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Speaker 1: Also media, let's fucking podcast.

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Speaker 2: This is a behind the Bastards listeners, It's a podcast

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Speaker 2: about the worst people in all of history. And I

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Speaker 2: got I got very hyped there, so you might think

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a high energy podcast episode.

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Speaker 2: But I am years old or something like that, and

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Speaker 2: last night I went to bed at three am.

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Speaker 1: I just feel we have to cut that because some people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll believe it out, we'll bleep it out. So okay,

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Speaker 3: we'll bleieve it out.

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Speaker 1: Safety.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even fully remember. I just I'm telling

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Speaker 2: you right now people, I'm the kind of hungover that

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Speaker 2: you get, not because you've gotten you were drinking or

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Speaker 2: doing drugs, but because you are in your mid thirties

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Speaker 2: and you stay up slightly later than normal. That's that's

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Speaker 2: where I am right now. I'm pounding coffee. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to do better.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And here to just distracked from my my decrepit elderlyness,

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Speaker 2: is Jack O'Brien the.

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Speaker 3: Most decrepit old person you've ever seen, the crypt keeper.

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Speaker 3: What's up, guys? How are you doing? Jack? I'm doing

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Speaker 3: all right.

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Speaker 1: Why are you like seven mountain dues.

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Speaker 3: Or what's zero mountain dues in but it's still early.

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Speaker 3: What is it? Is it a security risk to tell

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Speaker 3: people how old you are or just like I don't

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Speaker 3: know what.

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Speaker 2: We like to filter out disinformation, Like there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of listeners who think my real name is and you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't tell that for a specific reason. But the

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Speaker 2: more lies there are out there, right, like, the the

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Speaker 2: better it is for me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, people don't like us, Jack, but you.

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Speaker 3: Also don't know how old you are, so I know, like,

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Speaker 3: could you could use some crowdsourced research put into that, right,

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Speaker 3: But that's right.

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Speaker 2: I was born on the Bayou and they don't they

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Speaker 2: don't take notes about when.

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Speaker 3: You were born there.

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Speaker 2: That's actually I'm actually who that credence song was true.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's great to be here. It's great to

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Speaker 3: see both of your faces. Thank you for thank you

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Speaker 3: for having me back.

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Speaker 2: Good to see you, Jack, attack Jack. It's the spookiest

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Speaker 2: month of the year. I think we can all accept that.

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Speaker 1: And on the day this drops, Happy Halloween.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Happy, happy Halloween, everybody, Happy Halloween.

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Speaker 3: Happy Halloween. It's Tuesday Halloween. I do apologize. I feel

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Speaker 3: like we all are getting a little screwed there, right yeah, yeah, yeah, Halloween.

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Speaker 2: We need to make it be like Thanksgiving, where it's

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Speaker 2: always on like a Friday.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but you bet a couple of days off before

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Speaker 3: and after.

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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, But but that's not the case. So it's

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Speaker 2: a Tuesday. I wish you all the best. But because

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Speaker 2: we wanted to try to help make Halloween extra good,

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Speaker 2: we have an episode about the man who put the

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Speaker 2: spook in Spooktober, which is what I call October Dracula. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's right, that's right, motherfucking I mean, the title of

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Speaker 2: the episode is just motherfucking Dracula comma bitches. But they

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Speaker 2: probably won't let us use the episode exclamation point, thank you.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we can put that on Spotify.

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Speaker 3: They'll get angry. Jack, What do you know about Dracula.

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Speaker 3: I am a big fan of his cereal.

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Speaker 2: I just count Shocula, which is I mean, honestly, Jack,

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Speaker 2: a little racist, all of the all of the dah

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Speaker 2: the same, right, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Am not that from it. Like, I know there are

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Speaker 3: historical roots to the character, but like in terms of

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Speaker 3: who it's based on or what they did to have

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Speaker 3: such a horrible story told about them, which which is

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Speaker 3: what it is I mean, it feels like it could

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Speaker 3: just be like from a middle school burn book, right,

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Speaker 3: like just like like I heard they go into people's

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Speaker 3: rooms and try and bite their neck and suck on

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Speaker 3: their wad. Yeah. So I don't know what I'm curious

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Speaker 3: to learn more. Yeah, well you're going to learn way

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Speaker 3: too much today. So good, that's what I come here for.

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Speaker 2: If you're you know, most people I think are broadly

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Speaker 2: aware that Dracula the Vampire from the Bram Stoker book

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Speaker 2: and then from I don't know, like a million other

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Speaker 2: books and pieces of media sense is based on a

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Speaker 2: real guy of Vlad Tepesh, better known as Vlad the Impaler,

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Speaker 2: and we have gotten over the years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Lad, that's right. I've always resented this guy

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Speaker 3: a little bit because he took a nickname that I

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Speaker 3: always wanted. Yeah, Jack the Impaler. Yeah, yeah, you remember

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Speaker 3: like how hard I tried to go. Yeah, going back

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Speaker 3: into cracked days.

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Speaker 2: For the record, Jack, You're always the first Impaler in

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Speaker 2: my heart, or at least in the top like three,

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Speaker 2: certainly before Dracula.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people say like, I don't pale that

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Speaker 3: many things, and I would point out, like, wait, have

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Speaker 3: you not seen me eat with a fork.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Or I mean you've cooked kebab a couple of

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Speaker 2: times out of stuff.

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Speaker 3: I don't generally cook it, but I will eat off

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Speaker 3: of a kabab, so that gives me rights to that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think I think he just got to

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Speaker 3: it first. Otherwise I would be known, you would have

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Speaker 3: been introducing me as Jack.

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Speaker 2: There's all there's a lot of unfair things like that,

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Speaker 2: like the the Wachowski's get credit for creating the matrix,

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Speaker 2: even though just seven or eight years later, I had.

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Speaker 3: An idea that was very similar to the matrix.

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Speaker 2: So like who gets the credit, you know, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's unfair, it's unfair. And also my version of the

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Speaker 2: matrix all Danny DeVito we get, we get those we

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Speaker 2: get those talentless hacks out of there, and we go

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Speaker 2: pure divito.

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Speaker 3: It's predvito. It's multiplicity matrix, matrixplicity, it's multiplicity the matrix.

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Speaker 3: And that's how you can kind of tell things are

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Speaker 3: off a little bit. Yeah, this is a world of alldvitos.

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Speaker 2: Because you're like, I'm used to some Danny DeVito's, but

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Speaker 2: not quite as many as we're getting.

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Speaker 3: So like, sure, we've heard of like you go into

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Speaker 3: work and it's mostly de Vito's but not pure Divito,

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Speaker 3: and that's how things are a little bit, yeah, a

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Speaker 3: little bit twisted at the robots have taken so Dracula,

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Speaker 3: So Dracula. Sorry, this becomes a dragon who could be

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Speaker 3: ably played by Danny DeVito is based on a real guy.

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Speaker 3: Shock he should be Vlad the Impaler, And a weird

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Speaker 3: number of fans over the years have been like, you

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Speaker 3: should do with Lad the Impaler episode and there are

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Speaker 3: a lot of lurid stories about what he did. But

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Speaker 3: the reason why we haven't covered him before and we're

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Speaker 3: not really going to do an episode focused entirely on

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Speaker 3: Lad the Impaler is that he's the kind of historical

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Speaker 3: bastard where like you don't actually know if any of

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Speaker 3: that's true or if most of that is true. Like

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Speaker 3: every if I was just doing a Lad the Impaler episode,

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Speaker 3: every other sentence would be me being like reading a

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Speaker 3: paragraph where somebody from like the sixteen hundreds is writing

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Speaker 3: about an atrocity he was supposed to have committed a

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Speaker 3: couple of hundred years earlier, and then me going, but

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Speaker 3: also maybe that's not true, because it's it's it's more

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Speaker 3: based on these like other myths or whatever that came

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Speaker 3: about in a previous age or you know, here's all

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Speaker 3: these reasons why that might not be the that's the

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Speaker 3: case flying around, Yeah, for some reason. So there's reasons

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Speaker 3: to Yeah, I always got the sense, and I think

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Speaker 3: this is why I like didn't dig into it that much.

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Speaker 3: Is I always got you know how Einstein gets credit

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Speaker 3: for every smart thing, very smart sounding thing that anyone's

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Speaker 3: ever said. Now they're like, well, you know what Einstein said,

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Speaker 3: the definition of is doing the same thing over and over.

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Speaker 3: And it's like, first of all, that's not insanity and

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Speaker 3: that's not a smart thing. But second ball, Einstein like

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Speaker 3: never said any of that. But it's like I always

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Speaker 3: got the sense of Vlad the Impaler and slash Dracula

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Speaker 3: just like got his brand was really strong, Like we

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Speaker 3: needed somebody to be spooky, and so we just gave

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Speaker 3: him all the dark shit. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: History, Yeah, that is probably a lot of what happened.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those like he was a ruler in

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Speaker 2: the fourteen hundreds, which was a pretty brutal time, especially

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Speaker 2: in Eastern ye Eastern Europe doesn't have a lot of

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Speaker 2: periods of time where things weren't fairly brutal like it is,

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Speaker 2: and he's but I don't know on his own, I

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Speaker 2: don't know that I would qualify him as a bastard because, like,

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Speaker 2: for this show, just kind of to make things narratively

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Speaker 2: make sense, I have adopted sort of a definition where

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Speaker 2: it doesn't just being a bastard doesn't just mean you're

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Speaker 2: a bad person. It means you actively like made the

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Speaker 2: world worse and stood out in your time as a

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Speaker 2: shitty person. Like I wouldn't do a Behind the Bastards

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Speaker 2: on a random plantation owner in the South, right, not

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Speaker 2: because that's not a bad thing to do, because it's

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Speaker 2: but because like what is there to say, right, Like

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Speaker 2: he was one of a bunch of people who were

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Speaker 2: part of this really awful system. I would do an

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Speaker 2: episode on Robert E. Lee, right, because the things that

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Speaker 2: he was trying to do not only like extended the

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Speaker 2: Civil War and made this conflict bloodier, but he was

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Speaker 2: actively attempting to set this system up in a way

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Speaker 2: that would allow it to like persevere longer into the future.

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Speaker 2: So he was somebody who was actively not just part

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Speaker 2: of a bad system, but like making things worse in

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Speaker 2: his existence right, whereas in Vladi Impaler, I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if that really qualifies. He's a ruler in Wallachia during

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Speaker 2: which is you know, part of Romania now during this

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Speaker 2: really brutal period. He definitely, like all rulers in that,

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Speaker 2: does some horrible shit. But most of the stuff about

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Speaker 2: his like real horrible crimes against humanity. Some of it

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Speaker 2: may be true, but a lot of it is the

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Speaker 2: result of propaganda for a bunch of Catholic monks who

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Speaker 2: were like really pissed at him because he had killed

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Speaker 2: a bunch of the Germans in his country. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know, you know, mixed bag as to whether or

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Speaker 2: not like it's fair or just kind of of like

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Speaker 2: a part of a political dispute basically that has echoed

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Speaker 2: down And like anybody who is a ruler in Europe

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Speaker 2: in this period's going to do some massacres. But if

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Speaker 2: like you're doing the same kind of horrible shit as

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Speaker 2: everybody else in the area, I don't know that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to like want to cover you in behind the bastards.

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Speaker 2: So what makes Tepees interesting is the degree to which

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Speaker 2: is how he becomes Dracula, right, And that is a

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Speaker 2: story that involves a lot of other people's bastardry. It

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Speaker 2: involves a really fascinating look into human folklore and the

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Speaker 2: kind of stories that we tell about our monsters, and

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Speaker 2: I think ultimately it has a lot to say about

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Speaker 2: like why we are the way we are. So that's

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Speaker 2: kind of the story we're going to be talking about today,

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Speaker 2: how Vlad became Dracula. But that is going to start

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Speaker 2: with a little bit of a bio on Vlad v Impaler.

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Speaker 2: So are you ready to learn about v the MP V.

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Speaker 3: The MP I am a little VMP action.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right. So Vlad was born in

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Speaker 2: fourteen thirty one. Maybe he may have been born as

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Speaker 2: early as fourteen twenty eight. We're not gonna know, because nobody,

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Speaker 2: really nobody was like putting down birth certificates. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: guess people didn't always know what year it was. Like,

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Speaker 2: if you traveled like seven miles by foot, you probably

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Speaker 2: would go to a place like, no, it's not fourteen

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Speaker 2: twenty eight, it's fourteen twenty nine.

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Speaker 3: Whatever.

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Speaker 2: I like to keep it mysterious, like you do with

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Speaker 2: you exactly exactly. Lad also is trying to avoid getting

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Speaker 2: doxed so he was probably born in Transylvania. That part

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Speaker 2: of the books is likely accurate. The town he was

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Speaker 2: born in is I'm going to do my best here, Sigiswara,

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Speaker 2: which was then part of the Kingdom of Hungary. Hungary

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Speaker 2: and Romany, I mean, Romani is not a thing at

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Speaker 2: this moment as like an independent nation. But they're going

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Speaker 2: to wind up spending quite a bit of time having

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Speaker 2: a little kerfuffle over this specific area that he's born in.

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Speaker 2: Eastern Europe in his time was a place of chaos

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Speaker 2: and violence, one in which the medieval traditions of serfdom

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Speaker 2: and feudalism they were starting to fade in the west.

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Speaker 2: Right in western Europe in the fourteen hundreds, serfdom and

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Speaker 2: kind of a lot of these feudal attitudes are giving

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Speaker 2: way to what's going to result in like a more

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Speaker 2: modern concept of like states in the relationship between people

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Speaker 2: and rulers that's starting to happen in the West and

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Speaker 2: the East. All of that shit is really kind of

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Speaker 2: coming into its height, right because it's, you know, just

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Speaker 2: a different part of the world. The chief powers in

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Speaker 2: Vlad's time in the area where he grows up are Hungary,

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Speaker 2: that's like the big Christian Kingdom, which was a closely

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Speaker 2: related foreign kingdom to Wallachia where his dad is going

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Speaker 2: to be ruling in the not too distant future.

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Speaker 3: And then the other big power, Yeah, I've heard of Hungary,

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Speaker 3: not Wallachia. Well, so everybody gets an idea of how

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Speaker 3: dumb I am. Yeah on this whole thing.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend in high school, as a Romanian national,

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Speaker 2: who would always insist that he was Wallachia, not just

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Speaker 2: not Romania. Like Wilaki is like the center of what

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Speaker 2: becomes the state of Romania. And so the other big

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Speaker 2: power in the You've got Hungary on one side, and

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Speaker 2: like the Holy Roman Empire, which is like, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of governing the major Christian states in that region.

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Speaker 2: And then the other big power is the Ottoman Empire.

