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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Smantha, and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I never told you production by.

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Speaker 2: I hurt you, and we're back with a movie related topic.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that that's perfect for what I will

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Speaker 2: say is the beginning of fall. Yes, mainly because it's

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Speaker 2: actually kind of cool and that has been for the

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Speaker 2: past couple of days, meaning around sixties or seventies before

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Speaker 2: like ten.

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Speaker 3: So for us, it's huge, huge.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's not hit beyond ninety, which is incredible for

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Speaker 2: the like August and in September. I know everybody's like, what,

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Speaker 2: but with that just feels like movie season, like when

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Speaker 2: you get to come in and watch the movies, and

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Speaker 2: some of these movies since it's like.

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Speaker 3: School related, high school related.

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Speaker 2: Even feels like on topic because yes, all the kids

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Speaker 2: are back to school and they've been back.

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Speaker 3: To school for like a month.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry to y'all because that sounds awful and we're

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Speaker 2: not talking about the movie and I'm about to get

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Speaker 2: to it. But any I don't think we've actually watched

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Speaker 2: this for the show, and I'm kind of shocked by that.

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Speaker 2: I already talked about this yesterday. I had realize we've

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Speaker 2: never done this as a feminist movie, which is a

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Speaker 2: shame which I feel like we're gonna have to like

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Speaker 2: fix soon. But we were talking about the overall trope

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Speaker 2: of it, and we're talking about the mean girl trope,

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Speaker 2: and the mean girl trope has many names, and we're

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Speaker 2: gonna be referencing all the different names, and we will

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Speaker 2: be cursing a little bit because you know, they don't

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Speaker 2: like women and oftentimes degrade them in these tropes. We

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Speaker 2: know this, and I say they as in like filmmakers

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Speaker 2: and entertainers and all those people. So yes, we'll be

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Speaker 2: referencing the movie quite a bit, as it obviously has

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Speaker 2: a big impact.

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Speaker 3: Seriously, the title of the movie is mean Girl, So yeah,

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Speaker 3: and uh.

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Speaker 2: But first we want to note that mean girls goes

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Speaker 2: way back, like the actual idea of them, one specifically

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Speaker 2: noted from Jane Austen's classic Pride and Prejudice, which we

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Speaker 2: did cover. Hello Caroline Binkley. I feel like she is

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Speaker 2: an ultimate mean girl. She never does get a redemption

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Speaker 2: arc either, so the original mean girl. So let's start

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Speaker 2: with this question, Annie, do you have a favorite mean

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Speaker 2: girl or like a scenario of mean girls? Oh?

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Speaker 1: No, I remember when you suggested this I said, this

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Speaker 1: is like so out of what I but.

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Speaker 2: It's not because horror movies use this trope quite often.

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Speaker 1: They do, But I bet I classify it differently than

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Speaker 1: how I classify a mean girl.

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Speaker 2: Oh, because I would think bodies, bodies, bodies, mean girl.

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Speaker 2: But the mean girls there, which is we have that

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Speaker 2: whole like ousting of friendships and then like calling each

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Speaker 2: other out for not being around.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of this level of mingrel I would say more.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure I can't think of it in mind.

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Speaker 2: Well, Jennifer's Body is actually we're gonna mention that movie

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Speaker 2: and that is a mean girl movie as well, essentially,

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Speaker 2: so you know there's more than you think. The mean

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Speaker 2: girl has had evolution, an essential like growth and up dates.

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Speaker 2: So with that, that's what we're seeing and a lot

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Speaker 2: of horror movies, Carrie, I'm mentioning that as well also

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Speaker 2: has which you.

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Speaker 3: Have watched that right? Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: I keep coming back to all the movies, Like every

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Speaker 2: time you tell me you haven't watched something, even though

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Speaker 2: you've already told me this, I'm in shock. But I

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Speaker 2: will also say I was also in shock when you

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Speaker 2: do tell me you've watched a movie I'm like, you

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Speaker 2: have seen that one death becomes her an enigma? You

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Speaker 2: are death becomes or you have watched that. We haven't

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Speaker 2: talked about that and those like that's two mean girls,

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Speaker 2: two alpha girls going after each other, which is even funnier.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, I digress.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot and I think I'm gonna put a

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Speaker 2: spoiler here because we are talking a little bit about

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Speaker 2: one of your favorite movies in Kanto and it's fairly new,

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Speaker 2: and we do kind of spoil a couple of things,

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Speaker 2: so FYI, that's coming towards the end.

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Speaker 3: So let's begin. What is a main girl exactly?

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Speaker 2: Here's how Victoria con Leon sorry if I've said that wrong,

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Speaker 2: describes them for VNHS Mirror dot com. In teen media,

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Speaker 2: the main girl is typically an antagonistic character, notoriously good

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Speaker 2: at tormenting.

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Speaker 3: The main character.

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Speaker 2: These girls are often portrayed as popular, vain, selfish, and manipulative,

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Speaker 2: always sporting the best style. They come from rich families

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Speaker 2: with an air of determined self assurance.

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Speaker 1: And from a wonderful article written by student Ivy Gen

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Speaker 1: for their school on Highlight dot Org. Here's how she

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Speaker 1: explains the mean girl quote. According to online entertainment magazine

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Speaker 1: The take. The mean girl is confident, cunning, and manipulative.

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Speaker 1: She often finds entertainment from humiliating others, but is still

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Speaker 1: seen as charismatic and alluring by her peers. On the surface,

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Speaker 1: she's the face of power and corruption. She personifies the

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Speaker 1: status quo of the social hierarchy with a click that

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Speaker 1: enforces her tyrannical nature.

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Speaker 3: What is that movie?

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Speaker 2: Though, we just watched Where's the Influencer going on the

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Speaker 2: bachelorette party?

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Speaker 3: This is again the mean girl.

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Speaker 2: We see like we don't understand why she's mean. I mean,

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Speaker 2: she was mean from the beginning and pushed heart over

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Speaker 2: the edge, but it ended up being a horror movie.

