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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 1: show for everybody today, We have Crystal.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we do lots of breaking news to get to

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Speaker 2: this morning. So first and foremoths most is fed independence

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Speaker 2: over Trump has fired one of the members of the

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Speaker 2: Federal Reserve Board, so we'll take a look at all

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Speaker 2: of that and how markets are reacting. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: we also have some economic news from India. Basically they

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Speaker 2: are saying screw you to our attempt to cajole them

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Speaker 2: into not consuming Russian oil. So very consequential as well.

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Speaker 2: Dave Weigel is going to join us from Minneapolis to

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Speaker 2: break down the Dems DNC summer meeting and see how

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Speaker 2: they are groppling with their existential crisis.

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Speaker 3: You don't want to miss that.

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Speaker 2: One Kilmar Abrego Garcia was released that he was re arrested.

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Speaker 2: He's now threatened with deportation to Uganda. Ongoing court battle.

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Speaker 2: Break all of that down for you. Israel is expressing

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Speaker 2: regret after they murdered a number of journalists and also

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Speaker 2: aid workers after an attack on a double tap attack

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Speaker 2: on a hospital, and the free press very wise's free

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Speaker 2: press very upset with.

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Speaker 3: Us, So I have to get into that. Yeah, we'll

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Speaker 3: tell you why.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, very sometimes I have to tell the truth about

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Speaker 1: your bullshit valuation. Appreciate that. Speaking of that, by the way,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much to everybody who's been signing up

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Speaker 1: to support us, we've got monthly and yearly memberships, and

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Speaker 1: of course we're doing our AMA Live for our premium subscribers.

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Speaker 4: Today.

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Speaker 1: I'm told that everything technically should be working out, so

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Speaker 1: before I speak too soon, I hope that that's the case. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: as you can see, we're always on top of it.

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Speaker 1: If you can't afford it, no worries, Please just go

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Speaker 1: be this one in particular. It really helps us grow.

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Speaker 1: So with all of that, as Crystal said, let's get

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Speaker 1: to the Federal Reserve. Some late breaking news last night,

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Speaker 1: late for me at least. Let's go and put this

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Speaker 1: up there on the screen. Donald Trump issuing a new

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Speaker 1: letter to doctor Lisa Cook, a member of the Board

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Speaker 1: of Governors of the United States Federal Reserve. He says, quote,

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Speaker 1: in light of your deceitful and potentially criminal conduct in

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Speaker 1: a financial matter, that cannot and I do not have

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Speaker 1: such confidence in your integrity. At a minimum, the conduct

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Speaker 1: of your issue exhibits the sort of gross negligence and

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Speaker 1: financial transactions that calls into question your confidence and trustworthiness

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Speaker 1: as a financial regulator. I think we can safely say

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Speaker 1: Trump is using a pretext of alleged mortgage fraud by

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Speaker 1: doctor Cook as to fire her from the Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not even going to get into the Federal

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Speaker 1: Reserve like the mortgage stuff, because honestly, even they know

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Speaker 1: that it's not the real cause for firing. This is

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Speaker 1: about the fat Now let's explain hearing about the Board

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Speaker 1: of Governors for the Federal Reserve. Trump has had a

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Speaker 1: long standing feud with Jerome Powell over their refusal to

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Speaker 1: lower interest rates. Powell did say recently in his meeting

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Speaker 1: that he would consider a rate cut coming up in

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Speaker 1: the future, which sent the stock market up some two percent,

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Speaker 1: but that is not even close to the liking of

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Now, previously, a member of the Federal Reserve

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Speaker 1: Board had actually resigned, which allowed Trump to fill that seat.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons why Trump in particular wants to

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Speaker 1: get rid of Cook is that she was one of

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Speaker 1: the more controlling votes on backing Jerome Powell's strategy, Whereas

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Speaker 1: if she is gone, that would actually give Trump not

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Speaker 1: control per se, but people who share his views of

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Speaker 1: the on the Federal Reserve Board, which would influence it

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Speaker 1: to direction of the overall interest rate cut. So there

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Speaker 1: has been a lot of market reaction to this Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about this in a bit, but the Federal Reserve,

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Speaker 1: amongst the markets and amongst the economists, is the sacrisanct institution.

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Speaker 1: You can't touch it, you can't even say anything about it,

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Speaker 1: and that explains some of the market movement. Now as

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Speaker 1: a result, let's going to put this up here on

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Speaker 1: the screen. For example, immediately after the announcement, you saw

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Speaker 1: this large dip in the United States a dollar. We

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Speaker 1: can put the Wall Street Journal story up here on

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Speaker 1: the screen. It's actually quite interesting the way they put it.

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Speaker 1: They say, quote uncharted waters. Trump's attempt to take charge

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Speaker 1: here of the FED, the intention to fire him could

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Speaker 1: give sway over the Central Bank's rate setting power. So again,

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Speaker 1: let's just hammer home that is what this entire fight

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Speaker 1: is all about. Now. Doctor Cook has actually responded to

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Speaker 1: this and has said that she has not been fired,

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Speaker 1: that she will be contesting this in court. This will

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Speaker 1: all come down to the Supreme Court, most likely over

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Speaker 1: Trump's ability to influence the FED. It is actually very complicated.

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Speaker 1: There was a recent Supreme Court reeling about the quasi

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Speaker 1: legal status of the Federal Reserve, where the president does

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Speaker 1: not have the unilateral authority to remove somebody just because

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Speaker 1: he doesn't like what they're doing, but does have the

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Speaker 1: authority to remove somebody quote for a cause, hence the

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Speaker 1: mortgage fraud or whatever. And maybe it is true, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but my point is just that's the reason.

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Speaker 1: Now this is a more open for discussion type of

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Speaker 1: thing where I think there are a lot of actually

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Speaker 1: very interesting views that have spent all morning kind of engaging

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Speaker 1: with them about the role of the Federal Reserve itself.

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Speaker 1: And there, as I said on Wall Street and amongst

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Speaker 1: the conventional economists, like federal reserve independence is sacrifcanct. It's

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Speaker 1: not supposed to be democratic. I personally have a very

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Speaker 1: very different view of that. I think the current worry,

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Speaker 1: even amongst people who share my view, is that this

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Speaker 1: will just be trumpy into its most extent, which could

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Speaker 1: result in financial disaster. And I'm not writing that off

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Speaker 1: at all. So anyway, where.

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Speaker 2: I find myself that's the thing is like this is

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Speaker 2: a Trumpian power grab, like consistent with the taking a

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Speaker 2: stake in the Intel and with the tariffs and with

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Speaker 2: you know, the crackdown in DC. You know, this is

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Speaker 2: this is Trump consolidating even more power, And so while

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Speaker 2: even with pushing, even if he's able to push doctor

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Speaker 2: Cook off of the board, he still won't technically gain

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Speaker 2: like control with his people on the board.

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Speaker 3: What is he doing?

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Speaker 2: He's setting an example, right, everybody knows that this mortgage

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Speaker 2: fraud thing is bullshit. Whether or not it's true, it's bullshit.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't pertain to her job whatsoever. By the way,

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump, of everybody knows a little thing or two

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Speaker 2: about mortgage fraud.

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Speaker 1: Like wait, I thought, I thought he just got vacated, right,

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Speaker 1: I just got vacated in the state of New York.

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Speaker 1: He's been vindicated, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean the guy who're like red bragged about lying

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Speaker 2: about how much various assets were worth in order to

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Speaker 2: obtain a look that he wanted.

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Speaker 1: Concern myself with the value of mar Lago personally, but

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Speaker 1: in any.

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Speaker 2: Case, in any case, as you said, I think we

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Speaker 2: can all acknowledge this as a pretext. And every other

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Speaker 2: member of the fed Bord of Governors is going to

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Speaker 2: know this is a pretext and know that they themselves

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Speaker 2: are also vulnerable if they don't just shut up and do.

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Speaker 3: What Trump wants.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's the same thing when we talked to

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Speaker 2: Shahead yesterday who got fired from the State Department, and

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Speaker 2: he said the same thing. You know, this was about yes,

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Speaker 2: getting me out, but it was also about sending a

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Speaker 2: message to everyone else in the building. So I think

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Speaker 2: that through that lens of Trump's authoritarian instincts and constant

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Speaker 2: desire to accumulate more and more power for himself, that

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Speaker 2: is the lens through which.

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Speaker 3: We should view these actions.

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Speaker 2: Let me talk a little bit about the court piece

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Speaker 2: that you referenced. Doctor Cook is saying I'm not going

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Speaker 2: anywhere because you didn't legally fire me, and I think

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Speaker 2: she has a pretty strong legal case to make their

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Speaker 2: even given the makeup of this Supreme Court and their

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Speaker 2: willingness to accept a lot of arguments from the Trump administration.

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Speaker 2: They had issued a previous ruling and had to do

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Speaker 2: with a different agescent armor for this NLRB or the CFPB,

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Speaker 2: but it had to do with another one where it

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, well, can Trump just come in and

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Speaker 2: get rid of someone just because he feels like it,

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Speaker 2: or it was a similarly structured sort of independent quasi

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Speaker 2: independent agency, or do they have to go through a process?

