1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy Tracy. We have had 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: a lot of request to talk about Crampas lately, we 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: have this year, and it's super cool, but he's become 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: really high profile, so lots of people already do know 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: a good bit about him. We are going to honor 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: those requests and we're still going to talk about Crampas 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: in this episode, but we're also going to talk about 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: some other non Santa holiday entities that are or have 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: been popular in various cultures at one time or another. 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: And while I want to talk about the Santa Bot 13 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: from Futurama, that is not really a cultural tradition. Uh. 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: Anybody who watches Futurama knows that it's a delight in 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: that particular robot as a killer. Uh. Same goes for 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: the ice Cream Bunny and the Martians that Santa Claus 17 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: battled in that one film, and the Heat Miser and 18 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: any of the ones from your childhood shows that you loved, 19 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: like those are all great characters anyway, So we are 20 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: not talking about any of those, even though they're wonderful. 21 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: We're looking at actual, actual, historically based cultural traditions here, 22 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: and because there were so many of these figures where 23 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: we can't do it all in one part, so we're 24 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: gonna have two parts on this one. Today we're covering three, 25 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: and then there will be several more in the next 26 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: episode for a nice holiday week of holiday characters from 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,279 Speaker 1: around the world. Yeah, it's a little on the peppi 28 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: your side, not so much with the sadness, not so 29 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: much with My Solder Children episode or last year's on 30 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: the Christmas Tree Ship, which was just crushing. So unless 31 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: you've just not been in front of the television or 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: the computer or anything, you've probably heard about Crampas. He's 33 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: a horn terrifying creature that puts a much more sinister 34 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: spin on Christmas than St. Nicholas, for sure. Yeah. Uh, 35 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: And now Crampus has become so popular that there are 36 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: parades in cities throughout Europe and the US every year. 37 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: He's really caught on. Atlanta has a Crampus parade every year. Uh. 38 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: And this year there is even a movie, which I 39 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: think is part of the reason so many people have 40 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: been emailing us about it and the rise in popularity 41 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: of Grampus in the US is often credited to the 42 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: desire for an antidote to the commercialization of Christmas, but 43 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: most people, particularly non Europeans, do not seem to know 44 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: his actual origin story. They know what he is, they 45 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: don't really have a sense of the background. So Crampus 46 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: and Austrian culture is sort of the assistant to St. Nicholas. 47 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: So whereas St. Nick is the harbinger of good tidings 48 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: and gifts who comes on December six, Crampus is the 49 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: holiday visitor you're a lot more likely to get if 50 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: you have been ill behaved. He comes on the night 51 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: of December five, which is compass knocked. Yes. And in 52 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: case anyone is confused about the December sixth thing not 53 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: being December twenty, the day we celebrate Christmas, that is 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: the feast of St. Nicholas normally, so not everyone moves 55 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: it to that Saturnalia spot on the uh. Crampas is 56 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: a punisher. He carries sticks to beat unruly children, and 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: the really bad children gets stuffed in his sack. Uh. 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: It's sort of the ultimate be good or else mythology. UH. 59 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: In terms of like holiday threats to keep kids in line. 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: Those kids that are in the sack, they get dragged 61 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: back to Crampus's lair, where they are tortured or eaten 62 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: or both. So much bigger threat than you'll get coal 63 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: in your story. Coal is not delightful, but being beaten 64 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: and then consumed by a horrible beast is a little 65 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: more terrifying. He didn't start out as a Christmas creature 66 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: at all, though his origin is actually Norse. He's the 67 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: son of Hell, the female god of the underworld. That 68 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: means Crampas's grandfather is Loki. He's traditionally part of a 69 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: pre Germanic pagan tradition in Austria, and that name Crampus, 70 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: of course, also has nothing to do with Christmas. Is 71 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: a sidebar on that name. I highly recommend everyone to 72 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: go searching, and perhaps will link to it in our 73 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: show notes for the the clip of Kristoph Vaults on 74 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: Jimmy Fallon describing what Crampus is. No one says anything 75 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: better than Christoph Vults to begin with, and when he 76 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: talks about this, there's both delight and glee, and he 77 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: takes a certain, uh real pleasure, it seems, in telling 78 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: this tale, and particularly saying the word Crampus, So I 79 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: highly recommend it. You say, it's so much more beautifully 80 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: than I'd even like Crampus, only because I watched Christoph 81 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: Vults do it thirty two times yesterday, because it is 82 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: charming and I just adore him. So that name is 83 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: derived from the German word for claw, which is cramping, 84 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: And it's easy to see why that moniker would be 85 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: chosen when you look at Crampus, as Tracy mentioned, he's 86 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: got horns, he's hairy, those horns are massive, and he 87 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: has this terrifying demon face, and he's sort of like 88 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: a big walking claw ready to snatch children. This whole 89 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: demonic presence was almost as undoing. In the twelfth century. 