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Speaker 3: Yes, again, like, there's so many of these examples. She

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Speaker 3: has to humiliate her, she has to be right.

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Speaker 2: She's the one that has all the money, she does

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Speaker 2: all the things, buys the nice things.

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Speaker 3: This is the mean girl.

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Speaker 2: And we'll come back to Ivy's article because she has

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Speaker 2: a very great insight on the theory on the mean

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Speaker 2: girl trope and its evolution. And I was so impressed

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Speaker 2: with her. I think she is her high school newspaper essentially.

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Speaker 2: It was like, but it's good so I'm gonna use it.

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Speaker 2: I love it, and her writing was wonderful, So good

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Speaker 2: on you, Ivy. But first, let's talk about the origins

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Speaker 2: of the mean girl and how it has been used

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Speaker 2: throughout our entertainment history and just history in general sociology.

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Speaker 2: Mean girls have been around for the entirety of the

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Speaker 2: existence of humans, it has, but the term itself didn't

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Speaker 2: come around until two thousand and two, when author Rosalind

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Speaker 2: Wiseman coined the term in her book Queen Bees and Wannabes.

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Speaker 2: And for a bit of background on that, Wiseman, who

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Speaker 2: was originally a martial arts teacher, I believe she does

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Speaker 2: have a degree in political science.

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Speaker 3: She taught young women.

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Speaker 2: She wrote this book, which pushed her into the world

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Speaker 2: of being an author and public speaker. And as we

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Speaker 2: were researching the topic, we didn't exactly find what catapulted

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Speaker 2: her to that world necessarily, like there wasn't just an

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Speaker 2: aha moment. But she does often talk about how she

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Speaker 2: witnessed the constant social cycles within girl circles.

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Speaker 3: So here's a bit from her Wikipedia page. So take

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Speaker 3: this with a green salt.

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Speaker 2: After hearing the young girls questions about social issues they

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Speaker 2: faced and watching them become empowered by martial arts. Wiseman

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Speaker 2: was inspired to begin working in the youth empowerment and

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Speaker 2: leadership building. After spending over a decade speaking with girls

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Speaker 2: about the social issues they face, including boys, clicks, gossip,

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Speaker 2: social hierarchy, and self image, Wiseman wrote Queen Bees and Wannabes.

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Speaker 2: The book gives suggestions on how parents can better understand

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Speaker 2: and help their daughters navigate the social atmosphere of what

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Speaker 2: Wiseman refers to as quote girl world. Since his release

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and two, it has become a New

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Speaker 2: York Times bestseller and was the basis for the two

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Speaker 2: thousand and four film Mean Girls. And though the actual

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Speaker 2: trope again has been around forever. So let's just like

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Speaker 2: we know, we've we know what it is without giving

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Speaker 2: it me like the name right because you can look

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Speaker 2: at the movie carry which apparently any hasn't seen, no,

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Speaker 2: and it is the epitome of mean girls for real

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Speaker 2: or even children's classics. The parent trap. There's like, even

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Speaker 2: though they're not truly mean girls, they.

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Speaker 3: Are mean girls to each other. At first they bully

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Speaker 3: each other.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand, although again this falls into the more

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Speaker 2: lovable misunderstood mean girl trope, which is part of the

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Speaker 2: evolution of the mean girl that we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about later. The term came after the coining within this

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Speaker 2: self help book. And by the way, the author has

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Speaker 2: written many more books and including advice for adult mean

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Speaker 2: girl situations like in the workplace. Also, I believe they

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Speaker 2: are on the third edition of the original book so

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Speaker 2: as to keep up with the times and the changes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, new movie too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Also, I just realized I've seen the rage carry two.

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Speaker 2: Just does that make me want to flip the table?

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Speaker 2: So you need to stop talking.

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Speaker 1: Because there was a song in there I liked.

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Speaker 3: I'll give you that. I'll give you that, Okay. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: Wiseman often uses titles like Queen Bee and alpha Girls

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Speaker 1: to categorize the mean girls, and throughout the book and

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Speaker 1: in her classes and seminars, she's really classified the different types.

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Speaker 1: In one reference, she would use the term really mean

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Speaker 1: girls are RMG's as a reference for alpha girls. Here's

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Speaker 1: a bit from a two thousand and four New York

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Speaker 1: Times article titled girls Just Want to Be Mean, where

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Speaker 1: they talk about having an apology day and one of

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Speaker 1: Weisman's classes quote the girls whom Weisman variously calls the

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Speaker 1: alpha girls. The RMG's really mean girls are the queen

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Speaker 1: bees are the ones who are supposed to own up

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Speaker 1: to having backstabbed or dumped a front, but they are

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Speaker 1: also the most resistant to the exercise and the most

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Speaker 1: self justifying. The girls who are their habitual victims or

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Speaker 1: hangers on. The wannabes and messengers in Weisman's lingo, are

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Speaker 1: always apologizing anyway.

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Speaker 2: Right, And within the article they talk a bit more

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Speaker 2: about Wiseman herself, as well as a great reference to

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Speaker 2: again one of our favorite Heathers. We've mentioned a lot

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Speaker 2: of movies in here that we have watched.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, just listen to for those. Here's

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Speaker 3: a quote.

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Speaker 2: Wiseman, who is thirty two and hip and girlish herself,

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Speaker 2: has taught this class at many different schools, and it's

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Speaker 2: fair to say that although she loves girls, she does

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Speaker 2: not cling to sentimental notions about them. She is a feminist,

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Speaker 2: but not the sort likely to ascribe greater inherent compassion

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Speaker 2: to women or girls as a group than two men

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Speaker 2: or boys.

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Speaker 1: More.

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Speaker 2: Her style is the analysis of the feminist historian Elizabeth

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Speaker 2: Fox Genoviz, who has observed that quote, those who have

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Speaker 2: experienced dismissal by that junior high school girls clique could

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Speaker 2: hardly with a straight face claim generosity and nurture as

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Speaker 2: a natural attribute of women.

