WEBVTT - #418 Maggie Freleng with Nikki Zinger

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<v Speaker 1>One Friday morning in nineteen ninety one, Nicki Zinger and

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<v Speaker 1>her boyfriend Daniel Rischer decided to drive down to Shreveport, Louisiana,

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<v Speaker 1>for the day. The couple were both in their twenties

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<v Speaker 1>and they lived in Magnolia, Arkansas. Daniel was in a

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<v Speaker 1>band and he needed to take his guitar amp to

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<v Speaker 1>a repair shop in Shreveport, about an hour and a

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<v Speaker 1>half away. They stopped off to pick up some magazines

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<v Speaker 1>at the home of Nicki's mother, Linda Holly. Linda was

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<v Speaker 1>already at work, so Nicki left her a note and

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<v Speaker 1>the two set off. When they got back that night,

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<v Speaker 1>they drove past Linda's trailer.

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<v Speaker 2>They mean because it was a little light. I figured

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<v Speaker 2>she was in the bed, because when we went by

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<v Speaker 2>the house the house was dark, but I thought the

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<v Speaker 2>car was in the front yard.

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<v Speaker 1>The next day, Saturday, Nicki called her mother over and

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<v Speaker 1>over but was unable to reach her. On Sunday, Nicki

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<v Speaker 1>and Daniel drove over to Linda's house and when they

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<v Speaker 1>got their cops were everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>So when we pulled up and I asked what was wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>and when they tell me that my mom was dead,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't understand why, because it just seemed make can

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<v Speaker 2>be sinned. She couldn't be dead because she wasn't dead

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<v Speaker 2>when I left.

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<v Speaker 1>Linda Holly had been viciously murdered, stabbed, and bludgeoned to death,

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<v Speaker 1>and Nicki and Daniel were soon the primary suspects.

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<v Speaker 2>My I mistaking danger and not being locked in for

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<v Speaker 2>thirty one years for crome. I have not committed.

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<v Speaker 1>From lov of for good. This is wrongful conviction with

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<v Speaker 1>Maggie Freeling today, Nicki Zinger.

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<v Speaker 2>To accept this free call breath one to refuse the

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for using securis. We may start the conversation now, Hi, Nikki,

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<v Speaker 2>are we ready?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm here, It's Maggie.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, we're a really neat talking kid home something us?

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<v Speaker 1>Nicki? Yeah, we do. But let's get this interview, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we'll catch up because we don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>We don't want to miss this. Nicki Zinger has been

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<v Speaker 1>incarcerated at the McPherson Unit in Newport, Arkansas since nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety two, and Nicki and I have been friends since

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<v Speaker 1>I first covered her case in twenty twenty for my

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<v Speaker 1>podcast on' Justin Unsolved. Nicki's story has haunted me since then,

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<v Speaker 1>and after listening to this episode, I think you will

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<v Speaker 1>hear why. All right, Niki, so let's start at the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me about growing up. I know you

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<v Speaker 1>were born in Chicago, but you moved to Arkansas.

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<v Speaker 2>My mom left my dad when I was just a baby.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we went to live with my grandmother, who

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<v Speaker 2>lived in Magnolia at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Nicki Zinger was born in nineteen sixty three. After they

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<v Speaker 1>moved to Magnolia, her mother, Linda Holly, raised Niki on

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<v Speaker 1>her own.

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<v Speaker 2>My dad was never a part of my life because

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<v Speaker 2>he was always drinking and drugging. He was mentally and

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<v Speaker 2>physically abusive to both. As I got older, he tried

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<v Speaker 2>to come see me a few but he was always drunk,

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<v Speaker 2>and my mother asked him, can you not come see

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<v Speaker 2>your only child sober? Because he was flushing me one

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<v Speaker 2>day and he pushed me out of the swings and

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<v Speaker 2>he just left me there.

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<v Speaker 1>Linda was a nurse and worked as a director with

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<v Speaker 1>the health department, but Nicki says she could have done

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<v Speaker 1>more with her life.

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<v Speaker 2>She was smart enough to be a doctor. She just didn't,

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<v Speaker 2>I think because of me, because of my problem I

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<v Speaker 2>was born with a club foot in a foot drawn

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<v Speaker 2>and I was born paralyzed and a throw from the marine.

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<v Speaker 1>And that meant that Nikki needed constant care.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm in the hospital for like three four

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<v Speaker 2>months with my foot. I'm almost upside down because I

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<v Speaker 2>gotta have pins in my pans and all my toes

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<v Speaker 2>and a cast, and I got an upside down so

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<v Speaker 2>I won't get a food cloth. So you really can't

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<v Speaker 2>do anything. I missed a lot of the child my

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<v Speaker 2>childhood being in the hospital.

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<v Speaker 1>Even when she was home in between operations, Nikki had

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<v Speaker 1>to wear a cast day and night. She rarely went

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<v Speaker 1>to school, so Linda homeschooled her.

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<v Speaker 2>I had no friends because I had to go every

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<v Speaker 2>o the year for so many years. If you're friends

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<v Speaker 2>with me one year and I'm out the next year,

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<v Speaker 2>you're not gonna keep you know, you're you're a child,

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<v Speaker 2>so you're not gonna keep trying to be my friend.

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<v Speaker 2>So I really never did get posted anybody because I

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<v Speaker 2>was never in school.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell me about growing up with your mom. You

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<v Speaker 1>guys really were each other's people. She was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>your best friend. She took care of you when you

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<v Speaker 1>were having all your health problems to tell me about that.

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<v Speaker 2>She was. She was my playmate, She was my everything.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know any other way. I mean, I couldn't work,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, I stayed home and did the little things.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm saying. We just got to do

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<v Speaker 2>and everything. If we went to the sonic or went

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<v Speaker 2>to the drive whatever drive through, we sitd in the

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<v Speaker 2>park a lot sometime and just have a big bas

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<v Speaker 2>and just watch everybody. If me and my mother traveled,

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<v Speaker 2>it was just me and my mother. She did it.

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<v Speaker 2>Lay in the bend and play video games with me,

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<v Speaker 2>or the TV or the movies, or just outside playing,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm saying. And that was just happy

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<v Speaker 2>with me.

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<v Speaker 1>Nikki and her mom did everything together. They were happy

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<v Speaker 1>in each other's company. But still Linda wanted more for

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<v Speaker 1>her daughter, have.

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<v Speaker 2>A good career, have a good lie, not to worry

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<v Speaker 2>about things, you know what I'm saying. She didn't want

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<v Speaker 2>me to have to work hard like she did. She

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<v Speaker 2>didn't want me to have to worry about the things

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<v Speaker 2>that she worried about, or the man that she had

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<v Speaker 2>picked like my father.