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Speaker 2: And the Ottomans have not taken Constantinople yet, but they're

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Speaker 2: they're working on it, right, They're in the process of

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Speaker 2: making Constantinople into Istanbul. You can refer to that. They

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Speaker 2: might be Giant Song if you want a little bit

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Speaker 2: more information on that. It's pretty pretailed history exactly too many. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so Constantinople has not gotten the works yet, but the

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Speaker 2: Turks are in the process, so they are making constant

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Speaker 2: incursions into this chunk of Eastern Europe. They control some

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Speaker 2: of the surrounding territories. And like when you read like

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Speaker 2: weirdo right wing dudes with like Twitter accounts that are

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Speaker 2: named I don't know, like cultural critic or whatever, they

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Speaker 2: tend to like. They always like to frame this as

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Speaker 2: this bone deep clash of religions and cultures that are

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Speaker 2: just completely different and can never live together. That's not

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Speaker 2: what anyone living through it sees it as.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: If you are actually living in the area at this point,

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Speaker 2: your life is a lot more muddled. Vlad the Impaler's father,

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Speaker 2: who is Vlad the Second, who's going to wind up

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Speaker 2: ruling Volakia, he spends most of his life allied to

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Speaker 2: the Ottomans, right like, he is an Ottoman vassal, and

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Speaker 2: he is also he's fighting when he goes to war,

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Speaker 2: he's often fighting on behalf of Sultan Morad the second,

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Speaker 2: And a lot of people go back He's going to

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Speaker 2: go back and forth. His son's going to go back

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Speaker 2: and forth. A lot of people in this border area

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Speaker 2: are like, well, right now, it looks like the Ottomans

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Speaker 2: are a better bet, so I'm an automan vessel. And

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Speaker 2: then like, oh, now the holy Roman Emperor seems like

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Speaker 2: he's got you know, some shit on his he's got

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Speaker 2: some weight behind him, so I'm going to go over there.

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Speaker 2: That's just how people are right like it. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: make any sense to be super rigorous about it, because

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Speaker 2: that'll just get you killed.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: So it is from the Emperor Sigismund that the family

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Speaker 2: gets their imposing title Dracule. Dracuel is not like a

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Speaker 2: last name. It is a title that they are given.

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Speaker 2: And obviously that's the root of the word Dracula. If

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Speaker 2: you've seen that new movie The Last Voyage of the Demeter,

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Speaker 2: which is about one chapter in the bram Stoker Dracula

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Speaker 2: book where Dracula travels over to this little coastal English

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Speaker 2: town on a boat. Doesn't go well for the people

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Speaker 2: on the boat. The crate that he's loaded under the

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Speaker 2: ship in has a dragon on it. That's because the

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Speaker 2: word dracul means dragon, although in Romanian it can also

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Speaker 2: mean devil. Both are It's kind of like it means

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Speaker 2: both and yeah, the reason why he gets that title

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Speaker 2: is that Sigismund is trying to get Vlad the Second,

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Speaker 2: Glad the Impaler's dad, and a couple of these other

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Speaker 2: kings and stuff who are sort of on the fence.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them kind of go back and forth

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Speaker 2: between him and the Ottomans. He wants to get them

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Speaker 2: locked in on his side, right because he's trying to

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Speaker 2: build up a solid He's trying to like make sure

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Speaker 2: his power base stays solid. And so he creates this

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Speaker 2: nightly order called like the Order of the Dragon, and

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Speaker 2: Vlad the Second is one of the guys he brings

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Speaker 2: into this. Most kind of layman's histories of Vlad the

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Speaker 2: Second and of Lad the Impaler will describe the Order

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Speaker 2: of the Dragon this way. And I'm going to quote

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Speaker 2: from an article by the Warfare History Network quote a

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Speaker 2: group of European leaders who were sworn to defend the

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Speaker 2: Holy Roman Empire against infidels. Now again, that kind of

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Speaker 2: leans into a lot of popular conceptions about how this

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Speaker 2: period of time works. Some of the sources I've read

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Speaker 2: kind of make it look again a lot more muddled.

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Speaker 2: There's a pretty interesting book on Vlad the Impaler by M. J. Trow,

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Speaker 2: who is a crime novelist. And we'll talk about our

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Speaker 2: historian that we have as a source here in a second,

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Speaker 2: but he describes the order and he has some pretty

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Speaker 2: good sources to back this up in more mafioso terms,

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Speaker 2: So not this alliance of Christians against the infidels, but

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Speaker 2: more of like a system of mutual aid designed by

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Speaker 2: Sigismund to tie regional rulers to him and to each

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Speaker 2: other to reinforce his own power. More of like a

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Speaker 2: secret society right where it's like, get this impressive and

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Speaker 2: this title will kind of bind them to me and

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Speaker 2: to each other and will promise to like help each

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Speaker 2: other out. I'm trying to make this kind of like

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Speaker 2: intimate cultural bond to set us all together, but more

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Speaker 2: because I want them. I want them to feel like

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Speaker 2: they have a sense of like owing me something.

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Speaker 3: Right, and they do because that nickname is awesome name.

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Speaker 2: If I get to call myself the fucking Dragon, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be like if Kentucky were

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Speaker 2: to award me the rank of colonel. You know, if

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Speaker 2: I could be at Kentucky colonel, I would I would

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Speaker 2: be much more pro Kentucky than I currently yea.

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Speaker 3: And you would have. Yeah, the branding is just incredible

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Speaker 3: and great that they had a sense of it at

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Speaker 3: the time. I love that. It was just like, well,

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Speaker 3: if you want to like have this cool nickname, yeah,

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Speaker 3: then you gotta be cool with Sigis Mandy. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's like a you know, a five year old creating

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Speaker 3: a club that's like the super Cool Ninjas. Yeah that

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Speaker 3: like you get to call yourself a super cool Ninja

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Speaker 3: if you join up, Like hell yeah, that's worked from

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Speaker 3: the beginning of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because like I think every man, I think I

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Speaker 2: speak for literally the entire male population when I'm like,

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Speaker 2: we all want to be nicknamed the Dragon.

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Speaker 3: The Dragon. But if kind of our only goal, yeah,

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Speaker 3: like if you were to introduce yourself as the Dragon,

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Speaker 3: people would be like you give yourself that nickname? Yeah right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: But if you're like, no, man, somebody else said I'm

363
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Speaker 2: the Dragon and like they're the Holy Roman Emperor, then

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Speaker 2: you're in. Then you're in, you know, like in like Flynn,

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Speaker 2: I guess that's that's really the goal here, and it's

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it's debatably successful, but that's where they

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Speaker 2: get the nickname from. Now we have basically no real

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Speaker 2: information on the kind of childhood that Lad would have

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Speaker 2: experienced our lad, not Lad the second his dad. There

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Speaker 2: are some things we can infer his family was extremely wealthy.

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Speaker 2: These guys are nobility, right, They're they're bowyers, which is

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Speaker 2: like what you call nobles in in in this region.

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Speaker 2: They have numerous servants and body guards. And for most

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Speaker 2: of Ladd's early childhood he's effectively like his dad is

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Speaker 2: the governor of Transylvania for Hungary, watching for a Turkish incursion.

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Speaker 2: We don't know who his mother was. It's possible she

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Speaker 2: was like basically a prostitute. This is not like normal

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00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 2: in like Western Europe and what not. That would make

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Speaker 2: him like a bastard, right, like in a literal.

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Speaker 3: Sense federal master.

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Speaker 2: That's not the case in this part of the world, right,

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Speaker 2: Wallachian in Transylvanian culture, certainly in this period is not

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Speaker 2: very pro woman and so and to the extent that,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter who your mother is.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: What determines whether or not you are a legitimate and

387
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Speaker 2: that's in the parlance of the time, a legitimate son,

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Speaker 2: right in order to like inherit and stuff, is just

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Speaker 2: who your dad is. Right, It doesn't actually matter who

390
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 2: your biological mother is. So Vlad is his dad's actually

391
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 2: is an illegitimate son, So it's not. One of the

392
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,479
Speaker 2: things about this is that there's this quasi aristocratic democracy thing,

393
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Speaker 2: where like winding up in charge is the result of

394
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Speaker 2: a bunch of these other boyers supporting you having a job.

395
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Speaker 2: So the fact that Vlad the Second is like an

396
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Speaker 2: illegitimate son probably doesn't really hurt him because he's able

397
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Speaker 2: to get a lot of support to put him in power.

398
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Speaker 2: But Glad the Impaler is his dad's like legit son,

399
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Speaker 2: and he's the second son of the family under his

400
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,640
Speaker 2: elder brother Mercea. His youngest brother, Radu is also known

401
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 2: as the handsome and m J. Trout writes, quote, yeah,

402
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Speaker 2: he's hot as hell.

403
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Speaker 3: MJ.

404
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: Trow writes about his about all of their upbringing. Actually,

405
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Speaker 2: he would have had a steward to organize the servants,

406
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 2: order the food and the wine, and regulate the day.

407
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 2: Numerous skivvies would be employed to cook, clean and sew.

408
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 2: The male children would have learned to give orders and

409
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Speaker 2: adopt the airs and grace is expected of men that

410
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Speaker 2: one day rule an entire country, however small by modern standards.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the one picture of Vlad the impaler that I've

412
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Speaker 3: always seen. The main thing that I take away from

413
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 3: it is that he looks like a rich guy from

414
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Speaker 3: another era. Yeah, he's for sure bobbles and like just

415
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 3: various fancy news. His hair is like looks like it

416
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 3: has been combed by someone who is not him for

417
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 3: like hours a day. Oh yeah, the thing he's wearing

418
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 3: makes him look like a Christmas tree ornament. Yeah, that's

419
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Speaker 3: kind of his overall.

420
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Speaker 1: His mustache. What do you think of the mustache mustache?

421
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 3: I always assume that's just from another era. Yeah, And

422
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 3: it also looks like he might have taken one of

423
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 3: his locks and just like put it across his upper lip.

424
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Speaker 1: So there's a serious curl going on on.

425
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Speaker 2: His I'm imagining there's like a backstory to that mustache.

426
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 2: Like if you guys have watched Brea Hercule Perro movies

427
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 2: like the second the second one opens with like the

428
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 2: the gritty backstory of a mustache. It's amazing anyway, That's

429
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: what I imagine. So in his book, M. J. Trow

430
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Speaker 2: cites two historians, Fluorescue and McNally, who write this about

431
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Speaker 2: Flats upbringing. There were the usual distinctions that followed the

432
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 2: feast days, puppets, ambulant artists, acrobats, mini singers, and in

433
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 2: summer there were ball games, running and jumping contests, and

434
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 2: games on quadrilateral swings made of red cloth and fashioned

435
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 2: in the form of a pyramid. In the winter, they

436
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 2: hunted eagles with sling shots the Sigasuarrez slopes on primitive

437
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: double runner sleds trapped hairs. That is pretty cool. Eagles

438
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 2: with sling shots.

439
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 3: Eagles with slingshots is red.

440
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 2: The degree of deadly skills you had to have even

441
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 2: to be like a pampered rich kid in this era

442
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 2: is amazing.

443
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 3: Like you're just fucking bull saying an eagle with your

444
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 3: so funny shooting eagles out of the fucking clear blue sky. Yeah,

445
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 3: sling fucking.

446
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: Rock and a piece of elastic. Yeah, amazing.

447
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: And they didn't have elastic, so it was just like

448
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: a slid like you had to swing it around and

449
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 3: like it David's style, right, Yeah, probably.

450
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 2: I think maybe they had more modern slingshots than I

451
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm not a slingshot expert. In fourteen thirty six,

452
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 2: the ruler of Wallachia, Vlad the Second's brother, died of

453
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 2: natural causes. Now he had spent. Vlad's brother, had Laed.

454
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: The second's brother had been the kind of guy whose

455
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: primary focus was not pissing anyone off too much. So

456
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 2: he had tried to be friendly with the Hungarians because

457
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: they're right next door. But he'd also paid tribute to

458
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 2: the Sultan and been in a military alliance with them.

459
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: And this is the kind of thing where like nobody

460
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 2: trusts each other. So when you're in a military alliance

461
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 2: with a guy like the Sultan, you send them a

462
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: bunch of your family members, right, your family, some other nobles,

463
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: and you send him to Istanbul. And that's like your

464
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: guarantee of good behavior. If you don't keep up with

465
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: the treaty, they'll kill your family, you know, Like that's

466
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: the way it goes here, everyone, Robert here, I fucked

467
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: this up. I misspoke. Obviously, the Ottomans had not captured

468
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: is Stanbul at this point, which we talk about later

469
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 2: when they do. Believe the capital of the Ottoman Empire

470
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: at this phase was Adirney edr Ine. That's how it's anglicized.

471
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: But if you keep up with the treaty, the family

472
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: is a pretty good life, right, Like they're not locked

473
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: in a cell or whatever in court. They generally attend

474
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: like schools and whatnot in the area. Like it can

475
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: be a pretty decent experience depending on where you are.

476
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 3: This puts it in a whole new perspective that you

477
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: guys made me send my kids to yeah, stay with

478
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 3: Sophie while we recorded this. That is that is the

479
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 3: case you said, case go sideways? Yeah, okay, yeah, in

480
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 3: case you to support another group of advertisers.

481
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: That's right.

482
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: So Vlad the second his brother dies and he becomes

483
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,719
Speaker 2: the ruler of Wallachia next, and he does this with

484
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: the backing of Sigismund. Right, Sigismund was not happy with

485
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: Lad the Second's brother. He's like, this guy is in

486
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: an alliance with the Sultan. I'm not a big fan

487
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: of the Sultan. I want to put a guy on

488
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: the Wallachian throne who's like my dude, right, and who I.

489
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: Holy Roman Empire?

490
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, he's the holy and the king of Hungary. Right,

491
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: got you know you can. He's a triple threat, at

492
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 2: least a double threat, probably triple. I assume there's another

493
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: threat to him.

494
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 3: Holy Roman Empire or or the Dragon. They're the ones

495
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 3: who came up with that idea. To let them call

496
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 3: them those dragons. Okay, yeah, yeah.

497
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 2: So the family, the Dragon family moves to the capital

498
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: of Wallachia, tiergo Viste, and into a big fancy castle.

499
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 2: Now Glad, being paler age six or seven, starts his

500
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: night training at this point, which is like every little

501
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: boys dream. I think we all wish we could have

502
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: trained this a night when we were six or seven.

503
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: Oh ak, yeah, okay, yeah, so cool.

504
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: But I thought like they were like, okay, you're now

505
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 3: ready to do battle at night like a ninja, Like

506
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 3: that is what he's going to wind up doing under

507
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: cover of darkness. This is this is when we do

508
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 3: our nighttime seals training.

509
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: It is you have to start early, not just for

510
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: a kid. But oftentimes I'm not one hundred percent sure

511
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: if this is the way, but I think it is

512
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: the way that they do in Willachia. But like even

513
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: going back to the ancient Greece, if you're the kind

514
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: of dude who, because of your position in society, you're

515
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: going to be expected to fight on horseback. You are

516
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: often raised like with your horse, because it takes sometimes

517
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 2: ten fifteen years to like really train a military horse

518
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: to be able to because like horses don't want to

519
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: fight right like, they don't. They don't want to charge

520
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: a bunch of angry armed men. That's scary for a horse,

521
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: so you have to it. Often, like these societies, like

522
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 2: this is the case with the Macedonians back in the

523
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: time of Alexander, they spend a lot of their childhoods,

524
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: like both kind of growing up and training with their

525
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: horses so that they can fight together, because it takes

526
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: that long to make a good war horse.

527
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a constant struggle with me and my horse.

528
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: My horse is more into the arts, yeah, and dressage. Yeah,

529
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 3: and yeah hates when I just try and ride it

530
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: into a fist fight.

531
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: No, you have tried to invade Persia several times and

532
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: your horse just won't see it.

533
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: It's not going well. It's not going well. Yeah, very

534
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 3: bad at it.