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Speaker 3: Together.

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Speaker 2: Weiseman and I once watched the movie Heathers, the nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty nine black comedy about a triad of vicious queen

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Speaker 2: bees who got their come uppance, and she found it

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Speaker 2: quote pretty true to life. The line uttered by Winona

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Speaker 2: Writer as Veronica, the disaffected non Heather of the group,

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Speaker 2: struck her as particularly apt. I don't really like my friends.

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Speaker 2: It's just like there are people I work with and

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Speaker 2: our job is being popular.

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Speaker 1: And the article gives a bit more factual context on

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Speaker 1: the mean girls and why we may have been inundated

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Speaker 1: with so much mean girl content in the nineties and

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Speaker 1: two thousands. Quote. This focus on the cruelty of girls is,

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Speaker 1: of course something new. For years, psychologists who study aggression

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Speaker 1: among school children looked only at its physical and overt

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Speaker 1: manifestations and concluded that girls were less aggressive than boys.

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Speaker 1: That consensus began to change in the early nineties after

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Speaker 1: a team of researchers led by a Finnish professor named

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Speaker 1: kaj Yorquist started interviewing eleven and twelve year old girls

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Speaker 1: about their behavior toward one another. The team's conclusion was

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Speaker 1: that the girls were in fact just as aggressive as boys,

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Speaker 1: though in a different way. They were not as likely

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Speaker 1: to engage in physical fights, for example, but their superior

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Speaker 1: social intelligence enabled them to wage complicated battles with other

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Speaker 1: girls aimed at damaging relationships or reputations, leaving nasty messages

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Speaker 1: by cell phone or spreading scurrilous rumors by email, making

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Speaker 1: friends with one girl as revenge against another, gossiping about

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Speaker 1: someone just loudly enough to be overheard. Turning the notion

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Speaker 1: of women's greater empathy on its head byor quests focused

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Speaker 1: on the destructive uses to which such emotional attunement could

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Speaker 1: be put. Girls can better understand how other girls feel,

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Speaker 1: as he puts it, so they know better how to

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Speaker 1: harm them.

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Speaker 2: I will say that just triggered me to a middle

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Speaker 2: school incident on the playground or friends where we were

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Speaker 2: separated and one person wasn't invited.

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Speaker 3: To a birthday party. Oh, just like I had that moment.

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Speaker 4: Jeez, So I'm not completely wrong about this whole That

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Speaker 4: was always a girl's girl, if you did something wrong,

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Speaker 4: I was like mad at you, like if you did

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Speaker 4: something really wrong.

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Speaker 2: But outside of that, Nah, but yeah, I just had

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Speaker 2: this moment wow or Maria, Sorry Maria. So the article

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Speaker 2: goes on to highlight other studies that came soon after.

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Speaker 2: Here's something that was written in relation to Rachel Simmons'

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Speaker 2: work titled Odd Girl Out The Hidden Culture of Aggression

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Speaker 2: and Girls. In her book The twenty seven year Old,

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Speaker 2: Simmons offers a plaintive definition of a relational aggression. Unlike

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Speaker 2: boys who tend to bully acquaintances or strangers, girls frequently

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Speaker 2: attack within tightly knit friendship networks, making aggression harder to

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Speaker 2: identify and intensify the damage to the victims. Within the

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Speaker 2: hidden culture of aggression, girls fight with body language and

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Speaker 2: relationships instead of fists and knives. In this world, friendship

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Speaker 2: is a weapon, and the sting of a shout peals

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Speaker 2: in comparison to a day of someone's silence. No gesture

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Speaker 2: more devastating than back turning away. Now, Simonist insists, is

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Speaker 2: the time to pull up the rock and really look

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Speaker 2: at this seeding underside of American girlhood beneath a facade

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Speaker 2: of female intimacy, she writes, lies a terrain traveled in secret,

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Speaker 2: marked with anguish and nourished by silence.

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Speaker 3: She's not completely wrong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and again this.

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Speaker 2: Kind of also reminds me of a New Girl episode

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Speaker 2: where the two jests and CEC don't talk to each other, like,

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Speaker 2: they don't actually fight, but they do passive aggressive things,

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Speaker 2: but they know they're in a fight, and no one

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Speaker 2: else knows that they're in a fight, right, And then

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Speaker 2: when they actually get physical with each other, they feel

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Speaker 2: better and you screamed at each other, they released it

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Speaker 2: all and their friends again.

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Speaker 3: But I'm like, that doesn't typically happen.

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Speaker 2: When that happens, friendship usically just over right by that

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Speaker 2: point anyway. And though it isn't mentioned in the article

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Speaker 2: about how the patriarchy and misogyny are big influences within

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Speaker 2: this relative aggression that they have termed this type of actions,

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Speaker 2: they do go on to look into other ages and

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Speaker 2: emotional factors for the reactions. And I don't think we're

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Speaker 2: the only ones who thought about this. Here's another quote

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Speaker 2: from the CEC online dot Com article. It says, to

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Speaker 2: get into the discourse of it all, the popular mean

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Speaker 2: girl trope is a caricature feeling internalized misogyny in all

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Speaker 2: of us. Ironically, she's often written by men. As much

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Speaker 2: as we know that she is an exaggerated and unrealistic

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Speaker 2: movie character, she's so ingrained in our minds that it

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Speaker 2: feels like surely some of her must be real and

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Speaker 2: must be present in real women. Hollywood has pulled this

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Speaker 2: long con on us over decades in an act of

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Speaker 2: what we would now call next level gaslighting. This archetype

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Speaker 2: made us feel bad for not being unrealistically beautiful, rich,

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Speaker 2: or thin. But more than that, did it encourage an

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Speaker 2: era of bullying that caused more damage than anyone could

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Speaker 2: have expected. These movies told us that being mean is

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Speaker 2: what made you popular. We can't help but wonder what