90 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: Crampus and his demon face were deemed a little too 91 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: devilish for the Catholic Church, and that organization attempted to 92 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: ban Crampus and all activities related to him. But instead 93 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: of doing away with Crampas, I've given up all attempts 94 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: that saying it the way Hollydas people just looped him 95 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: into the celebration of St. Nicholas on December six instead. Yeah, 96 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it certainly didn't happen magically and quickly like that. 97 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: But it it is sort of a co mingling of 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: the two cultural traditions to come up with this this 99 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: weird marriage. And from there the cramp the Crampas tradition 100 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: grew and became more and more part of winter holiday tradition. 101 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: So Crampas knocked parades became popular December fifth events, with 102 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: many young men donning the guys of the scary but 103 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: fun punisher of bad children to walk the streets menacingly. 104 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: I read one report that was basically like, Yeah, these 105 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: guys get together in their first suits, they do a 106 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: few shots, get a little drunk, and then they put 107 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: on their masks and their horns and they just run 108 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: through the streets sort of playfully terrifying people like they 109 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: messed with everybody. That I used my power of editorial 110 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: director to nicely ask Robert Lamb, that's stuff to blow 111 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: your mind. Uh, if he could write an article about 112 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: crampas first this year, And he did um And one 113 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: of the things that he wrote about is that there's 114 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: a fine line sometimes between like gleeful mischief and deliberately 115 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: horrifying small children. So he was once again under fire 116 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties when the Christian Social Party outlawed 117 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: him following the Austrian Civil War once again because it's 118 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: the saying he's the personification of evil. By that point, 119 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: Crampus would become a lot more popular than St. Nick himself, 120 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: which is also something that that Robert talks about in 121 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: his article about how a lot of times in parades 122 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: that include both sat Nick and and Crampus, they're like 123 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: vastly outnumbered. They are way more Crampuses than St. Nick's. Yeah, 124 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: and for much of the twentieth century, uh, there were, 125 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: you know, various other affections that have kind of tried 126 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: to sweep him under the rug a little bit. But 127 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: so he was on the d L. He really wasn't 128 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: a big part of holiday celebrations for a while. But 129 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: then in the late twentieth century that tradition was really revived. 130 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't like it ever completely went away, but it 131 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: really got like a big resurgence of interest and it 132 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,679 Speaker 1: continues to gain steam. But even in the modern era, 133 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: Carampus has been targeted for the trauma that some parents 134 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: believe that he caused to children. Child psychologist named Max 135 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: Friederick raised some concerns about the scares that Crampus gave 136 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and six, and then more recently 137 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, as Austria welcome Syrian 138 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: and Iraqi refree refugees, the country has sort of made 139 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: efforts to educate the newcomers um about what this scary 140 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: seeming beast is all about and now it's all in fun. Yeah, 141 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: there's really sort of a little bit of an image clarification. 142 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: It's not so much a makeover as just community like 143 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: good pr explaining like no, no, no, this you are 144 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: not actually going to get stolen away because I can 145 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: imagine a child fleeing a situation and going somewhere and 146 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: then at this time of year that's their introduction to 147 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: a new culture like that would be horrified by the 148 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: way you're going to be kidnapped and eaton. So they've 149 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: they've really done a lot of outreach to try to 150 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: explain like no, no, this is a tradition and it's 151 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: all in fun and everyone is safe and there will 152 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: be candy. It just looks a little scary, so, uh, 153 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: just kind of a good way to manage something like that, 154 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: I think, and hopefully that's been effective. Uh, We're going 155 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: to talk next about a fun Italian figure that I 156 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: really love that we're going to have a quick word 157 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 1: from one of the great sponsors that keeps his show going. 158 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: You may not think about the two words I'm about 159 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: to say very much, and you may not even grasp 160 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: their gravity and how important they are. But those two 161 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: words are credit score. And they may not be the 162 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: most exciting words to say, And maybe you don't want 163 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: to think about it, but you really should. 