535
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: This period in his life where he's kind of living

536
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: in tigiv Ste, he's training on being a knight. It

537
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: ends pretty quickly for little baby Blaid the Impaler, because

538
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: in fourteen thirty seven, when he's some between seven and

539
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: nine years old, probably the Emperor Sigismund dies and his

540
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: plans to create this grand anti Ottoman alliance kind of

541
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: crumble the whole order of the Dragon thing. They keep

542
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: the title, They're always going to use that title. That's

543
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: fucking do. It's not going anywhere, you know, it doesn't

544
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: really mean much in the now that Sigismund's died, and

545
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 2: there's this like kind of right as he dies, there's

546
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: a peasant uprising in Wallachia that's pretty brutal to put down,

547
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: weakens them militarily, and then there's a wave of plagues,

548
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 2: probably spread by rats, that hits right at the same

549
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: time and kills just a fuck load of people. So,

550
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: you know, get rid of rats people. It just makes sense. Now,

551
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: Glad the Second, Glad the Impaler's dad has no choice

552
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: but to make the same decision that his brother had

553
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: made and bin the knee to the sultan right now. Thankfully,

554
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: Marad the Second is a pretty cool dude as sultans go.

555
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: He's famous for being tolerant, particularly of like heretical religious

556
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: sects in his own country. Right there's all these like

557
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 2: little weird religious groups that have some take on you know,

558
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: the corona or whatever. That's like kind of very much

559
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: not in the mainstream, and like a lot of other

560
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: sultans probably would have punished them, but Morad is just

561
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 2: kind of like interested in that sort of stuff, so

562
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: he he'll give them money, He'll like support them and

563
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, I just am kind of curious what

564
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: you're gonna I just want to let you cook, you know,

565
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: like tell me some shit. You know, there's not TV

566
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: back then, so maybe like encouraging heretical religious sects is

567
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: kind of like funding Netflix.

568
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: Y what these crazy fuckers. He's also known as being

569
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: super nice to his slaves, which is again kind of

570
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: the like are you a good person? It doesn't mean

571
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 3: like not having slaves. It means are nice to them, right,

572
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: nice to it.

573
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, But that said, as that probably suggests, good dude

574
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: is a relative term when we are talking about medieval rulers,

575
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: and as relatively chill as Marat is, he's still the

576
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: kind of dude who punishes his enemies by impaling them

577
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,239
Speaker 2: in mass because that's just kind of how the Ottomans be, right,

578
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: everybody's got their own ways of like killing your enemies.

579
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: The Ottomans, one of the things they like to do

580
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: is impale. That's not They're not the only people doing impaling, right,

581
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: Impaling's popular. Everybody We always like a good impaling. Oh yeah,

582
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: but yeah, lots of different ugly none of the ways

583
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: people kill each other in the Middle Ages are nice.

584
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, they like to really make a show of it,

585
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: make a meal. Yeah. Yeah. Of the thing, So when

586
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: you say impale, is that just like run through with

587
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: a sword or.

588
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: And sharp stick going going through you in a way

589
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: that's unpleasant.

590
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: And then gravity doing some work? Is that?

591
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: I think gravity often I mean the same way that

592
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: like that's what kills you to an extent when you

593
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: get like crucified, right, yes, yeah, that whole process.

594
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: So do they impale you and then just like let

595
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: you slide down a like do they put it upright?

596
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 3: Is that what when they're when we're saying someone's an

597
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: impaler because I am again still trying to get the

598
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: nickname to go, and I'm trying to see like what

599
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: type of impaling I could do to like get this

600
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: ship to finally catch on, Like is it a big

601
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 3: wooden stick? Sharp wood stick? And then you put it

602
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: upright and they're just kind of like hanging there in

603
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: the air. Yeah, Like yeah, Jason X, the.

604
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: You're kind of are letting them slide down it. It's

605
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: often a punishment for like crimes against the state, right

606
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: it is. It is a particularly nasty one, so people

607
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: who like it threatens sort of the stability of the

608
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: government often do it. There's a few different ways. It's

609
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: one of those things where sometimes people are dead when

610
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: they do this and you're just kind of doing it

611
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: as a show of force. Sometimes it's a very quick death,

612
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: right like you're And there's a couple of different ways.

613
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: There's like through the abdomen or whatnot, like directly to

614
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: the heart. There's like the reverse way. There's like putting

615
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: it basically going in through the outdoor, so to speak.

616
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure you can kind of guess what I'm saying.

617
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: There through the butt hole for the butt yeah, yeah, yeah,

618
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 3: And there's a but you know, it can it can

619
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: be the kind of thing where like you die pretty quickly,

620
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: or it can be the kind of thing where.

621
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: It's like slow and it takes days. That sort of

622
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: depends on the region and what you did.

623
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: Okay, so that will that sort of thing will get

624
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: people's attention. Yeah, I can understand where somebody who does

625
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 3: that a lot would get a nickname.

626
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: It'll get your attention. But back to what we were

627
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: saying about like where this lands within the morality of

628
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: the time. Pretty common. A lot of states do impaling, right. Basically,

629
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 2: any ruler has the potential to impale a dude if

630
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: they commit the right crime in this, especially in Eastern

631
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: Europe and in kind of like Middle East North Africa,

632
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: a lot of this, a lot of impaling going on, right,

633
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: and that they're not the only ones. Western Europe has

634
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: it's impaling traditions too, don't get me wrong, And this

635
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: has gone on. I think the Assyrians are some of

636
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: the first people we know we're doing in paling. So

637
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: this has always been a popular way to get rid

638
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: of people you don't like. So Marad the Second, pretty

639
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: nice guy, also an impaler. Vlad the Second signs a

640
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 2: treaty with because he's like, well, Sigismund's down now he's

641
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,479
Speaker 2: still going by Vlad Dracul. Don't get me wrong here, Okay,

642
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: smart man understands branding. Yeah, he gets branding. So in

643
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: fourteen thirty eight, the year after Sigismund dies, the Sultan

644
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: goes to war with Transylvania with the Hungarians right, and

645
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: Vlad the Second has to join on his side and

646
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: winds up fighting against the people he had just been governing.

647
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: Now he's willing to do this because he doesn't really

648
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: have any other option, but his heart is not in it.

649
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: And within a couple of years he's like publicly, you know,

650
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: a vassal of the Ottomans, but he's also covertly supporting

651
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: an anti Ottoman alliance led by John Hunyati, who's the

652
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: Transylvanian governor for the Hungarians. There's this series of battles.

653
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: Hanyati does pretty well against the Ottomans, they win a

654
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: few of them, and this causes problems for the Dracule

655
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: family because like now they've picked the wrong side of

656
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: this conflict, right, they bet on the Ottomans. The Ottomans

657
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: aren't doing great so far. And I'm going to quote

658
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: now from a biography of life Lad Tepees by Kurt Trepto,

659
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: who is an American historian from Miami Beach, Florida.

660
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: Quote.

661
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: After Hanyati defeated Ottoman forces in Transylvania in March fourteen

662
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: forty two, vlad Dracule was called to Adrianople to demonstrate

663
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: his loyalty to his suzerain, leaving his eldest son Mercea

664
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: as governor in Wallachia. As a result of what he

665
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: considered to be Dracul's treachery, the Sultan imprisoned the prince

666
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: at Gallipoli and ordered an attack on Wilakia. This new

667
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: Ottoman assault was again repulsed by Henyati, who used the

668
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: occasion to install his protege Besab the Second on the throne.

669
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: Realizing the danger posed to the Empire if Hanyati controlled Volakia,

670
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: the Sultan decided to release Vlat Dracul at the end

671
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: of fourteen forty two, but required him to leave his

672
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: two youngest sons as hostages. So there's this kind of

673
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: you see how messy this is, right, Yeah, Sultan gets

674
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: angry that he's been supporting the Hungarians, so he arrests

675
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: Vlad the second. Vlad the second son is in charge

676
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: in Wallachia for a while, but then the Hungarians push

677
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: him out of power and stick a new guy on

678
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: the throne. And the Sultan's like, well, I guess this

679
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: family there's still my best bet, right, So I'm just

680
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 2: going to take his kids as hostages and hope that

681
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: that works to keep him loyal, right.

682
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think that inspires a lot of loyalty

683
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: and people generally like it when you do that.

684
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big, big big fans. So vladd and

685
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: his sexy brother Radu are going to be the hostages here.

686
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: Now. Is this how last names happened back then? Because

687
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 3: it feels like we're going from their old last name

688
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 3: to like the Dracule family. Was it just a thing

689
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 3: where people were like, actually, this is cooler. Somebody called

690
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 3: me this.

691
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: I don't think that they would have been called the

692
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: Dracule family. It's more that because the dad has this title,

693
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: when he dies, the one who inherits it is going

694
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 2: to be Dracula, which is like son of the dragon. Okay,

695
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: basically right, that's that's the way I was just it's

696
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 2: fun to use this name a lot because it's pretty

697
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: fucking cool. So I just said Vladin his sexy brother

698
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: Radu would be those hostages. I probably shouldn't have said

699
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: that about Radhu because I have to know something uncomfortable

700
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 2: here about our historian source Kurt Trepto. So again, we've

701
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: got the two books I read. One is by this

702
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 2: guy who is you know, it's a pretty good pop

703
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: history book, but it's not perfect. And the other is

704
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: this book by Kurt, who is definitely a historian. He

705
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: is a fulbright scholar and an expert on Romanian history.

706
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: He is somebody who certainly has the academic credentials to

707
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: back up his book. Unfortunately, a scholar is not the

708
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: only thing that he is, because as I was writing

709
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: this episode, I came upon a two thousand and seven

710
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 2: article by the History News Network that notes about Kurt

711
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: Trepto quote he was sentenced to the maximum of seven

712
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 2: years in December two thousand and two for offenses involving

713
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: two girls aged ten and thirteen, who we invited to

714
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: his home in Lasi. A Romanian woman convicted of being

715
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: his accomplice is still in prison. Trepto, who looked visibly

716
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: emaciated as he left the prison, declined to comment. The

717
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 2: historian was released early because he wrote a book entitled

718
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: The Life and Times of Vlad Dracul while he was

719
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: in prison. His lawyer, Livu Broun said the book September

720
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: two thousand and three until October two thousand and six

721
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: was counted as community service, Bron told reporters. Bron told

722
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: the court during his trial that his client had sex

723
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 2: only with the thirteen year old girl and that he

724
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 2: did not know she was a minor.

725
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 3: So there's a lot there. Oh my god, that is

726
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 3: uh uh something else. Yeah, I didn't primary source here. Yeah,

727
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 3: it's he is a historian. He's a fulbright scholar. He

728
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 3: also wrote his Dracula book as fucking community service for

729
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: being a pedophile. I'll se a pedophile. Yeah, you know,

730
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: I don't know what else to say about that. I

731
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: figured I should live much to say.

732
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 2: You know, Trepto's book is okay. Treu is a better writer, right,

733
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: but he's not a historian. And I did find a

734
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: couple of minor errors in there, so I wanted to

735
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 2: like read both of them. And then as I was

736
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: writing the script, I learned that unfat pleasant reality. The

737
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: lesson here should be obvious. Never check your word right.

738
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: There you go, there you go.

739
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 3: Then you won't learn stuff like this. Yeah, absolutely so.

740
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 2: In the time when Vlad the second had been out

741
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 2: in Automan captivity, he had lost control of Wallachia to

742
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: one of his many noble rivals. He took it back

743
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: in fourteen forty three, and our friend the pedophile historian

744
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: notes that this is probably because he was a pretty

745
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 2: popular ruler. From what we can tell captivity was not

746
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: like bad for the dracul brothers, right, the Draculas, the Draculai,

747
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: the Dracules La. Anyway, they learned how to fight in

748
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: the Ottoman style. Now, Solad future of Lad the Impaler

749
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: has now learned how to fight as a European night

750
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: and how to fight as an Ottoman. Right, so he

751
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 2: gets a whole new set of weapons. He's having fun

752
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: different kind of like classes on that sort of stuff.

753
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: There's some evidence that they converted to Islam for a

754
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: period of time. This is unclear. Vlad the Impaler is

755
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: gonna like mix and match faiths a bunch. He's a

756
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: little bit like that one character from The Mummy who's

757
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: just got like all the religion symbols. Right, He's going

758
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: to be Orthodox, he's going to be Catholic for a while,

759
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: he's going to be probably may have been Muslim for

760
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 2: a while.

761
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 3: So you know, bumper sticker, you know. Yeah, he's a

762
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 3: very coexist kind of guy, Lad the Impaler. Yeah, so

763
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 3: things go less well. He's you know, while Lad the

764
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 3: Impaler and and Radu are are hanging out with a sultan,

765
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 3: things are not going great for his father, Lad the

766
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 3: Second Hunyati, the Hungarian leader is not a forgiving kind

767
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 3: of dude. And once it becomes clear that yet again,

768
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: the mister Dracule has backed the Ottomans, Transylvania goes to

769
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 3: war with Wolakia of Lad the Second loses this war,

770
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: he gets captured and is executed alongside his eldest son,

771
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: who had ruled in his stead while he was out fighting. No, no,

772
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: that's Marseilla. I don't think he's particularly handsome. He gets

773
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: so while his dad is losing this ward to Transylvania,

774
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: like a bunch of these boyers in in Tigovitay, like

775
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 3: see where the wind is blowing. And so they capture

776
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 3: his son Mercea and they they kill him by burying

777
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: him alive, and they are there's some suggestion among scholars

778
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 3: that maybe this is part of how that myth about

779
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: like Dracula being being buried alive. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Maybe

780
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: that's part of it, right. I feel like, if you're

781
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 3: executing the eldest son and the next eldest is Vlad

782
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 3: the Impaler, I guess he probably doesn't have that nickname.

783
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 3: He doesn't have that. Yeah, he's not impaling yet if

784
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 3: he's given off even like the slightest of impaling vibes.

785
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's like trained as both like

786
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 3: in Eastern and Western fighting, and is like fighting as

787
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: a knight with one hand. He is like Jean Clade

788
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 3: van Dam in an early nineties movie, right, exact, just

789
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 3: like kind of but I don't know.

790
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: I say this a lot, listeners. If you are executing

791
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: a family for their loyalties to the Sultan.

792
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 3: Says all the time, Yeah, keep an eye out. Does

793
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 3: one of them look like they might be an empale?

794
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: Maybe don't do that execution, you know, keep him second

795
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: in line, is all I'm saying. So, uh, it's unclear

796
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 3: if Laude and Radu are free or still with the Sultan.

797
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: They probably are still with the Sultan when their dad

798
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 3: and brother get killed. But whatever the case, Vlad winds

799
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: up going back to Murad and is like, Hey, they

800
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: killed my family. I need to go.

801
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 2: Do you know a pretty dope vengeance quest thing? I

802
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 2: feel like I'm a good guy to have a vengeance quest.

803
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: You know, all of this, all this martial arts training

804
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 2: and shit I got Can I have some dudes, you know,

805
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: some like some like fighting dudes, right, and Marad is like, Yeah,

806
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: they'll probably work out pretty well for me. Have some dudes.

807
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: So you know.

808
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: Part of why this is noteworthy is that not long

809
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 2: after his death he's going to become a symbol first

810
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 2: of sort of resistance to the Ottomans and eventually of

811
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: like Romanian independence. He's going to get this reputation is

812
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: like the shield of the West from the marauding Ottomans,

813
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: and his memory is used. You can find a lot

814
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 2: of weird right wing culture warriors with Vlad the Impaler

815
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 2: shit to this day. It's worth noting he only gets

816
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: to power because he's cool with the Sultan right on

817
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: both sides. Yeah, yeah, he's a both set, which is

818
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: very much in line with other rulers and with how

819
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: his dad had played things, you know, Yeah, and his

820
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 2: uncles had played things.

821
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you do whatever is going to allow you to

822
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: survive to the next day. Yeah, it's a rough time

823
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 3: out there, yeah, exactly. So this works.

