to

722
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: get into stuff that he was wearing.

723
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 4: I'm glad you didn't.

724
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 2: I was like Clyde. I was like, Clyde, I'm not

725
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: gonna wear that. Clyde would come you know, he had furs, Kyle,

726
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 2: whatever he held, he would find this stuff. And uh

727
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 2: so we used to laugh about it because you know,

728
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: he's from Atlanta, but you know New York. He driving

729
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: the rolls and Clyde was Clyde. There was only one Clyde,

730
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: one Clyde Fraser. So so so that was an experience

731
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 2: and that was how close I got to the NBA

732
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: through him and through experiences with him, and I knew

733
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 2: that there would eventually that there would be one league.

734
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 2: Now actually the agent who set up the meeting for

735
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: me to go and explore the opportunity, business opportunity while

736
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: I was a junior and I finished my junior year,

737
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 2: I made like third team All Americans during that time.

738
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: And we had a meeting in Philadelphia and it was

739
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 2: supposed to be exploratory. So I called my high school coach,

740
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: so he came from Long Island. And who else was there?

741
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: Two guys from the Squires, Johnny Kerr, Johnny Red Kerr

742
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: and alb Yankee who was the coach. So we had

743
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: a hotel. It was in a motel, and we spent

744
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: a whole afternoon in there talking about the a's and

745
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: b's of what's going on. And my takeaway was that

746
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: the leagues were gonna merge within two years. They said

747
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: two years from that point. So this is nineteen seventy one,

748
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: so they said by nineteen seventy three it was gonna

749
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: be a merging the two leagues. And the guy, the

750
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 2: agent who was in there, he was he was continuously

751
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: insistent on that, and Wilt and Russell had just had

752
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: that contract situation where you know, Wilt had signed for

753
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand a year and Russell said, I want

754
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 2: one hundred and one dollar because I'm the MVP, because

755
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: he was the MVP of league. So you know, this

756
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: was all this was already in the universe and newspapers

757
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 2: or whatever, and then these guys start coming in and

758
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: talking about one twenty five. I was like, and they said,

759
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: I said, what's that gonna look like in two years?

760
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: And they said, oh, it's gonna be about thirty you know,

761
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: maybe thirty maybe maybe less. Twelve thousand dollars signing bonus

762
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: and twenty thousand compensation. So I called my mom and

763
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: I said, I'm in a situation. Said, I'm not at

764
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: school right now. I'm in Philly and this pro basketball

765
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: team wants me to sign with them. Who are they?

766
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: The Virginia Squires. Who are they? I said, I don't know,

767
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 2: but I think they got money. So so my mom,

768
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: my father, my stepfather worked for the sanitation apartment, and

769
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: my mom had a hasslon and they were bringing in

770
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 2: about fifteen thousand, the two of them, and they were

771
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: working hard. They were working hard, and I told them

772
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: the numbers. She was saying, well, you went to college

773
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: to graduate, so if you do anything, you just promised

774
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: me you go graduate. That was the green light because

775
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: I said I could work under graduation. I could be

776
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: a part time student, and now became a full time athlete.

777
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: So the next day we signed, We signed, and all

778
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: that other stuff began to happen. We made it.

779
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, after the mergery land in Philly with the

780
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 3: seventy six. This is a crazy story. They said the

781
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 3: Knicks could have had you, but they decided to take

782
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 3: three million dollars in cashes.

783
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 5: That's true.

784
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 2: They took the money from the Nets because the Nets

785
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: were invading on their territory. After the merger had happened,

786
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: Nets were in their territory, so the NBA created a

787
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: territorial invasion clause or whatever, and you know, Nets had

788
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: to pay them. So the Nets had to get something

789
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 2: for me. So they got six million dollars from the

790
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 2: sixers and then my contract was six million dollars.

791
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 4: So no, so no Knicks. Would you like to be there?

792
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 4: Would you love to be there?

793
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 3: Oh?

794
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: The Knicks would have been great. I mean, uh, I

795
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 2: can stay in the same house over in Nassau County

796
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 2: and Upper Brookville and you know, started my family. So yeah,

797
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: that would have been ideal. Uh would have been a

798
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,959
Speaker 2: whole different story, I think family. Yeah, the Knicks would

799
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: have been a different story. Milwaukee would have been a

800
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 2: different story. Playing with Kareem. Yeah, with Kareem, Yeah, he came. Uh,

801
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: he joined him for one year and they won the championship,

802
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: and then the Hawks would have been different because I

803
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 2: signed a contract with the Hawks.

804
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 3: So.

805
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: I never signed with the Knicks or the Milwaukee Bucks.