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This is 198 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: an old hag named la bea fauna who visits riding 199 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: a broom on the night of January five and in 200 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: the wee hours of January six, so at Epiphany, that is, 201 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: in Christian religious terms, the day that commemorates when the 202 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: magi got to see you weren't Christ child, and thus 203 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: that was the manifestation of Christ to the Gentiles. But 204 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: on first glance, particularly for those of us that did 205 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: not grow up with Laba fauna and she's sometimes also 206 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: just called fauna, she doesn't really seem to fit any 207 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: of the traditional religious mythology, but her name is infected 208 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: derivation of the word epifania, which is the Italian word 209 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: for epiphany, and in many ways she has a lot 210 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: in common with Santa Claus. So Italian children right but 211 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: right Buffana letters in the weeks leading up to her visit, 212 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: letting her know what's on their wish lists to ensure 213 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: that she graces them with gifts instead of coal. They're 214 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: also in their best behavior. Families leave out a glass 215 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: of wine and some sausage and broccoli for a La 216 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: Bafana when they go to bed on January five. I 217 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: would be down with that meal. Whine shuffling children hang 218 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: stockings for her to fill, and she often comes in 219 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: through the chimney, so there's a lot of parallels there. Yeah, 220 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: it makes me laugh that you thought that was a 221 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: good meal, because one of the writers that was writing 222 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: about this tradition was saying, like, that's a much healthier, 223 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: better option than what Santa usually gets breaks wine at 224 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: every house. I don't know that you could continue that claim, 225 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: but well, it depends on how out how heavy that sausage, right, 226 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: balance in all things, But if you're only eating cookies 227 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: and milk all night, that's kind of a recipe for 228 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: a number of medical issues. And while this may all 229 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: seem distant, as I kind of mentioned earlier, from the 230 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: story of Christ's birth, there's actually Italian in the mythology. 231 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: So Lava Fauna, according to legend, was a widow who 232 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: had also lost her child, living alone in the Italian 233 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: hillside when Jesus was born, but Fauna saw the bright 234 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: light in the sky that's associated in Christianity with the 235 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: birth of Christ, so the Star of Bethlehem, and initially 236 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: she ignored this light, but then the three Wise Men 237 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: stopped by her house on their journey to find the 238 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: newborn son. Of God, and after enjoying her hospitality, they 239 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: invited her to come along with them. Initially, she declined 240 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: to come along, but then she reconsidered after they left 241 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: and decided that because she loved children, she would catch 242 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: up to the wise men and travel along with them 243 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: after all, and carrying some baked and her broom, which 244 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: she was bringing in case. Mary wanted her to help 245 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: out by tidying up the major but Fanna left her 246 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: home but she could not find the wise men. She 247 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: was trying to catch up to them, but she couldn't 248 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: and she became lost. And angels appeared in some tellings 249 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: of the story when she was just near exhaustion, and 250 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: they used magic to enchant Baffauna's broom so that she 251 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: could ride it. And so the kindly old woman continued 252 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: her search, riding her broom for the baby Jesus. She 253 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: never found him, which made me so sad, But her 254 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: search continues, and every epiphany she rides a broom looking 255 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: for the child. And because she loves all children, she 256 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: leaves gifts for all that she visits, and traditionally the 257 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: gifts that she leaves are reminders of the story of Jesus. 258 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: There are some other variations on the Labba Funa story. 259 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: If you read various accounts, including ways that her child 260 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: or children, there's again as a mythology, there's some details 261 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: that shift a lot, uh, including the ways that her 262 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: offspring died and and so her intent is actually to 263 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: give her deceased kids belongings to Mary's newborn Uh. But 264 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: though all of these stories center on Laba Fauna deciding 265 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: to go see the infant Christ, in reality her roots 266 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: are in paganism, which is a case for many traditions. Yes, 267 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: and some old pagan rituals, an elderly woman would be 268 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: burned in the center of a town to symbolize the 269 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: end of one year and the beginning of another. Celtic 270 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: ceremonies in the Alps involved wicker puppets similarly burned to 271 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: represent the death of the old and the restoration and 272 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: renewal of the new year, and European folklore in various 273 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: locations has considered the time between Christmas and the Epiphany 274 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: as it kind of merged uh the Christianity along with 275 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: their their pagan rituals, as sort of a time of 276 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: which is in magic, with the Epiphany considered the most 277 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: magical night of the year. So Bafana ties into this 278 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: idea of magic overlapping uh and the idea of renewal 279 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: in the new years. So if you did the ven 280 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: diagram of Christianity and Paganism, that's kind of right where 281 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: Laba Fauna lands. She's further linked to the new year 282 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: in her association with the ancient Roman goddess of the 283 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: new year Strina, also seen as Strenia and Strenua, and 284 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: this also provides kind of an alternate origin straight to 285 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: her her name as instead being rooted in the word 286 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: but Strina, which were gifts that were linked to that goddess. 287 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, I love her. I love when you see 288 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: pictures of of women dressed as Befauna during Christmas celebrations 289 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: in Italy because I love witchy things anyway, like this, 290 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: The the iconography of the classic witch is one that 291 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: I have been in love with since I was a child. 292 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: So to kind of ploff that in the middle of 293 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: Christmas is like, that is my kind of Christmas. I 294 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: love her sweetness to it. I knew nothing about this 295 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: until you told me, and I was like that, but no, 296 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: I love that. That's the best idea it's very sweet. 