824
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: He winds up being coming the ruler of Wallachia for

825
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 2: what will be the first of three times. He is

826
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 2: in and out of there several times. The first piece

827
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: of documented evidence we have from Vlad the Impaler is

828
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: this letter he writes right after he comes to power.

829
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: It's the first documented like piece of writing that was

830
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: done by his hands. And this is not like a

831
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: big deal, but it's interesting that this first Lad the

832
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: Impaler letter is written on All Saints Day or Halloween

833
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: of fourteen forty eight.

834
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 3: That's kind of cool. Yeah, a man knows his brand.

835
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 2: That's incredible branding, right, that's the visionary site. Yeah, oh

836
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: my god. So he is seventeen when this happens and

837
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: all probably and he is already a hardened combat veteran,

838
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 2: but he is not going to be ruler for very long.

839
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: Within two months of taking power, one of his regional

840
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 2: rivals invades Wallachia and forces young Vlad the Not Yet

841
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: an Impaler to flee the scene. So by Christmas of

842
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: fourteen forty eight, he is out of power.

843
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: But with that nickname, they should have known he was

844
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: going to be an impaler. Yeah, and his name is

845
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 3: Lad than not Yet an Impaler. You got to keep

846
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: checking his Wikipedia page to see if it's it's safe

847
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 3: to fuck with him. Yeah, still not, but I've got

848
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 3: bad things are coming for us. Yeah.

849
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the that's the moment in the movie, like

850
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: they're checking their smartphones as they wait for the battle

851
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 2: to start, and they're like, oh shit, it just got updated,

852
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 2: and like the mods aren't reverting it, guys, we might

853
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: be fucked.

854
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 3: Bad news.

855
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 2: So Ladsman the next couple of years bouncing around kingdoms

856
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 2: ruled by his relatives in Moldova, cementing alliances, building a

857
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 2: base of power. By fourteen fifty two, he's reconciled with

858
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 2: him Hanyati and he's promised to serve the Hungarians as

859
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: defender of Wallachia. So he betrays the Sultan. Now this

860
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: is a bad time to betray the Sultan because right

861
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 2: after he's like, nah, I'm totally team Hungary, Constantinople falls

862
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: to the Turks, which is not a great position to

863
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: be in. Right this whole place, like this is where

864
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 2: you know, if you're fighting with the Turks and things

865
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 2: go badly, you can retreat in the direction of Constantinople.

866
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: That's going to stop being an option for these guys

867
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: very soon. So by July of fourteen fifty three, lad

868
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: has retaken power in Wallachia by personally hacking to death

869
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: the guy who had usurped the throne from him, probably

870
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 2: single combat, which is pretty cool. Right, Yeah, that is

871
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: how I.

872
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 3: Became the host of this podcast, right, Yeah, it was combat.

873
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so just hacking to pieces, that's right, hacked

874
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 3: two pieces. So in fourteenth makes a statement, Yeah yeah,

875
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 3: that's the best way to hack someone to pieces. O guy, Yeah,

876
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: to that other guy, to the taptain of this podcast.

877
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, you guys will take my kids.

878
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: So that's right, that's right, that's why we do it.

879
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 2: So fourteen fifty seven is the year when which Vlad

880
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: will commit the first massacre that kind of starts his

881
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: reputation off with a bang. As this history should drive home,

882
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of turnover and willocke in politics, right.

883
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: His family is in and out of power constantly, and

884
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: a lot of this has to do with the boyers, right,

885
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: these local nobles who are the rulers support system and

886
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 2: his primary threat, right, because you can't rule without the

887
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 2: support of the boyers. But also they're always, you know,

888
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: angling to get someone in who's better, right, better for them,

889
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 2: So I Vlad eventually gets kind of tired of this

890
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: whole game, and in Easter of fourteen fifty seven, he

891
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: invites all of his boyers for a big feast and

892
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: while they're eating, he kills the yeah, don't Yeah, somebody's

893
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: like in the bathroom, like you know, just kind of

894
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: freshening up and checks his phone. It's like, oh shit,

895
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: they changed his Wikipedia guys, we got to bounce.

896
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: Oh man. I'm going to quote from it called the Feast, Yeah, yeah, exactly,

897
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 3: real red wedding vibes.

898
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: I'm going to quote from a contemporary account here. While

899
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: all the citizens were feasting and the younger ones were dancing,

900
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: he Dracula surrounded them the boyars led them together with

901
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 2: their wives and children, just as they were dressed up

902
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: for Easter, to Ponari, where they were put to work

903
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 2: until their clothes were torn and they were left naked.

904
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 2: So basically, he makes them build his castle. These like nobles,

905
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 2: he forces, enslaves them, forces them to build his castle,

906
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: and then he impales them to death, right them and

907
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 2: their wives.

908
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 3: All these dudes and their.

909
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: Wives killed shit out of them, right, ugly stuff. Now,

910
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: there's a lot of stories of impalement from his reign.

911
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: This is kind of the first one, but you're going

912
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 2: to get a lot more. The most commonly told one

913
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: is that he wins this big victory against the Turks,

914
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: and he has maybe tens of thousands of their soldiers

915
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: impaled on the road leading to his capital, which is

916
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 2: so frightening that the Sultan in his army retreat rather

917
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 2: than advance further into Wallachia. It's impossible to know how

918
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: precisely true that all is, but again to a lot

919
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: of these weird right wing myths about the guy, it's

920
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: worth noting if he did impale the Sultan's army, which

921
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 2: is pretty likely, most of the guys, if not all

922
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: of them that he impaled, would have been like Christian Europeans,

923
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 2: because that's how the Ottoman army works, right, Like a

924
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: lot of their soldiers are these kind of like local

925
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: levees and stuff, often who are basically given to them

926
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: as like this is part of if you're allied with

927
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: the Ottomans, you send them an x number of kids

928
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: every year, right, and they train a lot of these

929
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: guys up as soldiers. Now, it's kind of unclear how

930
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: many people I've lad the Impaler kills, but it's a shitload.

931
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 2: Fifty thousand is probably a pretty good low estimate. Some

932
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 2: higher estimates are up to like one hundred thousand people,

933
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: and most of these are various forms of execution, including impalement.

934
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: But despite again this reputation, he starts to get as

935
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: the shield of the West. The majority of the people

936
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: that he's going to kill are his own folks, right,

937
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 2: you've got your boyers. Obviously, he kills a few hundred

938
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: of them. He kills a lot of purported spies and criminals,

939
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: and also just kind of anyone he thinks is a

940
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: danger to his rule. Vlad the Impaler early on is

941
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: going to be like, you know, what's going to keep

942
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: me in power is becoming a law and order guy. Right,

943
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: So he declares war on the homeless population, on beggars

944
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 2: and stuff indigence. He gathers a huge number of these

945
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 2: guys up and he burns them all to death, and

946
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: like a barn. Basically truly a right wing hero, this

947
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: guy is. He is very much a right wing era.

948
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: He is again a law and order guy. His royal

949
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: propaganda Burea will spread all these stories about like, oh,

950
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 2: you know, this merchant came to a town that that

951
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: Dracula was controlling one day and was like, somebody stole

952
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: my gold, and Dracula, you know, would do something brutal

953
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: to get it. Back right, like because there's you don't

954
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: commit crime, right, there's one of this One of the

955
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: common stories you hear is that like there's this watering

956
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: post for people like traveling through a rural area and

957
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: Dracula leaves this ornate golden cup there. And it's the

958
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: point that he does this is that like, as long

959
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 2: as the is there, you know that he's in power

960
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 2: because nobody would dare steal anything when when Dracula's running

961
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 2: the shit right almost certainly just like bullshit.

962
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 3: But that's the story.

963
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: One of the stories that gets told about this guy,

964
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: the reality.

965
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 3: Myth like the yeah, the good branding got him, a

966
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 3: myth about him being good at branding. Yeah, exactly, that's

967
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: a but that that's a cool story, a cool story.

968
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 3: Golden cup.

969
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 2: Again, probably not true because while he's in charge, there's

970
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: a bunch of uprisings. People are in fact not too

971
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 2: scared to piss off Dracula. Right, maybe they should have been,

972
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: because these don't go well. But I'm going to quote

973
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: again from Troe, who is our source, that is not

974
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 2: a priminal quote. The villages of satuln Hosman and Casults

975
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: were burned to the ground by his cavalry and the

976
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: supporters of Lad the Monk were butchered. Who is one

977
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: of these uprising leaders? A lot of lads Bode was

978
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: totally destroyed. Talm's left blazing, and it's people hacked like

979
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 2: cabbage in the town square. Merchants who are now expected

980
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 2: to sell their wares at the specified towns of Tigovi

981
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: State Tigsor and simplelun Cabbage like cabbage.

982
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, hacked like cabbage.

983
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: Hacked like cabbage, Yeah, just to pieces shredded. Merchants who

984
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 2: are now expected to sell their wares at below the

985
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 2: market rate were rounded up for non compliance and according

986
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: to these Saxon accounts, impaled by the road or boiled

987
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 2: in cauldrons. The young men to whom it was claimed,

988
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,919
Speaker 2: had been sent to Alakia to learn the language, were

989
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: likewise executed quite simply because they were clearly spies and

990
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: the Sacks. And the reason he brings that up is

991
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: that like a bunch of these German types have like

992
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: moved into Romania over the preceding generation. So there's like

993
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: German communities in a bunch of the cities in Wallachia.

994
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: And as is always the case, these guys, a lot

995
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 2: of them become like merchants, right, So these are kind

996
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 2: of like your upper middle class merchant class, and a

997
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 2: lot of these towns, that's a good group of people

998
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: to blame all your problems on. So Lad's going to

999
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: really do a lot of murdering of these German types.

1000
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: And so that's where a lot of the stories of

1001
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 2: him come from. Is these these especially these monks who

1002
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: like flee from him. You know, he fairly brutal to them,

1003
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: rain and they tell these they exaggerate these stories, right,

1004
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 2: he certainly did some fucked up shit, but they're also

1005
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 2: they're trying to like spread propaganda about this guy because

1006
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: he killed their friends.

1007
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 3: So they're also they're they're pumping it up a little bit, right, right,

1008
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 3: But does that help or does that just like make

1009
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 3: him more terrifying and people want to I.

1010
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 2: Mean, it's why he has this rep right, just because

1011
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 2: of these German germanic like monk accounts of his fatality.

1012
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 3: The monks had burn books, but they also were some

1013
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 3: of the only people who knew how to write, ye

1014
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 3: is that right? Yeah? So like a lot of this

1015
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 3: stuff is just the guy who was meanest to monks

1016
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 3: becomes a great historical monster. Just because monks knew how

1017
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 3: to write. Yeah, we say a lot. History is written

1018
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 3: by the victors, but it's also written by the people

1019
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: who know how to write, and so you've got a

1020
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 3: real advantage if you're the monks in that regard, you know. Yeah,

1021
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 3: so yeah, flat Again, as we noted above, he's not

1022
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: just impaling people. He'll boil alive.

1023
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 2: He's got some more creative methods though. But impalement gets

1024
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: a lot of attention right in part because it's it's

1025
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: kind of identified with the East, even though they're not

1026
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 2: the only people who do it. And the most infamous

1027
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 2: story of Lad the impaling some people comes after a

1028
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: military victory he won against his his rival with a

1029
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: very silly name, Dan the Third. He's like, he's got

1030
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: all these wild ass Hungarian Romanian names, and then there's

1031
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 2: just Dan hanging out there, like yeah, all these guys,

1032
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: you've got Vlad the Dracule and then like yeah, and

1033
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 2: then there's Dan the Third.

1034
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 3: Dan. They don't like, who is going to win that one,

1035
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 3: DrAk or Dan the Third the Third Dan? Yeah? Third?

1036
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 3: So he beats this ship.

1037
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: And yeah, this Dan at a town called Brassov quote.

1038
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 2: It was here that the inhabitants were impaled in large

1039
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: numbers as the chapel of Saint Jacob burned to the ground.

1040
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: According to the poet Mikhel b him, the the impaler

1041
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: sat at a table in the open air and mopped

1042
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 2: up from his plate the blood of his writhing victims.

1043
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: The boyer, who complained of the foul stinch, was impaled

1044
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: higher than the rest. Now most yeah, pretty cool.

1045
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, mainly like watching everybody get impaled and killed and

1046
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 3: complained that it smelled bad.

1047
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and someone who was going to be Yeah,

1048
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 2: it's fun.

1049
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I gotta tell you, man, this place smells like shit. Yeah. Yeah.

1050
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 2: So most of the Wallachians he massacred are again Germanic

1051
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: residents who have come to make up a significant chunk

1052
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 2: of the mercantile class during a series of migrations in

1053
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: previous centuries. And it's from a bunch of these guys

1054
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 2: that we get the stories of lad teppers that take

1055
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 2: him from he's just another guy in a pretty brutal

1056
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 2: area to like fucking Dracula. And I'm going to quote

1057
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: now from the Warfare History Network. Dracula's atrocities in Transylvania

1058
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: caused a tremendous backlash in the German community, which began

1059
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: to disseminate vicious propaganda against him. After extensive interviews with

1060
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 2: the survivors of the Saint Bartholomew's Day massacre, German poet

1061
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: Michael Beaham wrote the story of a bloodthirsty madman called

1062
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: Dracula of Lachia. In his poem, Biham describes the Vlad

1063
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 2: as dining amongst his impaled victims after the massacre. He

1064
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: even accuses Lad of dipping his bread in their blood.

1065
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: The genesis of the enduring association of Dracula with vampires.

1066
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: Vlad's horrific link to Transylvania as undoubtedly why Victorian novel

1067
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 2: Bram Stoker later chose to turn the real life Wallachian

1068
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 2: prince into a fictional Transylvanian count. So that's one argument

1069
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 2: is to like where the German this comes from. And

1070
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: some of the stories about Vlad are certainly true or

1071
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: at least had a germ of truth, right, But the

1072
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: whole legend of him is this bloodthirsty monster is the

1073
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 2: result of an effective propaganda campaign, not just by his enemies.

1074
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 2: They're one of them, right, These Germans want to turn

1075
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: him into a monster. The fact that he is so

1076
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 2: horrifying also helps to turn him into this like anti

1077
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: Turkish figure, like the Shield of the West. But the

1078
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 2: fact that he's so famous too. He's going to later

1079
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 2: primarily under Chouchescu, who is the We've done episodes on Chouchescu,

1080
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: the communist dictator in kind of the mid to late

1081
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 2: twentieth century. He's going to become this figure of Romanian nationalism,

1082
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: right because he's just like your first famous guy kind

1083
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 2: of that you can call the Romanian figure.

1084
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 3: So the blood sucking of Dracula originated with like dipping,

1085
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 3: like with kind of a like part time we're gonna

1086
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 3: get it.

1087
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: We're going to get into that. There's more to the

1088
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: blood sucking. But the first time you've got kind of

1089
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: Dracula directly like tied to drinking blood is this story

1090
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 2: of Laddy and Paler dipping his bread in blood, which

1091
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 2: again is almost certainly a lie because like, you kill people,

1092
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 2: but do you drink their blood?

1093
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 3: Really? I don't know, pretty gross. I wouldn't, so wouldn't,

1094
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 3: But I also love dipping my bread and stuff, and

1095
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 3: it's like such are to go about drinking blood? I mean,

1096
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 3: but also very much less badass. I dip some.

1097
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 2: Bread bread out of blood every now and then. I

1098
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 2: bet you could make a nice blood gravy that would

1099
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 2: be pretty rich, but probably a little salty.