806
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: But I did sign with the Hawks, I signed with

807
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 2: the Squires, signed with the Nets, and that side with

808
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 2: the Sixes, So I had four different contracts during my career.

809
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: I was blessed to be able to learn a lot

810
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 3: from him, and coming up in Houston, he used to

811
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 3: always come even when he wasn't playing his way out

812
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: the NBA, he was coming by and playing pick up

813
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: with his mostam alone. Oh yeah, I was grace to

814
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: know him. You tell me some stories about him, which

815
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: I our relationship was like, yeah, somebody.

816
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: We had a great relationship. It's so funny because when

817
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: he got introduced to pro basketball, I was on the

818
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: Nets and when the first time he came into New

819
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: York and they asked me to introduce him, you know.

820
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 2: So you know, I just stood up, got the microphone

821
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 2: and just start talking. And I think I said something

822
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: to the fact of, you know, all right, you know

823
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 2: now that you had pro basketball, you know you've been

824
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 2: you've been swimming in the water with these little fish

825
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: dominating them. Now the fish are bigger, you know, are

826
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: you ready to jump into the pond, something corny like

827
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 2: that or whatever, and you know how moves were already. Man,

828
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: I'm ready, just give me the ball. In that day,

829
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: I think he had twenty something rebounds. You know, we

830
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: played them and he was with Utah nineteen years old,

831
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: and I didn't know that down the road we would

832
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: be teammates. But when we got the opportunity to get

833
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 2: him in Philadelphia, as you know, our record was going

834
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 2: to the finals three times in six years and coming

835
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 2: away empty handed. And went to the finals with Daryl Dawkins, Calwell, Jones,

836
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: Harvey Ketchings, and our thing always seemed to be getting

837
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 2: out rebounded, and just our inside interior defense wasn't that great,

838
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 2: even though Carwell and Harvey were pretty good defensive players.

839
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: So when we got the opportunity to get Moses because

840
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 2: he was disgruntled, it just changed everything. And I think

841
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,479
Speaker 2: from day one, and Verice Cheeks says it best. He said,

842
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: from day one in practice, he said, I knew we

843
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: were gonna win the championship just the first practice because

844
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: this man, when he showed up for practice, he was

845
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: already sweating, you know, because some guys take a long

846
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 2: time to get warmed up. And all that kind of stuff.

847
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: Moses was drenched. I didn't want to get near him,

848
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: and we used to laugh about that. Yeah, he came

849
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: and he established himself and the city fell in love

850
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: with him because of his work ethic that you know,

851
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: not his talent, And the talent was like hidden behind

852
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: his work ethic, because he can get on that baseline.

853
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 2: He could hit the jump shot, he made his free throws,

854
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 2: you know, close to free throw shooter, and and you

855
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: know he hit you on the fly outlet passes and

856
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: go along or whatever. So he did, he did all

857
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: in everything, and he was he was all and everything

858
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: to us because we had all the pieces. He had

859
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: all the pieces, you know, me and Bobby Jones playing forwards.

860
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: We had Mark Irony and then Cheeks and Tony's you know,

861
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 2: yeah cheeks and Tony Man cheeks. Uh, why are you

862
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 2: looking at him like that's your guy too?

863
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: No, all, I liked him as a player. I didn't

864
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: like him as a coach. Charles Markley once said that

865
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: Moses Malone kind of helped save him. I said he

866
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 1: was fatten out of shape, and Charles took that the heart.

867
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: What do you remember about the young Charles?

868
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 2: I kept seeing his upside and uh, he was he

869
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 2: was hard headed. He had something to say about everything.

870
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: And if he didn't play is as good as he

871
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: can and as well as he was capable of playing

872
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: or whatever. Then some of the things he did wouldn't

873
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: be tolerant rated, but they were tolerated because you know,

874
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: he was exceptional man. He can you know, he could rebound.

875
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: It take a coast to coast make plays and for

876
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 2: his height, the rebound, the way that he did, you know,

877
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 2: it was incredible, it was incredible. It was It was

878
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 2: kind of disruptive because we had won the championship before

879
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 2: the year before he got there, and then the year

880
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: that he got there, we had to make room for him.

881
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: And he almost killed Marker Ivroni because Ivarni was playing,

882
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: you know before, and child was like, that's my spot

883
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: right there. This is going back to violence in the

884
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: game because the next man up be a you man.

885
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 2: He he get irony at his back. He backed them

886
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: all the way out to the top of the key.

887
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 2: And then uh, and with Moses, you know, Moses stayed

888
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: on him. Moses used to ride him because Mos always

889
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: in shape. And you know, funny, you wouldn't see Moses training.