297 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: It's um as it's been adopted and evolved, it's become 298 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: this nice grand motherly figure that you know, cares about 299 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: kids and comes with candy and kind of love. I 300 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: love it. Next we are going to talk about center Class, 301 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: and my first introduction to center Class was actually through 302 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: my husband, who is not Dutch, but for a while 303 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: he worked for a weather company that was doing whether 304 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: it's like the Weather Channel but for the Netherlands at 305 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: the time, I don't think it exists anymore, and they 306 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: had to do center Clause coverage around the holidays. So 307 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: he was the first person that told me this story, 308 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: and some elements of it left me agog did they 309 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: Did they track center Claus like Norad track Santa? They did, uh, 310 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: But because he hangs around for a lot longer, it 311 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: was a much lengthier tracking situation than a one night deal. So, 312 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: as we just alluded to, the Netherlands twist on St. 313 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: Nicholas is called center Class and comes with some baggage 314 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: which we will talk about. But first we are going 315 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: to give more of a rundown of the center Class tradition. 316 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: So while December six is the main event for center Class, 317 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: just as for St. Nicholas. In other cultures, his holiday 318 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: journey starts well before that in November. So traditionally on 319 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: a morning in mid November, Center Claus arrives usually in 320 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: Amsterdam is the big one via steamboat. He comes from Spain. 321 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: And for this large one in Amsterdam, he normally appears 322 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: on the Amstelle River at the docks and docks a 323 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: little while later, so they take time. They cover him 324 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: coming up the river in his steamboat and he's then 325 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: greeted by a public official, usually such as the mayor, 326 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: and then Center Class mon mounts a white or sometimes 327 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: gray horse to parade through the city and that how 328 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: he comes from Spain. Like I mean, this is like 329 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: a story that a child is telling me. It's like 330 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: a penny cartoon, you remember those from Phewous playouts. It is. 331 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: So the parade normally starts a little afternoon and it 332 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: takes a couple of hours traveling through the city. In 333 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: addition to Center Class, there are brass bands, floats, clowns 334 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: and peten peton or Center classes helpers and we're coming 335 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: back to them in a little bit. At the end 336 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: of the parade, Center Class addresses the children and parents 337 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: of the Netherlands and they're often smaller Center Class parades 338 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: held all over the Netherlands, and this mid November arrival 339 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: is actually the start of Center Class season. So from 340 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: this point until December six, Center Class and all his 341 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: helpers travel throughout the Netherlands. They visit schools and hospitals, 342 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: they do some charity work. They also keep an eye 343 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: out to check on the behavior of children, even listening 344 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: at chimneys to see how kids are behaving when they 345 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: can't see Center Claus watching. And during this time, children 346 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: leave shoes out, often accompanied by carrots or hay for 347 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: Center Claus's horse, in the hopes that the Peton will 348 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: leave them candy, ginger, biscuits, oranges and small gifts in 349 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: their shoes, and Center Claus and the Peton will sometimes 350 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: visit houses multiple times during this November to December six period, 351 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: so kids will sometimes get like little small gifts during 352 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: that time multiple times, and then the big event is 353 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: still the sixth, though this elongated celebration of Center Class 354 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: started in the nineteen thirties. Before that, the Dutch st 355 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: Nick simply came in on December six to bring gifts, 356 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: but now there's a whole shopping and celebrating block of 357 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: the calendar that's heralded by this November arrival of Center Class. 358 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: So it's not entirely unlike Thanksgiving signaling the official start 359 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: of the holiday shopping season in the US, even though 360 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: some places put that more in like August. Now. We 361 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: talked about that on our previous podcast that we used 362 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: to host, the other called Pop Stuff Holiday Creek. We 363 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: did I'm the only person that it doesn't bother apparently, 364 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: and I had to laugh. It's one of those things too. 365 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Again I will throw my friends under the bus. But 366 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: when you're telling people things that you're working on and 367 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: they respond in ways for their like that's weird, that's 368 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: just commercialism to have Center Class come in November, And 369 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, do you not watch the Macy's things like 370 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: don't don't think of it, like that's strange, and other 371 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: just look at parallel to what we all experience. So 372 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: then after at the end of this season, on the 373 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: night of December five, Center Claus rides his horse throughout 374 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: the country, delivering gifts and treats, sometimes a little uh 375 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: sugar retreats in burlap sacks, but that is for the 376 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: good children. The bad children get carted away by the 377 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: peton and taken to Spain. What a terrible fate. I'm thinking, like, 378 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: maybe I'm bad. I get a vacation. And just as St. 379 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: Nicholas has Crampas has crampus in Austria Center, Claus has 380 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: a counterpart who deals with unruly children, and that is 381 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: where the baggage that we mentioned earlier comes in. We're 382 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: going to talk about that baggage and some of the 383 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: battles waging culturally around it, right after we have a 384 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: word from one of our fabulous sponsors. So you and 385 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: I are currently recording a super marathon session of all 386 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: of the podcast episodes we are running through the end 387 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: of the year, which means we've been doing a ton 388 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: of research online, a ton of looking stuff up, a 389 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: ton of trying to find lots and lots of cool 390 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: things to talk about, which can be a little tiring. 