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Speaker 2: Does there have to be caused, does they have to

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Speaker 2: go through Congress et cetera. And they sided with the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration on that firing, but in their justification they

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Speaker 2: put in this sort of like Carvat like, eh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but the FED is different for reasons. So that's why

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Speaker 2: a lot of people are looking at this and thinking

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Speaker 2: that it is possible that the Supreme Court comes in

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Speaker 2: and says you can't actually do this. And it also

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Speaker 2: you know, when they say, okay, you can fire someone

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Speaker 2: on the FED Board of Governors for cause, that cause

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Speaker 2: is supposed to be relevant to their job, not some

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Speaker 2: like paperwork error a mortgage application. So that's the sort

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Speaker 2: of like that's the legal piece. But yeah, the reason

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Speaker 2: why people are freaking out is because a lot of

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Speaker 2: a lot of analysts look at this as basically, this

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Speaker 2: is the end of FED independence because of the coercion

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Speaker 2: that you're using in this regard. Jerome Pal's term is

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Speaker 2: going to be up in another year, so he's going

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Speaker 2: to have his FED chair, He's going to have a

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Speaker 2: board of governors that is going to be more amenable

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Speaker 2: to him. He's going to have used his power to

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Speaker 2: discipline them, and so he will effectively be able to

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Speaker 2: do whatever he wants, whether that's in the country's interest,

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Speaker 2: the world's interest, capital's interest, his interest, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you. I mean, look, I understand your concerns.

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Speaker 1: I still think degrading the principle is a good thing.

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Speaker 1: For example, if anyone hasn't never read it, I highly

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Speaker 1: recommend Jonathan Alter. He's a very neoliberal guy, but he

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Speaker 1: wrote a book about Jimmy Carter. It's probably the best

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Speaker 1: Carter biography I've ever written, what I've ever read. What

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Speaker 1: I was struck by is that Alter worships Jimmy Carter

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Speaker 1: for having the wherewithal to appoint Vulgar as his Federal

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Speaker 1: Reserve chair, who basically destroyed the economy and it caused

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Speaker 1: a recession in nineteen eighty. Look, I don't think the

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Speaker 1: economy is the only reason Carter lost, Like, I think

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Speaker 1: it's a big, you know, reason why. And reading that,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, Carter was an idiot. I'm like, this

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Speaker 1: is a disastrous idea. By the way, I don't even

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Speaker 1: think the whole vocar thing that everyone looks at it

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Speaker 1: as a good idea. I don't even think that's basically

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Speaker 1: even true.

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Speaker 2: Are you can put that all basically crushed old labor permanent.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Like, if you go back and

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Speaker 1: you look at it, you're like, wait, this was a disaster.

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Speaker 1: So my point is that this is all in the

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Speaker 1: context of the quote independent Fed. Is the independent FED

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Speaker 1: doing a good job? I would say no, And I

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Speaker 1: think there are a lot of people who think that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even if you look at the way that

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Speaker 1: we've done and had inflation over the last four years,

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Speaker 1: We've had supply side inflation and the only response we've

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Speaker 1: had is crushed the demand side, which has been in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, devastating for a lot of households, on top

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Speaker 1: of the overall housing SKU which is happening right now

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Speaker 1: for a mortgage rates. So yeah, I'm like, oh, we're

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Speaker 1: going to go after the FED. Great, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think the FED should have a lot more democratic control.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna say that is definitely going to cause

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Speaker 1: some little blips, all right, I'll admit that. And this

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Speaker 1: is my point where I want the liberals who are

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Speaker 1: anti Trump to grapple with. Is the smart set of

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Speaker 1: the people I'm reading people like Adam Too's and others

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Speaker 1: are like, yes, we are now entering the realm of

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Speaker 1: democratic control of the FED. And that doctor Cook and

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Speaker 1: Jerome Powell and all these oose they come from that

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Speaker 1: vulgar style school with their theories about how the FED

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Speaker 1: should operate. I think that has been genuinely disastrous for

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Speaker 1: the American people. Has been so disastrous for Wall Street

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Speaker 1: or for American industry, but the people themselves have suffered

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Speaker 1: as a result of this policy. So I'd like to

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Speaker 1: think of it here where I think there's great risk

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Speaker 1: with Trump trying to take control. I will fully acknowledge that,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about Aradowan and all of that in

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Speaker 1: the future. And I already know the economists listening that's

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Speaker 1: ripping their hair out. But I mean, you have to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that, at a very basic level, monetorism and debates

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Speaker 1: over monetary policy were fundamental to the American Republic for

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Speaker 1: almost a century, and we lost that after the independent

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Speaker 1: FED was established. We need to go back. I mean,

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Speaker 1: remember the William Jennings Bryan speech. I used to have

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Speaker 1: a post s of im back here at mankind shall

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Speaker 1: not be crucified upon a cross of gold silver. This

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Speaker 1: was central farmers at an individual level, understood the medium

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Speaker 1: of exchange. The greenback itself was deeply controversial. People argued

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Speaker 1: about this because they understood that the exchange and the

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Speaker 1: value of money was directly impacting them in their goods.

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Speaker 1: And now we have moved that off to this you

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Speaker 1: know temple here in Washington. So I say, let's go

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Speaker 1: back to it so we can actually debate. People should

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Speaker 1: be more well versed, not only just in the policy,

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Speaker 1: gold stand or whatever. We can all argue about it,

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Speaker 1: but the point has to be more fundamental as to

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Speaker 1: not let it in the hands of the quote experts.

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Speaker 1: Because you know, people say there's a lot of risk

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Speaker 1: with Trump. I agree, I'm totally being real, but there's

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Speaker 1: also a risk to the current strategy. The risk is

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Speaker 1: every single day these interest rates stay at six seven percent,

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Speaker 1: somebody's not buying a house, putting off family formation, destroying

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Speaker 1: I mean the home builders. The interest rates right now

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Speaker 1: are crushing the economy. And yeah, you can look at

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Speaker 1: GDP and everything else, it's all fake, especially when we

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Speaker 1: consider that the vast majority of the only reason that

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Speaker 1: we even have decent enough GDP numbers is because these

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Speaker 1: AI companies are spending you know, all gobloads of money

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Speaker 1: trying to create all these data centers. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: like my big picture view out of all of this.

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Speaker 1: You can always acknowledge that Trump can screw it all up,

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Speaker 1: and if anything, he might negatively polarize the idea of

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Speaker 1: democratic control. Very very possible, very bossible. But I'm willing

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Speaker 1: to have the fight. I think it's important. I can't

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Speaker 1: stand these experts on CNBC and other like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: free market and all this is bullshit.

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Speaker 2: Part of the reason why the FED is taking the

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Speaker 2: course that it is is because Trump's economic policy has

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Speaker 2: put them in a complete and total bind where we

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Speaker 2: are now heading towards stagflation, which is basically impossible for

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Speaker 2: the FED to be able to deal with because it goes, okay,

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Speaker 2: you lift interest rates, then you know, to get inflation

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Speaker 2: under control. Then you you know, screw the economy in

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Speaker 2: the labor market. You lower interest rates to juice GDP

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Speaker 2: juice the labor market, and you end up with potential hyperinflation.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I don't want to, like, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to let Trump off the hook for the disastrous

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Speaker 2: economic policyape that changing, Yeah, the disaster's economic policy that

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Speaker 2: he's pursued that has led to an impossible policy landscape

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Speaker 2: for the FED in order to you know, so I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's crazy that Jerome Powell has said, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm just kind of hold steady for now given the

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Speaker 2: uncertainty in the economic landscape. The other thing is we

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Speaker 2: also have to acknowledge we put up the you know,

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Speaker 2: the dollar falling off a cliff. This there is going

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Speaker 2: to be very likely significant short term pain if analysts

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Speaker 2: continue to assess that this is going to be like

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Speaker 2: the end of FED independence. The dollar dropping means that

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Speaker 2: it is more expensive for you to pay for imports,

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Speaker 2: That's what it means, and we import a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff. At the same time, we don't have a

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Speaker 2: chart for this. At the same time, the interest rate,

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Speaker 2: the yield on Treasury bonds is going up. What does

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Speaker 2: that mean? That means things like your mortgage are going

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Speaker 2: to be even more expensive than they already are. So

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Speaker 2: the short term fallout of this move is going to

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Speaker 2: be devastating in a time when Americans already have lost

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Speaker 2: confidence in Trump's business acumen. And I think that this

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Speaker 2: is one of the most significant blows to Trump's brand

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Speaker 2: and his image is that people have lost faith in

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Speaker 2: his economic stewardship.

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Speaker 3: So I don't think that, you know, I don't know how.

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Speaker 2: Much people are going to vote based on like this

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Speaker 2: sort of technical was the FED independent and who got

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Speaker 2: fired and whatever. But if you were looking for a

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Speaker 2: moment when people have confidence in saying, oh it just

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Speaker 2: handed to Trump, put it in Trump's hands. We elected

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Speaker 2: him because we trust him, because he's a good businessman,

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Speaker 2: this is certainly not that moment.

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Speaker 1: Look, I again, I accept that I would disagree a

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Speaker 1: little bit on the tariff part, just because a lot

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Speaker 1: of the inflation is not yet shown up. That's mostly

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Speaker 1: because some of the tariffs, supiit to be fake in

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Speaker 1: terms of the way that they're being set up. I

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Speaker 1: mean even on the dollar. So yeah, it's point zero

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Speaker 1: it's fell by point zero three percent. It's not like devastating,

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Speaker 1: it's not like full blown. Probably because she said that

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Speaker 1: she's going to fight it. It could be. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: dispute the bond market part. That's definitely possible. We're not

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Speaker 1: yet sure how that's all going to work. And yes,

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Speaker 1: you know the institutional investors, markets, to Bank of Japan,

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Speaker 1: all these other people, they absolutely could force Trump's hand.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to put any of that out, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I just have to come back to looking

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Speaker 1: at the way that they talk about both the FED

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Speaker 1: and worship at its altar without ever acknowledging all of

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Speaker 1: the downside. Yes, Trump, I think is a very imperfect

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Speaker 1: messenger in all of this, and everyone's comparing it to Erdowan.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's fine, we can we can do that.