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Speaker 2: this did for the psyche of teenagers growing up. So

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Speaker 2: just coupling the two ideas about, okay, this is how

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Speaker 2: you win a war is by being mean to a group,

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Speaker 2: like gaging up on someone, versus also seeing that in

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Speaker 2: Hollywood films, as well as not realizing this is only

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Speaker 2: helping one set of peoples and it's not women or

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Speaker 2: marginalized peoples. But I found that very interesting that none

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Speaker 2: of the earlier works really talks about it. I also

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Speaker 2: want to go ahead and talk about the fact the

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Speaker 2: way they describe Wiseman's feminism as very like low key,

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Speaker 2: almost to the point of saying I'm not feminists, but

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Speaker 2: type of conversation I was like, oh okay, oh okay. However,

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Speaker 2: Wiseman did continue to make additions to keep up with

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Speaker 2: the changes of the times. So what we were talking

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Speaker 2: about when we were talking about her theories was the

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four edition and the self helpic did

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Speaker 2: have an impact again in the trope itself, literally being

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Speaker 2: the reason that the movie Mean Girls was even thought

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Speaker 2: of by Tina Fey, who actually did consult a bit

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Speaker 2: with Wiseman. I don't know though, if she took a

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Speaker 2: lot of that advice Tina Fey. I think she took

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff out and did her own thing.

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Speaker 2: Did talk to Wiseman, but kind of like just okay, cool, thanks,

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Speaker 2: type of situations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, from what I've read, I don't think she likes

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Speaker 3: a new version.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's what that's why, just just just the just the

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Speaker 2: quick kess of I've not seen that. With that background,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about the Mean Girls the main inspiration actually

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Speaker 2: comes from the classic Heathers. Uh. Yes, we did this

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Speaker 2: feature as one of our first movies. I remember it well,

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Speaker 2: being on your beach house watching it on your small TV. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because you had bought it from me on DVD, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, let's do this. But like we said before,

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Speaker 2: the mean girls have been around way before this, but

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Speaker 2: this was kind of the quintessential beginning. And again what

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Speaker 2: Wiseman took as examples, but like, yeah, they're the fairy tale.

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Speaker 2: Cinderella is about meingirls, her wicked stepsisters and her mother. Yeah, hey,

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Speaker 2: meanirl theme. They were real mean to her, but she,

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Speaker 2: you know, succeeded without them, and they just there's different

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Speaker 2: versions of what happens to them, but it's not nice.

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Speaker 2: But Heathers, yes, as a staple when it comes to

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Speaker 2: the best example. Here's a bit from the teenmagazine dot

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Speaker 2: com about meingirls. I can't talk about the mean girl

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Speaker 2: trope without first mentioning Heathers, the nineteen eighty nine cult

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Speaker 2: classic that simultaneously became the blueprint for the archetype and

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Speaker 2: defied the somewhat sexist expectations of teenage girls. Heathers show

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Speaker 2: the consequence this is not just of mean girls' actions themselves,

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Speaker 2: but of societal misunderstanding of teens and angst, while poking

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Speaker 2: fun of the characters and the subject matter with hilarious

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Speaker 2: self awareness.

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Speaker 1: So in the typical story, we have a girl often

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Speaker 1: seen as innocent or an outsider, are both, who are

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Speaker 1: pitted against another girl and her posse. This posse is

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Speaker 1: seen as popular and cool, and they dictate the social

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Speaker 1: hierarchy in their territory. And again with another reference to

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Speaker 1: the Heathers, hears a bit more about the leader, or

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Speaker 1: as Wiseman may call her, the Alpha from that CEC

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Speaker 1: Online article quote. We know her so well. She's gorgeous,

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Speaker 1: she's wealthy, she's smart, she drives boys crazy, and above all,

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Speaker 1: she's the absolute worst. She's the popular mean girl in

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Speaker 1: every teen movie we grew up watching, and she's completely

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Speaker 1: made up. Despite her not existing, this archetype has stuck

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Speaker 1: around for decades, still being used today in movies, series

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Speaker 1: and reality TV, so implanted in our minds that we're

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Speaker 1: convinced that her real life incarnation must be out there

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Speaker 1: somewhere waiting to pounce and make us feel bad. Despite feminism,

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Speaker 1: pop culture and representation making so many progressive strides. Why

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Speaker 1: is the popular mean girl so indelible and why the

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Speaker 1: hell was she created in the first place. What is

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Speaker 1: it that makes this character so quintessentially her? She's stereotypically beautiful,

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Speaker 1: of course, but she's also really mean. From one of

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Speaker 1: her first iterations embodied by Heather Chandler and Heathers to

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Speaker 1: Chanelle number one in screen Queens, she's tall, skinny, white,

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Speaker 1: and she has Salan quality hairstyling every day despite being

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Speaker 1: in high school. She's also always rich, and not in

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Speaker 1: a quiet luxury kind of way. We'll see ostentatious shots

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Speaker 1: of her family's massive suburban house, her fancy car, often

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Speaker 1: convertible sports cars it was the nineties, her huge bedroom

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Speaker 1: in bed, and most obviously, her incredible wardrobe.

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Speaker 2: Right, And we're not really talking about the depth of

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Speaker 2: how most of the mean girls at the beginning were

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Speaker 2: white and very rich and very sexual or seen as

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Speaker 2: very sexual. We're not really talking about that part at

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Speaker 2: this point.

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Speaker 3: We should.

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Speaker 2: I think I've just ran at it with time or

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Speaker 2: so we'll come back to that maybe at a different

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Speaker 2: point when we talk about other tropes. I'm sure, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: that is something to be seen, although there is conversations

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Speaker 2: about how more and more people of color have been

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Speaker 2: put as the mean girls. Asian girls I've seen as

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Speaker 2: being put in this as the mean girl, rich, small,

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Speaker 2: all those things and sexually active obviously, and it seems

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Speaker 2: like that's kind of the filler, like, oh, you want

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Speaker 2: more people of color.

