1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Seats podcast. 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: My guest today is the one and only nil Sid Doctor. 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me? 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: In February of sixty five, I saw you with the 5 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: Concord Hotel. 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, gracious. 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: I would not expect you to remember that specific show, 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: but can you tell me about you and your relationship 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: with the catskills in the Worshpell. 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 2: My wife's mother had a hotel a Kachlaine in the 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 2: Monticello area. It was called esther Manor, and the big 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: place to play was the Concord Hotel. And the audience 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: was the worst, the worst audience. Who could imagine. They 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: were sitting on their hands, and they wanted to know 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: when the next meal was being served, and they used 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: to applaud by doing this. They were too tired to 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: clap their hands from the food. 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: I remember at the Concord they used to give you 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: these little bangers, like you know, chopsticks with a ball 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: at the end to hit on the table to clap. 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 2: That is right. They were too tired from all the 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: meals that were served, so they tapped the table with 23 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 2: this little wooden thing. 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: So you were a New Yorker. You grew up as 25 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: a Jewish New Yorker. Did you spend time in the 26 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: Catskills growing up? 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: I had a band at nineteen. We were called the 28 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 2: Norton Ells. We were three pieces. I played the piano, 29 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: Norman played the trube, and David played the bass. And 30 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: we played for the Chatshaw Lessons, the Mumbo Lessons. We 31 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: played for the show. If Heinsheins and Dead would come in, 32 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: they would put a manuscript in front of me and 33 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: I would have to do their show by reading right 34 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 2: off the manuscript. 35 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: You know these challenging times. Have you experienced any anti 36 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: Semitism in your career. 37 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: In the musical field? Never? 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: Never, Well, how about the non musical field? 39 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: Uh hahuh. Well they thought perhaps I was Italian or 40 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: Polish or Turkish. I am Turkish now, but I never 41 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: really got a face to face with it. 42 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're eighty five years old, to what the gue? 43 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: Are you still active today? 44 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: I play the piano. I'm on serious radio with the 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: program I played by Classical. I started as a concert 46 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: pianist at the Juilliard and I love to play Chopin 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: and Beethoven and I watched old movies on TCM, of course, 48 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: and then I will go to lunch and dinner every day, 49 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: out lunch and dinner out every day, and I will 50 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: I will write some songs. I've written two songs after 51 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: five years of not writing, and they're pretty good. 52 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: Okay, what was the process? Five years go by? Will 53 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: you just inspired? How do you do it? 54 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: I sat at the piano with a melody first, and 55 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: then my help, Kyle Sitter, had never written a song before, 56 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: and he's young, so I wanted some young words and 57 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: some young phrases, and he was an excellent lyricist. So 58 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: I am going to put it on social media and say, hello, folks, 59 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: I haven't written in five years, and I hope you 60 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: like it. And I like it. 61 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: Okay, the melody? Do you play the piano every day? 62 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: I do? 63 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: And you just mess around? Or you play classical stuff? 64 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: What do you do? 65 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: I play classical stuff mainly. 66 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: And you say you had a melody. Where did the 67 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: melody come from? 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: The melody comes from my head and from my fingers, 69 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: and oh I also do the Alexa. I ask Alexa 70 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: to give me some old Nil Sadaka records, and I'm 71 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: shocked I said, who the hell wrote that? It was me? 72 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: I it's almost like another person. It's weird. 73 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: So where do you live now? 74 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: I live in Los Angeles here and West Hollywood. 75 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: And where do you go to luncheon? Who do you 76 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: in dinner? And who do you go to lunch and 77 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: dinner with? 78 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 2: With friends? With Barry Manilow in Pump Springs and uh, 79 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: I go to Craigs, and I go to Jane Tannah's 80 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: and I go to Mels for lunch for my poached 81 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: eggs in avocado, and I keep pretty busy. 82 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: And do people recognize you? 83 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: Yes? They do. I had the other day in Mells 84 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of English people on a tour of 85 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, and the tour guide said, would you like 86 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: to meet Neil Sadaka? And said, oh, yes, we'd look 87 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: to And there lined up about twenty of them and 88 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: I took a picture with them. It was it was 89 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: very exciting for me and for them. Wow. I played 90 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: all over the world, so I am known in every 91 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 2: practically every country in the world. 92 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: Just to be clear, you originally in New york Er. 93 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: How long have you lived in. 94 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: LA I at both places? I still do. I have 95 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: in New York Manhattan and here. So I was going 96 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: back and forth. 97 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: And is that based on the weather or anything specific? 98 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: I was getting older, Yes, the weather, and yes I 99 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: have friends here, not in show business, but they're very 100 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 2: good friends. 101 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you obviously are one hundred percent. You know, 102 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: some people are at eighty five or dead. Some people 103 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: are losing their marbles. You a bat one hundred on 104 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: both of those. You're still kicking to have early marbles. 105 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: But what's it like when some of your friends start to. 106 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: Pass I have great memories of them. I think of 107 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 2: the wonderful times we spent together, and I hope that 108 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: they're at a good place and out of their action paions. 109 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: But how do you cope emotionally with their passing? 110 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: Well, I it's inevitable. Everybody passes one day, so you 111 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: come to terms with it. 112 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: Any advice for those of us who are experiencing that 113 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: for the first time. 114 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: I think you have to go back. There are two deals, 115 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: the young Neil and the old Neal, and you have 116 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: to accept the old deal and embrace the old Neal. 117 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: For I'm very thankful I can walk, I can talk legibly, 118 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: and I can keep active. 119 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: Okay, So since you're bicoastal. What's the difference between LA 120 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: and New York for you? 121 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: The weather, the pace is much slower and calmer in Lah. 122 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: The people are cooler, more relaxed. In New York. It's 123 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: a crazy scene, never sleeps. I didn't write that, okay. 124 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: So you talked earlier about writing a new song, your 125 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: helper helping you with the lyrics. So all these years 126 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: you've never wrote any lyrics. 127 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: I wrote hundreds of songs by myself, and I felt 128 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: that as good as how a Greenfields was Marvelist, as 129 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: good as Still Cody was, there is something when you 130 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: write the music and words yourself, and you can it 131 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: gets from your gajaum, from the stomach, and it comes 132 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: up as a real Neil song from my experiences, from 133 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: my travels, from my whatever. 134 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: But most of your hits were co writes, right. 135 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: The big hit were the album tracks, which I strived 136 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: to make as good as the hits were put in albums. 137 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: At that time, I was a singles artist, so there 138 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: were some great songs that were buried in albums. I 139 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 2: called them the forgotten children or the neglected children. I'm 140 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: very proud of them. 141 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: You know, some people just making their music. Other people 142 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: are students of the game, the charts, the business. Where 143 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: do you lie on that continuum. 144 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: I look at publicity, I look at the charts, and 145 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: many times I'm inspired by a voice on the radio 146 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 2: love will keep Us Together. In fact, I was inspired 147 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: by three people, Al Green, Diana Ross, and the Beach Boys. 148 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: Let me explain. I felt that I could write a 149 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: song for these people and tailor made for their voice. 150 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: And I was able to take the voice of Diana 151 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: Ross and make it my own and a song, and 152 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,599 Speaker 2: the Beach Boys beat and Al Green's augmented chors. I 153 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: put them all together like a designer. 154 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: Okay, but many people write music and they feel like 155 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: they're channeling God. If you are writing with those influences, 156 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: are they just embedded in you or are you literally 157 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: sitting at the piano saying, mmm, I got this thought, 158 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: I got this influence, I want this harmony. Like you know, 159 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: the Beach Boys. 160 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: How do you do it well? I've listened to all 161 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: of them very intently, and yes, I have the experience 162 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: of channeling as a antenna. For a couple of the 163 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: songs I really felt came from something spiritual and passed 164 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: through my figures and voice. But that doesn't have and 165 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: very often you have to say, I'm chosen for this, 166 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: and I have to sit very still, and it writes itself. 167 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: As far as Diana ross Al Green the Beach Boys, 168 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: I literally take the beat from the Beach Boys, one 169 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: of their good records, and I take her voice and 170 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: make it into a new song for her. She's a 171 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: big star. She sold a lot, so I want to 172 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: see what made her tick. 173 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: Okay, today you are on serious radio, but are you 174 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: listening to new music? 175 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: I listen to rap. I listen to mostly classical. I 176 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: started as a concert pianist at the juliad So, but 177 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: I listened to Elia Fitzgerald the greatest. I listened to 178 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra, and I certainly listened to Frank Sinatra singing 179 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: my song the Hungry Years. Well, I got a shout out. 180 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: And it's a thrill to get a Sinatra record. It's 181 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: a great thrill. Elvis record Solitaire, it's a great thrill. 