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Speaker 1: Let's put a five please up on the screen. For example,

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Speaker 1: this was about inflation in Turkey.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the.

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Speaker 1: Person who put this chart together is like, what happens

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Speaker 1: when a strong man with idiosyncre preference for interest rates

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Speaker 1: undermines a central bank and appointsil Justilvers.

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Speaker 3: Who's a liberal economy?

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Speaker 1: Is? This is the conventional view. And again I think

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Speaker 1: that's fair because it's Trump. But I do think that

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Speaker 1: the actual question should still remain there. And you know,

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Speaker 1: to your point, nobody in the world is going to

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Speaker 1: vote on Okay, not nobody, They'll all be the economy.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the fat That's my thing about Vulgar.

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Speaker 1: People didn't necessarily vote about Carter appointing Vulgar, but when

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Speaker 1: the interest rate was not I think what was it,

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Speaker 1: nineteen to twenty percent. At one point they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: fuck this, I mean, I'm not dealing with this. And

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Speaker 1: like you said, whenever organized labor and all those people

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Speaker 1: literally got destroyed and we had a full blown recession

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Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty to what is until nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah, they were not very happy

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Speaker 1: about it, And that's kind of my point. More broadly is,

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Speaker 1: you know, people who kind of follow and look at

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Speaker 1: all this stuff for a living are deeply familiar with

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Speaker 1: the inner workings of the Board of Governors. But every

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Speaker 1: single one of us deals with this every single day.

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Speaker 1: I mean, every person who doesn't get a raise because

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Speaker 1: the borrowing costs is too high from their company, every

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Speaker 1: company that decides and not to invest more in infrastructure

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Speaker 1: or whatever because you know, again the interest rates are high,

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Speaker 1: every person who doesn't buy a house, every person who

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Speaker 1: wants to move but is locked into a low interest rate.

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Speaker 1: All of us are experiencing the Federal Reserve for what

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Speaker 1: it is, and so at a basic level, I do

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Speaker 1: think making it quote democratic and impacted by overall democratic

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Speaker 1: politics is important. Otherwise we'll get vulgared Again, that's basically

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Speaker 1: what Powell and then wanted to do. You know, they

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Speaker 1: didn't go they didn't go as extreme, but they close enough,

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Speaker 1: I mean, went from zero to seven. Like it was

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Speaker 1: a genuine shock for a generation that lived with ten

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Speaker 1: years of zero. Interesting.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that this were about to your argument,

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Speaker 2: but I mean, Vulgar himself was a democratic expression since

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Speaker 2: it was that was Jimmy Carter getting the policy that

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Speaker 2: he wanted, I guess.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but part of the problem kind of. So

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Speaker 1: my point though, is that if you read the book,

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Speaker 1: when Carter interviews him, Vulker's like, I'm gonna have to

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Speaker 1: do some things which are going to make you very unpopular.

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Speaker 1: They're going to, you know, do this is this, And

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Speaker 1: Carter's like, well, is it the right thing to do?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, yes, sir, it's the right thing to do.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, let's do it. Then I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do, first of all, but

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Speaker 1: second is politically incredibly foolish. But if you would ask

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Speaker 1: the American people, is that how you want to deal

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Speaker 1: with inflation, I think most of them would have said no.

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Speaker 2: So, like my point, yeah, I mean, it's not like

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Speaker 2: we're putting the FED chair to a democratic mass vote.

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Speaker 2: We're putting it in the hands of whoever the president. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and I mean that. And that is what happened with Carter.

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Speaker 2: He decided, I'm democratically elected, I believe this isn't the

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Speaker 2: best interest of the country, even though it's going to

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Speaker 2: cause all sorts of pain, even though it's likely to

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Speaker 2: screw over labor and farmers and all these different groups.

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Speaker 2: So I mean you, that was probably the sort of

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Speaker 2: most directly democratic influence on the FED chair that we've had,

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Speaker 2: and in my opinion, it was a disaster.

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Speaker 1: I I don't I kind of see how you're getting there.

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Speaker 1: I would actually kind of flip it, because what he

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Speaker 1: decided was that even though he knew literally that it

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Speaker 1: was going to be democratically unpopular, he decided to do

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Speaker 1: it because he trusted the economic establishment. I'm saying, let's

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Speaker 1: do the opposite. We actually shouldn't do it that right.

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Speaker 2: I mean in a similar way that I don't have

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Speaker 2: confidence in Jimmy Carner to, you know, make those decisions.

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Speaker 2: I also don't have confidence in Donald Trump to be

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Speaker 2: like looking out for the best interests of the American public,

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Speaker 2: or handling this in any sort of a fashion that

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Speaker 2: you know, reflects what people would actually want or what

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Speaker 2: would be beneficial, et cetera. I mean, I fully admit

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Speaker 2: that for me this is complicated because I agree with

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Speaker 2: the points you make about the FED being subjected to

434
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 2: the democratic will. You know, I think that's sort of

435
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,919
Speaker 2: like a fundamental populist principle frankly, and the idea that

436
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 2: it has to be Oh, you guys just don't understand

437
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 2: it has to be handled by this contrey.

438
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: It's like, no, we do want I.

439
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 3: Really reject that.

440
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 2: In the same respect, I see the way that this

441
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 2: is just like another Trumpian power grab with the president,

442
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 2: who I think is you know, an authoritarian fascist that

443
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: I have zero trust for.

444
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: So that's perfect, that's fine. Then you can continue to

445
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: but you express yourself in the election. So did I,

446
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: so did many others, and we got h what we got,

447
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: the one percent, you know, popular vote. You can vote

448
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: again if you want to, and then we'll see how

449
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: that works out. The problem that I've been seeing for

450
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: a lot of these Democrats is they're like, no, we

451
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: must stand with the sacrisanct FED and I'm like, yeah,

452
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: that's why you guys are much of losers, okay, because

453
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 1: you're going to come into office and you're going to

454
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: pull a carter again and you're going to be like, oh, well,

455
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: the experts told us this is what we're going to do,

456
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 1: and then Trump or somebody else is going to beat

457
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: your ass again in the election.

458
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: I think more like why, I mean, we'll see what

459
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: the economic fall on is. That's what the vulnerability is

460
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 2: for Trump. Not the you know, mechanics of fed independence,

461
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 2: but do people feel like things are getting better or

462
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 2: do people feel like things are getting worse? And I

463
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: think there is a decent chance that in the short

464
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 2: term this sets individual Americans back economically and makes the

465
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 2: landscape even tougher for.

466
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: Fastball by in six months. If the interest rate gets

467
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: dropped ahead of the elect which you know, if I

468
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: were a politician, was the first thing I'm gonna do.

469
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna slash that interest rate by by half leading

470
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 1: up to the midterms. Boom it be boom times all

471
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: over Wall Street, in the housing market and everywhere. Pretty

472
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 1: much everyone I think would be happy. So you know,

473
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: it could people have short memories as well, especially if

474
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: you do it right before the election, which again I

475
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 1: still can't believe Carter was dumb enough to do this

476
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: in August of seventy nine before the November nineteen eighty election.

477
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: It boggles the mind.

478
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: But again, you're assuming that an interest rate cut would

479
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: not come with corresponding inflation. And we know the way

480
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: that inflation, I mean inflation destroyed not just the Biden administration,

481
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 2: but destroyed incumbent administrations around.

482
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: The world definitely. I mean again, the reason I don't

483
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: think it would is because I still think a lot

484
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: of it is supply side. Even the inflation today, the

485
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: vast majority of his supply side what's the coffee cup

486
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: I'm drinking is roughly up by like fifty percent? Why

487
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 1: is that? Is it because of because of the stary bingo?

488
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: Because this is because of tariff policy, and because of

489
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: a devastating storm in Brazil. That's it. So it's a

490
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: supply side factor and or a government policy factor. The

491
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: Trumpet government can you know, can do that. But there's

492
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: not a fundamental like reason, at least in my opinion.

493
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: Why you know there is a quote so much inflation

494
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: or if you look at all the categories which have

495
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: experienced the vast majority of inflation. Most of it is

496
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 1: policy and supply side driven. Anyway, we'll keep that in mind.

497
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 1: Let's go to India, shall We've been wanting to cover

498
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: this story for a while and just give everybody an update,

499
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: you know. So Trump officially has written into the federal

500
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: record that tariffs on India will go into effect tomorrow,

501
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: fifty percent import duties on all goods from India because

502
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: they continue to buy oil from Russia. So of course,

503
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: the conventional view was, oh my god, India, they can't

504
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: stand this. They're gonna buckle immediately. Yeah, not happening. Let's

505
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: go and put this up here on the screen. Here's

506
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: the latest from New Delhi.

507
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 4: Quote.

508
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: India will buy oil from wherever it gets the best deal.