1100
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 3: Of the most British, I've tried the hell out of that.

1101
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll do anything with blood, those weirdos. So, speaking

1102
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 2: of the British, our advertisers are not the British, so

1103
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: you can feel good about spending your money with them.

1104
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 3: We have been working on just getting the British to

1105
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 3: sponsor the show. Yeah.

1106
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not going great. Yeah, but we'll keep We'll

1107
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 2: keep pressing the flesh. Don't worry.

1108
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 3: We're back.

1109
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: So Vlad is going to go to war with his

1110
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 2: former allies the Turks in fourteen fifty nine. The Pope

1111
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 2: calls a crusade, and Vlad is the only European head

1112
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: of state to be like, yeah, I'll do that. Everyone

1113
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: else is like, I feel like we tried a lot

1114
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: of crusades and most of them didn't go well.

1115
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 3: So just Robert from my frame of reference, up to

1116
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 3: this point, the wars are being waged, or you know,

1117
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 3: when he's going in and like takeing out a rival

1118
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 3: and killing his whole town. How many people, Like, is

1119
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 3: it like sometimes thousands? Yeah, thousands, Okay, yeah, sometimes, Like

1120
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 3: again we're talking thousand to one hundred thousand total. That's

1121
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 3: he's going to massacre. And remember reading something about like

1122
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 3: ancient Greek warfare where it was like the towns were

1123
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 3: like so it was more on in line with like

1124
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 3: a high school football rivalry, like a lot of the

1125
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 3: towns and like the warring and like it was like yeah,

1126
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 3: and then they like came to our town, and you know,

1127
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 3: it's just like these small communities going to war with

1128
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 3: one another, which I don't really have a frame of

1129
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 3: reference for because war in the modern context is so massive.

1130
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is definitely smaller than modern wars.

1131
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 2: But he is killing a lot of people of these towns.

1132
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 2: You're probably talking dozens or hundreds of executions, but like

1133
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 2: he is, he is going to execute tens of thousands,

1134
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: So like it's not not purely like this little shit either.

1135
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so it almost makes it like area, you know,

1136
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 3: it's pretty Yeah, everyone gets Whitely murdered in a massacre.

1137
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that is kind of how you have

1138
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 2: to do it. Anyone left alive, that's like a threat

1139
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: to your your power potentially, so he breaks his treaty

1140
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: with the Sultan fourteen fifty nine. And part of this

1141
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 2: treaty is that every you know, so often Wailakia has

1142
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 2: to send several thousand young boys to serve as janissaries, right,

1143
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 2: which is like this Turkish elite military unit made up

1144
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 2: of like the kids of their rivals basically. And the

1145
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: way vlad announces we're not friends anymore is when the

1146
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: Sultan sends recruiting officers, Vladim pales them. And then when

1147
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 2: the Sultan is like what the fuck and he sends

1148
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 2: some diplomats to be like, hey, bro, what's going on. Lad,

1149
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 2: It's not going to go great. Vladd nails their turbans

1150
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: to their heads, which is going to piss off the

1151
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: Sultan a lot. That would piss me off if I

1152
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: sent diplomats and somebody nailed their their hats to their heads,

1153
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be thrilled time.

1154
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 3: If it's cool, it's cool, don't get me wrong. That's

1155
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 3: a cool thing to do if you're a bad guy.

1156
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 3: You know, if you're a bad guy and you're really

1157
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 3: leaning into it. Yeah, Also, like maybe don't send the

1158
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 3: second wave of I feel like the first sends a

1159
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 3: message what we do. We think that he just didn't

1160
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 3: like the recruiters specifically, and was like, these silver tongued

1161
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: foxes will come and uh cool him down.

1162
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna maybe this isn't the case. I'm not

1163
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 2: a not an expert here, but if I'm in charge,

1164
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: right and this happens, first thought I'm gonna have is like, oh,

1165
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 2: I could promote some guys I don't like to diplomats and.

1166
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 3: Get rid of the fuckers.

1167
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: I could.

1168
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: I could drop a few of these dudes, you know,

1169
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 3: just you my top diplomatic. Yeah, you're the you're the

1170
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 3: head of foreign policy. I got a gig for you now.

1171
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 3: So you breed like an elite fighting group made of

1172
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 3: your enemy's children.

1173
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the janissaries, right, not necessarily like like you're

1174
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: the rulers, but like basically, if you're a vassal to

1175
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: the Ottomans, you send them some kids every year, and

1176
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: there's some rules like it's not going to be your

1177
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 2: only son. If you only have one kid, they're not

1178
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 2: going to take that kid generally, and it's not the

1179
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 2: oldest usually, I think is one of the other rules.

1180
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 2: Like they they try because they don't want to piss

1181
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: people off too much. But like they take these kids

1182
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 2: in and they raise them and train them to be

1183
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 2: like elite soldiers, the Janisaries.

1184
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 3: Your spare kids, your kids, Yeah, soldiers maybe if you

1185
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 3: if you fuck around. Yeah, weird time, weird situation myself

1186
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 3: as one of any of these people. And it seems like, uh,

1187
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 3: and I'm not gonna lie a fucking waking nightmare.

1188
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 2: Yea to live at this time. Yeah, the past is

1189
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: not just a foreign country, but almost like a different planet.

1190
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 2: It's wild of the ship.

1191
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1192
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 2: Anyway, they go to Wark Vlad with the Turks, and

1193
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 2: the thing about Lad the Impaler that we definitely know is,

1194
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 2: by I think all accounts, he's a really good military leader.

1195
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: He's like really very good at running an army. He

1196
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 2: is outnumbered this whole time, often two to one, but

1197
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 2: he wins regular victories against the Sultan, and obviously when

1198
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 2: he captures Sultan's troops, he's got impale a shitload of

1199
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 2: these guys. But it's also the Sultan's army is very

1200
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 2: big and Vlad's is not, and so he suffers pretty

1201
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 2: high casualties over the course of this fighting, and eventually

1202
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: the elites back at the capitol are like, so, we're

1203
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: just burning all of this money fighting this war that

1204
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: we cannot, Like, the Ottoman Empire is much bigger than Wallachia.

1205
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 2: We've already burnt through a lot of our army. You

1206
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: are eventually going to lose this thing. So let's get

1207
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:46,919
Speaker 2: rid of this guy, because we don't want to keep

1208
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:48,959
Speaker 2: doing this shit, right, We want to do this stuff

1209
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 2: that's fun, not slowly, slowly lose a war of grinding attrition.

1210
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: So they overthrow Vlad. They put his sexy brother Radu

1211
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: in charge, and winds up having to like flee the

1212
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: scene after this battle and ends up in the care

1213
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 2: of the Hungarian king, and he's like, hey, could you

1214
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 2: give me an army to like take back power? And

1215
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: the King of Hungary is like, dude, you you and

1216
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 2: your family are the least reliable people on the planet.

1217
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 2: Why would I do that? Right, Like, why would I

1218
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: do that? You can't be trusted, None of you can.

1219
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 2: So if Lad SPAN's twelve years as the King of

1220
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 2: Hungary's prisoner, writer Mark Mark Longo notes quote that he

1221
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 2: wiled away his time torturing and impaling rodents he caught

1222
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: in his quarters. Maybe true, maybe not fun story either

1223
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 2: way and on brand, you know, good. Good for him,

1224
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 2: he's at least preventing the next plague by getting rid

1225
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: of those rats.

1226
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 3: I done it. I'm not a big rat guy. Not

1227
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 3: a big rat guy. He did a it's like done

1228
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 3: an article at Cracked. I think where just about how

1229
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 3: like wondrous rats are, Like, they're so smart and sourceful,

1230
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 3: and they're also a pretty big danger though. Yeah, even

1231
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 3: in a pet post ratituoy world, though, I would like,

1232
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 3: at an instinctual level, rather they all die right now.

1233
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's gonna be popular with certain quarters, unpopular

1234
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 2: with some.

1235
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, like intellectually I wouldn't do it because

1236
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 3: balance in nature.

1237
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,919
Speaker 2: But like my gut is just like ugh anti rat. Yeah,

1238
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 2: I read too many stories about the Black Plague to.

1239
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:31,919
Speaker 3: Trust him too, I think.

1240
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he catches a lucky break Vlad because his

1241
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 2: brother loses power in fourteen seventy three and vlad Or

1242
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: Rodhu gets replaced by a guy who wants to be

1243
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: friendly with the Ottomans. So with Hungarian backing, Vlad is

1244
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 2: able to retake the throne from this guy who's overthrown

1245
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 2: his brother in fourteen seventy six, and he takes power

1246
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 2: for the third time, which lasts about two months, after

1247
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: which he is found decapitated in a field.

1248
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 3: Is yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's like the ending of a

1249
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 3: no country for old men man, right, he just like

1250
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 3: having very killed at Jones, walks onto the sun said,

1251
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 3: then gives the monolog It'll do till the mess gets here. Yeah, exactly,

1252
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 3: it's part but good yeah, good line, a lot of

1253
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 3: good lines. So he came back, did did power for

1254
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 3: a little bit longer, and then they they took him out.

1255
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, then they took him out. Yeah, it's a it's like, uh,

1256
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: you know that banned the scorpions Jack, Yeah, of course,

1257
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 2: it's like when they It's like when after they broke

1258
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 2: up and then came back. It's just like that, don't

1259
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 2: look up the scorpions. I don't know if that's true.

1260
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 3: So and then we're found beheaded in a field somewhere.

1261
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1262
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, that that is what happened to the people

1263
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 2: who wrote Rock You Like a Hurricane. It is also

1264
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 2: worth noting that, like, you know, during this period of

1265
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 2: time where he's this military leader of lad his his

1266
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 2: big move is attack people at night. Also feeds into

1267
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 2: the vampire. Right, He's this blood drinking dude who comes

1268
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 2: after at the night, you know, at night his brother

1269
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 2: got buried alive. You can see some of the pieces

1270
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 2: of this, but there's a lot more to the story

1271
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: about how he goes from this dude, who is again

1272
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 2: pretty standard brutal Eastern European medieval leader to Dracula, the

1273
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 2: guy recently played by Nicholas Cage in a fairly fun movie,

1274
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 2: The Renfield Movie.

1275
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it. Nicholas picture Nicholas Cage for this entire

1276
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 3: story well, and Nick Cage and Nick Holt need to

1277
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 3: be in more things together. Both both fascinating faces, both

1278
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 3: of those guys. So back to the story. So we're

1279
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 3: going to talk about how he goes from this European

1280
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 3: military leader to the Dracula guy. And to do that

1281
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 3: we have to, thankfully finally get to move from the

1282
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:52,959
Speaker 3: shady environs of ill documented old history into a well

1283
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 3: trod field of solid folklorist research. And my main source

1284
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 3: here is the book The Vampire, a New History by

1285
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 3: English professor Nicholas Groom. Groom also writes articles about Nick

1286
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 3: Cave as a folklorus. This is another thing he's interested in,

1287
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 3: and I think that's pretty back. Yeah, definitely a vampire.

1288
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 3: I will say, I think higher odds that Nick Cave

1289
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 3: has drank the blood of his enemies than Vlad the Impaler,

1290
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 3: like almost certainly, Like I have trouble imagining Nick Cave

1291
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 3: drinking anything that's not the blood of his enemies. But

1292
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 3: of course, yeah, that's kind of his vibe, that is

1293
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 3: his vibe. Definitely mopped it up with a nice pa.

1294
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's a waste not kind of guy. That

1295
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: thing you know about Nick Cave. Murder Ballads, great album,

1296
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 2: everybody check it out. Got a good song about Staggerly anyway.

1297
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 2: Groom This Folklorus notes that the origins of the word

1298
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 2: vampire are somewhat controversial. It is often credited to coming

1299
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 2: from the French term avante paree, which means ancestor, but

1300
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 2: this is inaccurate. The terms most likely origins are in

1301
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 2: the Lithuanian word vompti, which means to drink, and the

1302
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 2: Serbo Croatian vampire or the Old Russian word upir, both

1303
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 2: of which are names right now. While the word vampire

1304
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: is quite modern, stories of blood sucking undead monsters that

1305
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 2: can change shape are about as old as civilization. It's

1306
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 2: often noted that the ancient Egyptian deity sec Met had

1307
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 2: some vampiric traits, but just drinking blood that doesn't make

1308
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 2: you a vampire, right. That trait is old in folklore,

1309
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,439
Speaker 2: so it gets kind of put into vampires because we've

1310
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 2: always had blood drinking monsters and gods in our myths.

1311
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 2: But the most direct precursor to the actual like cryptid

1312
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 2: basically monster, the vampire comes from Serbia, where the term

1313
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 2: vukodlak refers to both a vampire and a werewolf. Right,

1314
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 2: And it's worth noting considering how often these two go

1315
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 2: together in like our modern horror stories. R Like you,

1316
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 2: they come from the same origin, right, Vampires and werewolves

1317
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 2: were originally the same thing.

1318
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 3: Make sense.

1319
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 2: They're both they both eat people, and they're both like

1320
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 2: chained shape in the monsters right into animals, right, both

1321
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 2: the vampires into bats, were wolves into wolves.

1322
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 3: So they started like like, so I have a five

1323
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 3: year old and when he's playing, he's like, and then

1324
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 3: I can do this, and then I can also do that,

1325
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 3: and like sometimes it turned into a wolf, and then

1326
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 3: I can turn then I have wings and I have

1327
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 3: a and then I'm a bat. Like originally it was

1328
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 3: all just like somebody doing that. Yeah.

1329
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 2: Look, the winter is long. You spend most of it

1330
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 2: sitting inside your shack, hoping the wolves don't get you,

1331
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 2: and eating I don't know whatever, like fucking shit you

1332
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 2: managed to save from harvest time. There's not much to do,

1333
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 2: and you're drinking, so you're going to wind up telling

1334
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: a lot of stories about bullshit. Yeah, yeah, just kind

1335
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 2: of like adding stuff to it over time. Now, while

1336
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 2: the word vampire again, vampire is very modern, this is

1337
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 2: not an old concept like what we consider a vampire.

1338
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 2: So both kind of the werewolf and vampire mists we

1339
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 2: have today started off as these kind of like the vukodlac,

1340
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 2: this Serbian mythical creature, and they split pretty recently as

1341
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 2: groom rites quote. There is, however, a significant distinction to

1342
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 2: be made in the English language. In English, the werewolf

1343
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 2: was established by medieval times as a human shape changer,

1344
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 2: with origins and Anglo Saxon and possibly Old Norse culture,

1345
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: as well as in classical accounts of the disease of licanthropy.

1346
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,719
Speaker 2: The word vampire, however, was adopted in the seventeen thirties

1347
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 2: to describe a contemporary wonder. And this is really interesting

1348
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 2: to me because the concept we have of a vampire

1349
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 2: is inherently modern. You don't get a vampire with just

1350
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 2: just with people telling stories in the woods.

1351
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 3: Right.

1352
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 2: The concept of a vampire inherently brings comes out of

1353
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:52,719
Speaker 2: this sudden explosion in scientific understanding and knowledge that occurs

1354
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 2: in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, which come with both

1355
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 2: not just an understanding of like German disease theory, which

1356
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 2: is part of the vampire higher myth, right, this disease

1357
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 2: that gets spread through biting blood. But yeah, yeah, it

1358
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: comes with an increased appreciation of understanding of like the

1359
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 2: importance of blood in a medical and a forensic sense.

1360
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 3: Right.

1361
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 2: The seventeen hundreds is when we start to use blood

1362
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 2: to convict people of murders.

1363
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 3: Right.