182 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. So you grew 183 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: up exactly. 184 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: Where Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. Now it's the little Odessa by 185 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 2: the sea. Now it's the old Russian people from Odessa. 186 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: Okay, could you feel that was that palpable growing up there? 187 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: It was a totally Jewish neighborhood. I thought the whole 188 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: world was Jewish. And it was very very friendly. You 189 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: never locked your doors. There was no terrorists, there was 190 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 2: no burglaries. People would come in for coffee and take 191 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: oh I'm dropping in, oh place it down. It was 192 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: completely different, very very naive and Caffrey. 193 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: What did your parents do for work? 194 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: My father was a taxi driver, Maxi the taxi. My 195 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 2: mother was a housewife. 196 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: Your father drove a taxi usually that's very long hours. 197 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: No, he worked for a company, so it was regular hours. 198 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: And there was enough money to pay the bills. 199 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 2: Yes, we had an apartment for two bedroom apartment for 200 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 2: two hundred dollars a month, and we were eight people 201 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: in the apartments. My grandmother, my grandfather from Turkey, my 202 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: three aunts, my sister, my mother, and father. One by one, 203 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: my aunts got married and they left me, my sister, 204 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 2: my mother, and father, and my grandparents passed. 205 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: Where did everybody sleep. 206 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: We had beds in the living room, one bathroom, mind you, 207 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: and we were happy. It was a very happy household. 208 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: Okay, So the other people in the neighborhood. Were their 209 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: circumstances the. 210 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: Same, Yes, they were. And every Jewish family had to 211 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: have a piano or a violin. And the Jewish people 212 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: liked the culture to raise their children with some culture. 213 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: So I had to learn a piano. No, I'll tell 214 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: you exactly. I had a neighbor in the building that 215 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: had an upright piano. I was eight years old, and 216 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: I walked in and I was completely drawn to the 217 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: smell of the ivory keys on her piano. And I 218 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: noticed with one finger that I could pick out a 219 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: tune that I had heard on the radio. And my 220 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: mother went to get a job. We had no piano, 221 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: and she got a job but a and S department store 222 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: as a saleslady, and she worked for six months and 223 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 2: got five hundred dollars and bought me an upright piano 224 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: because in the second grade a te shir missus Evelyn Glance, 225 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: saw me reacting to music when she conducted the choir, 226 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: and she said, Neil, get up and conduct, and I 227 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: got up, and she sent me home with a note, 228 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: you must get a piano for Neil. 229 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: Okay, let's separate some of the issues your parents born 230 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: in the Old Country New York City. Okay, So your 231 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: grandparents are from the. 232 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 2: Old country Istebul's Turkey. 233 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: Okay, and to what degree was the Turkish culture part 234 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: of your life growing up? 235 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: They spoke Ladino Spanish, not the eshkna. So I learned 236 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: your putt la blabras en Espanol, story boy, contento, the chaos, 237 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 2: and I was able to remember muchs palabis many words today. 238 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: Okay, you did some work in Yiddish? Did they speak 239 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: Yiddish growing up? 240 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: My mother's side did the ants and knuckles? On the 241 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: Ashkenazi side spoke it. So I sang yiddishamama and bels 242 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: my state of labels, and then on the Turkish side, 243 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: I say ishadada. 244 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: Okay. So you're growing up on Brighton Beach, densely populated. 245 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: What kind of kid are you? You kind of kid 246 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: who's got a million friends or you bookish at home, 247 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: sports guy or not? 248 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: What do you like? I was not a sports guy. 249 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: I played Patsi with the girls and I couldn't ruin 250 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: my hands. My mother kept saying, this is what you shows. 251 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 2: You cannot ruin your hands and go out and play. 252 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 2: But I was good at Chinese baseball, Chinese king ball. 253 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: You know you hit the crack of the wall and 254 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: the floor. Wait wait wait, not everybody knows. Bring it 255 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: back to life. 256 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: Tell us the rules. 257 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: Well, Chinese handball, you had a nice soft ball against 258 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: a wall and you had to play against one person 259 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: and if you got the bottom where the sidewalk met 260 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: the wall, that was a special special bonus. 261 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: Okay, your sister older younger. 262 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: Eighteen months older, my hero, you're here because she was 263 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: very smart academically. She was the prettiest in school. And 264 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 2: when I followed her, they used to say, are you 265 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 2: Ronnie Sadaka's brother? Oh boy, you have to really fill 266 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: her shoes. And then later on they used to say, 267 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 2: are you Neil Sadaka's sister, the singer? 268 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: So what how did her life play out? What did 269 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: that look like? 270 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: She was just full of life. I lost her at 271 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: fifty seven years old. Wow, pancreas. And she was my hero. 272 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: She used to fight my battles in school. They would 273 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: call me various names because I would be asked to 274 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 2: play the piano when the an auditorium. When the film broke, 275 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 2: O'Neil will now play some chopin? And I played and 276 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: they giggled in the audience. 277 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: Okay, when you were successful and you were making money, 278 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: did you feel responsibility to take care of your family 279 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: and relatives? 280 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 2: I bought a home for my father and mother in 281 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 2: Fort Laddale, my sister and a cousin. 282 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so before you don't start with a piano till 283 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: second grade? Are you a good student or mediocre student? 284 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 2: Seventy five eighty? 285 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: Okay? So now your mother worked at Abraham and Strauss, 286 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: she gets the piano. How do you learn how to play? 287 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 2: I had a private teacher, Murray Newman, in Brighton Beach, 288 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: and I studied for one year and then after a 289 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 2: year he called my parents in and said, I can't 290 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: teach him anymore. Let him try out for the Julia's School, 291 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: the prep school, and I got a scholarship for the 292 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: prep school at Julliard one hundred and twenty second Street 293 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 2: and Clammont Avenue before it moved to Lincoln Center. 294 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: Okay, but before you go to Juilliard grew up in 295 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: a Jewish family like I do you? Did you know? 296 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: You start taking piano lessons, but the big issue is practicing. 297 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: So did you practice and did you play? 298 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: I practiced five hours a day. I loved it. It 299 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 2: may be special. I could then go into this classroom 300 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 2: and play the songs of the day, the Douap songs, 301 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: Earth Angel, all of those great songs, and I became popular. 302 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: I also wrote a song called mister Moon when I 303 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 2: was sixteen and played it the auditorium, and they all 304 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: screamed and shouted. Oh, he's wonderful, he's marvel. And it 305 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 2: may be important when you're important or important. 306 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: Okay, how old were you when you went to the 307 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: Juilliard School. 308 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: I was from nine till seventeen. Then I went to 309 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: the college level. 310 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: Okay, you're talking about full includes all classes in addition 311 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: to no. 312 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 2: No, the prep school was only on saturdays, where I 313 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 2: studied with great teachers. The college was a full curriculum. 314 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's go back. You're born, when you grow up, 315 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: World War two is happening. When you gain consciousness, it's 316 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: just over. Could you feel that at all? Could you 317 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: feel the war, the end of the war, etc. Or 318 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: you were young kids living your life. 319 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: I knew when Franklin J. Eleanor Roosevelt died, everyone in 320 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 2: the streets were crying. I saw the news. The newsreels 321 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 2: at the Oceania Theater in the Tuxedo Theater. I saw 322 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 2: and was aware because two uncles of mine were in 323 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 2: the service, so I felt it. Yes, I was afraid 324 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 2: of Hitler. My sister said Hitler's waiting in the bathroom, 325 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: and I was about six years old. I said what 326 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: what what? And she scared the hell out of me. 327 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: And miss Alita was a meetie and the Jacks and 328 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 2: the Japs were sapped. 329 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: And to what degree was their talk of the Holocaust? 330 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 2: I wasn't aware of that at that age. It was 331 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 2: much later that I was aware of it. 332 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: Okay, So this is pre transistor radio. So are you 333 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: listening to the radio? Are you listening to the hits 334 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: of the day? 335 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, I am listening to your hit parade on 336 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 2: the rail video. I am listening to Rosemary Clooney, Jeannie 337 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: ray k, Star, elephus Gerald. Loved them, loved them. 338 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: Okay. So if I talked to you when you were 339 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: in high school and I say what was your dream? 340 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: What would you have said then? 341 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: When I was in high school, Yeah, what was my dream? 342 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: To be a star? I wanted to be special. I 343 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: wanted to get away from the young Nerdi Nil Sadaka. 344 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 2: I wanted to create something that was important. I wanted 345 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 2: to be Jesus Christ. There was a sign on the 346 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 2: subway that said Jesus saves and I said, wouldn't that 347 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: be marvelous to have people worship me? Is that crazy 348 00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 2: or what? 349 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: Not at all? And I thank you for being honest. 350 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: To be that successful, you have to feel that way. However, 351 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: many people who achieved great success, which you did very 352 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: soon they have that success and they think it will 353 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: solve all their problems and then they find out it doesn't. 354 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: A lot of those people can never write another hit song. 355 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: So you wanted to be a star, you wanted to 356 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: be famous, you wanted to be respected. That actually happened. 357 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: Was that fulfilling? 