509
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: According to their envoy from Russia. They say they will

510
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 1: go continue to protect the interests of their one point

511
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: four billion people. According to their ambassador for Russia, they've

512
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: disregarded the economic leverage from the United States. New Delhi

513
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: media has turned dramatically against the Trump administration. They're literally

514
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: burning Trump in effigy, which will show you perhaps in

515
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: a little bit, but more broadly, Peter Navarro, the entire

516
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: administration has decided that India, who is the second largest

517
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: purchaser of Russian oil, not China, is apparently the villain

518
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: here for reasons that remain completely mystifying. They at the

519
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: same time want to end the war in Ukraine, but

520
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: on the other side of their mouth are pursuing the

521
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: neo conservative fever dream of punishing other countries, strategically important countries,

522
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: for buying Russian oil. So, okay, I guess that makes

523
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Here's Peter Navarro, the trade guru,

524
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: going off on India, which, by the way, this interview

525
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: has gone massively viral in India from what I have seen.

526
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

527
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 5: There's a general perception that somehow India needs Russian oil

528
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 5: find to basically power its domestic economy. But that's wrong.

529
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 5: What's going on is the Russian refiners got in bed

530
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 5: with the Indian refiners. Russia offers these refiners a steep

531
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 5: discount on the crude and they partner with the Indian

532
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 5: refiners and then they sell the refined products at premium

533
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 5: prices to Afro Asia and Europe, and that funds the

534
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 5: war machine. What that means is that we wind up

535
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 5: having to pay more. Europe has to pay more for defense,

536
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 5: the US have to send Ukraine more. And it's because

537
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 5: of the Indian profittereian And think about what India is

538
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 5: doing to the United States, right, It steals our jobs,

539
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 5: it slows down our growth with their unfair trade practices. Okay,

540
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 5: so we take a hit there. And then when it

541
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 5: gets into this profitterian scheme Withrussia to send oil to

542
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 5: basically the Kremlin laundromat for the for their crude oil.

543
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 5: Basically it forces US taxpayers to pay more to help

544
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 5: Ukraine in the warst India needs to. It needs to

545
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 5: stand up here for the for the world, for democracy.

546
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 5: It's the biggest democracy in the world by the amount

547
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 5: of people, and it's basically in bed with the Russians,

548
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 5: and that's not conducive to peace. If India tomorrow stop

549
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 5: buying Russian oil, that would go a long way towards

550
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 5: getting putin to the ultimate yes that we need. They

551
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 5: don't create a lot of jobs, They just profiteers. So

552
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 5: that's that's wrong, as is the high tariffs and non

553
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 5: tarif fairers and in charges. I mean, look, they can

554
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 5: keep doing what they're doing, but Donald Trump is going

555
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 5: to keep doing what he's doing, and that's going to

556
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 5: mean the high tariffs, uh to stop them from selling

557
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 5: Russian oil, buying Russian oil, and high tariffs they get

558
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 5: their trade down.

559
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, might as well have voted for Joe Biden, you know,

560
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: I mean, Indiana's got to stand. Why who gives a

561
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: shit if the oil comes from a democracy? You're not you? Yeah,

562
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: all of our oils coming from a democracy, Crystal? Did you?

563
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: Were you aware of that? I had no idea that

564
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: we only bought oil from democracies.

565
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: Okay, there's there's another question she asked, and like, okay,

566
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 2: but India said they're not going to do this, and

567
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: he gives.

568
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: I mean, he just sort of like changes the subject.

569
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 2: But it reminds very much of It recalls very much

570
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: when Biden was asked this question about the policy visa e.

571
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: The who thies and he was like, is it going

572
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 3: to work?

573
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 6: No?

574
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 3: Is it going to continue?

575
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: Yes?

576
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 3: And this is basically what Navara was like.

577
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 2: I was like, well, India's going to do what they're

578
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 2: going to do, but here's what we want them to do.

579
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, but they they're not going to do that.

580
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: So now you're just putting tariffs on this country, damaging

581
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: your relationship, like trashing your relationship with them, turning in

582
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: country that was previously pretty like pro American against America altogether.

583
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: And by the way, I mean those territs that you're

584
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: loving on India are going to have impacts again on

585
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: American consumers.

586
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 3: All to do what accomplish literally nothing?

587
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it's the point. Oh and how is that?

588
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: How is the maximum pressure going? By the way, are

589
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: we closer to peace? Yeah? No, can we go in

590
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: and put B four up here on the screen? Shocker?

591
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: Lavrov says no plan for a Putin Zelenski meeting. In fact,

592
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: he basically was like, Zelensky is illegitimate. We're not even

593
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: sure if we really need to meet with him. So yeah,

594
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: we're actually a lot closer after the Putin summit. And

595
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: this is all because you know, Trump is basically embraced

596
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: this neo kon framing on India specifically, not China. Just

597
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: so we're all aware, the actual geopolitical adversary, the one

598
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: that buys most of the Russian oil, nope, completely is

599
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: actually getting a free pass. They're Chinese negotiators on the

600
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: way over here. Sure the tariffs and the trade duties remain,

601
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: but there's so many exclusions. He's talking nothing but nicely

602
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: about China. It's like the opposite of how you would

603
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: want to conduct this. And by the way, again, this

604
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: is presumes that the war in Ukraine is such a

605
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: fundamental interest that the United States should tear if one

606
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: of its top ten trading partners fifty percent higher than

607
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: any of the duty than any other country to make

608
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: it to try and bring about peace in Ukraine. Oh

609
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: and by the way, that's not even working. Like you know,

610
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: in every single step of the logic chain, it all

611
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: falls apart. This is the same problem with the entire

612
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: administration strategy right now. They go tough on Japan, on Korea,

613
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: and India, soft on China. You should flip it. Those

614
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: three are the ones that you want on your side

615
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: if you want to quote isolate China and or pivot

616
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: to Asia. You want great trading relationships all around the

617
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: Asia Pacific, making sure that these are rock solid, happy

618
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: US allies or strategic partners, and then you use your

619
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: leverage on the Chinese government to try and extract some benefit. Instead,

620
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: we're quite literally doing the opposite. I mean, Trump just yesterday.

621
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm loving this too. You know, the immigration restriction crowd

622
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: is and wild because Trump said yesterday that part of

623
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: his deal with the Chinese is he's going to allow

624
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: six hundred thousand Chinese students to come and study in

625
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: the United States. Let's take a listen to that.

626
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 6: President, She would like me to come to China. It's

627
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 6: a very important relationship. As you know, we're taking a

628
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 6: lot of money in from China because of the tariffs

629
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 6: and different things, and it's a very important relationship. We're

630
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 6: going to get along good with China. Are hearsed so

631
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 6: many stories about we're not going to allow their students,

632
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 6: So we're going to.

633
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 4: Allow their students to come in.

634
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 6: We're going to allow It's very important. Six hundred thousand students,

635
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 6: it's very important. But we're going to get along with China.

636
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 6: But it's a different relationship that we have now with China.

637
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 6: It's a much better relationship economically than it was before.

638
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 4: With Biden.

639
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 6: What he allowed that, I mean, they just took him

640
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 6: to the cleaners.

641
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, six started the administration, which is America

642
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: First once and as attacking universities for not being pro

643
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: Israel enough is now going to be overrun by Chinese.

644
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: I support it, I'm sure you do, but that's not

645
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: what people look it up.

646
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: Right now, there's roughly three hundred thousand Chinese students in

647
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: the country, so this would be a doubling of the

648
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: number that are here.

649
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: And it's it comes on the heels up. He says.

650
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: This thing in that clip, which is funny to me,

651
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: is like somebody said we're not going to let him in.

652
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: It's like that was Marco Rubio, your Secretary State, who said,

653
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: we're going to be you know, screening all the visas.

654
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: We're not going to let you know, anyone who has

655
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: any ties the Communists, the Chinese Communist.

656
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: Party, blah blah blah.

657
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: And so Trump's like, now we're gonna let We're going

658
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: to double the number that come in. The defense that

659
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: was given of this to buy Hasid, I want to

660
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: say it was nik I can't remember anyway. One of

661
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: them was basically like, well, if you don't let the

662
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: Chinese students in, then the like bottom tier schools and

663
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: the country is basically gonna fail. God was there was

664
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: their analysis, But in any case, I mean, my own

665
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: personal view is that in addition to the extraordinary exorbitant

666
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: privilege that we get from the dollar being the global

667
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: reserve currency, the other major advantage that the US has

668
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: long had is that the top students from the around

669
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: the world want to come here, and oftentimes after they

670
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: study here and get their degree, oftentimes they stay. And

671
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: so we benefit from this, you know, global ability to

672
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 2: attract some of the top students in top minds from

673
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: around the world. And President Trump apparently feels the same

674
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: and embracing that soccer.

675
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. You got to square that with what

676
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: you just said, which is that if the ten to

677
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: fifteen percent of the bottom tier universities are going to

678
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: fall out because they can't get Chinese students and those

679
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 1: are not the best and the brightest because they're going

680
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: to the bottom tier.

681
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: No, no, but that's not what you actually argue.

682
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: The Chinese students are going to the top students, and

683
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: it's the Americans who.

684
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: Will fill out but get pushed down.

685
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: This is an important thing because it's actually true because

686
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: the Chinese graduate students and others are the ones who

687
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: pay full freight and actually make it so that it

688
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: is disadvantage for most of the people who are American

689
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: citizens to.

690
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: Go No, No, no, quite the opposite. I mean, because they're

691
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: paying full freight. That's what helps to subsidize tuition.

692
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: That a lot of America.

693
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: That is the cope what it actually is true. No,

694
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: it's not true, because what has happened is that tuition

695
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: has act. If that were true, then tuition would go

696
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: down instead, the tuition has gone sky high, quadrupleg.

697
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: But that's because no, But it's.