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Speaker 3: We'll put them in this role. Then it will shake

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Speaker 3: it up.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, just for fun, because I love it, We're

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Speaker 2: gonna talk a little bit more about the Heathers and

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Speaker 2: really how it brought into in an age and generation

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Speaker 2: of mean girls and again their importance.

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Speaker 3: And this is from gain.

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Speaker 2: Rent, though it has appeared in many, many iterations since.

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Speaker 2: The earliest example of mean girl tropes as we know

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Speaker 2: it today it came from the nineteen eighty eight movies

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Speaker 2: or nineteen eighty nine Heathers. Heathers had had a sort

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Speaker 2: of renaissance lately because of the surging popularity of the

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Speaker 2: musical adaptation, but the original movie was kind of a

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Speaker 2: cult classic for a long time. The mean girls in

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Speaker 2: questions are the Heathers themselves, three teenage girls all named

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Speaker 2: Heather who ruled the school as a group Heather Chandler

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Speaker 2: is the head and is the ultimate pinnacle of the

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Speaker 2: mean girl, so much so that basically everyone who came

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Speaker 2: after was based on this model. She, along with other girls,

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Speaker 2: is fundamentally motivated by status in social hierarchy, whether that's

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Speaker 2: gaining it or maintaining the capital she already has. That's

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Speaker 2: kind of the definition of the mean girl. She's confident, ambitious,

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Speaker 2: and cunning, but she uses these traits to uphold power

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Speaker 2: and manipulate others into doing her bidding, thereby keeping her

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Speaker 2: as the bee. Is also important to the trope that

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Speaker 2: other people want to be her, and Heather Chandler's social

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Speaker 2: status is so coveted by others that it literally has

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Speaker 2: deadly consequences in the stories and oftentimes in horror stories. Interestingly,

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Speaker 2: some would call the mean girl trope the Heather trope.

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Speaker 2: Like I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense. According

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Speaker 2: to an article titled the Heather Trope?

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Speaker 3: What is it?

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Speaker 2: And how do you write this character? We're not giving

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Speaker 2: you advice how to write, by the way, just talk

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00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 2: about head apart they write. A Heather is a character

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Speaker 2: trope that describes the popular person of the high school. Typically,

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Speaker 2: a Heather is a female character who is traditionally beautiful

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Speaker 2: and is desired by both men and women. A character

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00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: who falls into the heather trope is often complex and

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Speaker 2: driven by desire to keep up a well manicured appearance.

437
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: Similar to the mean girl, the Heather can come off

438
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 2: as a mean spirited even if they're trying to be nice.

439
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: This is due to the audience's perception of these types

440
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 2: of characters, which leads to a later understanding of the

441
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: characters complexities that make them feel the need to appear

442
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: a certain way.

443
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: And it continues quote. The heather trope appeals to the

444
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: female desire to be understood and accepted as they are,

445
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: rather than what they appear to be. It is a

446
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: trope that can often be misunderstood and misrepresented, creating a

447
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: character that is mean just because they're pretty.

448
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a little bit different in the wanting

449
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: to be accepted part. They actually go on to use

450
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: Dinnifer from Jennifer's Body Again, we watched that one too

451
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: as an example of this and also as an example

452
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 2: of taking down the patriarchy.

453
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 3: So they use the mean girl trope to take down

454
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: the man. I'm like, okay, that's that's that's.

455
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 2: An appropriate way. Yeah, I approve it this way, so

456
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 2: I'm definitely the feminist that the other articles referring. Now,

457
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: one of the things we didn't talk about with Weisman's

458
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: books and classes is her breakdown of these groups, which

459
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: is often seen again within like Heathers and Mean Girls

460
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 2: and other classic films. But it is understood that part

461
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: of the downfall and the catalyst within the mean Girl

462
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: slash girls trope as the battle to become the RMG

463
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: or the alpha. And I love that this word was

464
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: in usage for mean Girls and now have become more

465
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: popular for like the referencing on a strong male leader.

466
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: But back to the GameRant dot com article, they continue

467
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: to break down how the group is seen within different movies.

468
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: Quote Heather's itself is a satire and more of an

469
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: indictment on society for forcing young girls to get to

470
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: this point more than anything else, but the fundamental tropes

471
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: it presented became staples of ten movies into the nineties

472
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: and two thousands. Mean Girls presented a more modern version

473
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: of the trio from Heathers from the head mean girl

474
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: Heather Chandler and Regina George to the jealous Lackey Heather

475
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: Duke and Gretchen Wieners to the dumb one who might

476
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: secretly be the nicest of the trio, Heather McNamara and

477
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: Karen Smith. The bearz of the plot of Mean Girls

478
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: is similar to Heathers as well. The protagonists Veronica Slash

479
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: Katie befriends the popular girls and thinks they've cracked the

480
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: code of social status, only to find that the world

481
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: of the mean Girl is much darker than they thought,

482
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: and they don't like how it changes them.

483
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: Yes, after they get called out, of course, So the

484
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 2: RMG or the Alpha or alpha because a lot of

485
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: them call them the Alpha or Queen B is the

486
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: antagonist and I'm saying this with a capital A. The

487
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: antagonist and is the epitome of power or of evil

488
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 2: or both. And here's a bit from TV tropes dot org.

489
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: The Alpha is living, breathing evidence that popular is evil,

490
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: from stealing your crush to humiliating you in front of

491
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: the whole school. There is no low she won't stoop

492
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: to in order to oppress her dorky classmates and assert

493
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: herself as the queen. She will often win Homecoming Queen

494
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: or prom Queen in a landslide vote or not, that's

495
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 2: their takedown, and oftentimes she's the authority of the cheerleading

496
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: squad and decides who's on and off the squad. After all,

497
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: who needs a coach?

498
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: Hello'e bring it on.