358 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I used to take a forty five rpm scratch 359 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 2: out the name of the artist, and with my pen 360 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 2: I'd put Nil sajakat to see how it looked. It 361 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 2: was very, very flattering and very wonderful. 362 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: Okay, you go to one hundred and twenty second Street 363 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: prior to going to Juilliard. To what degree did your 364 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: family go into Manhattan? 365 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: Oh? My father was very cheap, sweet guy. But I 366 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 2: used to say, oh, Dad, could we go in to 367 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 2: Manhattan to the Brass Rail restaurant that was the fancy 368 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 2: one at the day, you remember, And he said, oh, no, 369 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: lo tango, Neil, I don't I'm short with money. Nolo tango. 370 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 2: And once in a while I convinced him when we 371 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 2: went to the Brass Rail. It was a great treat 372 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: to go to Manhattan. Oh, a radio City musical, the 373 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: Christmas Show, the Roquettes. It was great. 374 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: So you weren't going to the musicals or anything. 375 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 2: Not that, not at my age at that time. 376 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: Okay, so now you're a big guy in a small 377 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: world and you go to Juilliard on the weekend. What's 378 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: that like? And you see everybody else who's good? 379 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: Uh? I was topped by medi great pianists. I studied 380 00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 2: with adel Marcus, Rosina, Levine, Edgar Robert's great people, and 381 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 2: there were students that were better than me in classical. However, 382 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 2: I had one upsmanshift. I could write songs that I 383 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 2: could sing, and that set me apart. And they said 384 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: to me, what is an Elvis Presley? I said, what 385 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 2: we hear about Elvis Presley? These people did nothing but 386 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 2: play Beethoven and Mozart. What is an Elvis Presley, I said, 387 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: he says a rock and roll singer? What is rock 388 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 2: and roll? They were completely sheltered. 389 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: Okay, if you're born in nineteen thirty nine, The first 390 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: rock and roll record is debated. Some people would say 391 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: it's Rocket eighty eight by Eke Turner. Other people say 392 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: Rock around the Clock. What was it like your experience 393 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: when rock hit the radio? 394 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 2: It was a two up song at Andreas Pieter Pauler 395 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 2: on Brighton Beach Avenue and I went in with my 396 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: girlfriend Carol Klein, who became Carol King, and we danced 397 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 2: to Earth Angel by the Penguins. That was the first. 398 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: Okay, well wait, let's go sideways for a second. How 399 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: did you meet Carol kleinb. 400 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: She was in a neighboring school and we hung out 401 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 2: with musical people, musical teenagers, and she had a group 402 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: called the Coast Signs. I had a du up group 403 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 2: called the Tokens, who went on to do the line 404 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 2: Sleeps to Night. I left as a soloist. But we 405 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 2: would go to different places and we found a piano 406 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 2: and we would singing together and she would show me 407 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 2: her writing. I would show her my writing and she 408 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 2: was a genius. She was an absolute genius. 409 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: Now this was a romance or just friendship. 410 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: A little bit of each, a little bit of both. 411 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so you hear earth Angel, tell me more about 412 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: discovering rock and roll. 413 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 2: And then I went to Howie Greenfield. At the time, 414 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 2: we were writing in the style of George Gershwin, Irving Berlin, 415 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: Cole Porter. And when I heard earth Angel, I said, Howie, 416 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 2: I would like to write a rock and roll song. 417 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 2: He said, oh that crap. Oh no, you got to 418 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: be kidding. Neil and I convinced him to write rock 419 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 2: and roll and our first song was called The Diary 420 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven fifty eight, and I walked into a 421 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: publish Howie and I walked into a publishing firm at 422 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: the Brill Building. As a matter of fact, we were 423 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: the first team to go to the Brill Building. I 424 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: then brought Carol King and Jerry Goffin and Barryman and 425 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: Cynthia While great writers. And it was Al Evans and 426 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 2: John Kershner who started Oldsen Music. And I met crossing 427 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: the street my two friends from school, More Trumann, great 428 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 2: writer and his co writer. I'll think of it, and 429 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: they said there's a new publishing firm, Oldsen Music across 430 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: the street who caters to young writers. And we went 431 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 2: in and I played four or five new songs, including 432 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 2: Stupid Cupid, and they said, where did you steal these songs? Said, no, 433 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: we wrote these songs. And they said, oh, we know 434 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: Connie Francis. We're just signed a contract. And I was 435 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 2: nineteen under age and I had to bring my mother 436 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: in to sign a publishing contract to sign for me. 437 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: And they brought me to Connie Francis's home after I signed, 438 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: and Connie Francis was the biggest singer in a female 439 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 2: singer at the time. She's sang who Sorry now? And Uh, 440 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 2: I played all of my songs. She said, no, I 441 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: don't like it. I don't like it. And then I 442 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: whispered to Howie, I'm going to play stupid Cupid. He said, 443 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 2: you can't play that. You promised it to the Shepherd's sisters. 444 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 2: He said, you're right, but I don't get a damn. 445 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 2: I'm playing it for the top female vocals of the country. 446 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 2: I'm going to do it. Stupid Cupid. You're a realing guy. 447 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: I like to criop your wing, so you can't fly. 448 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 2: She said, stop, that's my next record, and it was 449 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: a hit. 450 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: Okay, wait, wait, let's go back to few chapters. How 451 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: did you meet Howie Greenfield? 452 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: I was thirteen and he was sixteen. We lived in 453 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: the same ability in Brighton Beach and his mother had 454 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 2: heard me playing classical music and she suggested that he 455 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 2: knocked at my door and asked me if I wanted 456 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 2: to write songs. October the eleventh, nineteen fifty two, he 457 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: came to my door and said, would you like to 458 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 2: write songs? I said, I don't have the foggiest idea 459 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: how to do that. I'm sorry, Howie, but I'm going 460 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: to be a constant pianist. And he said, try it, 461 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: try it. And he had a wire recorder before tape, 462 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: and we wrote a terrible song called My Life's Devotion. 463 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: It was like a ruptured rumba from an Exabia Cougot 464 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: movie I had heard. And after we finish, we were 465 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 2: obsessed with rhymes. My life is madness, it's sadness, it burns, 466 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 2: but desire yearning's just burning. My soul is on fire. 467 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: Terrible song and I recorded it after we finished on 468 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: his wire and I listened to my voice. I said, 469 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 2: holy shit, this is a good voice. I had never 470 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 2: sung before, never before. 471 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: Okay, did you just work with Howie or were you friends? 472 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 2: We were very good friends, very good friends. 473 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: Okay, we hear you know Elton John, He and Bernie 474 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: write in two rooms. Bernie gives the lyric and then 475 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: Elton does the music. How did you write with Howie? 476 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 2: He was across the hall, same building. I would come 477 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 2: with a tune to his apartment and with a title 478 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: or an idea, and then he would help me with 479 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 2: the lyrics, and finally I gave him the full treatment. Howie, 480 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 2: you're such a great writer. You do the lyrics and 481 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: there we are. 482 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: Okay, if you met in fifty two, at what point 483 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: did you make that deal with ault Don fifty. 484 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 2: Six seven fifty eight? 485 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: So what happened in that five seven year period? 486 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: We were writing for Atlantic Records, Jerry Wexler, armed Ertigan, 487 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 2: I wrote for Laverne Baker, a lot of black artists, 488 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: Clyde McPhatter, the Clovers, the Cardinals, and I wrote for 489 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 2: Bobby Darren And it was just, you know, we pedal 490 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 2: songs to Atlantic Records. 491 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so now you and how we are writing? Yeah, 492 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: how long after you meet on October eleventh, do you say, 493 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: let's go shop this. 494 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: The first three songs were lousy. The fourth song got better, 495 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 2: the fifth song got even better, and we went and shopped. 496 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 2: We went to a very big publishing firm, I'll think 497 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: of them, and they had the oldser writers, you know, 498 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 2: the standard writers, and they passed on all of our songs. 499 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, just wait wait wait. You're a little 500 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: pischer and you write a song. You're thirteen years old? 501 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 2: Hey, how do you find I was about fifteen then? 502 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: Okay, still young, you're fifteen years old? How do you 503 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: find the publisher? And you just go knock on the 504 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: door and what happens. 505 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: Howie was a gopher at a publishing firm, and he 506 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 2: had an inside scoop on the other publishing firms. The 507 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 2: young ones like olds and music, and so did bought Schumann, 508 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 2: who I went to school with. He dhu of olds 509 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 2: in music. 510 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about all these people, you know, Goffin 511 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: and King and whatever was it in the air and 512 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: all of you were trying to do it or were 513 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: you really the progenitor and you didn't know what you 514 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: were doing, but you were leading. 515 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 2: We were the first team, and once it got competitive, 516 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 2: we would all try for the net Chiffon's record. Carol 517 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 2: and Jerry wrote He's So Fine. No, they wrote One 518 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 2: Fine Day, and I wrote with Howie it Hurts to 519 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 2: be sixteen, and Barrion Cynthia wrote something else, the best 520 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 2: song one out. We would then play it for Alan 521 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 2: Dahn on a big red piano in their office, and 522 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: the best song one out I lost to Carol King 523 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 2: One Fine Day, but it Hurts to Be sixteen was 524 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 2: recorded by Andrea Carroll and it was a hit. So 525 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 2: I got a little rubbed there. 526 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: Okay, that era is notorious for bad deals. You signed 527 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: the deal with al Don for stupid Stupid. It said, 528 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: what kind of deal is it? 529 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 2: They got one hundred thousand dollars. I got zilch, zilch. 