890
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 2: I don't know where he trained at. He was always

891
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: I never seen him no weights, I never seen him

892
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: running and you know, but he was definitely training.

893
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 5: He was always something in shape.

894
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: And you, like you said, you don't when him come in.

895
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 2: You never seen him.

896
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 4: He was in his late forties, early fifties.

897
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, still playing up, running up and down the court,

898
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: you know, working Tim Duncan, I work, even David Robbinson.

899
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 3: He was working a lot of those guys out. He

900
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,839
Speaker 3: worked came out and Kevin Cato. Yeah, he was still

901
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 3: playing with us around the time I was a teenager.

902
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 3: He was still getting up and down the court. But

903
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 3: the biggest thing that, like you said, we was getting

904
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: from him was he was teaching while he was playing.

905
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 3: He was teaching all of us, you know, how to

906
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 3: and how to be professional too. Yeah, yeah, I missed Moses.

907
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: Yeah you know what his line was, he said, what

908
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: you're going to do with uh? This is Doctor Jay's team.

909
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 2: He said, well, maybe it's doc show, but maybe it

910
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: to be a better show with me. He used to talk.

911
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: He always come up with these Yeah.

912
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know we're a little short on time, but

913
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: I definitely want to get through this little part right here,

914
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: Larry Bird. Yeah, ultimately, you guys pushed each other to

915
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 1: the max. You guys have the infamous fight in Philly.

916
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: You guys are throwing them, You're choking them, He's swinging.

917
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: What was what was it like competing against him?

918
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: Well, the competition against Larry, I mean started with Havlichick

919
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 2: Cowen's Jojo White, and the probably with Will and Bill Russell,

920
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 2: Philly versus Boston. The history in Boston Philly, the rivalry,

921
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I was I didn't you know, I went

922
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 2: to school in Massachusetts, so I didn't hate the Boston

923
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 2: tell when I was in Massachusetts. But once I went

924
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 2: to Philadelphia via Virginia, New York York and then in Philadelphia,

925
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: then it's like, Okay, we can't like these guys. And

926
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 2: Quinn Buckner was on their team, and Quinn and I

927
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 2: were cool. We were boys and whatever. So that started

928
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: and way before Berg got there, way before Berg got there.

929
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it was with haveing chicken and teams they had.

930
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 2: We didn't like them. The year they won the championship,

931
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: we knocked them out in the first round, and and

932
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 2: there was just a rivalry. Man, there was a love

933
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: hate rivalry with with with Boston and Philadelphia. So I

934
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: think because the cities were competitive in all sports across

935
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: the board, we had to just join the club. We

936
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: had just join the club, and they felt the same

937
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: way about us, right, And the irony of that is,

938
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: you know, Larry and I did stuff together.

939
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. Right, We're looking at a video game cover right here?

940
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 5: Was this before or after the fight?

941
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 2: This was?

942
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 5: That was before it was kind of ripped up too.

943
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: That was before man, that was that was the video

944
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 2: still out there in the universe somewhere.

945
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 5: Licensing deal with was it?

946
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 2: Yeah?

947
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 4: Did you get stocked.

948
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: Sports? Did you get some spots? Got fifteen thousand shares?

949
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 4: Oh?

950
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 5: Nice?

951
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

952
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 5: Sports?

953
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 2: And uh, we did converse together, and me and him

954
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 2: and Magic, three of us were first three converse guys.

955
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 2: Well I was there first and then UH signed them.

956
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: So it was a rivalry.

957
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: Uh.

958
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: You know the fight incident. You know, I generally don't

959
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: have too much to say about it because you don't

960
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 2: want to dignify.

961
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 5: You know, a bad event and competitiveness.

962
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: That happened, and yeah, that happened in the blink of

963
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 2: an eye, and then it got carried all over the

964
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: universe because people coming up to me, can you sign

965
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: this picture? And I'm looking at a picture.

966
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 7: Hold his neck? He hold my neck. If I had

967
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 7: to fight side of this ship was Larry Bird? Yeah,

968
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 7: Lar Bird.

969
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: The next two guys, Magic Johnson spoke on how you

970
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: were a huge mentor in him picking him up from

971
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: the airport, and a few years later you're battling against

972
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: them in the finals. And then also not a few

973
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: years a few months months later, talk about what what

974
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: did you see in a young rookie year? What did

975
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 1: you see in a young Magic the total package?

976
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 2: If you could say that, I be I didn't know

977
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: in college he was as good as he was and

978
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 2: uh uh you know, they had won the whole thing.

979
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: Uh so he got a lot of publicity and uh

980
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 2: ironically there were a couple other tall guards in the league,

981
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 2: but none who could do the things that he did.