1364
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 2: Obviously you're not doing DNA tests then, right, But in

1365
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 2: seventeen forty one, this English murderer James Hall gets convicted

1366
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 2: because he kills a guy and he can't clean up

1367
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 2: all of the blood, right, So there's like blood from

1368
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 2: the murder, and it's also on some of his stuff.

1369
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 2: And this is like, I think the first time, or

1370
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 2: at least one of the first times that like blood

1371
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,600
Speaker 2: as forensic evidence was used to convict a dude, is.

1372
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 3: It because like, prior to that, just everything was covered

1373
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 3: with blood. All this there's a lot of blood. Yeah, right,

1374
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 3: I just slipped in some blood, Yeah, stepping out of

1375
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 3: my house. Well I don't know where blood came from. Yeah, yeah,

1376
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 3: I'm sure there were other times where that connection was made,

1377
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 3: but this is like a famous case, and it's famous.

1378
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 3: It's also like really noteworthy in the history of forensics,

1379
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 3: and that's part of what's going to build to us

1380
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 3: understanding vampires. Right.

1381
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 2: Another key aspect, key ingredient to creating the vampire is

1382
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: the birth of print journalism, right, which plays a major

1383
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 2: role in disseminating these true crime stories. The vampire is

1384
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 2: a concept is inherently linked to true crime because starting

1385
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: in the seventeen hundreds, in particular, we get all of

1386
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 2: these viral news stories about serial killers and murderers. And

1387
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,679
Speaker 2: this really takes off in the eighteen hundreds because true

1388
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 2: crime has always been a reliable moneymaker and that's a

1389
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 2: big part of this myth. Bloom cites a book published

1390
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 2: by demonologist George Sinclair in sixteen eighty five who describes

1391
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 2: the murder of a man named Spalding in a town

1392
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 2: of called dal Keith. And this he describes a murder

1393
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 2: committed by a man named Spalding in a town called Dalkeith,

1394
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 2: and Spalding gets caught and hung but reanimate several times. Right,

1395
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,759
Speaker 2: they don't quite kill him successfully, so he keeps coming back.

1396
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 2: And this is sort of one of the story that

1397
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 2: contributes to the birth of the vampire myth, right, because

1398
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:06,799
Speaker 2: it's really noteworthy. This guy is this, commits this brutal

1399
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 2: murder and then you can't kill him, right. It's kind

1400
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: of like the rasputant stories. It gets spread a lot, right,

1401
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 2: and so people start like talking about it, and it's

1402
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 2: in their mind consciously or subconsciously as they're continuing to

1403
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 2: spend these folklore stories about monsters.

1404
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like that there is I think an

1405
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 3: under rated like blurriness to the barrier between life and death,

1406
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 3: like you see even today. And you know, it's just

1407
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 3: like at a certain point it's like I guess they're

1408
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 3: like pretty dead, right, Yeah, like there there. You know,

1409
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 3: it's like you don't know when a work of artist,

1410
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 3: the artist is just like done when they're done. Yeah,

1411
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 3: and it's like yeah, so yeah, it makes sense to

1412
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 3: me that that would be a contributing factor because it's

1413
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 3: still kind of confounding, and I think something that people

1414
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 3: don't like to think about, yeah, from doctors, about like

1415
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 3: not wanting to do a DNA or not wanting to

1416
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 3: be resuscitated. It's because there's like this weird blariness where

1417
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 3: you can be like kept alive even though you're mostly dead.

1418
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's also you know, it's it's not uncommon

1419
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 2: for people to be buried alive back then, and it's

1420
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 2: also not uncommon for people to commit murder. And some

1421
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 2: folkloris there's a theory that a lot of monster myths

1422
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 2: in the vampire would be kind of chief among them

1423
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 2: have their origin and unreal crimes by like what we

1424
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 2: now call serial killers, right, and people somebody in your

1425
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,759
Speaker 2: community who you've known surprises everyone by committing this brutal

1426
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 2: series of murders. It's really maybe you don't want to

1427
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 2: acknowledge that this. You could have just gotten this person wrong, right,

1428
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 2: somebody had something dark inside them that you didn't see,

1429
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,679
Speaker 2: and they committed this terrible crime. So the more comforting

1430
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 2: thing to believe is that they've caught some sort of

1431
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 2: demonic infection, right, sure, you know, and you know, for

1432
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 2: a while people just say, yeah, demons in them. But

1433
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 2: like vamporism in this age of science, is a transmissible

1434
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,719
Speaker 2: in and that can explain how somebody can do something

1435
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 2: seemingly out of character for them. Oh, this guy that

1436
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 2: we all knew killed his wife and kids in this

1437
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:12,839
Speaker 2: horrible way. He's a vampire. He caught the vampire infection, right, Yeah,

1438
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 2: And because there's this growing understanding of like vamporism as

1439
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 2: an illness, there's a thing you can do as opposed

1440
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 2: to just being horrified at this, at this terrible crime.

1441
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 2: You execute the murderer, but you also have to ensure

1442
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 2: that he's not going to reanimate, right, which gives you

1443
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 2: some action that you can take that maybe makes you

1444
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:30,799
Speaker 2: feel like you're protecting yourself.

1445
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 3: Right, So you just hang some garlic around their neck.

1446
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 2: Well, that is one of the things that you do. Yeah,

1447
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:37,679
Speaker 2: there's a couple of things that you do that play

1448
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 2: into the later myths. Right when somebody, when you think

1449
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 2: somebody is a vampire, you cut their head off often

1450
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 2: after you kill them, and you stake them. Not The

1451
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 2: initial version is not that the steak kills the vampire,

1452
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 2: but you stake them to their coffin so they can't

1453
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 2: get it, they can't get out.

1454
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 3: That's why. That's why I do it mainly, And but

1455
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 3: I did. I only rarely do the head cutting off thing. Yeah,

1456
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 3: well that's the way you got such a vampire problem,

1457
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,799
Speaker 3: and that's why I'm my property is lousy with vampires.

1458
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: You to watch the Vampire Diary series, do I have

1459
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 1: you not?

1460
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:15,679
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a young person who is pop culturally engaged,

1461
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 3: so of course I've watched it and know exactly the

1462
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:19,799
Speaker 3: reference you're talking about.

1463
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't you explain that reference just to the listeners?

1464
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: Know, Mitt Robert and I obviously know is one of

1465
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 1: the best television shows of all time. But the staking, yes,

1466
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,759
Speaker 1: the head cutting off, yes, But the garlic myth?

1467
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, myth?

1468
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I mean you would often stuff garlic in

1469
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: the mouth of the corpse too.

1470
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 1: You could also rip their heart out, that's the thing.

1471
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all sorts of stuff. People do a lot

1472
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 2: of different shit, and they do it not just as

1473
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 2: interesting because it's understood as a communicable infection. You don't

1474
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 2: just do this to the murderer. You do this too

1475
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 2: his victims too, because they might have caught it and

1476
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 2: you don't want them to re animate.

1477
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 3: Right.

1478
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 2: So again it's important to note this is all very

1479
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 2: tied to old folklore and superstitious beliefs about monsters, but

1480
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 2: it's also tied to medical science. You can look at

1481
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 2: all these things that become part of the lore of

1482
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,839
Speaker 2: how you defeat a vampire as people trying to create

1483
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,839
Speaker 2: diagnostic and treatment criteria for a disease.

1484
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 3: Now evil, Yeah, it's the sixteen hundred, seventeen hundreds, early

1485
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 3: eighteen hundreds. They're not good at that yet, right, like

1486
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 3: they do. This is not I'm just saying this is

1487
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 3: rigorous science, but it is. It is born out of

1488
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 3: an attempt to do to think scientifically, right. That is

1489
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 3: an key aspect to it. A lot of the modern

1490
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 3: like serial killer psychological profiling stuff is also equally just

1491
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:42,719
Speaker 3: complete bullshit.

1492
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:46,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of total bullshit, and it does I think

1493
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 2: a lot of our beliefs about like forensic science working

1494
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 2: a lot better than it does a lot of our

1495
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:55,679
Speaker 2: desire to believe in like these competent hyper detectives does

1496
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 2: come out of like the same thing as the concept

1497
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:00,720
Speaker 2: of a vampire, which is that, like, it's scary that

1498
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 2: people can commit murders and get away with them sometimes,

1499
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 2: and so it's comforting if you can find an explanation,

1500
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 2: even if that explanation a lot of it's nonsense, right,

1501
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 2: You know, forensic profiling is a flawed scientific field, but

1502
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:14,639
Speaker 2: at least it provides an answer, you know.

1503
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 3: Bring the scientists in, Yeah, now, make us feel better. Yeah.

1504
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 2: Vamporism is not just people wanting to like make things

1505
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 2: seem comfortable. There are also good, at the time, pretty

1506
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 2: good scientific reasons to believe that vamporism might be a

1507
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 2: real illness. A lot of it comes from the fact

1508
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 2: that rabies explodes in large parts of Europe during the

1509
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 2: time in which vampires are born as a mythical creature. Right,

1510
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 2: there's these huge outbreaks. Animals will bite several people, and

1511
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,919
Speaker 2: then those people rabies can cause you to get violently aggressive.

1512
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 2: They'll bite people and they'll transfer the disease to those people, right,

1513
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 2: And people who have rabies, there are certain things that

1514
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,799
Speaker 2: seem kind of like vamporism in them. One of them, obviously,

1515
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 2: is this sudden, unexplained, violent aggression. They also have a

1516
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 2: fear of water, right, that's noted as like a side

1517
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 2: effective rabies. Vamp and folklore can't cross running water.

1518
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: Not true on the Vampire Diaries, Thank you so much.

1519
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:07,600
Speaker 2: I'm glad the Vampire Diaries disagrees.

1520
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,799
Speaker 3: So one fact check everything for us using the text

1521
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 3: of the Vampire Diaries. So you get. One thing that.

1522
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 2: Differentiates the vampire from other beasts of legend is that

1523
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 2: there isn't it. It is a scientific phenomenon. That is

1524
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 2: how it's seen.

1525
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 3: It is a disease.

1526
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 2: You diagnose people with a it's not a Boggin's out

1527
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 2: in the woods. It's an illness, right, And so there's

1528
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,799
Speaker 2: diagnostic criteria and a lot of beliefs about how vamporism

1529
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 2: worked come from early attempts to grapple with germ theory

1530
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:40,640
Speaker 2: and the like. It's the result of an attempt at

1531
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:43,919
Speaker 2: scientific thinking that fails. And while a lot of monsters

1532
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 2: and stories drink blood, Dracula, I think is the first

1533
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 2: to suck it. So he's not just drinking it to

1534
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 2: get nourishment. He is sucking it and like that is

1535
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,880
Speaker 2: providing him with like vital life force, right, And that

1536
01:17:55,040 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 2: is tied to an early understanding of blood transfusion. Right,

1537
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 2: that's we start transfusing blood into people in the late

1538
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 2: sixteen hundreds.

1539
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 3: Way too early. Yeah, we are not good at it.

1540
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 3: You want to get sixteen hundred blood because it's.

1541
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 2: As soon as people develop the hypodermic needle and realize

1542
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 2: that we can inject blood into our veins, it becomes

1543
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 2: just the quackest quack here. You think these like rich

1544
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 2: people today shooting their young kids blood into them are

1545
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 2: are quacks? Oh, let me read you from This is

1546
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 2: from Groom's book The Wild Story of a Guy named

1547
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 2: Arthur Koga Quote Coga, a thirty two year old divinity

1548
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 2: graduate of Cambridge University, was looked upon as a very

1549
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:43,559
Speaker 2: freakish and extravagant man. On twenty third November sixteen sixty seven,

1550
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 2: he was treated to become more docile by receiving a

1551
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,680
Speaker 2: blood transfusion from a Lamb Peppies who's like one of

1552
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 2: the doctors observed that the medical fraternity differ in the

1553
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 2: opinion they have of the effects of it. Some think

1554
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 2: it may have a good effect upon him as a

1555
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,720
Speaker 2: frantic man by cooling his blood. Others that it will

1556
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 2: not have any effect at all. Coga saw the lamb

1557
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 2: as emblematic of meekness and humility, declaring in Latin, the

1558
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 2: blood of the sheep has symbolic power like the blood

1559
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,640
Speaker 2: of Christ, for Christ is the lamb of God. And

1560
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 2: science there solid medical thinking.

1561
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. The lamb's blood was transfused using quills and silver pipes,

1562
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 3: but Coga received a payment of twenty shillings, drank canary

1563
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 3: wine and smoked a pipe in celebration, and the operation

1564
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 3: was repeated on twelfth of December. Coga's mood was not

1565
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 3: noticeably softened by the treatment. However, some change has apparently

1566
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:33,920
Speaker 3: taken place. He wrote a begging letter to the Royal

1567
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 3: Society complaining that he had been transformed into another species

1568
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:39,960
Speaker 3: and was reduced to pawning his clothes, or, as he

1569
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 3: bombastically put it, he dearly purchases your sheep's blood with

1570
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 3: the loss of his own woolen. This sheep racked vessel

1571
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 3: of his like that of Argos. He addresses himself to

1572
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:52,599
Speaker 3: you and the golden fleece. He signed himself Angus Coga

1573
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 3: or Coga the sheep. Wow.

1574
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,719
Speaker 2: So this is probably a guy having like a mental

1575
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 2: health crisis and They're like, we've got to shoot full

1576
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:01,080
Speaker 2: of sheep blood.

1577
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 3: You know what would help this? Yeah, he doesn't feel

1578
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 3: good after this and convinces himself it's because he's been

1579
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 3: turned into a sheep man. Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah,

1580
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 3: I have a I have a quick question for you. Sure, sure, Jack.

1581
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 3: So we've talked about this on my podcast, The Daily

1582
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 3: Zeitgeist with Miles Gray. Yeah, the model of vampire fangs.

1583
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 3: When you picture a vampire sucking blood, do you picture

1584
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,679
Speaker 3: the fangs having little hollow tubes inside them? Yeah? Yeah,

1585
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 3: how the blood up like a reverse like snake fang.

1586
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:39,280
Speaker 3: And I assume that that leads into their veins, right,

1587
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 3: and then that they get that blood in their veins.

1588
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 3: That's my assumption. Well, on the Vampire Diary, I feel

1589
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,760
Speaker 3: like not on the Vampire Diaries, they kind of just

1590
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,679
Speaker 3: look like pointy little teeth. They really makes sense. We

1591
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 3: we've always we've like talked about where we I think

1592
01:20:56,080 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 3: I got that from the Reese's peanut butter cup ed Yeah,

1593
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 3: where that is of most of my medical information? Yeah,

1594
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 3: because it doesn't really like we've we've asked this of

1595
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,679
Speaker 3: a bunch of our guests, and like half of them

1596
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 3: are like, yeah, of course that's exactly what happens in

1597
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 3: my brain, and the other half are like, what are

1598
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 3: you talking about? Why would that be? It? Like you

1599
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:23,719
Speaker 3: just they poke two little holes and then suck your blood,

1600
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 3: as it's said, They don't. They don't say I want

1601
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:27,880
Speaker 3: to like have my.

1602
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 2: I want to suck your blood. I want to like

1603
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:35,120
Speaker 2: drink your blood and have it go into my stomach. Yes,

1604
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 2: I think assuming that that line that I don't even

1605
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 2: know where that comes from. I think that's like, that's

1606
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 2: like Hanna bar Barrack cartoons in the seventies where he

1607
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 2: probably started saying that. But I do treat that as

1608
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 2: as vampiric fact for sure. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

1609
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,960
Speaker 3: But I was just I basically that is one of

1610
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 3: the first questions I ask everybody. Sure, the horror subject

1611
01:21:56,120 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 3: of vampire.