530 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 2: I only got on fifty dollars a week as a 531 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 2: staff writer, and royalties if the song was sold, the 532 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 2: record was sold, I got every record that was sold, 533 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: the writing royalty. 534 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: Okay. Traditionally there's one hundred cents in the dollar in publishing. 535 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: Fifty cents goes to the writer. The other fifty cents 536 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: goes to the publisher. Once we hit the rock era, 537 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: the acts became their own publisher but in the fifties 538 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: the publishers tended to take all fifty percent in terms 539 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: of royalties as the writers. Did you and how we 540 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: get fifty percent? 541 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 2: You know? I was not really up to the money. 542 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 2: I was about the creative side. My mother took over 543 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:03,479 Speaker 2: the accounts, took over everything. And my mother had a lover. 544 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 2: She had a lover for many years. She came to 545 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 2: Ronnie and I and said, I have a lover. What 546 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 2: do you think I will leave him if I don't 547 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 2: have your blessing and Ronnie's blessing. I said, does Zad 548 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 2: know and she said, yes, he's accepted it. But I 549 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 2: want your acceptance. I said, Mom, if you're happy, great, 550 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 2: If Dad accepts it, great, I want you to be happy. Mom. 551 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 2: She took over the whole thing. She and the lover. 552 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 2: They stole everything from me. She said, beautiful jewelry and rings, 553 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 2: and it was my money that bought all of her 554 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: jewelry with her lover. But I loved my mother. She 555 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,240 Speaker 2: was my Jewish mama. 556 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: Okay, just did you like the lover? 557 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 2: Hated him. After four years, career went down the drain. 558 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: He was an air conditioning salesman. He knew nothing about 559 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 2: the business. And I got rid of him and he said, 560 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: I'm I called. I said, Ben, we had four years together. 561 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 2: Let's call it a day. And he said, I'm coming 562 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 2: to beat you up. He was one of these and 563 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 2: I said, I'll lock the door. He said, I'll call 564 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 2: the police, and after a while he simmered down and 565 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 2: that was the end. 566 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so you sign a contract. You're working for fifty 567 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 1: dollars a week. We hear these stories about there being 568 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: multiple rooms, the teams were in there and they're banging 569 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: out forty hours a week. Was that what it was like? 570 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 2: Exactly? Exactly five days a week, nine to five. How 571 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 2: he was there with me, and if we didn't get 572 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 2: an idea that day, we got a piece of the song. 573 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 2: We put it on for the next day and eventually 574 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 2: it was And with success, you get more hits. If 575 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 2: you're successful, you want to keep number one. So I 576 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 2: had six top ten records from fifty eight to sixty 577 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 2: three and number one with breaking Up is Hard to do. 578 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 2: Happy birthday, Sweet sixteen, Little devil, Calendar girl. It was 579 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 2: a nice run from fifty nine to sixty three. 580 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: Wait wait, but before we get there, you make the deal. 581 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 1: You sell the song to Connie Francis. Yes, how long 582 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: are you writing songs with Howie before you say? Hey, 583 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: I should be an artist. 584 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 2: I had the feeling all the time that I should 585 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 2: be an artist. I went to Atlantic and sold the songs, 586 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 2: but they didn't want my voice. They said, it's true androgynous, 587 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 2: it sounds like a girl, and we don't want to 588 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 2: sign you. Then I got to Olden. They knew RCA 589 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 2: Victor Records. The head of an R was Steve Scholes, 590 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 2: and they set up an audition for me to sing 591 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 2: as a singer songwriter to be signed to RCA. And 592 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 2: at that time I played the diary and Steve Schuls 593 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 2: said we'll take you, and they signed me to a 594 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 2: recording contract. 595 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: Singing, okay, let's go back. Years later, Don Kirshner worked 596 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: with the Monkeys. People knew that of their inside, but 597 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: by the time we hit the seventies, he's a well 598 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: known factor. Don Kirshner in the day good guy, bad guy. 599 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 2: Uh, I'll never forget this. He had a rock television 600 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 2: show and I had the number one record in the 601 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 2: country in seventy five. Laughter in the Rain with Elton's label. 602 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 2: Elton signed me to a label, his label, Rocket Records, 603 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 2: and I was at the Beverly Hills Hotel with Don Kershner. 604 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 2: I said, Donnie, I'd love to be on your show. 605 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 2: He said, well, if you bring Elson on, I'll put 606 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 2: you on Son of a Bitch. I'm sorry, So you're naive, 607 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: But then people become more sophisticated. What ended up happening 608 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 2: with those songs which are legendary songs, in the ownership 609 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 2: of those songs? Which songs are you referring. 610 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: The early songs you wrote for Aldon? 611 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 2: Well, they were perennials, they went on they have played today. 612 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: No, no, no. What I'm trying to say is you signed 613 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: a contract. You were not aware. But as time goes on, 614 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: there's money and lack thereof. 615 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 2: Oh. I had a I hive accountants and lawyers absolutely 616 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,879 Speaker 2: Freddie the lawyer, and the accountants, and they got right 617 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 2: on top of it. 618 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: Okay, and that's an early song. But did you get 619 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: the songs back under rights of reversion? 620 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 2: I re recorded Happy Birthday steet sixteen calendar Girl, Break 621 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 2: it Up. It's hard to do almost exactly like the 622 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 2: original master And I was able to sell those. I 623 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 2: owned them, like Teyliswhip. I owned these. I was able 624 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 2: to sell it for commercials on television because these were mine. 625 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: Now those are the recordings, though, but that's a different 626 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: right than the song. 627 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 2: I got the publishing rights finally, how it ran out? 628 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 2: The contract ran out with Alan down, and I stupidly 629 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 2: I got the kind I got the publishing, and I 630 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 2: stupidly sold the publishing a year later for half a minute, 631 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 2: five and a half million dollars. Oh, I was so happy. 632 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 2: Little did I know that it would be millions in 633 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,320 Speaker 2: the future. Schmuck that I am. 634 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: Just so No, was that it? Or did you ever 635 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 1: get the songs back again? 636 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 2: I never got the songs back again. 637 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so you make a deal with RCA, you're farting around? 638 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: How long until you have a hit? 639 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,240 Speaker 2: Was that? The first career of the second career? 640 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: First career? 641 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 2: The first record with RCA was a hit. The Diary 642 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 2: sold six hundred thousand records, went to number twenty two 643 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 2: in Billboard. That was the first one. Oh, but I 644 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 2: had two others, excuse me, I had. I befriended a 645 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 2: comedian named Lenny Maxwell who heard me playing at the 646 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 2: Lake Charlton Hotel in New Hampshire. I was with the 647 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 2: band and I was seventeen and he heard me playing 648 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 2: and he said, gee, with you have no record company, nothing, 649 00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 2: no publisher. I said no. He said, I know Phil Ramone, 650 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 2: the great producer. Make a demo of your voice and piano. 651 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 2: I will take it to Decca. Put a piano, put 652 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 2: a bass, a guitar and a drum on it, and 653 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 2: lo and behold. He handed me a finished Jecca record. 654 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 2: Kneels to Jaka saying fly don't fly on me. A 655 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 2: great flop, and then So Time, a great flop. Those 656 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 2: two were flops before the Diary, before Rcier. 657 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 1: So okay, she had this deal with Decca. Tell me 658 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: about O Carol. 659 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 2: They were dropping me. Rcier was dropping me because I 660 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 2: had two flops in a row. After the Diary, I 661 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 2: go eight, which they hated and nobody hated. And then 662 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 2: they said we're giving you one more shot. I said, please, 663 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 2: I won one more shot, and my mother was ironing, 664 00:44:54,800 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 2: I'll never forget it. Nineteen fifty nine, super Zion, I 665 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 2: was at the piano in desperation. I said, let me 666 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 2: save my singing career with RCA. What can I write, 667 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 2: and I bought the number one records in every country 668 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 2: in the world. They had hits of the world in Billboard, 669 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 2: and they. 670 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: Look. 671 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 2: I analyzed them. What's the drum beat in number one 672 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 2: in Hungary, what's the guitar lick in Venezuela, what's the 673 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 2: drum beat in caracas Uh? And I analyzed them and 674 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:47,320 Speaker 2: put together, piecemeal a new song, drum beat, the electric 675 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:54,399 Speaker 2: guitar riff, the drum fills, and I wrote, Oh Carol ps. 676 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 2: I sold four million records with Oka, We're a. 677 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: Little bit slower. You write the music, How does how 678 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: we write the lyrics? 679 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 2: He hated it. He hated it. I had to convince 680 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 2: him to write the lyric, and he didn't like Carol King. 681 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 2: He said, I'm not writing a song called Oh Carol. 682 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 2: That was my suggestion, and I convinced him to write it. 683 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 2: On the session, I had a recitation. In those days, 684 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,319 Speaker 2: the middle of the record was, Oh Carol, I am 685 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 2: but a fool darning I love you, though you treat 686 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 2: me cruel, and how he ran into the bathroom. Not 687 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 2: only is my lyrics shit, but you had to recite 688 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,799 Speaker 2: my lyrics in the middle of the record. I said, 689 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 2: how he trust me? And there it was. 690 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 1: Okay, you wrote this song in the brill building at 691 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,919 Speaker 1: my home at home, that's my question, right, bit did 692 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: you know it was going to be a hit when 693 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: I heard the record back, I knew it. 694 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 2: I knew it. 695 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So you deliver it to RCA. What do they say? 696 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 2: This is a smash. This is a smash and it 697 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 2: was number one in almost all over over the world. 698 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,239 Speaker 1: Okay, So how did your life change? You have a 699 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: number one record? 700 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,040 Speaker 2: Oh my godness, ah, I think, as I said, with 701 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 2: success comes more success, and then I was able to 702 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 2: do the other do up songs of the day, all 703 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 2: of the early hits from nineteen fifty nine to sixty three. 