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<v Speaker 1>As a teenager, Nikki was interested in boys. She was

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<v Speaker 1>curious about dating, but she wasn't quite ready to strike

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<v Speaker 1>out on her own, to.

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<v Speaker 2>Be honest with you, making my mother, making my mom

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<v Speaker 2>go and dragon so we could look at boys. She

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<v Speaker 2>would take me to Tonic. We would look just look,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm saying, Just drive around and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, so you didn't. I actually never do that. So

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<v Speaker 1>you and mom would go look for boys together.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just go look on my not. I didn't date

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<v Speaker 2>a lot because I always lived was so shy because

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<v Speaker 2>of the scars on my leg or because when leg

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<v Speaker 2>was bigger than the other. So my mom said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>let's just see this.

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<v Speaker 1>Then in her early twenties, NICKI did meet someone. When

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<v Speaker 1>they got married, she thought Larry would take care of her,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's not how it turned out.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know a lot of things about Larry until

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<v Speaker 2>after I got married. And he drank a lot. I

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<v Speaker 2>knew he drank some, I didn't know that he had

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<v Speaker 2>drank that bad. And he wouldn't want to leave and

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<v Speaker 2>come in late at two o'clock in the morning. I said,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't do that, this is my mom found. So

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<v Speaker 2>he when he did late, and he would try to

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<v Speaker 2>bang on the door, and my mother wouldn't let me in,

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<v Speaker 2>and he just got out of hand and he was

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<v Speaker 2>getting real verbal abusive and stuff like that, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I just just got a divorce. I don't ever regret it.

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<v Speaker 1>How long were you married for?

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<v Speaker 2>Not even six months?

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<v Speaker 1>With Larry out of the picture, Nicki and her mom

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<v Speaker 1>went back to their quiet life together. By now, they

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<v Speaker 1>had sold her grandparents' house and moved into a new place,

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<v Speaker 1>a brand new double wide trailer.

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<v Speaker 2>He had two bathrooms, two bedrooms, a living room, a

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<v Speaker 2>TV room, and then the master bedroom had his own bathroom,

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<v Speaker 2>home TV room, like a little apartment.

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<v Speaker 1>Linda continued with her job at the health center, and

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<v Speaker 1>Nikki pitched in by babysitting and working at a nursery

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<v Speaker 1>when she wasn't watching TV or listening to her favorite music. So, Nikki,

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<v Speaker 1>I know that you in your past maybe still are

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a rocker. What kind of music did

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<v Speaker 1>you used to like?

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<v Speaker 2>Me? Yeah? You? Oh my god, I was like ACDCA

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<v Speaker 2>or Van Highland or Journey. That was back when I

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<v Speaker 2>was a little bit of a young person.

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<v Speaker 1>And then when Linda was forty five, something happened that

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<v Speaker 1>would upset the balance of their life together. Linda's struggle

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<v Speaker 1>with how to tell her daughter the devastating news.

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<v Speaker 2>And I happened to come home early, and I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>why is the PaperWorks sitting on my bed? So I

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<v Speaker 2>turned it on and it was her talking. That's when

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<v Speaker 2>she told me that she had cancer. I was devastated

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<v Speaker 2>because I had to know how to act and to

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<v Speaker 2>deal with the feelings because cancer makes you so through

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<v Speaker 2>so much.

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<v Speaker 1>Their lifetime roles were reversed and Nikki became her mother's caretaker.

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<v Speaker 1>What kinds of caretaking things did you have to do

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<v Speaker 1>for her?

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<v Speaker 2>I'd make the bed or cook. We went and got

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<v Speaker 2>her a wig. We learned how to eat better because

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<v Speaker 2>she had to change the way she ate to get

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<v Speaker 2>the vitamin into that the chemotherapy and the radiation was

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<v Speaker 2>taken out of her. So we had bought a steamer,

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<v Speaker 2>so I learned to steam the vegetables that she liked.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'll just cooked. And she still worked because she

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to. Because she didn't she said she would drop

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<v Speaker 2>her cray see. So when she come in, I would

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<v Speaker 2>fix her bath, have her dinner ready and we would

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<v Speaker 2>just watch Tippie or whatever. She if she wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>go outside and walk some We would go out there

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<v Speaker 2>and walk down the road because we lived in the country.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, it was hard for NICKI to watch her mom

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<v Speaker 1>going through chemotherapy.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if the cure is worse than Kevin canthrope,

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, I'd watched my mom go through so

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<v Speaker 2>much final tab her hair coming out, losing one of

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<v Speaker 2>her breaths, which really upset her is very, very hard.

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<v Speaker 1>NICKI also had to process the fact that the worst

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<v Speaker 1>might happen, that she might lose her mother, her best friend, because.

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<v Speaker 2>By this time she had been through chemotherapy and radiation twice.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes she would feel better and sometimes you wouldn't. I

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<v Speaker 2>just couldn't think about this being the end of my

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<v Speaker 2>mom because I don't have any family. This is only

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<v Speaker 2>this has been my only mah long. I just didn't

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<v Speaker 2>thinking my life just staying after by Masel, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And then when she was in her mid twenties, someone

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<v Speaker 1>new came into Nicky's life. She had met a few

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<v Speaker 1>people around the area and one day one of the

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<v Speaker 1>girls invited her to a party.

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<v Speaker 2>Held my mom a mad and she said, it was

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<v Speaker 2>like a heart you might meet somebody you I'm play

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<v Speaker 2>so I go and there was Daniel.

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<v Speaker 1>Nicky was twenty six and Daniel Rischer was four years younger.

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<v Speaker 1>She was attracted to him right away.

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<v Speaker 2>His hair was it looked like a legal haircut when

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<v Speaker 2>I first meet him. Dark brown is great. He had big,

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<v Speaker 2>puppy dow brown eyes. He was kind of shy like me.

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<v Speaker 2>He was just oh no, just different from everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>One day, not long after that, to Nicky's surprise, Daniel

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<v Speaker 1>showed up at their trailer. Linda was on her way

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<v Speaker 1>to work, but.

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<v Speaker 2>Who is this? And I introduced and everything she was

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<v Speaker 2>talking about she didn't want to leave me, and he said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I bet if I just come up and keep recompany

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<v Speaker 2>during the day while you're at work. And that's what

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<v Speaker 2>he did, and that's where it started.

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<v Speaker 1>What stood out to you about him, It wasn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Like my ex husband, it was it was it was

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<v Speaker 2>sweet because it was like a slow build that makes

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<v Speaker 2>sense to you. It was this he helped with everything.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just it was just so natural.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only that Daniel was into rock music like Nikki.