499
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: And they continue quote. She's also usually the sign of

500
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: a wealthy and influential family, the star of the school

501
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: or head sister of the influential college sorority house, thus

502
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: providing her a network of local celebrity, influence and wealth

503
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: to exploit. She's also quite the seductress, even going so

504
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: far as to bear her midriff as a method of intimidation,

505
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: and consequently all the boys fight amongst themselves, sometimes literally,

506
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: to be her oppressed boyfriend. And to top it off,

507
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: she's also very good looking. All this leaves her with

508
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: the belief that she can do whatever she likes without consequences. Unfortunately,

509
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: she's often right. The powers that be are not immune

510
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: to her family's wealth, connections and influence, and they can

511
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: and will be corrupted or coerced into overlooking her bad behavior.

512
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: Her natural enemy is the loser heroine. Whenever their eternal

513
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: jealousy fueld struggle over possessions, boyfriends, and status is sparked,

514
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: aew quarter will neither be asked for nor given.

515
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: So with all those details, we have to ask, why

516
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: does the mean girl trope work and has it grown

517
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: with the times. Maybe it's not the fact that it worked,

518
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: but with a sense of entertainment and foretales like Cinderella,

519
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 2: Heathers and Carrie.

520
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 3: More of it's about justice.

521
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: Like having the deadly ending that brings a bit of

522
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 2: satisfaction in the story that that vengeance, And as the

523
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 2: time has changed, we see a bit of a shift

524
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: into the lovable alpha or the reginas who's able to

525
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: release their anger and finally be themselves.

526
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, here's some thoughts on the mean girl and

527
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: what we as a society may see about them. From

528
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: Women's Republic dot net quote. Contrary to her male counterpart,

529
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: the jock bully, who is usually dumb and lacks a

530
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: promising future, the mean girl is full of potential. She

531
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: believes herself and is aware of her own intelligence. Her

532
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: personality drives these positive characteristics to a hyper competitive extreme

533
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 1: and makes her a skilled, yet cruel and devious ruler.

534
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: The core of the mean girl's character is often deep

535
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: insecurity and anger. She is guided by her rage and

536
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: her cynical and deep understanding of the world. Rachel mcadam's

537
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: portrayal of Regina George captures this eloquently in Regina's meltdown

538
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: after finding out that Katie was deceiving her all along,

539
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: or in the regular rude outburst she has towards her mom.

540
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 1: The mean girl is really just an angry girl in

541
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: need of boundaries and guidance. Unable to deal with her emotion,

542
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: she projects her anger into selfishness and protects herself from

543
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: the outside world, climbing the social hierarchy. The mean girl

544
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: is well aware of how society works. Instead of fighting

545
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: these structures, she upholds them because at least that way

546
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: she can end up on top.

547
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: Right and the writer goes into more detail of what

548
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: makes a good mean girl. She writes, a successful portrayal

549
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: of Meingirlo trope should include a motive to the meanness.

550
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: Sharpey Evans wanted to start on Broadway. Regina George was

551
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: addicted to the power of being influential and saw her

552
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: own self worth in popularity. Blair Waldorf relied on her

553
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: status to achieve her dreams. The mean girl needs a

554
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: backstory to make her authentic. Explaining her behavior simply on

555
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: the basis of her gender is sexist and unsatisfying. Her

556
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: life also isn't all is cut out to be. Regina

557
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: George is on a constant diet to maintain her figure.

558
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: Cheryl Blossom lost her brother and closest friend, Rosalie hale

559
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: A Low Twilight hates being a vampire the foundation of

560
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: her existence. The mean girl is smart, she has a

561
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: signature look, and most importantly, she exues desirability on several levels,

562
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 2: which remains even after her downfall. So we know that

563
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: we have to have mean girls for some of these

564
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: movies and hopefully they come back together with like, oh

565
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: it wasn't a competition hopefully or you know, taking down Man.

566
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: One of those.

567
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: So the mean girl must be the feminine representation as well.

568
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: So here's some interesting thoughts from Madison Huizinga, I'm so

569
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: sorry if I said that wrong, and what she wrote

570
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: in her substack about mean girls. So mingirl is always

571
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: hyper feminine. She embodies feminine stereotypes on steroids, immaculate faces

572
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: of ultra glamorous makeup, victorious secret push up bras, be

573
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: dazzled notebooks, luscious waterfalls of the care, manicured nails, and

574
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 2: an undying obsession with fashion. Mean girls of the nineties

575
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: and early two thousands looked like they got caught in

576
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: a Claire's thunderstorm, followed by a limited to tornado.

577
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: What a reference? What a reference? And she continues in

578
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: her writing quote, the cookie cutter characterization of a hyper

579
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: feminine mean girl and an unfeminine protagonist is not an accident.

580
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: There's a reason why this formula has thrived for decades,

581
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: the same reason why young boys are reprimanded for preferring

582
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: to play with dolls and wear skirts, while young girls

583
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: are more often praised for not being afraid to get dirty,

584
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: playing in the mud, and stuck with the label tomboy.

585
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: In a patriarchal society, femininity is viewed at best as

586
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: acute deficiency and at worst as evil. Obviously, America has

587
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: moved past witch trials, yet the disdain for femininity persists

588
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: in slighter ways, less boisterous, but loud enough to permeate

589
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: the consciousness of media consumers of all genders. Four years teen,

590
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: rom coms have disseminated the message that if girls want

591
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: to be viewed as intelligent, interesting and in the end

592
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: worthy of an equally smart and steady boyfriend. They ultimately

593
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: need to abandon their overly feminine qualities. Eliminate your vocal fry,

594
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: wipe off the lip gloss, Prove that you're the exception,

595
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: the brilliant needle in the haystack of ditsy girlishness to

596
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: be seen as having any kind of substance. Prove you're

597
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: not like most girls. To prove your significance.