704 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: Okay, at what point did you leave your house have 705 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:48,439 Speaker 1: your own place to live. 706 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 2: I stayed with my family until I was married, and 707 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 2: I'm married sixty sixty three years to the same woman, Liba, 708 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 2: and my mother, who is a very Jewish mother, said, 709 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 2: I will get you an apartment, Neal. It's right across 710 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:14,720 Speaker 2: the street so I can visit you and the coming grandchildren. Yes, 711 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 2: I was a mama's boy. 712 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: Oh okay, Oh, Carrol's a number one hit. Are you 713 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: performing live? 714 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 2: I started to perform live. Yes, I did in Syracuse, 715 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:35,440 Speaker 2: the Rivers in in Syracuse, I did the in New Jersey, 716 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 2: this smart spot like five six, seven hundred people. I 717 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 2: didn't want to do rock and roll to his I 718 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 2: want to be like Honey Francis. She did adult copa cavanas. 719 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 2: Finally I went into the copa cavana in New York. 720 00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: To what degree did you go on the road or 721 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: was it all pretty much in the New York area. 722 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 2: I went on the road, but only the cabarets, only 723 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,520 Speaker 2: the adult cabarets with a big band, And I had 724 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,720 Speaker 2: an act at the time where I sang my funny 725 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,920 Speaker 2: Valentine and the standards of the day smile though your 726 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 2: heart is breaking. With a big band. It flopped because 727 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 2: I should have been doing my own songs. But I 728 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 2: wanted to appeal to the adults because I knew that 729 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 2: the range of my success would fall. Eavely Brothers had 730 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,759 Speaker 2: five years, Frat Salvenho had five years, Connie Francis had 731 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 2: five years, and then Caput who was finished. So I 732 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:42,760 Speaker 2: wanted to appeal to the adults. 733 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 1: Okay, you have this hit, to what degree do you 734 00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,840 Speaker 1: feel pressure to follow it? Up and how do you 735 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: come up with Calendar Girl? 736 00:49:55,160 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 2: I was in Howie's apartment in Brooklyn, Brighton Beach and 737 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,720 Speaker 2: Uh we saw and TV guide an old movie called 738 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 2: Calendar Girl. I said that would make a great title 739 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 2: every month of the year, and I set it the 740 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 2: piano boom. There was a tune called uh you Got personality? 741 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember, and it was a shuffle beat 742 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,759 Speaker 2: on the on the drum, I love my love, I 743 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 2: love the Calendar. I saw that the beat would accommodate 744 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:40,399 Speaker 2: my new tune, the beat of personality boom, and we 745 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 2: finished it in two and a half hours each month 746 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 2: to a different girl. 747 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,359 Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. You have the big hit 748 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: with old Carol, to what degree do you feel pressure 749 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,359 Speaker 1: to have another hit? And to what degree you have 750 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,360 Speaker 1: confidence you can deliver or not deliver. 751 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,800 Speaker 2: I wanted it with a vengeance. I knew I didn't 752 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 2: want to be a one shot wonder, and I sat 753 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 2: down with the most the most self assuredness you can imagine. 754 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,799 Speaker 2: I wanted to stay there. I wanted to stay at 755 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:26,919 Speaker 2: number one. Unfortunately, they trickled to five and six, which 756 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,359 Speaker 2: is great a top ten record, but in sixty three 757 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 2: the bottom fell. 758 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,359 Speaker 1: Out well before we get to sixty three. Okay, your right, calendar, girl. 759 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,319 Speaker 1: You know it's going to be a hit. 760 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:43,840 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, that's a bigger hit than Oh Carol. 761 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:44,920 Speaker 1: What did it feel like. 762 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,400 Speaker 2: That I was on the right track, that I could 763 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:53,440 Speaker 2: match the culture of the day, I could blend in 764 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 2: with what was happening. I could please people a certain way, 765 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,400 Speaker 2: the way they felt I was in tune with them. 766 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: Okay, you were on the cusp of the switch from 767 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,600 Speaker 1: radio to TV. To what degree was that palpable in 768 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: your life? 769 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:17,280 Speaker 2: In radio? They only heard Nil Sazaka's voice. When TV started. 770 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 2: I was on the Carol Burnett Show, on the MURV Griffin, 771 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 2: the Mike Douglas, the Osmans, and they saw a face 772 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,759 Speaker 2: with the voice. Hey, here's a nice face. We've heard 773 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,359 Speaker 2: his voice. He's like he looks like somebody I went 774 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,400 Speaker 2: to school with. Or uh, he looks like your favorite 775 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,520 Speaker 2: bank killer. Uh, he's the most unlikely looking rock and 776 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:51,319 Speaker 2: roll star. And they liked it. They felt I was approachable. 777 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: Okay, you're living in Brighton Beach. At what point does 778 00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:55,560 Speaker 1: your family get a television? 779 00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 2: I tried to convince Maxie the Taxi no Tango tang O'Neil. Finally, 780 00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,040 Speaker 2: after a year of begging, we got a ten inch 781 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,040 Speaker 2: television with the antenna on the roof. Go up on 782 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,839 Speaker 2: the roof or the snow, the snow, move the move 783 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,200 Speaker 2: the antenna this way, that way, this way that and 784 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,959 Speaker 2: there I saw Melton Burrell and I saw your show 785 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,680 Speaker 2: of shows, said Caesar and imaging Coca, and it was 786 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,400 Speaker 2: it was. It was marvelous, marvelous. And before that, a 787 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,719 Speaker 2: friend of mine said, you see your radio, O'Neil, it's 788 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,759 Speaker 2: going to have a screen one day. You see the 789 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,839 Speaker 2: people talking. I said, you're full of it. How the heck, 790 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 2: how can that be? 791 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,560 Speaker 1: Okay, you have a huge hit with Calendar Girl. Tell 792 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: me about breaking Up is Hard to Do? 793 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,080 Speaker 2: Okay. I came up with the title. I thought it 794 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 2: was very significant. 795 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,160 Speaker 1: How'd you come up with the title? 796 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,359 Speaker 2: I thought of it? I thought, I like the way 797 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,080 Speaker 2: it wrote rolled off my Okay. 798 00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,319 Speaker 1: Bob Crue had a philosophy and he taught it to 799 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,240 Speaker 1: Desmond Child. Did you come up with the title first? 800 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,640 Speaker 1: Was that something that you embraced? 801 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 2: Yes, I came up with breaking Up his Heart to 802 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:18,239 Speaker 2: Do and the tune and how we liked it, and 803 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,000 Speaker 2: we sat with it for a week. We dropped it. 804 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,080 Speaker 2: The next week we picked up a few more bars 805 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:30,080 Speaker 2: and I said, it's great on the piano, but it's 806 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,640 Speaker 2: not a hit until you get into the studio, until 807 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 2: the musicians lock in with the feel. So I wrote 808 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:43,200 Speaker 2: out the chors scheme, the bass part, I wrote out 809 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,520 Speaker 2: the drum licks, and they read it off my sheets, 810 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:53,560 Speaker 2: and little by little they got into the groove of 811 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 2: my song. And then when it was finished, Bob I said, 812 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:03,080 Speaker 2: this is a fucking number one. There's no doubts. Multiple 813 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,480 Speaker 2: three meals, two on the top and one of the bottom, 814 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,240 Speaker 2: multiple voices. We only had three tracks in those days. 815 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:17,720 Speaker 1: Recording was very different in those days. A expensive usually 816 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,840 Speaker 1: in the record company's studio c union. You're going to 817 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,560 Speaker 1: make a record, to what degree are you in control 818 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,279 Speaker 1: in terms of picking the musicians, etc. 819 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 2: I was able to pick musicians. I was. I was 820 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,680 Speaker 2: only three hours. You had to do three songs and 821 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 2: three hours that's what they gave me as their budget, 822 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,600 Speaker 2: and if you went over you'd have to pay. But 823 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,879 Speaker 2: I stuck to the three hours. 824 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,839 Speaker 1: So when you did breaking up as hard to do, 825 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,400 Speaker 1: you cut that song in two other songs in three hours. 826 00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:01,000 Speaker 2: Yes, I break it up with two takes, two takes. 827 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,600 Speaker 2: We were hasted, but the takes were two. 828 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,880 Speaker 1: And what was on the record you were singing? What 829 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,280 Speaker 1: else was on the record? Bass? 830 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:18,360 Speaker 2: Drums, guitar, keyboard and three meals free, multiple meals? 831 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,200 Speaker 1: And in retrospect would we say you were the producer 832 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,640 Speaker 1: or was there another producer? 833 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,080 Speaker 2: Al Evans was a producer, great producer. I did not 834 00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:32,000 Speaker 2: have any knowledge of that. Little by little I would 835 00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:37,360 Speaker 2: sit with Al in the room and go over the 836 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:42,840 Speaker 2: balance with him, the mastering room, the recording room, the balance, 837 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,279 Speaker 2: what more of this? Less of this? 838 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,760 Speaker 1: Okay? Al is producing? What made him a great producer? 839 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,759 Speaker 2: He was a musician originally call He was in a 840 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:58,480 Speaker 2: group called the Three Sons on RCA and they had 841 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:03,120 Speaker 2: a number one record, heavy Ly Chase of Lighter Falling. 842 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,000 Speaker 2: It's while a time, Da Da Da da, And he 843 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,080 Speaker 2: was very musical. 844 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,399 Speaker 1: Okay, back in those days you cut breaking up as 845 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: hard to do. How long before it hits the radio 846 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:18,720 Speaker 1: in retail? 847 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 2: A couple of weeks, three weeks, four weeks most. 848 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 1: Okay, that was just a gigantic kit. What was it 849 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:31,680 Speaker 1: like for you? 850 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:37,160 Speaker 2: Oh? I bought my first car, my Chevy and Palla 851 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 2: White with the Wings. I. I was on the radio, 852 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 2: every channel. I turned up the radio on King's Highway 853 00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:49,520 Speaker 2: in Brooklyn, and I listened, and everybody on the street 854 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,680 Speaker 2: listens to the eelsa daks. Then you break it up. It 855 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,240 Speaker 2: was a thrill, an absolute thrill. 856 00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: Okay, top forty radio. There's forty records on the chart 857 00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,120 Speaker 1: to what degreed? Did you know the other hit makers? 858 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,240 Speaker 2: I knew them very well, very well. I knew the 859 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:10,840 Speaker 2: writers and the singers. 860 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,880 Speaker 1: Okay, you have these three. Two of them are just 861 00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:19,400 Speaker 1: absolutely gigantic kits. You're thinking to yourself, what's next for me? 862 00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:26,280 Speaker 2: What's next to equal it or more better? Top it? 863 00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,080 Speaker 2: Top it? And I got next Door to an Angel 864 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,840 Speaker 2: was the next record. It went before pretty good. You 865 00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 2: can't be a Kaza. Don't be a Kaza deal. You 866 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,920 Speaker 2: know four is great? You can't be number one every time? 867 00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,080 Speaker 1: Okay, when did you realize it was not going in 868 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:49,840 Speaker 1: the right direction? 