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<v Speaker 1>Music was one of the things they bonded over.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. He played the guitar and he had his

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<v Speaker 2>own little personal band and he was good at it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I thought that was kind of neat to have

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<v Speaker 2>my boyfriend that played the band. You know what I'm saying.

0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.319
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of not necessarily a prestige or whatever you

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 2>want to say, but it was kind of neat.

0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.079
<v Speaker 1>Before long, Nicky and Daniel were inseparable. They went back

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.440
<v Speaker 1>and forth between their homes, staying some nights at Linda's

0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:13.319
<v Speaker 1>place and others with Daniel's parents, Albert and Rachel. At first,

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Nicky says, Rachel wasn't sure how she felt about her

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:17.080
<v Speaker 1>son's new girlfriend.

0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.400
<v Speaker 2>When she got to know me, things changed because, you know,

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 2>she didn't think I was trying to take a betty

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 2>to her soon or anything else. She was. I was

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.560
<v Speaker 2>really nice because I helped with the dishes, and I

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.560
<v Speaker 2>helped cook when we all lay down there, I helped

0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:36.319
<v Speaker 2>everything that she did.

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Did your mom like him?

0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I think so. Harry and Daniel really got along. She

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.640
<v Speaker 2>had asked that, you know what I thought about maybe

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.200
<v Speaker 2>was going on vacation one time, all of us together.

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.839
<v Speaker 1>Oh where would you have gone?

0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, my mom, she was a very history buff and

0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Glen went to Mississippi together and seeing no battlefields, and

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 2>she wanted to go to Dalamo. They see all the

0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.840
<v Speaker 2>stuff in Texas. As things progressed with me and him,

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.800
<v Speaker 2>we talked about maybe getting married one day, maybe starting

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:09.319
<v Speaker 2>a family.

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 1>One Friday morning, about a year and a half into

0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 1>their relationship, Daniel needed to take his guitar AMP to

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 1>a repair shop in Shreveport. It was about an hour

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 1>and a half away, and Niki decided to go along

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.000
<v Speaker 1>for the ride and make a day of it. On

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.200
<v Speaker 1>their way out, they stopped by Linda's to pick up

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 1>a few magazines for the drive, and Linda was already

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>at work.

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.480
<v Speaker 2>I left her a note on the bar the Taylor

0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.120
<v Speaker 2>and we were going to Strappart. It was still daytime

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 2>when we got there, so we went to the amp

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:45.200
<v Speaker 2>place and the city was closed for lunch, so we

0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 2>went to the mall and he decided he was hungry,

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 2>so we went night a sandwich place and he bought

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.000
<v Speaker 2>me some perfume a couple of balls apart few.

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 1>They walked around the mall for a bit, then went

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.920
<v Speaker 1>back to the shop to drop off Daniel's AMP. As

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 1>it was starting to get dark, they headed back to Magnolia,

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 1>arriving in the late evening.

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what time. It was exactly. We stopped

0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 2>by Easy Mark, we had dinner at Sonic, and we

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:15.040
<v Speaker 2>went home.

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.560
<v Speaker 1>On the way, they drove past Linda's house.

0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.720
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think of myself because it was a little late.

0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 2>I figured she was in the bed. I mean because

0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 2>when we went by the house, the house was dark,

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 2>but I thought the car was in the front yard.

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.720
<v Speaker 1>The next day, Saturday, Nikki called her mom and left

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.120
<v Speaker 1>multiple messages.

0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:39.880
<v Speaker 2>But that's when she usually goes to the store. This

0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 2>her day. She goes to the grocery store, to the

0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 2>farmer's market, Kmart. Is just her day to do all that.

0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 2>And now I didn't think of anything.

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 1>So John, can you introduce yourself for listeners.

0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 3>Sure, my name is John Harden. I'm a private investigator

0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.160
<v Speaker 3>and four ten years as i rend the nonprofit Proclaimed Justice.

0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Can you walk us through what happens back on March eighth,

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety one. What do we know that happened? Basically,

0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:11.880
<v Speaker 1>what we know.

0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.360
<v Speaker 3>Happened is on Friday March eighth, at four thirty five

0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 3>o'clock something like that, Linda Holly was seen at her

0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 3>mailbox by her neighbor Kara Lee Davis. She was in

0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 3>her scrubs. She was checking her mail. They had a

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 3>brief conversation about maybe we'll go to the store together tomorrow,

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 3>do a little shopping tomorrow. And that's the last sighting

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.680
<v Speaker 3>that we know for sure of Linda Holly alive. That's

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 3>on Friday afternoon. You fast forward to Sunday and Caro

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 3>Lee Davis, the neighbor, was concerned because she had left

0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.720
<v Speaker 3>a couple of messages for Linda that were not returned,

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.720
<v Speaker 3>but her car was still there, so she Kara becomes concerned.

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.040
<v Speaker 3>She calls her friend Jan Terrell, who is also Linda

0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 3>Holly's friend, and they call a police officer who they knew,

0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 3>named Buddy Height. The three of them go over. Buddy

0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 3>enters enough to see that there's a bad scene going

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 3>on there, and he calls the police officers that who

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 3>were on duty.

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.679
<v Speaker 1>So once the police arrive on the scene, what was

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:12.480
<v Speaker 1>the investigation?

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.439
<v Speaker 3>Like the first couple of officers, they don't know what

0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 3>they're walking into. So they go through the back utility

0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 3>room door of the trailer and they're walking through broken

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 3>glass or walking through blood, and you can't blame them.

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.440
<v Speaker 3>They've got their weapons drawn. They don't know if somebody's

0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.199
<v Speaker 3>still in that trailer or not. They go in, they

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:38.560
<v Speaker 3>find Linda dead. It was multiple stab wounds twelve stab wounds,

0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.439
<v Speaker 3>as well as blunt force trauma, some evidence of some

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.720
<v Speaker 3>strangulation as well.

0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.120
<v Speaker 1>John says that the investigation was a mess from the beginning.

0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.600
<v Speaker 3>That crime scene was not secured at all. There were

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:56.040
<v Speaker 3>very quickly, multiple people, multiple officers, kind of all over

0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.560
<v Speaker 3>the place there. Going in and out of the trailer

0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.960
<v Speaker 3>was sort of the first thing that went wrong with

0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:02.960
<v Speaker 3>this investigation.

0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.240
<v Speaker 1>So you guys on Sunday are calling her. She's not answering.

0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 1>So at what point do you go over to the house.

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.200
<v Speaker 2>I guess about lunch, maybe maybe a little after lunch.