982
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: And and you know, he just he carved his own way.

983
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 2: And I think, uh, the first coach he had, they

984
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 2: fired him, didn't they. Yeah, Yeah, so here we go,

985
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 2: you know, with the coaching situation playing the role that

986
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 2: it did, because you know, my first two coaches, I'll

987
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 2: be Yankee and then Kevin Lucker made all the difference

988
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: in the world in terms of change coming off and

989
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 2: you know, getting out and being able to be free

990
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 2: running isolations for you and stuff like that. So so

991
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 2: there was a there was a shift with first coach

992
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 2: being fired, next coach, and he's a he's a coach

993
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 2: on the floor anyway or whatever. So sometimes its just

994
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 2: somebody being a good listener makes makes a difference. And

995
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: then when you got Kareem back there or right, I

996
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: just I just say, man, this this is kind of

997
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 2: ideal because I think Kareem is responsible for putting eight

998
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 2: or ten players in the Hall of Fame, you know,

999
00:57:54,920 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 2: and Magic can take some of that credit. But you

1000
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: know that that combination was tough it' stuff. We chased them.

1001
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 2: We chased them three times and took a while to

1002
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 2: catch him.

1003
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: Got them on, We got them, got him once. Yeah,

1004
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: a nice one too. Mjson record saying you're his idol.

1005
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: Some say he obviously admired your game, but also off

1006
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 1: the court, the business blueprint, because you were a first

1007
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: to do a lot of the branding partnerships of EA

1008
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: Converse the business side of basketball as well. Did you

1009
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: kind of see that from Afar?

1010
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You know, I think it's a necessity because the

1011
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: sports temporary. You can only play so long. And I

1012
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: wish I knew then what I know now, right, you know,

1013
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 2: I might have played a short period of time. You

1014
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: have to build more in the business sector, just in

1015
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:49,479
Speaker 2: terms of preparation for life or generational lea, setting things

1016
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 2: up for family and kids, grandkids, great grandkids or what

1017
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 2: have you. Yeah, I look at that, and you know,

1018
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 2: all you do is never enough, because the universe is

1019
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 2: so big and there's so many opportunities out there, and

1020
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's like rolling the dice sometime. I mean,

1021
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: we had some winners and we had some losers, and

1022
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: you know, we tend to talk about the winners and

1023
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 2: rebel and the joy of the winning. But just like

1024
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 2: in sports man, those those defeats, they hurt and they

1025
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: took their toe, you know, so everybody has them.

1026
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1027
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: This segment is presented by stock x, a trusted source

1028
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: for the most coveted drops. In nineteen seventy six, you

1029
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: signed a deal with Converse, the first professional basketball player

1030
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: to officially endorse a signature sneaker.

1031
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 5: How did that deal come about?

1032
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: I was playing in the Ruggle League. A guy who

1033
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 2: worked for the newspaper in Harlem. I forgot what the

1034
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 2: name of the newspaper was, but it's probably still there.

1035
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 2: He approached me and said, I want to introduce you to,

1036
00:59:55,960 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 2: you know, some people from Converse, and I was I

1037
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 2: was wearing a shoe called Chimme Old C H E

1038
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 2: M O L D. And that was a company open

1039
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 2: Queens and I was wearing their shoes.

1040
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 5: That sounds like they hurt your feet? Did they were?

1041
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 2: They were? They were okay, because you know when you

1042
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 2: when you in that era, you just played period, just played. Man.

1043
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 2: It wasn't about wasn't about complaining, wasn't about it wasn't

1044
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: about complaining.

1045
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 5: Don't go that far you might not be here.

1046
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that first year came about through just being

1047
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: approached and playing in the rout League, being sent out there,

1048
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 2: and I don't even remember the economics associated with it,

1049
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 2: but it was, you know, it was very special and

1050
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 2: and I think it came about, I'm going to reconden

1051
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 2: saying this because of doing p s as you know,

1052
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I did I did PSAs, you know, Mother's

1053
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 2: March against Cancer and Salvation Army and I did PSAs

1054
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 2: for those entities, and I thought wall street or businesses

1055
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: saw that and said he'd be a good pitch math

1056
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 2: for us, right, you know, so that was the path

1057
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: way to that. And I've advised many young people, man,

1058
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 2: do the free stuff, you know, the paget page stuff

1059
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: will come back around.

1060
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: Will come around. Yeah, yeah, real quick. The dunk contests,

1061
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: uh you know, the free throw line, the hair. I mean,

1062
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: you inspired so many and today the dunk contest always

1063
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: doesn't live up to what it used to. But what

1064
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: was it about that first dunk contest you got into

1065
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: and and how the aura of that still lives today.