598
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: Right, and it isn't too surprising to know that it

599
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: is the opposits that have to fight that the enemy

600
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: would be the outsider. We would add to that the

601
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: layers of makeover tropes, the betting trope. You know, dude

602
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: will definitely have sex with the unpopular girl who was

603
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: hot all along, but they don't have sex, and instead

604
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: he the dude, gets a redemption arc because at the

605
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: last minute he decided that's not a nice idea. But

606
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: even without those types of tropes, we would still have

607
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: the pretty girl versus the not as pretty girl, or

608
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: so we're told that, you know, her curly hair makes

609
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: her unpretty?

610
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 3: Or glasses am I right? Am I right?

611
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: As Huizinga writes quote, and somehow the pendulum manages to

612
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: swing to the other extreme, too, conceiving a swarm of

613
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: opposing but related identity issues. If girls don't conventionally groom

614
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: or adorn themselves like the stereotypical woman, if they abandon makeup,

615
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: long hair, and dresses, they're often seen as less of

616
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: a girl. Sometimes they're asked if they are even girls

617
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: at all. As conceptions of gender are inextricably tough, hied

618
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: up with appearances, and so a balancing act fit for

619
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: the circus emerges. Girls quickly learn to be tightrope walkers,

620
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: walking the fine line between being a socially acceptable, conventionally

621
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: attractive woman, but not being so girlish that they're seen

622
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: as stupid, unserious, or caddy, perhaps also while trying to

623
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: figure out the person they want to be for themselves,

624
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: apart from the media influence, if that's even possible to discern.

625
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: The stress of this balancing act bolsters an already thriving

626
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: culture of competition among women. When the patriarchy only allows

627
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: a small fixed number of pedestals of power for women,

628
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: they must fight each other for them, leading to a

629
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: flourishing cesspool of internalized misogyny. Rather than targeting this energy

630
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: towards dismantling the patriarchy, the source of this issue. Girls

631
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: express hatred toward other girls, their designated opponents. Instead of

632
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: using some of this energy to uplift other girls, they

633
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: direct it towards trying to be the exception to It's

634
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: a cure, a spot on the prize pedestal, be it

635
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: a gateway to a higher pinging job, a boyfriend, or

636
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: just healthy self worse.

637
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: Right, And I feel like she kind of took what

638
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 3: we were saying at the beginning. How we didn't. No

639
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 3: one was addressing that part.

640
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 2: Everybody was just addressing, Oh, mean girls could be mean

641
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: they can.

642
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: We understand this, But why in this scenario?

643
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: And yes, the usage of mean girl to propel the

644
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 2: narrative that women can't be friends is not something new

645
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 2: in the foil. Not like most girls, Trope is placed

646
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: to make sure that the friendship seems near and possible.

647
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: Huizinga devines this. Not like most girls, Trope as the

648
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: protagonist in our story. Unlike mean girls, she is pleasant

649
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: and shows compassion to friends and strangers. She is often

650
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: smart or talented in some secretive way, perhaps notably bookish, artistic,

651
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: or athletic. When one of these hidden talents is uncovers,

652
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: she peaks the interest of another prominent character, typically the

653
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: attractive boyfriend and of the mean girl, or at least

654
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: the interest strikingly not like most girls, defining uh stable

655
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: trait is the complete opposite of the mean girls. She

656
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: is decidedly not feminine. She either subtly dresses more plain

657
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: and boyish than the mean girl, more pants less pink,

658
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 2: or downright rejects fashion and makeup altogether, deeming it unnecessary

659
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 2: or trivial. Her hair is either thrown up in a

660
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: practical ponytail or stuffed into a knotted bundle atop her

661
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: scalp rather than holding a handbag. She can be found

662
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 2: roaming the hallways with her nose stuck in a book,

663
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: clumsily bumping into fellows students. Yeah, this is uh, she's

664
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: she's all that, for sure, you've never seen that. I

665
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: don't think you're missing much on that one.

666
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 5: But like glasses, like the Hollywood movie, the glasses, the overalls,

667
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 5: her hiding and like like and then her Uh.

668
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 2: I want to say, they're implying that he he's autistic, brother,

669
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 2: but I don't think he is. I can't figure out

670
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: what they're because he's He rollers skates and decides to

671
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 2: put pepper on everybody's lunch and people make fun of him.

672
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, but yes, that's that one. But yeah, okay,

673
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 3: I still I do.

674
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: The usher scene, the dance, the bad dance scenes. What

675
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 2: pops into my head. This has become the age of

676
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 2: women supporting women, and so the idea of mean girls

677
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 2: have had to catch up to us essentially, and since

678
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: then we've had that big conversation with mean girls asking

679
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: are you okay? No, really, are you okay? You know,

680
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 2: truly trying to get to the bottom.

681
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 1: Many would argue that the mean girl isn't actually mean,

682
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: but angry and misunderstood. In fact, going back to the

683
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: student we mentioned Avy Jen who wrote about mean girls,

684
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: she talks about the empowerment in evolving a female anger quote.

685
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: Not only are emotion expressed through behind the scenes manipulation,

686
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: but oftentimes violent passion. Regina George's outbursts and the conclusion

687
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: of mean Girls exemplified this. A woman can rage over

688
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: reputation and money, exemplified by the character Runata Kline and

689
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: Big Little Eyes, showing that these outbursts may be a

690
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: last resort for women to achieve what they covet. The

691
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: mean girl's trope to me is not about a character's personality, privilege,

692
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: or materialistic tendencies, but rather the individual and societal factors

693
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: behind a character's actions, words, or emotion.