869 00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:57,200 Speaker 2: After too many Trilla laws and Doobie doos. Nineteen sixty 870 00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,960 Speaker 2: three it fell out and I didn't have another chart 871 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,040 Speaker 2: record until nineteen seventy five. 872 00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:10,200 Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about sixty three. Yes, let's go through 873 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: your brain. 874 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,840 Speaker 2: I walked down the street and people stopped me. Didn't 875 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,880 Speaker 2: you used to be Nil Sadaka? Oh too bad? Uh? 876 00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:26,160 Speaker 2: Then I had a manager who said, Dick Fox is 877 00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,400 Speaker 2: a great ancient manager. Go to England because it's not 878 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:31,640 Speaker 2: long before then. 879 00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,160 Speaker 1: Okay, I wrote, there's like seven or eight years there. 880 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:38,160 Speaker 1: You're in the wilderness. 881 00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:44,200 Speaker 2: Got it? I jumped. I wrote for Tom Jones, I 882 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,360 Speaker 2: wrote for Peggy Lee. I wrote for the Fifth Dimension. 883 00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,680 Speaker 2: But it wasn't me singing. It was great, you know, 884 00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,440 Speaker 2: I made money, but it wasn't me singing, and I 885 00:59:54,480 --> 01:00:00,880 Speaker 2: wanted it desperately to sing again. Ok I won. 886 01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:05,000 Speaker 1: So if we had this conversation in nineteen sixty six, 887 01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,160 Speaker 1: we're having a heart to heart, what would you have 888 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:07,600 Speaker 1: told me. 889 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to come back. I'm going to study the 890 01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:17,120 Speaker 2: singer songwriter. I'm going to study Jonny Mitchell. I'm going 891 01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:24,520 Speaker 2: to study Gordon Lightfoot. I'm going to study so many greats. 892 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:31,040 Speaker 2: Then you know, okay, okay, okay, So Jameson get the 893 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:31,680 Speaker 2: rights back? 894 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 1: You sell them for this money. There's tax et cetera. 895 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:39,000 Speaker 1: In this career, which is going on for almost seventy years. 896 01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Have you always had money or if you had times 897 01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:42,520 Speaker 1: where we were broke. 898 01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:49,000 Speaker 2: I had to do work as a studio musician for 899 01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,080 Speaker 2: fifty dollars because I was broke. 900 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:54,360 Speaker 1: And when was that. 901 01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,760 Speaker 2: Sixty five, sixty six, sixty seven? 902 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,160 Speaker 1: What year did you sell the songs? Again? 903 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,920 Speaker 2: From nineteen fifty eight to sixty three? When I sixty 904 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:14,080 Speaker 2: three till sixty seven sixty eight? Okay, are you cutting 905 01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,880 Speaker 2: this into one program or is this going to be 906 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:17,840 Speaker 2: all on tape? 907 01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: We always get into the money. It's always in the tape. 908 01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,120 Speaker 1: People feel all that person's a star. They have no 909 01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:26,880 Speaker 1: idea what it's like being on the other side. So 910 01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,280 Speaker 1: you got this big check for your songs? What'd you 911 01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:29,920 Speaker 1: do with the money? 912 01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:38,360 Speaker 2: I put the children in private schools. I got an 913 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:45,240 Speaker 2: apartment in Manhattan. My mother let go and I bought 914 01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,560 Speaker 2: a car every year, from the Cadillac, from the Chevy, 915 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:54,440 Speaker 2: went the Cadillac to the Thunderbird where the top folded 916 01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:59,800 Speaker 2: in the back that I went to a rolls Benflee. 917 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,280 Speaker 1: So in retrospect, did you blow the money? 918 01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 2: No? What happened was uh? In England? I met a 919 01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:16,600 Speaker 2: guy by the name of Elton John. Do you ever hear? 920 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:16,800 Speaker 1: Oh? 921 01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,160 Speaker 2: No? No, wait, wait, wait, whoa whoa, whoa. 922 01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,320 Speaker 1: Before we get to that, I can't get to that 923 01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:26,000 Speaker 1: story in this down period from sixty three to the 924 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:32,360 Speaker 1: early seventies. Yes, you're looking back now sixty years. No, 925 01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,600 Speaker 1: you feel like, hey, I have this month. 926 01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 2: Wasn't sixty years. 927 01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,320 Speaker 1: I had this money. I feel pretty good. And you say, god, 928 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,280 Speaker 1: I was a schmid gaggy. Look at how I spent 929 01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:43,040 Speaker 1: all my money? 930 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,080 Speaker 2: True? True? 931 01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:55,640 Speaker 1: Okay, So how did you meet your wife? 932 01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,800 Speaker 2: Her mother had a hotel in the Catskill Mountains estrum 933 01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,720 Speaker 2: a hotel. I had a band. We've talked about this. 934 01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:04,480 Speaker 2: I had a band. 935 01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:06,880 Speaker 1: Oh what a little bit slower. You have a band, 936 01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:08,360 Speaker 1: they have a hotel. How do you meet her? 937 01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:12,760 Speaker 2: She was sixteen. She was behind the desk and I 938 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,160 Speaker 2: said to my friend, the trumpet player, I'm going to 939 01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:21,600 Speaker 2: marry that girl. She's sixteen years old. I said, she's 940 01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:26,560 Speaker 2: very pretty. I'm going to ask her for adge. And 941 01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,919 Speaker 2: I wanted to impress her, so I said, she said, 942 01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,040 Speaker 2: what do you do? I wasn't a doctor or a lawyer. 943 01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 2: I said, I write songs. I don't know anybody who 944 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,200 Speaker 2: writes songs. What what did you write? I said, well, 945 01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,720 Speaker 2: I have a big record. Stupid Cupid with Connie Francis. 946 01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,760 Speaker 2: She said, I'd never heard of baby so crazy. That 947 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:54,120 Speaker 2: night she heard Stupid Cupid on the radio. I saw 948 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,840 Speaker 2: her the next day and she said, you were telling 949 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:03,320 Speaker 2: the truth. You are a song writer. Yeah, okay? 950 01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:05,840 Speaker 1: So was it an instant romance? 951 01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:11,600 Speaker 2: Instant romance? And she lived where she lived in Montcella, 952 01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:13,480 Speaker 2: New York, not far from her hotel. 953 01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,240 Speaker 1: What was the name of that deli and mant Sollo? 954 01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,240 Speaker 1: It's a famous Delhi whatever. 955 01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:25,840 Speaker 2: So how long is this interview? Babis? Where we're going? 956 01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,280 Speaker 1: We're going? Neil myself? 957 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:28,360 Speaker 2: Does this hurting? 958 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:32,880 Speaker 1: Now you have the manager who talks about going to England? 959 01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:33,720 Speaker 1: Tell us about that. 960 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 2: Dick Fox said, I could book you into the Wookie 961 01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:45,920 Speaker 2: Hollow and Liverpool, the Golden Daughter in Manchester, real drinking 962 01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:51,120 Speaker 2: men's clubs. Hey sing, oh Carol thing breaking up. It's 963 01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:55,800 Speaker 2: hard to do. I had to sing it, of course 964 01:04:55,880 --> 01:05:00,360 Speaker 2: they were the his But then I said, I'll never 965 01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:03,800 Speaker 2: have a comeback with these songs. I'll always be a 966 01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:09,960 Speaker 2: ghost from the past. So I said, Dick, what about 967 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,800 Speaker 2: the Albert Hall? What about the Festival Hall in London? 968 01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:18,720 Speaker 2: And it took him a couple of weeks, but He 969 01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:27,280 Speaker 2: booked me with THEE hughs. C. Houston, the aunt of 970 01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:32,360 Speaker 2: Whitney Houston. She was the star of the show at 971 01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:37,040 Speaker 2: the Albert Hall. I opened the show doing breaking Up, 972 01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 2: It's hard to do calendar Girl, Oh Carol, and then 973 01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:49,120 Speaker 2: I did a new song called Solitaire. The audience didn't move. 974 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:56,680 Speaker 2: They didn't move. They were like hypnotized by me singing 975 01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:01,680 Speaker 2: a new song. At the end there was thunder us applause, 976 01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,560 Speaker 2: and that's where Elton Sehn found me. 977 01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,720 Speaker 1: He no, wait, wait, wait a little bit slower. Yes, 978 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,720 Speaker 1: before that, you hook up with the guys who turned 979 01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:14,560 Speaker 1: into ten CC. 980 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,840 Speaker 2: Correct. They were called hot Legs before there were ten SEC. 981 01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,600 Speaker 2: I was working at the Battley Variety Club and their 982 01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:27,800 Speaker 2: manager who I will remember the name Lisburg. Thank you, 983 01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:32,320 Speaker 2: my goodness, you are something. And he said, Neil, I 984 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:38,400 Speaker 2: have a great new group called the Hot Legs in Stockport, England. 985 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,360 Speaker 2: I think you should do a couple of sizes with them. 986 01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:46,200 Speaker 2: I said, oh, well, let me hear them. He played 987 01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,600 Speaker 2: some of their records. I liked them. We arranged for 988 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:54,280 Speaker 2: me to go to Stockport and I recorded three songs. 989 01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:59,480 Speaker 2: I said, holy geez, these songs. This group is fabulous. 990 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:04,120 Speaker 2: In fact, I did wind up doing two albums with them, 991 01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,480 Speaker 2: the Solitaire album and the Tralla days are over with 992 01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:14,640 Speaker 2: new songs, So Nils de Daca came to a new 993 01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,280 Speaker 2: generation of listeners. 994 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so when you play the Royal Albert Hall and 995 01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:24,680 Speaker 1: you sing Solitaire, you've already made two new albums. 996 01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:26,080 Speaker 2: That is correct. 997 01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,560 Speaker 1: And to what degree were they commercially accepted? 998 01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,920 Speaker 2: They were very big in England, very very big in America. 999 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:40,360 Speaker 2: Nothing until Rocket Records Elton started. 1000 01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,120 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get that break. So how does Elton 1001 01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:43,720 Speaker 1: approach you? 1002 01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,920 Speaker 2: He calls me up and he found out where I 1003 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,680 Speaker 2: was living, and he came to May I come to 1004 01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:57,320 Speaker 2: the apartment. I said absolutely. He said I want to 1005 01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,320 Speaker 2: hear some of their new deals to Daka so wounds. 1006 01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,520 Speaker 2: My son was ten or eleven years old living in London 1007 01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,880 Speaker 2: with me. I said, marks to the door, and he 1008 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,760 Speaker 2: went to the door and opened it. He almost fainted. 1009 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,640 Speaker 2: There was Elton John in the full regalia and he 1010 01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,080 Speaker 2: was lovely Elton. He sang Candle in the Wind for 1011 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,120 Speaker 2: me and this and that, and he said sit down 1012 01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:32,200 Speaker 2: and play and I played Stroller along Country Road. Oh, 1013 01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:36,679 Speaker 2: he said, that's very good. I'm gonna make you another 1014 01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:42,600 Speaker 2: Carol King. I said, really, I'll take it. She had tapestry. 1015 01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,280 Speaker 2: I'm Jeane Million, I'll take it, and he did. After 1016 01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,360 Speaker 2: being off the shows, let me go ahead. After be 1017 01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:54,639 Speaker 2: off the child Bow twelve years, I went to number one. 1018 01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,840 Speaker 2: There are very few people who could do that. Tina 1019 01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:57,519 Speaker 2: Turner did it? 1020 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,519 Speaker 1: Okay? He can't to your door? 1021 01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:02,400 Speaker 2: Yes. 1022 01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,519 Speaker 1: What happened to make the record number one? 1023 01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:12,040 Speaker 2: He walked into the radio station as EJ the GJ. 1024 01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,519 Speaker 2: When he walked into a station, they fainted. Play this 1025 01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:21,920 Speaker 2: nil Sadaka record deal Todaka. Wasn't he a Dooby Dooby singer? 