1612
01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,680
Speaker 2: Known for this, So by the seventeen hundreds, blood is

1613
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,880
Speaker 2: a central topic of scientific discussion, and all of these

1614
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 2: factors are these intellectual people are shooting blood into each other. Right,

1615
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 2: there's the birth of true crime as a genre. You've

1616
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:15,759
Speaker 2: got constant news stories that are just like lavish tales

1617
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 2: of bloody, gory murder. You've got this early understanding of forensics,

1618
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 2: this early understanding of germ theory, all of that is

1619
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 2: going to play a role in what's called the Great

1620
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 2: Vampire Epidemic.

1621
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:29,560
Speaker 3: Were you aware that this was a thing, that we

1622
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 3: had a vampire epidemic? I was not.

1623
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 2: No, it's fucking dope. It runs from about seventeen twenty

1624
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 2: five to about the mid seventeen fifties, and it's basically

1625
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 2: there's a moral panic about vampires, kind of the same

1626
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 2: way we have it when like you get a terrorist

1627
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:47,920
Speaker 2: attack and then suddenly people in like rural towns thousands

1628
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:51,679
Speaker 2: of miles away are like they're coming for us next. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1629
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 2: you get all this kind of stuff, right, or you'll

1630
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 2: get yeah, you'll hear a story about like a serial

1631
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 2: killer in fucking Idaho, and then like people will start

1632
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 2: flipping out, like I don't know, suburban Georgia that like

1633
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,559
Speaker 2: their next human beings are not good at threat modeling.

1634
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 2: That happens with vampires, right. There's this suddenly, this explosion

1635
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 2: in vampire tales all around Europe, primarily Western and Eastern Europe.

1636
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 2: One write up on the Great Vampire Epidemic that I

1637
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 2: found by researchers from the University of Virginia credits the

1638
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:23,600
Speaker 2: epidemic to outbreaks of both rabies and polagra. So you

1639
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 2: have a bunch of rabies outbreaks. Not hard to see

1640
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 2: why someone again not a rational that if there's a

1641
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 2: rabies outbreak in your town and someone's like, it's vampires,

1642
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 2: you'd be.

1643
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it seems like it sure looks like vampires.

1644
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 3: Pale guy who has blood all over his mouth which

1645
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 3: is crossing water eating people. Sure, yeah, it seems like

1646
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 3: a vampire to me.

1647
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:44,000
Speaker 1: Pale guys.

1648
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,600
Speaker 3: Glad you had like nice tans? What was they just

1649
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:49,400
Speaker 3: looked normal?

1650
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just looked normal. Jack.

1651
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:57,920
Speaker 3: Wow. Wow, Wow you said that like I was being Yeah.

1652
01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 2: You're not you're not familiar with the sacred Text. The

1653
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 2: other disease out that contributes to vampire understanding is there's

1654
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 2: these these outbreaks of what's called polagra. Now, polagra is

1655
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 2: an illness. It's very new to Europeans, which is why

1656
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:14,719
Speaker 2: it freaks them out right, because it hadn't existed, because

1657
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 2: it couldn't have because polagra is something you get as

1658
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 2: a result of eating too much corn or improperly prepared corn. Right,

1659
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 2: there's ways you have to prepare corn that we know

1660
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,639
Speaker 2: about now in order to avoid getting pelagra. But corn

1661
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 2: has just it's this sexy new world crop that we

1662
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 2: import here and start putting in everything. And so people

1663
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 2: are getting pollagra because we're not used to corn yet, right,

1664
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 2: And pollagra has a lot of symptoms that seem similar

1665
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 2: to vamporism. You get a sensitivity to sunlight, right, you

1666
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 2: can't be out in the sun. You get burnt really easily,

1667
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,440
Speaker 2: right obvious where that comes from. You get severe anemias.

1668
01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:53,839
Speaker 2: Some people with pelagra will crave blood. Now again, animal

1669
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:56,879
Speaker 2: blood is often used in this period in various food sausages,

1670
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 2: so it's not weird that somebody would have access to it.

1671
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 2: But like people who can't be out on the sun

1672
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 2: and crave blood, not hard to see where that fits in, right, yeah, yeah,

1673
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 2: And I'm going to quote from the University of Virginia here.

1674
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 2: Epidemics link rabies to a large number of deaths in

1675
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:15,559
Speaker 2: Eastern Europe, where vampire hysteria was particularly strong. Several hundred

1676
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 2: cases of the disease were recorded, spread initially by rabid

1677
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:20,800
Speaker 2: wolves and then in at least some cases people. The

1678
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:22,840
Speaker 2: wolf and the vampire have a well known link as

1679
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:25,719
Speaker 2: being a creature the vampire can change into but further

1680
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 2: the disease is spread through biting. Victims avoid sunlight, and

1681
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 2: they can be repelled by strong odors, garlic being a possibility.

1682
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 2: The hysteria that started to spread into the rest of

1683
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 2: Europe led to the word vampire from the Serbian, first

1684
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 2: entering German as their vampire around seventeen twenty six and

1685
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,719
Speaker 2: later into English vampire by seventeen thirty four at the latest.

1686
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:48,479
Speaker 2: As this epidemic is spreading, people are convinced vampires are

1687
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:52,799
Speaker 2: all over the place. They start decapitating all these suspected vampires,

1688
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:55,960
Speaker 2: staking them to their coffins. They start executing people and

1689
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,640
Speaker 2: then doing that to them because they believe that they're vampires,

1690
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 2: and they start doing that to all their victims. So

1691
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,599
Speaker 2: there's this this God knows how many thousands of people

1692
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 2: get like dug up and decapitated and staked to their

1693
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 2: coffins because there's this belief that like they've caught the

1694
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 2: vampire sickness and this is the only way to stop it. Now,

1695
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 2: the real culprit is their corn, right, it's corn, and wolves,

1696
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 2: as it always is in history, can't handle their corn.

1697
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:23,759
Speaker 2: But they don't know that yet because they're stupid old

1698
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 2: time people, right, not a smart new time people who

1699
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:34,759
Speaker 2: understand diseasesn't always take precautions against them. They're dummies, stupid dummies. Anyway,

1700
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 2: the Great vampire epidemic of the mid seventeen hundreds is

1701
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 2: kind of like the last hurrah for believing in vampires

1702
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:45,280
Speaker 2: on like a widespread cultural level is like an actual

1703
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 2: scientific illness. Because this kind of moral panic or hype

1704
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:53,880
Speaker 2: or whatever around vampires, it leads scientific men, men of

1705
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 2: reasoning and understanding to finally reject vamporism wholly as a

1706
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:00,559
Speaker 2: real disease as they gain an actual understanding about like

1707
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,600
Speaker 2: what's causing their problems. Right, So this is in this

1708
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,519
Speaker 2: kind of the late sixteen hundreds early seventeen hundreds, you

1709
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 2: can find a lot of quote unquote educated men who

1710
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,560
Speaker 2: will argue it's an actual illness that stops after the

1711
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 2: Great vampire Epidemic. Now, the last crucial link in the

1712
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 2: chain from Vlad the Impaler to modern Dracula myths was

1713
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:23,720
Speaker 2: the childhood of a guy named Bram Stoker. Bram is

1714
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:27,440
Speaker 2: an irishman, and if you know anything about the eighteen hundreds,

1715
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,120
Speaker 2: if you are an Irish child, in the eighteen hundreds.

1716
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 2: You're gonna see some shit.

1717
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 3: Things are good, right, have a good time famously chill

1718
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 3: time in Ireland eighteen hundreds.

1719
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one of his first he's a sickly kid

1720
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 2: and also everyone around him is dying all the time, right.

1721
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 2: That is Bram Stoker's childhood, because he's an Irish kid

1722
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 2: in the eighteen hundreds. One of his first early memories

1723
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 2: is the great cholera outbreak in Ireland that occurs in

1724
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:56,719
Speaker 2: this kind of in the early mid eighteen hundred periods.

1725
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 2: Cholera is an incredibly virulent illness that's spread initially by

1726
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 2: contaminated water. As a result, once it hits a city,

1727
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:08,759
Speaker 2: like an urban area, it explodes. And this is cholera

1728
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 2: is one of these things. When it hits an area

1729
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 2: where you live, we're talking an end of days virus.

1730
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 2: This is like the shit we make movies about, right.

1731
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 2: Cholera is a fucking nightmare. And it hits the town

1732
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 2: of Sligo where the Stokers live in eighteen thirty two.

1733
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:25,720
Speaker 2: Bram's mother Charlotte later recalled one evening we heard a

1734
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 2: missus Feene, a very fat woman who was a music teacher,

1735
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 2: had died suddenly, and by the doctor's orders, had been

1736
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:34,040
Speaker 2: buried an hour after with blanched faces. Men looked at

1737
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,680
Speaker 2: each other and whispered cholera. But the whispers the next

1738
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:39,320
Speaker 2: day deepened into a roar, and in many houses lay

1739
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 2: one or two or three dead. One house would be

1740
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 2: attacked and the next spared. There was no telling who

1741
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:46,320
Speaker 2: would go next. And when one said goodbye to a friend,

1742
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 2: he said it as if forever. Because one of the

1743
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:50,719
Speaker 2: things about choler he mentions that she's fat.

1744
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:51,000
Speaker 1: I don't.

1745
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 2: He's not like trying to fat shame or he's because

1746
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 2: that means healthy, right if that means that, like you're nourished,

1747
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 2: And it kills her like that because people you can

1748
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:02,760
Speaker 2: get color and be dead in twelve hours, right like

1749
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 2: it is, And so it has this It is almost

1750
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 2: like a monster, like a vampire, is just sweeping through

1751
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 2: town in massacring families.

1752
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:12,880
Speaker 3: That is the speed with which this thing kills. So

1753
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 3: Bram's earliest memories and the stories that adults tell them

1754
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 3: are about this implacable wave of death that is supernatural

1755
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 3: almost in its power and totality, and because it is

1756
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 3: so contagious, the need to there's this great need. You

1757
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 3: have to dispose of the corpses of the people that

1758
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:31,799
Speaker 3: it's killing. You have to do it quickly. And because

1759
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 3: medical science still isn't great, a lot of living people

1760
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:36,680
Speaker 3: get thrown into mass graves that they then dig out

1761
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 3: over they're put into morgues. They're found to later be alive.

1762
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 3: Some of them even survive through this because there's like

1763
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 3: very drunk during a cholera alcore roll into a mass grave.

1764
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also, like you can see how this is

1765
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:55,240
Speaker 2: all filming a part of a fertile uh like background

1766
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 2: for Bram Stoker, right, He's going to have all this

1767
01:29:57,120 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 2: stuff going around in his young mind. Now, Hoolera is

1768
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 2: also a disease of capitalism, right, And it's also a

1769
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:06,839
Speaker 2: result of the new nature of life in these massive,

1770
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 2: crowded cities that are fueled by products from far away.

1771
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:16,000
Speaker 2: So vampire is right, But it's also it's kind of

1772
01:30:16,040 --> 01:30:18,640
Speaker 2: worth noting for brand because he is when he is

1773
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 2: growing up, scientists don't believe in vamporism is a literal

1774
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 2: thing anymore.

1775
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 3: He wouldn't have been raised that this was a real

1776
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:26,799
Speaker 3: literal thing. But it has.

1777
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:31,519
Speaker 2: Become a cultural touchstone and it becomes deeply associated with

1778
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 2: capitalism and wealth in the late seventeen hundreds. By the

1779
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 2: time Bram is growing up, he's not hearing about vamporism

1780
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:41,760
Speaker 2: as this real thing, right because he's a cosmopolitan young man.

1781
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 2: He is hearing about it in political treatises. It's being

1782
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 2: used as a metaphor for the greed of bankers and

1783
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 2: rapacious tax men. Right, because vampires suck blood. You can

1784
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 2: call a fucking tax man a blood sucker, right. That

1785
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 2: is his first the first time Bram is going to

1786
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 2: encounter vampires, it's going to be people writing about them

1787
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 2: as like a fill in for their their enemies generally,

1788
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 2: like these businessmen and whatnot.

1789
01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:08,720
Speaker 3: And idea that the taxman I do call him a

1790
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 3: bloodsucker every year on my taxi terms. That's right, that's right.

1791
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 2: But no, it's worth noting one of the major guys

1792
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:17,679
Speaker 2: who spreads this kind of the use of the term

1793
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,640
Speaker 2: vampire to describe, you know, bankers and the like is

1794
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 2: Karl Marx. He's a major figure in this period of

1795
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:28,280
Speaker 2: like the popular conception of the vampire. Groom writes quote

1796
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 2: in the Class Struggles in France eighteen fifty, the French

1797
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 2: National Assembly is described as a vampire living off the

1798
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 2: blood of the June insurgents. Similarly, in the eighteenth Brumere

1799
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 2: of Louis Bonaparte eighteen fifty two, in a reversal of

1800
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,639
Speaker 2: Edmund Burk's language condemning the French Revolutionaries, the bourgeoisie order

1801
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 2: has become a vampire that sucks out the rural workers

1802
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,040
Speaker 2: blood and brains and throws them into the alchemists cauldron

1803
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 2: and Marx and a bunch of other guys who are

1804
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:57,760
Speaker 2: proto socialists and socialist thinkers in this period use vampires

1805
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:01,639
Speaker 2: to describe capitalism because it's like, it's pretty good metaphor, right,

1806
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 2: Like it's not. And this is where, if you'll notice,

1807
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 2: when we're talking about the Great Vampire epidemic, vampires aren't

1808
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 2: rich people. They're not powerful people. It's just whoever, right,

1809
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 2: it's a disease. Right now, This is how vampires become wealthy,

1810
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 2: cultured people, right is in this period of time they

1811
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:21,360
Speaker 2: start being discussed in like the concept of a banker.

1812
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:24,840
Speaker 2: That's why, ultimately, when Bram Stoker writes his Dracula book,

1813
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 2: he envisions Dracula as a count, right, not just a count,

1814
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 2: but like a real estate Baron. Right, A big chunk

1815
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 2: of the Dracula book is Dracula doing like real estate transactions.

1816
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:36,679
Speaker 2: You know, he's like buying and selling properties and shit.

1817
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sophie, Vampire diaries, do we have confirmation they're definitely.

1818
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,680
Speaker 1: It depends on how old they are, like new vamps now.

1819
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 3: But they don't care about real estate because they can't

1820
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 3: afford it.

1821
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:53,600
Speaker 1: But they do seek out like foreclosured houses, and like

1822
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: they kind of pick out like the best house in

1823
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 1: the neighborhood and they like take it over because they

1824
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 1: technically have to be invited in if it's a human

1825
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:01,679
Speaker 1: owned house.

1826
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so that part holds up.

1827
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 2: Okay, that does hold up. So a couple of things here.