694
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 2: And she isn't the only one who sees the evolution

695
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 2: of a mean girl. Perhaps they would call it an

696
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 2: update of it, maybe not. Gweta writes in her twenty

697
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 2: twenty four movie Web article. The importance here is that

698
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: the trope has gotten a touch up, growing from the

699
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 2: self centered young woman who does not have much of

700
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: a reason to be as hateful as she is to

701
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: a young woman who has dealt with her own hardships

702
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: and feels that she is justified in how she reacts

703
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: to things. This may not seem like a huge shift

704
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: on the outside, but it really is. When keeping the

705
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: character up to date, girls are becoming more complex and

706
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: relatable in the sense that audiences can sympathize with what

707
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: they've been through, even if they do not fully condone

708
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: how the young women handle things. In the present, the

709
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 2: trope is still at the forefront of many teen movies

710
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 2: and shows, and a lot of the time, they receive

711
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: the spotlight to show how no one can really be

712
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: considered quote good or bad. There is a gray middle

713
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: ground where this trope now resides. With this shift in

714
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 2: this trope, they are able to fall in love, have

715
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: genuine friends who do not stick with them due to

716
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: their status, and become someone who is actually likable.

717
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 3: This is a.

718
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: Positive change to the formerly shallow trope, and we cannot

719
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: wait to see what becomes of it in the future.

720
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: Or we have movies that break the stereotype pretty early on,

721
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: such as inn Encanto as the latter days. Sat geeks

722
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: dot com article writes about the sisters Mirabella and Isabella,

723
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: who seem to have nothing in common and Mirabell seeing

724
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: Isabella as the standard of the perfect, powerful daughter, but

725
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: we quickly learn that isn't the case. Here's a quote.

726
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: The room is covered in flower blossoms and Isabella's bed

727
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: is suspended from the ceiling by vines. She controls. It's

728
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: the girliest thing since the original My Little Pony series,

729
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: only somehow less subtle. She tries to throw Mirabel out

730
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: via vines when Mirabel starts challenging her about being perfect,

731
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: temporarily giving up on the hug my sister to save

732
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: the family plan. It's when Isabella starts to truly get mad,

733
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: not flippantly annoyed, but actually mad that she accidentally makes

734
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: a cactus. The two sisters look surprised at the spiny

735
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: addition to the room, and then Isabella breaks out into song.

736
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: Apparently with all her power, all she'd ever done was

737
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: make flowers and vines grow. She had no idea she

738
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: could affect other plants or make something that's not a

739
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: traditionally pretty flower. This is where the mean girl trope

740
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 1: spins on its head when we get insight into Isabella's

741
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: so called perfection. She feels like she has to be

742
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: because that's what's best for the family right.

743
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 2: And here we don't see the mean girl trope being

744
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: used as the antagonist, but more of the revelation for

745
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: both the hero in her family to a problem that

746
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: has to be solved in order to save all of them.

747
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: And as the article continues once again, and Kanto flips

748
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: this trope over by having Isabella conjure plants with colorful pollen,

749
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 2: which he then voluntarily gets on her clothes and her hair,

750
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: ruining her pretty pink dress. In the end of the song,

751
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 2: her and Mirabel are covered in color from the plants,

752
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: a complete mess and smiling happily. The sisters finally embrace

753
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: in the mess they've made, allowing each other to be

754
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: their imperfect cells and loving each other for it instead

755
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: of in spite of it. Isabella ruining her dress on

756
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: purpose shows her breakneck growth as a character. She's not

757
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 2: trying to be perfect and is now embracing all the imperfections,

758
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: which allows her to have a relationship with her sister,

759
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: who is considered the black sheep of the family. So

760
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: a great example of what can be done and why

761
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: it's necessary for the plot without making it sexist and gross,

762
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: and as Aditi Marty writes in her article tie, can

763
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 2: we move on from the mean girl trope? As a

764
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: depiction of hyper competitiveness between women in this swaddle dot

765
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: com quote, waves of feminists have attempted to discern and

766
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: work towards why women compete with each other and how

767
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 2: they can work together instead. Their work ranges from the

768
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 2: shine theory, which posits women's ability to befriend and learn

769
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: from other women, to upholding kindness as a deeply underrated

770
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 2: feminist way of life. This work is both possible and

771
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: shows gradual results because they consider women's hyper aggressiveness and

772
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: competition as a reaction to societal forces rather than innate.

773
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: This shift has yielded results. Mean girls on screen now

774
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: come with nuance, background stories and motivations because the audience

775
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 2: will simply not accept women are caddy negative, preppy and

776
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: competitive female characters now come with backstories. Cheryl Blossom and

777
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: Riverdale are friendless for their competitive nature. Sharpey evans in

778
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: high school musical and are often redeemed as worthy of love.

779
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: Again Rosalie Hill Twilight Series. I love it, and you

780
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: know what, I think it's working. I think this kind

781
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 2: of ideal is working in the fact that the audience

782
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 2: is demanding more because again there's great films in children's

783
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: movies like Encanto that bring a different level to the trope,

784
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 2: which does uphold kindness as they write. But yes, there

785
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: is a lot to be said about the evolution of

786
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 2: the mean girl and a lot of work to be

787
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: done again, like the whole sexual like the mean girl

788
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 2: needs to be sexual experience and sexual as a part

789
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: of being cool. Interesting way of going and I know

790
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: there are a lot that we may not have tackled,

791
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 2: and there are so many other references we haven't touched on,

792
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 2: but it is interesting to see how these dated tropes

793
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: have evolved as time passes, and hopefully here's to see

794
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: more encouraging adaptations of the mean girl, which honestly probably

795
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: should be renamed by now, but they you know whatever.

796
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think it's interesting that because women are

797
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: so expected to be so nice that mean girls have

798
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: a lot of fans at a lot of the more

799
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: recent one and have a lot of fans.

800
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 2: And we didn't really go into the queer Yeah, heard

801
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 2: of it again, ran out of time because I feel

802
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: like that might be just a Monday mini honest.

803
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: Well, something to look forward to. So much to touch

804
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: on here, but what listeners, We would love to hear

805
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: your favorite examples, yeah, yes, or your thoughts about this.

806
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff India Mom, stuff at

807
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

808
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: most of podcasts, on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've

809
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have a

810
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: tea public store, and we have a book you can

811
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: get wherever you get your books things as always too,

812
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: our super producer, Christina executive producer My and our contributor Joey.

813
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff

814
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. For more

815
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