1026 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,840 Speaker 2: Listen to it? And he got it on the air 1027 01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:31,559 Speaker 2: with his with his presence. They said, if An L. 1028 01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,800 Speaker 2: John thinks fires great, it must be great. 1029 01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,640 Speaker 1: Okay, now you have a new lyricist. Why does it 1030 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:40,719 Speaker 1: end with Howie? 1031 01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:47,439 Speaker 2: Too much? The same songs sounded too much alike. Howie 1032 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:51,360 Speaker 2: was wonderful. He could tie a ribbon around the words 1033 01:09:51,880 --> 01:10:01,760 Speaker 2: beautifully moon June, Cruon spoon, perfectly, very wholesome. I was 1034 01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:06,840 Speaker 2: at Screenshem's music. Phil Cody was a new writer and 1035 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:12,360 Speaker 2: he had an album called The Laughing Sandwich. I listened 1036 01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,720 Speaker 2: to it. Who was on the desk at somebody's office. 1037 01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,920 Speaker 2: I said, Gee, this is really good. I approached him 1038 01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:24,400 Speaker 2: the next day. I said, Uh, Phil Cody, Phil Cody, 1039 01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:29,080 Speaker 2: I'm Neil Saijaka. I'd love to write with you. And 1040 01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,280 Speaker 2: I saw his face. So he said to his friend, 1041 01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,280 Speaker 2: Neil Sajaka wants to write with me. He's like a 1042 01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:40,320 Speaker 2: ghost from that era. And his friend said, it's Neil Sajaka. 1043 01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:46,880 Speaker 2: You should Phil, you should write. We got together. It 1044 01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:54,640 Speaker 2: was magical, he wrote. He painted pictures. He he did, 1045 01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:59,880 Speaker 2: Hi didn't do boon June krun spoon he did Uh 1046 01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:05,320 Speaker 2: strolling along country roads with my baby, it starts to rain, 1047 01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:09,400 Speaker 2: it begins to pour without an umbrella, with soak to 1048 01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:14,040 Speaker 2: the skins. I mean, this was poetry. I loved it, 1049 01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:18,439 Speaker 2: and he forced me. He forced me to write new 1050 01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,840 Speaker 2: kind of melodies because of his lyric. 1051 01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:24,000 Speaker 1: How did you tell Howie you were breaking up? 1052 01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,040 Speaker 2: Well, we wrote one more song, I said, Howie, I 1053 01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:32,599 Speaker 2: really like to jump into the new singer songwriter. I'm 1054 01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:36,519 Speaker 2: writing with Phil. I know that you've been writing with 1055 01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,559 Speaker 2: Jack Keller and you've been having success. When I'm on 1056 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,559 Speaker 2: the road. He wrote with Jack Keller and we wrote down. 1057 01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,559 Speaker 2: We sat down and we wrote our last song together. 1058 01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,840 Speaker 2: It was called Our Last Song Together. It was very moving. 1059 01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,680 Speaker 2: It has titles of all the twenty years that we 1060 01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,480 Speaker 2: had written together. It was beautiful. 1061 01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:03,599 Speaker 1: Okay, how he was gay? What was it like being 1062 01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:05,160 Speaker 1: gay in the fifties? 1063 01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:11,759 Speaker 2: Not good? Not good? He would keep it in the closet. 1064 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:23,240 Speaker 2: He would have quiet interludes with the rent men. And 1065 01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:27,559 Speaker 2: then he met a wonderful man, Torri Damon, who he 1066 01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:28,960 Speaker 2: spent the rest of his life with. 1067 01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,280 Speaker 1: I jumped he was in the closet, but you and 1068 01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:38,519 Speaker 1: the people around him knew he was gay. Yes, okay, 1069 01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:40,840 Speaker 1: let's jump forward. Tell me about laughter in the. 1070 01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:52,160 Speaker 2: Rain, pentatonic scale, all the black notes, Aaron Copeland, open canyons, 1071 01:12:52,840 --> 01:13:00,479 Speaker 2: open fields, trees and grass and rain. It was. I 1072 01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:04,400 Speaker 2: wanted to capture that musically. I played it for Phil. 1073 01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,559 Speaker 2: He said, where the hell did you get that? That's great? 1074 01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:13,120 Speaker 2: I said, well, I was working before you came, and 1075 01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:18,200 Speaker 2: this is it. He said, I the words talk to me. 1076 01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:22,639 Speaker 2: Let me go away into the fields for an hour 1077 01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:28,520 Speaker 2: and it wasn't raining. He came back with this magnificent 1078 01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:34,760 Speaker 2: Two people soaked and they were laughing. And happy and 1079 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:39,160 Speaker 2: in love. It was such a wonderful lyric. Wonderful lyric. 1080 01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,800 Speaker 1: It goes to number one. 1081 01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:49,040 Speaker 2: What is the like after twelve years? Right? The ultimate? Vell? 1082 01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:56,880 Speaker 2: You know that? That worse? The ultimate? I mean I 1083 01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:02,880 Speaker 2: thought I was jetten buried jed bar and I wasn't 1084 01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,120 Speaker 2: because I wanted a badly. 1085 01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,599 Speaker 1: Do people tweet you differently now that you're back? 1086 01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:17,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely? Because I could reinvent myself where a lot of 1087 01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:22,080 Speaker 2: the one shot wonders could not do that. I had 1088 01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:27,080 Speaker 2: musical background. I studied classical music for many years. As 1089 01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:30,120 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, I'm jumping. I wrote my first 1090 01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:34,800 Speaker 2: piano concerdo Manhattan and to mezzo, and my first symphony, 1091 01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:40,680 Speaker 2: Jois de Vive, which I recorded with the London Symphony. 1092 01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:44,480 Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about bad Blood. 1093 01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:51,360 Speaker 2: Okay, Phil? And I sat down. I had had Love 1094 01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:55,439 Speaker 2: in the Shadows a hit, I had the immigrant hit, 1095 01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,599 Speaker 2: and I wanted to change the pace again. I don't 1096 01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,920 Speaker 2: like to repeat myself in the mood and the tempo feel. 1097 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:09,000 Speaker 2: So I was at the piano. There was an old 1098 01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:15,320 Speaker 2: beat bo diddly bah bah bah b. I'm gonna take 1099 01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:20,280 Speaker 2: that beat. It could have been me, but it was 1100 01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:25,240 Speaker 2: you have nothing to do with him, but it was 1101 01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,960 Speaker 2: a new tune to an old beat. I mixed the two. 1102 01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:32,479 Speaker 1: How did it end with Elton? 1103 01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:39,759 Speaker 2: Not great? With still friends, I'm happy to say. After 1104 01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:46,960 Speaker 2: the success, my contract ran up and he said, of 1105 01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:53,400 Speaker 2: course you you're going to say with Bracket Records. I said, well, 1106 01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:58,160 Speaker 2: I have to listen to my lawyers and accountants. How 1107 01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:02,479 Speaker 2: much will you pay me to resign? He said nothing. 1108 01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:09,040 Speaker 2: I I made you a star again. I said, oh, 1109 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:11,120 Speaker 2: but you made a lot of money, and I, yes, 1110 01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:14,559 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I certainly understand you made me a star, 1111 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,599 Speaker 2: but it was my writing and singing. And he said, 1112 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,840 Speaker 2: you're right. And I went to Electra, who gave me 1113 01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:28,400 Speaker 2: four hundred thousand dollars an album for the next three years, 1114 01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:29,479 Speaker 2: whether they were hits or. 1115 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:35,080 Speaker 1: Not, all this time later. Good decision, bad. 1116 01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:48,320 Speaker 2: Decision, Bad decision, bad decision. They were Seatdwarmers, Smith, Joe Smith, 1117 01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:54,439 Speaker 2: Theyris and Peace Joe Smith. Electra, Uh, he didn't. We 1118 01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:59,560 Speaker 2: got George Martin to produce the first album. He was 1119 01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:05,639 Speaker 2: mouss as you know, and it was wonderful, but Electra 1120 01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:13,679 Speaker 2: didn't have the right mechanism to promote it and couldn't 1121 01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:18,360 Speaker 2: get it up there. So I didn't have very much 1122 01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:20,840 Speaker 2: success with them. It was a mistake. 1123 01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:26,000 Speaker 1: Now when you were on Rocket. Other than promoting the records. 1124 01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:29,360 Speaker 1: Did Elton have any input creatively. 1125 01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:33,040 Speaker 2: On record records? No, not at all. He loved the 1126 01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,800 Speaker 2: way I sang and wrote. As a matter of fact, 1127 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,120 Speaker 2: I went to one of his record sessions. I played 1128 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:44,760 Speaker 2: him something that I wanted to record Lonlina, I cry myselflessly, 1129 01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:49,000 Speaker 2: Tell me what am I going to do? He said, 1130 01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:52,800 Speaker 2: go ahead, Neil, I love it. Whatever you think, I'll 1131 01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:58,160 Speaker 2: back up ps Jumpin'. It was recorded by the Captain 1132 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,639 Speaker 2: and O'Neil Top three record Billboard. 1133 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:03,719 Speaker 1: Tell me about love will Keep Us Together? 1134 01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:08,880 Speaker 2: Ah, I think I did. Told you about Diana Rawson's 1135 01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:16,360 Speaker 2: and Al Green. It was I couldn't get away from it, 1136 01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:22,280 Speaker 2: the radio, the television, the commercials. I couldn't get away 1137 01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:27,960 Speaker 2: from it. It was an unbelievable feeling that I was 1138 01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:34,880 Speaker 2: correct writing that tune, and Howie was correct with writing 1139 01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:38,680 Speaker 2: that lyric. For the time, it was very you know, 1140 01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:43,680 Speaker 2: people were upset with the punk and the and the 1141 01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:48,480 Speaker 2: other rock things. They wanted a little up, a little brightness. 1142 01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,040 Speaker 1: Okay, you got back together with how we to write that. 1143 01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,080 Speaker 2: That was one of the last songs we wrote. It's 1144 01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:01,240 Speaker 2: that dormant for a couple of years, with the sense 1145 01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,280 Speaker 2: disease in an album. 1146 01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,160 Speaker 1: You recorded it and it wasn't a hit. 1147 01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:10,000 Speaker 2: It was in an album, right, I ignored it. I 1148 01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:10,880 Speaker 2: forgot about it. 1149 01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,240 Speaker 1: But when you did the original version, you didn't hear 1150 01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:15,760 Speaker 1: it as a hit. 1151 01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,280 Speaker 2: I thought it was very entertaining, but I wanted to 1152 01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:25,760 Speaker 2: put out something controversial, the Immigrant There was a time 1153 01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:30,719 Speaker 2: when strangers will welcome here and it was a top twenty. 1154 01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:34,760 Speaker 2: I would have had a number one with my love Will. 1155 01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:38,000 Speaker 2: It wasn't as good as the Captain. It's nil, but 1156 01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:38,840 Speaker 2: I would have had. 1157 01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:43,439 Speaker 1: I think, Okay, how did you hear the Captain d'anil 1158 01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,120 Speaker 1: did it? Did you hear they were gonna do it? 1159 01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:48,280 Speaker 1: Or just turn on the radio? How did you discover? 1160 01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:53,080 Speaker 2: I was living in England and someone mailed me the record? 1161 01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:56,280 Speaker 2: How he did? How he mailed me the record? He 1162 01:19:56,439 --> 01:20:00,439 Speaker 2: had driving his car one day and heard the Captain 1163 01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,640 Speaker 2: and somebody with his song and my song leve will 1164 01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:07,640 Speaker 2: keep Us Together hits a meal. You got to hear 1165 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:11,160 Speaker 2: this record? He mailed us to me to wrote London 1166 01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:16,559 Speaker 2: and I put it on the turntable. My daughter Dara 1167 01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:19,679 Speaker 2: was there and we looked at each other, Holy shit, 1168 01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:24,519 Speaker 2: this is a great record. When I got home, it 1169 01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:26,720 Speaker 2: was everywhere everywhere. 