698
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: Because what happens is that they know the Chinese will

699
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: pay everything, and they also know the US government will

700
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: backstop their student loans. And on top of that, more broadly,

701
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 1: this is this is a more of a question of

702
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: competition and who these slots should go to. Over fifty

703
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: percent of the graduate students in most of these places

704
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: are foreign. Why they don't want to give them to

705
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: Americans because they might have to give them scholarship financially

706
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: and everything. Much easier to admit somebody from China, India,

707
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: anywhere else in the world. Because they'll pay full freight.

708
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: It's massively profitable to the university. None, almost none of

709
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: it goes down to the student. If it were true

710
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: that the money charge.

711
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 3: Then they should do some affirmative action for white people.

712
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: Saga, No, not white people, American this is an affirmative

713
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: action for white people. This is an affirmative action for

714
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: the US citizen. I mean, I don't think that's even

715
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: affirmative action. What American students are getting, you know, easy

716
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: privilege at Shanghai University.

717
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: No, there's no evidence that foreign students are you know,

718
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: getting getting some sort of affirmative action or some sort

719
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: of benefit.

720
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: They do benefit.

721
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: School are foreign then because they pay full freight. But

722
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: you know that actually benefits Americans because it helps to

723
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: lower tuition overall.

724
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: But the why is tuition as high as it is,

725
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense.

726
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: Of course it does because these are run like businesses

727
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: rather than academic institutions. So if you're concerned about the

728
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: price of tuition, then you should support, as I do,

729
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: free public.

730
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: College for all I think, which would be because it was.

731
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 3: Just a great way to provide more equitable access.

732
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: Let's college checks for every bunch of DEI administrators and

733
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: so that the University of Michigan can build more lazy

734
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: rivers for everybody. That's a great idea.

735
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: I thought that the only reason that the tuition was

736
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: going up was because the foreign students.

737
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: Now it's the administrators and the lazy rivers.

738
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: My point is that the high tuition cost these Chinese,

739
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: Indians and all these other people are paying subsidizes yes

740
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: them as well as making sure that the tuition goes

741
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: up up none of Most of it does not go magical,

742
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: most of it doesn't go down to the student. If

743
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: you're paying fifty thousand dollars a year to go to

744
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: college and then the next year or ten years later

745
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: it goes up to seventy five thousand, then it would

746
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: square the circle that the tuition should go down if

747
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: more of the foreign students are coming. The opposite has happened.

748
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: Tuition has universally gone up. Free public college or whatever

749
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: at the current rate would subsidize the massive some forty

750
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: to fifty percent increase in the overall number of administry.

751
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: That's where you have so discuss.

752
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 2: That's where you have to use government policy to keep

753
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: prices reasonable. And right now it's just left to the market.

754
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: It's a laissez faire capitalist system. That's why tuition is

755
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: constantly jacked up, and that's it has really nothing to

756
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: do with foreign students coming in. It has to do

757
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: with what they can get away with, and that's where

758
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: we are, right, Okay, I mean I would just in

759
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: any case. Overall, this comes down to our very different

760
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: view of the benefits of immigration to the country. I

761
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 2: think that, you know, studies prove that immigrants tend to

762
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 2: be a benefit to the country. I think having foreign

763
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: students who are the top their class, who want to

764
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: be able to come here and go to our institutions

765
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: and then contribute to our society, I think that's a

766
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: positive thing, and I'm glad to see that if.

767
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: That were broadly true. Again, okay, maybe that's true with

768
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: the three hundred thousand, although I don't even think that's true,

769
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: So doubling the amount is supposed toly make it better. Look,

770
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: this is also the presumption that our universities are like

771
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: some great place, and that is true at the highest

772
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: of the highest levels, and sometimes at the public level.

773
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 1: But you know, really, what Lutnik gave the game away

774
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 1: is that a lot of these places are just money

775
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: making printing machines. They're not actually giving any real benefit.

776
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: Ten to fifteen ten to fifteen percent cut would probably

777
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: be a good thing, just broadly because they're putting so

778
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: many people in debt and not actually delivering any economic benefit.

779
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: If anything, you should siphon much of that away to

780
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: a trace or something economically viable, valuable to the person

781
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: who's actually going to participate in education. But I mean

782
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: this gets to the whole idea of like why we

783
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: even have forty five percent the foreign student thing? Though,

784
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 1: I mean we should debate and look at it more,

785
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: because there is a ton of evidence it is actually

786
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: increase the cost, not only for the overall US student,

787
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: but and again this is very important, is that it

788
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: is actually making it more competitive for actual citizens also

789
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: because of the transfer from H one B where they

790
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: drive down the overall wage, especially in the engineering category.

791
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: This is like, look, I know the left response is like, okay, fine,

792
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: let's do some wage whatever. At a basic level, it

793
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: is broadly true right now that the current foreign student pipeline,

794
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: especially to Silicon Valley and engineering, is driving down wage

795
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: and making it less competitive for the actual citizens.

796
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: We're also graduates different than college but.

797
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: Only because of the way that the policy is set up,

798
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: the way that H one b's are effectively like an

799
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: indentured servitude with something that you know that I oppose yes,

800
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 2: that's the nature of the post college landscape. That's something

801
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: different than what we're talking about with regard to university admissions.

802
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: So listen, you believe in merit if these you know,

803
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: American citizens should be able to compete with the best

804
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: and brightest in the world.

805
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: No, they shouldn't, because so so our tax So we

806
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: should allow the best in the brightest of the whole

807
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: world to have to compete against our citizens. This is preposterous.

808
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: The university, the American university system is set up for

809
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: the American.

810
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: You know how much muchly not?

811
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: No, it actually should well and why do I, as

812
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: a taxpayer, have to subsidze the University of Virginia. But

813
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: don't take it any of my money.

814
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: You just said.

815
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: They come in and they pay full frate, so you're

816
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: not subsidizing them. The reality is we benefit tremendously from

817
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: attracting the best minds from around the world.

818
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 3: That has been one of them.

819
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: That's not a benefit of a thousand people that we have.

820
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 3: Had as a society.

821
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: And so you know, for for President Trump to embrace that,

822
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: I think is a beautiful thing.

823
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's great. Then if the universe I'll

824
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: tell you. It is if universities want to be purely

825
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: based on merit for citizens and everyone else, don't take

826
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: a die more of my tax dollars every single time

827
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: that I have to pay, or for the state of

828
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: Virginia or anywhere else where you people live. Otherwise, if

829
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: you're going to take our money, then yeah, Actually, your

830
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: education is supposed to work for us. This is kind

831
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: of like the public school thing. Most of the public

832
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: schools supposed work for everybody.

833
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: The support that you give as a taxpayer in Virginia

834
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: that does primarily support. That's why in state tuition is

835
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: so much leser than even out of state tuition, let

836
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: alone what foreign students pay. No.

837
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you, but you're saying you were

838
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: saying that we should be open for that, we should

839
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: have to compete against the whole world. I think it's

840
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: the opposite that makes it much worse.

841
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: And you want to talk about the reasons why tuition

842
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: has gone up. Part of why tuition has gone up

843
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: so much. Part of the story is the fact that

844
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 2: there is actually less tax revenue that's going to support

845
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 2: public educational institutions. This comes from Ronald Reagan pulled a

846
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: bunch of the support from the California system. That has

847
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: happened across the board. It certainly happened in the state

848
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 2: of Virginia, and so that has been part of the

849
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: trend too.

850
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 3: Is pushing the burden on to students.

851
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: Rather than it being something that societally we invest in

852
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: and see as an asset for the country that we

853
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 2: want to see.

854
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: It's part of it. The other part is that we

855
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: backstop student loans and that we let these universities fleece

856
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: the student and the for their you know, lazy rivers

857
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: and their nice fancy new dorms and their cafeterias with

858
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: all their bullshit in it.

859
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 2: We should we should have free public college education in

860
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: my opinion, But to you know, to just end the

861
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: policy of quote unquote backstopping student loans without any sort

862
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: of reform is not going to solve anything. It's just

863
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: going to make things even more difficult for college studs.

864
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: That I wouldn't disagree on. I yeah, I mean, look,

865
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: I think these university endowment should be taxed to help

866
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 1: the vast majority of that benefit should go to student

867
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 1: loan forgiveness, and then from there we can build from

868
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: a different story. But the current system, which I think

869
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: this would just you know, make them make these people

870
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: even more filthy rich over at these universities. I think

871
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: it's a bad idea, And you know, I'm hopeful that

872
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: actually the policy will get reversed, although not entirely helpful

873
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: because Trump decides to punish India instead of China and

874
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: all in Japan and South Korea and all these other people,

875
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: which again it just doesn't make any sense. Same with

876
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: the Philippines, Brazil, all of these countries were literally uniting,

877
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, half of these bricks nations together, even though

878
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: they were all squabbling before.

879
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, that was with Jeffrey's professor, Jeffrey Sachs. You

880
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: guys shoul watch that interview week.

881
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:10,439
Speaker 1: It made such a good point.

882
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: He was so I guess shocked, not really disgusting, because

883
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: he supports bricks as I do too, So we was

884
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: sort of like tacitly endorsing the Trump administration moves with

885
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: regard to India, which have just helped to coalesce bricks

886
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: into a more cohesive and aligned unit.

887
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: So congratulations, what a joke, Thank you, mister president. Okay,

888
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: let's get to the Democrats. Dave Weigel standing by joining

889
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: us now is Dave Weigel. He's a politics reporter for Semaphore,

890
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: but for our purposes he is with the DNC at

891
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: their current meeting where they are evaluating how to deal

892
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: with Trump Eiras. We wanted to check in with Dave.