391 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: It's a little hard to sort through all the stuff. 392 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: It can be. 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So back 418 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: to the peten the helper's specifically a helper named Varta Pete. 419 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,239 Speaker 1: Varta Pete translates to Black Peter, and he and the 420 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: other Peton in these uh center class celebrations often appear 421 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: in blackface. Tradition of the center class parade and his 422 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: Moorish slave, Black Pete started in the late eighteen hundreds, 423 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: and at that time black face would not have really 424 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: raised people's eyebrows. And for a long time, it kind 425 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: of a surprisingly long time, really, it continued not to 426 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: raise anyone's eyebrows. The solidification of this center Clous story 427 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: is sometimes credited to a book that was published in 428 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties, so a little before this really got a 429 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: big swell in the late eighteen hundreds. In that book 430 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: is titled St. Nicholas and His Servant, and it's written 431 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: by Jan Shankman. And this is the first known writing 432 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: that clearly outlines all of the traditions of center Claus, 433 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: including that steamboat and the horse riding, and of course 434 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: Black Peter. And while there are some mentions of center 435 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: Claus in earlier literature that mentioned a servant of color 436 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: accompanying him, this is really when the story of a 437 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: Moorish slave was written into the narrative in clear terms 438 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: that we know of. But even though the story of St. 439 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: Nick and his servant was published in the mid eighteen hundreds, 440 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 1: the mythology was still evolving into the twentieth century. Uh 441 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: The name, for example, was not uniform for some time, 442 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 1: and written accounts naming St. Nicholas servant include all kinds 443 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: of different names. Sometimes he was just named Yawn or Pete, 444 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: which were common servant names. In nineteen eleven, a picture 445 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: book was published with some of the most popular images 446 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: of St. Nick's dark skinned slave dressed in seventeenth century garb, 447 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: and at this point there was just one Pete. So 448 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: we've mentioned that he comes a lot of times in 449 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: parades with Peton, with many of them, but at this 450 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: point there was just the one in the narrative. By 451 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, this portrayal was really cemented in the 452 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: cultural consciousness, and part of the problem that people point 453 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: to later on is that he was really portrayed as 454 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: a half wit. He only spoke broken Dutch, and he 455 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: wasn't really very bright at all. Far too, Pete evolved further, 456 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: eventually becoming less of a buffoon and more lovable, although 457 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: he was still portrayed as a slave or servant to 458 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: center class, and some characterizations of him indicated that his 459 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: black skin was actually the result of sit coming from 460 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: going down chimneys and not a difference in his race. However, 461 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: he had kinky he still had kinky, curly hair, and 462 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: his clothes were clean despite of this, despite the that 463 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: was purportedly blackening his skin. Yeah, if you look at 464 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: picture of him even now, it's like looking at sort 465 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: of standard black face that we've seen throughout the years, 466 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: where you know, the lips are drawn very big in red, 467 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: and then the skin is obviously painted a very even 468 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: tone and the curly wig. It's clearly a heavy exaggeration 469 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: of racist stereotypes, is how you would describe that in 470 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: a center completely uh zwarta Pete went from being just 471 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: the one servant to a whole horde of peton over 472 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: the years, and people have been dressing in black face 473 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: to disguise themselves as peten and celebrate the winter holidays 474 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: for decades. Like many people will dress up at the 475 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: pete and go out party. Uh. During this this stretch 476 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: of time and Swart Peton has appeared on postcards and 477 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: other memorabilia, and these pets has really been a well 478 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: loved part of the festivities. Until nine that's the first 479 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: time on record that's someone This was a woman named 480 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: mc grin. Bauer brought up the idea that Zwarte Pete 481 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: was inappropriate, pointing out that while slavery had long been 482 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: abolished in the Netherlands center classes, companion was still being 483 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: represented as a slave. And it really did take a 484 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: little while for a more widespread discussion about the black 485 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: faced zore to Pete to happen. And even so, this 486 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: is an issue that continues to the moment we are 487 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: recording this in December, to be hotly debated has literally yesterday. Yeah, 488 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at our show notes this time, 489 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: you will see things that are coming out sort of 490 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: right here at the beginning of December when we're recording. 