0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:16.719
<v Speaker 2>I come around the corner and there was a whole

0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.520
<v Speaker 2>bunch of cars in the yard and told them we

0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.480
<v Speaker 2>pulled up. Everybody was coming out from behind my house,

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.680
<v Speaker 2>and I asked what was wrong, And when they told

0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:29.399
<v Speaker 2>me that that my mom was dead, I just remember

0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:31.919
<v Speaker 2>thinking that they're lying. So I run around behind the

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.680
<v Speaker 2>house and they caught me and told me that I

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.120
<v Speaker 2>told me that I couldn't. I couldn't go around there.

0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.920
<v Speaker 2>And by this time I was crying and I didn't

0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.480
<v Speaker 2>understand why because it just seemed making any sense that

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.959
<v Speaker 2>you're telling me that my mom was dead and she

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 2>couldn't be dead because she wasn't dead when I left.

0:18:54.080 --> 0:19:00.480
<v Speaker 2>I just know. That's when I just light on the

0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 2>grass and I can do nothing because it was just

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:08.280
<v Speaker 2>my whole life was gone. I have no life now

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 2>that didn't have anything no more. Who would do something

0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 2>like this? I mean, I just didn't know anybody that

0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.119
<v Speaker 2>didn't like my mom my d You don't say I

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:30.119
<v Speaker 2>still don't know. I know I didn't. Why would I

0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 2>tighten my life away from me?

0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.439
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.320
<v Speaker 1>You can listen to this and all the LoVa for

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing

0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:07.159
<v Speaker 1>to LoVa for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Within days

0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.159
<v Speaker 1>of finding out her mother had been murdered, Nicky was

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 1>told that she had to leave their home.

0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Nobody was paying for it anymore. We had like ten

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:23.200
<v Speaker 2>fifteen days to get everything out of the house, so

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.120
<v Speaker 2>me and Daniel and my friend Davy went up there

0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:28.960
<v Speaker 2>and we would try to plan it up some during

0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.160
<v Speaker 2>the days and keep the things out that I wanted

0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.479
<v Speaker 2>to keep. We would do to the day because I couldn't.

0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.080
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't do in there at night time. It stretched

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.000
<v Speaker 2>me out too bad and I had not marriage from it.

0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.399
<v Speaker 3>The day after Linda was found murdered, Daniel and Nicki

0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.840
<v Speaker 3>were allowed to go into the home unsupervised. They're cleaning

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.359
<v Speaker 3>all this stuff up from the murder before the crime

0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.159
<v Speaker 3>scene folks got there, before the State crime lab arrived,

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 3>three days before the State crime labl.

0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.879
<v Speaker 1>Nicky says that at one point officers asked her if

0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.000
<v Speaker 1>there was anything missing from the house, mcdona, what was missing?

0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.639
<v Speaker 2>Her gun was missing, hammer was missing, money was missing,

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.399
<v Speaker 2>jewelry was missing, and they did not one thing about

0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:15.840
<v Speaker 2>any of that.

0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 1>As it turns out, the detectives were concerned about something

0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:21.720
<v Speaker 1>else entirely.

0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.360
<v Speaker 3>They weren't looking for valuables that were missing or anything

0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 3>like that. Officers testified at trial that immediately once they

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:36.720
<v Speaker 3>found Linda Holly murdered in her home, they immediately started

0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.639
<v Speaker 3>looking for insurance and other important.

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Papers Linda's two life insurance policies, which added up to

0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.359
<v Speaker 1>ninety thousand dollars.

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 3>And they all four said that there were all these

0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:54.240
<v Speaker 3>papers on the floor and scattered about and Nicky was

0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.840
<v Speaker 3>gathering papers and putting them in this box. The day

0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.520
<v Speaker 3>after Linda was murdered, they take them to daniel house.

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.560
<v Speaker 1>At this point, the investigation had already begun to turn

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 1>towards Nikki and Daniel.

0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.439
<v Speaker 3>I guess the old adage that you always looked at

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.479
<v Speaker 3>those you know, they look at those closest to you

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 3>rings true to some degree here, and in that way,

0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:17.760
<v Speaker 3>you sort of can't blame me either.

0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.520
<v Speaker 1>So when did they start questioning you about what happens?

0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Tell me what you remember about when you started realizing, like,

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 1>oh shit, I think they might think I did this.

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:42.240
<v Speaker 2>They interviewed me and Daniel maybe I don't remember. Right

0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:47.160
<v Speaker 2>after they let us go in the trailer the good things,

0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.000
<v Speaker 2>and then I think that day or that next day

0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.359
<v Speaker 2>they called SUP there they read Daniel's his rights, so

0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.280
<v Speaker 2>they never read mine. Robert Boram talked to Daniel, and

0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:03.360
<v Speaker 2>GM talked to me. He told me that they had

0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of suspects, and then I'd ask him

0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.960
<v Speaker 2>who he wouldn't tell me, And he asked where we'd been,

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.600
<v Speaker 2>and I told him where we'd been, and he said,

0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:16.199
<v Speaker 2>did I have any receipts? And I showed him. He

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:20.760
<v Speaker 2>took my receipt from where he bought that perfume, and

0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:23.919
<v Speaker 2>I've never seen it since. They pulled hair out of

0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:28.680
<v Speaker 2>my head ten fifteen, maybe twenty friends of my hair,

0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:30.479
<v Speaker 2>and I asked why are they doing that, and they

0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:34.280
<v Speaker 2>said they had to. I don't know why. It's this

0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.600
<v Speaker 2>very day. Did it match anything? Did not match anything?

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:40.840
<v Speaker 2>They cut her fingernails off because they said they said

0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:43.800
<v Speaker 2>it was something under her finger nails. Did that match something?

0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:47.000
<v Speaker 2>What was it? I tried to find out, and no

0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 2>one's told me.

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:53.080
<v Speaker 1>On March fourteenth, officers got a warrant to search Daniel's

0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:55.239
<v Speaker 1>parents home for evidence.

0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.720
<v Speaker 3>And they find this insurance box that, in my opinion,

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:02.679
<v Speaker 3>is so when they came to form this theory that

0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:05.600
<v Speaker 3>it was done for insurance. And I honestly believe that

0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:10.840
<v Speaker 3>there's a strong probability that these officers conspired to testify

0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:15.560
<v Speaker 3>that they were immediately looking for insurance papers. So that's

0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.240
<v Speaker 3>why the insurance papers became so significant at trial.

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.960
<v Speaker 1>In addition to the box with the insurance papers, they

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:25.359
<v Speaker 1>seized a hunting jacket and some boots belonging to Daniel.

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:30.320
<v Speaker 1>The investigators also zeroed in on Daniel's rock and roll lifestyle.