893
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: Good to see you, man, Thanks for joining us.

894
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 4: It's good to be here. Thanks guys.

895
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: All right, so, Dave, you've put out a number of

896
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: videos and some analysis here from the DNC chair Ken

897
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: Martin about how Democrats are trying to quote meet the moment.

898
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: Let's take a list.

899
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 7: I'm sick and tired of this Democratic Party bringing a

900
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 7: pencil to a knife fight. We cannot be the only

901
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 7: party that plays by the rules anymore.

902
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: We've got to stand up and fight.

903
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 7: We're not going to have a hand tied behind our

904
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 7: back anymore. Let's grow a damn spight and get in

905
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 7: those fight Democrats.

906
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: Americans are hungry for leaders. They're hungry for.

907
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 7: Candidates who are on the side of working people. There's

908
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 7: hungry for leaders who give a damn about their circumstances,

909
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 7: and they're hungry for a government that gives people freedom,

910
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 7: not fascism. To every American who is hungry for that

911
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 7: kind of government. I invite you to join us, Democrats, Republicans, independents,

912
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 7: I invite you to join us together.

913
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: We will fight with every fiber of.

914
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 7: Our being against Trump in his power hungry.

915
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: Circus talking about fighting, Dave. But what is the mood

916
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: inside of the building there. You've got that rhetorically, but

917
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: you've got some reporting from on the ground.

918
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 4: That captured pretty well. It is a grim mood. It

919
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 4: is not as resolved to lose mood. It is not

920
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 4: a the party cannot come back. But that word fascism

921
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 4: that Martin used, every speaker used that, that was how

922
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 4: Keith Ellison was talking. There was and that was how

923
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 4: Tim Walls, the governor of Minnesota, give a speech there.

924
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 4: That was how he was talking.

925
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: Uh.

926
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 4: And there was a lot a lot of cheering for

927
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 4: California and the Jerrymander gambit that Gavin Newsom is running.

928
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 4: But the overall context of that is that the party

929
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 4: is going to lose the country, maybe for good, if

930
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 4: it does not do something. What is the something that

931
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 4: they need to do? That is a tougher question, is

932
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 4: not really the DNC is always a place for it,

933
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 4: but there's not an analysis of we've gone too far

934
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: in this direction. We need to abandon this, this idea.

935
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 4: For example, there was a really compelling meeting of the

936
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: LGBTQ caucus at the Party and Martin came by and said,

937
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 4: we're not going to give an inch on this. We're

938
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 4: not going to give an inch on trans issues. Do

939
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 4: not worry that when we say we're going to do

940
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 4: whatever it takes to win, we're going to abandon anybody.

941
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 4: So it's it's a little I wouldn't say I wouldn't

942
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 4: say confused. The mood here it is a confidence that

943
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 4: Democrats are right in the country will come around to

944
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 4: them eventually, and not really reckoning with was there anything

945
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: we've done so wrong that people have bandoned us? And

946
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 4: Frank the part of this is nobody here and I

947
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 4: don't think they will live in twenty twenty eight. Wants

948
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 4: to talk about Joe Biden or say there was a

949
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 4: mistake to follow him to the hill. Nobody's talking about Gaza.

950
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 4: It's not really a self examination. It is the party

951
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 4: needs to make it clear that we're serious about fighting

952
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 4: fascism and the other details are less and important. People

953
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 4: can come into car our coalition when they realize how big.

954
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 4: The stakes are well.

955
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: And it seems like we're not going to abandon anyone

956
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: except if you support Palestine, judging by the reception that

957
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: zoron Mom Donnie has received and also the candidate whose

958
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: name I'm blanking on for Minnesota, for Minneapolis mayor, which

959
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: is more relgi than given that that's the location of

960
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: the DNC meeting. And you know you've got Ken Martin

961
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: there talking about fighting. I know he is backing a

962
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: sort of watered down resolution with regard to Palestine. Do

963
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 2: you talk a little bit about how Gaza factors into

964
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: all all of this, because I'm not sure I've ever

965
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 2: seen an issue where the Democratic base and Democratic electeds

966
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: and elites are further apart.

967
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 4: No, you could pick a poll and if the question

968
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 4: is just should the United States stop spending sending money

969
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 4: and weapons to Israel until the end of tending the conflict?

970
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 4: Were to stop the conflict, overwhelmingly popular Democrats and you

971
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 4: pinpointed it, that's not something that Democrats are talking about

972
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 4: very openly here. Uh. They had a resolutional vote on

973
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 4: today that Martin supports that is basically calling for it

974
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 4: into the conflict, released the hostages, but not a policy

975
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 4: change on Gaza. There's another resolution from a smaller group

976
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 4: of DNC members. I've been pulled every member. But the

977
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 4: expectations that will not pass, and that is, to your point,

978
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 4: hallucinating what Democrats want, which is a recognition of a

979
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 4: Palestinian state that's not as popular but that's mostly popular

980
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 4: Democrats and ending and ending arms Israel until the total

981
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 4: war ends. That resolution will probably get defeated. I'll be

982
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 4: there and I'll see what happens. But the expectations that

983
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 4: is the party is still not going to change direction

984
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 4: on Gaza. And they're not saying that we're worried about donors.

985
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 4: We're worried about being called anti Semites. It's very complicated.

986
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 4: Part of it is frustration that there were protesters getting

987
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 4: up and making life difficult for Kamala Harris when she

988
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 4: was trying to win the election.

989
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: Again.

990
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 4: It all comes back to the Democrats self analysis that

991
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 4: they need to save the country from a dictatorship and

992
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 4: anything that's complicating for them is it needs to be

993
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 4: people need to get over it. Basically, I'm not trying

994
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 4: to explain every every single thought here in Democrats. There

995
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 4: is a diversity of opinion in those rooms, but you're

996
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 4: having people with different gossla opinions like Barbia League get

997
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 4: on stage and they're not talking about it. You can

998
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 4: imagine a different, different party, a different set of circumstances

999
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 4: and say, Okay, this seems to be a gaping vulnerability

1000
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 4: for our party and we can't defend anymore. Let's talk

1001
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 4: about it. They don't. They want to have one resolution

1002
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 4: that pushes that issue off the table and then hopefully

1003
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty six people aren't thinking about it, you know.

1004
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: I mean, you mentioned the age thing, and it reminds me,

1005
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: you know of the Democratic autopsy story that came out

1006
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 1: about how they want to ignore that and then all

1007
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: of the things that Kamala did during the It's like,

1008
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 1: so what are we what are you going to write

1009
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: an autopsy about? I mean, that's one of the things

1010
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: that seems so central to this fundamental question, Dave. And

1011
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: it also gets to democratic approval. We actually have a

1012
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: CNN segment where they've been diving more into the Democratic brand.

1013
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: I want to get your reaction to that segment in

1014
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: the context of what you see in the room. See

1015
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: two guys, let's go ahead and play it.

1016
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 8: Let's look at the key four swing states that in

1017
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 8: fact do keep tract of registration by party. Look, the

1018
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 8: Republican Party is in their best position at this point

1019
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 8: in the cycle since at least two thousand and five,

1020
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 8: and all four of these key battleground states. We go

1021
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 8: out to the southwest, Arizona, how about Nevada. Republicans haven't

1022
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 8: done this well since two thousand and five. Oh my goodness, grace,

1023
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 8: at this point of cycle, North Carolina. I couldn't find

1024
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 8: a point at which Republicans were doing better at this

1025
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 8: point in the cycle.

1026
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 4: It's at least this century.

1027
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 8: It probably goes way back in the last century, and

1028
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 8: Pennsylvania very similar. Republicans doing better at this point than

1029
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 8: at any point at any point this century, at least

1030
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 8: as far as I could find, as the Republican Party

1031
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 8: gains and party registration compared to this point. Back in

1032
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 8: twenty seventeen during the Trump first administration. In Arizona, you

1033
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 8: got a Republican gain of three points. Okay, how about Nevada.

1034
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 8: Up the hill we go, even though we're sticking in

1035
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 8: the southwest, a gain of six points. How about again

1036
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 8: we come to the east coast North Carolina, a gain

1037
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,439
Speaker 8: of eight points for the Republicans, and in the Keystone State,

1038
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 8: in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, again we're talking about a

1039
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 8: gain of eight points. My goodness, gracious for Republicans. They

1040
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 8: are converting old former Democrats to their side of the

1041
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 8: ledger as well as picking up new voters, registering new voters,

1042
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 8: and it absolutely paid off for them back in the

1043
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,240
Speaker 8: twenty twenty four election.

1044
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: What's the grappling in the building with that, Dave, This

1045
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: voter registration data just seems existential for them, it.

1046
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 4: Does, see, there's not a lot of grappling with that.

1047
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 4: Before I got here, there was a reception for members

1048
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 4: on I got here Monday morning. On Sunday, there was

1049
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 4: a reception that the AFL CEO had helped with and

1050
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 4: my friend Brittany Shepherd ABC News tried to ask but

1051
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 4: registration and was cut off. He just wanted to get

1052
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 4: answered the question by the AFL CEO. They didn't want

1053
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 4: the discussion to go into that. The couple things are happening.