491 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: So while some claim that the image of Pete is 492 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,719 Speaker 1: harmless and in good fun, many others have cried foul 493 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: and said that it's flat out racism in the battle 494 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: between those who wish to hold onto this tradition and 495 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: something that they really think of quite lovingly from their 496 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: childhood and those who wish to do away with the 497 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 1: symbol and the inherent negative messages attached to it. Really 498 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: rages on. And I'm not downplaying, I'm not I'm not 499 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: exaggerating when I say it rages on. People are very 500 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: angry on both sides of this equation, definite, both sides. Anger. 501 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: Protests against Zwart Pete have really grown in recent years, 502 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: and in the u N Human Rights Commission looked at 503 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: those of our to Pete issue. The u N HRC 504 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: Committee Chair Verene Shepherd of Jamaica made a statement before 505 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: the committee met saying that quote this is a throwback 506 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: to slavery and that in the twenty one century this 507 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: practice should stop. Additionally, an application filed by the St. 508 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: Nicholas Society of the Netherlands to have Center Clouds included 509 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: on the UNESCO List of in Agible Heritage was returned 510 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: to them. Uh it was denied for the moment until 511 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: something could be done about this problem of Zante Pete. 512 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: There has perhaps surprisingly been huge pushback in the Netherlands 513 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: and many continue to include Artapee and their celebrations. Just 514 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, the Dutch Embassy in Camera Australia 515 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: held a center class parade with a full complement of 516 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: black faced attendance. Yeah, that brought up a lot of 517 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: news coverage and again anger on both sides. People really 518 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: defend their desire to include this thing that they loved 519 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: when they were a kid, and to them it's a 520 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: character they loved. They aren't really willing to see the 521 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: other side. I don't know how to fix it. Everybody 522 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: has this. This is a battle we fight in the 523 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: US all the time of tradition versus like changing social values. Well, 524 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: and the I actually was really interested to learn about 525 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: this in the outline because like the United States history 526 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: has a as to my knowledge, a much more lengthy 527 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: and and deep history of minstrel shows that had characters 528 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: in black face that came along like during the Civil 529 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: War and afterwards, and we're deeply offensive and like I 530 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: have seen people say, well, you can't apply things from 531 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: American culture to these other cultures and realizing that that's 532 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: not what's happening here. Yeah, what's happening here. Yeah, it's 533 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: it's very fascinating. And what's really interesting is they're taking 534 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: sort of an interesting approach. There are some some interesting 535 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: efforts being made to try to soften the black Peter 536 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: issue and transition the character to a less offensive version, 537 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: but still find a way to include this part of 538 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: holiday traditions that so many people love and they're not 539 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: quite ready to part with so uh. Pets, for example 540 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: in Amsterdam have been encourage that if they are going 541 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: to do the black face, to have smaller lips, to 542 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: not be quite the level of caricature racial stereotyping that 543 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: it has been. They're not allowed to wear gold earrings, 544 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: and they're not supposed to be doing those curly haired wigs. 545 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: Hair should be softer. And an additional transformation, uh, including 546 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: the painting of peats in many colors, which they tried 547 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: at one point to do this mythology where they the 548 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: peats were coming to the US in one story and 549 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: they passed through a rainbow and it colored them all 550 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: different colors, and a lot of people hated it and 551 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: got really mad about it. Um, But they're trying to 552 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: incorporate that and suggest that maybe we should do other 553 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: colors and that way it's still this interesting, colorful character. 554 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: And I use that in the not racially loaded sense, 555 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: colorful character uh that you can still love and it's 556 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: still similar to what you had when you were a kid, 557 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: but it is not kind of connected to all of 558 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: those racial issues that it currently has, So that plan 559 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: to change the peats to different colors and continue to 560 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: kind of switch up the image slowly and transition. It 561 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: is expected to be integrated into celebrations in Amsterdam over 562 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: the course of the next several years. The center class 563 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: legend dates back to the fourth century, when Nicholas, the 564 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: Bishop of Mira came to came from modern day Turkey, 565 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: and there's some fuzziness about how exactly center Claus ended 566 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: up making his home in Spain. The most likely story 567 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: is that when Spain ruled land in the Netherlands in 568 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: the sixteenth and seventeenth century, the lore shifted to make 569 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: this uh most benevolent holiday figure to become a son 570 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: of Spain. And now I kind of put that bit 571 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: at the end because it seems like, you know, we're 572 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: once again in an evolution of center Claus, at least 573 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: in terms of his relationship with his now friend rather 574 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: than slave. That's another shift that's happened. He's a friend 575 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: of center Claus, he's not his servant. But we're gonna 576 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: be watching history unfold in real time in the coming 577 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: years around what's gonna and we'll see what happens. As 578 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: every culture of als, there are going to be elements 579 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: of iconography and much loved things that are no longer 580 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: really appropriate. But there's that argument always of you don't 581 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: want to throw everything out of a tradition because some 582 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: people still love it and it has a good meaning 583 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: to them. But at the same time, you can't just 584 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: let things stay forever stagnating something that is maybe not 585 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: so great well, And a lot of depictions that I 586 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: have seen of Zartepete remind me of salt shakers you 587 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: would find in an antique store that are from the 588 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: forties that are of fancies today, and like you could 589 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: have that in a museum in in a display that 590 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: talks about like the cultural signifiers of slavery and how 591 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: they came to be part of this this everyday life. 592 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: For a lot of people, you would not want to 593 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: have that on your dinner table if you were, uh, 594 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, progressively minded person. Yeah. Yeah, So, like I said, 595 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: we get to kind of watch history unfold before us, 596 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: because while it's happening in the present day, this will 597 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: be a history that people talk about for a long time, 598 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: I imagine, because it is an interesting example of how 599 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: a culture is trying to find a way to deal 600 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: with this clash of of tradition and modern values. So 601 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: from that point of view, I'm excited about it, just 602 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: kind of watching how it's going to play out. I 603 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of wish we had that listener mail about about 604 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: the college mascot being the Rebels. Oh yeah, and there 605 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: are several more interesting characters that are celebrated as part 606 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: of winter holidays around the world, and we are going 607 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: to talk about those, but not this time. So next 608 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: time around there will be more holiday fun because there 609 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: are more characters to talk about. Some of them are 610 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: delightfully kookie. But first I have listener mail. I have 611 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: three pieces of listener mail trade see Okay, I know 612 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: that might sound extreme, but I feel bad because we 613 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: get a day sometimes and we only read two a week, 614 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: and I feel bad because there are lots of good 615 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: ones that don't always get place they have. So I 616 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: have four or five things in my inbox that are 617 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: things that where I want to answer that. And now 618 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: the thing that someone has asked was asking about has passed. Yeah, 619 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to go on a road trip? Do you 620 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: have suggestions for this place that I'm going? And I'll be, oh, yeah, 621 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,280 Speaker 1: I want to answer that, and then oh, that person's 622 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: road trip is gone. I feel slightly better knowing that 623 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: happens to YouTube in my head. You never dropped that ball, 624 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: But I feel like I just dropped the ball on 625 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: the ground and end up somewhere else. Then I'm embarrassed, 626 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: and sometimes I write, I'm like, I'm so sorry I 627 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 1: didn't send you any ideas before. We're not we always 628 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: say this, We're not ignoring anybody on purpose. There's just 629 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: there is definitely a volume to human time ratios that's 630 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: a little bit difficult to navigate. Me read all of them. 631 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 1: We read all of them so much for sending email. 632 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: We do read all of them. Yeah, so for this one, uh, 633 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: like I said, I have three none, No, none of 634 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: them are terribly long. The first one is from our 635 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: listener Matt, and he is writing about our Declaration of 636 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: Sentiments episode and he says, Dear Holly and Tracy, I'm 637 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: a long time listener and a huge fan. I honestly 638 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: think I learned more from the podcast than when I 639 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: learned than what I learned in my u S History class. 640 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: I'm currently a junior in high school. I'm writing in 641 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: regards to your most recent episode, The Road to the 642 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: Declaration of Sentiments. You mentioned Lucretia Mott, and I squealed 643 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: with joy as you mentioned she attended and later worked 644 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: at Nine Partners Boarding School. Well, here I am over 645 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty years later, attending the same school, 646 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: which has changed names but is deeply rooted in its history. 647 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: I'm actually the first and only student archivist at my school. 648 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: The school changed names in eighteen fifty eight when it 649 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: moved to Union Springs, New York to Friends Academy, and 650 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: then in eighteen seventy six to Oakwood Seminary, and then 651 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: in nine changed to Oakwood School and moved back to 652 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: the Hudson Valley where Nine Partners originated. The final name 653 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: change was in when they changed the name to Oakwood 654 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 1: Friends School. I'm very proud to say I have attended 655 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: the school since sixth grade, and even prouder to say 656 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: I'm the first student archivists. That is so very, very cool. 657 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: He also mentions that James Mott was actually a bit 658 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: older than Lucretia Coffin Mott and was for a very 659 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: short time her teacher before she later was older and 660 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: they became a couple and got married all the best. 661 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: So that is very cool, Matt. That's such a fabulous connection. 662 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: We always love when people write to us with their 663 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: direct connections to history that we've talked about on the podcast. 