0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 3>This is nineteen ninety one, this is at the height

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.240
<v Speaker 3>of Satanic Panic era. It became a lot of this

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.520
<v Speaker 3>stuff of Daniel was this weird, aggressive guy that listened

0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 3>to all this heavy metal music, played heavy metal music,

0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 3>that kind of thing. So I think that those things

0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:51.040
<v Speaker 3>are what sort of got the police's focus on them

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 3>to start with.

0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:56.960
<v Speaker 1>They also scrutinized things like Nikki's rock posters and an

0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Iron Maiden T shirt of Daniel's, which to them seemed

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 1>to suspect.

0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.360
<v Speaker 3>And in fact, some of that stuff was ses as evidence.

0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:07.680
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't used a trial, but shows you where their

0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:10.879
<v Speaker 3>minds were at as they were investigating. So there was

0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 3>strong indication and even some comments made about this could

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:17.320
<v Speaker 3>be something to do with the occult. Ultimately, what the

0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:21.160
<v Speaker 3>state decided on was that Daniel and Nicky murdered her

0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:24.439
<v Speaker 3>mother for a ninety thousand dollars life insurance payout.

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:28.160
<v Speaker 1>About a month later, on April eighteenth, nineteen ninety one,

0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Nicky and Daniel were both arrested and charged with first

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:41.240
<v Speaker 1>degree murder. What were you thinking when that happened.

0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:48.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember. I don't think I was thinking because

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:54.600
<v Speaker 2>who does that? Who thinks that they would kill their mom?

0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Who really thinks that they would kill their mom? I

0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:01.680
<v Speaker 2>think that everybody was just putting out every all kinds

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 2>of rumors, and I think a lot of them come

0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:06.240
<v Speaker 2>from the sheriffs office. I do.

0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:10.800
<v Speaker 1>So when they arrest you, when they actually put handcuffs

0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 1>on you, and you wind up in the jail and

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:15.400
<v Speaker 1>you're waiting for trial. The only person you have now

0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:17.560
<v Speaker 1>at this point is Daniel, and were you even able

0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:19.399
<v Speaker 1>to talk to him?

0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:21.720
<v Speaker 2>They were letting me talk to Daniel, but they were

0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:25.320
<v Speaker 2>listening to everything that we said, just in case I

0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:30.040
<v Speaker 2>said something or he said something, or or they would

0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 2>take him outside and they wouldn't take me. They did

0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:37.080
<v Speaker 2>a lot of horrible things to me in County jail,

0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 2>trying to make me say that I did. And I

0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:41.560
<v Speaker 2>keep telling them, then, if I'm not going to say

0:26:41.600 --> 0:26:43.360
<v Speaker 2>that I did now, why would I say I'm doing

0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:46.440
<v Speaker 2>it now? Because I haven't done anything wrong. I got

0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:51.399
<v Speaker 2>sick with walking pneumonia. They tell me it isn't take

0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:53.600
<v Speaker 2>me to the hospital, and then they wouldn't take me,

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.200
<v Speaker 2>or they laugh at me, or they'd give me water

0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:01.159
<v Speaker 2>with crashing, and I got the poisoned him because the

0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:04.760
<v Speaker 2>food was rotten that they give me. They wouldn't take

0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:08.160
<v Speaker 2>me outside. They would put people in there and tell

0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 2>me that I was going to die. They would make

0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 2>fine noises like they was going to find me in

0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:17.120
<v Speaker 2>the letture chair that I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat.

0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Sitting in jail awaiting trial, Nikki had nothing but time

0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:26.800
<v Speaker 1>to think about her mother's life and what happened to her.

0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:31.640
<v Speaker 2>First of all, I loved my mom very dearly, even

0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 2>as broken as she was. I would have never traded

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:36.720
<v Speaker 2>for nothing in the world when you don't have anything

0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:41.280
<v Speaker 2>and you were raised up like me with the day

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 2>that was so mean and hateful, and he's already destroying

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:53.800
<v Speaker 2>one life, my mom, and she was trying to put

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:56.639
<v Speaker 2>it all back together. And you have a child that

0:27:57.440 --> 0:28:02.879
<v Speaker 2>was born with such a terrible disability. You know, she

0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:07.600
<v Speaker 2>had to swallow her life because of mine, because she

0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:12.560
<v Speaker 2>couldn't be what she ended up being in six veins

0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:16.159
<v Speaker 2>all right, LEAs tried to where I could walk and

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:19.840
<v Speaker 2>have a decent life, and it's just very hard.

0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:44.080
<v Speaker 1>In January of nineteen ninety two, Daniel and Nikki went

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 1>to trial. They were tried together, but with separate attorneys.

0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:53.400
<v Speaker 1>The trial lasted just three days. The most damaging testimony

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:57.920
<v Speaker 1>for the prosecution came from Arkansas state criminologist Don Smith.

0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.640
<v Speaker 1>He had done lumino testing the camouflage, hunting jacket and

0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:03.960
<v Speaker 1>boots that have been taken from Daniel's home.

0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:08.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure your listeners know, but you know, luminol is

0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 3>a chemical that is an agent that reacts with bloods,

0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 3>but it reacts with a bunch of other materials too.

0:29:14.080 --> 0:29:16.960
<v Speaker 3>So if there's blood on something, you can spray luminol

0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:19.400
<v Speaker 3>on it, put a black light over it, and it

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:23.840
<v Speaker 3>will essentially glow. Right. It doesn't tell you even if

0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:27.000
<v Speaker 3>it's blood number one, number two, it doesn't tell you

0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:31.240
<v Speaker 3>what species of animal the blood comes from, much less

0:29:31.520 --> 0:29:34.920
<v Speaker 3>whose blood it is if it's human's blood. So the

0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:40.360
<v Speaker 3>prosecutor really led him into this about the strong implication

0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:45.840
<v Speaker 3>without outright saying during his testimony that the blood that

0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:49.320
<v Speaker 3>reacted to luminol on Daniel's shoe and jacket was Linda

0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:54.600
<v Speaker 3>Hally's blood. That was the clear implication given to the jury.

0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:59.080
<v Speaker 1>In fact, Daniel has always maintained that the blood on

0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 1>his hunting jacket came from a deer, but against the

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:06.000
<v Speaker 1>expert criminologist testimony, all but saying the blood was Linda's.

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:09.720
<v Speaker 1>It added up to a powerful argument for conviction.

0:30:11.640 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 3>In fact, I've interviewed multiple jurors since then, and that's

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:18.680
<v Speaker 3>the first thing any of them ever brought up, was

0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 3>the blood on the jacket.

0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Because besides that, I mean, what other evidence was there

0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:26.880
<v Speaker 1>against them? It was the life insurance, the.

0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 3>Life insurance and the blood. I mean, that was it.