1054
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 4: One is that older Democrats, and this is people who

1055
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 4: were Democrats at this point. They're very old from the

1056
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 4: New Deal Democrats from the nineteen sixties, older African American

1057
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 4: Democrats always reach to the party, they're simply dying. If

1058
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 4: you look at Northeast Ohio is a good example. Pared

1059
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 4: Brown runs in twenty eighteen and twenty twenty four, more

1060
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 4: people turn out to vote across the state in those elections,

1061
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 4: but he loses votes in Northeast Ohio. And you look

1062
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 4: at the data, that's just there are not many people

1063
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 4: moving in and Democrats had passed away younger voters. To

1064
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 4: the point we were just discussing, the party's brand is

1065
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 4: associated with a number of things that are toxic to them,

1066
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 4: including gaza and so that I have. I was talking

1067
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 4: to some of the younger Democratic Party chairs night, and

1068
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 4: even in places where they're gaining, when they when there's

1069
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 4: an election, they can turn people out, they can win

1070
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,959
Speaker 4: a special election. They're having that issue that people under

1071
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 4: thirty when they go to register, maybe they go to

1072
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 4: the DMV for the first time to do it, or

1073
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 4: they're on campus. Their approach the Democratic Party has a

1074
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 4: terrible brand. They want to be an independent. They don't

1075
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 4: want to be a mega Republican, but they want to

1076
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 4: They don't want to associate themselves with this party, so

1077
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 4: that the optimisty take for a Democrat. Is that is solvable.

1078
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 4: The less optimistic take is how you're not infronting that

1079
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,959
Speaker 4: issue and they don't. They liked one thing they'll also

1080
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 4: say a lot at this conference or meeting and elsewhere,

1081
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 4: is well, we can't wait for some savior to come

1082
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,439
Speaker 4: to and make the party a competitive again. We can't

1083
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 4: wait for another Obama because that did solve a lot

1084
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 4: of problem. Obama was so appealing to younger people that

1085
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 4: they that they fixed that for years. There isn't an alternative.

1086
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 4: It is that we are going to be the anti

1087
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 4: fascist party. We're going to be a fighting party of

1088
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 4: the resistance. And that is not very enticing to younger

1089
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 4: people who look they might they might be souring on

1090
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 4: Trump that they actually have in a lot of polls.

1091
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 4: But the offer of the Democrats is pretty lame, right Well.

1092
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: We also don't know who it's appealing to because they

1093
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 2: haven't really done it. So you know, I mean is

1094
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 2: you know, Newsom is starting to get in the mix

1095
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: and doing his memes and all of that stuff, and

1096
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 2: he's gaining credibility at least with the Democratic base and

1097
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: certainly gaining prominence in terms of the national conversation. But

1098
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, Hikeem Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer have

1099
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: been utterly pathetic in terms of their response, and at

1100
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: this point they're some of them most prominent leaders of

1101
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 2: the party. The other thing is, you know, I feel

1102
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 2: like a broken record continuing to go back to this,

1103
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: but you have this almost like manna from heaven in

1104
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 2: Zoron Mamdani, who comes out of nowhere genuinely excites people.

1105
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: You know, you had thousands of people turn out New

1106
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: York City for his freaking scavenger hunt over the weekend.

1107
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: Is very high approval rating. Look, I get it, New

1108
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: York City is different than the rest of the country.

1109
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: But with the very groups that DEMO have been failing

1110
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: and losing ground with young men, Latinos, working class, et cetera,

1111
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: Zoron is doing extraordinarily well. And rather than looking at

1112
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: that and saying, oh my god, okay, what is he doing?

1113
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 3: How can we support him?

1114
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,240
Speaker 2: How can we make him emblematic of the Democratic Party,

1115
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: They've done everything they can to trash him and bash

1116
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: him and like sort of low key back this scandal

1117
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: ridden wildly unpopular Andrew Cuomo, even though he dramatically lost

1118
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: the Democratic primary.

1119
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Jeffries and Schumer are not here. I think

1120
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 4: they probably would get a good reception from BNC members

1121
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 4: given who makes that up, but not much of a

1122
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 4: reckoning with that. It is more frustration that young people

1123
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 4: don't see the threat of Trump than and we've given

1124
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 4: them something inspiring that they should be celebrating. There was

1125
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 4: a mention sacer Mansion the autopsy, So there is an

1126
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 4: autypes that they're working on of the party, and it

1127
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 4: might have come out at this conference, at this meeting,

1128
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 4: it's going to be delayed to later in the year.

1129
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 4: The thing we all of us who cover this and

1130
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 4: talk to people who were talking to the d n C,

1131
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 4: and sometimes he's going to conclude that just the Democratic

1132
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 4: Party has this constellation of groups of consultants that are

1133
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 4: outside the party that are not helpful at all, and

1134
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 4: there is this desire for more of a concentration inside

1135
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 4: a coherent Democratic Party structure. But yeah, that's less entrepreneurial.

1136
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 4: That doesn't that suggests there might be a problem. For example,

1137
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 4: when DSA gets very organized when they support the cantleates

1138
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,959
Speaker 4: around Momdani and you've got New York posts and Fox

1139
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 4: News headlines about DSA's platform and Democrats having to answer

1140
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 4: for it. There really is this. I wouldn't say Trump envy,

1141
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 4: but Trump's command of the Republican Party answers every question

1142
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 4: voters what Republicans stand for, and some of them are contradictory,

1143
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 4: and some of them are things he promises and can't

1144
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 4: pull off. But there is a Republican Party brand built

1145
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 4: around Donald Trump. It is popular enough to win elections

1146
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 4: in most of the country. What is their alternative? They're

1147
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 4: very worried about entrepreneurial left wing politics coming up and

1148
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 4: making it harder to reach those voters they lost, and

1149
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 4: that's some of this is who did we lose? It

1150
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,479
Speaker 4: is unclear how many of those voters did we lose

1151
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 4: were young people who bolted over Gaza, how many are

1152
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 4: older people who think the party's to left wing? How

1153
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 4: much of this is about the backlash to protest because

1154
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,280
Speaker 4: that's an our theme that was in our discussion yesterday

1155
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 4: at the main meeting is how Democrats can talk about

1156
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 4: crime in the context of Trump moving the military into

1157
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 4: d C. It was a left wing Cronina vest reform

1158
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 4: group that had the presentation. It was a little I

1159
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 4: had one post about it that about there we should

1160
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 4: talk less much top of crime, more about strong and safety.

1161
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 4: It was a little there was a little more to us.

1162
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 4: The math part of it was this worry that, look,

1163
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 4: if crime goes down because of the military, crowded streets,

1164
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 4: that'd be kind of hard to scale to scale across

1165
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 4: the country. Maybe Americans wouldn't even want it. But we're

1166
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 4: holicus w get take credit for crime doing down, and

1167
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 4: we don't have a crime message. Everything comes back to

1168
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 4: we don't have a message, and why don't they have

1169
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 4: been message is not because consultants, again, they don't like them.

1170
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 4: It's because they what are the first principles of the party?

1171
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 4: The closest they've come to an argument is Martin likes

1172
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 4: to quote Paul Wellstone, the late sager from Minnesota and say,

1173
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 4: when we do better, we all do better, which doesn't

1174
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 4: answer a lot of those questions. Yes, when we're doing

1175
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 4: economically better, is somebody who does that include our tax

1176
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 4: dollars going to bombs to kill people? We don't know.

1177
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 4: There is a lot of dodging of the problems of

1178
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 4: the party. So you're asking good questions because this meeting

1179
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 4: is not okay, here's a ten point blame. We come

1180
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 4: up with this fix as this this is a meeting

1181
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 4: for a party that thinks we can win the mid terms.

1182
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 4: We can fix these problems, but TBD, we're not quite

1183
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 4: sure how to fix them.

1184
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's funny because there's a lot of

1185
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 2: thought about the potential existential crisis that the Republicans could

1186
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 2: face whenever Trump ultimately is on the picture because they

1187
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 2: are so centered around him. The Democrats will face their

1188
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 2: own existential crisis because they are also similar early just

1189
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: you know, centered around Trump and sort of polarizing and

1190
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 2: messaging against him. Rather than having those first principles. There's

1191
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: one more you know, existential threat here on the horizon

1192
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: for Democrats, on the near horizon for Democrats who can

1193
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: put see one up on the screen. So you know,

1194
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: it's the way the population trends are moving. With people

1195
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: moving out of New York in particular, and some of

1196
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: the other sort of quote unquote unquote blue Wall states

1197
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: and into states like Florida and Texas as well as

1198
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,479
Speaker 2: Utah and Idaho, you are going to have a very

1199
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: different likely in twenty thirty. You're going to have a

1200
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: very different electoral college, which means it's no longer possible

1201
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 2: for a Democratic presidential candidate to win with the you know,

1202
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: with the blue Wall states as it is now, So

1203
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: you know, what do you make of those potential shifts

1204
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 2: and what it means for Democrats. I read through this

1205
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: whole article and the strategists were like, maybe we can

1206
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 2: win Arkansas.

1207
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 3: Like really, that's okay, good luck with that.

1208
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: That seems like it's a you know, pretty far reach,

1209
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: and I don't know, what do you think of this

1210
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 2: dynamic for Democrats and how dire is that situation.

1211
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 4: They're not panicked about that because the party has become

1212
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 4: more competitive in Arizona, North North Carolina, and Georgia and

1213
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 4: the Biden map. I mean, if you won the Biden

1214
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 4: states again in twenty thirty two with these census projections,

1215
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 4: yes you would win the presidency. There's more worry about

1216
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 4: how you are competitive and the Senat ever again because

1217
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 4: that map, if you lose every Senate seat outside those states,

1218
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 4: you can't get the Senate. So that's not loomed as

1219
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 4: much of a threat as even the voter registration piece

1220
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 4: we were talking about. The party can't imagine being competitive

1221
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,959
Speaker 4: in those places. I talked to the North Carolina chair

1222
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 4: yesterday and her focus is being competitive, having good twins.