664 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: You don't get much more direct than that. Uh. And 665 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: he also sent us some cool links about the school. 666 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: It was very very cool. We appreciate it. The next 667 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: one is from our listener Peter, and it is about 668 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 1: our diving podcast. And I'm not gonna read the whole 669 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: thing because, as I said, I'm reading several but he says, Uh, 670 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: the thing that actually prompted me to finally email you 671 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: is that I think you missed significant developments in the 672 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: history of diving equipment. And we mentioned that we would 673 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: because we can't do the whole thing. But the thing 674 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: he brings up is really cool. He says, specifically, I'm 675 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: thinking of a diving suit shown in Hans Talhoffer's fourteen 676 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: fifty nine manuscript. If any of our listeners don't know 677 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: what that is, it is a medieval warfare manuscript. Um. 678 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: It's a full body leather suit with a hose for air, 679 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: which was most likely provided by Bellows. Supposedly, this section 680 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,240 Speaker 1: of his manuscript is basically a copy of an older 681 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: work Bellafortis, written by Conrad Kaiser between fourteen o two 682 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: and fourteen o five, but I haven't seen that book myself. 683 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: You can find scans of Talhoffer's book online, and he 684 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 1: gives us a link, although that link did not work 685 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: for me. But then he uh links us to a 686 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: video about He says, quote, some crazy Danish guys actually 687 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: built a similar diving apparatus which can be seen in 688 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: this video. Uh, and it's very fascinating because one the 689 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: one in Talhoffer's manuscript looks fantastically cool and creepy, which 690 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: always it's me. I love any cool and creepy design. 691 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: And to uh, in this video that he links to, 692 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: they built this, uh you know, ancient style diving suit 693 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: and they actually take it in the water and it 694 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: it does in fact work, and it's quite cool. So 695 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: we will, um hopefully I will remember to put a 696 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: link to that in my stuff that I sent off 697 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: to Tracy to include in show notes. Uh. So cool. 698 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: Thank you for sending that, Peter, because I really was 699 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: blown away by the absolutely gorgeous and fabulous design of 700 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: that diving suit. It looks like something out of um 701 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: like a Mike Manola comics, so so I was of 702 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: course very happy with it. Our next one is from 703 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: our listener Ray Uh, and it is about also a 704 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: brief history of diving technology. Says Hi, Holly and Tracy. 705 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: I've loved this podcast quite a while now and appreciate 706 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: how it has added more interesting and substantial background to 707 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: many topics I've been learning while in college. I wanted 708 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: to let you know that from my understanding gleaned from 709 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: my history of scientific revolution at the seventeenth century class 710 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: at the University of Texas Austin, Philosophical Transactions, which was 711 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: a book that we referenced in the podcast, was actually 712 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: the scientific journal of the Royal Society of London. The 713 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: journal was started by the Society's first secretary, Henry Oldenburg, 714 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: and was the means of communicating the Society's experiments and 715 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: findings to other scientific men. It was through Oldenburg and 716 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: Philosophical Transactions that Isaac Newton contacted the Royal Society to 717 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: inform them of his findings regarding light color and his 718 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,439 Speaker 1: handbuilt reflecting telescope. In the podcast, you mentioned that Philosophical 719 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: Transactions is a work of Edmund Howe's. His article is 720 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: merely one included in the Royal Society's Scientific Journal. I 721 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 1: hope you to keep going with the podcast for a 722 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: long time. I really enjoy your enthusiasm for the topics 723 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: you discuss and the dynamic YouTube. Uh. The two of 724 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: you have adds to the fun factor of the podcast. 725 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: So thank you. Ray. That's a cool little tidbit that 726 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: did not quite sift out in my research, so I 727 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Uh. Soon to be graduating, So congratulations on 728 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: your hard work. If you would like, if you're right 729 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: to us and add to that wondrous um stream of 730 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: communication that we get, you can do so at History 731 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: Podcast at how stuff works dot com. You can connect 732 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: with us at Facebook dot com, slash mist in history 733 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mist in History, at pinterest dot com, 734 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 1: slash mist in History at Miston History dot tumbler dot com, 735 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram, we're at mist in History. There are lots 736 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: and lots of ways if you would like to learn 737 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: a little bit about what we talked about today, uh, 738 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: and it's really what we talked about today. You can 739 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: go to our parents site, how stuff Works, pipe in Carampus, 740 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: and you will get that article that Tracy mentioned by 741 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb. But where did crampus come from? Uh? There 742 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: are also other cool articles on our site, and you 743 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: can visit us at Misston History dot com if you 744 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: would like an archive of every episode of the podcast ever, 745 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: plus show notes of every podcast that has featured Tracy 746 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: and me, plus occasional other goodies. So come and visit 747 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: us at Misston history dot com and how stuff Works 748 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, 749 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: visit how stuff works dot com