0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:30.920
<v Speaker 3>That was truly it.

0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:34.680
<v Speaker 1>The defense didn't seem to have much to present either,

0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:39.080
<v Speaker 1>although they did try to introduce the possibility of alternate suspects.

0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:45.680
<v Speaker 3>There was a man named Lewis Burris. He with regularity

0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:51.320
<v Speaker 3>would see people at Linda's home that he thought were

0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:53.600
<v Speaker 3>out of place. Let me put it that way. One

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:57.200
<v Speaker 3>of them was the same guy that he would see

0:30:57.200 --> 0:31:00.560
<v Speaker 3>there very often, and he saw him there that morning,

0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:03.520
<v Speaker 3>saw him outside Linda's place on that Friday morning.

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:07.360
<v Speaker 1>According to Nikki, Linda was dating a police officer at

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:11.560
<v Speaker 1>the time and he sometimes stayed overnight. Both Lewis Burris

0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:15.040
<v Speaker 1>and Linda's neighbor Caro Leie Davis testified that they'd seen

0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 1>a police car parked in front of her house on

0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:20.080
<v Speaker 1>a regular basis he would come at.

0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Light at night, because should I always say, if the

0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:26.320
<v Speaker 2>car's in the front yard, please yourself stop and come back.

0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:28.960
<v Speaker 2>And there'd be a lot of times his car would

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:30.240
<v Speaker 2>be in the yard at that time.

0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:35.720
<v Speaker 3>Another set of people that Lewis Burris saw with regularity,

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.160
<v Speaker 3>there were, as he described them, two black guys, the

0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:42.720
<v Speaker 3>same black guys that were there almost every Saturday morning,

0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:45.320
<v Speaker 3>is what he said. And I only really bring that

0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 3>up because there was a similar crime that happened in

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:54.040
<v Speaker 3>a town just thirty miles away, just a few days

0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 3>before Linda Holly's murder, that was very similar and the

0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:02.719
<v Speaker 3>strongest suspects in that case were some African American males.

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:06.600
<v Speaker 1>That was the case of a woman named Bernice Rankin.

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:11.280
<v Speaker 3>She was found murdered in her home, stabbed, bludgeoned, so

0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:15.800
<v Speaker 3>very similar crime, similar enough to the point where a

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:21.040
<v Speaker 3>detective named Jimmy Morgan felt strongly that these two crimes

0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 3>were similar enough that he wanted real work done in

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:28.440
<v Speaker 3>comparing notes, comparing potential suspects, that kind of thing.

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:33.000
<v Speaker 1>In fact, Jimmy Morgan came to the trial he was

0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 1>prepared to testify about the similarity between those two murders,

0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:39.720
<v Speaker 1>but the prosecution objected.

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.760
<v Speaker 3>The jury left the room, and you know, there was

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 3>an argument back and forth. Ultimately the judge decided that

0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:47.720
<v Speaker 3>he should not be allowed to testify in front of

0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 3>the jury. The other thing that the defense did bring up,

0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:55.280
<v Speaker 3>Nicky was the primary beneficiary of that ninety thousand dollars

0:32:55.280 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 3>life insurance upon her mother's death. The secondary benefit, Sherry,

0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 3>was a lady named Jan Terrell who was Linda's friend.

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:08.080
<v Speaker 1>And Jen was one of the first people to go

0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:12.240
<v Speaker 1>to the house on that Sunday morning along with Carol Lee,

0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:17.200
<v Speaker 1>and later after Nicki was convicted, the ninety thousand dollars

0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 1>went to Jen Terrell.

0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:24.240
<v Speaker 3>We don't know what she did with that money, we

0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:26.840
<v Speaker 3>don't know anything like that, but we do know she

0:33:26.920 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 3>was the beneficiary.

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:33.239
<v Speaker 1>So, in addition to Nicky and Daniel, John believes there

0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.600
<v Speaker 1>were several people in Linda's life that police could have

0:33:36.640 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 1>looked into, but they didn't.

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:43.160
<v Speaker 3>She's a nurse for the county. There's strong rumor that

0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:46.840
<v Speaker 3>she would take prescription pads that were pre signed by

0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 3>doctors and fill prescriptions for people for money. That's not

0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:55.080
<v Speaker 3>anything that we've ever been able to prove definitively, but

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.960
<v Speaker 3>there is very strong indication that that's the case. So

0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:01.800
<v Speaker 3>you know that puts year around some shady people sometimes,

0:34:01.880 --> 0:34:04.280
<v Speaker 3>especially in Southwest Arkansas in nineteen ninety one.

0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:08.239
<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering, do you have any thoughts on who might

0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:09.360
<v Speaker 1>have killed your mom?

0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:16.880
<v Speaker 2>My mom didn't always know the best people in her life,

0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:20.879
<v Speaker 2>or didn't always sometimes pick the best people in her

0:34:20.880 --> 0:34:22.640
<v Speaker 2>life like me. I guess that's where I got it

0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:25.720
<v Speaker 2>from a lot. I didn't always pick the best people

0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:28.640
<v Speaker 2>in the world either. Before Daniel, you know what I'm saying.

0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes there with people that would drive real, real slow

0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 2>by the house at not time, or they would call

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:38.120
<v Speaker 2>the house when's while we had to have her phone

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:38.840
<v Speaker 2>number changed.

0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:41.359
<v Speaker 1>Who do you think that was? I mean, what kind

0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:44.040
<v Speaker 1>of people did your mom know? Was she involved in anything?

0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:47.399
<v Speaker 2>Well, she worked for the sheriff department when she wasn't

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:53.680
<v Speaker 2>working for the health department. After she passed away, I've

0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 2>had a few people tell me that, I guess just

0:34:56.520 --> 0:34:58.440
<v Speaker 2>the people that you work with, You know what I'm saying,

0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:01.680
<v Speaker 2>That she didn't necessarily hang with all the best people

0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:03.960
<v Speaker 2>in the world. But I've never heard anybody's.

0:35:03.480 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 1>Name on January thirteenth, nineteen ninety one, Nicky Singer and

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:12.680
<v Speaker 1>Daniel Richard were both convicted of first degree murder and

0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:14.320
<v Speaker 1>sentenced to life in prison.

0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:19.920
<v Speaker 2>When the realization comes in and I had a lot

0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:24.560
<v Speaker 2>of sentence, it was just I just quit. I stayed

0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:28.720
<v Speaker 2>into bed. I didn't know eat, I didn't shower because

0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:30.399
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know how I was going to do this.