1223
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 4: Where we ate slipping the state Supreme Court, it's doable.

1224
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,959
Speaker 4: That's one of the states where where people are still

1225
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 4: moving in into growing cities and suburbs, and they're looking

1226
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 4: voters balanced out a little bit, so they're not I

1227
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 4: would say another thing Democrats learned from the Obama experiences.

1228
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 4: They looked at a map and looked at demography and thought, okay, well,

1229
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 4: this is our destiny. We can hold and build this

1230
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 4: maybe for forty years, and they couldn't. They dealt with

1231
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 4: a Trump challenge to the party that blew up their

1232
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 4: demographic plans, and part of that was non white voters

1233
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 4: moving towards Trump, which they thought was impossible. And so

1234
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 4: that's not that this is more I guess more question

1235
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 4: for a quarter to answer every years. I've final answered

1236
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 4: this this week is Okay, what changes in America that

1237
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 4: they get more white voters, or they reverse their define

1238
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 4: with Latino voters, or they get more black voters. They

1239
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 4: do not know yet, but they stop thinking that there

1240
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 4: is a inexorable chart that moves or down in these

1241
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 4: states because the idea of an Ohio that was totally

1242
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 4: uncompetitive for them after Barack Obama won it twice, even

1243
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 4: after the quote unquote were on coal. They had an

1244
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 4: idea that, okay, the rogans of Max stat with white

1245
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 4: voters and as long as we get non white voters,

1246
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 4: we can win. Totally true. They held onto non white

1247
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 4: voters Kamala Harris, I'd say by Obama levels, Kamala would

1248
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 4: win the election. So what do they do? And the

1249
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 4: answer that's the thing. The answers are not very compelling.

1250
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 4: The answers are we need to fight more, we need

1251
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 4: to talk to more people. It's not we need to

1252
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 4: compromise on this. It's not we need to abandon this position.

1253
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 4: You're seeing more experimentation by candidates and the Platner in Maine,

1254
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 4: Firm May and Dan Osbourne in Nebraska. What they have

1255
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 4: in common is that they are not identity politics. It

1256
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 4: takes candidates. They're not expecting some sort of shift of

1257
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 4: the electorate that just gets more democratic. They're saying, look,

1258
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 4: a lot of people hate us and they hate corporate power,

1259
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 4: and we need to be credible on that. And credibility

1260
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 4: means not being one of these democrats who is part

1261
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 4: of the problem, not saying because that's the dialectic. It's

1262
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 4: not so much it's Trump and anti Trump, but it's

1263
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 4: also a party of Trump and a party of defending

1264
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 4: the pre Trump professional professional managerial classes order from defending.

1265
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 4: I live in a neighborhood where the people have we

1266
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 4: love hard feder our workers, science, and I'm not impugning that.

1267
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 4: I'm saying that the democratic version of the of the

1268
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 4: country vision of the country is what we had a

1269
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 4: couple of years ago, with some tweaks. So what is

1270
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 4: an alternative that's more popular in these states that have

1271
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 4: gone far to the right, even when the economy is

1272
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 4: pretty good. Look at unemployment North Dakota. It's not been terrible.

1273
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 4: People are not saying we want we have a party

1274
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 4: to give us more jobs. What is it the party

1275
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 4: needs to change? That's what I think at a party media.

1276
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 4: I'm not talking myself out of being here. But the

1277
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 4: change is going to come from this Aron i'dnni's and

1278
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 4: from the Dan Osborne's and from the candidates who say,

1279
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 4: I have nothing to do with these guys. I do

1280
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 4: not want to support the system that I grew up in.

1281
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 4: I'm going to blow it up and do something different.

1282
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 4: So important and that might be independence. That might be

1283
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 4: some progressive independence who are not Democrats, and the Democratic

1284
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 4: Party will make peace with that as it's done with

1285
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders has done with independence.

1286
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I do want you to take last thing here

1287
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: on Gavin Newsome. Let's go and put five up here

1288
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: on the screen. Newsom has found himself center online a

1289
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: lot of here talking about the Patriot Shop he sold

1290
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: some one hundred thousand dollars in like Maga Newsom style merch.

1291
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: What is the feeling in the Democratic meeting around news

1292
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: is there is there? Are they? Are they enjoying the

1293
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: tweets like the online energy? Does it fit and square

1294
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: with some of the questions you're asking. I'm just curious

1295
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: how the Democratic Party elite think about this?

1296
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 4: Oh? They love it? Uh Now there is a appreciation

1297
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 4: that Newsom is trying something different and that he also

1298
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 4: is not bound up in that we Democrats are better

1299
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,439
Speaker 4: than this. We we don't post like that, we don't

1300
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 4: make these memes. We uh there. I'm probably more sympathetic

1301
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 4: to the anti AI people who don't like making means

1302
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 4: of politicians with buddies. They don't have writing lines and stuff. Whatever,

1303
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 4: if they exist and people are organically making about Gavin Newsom.

1304
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 4: That's great, and that's that gets back to the Democrats

1305
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 4: are just kind of waiting for some energy to come

1306
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 4: from elsewhere organically that they didn't have anything to do with.

1307
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 4: And see why that worked. So a lot of appreciation

1308
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 4: and knew some the biggest applause lines. And there's one

1309
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 4: general meeting wherever it was in the room, so not

1310
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 4: everything's getting applausea meter. But they were for Newsom in California,

1311
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 4: and they were for defending trans rights and LGBT rights,

1312
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 4: and they were for opposing military occupation in DC. But

1313
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 4: the Newsome stuff especially, and that is what people might

1314
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 4: laugh at the way Martin phrases this, but that is

1315
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 4: the sense he So one of the other themes of

1316
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 4: the conference is, you know, this is a couple months

1317
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 4: after the assassination Melissa Hortman, the former former speaker of

1318
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 4: the Minnesota House, and the way that Martin pays tribute

1319
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 4: to her is that she when she won, they want

1320
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 4: to trifecta and she said, quote, let's fucking go. And

1321
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 4: they passed everything Progresses wanted to do, even some with

1322
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 4: one Voote margin, even though Republicans didn't want to pass.

1323
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 2: Some of it.

1324
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 4: That's the attitude is we need to learn from these

1325
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 4: Republicans to just be audacious people do what we want

1326
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 4: to do, and that includes pissing people off. And Democrats

1327
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 4: are not maybe attitudinally that good at pissing people off

1328
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 4: because of the eight They just don't think like magie Republicans.

1329
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 4: They don't like to be told that something was offensive.

1330
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 4: But when they see what people are doing around Newsome,

1331
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 4: they say, well, all right, that doesn't come naturally to

1332
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 4: all of us. But he is fighting. People are excited.

1333
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 4: I think if he wins into the California Supreme Court

1334
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 4: and gets to have this measure on the ballot, it's

1335
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 4: going to help not forget his presential prospects, but it

1336
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 4: will help them even more in saying, we don't need

1337
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 4: to worry about whether this idea we have is defensible

1338
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 4: to Republicans. We just need to do it, roll over

1339
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 4: them and be fighters, and that's the final thing we'll

1340
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 4: say about it. Another theme that they're saying for every

1341
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 4: Democrat in every room is that we can't look weak.

1342
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 4: That's where the defense of LGBT rights and immigrants comes

1343
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 4: from is, look, yes, we know the polling might be

1344
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 4: bad from time to time. But when people see Democrats

1345
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 4: wring their hands and look weak and appeal to some

1346
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 4: other authority, they don't want to vote for us. What

1347
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 4: does that mean? What does that mean for Democratic Party?

1348
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: Again?

1349
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 4: That sounds more like this Aoran description. Somethody who's who's

1350
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 4: not afraid to say things that will piss off the

1351
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 4: media that covers him. They can see that it works

1352
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 4: for people. It's it's not coming naturally to the party

1353
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 4: of Barack Obama, Michelle Obama and Joe Biden, who whose

1354
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 4: whole message, you know, for his campaign and his presidency

1355
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 4: was getting back to normal. They're not saying sorry too.

1356
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 4: Biden were writing about history erasing you from the photo.

1357
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 4: But they're quietly saying that's never going to work again.

1358
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 4: We can't be the party. We can't be the party

1359
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 4: that appeals to tradition and appeals to norms and things.

1360
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 4: It's gross if you put up AI nem photos.

1361
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 8: Wow.

1362
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 2: A decade later, a decade too late. Finally you're learning

1363
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 2: that I mean. And to your point, it's one thing

1364
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 2: to say it and intellectually understand it. You're talking about

1365
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 2: a group of people who were selected for very different

1366
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 2: qualities who were got to their positions, you know, whether

1367
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 2: it was through support from a broad donor base or whatever,

1368
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 2: or the leadership was comfortable with them because they don't

1369
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 2: they know how to phrase things to not piss anyone off.

1370
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 2: A lot of the new MAGA types, you know, come

1371
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 2: to problem because they're able to stoke controversy online and

1372
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 2: you know, be that said, like that influencer who's constantly

1373
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: in a firestorm. So it's going to be a difficult

1374
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 2: transition for them. I think, Dave always appreciate your reporting.

1375
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

1376
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: Appreciate it.

1377
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 4: Man, No, thanks, guys, great questions. I appreciate it.