1828
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 2: One is that the stories that Bram Stoker grows up

1829
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:12,360
Speaker 2: with the vampires, it's both this mix of like he's

1830
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:16,320
Speaker 2: a politically savvy, you know, guy who's plugged in. He's

1831
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:18,800
Speaker 2: reading a lot of articles that are using the vampires

1832
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 2: as a sort of like an insult really to describe

1833
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 2: these like rapacious early capitalists. The other place he's going

1834
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 2: to encounter vampires is in kind of some of the

1835
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:31,760
Speaker 2: first horror stories, right, and these are like one of

1836
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:35,000
Speaker 2: the guys. Who is responsible for this is Lord Byron right,

1837
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 2: who in eighteen nineteen writes an article called The Vampire,

1838
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:41,640
Speaker 2: a Tale by Lord Byron, and this is this is

1839
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:43,880
Speaker 2: going to spread. This is a very popular story. These

1840
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 2: guys are kind of like some of the fact along

1841
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:49,519
Speaker 2: with Poe, some of the foundational horror authors. And the

1842
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 2: Vampire is a really popular story by Lord Byron, and

1843
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,400
Speaker 2: in fact it spreads. This is kind of a little

1844
01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 2: bit of an aside, but it was too interesting not

1845
01:33:58,360 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 2: to mention. Byron published this thing in eighteen nineteen, and

1846
01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 2: it's it takes you know.

1847
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 3: I'm actually just.

1848
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 2: Going to read a quote from this article in the

1849
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:10,280
Speaker 2: conversation quote. The Vampire did away with the Eastern European

1850
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:12,680
Speaker 2: peasant vampire of old. It took this monster out of

1851
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:15,439
Speaker 2: the forest, gave him an aristocratic lineage, and placed him

1852
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:17,880
Speaker 2: into the drawing rooms of the Romantic era England. It

1853
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:20,360
Speaker 2: was the first sustained fictional treatment of the vampire and

1854
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:24,759
Speaker 2: completely recast the folklore and mythology on which it drew. Now,

1855
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 2: this story is initially credited to Byron. It's later found

1856
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:29,200
Speaker 2: out it was like a friend of his, this guy,

1857
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 2: John Polodori. But that doesn't really matter all that much

1858
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 2: other than that, like Byron kind of a fame hound.

1859
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, with a cool name. People would rather cool vampire

1860
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:43,800
Speaker 3: story be written by Polidori Byron rather than Hey, it's

1861
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:47,559
Speaker 3: my boy, Johnny Pulidari, Yeah, j pol Yeah.

1862
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:50,599
Speaker 2: So one of the things that I didn't know until

1863
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:52,719
Speaker 2: I started doing that I was familiar with, like Byron

1864
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:54,920
Speaker 2: and him getting credit and being by this other guy.

1865
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 2: It's like kind of the first vampire story in a

1866
01:34:57,160 --> 01:35:01,519
Speaker 2: modern sense. But there's actually another vampire book that gets

1867
01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 2: that's extremely influential, that comes out before Bramstoker's Dracula, and

1868
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:10,360
Speaker 2: it's an American response to the Polidari story, The Vampire. Right,

1869
01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:14,040
Speaker 2: And the title of this is The Black Vampire, A

1870
01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:18,519
Speaker 2: Legend of Saint Domingo by one Uriah Derek d' rc.

1871
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:19,240
Speaker 3: Now.

1872
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are thinking about the

1873
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 2: movie Blackula, right, which is a black exploitation movie. But

1874
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:27,479
Speaker 2: this is actually this is not we're not talking about

1875
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 2: like I don't know, Like, this is actually a serious

1876
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:35,479
Speaker 2: and influential work of literature, right, And it's interesting because

1877
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 2: it is one of the first popular anti slavery narratives. Right,

1878
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:42,840
Speaker 2: This is written in the early eighteen hundreds. It is

1879
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 2: the first American vampire story is of a black vampire,

1880
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 2: and it is also it might be the first short

1881
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 2: story to argue in favor of emancipation right. This is

1882
01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:56,120
Speaker 2: published fourteen years before Lydia Child is going to write

1883
01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:58,400
Speaker 2: a book called An Appeal in Favor of that class

1884
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:01,760
Speaker 2: of Americans called Africans, which is kind of probably the

1885
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 2: first big anti slavery book. So it's one of the

1886
01:36:04,360 --> 01:36:09,840
Speaker 2: first popular pieces of literature arguing for emancipation right. It

1887
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:12,680
Speaker 2: is not super well known, although you can find some

1888
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:15,720
Speaker 2: You can find copies of it online. Now I'm going

1889
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:19,200
Speaker 2: to quote again from the conversation here. Darcy's narrative begins

1890
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:22,000
Speaker 2: with a slave owner, mister Person in what is now Haiti,

1891
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 2: repeatingly trying to kill a ten year old slave. Much

1892
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:28,000
Speaker 2: as he tries, though the corpse keeps reviving. Person orders

1893
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 2: the child to be burned, but the boy moves with

1894
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:33,080
Speaker 2: supernatural speed and miraculously causes the slave owner to be

1895
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:36,080
Speaker 2: flung into the fire instead. Before mister Persone dies, his

1896
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 2: wife informs him that the cradle of their unbaptized son

1897
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:41,640
Speaker 2: is empty apart from his skin, bones and nails. Some

1898
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,640
Speaker 2: years later, we returned to person's widow, Euphemia, who is

1899
01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 2: in mourning for her third husband. She is visited by

1900
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:49,880
Speaker 2: two strangers, an extremely handsome black man dressed as a

1901
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:53,599
Speaker 2: Moorish prince accompanied by a pale European boy. He charms

1902
01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:55,800
Speaker 2: her with his elegance and beauty and rapidly wins her

1903
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:59,080
Speaker 2: hand in marriage, which takes place that evening. The same night,

1904
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 2: he reveals that he is a vampire and converts Euphemia

1905
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:04,680
Speaker 2: to his bloodthirsty set. Married to a monster and now

1906
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,720
Speaker 2: a monster herself, Euphemia learns that the prince's pale young

1907
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:11,479
Speaker 2: companion is her vanished son, now also a vampire. And

1908
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,760
Speaker 2: so part of what's going on here is like vampism

1909
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 2: is kind of standing in as like this thing that

1910
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 2: people are judged for in the same way they're judged

1911
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:21,639
Speaker 2: for like interracial marriages and stuff.

1912
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:21,720
Speaker 3: Like.

1913
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:24,200
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on in this story. It's also

1914
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:27,320
Speaker 2: very much like a sympathetic narrative about the Haitian Revolution.

1915
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:30,600
Speaker 2: I had no idea this book existed, but this is

1916
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 2: the first American vampire right as well as this black

1917
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:37,960
Speaker 2: vampire in this early pro emancipation narrative America loves to

1918
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 2: forget about great shit.

1919
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. I think that's pretty neat.

1920
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:45,960
Speaker 3: It seems relevant, it seems relevant all these different themes.

1921
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:48,679
Speaker 3: Huh yeah. And was it not popular at the time

1922
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:49,519
Speaker 3: at the time, or.

1923
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:51,760
Speaker 2: It is it is it's reasonably popular at the time.

1924
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:54,160
Speaker 2: It's not huge, obviously, it gets kind of like forgotten

1925
01:37:54,200 --> 01:37:56,240
Speaker 2: for the most part because it's not a touchstone. But

1926
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:59,439
Speaker 2: it's not like an unsuccessful story, I don't think. But

1927
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:01,719
Speaker 2: it's not going to be nearly as successful as Bram

1928
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:05,320
Speaker 2: Stoker's Dracula. And you know Bram, one of the things,

1929
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:07,840
Speaker 2: he's the manager of a theater, right, that's how he

1930
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:10,599
Speaker 2: makes a job money in his early life. So he's

1931
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 2: he probably he reads, you know, Polidars the Vampire. He

1932
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:17,679
Speaker 2: also when he's kind of you know, doing this this

1933
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 2: this gig managing a theater, he comes across this book

1934
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:22,360
Speaker 2: that had been written in eighteen twenty by a British

1935
01:38:22,439 --> 01:38:26,439
Speaker 2: politician about the history of Wallachia and Moldavia. And because

1936
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,839
Speaker 2: lad the Impaler has become this sort of the Shield

1937
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:32,559
Speaker 2: of the West type figure and also this demonized figure

1938
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:35,200
Speaker 2: by the Germans, this book has a lot of stories

1939
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:38,680
Speaker 2: about the brutality of lad the Impaler. So, you know,

1940
01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:42,080
Speaker 2: bram Stoker is becomes he's kind of obsessed with this

1941
01:38:42,200 --> 01:38:44,760
Speaker 2: area that becomes Romania. He reads a lot about it.

1942
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 2: He's also reading these stories about you know, cultured vampires,

1943
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:51,760
Speaker 2: getting these like rants about the vampires the symbol of capitalism,

1944
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:55,960
Speaker 2: and all of this kind of fuses together to create

1945
01:38:56,479 --> 01:38:59,400
Speaker 2: the Dracula that he writes in his book Dracula in

1946
01:38:59,439 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 2: eighteen nine, right, and that is eighteen ninety something like that.

1947
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:06,040
Speaker 2: That's how we get Dracula. That's where he comes from, everybody.

1948
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:08,920
Speaker 3: And that's he's just kind of pulling a cool name

1949
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:11,240
Speaker 3: from this history book that he's reading. It's too cool.

1950
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he reads this and he's like, well, that's too

1951
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 2: cool a name to not use. I gotta I gotta

1952
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:17,839
Speaker 2: call him fucking and he's got This guy is so brutal.

1953
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:20,439
Speaker 2: I want this to be a scary monster. Dude, this

1954
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,040
Speaker 2: guy scary as shit. Like, yeah, let's go for it.

1955
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:25,760
Speaker 3: You know, is the is the impaling and the like

1956
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:29,559
Speaker 3: staking the vampire? Like are those two suspected two have

1957
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:35,400
Speaker 3: been yinked? I think they? I mean, it certainly fits together, right, Yeah,

1958
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:39,640
Speaker 3: and then the chocolate cereal with marshmallows, Like does it

1959
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 3: where does that come up?

1960
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:41,479
Speaker 1: Uh?

1961
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:46,880
Speaker 3: Well, marshmallows, Jack, are the blood of uh candy, So

1962
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:53,519
Speaker 3: oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah that makes sense though. Anyway, Jack,

1963
01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:57,800
Speaker 3: that is the story of the vampire. You gotta got

1964
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:01,240
Speaker 3: a name. How you feeling. I'm feeling good, Man, Like

1965
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:05,639
Speaker 3: I'm a little bummed out because the guy did impale

1966
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:09,639
Speaker 3: a lot of like he earned number of people, sure,

1967
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:14,760
Speaker 3: like I was not. I think I'm gonna stop trying

1968
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:17,160
Speaker 3: to get people to call me Jack the Impaler because like,

1969
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:20,479
Speaker 3: I don't think I can impale that many people. Jack,

1970
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:25,479
Speaker 3: I just the nickname that ended up sticking. Sleepy Jack

1971
01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 3: the pumpkinheaded bitch is like terrible, It's not good, and

1972
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 3: I just wish people would stop calling me that.

1973
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:34,479
Speaker 2: But I'm going to tell you something Jack that my

1974
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 2: grandma told me, which is that you're never going to

1975
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 2: be judged by the number of people you were impaled.

1976
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:42,639
Speaker 2: You're always going to be judged by the last person

1977
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:44,120
Speaker 2: you impaled, right.

1978
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 3: And and the people you impale will not remember how many,

1979
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:52,599
Speaker 3: They will remember how you made them feel. Yeah, when

1980
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 3: you when you were impaling them. Yeah, Grandma was so wise.

1981
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 3: I have so many of her saying written down. He

1982
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:04,920
Speaker 3: said that a lot of them, almost all of them

1983
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:09,840
Speaker 3: had to do with him paling. Actually, it's really strange. Yeah,

1984
01:41:09,920 --> 01:41:13,400
Speaker 3: what a what a tale. There's a lot of political

1985
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:15,639
Speaker 3: stuff happening in the middle in the middle there that

1986
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:21,320
Speaker 3: I was not fully aware of or able to wrap

1987
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:27,840
Speaker 3: my head around. But yeah, it's Bromstoker. Also an awesome name.

1988
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:32,960
Speaker 3: This story full of cool names and yeah, and then

1989
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:36,639
Speaker 3: people were shitty names that nobody remembers, like Dan the Third,

1990
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 3: Dan the Third and John and whatever the fuck whoever.

1991
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 2: Is not a bad last name, but he really, he

1992
01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:48,160
Speaker 2: really was fucking falling down on that first ass name.

1993
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, John, just don't name your kids John John Damn. Yeah.

1994
01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:58,200
Speaker 3: Isn't there also a John something that wrote vampire vampire

1995
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:04,880
Speaker 3: or vamp pull the door or whatever? Come on something

1996
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:06,240
Speaker 3: like Brohm Stoker?

1997
01:42:06,720 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, or Lord Byron. I'm a Lord Byron Truther just

1998
01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:13,480
Speaker 2: because I would rather say that name than John Polidori.

1999
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:19,160
Speaker 3: What a dweb Anyway, it's funny there there are like

2000
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:23,400
Speaker 3: conspiracy theories that like Lord Byron actually wrote Mary Shelley's

2001
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:26,920
Speaker 3: Frankenstein and like would just like let her take the credit.

2002
01:42:27,200 --> 01:42:29,439
Speaker 3: This motherfucker like didn't even write the one that he

2003
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 3: supposedly write. Lord Byron just put his cool name on things. Yeah,

2004
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:39,479
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's some Lord Byron heads who are gonna

2005
01:42:39,479 --> 01:42:44,600
Speaker 3: get mad at me for saying Byron. Yeah, the Byronians,

2006
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:46,120
Speaker 3: What a bunch of drips.

2007
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah me, I'm a Dan the Third Stand. I'm a

2008
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:51,599
Speaker 2: Dan stand baby the third.

2009
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, Dan the Third. All right, everybody? Well, Happy Halloween.

2010
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:04,680
Speaker 3: Halloween everyone listening? You know, plug Jack Attack. Yeah, you

2011
01:43:04,720 --> 01:43:10,479
Speaker 3: can find me over five days a week at a

2012
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 3: podcast called The Daily Zeitgeist that I record Miles Gray

2013
01:43:16,120 --> 01:43:20,920
Speaker 3: and we also do an NBA podcast called Miles and

2014
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:24,519
Speaker 3: Jack Got Mad Boosties. It is an official partnership with

2015
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 3: the NBA that I have to think the NBA regrets. Yeah,

2016
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:34,320
Speaker 3: just it's it's a very silly podcast. Yeah.

2017
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 2: You can also check out my partnership with the NBA,

2018
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:41,800
Speaker 2: which is has nothing to do with the sport is

2019
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:46,160
Speaker 2: an illegal gambling operations. So yeah, check that out too.

2020
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:48,840
Speaker 3: There you go. Well, thank you guys for having me on.

2021
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 3: And yeah, happy all hallows Eve, Happy Halloween. Everybody go

2022
01:43:54,920 --> 01:43:57,800
Speaker 3: out and cast some mischief, you know, mayhem.

2023
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, don't impale any one.

2024
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:03,040
Speaker 3: Do not impale. And I'm going to tell you that

2025
01:44:03,160 --> 01:44:07,360
Speaker 3: look impale if you if your heart tells you it's

2026
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:11,160
Speaker 3: the right thing to do. Yeah, yeah, well maybe yeah, yeah,

2027
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:13,200
Speaker 3: no I should say that thing. Sophie said, no, don't

2028
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:16,680
Speaker 3: do that. Ye'll do that. But it's just there's so

2029
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:19,479
Speaker 3: many people. He impaled, going to catch up.

2030
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:20,519
Speaker 1: We're ending it.

2031
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:22,160
Speaker 3: I believe it's over.

2032
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:29,639
Speaker 1: Bye. But Behind the Bastards is a production of cool

2033
01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:32,559
Speaker 1: Zone Media. Or more from cool Zone Media, visit our

2034
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:36,160
Speaker 1: website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on

2035
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:39,680
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.