0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:36.359
<v Speaker 2>The first five years of my prison stay was really

0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:43.360
<v Speaker 2>bad because I had to learn how to survive. I

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:48.280
<v Speaker 2>learned that you couldn't be who you are. You don't

0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:53.600
<v Speaker 2>be nice to everybody. You can't give your shoulder or

0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:56.799
<v Speaker 2>try to say, you know, can I be here? You know,

0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.800
<v Speaker 2>do you need somebody that's ought to because I've learned

0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>that they would sab people in the bag. I didn't

0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:06.000
<v Speaker 2>think I would ever survive as long as I have

0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:10.239
<v Speaker 2>because as the horrible things enough saying the people get

0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:17.120
<v Speaker 2>beat up or stabbed or pay and its breaked my

0:36:17.200 --> 0:36:29.600
<v Speaker 2>heart because I wasn't raced up that way.

0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:33.720
<v Speaker 1>But Nicki turned out to be stronger than she ever knew.

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.800
<v Speaker 1>She did survive and even earned her ged while in prison,

0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:42.560
<v Speaker 1>and eventually she found herself becoming a mentor, helping others

0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:45.719
<v Speaker 1>to adjust the way she wished someone could have helped her.

0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:48.800
<v Speaker 2>When I first came to prison, I didn't have anybody

0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.560
<v Speaker 2>that was there for me, nobody to tell me that

0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 2>it was okay, the pad on the bag, or I'm

0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:00.759
<v Speaker 2>very proud of you that you've survived another day. I

0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:03.319
<v Speaker 2>try to be there and listen to him. I'll heel

0:37:03.480 --> 0:37:06.160
<v Speaker 2>many and I do it for the simple mind and

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:09.439
<v Speaker 2>if we all need peace of mind, because there's none

0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:13.160
<v Speaker 2>in here. And when we get something, we have to

0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:14.160
<v Speaker 2>hold it very dear.

0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Through the years, Nicky has tried to keep up on

0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:18.880
<v Speaker 1>how Daniel's doing.

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I would ask Rachel with the okay because I wasn't okay,

0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:28.279
<v Speaker 2>you know. I used to hear from Rachel all the

0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:29.240
<v Speaker 2>time about Daniel.

0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:33.520
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety three, Nicky and Daniel filed an appeal

0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:37.359
<v Speaker 1>with the Arkansas Supreme Court, requesting a new trial, but

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:44.160
<v Speaker 1>the court upheld the conviction. Daniel and his family continued

0:37:44.200 --> 0:37:48.000
<v Speaker 1>to pursue every avenue they could to prove their innocence,

0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:51.759
<v Speaker 1>which is how John Harden learned about Nicky's case in

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:52.719
<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen.

0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:57.279
<v Speaker 3>So when we first launched Proclaimed Justice, I got a

0:37:57.320 --> 0:38:01.280
<v Speaker 3>message from the cousin of Daniel Rischer, and she asked

0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.200
<v Speaker 3>us to look into it, and so I started looking

0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:07.480
<v Speaker 3>into it, really on Daniel's behalf, and that's what got

0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:09.800
<v Speaker 3>me into the case to start with. But of course

0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:13.280
<v Speaker 3>you can't investigate Daniel's case without investigating Nicky's.

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Daniel had already gotten the Innocence Project of New York involved,

0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:21.680
<v Speaker 1>and they had agreed to have DNA testing done on

0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:24.680
<v Speaker 1>the blood found on his jacket. The test results showed

0:38:24.680 --> 0:38:27.800
<v Speaker 1>that it was not definitively human blood.

0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:30.319
<v Speaker 3>And it's what Daniel's saying all along, it's my dearer

0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:31.600
<v Speaker 3>hunting jacket is dear blood.

0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:35.160
<v Speaker 1>And there's something else that John keeps thinking about the

0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:39.240
<v Speaker 1>lack of a motive when she was killed. Remember, Linda

0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:41.160
<v Speaker 1>was still battling cancer.

0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:45.279
<v Speaker 3>She had gone into remission and then the cancer had

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:48.680
<v Speaker 3>come back. There was strong belief in indication that this

0:38:48.719 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 3>could very well be terminal cancer this time around. And

0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:57.040
<v Speaker 3>so if we're talking about the motive to murder her

0:38:57.080 --> 0:39:00.960
<v Speaker 3>mother to get ninety thousand dollars of life insurance, and

0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 3>this sounds crasp, but if you want your mother dad

0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:08.440
<v Speaker 3>to collect ninety thousand dollars and she's got almost certainly

0:39:08.520 --> 0:39:11.640
<v Speaker 3>terminal cancer. Why not just wait it out and not

0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:15.160
<v Speaker 3>take a risk of being convicted and sent away for life.

0:39:15.480 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 3>So it's just illogical on its face.

0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:23.080
<v Speaker 1>In twenty sixteen, based on the new DNA findings, Daniel

0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:25.160
<v Speaker 1>and Niki were granted a parole hearing.

0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:30.439
<v Speaker 3>The parole boarder unanimously recommended them for parole, which does

0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:32.279
<v Speaker 3>not happen very often at all.

0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:35.600
<v Speaker 1>No, and then they get denied by the governor.

0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.840
<v Speaker 3>That's right, Governor Asa Hutcheson denied parole.

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:39.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Proclaimed Justice was started by John Harden and Jason Baldwin,

0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 1>one of the infamous West Memphis Three. John was a

0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:55.080
<v Speaker 1>pivotal member in helping to exonerate the three wrongfully convicted

0:39:55.120 --> 0:40:00.840
<v Speaker 1>men after eighteen years in prison. After Jason's release twenty eleven,

0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:04.960
<v Speaker 1>the two decided to start an innocence organization together. They

0:40:04.960 --> 0:40:08.279
<v Speaker 1>have worked on many wrongful conviction cases. One of the

0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:12.400
<v Speaker 1>most well known what's their work exonerating Daniel Viegis. But

0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:15.680
<v Speaker 1>after years of running a nonprofit, the pace was taking

0:40:15.719 --> 0:40:18.920
<v Speaker 1>its toll on John. In twenty twenty three, he made

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:22.200
<v Speaker 1>the difficult decision to disband Proclaim Justice.

0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.120
<v Speaker 3>It was just time. I mean, it's fucking hard starting

0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:29.240
<v Speaker 3>an organization and keeping it, you know, a several hundred

0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:32.240
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars budget together every year, and I'm still active

0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:36.359
<v Speaker 3>in the investigations in our current cases. I'll be able

0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:38.719
<v Speaker 3>to keep some of my fundraising network in place to

0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:39.960
<v Speaker 3>do this kind of good work.

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:45.840
<v Speaker 1>And he has no intention on giving up on Nicki's case.