1170 01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:30,679 Speaker 1: So from the moment you heard it, you were happy 1171 01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:31,599 Speaker 1: with their arrangement. 1172 01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:39,799 Speaker 2: I was thrilled. His keyboards, the Captain's keyboards, her vocal, 1173 01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:44,800 Speaker 2: she sounded a little like Elephans Gerald and Linda Ronstead, 1174 01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,920 Speaker 2: and she was fabulous, fabulous. 1175 01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:52,560 Speaker 1: So you have this great running frocket, You make a 1176 01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:56,880 Speaker 1: number of albums for Joe Smith. It all drives up commercially. 1177 01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,000 Speaker 1: Where does that leave you emotionally? 1178 01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:05,360 Speaker 2: Uh? I will become a concert artist. That's where the 1179 01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:11,360 Speaker 2: money was for me. I want to do concerts, and 1180 01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:15,040 Speaker 2: I got the gigs and I got the money, and 1181 01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:26,160 Speaker 2: I I loved performing, loved performing, and I became a 1182 01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:26,960 Speaker 2: concert artist. 1183 01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:32,240 Speaker 1: And did you, in the back of your mind say 1184 01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm coming back one more number one? 1185 01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:39,240 Speaker 2: Well, you always have that dream. Once you're at the top, 1186 01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:47,240 Speaker 2: that feeling. You don't lose that feeling. The records were 1187 01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:51,160 Speaker 2: repackaged the greatest hits of Nil, said Jaka blah blah 1188 01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:55,479 Speaker 2: blah blah bub And I never I went back on 1189 01:21:55,560 --> 01:22:01,160 Speaker 2: the chart with an album. Uh. Raisor and Tai Records 1190 01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:07,439 Speaker 2: sign I had done a tribute concert to Joni Mitchell 1191 01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:10,639 Speaker 2: of many artists, and I sang one of her songs 1192 01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:13,720 Speaker 2: and people from Razor and Tire in the audience, and 1193 01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:18,840 Speaker 2: they signed me and they put out an album. I 1194 01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:22,840 Speaker 2: think it was called The Anthology or Nielson's Actor's Greatest Hit, 1195 01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,400 Speaker 2: and it went to number twenty on Billboard. I was 1196 01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:26,000 Speaker 2: very happy. 1197 01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:29,720 Speaker 1: And how much did you work live? 1198 01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:36,519 Speaker 2: Oh? Forty weeks a year, wow, every country of the world. 1199 01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:42,799 Speaker 2: I recorded Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Japanese, German. 1200 01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,640 Speaker 1: Now doing some research, I saw you played the villages 1201 01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:53,280 Speaker 1: in Florida that's known as a right wing retirement community. 1202 01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:55,519 Speaker 2: What was that like? The money was good and the 1203 01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:58,800 Speaker 2: people knew me, of course from the first career and 1204 01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:02,200 Speaker 2: the second career, so it was very nice. You know. 1205 01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:07,679 Speaker 1: Did you play any other of the condo tour in Florida? 1206 01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:12,320 Speaker 2: No, that was the only one, the only one. But 1207 01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:21,200 Speaker 2: I started. I remember the Eden Rock Hotel of Miami, 1208 01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:25,960 Speaker 2: and yeah I did. I did forty weeks a year 1209 01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:27,000 Speaker 2: all over the world. 1210 01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:29,280 Speaker 1: And when did you wind down? 1211 01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:36,200 Speaker 2: Ah? Then I started writing new songs and I started 1212 01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:40,719 Speaker 2: my own label and I'm very proud of the new songs. 1213 01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,960 Speaker 2: I think they weren't promoted properly. I didn't have the 1214 01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:51,320 Speaker 2: wherefore and but some of them are the neglected children 1215 01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:56,759 Speaker 2: once again. The songs are as good, if not better 1216 01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:00,120 Speaker 2: than my old songs. But you know, it's up to 1217 01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:04,840 Speaker 2: the public. What can I tell you? I thought I 1218 01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:10,479 Speaker 2: thought they were as good. The public didn't really get 1219 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,519 Speaker 2: to hear them. There was no distribution. It was on 1220 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,280 Speaker 2: social media or you know those things. 1221 01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,559 Speaker 1: And how did you decide to stop playing concerts? 1222 01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:27,879 Speaker 2: I was eighty one years old and the last concert 1223 01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:33,080 Speaker 2: was in Palm Springs. I couldn't hit the high notes. 1224 01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:38,120 Speaker 2: I I am a perfectionist. I didn't want to go 1225 01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,719 Speaker 2: out there under par. I mean a baseball player won't 1226 01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:45,439 Speaker 2: go out there if he's under par. So good, and 1227 01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:48,640 Speaker 2: I'm a perfectionist. I couldn't hit those notes. Forget it. 1228 01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:53,040 Speaker 2: I had a gorgeous voice. Just ask me, I'll tell you. So. 1229 01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:59,439 Speaker 1: You mentioned social media during COVID you did some zoom stuff. 1230 01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:00,479 Speaker 1: How did that all come to be? 1231 01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:04,559 Speaker 2: Well, we were all locked up. I had nothing here 1232 01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:09,240 Speaker 2: but just sit at the piano and make all of 1233 01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:12,800 Speaker 2: these videos of the public who were stuck at their 1234 01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:17,840 Speaker 2: house on YouTube and I got an award. It's in there, 1235 01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:23,600 Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand hits for Nil sazakas videos. I 1236 01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:28,080 Speaker 2: went back to the fifties songs, the sixty songs, the 1237 01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:32,519 Speaker 2: seventies songs, the eighties song and it was a revelation 1238 01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:35,800 Speaker 2: to me. I had to relearn them. I had to 1239 01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:40,640 Speaker 2: sing them. And it was who the hell wrote that 1240 01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:44,360 Speaker 2: it was? It was a marble's feeling and I was 1241 01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,800 Speaker 2: glad the people were happy that I did it for them. 1242 01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:49,519 Speaker 1: Was it your idea? 1243 01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:50,160 Speaker 2: Yes? 1244 01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:53,519 Speaker 1: And to what degree are you computer savvy? 1245 01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,280 Speaker 2: Not much? I had some somebody help me. I can't 1246 01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:00,439 Speaker 2: do that, Okay, let me before. 1247 01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,640 Speaker 1: What was it like when the Beatles hit for you? 1248 01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:13,160 Speaker 2: People said, didn't you used to be Neil Sazaka? It 1249 01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:20,280 Speaker 2: was a terrible drop to the ego, to the pocketbook. 1250 01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:27,719 Speaker 2: The Beatles came in, wasn't good? They changed the face 1251 01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,360 Speaker 2: of music. I thought they were marvelous. I thought they 1252 01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,920 Speaker 2: were absolutely marvelous and I could write that kind of song. 1253 01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:39,400 Speaker 2: But the public wants to do be do downtown the 1254 01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:40,120 Speaker 2: old meal. 1255 01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:44,800 Speaker 1: Okay. How important to you is legacy and that you 1256 01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:46,320 Speaker 1: and your songs are remembered. 1257 01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:51,160 Speaker 2: It has become very important to me. I say to 1258 01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:56,800 Speaker 2: myself I have left, I will leave things behind that 1259 01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:02,760 Speaker 2: will be appreciated and bringing shored people way way into 1260 01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,439 Speaker 2: the future. And it's a nice feeling. I was given 1261 01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:09,479 Speaker 2: a gift and I was able to share it with people, 1262 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:14,360 Speaker 2: and in my passing, they will continue to hear it 1263 01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:16,280 Speaker 2: and enjoy. 1264 01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:21,599 Speaker 1: It in your everyday life. Do people still know who 1265 01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:21,880 Speaker 1: you are? 1266 01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:27,400 Speaker 2: Yes, they do. The older people. Some young people get 1267 01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:31,439 Speaker 2: into nil sadaka. They'll go into the YouTube or one 1268 01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:36,040 Speaker 2: of those and see me, excuse me, they see me 1269 01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:43,000 Speaker 2: on a video on Albert Hole and singing in various concerts. 1270 01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:46,639 Speaker 1: Well, we had a huge schism in the music business 1271 01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,840 Speaker 1: at the turn of the sentry where everything went to 1272 01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:53,680 Speaker 1: the internet. A lot of people believe the internet is 1273 01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:55,879 Speaker 1: the devil. What's your viewpoint. 1274 01:27:56,920 --> 01:28:00,640 Speaker 2: I think it brought it more close to the public. Absolutely, 1275 01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:04,680 Speaker 2: and they're touching a phone, touching a computer. And it 1276 01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:09,720 Speaker 2: brought music most so to the people before it was 1277 01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:10,840 Speaker 2: a radio and a record. 1278 01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:17,240 Speaker 1: So is a hit a hit a hit and nothing changes? 1279 01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:18,479 Speaker 1: Or do things change? 1280 01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:25,080 Speaker 2: Things change? A number one record now has to sell 1281 01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:30,240 Speaker 2: in the millions. In the old days, you could sell 1282 01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,439 Speaker 2: six hundred and seven hundred thousand records like The Diary 1283 01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:35,960 Speaker 2: and it went to number twenty twenty two. 1284 01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:42,040 Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm a little younger than you, and I 1285 01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:45,080 Speaker 1: certainly remember before the Beatles, the Four Seasons and a 1286 01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:49,559 Speaker 1: lot of stuff that wasn't so good Bobby Rydell, Fabian, 1287 01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:53,680 Speaker 1: et cetera. But the Beatles were a whole cultural phenomenon, 1288 01:28:54,560 --> 01:29:00,640 Speaker 1: akin to the Renaissance in Italy. So some people say, now, oh, no, no, 1289 01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:03,760 Speaker 1: you were just alive back then. It's not the same. 1290 01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:07,439 Speaker 1: Do you believe your era was just part of the 1291 01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:11,120 Speaker 1: ongoing continuum or was it something really special going. 1292 01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:14,920 Speaker 2: On my era at the fifties or the seventies? 1293 01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:15,639 Speaker 1: Both. 1294 01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:23,840 Speaker 2: Oh. I think the first Korea was very imaginative, very creative. 1295 01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,400 Speaker 2: The songs were happy, go lucky, perfect with the time. 1296 01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:35,679 Speaker 2: Then I reinvented myself for the Elton Days, new songs, 1297 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:41,880 Speaker 2: sing a songwriter, more respected as a songwriter. I think 1298 01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:48,360 Speaker 2: the songs were most sophisticated. The chord changes were wonderful. 1299 01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:51,760 Speaker 2: It was a hold new ball game. 1300 01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,519 Speaker 1: So at this late date, you go out for lunch, 1301 01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:58,680 Speaker 1: you go out for dinner, you're talking to me, you 1302 01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:02,280 Speaker 1: have Allly Marbles, anything on the bucket list, anything you're 1303 01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:03,320 Speaker 1: looking forward to doing. 1304 01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:10,920 Speaker 2: Maybe the last nil Shazaka concers. They know I'm eighty 1305 01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,840 Speaker 2: five years old, so I'll go out and croak a little, 1306 01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:17,920 Speaker 2: but it's still on the creator. I went through all 1307 01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,000 Speaker 2: of the sixty years. I would to blow my own horn. 1308 01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:27,040 Speaker 2: There's only four artists who had hits in the fifties, sixties, seventies, 1309 01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:27,679 Speaker 2: and eighties. 1310 01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:33,479 Speaker 1: On one of them, and on that note, Neil, I 1311 01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:35,800 Speaker 1: think you've said it all. I want to thank you 1312 01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:37,960 Speaker 1: so much for taking time with my audings. I could 1313 01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:42,240 Speaker 1: talk to you forever. Great artist, great personality, upbeat after 1314 01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:43,920 Speaker 1: all these years. Thanks for taking this time. 1315 01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,200 Speaker 2: I enjoyed it, Bobby, I really did. I had to 1316 01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:49,439 Speaker 2: pick my brain, but I remembered every note. 1317 01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:55,120 Speaker 1: Okay, till next time. This is Bob left Sex