WEBVTT - George Conway & Lizzie Presser 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.600 today's best minds. And Elon Musk, who is not a secretary, 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:16.760 will attend the first Trump cabinet meeting with all the secretaries. 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.360 We have such a great chow for you. Today, The 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:26.279 Atlantic's George Conway talks about illegality in the Trump administration 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:31.120 and how it will continue to dog them. Then we 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:35.560 will talk to Pro Publica's Lizzie Presser about the horrifying 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:40.400 rate of sepsis in women in Texas in the years 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:42.839 since Texas enacted its abortion ban. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:44.080 But first the news. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:49.480 So last night, Mollie, the Republicans in Congress first didn't 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.800 do so hot at passing their budget, but then got 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:54.920 it through. It looks very bad. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.440 I mean, they're so excited that they got something past. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.120 And look, let's give them a minute here. If Mike 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.800 Johnson is very bad at math and his vote counting, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:09.039 he's not known as a whipper versus Nancy Pelosi, so 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.200 it is kind of incredible that he got anything done. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.800 So perhaps that's something. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:20.240 Of course, he did make almost every Republican, with the 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:25.200 exception of Thomas Massey. Welcome to the resistance, Thomas Massey, 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.000 and I'm kidding that's ironic. Vote for eight hundred and 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:33.080 eighty billion dollars in Medicaid cuts and two hundred and 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.960 thirty billion dollars in cuts two food stamps. So, yes, 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.520 they did make a lot of cuts. That means that 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.680 people like everyone's favorite Republican Mike Lawler, who thinks he's 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.160 going to be governor of New York, he. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:47.480 Just had to vote for an eight. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.920 Hundred and eighty billion dollar cut to Medicaid. That means hospitals, 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.480 nursing homes, poor women who they don't even need to 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.760 be poor, right, women who don't have the insurance, can't 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.160 afford insurance, or can't afford insurance on the exchanges. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.520 These women, why should they. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.760 Have anything less than what Trump has wanted for them. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.600 So this is House Republicans, and they are trying to 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.000 cut a little bit from the budget so that they 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.720 can keep these tax cuts in place. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.160 Representative Drypole tweeted. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.399 Last night after this past ninety nine percent of House 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.280 Republicans voted to gut Medicaid so they can lower taxes 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.360 for the richest one percent. Yes, I am shocked to 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:36.960 know that an administration almost entirely stocked with billionaires and 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:41.000 trillionaire you know, and millionaires that that crew voted to 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.320 keep their own taxes down. And you know who's going 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.720 to suffer MAGA voters. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:51.200 Yikes. Yeah. I particularly appreciate how Thomas Massey came out 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.520 of the first vote and dog did talked about how 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.840 much it's adding to the debt, and then look at 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.119 that they got it done. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:57.560 Ah. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.720 Yes, I am very imp and not very surprised. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:03.760 So now in every one of these we turned to 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:08.440 the bizarre, which was Trump posting an unhinged AI video 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.280 of his vision for Trump Gaza, which included bearded ladies, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.400 which I did not think that the Republican constituency was 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:16.040 a big fan of. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.160 Yeah, so let's talk this through for a minute. 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.840 He is saying that he's going to make Gaza a 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:25.240 trumpy development. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.120 There are many reasons why this is bad. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.040 I don't think we should even I mean, like, obviously 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.200 there's no world in which this is actually going to 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.720 be happening. But I think there's a real game of 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.840 chicken here that Donald Trump is engaging in. I think 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.080 it's worth remembering for a minute that there were a 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.800 lot of Democratic voters who did not come out, including 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.280 like Muslim voters in Dearborn who voted for Trump with 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.880 the thinking that Trump would somehow be better on Gaza 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.360 than Democrats, And well, the Democrats made a lot of 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.800 mistakes when it comes to Middle East. I think it's 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.920 hard to imagine anything a Democrat cooked up being as 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:09.360 batshit as this. You know, these people live there, and 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.880 Donald Trump is sort of pitching this idea of just 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.039 completely kicking them out. 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.000 Yeah, nice stuff. So Maai, it's beginning to look a 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.040 lot like recession. According to some economists who are starting 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.279 to seriously worry about Trump's actions on the economy. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.839 A really good example of this is just like the 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:34.320 NIH cuts right Alabama, red state filled with trumpers, the 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:39.680 University of Alabama at Birmingham, biggest employer, the University of 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.960 Alabama system in the state. They're cutting NIH funding. Those 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.640 NIH funds will be cut. Where we'll see this is 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.160 that there'll be less money flowing into red states like Alabama. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.200 Then you cut Medicaid, so you're going to cut more 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.720 funding that goes into these red states. Then you cut 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.440 food stamps and snaps, you cut like these people have 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.960 less money to spend on food, Like, I don't think that. 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.880 One of the things that I'm not sure Elon understands 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.200 about how the economy works is that if people have 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.880 less money to spend, they spend less money. And if 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.880 they spend less money, less money goes through the economy. 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.160 And if less money goes through the economy, the economy 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.440 starts to get smaller. And when the economy starts to 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.200 get smaller, the GDP goes down. And when the GDP 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.760 goes down, you end up in a recession. Right. This 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:34.720 is a question of a growing economy versus a stalling economy. 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.200 And when you start cutting government spending, that's where you go. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.000 And look, you know a lot of people are scared 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:43.960 of Trump, so they don't want to say the truth. 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.320 One of the interesting things is there's a hedge fund 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.320 manager called Steve Cohen, and he's very, very rich. Probably 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.920 I would have a hard time imagining he's a Democrat, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.960 but maybe who knows owns The METS warns that TARA, 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.600 slowing immigration, and cost cutting could lead to a market 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:06.360 correction and or solar economic growth because cutting tears make 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.360 things more expensive, slowing immigration makes labor more expensive, so 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.600 goods are more expensive, labor's more expensive, and the government 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.680 is spending less money, all of which mean that the 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.599 economy will shrink. He suggests that while tariffs and government 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:26.040 inefficiencies post risks, their ultimate impact depends on execution. And 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.039 you know, the guy with the chainsaw, he may not 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.680 be so incredibly careful when trimming the federal budget. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.320 Yes, you know how chainsaws are known for their calculated 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:44.080 cutting and really precise, So as I would imagine what happened, 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.720 I could have predicted this headline after last week Friend 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.240 of the Show John Allen is reporting that House Republicans 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.839 have hit the brakes on town halls after blowback of 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:52.640 Trump's cuts. 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.719 Yes, who could have seen it coming, certainly not me. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.440 Turns out, if you go and you protest, and these 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:01.599 are organic protests. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:03.400 Some of them are organized, but a lot of them 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:04.080 are organic. 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:08.800 It turns out that a lot of these members of 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.160 Congress don't like it when you scream at them. And 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.520 you know, this is what happened in Trump one point 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.760 zero was that they had these town halls and people 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.880 came and screamed at them, and they did not like it. 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:20.960 And now we're seeing it again. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.360 Kind of seen it coming. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.160 George Conway is a contributor to the Atlantic. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:33.200 Welcome to Fast Politics, your friend and mine, George. 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.840 Conway, I I'm back. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.160 So here's my question for you, Legal or illegal? 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:45.240 Illegal? I just play percentages. I don't have to hear 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.160 the question. I mean, I have my own podcast and 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.520 we used to call it the latest in the legal 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.760 trunk legal news, but it's now we call it the 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.080 latest in illegal news because Pat covers it mostly. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.840 So let's talk this for so nih fund freezes legal 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:03.640 or illegal. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.360 The only way to know exactly whether something is illegal 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:11.600 or legal is to actually go to the appropriations bills 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.760 and see to what extent any of this you know 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.400 is discretionary in unwers. And I've never been working in Congress, 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.080 and I never read an appropriation's bill. But generally speaking, 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.480 if Congress has allocated money for a specific purpose, and 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.880 the language is such that it can be determined that 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.720 it is that a reasonable reading of it is that 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.760 it's mandatory that the government shall spend X, then the 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.320 government shall spend X. And it's not for the president 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:42.120 to say, well, you say I want to spend X, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.199 but I don't want to spend X, I don't want 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.240 to do that, and you can't do that. And there's 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.240 a there's a nineteen seventy five I think, a Supreme 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.560 Court case called Train versus New York, where the Supreme 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.199 Court basically says, look, if the statute says the president 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.360 has to spend money, the president has to spend money. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.360 And then on top of that, before Train versus the 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.760 United States, this law didn't apply to Train. But there's 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.040 something called the Impoundment Act that Congress passed to respond 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.160 to President Nixon's refusal to spend money on various things, 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.679 and it says, it's very very specific about the conditions 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.679 and procedures by which the president can decline to spend money. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.720 He has to jump through lots of hoops, and as 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.280 you know, he can't jump very correct. Also can't read. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.920 Wait say more about how Donald Trump can't read? 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.040 Well, what's there to say? I mean, he can't spell, 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.559 he can't read. He's got a lot of problems, but 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.959 thankfully he's got somebody who can tell him what to do. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.400 A genius who is that? Maybe? 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:42.720 Long? 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.959 What do you think you know all of these people, 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.080 or at least you know some of these people? 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:49.199 It seems like the. 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.320 Big conflict right now is the law versus Donald Trump, 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.280 and more specifically the judges and the courts. 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.559 So I want you to sort of talk us through. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.160 Where we are here with like they keep going to 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.920 the courts, they keep losing. We're seeing Mike Lee and 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.080 Charlie Kirk and some of the Rain Trust saying like, 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.280 you have to go against the judges, you have to 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:17.200 impeach the judges, you have to fight against the law. 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:18.520 Play this out for me. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.679 All right, here's my take on this. I mean, generally speaking, 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.160 there are always going to be inter ranch conflicts. There 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.120 are always happen There would be going to be circumstances 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.640 where an administration pushes an interpretation of the law that 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:33.800 others may not share and that the courts may not 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.440 ultimately share. And there's that that's a natural push and 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:43.080 pull between Congress, who writes the laws, the President, who 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.560 administers the laws and to some extent interprets them, and 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.640 then the courts, which end up have always been since 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.640 Barbary against manisl which we all learn in. 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.360 In law school. I learned about it in law. 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.040 School, Oh, high school or earlier. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.240 You speak for yourself, learned about it in law school. 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:02.760 Go on, did you run law school? 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.720 I didn't go to college. Oh I'm a degenerate gangster. 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.840 But yes, continue, okay, all right, yeah, you just drove 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:10.840 around in your limousine. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:11.600 Liberal I mean. 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:13.600 Limits, I'll have you know. 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:14.880 I have a master's degree. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.640 Like, let me know, Europe, you're a very liberal person. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.400 You have a book coming out, but everyone, absolutely everyone 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:21.080 should buy it. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.840 Yes, people love that book. Do you want to outsend 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:24.960 you a PDF if you want by? 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.400 I would love to. I would would It would make 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.600 the adat Okay, So to go back to that, I 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.520 mean so there's always been this push and pull. But 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.080 the bottom line is what has kept us going as 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:40.200 a constitutional republic for now, well for two hundred and 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.160 what thirty seven years or so whatever it was in 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:47.640 seventeen eighty nine, is that, ultimately, when the court say 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.440 the law means ex the president has complied. There have 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.560 been circumstances where presidents have threatened not to comply, like 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:00.920 Andrew Jackson saying let those courts enforce their rulings, But 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.840 generally presidents have complied. The executive branch has complied with 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.720 four orders. Now you have a president and an administration 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.679 that does not appear to give much of a shit. 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:17.520 Is an important legal term about following the laws or 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.560 following what Congress has said, and a perfect example of 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:26.000 that are these spending cases that you started the discussion with. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:31.400 Another example is doge, which relates to that, but also 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.480 writes the more fundamental notion about whether or not somebody 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:39.480 with the power that Elon Lusk is exercising is someone 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.440 who has to be appointed to an office that is 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:49.360 created by Congress. And since he's basically running around as 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.800 essentially the chief operating officer of the United States, telling 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.000 cabinet agencies what to do, the Constitution requires that somebody 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.640 exercising such authority, as essentially he's ahead of the reports 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.360 to nobody else but Trump. If anything Trump may report 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.320 to him, that person has to be sentate confirmed. And 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.920 they're ignoring that very basic element of the Constitution. They 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.520 are running roughshod over laws to see what they can 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.199 get away with, and see what they can get away 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.520 with before courts tell them to stop. And they're doing 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.679 it with such frequency and such alacrity that you have 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.559 to wonder why should they obey a court oral if 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.520 they don't care about what Congress has to say if 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.839 they don't care about the laws and the constitution. And 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.520 the constitution for example, a great example of that is 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.600 Birthright citizensp, where a constitution says, in words of one syllable, 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.480 but if you are born or naturalized in the United 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.920 States of America, you are a citizen. And there are 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.120 no exceptions to that other than four children or foreign diplomats. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.240 They don't care about the law. So what does anyone 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.640 believe that they are going to obey court orders? And 0:13:55.679 --> 0:14:00.679 when you add to that the nuts and bulls how 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:06.000 court's orders are enforced, it becomes even more showing. Because 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.000 courts do not have their They do not have soldiers, 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.760 they do not have police officers except for the Supreme Court, 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.679 which has police officers who patrol the plaza to make 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.520 sure there are people don't throws eggs at the court. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:23.600 But they have no independent way of enforcing their orders. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.760 The way that an order gets enforced is let's say 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.240 I assue you and the court orders you to stop 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.960 doing something, whatever it is, and you just keep doing it, 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.200 and so I file emotion saying, hey, Molly's not obeying 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.480 your judgment. And if you don't obey the judgment, the 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.280 court can hold you in what's called civil contempt, meaning 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.120 the court can incarcerate you until you comply with the order, 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.200 or can find you one thousand dollars a day, and 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.760 sometimes they even have these exponentially increasing fines two thousand 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.880 to second day, four eight and so on to compa 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.120 tell you to obey the court order. But here's the rub. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.880 What mechanism does the court use to enforce those orders 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.680 to haul you in, to arrest you on the street 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:15.000 or at your house, or to attach your property. It's 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.240 something called the United States Marshal Service. And they are 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.480 fine people, and they are sworn to uphold the law 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.240 and to obey the court orders and to assist the courts. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.560 But they are an agency of the United States Department 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.760 of Justice. They are part of the executive branch. The 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.320 President gets to say who the head of the United 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.520 States Marshall Service is. Then the Attorney General gets to 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.360 tell the head of the United States Marshal Service what 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.560 to do. So what if the order comes down saying 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.800 that any court orders that are directed at or contempt 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:55.600 orders whatever that are directed at members of this administration 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.280 shall be referred to the head of the United States 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.600 Marshall Service. And I suppose, you know, the head of 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.920 the United States Marshall Service is a you know, a 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.000 friend of Cash Bettels and Dan Bungino's and completely beholden 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.120 the Trump and he decides, oh, here's a nice contempt 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.320 order against Elon Musk. I'm not going to give it 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:15.880 to a United States Marshall to go out and force 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.520 and to arrest must Okay, So there is no mechan 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.479 no now, and it's going to be hard now. Obviously 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.480 the point that others have made, I've been having this 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.320 discussion of a lot of ladies as well. The marshals 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.960 really want to obey orders. They want obey they have 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.880 they've sworn to all the constitutions. But but if nobody 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.480 tells them, here's the order you're going to enforce, and 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:37.520 nobody gives it to them, who's going to tell them, 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.200 who's going to go out there and do it? They're 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.440 just there is no mechanism by which we can force 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:48.680 the government, the executive branch to obey court orders at 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.080 the end of the day, which is why if they 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.680 don't obey the courts, the only thing that we've got 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.400 going for us is to flood the streets with people. 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.600 What does it mean to flood this treats? 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.640 So when will we know, because what you're talking about 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.840 is a constitutional crisis. We're not there yet, but we 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.840 probably will be soon. So when will we know we. 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:11.760 Are in a constitutional crisis? 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:16.240 Well, we are in a constitutional crisis in a sense already. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.600 It's kind of like you're going from defcon. Was it 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.200 five to one or one to five? I don't know 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.719 what order it is, but we are in the early 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:28.360 stages of this, and I do believe that the government 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:33.600 is already not complying with court orders by saying, oh, gosh, 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.640 we don't know who's running doors. They did they play 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.879 a game for a few days, and they are saying, Okay, 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:42.879 we're going to obey this court order. And then it 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.720 turns out the right hand doesn't know what the left 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.280 hand is doing, and they say, ooh, somebody else was 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.600 doing this. We weren't able to turn that off. They're 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.200 using the fact that the government is big and balky 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:55.920 to kind of, you know, play like a four corners 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.440 defense on the courts, which is a dangerous play because 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.439 it really pisses off federal job is. We're at that 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.919 level of potential defiance, which can be a mistake for incompetence, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.879 but also it's not like they're trying that hard. The 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.280 true constitutional crisis that you're asking about occurs when the 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.800 executive branch basically says, fuck you, okay, we don't agree 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.400 with that order, and we think that's an incorrect interpretation 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.040 of the law, or we think that's an incorrect interpretation 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:30.080 of the constitution, or the president, because he's president, is 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.960 the ultimate arbiture of what the constitution is, not the courts. 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.200 And this is something that we are starting to hear 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.399 people in and around the administration say, for example, J. D. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.280 Vance said just the other day, basically, we should stop 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.800 obeying court orders and basically doing Andrew Jackson sentence, tell 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.000 the courts that you go force your awarders. And I 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.760 think the degree first of all, psychologically, he doesn't have 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:58.000 any respect for the law. 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:00.200 Trump right, No, No, Certainly. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.880 Musky's going out there now threatening saying these judges all 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.440 need to him be impeached. So they're threatening the judges. 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.240 And Trump hates the judicial system because the judicial system, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.399 you know, puts people in jail who are criminals, and 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.960 he is a criminal, and he almost got put in jail. 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:20.320 He would be soon in jail if he hadn't gotten 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:25.240 that lucky draw in Florida with that crazy judge, Judge Cannon. 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:30.399 So it is difficult for me, and I hope I'm wrong. 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.960 I've never more hope to be wrong than I am 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.040 now about what I'm about to say. But I believe 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:41.119 that it is inevitable that this administration will openly start 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:45.639 to find court orders, and once that happens, we are lost. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.760 As a there is no rule of law. If the 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.920 government can't bail, why the hell should anybody else? Why 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.960 should we pay our taxes? Right, that's the problem we face. 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.040 And let's go down this road for a minute. 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:01.560 Because Janet Mals, the governor of May, in a meeting 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.600 with Trump and the governors, and he said, you know 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.159 you're not going to get federal funds if you let 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.920 the one trans kid go in the sports. 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.240 Then we know that there are any trans kids in 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.080 the state of Maine playing like college and Caa says 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.920 there were only six in the entire country playing NC. 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.720 Probably not, but anyway, the point is, so he says, 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:24.399 you're not going to get any federal funds, and she 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.280 actually said some the effect of, like, maybe you're not 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:28.640 going to get any federal. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.119 Funds, she said, she said, we'll see you in court. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:31.960 Right, she said that. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.359 But she also said later on, like the question of like, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.360 should we all be paying federal taxes if the federal 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:42.520 government is going to withhold aid, that's a road that 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:43.800 we could be going down. 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.280 Yeah, I mean, I certainly would not advocate that that's 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.200 a massive violation of law. But on the other hand, 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.399 if you have a government that has basically forsaken the 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:57.000 rule of law, and like, you know, if tomorrow the 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:00.359 government said we will have no further elections, wants to 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.040 destremantle the irs, who's going to fucking after anybody? And 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.240 when that happens, not only do you have a collapse 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:13.959 of the civil order, the economic effects will be absolutely 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.680 devastating to the world. Who's going to buy a United 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:19.000 States Treasury bond? 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:20.919 Yeah, well that's a real question. 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.560 We don't know how bad this. I mean, this could 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.600 get really really bad unless somebody over there wakes up 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.080 and realizes that they're playing with fire. But they're all 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.280 you know, these people are psychos. 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.200 So are there any grown ups in the room? 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.760 Is there anyone in there who would say, maybe we 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:41.320 don't want to crush the federal government. 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:47.440 There may be this fellow Scott descent is by all accounts, 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.880 maybe there's more to him. I mean, anybody who takes 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:52.960 a job in this administration you have to have some 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:57.560 doubt on it. But the guy understands how the financial 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.479 markets work and the global economic system works. By all accounts, 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.080 he's a very intelligent. But you tell Trump this, and 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.520 Trump's gonna say, well, you know, Trump doesn't think he 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.960 has to run for anything anymore, even like to serve 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:15.080