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:50.200
<v Speaker 3>I promised Nikki. When I called her and explained what

0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:52.640
<v Speaker 3>was going on with me and proclaimed justice, she was

0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:55.760
<v Speaker 3>very supportive of me on a personal level, just because

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:59.399
<v Speaker 3>she's sweet like that. She's kind and caring and compassionate,

0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 3>and and she wants to make sure I'm okay, which

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:06.560
<v Speaker 3>is always strange to hear from somebody who's dealing with

0:41:06.600 --> 0:41:08.600
<v Speaker 3>what she's dealing with on the inside.

0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:11.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, you and I talk about that, John, Like,

0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:14.160
<v Speaker 1>anytime Nikki calls, it's like, are you okay? Is her

0:41:14.200 --> 0:41:14.840
<v Speaker 1>first question?

0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:18.399
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, how are you doing? And so I know to

0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:22.080
<v Speaker 3>some degree she's mostly it's because she truly cares about me.

0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:26.080
<v Speaker 3>To some degree, it probably helps her just be thinking

0:41:26.120 --> 0:41:32.520
<v Speaker 3>about somebody else's life. So she's absolutely, one hundred percent

0:41:32.640 --> 0:41:37.120
<v Speaker 3>completely innocent of this crime. And we just can't rest

0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:45.600
<v Speaker 3>until we've got her out where we're at is we

0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:48.320
<v Speaker 3>have to have a status hearing. We have this order

0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:52.160
<v Speaker 3>for all these items to be tested DNA tested. We

0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:55.440
<v Speaker 3>can't really proceed in the courts until we have a

0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:59.120
<v Speaker 3>decision on whether or not we can forego testing on

0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:03.120
<v Speaker 3>all those other ones ones. So now we're left with

0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:06.600
<v Speaker 3>waiting on a judge's order telling us what we've got

0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:06.880
<v Speaker 3>to do.

0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:10.799
<v Speaker 1>Nikki has been behind bars since she was twenty eight.

0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:15.400
<v Speaker 1>She's now sixty. Her health has never been great, but

0:42:15.440 --> 0:42:19.200
<v Speaker 1>she admits that as she gets older, things are getting

0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:20.200
<v Speaker 1>even harder.

0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:27.400
<v Speaker 2>I have diabetes, real bands, I have high blood pressure,

0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:32.239
<v Speaker 2>my headache to words crum sistress. I can't remember when

0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 2>the last time I feel good. Yeah, and it gets

0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:37.560
<v Speaker 2>really pressing this time, and I try not to cry

0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:41.759
<v Speaker 2>because I don't want anybody to boohoo or a baby thing.

0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:44.200
<v Speaker 1>What do you want for your future when you get out?

0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:45.960
<v Speaker 1>What do you think about?

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:48.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't want a perfect life, because there's no such

0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 2>thing as perfect. I just want to learn to be

0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:55.000
<v Speaker 2>okay with me all over again, learn to be okay

0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:58.360
<v Speaker 2>with the world, because I don't even know what the

0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:01.520
<v Speaker 2>world looks like. I don't the world is so big now,

0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:04.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know maybe travel may be, tell my story,

0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:08.440
<v Speaker 2>write a book. I just want people to get a

0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:11.399
<v Speaker 2>chance to know who I am, to like who I am.

0:43:11.840 --> 0:43:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I want know people to know that I'm capable of

0:43:15.280 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 2>doing things more than that I've ever thought about. I

0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:23.160
<v Speaker 2>don't even know what's out there to do exactly, but

0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:24.759
<v Speaker 2>I just want people to know that I want to

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:25.879
<v Speaker 2>have that chance to do it.

0:43:26.680 --> 0:43:29.120
<v Speaker 1>I got to know Nikki really well while covering her

0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:32.040
<v Speaker 1>case for Unjustin and Unsolved, and after learning about her

0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:35.120
<v Speaker 1>case in her life and speaking with her at length,

0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:39.200
<v Speaker 1>I felt compelled to be a friend to Nikki rather

0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:46.360
<v Speaker 1>than just a journalist using her as a source. What

0:43:46.480 --> 0:43:51.319
<v Speaker 1>gives you hope? Nikki? You Maggie, Why did I know

0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:53.520
<v Speaker 1>you were going to say that You've heard me get.

0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.120
<v Speaker 2>This bad before, and you get over to me and

0:43:56.200 --> 0:43:59.239
<v Speaker 2>tell me that you have obvious people out here just

0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:02.839
<v Speaker 2>because you don't say I'm visitly or not there. Even

0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:06.600
<v Speaker 2>if people in here, though, will tell me Dad it's okay. Nikki,

0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:10.399
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't say I'm a bad person. I would say

0:44:12.280 --> 0:44:15.040
<v Speaker 2>I've learned to be better person than I was before.

0:44:15.920 --> 0:44:26.240
<v Speaker 2>My heart always hours. Yeah.

0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Since Proclaim justice has closed its doors, Nicki is in

0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:32.160
<v Speaker 1>need of a new team to pick up where they

0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 1>left off. Please reach out if you can help or

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.120
<v Speaker 1>can connect her with someone who can. It's been over

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:42.160
<v Speaker 1>thirty years now and it is time to get her out.

0:44:42.880 --> 0:44:45.680
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, Nicki would love to have your support.

0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:48.799
<v Speaker 1>A donation to help with prison expenses, or even just

0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:51.359
<v Speaker 1>a letter or card to let her know you've heard

0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:55.799
<v Speaker 1>her story would mean the world to her. There is

0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:58.680
<v Speaker 1>also a fundraiser for Nicki. Since she doesn't have family

0:44:58.920 --> 0:45:02.680
<v Speaker 1>or friends put money on her commissary, it's up to us,

0:45:02.800 --> 0:45:05.360
<v Speaker 1>so we will put that link and how to write

0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:22.680
<v Speaker 1>her in the episode description. Thank you for listening to

0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:26.360
<v Speaker 1>Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freelink. Please support your local innocence

0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:29.280
<v Speaker 1>organizations and go to the links in the episode description

0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:31.759
<v Speaker 1>to see how you can help. I'd like to thank

0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:35.560
<v Speaker 1>our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wortis,

0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:39.400
<v Speaker 1>as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer Kathleen Fink,

0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:44.719
<v Speaker 1>story editor Hannah Beal, and researcher Shelby Sorels. Mixing and

0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:48.160
<v Speaker 1>sound design are by Jackie Pauley, with additional production by

0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in this production

0:45:51.960 --> 0:45:55.799
<v Speaker 1>is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be

0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:58.960
<v Speaker 1>sure to follow us on all social media platforms at

0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also

0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:06.200
<v Speaker 1>follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:08.919
<v Speaker 1>with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for Good

0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:17.279
<v Speaker 1>Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one