1066
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,439
Speaker 2: I think it's amazing that it does live the way

1067
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 2: that it does today. And uh, I was sneaking recently

1068
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 2: because uh, you know, Larry King and was in the

1069
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 2: Marvin Barnes and artist Gilmore, David Thompson and uh George

1070
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 2: Gervin and myself. So that crew right there. This is

1071
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 2: the term, yeah you got any hitters. And the other

1072
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 2: already is that this dunk contest filled in the halftime

1073
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 2: of the game. So so the economics because it was

1074
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 2: the Denver Nuggets plays the rest of the A B

1075
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 2: A kind of like some of the stuff they do now.

1076
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 2: So we had the A BA All Stars, and then

1077
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 2: we had the Denver Nuggets because they were first place,

1078
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 2: they had the best recond league and it was their

1079
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:45,919
Speaker 2: home court, right, so I think they wanted to put

1080
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 2: a rock band or something in there at halftime.

1081
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 5: And the deal kept falling through, so they said, I

1082
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 5: know we do.

1083
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 2: We have a slam dunk contest.

1084
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 5: That's how it came about.

1085
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 2: This is the actual, the actual, the real deal. And

1086
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 2: they let it and we signed up for it to

1087
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: do it, I mean almost on the spot, right and

1088
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 2: and suddenly, uh, we're we're in the middle of it,

1089
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 2: and the crowd is loving it. Oh man, I love

1090
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 2: this whatever. I'm damn David Thompson, you know, you got

1091
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 2: some hops. He's gonna do some stuff here and uh

1092
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 2: and they didn't have any uh substitute dunks if you

1093
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 2: miss so, like what happened to me and Larry Nance

1094
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 2: when we win the finals in the first NBA uh

1095
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 2: slam dunk contest. I missed one. That was it that

1096
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 2: open the door for Larry you know, because he was

1097
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 2: doing the same dunk all over and over and over

1098
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 2: that when they looked like whatever the human helicopter. Yeah,

1099
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 2: So David missed one and that was like the break

1100
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 2: I went last dunked it from the foul line, one

1101
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 2: of the first slam dunk contests. So down, and then

1102
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: you know, I do think about historically the way they

1103
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 2: look at it now and they look at me, could

1104
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 2: have been David right there and what he missed?

1105
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: Quick hitters. First thing to kind of mind. Let us

1106
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: know one album you can listen to with no skips

1107
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 1: that man.

1108
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 2: Marvin Gay, come on, come on, going on? What's going on?

1109
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 4: Five dinner? Guess dead or alive?

1110
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 5: You plus five plus five?

1111
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 2: Then I guess all right, Let's take Martin Luther King Jr.

1112
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 2: Put him in there, Jesus Christ, and do I like,

1113
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 2: put Michael Jordan in there and talk to him at would? Yeah?

1114
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 2: I want to. I want to be on his mind.

1115
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 5: And that's three.

1116
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's three. Bill Russell, nice, yeah, nice legend. Be

1117
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 2: good to do that again. I know I had a

1118
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 2: lot of dinners with him. Man, he showed me so much.

1119
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 2: They showed me so much.

1120
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 5: Who's saving that last seat for rushing me? Oh? Your team,

1121
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 5: your team said you gotta get on the road.

1122
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 2: So we don't want to make nobody mad. We can.

1123
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 5: We can still have another thirty week. You skipped the

1124
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 5: whole page and stuff.

1125
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: We want to ask save that seat.

1126
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 5: Okay, I like that.

1127
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: Well, Doc, thank you for your time. We appreciate you.

1128
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: You know what you meant to the sport on and

1129
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: off the court. You know still stands tall today. And

1130
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 1: and thank you for finding some time to come through

1131
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: and hang out with us for a little bit.

1132
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 2: Man.

1133
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 3: And let me say, the last seven years been on

1134
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 3: for me, you know, to be able to work with

1135
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 3: you every year, build a relationship, feel like a little

1136
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 3: brother to you now. So I'm just honest to have

1137
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 3: a relationship I have and I appreciate you coming all right,

1138
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 3: little brother, sir.

1139
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: And he's got his big seventy sixth birthday this year, right, Yes,

1140
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: six birthday, Man's special man, so happy early birth.

1141
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 2: Have summoned me.

1142
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 5: There you go next week, summon.

1143
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: Me congratulations man, and I'll be out at your golf

1144
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: tournament later in the summer.

1145
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 5: You good to see you, Jay, you m hm.

1146
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, hm mm hmmm.